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results are not guaranteed. Welcome

4:00

to the Total Soccer Show and our latest

4:02

batch of Listener Questions. Welcome to the Total

4:04

Soccer Show and our latest batch of Listener

4:07

Questions! Today we're talking about the impact of

4:09

Nome Germa's big transfer. We're exploring left-wing altars.

4:11

And we're picking out our favorite goal songs.

4:13

Here we're going on. So my name's Ryan

4:16

Bailey joining me today, your friend, my friend.

4:18

He's got his hand in the mailbag. His

4:20

name is Taylor Rockwell. Hello, Taylor. Hello, Ryan.

4:22

I wish we did have a physical mailbag.

4:25

That would be great. We should have all

4:27

letters set to Graham's house. Graham can do

4:29

the sorting. I feel like he'd be good

4:31

at it. It would be good. Just like

4:33

a big burlap site that we empty out

4:36

onto a desk every day. That would be

4:38

cool, wouldn't it. I'd like that. I'd like

4:40

that. It would be. But then we'd have

4:42

to open mail, but then we'd have to

4:45

open mail, but then we'd have to open

4:47

mail, and crazy letters, and crazy letters, and

4:49

crazy letters, and crazy letters, and crazy letters,

4:51

and crazy letters, and crazy letters, and crazy

4:54

letters, and crazy letters, and crazy letters, and

4:56

crazy letters, and crazy letters, and crazy letters,

4:58

and crazy letters, and crazy letters, and crazy

5:00

letters, and crazy letters, and I mean it's

5:03

not so cool if you have to do

5:05

the work and sort out which it seems

5:07

has been a sign to me so thanks

5:09

I guess. I also like that you got

5:12

it because quote I feel like Graham would

5:14

be good at that good at what like

5:16

putting things in piles like what's the what's

5:18

the skill set the Graham has that lends

5:21

him especially well to that Graham big piles

5:23

rough and yeah that's that's what we all

5:25

know that I think he you know organization

5:27

good sorting I think that's all Graham style

5:30

yeah that's true. Joe do you want it

5:32

you want it you want it? No, I

5:34

want Graham to have it. I already did

5:36

the Tottenham thing earlier this week, guys. I'm

5:38

not doing this too. I want Graham to

5:41

have it. I just like how you toss

5:43

it out like it was some compliment. Like,

5:45

oh, Grimm's probably good at that. And what

5:47

we're talking about is just literally putting things

5:50

into piles. There we go. Very good at

5:52

that. It's just literally putting things into piles.

5:54

There we're talking about. It's just literally putting

5:56

things you got lined up, Graham. So I

5:59

think five is what I'm going to go

6:01

with. This might actually be my Everest. All

6:03

the matches, all the major tournaments that I've

6:05

done, all that I've covered in my professional

6:08

career. might be my ultimate test. So I

6:10

was thinking about my strategy earlier on today.

6:12

I think I'm going to go with five

6:14

screens and then record all the matches and

6:17

then rewatch the ones back that catch light

6:19

because there will be some duds in there

6:21

a bit. I thought when you said strategy

6:23

you were going to talk about the all

6:26

the Haribo you're about to be eating. I

6:28

think we all agreed that that champions like

6:30

a show we're all just going to sort

6:32

of sit back and watch Graham Cook, right?

6:34

This feels like Alan I person getting ready

6:37

for getting ready for the I feel like

6:39

there's a good chance that this show is

6:41

going out on Friday, not the day that

6:43

we're actually recording this. So at least, at

6:46

least listeners and viewers, you'll get to see

6:48

Graham's pure unadulterated joy right now and maybe

6:50

he'll have pain on yesterday's show or whatever

6:52

day this is going on the Champions League

6:55

show. Maybe his attitude will be slightly more

6:57

downcast after watching 87,000 games at once. I

6:59

think I'll be hit with a boat of

7:01

the Big Angies, I think. Oh, good careful.

7:04

careful we want you smiling Graham we don't

7:06

need that Joe Lowry there hello Joe how

7:08

are you peeling back the curtain there Joe

7:10

but we were discussing the movie tenant before

7:13

we came online today so maybe time is

7:15

moving backwards actually and everything's fine and people

7:17

will hear this in the wrong right order

7:19

Graham's playing 80 chess Graham is on another

7:22

level right now I actually really respect that

7:24

what is Graham the only one of us

7:26

who actually Who watched it? No, Graham, you

7:28

said you didn't make it all the way

7:31

through Tenet. Was that it? I watched 30

7:33

minutes of Tenet and then realize... Nope! I

7:35

am not interested in bullets going backwards for

7:37

more than half an hour. So... Wow, that's

7:39

a slow bullet. That really is. Anyway. Indeed.

7:42

patron.com/total soccer show is where you'll find some

7:44

quality moving in a correct linear fashion content.

7:46

We have bonus episodes, bonus videos, and of

7:48

course, access to our Discord server where you,

7:51

dear listener, can submit listener questions. Join us

7:53

there. Total soccer show.com/patron. Nailed it.com, say show.

7:55

Was that the one you were looking for?

7:57

Yeah, it's in the show notes. Don't sweat

8:00

it. Yeah, just look in the show notes.

8:02

I'm trying to be rude here, but this

8:04

is why Ryan wasn't a sign mailback duties.

8:06

This specific moment right here. Makes sense. Accepted.

8:09

We're on YouTube as well, so you can

8:11

see me flushing with embarrassment as I forget

8:13

the URL, which I say several times most

8:15

days. Let's get well. Listen to questions. Thank

8:18

you to everybody who has submitted them. Peter

8:20

Shark has been in touch via our discord.

8:22

Here we go. How have the wages of

8:24

head coaches or managers evolved? The manager. is

8:27

the boss. In most industries, in industries, excuse

8:29

me, bosses make the most money. Today many

8:31

players make more money than their coach. Was

8:33

that always the case? And if not, when

8:36

did this dynamic switch? Or is that only

8:38

the case at the very top level? In

8:40

MLS, the coaches make about the same or

8:42

more money than non-designated players. Joe is our

8:44

greatest believer that soccer coaches are of... the

8:47

most important to any team. They're as important

8:49

as assists. Is there pay commensurate with their

8:51

importance for you? And how did you tackle

8:53

any of Peter's multitude of questions? I love

8:56

that. I love that equivalence there. I think

8:58

I'm right on board with you. So as

9:00

a disclaimer up front, this stuff is super

9:02

hard to find. That's the thing that I

9:05

learned first and foremost doing research for this

9:07

question. Just go to a capology. Capology is

9:09

never wrong. Although we do reference it quite

9:11

a bit on this show because it's the

9:14

best thing we have when it comes to

9:16

player salaries. It's the only thing we have.

9:18

It's the only thing we have. The thing

9:20

that is is the hardest to find that

9:23

is historical coaching data. Like it is you're

9:25

hoping for a guardian article here from 15

9:27

years ago and you know something on the

9:29

internet archives over there 30 years ago. It's

9:32

really really difficult to find. I think some

9:34

general principles though for my findings are are

9:36

are this in the premier league. Sometimes managers

9:38

make more than players, which did surprise me

9:41

a little bit. So front office sports did

9:43

a list which I think needs an even

9:45

larger grain of salt than the capology stuff

9:47

that we talk about, but they did a

9:49

list of the salaries for every Premier League

9:52

manager. And they've got PEP making $26 million

9:54

a year this year with city's highest paid

9:56

player according to capology. capology never wrong. Kevin

9:58

DeBroyna who's making 25 million dollars a year,

10:01

again grain of salt here, but Pep a

10:03

little bit more than DeBroyna Arsenal or in

10:05

a similar situation with Artetta making 20 million

10:07

and Halvert's making 17 at least a little

10:10

bit more. Uni Amri at Villa, Bubekar Kamara,

10:12

10 million for Amri, 9 million for Kamara.

10:14

I think generally in the athletic piece about

10:16

this. the managers in the Premier League make

10:19

about as much as the squad's highest paid

10:21

player. I think that probably changes a little

10:23

bit when you get down to some of

10:25

the lower spenders like the numbers I found

10:28

on Iriola at Bournemouth was one million for

10:30

him and five million for Evan Olson. So

10:32

I don't think it's like set in stone

10:34

so much but generally speaking you'll see coaches

10:37

paid about the same as their top player

10:39

at some of these high-level European leagues. I

10:41

think an MLS that's very much shifted and

10:43

it seems like Peter already got to that

10:45

with the question, specifying non-DPs rather than, you

10:48

know, is Javier Marsharano making as much as

10:50

messy? No, the answer is no. And in

10:52

general, I think MLS coaches are probably in

10:54

the, you know, high six figures, mid six

10:57

figures, two, like super, super, super low seven

10:59

figures would be my guess. But it is,

11:01

there's no information about this out there publicly

11:03

that I could find that is super reliable.

11:06

The historical thing that I did find that

11:08

I thought was interesting and that I'll let

11:10

somebody else go is that Sir Alex Ferguson,

11:12

when he was with Manchester United, signed a

11:15

contract in 2010, and this is from one

11:17

of his books, that ensured he would receive

11:19

a higher salary than any of his players.

11:21

So that leads me to believe that previously

11:24

his contract wasn't set up that way, and

11:26

he had players that were making more money

11:28

than him. I do think there is a

11:30

moment where the dynamic maybe starts to shift

11:33

and at the big clubs around the world,

11:35

the coaches become this person in a position

11:37

of power, especially if you've been there for

11:39

long enough and you might swing into that

11:42

top spot over all your players. But I

11:44

don't think that's the case in every situation

11:46

now, certainly. And I don't think that was

11:48

always the case even at some of these

11:50

big clubs in the past either. That's very

11:53

insightful stuff, Joe, just to let you know,

11:55

just to correct the correct the record. back

11:57

in time and took Sir Alex Ferguson's money

11:59

away back then so that doesn't count anymore

12:02

but did he did he take the TV

12:04

out of that room with him room as

12:06

well just I mean as well while you're

12:08

back there no harm doing that on his

12:11

travels why not he's he's literally taking his

12:13

money away at present right it didn't he

12:15

didn't he cut his like his ambassador as

12:17

ambassador yeah exactly he's doing it in the

12:20

present end of the past it all syns

12:22

up I almost wonder if that was Sir

12:24

Alex Ferguson Like, there's no way that could

12:26

happen today, right? Because then, like, if you

12:28

give Marcus Rashford what you're giving him, you

12:30

then have to give Sir Alex even more

12:33

money. I almost wonder if that's a way

12:35

to sort of cap salaries and make sure

12:37

that no player thinks they're bigger than the

12:39

club. I do think, as with anything, salaries

12:41

have evolved with inflation, with more money in

12:43

the game. And I think maybe the, if you

12:45

do have a manager who's making less than the

12:47

star player as Joe outline, there are multiple than

12:50

the star player as Joe outline, there are multiple.

12:52

Counter idea would be yes, but you're

12:54

a manager who can manage until you're 70

12:56

and so you have a longer window

12:58

Even if it's not with this club, you're

13:01

going to get a buyout, you'll probably

13:03

get another opportunity and you can kind

13:05

of continue to make money, whereas players

13:07

have that limited window in their prime

13:09

to really capitalize and make as much

13:11

money as they can. So maybe over the long

13:13

term, it somewhat balances out, though I'm not

13:15

sure that's case when we're getting to some

13:18

of the more well remunerated players that we

13:20

have around the world. One other thing I

13:22

did want to note from Peter's question, he

13:24

says in most industries, I would just point

13:26

out that though, the coach is the

13:28

boss of the team as they play,

13:30

the owner is probably the boss and

13:32

the owner is the one who makes

13:34

more money than everybody else. So in

13:36

that way, like what's the shack quote?

13:38

It's like, uh, like your... you're rich

13:40

when you cash your check but the

13:43

the person who signs the check is

13:45

wealthy and I think that the owners

13:47

are maybe like the ones who are

13:49

actually doing the best of everybody whereas

13:51

the managers are sort of bosses at

13:53

a level they're like the mid managers

13:55

in a weird sort of way if

13:57

you're going with a business analogy.

14:00

familiar with your game with the Shack or

14:02

how many courts does this guy have? Many. I

14:04

think that was Shack. I could be wrong but

14:06

I'm pretty sure it was him. Jack made all

14:08

his money in college right? That's my basic

14:10

reference to what I can give you. When

14:13

he was the volunteer sheriff I think is

14:15

when he made the largest. Very good.

14:17

Graham what did you find here? How

14:19

many how many managers are Chelsea currently

14:21

paying who get more than their players?

14:23

So they must be well they were previously

14:25

paying Pochitino they were playing paying Tuko and

14:27

they were paying Grim Potter so hey all

14:30

them are off the books now congratulations Chelsea

14:32

you did it and so I don't think

14:34

they're they're being anyone other than their their

14:36

current manager But I basically found the same

14:38

stuff that Taylor and Joe found was a

14:41

bit shocked at how much Michael Arteta is

14:43

getting from Arsenal like he's good coach, but

14:45

maybe not doesn't have the legacy achievement of

14:47

guys like clop and I think was getting

14:49

15 million the same from from from Liverpool

14:52

from Liverpool Hang on Graham, you've seen the

14:54

light bulb routine, right? You know what he's

14:56

capable of in the dressing room, don't you? I think

14:58

about 12 million of that 15 million is his

15:00

whiteboard drawing skills with the what was the one

15:02

with the heart and the brain and the passion

15:04

that was my that was my favorite one from

15:07

that documentary yeah he's a weird dude Michael Artetta

15:09

as all top managers are but I think there

15:11

was an inflection point about 10 to 15 years

15:13

ago where the top level managers started to earn

15:15

a lot more so I went back and somewhere

15:17

to Joe found it very difficult to find historical

15:20

data but I did find an article that said

15:22

Pepp at Barcelona was paid around eight million pounds

15:24

a year which is nice work if you can

15:26

get it but he's and paid like more than

15:28

double that. And then I think after that,

15:30

we kind of entered the age of the

15:33

Superstar manager with guys like Gardula and Clop

15:35

and Marino and Anchalote. And it's only really

15:37

now that I feel like we're coming out

15:39

of that with, clubs being forced to manage,

15:41

they're fast-tracking young managers because they've basically used

15:43

up all the Superstar managers like Chelsea is

15:45

a great example with Potter and Maresca. But

15:48

for a long time it was very much

15:50

the age of the Superstar manager and they

15:52

could command a lot more money. And the

15:54

manager that I think played a real role

15:56

in inflating in inflating those numbers in inflating

15:58

those numbers. Was it? Simeoni who

16:00

is still the third highest paid manager

16:02

in the world now he receives about

16:05

10 million pounds a season from Adletico

16:07

Madrid. But I remember for about six

16:09

to eight years Simeoni was by far

16:11

and away the highest paid manager in

16:13

world football and it was the reason

16:15

basically was never any chat about his

16:17

position at Leti they were happy with

16:19

him he was happy being rich or

16:21

wealthy by Taylor's definition and so he

16:24

set the benchmark and I think that

16:26

has then pushed up prices over that

16:28

period. I imagine you just went into

16:30

the negotiating room and they looked at

16:32

him and were just giving him what

16:34

he wants. Just write the chat yourself.

16:36

Very good. I'm now thinking about the

16:38

cadence of that joke and it might

16:41

be a Chris Rock joke about Shaquille

16:43

O'Neill, but maybe it's a combination of

16:45

the two. I could be wrong. Looking

16:47

historically, Brian Clough was paid $5,000 when

16:49

he was at Darby and then, guys,

16:51

he got a record sum when he

16:53

moved to leads of 15,000 a year.

16:55

Like, I don't know, I don't know

16:57

how you don't, like, buy a spaceship

17:00

with that, even if it was 1974.

17:02

How much of that did he get?

17:04

About a hundred pounds for the, what

17:06

was it, seven days that he did

17:08

that legitated? That apparently is about a

17:10

hundred thousand dollars in present day currency.

17:12

So. I'm going to say managers slightly

17:14

better paid than they were in the

17:16

70s and 80s. There you go. Luigi,

17:19

ain't coming for him on that money.

17:21

That's all we can say. Peter Shark,

17:23

thank you very much. Indeed, for your,

17:25

was that too dark? Peter, thank you

17:27

for your question. Let's go to another

17:29

one from JCO 54 who submitted this

17:31

on our discord. I was listening to

17:33

the audio version of the Leeds Norwich

17:35

game today and was curious. radio announcements

17:38

or radio calls for certain teams. I

17:40

do know, Taylor, that a series XMFC

17:42

has lots of radio calls, including for

17:44

leagues, including Syria and many others, where

17:46

they'll sometimes take the TV broadcast, where

17:48

I have sometimes had their own broadcasters

17:50

on there as well. In the UK,

17:52

one of the biggest... is obviously Five

17:54

Live, BBC Radio Five Live, which carries

17:57

commentary on the weekends, which I cannot

17:59

get unless you use a VPN over

18:01

here. It blocks you out for listening

18:03

to that, which is fun. But growing

18:05

up, I'll try to think of any

18:07

sort of iconic radio announces. I don't

18:09

think, Taylor, it's quite. the same as

18:11

it might be here, the celebrity level

18:13

of radio announcements, if that makes sense,

18:16

but the one that stuck in my

18:18

mind when I were allowed on AM

18:20

radio. There's a thing called AM Radio,

18:22

Joe, I used to listen to, I

18:24

used to listen to, I used to

18:26

listen to, I used to listen to,

18:28

in the past. I feel like that's

18:30

in Tyro section, or is that, is

18:32

that something different? J.P. The big man.

18:35

Jonathan Pierce was the the the the

18:37

face of radio. He was that Maybe

18:39

he still is he obviously moved into

18:41

TV later and you'll see him these

18:43

days doing TV commentary to various levels

18:45

Okay, okay. Okay. Not that Jonathan Pierce

18:47

when you said he moved into TV

18:49

I was like wait like the one

18:51

from Game of Thrones. Okay, now But

18:54

yeah, more famously on robot wars. I'm

18:56

also thinking of Jonathan Price, so I

18:58

apologize. Not the, uh, the Mason, he

19:00

wasn't the most. Yes, he was the,

19:02

the Spero, yeah, the High Spero. Yeah,

19:04

there you go. Thank you. But he

19:06

was the only one Taylor that came

19:08

to mind, Jonathan Pierce, so you may

19:10

know, as he from, from, from TV

19:13

these days, but he was very much

19:15

the radio celebrity in that London in

19:17

which I grew up. It does seem

19:19

like a thing that was maybe more

19:21

widespread and more beloved, like obviously before

19:23

we had live broadcasts, before we had

19:25

as many live broadcasts as we do,

19:27

it was the easier way to kind

19:29

of follow along with your club, especially

19:32

when they were on the road, and

19:34

still exists, as Ryan has already outlined.

19:36

The one that in my research seemed

19:38

to be a somewhat beloved figure, is

19:40

Alan Green? Is that fair to say?

19:42

Or is he last one of my

19:44

list? on YouTube. Maybe it's the best

19:46

of but him Trashing an Everton Lester

19:49

game is hysterically funny and I do

19:51

think radio Maybe has a bit more

19:53

license because you've got to fill more

19:55

time and you've got to paint a

19:57

picture I think they're they have an

19:59

opportunity to talk about more different things

20:01

and in this one It's like a

20:03

New Year's Day game and so they're

20:05

kind of maybe suggesting that the players

20:08

might be slightly hung over and they're

20:10

just getting increasingly annoyed with how bad

20:12

the performances And I don't think you

20:14

really ever get that from TV commentators.

20:16

Maybe you'll get sort of slight comments

20:18

or slight digs, but you don't get

20:20

just an ongoing like, this has been

20:22

absolute rubbish, which is what you do

20:24

get in that one. And so I

20:27

think radio maybe can be a little

20:29

bit more lively, can be a little

20:31

bit more fun sometimes than TV commentary,

20:33

and that was my experience in 2010.

20:35

For the 2010 World Cup, I was

20:37

still working a nine to five job

20:39

at that point. and amazingly commuting from

20:41

Richmond to Washington and back every single

20:43

morning. It was a very fun time.

20:46

And I would listen to ESBN's radio

20:48

coverage of the 2010 World Cup games.

20:50

And that was a really interesting way

20:52

to follow along, even if it meant

20:54

that you were hearing constant droning of

20:56

vuvuzela's in the background, because you can't

20:58

really drown that one out. Yeah, I

21:00

love listening to matches on the radio.

21:02

I think there's a magic to it.

21:05

I mean, I would never choose to

21:07

do it if I had to do

21:09

it if I had access to a

21:11

had access to a access to a

21:13

TV. Taylor when you're committing to your

21:15

job. I'll listen to a game on

21:17

the radio and I will very frequently

21:19

listen to a game on a Saturday.

21:21

If I'm driving to Sterling Albion Match,

21:24

if it's a longest journey, I'll stick

21:26

a game on on 5 Live, which

21:28

is kind of like the, if you're

21:30

looking for a live game in the

21:32

UK, that's kind of like where you're

21:34

going to Pierce and Alan Green and

21:36

Connor McNamara and Ian Dennis. These are

21:38

all guys that I've kind of grown

21:40

up with listening to, and I've grown

21:43

up with listening to. is actually going

21:45

because the number of times I'll listen

21:47

to a game on the radio and

21:49

I'll be like wow this is the

21:51

most exciting game that's ever happened I

21:53

cannot wait to watch the high nothing

21:55

actually happens in the game. But that's

21:57

kind of where the entertainment factor from

21:59

radio matches come from, I think. So

22:02

listen to more Uvey matches? Is that

22:04

what you're saying? That's the solution. Yeah.

22:06

There are Uvey fans who have only

22:08

listened to their team on radio this

22:10

season who think this is a vintage

22:12

season. Well, I tell you, that was

22:14

excellent. That was so good. Thank you.

22:16

Yeah. Joe, there was a time when

22:18

I was young once again to make

22:21

me sound incredibly old. We at home

22:23

on a Saturday would listen to AM

22:25

Radio of Soccer Commentary while watching something

22:27

called Teletext, which I don't even think

22:29

existed in the US. Oh, wow. I

22:31

used to do that as well. Yeah.

22:33

So Teletext is like, well, how do

22:35

you describe Teletext Graham? It's like an

22:37

old school video game. but with football

22:40

scores. It's the best way I can

22:42

see it. I don't think it was

22:44

ever in the States. Ryan, was it

22:46

weird at that time when you looked

22:48

all around you and everything was in

22:50

black and white? Or was that? Okay,

22:52

I didn't know if you got used

22:54

to that or how quickly that's. Page

22:56

three or two, Ryan, on television. That

22:59

was the one. Yeah! I used to

23:01

go and change the hairline every day

23:03

on it. Yeah, I love a three-o-two.

23:05

I was more about three-o-one guy. Oh,

23:07

yeah. Three-o-one was general sport, John, and

23:09

three-one sex was just the pure scores,

23:11

I think, for killing next. Understand that

23:13

we have no idea what you're talking

23:16

about, right? This is so relatable, isn't

23:18

it? What is page three-o-two? They already

23:20

said it's like a page they just

23:22

scroll scores on the TV it was

23:24

like it was like a very early

23:26

version of the internet but like they

23:28

also had it when the internet existed

23:30

but I would sit in front of

23:32

the TV and just refresh the same

23:35

page over and over again I told

23:37

the scores changed on the television yes

23:39

on the television that's what's throwing me

23:41

it it's hilarious to do that for

23:43

soccer where you could be sitting there

23:45

well then Ryan would also Ryan would

23:47

also have the 22 accumulated servants out

23:49

the radio broadcast for him and that

23:51

was how he would know what was

23:54

happening in the game. So that was,

23:56

Ryan kind of got the best of

23:58

a couple different worlds. If you could

24:00

think of a different way, a better

24:02

way of watching soccer, I'd like to

24:04

hear it, frankly, Taylor. That's also how

24:06

you played chess, right? Back in the

24:08

pre-inductual revolution when I grew up, that

24:10

was how we did it. Thank you

24:13

very much. Joe, the hardship that we

24:15

used to go through as soccer fans,

24:17

you'll never know much about it. There you

24:19

go. You. You kids Joe with your Pac-Man

24:21

video games and your fancy new things. JCO

24:23

54, thank you very much indeed for your

24:25

question. We're going to take a quick break

24:27

and hopefully settle down a little bit when

24:30

we come back talking about Naomi Gerber's record

24:32

transfer and much more, join us then. Today's

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28:19

Total Soccer Show, welcome back to our listener

28:22

questions. Discord Stu has been in touch with

28:24

this one. Does Naomi Girma's record 1.1 million

28:26

dollar transfer to Chelsea say something about the

28:28

women's game from a tactical perspective since she's

28:31

a defender? Or is it more about the

28:33

chance and the timing and the larger push

28:35

for investment in the women's? Joe, is this

28:37

like a reverse MLS 1.0 going big on

28:40

defense? Is this a new thing for women's

28:42

soccer or is it just that she's a

28:44

really good player and this was the right

28:47

time to spend that right amount of money

28:49

on her? I think much more the second.

28:51

I think this really says two main things.

28:53

It says, Naomi German is unreal and might

28:56

be the most impactful player in the world

28:58

or certainly one of the most impactful players

29:00

in the world and she peaked at the

29:03

right time. right when teams are ready to

29:05

finally start throwing around seven figures to sign

29:07

players or for transfer fees to break them

29:09

from their existing contract to send them to

29:12

a new one right that's that's a transfer

29:14

fees work there is absolutely an element of

29:16

timing here in terms of the first point

29:18

there about grandma being really good i'm guessing

29:21

listeners of the show already already know that

29:23

but we've seen it just in so many

29:25

different ways she's been unbelievably good for a

29:28

successful and a BSL team she's been elite

29:30

for the bad version of the US under

29:32

Black Odenovsky she was the standout player at

29:34

that Cup by a country mile and Emma

29:37

Hayes is calling her the best defender in

29:39

the world because she is the best defender

29:41

in the world and she's shown that for

29:44

a very competent and excellent version of the

29:46

United States that we're seeing right now. She

29:48

has the ability to impact I think any

29:50

team on the planet in a major way

29:53

because she is so versatile tactically. She can

29:55

do so many things. She's good in possession.

29:57

She's good defensively. She's not perfect. Michael Cox

29:59

had a piece about Naomi Gerber and this

30:02

transfer, incited how she wasn't the best in

30:04

the air, and I think that's true. But

30:06

really, when we think about her as a

30:09

defender, she is so versatile and so skilled,

30:11

and she's shown that in so many different

30:13

contexts, that it's no surprise to see someone

30:15

come in for a big fee in this

30:18

case. I think about... I think about timing

30:20

here, of course, as well. And I also

30:22

think about a comparison to the men's game,

30:25

which I know we try not to do,

30:27

but I think when we're talking about transfers

30:29

and the evolution of how this sport is

30:31

progressing, I think it's fair. And I think

30:34

about Virgil Van Dyke here. When he moved

30:36

to Liverpool, yeah, he was the most expensive

30:38

defender ever. He was also the ninth most

30:40

expensive player ever, period. In soccer. And this

30:43

flows right into that second point about timing,

30:45

right where her peak Naomi grandma. has coincided

30:47

with the development of the women's game, where

30:50

teams are now willing to spend more of

30:52

that money. Germa is Virgil Van Dyke, but

30:54

for a women's soccer land, probably maybe even

30:56

more dominant, the Virgil Van Dyke. Again, I'm

30:59

not trying to do the tired men's women's

31:01

comparison thing here, but I do think there's

31:03

some fruit here to be gathered. Germa is

31:05

that kind of player, but for a women's

31:08

soccer landscape that hasn't been throwing huge money

31:10

around long enough. to have all the players

31:12

above Virgil Van Dyke on the men's list.

31:15

Like, Philippe Catino is on that list. Women's

31:17

soccer hasn't been spending money long enough to

31:19

mess up like that, right? Him going to

31:21

Barcelona or Dambele going to Barcelona. This hasn't

31:24

been happening long enough in the women's game.

31:26

And you can talk about the reasons why

31:28

that is and the flaws and problems with

31:31

that. And the fact that this should have

31:33

been happening sooner, but the reality go. is

31:35

there's also a sense that transfer fees are

31:37

not really ever a great way to assess

31:40

the pure value of a player. I think

31:42

it's important to note that some of the

31:44

other true difference makers in global soccer play

31:46

may be a little higher up the field.

31:49

I think about Bonmati and Alexi Puteos, they've

31:51

just stayed at their clubs. And there's a

31:53

lot of contracts that tend to be quite

31:56

shorter in the women's game because teams have

31:58

been hesitant to commit financially, two players over

32:00

a longer period of time. And so then

32:02

transfer fees tend to be lower, because if

32:05

you're going after someone who's only got one

32:07

year left on their contract at their existing

32:09

club, you might just wait a year for

32:12

them to be out of contract and go

32:14

negotiate with the player directly instead of having

32:16

to pay a transfer fee to their club.

32:18

In this case, Germa's contract was long enough

32:21

and Chelsea were desperate enough and keen enough

32:23

on her as a player. That they wanted

32:25

to send that money to San Diego to

32:27

get the right to sign her, but the

32:30

right to sign her. I'm guessing we would

32:32

have seen this kind of money tossed around

32:34

for an attacker before we saw it tossed

32:37

around for a defender. I think those are

32:39

all very very good points Joe especially that

32:41

last one to go back to the Michael

32:43

Cox piece for a moment because I think

32:46

he did a really good job of outlining

32:48

some of the underlying aspects of this transfer

32:50

starting with the idea that like yes she

32:53

is not as strong in the air he

32:55

makes that point as you said he then

32:57

notes that there are only around 75% as

32:59

many aerial battles as many aerial At least

33:02

some of that is likely due to, they

33:04

go as a University of Glasgow study, that

33:06

women and girls are significantly more likely to

33:08

get concussions and head injuries from heading the

33:11

ball and attempting aerial challenges. They could do

33:13

a study like that in the second city.

33:15

I didn't know. I didn't know they had

33:18

enough. But they didn't take that in the

33:20

middle. And that's mental power. Well, they wanted

33:22

to go somewhere where there were a lot

33:24

of head injuries. So, so, so on that

33:27

note, so then I think that speaks to

33:29

maybe where the US to go back to

33:31

when they were kind of disastrous under Vlatka.

33:34

Joe Joe, there was still that reliance on

33:36

physicality and physically overpowering your opposition and being

33:38

more physically fit and that's the thing that

33:40

the U.S. women's team has done for so

33:43

long and then maybe they come up against

33:45

a scenario in which that doesn't really work

33:47

anymore and European teams have moved ahead and

33:49

are more tactically adept and are trying different

33:52

things and the U.S. has had to catch

33:54

up. And so to your point about timing,

33:56

it feels like Naomi Gherma is representative of

33:59

that shift though she is a key part

34:01

of that team and keeps I think three

34:03

clean sheets in that tournament. There's an idea

34:05

that she is both capable of being physical,

34:08

but also very good very good at reading

34:10

the game very good in possession and can

34:12

do many different things and so can be

34:14

a next level defender Moving to a European

34:17

club where there is more of an inclination

34:19

to spend big money as you've already outlined

34:21

there Joe like and a lot of those

34:24

transfers. I think did you already go through

34:26

the numbers that he cited? No. No. Go

34:28

for it. 10 of the 50 most expensive

34:30

transfers in the women's game involved offenders compared

34:33

to just six of the top 50 in

34:35

the men's game. There is more of an

34:37

inclination to spend money on a player that

34:40

I think can do different things for your

34:42

club and can potentially be around. Yeah. Longer

34:44

you want to lock that down and then

34:46

hopefully they stay with you and you don't

34:49

have to spend that money again and I

34:51

think that's something Chelsea might be eyeing here.

34:53

Yeah, it's all this is fascinating to me

34:55

and I just keep coming back to this

34:58

concept of does this mean something greater for

35:00

the women's game? And I kind of felt

35:02

like that's where Cox was trying to go

35:05

in that piece and I love Michael Cox's

35:07

work. I really do. I'm not really buying

35:09

it to be honest like I don't think

35:11

this is Attackers are worth more than defenders

35:14

like he opens that piece with a quote

35:16

about Beckenbower is like, you know, get up

35:18

front, we don't pay defenders for a defender.

35:21

Obviously that does happen because we're seeing a

35:23

million plus being spent on the defender. I

35:25

just don't think you can find all things

35:27

being equal Like a sporting director who's going

35:30

to recommend that they go out there and

35:32

spend this kind of money on a defender

35:34

If they're building a squad from scratch versus

35:36

an attacker like attacking is harder than defending

35:39

defending you can do more as a structural

35:41

entity as an entire team with all the

35:43

outfield players. Attacking is the hardest thing to

35:46

do in this sport. Like scoring goals is

35:48

the hardest thing to do in this sport,

35:50

not stopping goals. Just from a structural perspective

35:52

of how this game works. I don't think

35:55

this means something larger for the tactical side

35:57

of the women's game, although again, I do

35:59

think it very much is a sign that

36:02

more and more investment is coming into women's

36:04

soccer, which is a surprise to no one.

36:06

Yeah to that point Joe it would be

36:08

good to have a comparison with Trinity Rodman

36:11

if a deal happens there. There's a bit

36:13

of speculation that both Arsenal and Chelsea are

36:15

interested in her. I think her contract is

36:17

the same has the same length to go

36:20

on it as Burma's did with San Diego

36:22

so that that would be a direct comparison

36:24

there. And it would be interesting because Trinity

36:27

Rodman were to go for... less than Naomi

36:29

Garma, then maybe that would signal some kind

36:31

of some sort of shift, but I have

36:33

to imagine, particularly if it's Arsenal. Arsenal will

36:36

want to respond to Chelsea getting Naomi Garma,

36:38

and so I have to imagine they're plotting

36:40

a big transfer of their own, and it

36:43

could be Trinity Rodman, they splashed the cash

36:45

on. One more question for me. Do you

36:47

all feel like there's a chance that this

36:49

is, I forget, do you all know off

36:52

the top of your head, who was the

36:54

first million pound player, who was the 1

36:56

million pound player on the 1 million pound

36:58

player on the men player on the men's

37:01

on the men's on the men's, who, who,

37:03

who, who was the men's, who, who, who

37:05

was the first, who, who was the first,

37:08

who was the first, who was the first,

37:10

who was the first, who was the first,

37:12

who was the first, who was the first,

37:14

who was the first, who was the first,

37:17

who was the first million pound player, who

37:19

No, while you all look it up. I

37:21

remember that I remember that I remember that

37:23

I remember that I remember that being a

37:26

sort of like like a ceiling you're not

37:28

going to break like we're not going to

37:30

go above a million and so everybody was

37:33

kind of flirting with that number and then

37:35

they did and then it kind of Catapults

37:37

tremendously from there and now we have the

37:39

numbers that we have today Yeah, I think

37:42

so although I I'd be hesitant to say

37:44

that it's just because you get over the

37:46

$1 million mark. I think that is like

37:49

a real ceiling in some people's minds. But

37:51

money's just coming. Like money's coming regardless. And

37:53

I think if Gormra had gone for $999,000.

37:55

somebody was still going to come in five

37:58

years time and pay three million plus or

38:00

a player. Like I think that money is

38:02

coming regardless. Maybe that doesn't answer your question?

38:04

No, no, it does. It does. It does.

38:07

And you're totally right. I think what I'm

38:09

looking at more so is like if you're

38:11

a club contemplating doing that and you know

38:14

it's going to be the first million pound

38:16

player in the women's game, like... there's maybe

38:18

an awareness of do I want to like is this the right

38:20

player for that? Naomi German I would say is the right player

38:22

for that and I think now that it's happened it can happen

38:24

more often and it's less of a maybe headline grabber you're gonna

38:26

get less spotlight on you it's gonna be less of an embarrassing

38:28

moment if it doesn't work out is I guess what I mean

38:30

but who knows if that's true but I think it opens and

38:33

it opens possibilities so I'm excited to see what happens next. And

38:35

I love that point Taylor about well we want to make sure

38:37

we want to make sure we want to make sure we want

38:39

to make sure we get this point Taylor about well we want

38:41

to make sure we want to make sure we get this I

38:43

think there's lots of teams that would

38:45

be more than happy even to get

38:47

the signing wrong, but to get the

38:49

publicity that comes from making the signing

38:52

in the first place. At the same time,

38:54

I do think you're right. Of course,

38:56

Chelsea want to get the signing right. And

38:58

to circle all the way back to how

39:00

good Naomi Girma is. There is a zero

39:02

percent chance that this does not work

39:04

out for them. Because Naomi Girma is

39:06

like a sure thing. She is the

39:08

the sure thing in this sport. She

39:10

is unbelievably good. I'm crazy bummed that she's

39:12

not going to be in the end of

39:15

BSO anymore. And that is absolutely,

39:17

as Graham said, something to monitor moving

39:19

forward. It's a concern. Maybe we will

39:21

have already talked about that earlier this

39:23

week, depending on other shows and the

39:26

schedules. But yeah, that really stinks for

39:28

me, selfishly. But good for Naomi Germa

39:30

getting her bag and she's going to

39:32

be a rock star for Chelsea. Indeed,

39:35

Discord Stu. Thanks to you for that

39:37

question. We go now to Michelle S,

39:39

who says the new story about Lazio's

39:41

Eagle handler being fired. Didn't catch that

39:43

one, we'll have to review that one

39:45

shortly. That reminded me of how many

39:47

clubs seem to have far-right altars. Are

39:49

there many clubs with left-wing altars? I

39:51

was happy about St. Pauli's promotion because

39:53

of their culture and would love to

39:55

learn about more clubs with politics. I

39:57

can be proud to support, says Michelle.

39:59

L. S. Graham, I think there's

40:02

a few. that stand out to me

40:04

in my mind Celtic I think have

40:06

a left-wing element and if I'm not

40:09

mistaken and I think Livorno this is

40:11

this is classic Ryan or Graham wrote

40:13

this list for Bleach report back in

40:15

the day territory I think so that's

40:18

what sticks out from writing those two

40:20

clubs there must be more though right?

40:22

Yeah there there are a good number

40:25

of ultra groups who are taking back

40:27

the noble trade of hooliganism for the

40:29

left wing and Celtic are definitely one

40:31

of them. for Celtic and they are

40:34

very much left wing and Celtic

40:36

as a whole liens left because

40:38

of their links to Irish republicanism

40:40

in their kind of origin story

40:42

as a club and then you're

40:44

right Ryan Livorno was another example

40:46

that had on my list when

40:48

Palodicano did the fascist salute or

40:50

whatever we're calling it the Roman

40:52

salute or the Nazi salute all

40:54

are applicable. The musk salute now.

40:56

That was in a match against

40:58

Livorno which felt... pointed. So they

41:00

are a club with strong links to

41:03

the left wing. IKE Athens, I found

41:05

out and researching this question, have left

41:07

leaning altres and they have a group

41:09

called the original 21, an altres group,

41:11

very much left wing. Rio Valicano, I

41:13

knew about that one already in Spanish

41:16

football and La Liga, their fans are

41:18

known for having supporters and altres that

41:20

engage in left wing activism as well.

41:22

And then I would also put forward

41:24

the the Portland timbers who obviously had

41:27

a conflict with the league over the

41:29

Iron Front symbol. I remember writing about

41:31

that for the Guardian and are

41:33

generally anti-fascist and anti-hate as a

41:35

fan base as well. So those

41:37

are some nominations. There you go. Taylor

41:39

any more to add to the list

41:41

there, sir? Yeah, from a personal note,

41:43

there's two in Turkey. Charsha, which is

41:45

the main supporters group of Beshiktash, if

41:47

you look them up, their symbol is

41:49

the anarchist logo. They are definitely left

41:52

wing and more a club of like

41:54

the people in the working class at

41:56

Istanbul. Galtasrai are not, but they have

41:58

Tekyam Rook, which is the communist... supporters

42:00

association of Galatasaray. So I think a

42:02

lot of clubs in Turkey, but I

42:04

think also like in Eastern Europe as

42:06

well you get sort of fragmented groups

42:09

in which you have maybe a larger

42:11

supporter section but then little ones that

42:13

are maybe more reflective of different ideologies.

42:15

Greece I think is another example where

42:18

you have a lot of sort of

42:20

ultra-left Antifa groups that are maybe smaller

42:22

supporters groups within a larger sort of

42:24

framework of supporters. So I think you

42:26

get them all over the place. I

42:29

think they tend to be more limited

42:31

in their numbers, maybe maybe with like

42:33

Celtic as the opposite example of that.

42:35

I think the interesting one is how

42:37

you don't get as many sort of

42:40

clubs outwardly acknowledging an ideology. I think

42:42

that's something where maybe you'll get clubs

42:44

that are more inclined to be overtly

42:46

right wing. I don't think you get

42:49

that as much with clubs who are

42:51

like overtly left wing. St. Pauli would

42:53

be the prime example of that. Maybe

42:55

Celtic to some extent. I think Liverpool

42:57

historically because of the kind of working

43:00

class and anti Tory politics were maybe

43:02

that, but I think increasingly in the

43:04

modern era clubs don't really want to

43:06

take a stance one way or the

43:08

other because it alienates one half of

43:11

the fan. potentially. Yes, indeed. Joe, any

43:13

more to add his list? I think

43:15

maybe Union Berlin, I was thinking maybe

43:17

possibly, but uh... They're not on my

43:20

list, but that could absolutely be. I

43:22

didn't know a ton about Celtic coming

43:24

into this. I had this on my

43:26

list to ask Graham more about Celtic,

43:28

and he's already shared some there. I

43:31

also had Portland in Seattle, both on

43:33

my list from an MLS perspective. There

43:35

are plenty of these, and I think

43:37

it's not fairly easy, I guess, I

43:39

guess. We did indeed. Michelle S. I

43:42

hope that's helpful. Thank you very much.

43:44

Indeed for your question. One more quick

43:46

break when we come back. We're talking

43:48

about local versus foreign supporters and we're

43:51

getting to the most important question of

43:53

this episode. Our favorite goal songs. They're

43:55

coming. Stick with us. This episode is

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47:20

Total Soccer Show, welcome back to our

47:22

listener questions. Jacob Court comes in with

47:25

this one. What would be the one

47:27

thing you would want all local supporters

47:29

to know about foreign supporters and vice

47:32

versa? i.e. what goes into supporting a

47:34

club in different parts of the world,

47:36

the culture of each group, and the

47:39

things that the other may not think

47:41

about the other and so on, says

47:43

Jacob. This is a very interesting question

47:45

because of obviously the way the game

47:48

has changed and the last... decade or

47:50

so. Graham, I think if I was

47:52

speaking to a local fan as a

47:55

foreign fan, I think maybe I'm relatively

47:57

uniquely positioned for my club. I was

47:59

a local fan, now I've become a

48:02

foreign fan, and I suppose I have

48:04

a local team here as well, where

48:06

I am now. But maybe there's a

48:08

snobbishness among local fans towards foreign fans

48:11

occasionally. And maybe it's definitely a thing.

48:13

Definitely, right? And maybe there should be

48:15

an awareness that like the foreign fans,

48:18

as we've covered previously on the

48:20

feed, are the ones that the teams are courting

48:22

these days. They're the ones who are paying

48:24

a lot of bills. Not all of the

48:26

bills, but they are the ones, like the

48:28

local area is saturated. They know about you.

48:30

the clubs are actively trying to get to

48:32

actively trying to get to the foreign fans

48:34

as well so they are a very very

48:36

important part of the ecosystem of any club

48:39

these days yeah and I do think some

48:41

local fans not all local fans but some

48:43

underestimate how difficult it can be to follow

48:45

a team from the other side of the

48:47

world so there will be primary league fans

48:49

in California who have to wake up at

48:51

the crack of dawn to watch the team on

48:53

a Saturday and some of those fans will travel

48:56

halfway across the world to go to a game

48:58

and then they get mocked for not being local

49:00

fans when the local fans have rolled out of

49:02

bed and into their seat at the stadium. So,

49:05

you know, that's not me saying that local routes

49:07

and communities don't matter to clubs. I think listeners

49:09

know enough about me at this point to know

49:11

I think that's very important, but I also think

49:14

some local fans should do better to understand that

49:16

foreign fans also care about their club and that

49:18

can be genuine as well. It just manifests itself

49:20

in a different way. Yeah, definitely. Taylor,

49:23

does that echo with your feeling? Yeah,

49:25

absolutely. I think the isolation of the

49:27

foreign fan is one that I think

49:29

is worth sort of spotlighting. That

49:32

like, especially... when you didn't get

49:34

as many games on TV or when

49:36

you had five different providers broadcasting games

49:38

like it was just harder to watch

49:40

and so like and it was harder

49:42

to have conversations about it was harder

49:44

to engage in discourse you just didn't

49:46

have as much access to information so

49:48

you ended up kind of existing in

49:50

a vacuum or existing in a very

49:52

small community of your friends or neighbors

49:54

or work colleagues who also happened to

49:56

like soccer generally or maybe that club

49:59

in particular and so A lot of times

50:01

I think it's mocked for being glory

50:03

hunters, but like pretty often it's like

50:05

that's because that's what was on television

50:07

here. That's what we were able to

50:09

watch. That was the only access we

50:11

had. I think that's changed over time.

50:13

But I still think the isolation, the

50:15

waking up early, I think that is

50:17

still a thing that maybe local fans

50:19

might not understand as much. On the

50:21

flip side, I think I would want

50:23

like... foreign viewers and supporters to understand

50:25

how important local supporters are. Like so

50:27

often a game is made by the

50:29

atmosphere and by the supporters being into

50:31

the game and the culture that's created.

50:33

That Adletico game against Leverkuesen last week

50:35

in the Champions League was so much

50:37

fun because the crowd was so into

50:39

it and was so up for it

50:41

and cheered every single moment, every single

50:43

clearance, every single challenge and it creates

50:45

such a level of atmosphere that doesn't

50:47

exist without them. And I think that's

50:49

such an important aspect of football, even

50:51

in the modern age, that you have

50:53

those local supporters continue to be there

50:55

because they care so much. And that's

50:57

the other thing that I think is

50:59

worth acknowledging there is how baked into

51:01

life it is when you are a

51:03

local supporter. You know the result, you're

51:05

living the result when you wake up

51:07

the next morning and go to school

51:09

and get made fun of by your

51:11

friends. You. Know when you go into

51:13

the shop where you know that like

51:15

oh this guy's a Liverpool supporter I'm

51:17

gonna hear about it or this guy's

51:19

a Chelsea supporter I'm gonna hear about

51:21

it like you're it's just going to

51:23

be so much more part of everyday

51:25

life that it's going to be a

51:27

more stressful thing I think about that

51:29

with most sports when if you're living

51:32

in a city when they lose I

51:34

think it impacts the vibe of the

51:36

city if you're not living in that

51:38

city you go on about your day

51:40

and I think that is the kind

51:42

of contrast of contrast of the two.

51:44

as much as I said that clubs

51:46

caught foreign fans. They are the lifeblood.

51:48

There's a reason why Manny and I

51:50

want to build a bigger stadium to

51:52

have more people in it because match

51:54

day revenue is very important. And they

51:56

like more money and creating a greater

51:58

atmosphere that in theory is will be

52:00

done with the bigger stadium as well.

52:02

And Joe, I suppose if I was

52:04

going to be talking to a local

52:06

fan from a foreign fan from a

52:08

foreign fan perspective, I think I'd also...

52:10

It's culturally in Europe, I come from

52:12

the philosophy where a club is very

52:14

inextricably tied to its community and the

52:16

club is owned by its community. My

52:18

philosophy is that a team isn't owned

52:20

by the guy who signs the checks

52:22

at the very top who it gets

52:24

the expensive manager and it's owned by

52:26

the people. that's kind of how I

52:28

would approach a team. And that's not

52:30

the US way of looking at things

52:32

where a Super Bowl will have the

52:34

owner on the field being celebrated. That's

52:36

not really culturally something that's done elsewhere

52:38

in the world. So maybe it's just

52:40

a cultural difference there. But I think

52:42

that the importance of the local community

52:44

as we've already stressed is. is vital.

52:46

Yeah, 100%. I'll be honest, my American

52:48

brain cannot even comprehend most of what

52:50

you just said. Like that actually truly

52:52

just does not click in my brain

52:54

whatsoever. What I will say is I'm

52:56

totally with you where you ended though.

52:58

When thinking about local support, the thing

53:00

that I would communicate to foreign supporters

53:02

about local supporters and about supporting a

53:04

local club is that it's awesome to

53:06

do that. It's so much fun to

53:08

support your local club. And more people

53:10

in the US should do that in

53:12

my mind. It's not. It's not just

53:14

about the quality of the game. That

53:16

matters. I like watching good soccer. Don't

53:19

get me wrong. But it is, as

53:21

you're saying, Ryan, also about the community

53:23

and increasingly in the US there are

53:25

more and more communities with access to

53:27

professional soccer and even high level amateur

53:29

soccer in the United States. Those teams

53:31

would love your support. So I don't

53:33

know, absolutely wake up early on a

53:35

Saturday morning and watch the Premier League

53:37

if that's what you want to do.

53:39

No doubt about that, that is fun.

53:41

I enjoy. go see what soccer's next

53:43

to you because I think there's a

53:45

darn good chance you're gonna have more

53:47

fun doing that anyway. Yeah and if

53:49

you're a local fan I think just

53:51

naturally you're gonna care about more than

53:53

just the actual soccer on the pitch.

53:55

At least half my energy as an

53:57

album fan is expended on non-football things

53:59

like the cleanliness of the stadium or

54:01

the price of tickets or whether there's

54:03

a team bust in a way game

54:05

or like I sent an email to

54:07

the club. at the start of the

54:09

season about the social media output and

54:11

stuff like that and just generally boring

54:13

on the ground stuff that is more

54:15

difficult to be exposed to if you're

54:17

watching games from the other side of

54:19

the planet and I actually don't care

54:21

that much about winning which is just

54:23

as well for a fourth year Scottish

54:25

football club but I care much more

54:27

about the general health of the club

54:29

and I'm not saying foreign fans don't

54:31

care about that either but I think

54:33

you're maybe exposed to that on the

54:35

ground stuff in a more real way

54:37

if you're a few of your local

54:39

fan. Does that comment I made Graham

54:41

about the people owning the club rather

54:43

than the actual? No, I would agree.

54:45

Does that resonate? Yeah, resonates with me.

54:47

Legally, you're completely wrong. We're both completely

54:49

wrong. Romantically, yes, I would agree with

54:51

that. It feels, yeah, maybe it's just

54:53

a too romantic a notion, but that's

54:55

certainly the way I feel about soccer

54:57

and so you should if you're a

54:59

part of a community because that club

55:01

wouldn't exist without the local community and

55:03

that's true of any club of any

55:05

size. Jacob, thank you very much indeed

55:08

for your question. One final one from

55:10

Texas Hoosier on Discord. In hockey, did

55:12

I say it wrong? Is Hoosier? That

55:14

sounds like a challenge. You couldn't have

55:16

said that in any more British way

55:18

than you did. Do it in the

55:20

Mako Kea, actually. Well, they're simple. Hoosia.

55:22

There we are. Texas Hoosia has been

55:24

in charge with this one. In hockey,

55:26

most teams have a goal song that's

55:28

played in the arena when the home

55:30

team scores. What would the goal song

55:32

be for your favorite soccer club? says,

55:34

Texas Hoosia. Now, Taylor. Leicester I believe

55:36

famously have had several goal songs. There's

55:38

two that I know the stick in

55:40

my mind. Well they have the worst

55:42

one at the moment. Everything of the

55:44

same one? Well there's two that I

55:46

know, when they won the Premier League

55:48

I'm pretty sure it was Chelsea dagger

55:50

by the Fratellis which I think has

55:52

been used in hockey as well. Which

55:54

I think is used by quite a

55:56

lot of teams. I remember I was

55:58

at Birmingham City and they played that

56:00

there at St. Andrew's as well. But

56:02

grand the other one I think is

56:04

from local Leicester band, Kasabian, who have

56:06

a song called Fire, which they were,

56:08

I think they've been playing as well.

56:10

So most recently, I know exactly what

56:12

Leicester have been using most recently. I'm

56:14

not denying that they probably did use

56:16

a Kasabian song at some point in

56:18

the past, but the last couple seasons

56:20

or the last two or three seasons,

56:22

they've used that... and I hate that

56:24

it's the worst goal music in the

56:26

entire primary league so when Texas Hoosier

56:28

was saying I misread the question initially

56:30

and I thought he was saying that's

56:32

actually what they play and that's what

56:34

they like I couldn't have disagreed more

56:36

but then I realized that they're suggesting

56:38

an alternative so I'd be very much

56:40

on board with Fox on the run

56:42

by suite for lesser city because honestly

56:44

it It puts me off watching Leicester

56:46

City Games. Not that they score many

56:48

goals, but that goal music is just

56:50

horrific. I think, yeah, not every team

56:52

does it, right? Taylor, like a lot

56:55

of teams do the goal song, a

56:57

lot of teams don't. I remember back

56:59

in a day, Wimbledon, maybe we didn't

57:01

have the biggest crowds, we used to

57:03

play Danbusters, I don't know if you

57:05

know, like a kind of... I feel

57:07

like this was a good attempt by

57:09

Texas Hoosier to make us all have

57:11

to like awkwardly do these noises to

57:13

make the songs sound. Should we agree

57:15

to that? You and I just not

57:17

to do that? I'm open to making

57:19

it and I won't be doing that.

57:21

Don't you worry about it. But I

57:23

do love knowing now how to annoy

57:25

Graham immediately by playing the song that

57:27

he hates. My question to throw back

57:29

to you Ryan, you Graham. Is this

57:31

a more modern thing? Is this a

57:33

thing? like researching this one it feels

57:35

like a lot of the responses are

57:37

very this is dumb American sports mentality

57:39

coming home to Europe basically would you

57:41

all agree with that is that a

57:43

thing that comes from American sports or

57:45

has it existed for more time than

57:47

that? I don't remember when I was

57:49

a kid when I was a kid

57:51

I couldn't really you probably could tell

57:53

me more about whether that's come from

57:55

American sports like how far back that

57:57

goes but I think that's a last

57:59

10 years thing for most for most

58:01

teams there probably are examples of teams

58:03

of teams that have done that Seven

58:05

Nation Army was the standard for a

58:07

while, right? Like that was a FIFA

58:09

thing, where I forget at every World

58:11

Cup, if you'd get a goal, you'd

58:13

hear Seven Nation Army in the background,

58:15

by the way, stripes. To me, it's

58:17

related to modern stadiums where they've got

58:19

really big sound systems, which they blast

58:21

before and after games, which they used

58:23

to kind of create atmosphere rather than

58:25

having. people do with their voices. So

58:27

that makes sense. Yeah, maybe that's an

58:29

American thing. Maybe it's just a global

58:31

thing. I'm not really sure where we

58:33

can pin it on the States necessarily.

58:35

Well, Spurs apparently play Sandstorm by Darud,

58:37

which is a cause of joy for

58:39

some people and strong dislike for others.

58:42

The one that immediately came to mind

58:44

with this question, and maybe my favorite

58:46

one, is Byron Munich's goal song, which

58:48

I had to look up. And I

58:50

assumed was a classical piece? Maybe it

58:52

is? But it is labelled the Yavadabadu

58:54

song, and it begins with Fred Flintstone

58:56

yelling Yavadabadadu before it goes into the

58:58

grim. You want to sing it? It's

59:00

the can-can, right? It's da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-d. We spoke.

59:02

We spoke on the show fairly on

59:04

the show fairly on the show fairly

59:06

on the show fairly recently. perfectly silly,

59:08

kind of timeless, but does get you

59:10

into it and it gets the whole

59:12

stadium rocking. That's what I have gone

59:14

for with something similar, albeit a bit

59:16

different for the Richmond Kickers. I do

59:18

love the idea of having, won't get

59:20

fooled again, the lead into, I think

59:22

it's Pete Townsend screaming in that one,

59:24

like that would get the whole stadium

59:26

screaming, but I think that's also the

59:28

introduction to one of the CSI franchises.

59:30

So instead of that, I'm going with

59:32

a song that I'm sure we've all

59:34

heard before. It's Shoot Your Shot by

59:36

divine. No? No? Nobody? All right. It's

59:38

a 1982 single by Baltimore drag performer

59:40

divine. I believe the basis or the

59:42

inspiration for Ursula from The Little Mermaid

59:44

is divine, but it's a Eurodisco song.

59:46

But it's got a good sort of

59:48

like electric beat that would bring you

59:50

in and then shoot your shot. Feels

59:52

like an appropriate one for a goal

59:54

being scored. I would encourage people to

59:56

listen to that one because you'll get

59:58

the vibes of it pretty quickly. town's

1:00:00

end doing the screen. Do you think

1:00:02

it's Daltry? I think it's possibly.

1:00:05

Was the CSI or Eminence Front?

1:00:07

Oh, is that a different, I think

1:00:09

there was a period of time when

1:00:12

they did different who songs for different,

1:00:14

that's a, that's a, that's a, Minneapolis,

1:00:16

I think was, was maybe that one,

1:00:19

yeah. Very good. Joe, of course, I'm

1:00:21

about to butt in and say you

1:00:23

were going to mention Crystal Palace famously,

1:00:26

did they do that as well? Because

1:00:28

being with their palace links, possibly. I

1:00:30

remember. I was team grandma giving up

1:00:32

on Ted Lasso. So I don't know.

1:00:35

Yeah, that was totally top of my

1:00:37

list. And I definitely had that and I

1:00:39

was about to say it. So it's weird

1:00:41

that you took the words about out of

1:00:43

a mouth. For Phoenix Rising, because I just

1:00:46

thought of good goal songs for my team.

1:00:48

I didn't do all the historical research on

1:00:50

this. For Phoenix Rising, I'm really tempted by

1:00:52

two options. The first is the Phoenix

1:00:54

by Fallout Boy, which has a line

1:00:57

about raising you like a Phoenix Which

1:00:59

would just go pretty hard after a

1:01:01

goal of score I also think there's

1:01:03

part of me that that maybe you

1:01:05

remembers hearing this at a Phoenix Rising

1:01:08

game I'm not sure the part of

1:01:10

me that part of this at a

1:01:12

Phoenix Rising game I'm not sure the

1:01:15

part of me that thinks that is

1:01:17

because Fallout Boy basis Pete Wentz

1:01:19

was a Phoenix Rising investor. You know, Taylor,

1:01:21

think about this for a second. You're a

1:01:23

defender, you're a goalkeeper, you've just watched the

1:01:25

bowl of shale into the back of your

1:01:27

net, and it goes, you know, I'm not

1:01:29

going to do the rest of it, but

1:01:32

go luck up the song. A song about

1:01:34

an Italian donkey starts playing? I don't know.

1:01:36

That also feels great. I think the ideal

1:01:38

goal song is the one that rubs it

1:01:40

in the face of the defensive team as

1:01:42

much as possible, which I think the Byron

1:01:44

one does really well. So I'm tempted by

1:01:46

this too, maybe we'll do a poll among

1:01:48

Phoenix Rising Games and they can decide for me.

1:01:51

I don't disagree with you. That was the prevailing

1:01:53

sentiment about, like you can see how much that

1:01:55

song is making fun of, like what is it

1:01:57

that makes it making fun of the team that

1:01:59

just conceded? I don't know. It's just

1:02:01

like a silly song, like how

1:02:03

hot, what a silly... You know

1:02:05

that they have the fans dresses,

1:02:07

the T from T-Mobile? Everyone in

1:02:09

that T's doing the can-can at

1:02:11

the time. That's what makes it

1:02:13

worse for the away fans, I

1:02:15

think. It's a watch. They had

1:02:17

legs flicking up in unison. That

1:02:20

T for T-Mobile has annoyed Ryan

1:02:22

for at least five years at

1:02:24

this point. His ongoing annoyance with

1:02:26

it makes me slightly happy. I'm

1:02:29

actually not going to take it with which,

1:02:31

I'm a T-Mobile guy, but I don't like

1:02:33

them because they charge me too much. That's

1:02:35

another story for another time. Right, it's a

1:02:37

thousand percent of mid-Mobile guy, let's be

1:02:39

real. I wasn't a mobile guy, but then they

1:02:41

wouldn't give me a hand set. That's another, you

1:02:43

know, what can you say? Come on, Reynolds,

1:02:45

lift it up. The one thing I was

1:02:48

going to say is I like, I'm really

1:02:50

interested in the... song that teams play when

1:02:52

they come onto the field. And the one

1:02:54

I used to love, which Wimbledon we used

1:02:57

to do, was The Boys Back in Town

1:02:59

by Thin Lizzy, which I think is a

1:03:01

perfect song to come onto the field. But

1:03:03

there's also some more modern ones I think

1:03:06

are really good. I think are really good.

1:03:08

I think Man City. They come on in

1:03:10

the second, like more modern ones I think

1:03:12

are really good. I think Man City.

1:03:15

I think Man City. I think for

1:03:17

the first half, and then the light.

1:03:19

song of all time. It's so good.

1:03:21

It's really good. And then if they

1:03:24

time, ladies and gentlemen, England, and they

1:03:26

come out when the beat drop, this

1:03:28

is so good. Yeah, it's great. My

1:03:30

college team came out to like the

1:03:33

main theme from Last of the Mohicans.

1:03:35

It's a version of the Gale by

1:03:37

Doogie McClain, if you want to bring

1:03:40

in some Scottishness to it. That is

1:03:42

a phenomenal song to walk out to.

1:03:44

It will get you hyped immediately,

1:03:46

even if it's immediately. I like, I

1:03:49

like Manchester Snage, they come out to,

1:03:51

this is the one by the Stone

1:03:53

Roses, I've always liked that. And Goodison

1:03:55

Park, of course, Everton, come out to

1:03:57

ZED cars, is it? ZED cars, yeah. And

1:03:59

they have... the big siren before they come out

1:04:01

as well. I've always liked, I've always liked it.

1:04:03

Why is that? It's dumb. I like it. I

1:04:05

don't know, it is dumb, but it feels, it

1:04:07

just feels like typically ever, and it's kind of

1:04:09

why I've got a salt spot for that club.

1:04:11

What's, what are your guys' picks though? Graham Ryan,

1:04:14

you gotta give your picks for your teams. Well

1:04:16

see the thing is I like the go

1:04:18

music that my team both national team and

1:04:20

club team have I wouldn't change it so

1:04:22

like it's Sterling Albian we play Revon by

1:04:25

Buddy Holly which is a song for reasons

1:04:27

I know and we sing Revon Sterling Albian

1:04:29

rather than the words of that actual song

1:04:31

and then Scotland I'm not sure I'm gonna

1:04:34

be able to explain this in a way

1:04:36

that resonates with anyone outside Scotland but basically

1:04:38

it's a song called bits and pieces it's

1:04:40

a Dutch techno song that was adopted by

1:04:43

my generation when we would sit and part

1:04:45

benchi and drink cheap cider. And for

1:04:47

whatever reason, it's made a comeback

1:04:49

and they play it at Scotland

1:04:51

Games and everyone goes nuts for

1:04:53

it. I'm not, I can't fully

1:04:55

explain why, but it feels very

1:04:58

Scotland National Team. So I wouldn't

1:05:00

change either of those. That's fun.

1:05:02

For Wimbledon, we'd probably have to

1:05:04

go with one of our most

1:05:06

famous musicians. It would have to

1:05:08

be Montfort and Sons, but we didn't,

1:05:10

I don't think we want that as

1:05:12

a whole song celebration. Oh, no, no, no,

1:05:14

no, no, no, no. That one, that's what

1:05:16

I'd have. The Kolo and Yaya song, as

1:05:19

you might know it. That's what I would

1:05:21

have. I know you're changing the lyrics

1:05:23

to something Wimbledon related, or is

1:05:25

it just an odd to Yaya

1:05:28

Turi and Kolo Turi? Yeah, just

1:05:30

play lean. Keep the Tori lyrics,

1:05:32

just for fun. And same for

1:05:34

Charlotte FC, why not? Okay, cool.

1:05:36

Very good. Texas Hoosia, thank you

1:05:38

very much indeed for your question

1:05:40

there, which was submitted via our

1:05:42

discord, which you can access at

1:05:44

patron.com/total soccer show, nailed the URL

1:05:46

that time. You can also go

1:05:48

to total soccer show.com/questions, hence my

1:05:51

confusion earlier. Thank you very much

1:05:53

indeed for everyone who submitted, and

1:05:55

thank you very much indeed to

1:05:57

Taylor Rocko, who's been a sterling

1:05:59

question answer. on this episode and all

1:06:01

others. My pleasure and my joy, my

1:06:03

friend. Grandmuffin, thank you very much indeed,

1:06:05

sir. Thank you, Ryan Bailey. And Joe Lowry,

1:06:07

a pleasure is always my good man. I thought

1:06:09

it was cool when Taylor said my pleasure and

1:06:12

my joy, so I'm going to say that too.

1:06:14

Rhine, my pleasure and my joy. Very good. Made

1:06:16

it less cool. Sorry, John. Dematable. Listen,

1:06:18

thank you for joining us on this

1:06:20

one. We'll be back on the feed

1:06:22

very shortly on the feed very shortly,

1:06:24

very shortly, but for shortly, but for

1:06:26

shortly, but for now, but for now, but

1:06:28

for now. Do it. Well

1:06:31

the little things

1:06:33

you say, yeah this

1:06:36

is Revon by

1:06:38

Buddy Holly, make

1:06:40

me want to

1:06:43

be with you,

1:06:45

Revon Sterling

1:06:48

Albian, Revon

1:06:50

Sterling and...

1:06:53

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1:07:04

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