0:00

If Hamas wanted to get the world's attention

0:02

with their attacks on Israel, they've been

0:05

wildly successful. They

0:07

got a war. The Israeli military

0:09

is amassing troops and equipment along

0:12

the border for a ground invasion that

0:14

everyone knows is coming, but few know

0:16

when it will start. They triggered an international

0:20

diplomatic crisis. U.S. Secretary

0:22

of State Antony Blinken met the Egyptian president

0:24

after visits to Israel, Jordan, the

0:26

UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, and Saudi

0:28

Arabia. They poured gasoline

0:30

on the already eternal

0:33

fire burning over this

0:36

Israel and Palestine issue. Police

0:38

in Paris fired water cannons and tear gas

0:40

into a crowded pro-Palestinian

0:41

rally here. The protests

0:44

have been banned by the interior minister who feared

0:46

such gatherings would cause public disturbances.

0:49

Practically everyone has

0:51

an opinion. On Today Explained, we're

0:53

going to do some facts. The history

0:56

of Hamas coming up on the show.

0:59

Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. At Mint Mobile, we

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1:31

You're listening to Today

1:34

Explained. The

1:41

United States and Israel and many

1:43

of their allies officially designate

1:46

Hamas as a terrorist organization.

1:49

As you may have heard in the past few days, not

1:52

everyone agrees.

1:53

In light of this new war, we wanted to

1:56

find out how Palestinians see

1:58

Hamas, so we reached out to

1:59

I am a professor

2:02

of Middle Eastern Studies at Norfolk

2:04

University in Qatar, author

2:07

of a couple of books on

2:09

the Palestinian issue, the Arab-Israeli conflicts,

2:12

and Hamas. As we so often do, we

2:14

started at the start. Hamas is,

2:17

you can think of it as the

2:19

product of a mother organization called

2:22

the Muslim Brotherhood, which is again

2:25

very famous. You can see them in Egypt,

2:27

in Jordan, in Pakistan, in

2:30

Malaysia, maybe everywhere. So this

2:32

is kind of the mother organization of Hamas.

2:35

They have a Palestinian branch.

2:37

It was called the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood,

2:40

and this was since mid-1940s. So

2:43

they would focus on mosques, religious

2:45

affairs, building social networks,

2:48

charities, and the rest of it. The

2:50

business of resistance was

2:53

left to other ideologies,

2:55

Marxists, nationalists, and others. So

2:58

Hamas was a charity organization. Well,

3:00

the mother organization of Hamas was a charity

3:02

organization, ironically speaking, until 1987.

3:07

In 1987, something big happened.

3:10

Widely spread a protest against

3:13

the Israeli occupation. The

3:15

first intifada marked the first time

3:17

Palestinians from all parts of society

3:20

began such an intense resistance. The

3:22

protests evolved from boys throwing

3:24

rocks and people marching to fighters

3:27

attacking Israeli soldiers and military

3:29

targets.

3:31

And that was kind of a very challenging

3:33

moment for the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood.

3:35

Until that moment, we didn't have something

3:37

called Hamas. So they

3:40

faced this choice. Either they refrain

3:43

from participating in the uprising, and

3:46

in this case they are going to lose their membership,

3:48

they are going to lose their faith and

3:51

their status within the Palestinian

3:53

community, or they change

3:55

their strategy and they gear up from

3:58

charity into something.

4:00

meaningful in the eyes of the Palestinian.

4:03

That is resistance. So they

4:05

reorganized themselves, reshaped

4:07

themselves under the name of Hamas. By

4:09

resistance, do you mean violent? Do

4:12

you mean terrorism? Do you mean

4:14

politics? What do you mean? The very

4:17

generic term resistance within

4:19

the Palestinian, let's say, context

4:21

and language, it means using all

4:23

means against the occupation. These

4:26

could be violent means, these could

4:28

be nonviolent means. For the Palestinians,

4:31

they say all these means are

4:33

justified under the international

4:35

law and UN kind of resolutions. They

4:38

would allow and justify using

4:40

force and military force against any occupier

4:43

in any part of the world. So this

4:45

is kind of the source of legitimacy

4:48

upon which the Palestinian resistance

4:51

is anchored.

4:54

Hamas becomes a

4:56

sort of formal resistance

4:59

movement in 1987. What

5:01

do they say their mission is? In 1988,

5:04

they published the so-called

5:06

Charter. In this charter, they

5:08

tried to kind of outline the

5:10

strategy, the main goals, aims,

5:13

perception of enemies and friends,

5:15

and the rest of it. This charter was

5:18

still kind of full of religious

5:20

connotations, language

5:24

loaded with Quranic verses, and

5:26

they have been criticized, attacked because

5:29

of that language. And even there are some

5:31

kind of anti-Semitic tones in it

5:33

and the statements. The Hamas Charter is

5:36

filled with anti-Semitic references to Jews being

5:38

behind communism, being behind World War

5:40

I, World War II. It endorses the

5:42

famous anti-Semitic conspiracy, the Protocols

5:45

of the Elders of Zion, a global

5:47

Jewish conspiracy. Later

5:49

on, two, three years after that, Hamas

5:52

became kind of more mature, let's say, in

5:54

practice and more politics. So

5:56

they started kind of to distance

5:58

themselves from their own Charter. When

6:01

we are talking about the Jews,

6:03

we are not against the religion. So

6:05

we are against the one who is occupying our

6:07

lands. We are against the one who is occupying

6:09

our cities, villages.

6:11

Who is this organization attracting?

6:15

Are they men? Are they young? Are

6:17

they old? Are they students? Are

6:19

they academics?

6:20

Who are they? All of these, all of the above.

6:23

I think it attracts two

6:26

groups of people. One, the

6:28

people who are nationalist, of course. They

6:30

want to liberate Palestine. They want to participate

6:33

in the resistance. And

6:36

the other group is the people who are religious.

6:39

And the mixture of these two produces

6:42

a new form of

6:44

individuals. These are people

6:46

who are religious, ready to sacrifice

6:49

themselves for the sake of Palestine.

6:51

Because it's a nationalist-slash-religious

6:54

idea. So one

6:56

arm of this organization that we haven't

6:58

really touched upon yet is, of course, the

7:01

one that the world is now probably most recognizing,

7:03

which is terrorism. When

7:05

does Hamas first get to be known

7:08

as an organization that

7:11

practices terrorism?

7:13

Of course, to start with, this is highly-contential

7:15

terminology, Sean. So people,

7:17

the Palestinians would frown

7:20

upon you when you use this term. I

7:23

know this is kind of the terminology used

7:26

in the US, in Europe, and elsewhere.

7:29

But for the Palestinians, Hamas and

7:31

other Palestinian groups are the freedom fighters. Not

7:35

necessarily everybody agrees on every single

7:37

act that Hamas does. But by

7:39

and large, it is considered as a nationalist

7:42

liberationist kind

7:43

of group. But anyway, for the

7:45

outside, for Israel to start with, Hamas

7:48

was designated as a terrorist organization

7:50

as all other Palestinian factions.

7:54

And Hamas continued to be

7:56

seen as so until this very moment.

7:59

difference, however, that took place. And

8:02

this takes us in our discussion to another

8:04

kind of maybe milestone that took

8:06

place in 1993.

8:10

The children of Abraham,

8:12

the descendants of Isaac and Ishmael

8:15

have embarked together on a bold journey.

8:18

Together, today, with

8:20

all our hearts and all our souls,

8:23

we bid them Salaam.

8:26

Salaam. Peace.

8:30

The official spokesperson

8:32

of the Palestinians, the Palestine Liberation

8:35

Organization, signed Oslo

8:37

Accords with Israel. We who have

8:39

fought against you, the

8:41

Palestinians, we

8:44

say to you today, in

8:46

a loud and clear voice,

8:49

enough of blood and

8:52

tears. The PLO is the

8:54

umbrella of all Palestinian

8:57

factions, excluding Hamas. So

8:59

the PLO

9:00

agreed on Oslo Accords, saying

9:03

our aspirations as Palestinian people

9:06

could be achieved through peace talks.

9:09

We recognize Israel. Yes, we

9:11

make a huge compromise.

9:14

That is 78 percent of

9:16

the historic land of Palestine from a Palestinian

9:19

perspective, and we accept only

9:22

22 percent of the land to have a Palestinian

9:24

state run out. That was the

9:26

promise and the premise of

9:29

us. You're talking about the

9:30

two-state solution. Yes. The

9:33

two men making these promises on behalf

9:35

of their peoples were jointly awarded the Nobel

9:37

Prize for Peace. Arafat was held

9:39

as a hero in Gaza after 27 years in exile, at least

9:43

by a part of the Palestinians. Hamas

9:46

says, no, the entire land

9:48

is for us, from the Mediterranean

9:50

Sea to Jordan River. How

9:54

does Hamas proceed at this point? You've

9:56

got the Oslo Accords. You've got this two-state

9:58

solution. They're not

9:59

happy with the agreement. How do they go

10:02

forward? Hamas for a while,

10:04

for a few years in fact, after the after

10:07

signing Oslo agreement, became somehow

10:09

confused, slightly disorientated,

10:12

and the popularity that Oslo accords

10:15

and diyas al-Rabafat gained because

10:17

of the high hopes within the

10:19

Palestinians at that time. So you have Hamas

10:22

somehow marginalized. Now

10:24

this kind of lasted maybe until 1995, 96. Before

10:29

that we have

10:29

a very infamous incident. On

10:32

the 25th of February 1994, an American-Israeli far-right

10:35

settler Baruch Goldstein entered the mosque

10:37

during prayers and started shooting. He

10:40

killed 29 worshippers and wounded

10:42

nearly 200. And then Hamas

10:44

vowed to retaliate. And

10:47

they did retaliate using

10:50

a new strategy, new tactic, that

10:52

is the suicide bomber. The

10:55

Islamic group Hamas took responsibility for

10:57

the attack and said the intention was to kill

10:59

the Israeli

10:59

air force personnel aboard the bus.

11:02

So Hamas is conducting terrorist attacks,

11:04

but they're not in power. They're political outsiders.

11:07

Yeah, this is how it was seen in the eyes

11:09

of Israel and the US. However,

11:13

by 1999, the Palestinians

11:15

should have a Palestinian state, according to Oslo

11:18

accords. And of course it didn't

11:20

happen. And Hamas becomes stronger

11:22

and stronger, saying, we told

11:24

you that his own peace talks are leading

11:27

to nowhere. And since then, the

11:29

Palestinian Authority and the IDF also became

11:32

undermined. And

11:35

here comes kind of a very interesting story. 2003, George

11:39

W. Bush led the

11:41

so-called Gore-Untarol against

11:43

countries and organizations

11:46

designated as terrorists. And that

11:49

list included Hamas. Our

11:51

war on terror begins

11:53

with Al Qaeda, but

11:56

it does not end there.

11:58

It will not end.

11:59

until every terrorist group of global

12:02

reach has been found,

12:04

stopped, and

12:07

defeated him. Hamas

12:09

was, of course, you know, extremely

12:12

angry. We are not without a liberation movement.

12:15

Leading to that year, 2006, to circumvent

12:18

that campaign, they

12:21

decided to participate in the Palestinian

12:24

elections. The Islamic Hamas

12:26

party, winning a majority of seats

12:28

in the Palestinian Legislative Council.

12:31

Winning the elections was not kind of the goal. So

12:34

that was an ironic

12:36

case of a political party running

12:38

for elections,

12:39

hoping not to win them.

12:41

However, they won the

12:43

elections. And the Palestinians said, okay, you

12:46

have been a critic. So I think the Palestinian Authority

12:48

for many years, now here you go. Do

12:50

much better than them, if you tell. You are

12:53

on the show.

12:58

Hamas plus political power,

13:01

when we're back on Today Explained.

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14:19

Today explained when we were last with

14:21

you, Hamas had just kind of unexpectedly

14:24

won an election. Israel, of course,

14:26

was not happy. This organization

14:29

that had been terrorizing them was now

14:31

in charge of Gaza. So Israel

14:34

blockades Gaza.

14:35

Tonight, special correspondent Fred de Sam

14:38

Lazaro reports from the Gaza Strip,

14:40

a region the United Nations predicts will be

14:42

uninhabitable by next year.

14:44

The United Nations says just 10%

14:47

of Gaza's 2 million people have

14:49

access to safe drinking water. Along

14:52

the beach each day, young men drag in

14:54

a meager catch, food is scarce,

14:56

they said. Palestinians and aid workers

14:58

say that the lack of food, medicine, fuel,

15:01

and basic supplies has made the situation

15:03

in the Gaza Strip, quote, catastrophic.

15:05

We asked Professor Khalid Al-Roub

15:08

how Hamas responded. A

15:09

number of things. Militarily speaking, they

15:12

relied on smuggling

15:14

weapons in terms of

15:17

the basics for living

15:19

for the Gazans in the region.

15:22

Life was designed

15:24

to be, as

15:26

it was put by one Israeli

15:29

leader, I think, we are going to starve

15:31

them, but not letting them die.

15:34

So we keep them kind of struggling.

15:36

We keep them all the time trying

15:38

to keep their survival.

15:41

And in this case, they consumed their energy

15:44

in this process. That was the situation

15:47

of Gaza's since 2007.

15:49

When Hamas gains political power, do

15:52

the suicide bombings stop? Do these

15:54

sort of terrorist style

15:57

tactics against Israel stop?

15:59

Yes, in 2005, Hamas,

16:02

that is one year before the elections, Hamas

16:05

decided to stop all these kind

16:07

of tactics, especially the suicide

16:10

attacks. And they decided to

16:13

do their utmost effort to join

16:15

the PLO. And a third main

16:17

decision was to take part in the elections.

16:20

When they became in power, all these

16:22

kind of measures became behind their back,

16:26

rehabilitating themselves to the

16:28

new phase,

16:30

if you like, to the political phase of

16:32

Hamas, that we are kind of ready to be part

16:34

of the parliament, to be part of

16:36

the political process, and so on and so forth.

16:39

How long does that last? Two years only, 2005,

16:41

2006, into 2007, when the split took place between

16:43

Fatah and Hamas in 2007.

16:51

And then Israel started kind of

16:54

applying more pressure

16:56

on Hamas and the Gaza Strip. And

16:58

a year after that, 2008, the

17:01

first war on Gaza under

17:03

the rule of Hamas was launched. Israel

17:05

continues to bomb the territory for a third

17:08

consecutive day, hitting

17:10

targets across the area overnight

17:12

and into

17:13

Monday. And how

17:15

does that war resolve? Those were

17:17

not kind of impressively great

17:20

in the eyes of the Palestinians, but they

17:22

started the business of rockets, launching

17:25

rockets. Later on in the years, they

17:27

started manufacturing them and

17:30

building more expertise and the skills in

17:33

making these rockets more kind of

17:35

effective. On the Palestinian civilian

17:38

side, however, the

17:39

coast was very, very high. And

17:42

then the blockade started to tighten, not

17:44

only on Hamas, but also on the

17:46

entire area. As the death toll

17:49

crosses a grim mark, more

17:51

than 1,000 Palestinians killed in

17:54

less than three weeks of Israeli attack.

17:57

Two, three years after that, 2012, there was another war

18:00

and then 2014 another war.

18:03

More than a thousand Palestinians and more

18:05

than 40 Israelis have been killed

18:07

since the conflict began three weeks ago.

18:09

So we get into a cycle where

18:11

Israel and Hamas are just

18:14

going to war every few years.

18:16

It obviously feels like we're in another

18:18

round of that cycle right now.

18:21

How does Hamas stay in power for

18:23

so long? They're elected into office in 2006. It's

18:27

now 2023. Are they

18:29

that popular? There

18:30

are no elections in the Palestinian

18:33

scene until now. Neither presidential

18:36

elections nor legislative elections.

18:42

So for some people would say Hamas's

18:44

role is illegitimate because it is not elected.

18:47

The reason behind this is that Israel

18:50

says they wouldn't allow elections in

18:52

East Jerusalem.

18:54

For these legislative elections, as in the

18:56

past, Israelis refused access to the

18:58

city for Palestinian election officials,

19:00

candidates, and campaigns and

19:03

allowed only a small number of Palestinian residents

19:05

to participate with their votes cast

19:07

as absentee ballots in Israeli post office.

19:10

East Jerusalem is considered as part

19:13

of the occupied territories

19:15

in 1967. The Palestinians say

19:19

this is part of the future Palestinian

19:21

state. Israel says no, this

19:23

is part of unified Jerusalem. We

19:25

are not going to allow any elections

19:28

in this Jerusalem. And many

19:30

Palestinians live there, of course, the majority. And

19:33

so because of this, there

19:35

are no elections. It's

19:40

kind of very difficult to

19:42

say how popular they are in

19:44

the Gaza Strip. Unemployment, for example,

19:46

in the Gaza Strip is the highest

19:49

in the world, more than 60 percent. Health

19:51

services are extremely bad.

19:54

People are waiting for permission

19:56

to go outside Gaza Strip for

19:59

medical care. and sales. So

20:01

it's a bleak situation. Hamas

20:03

says this is because of the blockade.

20:06

The people say yes it is because of the

20:08

blockade but you are the reason of the blockade

20:10

as well. Hamas replies say well

20:12

I am doing this for Palestine and for

20:15

resistance. So you have all these kind

20:17

of debates going around. After

20:20

every single war Hamas's support goes

20:22

up ironically speaking and then during

20:24

peace time people would point their

20:27

finger to the bad services and Hamas

20:29

support was done. You've

20:36

got the cycle of wars going on and

20:38

then you haven't had an election since 2006 when

20:42

Hamas initially took power. Do we have

20:44

any idea how the people in Gaza

20:47

feel about the events

20:49

of last weekend? Definitely in the first

20:51

day or the second day until now in fact

20:53

they were kind of jubilant. They

20:56

were extremely happy. Hamas

20:59

was seen as the only Palestinian,

21:01

not only Palestinian, the only even

21:03

Arab force that could inflict

21:06

such harm and the humiliation

21:09

on the Israeli army. This army that

21:11

defeated Arab countries, Arab

21:14

armies once or twice or three

21:16

times and they have this kind of image

21:18

of being the most powerful and mighty

21:21

force in the region. So Hamas

21:23

is not kind of an official army and

21:26

they managed to go after

21:28

the Israeli army and deep

21:30

into Israeli controlled

21:32

territory 30-40 kilometers.

21:34

For the Palestinians now they tend

21:37

a blind eye on the bad practices and

21:39

others but that was it. People

21:42

obviously aren't jubilant anymore like how do they

21:44

feel about Hamas now that Gaza is

21:46

being destroyed? Well that's the bigger question.

21:49

Nobody expected the scale of retaliation

21:52

that Israel is doing now. What we are seeing

21:54

now is total kind of flattening

21:57

of the entire city.

24:05

Professor Khalid Al-Haroub, Middle

24:07

Eastern Studies at Northwestern University

24:10

in Qatar. He's written a bunch of books

24:12

about Palestine, including one called Hamas,

24:15

A Beginner's Guide. Our show

24:17

today was produced by Halimah Shah and

24:20

Sionah Petros. We were edited by Matthew

24:22

Collette, fact-checked by Serena Solon,

24:25

and mixed by Patrick Boyd. I'm Sean

24:27

Ramisferim. This is Today Explained.