0:00

up on This Week in Space, we've got

0:02

a possible detection of life on an alien

0:04

planet 120 light -years away. There was an explosion

0:06

at a Northrop Grumman rocket test flight, and

0:08

we're talking about the Space Force! With

0:10

Chief Master Sargeant, John Bentavaneu is going

0:13

to tell us what that military branch really

0:15

does. Tune in. Podcasts

0:19

you love. From people you

0:21

trust. This

0:23

is truth. This

0:26

is this week in

0:28

space episode number 157

0:30

recorded on April 18th

0:33

2025 Space Force Hello and

0:35

welcome to another episode of this

0:37

week in space the wait for

0:39

it Space Force Edition No,

0:45

no. All right. All right.

0:47

I'm Rod Pyle, the long -suffering -in

0:49

-chief at Astro Magazine, and I'm

0:51

joined by that desktop space

0:53

warrior himself, Tark Malik, editor -in -chief

0:55

at space .com. Ahoy, ahoy. And

0:58

lone combatant. How are you,

1:00

sir? I'm doing well, Rod. Happy

1:02

Easter preview, Easter episode.

1:04

Yeah. How are you? Easter,

1:07

we'll call it. Yeah. In a few

1:09

minutes we'll be joined by Chief Master Sergeant

1:11

John Bendevena of the US Space Force,

1:13

which is going to be fun. He's

1:15

a really interesting guy, great to chat

1:17

with. And he's going to

1:19

educate us all about Space Force because

1:21

I, for one, didn't know nearly

1:23

as much about it as I should.

1:25

But before we do that, Please,

1:28

you know what's coming. Don't forget to

1:30

do us a solid make sure to

1:32

like subscribe and other things on our

1:34

various podcast venues because We're counting on

1:36

you so we can keep

1:39

doing this fantastic show

1:41

Okay Now a

1:43

space joke from our good

1:45

friend of the show listener

1:48

Ken Kramer. Hey, I just

1:50

saw Ken. Okay. Yes. Yeah,

1:52

I can yes. Yeah, I Saw

1:54

him at the conference. I was at it neif Different

1:56

Ken Kramer. Oh a different Ken. Yeah,

1:59

sorry. No, maybe I'll say

2:01

you too soon Ken Okay, why

2:04

did the Space Force Guardian get in trouble

2:06

for bringing a pet to the space station? I

2:09

don't know why because he let

2:11

his dog tag along for

2:13

the launch It's

2:21

good. Now, I've heard that some people

2:24

want to make us into dog tags when

2:26

it's joke time in the show, but

2:28

you can help by sending us your best

2:30

worst in that case, or it's a

2:32

different space joke, at twist .tv.

2:34

And I have to tell you,

2:36

Tarte, our listeners...

2:39

I maybe they're upset with us

2:41

because we haven't heard much in terms

2:43

of space jokes. There's a few

2:45

that are pretty consistent. And by

2:47

the way, if you're looking in

2:49

Bennett surfs 101 best space jokes, which

2:51

I don't think exists, or on

2:53

AI, we've seen those.

2:55

So we're kind of looking for original

2:57

stuff. Maybe you heard your dad

2:59

years ago, or maybe you You've

3:02

made it up yourself. Those are the best ones. So,

3:04

So. Yeah,

3:07

let's step it up guys.

3:09

He says we're depending on you.

3:12

That's what I meant to say. We love you.

3:14

We're depending on you. Get into program. That's in

3:16

order. All right. Headlines. Yes.

3:20

It's alive. Headline

3:23

please. Oh, I missed it again. All

3:27

right, Miss Australia 1959

3:29

It's alive. So we

3:31

have stories rippling through

3:34

the press of possible

3:36

life signatures found at

3:38

the Sun so conquest

3:40

of space exoplanet k2 -18b

3:42

Which is a suspected

3:44

ocean or high sea in as they call

3:46

them world in a habitable zone about a

3:48

hundred and A little over a hundred

3:50

light years away. 120. That's

3:53

fairly over a hundred, isn't it?

3:55

Thought to be about two and a

3:57

half times the size of Earth. Notably,

4:00

although this story got a

4:03

lot of pushback from certain

4:05

outlets, mostly other science folks.

4:08

Notably, this was the

4:10

second indication in a couple

4:12

of years of the same

4:14

signature. So just indulge me for a

4:16

moment. These are possible

4:18

signs of life and emphasis on

4:21

possible found in the spectra of

4:23

this exoplanet as it transited its

4:25

host star. And

4:27

these are spectrographic signatures

4:30

of dimethyl sulfide, DMS, and

4:33

dimethyl disulfide, which

4:35

on earth are produced by algae

4:37

and other microbes. Now, it's thought

4:39

that this can also be abiotically

4:41

produced, i .e. without life, but

4:44

Due to the amount of what they

4:46

found, they think they found of the atmosphere,

4:48

which is a few million, I think

4:50

a few million times what's found on earth.

4:52

Let's see. On earth,

4:55

we got a lot of plankton and algae

4:57

on earth. It's below one part per billion. And

5:00

on this planet, they

5:02

think it's 10

5:04

parts per million, which is

5:06

a huge differential. So,

5:10

you know, hope springs eternal that we may have found

5:12

life elsewhere, but They

5:14

the the science team themselves who

5:16

I'm hoping will get on the

5:18

show said they need a few

5:20

more hours of observing time on

5:22

the Web space telescope to confirm and

5:24

I imagine that's pretty hard to get

5:27

Yeah, yeah, what a day to take

5:29

the day off and take your daughter

5:31

to the Smithsonian Museum That's where I

5:33

was yesterday when this was all happening

5:35

and people were calling me won't hey

5:37

Hey, where's this story? Here's the story

5:40

on space .com. Yeah, that's right. I was

5:42

I was just getting up from my

5:44

lunch at Shake Shack at the museum

5:46

when Rod is like, hey, what's going

5:48

on with the story? So there is

5:50

no rest for the weary space. All

5:52

right. I did

5:54

see discovery for the first time, though,

5:56

at the at the Udvar 80 Center.

5:59

uh that was the first one I saw

6:01

discovery since it flew last it was really

6:03

nice to see because it's been 14

6:05

years but anyway um this is exciting but

6:07

like you just said like we have

6:09

to be really skeptical because this was the

6:11

James Webb Space Telescope you know is

6:13

what they used to look at it you

6:15

would expect that if anything

6:17

that is used or launched

6:19

by NASA or its partners

6:21

finds actual evidence of life

6:23

that NASA themselves would help

6:25

announce it. Well, and

6:27

talk about a way of restoring

6:29

your science budget if it gets

6:31

cut. mean, really. Yeah, yeah. But

6:33

it is, I

6:36

guess I would say hopeful. Because as

6:38

you mentioned, this isn't a new planet

6:41

Kepler K2 -18b has been in the

6:43

talks for the last few years about

6:45

its potential to be a habitable

6:47

planet. I think you and I have

6:50

different size estimates for it. I

6:52

have it pegged at nearly nine times

6:54

more massive than Earth, but more

6:56

mass. I said size. Oh, size. Okay.

6:58

There you go. Yeah. And

7:00

so, so, you know, it is

7:02

I think a bit encouraging that this

7:04

relatively new instrument that we've been

7:07

less than four years old with the

7:09

James Webb Space Telescope has looked

7:11

at it in a different way to

7:13

find what is a bit more

7:15

promising presence of this DMS chemical itself.

7:17

Now we've actually had a few

7:20

stories on this since 2023. In fact,

7:22

we had one earlier this year

7:24

in March about how tantalizingly attractive this

7:26

planet is to host life, but

7:28

how we just still can't say conclusively

7:30

one way or another. My only

7:32

concern is that this ends up like

7:35

the methane on Mars, which there's

7:37

like a camp that says it has

7:39

to be made by a biological

7:41

substance. And then another camp

7:43

that says no, like you

7:45

just said earlier, there are

7:47

non -biological processes to make this

7:49

chemical signature. And we won't really

7:51

know about Mars until we actually go there. Going

7:54

to K2 -18B, a lot harder,

7:57

a lot harder than going to

7:59

Mars to confirm. what it's going

8:01

to be. So my hope is

8:03

that we'll be able to get

8:05

some more conclusive evidence to say

8:07

one way or another what it

8:09

is that will be undeniable in

8:11

the signal from either James Webb

8:13

or another equivalent that can help

8:15

put it to bed a lot

8:17

more simply. So it's not like

8:19

this, you know, won't

8:21

they type of situation

8:23

on an alien planet for

8:26

years to come. Well,

8:28

and just a life on Viking

8:31

situation, you know, well, I

8:33

was going to say, yeah, another similar

8:35

story was when the Viking landers

8:37

went down 1976 within short order. They

8:39

had they had their

8:41

manipulator arms, which were very interesting

8:43

design, but I won't go into

8:45

it. Go out, take soil samples,

8:47

dump them into a trio of

8:49

life science experiments. And one of

8:51

them showed positive spike and the

8:53

others didn't. And after a lot

8:55

of battle between the head of

8:57

the of the life science project

8:59

on that mission and one of

9:01

the PIs on a particular experiment. There's

9:05

a lot of acrimony between those two. In

9:07

fact, they almost went to blows at one

9:10

point, had to be pulled back by others. The

9:13

guy who ran it was

9:15

a pretty starch collar kind

9:17

of scientist, but you guard

9:19

your special interests. Is that

9:21

good or bad to have a starch collar? In

9:24

his case, he was just really

9:26

tightly wound and saw things his

9:28

way. And this

9:30

is 1976, so people

9:32

are looking at all

9:34

this exobiological life science through the lens of

9:36

what we knew in 1976, which is very different

9:38

than now. But my

9:40

point here being, the results

9:43

of that experiment are still

9:45

being debated. We think it

9:47

was perchlorates. in the soil

9:49

reacting in a non -biological way, but nobody

9:51

really knows. And more

9:53

recent tests of that experiment

9:56

on Earth in places like

9:58

the Atacama and with artificially prepared

10:00

simulant seem to

10:02

indicate that it might have actually found something, but we

10:04

won't know for a long time. But

10:06

let's move on. Glam is

10:08

getting slammed for the flight

10:11

of Blue Origin NS -31. the

10:13

oft referred to

10:15

glam flight the first

10:17

build widely as the first all

10:19

-female mission since Valentina Tereshkova in

10:21

1963 which was a little bit

10:23

of a headline stretch for me

10:25

because when you say all -female for

10:27

Valentina Tereshkova it's easy to be

10:29

all -female when you're the only

10:32

person only person on the capsule

10:34

yeah but you know it's a

10:36

relevant point so a crew of

10:38

very high -profile media

10:40

figures went up and came back

10:42

and had their 11 minutes

10:44

of flight and, you know, four

10:46

to six minutes of weightlessness

10:48

in the parabola suborbital. I

10:52

like how you danced around the fact that

10:54

they launched Katy Perry to space, you

10:56

know. Well, God knows you've addressed it enough,

10:58

but here's the problem, you know, it's,

11:01

it is, if you're just

11:03

talking about bare facts with no

11:05

embellishment or set dressing, This

11:08

was a tourist flight. Now. Yes.

11:10

Sometimes science is performed on these

11:12

suborbital hops. Sometimes some

11:14

important stuff comes out

11:16

of it. This was, I

11:18

think, by design primarily

11:21

done for public relations, for

11:23

advancing the cause of women and STEM, for

11:25

a number of things which matter. But

11:28

here's where the controversy got stood

11:30

up because people were just going

11:33

nuts on social media. They

11:35

still are. On the one side

11:37

we've got people saying these people aren't

11:39

astronauts and that's an old conversation

11:41

and this is just a stunt blah

11:43

blah blah blah and then we've

11:45

got on the other side people including

11:47

a lot of very well -intentioned intelligent

11:49

women saying look this is a

11:51

big step forward for STEM and so

11:53

forth so you know there's a certain

11:55

validity to points of the arguments on

11:57

both sides but it really got very

11:59

heated up and kind of nasty

12:02

very quickly which I expected

12:04

some of that, but not to that degree.

12:06

What did you think? You've

12:08

heard me talk about this for

12:10

the last few episodes about how surprised

12:13

I was at the severe backlash

12:15

because it is very unique to this

12:17

flight in terms of both its

12:19

veracity, its amplification,

12:22

as well as opposed to the other

12:24

10. crewed flights. I think this

12:26

was the 11th crewed flight, right, for

12:28

Blue Origin that they did, including the

12:30

one that Jeff Bezos

12:32

launched on. But,

12:34

you know, as you said, I

12:36

mean, the fact that this was

12:38

largely a promotional flight in Blue

12:40

Origins. aspect really was crystallized

12:42

in the post -flight interviews in which

12:45

I believe that Katy Perry was asked

12:47

if she recommended it and of course

12:49

she did. She recommended it, gave it

12:51

a 10 out of 10, and felt

12:53

that everyone should do it. And that's

12:55

Blue Origin's ad right there. Katy Perry

12:57

says you should go to space. But

13:00

most of us can't afford it. You have

13:02

to put $150 ,000 down. just to

13:04

ask how much it cost to do a ticket.

13:06

And Blue Origin will not tell you what the ticket prices

13:08

are. But that's

13:11

a whole industry look

13:13

at it. This was essentially a

13:15

tourist flight. I believe Amanda,

13:17

when the bio -astronauts engineer and

13:19

activist on the flight, I think

13:21

that she did do two

13:24

experiments, she said, while she was

13:26

on the flight, either that

13:28

she took with her or whatnot

13:30

in the interview. But

13:33

the blowback has been very, very

13:36

audible. In fact, I was just

13:38

reading another story I believe in

13:40

the Times today in their culture

13:42

section about kind of what a

13:44

waste a time it was and,

13:46

you know, everyone fawning over

13:48

11 minutes of space travel and whatnot.

13:50

It's still very surprising to me.

13:53

In fact, some of the the

13:55

YouTubers I follow who only cover movies

13:57

were covering this flight about how much

13:59

they hated it, which was really surprising

14:01

to me. So, know, I get

14:03

the criticism that this was a tourist flight

14:05

and it was baited out to be more than

14:07

it was. Katy Perry and

14:09

Gale King kissing the ground, you

14:12

know, thankful to be back on earth after

14:14

11 minutes, could be a little bit much,

14:16

right? Considering that, what? the

14:19

astronauts, the Starliner astronauts were up

14:22

there for eight months, you

14:24

know, over over over eight months

14:26

planned. So, you know,

14:28

and they were criticized for having their designer

14:30

spacesuits to or flight suits, the months

14:32

flight suits. Can I make a comment on

14:34

that? You know, yeah, they didn't do

14:36

themselves any favors with some of the

14:38

PR. Yeah, with the L. You mean the

14:41

L cover? For glam and

14:43

space. Yeah, I mean well and and

14:45

the poses after before and after

14:47

you know those suits were I

14:50

mean, they were I think standard blue origin

14:52

suits, but no, no, they're not that

14:54

blue origin ones are made out of polyester

14:56

Yeah, and they and they and they're

14:58

they're they're made out of you know They're

15:00

they're made out of kind of jumped

15:02

a polyester jumpsuit. Yeah material. These are made

15:05

out of a stretch flame resistant neoprene

15:07

That are that are that are tailored specifically.

15:09

Okay. I thought they

15:11

looked a little better than before. Yeah,

15:14

got flared they got flared flared

15:16

pant legs They've they're they're designed to

15:18

be a much more comfortable and whatnot.

15:20

Well, and as a fashion statement, exactly,

15:22

I would say, which may not have been,

15:24

I mean, you just have to know

15:26

when you're going into these things, why they

15:28

didn't ask you and I, I just

15:30

am not sure. Right. You have to know

15:32

going into these things. I'm a wonderful

15:34

personality. I don't know about you. Never

15:37

done. That you're, you

15:39

know, you're painting a target on your

15:41

back and it's just tough. So, you

15:43

know, I hope this simmers down. and

15:45

that the maximum benefit can be

15:48

extracted from it, but probably no time

15:50

soon. All right. And

15:52

we have some, I guess, relatively

15:54

breaking news about the explosion with

15:56

Northrop Grumman. That's awful. Exactly.

15:59

Yeah. Yeah. Yesterday

16:01

or actually Wednesday, there was an

16:03

explosion at Northrop Grumman's test

16:05

site out in Promontory, Utah, which

16:07

we just got some photos

16:09

from the sheriff's department out there

16:11

and it fully destroyed. one

16:13

of their buildings out there. And

16:16

of course, this is where

16:18

Northrop Grumman tests their solid rocket

16:20

motors, the ones that they

16:22

built for the space shuttle, the big ones

16:24

that they're building for SLS. But

16:26

there isn't any word about what was going on at

16:28

the building there, but we do know there were no

16:30

injuries, no fatalities. So at

16:32

least there's that to be thankful

16:34

for. But it is curious

16:36

to kind of find out what was going

16:38

on there. Seem

16:41

like any Artemis hardware for at

16:43

least the next two flights

16:45

we were affected because Artemis 2

16:47

they've stacked it already And

16:49

which launches next year in 2026

16:51

as we're recording this and

16:53

I believe they've already completed or

16:55

shipped the segments for For

16:57

Artemis 3 as well. So So,

17:00

you know, it is just

17:02

kind of something that we know

17:04

happened They're gonna look into it They've lost

17:06

an entire building, what building that was, we

17:08

don't know, and what the,

17:10

you know, the extent of... the blowback

17:12

or the setbacks that it might

17:14

create for their solid rocket motor industry,

17:17

you know, we're not sure. They

17:19

make more than the SRBs, you know,

17:21

they make motors for missiles and

17:23

all of that type of thing as

17:25

well. So, you know, it's unclear,

17:27

but clearly something went very, very wrong.

17:30

And I think it's just good

17:32

to know that no one was at

17:34

least injured in it. And then hopefully they'll get

17:36

to the bottom of what happened and avoid that from happening

17:38

again. Yeah, that

17:40

would be good. All right. Well, we are

17:42

going to go to a quick break

17:44

and We are going to be back

17:46

in just a moment with Chief

17:48

Master Sergeant John Benevena of the

17:51

US Space Force stay with us

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wanted to say that, Chief Master

20:33

Sergeant of the US Space Force. John,

20:36

thank you for joining us today. Hello. Thanks

20:38

for having me. I appreciate it. I'm excited. So

20:41

just for me, because I'm a

20:43

total moron when it comes to military, you can

20:45

tell I never served. What does

20:47

a Chief Master Sergeant do? What

20:49

is that role? So my

20:51

official title is Chief Master

20:53

Sergeant of the Space Force. So

20:55

I am the most senior

20:58

enlisted member of the service. And I have

21:00

counterparts like the Sergeant Major of the Army, the

21:02

Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy. So

21:05

all of the services have a senior

21:07

enlisted that work directly for the service

21:09

chief, or in my particular case, I work

21:11

for the Chief of Space Operations directly, General

21:14

Salsman. So in my role,

21:16

you know, I've been doing this for almost

21:18

31 years. You know, I

21:20

take my kind of military

21:22

experience, my space operations experience, and

21:24

I advise General Salsman on

21:26

the development, the employment. and

21:29

the strategy to make sure that guardians,

21:31

I call it the guardian experience, that

21:33

guardians in the United States Space Force

21:36

have an experience that they feel valued,

21:38

that they're challenged, they're developed, and

21:40

really to kind of get after the needs of

21:42

the nation. So I provide them primarily on a

21:44

lot of enlisted stuff, but I like

21:46

to say that my responsibility doesn't stop at

21:48

stripes, whether you're wearing stars, whether you're

21:50

wearing stripes, or whether you're wearing a suit

21:52

as a civilian, I'm concerned about

21:54

your experience as a guardian. So those are some

21:57

the things I advise them on. Okay.

22:01

And Chief, I mean, I'm just

22:03

curious about you yourself as like a

22:05

person because, you know, I was

22:07

reading your bio. I know that you,

22:09

I guess you joined the Air

22:11

Force in 94 or at least entered

22:13

the Academy in 94, but the

22:15

Space Force is much younger than

22:17

that. I think you shifted over in

22:20

2020. So I'm curious what that

22:22

path was like. for you as a

22:24

member of the service. I

22:27

mean, was that always an

22:29

ambition as a youth to

22:31

enter service or the Air

22:33

Force was attractive? And then, of course, space was started.

22:35

What was that path like for you? Yeah,

22:37

so I tell the story that, you

22:39

know, Kuanas, it was early 90s when

22:42

I enlisted into the United States Air

22:44

Force. There was the

22:46

patriotism that was involved in that,

22:48

but also I was trying to

22:50

make something of myself. You

22:52

know, my kind of personal story, I got married in

22:55

the month of May and went to boot camp in

22:57

August, so only a couple of months later. So

22:59

I tell General Salsman, who's a

23:01

phenomenal, phenomenal teammate, that though he may

23:03

be a four -star general, my wife,

23:05

Kathy, outranks him just by time

23:08

and grade. But

23:10

I enlisted and I did it for four

23:12

years because I wanted to try and make something

23:14

myself. But, you know,

23:16

I tell the story that that initial four

23:18

-year contract, if you will, as an enlisted

23:20

member, wound up turning into

23:23

a lifetime commitment. I just really enjoyed

23:25

serving. I enjoyed the challenges that service

23:27

provided me, allowed me to do things

23:29

I never had a chance to. I

23:31

thought I would do. And

23:33

so I stayed in. And when I first came

23:35

in, I was a maintainer, actually. You know,

23:37

I worked on test equipment for the United States

23:39

Air Force and did that for a

23:41

couple of years. but then transitioned into

23:43

being an enlisted space operator. And

23:46

in 98, I went to tech school

23:48

out in Vandenberg at the time Air

23:50

Force Base and learned how to do

23:52

space operations and got into the space

23:55

business. And my first job was watching

23:57

dots for the DSP, the Defense

23:59

Support Program, out at

24:01

Buckley Air National Guard Base at the

24:03

time, back in the late 90s. And

24:05

that started my space career. And I

24:08

love having a chance to do that

24:10

for many, many years. So

24:12

when the Space Force was established, Since

24:15

I've been doing space operations in

24:17

the United States Air Force, the transition

24:19

opportunity to continue that work that

24:21

I believed in, but also

24:23

the challenge and opportunity to stand up

24:25

a new service and help build a

24:27

foundation for generations of guardians to

24:29

come. I jumped at the chance

24:31

and to your point, it was 1 September

24:33

of 2020 that I transitioned over and

24:35

that was the first day that we

24:38

were authorized to do the transition. So

24:40

myself and several hundred of my closest

24:42

friends who are all doing space operations

24:44

all transitioned on 1 September 2020. Well,

24:46

that's awesome. And when you were choosing

24:48

to enlist, I mean... pick the

24:50

Air Force? I guess at that at that beginning

24:52

I mean if there were other services was there

24:54

like a family tradition or was it like

24:56

the one branch that really grabbed you? Which

24:59

is something you were always interested in since

25:01

you were a kid. Yeah, so

25:03

actually it was a little bit of

25:05

what opportunities Kind of we're out

25:07

there. I my father was

25:09

a Marine in World War two You know,

25:11

I have other family members that served in

25:13

the army and other branches But for me

25:15

personally what I was looking to I was

25:18

looking at for kind of

25:20

a skill and something interested me and all

25:22

the services have their unique culture and

25:24

really write ethos that they build and it

25:26

was what the Air Force, I

25:28

was a precision measurement equipment laboratory technician, PMAL,

25:30

that's what they call it. And when I

25:32

talked to the Air Force recruiter and he

25:34

gave me this name and kind of taught

25:37

that what I would do and I called

25:39

my father at the time and I said,

25:41

hey dad, I talked to the Air Force

25:43

recruiter today and this is a job that

25:45

he said that I could do and go to school for and he

25:47

goes, take it. That's a great job. You

25:49

know, you learn a skill. You're really going

25:51

to enjoy working in the laboratory, uh, calibrating

25:53

test equipment. And, and that's kind of, that's

25:55

kind of what got me into the Air Force

25:57

originally. That's awesome. So

26:00

I have first a selfish personal question and

26:02

then I'll get to this back to the

26:04

show. Uh, where, uh, first of all, you

26:06

don't look nearly old enough to have a

26:08

father who was in World War II. I

26:10

mean, my father was World War II era.

26:12

So kudos to your good genes. Uh,

26:14

where was he deployed in the, uh, Yeah,

26:19

so my father when he served it

26:21

was later later in the war

26:23

so he was part of the you

26:25

know quote -unquote occupation force that was

26:27

in Japan so a lot of

26:29

the photographs that I have you know

26:31

my father passed you know years

26:33

ago but you know most of the

26:35

photographs are him you know working

26:37

in kind of the police occupation occupation

26:40

force around Japan and Tokyo when

26:42

he served later on in the war

26:44

and then came back but I

26:46

mean, about a time he got in, you

26:48

know, most of the combat in the

26:50

Pacific was already over. That

26:53

was probably a good thing. So

26:55

what was your first reaction when you heard

26:57

the announcement about the Space Force being

27:00

stood up? Because it was kind of a,

27:02

you know, we had heard some inklings of it,

27:04

but it's like, what is this? And, you

27:06

know, gee, the way the way it was described

27:08

in some circles was we're going to have Yeah,

27:11

guardians and tie fighters slugging it out

27:13

with the bad guys in space and in

27:15

other circles was a little more temperate

27:18

of, you know, we're basically going to be

27:20

observing satellites and protecting our interests and

27:22

orbit and so forth. Yeah,

27:24

it was exciting because as you

27:26

know, right, there was, you know, Washington

27:30

was a little undecided on where we

27:32

were to go, whether or not we could

27:34

afford it and whether or not there

27:36

was momentum and understanding, if you will, whether

27:39

not we needed a separate service. So when we

27:41

finally got the word and that it was going

27:43

to happen, I was pretty excited

27:45

because I said, I've been doing this

27:47

work for a while and I was fortunate

27:49

enough to kind of see the

27:51

evolution of where we were going

27:53

in the domain and that from

27:55

a military perspective, that

27:57

there were some concerning activities

27:59

that were happening, specifically for

28:02

some of our competitors, that

28:04

were making it, you know, a war -fighting domain.

28:06

And I can say that freely now, you

28:08

know, the space is war -fighting domain

28:11

as an independent service, but... spent many

28:13

years doing space operations and seeing what

28:15

was happening. I

28:17

think it was back

28:19

in 2007, maybe, when China

28:21

first did that ASAP

28:23

when they blew up the

28:26

funk weather satellite. And

28:28

some other activities, whether it

28:30

be ground -based lasers, jammers, experiencing

28:32

that and seeing it for so

28:34

many years, but being able

28:36

to talk about it in the open, but

28:39

also educating the public and our elected

28:41

officials that hey like there's some concerning

28:43

things happening there and it was kind

28:45

of an acknowledgement when the service was

28:47

stood up and which really allowed us

28:49

to kind of have this discussion and

28:51

allow us to as a as a

28:53

separate service now to really focus on

28:55

that because I believe in it you

28:57

know when I when I talk about you

28:59

know our mission statement right secure our nation's

29:01

interests in from our two space. I

29:04

think that's really important. And I get

29:06

the opportunity to engage and talk to

29:08

youth. I try to go to schools

29:10

when I can and talk to whoever

29:12

will give me an opportunity to talk

29:14

about what we need to do. And

29:17

I do that not because I'm trying

29:19

to recruit people into uniform, but

29:21

I do it because I

29:24

say that the domain, our

29:26

opportunities, the potential that space

29:28

provides is unlimited and that

29:30

as a service, right? Freedom of

29:32

maneuver and access to space. So

29:34

I say this so that explorers

29:36

can explore, dreamers can dream,

29:38

innovators can innovate. I just want

29:41

to play my role as a guardian, because I

29:43

know that it's a contested domain. But I want

29:45

to make sure that we have the ability to

29:47

take advantage of it. I mean, it's just kind

29:49

of amazing when you think about where we are.

29:51

You know, I use the analogy. My

29:54

wife and I went on a cruise out

29:56

of Miami last year, went out into

29:58

Caribbean into international waters. And I say, I

30:00

was not standing on the side of the

30:02

boat with binoculars, right, fearful of pirates

30:05

coming on the boat. Because I knew

30:07

that the Navy of the world led by

30:09

the US Navy were protecting and you

30:11

know, sea lanes of transit and

30:13

commerce. That allowed me to take

30:15

a vacation. It allowed the company to invest

30:17

and build the boat. It allowed individuals

30:19

who are making a career to work

30:21

on the boat. And for that

30:23

whole economic right and way of life

30:25

to exist. I want individuals when

30:28

they think about the space force and our

30:30

ability to travel, take advantage of whether

30:32

be tourism, space cargo, travel

30:34

out beyond the moon to Mars,

30:37

and say that we're able to do

30:39

that because the guardians of the

30:41

space force secure the nation's interests

30:43

from into space. So

30:45

all that wrapped up when the service stood

30:47

up, that's what I'm thinking about. I'm excited

30:49

to be part of it. Very

30:51

well put, sir. We will be right back

30:53

after the short break with Tarik's next

30:56

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world. Well

32:01

Chief, you know, I think you actually got

32:04

my question coming up ahead of time

32:06

because as we're speaking, no, it's quite

32:08

all right. As we're speaking,

32:10

the Space Force just celebrated its fifth

32:12

anniversary, fifth birthday, if you will. And

32:15

I guess you're coming up on

32:18

your five -year anniversary later this

32:20

year. Then congratulations ahead for that. And

32:23

there might be some folks who

32:25

don't really understand what it is.

32:28

that the space force as a branch

32:30

does and you touched on a

32:32

bit of them but you know what

32:34

I guess just for the folks

32:36

that maybe aren't as either as versed

32:38

or as you know they just

32:40

not as attentive in just how the

32:42

military works what is it that

32:44

the the the space force itself it

32:47

really you know, aims at either

32:49

safeguarding in terms of assets for civilian

32:51

use, military use, and,

32:53

you know, I guess what gets

32:55

you going to work every morning

32:57

to oversee all of your responsibilities there? Yeah,

33:00

absolutely. So

33:02

what gets me up every day are the

33:04

guardians and their families. Like, you know, these

33:06

men and women who are doing the things

33:08

that they do, serving, wearing

33:10

a cloth of our nation and

33:12

making the sacrifices. and accepting

33:14

the challenges that, you know, what service means,

33:16

so it's the men and women that get

33:18

me up every day. But

33:21

from the service perspective, you know, the things that

33:23

I believe in that they're doing, right, I'm sitting

33:25

in an office and I'm having a chance to

33:27

hang out with you guys, right, in an afternoon.

33:29

They're out working in windowless rooms, taking care of

33:31

the nation's business. But what is that, to

33:34

your point, right, from the space force perspective? So

33:36

we kind of bucket this three core

33:38

functions, if you will, within the space

33:40

force. The one is

33:43

assured space access. You know,

33:45

that's, you know, us, our ability to be

33:47

able to have national security launches, you know,

33:49

at Cape Canaveral slash Patrick last year, I

33:51

think we had 93 launches where we're to

33:53

break 100 this year. I know it, you

33:55

know, we have the, you know, on the

33:57

West Coast, we have Vanderbilt Space Force Base, you

34:00

know, we have tracking stations that

34:02

enable and help right launch, right? So

34:04

assured space access, you know, not

34:06

only is it vital from a national

34:08

security perspective, but from a financial

34:11

perspective, we want to have a robust space

34:13

industry within the United States. And

34:16

the ranges and our ability to provide that

34:18

infrastructure, you know, range of the future going out,

34:20

you know, you know, the direction that we're

34:22

going. So that's one of the

34:24

core functions that we do, assured space access.

34:27

One the other things we do is global

34:30

space operations. So, and that's something that

34:32

a lot of it I did as well

34:34

as an airman for many years, and that's your

34:36

make sure that GPS, right,

34:38

position navigation and timing, that entire

34:40

constellation, right, that entire ecosystem. is

34:42

owned and executed by the Space

34:44

Force, Guardians of Space Force. Right

34:46

now, there were young guardians

34:48

sitting in the windows room at

34:50

Shriver Space Force Base that are

34:52

monitoring that constellation, making sure that

34:55

The P &T that not only are

34:57

war fighters and coalition partners rely

34:59

on, but the agricultural

35:01

sector, the financial sector, the

35:03

transportation sector, that entire

35:05

ecosystem is built on the

35:07

sustainability and accuracy of

35:09

P &T and the GPS

35:11

constellation. Military SACCOM. space

35:13

-based missile warning and

35:16

Earth monitoring, space

35:18

domain awareness. As

35:20

you know, my teammate Colonel

35:22

Nick Hague just came back

35:24

from the space station last

35:26

month. One the things

35:28

we do as space domain awareness

35:30

is to make sure that the

35:32

47 ,000 or so objects that

35:34

are orbiting Earth as a space

35:36

force, we're tracking those using worldwide

35:39

sensors and we're sharing that data

35:41

with commercial uh partner nations

35:43

and nasa you know as a

35:45

fact so you know global space

35:47

operations is really the the core

35:49

which enables the the warfighter to

35:51

be more lethal but also supports

35:53

and enables the economy of the

35:55

of the united states the third this

35:57

is the other core function this is

35:59

the one as so why we were

36:01

established as a space force is what

36:03

we call space control for us

36:05

to provide space superiority this is

36:08

really where we talk about our ability

36:10

to ensure freedom of maneuver

36:12

and action on our own timing and

36:14

tempo within the space domain, but also

36:16

denying any kind of adversary the ability

36:18

to do the same. So

36:20

we say, okay, what is it we do as

36:22

a space force? It's assured space access, global

36:25

space operations, which we all do

36:27

those two very well, and really we're

36:29

removing and making investments is going

36:31

to be space control and our ability

36:33

to provide space superiority to the

36:35

nation and our allies. So from

36:37

the guardians that I love, and I get

36:40

up every day for, that's the work that

36:42

they're doing day in and day out. We

36:44

should clarify real quick. Guardians, that's the term for

36:46

the service members in the space force, as opposed

36:48

to like, yeah. Yes.

36:51

Which is way cooler than airmen. Just

36:54

in my opinion. Yeah,

36:56

I love it. I love it. So

36:58

I think it's worth mentioning that if

37:00

I understand correctly, I've written about this

37:02

a number of times, when

37:04

you look at the vast

37:06

impact the orbital assets have on

37:09

our lives. You mentioned GPS. There's

37:11

tracking ships at sea. There's

37:14

tracking cargo moving in trucks

37:16

and trains. There's agriculture,

37:18

you know, tracking crop health

37:20

and, and, and planting cycles and

37:22

so forth. Banking transactions

37:24

are often handled by satellite. All kinds

37:26

of communications, including video. I mean, the

37:28

list goes on and on and on.

37:30

And if that suddenly got switched off

37:32

one afternoon by some bad guy, Our

37:36

economy would come to a grinding halt

37:38

and much of the things that a

37:40

lot of us depend on day to

37:42

day would suddenly just stop. That is

37:44

all part of your domain, correct? Yes,

37:46

it is. 100%. And

37:48

that's why when we talk about

37:51

the amount of investment and focus

37:53

on global space operations, all the

37:55

things that you just talked about

37:57

is vitally important because from a

37:59

supporting function, making sure the economy

38:01

stays strong, making sure that the

38:03

nation remains safe, but also that

38:05

our joint war fighters rely on

38:07

a lot of that capability as

38:09

well. And that's why we still

38:12

do that today and consider those

38:14

inherently military functions. And

38:16

then which is why on the space superiority,

38:18

space control side, our ability to what

38:20

we call protect and defend, right?

38:22

So that no one has the

38:24

ability to take away those functions from

38:26

us and be able to protect

38:28

and defend them. That kind of leads

38:30

into the space priority space control

38:32

aspect of the mission set because you

38:34

know for many years It was

38:36

kind of a benign environment like we

38:38

were building you know these billion -dollar

38:40

satellites the size of buses right

38:42

and you know One of one of

38:44

my favorite teammates here in the

38:46

Space Force Lieutenant General Deanna Birch. She's

38:48

our our lead operator for the

38:50

service You know she'll go on these

38:52

big fat juicy targets that are

38:54

just sitting on the space because when

38:56

we designed and launched them We

38:58

were not necessarily thinking about a contested

39:00

domain, but it has become that.

39:02

So now we have to think a

39:04

little differently in how we, you

39:06

know, with proliferated constellations and resiliency

39:08

and all the things that go into

39:11

that kind of war fighting domain. And

39:13

I think just one more follow -up,

39:15

Tarek. When Space Force was announced, a

39:17

number of us were a little confused

39:19

about what was going to be different.

39:22

Of course, you know, it's an independent

39:24

service and all that, so that makes

39:26

sense. But having spent a little bit

39:28

of time around Space Command, I wasn't

39:30

clear on exactly what the difference was

39:32

between Space Force's role and what Space

39:34

Command for the Air Force had been

39:36

doing for years before that. Yeah.

39:38

You know, it's really actually interesting that

39:40

you asked me that question. I

39:43

was just in Colorado Springs, I think it

39:45

was last week for the Space Imposium. Do

39:47

you guys attend the Space Imposium? Not the

39:49

Broadmoor? My colleague Brett was

39:51

there last week. I was so, I had a

39:53

lot of FOMO because that's one of my favorite

39:55

conferences to be able to do too. Yeah, it's

39:57

a phenomenal conference. I mean, Space Foundation does a

39:59

phenomenal job. You know, Heather Pringle out there, the

40:01

CEO. So long relationship with,

40:03

you know, with the space community

40:06

and the Air Force and now at

40:08

the Space Force. But anyway, at

40:10

the closing dinner on Thursday evening

40:12

at the Broadmoor, they did a fireside

40:14

chat with myself. as the Chief

40:16

Master Sergeant in Space Force, and

40:18

Chief Master Sergeant Jacob Simmons, who

40:21

is the command senior. This is the

40:23

leader for US Space Command. And

40:25

part of the discussion to the audience

40:27

was the difference between what does

40:29

the service do and what does the

40:31

combatant command do? Because we put

40:33

space in a lot of things, right?

40:35

There's a lot of titles and

40:37

words. And it was our,

40:39

you know, because we get this question quite

40:41

often. So we figured, hey, the two most

40:43

senior enlisted individuals, Jake is also

40:45

a guardian, a longtime mentor of mine.

40:47

So we got up on stage, we did

40:49

a fireside chat, and we kind of

40:51

talked exactly through that. So when you talk

40:53

about the distinction between the both, you

40:56

know, a lot of times they

40:58

say, the services, organized training equipment. So

41:00

what does that mean? We recruit

41:02

guardians, we train and we develop

41:04

them, we prepare them, we give them the

41:06

warfighter ethos. We also make

41:08

investments and build and purchase

41:10

the capabilities that the combatant

41:12

command needs. Those are

41:15

organized, trained and equipped. But

41:17

also it's teaching the guardians, preparing

41:19

them that they can command and control,

41:21

they can integrate these capabilities into

41:23

the larger joint force. And then we

41:25

present those, if you will, to

41:27

the combatant command. And then under the

41:29

authorities of General Whiting, who's the

41:31

commander of US Space Command, will

41:33

execute and command and control the

41:35

forces we represent. So there is

41:37

a kind of distinct difference in

41:39

roles and responsibilities. They're

41:41

closely linked, especially because of how

41:43

we were established, so close

41:45

together, both in 2019. General

41:48

Raymond was still headed at one point

41:50

for both organizations. But

41:52

there is clear delineation. But

41:54

as a service, we are

41:56

trained and equipped, but we also are

41:58

responsible to train and develop to

42:00

make sure we can execute warfighting capabilities

42:03

as we present that to the

42:05

combat command under General Whiting's authority as

42:07

a combatant commander. And I'm not

42:09

moving to Colorado, and I'm not moving

42:11

to Alabama. I am stationed

42:13

in the Pentagon, and I get asked that

42:15

question quite a bit too. I've

42:17

never seen the Pentagon, but it looks like an amazing

42:19

place. I think this is the first time we

42:21

could say that we're coming live from the Pentagon. Right.

42:24

Right. Right. Oh, yeah. We've got to have

42:26

that in the promo. Okay. Tarq,

42:28

I know you. This is a museum. you guys

42:30

want to come check it out, let me know.

42:32

But there's a lot of phenomenal things to see

42:34

here in the building. Yes. Finally, we got a

42:36

benefit from doing this podcast. Okay. I

42:38

know Tarq's got a big question coming up. So let's

42:40

take a quick break. We'll be right back. Stand by. Imagine

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made simple. You

43:47

know, Chief, I really appreciate kind

43:49

of the overview of what the

43:51

Space Force does and it seemed

43:53

like really a pro apropos. Very

43:56

good timing that

43:58

you're here with us

44:00

for this interview. Because

44:03

this week, as we were talking before

44:05

we started recording, General

44:07

Salzman, Chief of Space Operations released

44:09

the space war fighting framework for

44:11

the Space Force. And

44:13

I was burning to ask you about

44:15

how important having a framework like

44:17

that was. Because I guess one would

44:20

assume, as you just detailed

44:22

all of the different buckets that the

44:24

space force goes on to really keep

44:26

all of us in the technology that

44:28

I think maybe we take for granted

44:30

that is in space on our daily

44:32

lives. Keep

44:34

all of that working. But I'm

44:36

curious how a document like this new

44:38

framework either consolidates or crystallizes a

44:40

lot of things because as it says

44:42

kind of here in the description

44:44

that it's it establishes the common lexicon

44:46

for counter space operations which sounds

44:49

pretty exciting but it details both the

44:51

the the offensive and defensive actions

44:53

that guardians can can can do you

44:55

know basically what their their their

44:57

their actions can can be uh to

44:59

to oversee that that space uh

45:01

domain there but uh i guess what

45:03

what what type of i guess

45:05

what's what's the role of a document

45:07

like this in day -to -day operations

45:09

for guardians um you know, as things

45:12

change or occur in space. Yeah. So

45:14

thanks for the question. You know, we've had

45:16

phenomenal couple of years, you know, like we said

45:18

earlier, we're just, you know, we're,

45:20

you know, five and a half years old, you

45:23

know, almost. And

45:25

so there's so many foundational things

45:27

as a service, only five years

45:29

into this journey. You know,

45:31

we get compared a lot to the other services.

45:33

When you think about, you know, I think the

45:35

Army and Marine Corps would be 250 years old,

45:37

you know, this year. And

45:40

they have... battlefield, wartime,

45:42

lessons learned, examples,

45:44

proven doctrine, like

45:46

all those things that kind of build

45:48

that when you think about a

45:50

military professional, when you think about, you

45:52

know, doctrine and war fighting architectures,

45:54

right, there's a lot there. From

45:56

the space force perspective, you know, we

45:59

know one we're only five and a

46:01

half years old, if you will, and we've

46:03

never necessarily, we've never had war in

46:05

space. And we don't want that either. Right,

46:08

but what are the documents like the

46:10

like the war -fighting construct that we put

46:12

out to kind of talk about from an

46:14

integration planning perspective to communicate to the

46:16

broader joint and collision audience? What

46:18

are the capabilities? What's the common

46:20

lexicon or the terms of reference when

46:22

you're thinking about operational planning when

46:24

you think about what the Space Force

46:26

can do or also more importantly

46:29

when you think about the Space Force,

46:31

how do you ask? for capabilities. What

46:33

are the questions you ask? How

46:35

do you frame those so that

46:38

we can integrate into the joint

46:40

force is really important because we

46:42

just don't have a lot of

46:44

the history that it's presumptive that

46:46

everyone understands it, right? So capturing

46:48

our thoughts on terms of reference,

46:51

lexicon, what is space superiority mean?

46:53

What does defensive space operations mean?

46:55

What does defensive cyber operations mean

46:57

from the service perspective and kind

46:59

of baselining across the joint

47:01

force is really important. And I'll

47:04

be honest, that's not only an external

47:06

message, but it's also an internal

47:08

message as well. Young guardians

47:10

across the space force should be reading

47:12

these documents so they understand why

47:14

they go to work every day. Why

47:16

am I working at 3 a .m.

47:19

on a Saturday looking at data

47:21

coming down off of the sensor for

47:23

space domain awareness? Why is that

47:25

important? What's the war fighting construct? Where

47:27

do I see myself in the

47:29

larger ecosystem? So, you know, we've

47:31

done the War Front and Cards, like you

47:33

said, came out. We also

47:35

put out earlier this month,

47:38

Space Force Doctor and Document

47:40

One, which also, right, kind

47:42

of encapsulates a lot of

47:44

the papers and speeches and

47:46

thoughts that General Salsman specifically

47:48

has had the last couple

47:50

of years in a formalized

47:52

document that now individuals can

47:54

read and reference and kind

47:56

of talk about the who we are and what

47:58

we do. So, you know, it's

48:00

been a phenomenal couple of years,

48:02

but these official documents really help solidify,

48:04

communicate to a broader audience and

48:06

also some internally. What

48:08

are we doing and how are we going

48:10

to have to, especially if we're talking about

48:12

the space priority, space control perspective, because we

48:14

really haven't done that in a wartime environment. But

48:17

what are we planning for? How do we talk about

48:19

it? How do we integrate it? That's why those documents are

48:21

so important. Yeah, I guess

48:23

in an emergency you don't want

48:25

to have to be coming up with

48:27

that stuff on the fly So

48:29

it sounds like it's good to have

48:31

that like already written down. That's

48:33

right So we've seen recent fact we

48:35

reported I think last week on

48:37

a Russian satellite Yet another cosmos, which

48:39

means they're gonna tell us what

48:41

it is That from which a small

48:43

mass appeared to detach and maybe

48:45

start heading towards some of our orbital

48:48

assets. And of course, we've seen this before

48:50

with both the Russians and the Chinese. I

48:53

assume this is something you

48:55

track with great care other than

48:57

changing the trajectory or the

48:59

orbit of one of our satellites.

49:01

If something is threatened that's

49:03

vitally important, what

49:06

can you do and what steps might be

49:08

taken in the future to make these

49:10

kind of assets more defensible? Yeah.

49:12

So, you know, this is kind of

49:14

the broader discussion about what are norms of

49:16

behavior in space? What

49:18

are the international norms?

49:20

We have pretty good

49:22

documented and implemented norms

49:24

behavior at sea, maritime

49:26

sea law, FAA and

49:29

air traffic control. There

49:31

are things that pretty

49:33

much people understand what

49:35

is right and what

49:37

is wrong, and there's

49:39

enforcing ecosystems that allow

49:41

that to operate effectively. In

49:44

the space domain, to your

49:46

point, What what is responsible behavior

49:48

if you're gonna have a

49:50

RPO or one of your proximity

49:52

operations? What is a

49:54

safe distance? Is that considered

49:57

aggressive? Is it not these

49:59

are all kind of discussions that that

50:01

that we're kind of having so

50:03

so a lot of the systems to

50:05

your point when they were designed

50:07

for in a foreign environment where we

50:09

were not necessarily worrying about those

50:11

things But why it's so important now

50:14

with the future systems that that

50:16

that the situation has changed so you

50:18

know what counter you know counteraction

50:20

defensive capabilities do we have for them

50:22

we don't have maneuver without regret

50:24

now there's some you know we have

50:26

a couple of refueling demos that

50:29

we're going to do but as you

50:31

know right the physics of orbit

50:33

you're a little limited on what you

50:35

can do there there are some

50:37

maneuvers that you can do but for

50:39

the most part one of the

50:41

most important things is us

50:43

from a space domain awareness perspective,

50:45

that when these activities occur, one

50:48

that we're aware of it, there

50:50

is no what General Salsman talked

50:52

about operational surprise, that we

50:54

are winning what is happening in the domain. There's

50:57

attribution, we know who is

50:59

doing it, which is also

51:01

extremely important. So

51:03

what do we do about the first things? We

51:05

got to be able to know that it's happening

51:07

and we have to have attribution, right? So kind

51:09

of that no operational surprise as these things occur.

51:11

But this also goes into the

51:14

other discussion about protect and defend. What

51:18

are our capabilities to protect

51:20

and defend our resources and assets,

51:22

you know, in orbit? Other

51:24

than attribution, a

51:26

strongly worded demarc against another nation,

51:28

calling them outright for irresponsible behavior. But

51:31

this goes into, you know,

51:33

I think, you know, General Widing

51:36

at his speech at Space

51:38

Symposium, last Monday, I

51:40

think it was, as a combat commander

51:42

talked about, you know, fires from, you

51:44

know, fires and maneuvers in space and

51:46

weapons in space, basically, right? But

51:49

when you say weapons, right? Weapons are

51:51

not inherently offensive and defensive, right?

51:54

It's how you employ them, right?

51:56

But we have to have the ability to

51:58

protect and defend the resources of which

52:00

we rely on, but not only from an

52:02

economic perspective, but also

52:04

from a warfighting perspective. So

52:07

those are some of the discussions. And

52:09

you said, when you, some of these, you

52:11

know, activities that occur and we got

52:13

to understand that they're happening, we have to

52:15

have, that we know who's doing it,

52:17

attribution, and then right, working to make sure

52:19

that we have TTPs, status techniques

52:21

and procedures to do, you know,

52:23

whatever we can, but also have the

52:25

systems in order to protect and

52:27

defend. um, national

52:30

assets. So I'll just

52:32

bet you guys get some interesting

52:34

males and emails about different people

52:36

that have ideas about defensive systems.

52:38

And one for that file, which

52:40

I found years ago, I was

52:42

working on a book about space

52:44

age chapter about the lunar module

52:47

Grumman Grumman's lunar module from Apollo. And

52:49

there was one supposed study

52:52

by Grumman aircraft, which I

52:54

have never been able to,

52:56

uh, to actually vet fully,

52:58

so it's a little suspect.

53:00

But supposedly, when

53:02

the Grumman folks were trying to figure out

53:05

ways to extend the life of the

53:07

lunar module beyond 1972 in the Apollo program,

53:09

I mean, they were going to

53:11

use parts of it to do

53:14

the Apollo telescope mount on Skylab.

53:16

But my favorite one was an

53:18

orbital, a crewed orbital

53:20

spacecraft that would be able to

53:22

rendezvous with Russian satellites and

53:24

spray paint their cameras. Which

53:26

I thought was a pretty

53:29

cool. It's not even a weapon.

53:31

It's more like a nuisance.

53:33

I guess Yeah, yeah, I wonder

53:35

I wonder what the per

53:37

diem rate would be for that

53:39

job. That's that's got to

53:41

be crazy Yeah, you know when

53:43

you think about Here's

53:46

the other thing too, when we

53:48

talk about space priority, space

53:50

control, and what are the measures

53:52

we can take to kind

53:54

of deny an adversary their ability

53:56

to kind of maneuver free

53:58

within the domain. Some

54:01

of those actions are not limited to the domain, right? There's

54:04

kind of three segments when you think

54:06

about space operations, right? There's the on

54:08

orbit asset, and to your point about

54:10

that Russian vehicle

54:12

that was maneuvering maybe close to

54:14

one of our resources. There's

54:16

the link, right? There's got to be a command

54:18

and control, right? They know the EW spectrum, and

54:21

there's a ground station somewhere, right?

54:23

I mean, so when you think about the ground

54:25

station, the link, and the on -overed asset, when

54:27

we're trying to solve a hard problem, guardians

54:29

are thinking, maybe

54:31

to provide the effect that we need,

54:33

is it necessarily in the domain? There's

54:36

other things that we can do. And,

54:39

you know, that's why there's a

54:41

lot of research on analysis, our intelligence

54:43

operators, where I try to understand

54:45

the entire ecosystem and infrastructure of anything

54:47

that we need to be concerned

54:49

about, because we're not just going to

54:51

be limited to the on orbit

54:53

perspective. There's a lot of ways of skin

54:56

that cat, if you will. All

54:58

right, we will be back in just a

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56:00

help your organization as we

56:02

create confidence in the connected

56:04

world. Yeah,

56:06

you know, I was really curious, you

56:08

know, in the early days of the space

56:10

age, right? There was a bit of

56:12

a. I don't want to say if it

56:14

was like a scramble, but it seems

56:16

like each branch of the U .S. military

56:18

services like had their own plan for how

56:20

to use space, you

56:22

know, where, you know, either the army had

56:24

plans, you know, for reconnaissance or the

56:27

Air Force is like, yes, obviously we're going

56:29

to have pilots, so we should get

56:31

domain over space. But having an actual space

56:33

force, you know, that has kind of

56:35

a really clear picture like you outlined earlier,

56:38

you know, defined I guess in what

56:40

is this, the 21st century. Now, you

56:42

know, it seems to make a lot of

56:44

sense, but I'm curious if kind of similar

56:47

to those early days where maybe there might

56:49

have been a lot of infighting over who

56:51

gets what domain, have there been any challenges

56:53

to the space forces, you know, organization or

56:55

outreach to get its message understood. And

56:57

I'm curious, you know, what, you know,

56:59

like what your answer to that, you know,

57:01

was to kind of make sure that

57:04

things continue going smoothly. Yeah, you know, as

57:06

an example, when the service set up

57:08

the first couple of years, there was an

57:10

assessment of what investments the other services

57:12

were making that kind of fell within the

57:14

roles and responsibilities of the Space Force. And

57:17

a lot of capabilities were transferred

57:19

from other services into the Space

57:21

Force, as an example. The

57:24

army had what to call the JTAG

57:26

system, which was a kind of a

57:28

tactical theater level missile warning capability that

57:30

they owned the equipment and the soldiers

57:32

were trained to execute that. When the

57:34

service space first stood up, the army

57:36

transferred that mission and equipment over to

57:39

us. You know, on the

57:41

Navy side, you know, the Navy

57:43

uses the Muos narrowband consolation for sea

57:45

communications. That mission set

57:47

came over to the the

57:49

space force and the army

57:51

again they used they used

57:53

the um the the i'm

57:55

trying to think the wide

57:57

wideband global constellation system the

58:00

um who uh they use a

58:02

lot of wideband and they had

58:05

ground stations uh wisox wideband silent

58:07

operations centers where they had soldiers

58:09

stationed, and they would divvy up the

58:11

bandwidth to make sure that soldiers in

58:13

the theater had silent communications. That

58:15

mission came over to the Space

58:17

Force. So there was an initial

58:19

assessment of services all had a

58:21

little bit of space, and

58:24

then what made sense to come into

58:26

the service. But even

58:28

today, there's still investment for

58:30

some tactical capability. For

58:32

example, on the Army side, a

58:36

multi -domain task

58:38

force, MDTS, that

58:40

they're investing in. They have some

58:42

space capabilities that will be organic

58:44

and inherent to the army because

58:46

they also understand the value of

58:48

what space brings, but

58:50

it's integrated into their tactical

58:52

schema maneuver. So

58:54

it's not necessarily, hey, you're going to leverage it, but

58:56

it's not a space force, a mission. But

58:59

it's a space capability that's going to

59:01

be organic to the army and they're going

59:03

to maintain that You know, we use

59:05

it again, you know, we think about pilots

59:07

the Air Force isn't the only branch

59:09

with pilots and aircraft So right there are

59:11

some things that are kind of naturally

59:13

belong to the space force as we kind

59:15

of went through this but also an

59:17

acknowledgement And we talk about how

59:20

important the domain is, you know, space

59:22

capabilities underpins lethality of all the services. There

59:24

are some investments and some things that services

59:26

will continue to do. But

59:28

I think when you think

59:30

about space superiority specifically and

59:32

space control in the domain, freedom

59:35

of maneuver in the domain, that

59:37

is squarely within the realm and

59:39

responsibility of the space force. Yeah,

59:42

I'm curious what, how

59:45

far that domain You know, you see

59:47

it expanding because as we know, you

59:49

know, NASA with the Artemis program wants

59:51

to send astronauts back to the moon

59:53

that hopefully that happens in the next

59:55

couple of years. But unlike in, you

59:57

know, maybe the first space race where

59:59

there was, you know, one other competitor,

1:00:01

the Soviet Union at the time, to

1:00:03

get there, you've got many other nations

1:00:05

that are all trying to get to

1:00:07

the moon to use it for different

1:00:09

ways. And I'm curious what role you

1:00:11

see the space force playing in either

1:00:13

lunar exploration, lunar security, uh search and

1:00:15

rescue you know that kind of a

1:00:18

thing uh because it seems like if

1:00:20

your domain is space it just keeps

1:00:22

going forever once you get off the

1:00:24

earth even though we use most of

1:00:26

the assets here on the ground yeah

1:00:28

um you know uh for many years

1:00:30

lexicon when we talked about space there

1:00:32

was like this glass ceiling if you

1:00:34

would at geostationary right the 22 000

1:00:36

miles up uh out um where a

1:00:38

lot of our you know communications satellites

1:00:40

are And that was kind

1:00:42

of seen for many years, you know

1:00:44

in the circles operational that I that I

1:00:46

worked in it's kind of like the

1:00:48

edge of space The boy has that changed

1:00:51

to your point sis lunar, but I

1:00:53

think about just activity on the moon alone.

1:00:55

I just I think over the last

1:00:57

at least You know six or seven months,

1:00:59

right? You know non

1:01:01

non -nation sponsors like commercial or

1:01:03

landing on the moon now,

1:01:05

right when you think about

1:01:09

Jared Eisenman, right? He

1:01:11

did this personal commercial

1:01:13

spacewalk. Think about where we

1:01:15

are. So the domain to

1:01:17

your point is really expanding and

1:01:19

to kind of think. of 22 ,000

1:01:21

miles as kind of like the edge

1:01:23

of space is no longer the

1:01:26

case. So from a space force

1:01:28

perspective, you know, we

1:01:30

are looking as more and more individuals

1:01:32

are, you know, going out to Cislunar pass

1:01:34

the grain points. You know,

1:01:36

what is our ability to maintain space domain

1:01:38

awareness? What is our, what are

1:01:40

the technologies and the research and development

1:01:42

we have to do there, you know, to

1:01:44

help align, right? You know, especially as

1:01:46

NASA and other civil agencies, You

1:01:48

know project and you know reach

1:01:50

further out into the stars There's

1:01:52

gonna be a role for the

1:01:54

space space force to play there

1:01:56

But but yeah, I mean it

1:01:58

where does it end? It doesn't

1:02:00

right and that's the exciting part

1:02:02

of this job Is that you

1:02:05

know trying to have guardians think

1:02:07

about our role right in those

1:02:09

dreamers and explorers? That they're

1:02:11

gonna rely on us to make sure

1:02:13

they can freely move an over

1:02:15

and take advantage of that So wherever

1:02:17

you know, national interests expand out

1:02:19

to, that will be where the space

1:02:21

force expands out to as well. You

1:02:24

know, Tariq, I'm beginning to get the

1:02:26

feeling his job is a whole lot more

1:02:28

interesting and enjoyable than ours. And the

1:02:30

benefits are probably much better. Yeah, we need

1:02:32

to have a conversation. We have, of

1:02:34

course, no qualifications to do anything like that.

1:02:37

But that doesn't mean we want to try. That's

1:02:39

like when we want to be astronauts. We were young. So

1:02:42

here's a question that's been bugging me

1:02:44

for Gosh, decades. I'm sure it

1:02:46

bugs you guys too. Are

1:02:48

there any preventative or defensive measures

1:02:50

that one can take against something

1:02:52

like an EMP, which has always

1:02:54

been sorry, that's an electromagnetic pulse

1:02:56

weapons. So you send a small

1:02:58

nuke up to space that goes

1:03:00

boom over a country and everybody's

1:03:02

electrical grid and all their electronics

1:03:04

go down. At least that's what

1:03:06

they say in fiction. I think

1:03:08

it's a little dressed up. But

1:03:10

how serious is that and how

1:03:12

do you address something like that? So,

1:03:16

you know, for many years, you

1:03:18

know, I have worked in facilities

1:03:20

that were EMP hardened, if you

1:03:22

will. Like, I've walked through the

1:03:24

brass plated doors with the contacts

1:03:26

that are rounded and, you know,

1:03:28

the signs that don't step on

1:03:30

the contacts, right? Because they got

1:03:32

to stay clean and fresh and

1:03:34

make sure we have to close

1:03:36

that door, right? To protect the

1:03:38

internals from EMP on the ground

1:03:40

is really important. You know, several

1:03:42

of our on -orbit assets, right,

1:03:45

that are strategic in nature, are

1:03:47

designed to be EMP -hardened, if you

1:03:49

will. The challenge with that,

1:03:51

whether you're on the ground or on orbit,

1:03:53

it's expensive. And it's really

1:03:55

hard to do. So

1:03:57

are there ways, strategies to

1:04:00

kind of protect yourselves from

1:04:02

EMP? Yes. And

1:04:05

we have some things, we've

1:04:07

made some progress, we have

1:04:09

made grounds, some strides there,

1:04:11

but when you think about

1:04:13

the cost of launch, every

1:04:16

ounce, every pound matters, and

1:04:18

we talk about where we

1:04:20

are with proliferated constellations and

1:04:22

the... number of payloads per

1:04:24

launch has just exploded with

1:04:26

Esper rings. Think about Starlink

1:04:28

and the dozens of microsatellites

1:04:30

that they put on orbit

1:04:33

all the time. It's

1:04:35

kind of hard to have EMP

1:04:37

hardening in that kind of construct.

1:04:40

because it's supposed to be replenished. But

1:04:42

when you think about some of the challenges, and

1:04:45

I don't know if you're trying to allude to some of

1:04:47

the reports on Russia, and maybe

1:04:49

putting on some capabilities on

1:04:51

orbit or thinking about

1:04:53

having nuclear capability as an

1:04:55

offensive or just a

1:04:57

weapon in general, it

1:04:59

would have a devastating impact, right, to

1:05:01

your point. Unlike,

1:05:04

you know, it's physics.

1:05:06

right so there you know whether

1:05:08

it be commercial civil or military

1:05:11

you know whether it be leo

1:05:13

meal or geo orbit there's gonna

1:05:15

be a lot of collateral damage

1:05:17

and it would you know be

1:05:19

able to recover from that. From

1:05:21

a global perspective, we just

1:05:23

be unthinkable, right? And we talked earlier,

1:05:25

right? Space provides such

1:05:27

an infrastructure to make us

1:05:29

as effective and efficient as

1:05:32

we are in agriculture, in

1:05:34

finance, in transportation, safety,

1:05:37

power grids, in cities.

1:05:41

All that would be at risk

1:05:43

if there's irresponsible behavior in

1:05:45

the context of any kind of

1:05:47

EMP or nuclear device. in

1:05:49

the orbit. So hopefully

1:05:52

that's something we never have to come

1:05:54

to. There is some protection that we

1:05:56

are able to do, but for large and most

1:05:58

part, when you think about what we rely upon,

1:06:00

what is it in orbit, large

1:06:03

preponderance would not be secured

1:06:05

and protected from an EMP. Something

1:06:08

to aspire to. Change

1:06:11

of subject here. One

1:06:13

of the things, I remember what

1:06:15

Space Force was first being announced, One

1:06:18

of the things Tark and I spent time

1:06:20

doing was disabusing people the notion that this

1:06:22

was going to look like Battlestar Galactica with

1:06:24

guys and vipers flying around and shooting at

1:06:26

each other in orbit. But I

1:06:28

assume this is a two -part

1:06:30

question. First is, I assume that

1:06:32

part of your long range planning

1:06:34

is for crewed spaceflight. And

1:06:36

if so, would there be a role somewhat

1:06:38

like a space coast guard at some point

1:06:40

where you're guarding the lanes and CIS lunar

1:06:42

space and so forth? Yeah,

1:06:45

we haven't had really too

1:06:47

many discussions on that, but

1:06:50

I think part of it

1:06:52

is watching where civil and

1:06:54

commercial go. When

1:06:56

you think about

1:06:58

commercial flights

1:07:00

today, when

1:07:02

there's NASA's launching, the

1:07:04

military from a recovery,

1:07:06

if you will, especially

1:07:09

back in the back.

1:07:11

terrestrial once they come back in the

1:07:13

atmosphere you know we the actually United

1:07:15

States Air Force is postured to do

1:07:17

any kind of rescue of astronauts right

1:07:19

once they kind of come back into

1:07:21

the atmosphere you know our ability to

1:07:23

be able to do something you know

1:07:25

in orbit today organically from the service

1:07:27

just kind of isn't there yet we

1:07:29

necessarily haven't been charged with that mission

1:07:31

and everything is what the what the

1:07:33

president says that this is a mission

1:07:35

right of the service so we haven't

1:07:37

been given that yet But there has

1:07:39

been some, you know, back of the

1:07:41

napkin, you know, at the end of

1:07:43

our Friday talking about, man, you know, what's

1:07:46

going to happen when we have

1:07:48

increased tourism and space as we

1:07:51

travel, you know, out, you know,

1:07:53

beyond low earth orbit? You

1:07:55

know, what is our roles and responsibilities

1:07:57

to do that? So it's exciting to

1:07:59

think about all that. But I think

1:08:01

to your point, I think that mission

1:08:03

set would probably start with the United

1:08:06

States Space Force as a responsibility. And

1:08:08

then probably, as that prevalence continues to

1:08:10

grow, I mean, who knows 50, 60

1:08:12

years from now where we're going to

1:08:15

be, to your point, is there a

1:08:17

space guard, a Coast Guard equivalent? I

1:08:20

don't know, but I assume that

1:08:22

the discussion would start with the

1:08:24

United States Space Force. And

1:08:26

again, we think about some of that. We

1:08:28

watch and see where commercial and civil are

1:08:30

going. We're

1:08:32

just gonna, you know, wherever national interests extend

1:08:34

out to, we will answer the call. But

1:08:37

it's exciting to think about it. It

1:08:39

really is. It is. This guard sounds really

1:08:41

sci -fi. That's really cool. You

1:08:43

know, I'm surprised it's taken us

1:08:45

this long. Chief, to get all

1:08:47

the way to astronauts and flying

1:08:49

in space and guardians and whatnot,

1:08:51

because you just said earlier how

1:08:53

Nick Hague just returned from the

1:08:55

space station the first, I guess

1:08:57

the first space force guardian to

1:08:59

launch inland. And I

1:09:01

guess Mike Hopkins swore, transitioned

1:09:04

over to the space force

1:09:06

for the first anniversary in

1:09:08

2020. But

1:09:10

I'm curious, what is

1:09:12

that path for for astronaut

1:09:14

guardians to go. And it

1:09:16

sounds like there's other work

1:09:19

that guardians are doing with

1:09:21

NASA already. Yeah, so

1:09:23

obviously, you know, Colonel Hague right now,

1:09:25

like I said, he was the first

1:09:27

guardian to actually launch. you

1:09:29

know, and went up for a

1:09:32

second visit to the International Space Station, really

1:09:34

proud of, you know, Carl Haig representing. But

1:09:37

it's really important to note, right, for

1:09:39

the audience and everyone else that, you

1:09:41

know, NASA is a civil organization and

1:09:43

the Space Force is a military organization.

1:09:45

But, right, because of the talent,

1:09:47

you know, when they're looking

1:09:49

for astronauts, all the services have

1:09:51

the ability to nominate candidates to become

1:09:53

astronauts with NASA and work for

1:09:55

NASA. So Colonel Hague was

1:09:57

on the International Space Station, you know,

1:09:59

that relationship. You know, he

1:10:02

was doing experiments, research

1:10:04

and development on behalf of NASA.

1:10:07

He was doing outreach and things

1:10:09

on behalf of NASA, if

1:10:11

you will. So it's a great partnership,

1:10:13

great relationship, having a guardian up there.

1:10:15

I got to tell you, there were

1:10:17

a couple of interactions that

1:10:19

the Space Force had with Colonel Hague while he

1:10:21

was on the space station. And I

1:10:23

thought when I worked in Colorado and when I

1:10:25

look out my window I would have Pike's Peak

1:10:28

in the background, hit office

1:10:30

on the International Space Station if you

1:10:32

know. I'm telling

1:10:34

you, like, Rod, if you think that

1:10:36

your windows out behind you have a

1:10:38

view, talking to

1:10:40

Colonel Hague when he's on the

1:10:42

space station was just phenomenal. So

1:10:44

it's inspiring for the kind of

1:10:46

have that relationship and allowing him

1:10:48

to continue exploration and the research

1:10:50

and development and things from the

1:10:53

civic perspective. That's amazing.

1:10:55

But that's just one guardian

1:10:57

that's working with NASA. I

1:10:59

spoke earlier today to

1:11:02

one of our sergeants, you know,

1:11:04

an enlisted member, William Wallace

1:11:06

is his name, and he

1:11:08

has his degree in biology, and

1:11:11

he partnered with an organization, and he

1:11:13

just spent some time out in Arizona

1:11:15

at Biosphere 2, and he was doing

1:11:17

research on kind of algae growth, right,

1:11:20

and ability, you know,

1:11:22

Can it grow in Mars

1:11:24

or lunar formations in

1:11:26

the dirt that's there? In

1:11:29

microgravity conditions, like what does that look

1:11:31

like? And he spent a couple of

1:11:33

weeks working with NASA and other researchers,

1:11:35

leveraging his biology degree, but also

1:11:37

his leadership and understanding of command

1:11:39

and control and space operations, because

1:11:41

he worked in mission command for

1:11:43

a little bit there. So

1:11:45

I had a chance to talk to him

1:11:48

earlier today. And another great example, right

1:11:50

of guardians in the space force, kind of

1:11:52

partnered with NASA, you know,

1:11:54

non -military related endeavors, but

1:11:57

just that passion for space and

1:11:59

the ability to kind of work

1:12:01

as a team is always really

1:12:03

inspiring and amazing opportunities for them

1:12:05

to do that. Yeah, I was

1:12:07

looking at that study that Sergeant

1:12:09

Wallace was part of and it

1:12:11

looked like because I mean,

1:12:13

just to put it in perspective,

1:12:15

it's like a blue -green algae

1:12:17

diet supplement for astronauts. And it

1:12:19

sounds like stuff that you could apply

1:12:21

on Earth for supplements across the

1:12:23

board. I mean, that seems like

1:12:25

stuff that goes far beyond even

1:12:27

spacework there too. That's right. Now,

1:12:30

William did tell me this morning, it doesn't taste

1:12:32

very good. But

1:12:34

as a military member,

1:12:37

how to remind him a little bit of hot sauce goes

1:12:39

a long way. Sounds

1:12:42

like somebody who's eating some MREs

1:12:44

in your past. Your Sriracha, Spiralina,

1:12:46

if I pronounce that right. I've

1:12:48

had my share. Have you had

1:12:51

a chance to get out to

1:12:53

Biosphere, by the way? I

1:12:55

have not. I have not. The

1:12:58

team does a really good job

1:13:00

trying to get a strategy for where

1:13:02

I get a chance to travel

1:13:04

and engage and do outreach and kind

1:13:06

of figure out where's the next

1:13:08

evolution, what are opportunities and relationships we

1:13:10

can build. I have not had

1:13:13

a chance to get out there yet.

1:13:15

Well, if you do, it's well worth it.

1:13:17

It's a little bit like Tomorrowland for

1:13:19

space, but it's quite an impressive

1:13:21

thing and it's amazing that they did it

1:13:24

and had the success they did. Do

1:13:27

you have anything you recommend in terms

1:13:29

of where people can go to get

1:13:31

a real sense of the Space Force

1:13:34

story and what's happening now and in

1:13:36

the future? Or how to say, you

1:13:38

know, I think, you know, when you

1:13:40

go out to, you know, we have

1:13:42

the spaceforce .com, spaceforce .mil. We have our

1:13:44

websites and, you know, we've been working

1:13:46

really hard. You know, there's

1:13:48

a, there's a pamphlet, if you will.

1:13:50

It's called Space Force 101 that has

1:13:52

some information in it. And there's a

1:13:54

link out on, on, on our sites.

1:13:56

We try to be, we're trying to

1:13:58

be really good at consolidating where there'd

1:14:00

be, you know, videos, interviews, news stories,

1:14:02

you know, in a central location that

1:14:04

allows, you know, only guardians that are

1:14:06

serving in their families. But also

1:14:08

for people who are interested, like

1:14:10

what is going on? What is

1:14:12

General Salsman talking about now? What

1:14:15

are some initiatives in the

1:14:17

way forward? What are the successes

1:14:19

that the service was doing

1:14:21

and highlight stuff like Sergeant Wallace

1:14:24

and Colonel Haig? But

1:14:26

usually we try to push people as

1:14:28

a digital service, try to push them

1:14:30

out to our social media and our

1:14:32

websites, try to get linked up and

1:14:34

kind of where we're going and what we're doing. I

1:14:37

have to say that your picture

1:14:39

and presentation of the Space Force, Chief,

1:14:41

is much more, what's the word,

1:14:44

accomplished than, I guess, how Netflix put

1:14:46

it in that TV show that

1:14:48

they put out. So it's nice to

1:14:50

know that it actually works and

1:14:52

that it's not just a comedy on

1:14:54

TV, so for sure. Yeah, I

1:14:56

appreciate that. And I will not be

1:14:59

seeing a Kokomo today. Did

1:15:02

you happen to watch the show when

1:15:04

it was on? I

1:15:06

did. I watched the first season.

1:15:08

I didn't watch the second season,

1:15:10

but I will tell you that

1:15:12

certain of the, and I won't

1:15:14

reveal it, but there are certain

1:15:16

nuances and certain parts of the

1:15:19

show that have me laughing so

1:15:21

hard, thinking to myself, are

1:15:23

they reading my emails?

1:15:25

Like what is going on?

1:15:29

But yeah, some of it was just very

1:15:31

much tongue -in -cheek. I'll be honest, right? You

1:15:33

know, Eve and I invited you to come

1:15:35

visit the Pentagon. But when you

1:15:37

walk down, you know, each service in the

1:15:39

Pentagon has a hallway. And

1:15:42

we have the Space Force hallway. And

1:15:44

there's, there's nods to the pop

1:15:46

culture of the Space Force, right? There's,

1:15:48

there's a reference to Star Trek,

1:15:50

right? And our Delta, you know, though,

1:15:53

you know, NASA used the Delta way before, you

1:15:55

know, years ago, you know, there

1:15:57

is something from this, from the

1:15:59

Netflix show, you know, there's bed and

1:16:01

jerry's ice cream. I mean, there's

1:16:03

some references about, you know, when you

1:16:05

think about space has been ingrained

1:16:07

in our, you know, science fiction pop

1:16:10

culture for so many years, and

1:16:12

now to have a space force, a

1:16:14

little nod to it. But

1:16:16

we have come so far in, you

1:16:18

know, the last five a half years, we

1:16:20

are looking at like, okay, Um,

1:16:22

maybe that was appropriate, you know, four

1:16:24

and a half years ago, right? But now

1:16:26

we've got real guardians doing real work

1:16:29

for the nation and we're looking to see,

1:16:31

you know, how do we start to

1:16:33

tell that story as well? Well, but

1:16:35

I get it all the time on, on the

1:16:37

culture. You know, you

1:16:39

got to embrace it, right? I mean, it's

1:16:41

kind of cool, but, you know, but it allows

1:16:43

me right to kind of pivot to the,

1:16:45

you know, ha ha, but let's

1:16:48

talk about what we're really doing. Right.

1:16:50

This is serious work. Well,

1:16:52

sir, I want to thank you for

1:16:54

joining us today for episode 157 that

1:16:56

and I apologize in advance that we're

1:16:58

going to call Space Force because you

1:17:00

just have to say it that way.

1:17:03

I grew up in the sixties, you

1:17:05

know, everything sounded like that. Where

1:17:07

can we, you kind of gave us an idea

1:17:10

already, but is there, is there any other spot online

1:17:12

that we might want to go just to see

1:17:14

what you're up to or your department? Yeah,

1:17:16

so I have myself as

1:17:18

the office of the Chief Ambassador

1:17:20

of the Space Force, you

1:17:22

know, has a Facebook site, an

1:17:25

Instagram site, also, you know,

1:17:27

the Space Force in and of

1:17:29

itself. Like I said, as

1:17:31

a digital service, we're really trying to leverage

1:17:33

what is the way that we can

1:17:35

communicate to masses, you know, in a

1:17:37

platform that allows them to do that. So,

1:17:39

you know, if you go to the websites, go

1:17:41

to the social media sites, that's probably a

1:17:43

really good landing point. And now we'll have your

1:17:45

links to wherever you guys want to go,

1:17:47

but we really try to highlight and say this

1:17:49

is kind of where we are, what we're

1:17:52

doing, easy to access from your phone or wherever

1:17:54

you are to kind of tell the Space

1:17:56

Force story and really brag about Guardians and brag

1:17:58

about the things that we're doing. That's really

1:18:00

important. And I'm honored to have

1:18:02

the chance be able to do that. Excellent.

1:18:05

Tarek, where can we find you playing

1:18:07

Intergalactic Warrior these days? Well, you can find

1:18:09

me at space .com as always, Rod, also

1:18:11

on the X right at Tarek J.

1:18:13

Malik and Blue Sky too. You can find

1:18:15

me on YouTube at Space Ron Plays

1:18:17

and this weekend you will find me on

1:18:19

Broadway because I'm going to go see

1:18:21

a show. It's going to be exciting. And

1:18:24

help my daughter build her Pinewood Derby car

1:18:26

for Girl Scout. What is this with all

1:18:28

this leisure time when you should be over

1:18:30

at space .com? Bring us more news. And

1:18:33

of course... always find me at

1:18:35

pilebooks .com or at astramagazine .com or on

1:18:37

some social media, although not as

1:18:39

much as TARC. And maybe

1:18:41

sooner, the Space Force Recruiting Depot near you.

1:18:43

Who knows? Remember,

1:18:45

you can always drop us a line

1:18:47

at twist at twit .tv. That's TWIS

1:18:49

at twit .tv. We welcome your comments,

1:18:52

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1:19:28

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