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bundles, closures, frontels to

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weeks. We offer extensive

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customisation options to make

1:25

unique requirements. It is kind

1:28

of fascinating. Here we are in

1:30

like 2025. We deal with spam

1:32

for three decades and we

1:34

still can't get on top

1:36

of just outright rubbish like

1:38

this. I'm going to go

1:40

through there and the ticketing

1:42

system. I'm going to mark

1:44

that as spam and then I

1:46

will never get any more again

1:49

and it will be solved. Yeah,

1:51

anyway. It doesn't quite work

1:53

that way. Where are we? Who's here?

1:55

No division. Good evening, so

1:58

you're somewhere else. Just

2:00

after 7 o'clock in the morning

2:02

tomorrow. At the moment here in

2:05

Australia, I would Valentine's Day.

2:07

Happy Valentine's Day. So first and

2:09

other breaches on Valentine's Day.

2:11

Mark says from home improvements to

2:13

hair extensions. Covering the topics

2:15

true. Yeah, let's talk about

2:17

some more of the home

2:19

improvement stuff in the moment

2:21

as well. Scott's here as well. Did

2:24

I Scott? Did you put photos of

2:26

your new thing on the public thing

2:28

or just on the Facebook thing? You

2:30

should share your new thing, because

2:32

it looks, it does look very

2:35

cool, man, I'll give you full

2:37

credit for that. Wayne says

2:39

the game seems a bit high,

2:41

oh it might be, yeah. Let's turn

2:43

this down, and the reason

2:46

why it might be, that's

2:48

not making much difference,

2:50

that's one. Let's try this

2:52

one. Yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe.

2:54

The reason why it might be,

2:56

I can probably, can I

2:58

tweak it there. Can't tweak

3:00

it there. Lock volume,

3:03

I don't want to do that.

3:05

I was taking the PC

3:07

apart the other day. If I

3:10

speak a bit quieter, is

3:12

that audio okay or is

3:14

it still feeling like gains

3:16

too much? Oh, I found the

3:18

button. I found the button.

3:21

That's much better, isn't

3:23

it? I can see the levels

3:25

look much better. I've got

3:27

this focus right. Digital

3:30

to analog converters there, and

3:32

it sits on top of

3:34

the PC. And I was

3:36

processing data that exceeded

3:38

all of my capacities. Marx is

3:41

quite a bit less pain. I'm

3:43

going to get just a tad,

3:45

tad, tad high. Okay. I think

3:47

that's pretty much back to

3:49

where it is, based on levels

3:51

I can see here. I was processing

3:54

a data breach. It still

3:56

looks. This is nothing. I don't

3:58

say it's nothing too exciting. actually

4:00

really interesting because more than a terabyte worth

4:02

the data. But I was going through this

4:04

data and I realized I had no capacity

4:07

left. I'm looking around me and I had

4:09

like a spare 22 terabyte disk over there

4:11

which I tried to put in my my

4:13

synology rack mounted NAS the other day and

4:15

it was an incompatible drive and it got upset.

4:17

I actually put two in there, one of them

4:20

it accepted and the other one I didn't, W.D.

4:22

Red. So the one it didn't accept I

4:24

tried that, apparently that doesn't doesn't

4:26

work. put that in the machine here and

4:28

then a look around there's another 10 terabyte

4:30

disk there which I must have upgraded from

4:33

somewhere. So pulling the PC part, getting the

4:35

disk in in order to put a terabyte

4:37

with the steel logs and there that I

4:40

can start extracting data out into and

4:42

then quasi processing it bits, needing

4:44

multiple terabytes, pulled the whole PC

4:46

apart, obviously bumped the knob. So thank

4:48

you for raising that. Sorry about the high

4:50

game before. Let's do sponsor. which is actually

4:53

really interesting this week. So

4:55

there's one password again, no

4:57

surprises there. One password needs

5:00

no introduction, but just to

5:02

sort of recap on the angle

5:04

that one password is on these days,

5:06

very much around a ZAM,

5:08

extended accessibility manager, it's secure

5:10

every sign in for every

5:12

app on every device. They've

5:14

got a new marketing agency

5:16

that sends a bunch of... host

5:18

ad lib points and not in here

5:20

which I think is actually the most

5:23

interesting thing is the Red Bull F

5:25

one team sponsorship that came out this

5:27

week. Now I'm not sure if you've

5:29

seen this but I like it's one

5:31

of these things where I got up in

5:33

the morning and I looked at this

5:36

pre coffee. It's like what? Really? That's

5:38

cool. One password Red Bull F one.

5:40

I had had a little bit of

5:42

an inkling about this some time ago

5:44

because One Passward sponsored the Presidents Cup in

5:47

Montreal and Canada which Charlotte and I went

5:49

along to in September, I think end of

5:51

September last year. Really awesome event. It was

5:53

just for such a company that have known

5:55

for so long and they started from

5:57

humble beginnings and I started using

5:59

them in 2011 now, geez, yeah we're 14

6:02

years in, and watching them grow and then

6:04

turning up to like this major international

6:06

golf tournament, which is if

6:08

you've ever been a golf

6:10

tournament, it's massive because of

6:12

all the golf courses, and everywhere

6:14

you walk was like one password stuff

6:16

everywhere and I was like, wow how

6:19

did we get to this point? And

6:21

sometime after that I spoke to someone

6:23

there... responsible for marketing and he'd sort

6:25

of said something like, oh look, it

6:27

was a really big success. You know,

6:29

I think about maybe doing something in

6:32

F1 and like, oh, maybe you'll go

6:34

to an F1 event and there'll be

6:36

a one password logo somewhere. And now

6:38

this is like literally one password

6:40

CEO sitting down with Christian Horner,

6:42

the team principal of Redball, for

6:45

those of you who've watching drives

6:47

to survive, you know all about this. Or

6:49

you're just interested in formula

6:51

on. But this is just super cool.

6:53

Not only sponsoring them, but

6:56

inevitably from a bunch of

6:58

material I've read, actually doing a

7:00

bunch of internal stuff to help

7:02

Red Bull, the most successful team

7:04

in Formula One for the last

7:06

few years, secure their internal things.

7:08

Will we see one password logo

7:10

on Oracle Red Bull Racing Car

7:12

this year? So this is the

7:15

Q&R1 password. Yes. One password while

7:17

ago will be visible on the

7:19

form of the one cars driven

7:21

by Maxis Dappin and Liam Lawson.

7:23

This includes on the car's body,

7:25

inside the protective hail, look if

7:27

you've ever watched F1 it has to be

7:29

one of the most sponsored events possible

7:32

just because you've got the car

7:34

and the race suit and the

7:36

helmet and the pits and there

7:38

are so many different places where

7:40

you get sponsorship designed to maximise

7:42

the exposure. Inside the protective

7:44

halo above the driver's head. So

7:46

you're going to get that from the driver's

7:49

view. On the steering wheel, digital

7:51

display during its startup sequence. So when they

7:53

start the car, they're going to see on

7:55

this. How much, it's got some big F1

7:57

fan, how much an F1 steering wheel? cost.

8:00

It's like tens if not hundreds

8:02

of thousands of pounds. Like it's

8:04

ridiculous. You're going to have

8:06

one password logo on there. That's wild.

8:09

What do you love the most about

8:11

Formula One? Okay, then that sort of

8:13

goes on and on. But, um, there's

8:15

an interview with Melton, so Melton's the

8:17

chief marketing officer for one

8:19

password. Great guy, really interesting to

8:21

talk to. But it's just so cool

8:24

to see this. So anyway, I think I

8:26

should go along to a formula one. I

8:28

was going to say four in one match,

8:30

one race as a, Scott says maybe

8:32

a couple of hundred grand. Yeah,

8:34

just for the steering wheel. Yeah,

8:37

which could probably, probably

8:39

buy the very nice car Scott who's

8:41

just posted photos of on his socials.

8:44

Good choice Scott, I'm happy with that.

8:46

And I like the fact that it

8:48

has a turbo. I think that's

8:50

great. You're never going to

8:52

live that down. I think I should go

8:54

along to form the one match. One

8:57

match, Formula One race, and hang out

8:59

with one password like we did

9:01

at the presence cup. Anyway, so

9:03

getting back to extended access management,

9:05

one of the things that I

9:07

was actually speaking to, to Mountain

9:09

About just recently, is it really

9:12

interesting to start mapping some of

9:14

the data breaches we've seen that

9:16

took advantage of effectively unmanaged devices

9:18

or devices that were not sufficiently

9:20

managed, managed that could be identified

9:23

by ZAM and supported. by extended

9:25

access management. So I want to

9:27

try and tie these things together

9:30

rather than it just being a read

9:32

the script. So yeah, let's see. Let's see

9:34

what comes up. We'll see what we can

9:36

do in that space. Now for those of

9:38

you wondering what Scott's talking about. Scott

9:41

has bought a car that has, we'll

9:43

see if anyone here can pick what

9:45

car it is, because I would have

9:47

known immediately. And I still gave

9:49

him hell for it. What car is being sold

9:51

today with the word turbo in it that not

9:53

only doesn't have a turbo but it doesn't have

9:56

an internal combustion? That you buy this car which

9:58

is purely electric and there's a big... turbo

10:00

on it which I think is

10:02

interesting. The same manufacturer

10:05

used to have their halo car

10:07

the one at the very top

10:09

would always be called turbo and

10:11

now they've got turbos in a

10:13

bunch of the other ones but

10:15

they're not turbos it's only

10:18

the one at the top which is

10:20

the turbo. Marxists McCann

10:22

in the right vicinity but

10:24

no. All right let's... Let's just

10:26

start with the controversial stuff,

10:29

the Doge thing, oh boy, people

10:31

got upset about this. So,

10:33

you know how things are a bit

10:35

weird in America at the moment?

10:38

You know, like especially at the

10:40

moment. And somehow Trump

10:42

and Elon got elected, I

10:44

think that's the way it

10:47

works. And incidentally, like as an

10:49

Ozzy watching this, and you know, it's... Scott's

10:51

in the UK, I know there's a bunch

10:53

of people in here that are in the

10:55

US, but as people outside the US watching

10:57

this, I feel like we have a much greater

10:59

understanding of your politics than you do ours.

11:01

And I'm sure that if I was to

11:03

ask most of you who our Prime Minister

11:05

was, you wouldn't know. And I actually have

11:08

to stop and think about it carefully. Yes,

11:10

we do have one, we don't have a

11:12

President's Prime Minister. But we

11:14

see so much of what happens in the US.

11:16

There's so much the popular culture in the world,

11:18

as censored around the US. Most of the movies

11:20

we watch are American movies. We see so much

11:22

US politics, and we see so much the drums

11:25

unfolding. But we see it from this distant lens,

11:27

where we're sort of up here on the other

11:29

side of the world, kind of eating the popcorn

11:31

for a little bit. And in many ways, it

11:33

doesn't have as direct an impact. It certainly impacts

11:36

us in many other ways. We've seen

11:38

things like currency fluctuations fluctuations

11:40

fluctuations. Trump getting in which incidentally

11:42

had been very good for us because

11:44

most of what we earn is in

11:46

US dollars and that's been getting very

11:48

strong lately. But it is a little bit

11:51

of a soap opera to watch this. And as

11:53

I said before I think one of the

11:55

things that I absolutely lament the most about

11:57

the way it's been in the US, I'd

11:59

say probably since that 2016 election era

12:01

is how just utterly polarizing

12:04

it seems to be. And you end up

12:06

with people that are so vehemently

12:08

on one side or vehemently on

12:10

the other side, just aggressive angrily

12:13

so and anything that happens on

12:15

the left is work culture and

12:17

anything that happens on the right

12:20

is Nazis and it just... I was sort

12:22

of a shell about this one and she

12:24

said it's like watching children in

12:27

kindergarten and kindergarten. So yeah,

12:29

it is. A lot of

12:31

this is like watching True

12:33

and Kindergarten. And what

12:36

it means is it's

12:38

so hard when there is

12:40

a piece of news to filter

12:42

through what is one side

12:44

being hyperbolic about

12:47

the other side. Now with that

12:49

in mind, there are loads

12:51

of sound grabs. Especially

12:53

from Trump and Elon, when you look

12:56

at the sound grab and you just

12:58

go, what are you thinking? Like this

13:00

is ridiculous. However, depending on where you

13:02

watch, you get the ones that paint that

13:04

narrative. And I think what's become interesting,

13:07

what's the ones that paint that

13:09

narrative. And I think what's become

13:11

interesting, as Twitter is probably, Twitter

13:13

has definitely gone from very left

13:15

leaning, to I would argue much

13:17

more central. It's not a gab

13:19

or a gab or a parlor,

13:21

and if it's a different kinds.

13:23

and it is extreme on one

13:25

side. So, the Doge situation where

13:27

it does seem odd that Elon has

13:29

been a point. Is he seeing the interview

13:32

this week? There's another one of

13:34

these things where I got up

13:36

like pre-cofi and I'm looking at

13:38

this going, is this like from

13:41

Saturday Night Live or something

13:43

like, why is Elon standing

13:45

behind Trump with that stupid

13:47

hat and a jacket and his

13:50

kids there picking his nose? Like,

13:52

what? Anyway, it's entertaining.

13:55

The Doe situation in

13:57

terms of the fact that...

13:59

I've got a bunch of young guys,

14:02

I keep seeing the words kids used,

14:04

and again, look at the language which

14:06

is constantly used by both sides to

14:09

paint an otherwise factual situation with

14:11

their own bias and negativity.

14:13

I keep saying the word

14:15

kids, they're not the young

14:17

adults. Maybe because you're old

14:19

enough like me, that they seem

14:21

like kids, but when you're in

14:23

your mid-20s, you're not a... kid,

14:25

bany, and he stretched the imagination.

14:27

What tech bros is the other

14:29

word, or the other term, which

14:31

is obviously a negative slight

14:33

on the fact that they're all

14:35

males. That seems to be the

14:38

context of that's used in. It's

14:40

obviously a very different way

14:42

of approaching access to government

14:44

systems, what we used to, and this

14:47

is what we're sort of getting to

14:49

now. The fact that... You do have

14:51

these guys that Elon's brought in which

14:53

now have access to these systems. And

14:55

the reason why this came across my

14:57

radar this week, for the most part

15:00

this is politics. And then it

15:02

does get into my wheelhouse because it's

15:04

data breaches. So Kim Zeta's written a

15:06

story here. And she's quoted the headline

15:08

here. She said, this is the largest IT

15:11

security breach in our country's history.

15:13

You can't unring this bell. Once

15:15

these those guys have access to

15:17

these data systems, they can easily...

15:19

Oh that's sorry, they can

15:21

ostensibly do what they want.

15:23

Now, I took issue with the

15:26

characterization that it is a data

15:28

breach or be the largest one

15:30

in the country's history.

15:32

And the reason I took issue with

15:34

it, we'll go through the tweet I

15:37

quoted here and then some more

15:39

backstory on this. I just read

15:41

my tweet. I said, I've had

15:44

a few people flaggers with

15:46

me as a data breach. It's not.

15:48

It's authorized access. Not liking that authorization

15:50

does not make it a data breach.

15:52

If one of these guys and accidentally leaks

15:55

it all over the place to unauthorized parties,

15:57

then it's a data breach. Now I thought

15:59

this was... pretty obvious. They have been

16:01

given access to the system by

16:04

authorized parties. That's how it was

16:06

done. That was someone who has

16:08

the authorization to be able to

16:10

give other people authorization. There is

16:12

this parallel thread here where a

16:14

lot of people are unhappy with

16:16

the fact that the tech bro

16:18

children, to use the term as it's negatively

16:20

applied, have access to that data.

16:22

There are people who say it's

16:24

outright illegal and I'll point to

16:26

the... judge rescinding access and I'll

16:28

point to the EFF taking their

16:30

lawsuit. A lot of this is

16:32

politicking and arguing about who should

16:35

have access to what and whether

16:37

or not there was the authority

16:39

from the president, I assume

16:41

it came from him before went

16:43

to Musk, the authority to access

16:45

this data. And they're all relevant

16:48

and valid discussions but none of

16:50

it changes the fact that they

16:52

were given access by an authorized

16:55

party. I think a lot

16:57

of this gets very into the weeds very

16:59

quickly. So a lot of the argument

17:01

I've seen and a lot of the pushback

17:03

I saw on this was the fact that,

17:05

well they could then provide that to other

17:07

parties. Well yes, like anyone with

17:09

access to an authorized system could

17:12

then provide it to other parties and then

17:14

it becomes a data breach. And right in

17:16

the back of my mind I suddenly got

17:18

that memory of here in Australia

17:20

and there many other similar

17:23

examples. Some years ago... Someone

17:25

in an authorized privilege position

17:27

to our Medicare system was

17:29

selling Medicare details. So Medicare

17:31

Details is like your Medicare

17:33

number is effectively like your

17:35

health provider ID here. And they were

17:37

selling that data to other buyers. Each

17:39

instance of that was a data breach. Authorized

17:41

party meant to have access, they abused the

17:44

access to do something which then turned it

17:46

into a breach. Now look we'll see all

17:48

this legal stuff ends up but you know

17:50

even that is so hard to pick these

17:52

days. Oh sure Trump was going to jail.

17:54

Like isn't that the way it panned out?

17:56

He was guilty of all these criminal charges

17:58

he's going to jail. And now he's sitting

18:01

in the White House with Elon's five-year-old

18:03

son picking his nose. You know, like how

18:05

did that end up? So I guess we'll see

18:08

how that legal side of it plays

18:10

out, but I just... I lament the

18:12

fact that something that we could look

18:14

at very objectively and factually encircle like

18:17

a bunch of people got access to

18:19

this data to do analysis. It's highly

18:21

unusual. There are risks, there are potential

18:23

upsides as well. You know, it might

18:26

actually be that they find some

18:28

inefficiency. And honestly, how many

18:30

times have all of us looked

18:32

at government and gone, gee, that

18:34

seems like a waste? I'm sure they'll

18:36

find some stuff. I'm absolutely sure

18:39

they'll find stuff. Now, will it

18:41

be to the volume that Elon

18:43

talks up? And again, I say this

18:45

as an outsider, just watching the

18:48

news, mostly for entertainment

18:50

purposes. I don't know, but we know

18:52

that at least the representations of

18:54

why they are there and what

18:56

they're there to do. does have some

18:58

basis in fact. In so far as

19:00

there's a lot of wastage. So I

19:03

think we'll see what it what it

19:05

actually turns into. It's all just so

19:07

weird. It's so weird at the moment.

19:09

And then there was that one with

19:11

that handle of big balls because

19:13

I just noticed Jackie Sider here covering

19:15

on my thread. He's like big balls

19:18

did leak it. It's where he got

19:20

fired or so I heard. Now Jack

19:22

later rescinded into that position because even

19:24

I as a non-American. No, that

19:26

that bit was not quite right because then

19:29

he came back and he said, oh sorry

19:31

that was 2022. Media led me astray

19:33

on that one. Yeah, but this is

19:35

the point. I've got to watch my

19:37

step. So from memory without clicking through

19:39

Jack Lincoln reading the whole thing, that

19:41

guy had worked for some other firm

19:43

where he had leaked some information that

19:45

he wasn't meant to and I'm not

19:47

sure that it was quite as blatantly malicious

19:50

as that, but... The stories get conflated,

19:52

the headline gets picked up, we all

19:54

have our own confirmation biases, so we

19:56

pick the thing that works for us,

19:58

and then we share that in the

20:00

story. replicates regardless of whether

20:02

it's accurate or not. And you

20:04

know, just reading the comments

20:07

here, it's kind of

20:09

infuriating for a combination of the

20:11

things that are just so

20:13

clearly blatantly wrong, but also

20:15

the things that are so

20:18

clearly blatantly highly emotional. You

20:20

know, one person here has

20:22

said, if they have more

20:24

than read-only access, it is

20:26

a data breach. It's

20:29

just so, Daniel's comment,

20:31

crazy timeline where you're in.

20:34

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's so

20:36

weird. All right. Whether or

20:38

not you have read access or

20:40

read and write access is not

20:42

the qualifier for a data

20:44

breach. There's a lot of

20:47

data breaches and have I

20:49

been poned where someone has

20:51

taken a database backup. They

20:53

can't write to the original source.

20:55

But it is a data, that

20:58

is, no, that there's nowhere in

21:00

the definition of data breach. And

21:02

incidentally, just to sort of go

21:04

back to this, let's get that

21:07

definition data breach, because I think

21:09

this is what tends to get missed.

21:11

See if ChatGPT can give it to

21:13

me to me to find. I won't

21:15

ask Deep Seek or I will get

21:17

a very different answer. I know everyone's

21:20

throwing the same sort of prompts

21:22

at Deep Seek, but it is fascinating

21:24

to throw some... Throw some carefully worded

21:26

prompts in there that you're going to

21:29

get very very different answers from from

21:31

a Chinese backed service. The data

21:33

breach is an incident where

21:36

sensitive, confidential, protected information is

21:38

access disclosed or stolen without

21:40

authorization. And again, there is authorization.

21:42

You might not like the authorization, but

21:44

there is authorization. And then the counter

21:47

argument then will be, well, there shouldn't

21:49

have been authorization because it was someone

21:51

who was unauthorized to do the authorization.

21:56

There's another angle I want to come back to

21:58

in the moment, but let me read through some of

22:00

these. comments here. Yeah, someone said here,

22:02

Snowden manning all authorized access to

22:04

write, they all had authorization and

22:06

allowed access to information. Are we

22:09

applying consistent standards? Well, yes, they

22:11

did all have authorization and it

22:13

wasn't a data breach until they

22:15

took the data and they sent

22:17

it to an authorized party. Like

22:19

can you see where it becomes

22:22

a data breach? So this is,

22:24

it's that redistribution to the unauthorized

22:26

parties that is the problem. So

22:31

when he says, I don't know

22:33

why this is so controversial, I

22:35

mean, you can dislike that Musk

22:38

and his Danish team were given

22:40

access, but they're clearly authorized, the

22:43

head of the executive branch himself,

22:45

President Trump. And then people will

22:47

argue with that, and then I'll

22:50

say, well, the president's not able

22:52

to authorize it. You just go

22:54

around and around, around, so here's

22:57

another way to think about it.

22:59

And that's... The

23:03

clear definition of the data breach

23:05

is around unauthorized access. And there

23:07

was authorization here and then there's

23:09

the argument about whether it should

23:11

have been granted or not. I

23:13

would argue that there are other

23:15

characteristics that we often see in

23:17

data breaches that are not present

23:19

here. One of those characteristics is

23:21

malice. There will be some people

23:23

who go, yes, but Elon is

23:25

trying to erode the United States

23:27

from the inside to line his

23:29

own wallet. Now maybe there's a

23:31

degree of that, I'm sure there's

23:34

a lot of stuff that's in

23:36

his own interest, but in terms

23:38

of whether or not the data

23:40

was accessed with the intent of

23:42

causing harm, which we see in

23:44

so many data breaches, doesn't seem

23:46

to be the case. It's not

23:48

the case, until proven otherwise, it's

23:50

not it. Often the data is

23:52

accessed in order to extort the

23:54

owner of the data. We see

23:56

this with ransomware, we increasingly see

23:58

this with classic data breaches, you

24:00

get your database backup. give me

24:02

money or I'm going to leak

24:04

the thing publicly. Clearly extortion is

24:06

not the goal here. We often

24:08

see being used data breaches in

24:10

order to build someone's credibility. How

24:13

many times have I been paying?

24:15

The person that sent this to

24:17

me asked me to attribute it

24:19

to blah. That's not the case

24:21

here. All of the typical, almost

24:23

sort of side effects of a

24:25

data breach. are not present here.

24:27

Another side effect of data breach

24:29

is that usually, hopefully, there's some

24:31

form of disclosure either to the

24:33

regulator or in an ideal world

24:35

to the impact individuals as well.

24:37

We're not obviously seeing that. You

24:39

know, when someone fronts up and

24:41

starts making submissions to each of

24:43

the state regulatory bodies about the

24:45

fact that there's been a data

24:47

breach due to Doge, then we

24:49

can have that discussion. But that's

24:52

not going to happen. So we'll

24:54

see. I just fear that even

24:56

if this... I think it's fair

24:58

to say experiment of giving a

25:00

bunch of young guys access to

25:02

this data, even if it turns

25:04

out to empirically be positive. There'll

25:06

be a bunch of people who'll

25:08

be very upset about it. I'm

25:10

sure by the same token, if

25:12

Trump solved World Hunger tomorrow, there'd

25:14

be a bunch of people who'd

25:16

be very upset about it. Because

25:18

we're just at a point where

25:20

there are so many people in

25:22

that mindset. Again, going both ways

25:24

as well. Geez, how long we

25:26

sit here and complain about how

25:28

much... Republicans would just lose their

25:31

mind over ridiculous stuff. Anyway, Daniel

25:33

says, isn't it all public spending?

25:35

Nah. James says they weren't vetted

25:37

through the usual process. I don't

25:39

think was legal. Yeah, and look,

25:41

I mean, we've heard that a

25:43

lot as well. I'm going to...

25:45

as I say, stay in my

25:47

lane about the data reach stuff.

25:49

I don't know what the legal

25:51

requirement for vetting is. I honestly

25:53

don't know the actual level of

25:55

access these guys have. Look, I

25:57

do think it's... pretty extensive because

25:59

you then hear Elon when he's

26:01

there with little Elon in Trump's

26:03

office the other day talking about

26:05

much more specific examples about you

26:08

know descriptions on costs and things

26:10

not being submitted on Treasury expenses.

26:12

Well I assume you'd have to

26:14

see the expense then to notice

26:16

that hey this person spent a

26:18

billion dollars and there's no coding

26:20

against it. So anyway the only

26:22

thing we know for sure. is

26:24

it's going to be fun and

26:26

entertaining for quite some time here.

26:28

I think. All right, speaking of

26:30

fun and entertaining, we redesigning the

26:32

Have A Bampone user experience. Now,

26:34

I mean, speaking for ages about

26:36

doing the branding stuff and some

26:38

UX work, the brand work is

26:40

almost complete. I'm pretty happy with

26:42

what we've got. When I'm really,

26:44

really happy, I'll share it publicly.

26:47

We are now transitioning into the

26:49

design aspect of the website. And

26:51

from there, so this is going

26:53

to be very much a visual

26:55

design that the themes and the

26:57

color, what are the buttons and

26:59

forms and stuff like that look

27:01

like. And then from there, we've

27:03

actually got to start designing more

27:05

of the user experience in terms

27:07

of things like when you do

27:09

a search for a data breach

27:11

and you see the results. Yeah,

27:13

someone had a good suggestion for

27:15

me yesterday, they said, it would

27:17

be good if when you do

27:19

the search. the one password stuff.

27:21

So you know, you get, let's

27:23

just see what it looks like.

27:26

We go to have a Ben

27:28

phone, what did I design now?

27:30

It's a long time ago. You

27:32

go to have a Ben phone,

27:34

big email address box, and just

27:36

under that it generates QUNIC passwords

27:38

for every account, it's one password

27:40

product placement. Just like you see

27:42

on the Formula One car in

27:44

2025 season. You go in there,

27:46

that's fine. You whack in your

27:48

email address, tested example.com. That guy

27:50

has been in every breach. Every

27:52

breach. And then

27:54

you get the results and you've

27:57

got a fairly substantial one-passward banner.

27:59

on top of that. And then

28:01

you've actually got to scroll down,

28:03

possibly beneath the fold, before you

28:05

see the results. And someone sort

28:07

of pointed out the other day,

28:09

that is a, it's not a

28:11

good UX pattern, and I completely

28:13

agree. And I think what we

28:15

should do is we should give

28:18

that one password stuff, first of

28:20

all, completely visually redesigned, but then

28:22

sitting down beneath those sets of

28:24

breaches. So that's a really good

28:26

example. The other thing is like

28:28

I look at the front page

28:30

at the moment. Let's just reload

28:32

that and get rid of the

28:34

results. And other than the numbers

28:36

and the breaches, it has not

28:39

changed since 2013. Now one of

28:41

the questions that people keep asking

28:43

is like, why redesign it if

28:45

it works? Well, because it can

28:47

work better, much much better. I

28:49

don't know that it makes a

28:51

lot of sense to have all

28:53

the headline numbers we have there

28:55

on the front page, at least

28:57

not taking up so much space.

29:00

14 billion, 647 million, 463,223 pound

29:02

accounts. Okay, we could probably round

29:04

that a little bit, maybe take

29:06

up some less space. We've got

29:08

the latest breaches and the most

29:10

recently added breaches. Maybe again, we

29:12

could optimize that a little bit,

29:14

but there's a lot of stuff

29:16

missing from here that needs to

29:18

be there. So for example, people

29:21

that have got subscriptions for API

29:23

keys and domains. Like, where's the

29:25

subscription link? people that are interested

29:27

in taking them out. Where's the

29:29

bit that explains what the service

29:31

actually does? It wasn't in there

29:33

to begin with because I didn't

29:35

think anymore take it seriously. I

29:37

didn't worry about it. So there's

29:39

loads of stuff like that. I

29:42

would really really like to see

29:44

better visualizations and in fact the

29:46

the vision that I have in

29:48

mind here is that we will

29:50

go to the point where everyone

29:52

has effectively their own subscriber page.

29:54

And there will be some subscribers

29:56

that pay some money for the

29:58

API keys and demos. main searches,

30:00

but then the vast bulk of

30:02

people will just be normal everyday

30:05

people who have a subscriber page

30:07

that lists, excuse me, the data

30:09

breaches at the Baining, just like

30:11

when you do a search today,

30:13

it will also list their opt-out

30:15

settings, it will also list their

30:17

sensitive breaches, this is after sort

30:19

of post email verification, and then

30:21

it might also have a bunch

30:23

of visualisations. So how cool would

30:26

it be to take... the data

30:28

that is in there about so

30:30

many of us now, especially when

30:32

we've been in lots of breaches,

30:34

and visualize it in a way

30:36

that is more readily consumable. So

30:38

they're the sorts of things that

30:40

we're trying to work out at

30:42

the moment, and I suggested to

30:44

Stefan, who's messaging me on the

30:47

back channel, but not listening here,

30:49

I suggested to Stefan that maybe

30:51

we should just get to a

30:53

point of sufficient confidence where we've

30:55

got the brand and the basic

30:57

website design layout, and then we'll

30:59

just open source the whole source

31:01

the whole lot. and we'll just

31:03

have a static website and we'll

31:05

seek input. And up until that

31:08

point, I'd really like to get

31:10

more input from people where they

31:12

can say, and then this is

31:14

the Twitter put out the other

31:16

day, it's like, hey, look, we've

31:18

read it on the UX, what

31:20

would you like to see? And

31:22

I did have some really good

31:24

suggestions, that moving that product placement

31:26

form password being one of them.

31:29

So that's what we're working on.

31:31

At least once we have this

31:33

new design and this new model

31:35

done I think we'll be able

31:37

to iterate a lot more quickly

31:39

when we have good ideas. But

31:41

if you do have ideas, I'd

31:43

really really like to get those

31:45

through because now's the easiest time

31:47

while we're designing static pages. James

31:50

says when the site was started

31:52

I was highly skeptical. Why should

31:54

I give this guy my email?

31:56

So I've had this question so

31:58

many times and people like why

32:00

should I trust you with my

32:02

email? My email is private. No,

32:04

it's not. Your email address doesn't

32:06

work unless you give it to

32:08

other people. That's the whole point,

32:11

the email. It's like a phone

32:13

number. And then I go, well,

32:15

you're happy. giving it to like

32:17

LinkedIn and Dropbox Nation, weren't you?

32:19

Well, yeah? Why won't you put

32:21

it in here? You know, like

32:23

this is not a massive email

32:25

harvesting campaign. I guess one of

32:27

the things, I just think about

32:29

everything that's changed, one of the

32:32

things that is very different now

32:34

and that we could lean on

32:36

more is that this service is

32:38

used by so many big companies

32:40

and governments and has been so

32:42

extensively covered in the press. I'll

32:44

come back to the reseller thing

32:46

later. That's in the press now.

32:48

I could probably have logos there

32:50

that make it look important, but

32:53

I feel a bit stupid. We'll

32:55

see. I guess the point is

32:57

it has now become a mainstream

32:59

respectable service. So maybe that needs

33:01

to get a bit reflected somewhere

33:03

without being too obnoxious about it.

33:05

Again, if you have ideas about

33:07

how to do that, I think

33:09

it might be a bridge too

33:11

far to go and start listing

33:14

all the law enforcement agencies or

33:16

governments that we're working with, but

33:18

maybe somewhere there there's a section

33:20

of yoga, however being planned, currently

33:22

provides support to these governments and

33:24

there's just like a series of

33:26

flags. a investment research company and

33:28

they had a breach several years

33:30

ago, about 9 million people in

33:32

total, they'd end up having a

33:34

vampire. This week, this week, last

33:37

week. Well actually it goes back

33:39

further than that. Yesterday I added

33:41

another Zexider Beach, 12 million people.

33:43

Now this appears to be a

33:45

breach that happened in about the

33:47

middle of last year from memory.

33:50

It then appeared for sale on a

33:52

popular for sale or download I can't

33:54

remember which one it appeared on a

33:56

popular hacking forum 25th Jan. There's a

33:58

story here from Dark Web Informer on

34:01

the same date showing this. The hacking

34:03

forum in question has published a bunch

34:05

of PII data in the advertisement for

34:07

it. Someone sent me the data very

34:09

recently. I've gone through verified it and

34:11

I've spoken a lot about how I

34:13

do verification before but it's interesting verifying

34:16

something which is a subsequent breach of

34:18

the prior thing. Because you can go

34:20

through and you can pull out all

34:22

the email addresses prior to the breach

34:24

date of breach one and they come

34:26

back and have been poned as belonging

34:29

to Zax and then all the newer

34:31

stuff comes back as not belonging to

34:33

Zax. So it was quite easy to

34:35

go back and go yep all the

34:37

old stuff does actually appear in the

34:39

previous breach which they disclosed as well

34:41

so there's no argument about that. All

34:44

the new stuff doesn't. but they do

34:46

have enumeration vectors which made it easy

34:48

to verify that those email addresses do

34:50

indeed exist on the site. And then

34:52

I'm left in this conundrum again where

34:54

we've got the situation where there's a

34:57

post on a hacking forum alleging, you

34:59

could use that word, alleging a data

35:01

breach. So all right let's let's get

35:03

in touch with them. So I contact

35:05

their support address which is the published

35:07

address. Can't get anything. I've been chatting

35:09

to a well-known infosect journal. He can't

35:12

get anything either. I'm like, okay, I'll

35:14

do what I normally do, I'll go

35:16

to LinkedIn, and I will find the

35:18

CTO, and I will go through, and

35:20

I will contact them, and I'll say,

35:22

and I will contact them, and I'll

35:25

say, hey, look, there's this thing, don't

35:27

know if you're aware, can I send

35:29

you the CTO, because they still haven't

35:31

replied to the message I sent them

35:33

about their last data breach, and I

35:35

sent them about their last data breach,

35:37

and I sent them about their last

35:40

data breach. On to the Twitter, sending

35:42

messages on Twitter, anyone got a contact,

35:44

tagging them, they are active on the

35:46

Twitter. back. So anyway we didn't have

35:48

a phone yesterday. This must be nearly

35:50

24 hours ago now. Obviously a lot

35:53

of people got notifications because there's nearly

35:55

12 million people in the breach and

35:57

we see anywhere up to about 1%.

35:59

Now it was a bit under 1%

36:01

for these guys but we did send

36:03

some tens of thousands of email notifications

36:05

to our subscribers that are in there.

36:08

And so far no one has come

36:10

back and said look I didn't have

36:12

an account there it wasn't accurate. So

36:14

even though... of said alleged in the

36:16

breach description to align with what was

36:18

reported and the fact that I haven't

36:21

been able to get confirmation from them.

36:23

Excuse me. I think I can say

36:25

with a very high degree confidence that

36:27

this does appear to be legitimate data.

36:29

Ah, Stephen's here. Good timing. We're just

36:31

talking about you. I said I think

36:33

you're agreeing with me about something relevant.

36:36

So anyway, that's the X. That is

36:38

the X. Well, that. Yeah, anyway, that's

36:40

a data breach. Scott says, uh, technically,

36:42

have I been paying, it is a

36:44

massive email harvesting campaign. Yeah, but we

36:46

don't save them. That's the, well, I

36:49

guess if you talk about, do we,

36:51

we might harvest them from data breaches.

36:53

Sounds like a bad word, doesn't harvest

36:55

them. We might, um, aggregate them from

36:57

data breaches, but we certainly don't harvest

36:59

them, or store them, or capture them,

37:01

or capture them, or capture them, or

37:04

do them, or capture them, or capture

37:06

them, or capture them, or capture them,

37:08

or capture them, or capture them, or

37:10

capture them, or capture them, or capture

37:12

them, or capture them, or capture them,

37:14

or capture them, or capture them, or

37:17

capture them, or capture them, or capture

37:19

them, or capture them, or capture them,

37:21

or capture them, or capture them, or

37:23

capture them, or capture them, or capture

37:25

them, or capture them, or capture them,

37:27

or capture them, or capture them, or

37:29

capture them Now that I think about

37:32

like this, why would you? Like what

37:34

possible upside would there be when we're

37:36

sitting on billions and billions of email

37:38

addresses anyway? What possible upside would there

37:40

be when someone does a search to

37:42

save the... like what would we do

37:45

with it? Like, we're not going to

37:47

spam them directly and sell them something.

37:49

We're not going to sell their email

37:51

addresses for other people to span them

37:53

to buy hair extensions or something like

37:55

that. It would make absolutely no sense.

37:57

So no, we don't do that. Next

38:01

thing here. Incoming Stiller Logs. Now I

38:03

mentioned this just before and we've spoken

38:05

about Stiller Logs many times and they

38:08

do appear to be gaining let's say

38:10

notoriety. We're seeing so many different telegram

38:12

channels for example publishing Stiller Logs, so

38:14

many different Stiller Logs then republished onto

38:17

data reach forums. So many Stiller Logs

38:19

being used as the... the vector by

38:21

which people gain access to execute larger

38:23

data breaches. There are a massive massive

38:26

problem, but there are so many of

38:28

them and there's so much noise that

38:30

the trick for us with having been

38:32

found is to figure out how do

38:35

we get relevant information in front of

38:37

people without it just being like the

38:39

constantly ringing the Stiller log bell and

38:41

becoming obnoxious about it. Because there's a

38:44

lot of... discrete actual data breaches like

38:46

the allegedly Zach's situation as well. You

38:48

know that's still sort of the bread

38:50

and butter. Someone from a government sent

38:53

me a couple of files a couple

38:55

of weeks ago. A couple of steel

38:57

log files and they had about 15

39:00

million email addresses in them and I

39:02

started looking at it and went down

39:04

the rabbit hole of where that data

39:06

had first appeared in the telegram channel

39:09

it was posted in. And I was

39:11

actually about to publish just sort of

39:13

the 15 million because it was unique

39:15

enough, compared to the other data we

39:18

already hadn't have been poned. And of

39:20

course now, as of last month, we've

39:22

started adding the domains that email addresses

39:24

appear against in Steel Log as well.

39:27

So there's something else useful in there

39:29

for people. And I was about to

39:31

publish it, in fact, I even sent

39:33

Step from the passwords. I'm like, hey,

39:36

here's the passwords, mate, cure them all

39:38

up. And then I was like, oh,

39:40

oh, this, this, this, this isn't, this

39:42

isn't, this isn't, this isn't, this isn't,

39:45

this isn't, this isn't, this isn't, two

39:47

files, two files, two files, two files.

39:49

If you follow the leads, it's hundreds

39:52

and hundreds and hundreds of files. And

39:54

it's over a terabyte worth of... So

39:56

at the moment, and this is why

39:58

earlier on, before you joined Stephen, I

40:01

had the gain on my microphone all

40:03

screwed up because I've been pulling the

40:05

PC apart, trying to figure out where

40:07

I could fit another 10 terabyte disk

40:10

in order to do some data processing.

40:12

So now it is churning through these

40:14

files, trying to extract out the email

40:16

addresses into one pile. trying to extract

40:19

out the unique passwords into another and

40:21

I came down this morning and my

40:23

little console app had run out of

40:25

memory so I'm not doing that very

40:28

well and then also the email address

40:30

domain pairs same problem out of memory

40:32

I'll figure out what happened that later

40:34

we're trying to extract all of these

40:37

out and then sometime hopefully today those

40:39

processes will be fixed and finished and

40:41

we'll end up with a unique number

40:44

of email addresses which I suspect will

40:46

be I wonder if I am actually

40:48

using our, it's running here on the

40:50

other screen, I am using our email

40:53

extractor open source tool here. I think

40:55

it actually reports on progress as it

40:57

goes through, I'm not sure if that

40:59

reports across, oh yeah, addresses extracted 228

41:02

million. Yeah, so that's that's sizable, that's

41:04

very sizable. 228 million email addresses there.

41:06

We will get the distinct passwords with

41:08

counts and then we'll get the email

41:11

address and domain pairings out as well.

41:13

This is just going to take forever

41:15

because if it's 228 million unique email

41:17

addresses and then each one of those

41:20

appears across multiple domains, Kriki. Okay. Hopefully

41:22

next week we'll get this live. But

41:24

yeah, that will be another very substantial

41:26

set of data. I honestly still don't

41:29

know what the right answer is in

41:31

terms of how we handle this and

41:33

what sort of cadence we have. Like

41:35

on conscious we push stuff out in

41:38

the middle of next month, I called

41:40

it Jan 2025. And then people are

41:42

like, all right, so does that mean

41:45

that you're going to do like February

41:47

2025 and March? I don't really want

41:49

to set that. expectation because I don't

41:51

want to mean a situation where we

41:54

feel like we've got a forcibly pushed

41:56

through data and I also don't want

41:58

to be in a situation where there

42:00

needs to be like a monthly cadence.

42:03

It just feels more like when there

42:05

is a sufficiently new corpus of data

42:07

that's the time. Seffen says time to

42:09

scale up the DB I guess yeah

42:12

yeah man I think it will be.

42:14

The chart on my wall I'm still

42:16

looking at my big wall of charts

42:18

which I am going to blog it.

42:21

I just haven't got a few things

42:23

quite right. I saw you messing me

42:25

in the background, Stefan, something about those

42:27

error messages, but at the moment it's

42:30

showing loads of failed requests on my

42:32

Grafana chart, which doesn't make for a

42:34

good look. And then there's other stuff,

42:37

like I've got a chart here of

42:39

our email delivery, how many emails we're

42:41

delivering, based on the function. which sends

42:43

the email. So every time we send

42:46

an email we drop it in an

42:48

Azure storage account, we drop it in

42:50

a Q, it sits there, and then

42:52

a function picks it up and sends

42:55

it out via Sendgrid. And we should

42:57

be looking at function executions, but Stephen

42:59

yesterday I started doing an aggregated count

43:01

of that because I just wanted to

43:04

see a graph for like the last

43:06

12 hours how many emails have you

43:08

sent. And it was saying like 300,

43:10

when it should have been about 100,

43:13

and I just realized that... Grafana takes

43:15

a lot of time to get to

43:17

grips with. I absolutely love Grafana. It's

43:19

so cool. The graphs are amazing. But

43:22

I need a Grafana expert to just

43:24

sit down and go, okay, cool, right.

43:26

So here's how you do this. Here's

43:29

a little stuff like, I would like

43:31

the email delivery on that y-axis when

43:33

it gets past a thousand to put

43:35

a comma there. And allow this must

43:38

be easy because I've done Excel before

43:40

and I know that you just go

43:42

in you format the number. And then

43:44

you Google and it's like no you

43:47

really need to change that at the

43:49

data source. Which doesn't make sense to

43:51

me because wouldn't that at the data

43:53

source then convert that into a string

43:56

and obviously it's coming through as an

43:58

integer because I would have plotted on

44:00

a chart. So yeah, anyway. John Bresseau's

44:02

here, good idea, man. Hey, John, if

44:05

you know more about Grafana than me,

44:07

can you come around and help me?

44:09

Stefan says we can fix it. And

44:11

I'm sure we can, but the problem

44:14

is that I see so many of

44:16

these little things, and every time I

44:18

see one of these things, I'm like,

44:21

all right, let's just fix this one

44:23

little thing. And then half an hour

44:25

just disappears, just disappears, googling for Grafana

44:27

things. Yeah, so Scott says you really

44:30

really must know about the chart wall.

44:32

I just had another pie five arrive

44:34

yesterday to set this up in Charlotte's

44:36

office as well. She's, I just put

44:39

a spare, an old spare monitor in

44:41

there, but we're rebuilding her office as

44:43

part of rebuilding everything at the moment.

44:45

And I want to get one of

44:48

those Samsung frame TVs in her office,

44:50

because you can put like nice artwork

44:52

and stuff like that on it. Gary

44:54

has one. I mentioned Gary to you,

44:57

Scott, he's a guy with the cars

44:59

and the thing in the home theatre

45:01

room. They look really cool. So I'm

45:03

going to get that pie five set

45:06

up in her office with nice charts

45:08

and things and particularly where she's at

45:10

with tickets and stuff like that. Yeah,

45:13

but it does look really cool. John

45:15

says he wrote a custom data source

45:17

for octopus deploy to display deployment data

45:19

to Grafana. Oh yeah, that'll be cool.

45:22

The XDB is in jealous of your

45:24

office. It looks so comforting. It's a

45:26

really really cool office. This is normally

45:28

a bedroom and We've converted it into

45:31

an office and I mean mind you

45:33

it'll be it'll be 10 years since

45:35

September since I've been in this house

45:37

And this has just always been the

45:40

office because working from home and I

45:42

get a lot of space in here

45:44

and we did things like You know

45:46

built the desk which is the opening

45:49

is almost as wide as my arms

45:51

and I'm 197 centimetres tall so I'll

45:53

give you an idea. We built it

45:55

that wide so Charlotte and I could

45:58

sit here together with the wall of

46:00

screen and things like... paneling we did

46:02

to make stuff like this sound better

46:05

and it's just been gradually gradually gradually

46:07

over the years getting better and better

46:09

and better. COVID is partly to think

46:11

for that. In so far as we're

46:14

being stuck here I was like alright

46:16

let's make it really really cool in

46:18

this environment. The pennies is dropping for

46:20

John 10 years. Yeah so John is

46:23

a fellow Goldcuster here and John for

46:25

many years was trying to tell me

46:27

to move back to the goalcost where

46:29

I previously lived and loved. And yeah

46:32

that worked pretty well mate. We're getting

46:34

old dude. Maybe, I know. Stephen says

46:36

acoustic panels are awesome. So what I've

46:38

got, and there's blog post and stuff

46:41

on this, but on this wall here

46:43

and on the roof ceiling is acoustic

46:45

paneling that looks really cool and was

46:47

a nightmare to get done right. Mostly

46:50

because stuff was meant to join up

46:52

at the corners and it turns out

46:54

that... rooms that look like they're right

46:57

angles everywhere, don't actually have right angles

46:59

everywhere, because there's like weird, wavy things.

47:01

But we eventually got it right. There's

47:03

a few more things we want to

47:06

do yet. I'm really happy with the

47:08

TV. So anyway, yeah, Scott said I'd

47:10

like to see how I did that

47:12

wall of charts. I will write it

47:15

up. There's two things left I have

47:17

to do mechanically with the pie to

47:19

get right. So one. is I've got

47:21

to get the mouse cursor to hide.

47:24

So at the moment, the pie boots

47:26

up, automatically logs in, it pops open

47:28

chromium in kiosk mode, so it doesn't

47:30

have scroll bars or a dress bar

47:33

or anything like that. But then there's

47:35

just this one little mouse cursor, it's

47:37

sitting on the screen. And there's a

47:39

bunch of different packages that you can

47:42

install to make that hide. The 30

47:44

minutes I had to play with that

47:46

didn't get to work, I'm going to

47:49

pick that up again maybe today, make

47:51

that work before I set up, before

47:53

I set up, set up, set up,

47:55

set up, set up, set up, With

47:58

Grafana you can load a dashboard via

48:00

get request. There are multiple query string

48:02

parameters that can do things like set

48:04

the time period you're displaying so I've

48:07

gone with a 12 hour. time period

48:09

I found that was the most useful

48:11

because it means I can get up

48:13

in the morning I can see what's

48:16

happened overnight without having data that's too

48:18

useless before that I can see all

48:20

the database scales and things that happened

48:22

as soon as I walk in the

48:25

office. There's a refresh rate so how

48:27

often do I want the charts to

48:29

refresh and there is the parameter to

48:31

set it into kiosk mode and for

48:34

some reason even though they're sitting there

48:36

in the URL every single time this

48:38

dashboard loads after reboot those parameters are

48:40

not set correctly. So I end up

48:43

going into pie connect, which is effectively

48:45

RDP for the for the pie and

48:47

having to set the stuff and then

48:50

when I next reboot the pie for

48:52

whatever reason I have to reset it

48:54

all. So when I get those two

48:56

things right, I will have mechanically gotten

48:59

everything with the pie right. I can

49:01

set up as well. And then with

49:03

your help as well, Stefan, I just

49:05

want to get that dashboard just a

49:08

little bit more perfect and then I'll

49:10

be able to yeah to blog it

49:12

all up. It's not a hard thing.

49:14

tiny tiny little configuration things. The XDB

49:17

likes the black vibe, villainlyre. So as

49:19

Scott and John have seen as I've

49:21

been in our house here, Charlotte has

49:23

been Norwegian. She's got this very naughty

49:26

style, which I really like. There's a

49:28

really big thing here. I think being

49:30

a very beachy coastal area. really big

49:32

thing here of Hampton style, you must

49:35

have seen this John, Hampton style, will

49:37

have a place where it's all very

49:39

like light and beechy and I don't

49:42

know how else to describe it, it's

49:44

just just Google it. And you just

49:46

see it over and over and over

49:48

and over again and like it's a

49:51

nice style that because this is so

49:53

different, like people walk into this house

49:55

and like, holy shit like that is

49:57

awesome and the style that you see

50:00

in the house before. That's the thing

50:02

that persists throughout the house. Yeah, that's

50:04

really cool. But yes, it is a

50:06

dark style, but it's dark with a

50:09

lot of textures as well. So you

50:11

probably only get a bit of a

50:13

sense of it here, but there's a

50:15

lot of warm lights and nice textures

50:18

and patterns and things, so it doesn't

50:20

feel too villains lereish. I think it's

50:22

the right way to put it. If

50:26

XDB says you have that massive

50:28

ultra-wide monitor, right? I was looking

50:30

at Samsung G9. If you Google

50:32

Troy Hunt Ultimate Home Office, you'll

50:34

find these aspects. So yeah, I've

50:36

got an ultra-wide in the middle

50:39

and then two like normal wides

50:41

either side of it. And I

50:43

did that at the start of

50:45

COVID, so what are we now?

50:47

Probably five years ago. And to

50:49

this day, like that is just,

50:51

it is perfect. That is the

50:54

absolute perfect layout. So yes, yes

50:56

to that. Johnson's uninsulal the mouse

50:58

driver from the pie. I think

51:00

there's another way of doing that.

51:02

Just 64 big, who I feel

51:04

has come in after I had

51:06

the dose discussion, given the recent

51:09

breaches of essentially musk selling and

51:11

eventually selling everyone's data, is there

51:13

anywhere I can should or we

51:15

are just screwed? Go back and

51:17

watch the start of this later

51:19

on. I don't think it meets

51:21

the criteria of a data breach.

51:24

Is there anything we can should

51:26

do a move to Australia or

51:28

Canada or I don't know? Go

51:30

back and watch it because it's

51:32

obviously highly highly political and emotionally

51:34

charged. Stephen says can't you use

51:36

CSS to set the cursor as

51:39

hidden? You don't need to. To

51:41

use CSS to do that I

51:43

would have to add CSS to

51:45

the Grafana dashboard. It's not really

51:47

what I want to do. There

51:49

are various packages that I can

51:51

pull into the pie which will

51:54

hide the cursor after 10 seconds

51:56

of connecting. for example. But that's

51:58

definitely the right way to do

52:00

this. I just got to get

52:02

on and do that properly. John

52:04

says everything must be light slash

52:06

white here on the Gold Coast.

52:09

It does feel like that. But

52:11

Charlotte and I are having this

52:13

discussion because she's going to be

52:15

the designer for all the new

52:17

bits we're building now as well.

52:19

We were going to going... get

52:21

a designer, interior designer and for

52:24

various reasons decided that was a

52:26

bad idea. So she's going to

52:28

continue that design and she kind

52:30

of, actually I think it was

52:32

other friends made the point, it's

52:34

like when people walk into the

52:36

house, they're like, wow, that's so

52:39

cool because it is really, really

52:41

different. I think it's really different

52:43

without being polarizing. Like I've walked

52:45

into houses before I'm going, who

52:47

the hell would ever buy that?

52:49

I don't think that's the case

52:51

here. Last thing, reseseller update. interests

52:54

than what I thought it would

52:56

last week. I was talking about

52:58

resellers on Haverbampone and wanting to

53:00

look at banning the resellers from

53:02

Haverbampone. Now, a few people who

53:04

are not using resellers got a

53:06

bit upset about this, so I

53:09

need to quantify, qualify what that

53:11

means. Resellers are organizations that do

53:13

nothing other than interface between us

53:15

and the end customer for the

53:17

financial transaction. They add nothing else,

53:19

they do not offer support or

53:21

guidance or integration. They simply say,

53:24

hey Akmico, do you want to

53:26

buy that thing from Have I

53:28

Been Poned? Yes, let us buy

53:30

it for you. And that's it.

53:32

That's it. And obviously there's a

53:34

reason why companies use this service

53:36

because we've got a bunch of

53:39

them. And the reasons usually amount

53:41

to one or two different things,

53:43

possibly both. One is the company

53:45

has a strict policy of we

53:47

cannot purchase with credit card. Which

53:49

is unfortunate because we cannot... except

53:51

in a thing for credit card.

53:54

We use stripe for all of

53:56

our payments. We're an Australian entity

53:58

accepting payments in US dollars. We've

54:00

gone around around around with stripe

54:02

with this. I've literally sat there

54:04

in stripe HQ with people. There

54:06

is no way for us to

54:09

do this at present. Which kind

54:11

of sucks because it should just

54:13

be really simple. Stripe, if you're

54:15

an American entity, they have things

54:17

like virtual account numbers. And someone

54:19

can make a purchase from Stripe,

54:21

they can get an invoice, and

54:24

then they pay to the virtual

54:26

account number. And when they pay,

54:28

Stripe automatically does the reconciliation, raises

54:30

webbooks and events for things like

54:32

invoice paid, and you're good to

54:34

go. We cannot do that. So,

54:36

that's one problem. The other problem

54:39

is, many organizations say, you just

54:41

have to use this reseller. Full

54:43

stop. That's it. This is what

54:45

Fiza used to do. In my

54:47

nearly decade and a half of...

54:49

increasing pay in there. We had

54:51

to purchase everything through a reseller.

54:54

Now, I'll give you a good

54:56

example, so someone since I did

54:58

the last week, weekly update, reached

55:00

out, they were from a school

55:02

in a state in the US

55:04

where they said, look, we have

55:06

a legal requirement where we cannot

55:09

use credit card. Sounds a bit

55:11

harsh, I wonder if that's true,

55:13

and then he sent me a

55:15

link to the publicly accessible documentation,

55:17

which is like you are legally

55:19

not allowed to use a credit

55:21

card to make a purchase. That

55:24

sucks because what does this guy

55:26

do? You know, I don't want

55:28

to take away a service which

55:30

has been useful for them and

55:32

is out there doing a good

55:34

in the world, take it away

55:36

purely because they've got factors outside

55:39

of their control. I don't agree

55:41

with the factors, but that is

55:43

what it is. So I'm a

55:45

little bit... to this guy and

55:47

people in his situation. So we're

55:49

not at the point of completely

55:51

being it yet. And I have

55:54

gone back over it and thought...

55:56

about it more and more and

55:58

more and more and I keep

56:00

I keep thinking about folks like

56:02

this guy who are having trouble

56:04

but then there's the other voice

56:06

my head going geez these resellers

56:09

suck now somehow this actually got

56:11

press so I got this morning

56:13

there were two news stories about

56:15

have I been poned considering dropping

56:17

resellers and just to be clear

56:19

as well that these resellers like

56:21

I had some people who say

56:24

using an MSP or might be

56:26

an us it's like well No,

56:28

because you're building a service... I've

56:30

got to get this cough out.

56:32

We can make it to the

56:34

end. Okay, you're building a service

56:36

for someone and you might be

56:39

integrating it into a large replication,

56:41

for example, or you're providing support

56:43

around this, or you're helping them

56:45

translate the data and something, like

56:47

you're adding some sort of value.

56:49

And not only that, but when

56:51

you want... the key, you just

56:54

gotta have a ban upon your

56:56

body. Like you're fine, we love

56:58

you guys. What I don't love

57:00

is the reason, even when I

57:02

look at my wall of graphs

57:04

at the moment, I can sell

57:06

our outstanding tickets down here, and

57:09

I can see like multiple tickets

57:11

here that are from resellers. Because

57:13

resellers want... They want a combination

57:15

of, you've got to go through

57:17

and create quotes. Now we can

57:19

automate this away, and this is

57:21

the thing that we're looking at

57:24

with Stefan, you know, like how

57:26

much this do we automate away

57:28

because it's a good thing to

57:30

do versus how much we're doing

57:32

to satisfy resales. But, you know,

57:34

they'll want things like quotes every

57:36

time we come up for renewal,

57:39

they want renewal quotes manually made.

57:41

They will literally argue about the

57:43

fact that we've changed pricing. You

57:45

imagine that, like you go to

57:47

buy your Netflix subscription. And keeping

57:49

in mind, have I been paying

57:51

subscriptions started a lot less than

57:54

a Netflix subscription too. Netflix has

57:56

put their prices up 15% or

57:58

something like that. And you just

58:00

send them an email. Could you?

58:02

Please justify the price increase. I'd

58:04

be like, screw you man. Go

58:06

and watch something else. So it's

58:09

that sort of behaviour. And I

58:11

like the headline from the register

58:13

here. The register says, have I

58:15

been poned likely to ban resellers

58:17

from buying subs, citing shitty behaviour

58:19

and owner support requests? Now they

58:21

replace the eye with the star,

58:24

so you didn't know it was

58:26

shitty, but it's shitty. So,

58:30

I guess long story short, I

58:32

think if we had a solution

58:35

to do non-credit card payment in

58:37

an automated fashion, I'd have much

58:39

higher degree of confidence in killing

58:42

resellers. Unfortunately we don't, and I

58:44

think it may come to stripe

58:46

later on to be able to

58:49

support our use case, but we

58:51

don't know when. And I don't

58:53

think it's a this year sort

58:56

of thing either. I think we

58:58

will probably have to find a

59:00

way to fully automate the things

59:03

that resellers do. And then we

59:05

might just have to say, look,

59:07

if you can't go down this,

59:10

and I honestly think that would

59:12

cover 90% of the reseller use

59:14

cases, if you can't go down

59:17

that fully automated route, we can't

59:19

help you. Now I won't name

59:21

them, but there's an example of

59:24

one reseller in particular that we

59:26

end up banning. And we banned

59:28

this reseller, so now every time

59:31

a customer comes up and says,

59:33

you know, I use this reseller,

59:35

can we buy from them? It's

59:38

like, no. Here are other ones

59:40

who are fine. But this one

59:42

reseller quite obnoxiously demanded that we

59:45

must sign their agreement. Look, you're

59:47

buying from us. You agree to

59:49

our terms, that's not how it

59:52

works. You know, how many times

59:54

imagine a customer walks into your

59:56

shop. I'd like to buy some

59:59

of your noodles. Okay, here's the

1:00:01

noodles. Okay, I'll buy your noodles,

1:00:03

but I need you to sign.

1:00:06

My 20-page legal document first. Screw

1:00:08

you, man. No, we're not doing

1:00:10

that. Scott says nobody has yet

1:00:13

given me a compelling reason for

1:00:15

resellers that operate like this to

1:00:17

exist. No, I have lots of

1:00:20

uncompelling reasons. I think, mate, there's

1:00:22

there's some in-like bazaar procurement world

1:00:25

where the nevels just sit there

1:00:27

and... Crunched numbers and do boring

1:00:29

stuff. By bundling it all together,

1:00:32

there is some financial enterprise bargaining.

1:00:34

I don't know. I'm struggling. I'm

1:00:36

sorry. I just don't think it's

1:00:39

a good reason. James, as I

1:00:41

keep thinking, Troy should have one

1:00:43

sanctioned reseller. You know, there is

1:00:46

one reseller that is by far

1:00:48

and away the most significant one.

1:00:50

I got a check with Charlotte,

1:00:53

but I suspect that they're like

1:00:55

80% plus of the reseller sales.

1:00:57

And I did actually say to

1:01:00

her during this week when we

1:01:02

keep throwing this idea around and

1:01:04

said, maybe, I wonder if there's

1:01:07

someone like us, you know, like

1:01:09

a nice person, a techie person

1:01:11

in there, that I can just

1:01:14

contact and go, mate, can we

1:01:16

just automate away all of this

1:01:18

and then we will make you

1:01:21

the sole resell result? I wonder

1:01:23

if we can do that. I

1:01:27

think you might be right, James. I

1:01:29

might push that, I might see where

1:01:31

I can go with that. I wouldn't

1:01:33

be surprised if this reseller themselves use,

1:01:36

have I been poned, and I can

1:01:38

find the equivalent of one of us

1:01:40

there, and I can check them. I

1:01:42

might check with Charlotte, like what percentage

1:01:44

of our sales are from that reseller,

1:01:46

and of the remaining ones, if they

1:01:49

kick up a stink, well, I'll rephrase

1:01:51

it. How likely would we be able

1:01:53

to just chop them and have... customers

1:01:55

that would have used those go to

1:01:57

the other ones because then the only

1:01:59

gap that you really left with is

1:02:02

what happens when there is a company

1:02:04

who demands that they only use one

1:02:06

particular reseller. I do know that particularly

1:02:08

places like Germany it seems that a

1:02:10

lot of German companies want to use

1:02:12

one or two resellers that are German

1:02:15

so I'm not sure what would happen

1:02:17

then if we're like no you can't

1:02:19

use those you got to use these

1:02:21

other guys and also if we're going

1:02:23

to automate away a lot of this

1:02:25

stuff does it then matter as much

1:02:28

I'm just not sure. Now

1:02:31

Steven made an interesting point here.

1:02:33

He said, you should sell, have

1:02:35

I been poned vouchers to get

1:02:37

around resellers? We were sort of

1:02:39

wondering if there was sort of

1:02:42

a model like that, not to

1:02:44

get around resellers, but to make

1:02:46

it easier such that... I don't

1:02:48

want to make it sound like

1:02:50

a gift card. But you know,

1:02:52

like if you purchase a gift

1:02:54

card, it doesn't matter where you

1:02:57

purchase it from. It just matters

1:02:59

that you have the card with

1:03:01

the code. So, you know, if

1:03:03

there's just like a code, I

1:03:05

don't know. I don't think that's

1:03:07

helping. Mark said you could add

1:03:09

a second payment process for other

1:03:12

forms of payment. We've thought about

1:03:14

that and we've had that request

1:03:16

many times before because people said

1:03:18

things like, I'd like to pay

1:03:20

with PayPal. First of all, that

1:03:22

this is a tiny slice of

1:03:24

our audience. And again, just to

1:03:27

recap the figures from last week,

1:03:29

0.86% of our active subscribers come

1:03:31

from resellers. So we're talking about

1:03:33

less than 1 and 100. Now

1:03:35

of that 0.86% they do have

1:03:37

a much bigger skew towards the

1:03:40

highest tier of service we offer,

1:03:42

so they represent a larger proportion

1:03:44

than 0.86% in terms of revenue,

1:03:46

but it's still like small single

1:03:48

digits. So we're left with this

1:03:50

very small window. The thing is

1:03:52

with stripe, we've integrated stripe so

1:03:55

intimately into the process of how...

1:03:57

subscriptions are issued and keys are

1:03:59

kept active and renewed. Every single

1:04:01

time there's a payment, for example,

1:04:03

it's in stripe, it raises a

1:04:05

web hook, it updates things and

1:04:07

have a vampone. Now, if we

1:04:10

want to support another provider, we

1:04:12

would need to have another web

1:04:14

hook endpoint so that provider could

1:04:16

raise web hooks and then extend

1:04:18

the subscription. And we're just starting

1:04:20

to add a lot of other

1:04:22

moving parts for a tiny, tiny

1:04:25

slice of the audience. And if

1:04:27

we're going to be doing extra

1:04:29

moving parts, Would we be better

1:04:31

doing things like automating quotes, which

1:04:33

would be beneficial to non-reseller customers

1:04:35

as well, or would we be

1:04:37

better off, you know, integrating PayPal

1:04:40

or integrating crypto payments or something

1:04:42

like that? So that's where we

1:04:44

left for that one. VXDB is

1:04:46

if a company can't pay with

1:04:48

credit card, how are they paying

1:04:50

the reseller? Bank transfer. Yes, it

1:04:52

is bank transfer. It's literally that.

1:04:55

And inevitably what resellers are doing,

1:04:57

again speaking of my... many years

1:04:59

in Pfizer, the resellers will bundle

1:05:01

all this up such that you

1:05:03

go and you're purchasing from the

1:05:05

resell, the resellers got their own

1:05:07

catalogue of things, you make all

1:05:10

these purchases and then they would

1:05:12

then give you for example a

1:05:14

monthly bill and they would send

1:05:16

you an invoice and of course

1:05:18

they mark it up. I mean

1:05:20

one of these, one of these

1:05:23

resellers accidentally somehow managed to copy

1:05:25

his back into the thread, which

1:05:27

included the invoice that they'd sent

1:05:29

to their customer, and they had

1:05:31

marked up the price 136%. So

1:05:33

imagine that, like we're looking at

1:05:35

this service. The Charlotte and Stefan

1:05:38

I pour our hearts and souls

1:05:40

into the vast majority of it

1:05:42

we give away for free, and

1:05:44

then we charge for this like

1:05:46

one little slice of it. And

1:05:48

then there's free seller who's a

1:05:50

parasite, who's a parasite, let's be

1:05:53

honest. marks it up 136% So

1:05:55

anyway they mark it up 136%

1:05:57

or whatever and they bundle it

1:05:59

all together and then they send

1:06:01

an invoice to the company and

1:06:03

because Neville in the procurement department

1:06:05

of the company says that they

1:06:08

must have 60 day terms then

1:06:10

they've got 60 days to pay

1:06:12

it and yeah so that's how

1:06:14

it works that they just literally

1:06:16

get paid by different channels and

1:06:18

they just pay a lot more.

1:06:20

Stefan's delegating Scott to support person

1:06:23

if he sells our stuff. James

1:06:25

says work with one reseller and

1:06:27

automate the problems away. The

1:06:29

rest of the resellers have to come

1:06:31

in line with what you develop. I

1:06:33

think we've just got to look at

1:06:35

where these gaps are and it's... Look,

1:06:37

it's multiple things. Part of it is

1:06:39

mechanical procurement stuff which would be beneficial

1:06:42

to other customers as well. Generating invoice.

1:06:44

I always think quotes. Just remember the

1:06:46

first time I started getting asked for

1:06:48

quotes. So I go, hi, I'd like

1:06:50

to buy like your Pone 3 subscription

1:06:52

for whatever it was, 50 bucks, let's

1:06:54

say. Could you give me a quote?

1:06:56

It's like, well, the price is on

1:06:58

the website. Yeah, yeah, but could you

1:07:00

print that into a PDF? Control peach,

1:07:02

use PDF. Oh yeah, but we need

1:07:04

our company name on it as well.

1:07:06

Oh, okay. No. So you can buy

1:07:08

exactly what is already there on the

1:07:10

website. Anyway, apparently that's the thing. So,

1:07:12

Stripe has APIs to generate quotes. So,

1:07:14

you know, we can do that. A

1:07:17

lot of companies want invoices as well.

1:07:19

Now the problem with Stripe, and this

1:07:21

is an immutable problem by all accounts,

1:07:23

is the only way you can get

1:07:25

an invoice on Stripe when you have

1:07:27

this subscription style model. is after the

1:07:29

subscription begins. So we have to start

1:07:31

the subscription in order to raise the

1:07:33

invoice. And then that's a bit of

1:07:35

a problem because now the subscription has

1:07:37

started and the clock is ticking and

1:07:39

it's eating away at their one year

1:07:41

of time but they haven't actually paid

1:07:43

the bill. We can always not activate

1:07:45

the subscription and have I been poned

1:07:47

until they pay the bill because we

1:07:49

can literally listen for invoice stop paid

1:07:52

or whatever the web hook is. But

1:07:54

they've still lost, so the two weeks

1:07:56

of their subscription, where they've taken it

1:07:58

out and they haven't paid the bill.

1:08:00

Now we can put all that in

1:08:02

terms and things, as well, it just

1:08:04

feels a bit shitty, where you know,

1:08:06

it's like, hey, here's, if you'd like

1:08:08

to use this service, here's an invoice,

1:08:10

you're paying for it now, regardless of

1:08:12

whether you've actually paid for it. There

1:08:14

is this other level of stuff, which

1:08:16

I think, again, we just... We can

1:08:18

fix by other means, but it'll be

1:08:20

things like, hi, our customer can't access

1:08:22

the service. Well, that's because you gave

1:08:24

us an email address for the customer,

1:08:27

which we then put in stripe via

1:08:29

metadata, which fed through and have been

1:08:31

poned, which on their subscription has got,

1:08:33

you know, John at Acmicore.com, but they're

1:08:35

logging in with security at Acmicore.com. And

1:08:37

you're in this Chinese Whispers loop trying

1:08:39

to figure out... what the person is

1:08:41

actually. So, you know, we might, for

1:08:43

example, just have a blanket position where

1:08:45

we say we will only provide support

1:08:47

directly to the customer. And that does

1:08:49

kind of solve a lot of the

1:08:51

problems. But even then, the customer's got

1:08:53

to figure out that issue. But I

1:08:55

think part of that is in maybe

1:08:57

if we need to send notifications or

1:09:00

something that we're not doing already, you

1:09:02

know, you have just signed up for

1:09:04

this service with this email address, you

1:09:06

need to use the same. You wouldn't

1:09:08

believe how many tickets we get even

1:09:10

outside of resellers where people, I just

1:09:12

loved on to have a phone to

1:09:14

do my domain search and it says

1:09:16

I don't have a subscription. What gives?

1:09:18

It's like, well, you took out the

1:09:20

subscription under John at and you're logging

1:09:22

in under Mary at. Yeah, two different

1:09:24

people. That's why you subscription. doesn't work.

1:09:26

I guarantee there will be tickets right

1:09:28

there on that screen right now. Anyway,

1:09:30

John says, can you use zero for

1:09:32

invoicing? So we do use zero for

1:09:35

invoicing for non-API key slash domain search

1:09:37

purchases. So we use it. We've got

1:09:39

some enterprise subscribers, one password for example,

1:09:41

Mozilla Firefox Monitor. that sort of stuff

1:09:43

where it doesn't go through the online

1:09:45

credit card thing and we do all

1:09:47

that even things like reconciliation we do

1:09:49

manually but there's only a very small

1:09:51

number of them so it's feasible we

1:09:53

don't want to do that for folks

1:09:55

where everything goes through stripe and it's

1:09:57

sort of like the answer I just

1:09:59

gave Mark around can you have different

1:10:01

payment providers well if we do that

1:10:03

excuse me then we've got to tie

1:10:05

that into the whole processing cycle as

1:10:07

well so we've then got to have

1:10:10

web hooks that zero would call when

1:10:12

an invoice is paid and so on

1:10:14

and so forth and it gets very

1:10:16

very messy. I think we're going to

1:10:18

solve this by automating away the quotes

1:10:20

and the invoices and things like that

1:10:22

and we'll be in a much better

1:10:24

position. James is use a password manager

1:10:26

you dummy and you'll know how to

1:10:28

log in. Hat tip to this week's

1:10:30

sponsor, one password. Yes, if you use

1:10:32

a password manager to store the email

1:10:34

address that you use to sign up

1:10:36

to the service, you would always remember

1:10:38

it. That would be helpful. As Scott

1:10:40

says, geez, trying to find out whose

1:10:42

account we need to activate a subscription

1:10:45

on. Yeah, so Scott has the same

1:10:47

problems with the port your eye, like

1:10:49

trying to join all these dots. I'm

1:10:51

sure there are better ways. Part of

1:10:53

part of the problem as well as

1:10:55

we're trying to very privacy preserving. Now

1:10:57

we could very easily say. when John

1:10:59

at Acme Core goes to the dashboard

1:11:01

and sees he doesn't have a subscription

1:11:03

we could say hey John did you

1:11:05

know that Mary at Acme Core has

1:11:07

an account but then you're making the

1:11:09

assumption that John should have the right

1:11:11

to see who else on the same

1:11:13

domain has an account and then imagine

1:11:15

what happens when you get into to

1:11:18

public email providers.

1:11:20

Oh, that's messy. No,

1:11:22

we can never

1:11:24

do that. So anyway,

1:11:26

we don't do do

1:11:28

that. So anyway, we don't right,

1:11:30

I'm gonna wrap

1:11:32

it up there. up

1:11:34

Hopefully by next week,

1:11:36

we'll have a

1:11:38

clearer vision on the

1:11:40

reseller stuff. the A

1:11:42

lot of this

1:11:44

does also tie into,

1:11:46

when we talk

1:11:48

about automating and building

1:11:50

more about it ties

1:11:53

into the UX

1:11:55

work we're talking about

1:11:57

because we wanna

1:11:59

build all the new

1:12:01

UX. the UX Hopefully

1:12:03

I can talk more

1:12:05

about that next

1:12:07

week. I think we'll

1:12:09

have a much

1:12:11

clearer view. on the new

1:12:13

And Stefan, you joined

1:12:15

a little bit

1:12:17

after more sort of

1:12:19

think we should think

1:12:21

about I think we'll talk more

1:12:23

making public those

1:12:25

interfaces as static pages

1:12:28

before we build them

1:12:30

into the whole

1:12:32

system. into the whole system. talk

1:12:34

more about that. more

1:12:36

Thanks, folks. folks.