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1:35

Welcome to the Young Man in

1:37

the Three Monday morning, first Monday

1:40

morning, playoff recap presented always

1:42

by our friends at Wonder

1:45

Media and 342 Productions. We

1:47

got a special crew today.

1:49

Dunker spot boys in the building, Mr.

1:52

Trey Murphy, live

1:54

from sunny Miami, about

1:56

the head to PT, getting that shoulder fixed.

1:58

What's up boys? Good

2:03

morning. Good morning. Excited to talk

2:05

some hoops. I'm excited to talk some hoops. Let's

2:07

have some fun, man. This is a crew. We've been

2:09

waiting to get together for a minute. A lot

2:11

of busy people on this chat. Guys,

2:14

I wanted to start. We're

2:16

just going to do quick hitters in all these

2:18

series. I mean, there's a lot of action over

2:20

the weekend. There's a lot of get to dunker

2:22

guys. You guys are obviously going to hit in

2:24

greater detail a lot of this later this week,

2:26

although things are changing so fast. I feel like

2:28

we should just start with the last game of

2:30

last night. Golden

2:32

State, Houston, ugly

2:34

for most of the game. Got a

2:36

little action towards the end. What were

2:38

your initial thoughts? I

2:40

think for me, you got to see what the

2:43

pathway was for Houston. Like you saw how well

2:45

they defended. You saw the physicality off ball. You

2:47

saw a lot of the switching in an effort

2:49

to kind of flatten out what Golden State wanted

2:51

to do. And offensively, you saw a heavy utilization

2:53

of the Alper and Shingoon. And so for me,

2:56

I knew the offense for Houston was going to be

2:58

a question mark heading in. So I want to

3:00

see how they planned on attacking Golden State. You saw

3:02

the shingoon touches, particularly in the middle of the

3:04

floor. You saw them try to invert action a couple

3:06

of times with shingoon and pick and roll. They

3:10

need better from their guards is kind of where

3:12

I start in terms of how aggressive Jalen Green is

3:14

going to be. I liked him getting downhill some,

3:16

but some of those drives were a little bit off

3:18

kilter for him. I think in general, Houston has

3:20

the pressure to paint a little bit more than they

3:22

did. Like even as Shindoon played well, felt like

3:24

he left a little bit on the table with some

3:26

of those free throw line area touches. So if

3:28

he could pressure going to stay a little bit more

3:30

on that front, if Jalen Green could get going,

3:32

more drives from Robin Thompson, you saw him kind of

3:34

perk up towards the end of the game there. I

3:37

think Houston has a little bit more wiggle room

3:39

offensively. The defense was good enough. They just have

3:41

to score more. What

3:43

did you think, Steve? I mean, you saw

3:45

why they put Stephen Curry and Jimmy Butler

3:47

together and the impact they have as far

3:49

as whatever you do defensively, we can find

3:52

a way to score and get our buckets.

3:54

I think it's tricky because in the playoffs, you

3:57

can have these game planes, you can have these adjustments, you

3:59

can have these It can come down

4:01

to one quarter. And that second quarter

4:03

for Houston is where things just fell off the

4:05

rails. They did everything else they wanted

4:07

to in every other quarter. They lose 29

4:09

-13 that second. Now you're uphill climbing. Your

4:12

defense has to go up even higher. You

4:14

got to push and transition and drive. So I

4:16

think that's probably the beauty of the playoffs.

4:18

It's very hard. It's hard to win this time

4:20

of year. I think for Houston, they

4:22

got to drive more. They got to attack

4:24

more. They got to look to attack Golden State's

4:26

defense for Golden State. It's just trying

4:28

to figure out how do we get to what

4:30

we want to do. How do we make Fred Van

4:32

Bley not guard dream on green? How do we

4:35

keep Jimmy Butler as a threat? How do we keep

4:37

stuff as a threat and keep this steady? But

4:39

it's gonna be a slugfest. This is playoff basketball trade.

4:41

This is sub 100s. This is this is this

4:43

this is real hoop. What

4:46

did you think, Trev? No, in

4:48

all honesty, it's just like, like what

4:50

they said before, like Houston did a

4:52

great job defending. It's just got scored

4:54

ball and, you know, it's tough because, you

4:58

know, Golden State

5:00

has been defending a lot better, especially

5:02

with Jimmy back on the team now and

5:04

They're the biggest thing though is like

5:06

Houston side should affect Golden State a lot

5:08

more and one thing I noticed like

5:10

within all the series office rebounding has been

5:12

the biggest key to like a lot

5:14

of games because it's such a possession game

5:16

if you're able to win the office

5:19

of glass then More than likely are able

5:21

to win the game and that was

5:23

something that I've realized since last year like

5:25

last year's playoffs is like who wins

5:27

the possession game normally wins the game because

5:29

it's supposed to be such a low

5:31

possession game. So Houston can be more dominant

5:33

on that side of being like, all

5:35

right, we're just going to win a possession

5:37

game. And hopefully we'll just try and

5:40

neutralize their threes. That'll be like their

5:42

best shot at trying to, you know, win

5:44

the series. I was

5:46

going to ask you guys about about

5:48

Stephen Adams in particular, who's obviously he was

5:50

obviously great last night, wondering if we're

5:52

going to see more of him in the series. It

5:54

does feel like you're going to get a little bit

5:57

of aversion to the. mean with the guards to what

5:59

you're talking about, Nikias, in terms of just getting more

6:01

from them. Is there anything you

6:03

think with this Golden State, with their roster

6:05

right now, sort of makeup wise, that they

6:07

should be doing to keep these guys off

6:09

the glass, 22 offensive rebounds last night? That

6:11

feels like something that will come back to

6:13

haunt them in the series, or could come

6:15

back to haunt them in the series down

6:17

the road. Like, I think

6:19

in a literal sense, Golden State could size

6:21

up if they want to, like they could go

6:23

more Quentin Post, we can see more K 'von

6:25

Looney, but I don't feel, especially after how

6:27

Game 1 ended for them and ultimately looks they

6:29

were able to generate late in that game,

6:31

they're probably okay with it. Like one of the

6:33

things that kept an eye on, Houston went

6:35

double big again and generally had success. Golden

6:37

State goes on, it's like, oh snap, what's going

6:39

on here? And now it's Steven Adams having to make

6:42

decisions in the middle of the floor and some

6:44

of those lineups offensively, and Golden State was okay with

6:46

that. you obviously don't want to give up the

6:48

amount of offensive rebounds you do. I

6:50

think another reason why it probably didn't ding Golden

6:52

State as much, like Houston ended up taking more shots

6:54

because of how they wanted the offensive glass. Houston

6:56

also turned the ball over. And so going

6:58

to state able to get going in transition,

7:00

you kind of neutralize some of the effect that

7:02

that Houston had on the offensive glass. So

7:04

like, I don't think Golden State has to blink

7:06

yet on that front. You don't want to

7:08

repeat of what the offensive glass looked like. But

7:10

ultimately, Houston wasn't comfortable enough in the half

7:12

court, particularly in the second half. to where really

7:14

dinged them. I think we should move on

7:16

just because in the interest of time, we could

7:18

we could talk for hours about all this.

7:20

We're going to move on to the end of

7:23

the game tonight. Nick's Detroit. Wanted

7:27

to get your thoughts from Saturday

7:29

on what you guys saw overall.

7:32

Well, I mean, I think it was just a battle.

7:34

You see the playoff game plan trying to take away

7:36

K kind of him. You see the good playoff game

7:38

plan trying to take away Jalen Brunson. You

7:40

know, but the first half were Tobias Harris has all

7:42

the answers and then O .G. Oh, I know he has

7:44

all the answers. I think for me, it

7:47

showed what the Knicks can be in the

7:49

playoffs as far as their roster. We talked about

7:51

depth, but they are kind of built for this

7:53

time of year. Having Karl -Anthony Townsend

7:55

being aggressive, having the defense have

7:57

to focus on Jalen Brunson and being able to just kind

7:59

of move the ball and then defend on the other

8:01

end. We can do different things. We can go double big,

8:04

put Kat and Mitchell Robinson together. We can kind of

8:06

try and trap Kate a little bit more, put

8:08

two on the ball, make other guys make plays, and then

8:10

they're able to kind of have that surge on the other

8:12

end. So it's like in my head, I was like, Are

8:15

the Knicks better built for the playoffs than the

8:17

regular season? I think that showcases it. I think

8:19

the tough part for Detroit is they've had a

8:21

good year. They've been solid, but they still have

8:23

to learn how to win. They've had to learn

8:25

each stage. And that game one was

8:28

a reminder, okay, we have to be able to know

8:30

how to put these teams away, how to use

8:32

our advantages on both ends of the floor. So I

8:34

think that's kind of where I was at. Yeah,

8:36

I actually got a few

8:38

notes from that game, and

8:41

I would say the biggest. Like

8:44

the biggest thing was the four quarter

8:46

meltdown really like they won the next

8:48

one 21 overrun before the pissing scored

8:50

again and Really it looked like it

8:52

was just layup lines like it wasn't

8:54

even like it was the niggas hitting

8:57

shots like they were Executing they were

8:59

literally just trying to ball over and

9:01

just laying the ball up It was

9:03

literally like a layup line and I

9:05

said to myself the six minute timeout

9:07

from Detroit that they took I said

9:09

there's gonna be where they

9:11

have to figure things out and if

9:13

they're gonna turn this game around

9:15

and win the game and I think

9:17

the Nick scored like three straight

9:19

laps and I said the game's over

9:21

and so Campaign he also played

9:23

phenomenal that last game he brought a

9:25

spark and a lot of energy

9:27

and I think like the biggest thing

9:30

like Steve was saying is like

9:32

people question the next defense throughout the

9:34

whole regular season because they knew

9:36

they were gonna be able to score

9:38

and They locked up especially when

9:40

it mattered and so I think that

9:42

playoff experience was the biggest thing

9:44

that showed was that Detroit wasn't. They

9:46

didn't answer to the next runs

9:48

in the fourth quarter. And the nicks

9:50

are there before they've been in

9:52

playoff games, and they were able to

9:54

respond to, you know, Detroit playing

9:56

well, those first three quarters. Guys,

9:58

how did you think Kate handled the trap? I

10:01

think it was mostly OK. I was more

10:04

curious, and I guess heading into game two, I'm

10:06

more curious to see how Detroit looks to

10:08

move K cutting him around. But I

10:10

think underlying like the matchup thing overall in this game

10:12

was interesting to me. I think during the regular

10:14

season series, Detroit was pretty much static when I have

10:16

Jalen during on whoever the big is to buy

10:18

his hairs, you take a forward, etc. They went with

10:20

the cross match to start this one. And I

10:22

think with New York on the other end saying, hey,

10:24

oh, gee, you take the case assignment. We're actually

10:26

going to ramp up our ball pressure. This is something

10:28

that Steve's been hitting on the pod all year

10:30

long with the nicks. They have defenders. They don't necessarily

10:32

pressure the ball as much as you would like

10:34

for them to. You get that added physicality, that added

10:36

pressure in addition to we're bringing cat up to

10:38

the level. They were able to get

10:40

the ball out of Kate's hands. It didn't feel like Kate

10:42

was flustered by the trap, at least for large portions of that

10:44

game. But I think the New York

10:46

Knicks did a really good job of making sure Kate

10:48

didn't get to a spot. So you saw the

10:50

assists numbers up. Kate never really got going as a

10:52

scorer. So do they sprinkle in lower pick and

10:54

rolls on the floor to try to get them going?

10:57

Do they use other guys' screeners? Do we see

10:59

more of Sar Thompson as a screener? In the second

11:01

games, you can get more of the short role

11:03

playmaking going get him going get him getting going through

11:05

get him more comfortable earlier in the game. Excuse

11:07

me. Those are a couple of

11:09

things that I'm looking for on the Pistons front.

11:11

But I like New York ramping it up. And

11:13

I like that they could also flow into the

11:15

double big look to further shrink the floor and

11:17

kind of their Detroit and there was non -K creators

11:19

to make plays. Steve,

11:22

I want to move to Milwaukee,

11:24

Indy. Nikias and you

11:26

and I were talking about the bucks. I'm

11:34

trying to see what Trey's notes were on

11:36

the bus defense. I

11:43

want to see if you

11:45

can see this right here. Can

11:47

you see? All I put

11:50

was sleeping emoji because I took

11:52

a nap during the game

11:54

because I said I'm not watching

11:56

this. This

11:59

is getting bad. I took a nap because

12:01

literally, Yannis was the only one I wanted

12:03

to play that day. That was it. Yeah.

12:08

Well, my fault, Tommy. Go ahead. I

12:10

want to see you follow up to

12:12

that. He's

12:15

not wrong. I mean, the

12:17

thing is Milwaukee in this series, for them to

12:19

have a chance, the defense has to

12:21

at least have enough. They got to get to a

12:23

certain level. You got to get to a B

12:25

plus defensively. They didn't do any of that. And so

12:27

Giannis had the first half he had, first quarter

12:29

of the year, they couldn't really guard him. The problem

12:31

is, what did that open up for anyone else? No

12:34

one else is making shots and didn't

12:36

necessarily create assists. And on the other end,

12:38

Indiana just refused to cooperate. Whatever Milwaukee

12:41

tried to throw at their defensively zone, Brook

12:43

Lopez, you could switch, Brook Lopez, the

12:45

level, whatever they did, Indiana kept moving

12:47

the ball. And so you saw every

12:49

possession, if they weren't in transition. They

12:52

kept making Milwaukee rotate and eventually Milwaukee

12:54

would run out of rotations and someone

12:56

would be open. They get whatever they

12:58

wanted. And that's where if the Bucks

13:01

can't give enough defense to take those

13:03

away, things open up. And

13:05

so they, Milwaukee has have enough defense to

13:07

keep it close. Hopefully if game's able to

13:09

come back, that will give them another offensive

13:11

threat. So where they can have better flow

13:13

because it felt like, okay, our

13:15

first action, Yannis has something, then we wait.

13:17

We don't have anything else. They can at

13:19

least get something to maybe put some pressure

13:21

on Indiana. But if the Bucks can't defend,

13:23

I don't think this series is really going to have

13:25

a shot. Hey, guys, what do you want to see from

13:27

the from Yanis playmaking? I

13:30

would like for him to have more opportunities to make

13:32

things happen. Like, I think they went a lot more

13:34

four or five pick and roll in this one. We

13:36

saw that perk up overall for the Bucks this regular

13:38

season, but we didn't see them tap into that bag

13:40

a bunch during the regular season series against Indiana. They

13:42

went to more of that. Indy gave

13:45

the mouse Turner switch and early in the game,

13:47

Steve alluded to. Yannis was putting Mouse Turner

13:49

underneath the basket on a lot of those drives.

13:51

But if you're not going to get the

13:53

extra layer of help, or more importantly from Milwaukee,

13:55

when they do get the help, if your

13:57

spacing is out of whack, then you're not

13:59

going to be able to capitalize. You're not going to get the

14:01

Yannis assist opportunities. If when you do create

14:03

the opening, it's not really an opening. Like I

14:05

think back to, I want to say, second or third

14:07

quarter, where they go try to put Tyrese Halliburton

14:09

in action. You know, shout out to

14:11

our guy. Torian Prince goes screen. He slips. They

14:13

botched the coverage. Torrey

14:16

Prince goes to the right wing. Ryan Rollins

14:18

is also standing right next to him. He

14:20

cuts late. And it's just like, well, there's

14:22

your opportunity to get three points and to

14:24

kind of put Indiana in rotation, generate a

14:26

good look. You mess it up. You hit

14:28

Ryan Rollins on the cut, kick the Brook

14:30

Lopez, really good close out for Pascal Siakum,

14:32

kick the Ryan Rollins, another good close out

14:34

for Pascal Siakum. And what should have been

14:36

a wide open three, like seven seconds ago,

14:38

turns it to a contested shot. And Indiana

14:40

once again, blitzes him in transition. So space

14:42

a little bit better. Because Giannis is going

14:44

to generate enough paint pressure. He's going to

14:46

generate enough gravity to you kind of have

14:48

to help. Pascal isn't big enough and Miles

14:50

Turner again was getting moved on those drives.

14:52

You have the avenue of Giannis generating too.

14:55

You got a space better. You got to know where you need

14:57

to be and be ready to capitalize on those opportunities. Trey,

15:00

what's the answer to Nemhart going downhill? I

15:05

mean, you know he's going to hit

15:07

you. You know he's going to hit you.

15:12

It's hard because you know it's funny. I thought

15:14

about that because I saw a tweet where

15:16

were saying like, um, then

15:18

my shoulder is like Thanos is like

15:20

snappers. It's like inevitable. It's going

15:22

to happen. And so like some people

15:24

try to empty out. Like you try to time it

15:26

because like if you're slow stepping, if you try

15:28

to like brace for the bump and block the shot,

15:30

like you're not going to time it because he's

15:33

going to slow step you and you're probably going to

15:35

get a foul. Like. I'm

15:37

not going to say what I'm going to do

15:39

because I want to save it for when we play

15:41

them next year. But

15:43

it's definitely something that he's perfected. And

15:45

I'm not going to say he's a

15:48

small guard, but he's not the biggest

15:50

guard. And he's bumping bigs out of

15:52

the way, like moving up. So much

15:54

respect to him. I will say that.

15:57

Let's move to

15:59

Cliff's nuggets. I think

16:01

there's a lot here. And the

16:03

guys, I want to start with you on the two -man game. your

16:07

thoughts Saturday on how

16:09

the Clippers defended it,

16:12

what you sort of see moving forward. Obviously,

16:14

every time these guys are in a

16:16

playoff series, this is sort of the main

16:18

event is how teams deal with this. And

16:21

so I sort of wanted your

16:23

initial perspective on what you saw from

16:25

LA on it. I was

16:27

honestly intrigued because they tried to keep it two

16:29

on two early on. Like one the things that popped

16:31

in that first half in particular, as you had

16:33

Chris Dunn flying all over the place, He'd

16:35

get the late switch on Yoko Chihiro's popping out. Yoko goes

16:37

to the middle of the floor and the Clippers are like,

16:39

hey, you do your best. We will see you on the

16:41

other side of these scores. We don't want to send a

16:43

bunch of extra help. But

16:45

as Steve, I'm sure he's going to hit on a little

16:47

bit later. And as he's been hitting on all year long,

16:49

like there's only so much you can hold on to when

16:51

it comes to that Denver two man game. They're going to

16:54

ding you. They have too many different ways they can get

16:56

to it. It's not just pick and roll. They can invert

16:58

it when they want to. They can involve a third if

17:00

they need to in terms of Aaron Gordon. Roman

17:02

and the Nunker spot are setting a screen

17:04

for Jamal Murr before they flow in the handoffs.

17:06

And as the game went on, you saw

17:08

more decisiveness from Nikola Yokej. Jamal Murry started to

17:10

get the shot, making Perkin up in the

17:12

second half. And from there, it's like, OK,

17:14

we kind of have to send help now, because

17:16

now they're just digging us in a bunch of different

17:18

ways. We're getting Yokej in the middle of the

17:20

floor. We're getting Yokej quick drives. We're getting Yokej pops.

17:22

We're getting Jamal Murry pull -ups. We're getting Murry drives.

17:25

And as they had Russell Westbrook on the

17:27

floor, like I kind of laughed at how. aggressively

17:30

they were sending Chris Dunn elsewhere. Like,

17:32

okay, let's put two on Jamal Murray. Let's

17:35

just have Chris Dunn, Chris Dunn roam off of

17:37

Russell Westbrook, no matter where he is to kind of

17:39

be the third defender in that action. And,

17:41

you know, Russ hits a big shot late,

17:43

but more importantly, you're just outnumbered

17:45

on the offensive glass. Like that's kind of

17:47

where the Clippers got dinged late in that

17:49

one. So like, I would imagine maybe we

17:51

see more switching in less aggressive help

17:53

when Russ is on the floor or perceived

17:56

non shooters on the floor. So where you

17:58

can still allocate some resources without exposing yourself

18:00

on the back end. But ultimately, this

18:02

is just the pressure that Denver puts on you. I'm

18:06

intrigued to hear what Trey has to say

18:08

about this two man game because I imagine truly

18:10

dealing with it has to be annoying on

18:12

a level that I personally can't relate to. But

18:15

like for me, it was like, you started to

18:17

notice in that first half, like, hey, I don't

18:19

know if the Clippers have that comfort with how

18:21

they want to guard Yokech and Murray. Because,

18:23

you know, Zubat's great defensive year. Part of it

18:25

was, OK, I'm going to drop. I can do a

18:27

late switch if you get dinged. The problem was

18:29

that put Chris Dunn on Yokech in the middle the

18:31

floor. And in my head, I was like, ooh, I

18:34

don't know if 'all want to do that anymore. And

18:36

then they started running pin downs for Yokech.

18:38

I'm like, hey, Zubat's got to move. Wait,

18:40

I don't know if y 'all want to do

18:42

that. Now Jamal Murray starts cooking,

18:44

and then you start to see, okay, Zubat's

18:46

a little closer to the level. Chris Dunn

18:48

trying to rotate the yoghurt pop. I

18:50

don't know if we feel comfortable about that. The

18:52

help comes from the weak side. Like they just start

18:55

to ding you in so many different ways. Now

18:57

Zubat's don't feel comfortable doing the late switch.

18:59

You got yoghurt in the pocket. It

19:01

just kind of like unwraps

19:03

slowly, unravels a little bit.

19:06

The Clippers have to be able to defend that because they

19:08

did so many good things in that game. But if

19:10

it's a close game and the Denver Nuggets have those two

19:13

going, you either got to outscore them

19:15

or hope for the best. I

19:17

would say the biggest thing, the two main

19:19

game, or not the biggest thing, one of

19:21

the most important things is Aaron Gordon because

19:23

when he's in the dunker spot, and

19:26

also too, with the way that they are, with

19:28

the way that his spacing is,

19:30

they're not like the best shooters. And

19:32

so like, One of the problems

19:34

that you'll see with teams that don't have great

19:36

shooters is they'll try to go, like, one

19:39

strong side corner, two on the opposite side,

19:41

and they just, and the opposite side will

19:43

just zone up, and it's like, right, we're

19:45

just gonna live with you guys shooting. But

19:47

when you flatten out the defense, and you

19:49

give Yoakage, like a whole, basically, like, free

19:51

the line up, extended, like, per space, if

19:54

you try to step up to stop Yoakage, he just

19:56

throws a lob to Aaron Gordon. So you're basically in

19:58

a, like, all right, what do we really

20:00

want to give up? and a

20:03

yoga floaters, damn they're like a step

20:05

carry free throw. So it's like, you

20:07

don't, you have a, it's like

20:09

a pick your poison and both answers are

20:11

wrong. And so, I think the

20:13

biggest thing that I saw was the Clips

20:15

missed a lot of bunnies early on and

20:17

also like throughout the game, like they had

20:19

so many offensive real opportunities and missed bunnies,

20:21

but also they had a big game from

20:24

Nichols Baton and then down the stretch, I

20:26

just feel like they were not very locked

20:28

in. Now I must say, playing the difference

20:30

is hard. the altitude

20:32

is a real thing. So

20:34

I'm not trying to say, oh, they retired, but

20:36

I will say they damn sure look like they

20:38

retired making, they're making tired mistakes at the end

20:40

of the game. Like just getting the ball hit

20:42

off your leg, like when you're just on the

20:44

sideline, they're drilling the ball out of bounds, stuff

20:46

like that. It's like, you can't make these mistakes

20:48

the end of the game. Like you really cannot

20:50

make these mistakes again at Denver too. Like they're

20:52

going to capitalize on that. Like

20:55

I think to that end, like it was

20:57

what 29 points off of 20. to clip

20:59

the turnovers in that game as well. And

21:01

the question I'll toss to 'all quickly, because

21:03

we saw again Chris Dunn as a Romer late in

21:05

that fourth quarter. We saw Kawhi on Jamal Murray. Did

21:07

we get Kawhi on Russ in that situation in game

21:09

two or moving forward? So you least

21:11

have a little bit more size to kind of

21:14

allocate to the yokich pop or just to have him

21:16

on the back end kind of help on the

21:18

glass. So you can alleviate some of that. Not

21:22

a bad adjustment. They

21:25

might put Kawhi on Murray or

21:27

Yolkich and say, hey, get in there,

21:29

brother. I

21:32

mentioned the timing of

21:34

the doubles in the

21:36

post game afterwards. And

21:39

he was just like, they got to speed them up. I'm

21:41

curious. It's

21:43

an interesting adjustment. I'm curious, like, is

21:46

there any other small thing like that

21:48

that you guys see? This feels like we're

21:50

going to see a lot. moving back

21:52

and forth in this series. Is there any

21:54

other thing like that that you guys

21:56

sort of see that you wouldn't be surprised

21:59

in game two if one of them

22:01

busted out? I

22:03

wouldn't be surprised if they go switch and double. And

22:06

they just try and live with it and say, we're just

22:08

going to double rotate out of it. Maybe they don't stick

22:10

with it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they mix that

22:12

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a true crime investigation. We

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explore a uniquely American moment that

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the people to a true issue. Finally,

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to Law and Crimes Luigi exclusively

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on Wondery Plus. You can join

24:03

Wondery Plus on the Wondery app,

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Spotify or Apple podcasts. We're

24:09

not talking about OKC Memphis. That's

24:12

it is what it is. It

24:14

happened before we don't want to talk

24:16

about it at all. I mean,

24:18

if you have thoughts, feel free to

24:21

chime in. I

24:23

was just impressed if I lie to

24:25

you. I don't think I've ever

24:27

seen anything like that. I haven't actually.

24:29

No, I haven't seen maybe the

24:31

grizzlies and warriors when they were in

24:33

Memphis the year that the war

24:35

is won. I think I was like

24:37

game four maybe or something like

24:40

that. It wasn't 50,

24:42

but it was like 47. I will

24:44

ask you, you dealt with a little

24:46

bit of this last year in that

24:48

arena. In what

24:50

sense? In terms of when

24:52

they make a run, when they make

24:54

a run and you guys get over

24:56

and it feels like it's a crowd.

24:58

I mean, this is a great team.

25:00

They've done this all year, but it

25:02

feels like it feels like the crowd

25:04

can overwhelm people. Did you really have

25:06

to bring that up though? Did you

25:08

notice from experience? You wanted to talk about

25:10

it. I was literally like, we're not going

25:12

to talk about it. And then you said

25:14

you had to chime in about something. OK.

25:16

So what my notes was, because I only

25:19

wrote one sentence, because after that, there was

25:21

no point really writing anything else. But I

25:23

was like, if they shoot the ball

25:25

like this, I think they're coming

25:27

out the West. There's no almost if and

25:29

unless about it. Like they come up with

25:31

wits if they're able to shoot like this

25:33

and I think that was the biggest thing

25:35

that happened last year like that Dallas series

25:37

Dallas Forster guys hit shots and they didn't

25:39

hit shots and that's why I lost that

25:41

series If they're able to knock down these

25:43

open shots when they get them Bad and

25:45

also I'll say to this for the experience

25:47

part since you want to hear about that

25:49

so bad Game one was at 8 30

25:51

p .m. I remember it was a late game

25:54

and It throws you off your routine a

25:56

little bit, but obviously it's a playoff. So

25:58

you're like, all right. Well, I'm gonna get

26:00

I'm gonna get high As soon as I

26:02

ran onto that court, just the energy of

26:04

the whole building just went on to the

26:06

floor. And it was the most insane feeling

26:08

I've ever felt on a basketball court. I

26:10

was like, oh yeah, this is like man

26:12

in the arena type of thing. Like I

26:14

feel like a gladiator going into the war.

26:16

Like it was super dope. Now

26:18

I like that stuff because, you

26:21

know, I'm like a hater basically.

26:23

I get fueled off of hate and get fueled

26:25

off of people like, you know, wanting me

26:27

to fail. And so I loved it. Like I

26:29

really enjoyed it, but like for a lot

26:31

of people, like it gets into their head because,

26:33

you know, they're just not accustomed to stuff

26:35

like that. You

26:37

guys have, you guys have a response? Oh

26:40

no, I think you just might have to ask

26:42

the experience question at the start of every pod

26:44

with trade. Just to get

26:46

them going, just to get them in rhythm. Hey,

26:49

by the way, by the way, on

26:51

April 20th, y 'all got smacked by. Unfortunately,

26:57

there's a few examples we can bring up. We're just

26:59

going to keep it moving though. We

27:03

got to run through the two of the

27:05

Eastern things before we get to LA, Minnesota.

27:08

Can we just shout out Ty Jerome

27:10

for a second? I think everyone on

27:12

this call at various points, but maybe

27:15

we can just each say one nice

27:17

thing about Ty. He needs the positive

27:19

reinforcement. I feel like after yesterday, everyone

27:21

is Everyone now, everyone is sort of

27:23

seeing nationally what we've been saying for

27:25

the last five months. He's

27:27

such a gamer. The shop making certainly popped

27:29

in their fourth quarter, but he's been doing

27:32

this all year long. Like the drives, the

27:34

middies, the floaters, the pull -ups, the wild

27:36

passes, and he just feeds off the crowd.

27:38

So I just, I've enjoyed watching Ty Jerome

27:40

this year. I'll be quick on mine. Oh,

27:46

I was going to let Trego. Trace got a

27:48

lot to say. I'll probably have a lot to say. Hey

27:51

man, consistency, holding

27:54

up defensively to drives, not afraid to

27:56

do whatever it takes. Ty

27:58

Jerome has had a heck of a year for Cleveland. Well,

28:01

first of all, I'm to say

28:03

Virginia guy, so checks out, story checks

28:05

out. But I knew

28:08

Ty was going to be doing

28:10

really well this year because All

28:13

right, we're getting a little into a tangent,

28:15

but we took a trip to central pay last

28:17

year and he brought out his shrimp trainer

28:19

and He was working out every single day that

28:21

we were out there. I took a break

28:23

because I was working that whole summer. Also, he

28:25

didn't play that last year. So This is

28:27

the most MBA. We took a trip to central

28:30

pay and he brought his trainers. That's a

28:32

I knew he was No, but no for real

28:34

like he really took like he took his

28:36

box like he took working on his body super

28:38

seriously and as somebody he was working on

28:40

like every year while he's been in league in

28:42

this year. He really took it seriously. And

28:44

I knew he was going to make a big

28:46

jump. I was on the phone with somebody

28:48

while I was watching the game. And I had

28:50

to hang up the phone because I was

28:52

literally going crazy. I was yelling the entire time

28:54

on TV. I was so hyped for him

28:56

because I just know how hard he works. And

28:59

I know he really wanted this moment

29:01

bad. And I'm just super happy he

29:03

was able to get that. Before

29:07

we get to Lakers, Minnesota,

29:09

one Orlando Boston question. Obviously,

29:12

Paolo and Franz in 59, rest the

29:14

team at 27. Those

29:16

guys are great. We know they're great.

29:18

We've talked a ton about them being

29:20

great. They were great yesterday. Is there

29:22

something that this team can unlock with

29:24

the rest of this group in this

29:26

matchup moving forward that you think can

29:28

push this series past four or five

29:30

games? I

29:34

mean, I can go. I think the

29:36

first half was the formula for Orlando.

29:39

We defend and we get Boston to play

29:41

slower. Powell and Frans have to get a

29:43

lot of buckets. The problem is specifically against

29:45

Boston, you can't necessarily play

29:47

the matchup game with Powell and Frans. What

29:49

are you going to do? Attack Drew Holiday and Derek White. Maybe

29:52

you get poor things in the drop. He's ends up switching.

29:54

They were OK, switching Luke Cornette. So it's like you're not going

29:56

to get them to a point where we feel like we

29:58

got a double or put two in the ball. Y

30:00

'all have to keep scoring these buckets. And

30:02

then if we start to get going

30:04

offensively. Now your offense dries up, we push

30:06

and transition, just like the start of that

30:09

second half, where Orlando had done everything they

30:11

were supposed to do in that first half.

30:13

The problem was Boston responded immediately and the

30:15

game changed because what's Orlando going to do?

30:17

Play faster. That's not really their style. Powell

30:20

and France not really getting double teams,

30:22

not making shots. Now we're running because you're

30:24

not making shots if you play quicker. And then that's it.

30:26

You know, all we need to do is get back up

30:28

to 8 -10. Drew Holiday mad as hell, run around trying

30:30

to steal the ball and hit threes. That's

30:32

the game. And so that's my concern for Orlando.

30:35

I think they have to get Boston to play

30:37

slower, powering friends that make shots. And it's got

30:39

to be a fourth quarter close game type beat.

30:41

If they can get close in the fourth, it's

30:43

going to be like this all series. Yeah,

30:45

like I'm mostly where Steve is there in terms

30:47

of like who Orlando could potentially unlock. Like I

30:50

don't know if there's a specific guy, like they're

30:52

going to move window round as a screener and

30:54

as a hub. But like, I don't know if

30:56

he's going to knock down enough shots. to actually

30:58

bend what Boston wants to do. Like they did

31:00

invert things. Since Corey Joseph has been the starting

31:02

lineup, he's screened for Paolo, he's screened for Franz.

31:04

Caleb Houston came in a little bit earlier than I

31:06

thought he was going to. He got some ghost

31:08

screens in there. So like the three -point battle as

31:10

much as you can try to neutralize it, they did

31:12

take more threes than Boston in that first half. And

31:14

then the floodgates opened after Orlando started missing shots

31:16

and Boston got going in transition. Like using

31:18

those shooters, using Cole Anthony kind of

31:21

ghost screeners, you get the match up or you get

31:23

them slipping out and attacking there. That's probably

31:25

their easiest avenue to kind of generating

31:27

some other stuff outside of those two. I

31:31

think let's close it

31:33

out with the game

31:35

to Tuesday night. Lakers,

31:39

Minnesota, really interesting in a lot of

31:41

ways. Game one, I was I'm out here

31:43

now is out there for for game

31:45

one. I'm curious, just your guys initial thoughts.

31:47

The guys will start with you. Here's

31:49

your initial thoughts on game one. what

31:52

you think the adjustments are going to be. I

31:54

think we can all assume Austin and LeBron will probably

31:56

play better. But just sort of

31:58

this matchup overall, besides that happening, what

32:01

you think is next in the

32:03

series? I think the

32:05

Lakers are going to have to be a little bit

32:07

more decisive. As you hit on, LeBron and Austerese are

32:09

going to have to be better. Austerese particularly defensively. I

32:12

don't know if that's going to be the Lakers shading

32:14

more help towards Austerese with some of those Isos if

32:16

they're going to continue to switch them out. But you're

32:18

going to need a little bit more from them. But

32:20

I just didn't think they played fast enough

32:22

or they didn't get into their stuff early enough. I

32:24

don't know. I think JJ kind of alluded

32:26

to it in the post game. I don't think

32:28

they anticipated Minnesota being so intent on we're to

32:30

drop or we're going to drop the switch.

32:32

We're not putting two on the ball. We're going

32:34

to live with some of these attacks from

32:36

Luca from LeBron versus Austin Reeves. We don't want

32:38

to open up the three point game because

32:41

they know on the other end, the legs are

32:43

going to switch. going to show that gap help.

32:45

There are opportunities for the Minnesota Timberwolves to

32:47

generate those threes. And Ant was able

32:49

to get into the teeth of the defense. We saw

32:51

some drives from Julius Randall. Everybody else perked up. Jada

32:53

McDaniels was fantastic on both ends of the floor in

32:55

that one. So I think for the Lakers, be

32:57

a little more decisive offensively. Naturally, if LeBron and Austerese

32:59

make more shots, they have more of an opportunity to

33:01

set their half court defense. And they can try to

33:03

poke at some of the things that Minnesota wants to

33:05

get to and hope for the three point shooting not to

33:07

hit the way it did in game one. That's

33:10

probably top of mind for me. Steve.

33:14

I mean, I think. You got to be

33:16

ready to deal with the terms of engagement.

33:18

If you're the Lakers and you're going to

33:20

be small, you got to understand

33:23

you're switching. Minnesota knows you're switching. Anthony

33:25

Edwards is making quick decisions. They

33:27

got Nasred and Julius Randall who are

33:29

tall people who can dribble and also will

33:31

try and attack matchups in different ways.

33:33

Minnesota felt very comfortable offensively and like the

33:35

Lakers defense is fine. I mean, I

33:37

think they switched their activists show help. It's

33:39

good stuff. They know where the shots

33:41

are coming from. They're able to know exactly

33:43

if I drive here, you're going to help. I'm

33:45

kicking it that way. So they've got to

33:47

be able to find a way to contain that

33:49

offensively. They've got to, they've got to turn

33:51

Rudy, go bears, drop to late switch and something

33:53

different. Because if, if you're going

33:55

to be small and, you know, I expect Jackson

33:57

to play more than eight minutes, but like

34:00

if you're going to be small and Rudy can

34:02

just switch late, they can switch back if

34:04

you try and pull up an ISO. They've got

34:06

to just move the ball and move Minnesota's

34:08

bodies a little bit more and get more drives

34:10

and just be more decisive, as Nakaia said,

34:12

because if it's just going to be Minnesota's comfortable

34:14

on both ends of the floor, it's a

34:16

different series. You know, the Lakers, this strength of

34:18

this team is if they can get two

34:21

on the ball. So can Luke or

34:23

LeBron or even Osreys make enough shots? Can you find

34:25

the right match up to a Minnesota's like, hey,

34:27

we got a double. We got some help. Now that

34:29

opens things back up for you. That just feels

34:31

like the battle for the Lakers. Troy,

34:34

what do you think? Yeah,

34:36

I think what Ant really talked about

34:38

and like said to like his teammates

34:40

early on like before the series and

34:42

started was saying like, yeah, like I'm

34:44

gonna have to rely on you guys

34:47

like it might not be a big

34:49

like Anthony Edwards series and they really

34:51

showed that in that game like I'm

34:53

watching like just watching and just like

34:55

like Minnesota's offensive firepower is just insane

34:57

like they bring in Dante bring in

34:59

Nas And now they're just

35:01

hitting shots like no other. And I

35:04

thought like the biggest question mark for

35:06

me was going to be Mike Colley,

35:08

especially defensively, because Lakers are such a

35:10

large team. And you don't really want

35:12

to take out Mike Colley because he's their best

35:14

decision maker. But he literally held

35:16

his own and made great decisions and

35:18

hit shots. And so if he's able

35:20

to do that, then Minnesota is a

35:22

scary team, scary team. And I also

35:24

want to highlight like Julie's Randall played

35:26

a great game. 7 -10

35:28

overs isn't good. We all know

35:30

that, but he made good decisions.

35:32

He moved the ball, and he

35:34

wasn't just playing stagnant. They were

35:36

really moving the ball to order

35:39

to get the Lakers defense to

35:41

break down. What

35:43

do you think the Laker adjustment

35:45

is to Nas? Because he's been doing

35:47

this for two years, three years,

35:49

really. This isn't particularly surprising that he

35:51

came in and shot like this, but

35:54

it does feel like Tre. Garden,

35:57

I think garden will be an answer.

35:59

A lot of them were pretty open in

36:01

my opinion, but I think garden will

36:03

probably be one of the answers and adjustments

36:05

to game two. It's not

36:08

always going to be a coach, guys. I

36:10

don't know if you can see the brain.

36:14

Let me interrupt that real quick. Like

36:16

garden, those answers. Trick

36:18

all time. Trick all time. I said

36:20

try. Do

36:27

you feel like you guys mentioned

36:29

the Knicks earlier about like how they're

36:32

in certain ways you look at

36:34

their roster and it's like it may

36:36

be built for the playoffs better

36:38

for all the sort of, you know,

36:40

hot and cold they had this

36:42

year. Do you look at Minnesota

36:44

a little bit in the same way where like

36:46

when this team is clicking, they all of a

36:48

sudden They become a

36:50

team that you really do not

36:52

want to see in mid -April in

36:54

a way that maybe there's a little

36:57

bit of choppiness with rotations and

36:59

everything like that throughout the season. For

37:02

me, I think Minnesota, they had to figure a

37:04

lot of things out in the regular season. But when

37:06

you have a player like Anthony Edwards, that's

37:08

to put pressure on defense. But

37:10

when you have Julius Randall, who can attack different

37:12

matchups, this time of year, you like to switch.

37:14

He's driving the ball no matter what. So there

37:16

are certain matches where I truly don't care. I'm

37:18

getting to whatever spot and I'm either going to

37:20

force help or I'm going to get a bucket

37:22

or I'm going to drive and kick. And so

37:24

they have that with a defensive mindset. I don't

37:26

think the defense is at the same level it

37:28

was last year, but in the playoff series, they

37:31

can kind of game plan and be more intense.

37:33

So they have a formula. It's just, are they

37:35

going to hit it consistently? And I mean, if

37:37

game one's indication, they're pretty locked in. At

37:39

24, I lost my narrative,

37:41

or rather it was stolen from

37:43

me. And the Monica Lewinsky

37:45

that my friends and family knew

37:47

was usurped by false narratives,

37:50

callous jokes, and politics. I

37:52

would define reclaiming as to

37:54

take back what was yours. Something

37:56

you possess is lost or

37:58

stolen. And ultimately, you triumph in

38:00

finding it again. So I

38:02

think listeners can expect me to

38:04

be chatting with folks both

38:06

recognizable and unrecognizable names about the

38:08

way that people have navigated

38:11

roads to triumph. My hope

38:13

is that people will finish an episode

38:15

of reclaiming and feel like they filled

38:17

their tank up. They connected with the

38:19

people that I'm talking to and leave

38:21

with maybe some nuggets that help them

38:23

feel a little more hopeful. Follow Reclaiming

38:25

with Monica Lewinsky on the Wondery app

38:28

or wherever you get your podcasts. You

38:30

can listen to Reclaiming early and

38:32

ad -free right now by joining Wondery

38:34

Plus in the Wondery app or on

38:36

Apple Podcasts. In

38:43

each episode, we share thrilling, true stories of

38:45

survival, putting you in the shoes of the people

38:47

who live to tell the tale. In

38:49

our next season, it's February

38:51

14th, 1979. Elmo Wortman

38:54

and his three children are stranded

38:56

on a remote Alaskan island after

38:58

a massive storm destroys their sailboat. Miles

39:00

for help. Miles from Help, they

39:03

have to face the brutal cold with

39:05

barely any food, only a sale

39:07

for shelter and a leaky plastic dinghy.

39:09

Desperate to survive, they build a

39:11

raft and try to reach safety. But

39:14

as starvation and frostbite take hold and

39:16

days stretch into weeks, their endurance is

39:18

pushed to the limit. Follow against the

39:20

odds wherever you get your podcasts. You

39:22

can listen ad -free on the Amazon

39:24

Music or Wondery app. Before

39:27

we close, let's get final, final thoughts

39:29

from... you guys, I want one thing

39:31

you're looking for in Game 2 from

39:33

any of the series. It can be

39:35

a person, it can be a thing.

39:37

There's one thing that you feel like

39:39

we haven't talked about yet on this

39:42

app that you feel like is coming

39:44

in Game 2. I

39:46

would say very quickly, on the OKC

39:49

Memphis series, I was intrigued by what OKC

39:51

did to Jaren Jackson Jr. in particular.

39:53

I wasn't expecting Hartenstein on Jaren, Chet on

39:55

Zach Eady. And so I do wonder

39:57

how Memphis works to counter that. And just

39:59

in general, what the Zac 80 usage

40:01

is going to be like, if he's going

40:04

to be in a deep drop, OK,

40:06

see, has pockets. Can they get enough out

40:08

of him offensively to kind of offset

40:10

the openings that they're giving up on defense

40:12

with him? Steve.

40:17

Kay, cutting him buckets in one

40:19

of the Detroit shooters going off. That's

40:22

that's in the back of my brain. I want

40:24

to see what that looks like if Kay is able

40:26

to make some shots. What does New York do?

40:29

And if one of them shooters go crazy, what happens?

40:32

See, this is how I know that we're a

40:34

family, because I literally was thinking the exact same

40:36

thing. See? we got

40:38

to get the new one. Hey, you should

40:40

have gone second train. I

40:43

knew you'd lose. OK,

40:46

all right. This is the one. I

40:49

want to see Milwaukee's response.

40:51

I think that'll be very important

40:53

for a lot of different

40:55

things. even outside

40:57

of playoffs. I would like to

41:00

see what Milwaukee's response is because they

41:02

don't respond. I think there's gonna

41:04

be some crazy things happening. Let's just

41:06

say that. I won't say anything

41:08

else, but I think there'll be some

41:10

crazy things happening. They do not

41:12

respond. You got the script early? I'm

41:14

not saying that. I do not

41:16

have any script, but I think Milwaukee's

41:19

response to this game too will

41:21

determine a lot for the rest of

41:23

the playoffs and the rest the

41:25

summer. My last question, which I guess

41:27

would be the thing I'm looking

41:29

for and I'm curious your guys perspective

41:31

on this People were talking probably

41:34

stupidly before the series about how like

41:36

a man is a Staff stopper

41:38

and then he comes out and does

41:40

that but just like what are

41:42

they gonna do to what are they

41:44

gonna throw at him to not

41:46

allow Game 1 to happen again besides

41:49

just you know, hope he doesn't

41:51

hit some of those Crazy looks like

41:53

what I mean, what is there?

41:55

What is what are they as a

41:57

for a young team and this

41:59

in this thing and this in a

42:01

series like this? What can that?

42:03

What's their adjustment to basically step being

42:06

step? Got

42:10

to keep size on them keep size on them.

42:12

You got to do a cleaner job on the

42:14

switches I mean he had some incredible shots where

42:16

he just had a little bit of room and

42:18

someone made a slight mistake and he's open, but

42:20

you just got to Keep sizing them, be physical,

42:22

try and wear on them throughout the game and

42:25

hope that cumulative effect has it. But when he's

42:27

when he's going like that, you just got to.

42:30

All right, let's get back. I

42:33

think for me, it's mostly to do better button

42:35

for Houston, honestly. Like if there's a thing I'm keeping

42:38

an eye on when they do go to some

42:40

of the split game with stuff at the top, like

42:42

you saw, they were able to screen to get

42:44

Jaylen Green switched on them onto him. Jaylen Green was

42:46

physical with stuff. Whoever the big is in

42:48

that situation, I think needs to be a little bit

42:50

higher up. So if Jalen does get

42:52

caught when they're actually going to stuff there, you have

42:54

a cleaner switch opportunity there. Trust your back line on that

42:56

front. Other than that, stuff is just stuff at a

42:58

certain point. Yep. Well said.

43:02

Dunkerspot. We got a new episode coming out

43:04

later this week. We're talking about some of

43:06

these later games. We've got another YM3 with

43:08

Steve Nash and Cam Johnson coming later. Trey,

43:12

heal up, man. We will

43:14

see you very soon. Thanks, guys.

43:17

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