0:00

Hey Prime members, you can binge all 10

0:02

episodes of Think Twice Michael Jackson

0:05

ad free on Amazon Music Download

0:07

the app today

0:09

My name is Nelson Hayes and

0:11

for a while I got blessed

0:14

to work with Michael Jackson as a

0:16

personal assistant when

0:18

Michael was Expanding

0:20

his magic on January 27th

0:24

1984 Nelson Hayes was helping Michael Jackson and

0:26

his brothers on the set of an ad for Pepsi

0:30

The Jacksons had signed a 5.5 million

0:32

dollar contract with Pepsi to sponsor

0:34

their upcoming tour Even though Michael

0:36

refused to drink soda.

0:38

He loved watermelon juice and

0:40

wheatgrass He wasn't

0:42

a soda person nothing against Pepsi But

0:44

you know a deal's a deal

0:47

on the day of the shoot Hayes found himself

0:49

taking on an unexpected role

0:51

Mike comes up to me said Nelson the

0:54

pyro guys a little bit off-timing

0:56

I want you to cue him when the pyro

0:59

supposed to go off.

1:00

It sounded simple enough So

1:03

I talked to the pyro guy I was just

1:05

gonna tap him and the minute he saw my

1:07

hand moving to tap his shoulder

1:10

He was the hits the fire button on the pyro

1:14

The commercial was staged as a Jackson's

1:16

concert the audience of extras

1:19

fawned in anticipation The brothers

1:21

gussied up readying themselves to go on

1:23

stage and Michael was set to make

1:25

his grand entrance at the top of a staircase

1:28

in a dazzling costume His shirt

1:31

jacket and his now signature

1:33

single white glove were all covered

1:35

in sparkling embellishments After

1:38

a flash of pyrotechnics Michael

1:40

would dance his way down the stairs to join

1:42

the other

1:44

They had already done several takes and

1:46

launched into another all of a sudden

1:49

the power of guys said he's on fire he

1:51

hollers that out and Just

1:54

everybody runs on stage and

1:57

plummets Mike and gets the fire out

1:59

It's like bedlam.

2:02

It's just bedlam there. Michael

2:08

was rushed to his dressing room.

2:10

Hayes, who had worked closely with Michael for years,

2:13

paced back and forth.

2:15

A few minutes later, a security guard told

2:17

him that Michael was asking for him. So

2:21

I go in there and I see

2:23

the burn wound. It's

2:26

about the size of between a quarter

2:28

and a half dollar at the top of his head.

2:31

And it was like bubbling. You know,

2:33

you throw a pat of butter on the skillet,

2:36

those kind of bubbles.

2:38

It was just horrendous, horrendous.

2:43

I was like, wow man, you're going to be okay? And

2:46

he said something like, I hope so. Yeah, I'll be okay. He

2:48

said, but I need you to go get

2:50

my glove. And I looked at him. I

2:52

said, excuse me? And he said,

2:54

I need my glove.

2:57

And so I go back

2:59

out on the stage and the glove

3:01

is somewhere on the floor. And

3:03

I bring it back to him and he

3:05

starts smiling again.

3:07

Michael's sequined white glove had recently

3:09

become a staple of his image. And despite

3:12

being seriously wounded, he was intent

3:14

on staying in character. He

3:16

was thinking, okay, the paramedics are coming to get me. There's

3:19

going to be a bunch of cameras and media

3:21

outside. I got to do something

3:24

to let the fans know how I'm going to be okay. Jackson

3:27

managed a weak wave to his fans as he

3:30

was carried into the burn unit of the Brockman Medical

3:32

Center in Los Angeles last night. Sure

3:34

enough, in the footage that appeared in news reports

3:37

about the incident, the captivating images

3:39

of a body on a stretcher being wheeled

3:41

out of the ambulance and into the hospital, mostly

3:44

covered with a mustard yellow blanket,

3:46

except for a single hand

3:48

wearing a sparkling glove reaching up

3:50

from the stretcher. How could you even

3:52

think of something like that when you've just

3:54

been in an accident? He's

3:58

the true showman.

4:01

On February 7th, 1984,

4:03

just 11 days after the Pepsi accident,

4:06

CBS Records threw a party honoring Michael's

4:09

entrance into the Guinness Book of World Records

4:11

for the album sales of Thriller. The

4:13

invitation was printed on a single white

4:16

glove.

4:19

In this episode, Michael Jackson masterminds

4:22

his own coronation as the King of Pop.

4:25

But not before he becomes known in the tabloid

4:27

media as an eccentric and a weirdo.

4:30

Labels that threaten to consume him and

4:32

call into question whether all publicity

4:34

really is good publicity. I'm

4:37

Leon Nafak. And I'm Jay Smooth.

4:40

From Audible, Wondery, and Prologue

4:42

Projects, this is Think Twice,

4:45

Michael Jackson, Episode 7, Leave

4:48

Me Alone.

4:53

Angie has made it easier than ever to connect

4:55

with skilled professionals to get all your

4:58

home projects done well. Whether it's

5:00

routine maintenance and emergency repair

5:02

or a dream project, Angie lets

5:04

you browse homeowner reviews, compare

5:06

quotes from multiple local pros, and

5:09

even book a service instantly. So, the

5:11

next time you have a home project, just Angie

5:13

that and start getting the most out of your home.

5:16

Download the free Angie mobile app today

5:18

or visit Angie.com. That's

5:21

A-N-G-I dot com.

5:30

Sally, Jesse, and Rush Limbaugh out

5:32

for each other's blood. Oh, wow. Dynasty

5:35

co-stars snubbed as Heather Locklear

5:37

weds.

5:40

Outrageous rules allow

5:42

anyone to drive a school bus. Wokeness

5:45

already out of control.

5:48

So Jay and I are sitting here in the

5:50

studio with a stack of National Enquirers. They're

5:52

all from the 80s and early 90s and we've

5:55

been slowly acquiring them and building up this

5:57

pretty massive collection as we've been working on the show.

5:59

And I gotta say, honestly, looking at

6:02

these, I really get the appeal. These covers feel

6:04

like a sort of earlier form of the

6:06

clickbait internet headlines we're also used

6:08

to now. They're like provocative,

6:10

dare you to believe it or not, headlines next

6:12

to all these colorful celebrity photos

6:15

and no actual text or news

6:17

to be found.

6:18

And what's interesting is that while there were

6:20

always rumors going around about Michael

6:22

Jackson, starting from when he was a famous

6:25

little kid, he doesn't seem

6:27

to have been much of a target for the National Enquirer

6:30

until after Thriller.

6:31

Yeah, the success of the Thriller album just made

6:33

him so much more famous than he'd

6:35

ever been. He became one of the most famous

6:38

people, not just in America, but on the planet.

6:40

People had always compared the Jackson 5 to

6:42

the Beatles because of how intense their fans were.

6:45

But Michael mania meant that all that fan

6:47

attention was now being focused on one

6:50

person. I think he's so sexy

6:52

and so gorgeous. He is just beautiful.

6:55

He is just beautiful. He's the sexiest

6:57

man I've ever met in

6:59

my whole entire life. Yeah, you know, it wasn't just young women

7:01

that were over the moon for Michael either. I can remember

7:03

him being the epitome of coolness

7:05

for everyone in my grade school cohort. We

7:08

all wanted his jacket, the glove, his moves.

7:11

That was the swagger you wanted to have.

7:13

I mean, it seems like everyone, including the

7:15

adults reading the National Enquirer in the grocery

7:17

store line, they were all curious

7:19

about him at this point. And the interest

7:22

was piqued by the fact that around 1984, Michael

7:25

had pretty much entirely stopped doing formal

7:28

interviews.

7:29

Michael's manager at the time, Frank DeLeo,

7:31

has said that he got the idea from Elvis's

7:33

manager, the Colonel.

7:35

Elvis didn't do interviews, so neither

7:37

would Michael.

7:38

And the result was that fans like myself

7:41

were kind of starved for information about

7:43

Michael, which I think was partly the intent.

7:46

He also basically stopped going out in public

7:48

at this point so people were eager to see

7:50

any glimpse of him they could get. And

7:53

when Michael was seen out and about, he

7:55

was usually doing these sort of eccentric things.

7:58

For example, the date on this issue.

7:59

is June 19, 1984. The

8:03

headline says, Michael Jackson's

8:05

Wacky Friendship with Young Webster Star.

8:08

Now, Webster was a hit family sitcom,

8:11

and its young star was Emanuel Lewis,

8:13

a 13-year-old boy who looked even

8:15

younger. And the picture on

8:18

the cover of this issue is a tight shot

8:20

of Michael wearing a sequined blue jacket

8:22

and a gold sash.

8:24

He looks like a cross between a military commander

8:26

and a circus ringleader. Yeah, that pic is

8:29

actually from the 1984 Grammys

8:31

a few months earlier, where Michael took

8:33

Brooke Shields as his date.

8:35

But he also brought Emanuel Lewis

8:37

and carried him around all night like he was a

8:39

toddler. And in the National Enquirer,

8:42

the stunt was played as a sort of third wheel

8:44

situation where an unnamed source

8:46

had Brooke Shields telling Michael, I

8:49

guess I have to get used to this if I want to go

8:51

out with you. But it sure is hard to explain

8:53

why there's always the three of us.

8:57

So this is one of those things that in hindsight

8:59

makes you cringe a little, or at

9:01

least feel like surely people must have

9:03

thought something strange was going on with

9:06

this friendship. But honestly,

9:08

it's pretty hard to tell what people were thinking

9:10

at the time. Like there certainly wasn't

9:12

any public speculation about anything

9:14

inappropriate taking place. And it's

9:16

worth saying that Emanuel Lewis himself has

9:19

repeatedly said in interviews as an adult that nothing

9:22

sexual ever happened between him and Michael.

9:25

But that doesn't mean that it wasn't a bizarre

9:27

spectacle in the moment, especially

9:29

for people who had watched Michael grow up in

9:31

front of their eyes.

9:32

I can just imagine that processing

9:35

this evolution from little kid Michael

9:37

to grown up in a tuxedo,

9:40

thriller Michael to now

9:42

where you had this adult who was wearing

9:44

a military uniform and carrying

9:47

a child around like an accessory, just

9:50

had to be a lot to take in. And at

9:52

that time, we were grasping for anything

9:54

that would help us make some sense of what

9:56

Michael was growing into. So I

9:58

can understand the attraction to what

9:59

what the Inquirer was offering. The

10:03

only person we have to think about is the reader. It

10:05

was the reader, the reader, the reader. Now,

10:08

you'd say, how do you really know what the reader wants? Well,

10:10

it took years, but you could tell by

10:13

the stories that sold better. The Inquirer

10:15

was almost all sold copy by copy by

10:17

copy.

10:18

This is Ian Calder, a fixture at the National

10:20

Inquirer for more than 20 years.

10:23

As a top editor at the paper, Calder was

10:25

single-minded in his pursuit of a great headline.

10:28

I always looked for the gee whiz factor. You

10:30

want people to stop saying, oh my gosh,

10:33

who knew that that was there?

10:36

Born and raised in Scotland, Calder

10:39

came to the US to work for the Inquirer at a moment

10:41

when its popularity was exploding. What's

10:43

the largest selling news weekly in America?

10:46

It is a news week, it isn't even time anymore.

10:48

In first place is the self-proclaimed

10:51

news weekly, the National Inquirer,

10:53

the one you can buy for 30 cents at the checkout counter

10:56

of your supermarket. So one

10:58

thing that's worth saying is that a lot of people assume

11:00

that what's in the National Inquirer week to

11:02

week is made up from whole cloth.

11:05

And I think that's because the Inquirer has sort

11:07

of gotten lumped in with some of the other tabloids

11:09

you tend to see next to it in the checkout line. Like

11:12

the weekly world news, for example, which skews

11:15

more towards the absurd, with stories about bat

11:17

boy and aliens coming down to Earth. Calder

11:20

made sure to tell us that the Inquirer was

11:22

different, that they fact-checked everything,

11:25

and that they did not pay people for stories.

11:28

However, what we did is

11:30

we paid them for tips. Now, the

11:32

other mainstream media hated

11:35

us for that because they said it would make people

11:37

lie. But we still had to go through exactly

11:39

the same way to prove a story, whether

11:41

we paid people or not. Calder

11:44

and his team may have been making their best efforts

11:46

to ensure that everything in the National Inquirer

11:48

was true.

11:49

But the paper nevertheless had a reputation

11:52

for overreach. In 1981,

11:54

they were ordered to pay damages in a defamation

11:56

suit filed by Carol Burnett.

11:58

And over the next several years,

11:59

they settled lawsuits from celebrities including

12:02

Frank Sinatra and Tom Selleck.

12:04

In any case, the paper's appeal did not

12:07

depend on its accuracy. Like

12:09

other tabloids, it got by on a salacious

12:11

sense of fun and an ear for a sticky

12:14

phrase.

12:15

One of the stickiest turned out to be Wacko

12:17

Jacko, a nickname for Michael

12:19

Jackson that is typically credited to The Sun,

12:21

a British tabloid. The

12:24

Sun printed Wacko Jacko in bold type

12:26

on their cover in 1986. In

12:28

its subsequent years, the nickname seemed

12:30

to follow Michael everywhere.

12:32

I remember tabloid headline writers running

12:35

with it with covers like Wacko Jacko

12:37

Backo or Jacko on His

12:39

Backo after he collapsed at a rehearsal

12:41

in 1995. And to me, these headlines were

12:45

generally questionable because I think it's bad

12:47

taste to call people Wacko in most

12:49

contexts, but just referring to Michael

12:52

as Jacko is pretty problematic in itself

12:54

because that Jacko part of the nickname has

12:57

some pretty racist origins.

13:02

Back in the 1820s in London, they had this

13:04

thing called monkey baiting, which

13:07

was kind of like modern day dog fighting,

13:09

but possibly even worse because they

13:11

were pitting fighting dogs against monkeys.

13:14

And there was this one fighting monkey named Jacko

13:17

Macaco, who became sort of a legend

13:19

thanks to his track record of killing the dogs

13:22

he was fighting.

13:23

And after that, Jacko became cockney

13:25

slang for monkeys in general, and eventually

13:27

it became a popular children's toy

13:30

or stuffed animal named Jacko Monkey

13:32

that you could find in lots of English homes from the 50s

13:35

on through the 80s.

13:37

So basically any time someone

13:39

in the British press called Michael Wacko Jacko,

13:42

the first association many people would have had with

13:45

the Jacko part was a monkey. Right.

13:48

Yeah, not great. And there

13:50

are also examples of monkey characters named

13:52

Jacko in some American children's books,

13:54

too. So the association isn't necessarily

13:56

just a British one. It does make

13:58

me think of

13:59

one of the inquirers covers we have in our pile

14:02

here, which is headlined Michael

14:04

Jackson goes ape. Now he's talking

14:06

with his pet chimp in monkey language.

14:09

Yeah, although to be fair, that headline

14:11

is referencing an actual monkey, Michael's

14:14

pet chimp bubbles. Right, and

14:16

in what I would say counts as legitimately

14:18

wacky behavior, Michael carried

14:21

bubbles around with him for quite a while.

14:23

He even once brought him to tea with the

14:25

mayor of Osaka in Japan. Very

14:27

similarly to the way he carried around

14:29

Emmanuel

14:29

Lewis actually, which feels a bit

14:32

icky. We're in that uncanny valley between

14:34

wacky and creepy at this point.

14:40

September 16th, 1986, Michael

14:43

Jackson's bizarre plan to lift 150. A

14:47

plan that includes sleeping in

14:49

a pressurized oxygen chamber, getting

14:52

daily electric shocks, popping 50

14:54

vitamin pills a day, and

14:57

even talking with animals.

14:59

Here, Calder is reading to us from one of the most

15:02

famous national inquirers covers of all time.

15:05

You may be familiar with the photo. It's

15:07

Michael Jackson laying on his side, eyes

15:09

closed in a hyperbaric chamber, which

15:12

if you've never seen one, basically looks like a big

15:14

glass coffin attached to a bunch of machinery.

15:17

It's likely that Michael was introduced to this pressurized

15:20

oxygen chamber after his burn incident

15:22

on the Pepsi set,

15:23

because these machines are often used to help

15:26

burn victims heal. The article in

15:28

the inquirer claims that Michael bought his

15:30

own chamber so he could sleep in it and live

15:32

longer. The strange thing

15:35

is that how we got the story

15:37

was probably the easiest story we ever got in our

15:39

lives. It was like handy to us on a plane.

15:43

One of my editors came

15:46

in to see me and said,

15:48

you'll never believe this, but

15:50

I just got a call from Michael

15:53

Jackson's manager. And he said

15:55

that Michael is sleeping

15:58

in this hyperbaric chamber. and

16:00

he's going to send me a photograph in it.

16:03

Now, there are various accounts of this story

16:06

that slightly vary in their details. But

16:08

the thing they all have in common is that Michael's

16:11

team gave the National Enquirer the photo.

16:14

In exchange for the photo and details about his

16:16

plan to sleep in the hyperbaric chamber, Calder

16:19

says the stipulation from Michael's management was

16:21

at the story run on page one with

16:24

the word bizarre in the headline.

16:26

So the picture came in. And

16:29

I didn't like the picture. You couldn't quite

16:31

see it was Michael Jackson. I mean, it looked like Michael

16:34

Jackson. And the information came

16:36

from the Michael Jackson people, which is obviously

16:38

from Michael himself. But

16:40

I'm afraid of the following, that

16:42

it really isn't Michael Jackson. And then somebody will

16:44

come out and say it's me. It really isn't Michael

16:46

Jackson. So I said, I'm not using

16:48

this. It's too dangerous for us. Tell

16:51

him if he wants us to do it, we've got to get another

16:53

picture. And it better show incontrovertible

16:56

evidence that it

16:58

is really Michael Jackson. They

17:01

went away. They took another picture. They sent us the one

17:03

that ended up on the front page.

17:07

We were very happy until Jackson

17:10

tried to screw us on the Oprah show.

17:12

Ladies and gentlemen, Michael

17:14

Jackson. ["The

17:15

Superman Show Theme"] Calder

17:18

is referring to the primetime interview Michael

17:20

gave in 1993, nearly seven years after the story was

17:24

published. When

17:25

Oprah asked him about the hyperbaric chamber, Michael

17:28

blamed the leak on someone from the photo lab.

17:31

So I'm looking at the piece of technology. I'm touching

17:33

it, feeling it, and decide to just go inside of it,

17:35

just to hammer around. Somebody takes

17:37

a picture. When they process the picture,

17:40

the person who processes the picture say, oh, Michael

17:42

Jackson. He made a copy. These

17:44

pictures went all over the world with this lie

17:46

attached to it. It's a complete

17:49

lie. Why do people buy these papers?

17:51

And it's not the truth.

17:54

Michael, in his usual giddily simpering

17:56

style, tried to say

17:58

that the... This story was an exaggeration.

18:02

And the inquirer were terrible people for treating

18:04

him like this.

18:05

Someone makes it up and everybody believes

18:07

it. You hear a lie often enough, you

18:10

start to believe it. Yes,

18:12

and people make money selling tabloids.

18:14

Now, we were really annoyed at that. So we

18:16

had a gossip columnist called Mike Walker. He

18:19

wrote something in our gossip column,

18:21

setting the record straight. And

18:24

he led his column

18:25

by calling this lying star

18:27

Michael Pinocchio Jackson.

18:30

And he announced

18:32

that his nose was getting longer

18:34

by the minute.

18:36

It does seem reasonable to assume that

18:38

even if Michael himself didn't personally

18:40

send Ian Calder that photo, he

18:42

would have known it came from his own camp.

18:45

I mean, his manager Frank DeLeo was quoted

18:47

by name as a source in the article. According

18:50

to this, Frank DeLeo

18:52

says he and other friends have warned the star

18:54

that the machine may harm or even kill him.

18:57

And we have quotes from him, which he obviously

19:00

allowed us to use. Yeah, I mean, what

19:02

better direct source can you have?

19:04

DeLeo was a larger than life character

19:06

who always had a cigar in his mouth. He'd

19:09

frequently appeared in Michael's stead as a

19:11

sort of public mouthpiece. You see,

19:13

you're the manager, but who's the boss? Michael's

19:17

the

19:18

boss. He's definitely the boss. He makes

19:21

every final decision. He decides on

19:23

the type of dancing we're doing, the

19:25

order of the songs. He has the final

19:27

decision on the staging, etc.,

19:29

etc., etc. Tell me this, what

19:31

are you getting paid for? What

19:34

am I getting paid for? To

19:36

talk to you.

19:38

It's been speculated that DeLeo and Michael

19:40

together led the charge on planting

19:42

stories in the press.

19:44

And it wouldn't really surprise me if Michael had

19:46

a hand in spreading rumors about himself, especially

19:49

since Michael is known to have admired P.T.

19:51

Barnum, an infamous manipulator of

19:53

the press who literally co-owned a circus.

19:56

Michael reportedly gave out copies of Barnum's

19:59

autobiography to the press.

19:59

to DeLeo and several other people close

20:02

to him, saying that he wanted his whole

20:04

career to be the greatest show on earth.

20:07

The Wacko Jacko and the

20:09

Sleeping in the Chamber and all that stuff

20:12

was a giggle.

20:13

We all laughed about it. Me, Frank,

20:15

and Michael, we all thought it was a goof. This

20:18

is Larry Stessel, who you met in our previous

20:20

episode. In the 80s, he was the senior

20:22

vice president of West Coast operations

20:24

at Epic Records and worked closely

20:26

with Michael and DeLeo. They were like children.

20:29

Frank or Michael would come up with that idea and they go, yeah, that's

20:32

a great idea. Let's play in the mud. Mom

20:34

will really be upset. It was all shock

20:36

value. It was all fun and games.

20:39

P.T. Barnum was known for big stunts

20:41

to draw up publicity for his attractions.

20:44

Some of them even involved planting fake news

20:46

stories or scathing anonymous editorials

20:49

to get people talking.

20:51

So taking a cue from Barnum, the hyperbaric

20:53

chamber cover can be seen as a purposeful

20:55

publicity play.

20:57

The issue came out the week Michael Jackson's

20:59

Disney attraction, Captain EO, debuted

21:01

in September of 1986. It's

21:03

a super slick, high-tech rock

21:06

video with state-of-the-art special effects.

21:08

Put on your 3D glasses and you get a

21:10

cross between Star Wars, The Muppets,

21:12

and Beat It.

21:14

The highlight of the Captain EO experience

21:16

was a 3D science fiction film

21:19

written by George Lucas and directed

21:21

by Francis Ford Coppola. The

21:23

futuristic hyperbaric chamber photo

21:25

was a perfect tie-in with the movie.

21:27

And this was not the only instance of a Michael

21:29

Jackson tabloid story arriving just

21:32

in time to promote something. In 1987,

21:35

Michael's team tipped off the New York Daily

21:37

News that Michael had attempted to buy the

21:39

Elephant Man's bones from the Royal London

21:41

Hospital. The Elephant

21:44

Man was a 19th-century Englishman named

21:46

Joseph Merrick, who was known for the physical

21:48

deformities of his body and his face and

21:51

who appeared in a freak show owned by the UK's

21:53

version of P.T. Barnum.

21:56

In 1980, David Lynch directed

21:58

a critically acclaimed film

21:59

the Elephant Man that Michael was known

22:02

to be a fan of.

22:03

But the story of Michael trying to actually buy

22:06

Joseph Merrick's Bones was quickly seized

22:08

upon as fodder for jokes.

22:10

Here's Howard Stern on his radio show calling

22:13

the hospital in London and asking to buy the

22:15

Bones himself. I know that Michael Jackson

22:17

offered a million. I can up that to two million. Please

22:19

don't for fail. It's a medical

22:22

research in the medical college. It's

22:24

not up for bid. But the story about Michael

22:27

trying to buy the Elephant Man Bones wasn't

22:29

just relegated to comedians and tabloids.

22:31

Manager Frank DeLeo was an on the record

22:33

source in stories that appeared in the L.A. Times,

22:36

the Chicago Tribune and the AP.

22:39

As it happened two weeks later, Michael

22:41

Jackson announced a worldwide tour for

22:43

his upcoming album, Bad.

22:46

At this point, PR savvy Michael

22:48

Jackson and his team might have thought they

22:51

were in the driver's seat. But the narrative

22:53

of eccentricity in many ways seems

22:55

to be veering off course. To

22:58

most of us, he's just whacko-jacko.

23:01

And if some of the press are to be believed,

23:03

he eats flowers for lunch and sleeps

23:06

in an oxygen tent, often with a chimp, a

23:09

snake and an alien in a sort of bizarre

23:12

love triangle. There's a story

23:14

in Spin Magazine in 1987 that

23:16

said that Michael, in record time, had gone

23:18

from being one of the most admired of celebrities

23:21

to one of the most absurd. It was

23:23

like Michael had evolved into a living curiosity.

23:26

And as he prepared to put out his first

23:28

album since Thriller, it was

23:30

hard to say whether the world was now

23:32

more interested in the man or his music.

23:48

Michael Jackson stole my girlfriend

23:51

in seventh grade. That

23:54

was my first exposure to Michael

23:56

in the Jackson Five.

23:58

This is Larry Davis. who worked

24:00

in promotions at Epic Records in the 80s. But

24:03

in junior high, he was just a kid with a crush.

24:06

Valerie was cute. I mean, she was cross-eyed.

24:08

I didn't care. She was just cute. And

24:11

one day she came to BAM rehearsal and

24:13

she says, you're not my boyfriend anymore.

24:16

This is my boyfriend. And

24:18

she puts this picture of this guy

24:21

on her music stand that I didn't

24:23

know who he was. Well, she had

24:25

moved from a larger city, so she

24:27

was already exposed to who the Jackson

24:29

Five were, but had made it down

24:31

to Biloxi and Gulfport, Mississippi, yet. So

24:34

I didn't know until a couple of weeks later when

24:36

I heard, I want you back.

24:38

Davis wound up in a corner of the music industry,

24:41

then known as Black Music Promotions.

24:44

When Black Music first started to be

24:46

a priority with the labels, it had different

24:48

names. Like at A&M Records, it

24:50

was called Special Projects.

24:53

Like, whoa. By 1987, Davis

24:56

was working at Epic Records, Michael's label,

24:58

and gearing up to go to the company's International

25:01

Convention. Michael was getting

25:03

ready to release his Bad Album, and

25:05

everyone was extremely excited to have a new

25:07

Michael Jackson record to promote.

25:09

As they set the stage and

25:12

laid out the agenda for the week, this

25:14

was the event that was mandatory, and

25:16

it was the biggest event of the convention.

25:19

The event Davis is talking about was

25:21

the premiere of the new video from Michael Jackson's

25:23

title track, Bad.

25:25

It was a massive production, an 18-minute film

25:28

directed by Martin Scorsese.

25:30

The company set up a screening and a large auditorium

25:33

at the convention center.

25:37

As we got into that room that day,

25:39

it was, OK, this is it. Davis

25:42

was on the edge of his seat with anticipation,

25:45

and so was everyone else. It darkened

25:47

the room,

25:49

and then all of a sudden, you hear the music,

25:51

and it's like, whoa, man. You

25:54

could just feel, Michael, I got goosebumps right now thinking,

25:56

you could just feel the anticipation. Dun,

25:59

dun, dun.

25:59

And I was like, whoa.

26:04

And we're all sitting there. And

26:07

then all of a sudden, the video comes on.

26:10

And we were captivated by the track.

26:12

The choreography was incredible,

26:15

but people are staring and they're

26:17

whispering like, what did he do

26:19

to himself?

26:22

That was like

26:25

the undertones of this great event was

26:27

his appearance. They

26:30

saw Michael's face and they were totally

26:33

shocked. His skin was much

26:35

lighter than it had been the last time they saw

26:37

him. And his plastic surgery was more

26:39

pronounced.

26:40

You could see the dimple in the chin. You

26:42

could see the chin had been

26:45

reshaped. This didn't even look

26:47

like Michael.

26:48

You're talking to someone who goes back

26:50

to the Jackson 5 and I want you

26:52

back. Someone else who's African-American,

26:55

who definitely knows what African-American features

26:57

look like. And this is not the

26:59

person that even we saw

27:02

on the Thriller album.

27:03

This is not the person that we saw

27:05

as a Jackson 5. It's like, this

27:08

is different. And people were staring,

27:10

just trying to figure out what it was. So

27:12

I'm thinking, is this like him dressed

27:15

up in some kind of makeup like he was in Thriller?

27:18

And then after the video, when they started

27:20

showing the images of the album, you're

27:23

realizing this is not just a video.

27:25

This is his new look.

27:30

I was still in my early teens when Bad came

27:32

out. And I remember feeling kind of jarred

27:34

by it as well. There's a shot early

27:36

on in the video where they give you a close up of Michael

27:39

slowly turning his face up towards the camera.

27:42

And it's a pretty striking reveal of how

27:44

much his look has changed since the Thriller

27:46

album. That part of the video is in black and

27:48

white. But you can still tell that Michael's skin

27:50

color is much lighter.

27:52

And that was, I think, when people

27:55

began to question Michael's motivations

27:57

for making his facial features and

27:59

skin color.

27:59

whiter. But I still felt

28:02

fond of Michael and I wanted to judge him kindly.

28:04

Well, when bad came out, in August of 87, the

28:07

press was not as kind. The New

28:10

York Daily News ran a three-day special

28:12

series called The Wizard of Odd,

28:14

with one feature in which they said that Michael was

28:16

on a quest to buy Egyptian mummies and

28:19

that he maintained an Elizabeth Taylor shrine

28:21

in his home. There was also a photo

28:23

spread of Michael's young pals, showing

28:26

Michael at Disneyland with Emanuel Lewis, and

28:28

separately, hanging out with Yoko Ono

28:31

and John Lennon's 11-year-old son, Sean.

28:34

And there was also yet another center spread

28:37

where they had a plastic surgeon break down

28:39

which procedures he thought Michael had done

28:41

since his first nose job in 1979. And where fans

28:45

used to squeal about how gorgeous Michael

28:47

was, now they weren't always so

28:49

complimentary.

28:50

It's a lot of talk. A lot of people are talking

28:53

about it and how foolish he looks. I can't

28:55

see paint all that lace with face that comes out like

28:57

his.

28:59

Despite the strong reaction from some fans,

29:02

Michael claimed in his 1988 autobiography that

29:05

he had only had two nose jobs and added

29:07

a cleft to his chin. He gave

29:09

no explanation for his lighter skin.

29:12

The thing was, after bad came out, his

29:15

skin and his face were all anyone

29:17

could talk about.

29:18

Suddenly, it seemed like Michael's camp

29:21

could no longer get the press to focus solely

29:23

on his weird, but ultimately kind of amusing

29:26

behavior.

29:27

Instead, journalists were interested in things

29:29

Michael did not want to talk about. In

29:32

one of the few interviews Michael did in 1987,

29:35

an Australian reporter asked him about the constant

29:37

stream of media speculation about his private

29:40

life. Does it affect you? Does it hurt you

29:42

to see some idiotic stories that are written? Yeah,

29:45

I'll answer that question if you don't mind. In

29:47

the segment, Michael is sitting right next

29:49

to his manager, Frank DeLeo. And

29:51

he's been answering the reporter's questions himself.

29:54

But at the mention of headlines, DeLeo

29:56

jumps in to answer on his client's behalf.

30:00

If it hurts me, I know it hurts Michael.

30:03

He's a little more blase about it than I

30:05

am. He just sort of shrugs it off. But

30:08

I find it very terrible that some of the

30:10

stuff that is written, particularly

30:12

about plastic surgery, and

30:14

the majority of it, not

30:17

the majority, all of it is garbage and

30:19

rubbish. And, you know,

30:21

if that's the best thing that, that's the

30:23

only thing they can figure out to do with their life, then,

30:26

you know, they're pretty sick people.

30:30

I noticed listening to this clip that what he specifically

30:33

names being hurt by is the talk about

30:35

Michael's plastic surgery, not

30:37

the zany behavior that DeLeo himself

30:40

was possibly spreading.

30:41

Yeah, I mean, to me, it seems like this

30:43

is the flip side of all the fun and

30:46

games that Michael and Frank DeLeo had been playing

30:48

with the media in the years after Thriller.

30:51

Like, looking through the press coverage around the release

30:53

of Bad, there is truly no shortage

30:55

of headlines referencing Michael as eccentric

30:57

or weird. In September of 1987,

31:00

People magazine put out a cover story titled Michael

31:03

Jackson. He's back. He's bad.

31:05

Is this guy weird or what?

31:07

And a month later, People had another

31:10

Michael Jackson cover story, which was an

31:12

exclusive message from Michael.

31:14

And inside, they printed a handwritten letter

31:17

Michael had delivered to one of their reporters on

31:19

tour in Japan.

31:21

And the letter said, shortening things

31:23

a bit,

31:24

like the old Indian proverb says,

31:26

do not judge a man until you've walked two

31:29

moons in his moccasins. I cry

31:31

very, very often because it hurts.

31:34

But have mercy, for I've been bleeding

31:36

a long time now.

31:38

And it's signed MJ.

31:40

Wow. So that's him trying to express

31:43

his pain, I guess, at being covered in

31:45

the way People magazine had been covering him, that he didn't

31:48

like being called weird. That

31:50

seems to be what he's going for. But we

31:53

also know that they've been sort of manufacturing

31:55

or astroturfing this sense of weirdness as well.

31:58

So I wonder how much this is really worth.

31:59

or how much this is kayfabe from Michael.

32:03

I

32:03

mean, yeah, it's so dramatic,

32:05

I mean, I guess, which would be resonant with the

32:07

idea that

32:08

he's acting a little bit here.

32:11

But, boy, I mean, I've been bleeding

32:13

a long time now. That's... It's

32:15

a couple of steps removed from I've Been Dying

32:18

For You Since. Yeah.

32:23

What's been the reaction to the new record? Michael

32:26

Madness. You've heard of Beatlemania. This is Michael

32:28

Madness. Everybody's coming in and buying

32:30

Michael Jackson. People were talking about

32:32

Michael's looks, but they were also

32:35

buying the album. The new look is

32:37

not too hot, but the album is great, and he's a

32:39

great entertainer. All told, Bad

32:41

sold nearly 18 million records in

32:44

his first year.

32:45

Among the pictures on the inside of the Bad

32:47

album sleeve is one of Frank DeLeo and Michael

32:49

Jackson with the caption, Another

32:52

great team.

32:53

Larry Davis again. I remember

32:55

people would make jokes sometimes about how

32:57

he looked, but then all of a sudden, smooth

33:00

criminal. It's like when you see him as smooth

33:02

criminal, nobody's talking about how he looks. They're

33:04

talking about how cool it was that he's doing

33:06

that leaning thing, and how did he do that?

33:09

You know, it's like all of a sudden, Michael's done this

33:11

again. And so people weren't focused

33:13

on those looks back then. A

33:14

lot of that was coming from the mainstream,

33:17

but as far as black people, you

33:19

know,

33:21

our people are kind of funny like that, man. At

33:23

least we were in my generation. No

33:26

matter what, we're going to pull our people close to

33:28

us. We're going to circle the wagon. Hey, man, where's

33:30

Michael? Hey, but he's us. You know, well,

33:32

yeah, OK, that's the way he looks now. But we just remember Michael

33:35

Jackson, man, from the Jackson Five. And

33:37

that's who he grew up with. So if he looks different

33:39

now,

33:40

then that's one thing. But he's still bad.

33:43

This assessment is right in line with

33:45

my memories of discussing Michael back then.

33:48

Amongst black people I knew, we might rag

33:50

on him and have a whole variety of opinions.

33:52

And I don't remember anyone thinking that Bad was

33:55

as good musically as Thriller, either.

33:57

But when push came to shove, that was still our.

34:00

Michael and at least in my circles

34:02

when speaking to the outside world we'd be

34:04

protective of him.

34:05

Meanwhile in the white media it was a

34:08

mixed bag. The very first paragraph

34:10

of Rolling Stone's review of Bad mentioned

34:13

Michael's arrested development, the hyperbaric

34:15

chamber and the elephant man's bones. But

34:18

ultimately they did give the album four out

34:20

of five stars. In 1988 Bad

34:22

was nominated for four

34:24

Grammys but the album didn't take home

34:27

any of the major awards.

34:29

According to one biographer after

34:31

the awards show Michael went back to his hotel

34:33

and cried.

34:34

The biographer says that an unnamed friend

34:36

of Michael's told him he thought the whole

34:39

thing was unfair. It wasn't about the music

34:41

it was about the image.

34:43

Would the academy give record of the year to

34:45

a guy who sleeps in an oxygen chamber? Not

34:48

likely. Nearly a decade

34:50

after that in one of Michael's rare sit-down

34:52

interviews Barbara Walters asked him

34:54

about the conflict that arose from the press shifting

34:57

their attention from the music to the man.

34:59

There is that argument that you rely on

35:01

publicity to sell your albums

35:04

for your concerts. I approve of something

35:06

yes. But you can't always control

35:08

the press you can't approve of everything you

35:10

can't invite them in again and again

35:12

and then at a certain point close them out.

35:15

Yes you can. Well

35:16

how do you do that? What is that line?

35:19

You should not say he's an animal should not say

35:21

he's Jacko. I'm not a Jacko.

35:24

I'm Jackson.

35:28

Not quite a year after the Grammy loss

35:30

DeLeo was quoted in the LA Times saying

35:32

that bad had been Michael's final tour

35:34

and that he was turning his focus towards

35:37

film. Weeks later

35:39

Michael fired DeLeo as his manager. DeLeo

35:42

later said it was never clear to him why he was

35:44

fired but some speculated that Michael

35:47

was disappointed with bad's album sales. Others

35:50

say that Michael fired DeLeo because he wanted someone

35:52

more Hollywood as his manager. Ironically

35:55

DeLeo was shortly thereafter cast in

35:57

Goodfellas. Director Martin

35:59

Squareau

35:59

Scorsese had scouted him on the set of

36:02

the bad video. Another

36:03

letter from that school goes to that kid's house.

36:06

In the fucking oven, you're going to go ahead first.

36:10

The 1990s ushered in a new era

36:13

for Michael Jackson and a new management

36:15

team led by a showbiz veteran named

36:17

Sandy Gallon.

36:18

Sandy Gallon was one of those

36:21

notorious Hollywood manager

36:23

types who screamed at his assistants,

36:25

threw staplers at his assistants, went

36:28

through assistants like water.

36:30

This is Shauna Mangataw. You met her

36:32

back in episode one. She worked at Sandy

36:34

Gallon's office, which gave her a front seat

36:37

to the goings-on of some pretty A-list

36:39

celebrities.

36:39

I would talk to Elizabeth Taylor through the day, Carrie

36:42

Fisher, David Geffen. Every

36:45

celebrity of the 90s

36:48

called in

36:49

all the time. He was a very powerful man,

36:51

and he knew everybody. As they got

36:54

ready to launch Michael's new album, Dangerous,

36:56

at Michael's label, there was a concern that the decade

36:59

of weird was distracting from his actual

37:01

art and that fickle pop radio stations

37:04

would lose interest. So Michael's

37:06

new team embarked on a PR push to

37:08

shed him of his wacko persona

37:10

and refocus his image back on the music.

37:13

Michael was a master, and

37:16

his publicity people were masters

37:18

at keeping him in the public eye.

37:20

This is Abby Konowich. In 1991,

37:23

he was the senior vice president of music

37:25

and talent at MTV. That

37:27

meant he was the liaison between the network

37:30

and musical artists and their managers.

37:33

My job was to do what was best for MTV and

37:36

to be transactional with

37:38

the biggest star we had to make sure we got what

37:41

we needed and gave him what

37:43

he needed.

37:45

Sometime in late 1991, Konowich

37:47

was called to a meeting at Sandy Gallon's office.

37:50

Sandy said, Michael's going to join our

37:52

meeting today. And I said,

37:54

that's good. He

37:57

said, well,

37:58

he's going to ask you to do that.

37:59

something and we

38:02

need you to say yes."

38:05

Konowitsch was intrigued. Galen

38:07

spelled out the request. He would like MTV

38:10

to refer to him when you

38:12

play his videos or when you talk about

38:14

him as the king of pop. First

38:17

reaction?

38:18

That's absurd. Abby, that's

38:20

what he wants. I think you understand

38:22

that, right? Well, I do, but

38:26

it doesn't feel right. It's

38:28

not for you to feel. This is what Michael wants and

38:31

he's going to come in in a few minutes and

38:33

you need to tell him you're doing that.

38:36

When

38:38

he came in, he didn't

38:41

ask, of course. Sandy

38:43

and Jim said,

38:45

so we've discussed this with Abby and they've

38:47

agreed to do it.

38:50

We hadn't agreed to do it. I

38:52

was on the set doing my show. Roger

38:55

got handed a memo that

38:57

said his management said that Michael Jackson

38:59

shall be known as the king of pop from here

39:02

on out. This is Alan Hunter,

39:04

the former MTV VJ you heard from

39:06

in the previous episode. In a memo

39:08

dated November 11th, 1991, VJs

39:11

were told that they should refer to Michael Jackson

39:14

as the king of pop at least twice

39:16

over the next week. I giggled, we laughed,

39:18

we thought, well, this can't be serious. It's like,

39:20

oh no,

39:21

this is from on high. And

39:24

if you don't say the king of pop,

39:26

when you talk about Michael Jackson, then I,

39:29

the producer will get crap for it.

39:34

It was not the first time anyone had ever called

39:36

Michael the king of pop, but it was the

39:38

first time they were required to do

39:40

so.

39:42

Elvis was called the king and Michael

39:44

felt like he had earned the title of

39:46

king. So he did it himself.

39:48

He said, you're going to call me the king of pop. And

39:52

even now people still think of him as the king

39:54

of pop. So I think it worked.

39:56

The

39:56

memo to MTV staffers came 15

39:59

days before the.

39:59

Dangerous album was released. Among

40:02

the many images on the cover of Dangerous is a portrait

40:05

of a man who looks an awful lot like P.T.

40:07

Barnum. There's even a tiny Ringmaster

40:09

character perched on top of his head. If

40:12

Michael Jackson had wanted his career to be

40:14

the greatest show on Earth, it seemed

40:16

that was still the playbook, as Michael continued

40:19

a run of publicity behind Dangerous that

40:21

made him more ubiquitous in the culture than

40:23

he had ever been.

40:25

Good evening. I'm Oprah Winfrey. Bringing

40:28

you a world exclusive interview with the most

40:30

elusive superstar in the history

40:33

of music, Michael Jackson.

40:36

On February 10th, 1993,

40:39

Michael Jackson did something he had been refusing

40:41

to do for over a decade. He

40:43

sat down with a journalist for an in-depth

40:45

interview on live television.

40:48

This is the same interview where Michael refuted

40:50

the story about the hyperbaric chamber you heard

40:53

earlier. Oprah interviewed Michael

40:55

at home at Neverland Ranch, which

40:57

he had purchased the year after bad was released.

41:00

There are

41:00

plenty of mind-bloggling

41:02

areas on this 2,700-acre

41:04

ranch, but where Michael Jackson eats

41:06

and where he sleeps and where he lives

41:09

is quite simply a beautiful

41:11

home.

41:13

The Oprah interview was created

41:15

to humanize Michael. The press

41:18

had made him appear to be something other

41:20

than human. And we wanted people

41:22

to remember, look, this is just a guy.

41:24

This is the guy that we all grew

41:27

up with. This is the little boy that

41:29

we fell in love with, with the Jackson Five. He's

41:31

not Wacko. This is the

41:33

Michael that you knew

41:35

and you've always loved.

41:37

Oprah Winfrey was the biggest talk show

41:39

host on TV, so submitting to this

41:41

interview was, in one sense, an act of

41:43

supreme confidence on Michael's part. But

41:46

it was also an acknowledgement that by this point

41:49

his image had overtaken his music.

41:51

Oprah was representing the rest of us here in

41:53

an ostensibly unfiltered conversation.

41:56

wanted

42:00

to know. She asked them all. Did

42:02

you buy the Elephant Man's bones? No. Were

42:05

you trying to get them? That's another stupid story. I love

42:08

the story of the Elephant Man. It reminds

42:10

me of me a lot. You know, I could relate to

42:12

it. It made me cry because I saw myself

42:14

in the story. But no, I never asked

42:16

for the Elephant Man.

42:19

Where am I going to put some bones? I don't

42:21

know. And why would I want a pair

42:23

of bones? Later

42:25

in the interview, Oprah asked for the backstory

42:28

on another bit of Michael Jackson lore. Where

42:30

did this whole notion that you proclaimed

42:32

yourself king of pop come from? Well,

42:34

I didn't proclaim myself to be anything. I'm

42:37

happy to be alive. I'm

42:39

happy to be who I am.

42:41

King of Pop was first set by Elizabeth Taylor

42:43

on one of the award shows.

42:45

Elizabeth Taylor did call Michael

42:47

the king of rock, pop and soul at

42:49

a 1989 award show. However,

42:52

according to Bob Jones, Michael's publicist

42:54

at the time, the line was written into the speech

42:57

at Michael's request.

42:58

Yes. And then fans, all the stadiums

43:00

that we play, they bring big banners that say the king

43:02

of pop and jackets that say the king

43:04

of pop and t-shirts that say the king. And they chant

43:07

it outside my hotel. King

43:09

of pop, king of pop, king. So it just became

43:11

something that just, you know, that just happens all over

43:13

the world. Happened. Yeah. But you didn't

43:15

tell me to call you king of pop. No.

43:17

Why would I tell you to call you king? I've been calling you

43:19

Michael. Yeah. I think the press loves to just

43:22

start trouble like that. Do not read the tabloids.

43:24

Please. It's crazy.

43:26

It's so interesting to hear him blame

43:29

the press repeatedly in this interview for the

43:31

stories that as we've heard throughout this episode,

43:33

he absolutely was a participant in. And

43:36

this was a live interview where Oprah couldn't

43:38

really fact check Michael on the spot. So

43:41

he basically had an open platform to put whatever

43:43

spin he wanted on the truth. Though I

43:45

will say for most of the interview, Michael did

43:47

come across as very forthcoming and

43:50

raw. And

43:51

he was very willing to engage on Oprah's

43:53

questions even when she got extremely personal.

43:56

And Oprah did get into some pretty intimate

43:58

topics like Michael's Virginia.

43:59

He refused to answer that one.

44:02

His childhood abuse at the hands of his father,

44:04

Joe, and about halfway through the

44:06

interview, what was going on with his

44:08

skin? Let's

44:09

go to the thing that is most discussed

44:11

about you, I think, is the fact that the color of your

44:13

skin is obviously

44:16

different than it was when you were younger.

44:19

Is your skin lighter because you don't like being

44:21

black?

44:22

Michael's answer, which he had never shared

44:24

publicly, was that he suffered from a

44:26

skin condition called vitiligo.

44:29

I have a skin disorder that

44:31

destroys the pigmentation of

44:33

the skin. It's something that I cannot help, okay?

44:37

But when people make up stories that I don't want to

44:39

be who I am, it hurts me.

44:44

Suddenly,

44:44

anyone who had laughed at Michael

44:46

for his appearance had been laughing at

44:48

his pain. It's a problem for me, okay?

44:50

I can't control it, okay? A

44:53

total of 62.2 million

44:55

people watched the Oprah interview. And

44:58

if inspiring them to feel sympathy for Michael

45:00

was the goal, it seemed to work.

45:03

A Gallup poll taken for Entertainment Weekly showed

45:05

that in the wake of the interview, 73% of

45:08

respondents said they found him more sympathetic

45:11

than they did before. I

45:12

think it really helped. Of course, there

45:14

were still people who were making

45:17

jokes and stuff, but at least no

45:19

one could make up their own story about

45:22

him anymore.

45:23

It seemed that Michael had effectively undermined

45:26

the caricature that had taken root in the years

45:28

since Thriller. He had turned the page

45:30

and emerged from the transition stronger

45:32

than ever.

45:42

And here's an envelope. Whenever

45:46

I saw this envelope come

45:48

to my office, I

45:51

got excited because I knew it was

45:53

from Michael or his office.

45:56

Shana Mangatal is showing us a collection

45:58

of ephemera that she sees.

45:59

saved from her days working at Sandy

46:02

Gallon's office. Mangatol

46:04

is a self-proclaimed pack rat and saved

46:06

a lot of old papers from the office, even if

46:09

they just seemed like random memos or

46:11

notes at the time. To her, anything

46:13

having to do with Michael was special.

46:15

This is a memo from the National Enquirer

46:17

that I found maybe a year

46:20

or so ago that I didn't even know I had.

46:23

And it's explaining

46:26

different story ideas for Michael. The

46:29

March 1993 memo Mangatol has pulled out is

46:32

from the general editor at the National Enquirer

46:36

addressed to Sandy Gallon. It was

46:38

written a month after the Oprah interview and

46:40

details a whole list of story ideas

46:42

about Michael, including notes

46:45

on how likely they are to make page one

46:47

of the Enquirer. Mangatol read

46:48

us some of the pitches. It

46:50

was Michael Jackson and Dad reconcile.

46:54

Superstar and his father secretly meet

46:56

in tear-filled reunion. This

46:58

is a good news story. I would need some details

47:01

to make it work. It plays off the Oprah

47:03

interview where Michael says that his dad abused him as a child.

47:06

It would be a healing story.

47:08

The memo goes on to talk through several

47:10

other story ideas. Another

47:13

one was the secret behind Michael's

47:15

turnaround from Recluse to

47:18

Media Star, the dark depression

47:20

that almost destroyed him and how he beat it.

47:24

And

47:25

it says, as we discuss, this is a fascinating

47:27

story. However, I need some angle

47:29

on it, depression, suicidal feelings,

47:32

the darkest moment, some event, something

47:35

that gives the Enquirer a headline.

47:37

One of the ideas being battered

47:39

around, according to these memos, was

47:41

about Michael Jackson's secret girlfriend,

47:44

an idea seemingly designed to neutralize

47:46

some of the blowback around Michael's changing

47:49

skin color.

47:50

In the Oprah interview, people had found Michael's explanation

47:53

of his skin lightening due to vitiligo to

47:55

be sympathetic, and a new girlfriend,

47:56

particularly if she was black, seemed

47:59

to be black.

47:59

seemed like a good way to capitalize on that goodwill.

48:02

According to Mangatal, the person they were

48:04

planning on pitching as his date was

48:07

Mangatal herself.

48:08

And it says, as we discuss, blacks

48:11

everywhere are applauding Michael for

48:13

finally clearing up all the talk and rumors

48:16

about his skin and the misconception

48:18

that he was trying to be white. This romance

48:21

with me, a black person, would further

48:24

that applause. I would need a good

48:26

quality color picture and some details.

48:28

Not only was Mangatal

48:30

a black woman, but she was a complete unknown.

48:33

Mangatal says Michael's managers knew

48:35

she had a huge crush on him too.

48:38

They just thought it would be the natural thing and

48:40

that I would be the perfect person because I was so

48:42

shy and no one knew who I was. And

48:45

I remember them saying, you know, we just have to get Michael

48:47

to go along with it. So after they had

48:49

this meeting with the inquirer, Jim Morey

48:51

came up to me and he said, you know, it's happening, you

48:54

know, it's gonna happen. And I was just

48:56

so excited. I truly thought that

48:58

that's what was going to happen. I

49:00

was gonna be his, you know, public girlfriend.

49:05

But then

49:06

those Chandler allegations happened and it just

49:08

changed everything.

49:20

On the next episode of Think Twice, Michael Jackson,

49:24

would just been through something that had

49:27

never been experienced before. There

49:29

was no commercial validation that

49:33

the next record would sell.

49:35

Controversy attract attention

49:37

because what the hell, you're

49:40

replacing selling by Michael Jackson. All

49:42

right, everybody, no laughing around here. We're

49:44

here to make a small motion picture

49:47

with a pop star called Michael Jackson.

49:49

No fucking around. And that's when

49:51

I started realizing

49:52

that he had a problem. I

49:54

started thinking, is he on drugs?

50:00

or something?

50:02

Think Twice, Michael Jackson, is a production

50:05

of Audible Originals, Wondery, and Prologue

50:07

projects in partnership with Jigsaw Productions.

50:11

The show is produced by Dustin DeSoto,

50:13

Benjamin Frisch, Danielle Hewitt,

50:15

and Sam Lee. It's produced

50:17

and hosted by Leon Nayfach and me,

50:20

Jay Smooth. Our executive producer

50:22

is Andrew Parsons. Our senior producer

50:24

is Sam Lee. Our editor is Diane

50:27

Hotzen. Our director of editorial

50:29

and strategy is Kim Gittleson. Our production

50:31

manager is Persea Verlin.

50:32

The lead producer on this episode

50:35

was Sam Lee. Production assistance

50:37

by Arlene Arevalo and Lauren Vespoli.

50:40

Fact checking by Katherine Sullivan and

50:42

Lauren Vespoli. Audio

50:45

mix by Michael Rayfield of Hair

50:47

Salon Studio. Our theme song

50:49

was composed by Casa Overall and our score

50:51

was composed by Noah Hecht and Dan English.

50:54

Our intern was Noah John. Production

50:56

coordination by Nick Sotomayor

50:58

for Audible and Candice Manriquez-Ren

51:01

for Wondery. Acquisition

51:02

and development by Zach Ross

51:05

at Audible and Shay Simpson at Wondery.

51:07

The show was executive produced by David Blum,

51:10

Anne Hefferman and Christopher John Farley at Audible

51:12

and Morgan Jones and Lauren D. at Wondery,

51:15

as well as Joey Mara, Stacy Offman and

51:17

Richard Perrallo of Jigsaw Productions.

51:20

Producers for Wondery were Claire Chambers,

51:22

Mandy Goranstein and Grant Rutter. The

51:24

head of Audible Studios is Zola Maschericki.

51:28

The head of production at Audible Studios is

51:30

Mike Charzick. The chief content

51:32

officer at Wondery is Marshall Louis.

51:35

Special thanks to Glenn Brunman, Darryl

51:38

Dennard, Tom Freston, Jerry Hershey

51:40

and Barbara Sternick. Sound recording

51:42

copyright 2023 by Audible Originals, LLC.

51:54

You can binge every episode of Think Twice,

51:56

Michael Jackson, ad free on Amazon

51:58

Music or Audible.

52:00

Download the Amazon Music or Audible app

52:02

today.

52:03

And before you go, tell us about yourself by

52:06

completing a short survey at wondering.com

52:08

slash

52:09

survey.