0:00

Lawyers for Mahmoud Khalil

0:02

faced a judge in

0:04

a federal courtroom in

0:06

Manhattan today while outside,

0:08

protesters demanded his

0:10

release. Kaleel is a

0:13

green card holder who was detained

0:15

by ICE over the weekend. The

0:17

Trump administration has lobed some serious

0:19

accusations at him. Mahmoud Kaleel was

0:21

an individual who was given the

0:23

privilege of coming to this country

0:26

to study at one of our

0:28

nation's finest universities and colleges, and

0:30

he took advantage of that opportunity,

0:32

of that privilege, by citing with

0:34

terrorists, Hamas terrorists who have killed

0:36

innocent men, women, women, and children,

0:39

but hasn't backed them up with

0:41

any evidence. The attempted deportation has

0:43

created some unlikely allies here,

0:45

including conservative, pundit, Ann Coulter,

0:48

who tweeted. There's almost no

0:50

one. I don't want to

0:53

deport. But unless they've committed

0:55

a crime, isn't this a

0:57

violation of the First Amendment?

1:00

On today explained, can the

1:02

Trump administration kick out of the country

1:04

a man who is charged with no

1:06

crime and who is here

1:08

legally? Coming up. Food security,

1:11

energy resilience, the digital divide,

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Explained. My name is Gabby Del Baye.

2:20

I'm a policy reporter at the

2:23

verge where I cover immigration, privacy,

2:25

and the tech right. Gabby, what

2:27

happened to Mahmoud Scalia last weekend?

2:30

So on Saturday night, he was

2:32

arrested by officers from Immigration and

2:34

Customs Enforcement's Homeland Security Investigations Division

2:37

in his apartment. When the officers

2:39

asked him to identify himself, they

2:41

initially said that his student visa

2:44

had been revoked. I believe at

2:46

that point. he and his wife

2:48

had called his attorney and his

2:50

wife and his attorney were both saying he's

2:53

not here on a student visa, he has

2:55

a green card, his wife who's eight

2:57

months pregnant, got the green card

2:59

and showed it to the HSI officers,

3:01

that's the division of ICE that handles

3:04

all night security, and the officer said,

3:06

well the green card has been revoked

3:08

too, which to be clear, ICE doesn't have

3:11

the authority to revoke a green card,

3:13

but... They arrested him. They took him

3:15

first, I believe, to a detention center

3:17

in New York, then transferred him to

3:19

a different detention center in New Jersey

3:21

when his wife went to visit him there

3:24

on Sunday. She was told that he wasn't

3:26

there. And for a while, his wife and

3:28

his attorney didn't know where he

3:30

was until it was revealed that

3:32

he had been transferred to a

3:34

different ICE detention facility in rural

3:36

Louisiana. And so while he was still

3:38

detained in New York City, 440 a.m.

3:40

on Sunday, his attorney filed a habeas

3:43

petition with the Southern District of New

3:45

York. So this was before any of

3:47

the transfers happened. And a federal judge

3:49

on Monday ordered that he not be

3:51

deported for now and set a court

3:53

hearing for today. Who is this guy? Mahmoud

3:56

Kale is a recent graduate

3:58

of Columbia University's School.

4:00

international and public affairs

4:03

and a very prominent

4:05

pro-Palestinian activist on

4:07

campus. So starting

4:10

in late 2023 Columbia

4:12

University had a series of

4:14

protests on campus. where student

4:16

activists were trying to get

4:19

the university to divest from

4:21

military contractors and from certain

4:23

companies that were based in

4:25

our due business with the

4:27

Israeli government. We demand divestment.

4:29

We will not be moved

4:32

on let by force. And

4:34

those protests kind of culminated

4:36

in the spring of 2024

4:38

with an encampment on Columbia

4:40

University's lawn that the university ended

4:43

up calling in the NYPD or

4:45

allowing the NYPD to arrest students.

4:47

The protest didn't end at the end

4:49

of the academic year and have been

4:52

ongoing. In the spring of 2024, when

4:54

the encampments had sprung up and

4:56

had been there for a while,

4:58

he actually wasn't prominently involved in the

5:00

encampments and he spoke at a press

5:02

conference where he said that he hadn't

5:04

attended a ton of protests and he

5:06

hadn't attended a ton of protests and

5:08

he hadn't been doing a ton of

5:10

interviews. He wasn't really in the public

5:12

eye because he at that point was

5:14

in the US on a student visa.

5:16

They did not participate, hearing

5:18

that I will be arrested

5:21

and ultimately deported from this

5:23

country. And this is why

5:25

a lot of the Palestinian

5:27

students here, they feel very

5:29

uncomfortable, very, very comfortable participating

5:31

and protesting that inside of

5:33

their people. That's why we

5:36

are very grateful for everyone

5:38

on campus for protesting on

5:40

our aid. But

5:43

that wasn't to say he wasn't involved

5:45

with this movement. He was one of

5:47

the students involved with negotiating with the

5:49

administration and trying to push the administration

5:52

to divest while other students were doing

5:54

like the encampment the the more like

5:56

on the ground stuff. He was like

5:58

in these meetings with the administration.

6:01

What will happen in court? Has he

6:03

been charged with anything? This is kind

6:05

of a tricky thing. The judge that

6:07

set that hearing is a federal judge

6:09

in the Southern District of New York,

6:11

and this is a hearing basically just

6:13

requesting his release from immigration custody. That

6:15

isn't going to affect the outcome of

6:17

his immigration case, because ultimately an immigration

6:19

judge is the one who decides whether

6:22

to order him deported it or not.

6:24

These are two different courts, different jurisdictions,

6:26

so his hearing today was about whether

6:28

he should remain in ice custody or

6:30

be let out, but it's not about

6:32

whether he's going to be deported. When

6:34

asked to explain this, what has the

6:36

Trump administration said? So a White House

6:38

official told the free press that he

6:41

has not been charged with a crime,

6:43

there's no allegation that he's broken the

6:45

law, but that he poses a threat

6:47

to the foreign policy and national security

6:50

interests of the United States. Under the

6:52

Immigration and Nationality Act, the Secretary of

6:54

State has the right to revoke a

6:56

green card or a visa for individuals

6:59

who serve or adversarial to the foreign

7:01

policy and national security interests of the

7:03

United States of America. The official White

7:06

House Instagram and Twitter accounts posted this

7:08

picture of him saying Shalom Ahmad and

7:10

Trump himself has said there will

7:12

be more. In a post-untruth social,

7:14

Trump called him a radical foreign

7:16

pro-Hemos student and said, this is

7:18

the first arrest of many to come.

7:21

What rights does Mahmoud Khalil have as

7:23

a green cardholder in the US? So in

7:25

most cases, people in deportation proceedings

7:27

have the right to a hearing

7:30

before an immigration judge. So

7:32

despite what the government is saying, despite

7:34

what the White House is saying, he

7:37

cannot just be deported today or tomorrow

7:39

or this week. He has to go

7:41

before an immigration judge and only

7:43

an immigration judge can decide whether

7:45

Mahmoud will be deported. And what case

7:47

would the Trump administration have to

7:49

make in order to get him

7:51

deported? Like how does this generally

7:54

work? It works differently depending

7:56

on what the grounds for

7:58

deportability are. I'm going

8:00

to give you a kind of

8:02

unrelated example. Like if you were

8:04

a green card holder and he

8:07

had been charged with certain crimes,

8:09

crimes including what is called crimes

8:11

of moral turpitude or aggravated felonies,

8:13

which are not all felonies, it's

8:15

kind of a misnomer, that could

8:17

then trigger deportation proceedings. Or if

8:20

he were an undocumented immigrant who

8:22

was in the United States without

8:24

legal authorization, that could trigger deportation

8:26

proceedings. This is a really... Unusual

8:28

case. So because of the deportability

8:30

as being argued on this foreign policy

8:33

ground, I believe the administration is going

8:35

to have to prove that his activities

8:37

in the United States are in some

8:39

way a threat to national security or

8:41

to the US's foreign policy interests. The

8:43

question is what they're going to point

8:46

to to prove that. Like, is it

8:48

going to be his involvement in campus

8:50

protests? And if so, is there then

8:52

a First Amendment counter argument? Like, will

8:54

his attorney be able to say... He

8:57

was not doing anything dangerous or anything

8:59

threatening to national security. He was exercising

9:01

his First Amendment rights. So will the

9:03

administration then argue that he was doing something

9:05

beyond speech is what we should be looking

9:08

out for. As far as I know, he

9:10

is not accused of any acts of violence,

9:12

like the occupations, any of that. In fact,

9:14

I emailed the NYPD asking if he had

9:16

any kind of like charges or if he

9:18

had been arrested in connection with any of

9:21

those events, and I didn't receive a response,

9:23

but when I was covering these protestsasts There

9:25

was no mention of him as one of

9:27

the people who had been arrested. There

9:29

were many students involved in these

9:32

protests on college campuses and many students

9:34

all across the country. Do we know

9:36

why this one student was singled out?

9:38

I think there are a few

9:40

different reasons why he was singled out.

9:43

One of them is that he's an

9:45

easier target than a lot of other

9:47

students. His name is out there, his

9:49

information is out there, the government knows

9:51

that he's not a U.S. citizen. There

9:53

was a report in the forward that

9:55

some pro-Israel activists had met

9:57

with members of Congress, including Ted

9:59

Cruz. John Federman and had personally

10:01

named Mahmoud as like someone that

10:04

the government should be looking at.

10:06

And there are also a number

10:08

of organizations that both before and

10:10

since Trump's reelection have kind of

10:12

dedicated themselves to naming and

10:15

shaming what they say are

10:17

students on campus who are

10:19

either promoting anti-Semitism or in

10:21

some cases promoting terrorism. One

10:23

of these organizations, Canary Mission,

10:26

makes these kind of dossiers

10:28

of pro- Palestine activists on

10:30

college campuses across America. Canary

10:32

mission simple interface allows you

10:34

to easily explore profiles of

10:36

radical individuals and organizations. It

10:38

is your duty to ensure

10:40

that today's radicals are not

10:43

tomorrow's employees. Another more recent

10:45

one is the Heritage Foundation's

10:47

Project Esther, which has kind

10:49

of tried to... weaponize the

10:51

canary mission model to encourage

10:53

retaliation against these students. Students

10:55

that are engaged in pro-terrorist

10:57

activities should be deported. The

10:59

United States federal government itself

11:02

should embark on a mission

11:04

to deport such visiting students

11:06

that are expressing support for

11:08

Hamas and other terrorist entities.

11:10

And then there's another group, Betar,

11:12

which claims it made... lists of

11:14

students who are in the US

11:16

on visas or otherwise non-citizens, and

11:18

also claims that it showed that

11:20

list to immigration authorities and has

11:22

encouraged that these students be arrested

11:24

and removed from the country. President

11:27

Trump said on truth social

11:29

the following, we know there are

11:31

more students at Columbia and

11:33

other universities across the country

11:35

who have engaged in pro-terrorist anti-Semitic

11:38

anti-American activity and the Trump

11:40

administration will not tolerate it. It

11:42

sounds like a threat there will

11:44

be more of this. Should

11:46

we expect more of this?

11:48

Just days before Mahmoud was arrested,

11:51

Axie is reported that the

11:53

State Department under Makarubia was

11:55

using AI to identify students who

11:57

were in the US on visas who

11:59

had been arrested at pro-Palestinian accent

12:02

on campus or off-campus or

12:04

who had posted like anti-Israel

12:06

content on social media. It claimed

12:08

that there were no visas that were

12:10

revoked under the Biden administration which was

12:13

proof that they were not taking this

12:15

seriously and that this new administration would

12:17

be taken this seriously. Reuters and the

12:19

AP have also reported that ICE has

12:22

been looking for at least one other

12:24

student on campus. Let me ask you

12:26

lastly. What does this tell us

12:28

about how President Trump and his

12:31

administration are thinking about deportations, about

12:33

how to do them, about how

12:36

to utilize them, about who to

12:38

target for deportation? So when Trump

12:40

was on the campaign trail, he

12:43

promised mass deportations. And since then,

12:45

you know, we have seen an

12:48

increase in immigration enforcement, but despite

12:50

what Trump says, despite what other

12:52

White House officials say, You can't just

12:55

instantly deport most non-citizens.

12:57

Because that process is

12:59

often slow and bureaucratic, the

13:01

Trump administration is kind of relying

13:03

on these shop-and-all tactics, you

13:05

know, sending people to Guantanamo,

13:07

high-profile arrested activists, sending migrants

13:10

to Panama, these videos of

13:12

Christie-Nol, wearing bulletproof vests to

13:14

arrest migrants in New York

13:16

City, they're kind of relying

13:18

on the public not realizing

13:21

that an immigration arrest an

13:23

immigration arrest. While it may

13:25

be the first step in

13:27

a deportation, there's still a

13:30

process that they have

13:32

to adhere to. That

13:34

was the verges Gabby

13:36

Del Valle. Coming up,

13:38

President Trump promised

13:41

mass deportations, not

13:43

just high-profile ones.

13:46

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Hiring, indeed, is what

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you need. You're listening to

17:16

Today Explained. My full

17:18

name is Colleen Putsal Kavanaugh,

17:21

and I'm an associate

17:23

policy analyst at the

17:26

Migration Policy Institute. It's

17:28

been just under two months

17:30

Colleen since President Trump took

17:32

office. On the campaign trail

17:34

he promised mass deportations. We

17:36

heard this again and again and

17:39

again. We will use all

17:41

necessary state, local, federal, and

17:43

military resources to carry out

17:45

the largest domestic deportation operation

17:48

in American history. Got to

17:50

do it. How is he doing with

17:52

that campaign promise? Right now, we

17:54

don't have the current numbers of

17:56

deportations from the government, but we

17:58

do know that the Trump administration

18:01

is quite frustrated with where

18:03

deportations are at. We have some

18:05

inferences that show that the deportations

18:07

have not kept pace with what

18:09

the Trump administration had hoped. According

18:11

to three sources familiar with discussions

18:14

at Immigration and Customs Enforcement, ICE

18:16

and at the White House, President

18:18

Trump has said to be angry

18:20

that more people aren't being deported. It

18:22

is too low and he's angry over the

18:24

ice. numbers. Borders are Tom Homan. We

18:27

have heard that he is unhappy

18:29

and made his unhappiness known to

18:31

the men and women of eyes

18:33

that they want to get arrest

18:35

and deportations of migrants. higher. It's

18:37

a type of infrastructure that can't

18:39

be built overnight and so right

18:41

now the deportations are just not

18:43

keeping pace with what the Trump

18:45

administration had hoped to reach that

18:47

goal of one million per year.

18:49

All illegal entry will immediately be

18:52

halted and we will begin the

18:54

process of returning millions and millions

18:56

of criminal aliens back to the

18:59

places from which they came. Now

19:04

in the meantime immigration and customs enforcement

19:06

or ICE is more transparent perhaps

19:08

than I think a lot of

19:10

people realize they do have a

19:12

color-coded spreadsheet online. It shows us

19:15

all of the detention data from

19:17

this year. What does that spreadsheet

19:19

tell us about detentions if not

19:21

deportations since Donald Trump took office?

19:23

These spreadsheets from ICE offer us

19:25

really concrete information about ICE detention and

19:28

then they also allow us to make

19:30

some really great inferences into what might

19:32

be happening with deportations, especially when we

19:34

don't have that data. And so since

19:36

Trump took office, we can see that

19:39

the average number of people in detention

19:41

has gone up. So in December, that

19:43

last full month of the Biden administration,

19:45

there are about 39,000 people in detention.

19:47

And then in February, the first full

19:49

month of the Trump administration, there are

19:52

about 42,500. So a small increase, but

19:54

an increase nonetheless. And then we can also

19:56

see that more of the people who are

19:58

in ICE detention right now... are coming

20:00

from ICE arrests rather than

20:02

arrests conducted by Customs and

20:04

Border Protection, which would typically

20:06

be those arrested on the

20:08

border. So under this administration, we

20:10

are seeing an increase in

20:12

arrests. And so the interior

20:15

arrests that are happening by

20:17

ICE are higher than under

20:19

the Biden administration. What's much

20:21

different about this administration versus

20:23

the Biden administration and when

20:25

Biden came into office is

20:27

that the border looked a

20:29

lot different. President Biden taking

20:31

executive action this afternoon that

20:33

will restrict asylum processing along

20:36

the U.S.-Mexico border. President Biden announcing

20:38

new steps to tackle the crisis

20:40

at the border, expanding rules on

20:43

who will be turned back. And

20:45

under the Biden administration, the majority

20:47

of the shares of people who

20:49

were being deported were actually coming

20:51

from through the border. So it

20:54

wasn't that ice stopped. interior arrests

20:56

altogether, but it was that those

20:58

arrests were happening at a far

21:00

slower rate than they are currently.

21:02

But also, the Trump administration came

21:05

into a border that was much

21:07

slower and much less busy than

21:09

the Biden administration inherited. And so

21:11

those two differences have somewhat... skewed

21:13

the numbers in that now the

21:16

Trump administration is focusing more on

21:18

the interior, but those deportations are

21:20

a lot harder to carry out

21:22

than when people have just recently

21:25

crossed the border. So I wonder

21:27

what we should make of this

21:29

dynamic. The numbers of deportations are

21:32

falling short of what Trump promised,

21:34

but his administration is making a

21:36

lot of news with these very

21:38

high profile cases. A student connected

21:41

to pro-Palestinian protests last year has

21:43

been detained by ICE. Striking scenes

21:45

from the windows of this Panama

21:47

Hotel. Confide inside, migrant men, women,

21:50

and children deported from the U.S.

21:52

by the Trump administration. We

21:54

have 30,000 beds in Guantanamo

21:56

to detain the worst criminal

21:59

illegal alien. threatening the American

22:01

people. Some of them are so

22:03

bad we don't even trust the

22:05

countries to hold them. What do

22:07

you think we should take from

22:09

that? So having this large kind

22:12

of public relations campaign around the

22:14

arrests that are happening, the deportations

22:16

that are being carried out, the

22:18

previous use of military planes for

22:20

example. We shot this video from

22:22

a dirt ridge outside Fort Bliss

22:24

in El Paso, Texas. We could

22:27

see about... 80 men, women, and

22:29

children, recent arrivals in the U.S.,

22:31

stepping off buses and stepping on

22:33

to military transport jets. I'm sending

22:35

military to the border. Thousands of

22:37

troops have been deployed to the

22:39

border with Mexico. These are all

22:42

part of a larger... campaign to

22:44

basically meet two critical needs of

22:46

the Trump administration to one, show

22:48

the base of people that are

22:50

supportive of this, that they are

22:52

doing what they promise. They are

22:54

intending to increase arrests and increase

22:57

deportations. Whether or not the numbers

22:59

are adding up, the intent is

23:01

there. One of the very first

23:03

actions by the Trump administration was

23:05

to risk in something called the

23:07

Sensitive Locations memo, which did not

23:09

allow ICE to go into schools.

23:12

The Department of Homeland Security tossed

23:14

out a policy that limited where

23:16

immigration authorities can make arrests. Now,

23:18

federal agents can detain migrants at

23:20

sensitive locations, including schools and churches.

23:22

And so it certainly created a

23:24

bit of a chilling effect. Today

23:27

federal agents detained and arrested people

23:29

in Denver and the neighboring city

23:31

of Aurora Colorado breaking down doors

23:33

and questioning people. Multiple communities across

23:35

Chicago are feeling the impacts of

23:37

what ICE is calling targeted operations.

23:39

That can mean that people just

23:42

aren't going to go to work

23:44

or they might not go to

23:46

a doctor's appointment or they might

23:48

not send their kids to school

23:50

that day. I have calls from

23:52

school teachers and parents. who are

23:54

afraid to send their children to

23:57

school, it's already scaring people. My

24:00

guess would be that the

24:02

Trump administration at some point

24:05

will start to take flack

24:07

because the number of deportations

24:09

that it promised is not

24:11

matching the reality. Are you

24:14

seeing new strategies by this

24:16

administration to kind of get

24:18

deportation numbers up? Part of

24:21

the deportation system is also

24:23

the detention system. The Trump

24:25

administration has made a lot

24:27

of efforts to essentially bend

24:30

the US government towards trying

24:32

to increase the resources across

24:34

detentions and deportation. And so

24:37

that means that they're deputizing

24:39

all different areas of the

24:41

government, including ones that had

24:43

never been working on immigration

24:46

before, but also calling agents

24:48

from Department of State, from

24:50

DEA, from US Marshals, and

24:53

asking people to be reallocated

24:55

to work on immigration enforcement.

24:57

seeing that they are targeting

24:59

certain areas that work with

25:02

immigrants. So for example, the

25:04

Trump administration has launched several

25:06

investigations into so-called sanctuary cities

25:09

which has resulted in a

25:11

litany of different lawsuits. Sanctuary

25:13

City mayors from Boston, New

25:15

York City, Denver, and Chicago

25:18

were taken to task by

25:20

House Republicans for their dangerous

25:22

policies during this contentious hearing.

25:25

immigrants in general cause all

25:27

sorts of danger and harm.

25:29

That is actually what is

25:31

undermining safety in our communities.

25:34

We're also seeing that the

25:36

Trump administration is trying to

25:38

compel states and localities to

25:41

use their own law enforcement

25:43

agencies to also carry out

25:45

immigration enforcement. So the Texas

25:47

National Guard has signed a

25:50

memorandum of understanding with DHS

25:52

so that Texas National Guard

25:54

can now kind of carry

25:56

out the function. of an

25:59

immigration enforcement officer where they

26:01

previously couldn't. So there's a

26:03

lot of different areas in

26:06

which they're trying to sort

26:08

of bend various aspects of

26:10

both the U.S. government but

26:12

also state resources all towards

26:15

this singular goal of carrying

26:17

out mass deportations. Colleen

26:29

Putzel Kavanaugh of the Migration

26:31

Policy Institute. Today's show was

26:34

produced by Avishai Artsy and

26:36

Gabrielle Burbe. Amano Elsadi is

26:39

our editor, Laura Bullard, and

26:41

Amanda Llewellyn, checked the facts,

26:43

and Patrick Boyd and Andrea

26:46

Kristen's daughter are our engineers.

26:48

I'm Noel King. It's today

26:50

explained. It's

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been reported that one in

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four people experience sensory sensitivities,

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making everyday experiences like a

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sensory sensitive individuals avoid dental

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a new documentary produced as

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sounds, and unexpected touches can

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turn routine moments into overwhelming

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challenges. Burnett Grant, for example,

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has spent their life masking

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discomfort in workplaces that don't

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accommodate neuro divergence. I've only

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they share. This is why they're advocating

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stories like Burnett... Sensory Overload

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highlights the urgent need for

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spaces, dental offices and beyond,

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that embrace sensory inclusion. Because

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true inclusion requires action with

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environments where everyone feels safe.

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Watch Sensory Overload now, streaming

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on Hulu. Support for this

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show comes from Brex. This goes

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out to all you finance folks.

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