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Hello everybody and welcome back to Truth

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and Justice. I have a special episode

1:42

for you guys today I am joined

1:44

by a fellow true crime podcaster that

1:47

has a very specific niche of true

1:49

crime that she covers. Her name is

1:51

CJ and she is the host of

1:53

the Rainbow Crimes podcast formerly Beyond

1:55

the Rainbow. When did you make that change

1:58

CJ? Oh I just decided to do it.

2:00

the new year actually. Oh, so

2:02

just now, after about five years

2:04

of run the podcast. I was

2:06

asking my listeners, I said, you

2:08

know, I'm feeling a little stagnant

2:11

and I'd like to, you know,

2:13

maybe rebrand a little bit. What

2:15

do you guys think if I

2:17

changed the name? And I presented

2:19

them a logo that one of

2:21

my fellow Dark House network shows

2:24

came up with on AI. And

2:26

they loved it. So I'm all,

2:28

okay, let's go with that then.

2:30

See if we can spruce things

2:32

up a little bit. Yeah, that

2:34

AI stuff is crazy right now.

2:37

I have, I teach broadcasting at

2:39

our local high school and they're

2:41

creating logos for their podcast and

2:43

a few of them are like,

2:45

well, look, Mr. Ruff, you can

2:47

go right on AI and they'll

2:50

just build the logo for you.

2:52

Oh, that's very cool. Yeah, yeah,

2:54

it's really neat. So CJ, tell

2:56

us a little bit about yourself.

2:58

So you've been doing the podcast

3:00

now for about five years now

3:03

for about five years. Rainbow crimes

3:05

is all about what's your podcast

3:07

about? Rainbow crimes previously beyond the

3:09

rainbow is about true crime of

3:11

the LGBTQ community and I cover

3:13

crimes against LGBTQ people and crimes

3:16

by LGBTQ people. Okay and how

3:18

often do you do episodes? I

3:20

drop once a week in episode

3:22

usually. Okay. So, what made you

3:24

get into podcasting? To get into

3:26

podcasting in general, but also the

3:29

specific genre of podcasting and that

3:31

niche of just the LGBTQ community?

3:33

Well, truthfully, I grew up in

3:35

Sacramento, California, and that's home of

3:37

a lot of serial killers. When

3:39

I was little, I had a

3:42

phone call and I used to

3:44

run to the phone to beat

3:46

all my family members when the

3:48

phone rang. I don't know, it

3:50

was some game I played. It

3:52

was probably six or seven. I

3:55

got to the phone first and

3:57

there was a major... voice on

3:59

the other end saying horrible sexual

4:01

and things that he was going

4:03

to kill me just horrible terrible

4:05

things and I remember dropping the

4:07

phone screaming and crying my mom

4:10

came to the phone picked it

4:12

up nobody was on the other

4:14

end I totally forgot about that

4:16

she told me at the time

4:18

she told me it was just

4:20

the teenage boy across the street

4:23

he had a friend over they

4:25

were pranking me And you know

4:27

it didn't sound like that. It

4:29

sounded like a grown man's voice

4:31

and I just left it at

4:33

what she had told me to

4:36

comfort me and I totally forgot

4:38

about it for years and years

4:40

and years. And then when the

4:42

Golden State killer was captured because

4:44

he was out and about in

4:46

my area when I was little,

4:49

I knew him as the East

4:51

Area rapist from the news and

4:53

stuff like that. But I was

4:55

listening to some audio. of a

4:57

phone call he had made to

4:59

one of his victims. As soon

5:02

as I heard his voice, everything

5:04

from my childhood came flooding back.

5:06

And it made me believe that

5:08

he was the man on the

5:10

other end of the phone when

5:12

I picked up as a child.

5:15

And my mom was pretty hot

5:17

back then. So I wouldn't doubt

5:19

that, you know, maybe he was

5:21

trying to get a hold of

5:23

her. And my dad, he is

5:25

a sweetheart and... would have been

5:28

probably considered kind of a weaker

5:30

man, you know, and that was

5:32

kind of what the Golden State

5:34

killer went after, women with weaker

5:36

men, that he could manipulate. All

5:38

that in my head made me

5:41

think, yeah, that's who that was

5:43

when I was a little girl.

5:45

What year was that? Oh, I

5:47

don't even remember, to be honest,

5:49

and I can't remember my exact

5:51

age. And I also lie about

5:53

my age, so I couldn't be

5:56

honest with you. You don't look

5:58

at day over 29. That was...

6:00

Hey, thanks. That's what I tell

6:02

everyone. Every birthday, I'm 29 again.

6:04

So with having all of

6:06

that in my backyard in

6:09

Dorothea Poentes, she was another

6:11

serial killer from our area.

6:13

Richard Chase, the Sacramento vampire, we

6:16

just, we had so much

6:18

true crime. I kind of was

6:20

interested in it as a child.

6:22

But then I kind of lost

6:24

interested in it and got

6:26

involved in other things in

6:28

my life. As an adult, I was

6:30

doing a lot of walking with

6:32

my dogs and stuff. And a friend

6:35

from high school asked me, do you

6:37

ever listen to podcasts? And I'm

6:39

all, no, I don't even know what

6:41

that is. And this was probably

6:43

about seven years ago when I

6:46

was living in Hawaii. And she

6:48

was telling me, and she said, oh my

6:50

God, do you like your crime? And I

6:52

said, yeah, it really interests me.

6:54

And she said, you have to

6:56

listen to some of these. true

6:58

crime podcasts listen to on my

7:00

walks and it really filled the

7:02

time as I was walking the

7:04

dogs and I would really get

7:06

into the cases so that's what

7:09

got me into true crime podcasting

7:11

I would listen like Southern

7:13

Fried True Crime was one

7:15

of my very favorite started

7:17

with and Erica Kelly would

7:20

cover a few LGBTQ cases here

7:22

and there but No one else

7:24

really did much with the

7:26

LGBTQ cases. And I'm all, I

7:29

think there's a need for someone

7:31

to have a show that's

7:33

just strictly LGBTQ cases. And

7:36

I found one or two afterwards,

7:38

but I knew what I wanted

7:40

to do. And they were shows with

7:42

more than one host. And I

7:45

kind of like just the

7:47

one host. That's my

7:49

personal preference. So I decided, yeah,

7:51

there's a need for it. I'm going to go

7:53

ahead and try it. Well, that's great. And

7:55

what have you found? Because obviously

7:57

that's a very specific element of

7:59

research. to find the cases that

8:01

involve that community. I mean, you've

8:04

been doing weekly episodes now for

8:06

five years. I mean, you're into

8:08

the, what, probably a couple hundred

8:11

episodes you put out so far?

8:13

Yeah. Yeah, so that's a lot

8:15

of cases. Have you had trouble

8:18

finding them or where do you

8:20

find your cases? Sadly, I have

8:22

not had trouble finding cases. There's

8:25

a lot and it seems to

8:27

be a lot more happening even,

8:29

and I keep thinking what happens

8:32

when I run out. Right. Well,

8:34

I do do some historical cases,

8:36

but I do those mostly with

8:39

my patron members, but I'm not

8:41

in any jeopardy of running out,

8:43

and sadly, because our community is

8:46

constantly getting hit. Right. Are there

8:48

more, do you find that there's

8:50

more cases of the LGBTQ community

8:53

being the victims of the crimes

8:55

as opposed to the perpetrators? It

8:57

seems like that would be the

9:00

case. Yeah, and then it seems

9:02

like most of the perpetrators that

9:04

are LGBTQ are, it's against themselves,

9:07

like domestic abuse cases, or murder

9:09

suicide cases. So what does a

9:11

typical episode look like for you?

9:14

If somebody's tuning in, so it's

9:16

just you, just doing a scripted

9:18

podcast, so how do you take

9:21

on, is that one case per

9:23

episode? Actually, I do too. I

9:25

do a main case and then

9:28

I do a true crime quickly

9:30

because I have a little bit

9:32

of ADD going and it's really

9:35

hard for me to focus for

9:37

too long in the same as

9:39

a listener of true crime podcast.

9:42

If it's over an hour, I

9:44

can listen, but I have to

9:46

stop it and I have to

9:49

go back to it just because

9:51

my ADD is everywhere. is kind

9:53

of a quick one, it'd be

9:56

20, 25 minutes. A long one

9:58

would be 35 minutes for me.

10:00

So what I would do is

10:03

I'll. look at a, I'll find

10:05

a victim, I'll search the victim's

10:07

name, and I'll find a whole

10:10

bunch of different articles about that

10:12

victim, and I'll try to cross-reference

10:14

and find out what facts are

10:17

mostly talked about in each article.

10:19

Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah.

10:21

Okay, because immediate does not always

10:24

get it right, therefore I don't

10:26

always get it right, and I

10:28

hate that, and I wish there

10:31

were more ways that I could.

10:33

I could check my facts and

10:35

cross-reference and things like that, but

10:38

I'll do my research, I'll do

10:40

my writing, and I will record,

10:42

edit, and put out a show

10:45

and hope for the best. Do

10:47

you do everything by yourself or

10:49

do you have any help? Oh

10:52

no, I do it all by

10:54

myself. I also run a network.

10:56

I have a network of about

10:59

30 shows right now. Oh really,

11:01

so tell us about that. It's

11:03

Darkast network and I have true

11:06

crime paranormal. I have an audio

11:08

drama and it's all darkly related

11:10

type themes. Cryptids, conspiracy theories. There's

11:13

the crate people and we're all

11:15

indie podcasters who support each other.

11:17

So did you say that's your

11:20

network? Did you found the network?

11:22

I did. I had a co-founder

11:24

at one time, but we had

11:27

some artistic disagreements. So she left

11:29

and I became the sole sole

11:31

founder. And I do have some

11:34

helpers that are great and they're

11:36

on the board. I made a

11:38

board. So I didn't have to

11:41

do it all by myself, but

11:43

they're great to bounce ideas off

11:45

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style. was your background

14:51

before? You said seven

14:53

years ago you'd never

14:55

heard of a podcast

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and then here are seven

15:00

years later you have a

15:02

network with 30 podcasts

15:04

under it. Well I know

15:07

I'm only 29 but for

15:09

30 years I worked with

15:11

children. Okay. They were

15:13

ages five to 13. and I

15:15

worked at a very busy school,

15:18

but it wasn't with the

15:20

school that I worked. I was

15:22

running a daycare program on

15:25

the school campus for

15:27

the city of Sacramento.

15:29

So is this a

15:31

retirement job for you? Podcasting?

15:34

Yeah. It's a hobby. Are

15:36

you still working besides the

15:39

podcast as well? No. No,

15:41

my hobby is my podcast and

15:43

my dog. My daughter, my adult daughter

15:45

and her boyfriend live with me. And

15:48

would you say about my dog? I said,

15:50

what kind of dog is it? Oh, I just

15:52

got him. I lost my baby and I carry

15:54

a little bit of her ashes here. I lost

15:56

her a year ago in January and

15:59

she was multi. Chihuahua, my new

16:01

boy, I got in July, he's

16:03

Maltese Papian and he's

16:06

just a ball of energy.

16:08

So in your 29 years, you

16:10

spent 30 years running the

16:12

daycare. That's kind of a

16:15

miracle. Yeah, right. So

16:17

he had no background

16:19

in, in, obviously, podcasting, audio

16:21

engineering, anything like that. How

16:23

did you go from, okay,

16:25

yeah, I like this idea,

16:27

I think I'm going to

16:29

start a podcast to where you're

16:32

at now? I did have a little bit

16:34

of video background, but it

16:36

wasn't like professional or formal

16:38

training. It was learning through my

16:40

daughter growing up and working with

16:42

kids and making videos for them

16:45

and putting them to music and

16:47

stuff like that. Audio isn't much

16:49

different. The editing and stuff.

16:51

Right. Little easier, I think anyway.

16:53

Actually, it took me a long time

16:55

to get where I am with editing.

16:57

I used to dread it. Now you

17:00

know what part of podcasting I dread

17:02

recording. Same. I'm the same. I tell my

17:04

editor all the time is that the worst

17:06

part about making a podcast is

17:09

recording the podcast. I dread it

17:11

every like when writing the

17:13

scripts, doing the research, doing

17:15

the investigations, doing the investigations,

17:17

the whole thing, I love

17:19

it. Then I have to sit down

17:22

and actually like. Speak the words and

17:24

for some reason that's just just grueling

17:26

for me. I hear you I much prefer this I

17:28

much prefer like when I'm having a conversation

17:30

love that but when I have to sit

17:33

down and like read a script then it's

17:35

just like something in my brain is

17:37

just like goes into panic mode I have to

17:39

talk to myself into going in every day

17:41

too it's like reading a podcast script and

17:43

going to the gym both of those I

17:45

said at the gym parking lot for like

17:47

20 minutes every time when I pull in

17:49

talking myself into going in every day in

17:51

every day too I'd rather go to the

17:53

gym. Yeah. So you start you

17:55

start off you just you have

17:58

just your podcast and then. At

18:00

some point you add a second

18:02

podcast when you start to create

18:04

the network. Like how did that

18:06

happen? What was the first show other

18:08

than at the time beyond the Rainbow?

18:10

What was the other founder show? Yeah,

18:12

besides those two, like what was the

18:15

first one that you added to

18:17

the network? We have friends that

18:19

are podcasters that you meet in

18:21

like a retweet groups. I guess

18:23

they're not retweet groups anymore.

18:25

They're repost groups. So you start

18:28

with them. and see if they're

18:30

interested. And then right now we

18:32

have an application on our website,

18:34

dirtcast network.com, for dark genre shows

18:36

to go and apply. Okay. So you guys are

18:38

really great. I mean, I've been doing this for

18:40

10 years and I don't have my network.

18:42

I've had like four or five shows. Usually

18:45

they don't last. It's still, it always ends

18:47

up going back to just this one that

18:49

I'm still doing. So it's impressive that you've

18:51

been able to maintain that. It's not

18:53

easy Bob, it is not easy

18:55

at all. People get pod fade

18:57

and they don't want to do

18:59

their podcast anymore. Another network might

19:01

poach them from you, which has

19:04

happened also. You know, stuff

19:06

happens, but it's great. I've been,

19:08

I've gone to several true crime

19:11

festivals and I've met podcasters there

19:13

that I've picked up too, and

19:15

actually have become really good

19:17

friends with them. No, that's great.

19:19

Can you? Let's take and talk about,

19:22

maybe we can touch on a few

19:24

cases that you've covered on the show. Do

19:26

you have any, is there, is, most people

19:28

have a particular case that's just

19:31

the one that's like their case

19:33

that's near and dear to their heart

19:35

that they can't get out of their head?

19:37

Do you have that case? I do, I

19:39

do, and it's because I'm still in touch

19:41

with the mom. The case is

19:43

that of 21-year-old trans man Alex

19:46

Vandalsin. He was murdered murdered in

19:48

Indiana. And the police on

19:50

their body cam footage said

19:52

he was placed here in

19:55

position this way. This, you know,

19:57

wasn't natural. He wasn't.

20:00

here. Then they go and tell

20:02

the mom that Alex died by

20:04

suicide. Yeah, even though in their

20:06

body cam it said no he

20:09

was positioned here. Right. I don't

20:11

know for quick work to close

20:13

it, close the case, not get

20:15

the parent to react to it,

20:18

other than to feel better that

20:20

yeah he took his own life.

20:22

So crazy stuff. There was a

20:24

gun found under him. under him.

20:27

He had his hands in his

20:29

hoodies pocket, but yet he shot

20:31

himself. Both hands were in his

20:34

pocket. Both hands were in his

20:36

pocket. The gun was under him.

20:38

The exit wound. Gosh, I wish

20:40

I could remember more. I did

20:43

this several years ago, even though

20:45

I still talk to the mom.

20:47

We don't really discuss the case

20:49

much anymore. The coroner said that

20:52

the exit wound, which is typically

20:54

usually bigger from the entrance wound.

20:56

The coroner made it mixed up

20:59

and said that the entrance wound

21:01

was the exit wound and it

21:03

wasn't. There's just so much wrong

21:05

with this whole case. Alex had

21:08

a girlfriend that he was writing,

21:10

he wrote a list to, returned

21:12

keys to her, he didn't feel

21:14

like he was good enough for

21:17

her. So return her keys, do

21:19

this, do that, do that. The

21:21

police took it out of context

21:24

and thought it was a suicide

21:26

note, which it wasn't. And I'm

21:28

not explaining this very well because

21:30

it's not, I wasn't prepared to

21:33

talk about it and I apologize

21:35

for that. That's right. But yes,

21:37

that case is probably the most

21:39

near and dear to my heart.

21:42

If you get a chance, Alex

21:44

Van Dawson, I have had several

21:46

episodes on it, look it up.

21:49

It's just, it's heartbreaking to me

21:51

that this young boy cannot get

21:53

justice for his murder. He was

21:55

murdered. He was not suicidal and

21:58

he didn't take his own life.

22:00

Do you find that working with

22:03

specifically victims within this community?

22:05

So you mentioned that you don't

22:07

want don't know why they just

22:09

wanted to close the case or

22:11

whatever. I was I was kind of

22:13

go back to that concept the way I

22:16

think a fellow podcast or Shane Waters

22:18

put it as of throwaway people that

22:20

the police maybe look at people

22:22

from your community. that well it

22:24

doesn't really matter if we solve

22:27

this case. Do you see much

22:29

of that or do you feel like

22:31

there's a lot of that that goes on?

22:33

I do see a lot of LGBTQ

22:35

people are frightened to go

22:37

to the police because of that

22:40

mentality. But on the other

22:42

hand, I do also know that

22:44

at least the larger cities with

22:46

police communities, they're trying

22:48

to incorporate an LGBTQ,

22:51

I can never say this word,

22:53

liaison. That's a really hard word

22:55

for me. I think you nailed

22:58

it. But they're trying to

23:00

get a contact who is gay,

23:02

a gay police officer to mend

23:04

that gap between the police

23:07

and the LGBT community. It's

23:09

going to take a while.

23:11

And one person's not going

23:13

to be able to do the whole

23:16

thing. But hopefully it'll get

23:18

better. And small towns, they need

23:20

to do something like that too.

23:22

It's the bigger towns and the

23:24

bigger cities that are doing that.

23:27

Sure. So in Alex's case, first of

23:29

all, what year was Alex killed? I

23:31

want to say 2021. Okay, so it's

23:33

recent and is it, is it still

23:35

being, is anybody doing anything with it

23:38

or if the police just declared it

23:40

as who's gone? Alex, it says

23:42

mom has been trying to

23:44

pressure government officials into reopening

23:46

the case and they just won't

23:49

do it. What part of Indiana, I'm

23:51

right on the Indiana borders why

23:53

I'm curious, what part of Indiana

23:55

is it? Okay, the name is fleeting from

23:57

my head. I knew it so well too. It's a

23:59

fun... Right

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terms and conditions But

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also so Teresa had a question

25:43

earlier you mentioned that you're still

25:45

in contact with Alex's mom Yes

25:47

Do you reach out to the

25:49

victims families not always and it's

25:52

come back to buy me in

25:54

the ass How's that? Well, okay,

25:56

maybe it hasn't here's what actually

25:58

has bit me in the ass

26:00

reaching out to a parent whose

26:02

son went missing overseas. I told

26:04

her I would like to cover

26:06

your son's case. Would you

26:09

be interested in talking to me

26:11

about it? And she came back

26:13

hard at me and very angry

26:15

and said no one can tell

26:18

his story like me or

26:20

his family members. So no,

26:22

but you're going to do what

26:24

you want to do anyway to

26:26

make your money. And first of

26:28

all, I kind of giggled in

26:31

my head thinking, make my money.

26:33

Okay, this is really no money

26:35

in this lady, but okay, let's

26:37

talk. So, you know, I kind of told

26:39

her who I was, I gave her

26:41

my real age, told her about my

26:43

child and, you know, how I would

26:45

feel if my child ever went missing

26:48

and, you know, kind of took it

26:50

from there, kind of deescalated

26:52

her a little bit. But in

26:54

the meantime, I've seen other people

26:57

have covered her son's case. So,

26:59

right. Yeah, that's, it's always tough

27:01

because there's a lot of, there's a

27:03

lot of media out there that just

27:05

kind of get surface area, surface information

27:07

will put stuff out and tries, then

27:09

doesn't make those contacts and they don't

27:11

get it right and then it turns people

27:13

off from the media in general. I've had

27:15

cases that, they don't get it right and

27:18

then it turns people off from the media

27:20

in general. I've had cases that I've gone

27:22

into work, I've had cases, I've had cases,

27:24

I've gone from the, I've gone from

27:26

the media, I've just for background, and

27:28

just for background. Well, but I was going

27:31

to type you before we started

27:33

being able to chat. I have

27:35

a new laptop. My old laptop, nobody

27:38

could hear me. So I stopped doing

27:40

any interviews. I had a

27:42

few. My very first interview was

27:44

Bill Thomas, whose sister Kathy was

27:46

part of the colonial park murders.

27:49

Oh, really. That's interesting.

27:51

Yeah. And he was very gentle

27:53

with me and walked me through

27:55

how to interview someone. It turned

27:57

out okay. I think. Yeah, right.

28:00

I love what you're doing and how

28:02

you're like this is, you know, after

28:04

your whole career that you're just going

28:06

into this full force and, you know,

28:08

learning all these skills and everything, you

28:10

know, most podcasters, I tell people all

28:13

the time, like most podcasters aren't from

28:15

media, like most of us, especially Andy

28:17

podcasters like us, are, you know, we're

28:19

learning as we go. It's a day,

28:21

I was a fireman before I did

28:24

this. Oh wow, that's great. Yeah, I

28:26

had zero background in this whatsoever and

28:28

there's just so many people like that,

28:30

so many lawyers now that are doing

28:32

podcasts and things that are just doing

28:35

great work and you know as time

28:37

goes on they get, you know, they

28:39

evolve, you get better equipment, you get

28:41

better microphones, you learn how to interview

28:43

better and you know over the years

28:46

of just, you know, those skills build

28:48

but I like that and I can

28:50

assume if somebody goes through and listens

28:52

to from beginning to end all your

28:54

podcast episodes. They'll hear that evolution. Oh,

28:57

I hope so. I actually tell people

28:59

start at the beginning or start at

29:01

the end and work your way backwards

29:03

to the beginning. Right. So you already

29:05

like me by the time you hear

29:08

the shitty episode that I did at

29:10

the beginning. That's what I tell people.

29:12

I don't think my first three seasons

29:14

were my shitty episodes. I sounded like

29:16

I was in a race. I was

29:19

trying to get through it really quickly.

29:21

Yeah. Yeah. It's hard not to when

29:23

you're when you're when you're new at

29:25

reading a script out and not to

29:27

not to go real fast. We don't

29:30

like reading the script so that makes

29:32

you go in before faster to hurry

29:34

up and get it done. I have

29:36

a drama background too you think I'd

29:38

like the scripts. Oh right. Yeah but

29:41

it's probably a little different though in

29:43

a dark room by yourself in a

29:45

closet somewhere than on stage in front

29:47

of people. Yeah my dark room is

29:49

my closet and I'm back in my

29:52

closet. You went back in. I did.

29:54

Only for the podcast though. Taking one

29:56

for the team. Right then right back

29:58

out afterwards. Do you. I'm sorry? Do

30:00

you really record it in the closet?

30:03

I do. So when... Not right now,

30:05

I'm not in the closet. I'm downstairs

30:07

in the living room because the adult

30:09

children are upstairs still asleep. Yeah, oh

30:11

yeah, you're in California, so you're on...

30:14

No, I'm in the... Oh, Oregon. Okay.

30:16

It's so funny, so many. I had

30:18

another show that I did for a

30:20

while called True Crime Bins, right? I

30:22

interviewed a lot of other podcasters like

30:25

this years ago, and it was, I

30:27

would say, 80% of them, some of

30:29

them really big podcasts, record in their

30:31

closet. Like, the closet is the best

30:33

place to record. I used to sit

30:36

on my bed with a blanket over

30:38

me. Yeah, so you don't get the

30:40

echoes. Yes, that's great. I'm glad those

30:42

days are over. I actually have a

30:44

table now that I can work at.

30:47

That's awesome. If you ever worked any

30:49

LGBTQ wrongful conviction cases? I have. Actually,

30:51

two of them I did that I

30:53

can remember. I did one about a

30:55

trans man, a black trans man named

30:58

Kai Peterson, who shot and killed. her

31:00

rapist who was on top of her

31:02

at the time. Is this in Georgia?

31:04

Yes, she lived in Georgia and she

31:06

had been to a convenience store and

31:09

some guy had made it and I'm

31:11

going to say she right now and

31:13

that's not the correct pronoun for her

31:15

because she is a he now but

31:17

going back she was a lesbian before

31:20

when I first covered the case. Okay.

31:22

She was in a convenience store and

31:24

some guy had made an off-colored comment

31:26

about wanting sex with her and she

31:28

just ignored him and walked out and

31:31

she was walking home to her mobile

31:33

home. The guy apparently followed her and

31:35

knocked her into a vacant one and

31:37

he got on top of her and

31:39

started raping her and this had happened

31:42

to her before so she had a

31:44

backpack she carried with her. Somehow her

31:46

brothers went out to look for her

31:48

and found her. and they were gonna

31:50

attack the man and they didn't get

31:53

a chance to, but I think they

31:55

pushed him a little bit and she

31:57

got into her backpack and because of

31:59

her previous. attack she carried a gun

32:01

and she was able to shoot the

32:04

attacker in court her somehow her

32:06

brothers turned against her I

32:08

think they were fearful they were

32:10

going to get sent to prison

32:12

and they said all sorts of

32:14

terrible things about her and she

32:16

was convicted of murdering

32:19

this man when it was really

32:21

self-defense and then she

32:23

was released about nine years later

32:25

I want to say with the

32:27

conviction overturned. They figured it was

32:30

a wrongful conviction and it was

32:32

self-defense. Yeah, I mean that's

32:34

like the exact definition of

32:36

like even if you take any

32:38

like firearms training and concealed weapons

32:40

classes, the times when you're allowed

32:42

to use deadly force are when

32:45

you're when somebody is in danger

32:47

of being physically harmed, assaulted, or

32:49

sexually assaulted, which is like

32:51

exactly what was happening. Right,

32:54

it was, but it was Georgia and

32:56

she was a woman of color, a

32:58

lesbian. I find that cases

33:01

in the South are harder

33:03

for the LGBTQ community if

33:05

they have committed the crime. Yeah,

33:07

that's so sad. Like they are

33:09

bad people. Yeah, and we keep,

33:11

I keep circling back to it

33:14

with that idea of, you know,

33:16

the throwaway people that, you know, they

33:18

don't matter, especially, like you

33:20

said, down in the South, especially.

33:23

where anybody that doesn't fit the

33:25

mold maybe is not, you know,

33:27

there's not as much priority given

33:29

to them, whether they're a

33:32

victim or leniency to them when

33:34

they become a defendant. Yeah, I

33:36

agree with that. There was another

33:38

case of another young black woman.

33:40

She's a lesbian. Can't remember

33:42

the state it happened in though,

33:45

but she was falsely accused of

33:47

killing an older gentleman who was

33:49

a war veteran. and he was

33:51

outside mowing his lawn and two

33:54

young people approached him trying

33:56

to rob him and he's all,

33:58

get out of here! go away and

34:01

they ended up shooting and killing

34:03

him. And this girl named India

34:05

Spelman was arrested for it, but

34:07

she wasn't the one who did

34:09

it. It turned out it was

34:11

another girl, and I don't think

34:14

they ever found, I don't know

34:16

if they ever found her or

34:18

not, but the boy that was

34:20

with her pointed out India Spelman

34:22

as his accomplice, and that's how

34:25

she was arrested and convicted for

34:27

the crime. But she eventually did.

34:29

She did get released from a

34:31

wrongful conviction. And so you've covered

34:33

up to date over, do you

34:35

know the exact number of episodes

34:38

you've done? No, it's over $2.50

34:40

though. Over 250 episodes and that's,

34:42

and you said two episodes are

34:44

two cases per episode. Like that's

34:46

incredible to me that you've been

34:49

able to track down that many

34:51

hundreds of cases that all involve

34:53

your community. Yeah. Many. And there's

34:55

so many more. I have to

34:57

tell you, there's a lot of

34:59

trans cases I haven't even covered.

35:02

There's a ton of them. Well,

35:04

are you going to be getting

35:06

into those in the future? Maybe.

35:08

There's just not a lot of

35:10

information on them. Right. Yeah, that's

35:13

got to be tough if there

35:15

are cases that you're trying to

35:17

highlight them, but if nobody's highlighted

35:19

them yet before, it's hard to

35:21

find the information, I'm sure. And

35:23

that is so freaking hard to

35:26

find out there. Right, yeah. I

35:28

love that too, that you put

35:30

that focus on the victims, that

35:32

that's the reason that, you know,

35:34

I'm doing this, the reason you're

35:36

doing this is that we're trying

35:39

to, you know, get people their

35:41

voices back. So I really appreciate

35:43

what you're doing. I haven't, you

35:45

know, I came across your podcast,

35:47

I listened, I listened to an

35:50

episode and immediately reached out to

35:52

you because, you know, in this

35:54

season we're trying to just, you

35:56

know, highlight other content creators that

35:58

are doing, you know, good work

36:00

in the space and I think

36:03

that, you know, highlighting this community

36:05

and putting that information out there

36:07

and shining a light on it.

36:09

I think is worthwhile so I'm

36:11

hoping a lot of my audience

36:14

will go over and check out

36:16

Rainbow Crimes and you can hear

36:18

CJ's 250 plus episodes and 250

36:20

more to come. Yeah, season 16,

36:22

we're on season 16, that's great.

36:24

How many episodes do you do

36:27

a season? Oh, that just depends.

36:29

We've done over a thousand, we're

36:31

like 1100 episodes, something like that.

36:33

Because we do long form, my

36:35

episodes are there, my seasons are

36:38

long form investigative series. So sometimes

36:40

it's 30 episodes, we've had one

36:42

that's been over 60 episodes, it

36:44

just depends how many we do,

36:46

and we do two episodes a

36:48

week. My seasons are much shorter,

36:51

I only have 15 episodes per

36:53

season. I had to stop somewhere.

36:55

Yeah, it makes sense to have

36:57

just a nice clean number on

36:59

it. Well CJ has been wonderful

37:01

meeting you, and thank you for

37:04

coming on, and hopefully all our

37:06

listeners will go check out Rainbow

37:08

Crimes. Thanks so much, and hopefully

37:10

we'll chat again sometime. Well, thank

37:12

you for the invite. I appreciate

37:15

it Bob. It was very nice

37:17

to meet you. Truth and Justice

37:19

is an NBA Studio's production. Co-written

37:21

and produced by Erica Bergenham. Music

37:23

for season 15 is created and

37:25

composed by Caden Lattislaw. Follow-up episodes

37:28

are co-hosted by Janet Barney and

37:30

Zach Weber. Our logo font was

37:32

created by Tate Krupa of Red

37:34

Swan Graphic Design. Our website is

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you to our volunteer transcription team.

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