0:00

Welcome to another

0:02

episode of Time and

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Attention. The podcast

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dedicated to helping

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you become a

0:11

better more intentional

0:13

human being. This

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is episode number

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144. Bad productivity

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advice. Bad productivity

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advice. Bad productivity

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advice. You leave.

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You're going on a trip. I

0:30

leave. On a jet plane. I

0:32

leave for America tomorrow, Arden. Yes.

0:34

You keep saying this. I hope you

0:36

have a wonderful trip. And I will

0:38

miss you. Although I'll be so busy

0:40

this week, I won't even notice

0:42

your God. We're recording this

0:45

on January 19th. We are. The

0:47

day before, probably a lot of

0:49

change in America. A lot of

0:52

they're talking about tariffs and stuff.

0:54

We don't talk about politics on

0:56

the podcast. Nobody wants that. But

0:59

it feels as though I'm leaving for

1:01

America. You're going to like a

1:03

tiny town in Wisconsin. You're going

1:05

to just be there working with

1:07

your buddy. It would be a

1:09

good time for you. My buddy

1:12

Mike, we're planning out the course.

1:14

Which we are just a little

1:16

sneak peek. Little sneak peek. It'll

1:19

be on the topic of procrastination.

1:21

Everybody's favorite, least favorite thing.

1:23

Well, it came up a

1:25

lot in the survey. It

1:27

did. Which was interesting to

1:29

go through. Yeah. Number one

1:32

value that listeners

1:34

have. Self-direction? I can't

1:36

remember. I did the analysis.

1:38

I did the analysis and

1:40

I can't remember. It was

1:42

hedonism is number one. Right.

1:44

People love that pleasure. Giving

1:46

into a little enjoyment. Yeah, which

1:48

is procrastination, you know, it's giving

1:51

in to feel good. So it's

1:53

interesting how it maps on top

1:55

of the roof. Like the pleasure

1:58

of productivity is somewhat. But like

2:00

the laziness sometimes can be a

2:02

reward for being productive. It can

2:05

also get in the way of

2:07

being productive. Yeah, that doesn't really

2:09

resonate with me, but that's because

2:11

that's not a value I have highly.

2:14

So that's okay. You know what

2:16

else gets in the way of

2:18

us being productive? Bad productivity advice.

2:20

A lot of productivity advice. Yeah.

2:22

All these like crazy gymnastics level

2:25

types of productivity systems that are

2:27

supposed to make you. more productive

2:29

but actually just end up taking

2:31

way more time than just like

2:33

getting to work. Yeah, yeah, this

2:35

this episode and I also wrote

2:38

an article on this that will

2:40

link to in the show notes.

2:42

I called it don't use productivity

2:44

advice to procrastinate because there's just

2:46

so much bad advice out there

2:48

when it comes to productivity. There

2:51

is an article on Reddit that

2:53

inspired all of this on the

2:55

productivity subreddit. Speaking of procrastination. Read

2:57

it read it and the

2:59

article was is called it

3:01

came out a couple weeks

3:04

ago your productivity system seriously

3:06

and if you will link

3:08

to it as well but

3:10

if you're offended by F

3:12

bombs we will bleep them in

3:15

the pot but this article

3:17

I don't think it's for you

3:19

if you if you don't like

3:21

F bombs but it's all about

3:23

the bad productivity advice you know

3:25

the everything like notion templates that

3:28

take longer to set up than

3:30

doing the work like any anything

3:32

that just gets in the way

3:34

of us getting things done which

3:36

is so so much productivity advice

3:38

like there's a productivity advice in

3:41

my view is useful in so

3:43

far as it leads us to

3:45

become more intentional about how we're

3:47

spending our time But then

3:49

you hit the point of

3:52

diminishing marginal returns on that

3:54

advice. And then it's like,

3:57

what are you actually doing

3:59

here? seems to be getting in the way.

4:01

Yeah, there has to be, there's tradeoffs, right?

4:03

I mean, if you do learn, so I

4:05

mean, like something I really find useful is

4:07

like time tracking. And time tracking for me

4:10

is really helpful because A, it makes, helps

4:12

me make better predictions about how long things take.

4:14

I am still not good at this, but I'm

4:16

better than I used to be. And so I

4:18

do get a lot of value and it does

4:20

save me time because that or at least saves

4:23

me like stress because I know roughly how long

4:25

to allocate to different things when I'm like planning

4:27

my week. Yeah. And even something like planning your

4:29

week can take a lot of time if you're

4:31

overthinking it, but. There also, there are pros,

4:34

so those are the costs, right? It

4:36

takes time to set those things up,

4:38

but it has advantages where like, I'm

4:40

better at making sure I say no

4:42

to things, I'm better at making sure

4:45

I allocate time to stuff that I've

4:47

committed to. So there are pros and

4:49

cons of anything, but time tracking is

4:51

a really good example of something that

4:53

can be really bad productivity advice, because

4:56

it can turn into this like crazy

4:58

complicated system where you're filling out spreadsheets,

5:00

tracking every 15 minutes of time, and

5:02

setting reminders, like, every hour to make sure

5:04

you've tracked the time. And I found,

5:07

like, I have done many different forms

5:09

of time tracking, and I have found

5:11

that some are awful, because they take

5:13

like an hour of your day. Like,

5:15

like, a spreadsheet, actually, I find that,

5:17

like, the most cumbersome, and it's what

5:20

I did for a long time, and it

5:22

used to take me forever, and it used

5:24

to take me forever, in the show, in

5:26

the past. And I think it's a

5:28

great tool. It isn't free and it

5:30

has a monthly cost, which I know

5:33

is prohibitive and kind of annoying. But

5:35

it's one of those things where you

5:37

will make it back. Depending on

5:39

how you use it and how

5:41

it works with you, which I

5:43

think is another important thing with

5:45

all of this, is that all

5:47

productivity advice is relevant for some

5:49

people and not for others. Where

5:51

for me, it's so useful to know

5:53

how long I spend I spend on

5:56

different. Like, how long does it take

5:58

me to review a student's essay? proposal,

6:00

it's good for me to know that kind

6:02

of thing. So yeah, for me I think

6:05

there are so many bad apps and so

6:07

many bad systems for time tracking that this

6:09

is like the classic example I go to

6:11

in my head of stuff that can just

6:14

the cost massively outweigh the benefits. Yeah, for

6:16

me it's planning as well. So we

6:18

talked about the rule of three in

6:20

episode number 70, which is my favorite

6:22

intention setting ritual. But all it is

6:24

is you set three intentions for what

6:26

you want to get done on a

6:28

given day at the start of the

6:31

day or the end of the current

6:33

day. And that's it. Right? You

6:35

don't spend hours just planning out

6:37

every single day. And like there

6:39

are... You can go a bit

6:42

forward from that point, closer to

6:44

that point of diminishing returns, but

6:46

still get a lot of returns.

6:48

Like with time blocking is a

6:51

really good example that works for

6:53

a lot of people. Whatever your

6:55

method for that happens to be,

6:57

there's a few different ways of

7:00

time blocking. Then you hit that

7:02

point of diminishing returns really quickly.

7:04

The thing that comes to mind for

7:06

me for this are people that take

7:08

the GTD system too far. And there's

7:10

a lot of, I get a lot

7:12

of emails asking what people, what my

7:14

thoughts are about GTD. We talk about

7:17

it a lot on this show. And

7:19

this for those of you who

7:21

haven't heard about it, it's getting

7:23

things done. David Allen's classic book

7:25

and system. Oh, it is classic.

7:27

Yeah. Oh, it's like the productivity

7:30

by. for a lot of people.

7:32

Yeah, a lot of people love

7:34

it. Yeah, it's the book that

7:36

gets people into productivity because the

7:38

whole idea behind the system is

7:41

the more you get out of

7:43

your head and into some external

7:45

system, the more clearly you can

7:47

think, the more clearly you can

7:50

focus, and then you have this

7:52

system that you can manipulate tasks

7:54

and information and you can organize

7:57

things, but you can take that too

7:59

far. Hi. We've talked about my feelings

8:01

about getting things done. I am not obsessed

8:03

with getting things done

8:05

in the same way that you are, perhaps.

8:07

And I do find that I found

8:09

that there were a lot of steps involved

8:11

that I thought were really cumbersome. I

8:13

love the idea of getting things out of

8:15

your mind and making sure you just

8:17

have a system for jotting it down so

8:20

you don't have to constantly remember. I

8:22

love that, and I use that all the

8:24

time, but there are a lot of steps in

8:26

the book that involve where I'm like, I can

8:28

just make sure I put something in my calendar

8:30

the minute I think about it, and then I

8:32

don't know if I think about it again. Yeah,

8:34

I think it's one, yeah, exactly. Yeah,

8:36

you can take the low -hanging fruit.

8:38

And I think you can go a

8:40

bit forward past that point in the

8:42

system. Like one of my favorite techniques

8:44

that I use constantly every single week

8:46

is a waiting for list. And so

8:48

the idea is when you start to

8:51

wait for something or on somebody for

8:53

something, just put it on the list.

8:55

If you bought something and you don't

8:57

want to forget it to remember that

8:59

it should arrive, you put it on

9:01

the list. If you're waiting on an

9:03

important email, you put it on the

9:05

list and you review this a few

9:07

times a week. And so you don't

9:09

think about these things randomly throughout the

9:12

week. They don't occupy your head space.

9:14

You can just focus on what's in

9:16

front of you. And it's kind of

9:18

like that calendar effect. Ooh, that's a good

9:21

way of thinking about it actually. Where

9:23

if you're worried about not making it

9:25

to an appointment, you put it on

9:27

your calendar. And so you get alerts,

9:29

you get notifications. You can set it,

9:31

I want to be alerted the day

9:33

before and three hours before and all

9:36

this stuff. And then it's out of

9:38

your head because you know it's in

9:40

this system. And the waiting for list

9:42

is the same way. But then you

9:44

can reach the point of if you

9:46

follow every single piece of advice in

9:48

that book, you have a tickler file,

9:51

that's like, which... What is a tickler

9:53

file? Honestly, I don't know

9:55

if I even know what a

9:57

tickler file is to this

9:59

day. kind of things that

10:01

jot your memory about things. It's

10:03

just the reminders app, I think,

10:06

before the reminders app. Please don't

10:08

email about the tickler file. But

10:10

it's kind of one of those

10:13

ideas, and to its credit. I

10:15

should say, David Allen, who wrote

10:17

Getting Things Done, he says all

10:20

the time, we have to take

10:22

what works for us and leave

10:24

the rest, because you can definitely

10:26

go overboard with this stuff, and

10:29

he's seen it firsthand. We've had

10:31

him on the pod, episode number

10:33

91, and you can take GTD

10:36

too far. That's another really interesting

10:38

example of how you can take

10:40

productivity advice too far. But to

10:43

me... filtering out the good stuff,

10:45

it really just comes down to

10:47

one golden rule for productivity advice,

10:50

which is for every minute you

10:52

spend on a tactic, how

10:54

much time do you make back?

10:56

And you'll find that most of

10:59

the things that fall into that

11:01

category are the things that lead

11:03

you to become more intentional and

11:05

deliberate and less reactive with the

11:07

work that you do. What's a

11:09

good example of that in your

11:12

head? Oh, the rule of three

11:14

for sure. Calculating your biological prime

11:16

time, which we've talked about on

11:19

the podcast. You can schedule your

11:21

day around that. Time blocking is

11:23

another one. Understanding your entered cultivating.

11:26

how much energy you have is

11:28

another, I think, really, really underrated

11:30

strategy for becoming more productive. Like

11:33

simple things, like drinking enough water

11:35

throughout the day, is such a

11:38

simple strategy, but if you don't

11:40

drink enough water, your focus is

11:42

gonna decline. Taming distractions ahead of

11:44

time takes maybe 30 seconds to

11:46

turn on freedom and to have

11:48

the thought. to turn on freedom

11:50

or to set up even better

11:53

set up a ritual where it

11:55

turns on automatically or you turn

11:57

it on before hunkering down on

11:59

something important. That takes 30 seconds,

12:01

but you get back so much

12:03

more attention, especially in a distracting

12:06

time. meditation, I would say, falls

12:08

into that category, which sounds hippie-dippy

12:10

on the surface, but it sharpens

12:13

our attention. It makes us less

12:15

distracted, it makes us more focused,

12:17

it makes us seek fewer novel

12:20

things in our environment. And so,

12:22

you know, having a distraction is

12:24

free-rich. There are so many different

12:27

strategies that fall into this, but

12:29

I would say like the lay

12:31

of the land for productivity advice.

12:34

I might go so far as to

12:36

say that most advice doesn't lead

12:38

us to make back time. A

12:40

lot of advice out there, and

12:42

it's kind of easy to spot,

12:44

really, because it's not rooted

12:47

in research. It's not rooted

12:49

in experimentation, which isn't research,

12:52

but is better than nothing

12:54

at all. It's often rooted

12:57

in like some consultants system

12:59

that has a lot of steps.

13:01

Another thing that I put. in

13:04

this category of like bad

13:06

productivity advice are like apps that

13:08

are really complicated or like cumbersome.

13:10

Or also like planners that over

13:12

promise like how they can revolutionize

13:14

your life like there are so

13:16

many planners out there that are

13:19

supposed to be like and they

13:21

have so many steps for every

13:23

day like all these things you need to

13:25

do and like yeah I'm sure some people

13:27

love those and get a lot out of

13:29

it. But I also think like if there

13:31

are a hundred steps for you to just

13:33

like plan out your day, like that's probably

13:36

sucking a lot of your time away.

13:38

Like I, and I'm sure for some

13:40

people that would be really helpful, but

13:42

for me, like the most useful advice

13:44

or like productivity, the most

13:47

useful productivity guide I guess is

13:49

like what can eliminate all of the

13:51

steps between me and like getting to

13:53

work. And and so I think. And

13:55

that's where I think time blocking for me

13:57

is really useful, like the week before my...

14:00

usually Friday afternoon or Saturday because I often work

14:02

at like one or two days of the

14:04

weekend, I will like the end of the weekend

14:06

or the end of the week, I will

14:08

plan out the following week and make sure I

14:10

block out time for things, which means that

14:12

as soon as I get to my desk, I

14:14

just get to work. Like there's nothing, I

14:16

don't have to plan anything, I don't have to

14:18

figure anything out. Like I have my plan.

14:20

And a previous me thought like my priorities were,

14:22

so whatever feels urgent in the moment kind

14:24

of fades away. And so I find like having

14:26

as little between me and just getting to

14:29

work is useful. And so I think if

14:31

you adding so many layers between

14:33

you and getting to work. Complexity,

14:35

abstraction. Yeah, I think

14:37

when I read all, so there's a lot

14:39

of books out there by, I love

14:41

reading books by authors like fiction authors who

14:44

talk about how to be productive. And

14:46

a lot of them are like, just

14:48

get to work. Just write. I think I'm not

14:50

a big Nora Roberts fan, but I think there

14:52

was a quote by her that's something to the

14:54

effect of like the most effective way of writing

14:56

books is just like getting your butt

14:58

in a seat and writing for eight hours

15:00

until it's done. And like Stephen King

15:03

has the same idea. And like those are

15:05

two of the most prolific authors of

15:07

our time, right? Like even if you're not

15:09

a horror or a romance fan, like

15:11

you've heard those names because they write so

15:13

much, right? And not that they're like

15:15

the gurus of productivity, but I like that

15:17

this sentiment where like, if you have

15:19

crazy complicated systems to just getting to

15:21

work, maybe that's helpful for you. But I

15:23

think in reality, like the most effective productivity

15:25

advice is like stop getting in your own

15:27

way, sit down and get the things you

15:29

need to get done. Yeah. Yeah. And

15:32

have a deadline. However you

15:34

can possibly get a deadline. It's

15:36

wild how little productivity advice

15:38

we need when we feel a

15:40

deadline in our bones. Yeah.

15:42

And that's where things like having an accountability group

15:44

can be really useful. Which is a deadline.

15:46

Yeah. It gives yourself a deadline. So like I

15:48

have a group that I meet with every

15:50

week. We are friendly with each other. So we like have

15:52

a couple of minutes to chitch out, which is nice.

15:54

But we also, when we say like, what are you

15:56

doing this week? Yeah. And I hate coming to that

15:58

meeting and saying like, oh, I didn't get... my stuff

16:00

done this week. So it really forces me to

16:02

like motivate myself and get to work and

16:04

just get those things done. And time blocking

16:06

is a deadline, right? You decide

16:08

when you're working on it. You give

16:11

yourself that one hour, two hour

16:13

deadline to work on that thing. The

16:15

rule of three, that's a deadline.

16:17

You're gonna get that thing done by

16:19

the end of the day, hopefully,

16:21

not always, but usually and hopefully. Intention,

16:26

it's a deadline, right? You decide

16:28

what you're going to do before

16:30

you do it. And so you give

16:32

yourself just a container in which

16:34

you will complete that thing by the

16:36

end of that point of time,

16:38

that's a deadline. It's wild. And so

16:41

a deadline is almost like the

16:43

flip side of intention if they're like

16:45

two sides of the same coin,

16:47

right? Intention leads to a deadline, which

16:49

leads you to get stuff done,

16:51

which is why I think so much

16:54

of the good advice falls into

16:56

that category. But it is wild and

16:58

this great Reddit post, I think

17:00

people should honestly read this. You

17:02

asked like, when I shared this

17:04

post, you said, did you write

17:07

this? But the end of it,

17:09

the guy said, his name is

17:11

Ebo. I was messaging him after

17:13

and she's telling him how much

17:15

I loved it. He

17:18

writes, you know what made our parents

17:20

productive? They just sat down and did

17:22

the work. They didn't need an app

17:24

to tell them to drink water or

17:26

take up speaking of drinking water

17:28

or take a break. They had

17:31

a pen, paper and to do.

17:33

You don't need a better system.

17:35

You need to sit your down

17:37

and work. I think a system

17:39

is helpful in so far as

17:41

it leads us to make back

17:43

time, but then

17:46

you've reached the point of diminishing returns.

17:48

Yeah, I think these guys,

17:51

I think, and I

17:53

don't want to, because we've

17:55

talked a lot about

17:57

like how to make tasks

17:59

less immersive. So I

18:02

think this is easier said

18:04

than done when something's

18:06

like really interesting, right? engaging. And

18:08

if you're trying to do something that really sucks,

18:10

like I will say, I love teaching, but grading

18:12

can be tiresome and cumbersome. And so that's like

18:15

one thing I know I will always procrastinate. And

18:17

so having a little system around grading for me

18:19

is helpful. Like knowing that so now I usually

18:21

cup like pair, I will save books. for when

18:23

I am grading and I will say like,

18:26

okay, I'll get through five essays and then

18:28

I'll read a chapter of this book. Or

18:30

I will pair it with like albums that

18:32

I have come out that I'm really interested

18:35

in listening to and I will save them

18:37

for when I'm grading something that is I

18:39

know tedious because it gives me a little

18:42

bit of a report. So like I think

18:44

this like just sit down and do the

18:46

work. Easier said when it's like a little

18:48

more engaging. So I think where productivity advice

18:51

can also be more useful is on those

18:53

like more aversive tasks where it

18:55

is a little more like there

18:57

you feel that like resistance a

18:59

little more. The stuff we

19:01

tend to procrastinate on. Yes. Oh,

19:04

full circle moment. Nice. Hence the course.

19:06

Hey. No deep dive. Deep dive. Which

19:08

is kind of a course. That's what

19:10

I'm calling it, a deep dive. But

19:12

yeah, if you have a deadline and

19:14

something that's just super important to do

19:16

that you're really into, you probably

19:18

don't need any productivity advice

19:21

whatsoever. Yeah. You can just do the thing.

19:23

Right? It's like, if you want to eat

19:25

a chocolate bar, like do you really need

19:27

a deadline, a system around that? If you

19:30

want to do something, you'll get it done.

19:32

If it's important to you, you'll get it

19:34

done. But it's when you don't have a

19:36

deadline when something's something's like. kind of

19:38

a middling level of importance. You kind

19:41

of have to do it. That's when

19:43

this stuff is helpful. But do always

19:45

keep in mind with this stuff. Like

19:47

you really really have to drop a

19:49

lot of the productivity advice out there.

19:52

This stuff that isn't working for you.

19:54

What works for you might not work

19:56

for this guy on Reddit as well

19:58

or us, you know. We might have

20:00

bashed something to, maybe you love your

20:02

tickler file. Or your really complicated

20:05

journals. Some people love those

20:07

things. And this is also to say,

20:09

there's nothing wrong with tinkering. Yeah, 100%.

20:11

I think a lot of art, we've

20:14

spent 142 episodes talking about, or 44,

20:16

whatever we're on, talking about all the

20:18

things you should try and like

20:20

experiment with. Well, there's a lot

20:23

of themes that run through this

20:25

here pod, but home automation kind

20:27

of comes to mind too. Where,

20:29

you know, episode number 142, smart

20:32

home shenanigans. I don't know necessarily

20:34

if a lot of that stuff

20:36

makes us back time. It definitely

20:39

makes life more convenient. And there

20:41

is a small kind of surface

20:43

area with home automation stuff that

20:45

you need to find. That's actually

20:48

helpful. That's actually useful. A lot

20:50

of it isn't though. A lot

20:52

of it is the tinkering of

20:54

it, where you know, you play

20:56

around with things, you get all

20:58

techie about it, you get a

21:00

home assistant, installation on your raspberry

21:02

pie, and then you connect hardwire

21:04

that in. And it's really fun.

21:06

But nobody needs to do this

21:08

stuff. It's for the tankers when

21:11

you get to this kind of

21:13

advanced level. And if you get

21:15

to that level of productivity and

21:17

you love it, don't let somebody

21:20

tell you that you shouldn't love

21:22

it. Even if it's maybe you're

21:24

past that point of diminishing marginal

21:26

returns on your time, at least...

21:28

past that point, you will have

21:31

also gotten the great returns on

21:33

your time from the great productivity

21:35

advice out there. But do keep

21:37

in mind that that point

21:40

exists with productivity advice. Do

21:42

mind that you're tinkering rather

21:44

than actually making back time

21:46

and make sure you're comfortable

21:48

with that trade-off. But it

21:51

really does all come back

21:53

to that deliberateness, that intentionality

21:55

at the end of the day. Nice. One

21:57

thing that also we didn't really dive

21:59

into is... the idea of inbox zero. So

22:01

I know we're coming up at the

22:03

end of time. So maybe the next

22:06

episode. We're at 22 minutes, but

22:08

that could be another episode

22:10

because this is one of

22:12

those things that people got to

22:14

get to inbox zero. And I'm like,

22:16

why? So I think that would be

22:18

another good deep dive in not as

22:21

your course, but as something to

22:23

dive into more deeply on this

22:25

podcast. An inbox zero course

22:27

would be very easy to make.

22:30

is done. Oh, preview for

22:32

the next episode. That

22:34

can be the title.

22:36

Perfect. All right. See y'all

22:38

next a couple weeks? Oh

22:41

yes. Yes, we hope you

22:43

have a wonderful couple of

22:45

weeks. We'll see you in

22:48

a couple Tuesdays. Bye.