0:01

I am feeling that I

0:03

have to be here. War

0:06

with Russia is my war

0:08

also. It's

0:12

been almost two years since Russia

0:15

escalated its war with Ukraine. And

0:17

two years in, Ukraine is desperate

0:19

for military aid from the United

0:22

States. Your money is not charity.

0:25

It's an investment in the

0:27

global security and democracy that

0:30

we handle in the most

0:32

responsible way. And it's

0:34

not just Zelensky begging for money, it's Biden. Putin

0:37

is banking on the United States failing

0:39

to deliver for Ukraine. We

0:42

must, we must, we must prove

0:44

him wrong. But

0:46

there are no signs that Congress is going

0:49

to budge. And at present, they're not

0:51

going to budge because of the U.S.-Mexico border,

0:53

believe it or not. It's a big

0:55

old mess, and we're going to try and make sense

0:57

of it on Today Explained. Support

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driver error and are driving conditions Always

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drive safely. This

2:10

is today explains. I

2:13

was ready to go to the to

2:15

the army goes so I have to.

2:18

Dude got in touch with the Ukrainian

2:20

soldier so on the eastern front of

2:22

this war this wheels he wanted to

2:24

remain anonymous to protect his safety if

2:26

you were to get captured been verified

2:28

his identity. Everyday. The

2:30

it's allow for on each

2:33

other different jokes you know

2:35

it's also because dissolves jokes

2:37

it so it's now so

2:39

goose Zola jokes and so

2:42

like Great day that they

2:44

know and a little brother

2:46

in arms our brothers in

2:48

arms or is a kills

2:51

also and super down people's

2:53

the kids but to need

2:55

to support each other and

2:57

jokes it's good way. And

3:03

good way may be coffee

3:05

it's maybe some sandwiches may

3:07

be softened. Swedes also supports

3:10

our blood and our soul.

3:14

And to be have to have this

3:16

optimism I mean inside of us to.

3:21

To do to do our

3:23

desks and I try I

3:26

talk to my cell said

3:28

okay I'll have. To

3:31

be. In

3:34

good condition and my.

3:37

Brain. Have to be

3:39

in. Colds and my

3:42

heart of to be of

3:44

arm. Of hot

3:46

hot house? You know? So

3:52

difficult cause now see.

3:55

I don't have enough enough

3:57

weapons. And Alpha ah. with

6:01

tens of thousands of Russian soldiers being killed.

6:03

I mean, I was on the front line

6:05

recently near a town called Abdyevka, which the

6:07

Russians have been trying to seize since last

6:10

October. And I talked to one

6:12

Ukrainian soldier who said, if they

6:14

come, we kill them, then

6:16

more of them come. Close

6:20

up, you see trenches, there

6:22

are booms from outgaying artillery, whistles

6:24

from incoming projectiles, there

6:26

is mud, rats

6:29

now frost, it's very cold in

6:31

Ukraine with glassy looking trees and

6:33

treacherous conditions everywhere in these

6:35

kind of bare frozen fields, but

6:38

with the addition of drones. So it's this

6:40

mashup between First World War, early 20th century

6:42

and 21st war, where

6:44

both sides have got complete

6:46

reconnaissance in the battlefield, and

6:49

it's impossible to do anything by

6:51

stealth or by surprise. And

6:53

you would have thought that these sort of tactics where

6:56

hundreds of Russian soldiers die every day, that

6:59

they would change up, but they're not.

7:02

And the sort of Putin strategy is

7:04

to overwhelm Ukraine, to smother Ukraine, to

7:07

use Russia's superior volumes of

7:09

everything, whether it's artillery or

7:11

ballistic missiles or warplanes, and

7:14

to grind out some kind of victory. It

7:21

sounds like this counter offensive has failed.

7:23

Yeah, I mean, that's right. I mean,

7:25

these things are always, Sean, they're always

7:27

sort of perspectival. So if we

7:29

were sitting here, let's say two years

7:32

ago, early 2022, before the full

7:34

scale of Asian, and I said, well, at that

7:36

point, the Pentagon, the US, basically

7:39

assumed that the Russians would overrule Ukraine,

7:41

topple the government of Vladimir Zelensky, set

7:43

up a puppet administration in Kiev, and

7:46

fold Ukraine back into Russia. And

7:49

that didn't happen. I mean, the

7:51

Russians tried to take Kiev, but

7:53

they failed. And actually, Ukraine's

7:55

taken back quite a lot of territory. But

7:58

the problem now is that... So

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Ukraine explained. It's Ukraine

17:17

explained. My

17:20

name is Andrew Desiderio. I'm a senior

17:22

congressional reporter for Punchbowl News. And,

17:24

you know, a little bit about this funding

17:26

battle for the Ukraine war in Congress. A

17:29

little bit. Yeah, it's been my whole life for the

17:31

past few months. Will

17:34

Ukraine get the money? And if not, why

17:36

not? Well, look, it's

17:39

an open question at this point. Congress

17:41

has tried many times over the last,

17:44

I don't know, 12 months or so to get

17:46

more money to Ukraine, to get more

17:49

funding authorities for the president to transfer

17:51

weapons from U.S. stockpiles. And at

17:53

least three times they have failed to do so. And

17:56

what's basically happened is each time they have

17:58

been thwarted by the House. Republicans.

18:00

But right now, the big sort of

18:02

hang up is that Republicans

18:05

are demanding that any future aid

18:07

for Ukraine be attached to legislation

18:10

that imposes policy changes for the

18:12

U.S.-Mexico border, which members of both

18:14

parties agree is a problem that

18:16

should be addressed for sure. Where

18:18

Democrats differ from Republicans on this

18:20

is they don't believe that it

18:22

should be tied to what is

18:24

viewed as emergency spending for Ukraine,

18:26

for Israel, and for Taiwan. Okay,

18:28

a lot to process there. You

18:31

got Ukraine funding, you've got border

18:33

funding, you've got Taiwan, you've got

18:35

Israel. Let's just focus on how

18:37

it is that funding for the

18:39

war in Ukraine got tied to

18:42

the southern border. Can you help us wrap

18:44

our heads around that? Yeah, so, you know,

18:46

a lot of progressives are frustrated with the

18:48

White House right now because back in August,

18:51

they actually included additional funding

18:53

resources to help manage the crisis at

18:55

the border as part of their request

18:57

for money for Ukraine, Israel, and the

19:00

Indo-Pacific. And the

19:02

thinking at the time was that this

19:04

would be a way to sort of

19:07

sweeten the deal for Republicans. It ended

19:09

up backfiring and doing the exact opposite.

19:11

Republicans saw that the White House asked

19:13

for it and said, well, you're asking

19:15

for it, so let's negotiate. And what

19:17

they did was they made a series

19:20

of demands surrounding border security, policy changes,

19:22

restrictions on us, the ability to seek

19:24

asylum, restrictions on the ability of the

19:26

administration to parole migrants

19:28

who are processed into the United

19:30

States from the southern border. We delivered

19:33

common sense legislation that will

19:36

secure our border, but it's been sitting on

19:38

Chuck Schumer's desk for seven months. House

19:41

resolution two was our bill and the

19:43

time to act on it is yesterday.

19:45

And that is the standoff we're currently in

19:47

right now because this is really the third

19:50

rail of American politics. And the

19:52

thinking is if you're tying Ukraine aid, one

19:54

of the most contentious, difficult

19:56

issues Congress has ever had

19:58

to address. then that doesn't

20:00

fare well for Ukraine aid, and that has

20:03

unfortunately borne out to be true. Which

20:05

is to say that the Biden administration,

20:08

whom we spoke with when they made this

20:11

decision, miscalculated by

20:13

tying border funding to

20:16

the war on Ukraine. That is what

20:18

a lot of progressives think. They think

20:20

it gave Republicans an opening to demand

20:22

these border policy changes as part of

20:24

this supplemental funding request, because, well, in

20:26

their view, the White House put it

20:28

on the table, so we're going to

20:31

negotiate around that. So

20:33

you have Democrats and the White

20:35

House kind of throwing shade at

20:37

Republicans for tying these two issues

20:39

together. Extreme Republicans are playing chicken

20:41

with our national security. Holding

20:44

Ukraine's funding hostage is our extreme

20:46

partisan border policy. But then

20:48

Republicans are coming back at them and saying, whoa,

20:50

whoa, whoa, we didn't tie them together. You tied

20:53

them together. And they're technically correct

20:55

when they say that. Putting all the politics

20:58

aside and the gamesmanship,

21:01

what do Republicans actually

21:04

think about this war in Ukraine? Are

21:07

there Republicans who wouldn't support it, even

21:09

if it hadn't been tied to border

21:11

funding? That's exactly the case. So you

21:14

have Republicans like Mitch McConnell, who are

21:16

the more traditional neoconservative hawkish Republicans who

21:18

are going to support Ukraine no matter what.

21:20

They're going to be tied to the hip

21:23

with Democrats, with President Biden on that issue,

21:25

as they have been. Continuing our support for

21:27

Ukraine is morally right.

21:30

But it's not only that. It's

21:33

also a direct investment in cold,

21:35

hard American interests. And then

21:37

you have a very significant contingent, especially

21:39

in the House and a growing group

21:41

at that, that will not support Ukraine

21:43

aid no matter what it's tied to.

21:45

I mean, you could tie every

21:48

border restriction under the sun that

21:51

Stephen Miller and Donald Trump would love to have

21:53

as part of this To

21:55

Ukraine Aid, and they still would not vote

21:57

for it because of the Ukraine aid portion.

22:00

Add a one hundred billion dollars supplemental

22:02

of with sixty billion will go to

22:04

your brain. So so that is the

22:07

way. Why is it that some. Republicans.

22:10

Are so staunchly against funding

22:12

this war. Well. That's a

22:14

very complicated question. I would say

22:16

that as the influence of Donald

22:18

Trump is definitely the biggest thing

22:20

here, Donald Trump or his whole

22:22

foreign policy ethos was America first

22:24

as idea that we can be

22:26

involved in foreign wars that don't

22:28

have a direct bearing on the

22:30

lives of Americans. I it's more

22:32

sort of non interventionist isolation as

22:34

if you wanna call as and

22:36

the issue of Ukraine has become

22:38

so politically charged in the United

22:40

States ever since Donald Trump was

22:42

impeached. The. First time for his

22:44

phone call with Ukrainian President once the

22:47

in which he threatened to basically

22:49

cut off Us aid to Ukraine unless

22:51

they started an investigation into Joe Biden

22:54

and his son Hunter. The White

22:56

House has just released a transcript of

22:58

President Trump's July. Twenty fifth phone

23:00

call with Ukraine's president so after

23:02

that exchange about us helps Ukraine

23:04

from said says I would like

23:06

you to do us a favor.

23:08

A whistle blower report related to that

23:10

phone call lead a house speaker Nancy

23:13

Pelosi to open a formal impeachment inquiry

23:15

and at the time that got a

23:17

lotta republicans angry as the idea that

23:19

oh Donald Trump is being targeted for

23:21

this stuff rates and it made Ukrainian

23:24

and political issue and an issue that

23:26

their the republican base and particular last

23:28

on see you and said hey we'll

23:30

look at all this corruption in Ukraine

23:33

Donald Trump is right to do this

23:35

and so when this issue comes up

23:37

where there is no. Basically under

23:39

full scale assault by the Russian army.

23:41

You have Republicans who are thinking back

23:43

to that episode and saying has, is

23:46

it really worth us giving. you

23:48

know billions of dollars and lot of

23:50

our weapons to ukraine help them fight

23:52

the russians infrastructure minister arrested for stealing

23:54

four hundred thousand dollars deputy head of

23:57

the wednesday's office can explain where the

23:59

sports cars game for i'm sorry had

24:01

to resign. But I think the main

24:03

sort of reason why this has become

24:05

so difficult for the Republican Party is

24:07

politics. And I talked to

24:09

a Republican senator a few weeks ago who

24:11

is in the McConnell crowd, a very supportive

24:13

of Ukraine. And I asked him, I said,

24:16

what do you think it is that ever

24:18

since the war started, there's been this steep

24:20

decline of support for Ukraine among members of

24:22

your party. And the senator

24:24

said to me, I have tried to

24:27

get an intellectually honest answer out of

24:29

the anti-Ukraine crowd as to why

24:31

they don't support sending more money to

24:33

Ukraine. I have not found one apart

24:36

from domestic politics. And

24:38

that is really what it boils down

24:40

to, is that Ukraine has become almost

24:42

a domestic political issue in the United

24:44

States, especially for people

24:46

who are aligned with Donald

24:48

Trump and people who have

24:50

been the staunchest apologists for

24:52

him, really, ever since he

24:54

first came into office. Which

24:57

is to say in, what is

24:59

it, 10 months, 11 months when

25:01

there is an election, if Joe

25:04

Biden loses to the former

25:06

president, that might be

25:09

the end of Ukraine funding

25:11

forever. Yeah, I

25:13

think it's fair to say that. And a lot

25:15

of Democrats at the last midterm elections were warning

25:18

that if Republicans took the House, which they did,

25:20

that could be the end of Ukraine

25:22

funding forever. And of course, Congress has

25:25

not passed new Ukraine funding ever since

25:27

the lame duck period right after that

25:29

election. Even when it's been led

25:31

by someone like Mitch McConnell, it's been a failure of

25:33

an effort. You

25:38

know, frankly, one of the arguments that Mitch

25:40

McConnell makes, which I think is one of

25:43

the strongest arguments in favor of Ukraine aid,

25:45

is that America is not sending any troops.

25:47

We're not spilling any blood to help the

25:49

Ukrainians. And we are helping them degrade the

25:51

Russian army. I mean, that is on its

25:54

own a serious

25:56

investment, a worthwhile investment in

25:59

our national security. So, you know, to

26:01

people like Mitch McConnell, this is a no-brainer

26:03

of an issue. But in the Republican Party

26:05

today, with Donald Trump's influence the way it

26:07

is, that is no longer the case. Andrew

26:27

Desidario reports on Congress

26:30

for Punchbowl. Find his

26:32

work at punchbowl.news. Our

26:34

program today was produced by Victoria Chamberlain

26:37

and Isabel Angel. We were edited by

26:39

Amina Alsadi, fact-checked by Laura Bullard and

26:41

mixed by Patrick Boyd. It's

26:43

today explained. I

26:55

don't know what will

26:57

I do when this is

26:59

over. I really hope

27:01

that I can continue

27:06

my own business. I

27:11

really hope that I will be

27:13

alive. I

27:16

really hope and I talk

27:22

to God, talk to God

27:24

to support me in different

27:26

ways. And I really

27:29

want to be alive. God

27:57

bless. you