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Hello my friend. I am

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often asked about how people

2:21

can get even more witchwave

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and more magic in their

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lives overall. And I have

2:28

the answer. You can join

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me over on the witchwave

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patron. This is how you

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can hear from me and

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get detailed show notes for

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all of it. And all

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patron members also get access

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also include magical merch. and

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contests where you can win

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get access to our exclusive

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over to patreon.com/witchwave and sign

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up. It's a magnificent way

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to get more magic in

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your life and to support

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the show. Thank you so

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much. The world is filled

3:47

with bewitching people and you

3:50

might be one too. welcome

3:52

to the podcast, where

3:54

is magic,

3:57

magic is real,

3:59

and reality

4:01

is stranger than

4:03

dreams. than Pam

4:06

Grossman, and

4:08

this is is The

4:10

Witch Wave. Oh,

4:28

to the me. Hello

4:44

and and welcome to witch wave. I both can

4:46

I both can that can't believe

4:48

that we're already into December. a This

4:50

has been such a strange year

4:52

that has felt like it's gone

4:55

so quickly for me, at but

4:57

also at times has felt pretty

4:59

fucking endless, I I don't know if

5:01

you can relate, but for me so

5:03

much of the year was spent

5:05

in this in zone while I

5:07

was writing my book, and so

5:10

it feels like I'm sort of

5:12

waking up from a dream of that

5:14

the manuscript is mostly done. And

5:17

then of course, the election

5:19

has given me this new sense

5:21

of urgency and higher engagement

5:23

with current events, which is not

5:25

always fun as we know. as

5:27

we know. And so admittedly trying to

5:29

sort of get my footing

5:32

right now and find some some

5:34

between wanting to reconnect with friends

5:36

and family who I haven't

5:38

seen as much of this year

5:40

year wanting to be present for

5:42

the holidays the also for my

5:44

community in this shifting political

5:47

landscape. But I'm also feeling protective

5:49

of that sense of sanctuary

5:51

that I tried so hard to

5:53

preserve while I was writing,

5:55

and I don't want to entirely

5:57

let that you. that

5:59

go. you. it's going

6:02

to be a process for

6:04

all of us to figure

6:06

out how do we continue

6:08

to show up for the

6:11

people and causes we care

6:13

about while still nurturing ourselves

6:15

and protecting our own energy.

6:17

This is always the question

6:20

I know, but it feels

6:22

even more important to contemplate

6:24

this winter as we begin

6:26

to close out the year

6:29

and turn toward 2025. For

6:31

me, maintaining my magic and

6:33

leaning into ritual feels so

6:35

important this season, and I

6:38

intend to make sure I'm

6:40

being generous with others, but

6:42

not giving too much of

6:44

my own energy and attention

6:47

away. And if this resonates

6:49

with you, you may want

6:51

to join me and Jonathan

6:53

Stuckey on December 19th for

6:56

an online winter solstice ritual

6:58

workshop, this one we're calling

7:00

Star Fire. And we'll be

7:02

focusing on stellar magic and

7:05

ways to find direction and

7:07

centering during this dark and

7:09

frenetic time of year. So

7:11

please do join us if

7:14

you feel called to as

7:16

ever. It will be recorded

7:18

if you can't make it

7:20

live and tickets are sliding

7:23

scale pricing so anybody can

7:25

join at any level. You

7:27

can register over at Pam

7:30

Grossman.com/events or via the link

7:32

in my fantasma file Instagram

7:34

bio. We would love to

7:36

see you there and we

7:39

hope it will offer a

7:41

centering balancing stellar moment for

7:43

you. Speaking of stars, I

7:45

got to collaborate a little

7:48

bit with today's guest, Laura

7:50

Tempest Zakrov, on a truly

7:52

stellar bit of art magic.

7:54

So let me explain. As

7:57

co-director of the witchcraft volume

7:59

of Tashin's incredible Library of

8:01

Esoterica series, one of my

8:03

many jobs was helping editor

8:06

Jessica Hunley and lead designer

8:08

Nick Taylor of Thunderwing in

8:10

sourcing the work of artists

8:12

and writers who were featured

8:15

in the book. And at

8:17

one point they asked me

8:19

if I knew of anyone

8:21

who could help devise a

8:24

magical emblem for the frontus

8:26

piece of the book, which

8:28

is like the first page

8:30

opposite the title page. Jessica

8:33

and Nick were envisioning some

8:35

sort of bespoke sigil that

8:37

would bless and charge the

8:39

book with bewitching intention and

8:42

look damn gorgeous while doing

8:44

it. And I immediately thought

8:46

of Laura Tempest Zakrov because

8:48

she is an art witch

8:51

and an expert in sigil's.

8:53

She literally wrote the book,

8:55

Sigil Witchery, so I just

8:57

knew she'd be perfect for

9:00

the job. And she worked

9:02

closely with the team to

9:04

create a sigil for the

9:06

book that is evocative, elegant,

9:09

and infused with good intentions

9:11

for what we wrote and

9:13

for witches everywhere. She titled

9:15

this emblem, Star Body Sigil.

9:18

and the sigil is a

9:20

very elaborate pentagram that incorporates

9:22

the five elements and also

9:24

an eye for vision, moons,

9:27

stars, various animals, a cauldron,

9:29

and swirling energetic lines and

9:31

powers of all sorts. Okay,

9:33

I'm definitely not doing it

9:36

justice, so do check it

9:38

out online or better yet

9:40

in the Library of Esoterica

9:42

witchcraft book itself. It is

9:45

so, so beautiful and powerful.

9:47

But when I look at

9:49

the sigil, I feel charged

9:51

up with starry, witchy magic.

9:54

Working with schedules, whether crafting

9:56

your own or utilizing someone

9:58

else's design, is a simple

10:00

but highly effective way to

10:03

center oneself. attention and intention

10:05

on a better state of

10:07

being. Doing so is an

10:09

act of empowerment for ourselves

10:12

and possibly for others. And

10:14

I love how Laura has

10:16

devoted so much of her

10:18

practice to spiritual activism, including

10:21

generating schedules of care and

10:23

strength for vulnerable populations. I

10:25

also love how she is

10:27

an outspoken advocate for material

10:30

activism as well, and as

10:32

you'll hear, she talks so

10:34

thoughtfully about ways to incorporate

10:36

social justice work into our

10:39

witchcraft and how to infuse

10:41

our politics with magic power.

10:43

But before we get to

10:45

that, first let's check and

10:48

see what's come through on

10:50

the witch wire. Who

10:54

is it? Wishes. Christina writes, hi

10:57

Pam, my mom has dementia. And

10:59

over the years, as my dad

11:02

has combed through her stuff, he

11:04

has found crystals and what looked

11:06

to be spell jars and pouches.

11:09

Noticing them around the house as

11:11

the years go by, and as

11:14

I grow into my own practice,

11:16

I'm starting to piece together that

11:18

my mom was indeed a witch.

11:21

Growing up, I always felt like

11:23

there was something magical about her.

11:25

Be it how deeply she loved

11:28

others, how animals were always drawn

11:30

to her, and how the best

11:33

medicine I ever received was her

11:35

soup. We are so much alike.

11:37

And I feel like I'm finally

11:40

growing towards my most self-actualized self.

11:42

She would be proud of me,

11:45

and I hope she knows how

11:47

much I love her. My question

11:49

is, what should I do with

11:52

the spell jars and such? Thank

11:54

you for your wonderful podcast Pam.

11:57

Christina. Thank you so much for

11:59

writing and for sharing about your

12:01

newfound connection to your mom. And

12:04

I just want to say I'm

12:06

so sorry to hear that she's

12:09

experiencing dementia. I know how rough

12:11

of a road that is. But

12:13

I do believe that even though

12:16

you might not be able to

12:18

communicate with her in the material

12:21

realm as well as you used

12:23

to if at all your spiritual

12:25

connection to her is eternal and

12:28

you can absolutely communicate with her

12:30

in that more subtle realm. I

12:33

am certain she's proud of you.

12:35

I am certain she knows that

12:37

you love her, but you can

12:40

absolutely try and communicate that in

12:42

that more immaterial, ethereal, magical realm

12:45

any time you wish. And I

12:47

love that you're realizing that you

12:49

and she have this deep magical

12:52

connection too, and that will always

12:54

be with you as well. So

12:57

in terms of her spell

12:59

jars, I'm not sure how

13:01

many there are or if

13:03

there's a clear reason you

13:06

need to get rid of

13:08

them now. If not, I

13:10

might suggest hanging on to

13:12

them until she passes, just

13:14

because why not? There might

13:16

be some energy left to

13:18

the spells that she's still

13:20

attached to. And so you

13:22

could always play it safe

13:25

and just let them continue

13:27

to work their magic as

13:29

long as she's still on

13:31

this side of the veil.

13:33

And you can always try

13:35

and ask her in the

13:37

spiritual realm what her wishes

13:39

are regarding this, whether you

13:41

attempt to do this in

13:44

a dream state or through

13:46

meditation or magical journaling. You

13:48

may just receive an answer

13:50

or have an intuition about

13:52

her wishes, so just stay

13:54

open and receptive to those

13:56

kinds of messages that might

13:58

come through, symbols or songs

14:00

or dreams, and so on.

14:03

But whenever it is that

14:05

you sense, it is time

14:07

to those spell jars and

14:09

again that time might be

14:11

now if you have good

14:13

reason for it. Then I

14:15

recommend you do a really

14:17

simple ritual which is to

14:19

open the jars up and

14:22

proclaim out loud to spirit

14:24

that the material part of

14:26

this working is coming to

14:28

a close and and that

14:30

the energy of the spell

14:32

may continue to do its

14:34

work as it's meant to,

14:36

or otherwise it can feel

14:39

welcome to come to an

14:41

end if it is ready.

14:43

But making a clear statement

14:45

of intention is helpful when

14:47

ending any spell so that

14:49

spirit knows whether to continue

14:51

trying to work with the

14:53

energy or to just let

14:55

it dissipate. And always remember

14:58

to thank Spirit for its

15:00

collaboration, and you can do

15:02

that on your mom's behalf.

15:04

Now once you do this

15:06

declaration, you know, this closing,

15:08

this releasing, however you want

15:10

to put it, I personally

15:12

would then just consider the

15:14

material leavings to be emptied

15:17

of the original energy and

15:19

so then you can just

15:21

dispose of them consciously as

15:23

you would any other material.

15:25

If there are natural elements

15:27

involved you can give those

15:29

back to the earth. and

15:31

then you can clean and

15:33

recycle any parts of it

15:36

that you're able to. And

15:38

then, yeah, you can just

15:40

chuck the rest of it

15:42

in the garbage. I know

15:44

people sometimes feel really anxious

15:46

about, quote unquote, throwing their

15:48

magic away, but magic is

15:50

energy. It's not stuff. And

15:52

since your mom has already

15:55

put that energy out into

15:57

the universe or the ether

15:59

or whatever you want to

16:01

call it, through her spellwork,

16:03

and you have then finalized

16:05

the spell and released those

16:07

energies with intention and brought

16:09

it to a mindful ending,

16:11

those material substances aren't animated

16:14

anymore from that point forward.

16:16

so please don't worry about

16:18

discarding what's left behind. Or

16:20

you might choose to hang

16:22

on to some of those

16:24

materials for sentimental value or

16:26

to do some kind of

16:28

spirit work or ancestral work

16:30

with her once she's crossed.

16:33

You might just choose to

16:35

repurpose them in a meaningful

16:37

way that's sentimental or magical.

16:39

That's entirely up to you.

16:41

as for the crystals and

16:43

so on, you can absolutely

16:45

hang on to those, though

16:47

you may want to cleanse

16:49

them in salt water or

16:52

with smoke or by leaving

16:54

them in moonlight or sunlight,

16:56

whichever feels appropriate. You may

16:58

want to then put some

17:00

of them on your altar

17:02

or in a special pouch

17:04

or box. Or if you

17:06

feel like giving those back

17:08

to the earth, you can

17:11

leave them as an offering

17:13

in a place that feels

17:15

divine. But whatever you decide,

17:17

please know that I'm sending

17:19

you and your mom my

17:21

love and support across all

17:23

realms. Now, onto my guest.

17:25

Laura Tempest Zakrov is a

17:27

professional artist, author, performer, and

17:30

modern traditional witch based in

17:32

New England. She holds a

17:34

BFA from the Rhode Island

17:36

School of Design and her

17:38

artwork has received awards and

17:40

honors worldwide. Her work embodies

17:42

myth and the esoteric through

17:44

her drawings and paintings, jewelry,

17:46

talismans, and other designs. Laura

17:49

is the author of several

17:51

best-selling Llewellyn books, including Weave

17:53

the Liminal, Sigil-Witchery, Visual Alchemy,

17:55

and Anatomy of a Witch.

17:57

as well as the artist

17:59

and author of the sigil-witchary

18:01

oracle, the anatomy of a

18:03

witch oracle, and the liminal

18:05

spirit oracle. She is also

18:08

devoted magical activism through her

18:10

sigil offerings and other work.

18:12

To that end, Laura edited

18:14

three books on magical activism

18:16

and counting, and those include

18:18

The New Aratia, a which

18:20

is handbooked to magical resistance,

18:22

the Gorgens Guide to magical

18:24

resistance, and Serpents of Cerci,

18:27

a manual to magical resilience,

18:29

all from Revolor press. Laura

18:31

is the creative force behind

18:33

several community events and teaches

18:35

workshops online and worldwide. Her

18:37

site, We Are Aradia.org, is

18:39

a hub for Magic and

18:41

Activism, and her site, Laura

18:43

Tempestzakrov.com, is where you can

18:46

learn more about all her

18:48

other art witch offerings. Laura

18:50

joined me remotely from her

18:52

home in Providence, Rhode Island.

19:02

Laura Tempest Zakroth. Welcome to the

19:05

witchwave. Thanks so much for having

19:07

me. Great to be here. I'm

19:09

so, so, so happy that you

19:11

are here. Usually I don't like

19:14

time stamp when I'm recording with

19:16

somebody because these are generally evergreen

19:18

conversations, but I think it's important

19:20

for listeners to know that you

19:23

and I are recording roughly one

19:25

week after the election. It's been

19:27

maybe eight or nine days. So

19:29

when I was thinking about who

19:32

I wanted to speak with in

19:34

the aftermath of this election, which

19:36

listeners will not be surprised to

19:38

know that I am deeply devastated

19:41

about. You were the person who

19:43

leapt into my mind because I've

19:45

been wanting to have you on

19:47

the show for a long while.

19:50

I have admired your work and

19:52

will talk about lots of different

19:54

aspects of your work for many

19:56

many years, but you're also one

19:59

of the boldest voices

20:01

in the witchcraft community

20:03

that talks about magical

20:05

resistance and magical resilience.

20:07

I'm just being selfish

20:10

right now because I

20:12

want to talk to

20:14

you personally and I

20:16

figured that other people

20:18

would benefit from that

20:20

conversation too. So

20:23

yeah, basically I'm like, how, what,

20:26

what, what, like, what do we

20:28

do? And obviously that's like a

20:30

giant question that we will try

20:32

to circle around, I'm sure many

20:34

different ways in this conversation. But

20:36

first of all, I guess we

20:38

can just say like, what the

20:40

fuck, right? Right. Oh my gosh.

20:42

It's like, oh, we had we

20:45

had to pass and I'm like,

20:47

wait, you chose this one? Yeah,

20:49

exactly. Exactly. So I guess my

20:51

first question for you is, how

20:53

are you feeling about this election?

20:55

How are you feeling this week?

20:57

Just let's do a little check

20:59

in. you said like it's just

21:01

been a meal of a week

21:04

and like it feels like it's

21:06

been a year. It's been the

21:08

longest longest week. Yes. And the

21:10

journey through the different grief cycles

21:12

for me personally with my partner

21:14

and then our community has just

21:16

been like, all right, everything all

21:18

at once. They definitely allowed myself

21:20

a few days to just kind

21:23

of lay low and consider. I

21:25

think that's the most important thing.

21:27

When you dealt with something like

21:29

this, you just can't be like,

21:31

all right, now we're going to

21:33

go fight. I hope let's process,

21:35

let's deal with our grief, let's

21:37

let go of where we thought

21:39

we were going and realigned into

21:41

your new location for where we

21:44

were going with this. Yes. And

21:46

then kick into gear, which is,

21:48

it only took about two days

21:50

for me to bounce into that,

21:52

or am I right? Here we

21:54

go. Wow, you're more resilient than

21:56

me because I feel like I'm

21:58

just sort of peeling myself off

22:00

the proverbial couch and the literal

22:03

couch. Maybe the last two or

22:05

three days I've felt. all right,

22:07

let's do this. Because the first

22:09

week, I mean, I was pretty

22:11

paralyzed, to be honest. Oh, absolutely.

22:13

I feel like still on a

22:15

deeper personal level, like I've been

22:17

trying to work on art and

22:19

that has not been happening. At

22:22

the same time, being so ingrained

22:24

in community, not just locally, but

22:26

nationally and globally, people are counting

22:28

on, like, what do we do

22:30

next? And I feel like it's

22:32

important. help each other move forward

22:34

with that. But I also had

22:36

the somewhat both unfortunate issue as

22:38

well as a blessing that we

22:41

planned a big ball last Friday

22:43

night. It's been planned since April.

22:45

So it's like the last thing

22:47

I wanted to do definitely Wednesday

22:49

was like, I can't believe we

22:51

have a ball. But it ended

22:53

up being amazing because it was

22:55

such a beautiful and kind of

22:57

joyful thing for all of those

23:00

folks to be able to get

23:02

together and just be like, you

23:04

know, we're going to still celebrate

23:06

life. Yes. And realize that we

23:08

do have a community and we

23:10

incorporated a ritual with Persephone in

23:12

there. People said, like, I needed

23:14

this. I didn't know how badly

23:16

I needed this, but this was

23:18

exactly what I needed. in the

23:21

moment. Yes. Sometimes you just need

23:23

to like get that kick in

23:25

the butt. Yes, yes. What was

23:27

this ball? What was it called?

23:29

Persephone rising ball. And our subtitle

23:31

for it was Coronation of a

23:33

Dark Queen, which we picked back

23:35

in April. So it's part of

23:37

Key and Serpent Society, which is

23:40

our local modern traditional witchcraft study

23:42

group. We have two, we have

23:44

a festival that happens in the

23:46

summer and then in some sort

23:48

of interior event because it's Rhode

23:50

Island. So this year we did

23:52

a ball, a very fancy, amazing

23:54

event at a historic building. When

23:56

I think of a ball, I

23:59

think of dancing. Was there dancing

24:01

or are there other activities going

24:03

on? Definitely dancing. We had the

24:05

Nathaniel Johnstone band playing music. We

24:07

also had DJ music. We had

24:09

performances at Dark Cabaret. We had

24:11

our Elysian-field vendors. There were readers

24:13

there. Because the Roger Williams Casino

24:15

is this 1896 historic building that

24:18

has two floors, people could flow

24:20

from being downstairs and going up

24:22

and dancing and coming back down.

24:24

all of that. So, uh, that

24:26

sounds perfect. It sounds cathartic and

24:28

unifying and healing. And I could

24:30

understand that feeling of like, ugh,

24:32

I don't want to actually go

24:34

and party. But then I could

24:37

also understand how that could be

24:39

like maybe exactly what everybody needed

24:41

after this election. Absolutely. So it

24:43

was the right thing. It was

24:45

like, do we cancel? Like, nope,

24:47

we're going to go forward and

24:49

we're not going to lose our

24:51

joy because of what's going on.

24:53

Exactly. On a personal note, you

24:55

know, I had something not to

24:58

that scale, not a ball to

25:00

attend, but I had a plan

25:02

with some friends the weekend after

25:04

the election. I need a whole

25:06

bunch of new photos because my

25:08

new book is coming out next

25:10

year. And so I had planned

25:12

to work with a lovely friend

25:14

of mine, Francis Denny, who's just

25:17

an incredible photographer and shoot at

25:19

my friend's house and, you know,

25:21

my other friend who's a witch

25:23

and a makeup artist came and,

25:25

you know, we had this whole

25:27

thing planned and I was so

25:29

tempted to cancel. I was like,

25:31

I've been crying for days. my

25:33

picture taken right now, but I

25:36

was like, you know, these are

25:38

my friends, but they're also professionals

25:40

and I don't want to cancel

25:42

a gig for them that they

25:44

might have been counting on. And

25:46

so I just pushed myself to

25:48

do it. And it ended up

25:50

being so fun and playful. You

25:52

know, I was switching. my outfits,

25:55

my costumes, like, you know, playing

25:57

dress up for hours in this

25:59

beautiful space with people I love

26:01

being creative, making art, you know,

26:03

and it was just wonderful to

26:05

have that distraction. And to your

26:07

point to just keep living and

26:09

keep creative because that's what we

26:11

got to do. It sounds like

26:14

a very healing experience to be

26:16

able to revel in that and

26:18

again to be around those like-minded

26:20

folks and create a vision. Exactly.

26:22

So speaking of creating a vision,

26:24

you are somebody who creates I

26:26

think many many visions through your

26:28

artwork Spellcraft, I see them as

26:30

being one and the same with

26:32

many artists and many artistic witches,

26:35

but you are someone who so

26:37

beautifully emulates this idea that art

26:39

and magic are two sides of

26:41

the same coin. I've been a

26:43

fan of your illustrations and your

26:45

paintings for a long time, but

26:47

how you really sort of came

26:49

into my consciousness was your work

26:51

around sigil's. So I wanted to

26:54

first just invite you to catch

26:56

my listeners up, anybody who might

26:58

not know what a sigil is.

27:00

I imagine most people do, but

27:02

just in case, how do you

27:04

describe what a sigil is? Sure.

27:06

So I see a sigil as

27:08

a symbol, a mark, a shape

27:10

that has been created by human

27:13

beings and is believed to have

27:15

magical properties, which covers a wide

27:17

range of things. And that goes

27:19

back thousands upon thousands of years.

27:21

But the main thing is that

27:23

we have some sort of symbol

27:25

made by human beings and that

27:27

belief that it has magic. And

27:29

we can draw it, etch it,

27:32

dance it, breathe it. However we

27:34

want to engage with it, as

27:36

long as it is made by

27:38

us, it is a sigil. And

27:40

now when I look at the

27:42

signals that you create, because you

27:44

often create these signals and you

27:46

put them on the internet for

27:48

people to make use of, in

27:50

addition to boosting the signal of

27:53

the signal, and the kind of

27:55

signals that you make have titles

27:57

such as, and I'll just read

27:59

a couple, for the protection

28:01

of the most vulnerable, a sigil

28:03

for the protection of transgender rights,

28:06

good health sigil, a sigil for

28:08

managing panic, a sigil to protect

28:10

protesters, and then a sigil that

28:12

I particularly love, which is called

28:15

the power sigil. I'll do my

28:17

best to describe it. It looks

28:19

essentially like a pentagram. There are

28:21

five crescent moons embedded in it.

28:23

There are arrows. I mean, it's

28:26

a real powerful image. And as

28:28

you describe it, the power sigil

28:30

is protection for all those who

28:32

need it and to keep space

28:34

for those to come and the

28:37

legacy of the best that we

28:39

are capable of, protect your body,

28:41

your homes, your vehicles, your chosen

28:43

family. So these are very generous

28:45

sigils, their community-minded sigil, their protective

28:48

sigils. When did you start making

28:50

these? So the shared magic sigil,

28:52

which is most of what you

28:54

see on my blog or shows

28:56

up in the archive and visual

28:59

alchemy, are the result of my

29:01

sigil witry workshops. So when teaching

29:03

the method and giving folks the

29:05

history and the background and how

29:07

can they use this method for

29:10

themselves, We also go through an

29:12

exercise where we craft a sigil

29:14

together. And so we have anywhere

29:16

from a few people to several

29:19

hundred people all working together either

29:21

in person or online to create

29:23

one of these images, which I

29:25

think is one of the most

29:27

beautiful things about it, is that

29:30

we have so many different voices

29:32

creating a common vision. And then

29:34

when it's released, on the blog

29:36

and refined that I also explained

29:38

exactly what went into it. That

29:41

is one of those key things

29:43

because there are plenty of signals

29:45

floating around Tumblr and TikTok just

29:47

randomly on the internet that say

29:49

there for a thing but you

29:52

don't know what went into it.

29:54

What was the person thinking? Right.

29:56

So this you exactly see that.

29:58

I think really started doing it

30:00

on a larger scale in 2016.

30:03

So the power sigil is now

30:05

eight years old because it was

30:07

created in November 2016. And so

30:09

when you talk about the component

30:11

parts of a sigil, can you

30:14

break that down a little bit?

30:16

I've seen you explain it on

30:18

Instagram and on your blog, but

30:20

essentially like each symbol is very

30:23

considered and very intentional, correct? Yes.

30:25

So the method is four parts.

30:27

The first one is to identify

30:29

what is the purpose of the

30:31

sigil. Just like with any spellcraft,

30:34

right? Like why am I doing

30:36

this spell? Why am I doing

30:38

this ritual? What's the purpose? The

30:40

second phase is to brainstorm and

30:42

that is all of the elements

30:45

or ingredients that you want to

30:47

incorporate into the sigil to help

30:49

you solve that issue. And when

30:51

we reach the third phase, a

30:53

design part, you're assigning a symbol,

30:56

a shape, a mark, something that

30:58

describes that energy or has meaning

31:00

for you, that describes that idea.

31:02

And then they're combined together. So

31:04

there's multiple levels of meaning that

31:07

are combined to create the sigil.

31:09

So for example, the power sigil,

31:11

and this was not intended for

31:13

it to be a pop quiz

31:15

here, do you remember some of

31:18

the ingredients that went into that

31:20

particular sigil? So with that one,

31:22

which is one of the rare

31:24

ones that I self-created, it was

31:27

not a class exercise in that

31:29

one. the star, the five-pointed star,

31:31

represents the whole of the human

31:33

body, right? If you think about

31:35

it, if we stretch our arms

31:38

and legs out, we are a

31:40

star, right? Our head, arms, legs,

31:42

right? Yes, very vitruvian man vibes.

31:44

Yes, yes, here we are. We

31:46

are sentient starfish, right? Yeah. You

31:49

also have that it's a five.

31:51

I see five as a number

31:53

of protection in that when you

31:55

see that star for protection or

31:57

you see anything to do with

32:00

hands, the hamse of the hand

32:02

of Fatima, signs of benediction, the

32:04

helping hand itself, right? There's this

32:06

point of connection and protection and

32:08

identity that are linked into that.

32:11

but you can also see it

32:13

connected to the tarot. So with

32:15

the Herefent or the Hirefent, depending

32:17

how people like to pronounce that,

32:19

where we're at in that card

32:22

is a place of spiritual consideration.

32:24

We've laid down our abundance and

32:26

sovereignty with the empress. We've considered

32:28

foundation and guidelines with the emperor.

32:31

And here we are going, what

32:33

does it mean? What do we

32:35

believe in? And what are the

32:37

traditions we're going to release? You

32:39

can just say that all encompassed

32:42

in just the star, which is

32:44

a lot. Yeah, love, love. But

32:46

the, as you described, there are

32:48

arrows, so for folks who haven't

32:50

seen it out of the larger

32:53

star, because it's a very big

32:55

star and then an interior star

32:57

within it. On the larger star,

32:59

there are these triplicate arrows, which

33:01

shoot out from the points. So

33:04

if you imagine every point in

33:06

the star is elongated with a

33:08

triplicate arrow. Three is a magical

33:10

number, past, present, future, mind, body,

33:12

spirit, right, within those concepts. But

33:15

if we're looking at a sigil

33:17

that is designed to protect all

33:19

folks who need it, that you

33:21

as a human being, regardless of

33:23

the color of your skin or

33:26

your religion or your gender or

33:28

who you love, the fact that

33:30

you should have health care, all

33:32

of these things that you should

33:35

be honored and respected as a

33:37

human being, should perhaps shoot off

33:39

into those who haven't quite got

33:41

that concept yet. Mmm, yes. Yeah,

33:43

I make the joke though for

33:46

people who are like, ooh, I

33:48

don't know about shooting arrows. I'm

33:50

like, then there are happy fucking

33:52

little trees. There you go. Interpret

33:54

it as you wish. Yeah, they're

33:57

little conifers and if you think

33:59

about at pine trees, we're getting

34:01

into the pine trees season, right?

34:03

And what are pine trees? They're

34:05

very sticky and pointy. So that

34:08

idea works as well. I love

34:10

that. I love that. And what

34:12

about the moons? So the moons

34:14

represent waxing and waning energy that

34:16

we are bringing in and blessing

34:19

some energy and we are banishing

34:21

and cleansing some other energy. And

34:23

we can also see that since

34:25

there are five of them and

34:27

they're in the most vulnerable parts

34:30

of the star, technically protecting these

34:32

little seed-like dots, which I consider

34:34

as legacy for tomorrow. We are

34:36

also thinking about maybe the minor

34:39

orkana because we know when you

34:41

pull a five in the minor

34:43

orkana, I'm like, God damn it!

34:45

What's the problem I need to

34:47

fix here? Right? Like the five

34:50

workshops like get over this issue,

34:52

clear up your communication, clear up

34:54

your action. You know, so what

34:56

kind of thing needs to be

34:58

broken and rebuilt, right? Reevaluated it

35:01

so that we can move on

35:03

to six, right? A place of

35:05

movement, the lovers card, that type

35:07

of embodied embodied energy. Mmm, gorgeous,

35:09

gorgeous. And so once you put

35:12

this sigil out into the world,

35:14

how do you want people to

35:16

use it or how do you

35:18

suggest people incorporate it into their

35:20

own lives? So it has been

35:23

used in so many different ways.

35:25

First thought, I'm just going to

35:27

put this up and people can

35:29

connect with it. Maybe they're going

35:32

to put it on a candle.

35:34

I just need to help people.

35:36

And since then, people have had

35:38

it tattooed on themselves. It's been

35:40

used in protest signs and protection

35:43

for marches. people have carved it

35:45

into, I like to say, appropriate

35:47

places and inappropriate places. And if

35:49

you're wondering what the difference is,

35:51

don't get caught. Exactly. Oh, how

35:54

beautiful. If people want to learn

35:56

how to create their own schedules,

35:58

obviously they can read your books,

36:00

they can take your workshops. Do

36:02

you also ascribe to, I mean,

36:05

when I first was learning about

36:07

schedules, you know, I learned, of

36:09

course, about like Austin and Osman

36:11

Space. I learned that I think

36:13

it's more like chaos magic style

36:16

of like using the letters of

36:18

the phrase you're trying to manifest

36:20

and then distilling that phrase down

36:22

to the consonants and then making

36:24

a sigil out of those letters.

36:27

I'm doing a really clumsy job

36:29

of describing that, but I think.

36:31

And it seems like this is

36:33

a little bit of a different

36:36

method. Is there one method that

36:38

you prefer over another or do

36:40

you think it's just kind of

36:42

whatever works for people? Well, there

36:44

are so many different methods. The

36:47

Sigil-Witchery method is the result of

36:49

me deconstructing something that I've been

36:51

doing in my head for over

36:53

30 years. It really came down

36:55

to people like, how did you

36:58

make that thing, that interesting shape

37:00

symbol thing? And I'm like, oh,

37:02

a sigil. And it doesn't look

37:04

like any sigil I've seen before.

37:06

I'm like, well, this is something

37:09

I've been doing intuitively. Yes, as

37:11

an artist and a witch. And

37:13

I feel like Spare did that

37:15

a lot in his own work,

37:17

because the method that is popularized

37:20

and described, he pretty much, this

37:22

is the evil bastardized shorthand version,

37:24

there's a note in one of

37:26

his books that says, this is

37:28

for my friends who need a

37:31

method for everything. Mm-hmm. Right. Instead

37:33

of being like, well, how did

37:35

you do it? You know that

37:37

type of occultism that's like, show

37:40

me all of your work and

37:42

all the long list of resources.

37:44

And it's like, but sometimes you

37:46

just do the thing. Yes, exactly.

37:48

Some people really want instructions for

37:51

things and they want a recipe,

37:53

but I also think the most

37:55

potent magic is the most personal

37:57

magic. And so people can feel

37:59

really embolden to develop their own

38:02

techniques or adapt these techniques and

38:04

really make it their own, right.

38:06

Absolutely. And I was really surprised

38:08

at how much this blew up

38:10

in that people are so excited

38:13

in connecting to my approach to

38:15

it. And I've reflected that I

38:17

think part of what is especially

38:19

helpful for magical practitioners, particularly witches,

38:21

which is why the book's called

38:24

witchery and not sigil magic is

38:26

that basically if you've done any

38:28

sort of sympathetic magic so you

38:30

know the herbs the candles the

38:32

oils the whistles you're used to

38:35

compiling the stuff and you're putting

38:37

all of these things together to

38:39

create the vision like part of

38:41

the reason why we use the

38:44

stuff or I would say almost

38:46

most of the reason we use

38:48

the stuff is that it helps

38:50

us visualize what we want the

38:52

end result to be the colors

38:55

and the smells and the visuals,

38:57

right? They help us see that

38:59

goal. And the Sigil-Witry method is

39:01

that same type of thing, right?

39:03

You're brainstorming, you're going, I need

39:06

this and I need this and

39:08

I need this, what does that

39:10

look like? So I think that

39:12

works as a cumulative method for

39:14

crafting magic versus a subtractive method,

39:17

which tends to be what the

39:19

sentence structure is, right? You're taking

39:21

a sentence and then you're just

39:23

breaking it down to its parts,

39:25

which doesn't work for I think

39:28

a lot of nervous spicy people

39:30

in particular. You know when you

39:32

think about sculpture right there's some

39:34

sculpture like clay where you add

39:36

to it to make what you

39:39

want in the end something for

39:41

you to use and then there

39:43

are things like carving marble where

39:45

you're chipping away at it. So

39:48

different brains like different processes. Ugh,

39:50

so well said. On that note,

39:52

we're going to take a quick

39:54

break and we'll be right back.

39:56

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42:23

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42:25

my favorite part of the

42:27

holidays are things that are

42:29

a little more low-key I

42:31

love going to the Metropolitan

42:33

Museum of Art and seeing

42:36

all the decorations, and I

42:38

love being cozy at home,

42:40

whether that's celebrating the solstice

42:42

with ritual or just curling

42:44

up to watch terrible Christmas

42:46

movies and eat Chinese food

42:48

and drink some hot cocoa.

42:50

It just makes me really

42:52

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42:54

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out all of that social

42:58

extrovert time. What moments and

43:00

things make you feel happy

43:02

and cozy at home during

43:04

December? Maybe you like to

43:06

bake, and if you do,

43:08

please send me some cookies.

43:10

The more chocolate, the better.

43:12

And if there's some peanut

43:14

butter added into the chocolate,

43:16

you'll be my favorite person.

43:18

Maybe you like to make

43:20

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43:22

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43:24

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43:28

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43:30

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47:22

to witchwave podcast.com/shop. Welcome back

47:24

to the witchwave. Today I'm

47:26

speaking with Laura Tempest Zachroth.

47:28

So I want to switch

47:30

gears a little bit and

47:32

shift us into a project

47:34

of yours which is also

47:36

about magical resistance. And this

47:38

is a project where you

47:40

are essentially resurrecting or honoring

47:42

the goddess Aradia or we

47:44

might call her Aradia if

47:46

we're pronouncing it in the

47:48

British traditional format. you have

47:50

a movement that you're part

47:52

of or a project that

47:54

you have co-founded called We

47:56

Are Aradia, and you have

47:58

a series of books, first

48:00

starting with the new Aradia,

48:02

a witch's handbook to magical

48:04

resistance. Before we talk about

48:06

this project, I think we

48:08

should root people in who

48:10

aradia or aradia. is or

48:12

was. I'm a huge fan.

48:14

She's come up on the

48:16

show before, but let's give

48:18

people a little bit of

48:20

context here. So tell us

48:22

about the goddess Aradia. Sure,

48:24

so we can't talk about

48:26

her without bringing up Charles

48:28

Leland who published the work

48:30

Aradia and the Gospel of

48:32

the Witches in 1899, a

48:34

good old Philadelphia folklorist, many

48:36

other works out there that

48:38

are good references, and essentially

48:40

he was working on collecting

48:42

folklore throughout Italy, what he

48:44

believed was remnants of a

48:46

witchcraft movement. And that has

48:48

been somewhat of a contestuous

48:50

thing within the witchcraft slash

48:52

pagan community for several decades

48:54

at least. But essentially within

48:56

the book, which has a

48:58

lot of different types of

49:00

magical workings and rituals included

49:02

into it, is the idea

49:04

that the goddess Diana sent

49:06

her daughter to Earth to

49:08

teach the people witchcraft, that

49:10

they were being oppressed, and

49:12

this is a way to

49:15

fight back against your oppressors.

49:17

As an interesting side note,

49:19

I had a professor at

49:21

Brown University who actually proved

49:23

the existence of Leland's source.

49:25

Really? So Madelana actually did

49:27

exist and in the Phoenix

49:29

publishing edition that was released

49:31

in the late 90s, that's

49:33

Robert Matheson, and talks about

49:35

that. So people are like,

49:37

this is all just, you

49:39

know, fake law. And I'm

49:41

like, actually, some of this

49:43

did exist. And I know

49:45

other folks have found research.

49:47

That's a whole wonderful rabbit

49:49

hole to go down if

49:51

you're nerdy in that. Yes,

49:53

yes, and just again to

49:55

catch the listeners up as

49:57

we're sort of talking around

49:59

there has been debate as

50:01

to whether or not this

50:03

was some form of like

50:05

traditional Italian witchcraft or if

50:07

it's something that Godfrey just

50:09

kind of like made up

50:11

and you're saying yes indeed

50:13

he did actually speak to

50:15

someone in Italy who like

50:17

told him this tale and

50:19

this magic, because a lot

50:21

of people were debating that

50:23

his source was even real.

50:25

They thought maybe this was

50:27

all bullshit. So that's fascinating.

50:29

I'm so interested to hear

50:31

that. Nonetheless, you make the

50:33

point in the intro to

50:35

the new aradia that it

50:37

kind of doesn't matter if

50:39

it's fake lore or folklore,

50:41

because it's gone on, you

50:43

know, for the last 100

50:45

and what would that be

50:47

25 years to inspire. So

50:49

many modern witches, it became

50:51

a real foundational text which

50:53

spun off into various Wicca

50:55

and Wiccan practices and, you

50:57

know, the charge of the

50:59

goddess by Doreen Valiente to

51:01

name, you know, but one

51:03

example of that is a

51:05

lot of the language is

51:07

derived from a radio gospel

51:09

of witches. It's really also

51:11

become this text that's inspired

51:13

this of witches as being

51:15

these marginal figures who are

51:17

here to use their magic

51:19

to overthrow tyranny, correct? Yes,

51:21

right. And the we are

51:23

Radia movement taps into while

51:25

the story has a very

51:28

saviour-esque aspect to it, which

51:30

people are like, oh, it's

51:32

just another recycled saviour story,

51:34

the point for us nowadays

51:36

is that there is no

51:38

one coming to save us.

51:40

It is us. We are

51:42

the witches. It's up to

51:44

us to do the work,

51:46

to teach other people, to

51:48

engage and create community. and

51:50

do what we need to

51:52

do. That's the big shift

51:54

is yes, we're going to

51:56

take this as inspiration and

51:58

now we're going to put

52:00

it into something where it

52:02

is action oriented. Yes, and

52:04

in the original text, a

52:06

radio essentially is supposed to

52:08

teach the people witchcraft, teach

52:10

them magic, and spells, and

52:12

rituals to fortify their own

52:14

spirits, but also to, I

52:16

mean, to really fuck with

52:18

the people who are fucking

52:20

with them, right? Right. It's

52:22

a thing about witchcraft, and

52:24

people are like, witchcraft isn't

52:26

political. Like, well, first, yes.

52:28

You know, anything can do

52:30

with the body is a

52:32

political statement. Also, it is

52:34

the tool of the marginalized,

52:36

the disenfranchised, for folks who

52:38

have no other means to

52:40

affect change through what we

52:42

consider the regular mundane avenues.

52:44

Exactly. So you were inspired

52:46

by this text from 1999

52:48

and I understand that you

52:50

read, was it a tweet

52:52

by Storm Fairy Wolf, is

52:54

that right? And that's what

52:56

kind of sparked this for

52:58

you. I'd love to hear

53:00

more of the origin story

53:02

of this movement. Yeah, so

53:04

back in the day when

53:06

there was Twitter. R-I-P, R-I-P.

53:08

Gosh. Anyway, we were having

53:10

the discussion about what do

53:12

we do next? And the

53:14

response to that was, because

53:16

I think had said something

53:18

like, we need an aradia.

53:20

Like, nope, that's us. We're

53:22

the witches. We are aradia.

53:24

And then boom. Like, wait,

53:26

this is a thing. This

53:28

is where we need to,

53:30

you know, get focused and

53:32

get energized on it. And

53:34

then here we go. Yeah.

53:36

It's grown into. It was

53:38

like a hashtag, right? We

53:41

are aradia that people were

53:43

retweeting and so on. Yes.

53:45

And I missed it. This

53:47

was like the first time

53:49

Trump was Yes, it was

53:51

I want to say it

53:53

was early 2017. Right. So

53:55

like around the inauguration. Right.

53:57

And so once you kind

53:59

of seized on this language,

54:01

this we are aradia, what

54:03

did that spark you to

54:05

actually do? Creating different approaches

54:07

for folks to consider magical

54:09

resistance. Yeah, it started off

54:11

with posting rituals and getting

54:13

into sigil work for that

54:15

and creating a website and

54:17

collecting resources on different kinds

54:19

of magical resistance work. And

54:21

that evolved into the new

54:23

aradia. So I was talking

54:25

with Jen's Art from Revolar

54:27

Press and I'm like, I

54:29

have a crazy idea. And

54:31

Jen is always game for

54:33

my crazy ideas, because we

54:35

are two very, very busy

54:37

beings. But you know what?

54:39

This is important. So we're

54:41

going to shift focus and

54:43

make this happen. So the

54:45

new aradia is an anthology

54:47

of different types of magical

54:49

resistance work from, I think,

54:51

I want to say, two

54:53

dozen or up to 30

54:55

different practitioners from around the

54:57

world. And that was released

54:59

in time for the 2018.

55:01

mid-term elections. And this book

55:03

contains rituals, poems, spells, from

55:05

all these different practitioners to

55:07

do what exactly. So there's

55:09

workings in there for justice,

55:11

for connecting to your own

55:13

personal energy and spirit, you

55:15

know, to engage in that

55:17

because some people need

55:19

I think we

55:21

all we all

55:23

fortifying to do

55:25

this kind

55:27

of work. You

55:29

can't do

55:31

it in a

55:33

vacuum in a vacuum.

55:35

And you you

55:37

have to be

55:39

able to

55:41

take care of

55:43

yourself before

55:45

you can take

55:47

care of

55:49

other people. Also

55:51

there's responding

55:54

to different issues

55:56

like the

55:58

border which is is

56:00

about border

56:02

issues at the

56:04

time. Protecting

56:06

home and family

56:08

and community with

56:10

the with the

56:12

housing crisis

56:14

like different herbs

56:16

that you

56:18

could use to

56:20

heal and

56:22

to do different

56:24

types of

56:26

work. to say a, I hate to

56:28

say holistic, because there isn't a lot of

56:30

baggage with that word, but it is, it's

56:32

a whole vision of vision do as of what do

56:34

we need to do as a a It's

56:36

not just, here's a bunch of hexes. hexes. Something

56:39

I really appreciate about your approach,

56:41

particularly in this book and the

56:43

books to follow in the series,

56:45

is that you do make the

56:47

point like, do okay, you still

56:49

have to vote. you You still have

56:51

to you still up in protest know,

56:54

donate your money or do the

56:56

mundane material things. material

56:58

are also, then, all

57:00

of these magical approaches that

57:03

can help, as you said,

57:05

fortify your spirit and and help

57:07

other people. And there are lots

57:09

of different magical approaches here.

57:11

You know, there's everything from how

57:13

to make a piece everything things

57:15

that are oil to of getting

57:17

a little closer to the a little

57:19

hexing kind of realm. kind I've

57:21

said this on the show

57:23

before. on the I think it merits

57:25

talking about, again, about first of

57:27

all, there's... There's no one way

57:29

to do this. this. I'm I'm paraphrasing Diane

57:31

Duprema, a poet and a witch

57:33

that I bring up a lot.

57:35

I love her work. May she

57:37

rest in poetry. And she

57:39

has this great phrase, and

57:42

it's something to the effect of

57:44

to the we have to kind

57:46

of approach change from all sides.

57:48

all We have to surround it.

57:50

it. There's no one method that

57:52

will. the the change we

57:54

want. We need all the methods,

57:56

right? And And so, I

57:58

really appreciate that book. these different

58:01

approaches. Yes, there's piece oil, but

58:03

then there's really a lot harsher

58:05

shit. And, you know, that's something

58:07

I've had to unpack myself as

58:09

a witch and a public witch

58:12

in particular, which is I have

58:14

been one of those witches who's

58:16

like, well, I don't hex, I

58:18

don't curse, that's not the kind

58:21

of magic I do. Most witches

58:23

are very nice. We're not trying.

58:25

to hurt people, you know, try

58:27

to give the PR to essentially

58:29

say like we're not diabolical evil

58:32

people who are trying to hurt

58:34

other people. And I still believe

58:36

that to a large degree and

58:38

yet it's been pointed out to

58:41

me many times now over the

58:43

years that I have a certain

58:45

amount of privilege, you know, by

58:47

being a white person and different

58:49

markers of class that I hold,

58:52

that means that it's probably easier

58:54

for me to get justice through

58:56

traditional means compared to other people.

58:58

And let's say also like I'm

59:00

a woman, I'm a Jewish person,

59:03

so there are other ways in

59:05

which I am less likely to

59:07

get justice. And so those people

59:09

then may choose to turn to

59:12

harsher versions of magic. Am I

59:14

correct in that's also kind of

59:16

like your attitude when it comes

59:18

to magical resistance? So

59:21

I think it comes down

59:23

to is that we tend

59:25

to have a very black

59:27

and white look at magic.

59:29

This healing stuff is good,

59:31

hexing stuff is bad, right?

59:33

But there is healing work

59:35

that can be incredibly damaging.

59:37

Imagine somebody needing to pass

59:39

on, but you're like, no,

59:41

I just want them to

59:43

be healed. Like, no, they

59:45

need to pass on. I

59:47

feel like the main thing

59:50

is we're like, we're playing

59:52

with the ocean here. You

59:54

can either ride the wave,

59:56

you can dive underneath the

59:58

wave, you can get knocked

1:00:00

over by the wave. It's

1:00:02

like, what kind of situation

1:00:04

are you looking at? And

1:00:06

when we are considering justice

1:00:08

work, we're often doing protection

1:00:10

work with that. hoping that

1:00:12

there is some sort of

1:00:14

restorative justice in social work

1:00:16

that's happening with it. So

1:00:18

any particular working often has

1:00:20

a whole breadeth of different

1:00:22

layers to it. I think

1:00:24

if we can get rid

1:00:26

of the binary of like,

1:00:28

is this good or is

1:00:30

this bad? And who's a

1:00:32

good and who's bad for?

1:00:34

Right? That's another thing. Then

1:00:36

we can realize that how

1:00:38

we approach these ideas can

1:00:41

truly bring about effective results,

1:00:43

often with the least amount

1:00:45

of harm. I don't tend

1:00:47

to support the large hexing

1:00:49

of big, you know, major

1:00:51

public figures, not because it's

1:00:53

a wrong thing. But I

1:00:55

don't find it that effective.

1:00:57

I mean, clearly, right? And

1:00:59

honestly, I'm sorry to cut

1:01:01

you off, but that's something

1:01:03

I'm really grappling with. And

1:01:05

I imagine a lot of

1:01:07

witches are, which is there

1:01:09

have been lots and lots

1:01:11

and lots of very public

1:01:13

spells to bind Trump and

1:01:15

all of these things. And

1:01:17

I'm like, well, did the

1:01:19

magic fail? Is there just

1:01:21

like a much bigger reason

1:01:23

why he was elected again

1:01:25

so we can once and

1:01:27

for all really? and that

1:01:29

kind of toxicity, I'm really

1:01:31

grappling with like how effective

1:01:34

a lot of those spells

1:01:36

have been. When you consider

1:01:38

that the GOP has been

1:01:40

on this path for a

1:01:42

good 40 to 50 years,

1:01:44

right? All these people that

1:01:46

are in the government now

1:01:48

that we're looking at as

1:01:50

dubious figures, they were in

1:01:52

their local elections going back

1:01:54

10, 20, 30, 40 years

1:01:56

ago. And a lot of

1:01:58

more progressive folks, we kind

1:02:00

of stepped out of being

1:02:02

active in those places. And

1:02:04

if we adopt the same

1:02:06

strategy, which is one of

1:02:08

the most healthy strategies of

1:02:10

being invested what happens in

1:02:12

our own backyard instead of

1:02:14

what's happening just at the

1:02:16

top of the ticket. how

1:02:18

you start a movement is

1:02:20

focusing on your own backyard

1:02:22

and your personal sphere of

1:02:24

influence there's so much to

1:02:27

be concerned about right yes

1:02:29

pick a card any card

1:02:31

yeah like you can't solve

1:02:33

all the problems but let's

1:02:35

say you're very focused either

1:02:37

on like the issue of

1:02:39

health care the issue of

1:02:41

the Department of Education going

1:02:43

away then you set your

1:02:45

sights on those and how

1:02:47

do you bolster those right

1:02:49

how do you gain support

1:02:51

and energy and educate people

1:02:53

about those concepts so that

1:02:55

it does matter to them

1:02:57

and put that creative energy

1:02:59

into it versus trying to

1:03:01

destroy something on top that

1:03:03

it's going to basically swatch

1:03:05

you away like a mosquito.

1:03:07

But I can affect what's

1:03:09

happening in my local school

1:03:11

councils and I can write

1:03:13

to my local representatives and

1:03:15

show up in their offices.

1:03:18

You know, saying everybody can

1:03:20

do that because I understand

1:03:22

that everyone has that ability

1:03:24

or in the situation to

1:03:26

do that. But realizing what

1:03:28

is your spirit of influence?

1:03:30

How can you directly affect

1:03:32

that? That's where I think

1:03:34

the most amount of powerful

1:03:36

work is needed right now,

1:03:38

and that's where we create

1:03:40

the change in the future

1:03:42

that we want. It starts

1:03:44

right at our feet. I

1:03:46

love that. On that note,

1:03:48

we're going to take another

1:03:50

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1:03:52

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podcast. slash shop. Welcome back

1:09:00

to the witch wave. Today

1:09:02

I'm speaking with Laura Tempest

1:09:04

Zakroth. So Laura you were

1:09:06

talking about how one of

1:09:08

the most powerful things any

1:09:10

of us can do, witches

1:09:12

or otherwise, is to really

1:09:14

focus locally, to focus in

1:09:16

our own backyard. And I

1:09:18

think that's really wise advice.

1:09:20

I also think this that

1:09:22

you know the GOP got

1:09:25

to where they are because

1:09:27

they played a very very

1:09:29

long game is another thing

1:09:31

that helps me when I'm

1:09:33

feeling despair you know where

1:09:35

it's this idea that like

1:09:37

okay you know we might

1:09:39

have I mean I hate

1:09:41

using military language but what

1:09:43

I was going to say

1:09:45

is we might have lost

1:09:47

the battle, but we haven't

1:09:49

lost the war kind of

1:09:51

thing. You know, this is

1:09:53

a very, very long game.

1:09:55

We are fighting not just

1:09:57

for tomorrow, but we're fighting

1:09:59

for future generations. This is

1:10:01

a huge setback this recent

1:10:03

election, but it doesn't mean

1:10:05

that this is the end.

1:10:07

And we can certainly plant

1:10:09

lots and lots of seeds

1:10:11

and do lots of cultivation

1:10:13

to try to make sure

1:10:16

that generations from now, things

1:10:18

have improved, right? Yes, essentially

1:10:20

within this kind of structure

1:10:22

that we're facing is they

1:10:24

want you to despair, they

1:10:26

want you to lose hope

1:10:28

and just give in and

1:10:30

be like, oh well, that

1:10:32

doesn't fly, you know, and

1:10:34

we have to remember that

1:10:36

really when we look at

1:10:38

the numbers, if, you know,

1:10:40

the numbers are accurate, that

1:10:42

only 30% voted for this

1:10:44

of the total country. Right.

1:10:46

So. that means there's at

1:10:48

least you know 60 hopefully

1:10:50

70% that's like not on

1:10:52

my dime right you know

1:10:54

not on my watch and

1:10:56

definitely setting that resistance and

1:10:58

resilience in motion that we

1:11:00

stop it so it doesn't

1:11:02

go any further and then

1:11:04

we start doing what is

1:11:06

necessary to change the structure

1:11:09

because I think we can

1:11:11

all, you know, argue back

1:11:13

and forth and discuss endlessly

1:11:15

about like how could this

1:11:17

all be better anyway outside

1:11:19

of that situation? How do

1:11:21

we have a government that

1:11:23

represents more people? How do

1:11:25

we have better housing and

1:11:27

health care and, you know,

1:11:29

rights for everybody? Right. And

1:11:31

circling back to an earlier

1:11:33

point, we were talking about,

1:11:35

you know, it takes all

1:11:37

different kinds of magic, all

1:11:39

different kinds of skills. If

1:11:41

you are someone listening and

1:11:43

you're like. don't feel comfortable

1:11:45

with the hexing type magic,

1:11:47

then you don't have to

1:11:49

do it. We need lots

1:11:51

of protecting magic and love

1:11:53

magic and peace magic, right?

1:11:55

Yes, there's another thing I

1:11:57

was talking about to say,

1:11:59

because someone's like, oh, that's,

1:12:02

you know, could sound like

1:12:04

love and light, like love,

1:12:06

like a mama bear, protecting

1:12:08

her cubs, don't ever denigrate

1:12:10

love as not being something

1:12:12

that's powerful. Love is fierce.

1:12:14

Absolutely fierce. It's the driving

1:12:16

force. We'll go off into

1:12:18

like quoting Star Wars in

1:12:20

a moment if we keep

1:12:22

going on that way. Love

1:12:24

overcomes those fears and it

1:12:26

can be a huge driving

1:12:28

force when it's absolutely love,

1:12:30

right? And light can be

1:12:32

something that burns. It illuminates.

1:12:34

It can be something that

1:12:36

shows where the truth is.

1:12:38

It can sear things. We'd

1:12:40

get to this dismissive language

1:12:42

about love and hope and

1:12:44

joy as though there's just

1:12:46

sort of easy things, but

1:12:48

you know, it's not easy

1:12:50

to love or hope or

1:12:53

to have joy. It can

1:12:55

be a battle worth fighting.

1:12:57

You said it. So I've

1:12:59

been raving about the new

1:13:01

aradia, a witch's handbook to

1:13:03

magical resistance, and I've been

1:13:05

recommending it for a long

1:13:07

time. But I understand that

1:13:09

you have two follow-up offerings

1:13:11

in that series. So can

1:13:13

you tell us about them?

1:13:15

Yes. So the second book

1:13:17

is The Gorgen's Guide to

1:13:19

Magical Resistance, which was released

1:13:21

in 2022. I love a

1:13:23

Gorgen. Who doesn't love a

1:13:25

Gorgen? Right? It's like, hmm.

1:13:27

I adore a Gorgin. You

1:13:29

have the best hair. I

1:13:31

focused on this book as

1:13:33

being a little bit more

1:13:35

grittier, right? This is a

1:13:37

little darker, a little more

1:13:39

grittier, a little bit more

1:13:41

focused on queer and reproductive

1:13:43

and trans rights and really

1:13:46

kind of digging into that

1:13:48

kind of Gorgin anger. Medusa

1:13:50

rage. and to really be

1:13:52

inspired by that, but still

1:13:54

not all, like here you

1:13:56

have to go put pins

1:13:58

in somebody, it's still the

1:14:00

holistic view of how do

1:14:02

you protect, how do you

1:14:04

get clarity of message for

1:14:06

things for your divination, and

1:14:08

continue to build strength, right?

1:14:10

There's still a whole different

1:14:12

variety of workings that you

1:14:14

can tap into for that

1:14:16

one. And then. And then...

1:14:18

But wait, there's more. The

1:14:20

book that just came out

1:14:22

is Serpents of Searcy, a

1:14:24

manual to magical resilience. So

1:14:26

each of these books have

1:14:28

been one of those kind

1:14:30

of creations where, whether you

1:14:32

want to call it gods,

1:14:34

the muses, the spirits, the

1:14:36

ancestors, whatever, just go poke.

1:14:39

poke, poke, poke. This is

1:14:41

what needs to get done.

1:14:43

And you know, fine. And

1:14:45

when it came to creating

1:14:47

this and I got the

1:14:49

idea that this is about

1:14:51

magical resilience, and it was

1:14:53

like, well, in the fall,

1:14:55

this can go one of

1:14:57

two ways. But regardless of

1:14:59

how we think it's going

1:15:01

to go, we've had two

1:15:03

books on resistance. Now, how

1:15:05

do we build resilience within

1:15:07

our community? And how do

1:15:09

we remember how to build

1:15:11

the community we want? through

1:15:13

coalition and creativity and that

1:15:15

type of energy. So whether

1:15:17

the election had gone the

1:15:19

way we wanted it to,

1:15:21

we're, you know, prepared to

1:15:23

build that kind of community

1:15:25

or to get us through

1:15:27

the darkest times, both of

1:15:30

those things. Yes. And how

1:15:32

do you define resilience versus

1:15:34

resistance in this context? Oh

1:15:36

yeah, and no, resilience is also

1:15:38

one of those words where folks

1:15:41

are like, I love the word

1:15:43

resilience. It's got a thing too,

1:15:45

right? There's a bounce to it.

1:15:47

To me, resilience is to stand

1:15:49

up regardless of, you know, what

1:15:51

we're facing and to hold on

1:15:54

to those ideas of joy and

1:15:56

hope and action. not only survive

1:15:58

but to thrive, that fortitude that

1:16:00

we need to hold ourselves and

1:16:02

each other up, where resistance is

1:16:04

often about holding the line, right?

1:16:07

It can be about offensive and

1:16:09

defensive works. How do we protect

1:16:11

where we're at, what we have

1:16:13

already got, but how do we

1:16:15

push the line forward? So that

1:16:18

tends to be more of an

1:16:20

external type of energy where I

1:16:22

feel like resilience starts within and

1:16:24

then works its way out. Oh,

1:16:26

I love that. And I think

1:16:28

we could all use some resilience

1:16:31

and inner fortification right now. That's

1:16:33

for sure. And it sounds like

1:16:35

you just experienced that with that

1:16:37

Persephone's ball you attended. I experienced

1:16:39

that with my artist witchy friends

1:16:41

this past week. So what kinds

1:16:44

of spells and rituals and writings

1:16:46

can we find in this new

1:16:48

book? So this one, and I

1:16:50

have to give a shout out,

1:16:52

so for this particular book, Ron

1:16:55

Padron is my co-editor for this.

1:16:57

I like to say to Ron,

1:16:59

like, this is your fault. Because

1:17:01

where I was like, you did

1:17:03

that post, you know, like, what

1:17:05

if there was a whole book

1:17:08

on that? Like, oh, oh, we're

1:17:10

going for this. Yep, yep. So

1:17:12

with this one, we're still looking

1:17:14

at different elements of protection and

1:17:16

fortification, but a lot of transformation,

1:17:19

right, when you think about Cerci

1:17:21

and the powers of Cerci goes

1:17:23

to transformation and transmutation, and you

1:17:25

think of Cerci on her own

1:17:27

island doing her own thing, right?

1:17:29

It helps us to shift that

1:17:32

perspective and to call upon the

1:17:34

energies to inspire us and to

1:17:36

continue to light that fire. So

1:17:38

that's why I feel like those

1:17:40

workings bring that in. So beautiful.

1:17:42

And we should say that proceeds

1:17:45

from each of these books, you

1:17:47

split some of it to support

1:17:49

different non-profits, correct? Yes. Each one

1:17:51

has gone to at least two

1:17:53

different kinds of non-profits. I'm going

1:17:56

to having a moment of like,

1:17:58

great, which ones? Because I've got

1:18:00

three books. You could just name

1:18:02

whatever one's come to your mind.

1:18:04

So I knew with the new

1:18:06

Radia, we had the Southern Poverty

1:18:09

Law Center and Emily's list. So

1:18:11

those two major organizations with Gorgin's

1:18:13

guide, we have a rotating list

1:18:15

that goes on both international and

1:18:17

national or local groups. So one

1:18:19

has to do with fertility rights,

1:18:22

reproductive rights. within Appalachia and other

1:18:24

one is about indigenous women's movement.

1:18:26

And then with Serpents of Searcy,

1:18:28

the two organizations is Feeding America,

1:18:30

which is the largest charity working

1:18:33

to end hunger in the United

1:18:35

States, and Sin's Invalid, which is

1:18:37

a disability justice performance project that

1:18:39

centers people of color, queer, non-binary,

1:18:41

and trans people with disabilities. So

1:18:43

fabulous. So for those listening, when

1:18:46

you buy these books, not only

1:18:48

are you generating potentially your own

1:18:50

magical spellcraft to help become more

1:18:52

resistant or more resilient and emanating

1:18:54

that out on the spiritual realm,

1:18:57

you are also literally supporting with

1:18:59

your dollars and your financial energy.

1:19:01

these really, really wonderful causes. So

1:19:03

I think that was important to

1:19:05

get out too. And I just

1:19:07

love that aspect of this project.

1:19:10

Now, we just have a few

1:19:12

minutes left, but I wanted to

1:19:14

circle back on something you said

1:19:16

earlier, which is anything to do

1:19:18

with the body is political. And

1:19:20

I know a lot of your

1:19:23

work centers on the body. You

1:19:25

know, I'm very fond of saying

1:19:27

that witchcraft is an embodied practice.

1:19:29

It's not just about the spiritual

1:19:31

realm. It's also about our physicality

1:19:34

and our feelings and our sensations

1:19:36

and the energy of our body.

1:19:38

Why is the body such an

1:19:40

important vessel for you when it

1:19:42

comes to your identity as a

1:19:44

witch? body as our most important

1:19:47

primary magical tool. My practice tends

1:19:49

to be very ecstatic. And when

1:19:51

I was, you know, first witchling,

1:19:53

figuring this out, the folks I

1:19:55

was working with, we all ended

1:19:58

up taking some dance classes. And

1:20:00

I'm like, oh, what if we

1:20:02

brought this into ritual? And we

1:20:04

did, and the results were profound.

1:20:06

Going from these very, you know,

1:20:08

strict line out, we're going to

1:20:11

make a note about everything we're

1:20:13

going to do in this ritual

1:20:15

versus like, let's just let it

1:20:17

flow. Let's see how we interact

1:20:19

with each other. How do we

1:20:21

move? People still talk about those

1:20:24

rituals like 30 years after the

1:20:26

fact. They're like, wow, okay. And

1:20:28

as someone who is a professional

1:20:30

dancer as well, I see the

1:20:32

conversations that can happen that are

1:20:35

expressed in ways that aren't just

1:20:37

what we're saying with our voices,

1:20:39

right? It is that deeper subconscious

1:20:41

communication between the performer and the

1:20:43

audience and the same thing happens

1:20:45

with ritual. It can also be

1:20:48

a vessel for connecting to the

1:20:50

divine and when we embody our

1:20:52

practice and recognize that we can

1:20:54

lean into our body for our

1:20:56

practice to create something that is

1:20:58

the most authentic to ourselves because

1:21:01

it can help us. connect to

1:21:03

first our magic, the power that

1:21:05

we have to influence ourselves in

1:21:07

the world around us. To me,

1:21:09

it's like the wind, it's like

1:21:12

air. You're breathing right now. You're

1:21:14

not thinking about breathing. If you

1:21:16

see the wind moving in the

1:21:18

trees, you don't really see the

1:21:20

wind, you see the effects of

1:21:22

the wind. right? And you can

1:21:25

center that in your lungs. You

1:21:27

can look at your heart as

1:21:29

a way of tapping into ritual

1:21:31

and the rhythm of the universe.

1:21:33

You can learn to trust your

1:21:36

intuition and realize on that everything

1:21:38

is going to be coming from

1:21:40

your head, but how you feel

1:21:42

things with the whole of your

1:21:44

body because all of your organs

1:21:46

are thinking that our bones themselves

1:21:49

are the structure and the foundation

1:21:51

that hold us up. And it's

1:21:53

also the ancestors and the fact

1:21:55

that we eat, drink, and breathe

1:21:57

of the land, we are also

1:21:59

part of the land's story. And

1:22:02

then we finally get to our

1:22:04

brains. I kind of put our

1:22:06

brains as often like, when it

1:22:08

comes to witchcraft, try to think

1:22:10

with the whole of your body

1:22:13

before you engage your brain because

1:22:15

our brains like to lie to

1:22:17

us. Mmm, mmm. Oh, when you

1:22:19

were talking about just all the

1:22:21

different aspects of our bodies, like

1:22:23

I literally felt my body enliven,

1:22:26

even just resenturing my own focus

1:22:28

right now from my head to

1:22:30

the rest of my body, felt

1:22:32

really delightful. So thank you for

1:22:34

that reminder. You're welcome. An idea

1:22:36

that I've really brought out to

1:22:39

connecting with magical resistance in the

1:22:41

last week is the idea of

1:22:43

the embodied divine. And that is

1:22:45

instead of looking outside of ourselves

1:22:47

to the externalized divine, which is

1:22:50

great, like that's great in your

1:22:52

own personal practice. But if you

1:22:54

are able to see yourself as

1:22:56

part of the divine essence and

1:22:58

being rooted in your body, that

1:23:00

makes it easier for you to

1:23:03

recognize the divinity of the people

1:23:05

around us, when it comes to

1:23:07

magical resistance work to realize that

1:23:09

we're not just working for, even

1:23:11

though we might be focused on

1:23:14

one cause, that all of these

1:23:16

problems that we're facing are interwoven,

1:23:18

the issues of education, the issues

1:23:20

of class, the issues of health

1:23:22

care. of reproductive rights, you can't

1:23:24

leave one group behind. So recognizing

1:23:27

that we are all in this

1:23:29

together and that's how we form

1:23:31

a coalition, that's the idea of

1:23:33

the embodied divine, which I think

1:23:35

is an important idea to lead

1:23:37

in doing magical resistance work. Oh,

1:23:40

yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. Thank you

1:23:42

for that. Well, listen, I could

1:23:44

talk to you for years, and

1:23:46

I hope that I will. I

1:23:48

hope this is the first of

1:23:51

many conversations. As we wind down,

1:23:53

I would love for you to

1:23:55

actually read something you wrote. Okay.

1:23:57

This is the charge of the

1:23:59

new aradia. this is a piece

1:24:01

that is published both in the

1:24:04

book, The New Aradia, and I've

1:24:06

seen it on blogs and other

1:24:08

things that you've posted online. So

1:24:10

it's very easy for people to

1:24:12

find, and it is so beautiful.

1:24:14

So please, please, if you would

1:24:17

read this, I would be so

1:24:19

honored. I'm happy to. Thank you.

1:24:21

The charge of the New Aradia.

1:24:24

When sense and world have

1:24:26

parted ways, Whenever need is

1:24:28

great and dire, In brightest

1:24:30

sun or moon's dark phase,

1:24:32

Bring forth will to light

1:24:34

the fire. Send down the

1:24:37

roots, raise up your arms,

1:24:39

Call for spirit, and summon

1:24:41

its charms, With wand and

1:24:43

cauldron, stang and knife, With

1:24:45

cloak and horn and lure

1:24:47

of wife. Build your wisdom

1:24:49

and bide your time in

1:24:52

eyes of heart and blood

1:24:54

sweet wine. In city and

1:24:56

wood, gather still to protect

1:24:58

and guide with our will.

1:25:00

Now is the time to

1:25:02

heed the call, which is

1:25:04

together, one and all. In

1:25:07

our truth we know the

1:25:09

power, that our voice brings

1:25:11

down the tower. To banish

1:25:13

cleanse, bless, heal, and guide,

1:25:15

with our secrets and Sabbath

1:25:17

ride, it's the hour to

1:25:19

change the tides, for now

1:25:22

as witches, we all rise.

1:25:24

Ah, yes, so, moat it be!

1:25:27

I love it so much. And

1:25:29

I just love talking to you.

1:25:31

I am so inspired by you.

1:25:33

I am so fortified by this

1:25:36

conversation and I can't thank you

1:25:38

enough. Before we go, is there

1:25:40

anything that you want to plug,

1:25:43

mention, let people know in terms

1:25:45

of how they can reach you,

1:25:47

work with you, etc. I've got

1:25:49

a couple things. First, we are

1:25:52

Radia website. We are Radia.org. Just

1:25:54

got a new home and it's

1:25:56

getting new active blogs. folks looking

1:25:59

for resources can go there. You

1:26:01

can follow all of my things.

1:26:03

If you go to Laura Tempuszakroth.com,

1:26:05

that's got my art, my writings,

1:26:08

and other such social media things.

1:26:10

Your sigil's. Yes, it's got a

1:26:12

collection of sigil's. It'll get you

1:26:15

to my Pathos blog, which has

1:26:17

more. And then in coming out

1:26:19

into the world, it's release as

1:26:21

imminent is the sigil wit tree

1:26:24

Oracle. which is an oracle designed

1:26:26

to help folks tap into those

1:26:28

symbols and marks and shapes. Because

1:26:31

having taught sigil witchery to hundreds

1:26:33

of times to thousands of people

1:26:35

now, I realize that people often

1:26:38

have a stumbling block when it

1:26:40

comes to, do I know any

1:26:42

shapes and how do I know

1:26:44

what meanings they are? So I

1:26:47

devised this deck to help people

1:26:49

engage. with these symbols, shapes, and

1:26:51

marks that are prevalent in all

1:26:54

people's lives. It's pretty much universal.

1:26:56

And how to use them not

1:26:58

only to craft sizzles, but to

1:27:00

create ritual, to create movement, and

1:27:03

really build up your creativity and

1:27:05

your imagination, which helps with magic.

1:27:07

Ah, glorious! Well, listen, I cannot

1:27:10

recommend your books more highly. I

1:27:12

cannot recommend your artwork and your

1:27:14

sigil's and your magical activism more

1:27:16

highly. I just admire you so

1:27:19

much. Thank you so much for

1:27:21

being here on the witch wave,

1:27:23

Laura Tempest Zachroth. Thank you, Pam,

1:27:26

so much. Happy to talk to

1:27:28

you any time. That's

1:27:30

it for the show. Thank

1:27:32

you again to Laura Tempest

1:27:35

Zakrov for sharing her magical

1:27:37

activism and activating art magic.

1:27:39

Do you have questions, feedback,

1:27:41

need some witchly advice, or

1:27:43

just want to share something

1:27:45

magical that happened to you

1:27:47

recently? Drop us an email

1:27:49

or voice message over at

1:27:51

witchwave podcast@gmail.com. We'd love to

1:27:53

hear from you and you

1:27:55

just might make it on

1:27:57

the way. Witchwave is a

1:27:59

a phantasmophile

1:28:01

production written and

1:28:04

produced by

1:28:06

me, by me, Pam This

1:28:09

episode was recorded, was

1:28:11

edited, and mixed

1:28:13

by Josh Wilcox by Josh

1:28:15

Wilcox and or Walter myself.

1:28:18

Our theme music is

1:28:20

the song is the

1:28:22

and hand and by Lycanthea. Our new

1:28:24

witchwave logo designed by by

1:28:26

Thunderwing. thanks go to

1:28:28

to Matt Freeman, Laura Antall, and

1:28:30

C.C.Paskill. You You can

1:28:32

check out information about

1:28:34

this and other

1:28:36

episodes on our website

1:28:38

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1:28:43

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1:28:50

check out my witch emoji going

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1:28:58

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1:29:00

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1:29:02

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1:29:04

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1:29:15

you so much

1:29:17

for listening. listening.

1:29:19

the are the I'll

1:29:21

catch you next time time

1:29:24

on The Witch Wave.