0:00

This is TWIST.

0:02

This week in

0:05

science episode number

0:07

999.9999999999 infinity recorded

0:10

on Wednesday, January

0:13

15th, 2025. TWIST.

0:15

Out of time. Hey

0:17

everyone, I'm Dr. Kiki

0:20

and tonight we will

0:22

casually fill in your

0:24

head with chatting stories.

0:27

and stuff, but first. Thanks to

0:29

our amazing patron sponsors for

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their generous support of TWIS. You can

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become a part of the patron

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community at patreon.com/This Week

0:39

in Science. Disclaimer, disclaimer!

0:41

This episode is not an episode.

0:43

It was going to be an episode,

0:46

but there was a bump in the road,

0:48

so now what was won't be as it

0:50

were, but will be what is instead, which

0:52

is, which is, which is, which is, which

0:54

is, which is, which is, which is, which

0:56

is, which is,

0:58

This week

1:02

in

1:05

science

1:08

coming

1:12

up

1:15

next

1:35

Good science to you Kiki. And a

1:37

good science to you too Blair and

1:39

everyone out there. Welcome to another

1:41

episode of This Week in Science.

1:44

It's an episode-ish episode light. Not

1:46

really, it's an episode, but not

1:49

really an episode because we can't

1:51

count it because if it does

1:53

count and it doesn't count. Anyway,

1:56

thank you for joining us. We

1:58

have a show ahead. You've

2:01

heard that intro music.

2:03

When did it get

2:05

adopted? When did we start

2:07

with it? Gosh, that, I'm gonna

2:10

have to go back and

2:12

look at when we

2:14

begin with that music.

2:16

Because actually, the Alessandro

2:19

Troiano, who made the

2:21

music, he. changed it and

2:23

gave me an updated version several

2:25

years ago. So it's been around,

2:27

but it was updated at one

2:29

point in time. And yeah. Because

2:31

you were doing it when I

2:34

started in 2012, but I think

2:36

it was kind of new-ish, because

2:38

you had just been releasing the

2:40

CDs for a few years at

2:42

that point? Yes. We went through a

2:44

period of time where we released all

2:46

sorts of fun music CDs and,

2:49

yeah, Tony Steele. He sent a few

2:51

pictures of some of the covers

2:53

that he created for the CDs

2:55

that we made. And last year,

2:57

Michael Garfield, I finally interviewed and

2:59

talked with him on the show,

3:01

and he was actually a piece

3:03

of his music, had been one

3:06

of the CDs years back. There's

3:08

all sorts of stuff. Villetta Stukozi,

3:10

me says, can we sing the

3:12

songs still? Of course you can!

3:14

Sing the songs all the time.

3:16

That's what we want. Yeah, sing

3:18

the songs. Enjoy the evening. We'll

3:20

enjoy some science. So tonight for

3:23

this episode that will be out

3:25

for the podcast world, we aren't

3:27

doing what was planned as was

3:30

advertised, we talked about last week,

3:32

which is that this would be

3:35

our 1,000th episode. Justin is unable

3:37

to make the show and we

3:39

decided it would just absolutely not

3:42

be right for us to move

3:44

on and celebrate 1,000 episodes without

3:46

him. So tonight, we will be.

3:49

Blair and I will be talking

3:51

about things. We're going to be

3:53

chatting with our chat rooms that

3:55

are live with us as we're

3:57

recording this. And we're all gonna

3:59

do something. moving through time

4:01

together this very evening.

4:04

Anything I wanted to

4:06

add about that Blair? No, I

4:08

mean, I just, I'm happy we

4:11

could still be here and

4:13

chat with all of you,

4:15

but I am very excited.

4:17

I started prepping for the

4:20

show 1000 over the last

4:22

week or show or so.

4:24

And I'm pretty excited to share

4:26

some stuff with you all next

4:28

week. So definitely tune in then.

4:30

Yeah, we have done our preparations.

4:32

So there is still a celebration

4:34

and there's a lot of stuff

4:37

to be covered for our history, I

4:39

guess, the celebration of where we've

4:41

been. John Ratnuswami says you should

4:43

tell zoo secrets. Okay, so we'll,

4:45

I think that would be fun

4:47

in a minute. So just here,

4:50

should I keep track of these

4:52

requests here. I'm going to start.

4:54

We definitely need to contact. Yes,

4:56

comments, requests tonight, things that you

4:58

bring up, maybe we can bring

5:00

them into the celebration next week

5:03

if you haven't shared ideas and

5:05

various things with us. So, you

5:07

know, when we have Justin back

5:09

on the show next week, I'd love

5:11

to bring in some of the memories

5:13

you all have. As we jump into

5:15

the show here tonight, I want to

5:17

remind you that if you are.

5:19

Subscribing to TWIS, look for

5:21

This Week in Science on

5:23

your favorite podcast platform, YouTube,

5:26

Facebook, Twitch, and it'll get

5:28

you a new episode every

5:30

time we publish one, and

5:32

we stream live Wednesdays at

5:34

8 p.m.ish, Pacific Time on

5:36

Facebook Twitch and YouTube, and

5:38

you can look for our

5:40

website twis.org for show notes

5:42

and other fun things. But now

5:45

it's time for the things that we

5:47

want to talk about. Yeah, I mean

5:49

we brought a little bit of science news.

5:51

I think so normally in our

5:54

prediction show, we would go over last

5:56

year's predictions. We do our

5:58

predictions for this year. and time

6:00

permitting. We would do maybe

6:02

a couple stories from the

6:04

week's news, not to lose

6:06

track of the twists of

6:08

it all. So obviously our

6:10

science news that Kiki and

6:13

I found for this week

6:15

would be stale next week.

6:17

So we had to use

6:19

it before it all went

6:21

bad, expired. So it's got

6:23

to be this week inside.

6:25

So we do a few

6:27

things that we wanted to

6:29

bring just for fun. This,

6:31

what would we say, Schrodinger's

6:33

cat time in science? I

6:35

have no idea. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

6:37

All my stories, though, I

6:39

really, because science stuff right

6:41

now, things are very, I

6:43

don't know, weird in the

6:45

world of information on the

6:47

internet. And it's been, I

6:49

guess, when I was looking

6:51

at, you know, preparing for...

6:53

1,000, I was going back

6:55

through all the years of,

6:57

you know, the science that

6:59

we've covered and the people

7:01

that we've interviewed on so

7:04

many topics. And this last

7:06

week, the palisades fire, the

7:08

eaten fire, the basically, LA

7:10

burning is a huge thing.

7:12

And there's a lot of

7:14

misinformation going out regarding that

7:16

right now. And it really

7:18

struck me that. As this

7:20

is happening, we have been

7:22

talking about this issue on

7:24

the show for over two

7:26

decades. And we've been talking

7:28

with people about the wise

7:30

and the house and the,

7:32

you know, ever, climate change,

7:34

climate change, not just fires,

7:36

climate change, climate change, climate

7:38

change, climate change, we've been

7:40

talking about it for a

7:42

very long time. And it's,

7:44

it's, Interesting to see the

7:46

commentary of reporters on Blue

7:48

Sky and other places saying,

7:50

you know, it's not that

7:52

hard to connect the wildfires

7:55

with climate change anymore. You

7:57

should be doing that. in

7:59

your paper, in an article

8:01

you wrote, you should say

8:03

that, you know. And it is

8:05

situational because the climate's

8:07

been changing. Everything's been

8:09

shifting around. And yet

8:11

at the same time, we're in

8:14

this space where we are

8:16

privileged enough to have gathered

8:18

this wonderful, wonderful community of

8:21

people that trust us to

8:23

tell them about stuff and

8:25

talk about stuff to ask

8:27

questions. And yet in the

8:29

world. of social media,

8:32

the idea of credibility

8:34

and trustworthiness and verifying

8:36

sources and truth. It's

8:38

getting harder and harder

8:40

to do and Facebook,

8:42

you know, wants to

8:44

go, they won't, I

8:46

don't know, Zuck wants

8:48

everyone to man up

8:51

and, you know, find your

8:53

own truth, bro. So it's

8:55

very interesting time. to be

8:58

having this, you know, this, this

9:00

reminiscence of going back

9:03

and looking at

9:05

everything that we've talked

9:07

about for so long and

9:10

how things are, how things

9:12

are playing out. And I

9:14

don't know, everybody out there. Are

9:16

you, where are you? Are

9:18

you off social media? Are

9:20

you some of the people

9:22

who have, are you deleting

9:24

your accounts? Are you moving

9:26

to other accounts? What are

9:29

you doing? How are you

9:31

deciding what you trust? There's

9:33

a study that's out this

9:35

last week in Ploss Climate,

9:37

researchers out of Boston, networks

9:39

of climate obstruction, discourses of

9:41

denial and delay in US

9:43

fossil energy plastic and agricultural,

9:45

agrichemical industries. And they

9:47

looked at Twitter or social

9:49

media renamed X.

9:51

They explored a bunch of

9:54

tweets, the messages that were

9:56

going out, and what was

9:59

happening. They looked at the

10:01

text of tweets from two

10:03

of the largest U.S. corporations

10:06

and a major trade association

10:08

for each of these sectors,

10:10

and they found coordinated messaging

10:13

and identified synergistic themes among

10:15

the three networks. So basically

10:17

what they've been able to

10:20

determine is that it suggests

10:22

that There are discourses to

10:24

deny and delay climate policy.

10:26

They're aligned and coordinated across

10:29

the sectors to reinforce existing

10:31

infrastructure and inhibit change. We've

10:33

talked about this before, but

10:36

this is yet another study

10:38

that uses the information that

10:40

has been available to the

10:43

public to be able to

10:45

make the evidence a little

10:47

bit stronger. Exceptions emerged for

10:49

some sector specific goals, so

10:52

contrasting messages about biofuel. There

10:54

were some other disparate views

10:56

related to policy priorities, but

10:59

similar efforts to reinforce existing

11:01

extractive petrochemical hegemony and to

11:03

undermine climate policy. So there

11:06

is... There's work being done,

11:08

everybody behind the scenes that

11:10

is influencing what you see

11:12

in the social media's. And

11:15

if it's from accounts or

11:17

shared by accounts that you

11:19

trust or you don't trust,

11:22

the discourse is going to

11:24

become ever more difficult to

11:26

parse. And the idea that

11:29

there is movement and a

11:31

certain amount of synchronization between

11:33

these areas suggests that, you

11:35

know, we should really think

11:38

about this whole information economy.

11:40

I don't know. And now,

11:42

brands are like, hey, journalists,

11:45

you're fired now. Come work

11:47

for our marketing department. So

11:49

I, this is so tough.

11:52

for so many reasons, but

11:54

at the heart of it

11:56

is, the more I learn

11:58

every day about what corporations

12:01

and billionaires do. The more

12:03

it feels like I'm going

12:05

insane because it all sounds

12:08

like conspiracy theories. It sounds

12:10

like a conspiracy theory and

12:12

we spend so much time

12:15

debunking conspiracy theories on the

12:17

show. But the more we

12:19

learn about what corporations are

12:21

doing the conspiracies are true

12:24

and it makes me feel

12:26

like I'm going crazy. Like

12:28

I just learned about how

12:31

Nestle... lobb lobbies against paid

12:33

parental leave so that you

12:35

will buy more formula from

12:38

them. Like, it's just all

12:40

of these things that sound

12:42

like you're connecting the dots

12:44

on some whiteboard with string

12:47

and you're like, it's all

12:49

connected and you should be

12:51

on like the ancient alien

12:54

show and it's real. And

12:56

it's real. Like, oh, did

12:58

you know that all the

13:01

oil companies are hiring old

13:03

journalists to... rant on Twitter

13:05

about climate change denials so

13:07

that we all get complacent.

13:10

No, it's real. And now

13:12

you don't even have to

13:14

hire people. They're doing AI

13:17

to distract us from these

13:19

other things. It's real. I'm

13:21

sorry. I'm getting, yeah, it's

13:24

all ridiculous. And yes, you

13:26

can, you can hire an

13:28

AI now to. misinformation while

13:30

feeding climate change because AI

13:33

is terrible for the environment.

13:35

So like, I'm, I'm sorry,

13:37

this is too much. I

13:40

know. So what I, what

13:42

I really, uh, recently, I

13:44

don't know how many out

13:47

there have been watching, have

13:49

watched the Saturday Night movie

13:51

about the first episode of

13:53

Saturday Night Live. I

13:56

watched it, I think I told you

13:58

this, after the show last week, Blair.

14:00

Yeah. Watch. it, loved it. It was

14:02

so great. I mean, I know it's

14:04

a fictional reinterpretation of, you know, that

14:07

whatever that environment was

14:09

that got Saturday Night

14:11

Live going, but it inspired

14:13

my husband and I to

14:15

start watching the old episodes

14:17

of Saturday Night Live, starting

14:20

at the first episode. My gosh.

14:22

1974, the year of my birth. I

14:24

had no idea. There were so many

14:26

jokes. about then President

14:28

Gerald Ford. So many

14:31

jokes about share and

14:33

her breakup with Sunny

14:35

Bono and then like

14:37

getting together. Anyway, these

14:39

jokes that I didn't

14:41

understand the context to

14:43

sent me down historical

14:46

contextual rabbit holes that

14:48

informed me on a

14:50

bunch of things. And I

14:53

just one good kind of.

14:55

silver lining to it is

14:57

the information ecosystem is a

14:59

lot more complex now and

15:02

it's going to become more

15:04

and more complex but

15:07

the the issues and the

15:09

stuff that's going on it

15:11

hasn't changed. I mean honestly

15:13

it's the it is seriously there

15:16

was a series of

15:18

jokes about Gerald Ford

15:20

because New York City

15:22

was going bankrupt. New

15:25

York City was going bankrupt

15:27

because of a variety of

15:29

things that occurred up until

15:32

that year. They asked

15:34

for governmental help so

15:36

that they, you know. a bailout

15:38

so that they would not go

15:41

bankrupt. And it was the time

15:43

of the ascendancy of Anne Randian

15:45

economics and philosophy and the Keynesian

15:48

kind of economics were less in

15:50

favor in the government at that

15:52

particular. Yes, John Ratnuswami, Greg Allman,

15:55

yes, the Allman Band, thank you

15:57

very much. That was a whole share

15:59

thing. Very interesting. And

16:02

so Gerald Ford listened

16:05

to his advisors who said,

16:07

don't give New York

16:09

money. Make them figure

16:11

it out. Make them cut

16:13

social programs. They give too

16:15

much money to the people

16:17

who work hard and pay

16:19

taxes in New York. And

16:21

so no, Gerald said, nope.

16:23

and New York City was

16:25

really mad for a while.

16:27

Eventually, eventually he bent to

16:30

pressure and did help out,

16:32

but there were caveats and

16:34

by then New York City

16:36

had already implemented severe cuts

16:38

to its budget to be

16:40

able to make way. And

16:42

I'm watching the same thing

16:44

happen. The wildfires in California

16:47

and the conversation is already

16:49

happening. Let's stop. We're not

16:52

going to subsidize. We're not

16:54

going to bail out California

16:56

when California needs help because

16:58

they're definitely going to go

17:01

into debt because this no, we're

17:03

not going to help. No money.

17:05

Right. It's so I'm, there's so

17:07

many interesting things going on now that

17:10

happened then and I am, I

17:12

recommend a trip down memory lane that

17:14

is funny. You know, humor and

17:16

then you'll be like, oh, why

17:19

did they say that? And what

17:21

happened then and what's

17:23

going on there? And, you

17:25

know, it's, I'm really enjoying

17:28

it. Interesting. Yeah.

17:30

I also, I don't know,

17:32

Candace Bergen, they really are

17:34

into Candace Bergen. Oh, yeah.

17:36

Oh, yeah. Also, who knew

17:38

Paul Simon could play

17:41

basketball? What? Okay, you

17:43

need to watch it.

17:46

Goodness. Yes, Exalibur's engineering.

17:48

It's not new, of

17:50

course, look up National

17:53

Street car lines for

17:55

why we don't have

17:57

light rail anymore. Yeah.

17:59

Yeah. There's so there's

18:01

so much why don't we have

18:04

light rail? Why can't we have

18:06

more things? Like I think there's

18:08

a what did I read about

18:10

today? There's a rail system

18:12

that doesn't need rails. It's

18:14

like it stays within its

18:17

little lines Oh geez you

18:19

don't yeah, so you don't

18:21

have to actually install rails.

18:23

It's streetcars, but not a

18:25

rail system. So easier to

18:28

implement Well, yeah. I

18:30

don't know Blair. Are you

18:32

staying on the things?

18:34

I mean, no, not

18:36

really. I'm pretty much

18:38

just lurking on Facebook

18:40

and Instagram right now.

18:42

I definitely stopped using

18:44

X for obvious reasons.

18:46

Yeah. I logged into Twitter

18:49

last night. specifically to

18:51

pull tweets to look at for

18:53

the thousandth show. So that is

18:55

honestly the only reason I haven't

18:57

completely deleted my Twitter accounts is

19:00

because I don't want to lose the

19:02

record. You don't want to lose the

19:04

record and also you don't want to

19:06

lose the handle because... Exactly. Yeah,

19:09

I don't want somebody else to take

19:11

it and do something with it that

19:13

I don't approve of. So yes,

19:15

so I have kept... Twitter on

19:17

life support for that reason but

19:20

I'm not using it. Facebook I

19:22

don't know what to do now

19:24

because there's just some things you

19:26

can't get from anywhere else

19:28

than Facebook like you know I

19:30

have random family that the only

19:32

way I know what's going on with them

19:35

is through Facebook stuff like that

19:37

just it feels bad but I

19:39

don't I don't scroll through Facebook

19:41

I don't do that at all because

19:43

it's just adds pretty much

19:45

Right. And I think there is

19:48

a place to, you know,

19:50

not completely delete your

19:52

accounts and your connections

19:54

at this point in

19:56

time. You know, you

19:59

can actively. not support

20:01

the advertising

20:04

that is delivered

20:06

to you. There are ways

20:09

to subvert the

20:11

dominant paradigm

20:14

from within it

20:17

and to use

20:19

these platforms in

20:21

ways that are less,

20:24

I guess, you know,

20:26

less for as a, as

20:28

a pawn of. the platform.

20:30

So that you, you know, if you go there

20:32

and are just like, you know, getting mad

20:34

at everything, everybody's posting, I mean,

20:37

maybe it shouldn't be there in the

20:39

first place. But if you're going out

20:41

to look at find baby pictures and

20:43

find out of people are, I've been

20:46

going because I know people are posting

20:48

about the fire and I want to

20:50

see who I know who is safe

20:52

or has lost a house and,

20:54

you know, and I think that's important.

20:57

And we need these kinds of things.

21:00

Well, actually, yeah, we could figure

21:02

out different ways to do this. I

21:05

don't know. It could be better. There

21:07

are other people are coming up with

21:09

new solutions all the time, and maybe

21:11

the blue sky architecture is the way

21:13

it's going to go. The federated

21:15

blue sky, open source, no billionaire

21:18

can control it kind of way,

21:20

but then it doesn't. Just like.

21:22

collect everyone there was mastodon there's

21:25

threat like there's just there keeps

21:27

being things like you going like

21:29

is this gonna be the one

21:31

is this gonna be the one

21:33

like when do I jump like

21:36

so yeah Fada is saying recommend

21:38

recommending blue sky and I wish I

21:40

could find my login information blue

21:42

sky and which I could find my

21:45

login information for twists for

21:47

our blue sky account because

21:50

I did make this

21:52

weekend science blue sky account

21:54

and I can't access it

21:57

anymore and I know

21:59

but But I like Blue Sky

22:01

because it feels a lot like

22:03

early Twitter at this point in

22:05

time before, before, before, before, when

22:08

you just got to talk to

22:10

scientists one-on-one. That was so fun.

22:12

And that's where it is now.

22:14

And David Schiffman and ask him

22:16

about sharks. Like, what happened to

22:18

that? He's on Blue Sky. You

22:20

can go do that now. So,

22:22

I'm on Blue Sky. I really

22:25

like it. I don't. I don't

22:27

engage as much as I could

22:29

because I'm kind of not engaging

22:31

in the social media stuff as

22:33

much for my mental health. It

22:35

takes so much care and feeding

22:37

is the problem. Like I think

22:39

that's where I kind of lost

22:41

interest too is where the analytic

22:44

became so important. And if you

22:46

didn't do things exactly right, nobody

22:48

would see your stuff anyway. It's

22:50

kind like that. Yeah,

22:52

so that is the difference

22:54

where blues guys still you

22:56

have to engage, you have

22:59

to get like you have

23:01

to work work it, but

23:03

there's not an algorithm that's

23:05

deciding who's important and who's

23:07

not. It is a timeline.

23:09

And so when you post,

23:11

if people see it and

23:14

they like it, then they

23:16

get shared and re shared

23:18

or you can reshare later,

23:20

you know, so there are

23:22

ways to. You know be

23:24

out there. I don't know

23:27

interesting tick-talk. That's a whole

23:29

other thing John Ratniswami is

23:31

talking. Well, it might be

23:33

gone in a couple days

23:35

anyway. Yeah, so this I

23:37

mean we're science, but this

23:40

for me is very important

23:42

because tick-talk actually developed a

23:44

very active science communication community.

23:46

They actively reached out to

23:48

find science information creators. They

23:50

funded them. They started pay

23:53

like they brought people in

23:55

to talk about science on

23:57

TikTok and there are a

23:59

lot of people there and

24:01

it's become this big thing

24:03

where people don't do it

24:06

as much on Instagram or

24:08

any other outlet they're doing.

24:10

they're doing their communication on

24:12

TikTok and they've been able

24:14

to make it work. And

24:16

so I find what's gonna

24:19

happen with TikTok. Very interesting

24:21

for this particular reason. But

24:23

additionally, reading about how people

24:25

are maybe leaving TikTok, joining

24:27

another Chinese app that thing.

24:29

Everybody's like, yay, oh, okay,

24:31

I'm learning Mandarin now, and

24:34

that's great. Yeah, Sunday the

24:36

19th, we'll see what happens.

24:38

The updates to the TikTok

24:40

thingy and the downloads of

24:42

Tiktok, that's not going to

24:44

happen right away. I'm fascinated

24:47

to see what happens here.

24:49

All I have to say

24:51

is if anybody is creating

24:53

content or getting any content

24:55

from these little... these platforms.

24:57

And you have to look

25:00

at, you have to be

25:02

on all of it. You

25:04

have to be out. You

25:06

have to. I'm not a

25:08

tick-tucker. I'm not a You-tuber.

25:10

I'm not a podcaster. I

25:13

am a communicator. I want

25:15

I'm, I want science conversation.

25:17

I want understanding discussion discourse.

25:20

I refuse to be defined

25:22

by a platform and the

25:24

fact that people are allowing

25:27

themselves to be demeaned as

25:29

influencers or, you know, there's

25:31

very, very great people who

25:34

call themselves YouTubeers. I think

25:36

they are belittling themselves and

25:38

drink more wine. Well, I

25:41

mean, yeah, it's if you

25:43

kind of paint yourself into

25:45

a corner. with one app

25:48

or one platform then that

25:50

that definitely limits your ability.

25:52

Oh right. Yeah, we have

25:55

John Ratnuswami who's saying about

25:57

70 to 80% of the

25:59

best Twitter accounts that he

26:02

followed are on Blue Sky

26:04

now and then Veletas is

26:06

saying many of the Tiktak

26:09

people are trying to come

26:11

to YouTube and it's sad

26:13

to see them suffering losing

26:16

their audiences because it's hard

26:18

to take your audience to

26:20

a new platform. Like we

26:23

went through this. Like

26:25

even though we've been, you

26:27

know, the podcasting and everything,

26:29

but with live streaming, like

26:31

we went through this at

26:33

the end when, when, when,

26:35

when we had to leave

26:37

Twit, a lot of people,

26:39

even now, go, oh my

26:42

gosh, you're still on the

26:44

air? I thought that you

26:46

ended when you left Twit.

26:48

Even though we're sending our

26:50

messages, trying to keep in

26:52

touch, do it, you know,

26:54

nope. It's just, it's so

26:56

hard. Especially when you're, you

26:58

know, you don't have like

27:00

the bazillion dollar media budget

27:02

to do all of the

27:04

conversations and marketing to make

27:06

the connections. Yeah, I don't

27:08

know. I want the tick-talk

27:11

people, especially the science community.

27:13

I, if there's any way

27:15

that I can help. I

27:17

would love to help them

27:19

make transitions to different platforms.

27:21

I don't know how exactly

27:23

I can do that, but

27:25

I would love to be

27:27

a helper in this case

27:29

because, you know, there is

27:31

good communication going on out

27:33

there and we need it.

27:35

We're going to need more

27:38

and more and we're going

27:40

to need trusted people. I've

27:42

been very happy with I

27:44

mean you have to be

27:46

a skeptic, you have to

27:48

be a skeptic, but I've

27:50

gotten so much good parenting

27:52

advice, baby advice, like all

27:54

this stuff over the last

27:56

year and a half via,

27:58

what are they called, real.

28:00

on Instagram. Yeah. Excellence of

28:02

and before that I got

28:04

labor coach tidbits before

28:07

I gave birth all through Instagram

28:09

and there were things that

28:12

I used in labor that

28:14

I learned by watching Instagram

28:16

reels. Now there's also people

28:18

going on there telling you

28:21

to eat moldy food because it's

28:23

good for you and do other

28:25

crazy things that are just absolutely,

28:27

you know, feed your child a

28:29

lemon when they're six months old

28:32

or you know, just crazy stuff

28:34

that you're like, okay, well, I

28:36

know that you're full of it, but

28:38

does everyone know that you're

28:40

full of it? And how is

28:42

this allowed to continue? And this

28:44

is part of where the like

28:47

the fact checking piece gets really

28:49

scary is if you can't report

28:51

a video for giving dangerous content

28:53

out to people, then then what?

28:55

Then how much what percentage of

28:58

my content that I'm seeing is

29:00

BS. Yes. And also how many

29:02

people are seeing that and then

29:04

doing things that are dangerous? Yeah.

29:06

And a lot of people, you know,

29:08

the... I hope that we

29:11

allow people to challenge their beliefs

29:13

and learn new things and maybe,

29:15

you know, get upset at us

29:17

sometimes and then go, oh yeah,

29:19

okay, well, but I like that

29:21

question, so I'll come back and

29:24

listen to more. You know, like, it's

29:26

like, I want to be the friend

29:28

who is there to constantly like

29:30

poke you with a stick and

29:33

you kind of like it. But

29:35

not everybody likes that right you want

29:38

the information that reinforces who you are

29:40

and reinforces how easy it is to

29:42

Lose weight or be healthy or you

29:44

know this way if I just do

29:46

this one thing and oh if I

29:49

listen to this person. Oh, they made

29:51

me feel so special I'm part of

29:53

a special club and Yeah, by the way

29:55

everyone right here right now. You're all

29:58

part of a special club. Yeah You

30:00

know, but there is good.

30:02

There's so much good

30:04

out there. And I think

30:07

people who are already

30:09

ready to be skeptical

30:12

understand the

30:15

reasons to be skeptical who

30:17

understand how to find or,

30:19

you know, verify sources to.

30:22

ask, go, wait a minute,

30:24

is that right? And then

30:26

go down a rabbit hole

30:28

and find other information and

30:30

go down, you know, find

30:33

other ways of looking at

30:35

a question. You're there already.

30:37

I don't need to tell you again

30:39

to verify your sources, do this,

30:41

do that, you know, but it's

30:44

the question of how do we

30:46

talk to those, the people who

30:48

are getting the videos, the reals,

30:50

the whatever they are, of the, you

30:52

know, eat the moldy stuff. And how

30:54

do you, how do you be the creator

30:56

that says, hey, don't eat the

30:58

moldy stuff, right? And then actually

31:00

get it into their feed, right?

31:02

Right. You know, how do you

31:04

make what you make? Getting their

31:06

feed so they see what you have

31:08

to say. And you're not attacking

31:11

them. You don't, you can't say, don't

31:13

believe this. This is wrong,

31:15

because maybe they believe it

31:18

for some other reason. There's

31:20

you had. It's like all

31:22

of the emotional stuff and

31:25

everything. John Ratnisswami is saying

31:27

raw milk. People are

31:29

identifying with, you know, organic, natural,

31:32

like, ways of living. They

31:34

want their raw milk. They

31:37

want non-pasturized things. They want

31:39

to be close to

31:41

the land and close to

31:43

nature. And that's dangerous

31:46

right now, you know. That

31:48

raw milk's gonna give him

31:51

bird bird flu truth My

31:53

I remembered my favorite one.

31:55

This is when I was

31:57

still I think I think

32:00

my little one was like two

32:02

months old, three months old. No,

32:04

I guess a little older than

32:06

that because we were talking about

32:08

starting to feed him solids. And

32:10

so I saw this video on

32:12

Instagram of somebody who took a

32:14

high power magnet through their baby's

32:16

oatmeal. and a bunch of metal

32:18

shavings came out. Oh, but it's

32:20

as iron. Yeah, but I don't,

32:23

I did, you know, I did

32:25

like a food science video on

32:27

this. Yes, it's really easy everyone.

32:29

Yes, so, so I saw that

32:31

and I was like, oh, that's

32:33

obviously like fake. And then I

32:35

saw it again, and then I

32:37

was like, oh. Excuse me, what

32:39

is this? And of course, remember

32:41

I'm sleeping like 90 hour, 90

32:44

minute chunks at this point, right?

32:46

So my brain is only half

32:48

present. And that's true for most

32:50

of the people those, those videos

32:52

are targeted to because they have

32:54

a baby. And so I was

32:56

like, what the heck? And so

32:58

I started doing research into it.

33:00

And then I went. Oh duh,

33:02

it's fortified with iron. It's supposed

33:05

to have that in there. That's

33:07

the whole point. Great, but you're

33:09

able to pull yourself together and

33:11

get that, whereas, you know, other

33:13

people don't have the basis of

33:15

knowledge necessarily to understand that. Yeah,

33:21

and I mean, it comes down

33:23

to, you know, do you have

33:25

the time, the background, the energy,

33:28

the motivation to actually question the

33:30

things that people say. And right,

33:32

especially a person that you decided

33:35

that you trust. And I really,

33:37

really do hope that people go,

33:39

hey, you said this thing on

33:42

the show. Oh, well, and then

33:44

if you're curious, go look it

33:47

up. That's what this is all

33:49

about. I'm not here to tell

33:51

you things that are going to

33:54

just like, you should live your

33:56

life this way. That's not why

33:58

I do that. I mean that's

34:01

why Blair's here.

34:03

Okay I've been like

34:06

you know ranting this

34:08

is like you know the

34:11

one of the rare

34:13

times that Kiki goes on

34:15

a rant but there

34:17

is there there's

34:19

work to do I believe

34:22

that we're a part of

34:24

a fabric of bolstering

34:27

you know the the

34:30

ability of people to

34:33

understand things and that's,

34:35

you know, it takes a

34:37

village and hopefully there's,

34:39

you know, ways to move

34:41

forward that include

34:44

educating, beginning at

34:46

very young ages, everyone

34:48

on the ways to

34:51

verify sources and to

34:53

understand the media that they

34:55

are consuming from a

34:57

very young age. The Youngens

34:59

of today will grow up

35:02

knowing not to trust, hopefully,

35:04

not to trust anything from

35:06

certain platforms because there is no

35:08

fact checking. I think that is the

35:10

thing that you have to like take

35:12

away from this is just like, okay,

35:14

social media equals lies. Sorry, you

35:16

cannot believe a single thing that

35:18

you read there. It's like back

35:20

when you used to be able

35:23

to edit, anyone could edit Wikipedia.

35:25

back then, right? Right, right? When

35:27

anyone could edit Wikipedia and you

35:29

could go and you could change

35:31

the page on elephants and say

35:33

they were a reptile, you could not

35:35

use Wikipedia for anything. And

35:38

they figured out how to

35:40

create a fact-checking system, create

35:42

verified contributors, do all sorts

35:45

of checks and balances. So

35:47

that by and large, Wikipedia

35:49

is pretty accurate now. Still,

35:52

we use Wikipedia as the

35:54

basis for the start of

35:56

what you're looking at, not

35:58

the ultimate. that the source

36:01

material is this Wikipedia article

36:03

just citing somebody's blog based

36:05

on nothing right so you

36:07

have to you have to

36:09

do that kind of second

36:11

level research but it's still

36:14

much more reliable than it

36:16

used to be this feels

36:18

like we're moving backwards there

36:20

were checks and balances and

36:22

we're removing them so now

36:24

everyone anything on Facebook garbage

36:27

no facts Also, doesn't have

36:29

to be your actual uncle,

36:31

maybe somebody stole his profile,

36:33

and it's not even him.

36:35

So take anything that he

36:37

posts with the great assault.

36:40

It's not even like, you

36:42

know, flyers on telephone poles

36:44

or, you know, pamphlets that

36:46

people are handing out. It's

36:48

with the account mimicry and

36:50

the way that that works,

36:53

that's even more dangerous. I

36:55

don't know. This feels like

36:57

a desperate move though, honestly.

36:59

It seems like it's the

37:01

decision made by somebody who

37:03

needs to pander to the

37:06

new administration because he should

37:08

be in trouble for something.

37:10

I don't know what it

37:12

is. Something. But there was

37:14

a favor that needed to

37:16

be curried. Again, see I'm

37:19

talking about conspiracy theories that

37:21

are most likely true. So

37:23

this is the world that

37:25

we live in now. It's

37:27

so weird, right? Like you

37:29

said. I've been forever being

37:31

like, no, that's a conspiracy

37:34

theory. That's like, yeah, so

37:36

fringe and so way out,

37:38

no way, no way. And

37:40

now I'm, this billionaire is

37:42

currying favors with the new

37:44

president because he did something

37:47

that he doesn't want us

37:49

to know about. That sounds

37:51

like a conspiracy theory, but

37:53

it's probably accurate. Which is

37:55

why I am learning more

37:57

about politics, human behavior, social

38:00

sciences, and, um. I'm very

38:02

interested in the movement of

38:04

civic science, which is the

38:06

effort to try and get

38:08

individuals within our society more

38:10

involved. in not just using

38:13

science and seeing it as

38:15

facts or getting the products

38:17

of it, but the ultimate

38:19

act of creation. So communities

38:21

working with individual, like being

38:23

stakeholders, being part of the

38:26

conversation, being part of the

38:28

questions that are being asked

38:30

so that needs are fulfilled,

38:32

and it's not just like,

38:34

I found a thing, you

38:36

know. Anyways, civic science, it's

38:39

a... I don't know if

38:41

I necessarily like the term,

38:43

but it is the term

38:45

right now, and the idea

38:47

is something important. Science with

38:49

society, with science. It's an

38:52

endless loop, everyone. Do you

38:54

want to talk about some

38:56

fun science instead of me

38:58

just ranting about? Do you

39:00

want to do you want

39:02

to ask people questions? Oh,

39:04

I can, uh, either way,

39:07

do you want to hear

39:09

about some bugs? I love

39:11

bugs. Tell me about bugs.

39:13

Do you want to hear

39:15

about answer spiders? Hmm, which,

39:17

let's, uh, um, I love

39:20

them both Blair. Okay, pick

39:22

one. You choose, who, what

39:24

does the audience want? Yeah,

39:26

audience, ants or spiders? No

39:28

more information. That's all the

39:30

information you get. You have

39:33

to pick just ants or

39:35

spiders. Spiders said Paul Disney.

39:37

Spiders first. Oh ants? One

39:39

in one. I need a

39:41

time breaker. Third vote gets

39:43

it. Ants. Oh, Ants on

39:46

the landslide. Okay. And, oh,

39:48

three to one. Ants were

39:50

spiders, David. Okay, as the

39:52

votes come in, Ants are

39:54

winning right now. Okay, great.

39:56

Ants, it is, hey, Ants,

39:59

hold grudges. What? Yeah,

40:01

that's the whole story. What?

40:03

Here's the nitty gritty

40:05

of it. Ants learn

40:08

from experience. That's what

40:10

this research figured out.

40:13

So, ants, sometimes they're

40:15

aggressive to each other.

40:18

Sometimes they're not.

40:20

They did some

40:22

lab experiments to figure

40:24

out why. And in

40:27

previous... research has

40:29

shown that ants that

40:31

live near another nest.

40:33

The sorry Ant 1

40:35

versus Ant 2. Here's

40:37

the problem. Ants

40:40

and Ants and Ants.

40:42

I have three categories of

40:44

ants. How do I

40:46

explain this? So we

40:48

have our home nest.

40:50

Okay. We'll call those

40:52

nest A. Okay, then

40:55

there's Nest B that's

40:57

next to Nest A. And

40:59

then there's Nest C.

41:01

Yes, there's Nest C

41:03

villages. Yeah, right. Exactly.

41:05

That's very far away from

41:07

Nest A. Okay. Now

41:09

in previous studies, researchers

41:11

have shown that ants behave

41:14

more aggressively towards nearest

41:16

neighbors. So when we're

41:19

talking about the ants in in

41:21

Nest A. They are more aggressive

41:23

towards ants from nest

41:26

B than ants from

41:28

nest C Yep, why it's

41:30

closer? Why though? Why would

41:32

close? Why would they

41:35

be more aggressive to

41:37

close? Food resources. They're

41:39

trying to like maintain

41:42

their territory There

41:44

so it's purely turns

41:46

out it's purely the

41:48

amount of exposure I

41:50

see you all the time

41:53

so I don't like you.

41:55

Yes. Yes. Yes. What?

41:57

Yeah. So, oh my gosh.

41:59

took these ants they threw them

42:02

in a lab and so basically

42:04

doing ants isn't easy so that's

42:06

right yeah I mean you really

42:09

got to wind up they they

42:11

just the ants they saw more

42:13

often were the ones that they

42:16

were more aggressive towards so it's

42:18

not even like I see you

42:20

more often so I know you

42:23

hey friend No, it's I see

42:25

more often get the heck out

42:27

of here, which probably like you

42:30

said Kiki has to do with

42:32

resources But then they took this

42:34

a step further. You're like why

42:37

why are they more aggressive toward

42:39

the ants that they see more

42:41

often? And it's because there's just

42:44

more likelihood of them being aggressive

42:46

in other interactions. So basically if

42:48

I see you 20 times, you

42:51

might cuss me out once, and

42:53

if I only see you once,

42:55

you're likely to be nice to

42:58

me, right? So it's a probability

43:00

issue. And so basically once there

43:02

is aggressive behavior between the ants,

43:04

they hold a grudge. So the

43:07

way that they figured this out

43:09

was by cutting off some ants

43:11

and tenets that made them act

43:14

passive because they were basically blind.

43:16

I mean, they like, they couldn't

43:18

really hear what was going on.

43:21

So they were just right. The

43:23

antennae are important for them sensing

43:25

their environment. And yeah. So when

43:28

they cut off the antenna, they

43:30

didn't start a fight. So then

43:32

they had equal amounts of exposure,

43:35

but the passive ants did not

43:37

get attacked. Only the aggressive ants

43:39

got attacked. So really it is

43:42

just they're holding a grudge. Probability

43:44

says if you're more likely to

43:46

get in a fight. Therefore, you're

43:49

more likely to be somebody they

43:51

would hold a grudge from. Each

43:53

nest has a chemical signature and

43:56

sense that chemical signature with their

43:58

antenna. So once they meet one

44:00

ant from Nest B, they're like,

44:02

all you or jerks. So basically

44:05

that's what happened. Ants hold a

44:07

grudge. They learn from experience. That's

44:09

the like sciencey way of saying

44:12

that they hold a grudge. And

44:14

so, you know, as one of

44:16

the researchers said, ants and other

44:19

insects aren't robots. They're not pre-programmed.

44:21

They learn from experience. They adapt.

44:23

So there you go. Ants hold

44:26

a grudge. I think

44:28

that's one of those interesting

44:30

conclusions or, you know, the

44:33

ideas that come out of

44:35

it because we think of

44:37

colony creatures, colonial creatures as

44:39

kind of like just parts

44:42

of a whole. You never,

44:44

the idea that they can

44:46

be individuals and have their

44:49

own responses that are, that

44:51

aren't just programmed, they're not

44:53

just automata is. Not something

44:55

that's the story's been, the

44:58

story hasn't been seriously told

45:00

that way, except for like,

45:02

I think, what was it,

45:05

the movie ants, which really

45:07

wasn't that good anyway. Talk

45:09

about the Woody Allen, canceled

45:11

Woody Allen, metal movies canceled.

45:14

Meanwhile, Bug's Life came out

45:16

that year, also had Kevin

45:18

Spacey in it, canceled. So,

45:21

Bug Movies's O for Two,

45:23

gotta say. Animated bug movies.

45:25

Yeah. Oopsy, oopsy. That's fun.

45:27

David Haas says, reminds me

45:30

of picky blinders, but for

45:32

ants. Sure. Man. All right.

45:34

So now what we can

45:37

do to get rid of

45:39

the ant colonies under our

45:41

houses and the sugar ants

45:44

is find more ants. The

45:46

ants they don't like. Have

45:48

a war. It'll be great.

45:50

Oh. Yeah, anyway, and then

45:53

real quick story on spiders

45:55

while we're on it. They

45:57

can smell with their legs

46:02

What? Yeah. How does how does

46:04

spiders smell anyway? Like those

46:06

talk about their hydrostatic

46:09

or they're they have

46:11

an exoskeleton. So they're

46:13

hydrostatic. They all these.

46:15

Uh-huh. And yeah, please explain.

46:18

Researchers have been puzzled

46:20

by how spiders detect

46:22

odors. They know that they

46:24

do because they respond to

46:27

sex pheromones. Sex pheromones that

46:29

have been. fully analyzed and

46:32

reconstructed in the lab.

46:34

So they're real, they're

46:36

part of the deal. But they

46:38

don't have antenna, which as

46:40

we just discussed is how

46:42

insects sense pheromones or other

46:45

smells. They also appear to

46:47

lack wall-poor scensilla, which

46:49

is the specialized structures

46:51

on an insect's body

46:53

that they rely on

46:55

for smell. Like little

46:57

baby antenna all over

46:59

their bodies. Exactly. But

47:01

hey, researchers found

47:04

Walpur Sansila all over

47:06

their legs. Oh. Yeah,

47:08

on male wasp spiders,

47:11

Argyopi briniki. Yeah,

47:13

you're welcome. Got

47:15

had to bring a little

47:18

Justin here with me,

47:21

right? They can use

47:23

them to detect airborne

47:26

sex phehrmones with high

47:28

sensitivity. is only in

47:31

males, they are different

47:34

structures from those

47:36

found in insects

47:39

and other arthropods,

47:41

and they are found in

47:44

a lot of spiders,

47:46

but not in some

47:48

of the basal

47:50

species, like trapdoor

47:52

spiders, which means

47:55

it is most

47:57

likely a convergent

47:59

trait. don't know how females

48:01

smell. This is still a mystery.

48:03

Yeah, how do, yeah, females, do

48:06

they smell? Do they not? Why,

48:08

I mean, would they only, why

48:10

would they, why would they, why

48:12

would they not? I don't know.

48:14

But this is, so these wasp

48:16

spiders are a species of orb

48:18

weaver, weaver spiders, which you love

48:20

when they're across your doorway in

48:23

the morning when you go

48:25

out. to work. Orbweavers are

48:27

common all over the world.

48:29

So is this gonna necessarily,

48:31

is this just this wasp

48:33

spider? Or is it going to

48:35

be, are they gonna go look

48:37

at all sorts of orbies?

48:39

Because I love orb weavers.

48:42

They're wonderful. And if them,

48:44

why not others? Yeah, they're

48:46

great. If them, why not

48:49

others? Right. There's a big

48:51

question. Yeah. Yeah. So most

48:54

spiders have this. Most spiders

48:56

across spider species have this

48:58

thing, just not some of

49:01

those super, what they they

49:03

call basal species, the

49:05

kind of the ancestral

49:08

species. So either a bunch

49:10

of ancestral species all

49:12

lost it, or what

49:14

is more likely is that

49:17

it is a convergent

49:19

trait amongst spiders. That's pretty

49:21

much all of it. Still

49:23

lots of research to do,

49:26

figure out what the heck's going

49:28

on with females. Right. But it

49:30

is the closest they've gotten

49:33

to figuring out how spiders

49:35

smell. But it usually is the

49:37

males who go look for the

49:39

females, right? In most of the

49:41

species, the males are like, hey

49:43

lady, and then this gift. I

49:45

give you a gift or a

49:47

little. a little tiny yeah don't

49:50

eat me and then the female

49:52

goes I eat you I don't

49:54

eat you okay yeah and so yeah

49:56

now I want to know where

49:58

the sent the odor or the

50:00

females is coming from, do the

50:03

females only though the males are

50:05

coming because of like vibrations on

50:07

their web or like factors? Right,

50:09

that's a great question. They need

50:12

to smell. Well, I've seen a

50:14

lot of spider copulation videos. That's

50:16

a crazy. Listeners to the show

50:19

will attest. Anyway, there's a lot.

50:21

I feel like they tap on

50:23

them a lot. The males will

50:26

just show up and like poke

50:28

them. Like, hey, will you watch

50:30

me dance? No, but carefully, carefully

50:32

tapping. Hey, carefully, tapping. Hey, here's

50:35

this sperm packet I made that

50:37

is only nutritional and delicious and

50:39

doesn't actually have, it's not for

50:42

making babies. Here, here, while you're

50:44

doing that, would you like this

50:46

sperm packet that is for making

50:49

babies, please, please? Oh, you're going

50:51

to eat that too? Shucks. Just

50:53

don't eat me, please. Anyway, yeah.

50:56

So I don't know. Lots of

50:58

unanswered questions about the ladies. Apparently,

51:00

it's like human research, and they

51:02

only did the research on the

51:05

men. No, I'm kidding. They did

51:07

do the research on the females.

51:09

That's how they figured out this

51:12

experiment. And they checked for these

51:14

structures on the females, and they

51:16

did not have them. So. Which

51:19

is interesting. Yeah. But they now

51:21

need to look at a lot

51:23

more spiders and they need to

51:26

look at like a lot more

51:28

things, right? Yeah. Yeah. We need

51:30

to know more things everybody. Yeah.

51:32

So that is all I brought.

51:35

Yeah. So I wrote down zoo

51:37

secrets and blue sky. That's what

51:39

I wrote down so far. So

51:42

that's a great analog note taking

51:44

record Blair. I'm taking those all

51:46

day. Oh my gosh. So I

51:49

guess I'm I'm toast. But yeah,

51:51

I'm going to open it up

51:53

to the chat room. Hey everybody.

51:55

Is there anything you want us

51:58

to talk about next week? Is

52:00

there anything you want to talk

52:02

about now? Is there anything you

52:05

want us to like pull or

52:07

find or look into for next

52:09

week for the real episode 1000

52:12

since we have an extra week

52:14

now? We have one more week

52:16

for the real episode because it's

52:19

99, 99, no by 99, 99,

52:21

99, 99, 99, 99, I don't

52:23

know. Is there anything you want

52:25

me to ask Justin to do

52:28

and maybe he'll do? Oh,

52:31

I don't know anything

52:33

about that story, Fada.

52:36

You posted, because I

52:38

hadn't been able to

52:40

access discord until about

52:42

two hours ago. So

52:44

I haven't, but thank

52:47

you. Tools found used

52:49

by hominids like Lucy

52:51

from millions of years

52:53

ago. I haven't read

52:56

it, but I know

52:58

what Justin would say.

53:02

Honestly, that's one of the

53:04

big questions, right? Like, we

53:06

just need to find the

53:08

connections between the tools, the

53:10

individuals. We've been the same

53:12

kind of individuals for so

53:14

many hundreds, thousands, millions of

53:17

years. Oh, it's a YouTube

53:19

video, Fata. Do you have

53:21

the actual thing? Yes, that

53:23

CBS. We'll look into it.

53:25

I don't know that at

53:27

all. John Rantnaswami. This is

53:29

Larry. When I met Blair,

53:32

she got a call and

53:34

said she had to leave

53:36

for a quote unquote, penguin

53:38

emergency. I've always wondered about

53:40

that. Can you give me

53:42

more information? When was this?

53:44

Where were we? Because then

53:46

I could tell you if

53:49

it was real or not.

53:51

Because it could be, actually,

53:53

what would a penguin emergency

53:55

consist of? Like, I remember

53:57

those penguins. They were amazing.

53:59

Like at the zoo, yes, I

54:01

need more information. Interesting.

54:04

No, you were working at the zoo.

54:06

It was, you know what, that was

54:08

100% real. So one of the jobs,

54:11

so here's a zoo secret,

54:13

I don't know the exact

54:15

specifics of this particular penguin

54:18

emergency, but in the last

54:20

five or so years that

54:22

I was Batman involved, very good.

54:24

In the last five or so

54:27

years that I worked at the

54:29

zoo. I managed a teen

54:31

volunteer program called Talk on the

54:33

Wild Side and one of the

54:36

things that those volunteers did is

54:38

they sat with baby penguins

54:40

who were being socialized prior

54:43

to being released onto penguin

54:45

island when they're older. See

54:47

now we're getting into the

54:49

whole business because in the

54:51

wild baby penguins are born,

54:54

they hatch about 100-200-200-yards

54:57

yards from the ocean or where

54:59

the... the nesar, but in the zoo

55:01

it's a foot from the water.

55:03

And when baby penguins are hatched,

55:05

they're covered in down, they are

55:08

not hydrophobic yet. They shouldn't

55:10

go in the water. They can't

55:12

go in the water. So they

55:14

get pulled from penguin island, and

55:16

then they're socialized so that they

55:18

can take food from humans because

55:20

they also have to be hand

55:23

fed twice a day. So you

55:25

need to associate with them. Well,

55:27

when they're adults too, because they're

55:29

hand fed herring so that you

55:31

can count how many herring each

55:33

individual penguin gets, but also because

55:35

pills are put into the fish

55:37

to keep them healthy, like vitamins

55:39

and stuff like that, but also for

55:41

our older penguins, they would get like

55:44

medicine. So you have to be able to

55:46

hand feed these penguins, which means from a

55:48

very young age, they have to be

55:50

used to humans. They have to be,

55:52

you know, chill with taking food from

55:54

humans. So... My teen volunteers would

55:57

go take shifts sitting with

55:59

penguins. I do believe that

56:01

that was, I got a

56:03

call that I had to

56:05

go up way way way

56:08

way way way behind the

56:10

scenes to where these baby

56:12

penguins were to deal with

56:14

something with the team volunteers.

56:16

But you're right, it does

56:18

sound like something I could

56:20

also have done in case

56:23

you're a lunatic. But I

56:25

do think it was real.

56:27

It's fascinating. So, but

56:29

did you keep the baby penguins

56:31

with their parents and let the

56:34

parents feed them after you

56:36

took them from penguin island? Or

56:38

did you hand feed the babies

56:41

like all the way through? With

56:43

the parents until they're not eating

56:45

regurgitated food anymore, they get pulled

56:48

as soon as they're ready to

56:50

eat solids. So basically as

56:52

soon as they start making the

56:55

move to the water, that's like

56:57

the. that's the signal that they

56:59

are ready. It's like they're jumping

57:02

out of the tree. They're ready.

57:04

Exactly. Yes. And that's when

57:06

they'd say goodbye to their parents

57:09

anyway. They would still specialize because

57:11

like the penguins are pretty like

57:13

they're a social pod, but that's

57:16

why we always make sure that

57:18

they're in groups too. We don't

57:21

let any baby penguins go

57:23

up there alone. And if ever

57:25

there's a penguin that's sick that

57:27

has to go up to the

57:30

animal hospital and be separated from

57:32

the penguin colony. that you always

57:35

pull at least one more

57:37

penguin, at least, whether they're sick

57:39

or not, to make sure that

57:41

they have a buddy with them.

57:44

Yeah, so. Yeah, I just know

57:46

from hand-raising birds that it's quite

57:49

a thing. So, but I'm just

57:51

curious now, so the distance from

57:53

the parents to the water in

57:56

nature is far enough that they

57:58

lose their down in that time

58:01

and are... Not high and not

58:03

going to hold cold water against

58:05

their against their skin like

58:07

it's yeah, they're just they're just

58:10

not going to accidentally wattle out

58:12

into the water basically. Right. Yeah.

58:15

That's fascinating to me. Like that

58:17

just, that is important. Yeah. As,

58:19

as where breeding sites are

58:22

and how far they are from

58:24

the water as ice calves off

58:26

of glaciers and, you know, in

58:29

Antarctica and how, you know, these,

58:31

how the such. If the colonies

58:34

don't move. away from the water

58:36

and the adaptation of the

58:38

time it takes for like the

58:40

the fludging to happen is going

58:43

to interfere like that's another just

58:45

another piece of the puzzle. Blair

58:48

we need little sweaters that are

58:50

surf sweaters. Yes. Yeah well

58:52

that's the other problem is that

58:54

they might move inland but they're

58:57

going to lose the like... centuries-old

59:01

guano pile that they

59:03

use as their nests,

59:06

if they do that.

59:08

So why is that

59:11

bad? Because they have

59:13

nests like hollowed out

59:16

into the guano pile

59:18

and they're gonna have

59:21

to start from scratch.

59:23

It's a whole thing.

59:26

Okay. So it's kind

59:28

of like having, you

59:31

know, your cave system

59:34

or your, they've got

59:36

their spots. So many

59:39

things. I'm going to

59:41

start spraying perfume at

59:44

male spiders and see

59:46

what happens. Perfume. I

59:49

don't know. You just

59:51

kill them. I don't

59:54

know. You just kill

59:56

them. Argyop's or whatever

59:59

it's called. Argyop's, I

1:00:01

don't know. Let's see

1:00:04

if I should be,

1:00:06

if his friend should

1:00:09

feed crows. I mean,

1:00:12

generally, what have you

1:00:14

said Blair? Don't feed

1:00:17

the animals. Mm-hmm. As

1:00:19

a zoo person, forever,

1:00:22

that's what you've said.

1:00:24

Yeah, so generally speaking,

1:00:27

do not feed wild

1:00:29

animals. Crows are strange

1:00:32

is the weird one

1:00:34

because they generally know

1:00:37

specific humans and they're

1:00:39

very smart. So like

1:00:42

if you feed, if

1:00:45

you feed a raccoon,

1:00:47

they're going to start

1:00:50

going up to humans

1:00:52

everywhere to eat. And

1:00:55

that's dangerous. A

1:00:57

crow is less likely to do

1:00:59

that, but I would still say,

1:01:02

as a general rule of thumb,

1:01:04

you shouldn't be feeding wildlife. Because

1:01:06

also, like, what if you feed

1:01:09

him something that makes him sick?

1:01:11

That's not good. But if you

1:01:13

know what you're feeding, you're going

1:01:15

on a walk, you're randomly throwing

1:01:18

food on the ground of, you

1:01:20

know, feeding the crows. Whatever. It

1:01:22

could be interesting if you follow

1:01:25

the same walking path every day

1:01:27

at the same time. Those crows

1:01:29

will get to know you. And

1:01:32

so the crows will identify with

1:01:34

you. They have other sources of

1:01:36

food. They've got other stuff going

1:01:39

around. But they could begin to

1:01:41

identify with you, particularly because of

1:01:43

the intelligence of those animals. And

1:01:45

I don't think it's true that

1:01:48

they'll start swooping on other people

1:01:50

demanding food. Other birds might. But

1:01:52

I don't think that you as

1:01:55

an individual doing that is going

1:01:57

to lead to groups of groups.

1:01:59

Croves do mob, however. you know,

1:02:02

and that's, I've seen examples. During

1:02:04

the pandemic, there was

1:02:06

a person few blocks

1:02:08

from us who would

1:02:10

throw a bunch of

1:02:12

food out the window

1:02:14

of her second story

1:02:16

of her house. She had a

1:02:18

massive murder of crows at

1:02:21

her house every day at

1:02:23

the same time. Her roof was

1:02:25

white with... Yes. It's the social

1:02:27

dynamics are very interesting because if you

1:02:29

start with like little families that are

1:02:32

local during like the breeding, uh, fledging

1:02:34

season, then it's really cute and nice

1:02:36

and they feed their babies and their

1:02:38

babies might succeed and that's great. But

1:02:40

then they go off to the bigger

1:02:43

colony and everybody, but then those other

1:02:45

ones might bring other crows back to

1:02:47

you. So if you're doing it from

1:02:49

your house, you might end up attracting

1:02:51

a very, very large amount of

1:02:53

crows to your house. Yeah. Because

1:02:56

that information is sheer. I mean,

1:02:58

best practices just don't feed wildlife,

1:03:00

but yeah, if we want to

1:03:02

get real nitpicky about the

1:03:04

science of crows, they're special.

1:03:07

And I'm going to say

1:03:09

right now, especially with the

1:03:11

avian flu and other stuff

1:03:13

going on, I know that

1:03:15

there is the spread of

1:03:17

various diseases at bird backyard

1:03:19

bird feeders because people don't

1:03:21

clean the bird feeders correctly.

1:03:24

It's a pretty good

1:03:26

idea to really minimize

1:03:28

the dependence of those

1:03:30

animals on us, even

1:03:32

though we're here. I mean,

1:03:34

it feels great. More birds,

1:03:37

more cats, more coyotes, my

1:03:39

backyard is so exciting right

1:03:41

now. Oh my God. Well,

1:03:43

this person says they take

1:03:45

their dog on their walk,

1:03:47

too, which, you know. avian

1:03:49

flu. You don't want the avian flu to

1:03:52

jump to your dog. You can't. Or you

1:03:54

know, a cat you have at home, the

1:03:56

dog brings it in on their feet, you

1:03:58

know, so there's just. Yeah, there's lots

1:04:01

of reasons to not do

1:04:03

that right now, especially. But

1:04:05

yeah, they're probably not going

1:04:07

to start going up to

1:04:09

random humans, because they're crows

1:04:11

and they're extra smart. They're

1:04:13

extra special. Yeah. I love

1:04:16

crows. I like to cockaw

1:04:18

at them. And I don't

1:04:20

know if they go, oh,

1:04:22

you were so mispronouncing that.

1:04:24

Yeah, your accent is terrible.

1:04:26

It's terrible, lady. Whatever. So

1:04:30

I think it's time to

1:04:32

call it. We're going to

1:04:34

we're going to we're going

1:04:36

to we're going to head

1:04:38

out for the evening. It's

1:04:40

been wonderful spending time with

1:04:42

you all. I love the

1:04:44

coyotes. I really do. And

1:04:46

at this moment, I am

1:04:48

throwing a link into the

1:04:50

chats that will probably go

1:04:52

out if you would like

1:04:54

more this weekend science. As

1:04:56

John Ratniswami mentioned at the

1:04:58

end, episode 500. 10 years

1:05:00

ago, ish. And if you

1:05:02

want to watch, I think

1:05:04

it's like four hours long.

1:05:06

Yeah, I was just saying

1:05:08

good numbers so long. Hours,

1:05:10

51 minutes. Very long. If

1:05:12

you want to stay up

1:05:14

later, you don't have to

1:05:16

go enjoy our 500th episode.

1:05:18

We all got together in

1:05:20

my studio in my house

1:05:22

in San Francisco that year.

1:05:24

We had some champagne

1:05:27

and dressed up and

1:05:30

it was super fun.

1:05:32

Yeah, I had, I

1:05:35

had redder hair. What

1:05:37

Blair, I know, I

1:05:40

don't. Oh, I'm gonna

1:05:42

share screens. I can

1:05:45

show just a screen

1:05:47

grab of it. No,

1:05:50

I don't know if

1:05:53

I need that. I

1:05:55

need my window. Window,

1:05:58

please. There we go.

1:06:00

I was wearing my

1:06:03

mesh. Yeah. Oh my

1:06:05

God. I work. I

1:06:08

think I might still

1:06:11

have that dress. There

1:06:13

you go. Mm-hmm. Is

1:06:16

there any like whole

1:06:18

night of fun and

1:06:21

elp there, wait, what

1:06:23

was that? Did we

1:06:26

get up and show

1:06:28

off our dresses? Yes!

1:06:31

Okay, hold on. What

1:06:34

are we doing? I

1:06:36

don't know. That was

1:06:39

shouting Blair. That's right

1:06:41

Kevin Ritten. What is

1:06:44

this from? What's the

1:06:46

date on it? Oh

1:06:49

my gosh, it was

1:06:51

a January, January 2015.

1:06:54

Okay. I believe. Oh

1:06:57

yeah. There we go.

1:07:00

It was a little

1:07:03

time to dance. There

1:07:05

was some fun. I

1:07:07

was, yeah, I had

1:07:09

my 80s prom dress

1:07:11

on. It was great.

1:07:13

So that was the

1:07:15

end of the show,

1:07:17

I think, because we're

1:07:19

dancing with the outro.

1:07:21

And then we were

1:07:24

still there for three

1:07:26

more hours. There were

1:07:28

obviously no fun to

1:07:30

be had at all.

1:07:32

Oh my goodness, Jean

1:07:34

Ratnaswami, that is the

1:07:36

show where I accidentally

1:07:38

showed my business card

1:07:40

on screen. It was

1:07:42

very stupid. Different business

1:07:45

card now, so none

1:07:47

of that contact information

1:07:49

matters anymore. No. Although

1:07:51

I did get a

1:07:53

couple random texts from

1:07:55

people that was like

1:07:57

strange. Oh

1:08:00

my goodness, what are we doing? I

1:08:02

don't know. Oh yeah, what are you doing?

1:08:04

Oh! I think I tried to pretend

1:08:06

to death ray you or something

1:08:09

with my parabolic dish that I'd

1:08:11

been. Yes, I remember that we

1:08:14

used that I think didn't we

1:08:16

tried to? Yeah, to listen in

1:08:18

parabolic microphones, right, so I could

1:08:21

listen, I could be a spy

1:08:23

and listen in people's conversations. God,

1:08:25

how long was the outro. Good

1:08:28

lord, good lord. We played

1:08:30

the whole song then.

1:08:32

And then it goes,

1:08:34

it keeps going, it

1:08:37

keeps going, it keeps

1:08:39

going, it keeps going.

1:08:41

I see, okay, you're scrolling,

1:08:45

you're scrolling,

1:08:47

oh, we're reminiscing,

1:08:50

more scrolling. What's

1:08:52

this? What is what?

1:08:55

Pigging a jar, huh? Okay.

1:08:57

Oh, looking at a very

1:09:00

early choice. I don't know.

1:09:02

And we showed another

1:09:04

because we could screen.

1:09:07

Oh, my gosh. Awesome. A

1:09:09

screen share in a

1:09:11

screen share. How about

1:09:13

that? This is the

1:09:15

ultimate looping. Oh, how

1:09:18

about this? A computer

1:09:20

in a computer

1:09:22

in a computer in

1:09:25

a computer. I

1:09:27

hope to bring up

1:09:29

again next week. This

1:09:32

looks like how Tiktok

1:09:35

started. Did we start

1:09:37

it? Justin got up

1:09:40

so many times. Why

1:09:42

did he leave so

1:09:44

much? Because he's Justin.

1:09:46

He's got to go

1:09:49

do like fall asleep

1:09:51

again on. Like, do I just

1:09:53

make it? Did he change his shirt or something?

1:09:55

I don't know. Well, this is when we did

1:09:57

our photo shoot. Oh, right. We showed some picture.

1:09:59

Oh, he put on his twist

1:10:01

shirt. He changes shirt, I think. Oh,

1:10:04

yeah. Was this the day we did

1:10:06

the photos? It was the same

1:10:08

day, wasn't it? No, was it? No,

1:10:10

it might have been. I don't know.

1:10:12

I don't know anything. Before I

1:10:15

fixed my teeth. That's wild.

1:10:17

Okay. The magic eraser has

1:10:19

worked very well on my memory.

1:10:22

So everybody out there. If

1:10:24

you remember things, you got to

1:10:26

let us know before next week.

1:10:29

So, but at some point,

1:10:31

honestly, we need to

1:10:33

do an in-person thing.

1:10:35

Yes. We hope that we

1:10:38

can get hosts, audience,

1:10:40

and all in-person. It's going

1:10:42

to depend on, you know,

1:10:45

schedules when Justin can get

1:10:47

into the country. It is

1:10:49

the thing at this point

1:10:52

in time. Because otherwise I

1:10:54

could almost fly to you

1:10:56

same day. That's easy. It's

1:10:59

a 45 minute flight or

1:11:01

something. It'd be so simple. That

1:11:03

in itself is not the question.

1:11:06

It's if we want to get

1:11:08

all of us in the room

1:11:10

together and get other people.

1:11:13

Yeah. We need to work on.

1:11:15

Finding out when Justin will

1:11:17

be in the United States.

1:11:19

Because it's easier to have

1:11:21

one person come to the

1:11:23

U.S. than two people go

1:11:25

not to the U.S. out. Right. We'll

1:11:27

see how it works out. Yeah, I

1:11:29

mean, we could check out Denmark,

1:11:32

you suppose. I like Denmark.

1:11:34

It's like my people's and

1:11:36

I'm about to pick up a

1:11:38

cat. It looks like. Oh,

1:11:41

you might have. I have had them

1:11:43

for a while. Oh, that was

1:11:46

Ozzy. He was the evil cat.

1:11:48

I picked him up. He did.

1:11:50

He was the scary cat that

1:11:52

I had to, like, a cat

1:11:54

stare down aggression encounter with. Oh,

1:11:56

geez. Oh, here I go. I'm going

1:11:58

to pay him up. You're like,

1:12:00

I like you. I was

1:12:03

like, I have to dominate

1:12:05

this cat to like get

1:12:08

him to. Oh, he was

1:12:10

a good, he was nice.

1:12:13

He liked love. He just.

1:12:15

Oh my gosh. He had

1:12:17

trauma issues. Oh, I'm putting

1:12:20

it in Justin's face too.

1:12:22

He's like, I don't like

1:12:25

cat. What? I don't like

1:12:27

cats. Look at Justin's so

1:12:29

upset. I love you guys.

1:12:32

Oh man. Okay. Honestly. That

1:12:34

is so good. All right.

1:12:37

So we'll close this hole.

1:12:39

Yeah. There has scrolled through.

1:12:41

I scrubbed it. You scrubbed

1:12:44

through. If anyone wants to,

1:12:46

I put the link earlier

1:12:49

in our chat, if anybody

1:12:51

wants to go watch that

1:12:53

500th episode. Oh my gosh.

1:12:58

Hopefully, next week, we'll get

1:13:00

Justin back, and it will

1:13:02

be the 1,000th episode, Real,

1:13:04

that will be able to,

1:13:07

and prediction show, and all

1:13:09

that fun stuff. But thank

1:13:11

you so much for being

1:13:14

here and joining us for

1:13:16

this wandering conversation of science,

1:13:18

tech, curiosity, and hopefully positive

1:13:21

aspect of the future. I

1:13:23

hope you enjoyed the show.

1:13:26

Shoutouts to all of you who are

1:13:28

in the chat rooms. Thank you. Fauna,

1:13:30

thank you for your help with social

1:13:33

media and show notes. I know that

1:13:35

we did not do what you advertise

1:13:37

this week and I apologize. Hopefully, next

1:13:39

week it will be more accurate. I

1:13:42

like being accurate. Everyone. Arr and Lord

1:13:44

Gorde, others who help keep the chat

1:13:46

rooms, nice places to be. Thank you

1:13:49

for being there and helping to moderate

1:13:51

everything. Let's keep this a place where

1:13:53

discourse can continue to happen, where people

1:13:56

can ask questions and not always agree,

1:13:58

but not be jerked. At any of

1:14:00

our, thank you for recording the

1:14:03

show. And Rachel, thank you so much

1:14:05

for your editing of the show.

1:14:07

And I always, of course, must

1:14:09

thank our patron sponsors. Thank you

1:14:11

too. Dana Lewis, Eden Mundell,

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Clarence, John Clarence, John Clarence, John

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Clarence, John Clarence Lamb, Great Riley,

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1:15:00

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holder, Marjorie, Paul Disney, Patrick Peckhararo,

1:15:05

and Tony Steele. Thank you so much to

1:15:07

all of you for your support on Patreon.

1:15:09

And all of you who

1:15:11

are here for this 9999.99999999

1:15:14

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1:15:16

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1:15:31

wait, Blair, maybe you should read

1:15:33

this. I don't know. How's your...

1:15:35

Next week's... We will be back

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2000. We look forward

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to discussing science with

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1:16:40

and if you've learned

1:16:42

anything from today's show, remember.

1:16:45

I hope it's all in

1:16:47

your head. This week science

1:16:50

is coming your way. This

1:16:52

week in science it's the

1:16:54

end of the world. So

1:16:57

I'm setting up shop, got

1:16:59

my banner unfurl. It says

1:17:02

the scientist is in, I'm

1:17:04

gonna sell my advice. Show

1:17:06

them how to stop the

1:17:09

robots with a simple device.

1:17:11

A reversible warming with a

1:17:14

wave of my hand. And

1:17:16

a little cost you is

1:17:18

a couple of grand. So

1:17:20

everybody listen to what I

1:17:22

say. I use the scientific

1:17:24

method for all that it's

1:17:26

worth, and I'll broadcast my

1:17:28

opinion all over the earth.

1:17:30

Because it's this week in

1:17:32

science. This week in science.

1:17:34

This week in science. This

1:17:36

week in science. This week

1:17:38

in science. This week in

1:17:40

science. This week in science.

1:17:42

This week in science. science.

1:17:49

This week in science. This

1:17:51

week in...