0:00

So welcome back to the Edron

0:02

podcast. We are here today with

0:04

Akkiel Stokes. Very happy to have

0:06

you on. Thank you for taking

0:08

the time. It's been a few

0:10

years since we talked the last time.

0:12

So thank you for spending another

0:14

45, 60 minutes with us today.

0:16

Yeah, I appreciate you guys. I'm

0:18

pleasure to be here. Always love

0:20

talking trading in the markets

0:23

as you guys know. For landlords as

0:25

well with us here today. Hello

0:27

Moritz. So I want to go

0:29

right into the topics. There's a lot

0:31

of things that I've written down that

0:33

I would like to pick your brain

0:36

on. Let's start with what is

0:38

your trading style and how how would

0:40

you describe your trading strategy?

0:42

So I'm a price action trader.

0:44

I guess if I had to

0:47

describe it kind of a classical

0:49

price action trader, so looking at.

0:51

classic chart patterns. I do some

0:53

advanced patterns as well, but mainly

0:55

my trading strategy revolves around support

0:57

and resistance. So structure. So for

0:59

me, structure is the most important

1:01

clue in the market. It tells

1:03

you a lot about where price

1:05

action came from, where price is

1:07

likely to go, which levels the

1:09

markets are interested in, which levels

1:11

the markets may not be interested

1:13

in. So whether it's trend continuation

1:16

going with the trend, whether it's

1:18

counter trend, you know, playing reverse.

1:20

or something like that, it all

1:22

revolves around structure. And then kind

1:25

of within that, there are different

1:27

little patterns, flags, head and shoulders,

1:29

on double tops, double bottoms,

1:31

a lot of the classic stuff.

1:33

All right. Yeah, remember, you used

1:35

to trade more like a few

1:37

Nazi and those cartley and those

1:39

symmetry patterns, right? So there was a

1:42

shift going on. Yeah, so I still trade

1:44

those. For me. Those were the easiest, easy

1:46

in quotes I guess, the easiest to

1:48

pick up and start trading because when

1:50

I was taught them it was something

1:53

that was very rules based and as

1:55

a newer trader I was all over

1:57

place I didn't like rules I didn't

1:59

follow rules I kind of just wanted

2:01

to come into the marketing you know

2:03

go off like a feel like oh

2:05

I think it's gonna do this I

2:08

think it's gonna do that and I

2:10

got into a lot of trouble so

2:12

I had to take I don't know

2:14

how many steps back and you know

2:16

do something that was very straightforward black

2:18

and white or black and white as

2:21

possible and they're still a staple of

2:23

my my my trading strategy of they're

2:25

kind of slow boring methodical at this

2:27

point but they're consistent go back to

2:29

the stuff that I really enjoyed, which was

2:31

like actually reading and analyzing a price chart.

2:34

So it was a pretty cool transition is,

2:36

as I got better with one thing, I

2:38

was able to do that kind of just

2:40

on autopilot and it opened up more time

2:42

and energy to focus on kind of the,

2:44

I guess, the next evolution of my trading,

2:47

which was pretty cool. Yeah, that sounds interesting.

2:49

I definitely want to get more

2:51

into this, but how did you in the beginning

2:53

when you were just new to trading? How

2:55

did you choose your strategy? Did you

2:57

go through multiple strategies and how they

3:00

then settle on on this one that

3:02

you started with and you're still

3:04

using? Well, I was all over the

3:06

place. It's a little bit shameful, but I

3:08

guess most of us are like this when

3:10

I first started trading. I was looking for

3:12

the thing that would make me money the

3:14

quickest. Even my transition from the stock market

3:16

to the 4X market was because someone told

3:18

me that the 4X market is... bigger, it

3:21

offers more opportunity, you can start with less

3:23

money, it's higher leveraged, and everything in my

3:25

brain was like, I can take a little

3:27

bit of money and I can make a

3:29

lot of money. Now, I wasn't kind of,

3:31

you know, I wasn't as blinded as those

3:33

traders that think they're going to become like

3:36

millionaires in one day, but I thought success

3:38

would be pretty simple. And I knew nothing

3:40

about technical analysis going in the forex. So

3:42

when I first started, I would just go

3:44

around the internet watching the internet watching videos,

3:47

reading books, reading books and like... picking up

3:49

strategy after strategy that everyone made seem good

3:51

and I would try it and fail then

3:53

move on to the next one then try

3:56

it and fail to move on to the

3:58

next one and there was pretty much a

4:00

lot of trial and error. I did,

4:02

I played around for a few mechanical

4:04

strategies, which at the time I just

4:07

wasn't mature enough to trade, meaning that

4:09

I would trade them because they worked,

4:11

but psychologically I wasn't good enough to

4:13

kind of consistently trade them. So every

4:15

time they would lose, I would be

4:18

like, oh, the strategy sucks and I'd

4:20

throw it away. So going through a

4:22

long journey of that, eventually I got

4:24

to something that was price action related,

4:26

which is something I want it. but

4:28

didn't require, I guess,

4:31

the discretionary skill, meaning

4:33

me being able to kind

4:35

of analyze and judge. I

4:37

needed something more strict and

4:39

harmonic patterns, Fibonacci-based patterns were

4:41

very, very strict. It was

4:43

pretty much black or white

4:46

for the most part, and

4:48

that was something that kind

4:50

of... kept me grounded and kept me

4:52

straight and allowed me to actually, you

4:54

know, follow my rules without breaking them.

4:57

So that's how I got started in

4:59

them and obviously I fell in

5:01

love with them as well. Would you say that

5:03

these patterns because they took out the

5:05

discretion from your game, it was easier

5:08

for you to as a beginner and

5:10

also because you've trained so many people

5:12

now over the years, would you say

5:14

this is the easiest way to go

5:16

for beginners like with a... strategy

5:19

that has way less discretion

5:21

and then as they get

5:23

better introduce more discussion into

5:25

the trading? Yeah I agree 100% I

5:28

think as a newer trader we need

5:30

to kind of be as bade as

5:32

possible meaning we we we need

5:34

as little freedom as we can

5:36

get and so I'm a big

5:39

believer in trading intuition I'm also

5:41

a big believer that most traders

5:43

that believe they have intuition at the

5:46

beginning stages don't really have them. So

5:48

like intuition being like that feel that

5:50

sense like I see that and like

5:52

I know it's going to go short

5:54

where a lot of new traders kind

5:56

of like see that and they're just

5:58

you know recklessly gambling. a lot of

6:00

experience traders actually have that. And the

6:02

reason that we have that is because

6:04

we've seen probably millions of different patterns

6:07

at this point in the market over

6:09

and over again. And even if we

6:11

can't quite put our finger on it,

6:13

we know it's like, hey, I know

6:15

when the market does that, that's a

6:17

sign of this. As a newer trader,

6:19

we don't have that yet. We don't

6:21

have that experience in the market where

6:23

we've got all those repetitions of seeing

6:26

the same things over and over and

6:28

over again. Look at this, look at that,

6:30

only this, only that, whether it's price

6:32

action. I think mechanical systems are good

6:34

for newer traders because there is black

6:36

and white and possible. They take the

6:39

discretion and subjectivity out of it. But

6:41

I think as newer traders, we need

6:43

to start with that to kind of

6:45

get our feet wet. And then as

6:48

we gain experience in the market, we

6:50

can start kind of, I guess, earning

6:52

our discretion, earning our intuition, and we

6:54

can start kind of loosening up

6:56

the rules on how we trade. How do

6:58

you help traders when they come

7:01

to you? Because you've been working

7:03

with traders for many many years.

7:05

How do you help them to

7:07

ditch a trading strategy when they

7:09

hit their first three, four, five

7:11

losing trades or maybe just two

7:13

losing trades in a row? How do you

7:16

help them stay on track? Are there

7:18

any techniques or tips? How do you

7:20

how do you help them? Well, it all

7:22

starts with. belief and you know obviously

7:24

you guys are big into back testing

7:26

your big into acquiring data and I

7:29

always tell them that that data is

7:31

purposeful like we if you've spent

7:33

time back testing if you spent time

7:35

acquiring data if you spent time proving

7:37

that your system or strategy works and

7:39

you have the numbers trust the numbers

7:41

right your numbers will show you that

7:44

over time this is profitable it'll show

7:46

you what your edges will show you're

7:48

biggest winning streaks, biggest losing streaks, max

7:50

drawdowns, all of that stuff. And when

7:52

you get into a little bit of

7:54

a rut where you're maybe on a

7:56

losing streak and you're starting to lead

7:58

confidence, I always say. refer to the data,

8:00

right? Click it open, look at it and

8:02

ask yourself, hey, I'm on a five trade losing

8:05

streak right now and you go through your

8:07

data, you know, find what is the biggest losing

8:09

streak? Oh, this system or

8:11

strategy routinely takes seven trade losing streak.

8:13

So you're still in kind of

8:15

a normal area. You're not in an

8:17

unnatural drawdown and that should give

8:19

you confidence that, hey, although it sucks

8:21

at the time that I'm going

8:23

through this, this is normal, this is

8:25

supposed to happen. And my numbers have shown

8:27

me that if I can fight through these times

8:30

that eventually I'll get back on the profitable

8:32

path. So I think having that belief in yourself

8:34

is key. When you have experience in the

8:36

market, when you've been doing it for years and

8:38

years and years, you kind of, you know,

8:40

you know it within yourself because you're like, ah,

8:42

I've been through five trade losing sheets before.

8:44

This is going to be fine. But as a

8:46

newer trader, you don't have that experience of

8:48

working through them. So that first one or those

8:50

first couple ones are extremely hard. And the

8:53

best thing that we can do is look at

8:55

the data, look at the work we put

8:57

in and use that to give us some confidence.

8:59

That and surrounding yourself of other traders, I

9:01

can't tell you how many times I've been in

9:03

a drawdown and I've reached out to another

9:05

trader that, you know, I've known for a while

9:07

and are like, yeah, trading sucks for me

9:09

right now too. And I'm like, yes, like we

9:11

both suck together. And it's just sometimes, you

9:14

know, especially with the everyone talking about their P

9:16

&L on the internet and stuff like that, it

9:18

seems like you're the only one that's in

9:20

a drawdown or only one that's kind of going

9:22

to a bad period. And having someone that

9:24

someone else that's kind of in the suck

9:26

with you, Misery loves company. It kind

9:28

of makes it feel a little bit better. Where it's like,

9:30

Hey, I'm not alone. I'm going through this with someone else

9:32

as well. Yeah, totally. It

9:34

gives you also a little bit more of the

9:36

realistic perspective on what trading is. It is compared

9:38

to what you see on social media. When

9:42

we talk about data,

9:44

did you tweak your system over the

9:46

years? Like meaning did you play around with

9:48

different take profit levels, what risk ratios, trade

9:50

management, and how did you how did you

9:52

go about this? Yeah,

9:55

so data is everything. And I

9:57

think that we talked about the

9:59

backtesting process. before you start trading, you're

10:01

going through and you're getting historical data

10:03

to prove that your system is correct

10:05

and make tweaks and stuff there. It's

10:07

very important that we continue to track

10:10

data and we should be doing that

10:12

anyway with our live journals and whatnot

10:14

to see if we're profitable. But the

10:16

markets change over time and as traders

10:18

we change as well and having that

10:20

data tracked over time can allow you

10:22

to make adjustments. I would say the

10:25

biggest change that I made in my

10:27

trading over the years. has been two things. One,

10:29

it was becoming a little bit more aggressive with my entries, and

10:31

that was because of what I saw in the market. I saw

10:33

that, hey, I'm missing a lot of trades, like a lot of

10:35

trades would come to certain levels. I'm like, okay, I'm going to

10:37

get involved, I'm going to get involved, I'm going to get involved,

10:39

I'm going to get involved, I'm going to get involved, I'm going

10:41

to get involved, I'm going to get involved, I'm going to get

10:43

involved, I just need this, I just need this, I just need this, I

10:45

just need this, I stashed for a stash of stash of stash of, I'm

10:47

going to get involved, I'm going to get involved, I'm going to get involved,

10:49

I'm going to get involved, I just need this, I just need this, I

10:52

just need this, I just need this, I just need this, I just need

10:54

this, I just need this, I just need this, I just need this,

10:56

I Maybe this is a way I

10:58

can enter a trade and it

11:00

allows me to have more opportunities

11:02

or get into a move quicker

11:04

and we can make that adjustment

11:06

to our strategy. Another thing that I

11:08

did, again, without really changing the

11:10

bigger philosophy of how I trade

11:12

is just I got better with

11:14

stops and targets. I got better

11:17

with understanding like how big or

11:19

how small of a stop loss

11:21

I need. Can I take a smaller

11:23

stop loss and still have the same

11:25

pretty much win percentage, meaning that I

11:27

can lose less per trade and it

11:29

doesn't really keep me out of winning

11:31

trades? Yes, check. Can I take a

11:33

little bit more profit, right? Do I

11:36

get better of technical analysis and understanding

11:38

profit levels? And can I get a

11:40

little bit more out of each win?

11:42

And it's amazing if you just take,

11:44

if you're, let's say your win percentage

11:46

remains the same, if you can just

11:48

kind of minimize your stop loss by

11:50

a little bit. and increase your average

11:52

profit by a little bit, you're working it

11:54

on both ends and that does wonders for

11:57

your return on investment at the end of

11:59

the month, quarter. year, whatever it is that you're

12:01

tracking, right? Yeah, it's

12:03

going to boost your reward risk ratio a lot.

12:05

And but you need to do it with data. As

12:07

you said, I see it a lot in the

12:09

journals that I review that traders do a lot

12:11

on guesswork and they don't listen to the

12:13

data. So that's, that's really

12:15

important that you do the things

12:17

that you have a feeling about

12:19

the intuition that you talked about,

12:21

which probably a lot of traders mistake for

12:24

just gambling, as you said, that you

12:26

back it up by data. Otherwise, there's no

12:28

way of verifying if it, if it

12:30

actually works. So

12:32

when you,

12:35

because we talked in the beginning,

12:37

a little bit before we started the podcast, you

12:39

made a transition from a more, because last time

12:41

we talked about you were more in the

12:43

short term trading. Now you transitioned a little bit

12:45

more. How was the, how was the transition for

12:47

you? It

12:49

was lovely. I'm going

12:51

to lie. It was

12:54

so I never intended to

12:56

be a day trader. I wanted to be

12:58

a swing trader, intraday trader hourly and

13:00

up. And I got into day trading when

13:02

I started teaching because I'm working with

13:04

students and we're going through live markets on,

13:06

you know, like in our live trading

13:08

room. So it's like a lower timeframe session.

13:10

And day trading was fun. But the

13:12

thing that I didn't like about it was

13:14

that it was a big time commitment.

13:16

Like I had to be locked in front

13:18

of my charts from this time to

13:20

this time every day. If there was a

13:23

trade that was still on the board,

13:25

I had to kind of cancel plans and

13:27

be around my computer to manage it

13:29

and make sure I'm rolling stops and

13:31

trailing, trailing stops and stuff like that. And

13:33

I started to ask myself, like, why

13:36

did I get into trading in the first

13:38

place? And yes, we all want to

13:40

make lots of money. I'm not going to

13:42

deny that. But really, it was time

13:44

freedom. Trading was cool because it allowed me

13:46

to really have complete freedom around my

13:48

day. Meaning I can, you know, I have

13:50

to do certain things for trading. Yes,

13:52

we have to do that. But we can

13:54

travel at will. We can go to

13:56

stuff. We don't have necessarily a set schedule

13:59

like a normal one. nine to five and

14:01

that's what I love, especially with having

14:03

kids where I can go see soccer

14:05

practices or go see recitals or like

14:07

I help out every year with field

14:09

days at my kid school because I

14:11

can be there at 12 o'clock in

14:13

the afternoon if I want to. And

14:15

I kind of lost track of that

14:17

and got sucked into being a slave

14:19

to the charts. So I made the

14:21

adjustment. after COVID, because COVID was big

14:23

where all the kids were home and like

14:26

my kids want to go play with me

14:28

and I'm on my computer and my getaway,

14:30

I can't do it. And I kind of

14:33

refought about my values. So going, getting away

14:35

from the lower time frames and sticking strictly

14:37

to the higher time frame has been amazing

14:39

because it opens up so much time. I

14:41

think as traders. If we understand what we're doing

14:44

in the market, meaning we're following a plan, we

14:46

have a strategy, we're not just recklessly gambling, I

14:48

think it's surprising to a lot of traders how

14:50

how little time you actually need to spend on

14:52

the chart, like you don't need to be locked

14:55

in for 10 hours a day at all. I

14:57

can literally come in probably about a half an

14:59

hour, see everything that's on my radar for today,

15:01

set alerts or whatever I need to do, and

15:03

then kind of. go off and do

15:06

whatever I want to do and

15:08

just make sure I come back

15:10

to check it if something is

15:12

close. So it's been refreshing. It's

15:15

been refreshing. It's been refreshing. I

15:17

do miss it sometimes. I miss

15:19

the action of day trading. You

15:21

know, sometimes you guys know trading

15:24

gets boring. You're like

15:26

you're waiting on something for

15:28

like a week and you're like,

15:30

come on, man, let's get on

15:32

with you. Time is everything to

15:34

me right now. And it's insane

15:37

how much the time these

15:39

little things eat up. I've

15:41

always been a day trader traditionally,

15:43

but also swing

15:45

trading on the side.

15:48

And right now I'm also

15:50

thinking about making some adjustments

15:52

to my approach just to free

15:55

up some time. Would you say

15:57

there's more profit potentially...

15:59

day trading or versus swing

16:01

trading? Does it's always the

16:03

question that I get all

16:06

the time from all the students

16:08

and in other people as

16:10

well? Like which trading style

16:12

makes the most money? What's

16:14

your experience? That's

16:16

a good one. Um, man, I don't know.

16:18

I don't want to say one

16:21

over the other because it's different.

16:23

You have much more frequency in

16:25

day training. So a lot

16:27

more opportunities. But a lot

16:29

more opportunities doesn't always equal

16:31

profit. A lot more opportunities,

16:34

a lot more chances to

16:36

make mistakes if a trader

16:38

isn't good, a lot more

16:40

opportunity to take losing trades.

16:42

Swing trading, the opportunities are

16:44

less, but they're typically a

16:47

little bit bigger. Your risk

16:49

management, your position sizing approach

16:51

is going to greatly impact that

16:53

as well. So I want to say

16:55

even it's... There's not one over the

16:57

other that can make more. I would

17:00

tell you this, if you are a

17:02

really good trader, and probably day

17:04

trading, just because if you're

17:06

really, really good and you have more

17:08

frequency, you can probably produce

17:11

a little bit more day

17:13

trade on a consistent basis,

17:15

but ultimately it all depends

17:17

on the trader, all depends

17:19

on their strategy, all depends

17:22

on their position sizing strategy

17:24

as well. But that's a.

17:26

That's a good, I like both, do

17:28

both. Make money on both ends. Yeah,

17:31

me too, yeah. And I have, I've

17:33

done some research, actually, talked

17:35

to some friends and prop

17:38

firms as well, and looked

17:40

at their data, etc.

17:42

And for them, interestingly, enough,

17:44

most of their successful traders,

17:47

they are more on the

17:49

one hour for daily charts.

17:52

Yeah, so day trading while

17:54

it can be really incredibly

17:56

profitable, it produces a lot more

17:59

losing trade. than swing traders. And

18:01

I think that is A, probably

18:03

because of the commissions, obviously

18:06

they impact your trading

18:08

a lot, but also because

18:10

the requirements, time requirements, you

18:12

need to focus, the trades

18:14

come way more often, you go easier

18:16

on tilt, all that stuff. So

18:18

psychologically it's probably a little

18:21

bit harder, I would say,

18:23

and because the margins or the

18:25

edges in trading are so razor

18:27

thin, that little bit harder. and

18:29

completely ruin your hatch in the end

18:31

right so yeah it's interesting you you say that

18:33

about the commissions I was I think it

18:35

was trading view had a competition I think

18:38

over the winter and they share over the

18:40

winter and they shared like there I think

18:42

they were top five and there's all different

18:44

type of traders and one of them was

18:46

like you know you could tell they were

18:48

a day trader because everyone else had like

18:50

maybe 20 trades taken or 30 trades taken

18:52

within like a month then there's one person

18:54

that had like like a hundred or something

18:56

crazy like that and the commissions that were

18:58

taken out were just like, it was so

19:00

much, it's sunken where they probably

19:02

should have been like a number

19:04

two finisher and they were already

19:07

fifth, but just because commissions, commissions, commissions,

19:09

and that's something that, like I

19:11

said, a lot of traders don't think

19:13

about that, especially with a razor-thin edge.

19:16

Edges aren't super big, they're very

19:18

small, so that's a really good point. Do

19:20

you think there's a there can be

19:22

a strategy misalignment between the strategy and

19:24

the trader? I just reviewed a journal

19:26

from a trader who sent it into

19:28

us for edge wrong and he's trading a

19:31

swing trading approach, but he has a lot

19:33

of problems with foremost. So he wrote in

19:35

his notes for the trades often that he

19:37

just wanted to get into a trade

19:39

and he needed to just he needed to

19:42

trade. He had the feeling and then jumped

19:44

onto trade. So you think certain people are

19:46

more aligned to a specific strategy or

19:48

Is there something else going on? I

19:50

100% agree and I got a personal story

19:53

about that as well, but something I

19:55

always tell the traders I work with

19:57

is like you want to align your

19:59

strategy with with your belief system and with

20:01

your personality. So like, if you're not, like,

20:03

you know, if you're gonna be a day

20:05

trader, right, you need to be locked in,

20:07

you need to be able to trade after

20:09

trade after trade after trade, have a short

20:11

memory, forget, all that stuff. If that's not

20:13

you, then you're probably gonna struggle. If you

20:16

don't have patience, probably be very hard to

20:18

be a trader in general, but especially a

20:20

swing trader on the four hour or one

20:22

hour, who's waiting hours, hours, hours days weeks

20:24

for opportunities for opportunities for opportunities for

20:26

opportunities for opportunities for. plug and play.

20:28

So I had a mentor that gave

20:30

me a system. He said it was

20:32

profitable. It was as simple as pretty

20:35

much like following a red arrow and

20:37

following a green arrow. When a green

20:39

hour came, you pushed the buy button.

20:41

When a red hour came, you pushed

20:43

the sell button. And I'm like, OK,

20:45

this is the quick fix. And it

20:47

was a trend continuation strategy, which at

20:49

the time I didn't know that I

20:51

was more counter trend base. So I would

20:53

sell on a red arrow. and the profit

20:55

target would be like, let's say,

20:57

like a couple hundred pips away,

20:59

like really, really far away, but

21:01

you're supposed to kind of ride

21:03

this trend. And time after time,

21:05

it would go, it would be

21:07

like up 100 pips, then back

21:10

up 50, then up 150, then

21:12

back up 150, then back up

21:14

to 50, like this, you know,

21:16

the normal roller coaster rise that trades

21:18

take you on. And I found myself,

21:20

like, always stopping myself out of trades,

21:22

taking profits early because I didn't trust

21:25

it to get all the way down

21:27

there and like a million other things

21:29

but I kept sabotaging my edge. There

21:31

were also signals that came where it

21:34

would tell me to like buy and I'd look

21:36

at the chart and be like No, I want

21:38

to sell because like my my counter trend

21:40

brain is saying, we're at resistance like sell,

21:42

but the system is saying buy and it

21:44

was just this this conflict of interest there.

21:47

And that's what led to, you know, again,

21:49

me not trusting the system and sabotaging it.

21:51

So I found out the hard way that,

21:53

you know, at the time, like I didn't,

21:55

especially in the Forex market, I wasn't a

21:57

big trend continuation believer.

22:00

nor does my personality fit with

22:02

someone that can kind of sit

22:04

in trades for a very long

22:06

time and ride those waves of

22:08

being yo -yoed from profit to loss,

22:10

profit to loss. And that's something

22:12

that made me go to advanced patterns,

22:14

maybe go to a more counter -trend trading

22:16

style. So yeah, I certainly

22:18

think that I, I think it's up to the

22:20

trader, and we don't know what we're doing in

22:22

the beginning, but as you're trading a strategy and

22:24

as you're like you're taking notes like you mentioned, if

22:27

you feel that you just can't trust it

22:29

or you just don't believe it, it

22:31

may be worth investigating another type of style

22:33

that's, that's more aligned with kind of

22:35

your personality and your belief system, because I

22:37

think it's only a matter of time

22:39

before you shoot yourself in the foot if

22:41

you're trying to trade something that you

22:43

don't actually trust. What

22:46

I find often, because I was drawn to counter -trend

22:48

trading in the beginning and I now

22:50

have seen over the years that a lot of new traders

22:52

seem to be drawn towards it. I

22:54

think it's not about the

22:56

systems, I think it has a lot to do with how

22:58

the trades are looking. When you see that

23:01

the price is already in the top right corner of your, of

23:03

your screen, then you don't believe that there's

23:05

a lot more to go and you see

23:07

all the free space that is at the

23:09

bottom. That's how I always felt looking back

23:11

now that this might also be related to

23:13

that, because I was, I was never

23:15

comfortable with the counter -trend following in the beginning, but

23:17

it has shifted over the years as well. That's

23:21

a good point, I never thought about that. That

23:23

does, visually, you're right, when you see it there,

23:25

there's no space here, lots of space down there.

23:28

And then people believe it has gone so

23:30

far, it has to turn around, but I think

23:32

that's a very important belief that you need

23:34

to work on. And the more you see it,

23:36

then you realize, okay, price can keep going

23:38

actually for quite a long time. It's

23:41

actually the biggest thing I

23:43

think we see in Edgewong that

23:45

traders get out of their profitable

23:47

trades too early. I think besides

23:50

jumping into four more trades, I think

23:52

that's the number to a close second. People

23:54

jumping out of profitable trades way too early and they

23:56

leave so much on the table. that

24:00

as well? Yeah, yeah, a lot. And again,

24:02

this is when I was when I

24:04

was younger, less mature, less educated

24:06

on the market, didn't really

24:08

worry about data collection and

24:10

back testing and trust and

24:12

all that stuff. Yeah, for me, and

24:15

this is one of the dumb terms

24:17

I always hear, it's like you, you

24:19

know, you can't go broke taking profit.

24:21

So I would justify doing like that,

24:24

where it's like, oh, I'm only halfway

24:26

to my projected profit target, but I'm

24:28

going to get out because it's a

24:30

profitable trade. Like that's all that matters.

24:33

And, you know, back then, I wasn't,

24:35

I didn't understand risk reward or risk

24:37

ratio and all that fun stuff and

24:39

how like, hey, my wins need to

24:41

be full so they make up for

24:44

my losses. It was just like any

24:46

type of winning trade is good. Like,

24:48

higher win percentage, I'm awesome. I

24:50

remember working with a guy, his whole

24:52

goal was to have a 90% win percentage. And

24:54

I kept trying to tell him like, like, Why? Like,

24:56

dude, does it, like, doesn't really matter? He's like, I

24:59

just want to get it, I want to get it,

25:01

want to get it. Okay. So I only worked with

25:03

him for probably like a month or so, and then, you

25:05

know, our philosophies didn't kind of mesh. I remember getting an

25:07

email from him, like, a couple months later, he's like, a

25:09

keel? I don't know if you remember me, but I finally

25:12

did it. I had mine, like, like, like, like, like, a 95% month.

25:14

I'm like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

25:16

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

25:18

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

25:20

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

25:22

blah, blah, blah And I'm like what? And the

25:25

dude was taking, he would take

25:27

profit every time he was like two

25:29

pips in the green, but then he

25:31

would take full losses. So like he

25:33

only had like two losing trades all

25:36

month, but like those two losing trades

25:38

wiped out all of his profits because

25:40

he never like let them go to

25:42

where they were supposed to be. But

25:45

he was happy with his 95% win

25:47

percentage, which makes zero sense, but

25:49

it's tough. But I think being.

25:51

being educated, being knowledgeable, understanding how

25:53

the full picture works. And again, that goes

25:56

back to your back testing. When you have

25:58

your data, you can see your. average

26:00

wins and how they make up for

26:02

losses and how the whole pie works

26:04

together, you start to understand more or

26:07

it's like, hey, like, I have to let

26:09

this ride, like I chose this level for

26:11

a reason, trust myself, trust my analysis,

26:13

just get away from my charts, don't look

26:15

at it and, and, you know, I need

26:18

to follow the rules of this plan to,

26:20

to be successful. Right. Only talking

26:22

about trading personality, are you more

26:24

of a risk reward or win

26:27

right guy? More of a

26:29

risk reward, win rate to a

26:31

certain level. It was funny, a

26:33

couple years ago, I almost invented

26:36

the strategy, but I had the

26:38

strategy using like Keltner channels and

26:40

stuff like that. And it was

26:43

a really profitable strategy.

26:45

The problem was it only won

26:47

about 30% in the time. And

26:49

knowing myself over the years, like

26:52

my threshold is probably about. 40% if

26:54

I'm 40% win rate like I'm fine

26:56

obviously anything above that is great but

26:58

under 40% is where I get kind

27:00

of like fidgety and I'm telling myself

27:03

a keel you know that was like many

27:05

years ago like you know the game

27:07

more now that's gonna be a little

27:09

bit different so I started trading a

27:11

strategy that had 30% win rate and

27:13

this thing would routinely take like 10 to

27:16

12 trade losing streaks in a row.

27:18

But I'm telling myself, like, okay, you

27:20

know, like, you got this, you know,

27:22

you know, you know, you know, you

27:25

know, you're a different person now, and

27:27

even then it was

27:29

still uncomfortable, like the psychological

27:31

battle of like coming in every

27:33

day and like losing like 12

27:36

times, like it just. It tore

27:38

me apart. Like I can I

27:40

didn't make any mistakes, but I

27:42

can feel myself like wanting to

27:44

ignore signals and or do dumb

27:46

stuff just to get just to get

27:48

the winds going again. And so I ended

27:51

up ditching it just because it didn't. I

27:53

knew I was going to get myself

27:55

in trouble. So definitely win percentage

27:57

matters. But for me, it's a.

27:59

you know I would say 40%

28:01

is probably my floor. Anything under

28:03

40% is I probably would

28:06

start getting a little a

28:08

little fidgety and I would open

28:10

up the door to some mistakes

28:12

but me personally I'm like 55%

28:14

55 60 max like I don't

28:16

need a 70% 80% women percentage.

28:18

I'm fine if I can win

28:21

a little bit more than I

28:23

lose mentally. Yeah, that's yep. It's 50%

28:25

with a good risk reward, that'll get the

28:27

job done. It cuts down the pressures too.

28:29

Because now it's like, my expectation isn't like

28:32

I have to come in and win every

28:34

trade. It's like, hey, I'll win a few,

28:36

I'll lose a few. And like I'm very

28:38

comfortable knowing that I can win half the

28:41

time and make money. Like that's, it's

28:43

a very comfortable place to be

28:45

and for me personally. Is there

28:47

something like you track market data?

28:49

Do you think your strategy is

28:51

maybe out of alignment, the market

28:53

is different? Is there any way

28:55

how you assess your strategy doing a

28:57

losing streak? Yeah, so I'm always journaling,

29:00

I'm always reviewing, I'm always reviewing trades.

29:02

I think that's something that a lot

29:04

of traders don't do enough is reviewing

29:06

trades. I'm reviewing them to see if

29:08

I did everything right. I'm also reviewing

29:11

them to see like, what could I

29:13

have done better? Is there any way

29:15

I could have gotten here earlier or

29:17

got out sooner? Just to see if

29:19

there's any clues in there. And in

29:21

that review process, I start to learn

29:24

a lot about the tendencies in the

29:26

market because the market conditions do change

29:28

as you mentioned it. And sometimes, but

29:30

not sometimes, your strategy will perform differently.

29:32

For me, a lot of it doesn't

29:35

necessarily come with the entry technique or

29:37

the actual trade. It's more so like

29:39

the profit target or a stop loss.

29:42

So I've noticed that. In low volatility times,

29:44

I think one of the last ones that

29:46

I had that was bad was like 2000,

29:48

when I say 16 or 14, where like

29:50

the volatility was sucked out of the market

29:52

and my performance numbers weren't as good as

29:55

I thought they should be. But my win

29:57

percentage was about the same and so it

29:59

didn't really... make sense. And what I notice is

30:01

that, especially with my

30:03

secondary targets, right, price action just

30:05

wasn't moving enough to hit them. So

30:08

the location was good. The entry was

30:10

good. It just wasn't getting to the

30:12

level that I thought. And I was

30:14

able to catch that by reviewing it

30:16

and just journaling on a consistent basis,

30:18

make some changes about halfway through the

30:20

year and end up surviving the year

30:22

wasn't my best year in the world,

30:24

but I stopped it from being a

30:26

negative year. So I think that consistent

30:28

review process is key because markets are

30:30

different. They will change. And I'm not

30:32

saying you need to make a complete

30:34

overhaul of your strategy. You don't want

30:36

to ditch it. But you should be

30:39

willing, in my opinion, to make small

30:41

tweaks to adjust with the times

30:43

if you need to. Totally.

30:46

Yeah, just this week, we actually introduced an edge

30:48

one, the new metric showing you how many

30:50

times the price is hitting your stop loss and

30:52

how many times it's hitting your target. Because

30:55

that's, I think, I see it

30:57

often when I review the journals that they are too

30:59

aggressive or too, yeah, too aggressive with their targets, they

31:01

set it too far. Price moves in

31:03

their favor quite a bit, but because they're shooting

31:05

for so white targets, price doesn't make it

31:07

there. So looking at

31:09

your target placement and how price is

31:11

moving into your targets is, I

31:13

think, really, really can be really helpful. Because

31:16

the entry, there's only so much you

31:18

can do before you get into FOMO

31:20

or missing trades, but to take profit and

31:22

the stop loss, I think there's a lot of

31:24

room for tweaking. I

31:26

agree. It's funny you mentioned that

31:29

because it's, I agree 100%.

31:31

I think that I don't want to

31:33

say most traders because there's a lot of trade,

31:35

most traders that I work with from probably

31:37

a lot of trades that you work with, the

31:39

entry isn't the issue. It's just like you're

31:41

making the right prediction, you're calling it in the right

31:43

place, you're just shooting for too

31:46

much of targets. And like, for me, there's

31:48

nothing worse than the market doing everything you

31:50

thought it was going to do, but like

31:52

not going to where you thought it would be.

31:54

So, but I think too many people spend time

31:56

worrying about the magic entry, the magic entry, how

31:58

do I get in? How do I and I

32:00

don't want to say it's irrelevant, but

32:02

like there's so many, there's different ways

32:04

to do it. There's only so many ways

32:06

to do it. Like I think the prediction of

32:09

where you think that move is going to

32:11

happen and where you think it's going to

32:13

go to, I think that's much more important

32:15

than just like the entry. Right. Yeah, it's

32:17

such a big mindset shift if you can

32:19

get away from this entry focused trading and

32:22

look at your strategy as a whole with

32:24

a lot of different moving parts instead of

32:26

only at the entry. Talking

32:28

about that, what is your take

32:30

on setting take profits versus simply

32:33

letting the market take you out

32:35

of your trade when you're trailing

32:37

your stop until the infinity?

32:39

So I think it depends on

32:41

your trading style. I think it depends

32:44

on the market as well. So

32:46

I was just having a conversation

32:48

with this with a trader yesterday

32:51

who... So let's say you're investing in

32:53

an index, let's say like the S&P,

32:55

where the S&P, the footsie, something like

32:57

that, like we're the Dax even, right,

33:00

we're at all-time highs right now. If

33:02

you're in like an index where they

33:04

traditionally kind of go higher, that's just

33:06

what they do, I don't think it's

33:09

a bad strategy to kind of put

33:11

a position in, obviously if you're going

33:13

with the trend. and then letting it

33:15

ride, trailing stops and trying to get

33:18

as much as you can out of

33:20

it, kind of like an old

33:22

school train continuation way. On

33:24

the other hand, you can also get

33:26

into a lot of trouble doing that

33:28

because like we just mentioned, if you're

33:31

trailing stops, you're going to get

33:33

stopped out when the market goes

33:35

against you. So at some point,

33:37

you're going to reach a profit

33:39

level that's higher than what you end up taking.

33:41

And it may be more efficient. is going to

33:43

be at or we're at that that that we're

33:45

the highest point of profit is going to be

33:48

at and getting out there close to never get

33:50

up to very high but close to instead of

33:52

waiting for the market to come all the way

33:54

back down and take you out. But again I

33:57

think it depends on what type of market

33:59

you in if you are, if you are a trend

34:01

trader in a heavily trending market, then

34:03

yes, it's much safer to kind of

34:05

do something like that. If you are

34:07

a counter trend trader in a market

34:09

that is consolidating, you probably don't want

34:11

to let it ride. Me personally, what

34:13

I do in situations like that, where

34:15

I think there's kind of this extended move,

34:17

I do a combination of both, right?

34:19

I'll split my position up into two

34:21

or three or something like that, and

34:23

I'll always have a take profit at. a

34:25

level where I think prices likely to

34:27

go. I call it my security cat

34:30

level, where it's like, I'm not super

34:32

aggressive of targets. It's like, I want

34:34

a nice target level where I think

34:36

price action will go, I want to

34:38

get some money, I want to put

34:41

it in my pocket, move my stops

34:43

to break even, and I know it's

34:45

a freebie trade. With the second half

34:47

of that position, though, now that I've

34:49

already made money off the trade, that's

34:52

where I could be more aggressive. Mentally,

34:54

it's much better for me because at least

34:56

in the back of my mind, I know

34:58

that hey, at least I made something out

35:01

of the trade and I don't have to

35:03

worry about kind of getting stopped out for

35:05

break even or less than what I desired

35:07

if it were to retrace. You have been

35:09

working with traders for so long

35:11

and by the way, the links

35:13

to your program, your Twitter, everything

35:15

will be in the video description,

35:17

the podcast. The traders who come

35:20

out of your program with the best.

35:22

results and the biggest progress. Do they

35:24

have something in common? Is there something

35:26

that you see among them just for

35:29

how they approach trading the way

35:31

they're thinking? Yeah, so the ones that

35:33

are most successful are usually the

35:35

most knowing. I mean, I mean that

35:37

in the most respectful way possible. I know

35:40

what you mean, yes. I was annoying to

35:42

my mentor, Jason Greystone, when I taught him,

35:44

he was annoying to me. And it's like,

35:46

these are the ones that are always asking

35:48

questions. They're always emailing you, they're always sending

35:51

you messages on the chat. And it could

35:53

be like about the smallest, simplest things. There's

35:55

one guy I'm working with now who like, it

35:57

seems like he's asking me the same question every

35:59

day. like I told him like it's

36:01

annoying but don't stop because to me

36:03

it just means like he's double

36:06

checking triple checking and he's doing his

36:08

work. You tend to see those

36:10

people have the most success because they're

36:12

just putting in the most effort.

36:14

I also see a lot of success

36:16

from people who are well obviously the

36:18

most disciplined traders so a

36:20

lot of sports people a lot

36:22

of ex military people anyone

36:24

that is just like very very strict

36:27

and disciplined I see a

36:29

lot of success from them

36:31

because they just don't fall

36:33

into those psychological battles. So

36:36

I would say that you know the ones

36:38

that ask ask and honestly just put

36:40

into work they do all the small things

36:43

they pay attention to the details I

36:45

tend to see those have the most success

36:47

the ones that are kind of like

36:49

they're doing it but not fully doing it they

36:51

kind of stay in that like break even

36:53

bubble forever until they kind of you know

36:55

figure out that hey trading isn't for me

36:57

and they quit or they understand like hey

36:59

if I want to actually be successful like

37:01

I've got to start doing all these small

37:03

things. Yeah we

37:05

interviewed Dr. Steenbagger a while ago and he

37:08

said the number one trade that

37:10

he sees in the best traders that he's working

37:12

with is curiosity and I had to think

37:14

about just what you said it's just asking and

37:16

asking and just yeah

37:18

being curious to just don't be

37:20

afraid to ask. I know

37:22

especially when in a group setting it can

37:24

sometimes be intimidating but

37:26

asking question I think

37:29

is so important whenever

37:31

something comes up because it

37:33

can lead you to a new place give you new

37:35

impulses I think it's so important. Yeah

37:37

I think curiosity is key at 100 percent

37:40

I love I still spend time even

37:42

after what 18 years of doing this like

37:44

just going on random charts like loading

37:46

up random indicators just like looking around and

37:48

I call it like playing in the

37:50

sandbox or I'm like oh what is that

37:52

I don't use that that looks cool

37:54

and just like you know I love the

37:56

back testing process of like trying new

37:58

things again especially with indicators since - I'm newer

38:00

indicators or what started with indicators just like

38:02

most traders just throwing like a bunch of

38:04

my chart and thinking they would work and

38:06

kind of coming back to him and seeing

38:08

like hey what happens if I tweak this

38:10

setting or do this and just like it's

38:12

fun and most of the stuff doesn't work

38:15

but every once in a while you find

38:17

one thing it's like oh. Like that could be

38:19

helpful and like you said before with

38:21

razor thin edges in the market if

38:23

you can find one thing that just

38:25

like increases it by a little bit

38:27

like that's a massive win. So yeah

38:30

staying curious is key to don't get

38:32

too locked in. It's also one of

38:34

my favorite times on the weekend when

38:36

I dig into my edge walk and

38:39

review the week because especially after a

38:41

month or after a quarter. you can

38:43

sometimes find these golden nuggets like you

38:45

repeat a mistake two or three times

38:48

that quarter which doesn't sound like

38:50

a lot when you take 50 60

38:52

traits in a quarter but then you

38:54

you know you see how much those mistakes

38:57

cost you and then you add it up

38:59

over a year there might be like 12

39:01

15% or so at the end of the year

39:03

when you're making 40 50% a year

39:05

that's that's a massive increase in

39:07

your baseline. finding digging for those

39:09

gold nuggets in edge form is

39:11

just I this is my sandbox

39:13

right it's always amazing curiosity yeah and

39:16

the dad is all there we have

39:18

like we have if you're doing it the dad

39:20

is all there it's like it's it's I

39:22

don't want to say it amazes me that

39:24

more traders don't take advantage of stuff like

39:26

that but we know that a lot of

39:28

people were are lazy and they're just like

39:30

I don't want to track it I just

39:32

you know I just you know I want

39:34

to dig into it and look at it

39:36

just you know but it's that's where the

39:38

that's where the nuggets are man I agree

39:40

100% that's so true. I want to ask you

39:42

a question because I think you're the

39:44

perfect person to ask this because you

39:47

have a family of a very busy life

39:49

I see you're into athletics and sports

39:51

people who have limited time they have a

39:53

day job maybe still and they want to

39:55

get into trading what are some tips

39:57

that you can give them to use that

39:59

time that that they have in the

40:01

best possible way? Schedule

40:05

it out. Start by

40:07

taking all 24 hours

40:09

of the day and

40:11

schedule it out. So schedule, start off

40:13

with the things that you have to do.

40:15

It's like you have to sleep. So fill

40:17

in your sleep time. You have to go

40:19

to your day job. So fill in that

40:21

time. Maybe you put in like, hey, I

40:23

have to spend at least two hours with

40:25

the wife and kids, the family put in

40:28

that time. And then first, see what's left.

40:30

See what time is available to work on

40:32

your trading. And then

40:34

make adjustments. So for

40:36

example, if you can

40:38

go to bed one

40:40

hour later or if you can

40:42

wake up one hour earlier, you just opened

40:44

up one extra hour of time. I remember

40:46

talking to a guy a while ago. I

40:48

call him the Xbox guy. We're asking the

40:50

same question. He's like, hey, I have

40:53

a day job. I don't have a lot of, I

40:55

only learned how to trade, but I don't have enough

40:57

time. And I'm like, hey, okay, walk me through your

40:59

schedule. And he's walked me through his schedule. And he's

41:01

like, yeah, I spent about three, four hours a day

41:03

playing video games. And I'm like, cool.

41:05

Like I used to love games. I used

41:07

to be a gamer trading in kids, both kind

41:09

of crushed that, although my kids are getting older.

41:11

So maybe I can get back into it, but

41:13

I'm afraid they'll embarrass me. But I told him,

41:15

I said, hey, like those three, four

41:17

hours of Xbox time you have each

41:20

day, like, take that away.

41:22

That could be your trading time or

41:24

take half of it away. And unfortunately

41:26

he was like, nah, I'm not willing

41:28

to give that up, which tells you

41:30

your priorities. But, you know, you can

41:32

always find time in a day. So I

41:34

think schedule out your day, find those little

41:36

pockets that can give you time of, you

41:39

know, when can you work on your trading? And if

41:41

you're at the point where you are trading, it's gonna

41:43

help tell you what type of trader you can be.

41:45

Like, if you don't have a good pocket of time,

41:47

you can't be a day trader because you need to

41:49

be in front of your charts. Maybe you're a swing

41:51

trader. If you're on a four hour chart and you

41:53

see that, hey, I have a time block every four

41:55

hours where I can take a break and look at

41:57

the charts, maybe that's the better style for you. But

42:00

I think it's important to remember that,

42:02

especially in the beginning, you always want

42:04

to work your trading around your life,

42:06

right? Your real life is what matters

42:08

most. That's what pays the bills, right?

42:10

So work your trading around your life.

42:12

And then if you're fortunate enough, then

42:14

you can kind of start changing your

42:16

life as your trading gets better and kind

42:18

of doing the opposite. Right. And I've seen,

42:21

it's not always the right answer to become

42:23

a full-time trader. We work with a trader.

42:25

I don't know, seven years ago, he

42:27

had very good results, but he had

42:29

a day job. Then he quit his

42:31

job to become full and profitable trader,

42:33

and he immediately started becoming a

42:35

losing trader. And I talked to

42:37

him, he said, he was also missing

42:39

the social interactions, and he didn't

42:41

feel like sitting at home all day. Then he

42:44

made the adjustment to work half-time and

42:46

trade the other half of the day at

42:48

home. And that was such a massive improvement

42:50

for him, because he also felt

42:52

better. So I think it's really important that

42:54

you find out who you are. People

42:56

put this on a pedestal to say, I want

42:59

to sit at home all day by myself and

43:01

just click the mouse. I don't think it's the

43:03

right answer for everyone. There are people

43:05

who are social and people who maybe

43:07

don't even know that they are social and

43:09

it's not the right approach for them. Yeah,

43:11

I agree. And I'm not the most social

43:14

person in the world, but it's like. Yeah, I

43:16

couldn't imagine. So I coach track and field still.

43:18

I started doing that about the same time I

43:20

started trading. And I always get asked the question.

43:22

And I was like, you know, why do you

43:24

do that? And it's not, you know, track and

43:27

field coaches don't get any money. But it's like,

43:29

what it does is it takes me out of

43:31

the house for three or four hours a day,

43:33

gets me around people in an athletic setting where

43:35

I'm more likely to kind of work out or

43:38

do something to stay in shape. And it gives

43:40

me that time away that that relief time

43:42

to clear to mine and what I found

43:44

in my trading especially in comparison to when

43:46

I first started and I was doing like

43:49

12 hours a day and then just getting like

43:51

mind melted is that when I come back

43:53

to the charts like I'm more inspired like

43:55

it's because you know it's like your your

43:57

partner going away and then like they come.

44:00

and you're like, oh man, like I'm excited

44:02

to see you again. It's one of those

44:04

type of deals and I feel like it's

44:06

a new spark when I look at the

44:09

chart or do anything trading related because I

44:11

had that time away. When you go through

44:13

those sessions like a back testing session where

44:15

you're in the charts for like multiple

44:17

hours, it kind of gets bland and

44:20

boring and like you can kind of

44:22

get on autopilot and just like, like

44:24

you said, you need that break. We all

44:26

need a break as human beings. or

44:28

how trading can benefit your life when

44:30

you have those chunks of time where you

44:33

can just in the middle of the day do

44:35

something that you absolutely love? And

44:37

I think that you start to appreciate

44:39

it much more. Agreed. What advice

44:41

would you give someone who's coming to

44:43

you new interested in trading maybe has

44:46

a little bit of experience how to

44:48

make the most or how to make

44:50

the biggest progress and where should they

44:52

start? So come into like our program

44:55

specifically or just like in general?

44:57

Um, you or yeah. Um, I would always

44:59

say no matter where you're at,

45:01

um, start with the basics. Um,

45:03

I believe that the advance is

45:05

nothing more than a mastery

45:07

of the basics. Even myself

45:09

and my trading career, I

45:12

went back to like learning

45:14

the simple stuff like candlestick

45:16

patterns and simple patterns, like a

45:18

lot of stuff that you guys

45:20

talk about in your book. And

45:22

I found that once. Once I

45:24

went back and really mastered those small

45:26

things, the things that seem insignificant to

45:28

like the bigger strategy, I became better

45:31

at my analysis because now I can

45:33

see different clues that the market is

45:35

giving because I think especially if you're

45:37

doing technical trading, the market gives

45:39

a lot of clues just hidden between

45:42

like a bunch of junk. So the

45:44

better knowledge you have at seeing those

45:46

clues. the better chance you have of

45:48

kind of creating your edge. So I

45:51

would say start at the beginning, even

45:53

if it's review, review it, there's nothing

45:55

wrong with that. And then work up

45:57

and see how you can use those

45:59

small. basic things in your bigger trading.

46:02

But in general, I kind of say

46:04

this, I say learn everything the first

46:06

time, but just to experience

46:08

it. So understand this, understand

46:10

different strategies, see mechanical strategies,

46:12

price action strategies, Fibonacci base

46:14

patterns, moving average, like experience

46:16

it all, and try to

46:19

get a feel of what

46:21

you think works well with you.

46:23

Like, oh man, like this

46:25

trend continuation thing using the moving

46:27

average. Like I really like. That felt

46:29

good. I picked it up pretty quickly

46:31

or, oh, this strategy over here, that

46:34

was confusing. I don't quite understand it.

46:36

And then you can kind of start

46:38

separating and kind of figuring out, hey,

46:40

I like this. This was easy to

46:42

understand. This didn't make sense. And you

46:44

can kind of lock in on what

46:46

type of trader you think you're going to

46:49

become. Then do everything again, right? But

46:51

now when you learn the stuff, learn it

46:53

in reference to kind of the strategy

46:55

that you plan on approaching. So instead

46:57

of just learning like, hey, this is a moving

47:00

average and it does this and does that, learn

47:02

it, but kind of in the mindset of,

47:04

okay, I'm learning moving averages, how does

47:06

this directly relate to this moving average

47:08

space strategy or learning candlestick formations, how

47:11

does this pinbar directly relate to entries?

47:13

And then you kind of like have

47:15

a different appreciation for the beginner knowledge

47:18

in respect to the strategy that you're

47:20

trading. And then after that, after you

47:22

kind of locked it on a strategy,

47:24

Go to the back testing process. I always say

47:27

do kind of two rounds of back testing.

47:29

There's a pre-back testing. This is just

47:31

like you have an idea. You're looking

47:33

through the market. You're not really taking

47:36

too much detailed notes, but you're looking

47:38

for different ideas like, hey, stop loss

47:40

ideas, different type of entry filters, exit

47:42

filters like that. And then once you

47:44

kind of have in your notes, everything you

47:46

want to test, lock in, test it. If it

47:49

works well, after all the adjustments and everything,

47:51

go through some demo trading experiences, that way

47:53

you can make sure you can actually trade

47:55

it live because sometimes you can do things

47:57

in back testing that you can't actually execute

47:59

in the law. markets and then start

48:01

small, you know, start with a

48:03

little bit of money. And as

48:06

you progress and then set some

48:08

goals, whatever it may be, allow

48:10

yourself to trade more and more

48:12

capital as you have time to kind of

48:14

iron out those mistakes. David, talking

48:16

about that, how, what is your

48:19

approach to scaling up capital once

48:21

you are profitable? I mean,

48:23

how, how would you approach it maybe

48:25

with prop firms, adding your own

48:28

capital, what's your, Would you increase your

48:30

trade your risk per trade? How would

48:32

you to approach that? So from from

48:34

a personal capital perspective, I

48:37

would start small. So if you have,

48:39

let's just say a $10,000 account, maybe

48:41

start with trading a quarter of

48:43

it and say that for the

48:45

first three months, six months, depending

48:48

on your, you're your style, if you're

48:50

a day trader, maybe a little bit smaller

48:52

than that. But for the first

48:54

X amount of months, I'm only

48:56

going to trade a quarter a

48:58

quarter. of my available capital because

49:00

we have to understand that at the beginning

49:03

of our trading especially our live trading that's

49:05

probably when we're going to be at our

49:07

worst like we're most likely to do the

49:09

dumb stuff in the beginning and mess up

49:11

so it's like why mess up when you

49:13

have the most amount of capital available to

49:15

mess up right mess up when you have

49:18

like a little bit of money and then

49:20

whatever that time frame is for you and

49:22

I always like judging it off of

49:24

not just profitability But good trades, because

49:26

you could be profitable taking bad trades.

49:28

We all know that you can just

49:30

get lucky in the market it happens.

49:32

But base it off of a good

49:34

trade percentage, meaning trades that you follow

49:36

your rules, and then also base it

49:38

off kind of profitability. And once you've

49:40

achieved whatever that goal is after the

49:42

blank amount of months period. then maybe

49:44

add another quarter of your capitals. Now,

49:46

instead of trading, what, 2,500, maybe you're

49:48

trading 5,000, and then do that for

49:50

another blank amount of months, and then

49:52

work your way up to your full

49:54

allotment. So I think that's the best way

49:57

to scale up if you're just talking about

49:59

personal capital. As far as prop firms goes,

50:01

I would have loved if I knew about

50:03

prop firms, online prop firms when I

50:05

first started trading. I went into managing

50:08

money because I didn't have enough money

50:10

to trade just with my own capital.

50:12

Once I kind of realized that I

50:14

wasn't going to turn $10,000 into a

50:16

million dollars in a year, I was

50:18

like, okay, well, I got to do

50:21

something else. So I did the old

50:23

school route of like. going to people

50:25

and giving presentations and begging them to

50:27

like give me money to trade and

50:29

it was horrible experience, but it's fun.

50:31

It hardened to me, I guess you

50:33

can say. But I like the prop

50:36

firm idea. The goal is to build

50:38

a bigger account, right? So we can

50:40

use the power of compounding. How you

50:42

build that bigger account is. up to

50:44

you. You can trade your own capital,

50:46

you can work for a prop firm,

50:48

do a challenge, win the challenge, and

50:50

then get paid off the prop firm

50:52

capital and then that capital gets or

50:54

your profits from that get put back

50:56

into your personal account. You can even

50:58

do stuff where you write out a

51:00

plan where it's like, hey, I'm on

51:02

a five-year plan, I'm going to pick

51:04

up a part-time job and the money

51:06

I make from this part-time job is

51:08

simply to go right back into my

51:10

trading account. probably isn't going

51:13

to change too much. Like, I don't think

51:15

you're going to go from like a

51:17

10% trader to a thousand percent return

51:19

on investment. But let's say you're locked

51:22

in at like a 50% return a

51:24

year. Well, the question is, how do

51:26

you grow that? Well, 50% return a

51:28

year with $1,000 is like no big

51:30

deal. And people are like, ah, that

51:32

stinks. I only made, what, what,

51:35

let's say, $500? But think about

51:37

the future. You can get a

51:39

50% return with $10,000, $20,000, with

51:41

$30,000, and then that profit is

51:44

much bigger. So the goal is

51:46

to grow that trading account. And

51:48

I was going to say, by

51:50

any means necessary, but I don't

51:53

want people going out there like

51:55

robbing and killing people for money.

51:57

But like, just ruin your podcast.

52:00

for money. But aside from murder

52:02

and stealing, try to grow

52:04

that capital by any means. And

52:06

I think prop firms are

52:08

a great way that you can

52:10

use a skill to supplement

52:12

your trading income. It's

52:14

brilliant. It gives hope to traders that don't have

52:16

a lot of capital but are really, really good. And

52:18

there are a lot of people out there like

52:20

that who are really, really, really good. They just don't

52:22

have a lot of money to trade with. Agree,

52:26

yeah. I mean, I always say just

52:28

because, for example, there are some people

52:30

that have nice chunk of savings, say

52:32

50 ,000 US or so, then just because

52:34

you have that kind of money doesn't

52:36

mean that you should immediately risk 500

52:38

bucks per trader. So that's obviously insane.

52:41

What I always tell my

52:43

students is it should hurt a

52:45

little bit when you lose, but when you

52:47

win, it should also feel a little bit

52:49

good, you know. So for me, that

52:52

amount in the beginning was like 50

52:54

bucks, losing 50 bucks, the student really

52:56

sucked, but if you make 100 bucks,

52:58

like two to one, then oh, fantastic.

53:01

And then you can pay yourself

53:03

sometimes and take your girlfriend out to

53:05

dinner, etc. And then

53:07

you think, oh, okay, my friend, he

53:09

has to work. How many hours, 10

53:11

hours in the library in the university

53:13

to make 100 bucks? Oh, fantastic. I

53:15

just made that on one trade. And

53:18

that motivates you, right? You don't have

53:20

to shoot for the

53:22

moon immediately. That will come with

53:24

time, right? So

53:30

I want to be mindful of your

53:32

time. I think we covered a lot

53:35

of ground. I think this was a

53:37

masterclass in strategy development and building a

53:39

strategy and getting to the next level.

53:41

So thank you so much for taking

53:43

the time today to talk to us once again. Everything

53:45

will be in the show notes about you if people want to

53:47

connect. I love your content. I've been

53:49

following you for, I think, over 10 years. It's

53:52

been a while, but thank you for being here

53:54

with us today. Yes, you

53:56

guys have me. Always love what you guys do. You

53:58

guys are Venus is

54:00

in the trading community man. It's, it's,

54:02

yeah, I think everyone should look into

54:05

what you guys are doing if they

54:07

haven't already. Thank you. Thank you.