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The What Podcast Dogs in a Pile Talk Bonnaroo 2025 Debut, Jam Band Roots, and Songwriting with Tom Marshall Season 8, Episode 15 Published April 16, 2025 https://thewhatpodcast.com/episode/dogs-in-a-pile-talk-bonnaroo-2025-debut-jam-band-roots-and-songwriting-with-tom-marshall Luckily the band was not involved with this. So we are still perfect little boys that don't do anything bad. You mean you weren't arrested? We, we, we, we, we weren't, we weren't there as actually the crew, we, the crew was driving across the country and the band had some other obligations. So we had to fly like the day before the gig. Um, Oh, so the rumor is not exactly true because they didn't say that, but I'm glad to get it cleared up. It's a little fluffed up. I'm sure. Uh, but remember the band, we are perfect. So, and we don't do anything, anything bad. So, no, wouldn't have been us anyway. But your crew has a bunch of marijuana in the man. Had a bunch of pod. Yeah. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the What Podcast. I'm Barry. That's Brian. We've got a really cool show for you. I'm very excited. We have some special guests, dogs in a pile. Um, we've got some news. We've got some news about us at Bonnaroo that I'm very excited about. I'll share with you in just a minute. First of all, I need to explain why Russ is not here. Russ is, it felt like something was missing somebody. Where are you at, man? We, he is in his, he is in his happy place. He is in the bus with a whole bunch of other VW enthusiasts at bugga Palouse, a fundraiser here in Chattanooga for the Ronald McDonald house that Russ is very much involved with the planning of, but he's also been over there camping in his bus for the last two nights. So yeah, it's a, um, it's, it's one of the bigger, uh, Volkswagen meets in the Southeast, maybe not bigger as far as how many people show up or how many entries there are, but as far as recognition and, um, and, and tradition, most anybody who's in that, in the, in the car club and the Volkswagen ethos, this is a stop because it's a great camping spot and, um, especially if you get good weather and in Chattanooga this, in Chattanooga this weekend, holy Jesus, this is what we live for in life as the kind of weather we're getting. So, um, he'll have plenty of pictures to show from some of their, um, uh, you know, they do contest first in place, second best ridiculous car, best custom car, best original there's her be her be the beetle, if you know the reference, there'll be plenty of those. The love bug. And it's, uh, it's so much fun. And he does, he's a high up on that. He's on the board. He does tech. Uh, he's not just an, uh, an attendee. So he, and they raise a lot of money for Ronald McDonald house, which is awesome. They do. I would say we're in our 25th year of this thing. Um, it could be longer than that. Been going for awhile. So it's a, it's another one of the, especially around here, but I'm sure where you live, you have a lot of cool April events going on too. It's one of the, uh, circled on the calendar for many around here, um, April events, so we'll Russell be back with us next week and he was bummed on our, on our text and you know, uh, email threads. They like, damn it. Won't be able to make it for the dogs in a pile conversation today because we were really excited about that. Again, we'll get to that in a second. Yeah. And thank you, Brian, for setting that one up. Cause that was a good pull. Uh, and thanks to their management who were very, very quick to make it made it work on a Sunday. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't even ask us to change it. Wow. We won't go there, but they didn't change the change. The time did not change. They, they, our original schedule time worked out beautifully. So it's great, but we got something cool coming up that I'll let you start. Mary. Yeah. We, uh, C three reached out our, our buddy, Brad Parker, Mr. everywhere all the time, social Mr. not festival, but, uh, he C three had an idea. They want to do some thing. They want to partner with some podcasts, us included. Uh, I don't, I don't know that I'm going to mention the others cause it may or may not happen. So I don't want to go there. There's still, it's still in the very beginning stages, but not, not in a maybe stage like this is going to happen and we're, I'll just speak for myself, really excited about this aspect of Bonnaroo, um, that we've never been able to do before and it's going to be really fun. Absolutely. We're, we're working with them to figure out how to do a live, uh, event, uh, in center room that will be recorded and will become a podcast. And so, and it'll be through the primarily just, uh, the planet room planet room and the charitable, uh, things that they do. So we'll coordinate with them to give them some love and some attention, but, uh, they wanted to also give us some love and attention. So it's very cool synergy. Really cool. And, and we, and I don't want to try to make this sound like huge announcement, stay tuned guys. Like, I, I don't know. It, it just doesn't matter. Yeah. It's going to be neat. I don't care if it's just you and me and Russ, I'm excited. I'm going to be there. It's cool. It's just another thing of the countless never ending list of things curated and programmed by this festival from every square inch of this, of this farm and how it never stops growing and trying new things. It might, whatever we do might be the least cared about thing of the weekend. That's fine too. It's just there. They always are trying new things. And then this year they asked us what we thought. And I, and I, and the pre-show meeting, I just said real quick, as long as I don't have to do anything overly strenuous other than like carry some bags and show up. I don't need any more details. I'm in. Yeah. So another, another exciting thing for us. And, and you know, the, the, the list of exciting things is never ending for every at Bonnaroo attendee. So thanks to them and we look forward to it. We will have some more conversations this week and next, and we'll figure out exactly what we're going to do, but we're very excited about it. So, all right. So there's that. And so April kind of feels like the start of festival season. Coachella is going on. There's some news out of, out of that that you were telling me about. And I've, I've watched a little bit, just a little bit on the YouTube of some of their coverage, just to see what it looked like. I'm not really one to sit around and watch a live concert on television, but I wanted to see how it was done. It was done pretty well, but they had some issues. Sound I know. Well that and something you would not think of in this day and age of an event that has been around for a while that they would have a problem with, but apparently they did with traffic, right? They're getting people in and out. So, yeah. I don't know the logistics, the terrain, the landscape. I don't even remember where Coachella is held. It's in one of the valleys outside of a city, right? I don't even remember. Southern New York. Pretty, pretty South, but all of a sudden something that Bonnaroo kind of created, or at least we're first known for this, would amazingly hard to comprehend times, waits to get into, to just park your car, which has been all but eliminated. I mean, if you sit for two or three hours, then you're having a bad day and you probably had the worst day of anybody else. Maybe you're just going to be in the car for a while. Probably had the worst day of anybody else. Maybe five hours. Somebody's got that bad story, but it used to be 12 was everybody's story. And now this year Coachella, I don't know how many percentage camp there's multiple reports to the fact that festive owl retweeted and, and, and, uh, well, we'll call it reported on, you know, put it out there as official information that it was widespread that there was 12 hour waits to get into Coachella what we talked about this a little earlier about Barry, we didn't look it up and only their way we could know Coachella started in what 99, 2000 to it was before Bonnaroo, but not much before 27 years later. Now you're having 12 hour waits to get in. What in the world happened? Um, it feels like, because I didn't see the outrage continuing that maybe that was something that was just total unforeseen issue. We don't know the details. The likelihood of that is, is very true probably. And maybe they fixed it very quickly. Wow. 93, 93 traces back to 93, 93. Wow. Pearl jam. So there you go. Um, so, uh, yeah, just, just, I mean, I don't want to call it funny, but it's kind of funny. It does seem a little unusual that that would be an issue, but, uh, kind of funny. So that's this weekend and you've got four 20, uh, next weekend. Yeah. I hope you guys, uh, are a little bit interested in seeing what it looks like. If you're a festival goer of the South, my guess is you probably will be because four 20 music, uh, sweet water, the brewery four 20, um, that speaking of jam bands who were about to speak to a dogs in a pile, that's all they do for the longest time and they still pretty much do it, but they've moved. The location a couple of times and it's been, there's been a lot of concern in whether they'd even be able to keep this festival alive. And the biggest part not to go too far into the weeds on this was the guns and parks bill in Georgia. If you remember that Barry from five years ago, four years ago, where all of a sudden there was some restrictions taken off on whether guns are allowed in, in these, in these public parks. Uh, while I agree with every single thing that the festival organizers probably feel about that, I don't know that I would have gone to the links that they did. They pulled the plug on where they were going. Like Piedmont park pulled the plug on set and Centennial park and central park. If you don't know Atlanta, I'm sorry, but I'll just Centennial and Piedmont are where music Midtown and now shaky knees and shaky knees was in, uh, uh, central for a little while. Um, these are parks that have been used for major major festivals. Their infrastructure is already there and they pulled from any of, to go to any of these places. Well, it's like, well, what in the hell are you going to do? You can't have a big festival if you're not going to go to a big festival site that, that is conducive for holding this. Well, they have found Pullman. Uh, is it Pullman farms? I'm sorry. I've been looking back and around, uh, Pullman yards, Pullman yards. And I don't know anything about Pullman yards and my, uh, a good friend of mine who does a lot of marketing for he's, he's done some stuff for the show that none of y'all even know before us. I'm just some little stuff from in, in Atlanta is in, uh, design work, uh, art gallery kind of stuff. And he's going with me and he's got a connection to it too. And they're welcoming us in and basically we're going to come in to get a, a good look at the whole new venue and I'll try to get some good audio and not audio for the show here, but visuals, what stages look like the drive by truckers. That's the main reason I'm there for the day. And, um, so yeah, next week, a little show and tell on that. And I hope that'll interest some of you and we'll see how it goes. But, um, yeah. And I know, uh, we've got, we're trying to plan a couple more shows. I know you're trying to hook up with some folks to talk about the, uh, 5k run crazy Rue run the crazy Rue run. Yeah. So intrigued. I can almost swear. I remember you 10, 12, whatever years ago, maybe not that long ago at camp nut butter saying guys, man, they're having a road race. That's the stupidest fricking thing I've ever heard. I always hope when that's what you were about to say, and now you're going to do it. There's no chance that I didn't say anything other than these. I don't want to say I call them losers. Surely I didn't call them losers. But these insane weirdos need to be probably. So like, I don't know. Told to go back to bed. Here's what, yeah. Here's what's wrong with that idea. When we first heard about it, it's in the morning. You've been up all night. Yeah. The farm is a dust bowl. Yeah. So you're going to get up and do that and you're going to go run. And it's Saturday. So you're, there's no good reason to do this. You're in your third day. No, there's not, but you're going to do it. There's not. And, um, yeah, I, I, I won't go into it much now because when we do set up to talk to the people, we'll, I'll go into the more details of it. If you know me well, which most of you listening and watching this don't know me well, but you can take some guesses. If you know me well, you think this is like, I'm pulling a joke. You're waiting for me to like say, I showed up to like pop all your balloons and then run away. Like, no, I mean, I know I'm being silly as hell here, but, um, it's, it's, it's a change and I'm excited as I can be. So we'll, we'll stop there. We'll pick more up. We'll pick more up on it down the road. All right. I think that's the news that we had, right? Um, yeah. Light news on Bonnaroo. We're looking for the tickets to sell out probably anytime based on the way that they, uh, that they've been using their social media. And we got to think that we're looking at a schedule drop. Yeah. Any moment. Like it seems like it's a Tuesday thing. Is it going to be, was it yesterday? Like, Hey, we're doing a show on Wednesday. I mean, you know, as you guys likely know, we don't do, we do these a couple of days out, was it yesterday? Will it be next Tuesday? It's going to be here any minute and I can't wait. Yep. So special, as I said, special show today. I'm very excited. Uh, Brian, you started doing not deep, deep dive yet, but you started putting together a playlist and dogs in a pile jumped to the top for you. Um, bring me back to my jam roots. I love it. Absolutely. I started listening, uh, this week as well. I love it. And was so excited to find out that, uh, you had managed to get Brian and Jeremy. Yeah. And thanks to them for everybody too. We were able to put it together on the tour bus in between, uh, Wisconsin and whatever the hell they're going to next. So I look forward to this. And this will be their first time on the farm, which is amazing. Uh, especially cause I, I think I said it during the interview. I think they are just about as perfect a band for Bonnaroo that I can think of. And so, uh, great interview with them and I can't wait to see them, uh, here in Chattanooga this week, but more importantly on the farm in Manchester. So here we go with dogs in a pile. Jeremy and Brian, dogs in a pile. What a thrill. What a treat for us. Hey guys, how's it going? You guys are in Madison, Wisconsin. Currently you will be here in Chattanooga, uh, Wednesday night, tonight for people who are, when they're listening to this show. Um, but you're going to be on the farm in Manchester in June. And I think I can speak for Brian. You guys are probably our, uh, our find of the, of the schedule. I love, I love what I'm hearing from you guys. Um, can't wait to see you. Awesome. Thank you. Right, Brian. I'm not overstating that. No, so far. I mean, we've just started our, um, our, our more in earnest, uh, dive into stuff we don't know and, uh, you guys popped up quickly on my radar and, uh, it's, it's been, it's been a nice find. Um, I gotta start though, real quick. The, uh, the, the name of the band. I didn't get this immediately. And then a friend of mine was like, well, you know what that, and I don't know what it is exactly, we're going to go there. That's where I'm headed. You know, you know, that's a Grateful Dead lyric, right? I'm like, yeah, I'm, I'm a dead fan, right? Oh yeah. You're a big dead fan, right? He didn't catch onto that one. I was like, dogs in a pile. Dogs in a pile. Oh yeah. Nothing left to do with smile, smile, smile. Yeah. Yeah. He's gone. Like one of my favorite songs is a story as simple as the, you like that lyric or is it have nothing to do with the Grateful Dead whatsoever? Uh, no, that's, that's highly accurate. In fact, when we, uh, when we first started playing together, the only thing that we, uh, we all had in our back pocket was, uh, those Grateful Dead songs. So we were, we were just really just a cover band doing bars and stuff around, around the Jersey shore. Um, so that, yeah, that's really it. And that would have been what, what, what era was that first started to come together where you were playing together, hitting a bunch of covers, jamming hard. Wait, what, what, what years were that? That was a 2018. All right. So you'd, I mean, it wasn't that long ago. I mean, now it kind of was, but yeah, it feels like ages ago, you know, COVID adds 10, well, COVID added about 50 years to everybody's life. The lost years. I'm glad to hear you say the cover band thing. Cause I want to come back to that later. Cause you guys, as Brian and I were talking before the show, you do a lot of covers, but you're not like any cover band that I'm familiar with, with the covers that you choose. So I want to come back to that in a little bit, cause there's a whole website of all the covers that you've done. Right. Um, but anyway, this will be your first time at, at Bonnaroo. Correct. Yeah. I always love to ask, we always like to ask, what are you, cause this show, we've been doing it since 2018 and it's primarily about Bonnaroo. It's the reason we do it. Um, what do you know about Bonnaroo? What is your perception? What do you, what do you think it's going to be like? I hope you know, it's going to be hot. We can already go ahead and tell you that. Hot as hell. That's what we're prepared for. Intense, you know, a lot, lots of people, tons of production, definitely, you know, a festival on a scale that we're not super used to for sure. Well, I was going to ask you what kind of festival, um, circuits have you guys been able to be on over the last, you know, I don't say post COVID, have you been able to hit a lot of the festivals, uh, small, big or otherwise, or more standalone shows or is it a mix of all that? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've definitely done all sorts of junk. Um, a good amount of festivals, uh, the, the peach fest, which is likely now defunct, um, that was a big one for us. Uh, we did summer camp. That's, that's a large festival. And that was like a very exciting, the first time we rolled through there. Um, yeah, it's just definitely, you know, or relatively familiar with how festivals work, but, uh, we do realize that boundary was like, kind of like, uh, just on a slightly larger scale than anything we've really been involved with. It's a rite of passage for many people from attendees to performers, to podcast hosts, uh, to a, to a lot of different people. Um, do you know where you'd be there for a while? Are you going to roll in, do your show and leave, or you plan on staying for a while? Cause we didn't have like a day to hang for an extra day or something like that. Right? I think we have a day. Yeah. Um, yeah, definitely going to try to see some music, do some exploring. Um, but you guys have not, not as any member of the band wandered into Manchester in June before. Just as, as a, as an attendee or anything. So this is a brand new experience all the way around. Brand new. Yeah. We've only been to Nashville and Chattanooga in Tennessee. Haven't done much too much exploring. Well, you've been to the best two cities in Tennessee. Those are the best. That's right. The other one you can Knoxville Memphis. If you get a gig that's paying, take it, but then get out of those cities as quick as you can. Check out great slam. I will. Yeah. Get drive by Graceland if you need to, but then get out of here. Maybe, maybe Beale street for some, you know, cue, you know, get out. I will say your, uh, your sound and everything is perfect for Bonnaroo. So you should fit right in. Um, I've been listening all morning. It's I'm really excited to see you when you guys started, what was, uh, what was the intent? I mean, you said you were doing covers, but also looking back at, at, uh, you know, just doing some research. You guys are several of you Berkeley. Uh, I mean, you're so, there's no shortage of, of classically trained talent in this band. Correct. Is that fair? Also, I couldn't help notice. I mean, it's, it's on your own bio. So you guys put it there, but a lot of your influences, I mean, from Zappa who, you know, you can see back over my shoulder here, uh, the coal train to, uh, miles. I mean, it's pretty eclectic. Uh, so when you got together, what was the, how did it go? Who said, here's what I want us to be. You know, here's what I envisioned for this band. Yeah, that's an interesting one. Cause we do, and oftentimes in a lot of ways we, uh, we kind of pull each other in opposite directions, but that all that like kind of pulling ends up guiding us into one, one sort of mode. Um, so it works out luckily that all of our, you know, individual influences are so eclectic, um, because then we get to pull from all of these, uh, these great traditions and, uh, and kind of fall into that stuff as we please or as, as we need to. Um, so I wouldn't say that there's, you know, any one person pulling these string that makes us all go, but it's these five strings that are attached, all pulling wildly that gets us, you know, gives us a, our push. Uh, are they easy conversations or, or does somebody have to come in and fight for a song or a sound or a direction? Say in general conversations are easy, but it's not without like, uh, you know, okay, well let's look at this from another perspective and, and work on it. You know, it's, it's never like, uh, you know, this is, you know, this is just we can't do it this way, but it's, it's, it's, we'll go back and forth to find the best way to do it. You know, Jeremy, Brian, or both take this, uh, very simple question. Do you consider yourself a jam band? Is that still, is that still a term that is used, you know, this long after the jam ban, um, really the whole ethos exploded over different generations, different culturally in different eras. Do you consider yourself a jam band? We were kind of talking about this the other day. Um, I feel like the, the term jam jam ban is pretty broad. There are a lot of things that fall under that umbrella. Um, yeah, I don't know. Like we, I, I don't, nobody has ever presented me a good definition for the word. And, you know, I love, I love good, heady words. So like, if something can give me a good definition, let's go for it. But until I do hear a good one, like I struggle to identify with the term personally, um, and now that's not to say that like, sure, like I, I, I can see that we fully exist within this jam band scene, you know, um, but like there, there's so much more depth to, to music than, than that. Uh, so I personally struggle to identify with that. And like, like, you know, you were saying Barry, like Frank Zappa, you know, like what is that? Just getting ready to say he would be a jam band by that. You know, sure. Like it would, that the circuit maybe could be a good home for him because like how eclectic his stuff is and how accepting the jam band community is to styles and, and risks, um, Well, yeah, they just brought in Billy Strings with open arms, right? Like the jam band scene will, will embrace anybody if it's, if it's good and fun. Yeah. Yeah. So that's like that we're just interested in making good music as, as best as we can, you know, and, and it is truly all over the place. Like it'll be, you know, heavy metal grooves one second, then it'll be a pop tune the next, you know? Well, yeah, that's part of the ethos just as much as any, as many other factors. Well, I just started looking at the list cause you, you, and are you guys familiar with the, have you seen this set list? Um, is that, uh, of all it's artists covered by dogs in a pile. Are you familiar with that? He says that our go set our website, the go set website. I, yeah, I get, I think it just set setlist.fm, but it lists all of the different songs or bands that you've covered. And I just wanted to say the first four. Yeah. It's setlist.com. So they, they, they put their own, they, they put it together there. They've, they've broken it down. You've done, uh, 324 grateful dad songs, 114 Stevie wonder. Number four is 53 fish songs, but number three is the one I wanted to mention. Vince girl, Aldi trio. That's awesome. Yeah. That's Barry's account right there. I love the fact that you're doing Linus and Lucy. So going back to the cover thing, how did, who, who picks, who comes in and says, I think it'd be cool if we did, uh, this or. I remember the day you walked in with Linus and Lucy. I wasn't even in the band yet, but, um, I was coming to see them play at a, at a, uh, my house, right? Yeah. It's his house and, and Alston, um, at school and he walked in one day. Uh, and was like, we should just do this cover. We should play Linus and Lucy. Here's how we'll do it. We'll play the head. We'll do this part and we'll get out and then we'll jam. And, uh, sometimes that's just the way it goes. Someone feels inspired, comes up with a cool idea. And if everyone's into it all at the same time, then, um, we get to work. We practice it real quick or just talk about it. Um, yeah. And then play it. Yep. But what's the, and I'm sorry to obsess about this, but I, I, I think it's just fascinating. Is it, is it the song? Is it the fact that it would be cool and nobody would expect it? Or does it maybe fit into a theme of a set list for the night potentially? These are all valid questions and I would say they're all right at one point. Another it's all entirely dependent. Like sometimes it's just like cool tune. We'll do it. We don't have whatever. Sometimes it's we're in this city or this state, like this is where this artist is from or things like that. And sometimes, yeah, it's, it's kind of more mechanical than it is, like an artistic choice in a way, but, but, uh, you know, the, the art comes from some, uh, you know, certain limitations and stuff like that. Yeah. The growly, I mean, I just love, it's such a cool song, but I mean, you also do some miles and some coal train, which is not easy to do. So, I mean, you guys, you take big swings too, correct? Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, yeah, I mean, very much, uh, very much in the Zappa vein. We like to challenge ourselves and challenge the crowd. Um, cause that that's when things are most satisfying, you know, when you, when you learn something or, or feel something new. Yeah. Well, whether, whether you consider yourself a jam band or not, you've got a lot of the ingredients that go into this scene and that's what's drawing me in. I'm a, I'm a big, I'm a former big jam band head guy. I still love it. Don't follow it around and do the things that I used to do once upon a time, but I get the ethos and I love it. And part of the ethos was always that the, you know, the recorded music doesn't do it justice. You got to catch the live show. Didn't always subscribe to that theory because I know a lot of people in music, uh, recording. I, I don't know it myself, but I've been around it and I've always, I marvel at wonderful recordings in studios. I really enjoy that. And I'm thinking, if you can't do that, then why do I have trust that you can do all these other things? And, and you know, the Grateful Dead, sometimes one of the worst live shows you're going to see that week. Cause it just over the course of 60 years, sometimes that happens. But when I started catching some of your, your, your stuff online, uh, the more professionally shot Baltimore 12 seven, by the way, from a couple of years ago. Guys, that was, that was tight, strong. I mean, flowed well, good cover, good song selection. How, how do you do song selections from night to night? Is that done an hour before the show? Is that done? Days in advance with some ideas of where you're going based on what city you're in is how much elaboration goes into that? Or is it as quickly? Let's go. Yeah, it depends on the night. So a lot of nights, so it is like an hour before kind of things scramble, but we're trying to be better about it now. Brian has kind of taken up the lead on it, getting things done sooner. So you have a bit more time to live within the set list. Yeah. Yeah. Usually I send it a template pre sound check of, uh, you know, a basic framework for how we could go about the set list. I don't know if it sometimes, uh, when we're on stage playing a certain, uh, set. I'll be thinking about, you know, as soon as we get off stage, I'll be thinking about songs for the next night. Like things that we didn't really get to tonight, certain vibes or certain styles that we could get to tomorrow or just certain songs that we haven't played in a little while, there are so many different ways to think about it, how it can match up with the city or, you know, certain fans that are going to be there. Um, yeah, but, uh, yeah, we usually confirm it together. And is it a hard set? Can you change, can you change it in mid set? They usually change, um, depending on the limitations of time, um, or just natural improvisation, something just gets cut. It's like, maybe we should, you know, sometimes you don't even have to think about it, you'll just skip over a song or we'll start jamming our way into this other song that's like, Oh, we're playing this song now. Yeah. Works better on accident. Serendipitous almost. Well, there's two, two of my favorite bands are widespread panic and Pearl Jam and the way they put their set the list together are fascinating and completely on different planets of how they do it. And, um, there was an earth earth will swallow you was the name of, I believe the DVD from, uh, or the, the, the doc from widespread panic about 20 years ago. And they had the guy that color coded like the entire song catalog and like these are the songs. And after every three days, that seemed to be the formula of every third day is when things, things start to flip. Do you have any formula as to, I mean, I know most bands in your genre are not going to play back to back stuff, but is there something, well, we play that two nights ago, can't do it tonight. You know, we're going to, we're going to do that next week in Denver. Can't do that in Raleigh. I mean, do you, do you even get that specific as far as the songs or is it more about how you feel in the moment or that day? It's yeah, well, we, yeah, we do. I would say we get pretty specific and like, cause it's really more of a feeling thing, like when, when you, you know, some of these songs we've been playing now for like four plus years, right? So like, if we just played one of them two nights ago, it may still feel a little fresh and maybe we don't want to play it tonight, you know, and does that matter based on how you've released music? Like I've, I've worn out your latest, the latest studio recording, uh, bloom, right? Am I correct on the name there? Yeah. And that's what year old year and a half old, maybe about two years now, right? At two years old. Yeah. So that's new to me. That's the new album. And I really like it. I would like to hear some songs off of it. If that had come out like two months ago, would songs from that album be more susceptible to be in a set list or does that not even factor into it? You're just, you're trying to put together the best live show possible. Yeah. I don't know. I don't, I, that might not factor in truthfully. Yeah. Yeah. I send the live, the live show, you know, song rotation is so dense. It's like 200 ish songs and all right between covers and originals. Maybe over over 300. I think. Yeah. So our pot to pull from is, is really deep. So one more on this and no one will dwell on the set list anymore. Uh, but the one I had to ask about is I'd had to double check on this. I thought I dreamed it because I couldn't find it again when I was going through your sets, Mr. Banker from Leonard Skinner. Oh, so right. You guys have covered this in live shows. I know you've done it on like a social channel, but you, you got, this is in the rotation, even on a small amount, right? Mr. Banker from Leonard Skinner. Yeah. So, um, I think you might've seen that on a set list from, uh, a duo, an acoustic duo that I do. Okay. Cool. Well then good. I'm talking to the right person. Yeah. Um, how the hell do you find that song? And why, why did you decide to play? I can go so deep with Leonard Skinner and I'm almost embarrassed. What a song. How did you pull that? Where, how did that pull come out? Yeah. And even deeper than that is that was one of my questions is, is that the goal is to go find the deep cut and, uh, you know, or is it, or you found the song and you thought we should do this. Or you just like it. Yeah. Yeah. Like eight man kinks saying. That's a good question. We definitely, uh, try to consider the level of like hipness of a certain cover. And, you know, you want it to be hip. You don't want it to be. Psycho killer every time something that I, please, please don't make it psycho killer every time. The reason for that song is, uh, well, that's another whole side of it is like our, our community is so dense and so connected that, uh, you know, just friends of ours or fans will request or suggest a certain song. And, uh, usually they're like right on the meal. A lot of the times they're right on the money with, you know, the fact would be cool for us to cover or be appropriate for the city or whatever. But, uh, really just Jimmy's dad loves that song. He was like, can you please play the song? It's so good. Like Jimmy's one of the early original members of the band. If I remember right. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. He's a, he's part of the, uh, I guess the, the core three, if you want to call it that, that was a, in the band before Brian or I, there used to be a band out of Atlanta called the retreads. That was a straight up cover band and they used to do a stump the band thing. And I keep, when I was looking at your set list, like I kept thinking of them. Cause I remember, uh, one of my buddies, uh, asked for a Don Ho song. And, and so my point is the fun is as an audience member, like, I know that, I know that song, I, you know, they're doing something that I'm familiar, but I can't think of it. Is it from you guys, from your point of view, how I can only guess you're on stage trying to watch the audience to see how long it takes somebody to figure out you're doing a Leonard's Ginnard song or, you know, I'm guessing you can watch the faces like a Brian or me out there going, man, I know this song, but what is that? That definitely happens. You know, it's got like the low, low piano and like, not everybody picks up on that. But when the melody be it up, yeah, well it's like half the room is like, exactly. Well, then you know, like you get into another jam band thing that that's, that's prevalent in the, in the genre is like kind of the teases, like the teases within the song. And I was stumbling through one of your songs on that Baltimore show and you were doing, is it philosophy from Ben Folds or give me my money back, you bitch, that song. And that wasn't on the set list. You just broke into it for a minute. Now, Ben Folds, what's going on? You know, I was like, that's so cool. So do you, is there a lot of that too? A little tease stuff here? We're going to this happens to have the same chord progression. Let's do that for a minute. Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. And that's like, that's a big part of, you know, like some of us, you know, come from like the jazz type, you know, background and quoting is a big part in jazz music. You know, like, oh, yeah, call. Yeah. Throwbacks, callbacks, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So that that like seeps into our music and it's just like fun to do because it's like a it's like a little kicker, like, hey, who's paying attention? Who calls exactly? And like the crowd, you know, it doesn't really land on the crowd a lot of the time, which is pretty funny, but it's kind of more for us on stage, you know, and it keeps us engaged with each other. And well, you are picking a lot of music that a lot of your contemporaries probably haven't heard. Maybe they knew Ben Folds, maybe not quickly. You mentioned a minute ago, Jeremy, about when you guys specifically you and Brian joined the band, it was starting to come together out up in the northeast and and a couple of you Berkeley kids can't remember who is who. Somehow all kind of get together. Brian, I think didn't you show up kind of last as the official member of the band or towards the end of that that trajectory? Talk to me about that. Do you see these guys and just think this is something I got to do or I need a band and here's one like this one's waiting for me? Talk about that transition. Well, I met Jeremy first on. Like a sidewalk at school and then I met Sam and Sam and I started talking right away about starting a band. This is like second semester of college and we got a drummer and we tried out a few keyboard players and like none of them will work. And then I was like, oh, I should call Jeremy. And so basically we started a band up there, had a couple of names. It was Scotch Bonnet and then it was otherwise Useless Children. And, you know, one summer, Jeremy, Sam brought Jeremy down to the Jersey Shore to start playing some music. And I guess that was Dogs on the Pile as soon as you got there, right? It already was like they had to. It was Jim on guitar, Sam on bass, Joey on drums, another guitarist and some other keyboardist who was like kind of a flake. Yeah, so like that the band kind of existed. Well, these two bands kind of existed simultaneously in some ways, which is kind of bizarre because it ended up being one band, of course. Yeah. So that first summer I went down and then back to school, played, you know, we, the our trio had some gigs. I guess it was a quartet, actually. We had a Berklee drummer. We had some gigs we did. We actually did an ensemble class through the school that was our band up there, which was pretty cool. That was awesome. Yeah. And eventually, you know, Dogs was playing gigs and we were like, you know, we had tunes in the Boston band, we'll call it. And like we brought some of those tunes down to the Dogs. And then like after a while, we're like, well, you know, we have we have Brian, like we should try to use him. And we tried a couple of gigs and like those first few didn't really go the way that any of us expected. So it was kind of a slow start to getting the five of us all together. But eventually it did happen and it made sense and it totally, totally worked. I grew my hair a little longer. I want to go back a little bit to the the improv thing. And how much fun is it to be in a band where I'm assuming you guys can challenge each other? I was when you were talking about the improv, I was thinking again about Zappa. And I'm going to name drop, but whatever. I got to interview Dweezil several years ago because he's doing Zappa does Zappa thing. Yeah, Frank's son, Frank's son. And I remember saying to him, Zappa intimidates me because it feels like just as soon as I think I get the joke, he's making fun of me for getting the joke. Oh, you just now got it there. Type, you know what I mean? It's a level and a level and a level. And I mean, it's so man, so deep, but fun. And that's part of the fun. So I'm I'm asking my question is how much fun is it to have be around four other guys who are talented enough to do and get that kind of callback and that kind of jazz and funk and Zappa and whatever? Yeah, funks are where we've left out of this whole show so far. There is a level of funk in there that I don't hear as much within the traditional blues bass sounding jam bands out there. So anyway, go ahead. Sorry to interrupt. No, yeah, the funk is definitely important because, you know, funk is is in a lot of ways a basis for for feel right. Feeling funk and making it feel good is hugely important. Right. If you can make a funk group feel good, you can make a lot of groups feel good. And so, yeah, and as far as, you know, us playing together and being able to challenge each other, it's huge. You know, something we're working on now is like leveling up our more free and open improv game. And so a lot of that has to do with challenges and pushing each other to go beyond what we're really comfortable with. So it's absolutely critical, you know, and if we're not challenging each other on stage, then the crowd is not being challenged by something that could be the greatest, greatest thing ever. You know. Well, I don't have a whole lot more here for you. I don't want to keep you guys. I know you're on the road. You're you're you're traveling shows late last night and I appreciate you so much carving out a late morning for us on a weekend. Thank you. That's no that's no that's no small ask. And that's not lost on us. So thank you very much. I will I will speak in the present of the when this is released. Y'all's Chattanooga show. I will see you tonight. So I will bother you to at least come say say hello and thank you to your PR and management for comping me for that, by the way. Awesome. Yeah. But a couple of things middle name, Brian, comp. Brian, let me in, please. Comp me. A couple of things. I guess I'll start with this real quick. And I have two Internet what are essentially rumors that I want to I want to see if you guys can confirm that. I'm not blind, not in here. But, Jeremy, I went through your Instagram last night. All right. You're a keyboard player. You you you play all the keys, the pianos, the organs. You do that. You do that. Well, I figured that that's your role in the band. Wasn't surprised by that at all. But the more that I went through, is there anything you don't play? Is there any instrument that you're not that good at? Because I can't imagine there is from instruments. I didn't even know what they were. I honestly looked at it and said, I have no I've been listening to music and watching music my whole life. I've never seen that thing. Is that just a hobby of yours? Let's just play every wacky thing out there. Yeah, kind of in a messed up way, for sure. It sure seemed like it. It's you get an amazing perspective learning a different instrument because it's like a whole it's like a brand new approach to music. And, you know, I haven't been doing music that long, maybe 14 years now. Which is a grand is a very long time. That's like half my life, you know. But still, like learning a new instrument is like an entirely new start. And so you glean all this this great information from from that. Having that perspective. Indeed. What is that double decker? I'm not I bet it's not a B3 Hammett or anything, but it's maybe it is. But it's one of your key, you know, your player. And then you have what I can only describe as like a talk box kind of tube that you're playing along with it. I don't hear talk about, you know, I think Peter Frampton, when I think of talk box, I don't hear that. What in the hell was that? Do you know what? Hopefully, I'm not I'm not blindsided here on some. You don't remember what I'm talking about. Well, it's probably if it's a tube going into my mouth, it's probably probably the melodica, which is like it's a free read instrument, kind of like a cross between an accordion, a harmonica and a regular keyboard. And so you're just adding. So you would play a horn instrument almost into your keyboard playing then. I got a keyboard with breath control for like dynamic and some, you know, tonal aspects never seen anything like it. And then there was some other thing that had keys. It looked like, like, I don't know, a saxophone, but it was a keyboard. And then you were blowing into it, too, and playing it. I mean, I'm telling you, you find the wagon. Am I seeing that right, too? What in the hell was that? That's probably also the melodica. You can have a two hand held version. Yeah. Or you can have like a straight pipe, like a like a trumpet type mouthpiece. He's got the vocoder on the mini Korg where you can. Yeah, that's it looks like he's just speaking into a microphone, but it's connected to his synthesizer where he's playing the notes and then. Yeah, like robot voice, kind of with chords. So it is got that talkbox thing a little bit real quick before. While we're talking about what you guys play, Brian, I just had to ask on your Stratocaster, the one you play the most. Is that a Dale Earnhardt three? Just a big three on the on the on there? Yeah. Yeah, it is. Are you a Dale guy? Yeah, for some reason, I just like got into NASCAR a few years ago and because he's been dead before you were maybe boy or I don't know. I mean, your favorite baseball player could be Babe Ruth, just because you weren't alive when he was there. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I watched I watch races currently today, too. And but I just love watching videos and learning about him. He was just such a cool figure. Cool. You know, cool. I've seen many threes on guitars outside of Nashville, but respect. Yeah. I didn't know if there was something like, you know, ironic in there somewhere. Maybe this guy's a Dale, dude. That's pretty that's that's pretty neat. I just I couldn't go without asking that. Brian, you're the one doing the set list. Have you started thinking about Bonnaroo set list or is it too far out? And are you have actually? OK. I think it's going to require a mean shop shop at some point. One of the things that we as fans, Brian, has been to all of them. I've been to 18, I guess, of all of them. One of the things all of. Yeah. One of the things that we love is that it is a fans because they're, you know, they're camping. We talk about it all the time. They're committed. They expect. Bands to push, do something weird, you know, and bands for their part understand that, you know, fans are there and you can try and you can do. So my point is, you know, are you thinking outside of the box? Is there something you're going to think trying to think of something special or? Do you know yet? We haven't talked about it yet, but usually when there's something new like that coming up, we'll definitely put our heads together and. Think of some stuff to make it special. And did you mention you mentioned some of it was probably going to hit the chopping block. Is that just because you're just going to run out of time with a short festival set, probably right? We have a song called Chop Shop and. It's just a great song. I just figured we're going to have to play that there. That's all. All right. Cool. All right. And you say what? You got rumors. All right. So two rumors I stumbled on to read it. First of all, one thought that I came across quickly. In a place that hates everything, red, it doesn't seem to hate you. I couldn't I couldn't find any little, you know, snake wild weeds of mess. So I thought that was that was different and refreshing and nice. But so there was one from a couple of years ago. They were talking about whoever they is that you guys got busted outside of Dallas or on your way to Dallas, somewhere in Texas, that inspired you guys to play trucking when you were in Dallas. Some of those lyrics go together with city names and being busted and pulled over. So it's a believable story. Also, chat GPT could have made that shit up five minutes ago. I don't know. Is there truth to that? That's that's a true story. OK, could you tell us anything you would like to about that? You know, it happened interestingly enough, I think. Was it the 30th or the 50th anniversary of when that happened to the Grateful Dead? That's right. They did say that, too, that it was almost on like the same day. It was that day. It was like the very day. That's in the same. Yeah. So actually, luckily, the band was not involved with this. So we are still perfect little boys that don't do anything bad. You mean you weren't arrested? We we we we we weren't we weren't there is actually the crew. The crew was driving across the country and the band had some other obligations. So we had to fly like the day before the gig. Oh, so the rumor is not exactly true because they didn't say that. But I'm glad it's a little fluffed up, I'm sure. But remember the band, we are perfect. So and we don't do anything bad. So no, wouldn't have been us anyway. But your crew has a bunch of marijuana in the man. Had a bunch of pot. Yeah. But that there was no major arrest or anything. You didn't have to go back for, you know, everybody was cool. Everybody was cool. Nice. All right. I'm glad to hear that one's true. I know the next one's true and I just I can't wait. Brian, if you want to take this because I've heard you talk about it before, Jeremy, either one of you or both. I was blown away and thought this can't be true and looked it up and it was. Did you have a song with lyrics written by Tom Marshall? Tom Marshall, the primary lyricist for Fish, a la like Robert Hunter for The Grateful Dead. That's true. That's correct. Correct. Yes. OK, make sure before I went any further. Tell me about that, please. What a wildly cool just factoid to know. How does that come together? Are you are you friendly with more than acquaintances with Tom Marshall and just as much as time as you'd like to spend on that little or as much? I would be fascinated to hear about it. Yeah. So we met Tom. Through I think the first time we met him was in Atlantic City. We played on an Osiris podcast recording while Fish was in town in Atlantic City during their beach gigs there. And then ran into him a few more times, like around Asbury Park. And you did a Fish gig, like a Fish tribute gig at the Ardmore. The band that is reprise now. I was that was essentially the beginning of that band. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. And I saw them recently and they were they're incredible. That's Broken Bowl and you reprise is a fish song. Well, it's based off Tweezer and the reprise. Tweezer reprise. Yeah. Yeah. I forget like how it happened. It lined up somehow or someone was like, Oh, yeah, Tom would love like. To go on. Our friends boat and we just like ended up on on this boat together. And hanging out with the lyricists from Fish. Yeah, it was like a fishing trip, but we weren't fishing. We were like in the cabin showing each other songs and stuff. And we were practicing the song evolve, which Fish had already started playing, but I think Tab was just about to play or just had started playing. So him and I were sitting down and working out harmonies to that song. And because he originally was like, Oh, let's do a song like Ghost or Waiting in the Velvet Sea. Sorry, I have to backtrack. Sometimes I'm not too good at telling stories and or a man. We were going to do a podcast, a live podcast and performance at the Stone Pony with Tom and R.J.B. Who's another great guy? And that would be the afternoon before Train to Stasio Band plays on the outdoor stage at the Stone Pony. So we had to prepare a song to play with Tom for him to sing on. And originally he had suggested some other fish songs, but I was like, Oh, let's do a new one. You know, let's do one that that's like fresh that people will be excited about. And so we played the song, got it done. We played it that day. And then later on, I think Tab either debuted it for Train to Stasio Band that night. They at least played it. And that was really cool, really cool moment to be part of. And then one day I just texted Tom, I was like, Hey, if you ever have any stray lyrics or anything, send them my way, I would love to, you know, take a crack at it. It was like writing a song. And. He was like, Well, there's this song called You Didn't Hear It From Me that I wrote with this guy, Anthony. Crys and. He played in the spin doctors. And. He sent the song to Jimmy and I, and we really liked it. And so I showed it to the band and we quickly learned it and started playing it. That's become a part of our catalog that we play and jam on. And then we actually went on another boat trip together where we went from Charleston. We were supposed to go up to Jersey, but the trip got cut short because of an insane storm. Like, I don't even know if I told you it was like the craziest. So I'm prepared. It was it was wild. And yeah, started working on. He pulled up some some lyrics that he had already started working on. And it was the theme was like unfocused. And so I started playing some stuff to it on the boat and. I don't know. Long story short, that song became unfocused. And we worked on it over time. And then one day him and I and Anthony went up to Anthony's studio in Raritan, New Jersey and completed it that day, along with some other songs that are in the works. And yeah, started playing it recently. I think we debuted it on New Year's Eve. And. Yes, slowly, but surely it's finding its legs and, you know, it's a good jam vehicle for us to. To delve into. Yeah, my my last follow up on that real quick is that you were talking to another podcast that I just stumbled on for a minute, Brian, about how Tom Marshall had talked about that. What was it? Something like nine out of 10 songs or just just throwaways like some it's some kind of philosophy of you just got to churn and burn and keep going through all this stuff, because a lot of these things aren't going to be as good as you think you are. And it seemed like you kind of agreed with that from your own experience. How is that like to be trying to work in an industry? I never really thought about it in that way. It's almost like a baseball average. You know, three out of 10 is good. It's pretty good when seven times it might not be what you wanted. And the fact that a guy like Tom Marshall says something like that, of course, he's got a lot of a material probably. But your thoughts on that? Yeah, I definitely agree with it. There are I mean, for me personally, there are hundreds of song ideas and rotation that I that I just have in my head or on my phone. And voice memos that, you know, you try to figure out if it'll work for the band, but like, you're not really sure. He told me that that's Trey and Stasio's kind of logic with with writing songs is that he says, you know, out of 20, you're going to get one that's like maybe. Good. And it could be so soul crushing. I got to come up with 20. Yeah, but what's inspiring about that is he does, you know, everybody that knows Trey says he just writes all the time. He wakes up at four in the morning. It's all day drinks coffee and just writes every day. And I find that so inspiring, like just constantly keeping that creative light on is really cool and just letting you know, he says he likes to keep it in the realm of improvisation, too, where like, you know, if it's not great, just just let it go. And that allows me to to have a little bit more of like the sense of fearlessness with with writing recently, is that, you know, not everything has to be. So great, you know, have to use it, but chances are, if you're sitting down and constantly letting that inspiration in by having a pen in your hand. You know, you're more likely to get something great because you're putting in the work, a lot of songwriters talk about that, that you can't just like wait for inspiration, you have to actually sit down. And the chances are you're going to get it way quicker. But there are times where you're just walking down the street and you think of an idea or a concept for a whole song in one shot. And those are the best moments. But they're they're they're rare. It's always fascinated me to talk to songwriters and they'll say, I didn't think that was the one that was going to connect. You know, I thought this was the better song, but this is the one that connects. And that to me is, you know, how could you not? I don't. How did you not know that was going to be like, how can you not see my brilliance over here? I could. And it's not up to you if it's going to be right. Yeah. Works and connects with people or not. You know, yeah, it's kind of the Rick Rubin thing. Well, I mean, I guess Rick Rubin goes a different direction on that, too. I won't go down that road, but that's I mean, agree or not, fish is is is in the nomination discussion and officially for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. There's a reason why they've licked this jam band thing in the modern era as good as anybody. And to have that much interaction with Tom Marshall, who is a such a yeah, instrumental to that success is such a cool story. I don't have much else. Barry, what do you know? I can wrap it up and get you guys out back out on the road. And then thank you so much for your time. Can't thank you enough. We'll see you Wednesday. We'll see you tonight for those who are listening just now and will definitely see you on the farm. And I cannot wait. Sorry, one more. You're about the most perfect band to be hearing on the farm. So, yeah, I'm going to do guys. This isn't just blowing smoke. It's been a fun week catching up on your music. I'll see you at Chattanooga tonight. And I know this is lame and loserish and I'm a do it anyway. I tell you what to do. But what I'm what I am going to say is the and I know it's newer and I don't know. It might be one of your more popular songs. All the same, that thing's a freaking masterpiece. If I were to hear that in Chattanooga tonight, you might have a dog forever. You might have a dog forever anyway. Just saying, just saying. Already putting in requests. It might just line up with the with the show gap because we did play it recently. I had the emoji, the praying hands emoji. I'm just saying, I'm just saying I'll be there tonight. It's going to be fun. We know one of the talent buyers for that venue was a longtime member of our Bonnaroo camp and music promoter in the southeast. He's the one who helped me get together with you guys. It's a great venue. And boy, it's going to be fun. Can't wait and just keep that in mind if you don't care. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. They were very gracious to join us on a Sunday from Madison, Wisconsin. Yeah, I mean, we do this at 11 o'clock on Sundays. Just not ideal for a lot of people, especially if you are doing a late night show and you're on a bus traveling to the next city to jump up at 11. Well, it turned out to be noon. When it's fine, it's fine at noon. That's cool. That's a lot to ask. I feel like that's a lot to ask. Yeah. And it was awesome. I'm glad as often happens, you know, the last question ends up being sort of the the money shot. And it was fun to hear them talk about writing with with Tom. Tom Marshall. Yeah, from Fish, when I saw that in that Reddit thread and I saw nobody say, hey, you guys are liars. Where'd you make up that dumb story? Yeah. Doesn't mean it wasn't a bunch of super fans who also didn't know. But I thought, holy, wow. I mean, what a way, you know, just to stumble into a such an opportunity of just meeting somebody. Next thing you know. Yeah, here's some lyrics. Yeah, that's right. That's like a Robert Hunter. From the dead. You're finished this. No one's ever heard, you know, a lot of people don't know who aren't big into the dead. Jerry Garcia wrote some lyrics, certainly for the Jerry Garcia band, but not near really all that many for the Roland. Oh, sorry. The Grateful Dead. Robert Hunter did. And or, you know, or a Bernie Toppin for. Yeah. For Elton John. Like, so it's not it's it's not usual, but when it is, it's legendary. Yeah. Right. It's like it's like you you deserve your own award. And Tom Marshall is that guy for fish and for their for their early on in their career to be able to run into that guy, impress him enough and then trade notes. And I think there I mean, there was more than just that one from collaboration. How how damn cool is that? That and and just looking at their resumes, these these are very talented. Trained musicians like classically trained. Yeah, I mean, yeah, like School of Arts, Berkeley, Philadelphia School of Arts. I didn't want to go into that with them too much because, you know, like they don't. Yeah. Yeah. Well, in school, we're pretty good. What else do you want me to say? Well, but I mean, when you throw around like their list of inspiration, Coltrane, Miles Davis, Zappa, Jaco Pastorius, Buddy Rich. I mean, they were raised right. There you go. There you go. That's don't know how else to say it. They were raised. All right. That was a lot of fun. So I hope you guys enjoyed that as much as we did. We will be back next week. Russ should be back and guys. Get your steps in, start hydrating and start making your Bonnaroo pile. Got all that. Get all that stuff out of the closet and make sure the rats haven't eaten it. About time. It's about time. Is there that you think is there? Don't don't wait till the day before. Sure. It should have already said this at the tail end of the interview or the beginning of our close here. Thank you so much, Kevin and Ross from PR and management from Dogs in a Pile and how accommodating it were to help make that happen. Thank you very much. Got it together pretty quick. All right. So there you go, guys. We'll see you next week.