0:00

It's been a rough week for your

0:02

retirement account, your friend who imports

0:04

products from China for the Tiktok

0:06

shop, and also Hooters. Hooters has

0:08

now filed for bankruptcy, but they

0:10

say they are not going anywhere.

0:12

Last year, Hooters closed dozens of

0:15

restaurants because of rising food and

0:17

labor costs. Hooters is shifting away

0:19

from its iconic skimpy waitress outfits

0:22

and bikini days instead opting for

0:24

a family-friendly vibe. They're vowing to

0:26

improve the food and ingredients, and

0:29

staff is now being urged to

0:31

greet women first when groups arrive.

0:33

Maybe in April of 2025 you're

0:36

thinking good riddance? Does the world

0:38

still really need this chain of

0:41

restaurants? But then we were surprised

0:43

to learn of who exactly was

0:45

mourning the potential loss. of hooders.

0:48

Straight guys who like chicken, sure.

0:50

But also a bunch of gay

0:52

guys who like chicken. Why exactly

0:54

that is coming up on the

0:56

show today. Hey

1:00

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6:02

you and your grandfather? Yeah, I mean

6:04

who knows if it was how I

6:07

held myself or how my voice quivered

6:09

when I responded to her or how

6:11

I never quite met her gaze or

6:14

how I was just sweating

6:16

my way through the lunch, but she

6:18

could tell that I was not

6:20

comfortable and I don't know

6:22

if that's because she actually clocked

6:24

me as gay, but she could

6:26

tell that I was hurting in

6:28

that moment and She wanted

6:30

to help. And you shared this

6:33

story while you were at the airport,

6:35

hung over? I did. I really

6:37

didn't think about it much. And

6:40

then of course I get on the

6:42

airplane, I don't have access

6:44

to Wi-Fi, I land at

6:46

LaGuardia some five hours later, and

6:48

it had, I think it was

6:51

already over 100,000 likes. What

6:53

were people saying to you

6:55

in response to this story

6:57

you shared? Part of the response.

6:59

I anticipated. I thought that

7:01

folks would be charmed by

7:04

the story, would find it

7:06

sweet and sentimental.

7:08

The part of the response that

7:10

I did not anticipate

7:12

was the deluge of

7:15

direct messages from queer

7:17

people who described very

7:19

similar dynamics, very

7:21

similar experiences. I

7:24

describe it in the piece

7:26

as a baptism into manhood.

7:28

Time and again, I saw the

7:30

exact same refrain, conversion therapy with

7:32

a side of ranch. These young

7:34

men who didn't know what they

7:36

were being brought into, being coaxed

7:39

into the family sedan, and

7:41

driven to hooders, to augle

7:43

some breasts. Tell us specifically

7:46

about stories you heard from

7:48

people. Was it like just a carbon

7:50

copy of your story, or were there,

7:52

you know, some variations? A lot of

7:55

them were similar, but there was a

7:57

great deal of diversity as well. I

8:00

note in the piece, Mike Dare,

8:02

grew up in Omaha, Nebraska, and

8:04

his father would take him to

8:07

Hooters quite regularly. Mike told me

8:09

that he was a very flamboyant

8:11

little boy. It was clear from

8:13

an early age that he was

8:16

queer. And this one particular meal

8:18

was seared into his memory. He

8:20

recalled his dad asking two Hooter's

8:23

waitresses to take a photo with

8:25

him, kissing him kissing him. on

8:27

the cheeks. And as he recounts

8:30

it to me, they look at

8:32

him, can tell he's uncomfortable, and

8:34

say, we think he'd prefer this

8:37

instead. They gave him bunny ears.

8:39

And then as they're walking away,

8:41

one of them turns around to

8:44

wink at him. And as he

8:46

describes it to me, from that

8:48

moment forward, he viewed Hooters as

8:50

his safe space. And I'm quoting

8:53

him there. He said it was

8:55

his quote unquote safe space. After

8:57

that dinner, he looked forward to

9:00

going to Hooters. Wow, amazing. This

9:02

one gentleman I spoke with shared

9:04

how when he was just nine

9:07

years old, his parents took him

9:09

to a Hooters in Atlantic City.

9:11

And as he expressed it to

9:14

me, it was very obvious that

9:16

he was gay. And his parents

9:18

kept encouraging him to flirt with

9:21

their waitress. In fact, they... pushed

9:23

the waitress to flirt with him,

9:25

again a nine-year-old child. And later

9:27

in the meal, he excuses himself

9:30

to use the restroom. The waitress

9:32

finds him, kneels down, and asks

9:34

him if he's okay. He says,

9:37

yes, she smiles. And as he

9:39

puts it to me, it was

9:41

one of the most important moments

9:44

of his life. And he still

9:46

lives in Atlantic City, and every

9:48

time he passes that hooders, he

9:51

thinks back on it and reflects

9:53

on that moment. I

9:59

spoke to a number of

10:01

Hooter's waitresses too who echoed

10:03

all of these accounts. Lucy

10:05

Wilkinson, who's quoted in the

10:07

piece, who's been a server

10:10

at Hooters for a number

10:12

of years, said that she

10:14

has witnessed this phenomenon many,

10:16

many times, to the extent

10:18

that she now goes out

10:20

of her way to comfort

10:22

the queer kids that she

10:24

sees being brought in by

10:26

their family members. It's kind

10:28

of funny. to be having

10:31

this conversation as we're hearing

10:33

that Hooters is in some

10:35

serious financial trouble. Have you

10:37

heard from anyone who said

10:39

like, wow, I really thought

10:41

Hooters was all about something

10:43

else and I wish I

10:45

had gone as a kid

10:47

or as a teenager or

10:49

even as an adult? Yeah,

10:52

what I've learned in the

10:54

past week or so is

10:56

that there is a hell

10:58

of a lot of love

11:00

for Hooters out there, particularly

11:02

from queer folks. And it's

11:04

especially funny because I think

11:06

if you just look at

11:08

pop culture from Saturday Night

11:10

Live to American Dad to

11:13

Joe Rogan, the hooders waitress

11:15

is not presented well. She

11:17

is depicted as a dim,

11:19

I say in the piece,

11:21

vacant-eyed succibis, a wannabe stepford

11:23

wife. And... What I heard

11:25

time and again from all

11:27

of these queer people in

11:29

my inbox was that perception

11:31

is a slander as lazy

11:34

as it is persistent. These

11:36

women genuinely care, earnestly care

11:38

about the folks who come

11:40

into their restaurants and go

11:42

out of their way to

11:44

make everyone feel as comfortable

11:46

and as welcome as possible,

11:48

queer or not. Peter's

11:56

opinions about hooders were

11:58

published in the New

12:00

York Times. opinion section.

12:02

Currently the piece is

12:04

titled Why Dad's Take

12:06

Their Gay Sons to

12:08

Hooters, but at one

12:10

point it was titled

12:12

Failed Conversion Therapy with

12:14

a Side of Ranch

12:17

at Hooters. I prefer

12:19

that O.G. title. Onward

12:21

to the origins of

12:23

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15:46

And Thai, believe it or

15:48

not, is putting the finishing

15:51

touches on a book about

15:53

hooters and other restaurants like

15:56

it. The Hooters brand originates

15:58

in Clearwater Florida. April 1st

16:00

April Fool's Day 1983. This

16:03

week? Yes, it's sort of

16:05

an anniversary. Wow. So did

16:07

people think it was a

16:10

joke? Yeah, and even the

16:12

original owners behind the brand

16:14

kind of saw the humor

16:16

in six guys who really

16:19

had no experience in terms

16:21

of... running and operating a

16:23

restaurant, much less one that

16:25

would go on to have

16:27

such an iconic status. And

16:30

so the actual name, Hooters,

16:32

surprisingly enough, was inspired by

16:34

a Steve Martin bit from

16:36

one of his comedy albums

16:39

of the early 80s called

16:41

What I Believe, a patriotic

16:43

statement. And I believe in

16:45

going to church every Sunday

16:47

unless there's a game on.

16:49

And he makes a comment

16:51

about what he thinks this

16:53

part of women's anatomy should

16:55

be called. And you should

16:57

only refer to them as

16:59

hooders. It got off to

17:02

a shaky start in October

17:04

of 1983, but by the

17:06

following year, it had reached

17:08

considerable success locally that then

17:10

blew up nationally. Tell me

17:12

how it gets there. How

17:15

does it go from a

17:17

potential April Fool's joke to

17:19

blowing up nationally? The original

17:21

Hooter Six, basically men

17:23

who had kind of blue collar.

17:25

service sector jobs who wanted to

17:28

find a place according to them

17:30

where they could hang out drink

17:32

and not get kicked out of

17:34

the establishment. If you like what

17:37

you see here on the outside,

17:39

you're going to love what you'll

17:41

see on the inside. televised sports.

17:43

beach shack atmosphere and ambience.

17:45

The recipe for hooter's chicken

17:48

wings is so secret even

17:50

our cooks aren't allowed to

17:53

know it. Our food that

17:55

you could eat primarily with

17:57

your hands and attractive scantily

18:00

clad servers. Hey kids, you want

18:02

to do your dad a really

18:04

big favor? Tell your mom you

18:06

want to go to Hooter. The

18:09

original Hooter Six, when they initially

18:11

launched the business, were looking for

18:13

ways to drum up customers to

18:16

get them to come into the

18:18

restaurant. So they would do all

18:20

types of gorilla. type marketing things,

18:22

dressing up in a crazy chicken

18:25

suit. They would go out into

18:27

traffic and try to direct people

18:29

into the parking lot. There was

18:32

a famous kind of derelict boat.

18:34

that had been kind of half

18:36

sunk in Tampa Bay and one

18:38

of the original hooter six swam

18:41

out there with a can of

18:43

orange paint and a six-pack and

18:45

painted the word hooters on it.

18:48

So this boat had a lot

18:50

of visibility on the nearby roadway.

18:52

And so people began to see

18:55

it. So they were like fully

18:57

committed to the brand and making

18:59

people know about it. And I

19:01

don't think you can argue with

19:04

the results in terms of like

19:06

the success it had in terms

19:08

of getting people aware and familiar

19:11

with the Hooters brand. One

19:13

of the things that kind

19:15

of brought it to national

19:17

attention was the 1984 Super

19:19

Bowl was played in Tampa

19:21

Super Bowl 18 a match

19:23

up between the two best

19:25

teams coach Tom Flory's just

19:28

for president congratulations One of

19:30

the standout players was a

19:32

running back named John Riggins

19:34

John Riggins kind of had

19:36

this outsider edgy kind of

19:38

rebel persona He somehow he

19:40

found hooders in nearby clear

19:42

water Apparently he was spending

19:44

a lot of time there

19:47

rather than prepping for the

19:49

Super Bowl. I started out

19:51

by saying I'm bored, I'm

19:53

broke, and I'm back. It

19:55

somehow got national press. By

19:57

that point you have this

19:59

restaurant entrepreneur who became aware

20:01

of the brand. He made

20:03

the... an offer that he

20:06

would take the hooders idea

20:08

and concept nationwide and so

20:10

you have this kind of

20:12

beginning of this split in

20:14

the hooders brand between two

20:16

companies. hooders incorporated which is

20:18

the original six owners they

20:20

would be the ones that

20:22

oversee the hooders in and

20:25

around Tampa Florida as well

20:27

as many in the Chicago

20:29

area and then hooders of

20:31

America. which became the kind

20:33

of national brand for Hooters,

20:35

and then would go on

20:37

to have an international footprint

20:39

within dozens of countries around

20:41

the world. Over time, Hooters

20:44

has kind of ebbed and

20:46

flowed in terms of popularity,

20:48

in terms of success, and

20:50

was the bellwether brand for

20:52

this whole genre, what is

20:54

termed, restaurants. And

20:58

what exactly is the definition?

21:00

A restaurant where women are...

21:02

Kind of a variation of

21:04

a stereotypical sports bar. So

21:07

it's a type of casual

21:09

dining venue where beer drinking,

21:11

where meat eating, where televised

21:13

sports is... foregrounded, but it's

21:16

probably most known and well

21:18

associated with the types of

21:20

servers that are employed there.

21:22

The restaurant genre itself did

21:25

pretty well in the years,

21:27

like immediately following the Great

21:29

Recession. So you have the

21:31

emergence of brands like Twin

21:34

Peaks. Twin Peaks, eats, drinks,

21:36

scenic views. Tilted kilt. Tilted

21:38

kilt. Tilted kilt. Pop and

21:40

eatery. Cold beer never looked

21:42

so good. and then multiple

21:45

other brands that came out

21:47

at the time. Maybe the

21:49

peak of the genre itself

21:51

would be the mid-2010. Okay.

21:54

After that, you have like

21:56

this kind of convergence of

21:58

forces that kind of put

22:00

restaurants on the ropes, so

22:03

to speak. You have, of

22:05

course, Me Too and Time's

22:07

Up. where these types of

22:09

venues came under scrutiny in

22:12

a lot of ways because

22:14

you know a lot of

22:16

times the servers have to

22:18

endure or are subject to

22:20

unwanted advances, not so nice

22:23

comments from patrons. When we

22:25

get, for example, a customer,

22:27

it's like a couple, you'll

22:29

be surprised like the minute

22:32

the lady goes to the

22:34

bathroom, he'll ask you for

22:36

your number or something like

22:38

that. You have like this

22:41

kind of power differential between

22:43

young wage earning servers, female

22:45

servers, who depend on their

22:47

livelihoods for tips with these

22:50

kind of older, primarily male

22:52

customers. This is just a

22:54

restaurant to us. We're just

22:56

waitresses, but to them. It's

22:58

like... you're an entertainer. So

23:01

sometimes they're like, well, you're

23:03

not getting this tip because

23:05

you didn't entertain me. You

23:07

know, it creates kind of

23:10

this dynamic, has created problems.

23:12

And this is how we

23:14

get to Hooter's declaring bankruptcy.

23:16

This week, is Hooter's Inc.

23:19

the one declaring bankruptcy, or

23:21

is it Hooters of America?

23:23

No, it is the Hooters

23:25

of America. So

23:28

the Hooters of America is

23:31

the one that it was

23:33

like had the wider geographic

23:35

footprints, international, it was the

23:37

one that was more highly

23:40

capitalized, the restaurants affiliated with

23:42

Hooters of America were the

23:44

ones that were experiencing, you

23:47

know, the closures, the problems,

23:49

things like this. Hooters, ink,

23:51

the ones... primarily in Tampa

23:53

area as well as Chicago,

23:56

have remained pretty solid. And

23:58

now they're the ones that

24:00

are looking to buy out

24:03

their counterparts in the hooders

24:05

under the hooders of America

24:07

umbrella. And so I guess

24:10

it remains to be seen

24:12

if they will be successful.

24:14

It's a brand that now

24:16

a lot of people have

24:19

fond, perhaps, memories of, you

24:21

know, even though their primary

24:23

clientele is like a male

24:26

18 to 34, perhaps older

24:28

demographic. Families do go to

24:30

hooders. Parents take their children

24:32

to hooders. Grandparents take their

24:35

grandkids to hooders. You know,

24:37

there are high chairs at

24:39

hooders. The hooders gift shop

24:42

sells onesies. So I think

24:44

they recognize the reality of

24:46

kind of the market situation.

24:49

And you know. Really, no

24:51

brand can be successful by

24:53

just like focusing specifically on

24:55

half of the population. In

24:58

order to thrive and be

25:00

viable, you really have to

25:02

have a, you know, broadening

25:05

appeal. And do you think

25:07

the original six owners of

25:09

Hooters who came up with

25:11

this concept in the first

25:14

place and incorporated on April

25:16

Fool's Day, 1983, had any

25:18

idea that one day they'd

25:21

be trying to... you know,

25:23

better appeal to women and

25:25

kids and be selling baby

25:28

onesies? Yeah, I mean, I

25:30

think that would be a

25:32

stretch to think they had

25:34

any inkling that this would

25:37

kind of become the iconic

25:39

brand that we recognize today.

25:41

I mean, that's kind of

25:44

like what is notable and,

25:46

you know, for some people

25:48

special about the Hooters brand,

25:50

you know, it's kind of

25:53

like these guys. decided to

25:55

start this place basically where

25:57

they can hang out and

26:00

be them. and it became

26:02

this global phenomenon. Problematic phenomenon,

26:04

of course, but nonetheless, one

26:06

that is an integral part

26:09

of our corporate foodscape here

26:11

in the US and elsewhere.

26:13

I would be sad, mainly

26:16

because of my coworkers. Like,

26:18

I love them so much.

26:20

And I love working with

26:23

girls, all women. And we're

26:25

just like a family. And

26:27

I feel like if we

26:29

did close down tomorrow, then

26:32

I probably wouldn't talk to

26:34

them. I would, but it

26:36

wouldn't be the same. Thai

26:43

Madioski is the author of

26:45

the forthcoming risque business Restaurants

26:47

in American culture it drops

26:49

in August, but you can

26:51

make your reservation now Our

26:53

show today was produced by

26:55

Victoria Chamberlain with a little

26:58

help from our senior researcher

27:00

Laura Bullard who visited a

27:02

hooders in her neighborhood for

27:04

the very first time to

27:06

talk to some servers for

27:08

us. Yo hooders is like

27:10

I've never been in a

27:12

hooders before and Yeah,

27:14

it's not going to be

27:17

my last time. Those were

27:19

the nicest women? Wow. It's

27:21

such a lovely place. Jolly

27:23

Myers edited Patrick Boyd, mixed,

27:26

Avi Shai Artsi, Gabrielle Burbay,

27:28

Hadi Muagdi, Amanda Luellen, Carla

27:30

Javier, Miles Brian, Peter Balanon

27:32

Rosen, Andrea Kristen's daughter, Devin

27:35

Schwartz, Amna Alsari, Miranda Kennedy,

27:37

and Noel King. Make the

27:39

show too with Break Master

27:41

cylinder on the ones and

27:43

two. Today Explain is distributed

27:46

by WNYC. The show is

27:48

a part of Vox. You

27:50

can support our journalism by

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joining our membership program today.

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Go to vox.com/members to sign

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up and I'm pretty sure

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that's also how to get

28:01

this show. without ads if

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you're

28:09

interested.

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