0:01

Hexasort by Lion Studios.

0:03

The original Hex sorting game.

0:06

Sort, organize, and stack. Satisfying

0:08

color matches reveal power ups,

0:11

boosters, and more. You'll crave

0:13

the play. It's a mental

0:16

workout. Download Hexasort today at

0:18

the App Store or on

0:21

Google Play. Hexasort by

0:23

Lion Studios. The original

0:25

Hexasorting sorting game. Download

0:28

today! Mom,

0:30

you're playing your game again? I can't

0:32

help it. I love Hexasort in getting

0:35

to the next level. Melt into your

0:37

couch with the Hexasort app by

0:39

Lion Studios, the original Hexasorting game.

0:41

Sort, organized stack. Your favorite sound

0:43

will be winning at Hexasort. Imagine

0:46

craving your couch to play Hexasort.

0:48

And a month later, you're at

0:50

level 436. Download Hexasort today on

0:52

the App Store or Google Play.

0:54

Hexasort by Lion Studios. The original

0:57

Hexasorting sorting game. Download today. From

1:15

NBC

1:17

Studios,

1:19

this is

1:23

Truth and

1:27

Justice, a

1:30

crowd-sourced investigation

1:34

in real

1:36

time. I'm Bob Rock. Their names

1:38

are Josh and Dakota and they

1:40

are the hosts of the Somewhere

1:42

in the Pines podcast. You guys

1:44

might be familiar with that. We

1:46

did a promo for it a

1:48

while back. Comes out of Both

1:51

Ann Studios, that's Josh Hallmark Studio.

1:53

And Josh and Dakota, they've been

1:55

working to kind of continue on some of

1:57

the same work that Josh has been doing

1:59

and taking. several steps further and they're

2:01

going to be the best ones to explain

2:03

to you what they're doing on the show.

2:06

It's super fascinating. First and foremost, Josh and

2:08

Dakota, thank you guys so much for joining

2:10

me. Yeah, thanks so much for having us.

2:12

I realize I just I said Josh seven

2:14

times right then and I'm looking at the

2:16

screen and it says Joshua. Do you go

2:18

by Joshua? Oh, anything's fine. He usually goes

2:21

by Josh but ever since we met Josh

2:23

Hallmark, he goes, we had to switch it

2:25

up a little bit. I think, listen, I

2:27

have a solution for this, I have in

2:29

my students, I have two girls with the

2:31

same name and this is why I do,

2:33

so Josh Hallmark can be Josh, and you're

2:36

good Josh. I love it. That'll help everybody

2:38

differentiate between the two of you guys. So

2:40

how's things? How's things over on the West

2:42

Coast? Good? Yeah, pretty good. Yeah, just got

2:44

through some snow and ice and rain, but

2:46

beautiful over here now. snow ice and rain.

2:48

That sounds worse than what we're getting here

2:51

in Michigan. It's a typical Oregon winter right

2:53

there. Is it? Yeah. Ours has been. Ours

2:55

has not been too bad, but we got

2:57

a good 10 inches today. A school is

2:59

closed, it's meant I got a day off,

3:01

which is always nice. So first and foremost,

3:03

can you guys talk to me about... So

3:06

the basis of the podcast is you guys

3:08

are doing work out searching for the caches

3:10

of Israel keys case for... It seems like

3:12

decades now. Let's talk a little bit about

3:14

what your backgrounds are and how you guys

3:16

came to be connected to Josh and started

3:19

doing this work. I know that, was it

3:21

Josh, are you the one that's from Alaska?

3:23

No, Dakota's from Alaska. Damn it, I had

3:25

a 50% chance of getting that right. Yeah,

3:27

I know it was, I know it was,

3:29

you're from Alaska, which is where keys were

3:31

from, where keys were from, but yeah, if

3:34

you guys can go, I'll let you go

3:36

first, Dakota and kind of you go first,

3:38

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

3:40

what your background, what your background, what your

3:42

background, what your background is, what led you,

3:44

where you, where you, where you, where you,

3:46

where you, where you're, where you're, where you're,

3:49

where you're, where you're, where you're, where you're,

3:51

where you're, where you're, where you're, where you're,

3:53

where you're, I grew up in Alaska and

3:55

I was born in Washington up in Puget

3:57

Sound area all hotspots for keys and I

3:59

I had a recording studio up

4:01

there, we played music and recorded

4:04

music, and so I'm kind of

4:06

familiar with the recording process and

4:08

editing process and things like

4:10

that. I commercial-fished up there for

4:13

five years, and then I ended

4:15

up moving to Portland to pursue

4:17

music, and that's what I met Joshua

4:19

Ash, and music didn't pan out

4:21

and ended up being a contractor,

4:24

and that's what I'm still doing,

4:26

is contracting and remodels and

4:28

things like that. And so all of

4:30

those things had such a, you know,

4:32

were so in line with keys and

4:34

the things that, you know, he was

4:36

a contractor, fishermen, things like that. And

4:38

so it was really, you know, he

4:40

spent a lot of time in Washington,

4:43

a lot of time in Alaska.

4:45

So it was an immediate antennae

4:47

went up when I found out

4:49

about who he was and what

4:51

he did. It just immediately drew

4:53

a great amount of interest. When

4:55

was that? When did you learn

4:58

about Israel Keys? Boy, it must

5:00

have been a few thousand years

5:02

in March, I think. Yeah, I

5:04

think 2020. And I found out

5:07

about him through Josh Hallmark's show,

5:09

Trucine Bull shit. And I think

5:11

that Josh and I were working

5:13

on a project together. And Joshua

5:15

and I were working on a

5:17

project together. Good Josh. Good Josh.

5:19

Yeah. And I think we were

5:22

both just shocked that no one.

5:24

was really looking for the cashes, you

5:26

know, and we're both outdoorsmen

5:29

and, you know, camping and fishing and

5:31

Josh does tons of foraging and

5:33

things like that. So it was

5:35

just, it seemed like it was kind

5:37

of meant to be that, you know,

5:40

we can actually go out and do some

5:42

good and do the things that we love

5:44

at the same time. So, that's awesome.

5:46

So, so good, Josh. You guys when

5:48

you guys met you said you met when

5:50

you met when you guys met did you

5:53

guys already kind of like latched onto this

5:55

Israel keys idea or was it prior to

5:57

that? Oh, no, we met 20 years ago.

5:59

Yeah 20 plus years ago, or around

6:01

20 years ago, I'd say. Yeah, we

6:04

played in a band together for years

6:06

and toured and recorded an album and

6:08

stuff like that. So we've known each

6:10

other for a long time and we

6:12

ended up in the same line of

6:15

work and then working for the same

6:17

company also. So Joshua, what is your

6:19

background? So I'm just like Dakota from

6:21

a spot where Key's spent a lot

6:24

of time living for a little while,

6:26

New York State, Western New York. And

6:28

I lived there for the majority of

6:30

my life until I moved out to

6:32

Oregon to pursue music. And basically the

6:35

same thing. I've just been just a

6:37

blue color contractor kind of guy remodeler

6:39

for years and years and Dakota and

6:41

I once we once we stop playing

6:43

music together, we decided to do we

6:46

want to do another creative project because

6:48

just working construction all the time is

6:50

really boring. Yeah. So we want to

6:52

do something creative again and we decided

6:55

to try to figure out like what

6:57

podcast to do. my wife and I

6:59

we do like a lot of backpacking

7:01

and we spend a lot of time

7:03

backpacking in Washington where Wall Keys was

7:06

still in Washington and you know finding

7:08

out that he was in the same

7:10

places that we were backpacking was just

7:12

an absolutely terrifying thing for me and

7:14

you know I grew up in Western

7:17

New York I used to work at

7:19

Burger King and my friends and I

7:21

from Burger King we would always go

7:23

out and go to like haunted house

7:26

or scary houses and just try to

7:28

like spook each other and this felt

7:30

like a good experience a good opportunity

7:32

to kind of like have those scary

7:34

moments being on the woods trying to

7:37

find something that could lead to something

7:39

actually really important in the end so

7:41

yeah I mean that's pretty much it

7:43

you know we've been just going at

7:45

it ever since then four years now

7:48

so yeah minus the music because I'm

7:50

just came from my son's band concert

7:52

and he inherited my musical tale he

7:54

plays the triangle in the high school

7:57

band It's a tough one to play.

7:59

Yeah, don't you know? Yeah, real tough.

8:01

One of the songs, he played too

8:03

nice. I saw Bang the Triangle twice.

8:05

and we were on our way home

8:08

and I was like, you only have

8:10

two notes in that song? He was

8:12

like, no, I don't know how to

8:14

read the music. Like, that's my boy.

8:16

That's my boy. There are no solos

8:19

for him. Right, right. But beyond the

8:21

music, we're kind of all cut from

8:23

the same cloth. I was, you know,

8:25

I grew up working construction before I

8:28

was a fireman and I still continued

8:30

to be a contractor. That I still

8:32

was a fireman. until I started doing

8:34

this about 10 years ago. And I

8:36

also spent a lot of time back

8:39

back back. I do a lot of

8:41

Western hunts, which equals putting a pack

8:43

in your back and going to live

8:45

out in the mountains for a week

8:47

at a time. Yeah, well, you know,

8:50

what we should do is I think

8:52

that we should try to, we should

8:54

try to arrange like a true crime

8:56

like backpacking camping trip. And I'll tell

8:59

you who's not coming. and he's not

9:01

coming. We got him out the city,

9:03

but we got him in the woods.

9:05

He did get him out in the

9:07

woods, yeah. This past summer we got

9:10

him out searching for a cash with

9:12

us and it was he fell and

9:14

I don't think he had a great

9:16

time at all, but it was a

9:18

lot of fun and we got it

9:21

recorded so it'll come out at some

9:23

point. That's fantastic. So how does you

9:25

guys, so you guys are, you're out

9:27

on the West Coast, Josh is on

9:30

the East Coast, in your listening to

9:32

his podcast, you're into it, you're into

9:34

it, Oh man, it took forever. A

9:36

long time, yeah. Yeah. We started working

9:38

on the project and we reached out

9:41

almost right away and just let him

9:43

know that we're going to be doing

9:45

this and if he wants to talk

9:47

any time that we're open to it,

9:49

but I'm sure he gets probably 50

9:52

emails a day, people saying the same

9:54

thing or something similar. And it wasn't

9:56

until we, it was maybe three years

9:58

later, we ended up. connecting with the

10:01

FBI and we found out that one

10:03

of his a really big tip of

10:05

his was never actually submitted to the

10:07

FBI so we wanted to make that

10:09

connection let him know that you know

10:12

it's really important the FBI thinks it's

10:14

important so we had our private investigator

10:16

contact his team and that got their

10:18

attention and it kind of all worked

10:20

out from there. So when you guys

10:23

started doing this was it was not

10:25

was it was it originally intended to

10:27

be for a podcast or were you

10:29

just like this is a thing we

10:32

want to do with go out and

10:34

search for these caches? Yeah it was

10:36

it was meant to be a podcast

10:38

I mean we wanted to you know

10:40

kind of use a new you know

10:43

our own format of it's more of

10:45

a live format. And so we had,

10:47

you know, we had a pretty good

10:49

idea of the final product that we

10:51

wanted to show the audience. But yeah,

10:54

we were really lucky to get, eventually

10:56

to get Josh's attention, I think, and

10:58

it's helped us quite a bit. A

11:00

good opportunity for us to get out

11:02

in the woods again, because, you know,

11:05

as you get older, it's harder to

11:07

make trips to go out and do

11:09

things that are fun out in the

11:11

woods. So it was, it's kind of

11:14

a double, a double thing for us,

11:16

where you guys, where you guys. 42?

11:18

43? Yeah, 42? Young whipper-snapper still. I

11:20

just turned 46. I feel 60. Yeah.

11:22

But you know, you guys know, doing

11:25

that, you know, doing that kind of

11:27

thing, you know, getting out in the

11:29

woods and climbing mountains and stuff like

11:31

that, like that's what motivates me to

11:33

keep myself in shape is. because it's

11:36

it's it's can be grueling and Josh

11:38

you're that read right that you're you're

11:40

like a survivalist too like you get

11:42

into like foraging and primitive survival stuff

11:45

oh I wouldn't say I'm a survivalist

11:47

but I spend a lot of time

11:49

in the woods most of my free

11:51

time is either playing hockey or spending

11:53

time in the woods with my wife

11:56

so we do a lot of foraging

11:58

like a lot of backpacking and we

12:00

get a one of the permits for

12:02

a local logging area and so it's

12:04

really nice and open where no one's

12:07

ever back there so we can just

12:09

walk in the woods as whenever we

12:11

want. I just like to search for

12:13

you know antler sheds and stuff like

12:16

that just it's always like a treasure

12:18

hunt no matter what for me. That's

12:20

awesome. It's awesome you do it with

12:22

your wife too because you know who...

12:24

is not going to be doing any

12:27

of this. My wife, every time I

12:29

tell her, I'm like, I'm going to

12:31

Colorado, I'm going to go up Mount

12:33

Zirkle and do an eight-day elk hunt

12:35

up there. She just goes, yeah. Yeah.

12:38

Have fun. Call me when you get

12:40

back. That sounds like a good time.

12:42

If you've been struggling with your weight

12:44

and feel like nothing's going to work

12:47

for you, I have a simple message

12:49

that could change your life. First form.

12:51

First form isn't just a brand that

12:53

bought advertising on the show. Their systems

12:55

and products were the tools that I

12:58

use to break the cycle of weight

13:00

gain in my 40s and finally get

13:02

myself down to a healthy weight where

13:04

I can do the things that I

13:06

love again. This dates all the way

13:09

back to 2022. Years before first form

13:11

ever became a sponsor. October 2022. I

13:13

was 330 pounds, and I felt like

13:15

shit. I had tried everything and nothing

13:18

was working. I was close to giving

13:20

up and just accepting the fat and

13:22

happy mantra and going on about my

13:24

life when I saw my friends around

13:26

me all shedding weight like they were

13:29

in their 20s again. So I decided

13:31

to go for it. I downloaded the

13:33

first form app and got to work.

13:35

For then two months I was down

13:37

almost 30 pounds. Then I shifted into

13:40

overdrive. I filled my cupboard with first

13:42

form supplements and snacks and fully committed

13:44

to the program. Long story short, exactly

13:46

one year after that 330 pound weigh-in,

13:49

in October of 2023 I was a

13:51

lean and muscular 255 pounds as I

13:53

strapped a 100 pound pack onto my

13:55

back and climbed a mountain at 11,000

13:57

feet in Colorado. That is a 75

14:00

pound weight loss in one year, while

14:02

not only preserving my muscle tissue but

14:04

also packing on even more muscle muscle.

14:06

That's as simple as I can get.

14:08

First form works. It changed my life

14:11

and it certainly can change yours. So

14:13

give it a try, risk-free. They have

14:15

a hundred and- 10% money back guarantee

14:17

on all their products. And that, my

14:20

friends, is what confidence looks like. Get

14:22

started today at firstform.com/truth, and you'll get

14:24

free shipping on any order over $75,

14:26

and if you're a new customer, they'll

14:28

email you a link to try the

14:31

app for free. Trust me, just give

14:33

it a month and you'll see a

14:35

difference. Firstform can change your life like

14:37

it did mine. That's the number one,

14:39

ST-P-H-H-O-R-R-R-M-L-L-L-L-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T Hexasort by Lion Studios. The original

14:42

Hex sorting game. Sort, organize, and stack.

14:44

Satisfying color matches reveal power ups, boosters,

14:46

and more. You'll crave the play. It's

14:48

a mental workout. Download Hexasort today at

14:51

the App Store or on Google Play.

14:53

Hexasort by Lion Studios. The original Hexasorting

14:55

sorting game. Download today! So

15:08

you guys end up connecting with Josh

15:10

and the podcast comes out. Big success.

15:12

Sounds great. And it is kind of

15:14

a unique format. It's a super interesting

15:16

listen. The thing that impresses me the

15:18

most about it, though, is that you

15:20

guys, it is, again, it's kind of

15:22

like, you know, kind of after my

15:24

own heart, where like, just regular folks,

15:26

just like I mean, when I started,

15:28

I was a firefighter in small town,

15:30

Michigan. and you know you guys are

15:32

contractors up there in in Oregon and

15:34

then you've made contacts all the way

15:36

through to the FBI how did that

15:38

happen how did you get the point

15:40

where you're actually working with the FBI

15:42

it's uh it's pretty wild you know

15:44

we knew that we wanted to submit

15:46

the tips and the you know the

15:48

leads that we were uncovering and we

15:50

just thought it was really important and

15:53

we didn't really know how to do

15:55

that and one day we were working

15:57

on I think it was episode four

15:59

and at the end of the session,

16:01

you know, we'd spend hours in the

16:03

basement just working on episodes and rearranging,

16:05

mixing, editing, all that stuff. And at

16:07

the end of the day, we just

16:09

said, you know, I just said, let's

16:11

just call them. Let's, you know, we

16:13

just decided because it's nerve-wracking, you know,

16:15

like we have no business doing any

16:17

of this stuff. So I just called

16:19

and, you know, Josh and I sat

16:21

there. eventually someone picked up and it

16:23

was Ted Hala. It was the guy

16:25

we were looking for, you know, it

16:27

was the guy in charge of the

16:29

case for Washington State and we just

16:31

just got really lucky and he's such

16:33

an incredible asset to us and I

16:35

hope that we're an asset for him

16:37

as well or else he probably wouldn't

16:40

be wasting his time with us. Yeah.

16:42

But yeah, I mean that's how it

16:44

happened. It was just that easy. conversation

16:46

when he picked up that phone like

16:48

for you guys. Because I could think

16:50

back of the times where I've had,

16:52

you know, when I first started making

16:54

phone calls like that, like, and then

16:56

they answer and you're like, uh, hey

16:58

man, I'm somebody you don't know. What

17:00

was that like for you guys? Well,

17:02

luckily, so luckily, we got, we got

17:04

the answering machine first. And so I

17:06

wasn't read, I wasn't really prepared to

17:08

like leave a message. I immediately hung

17:10

up because I'm not the most eloquent

17:12

person in the first place. So I

17:14

was like, all right, Josh and I

17:16

sat down and we wrote out a

17:18

message to leave on the answering machine

17:20

and then the second time I called

17:22

back is when Special Agent Holla picked

17:24

up. You know, like, well, I kind

17:27

of had a script go off of

17:29

Buckley or else you probably would have

17:31

just hung up on me. And so

17:33

I just kind of read the script

17:35

that we had, you know, I had

17:37

the case number, I had all the

17:39

stuff we wanted to talk about, ready

17:41

to go, and he was just really,

17:43

really into it. He was ready to

17:45

talk, and he immediately just, you know,

17:47

we weren't allowed to go on. record

17:49

right then because we had to go

17:51

through the clearance process the media clearance

17:53

process right so he kind of coached

17:55

us on all that stuff and how

17:57

to do that and we were able

17:59

to you know it took a couple

18:01

months to get through the process and

18:03

then we had to submit all our

18:05

questions and things like that ahead of

18:07

time and then we were actually able

18:09

to start having conversations yeah we didn't

18:11

think that this was like abnormal either

18:14

we just assumed like most podcasts speak

18:16

with the FBI or It was crazy

18:18

because we actually reached out to Nick

18:20

Edwards from True Crime Garage. Yeah. And,

18:22

you know, we told him kind of

18:24

what we're doing and asked him to

18:26

mentor us a little bit. And he

18:28

was just like blown away that, you

18:30

know, they've done over 700 episodes and

18:32

they've never had that kind of interaction

18:34

with the FBI. And, you know, just

18:36

recently we released three episodes of like

18:38

three hour conversation with four FBI profilers

18:40

that actually covered Keez's case. And the

18:42

first thing that Julia Julia Kelly asked

18:44

was like, like, are you guys. What

18:46

was the word? What was the word?

18:48

Informants. Yeah, some sort of official FBI

18:50

informants and we're like, oh, I mean,

18:52

did we get a badge? Yeah. Yeah.

18:54

Like Elvis. Very strange to realize that

18:56

this is really like abnormal for this

18:58

to happen and we're super fortunate to

19:00

have it happen, especially with Ted Halla.

19:03

Yeah, I'm trying to think back. I

19:05

don't, I know I've got some connections

19:07

from retired FBI ages. I work a

19:09

lot with Jim Clementi. But it seems

19:11

like any time I've tried to try

19:13

to actually. talk to someone with the

19:15

FBI that never seems to work out.

19:17

My student, my investigative journalism students are

19:19

doing a class where they actually talked

19:21

to an FBI agent a couple of

19:23

weeks ago. They had a similar experience

19:25

to you. I watched their eyes when

19:27

she answered the phone and they're like,

19:29

uh, but they didn't get much out

19:31

of her. She definitely wasn't, you know,

19:33

she, you know, and there's the whole

19:35

media relation thing where you had to

19:37

go through that to get that approvals

19:39

which couldn't say much and they're still

19:41

working on that. One of our patrons,

19:43

Teresa, in the chat, wanted me to

19:45

ask, she said, do you know when

19:47

Ted Hollow retires as the under mandatory

19:50

retirement order? He is I don't know

19:52

if he appreciates us talking about it,

19:54

but he is It's a it's fairly

19:56

soon. So we kind of think in

19:58

Julie Cowley from the council things the

20:00

same thing that he's more of a

20:02

progressive FBI agent and You know he

20:04

there are four victims that they believe

20:06

are in Washington that they don't know

20:08

who they are And they don't know

20:10

who and with this being a case

20:12

that there's no like he's dead, you

20:14

know, he and his own life. So

20:16

there's no way to really pursue anything.

20:18

I think he just wants to find

20:20

out you know, any of those victims

20:22

if you can. So I think it's

20:24

trying new avenues. This is all speculation,

20:26

but this is trying new avenues to

20:28

try to find a way to reach,

20:30

get more tips in, you know. Is

20:32

there a, is there a plan to,

20:34

when he retires, to pass the torch

20:37

so you can continue the work that

20:39

you're doing with him? Is there somebody

20:41

like lined up for that? I'd assume

20:43

so we don't, we don't really know

20:45

that information, but, um, I know that.

20:47

especially in Jolie and Godin. She was

20:49

in Alaska and she has retired recently

20:51

and so somebody else has taken over

20:53

the case up there. So I'd assume

20:55

that somebody would be. I've Washington's a

20:57

really important state because they know there

20:59

are four victims there. So somebody has

21:01

to be up to date with it

21:03

because they're going to, you know, they've

21:05

been reaching out. There's the new Hulu

21:07

documentary, docu series on keys. And I

21:09

believe they did that too to try

21:11

to try to get more tips and

21:13

just to get the information out there

21:15

right now. I assume someone will probably

21:17

be taking over to in some capacity.

21:19

I love the idea. I mean, if

21:21

you take a step back and look

21:24

at the big picture of the whole

21:26

story, one that we have like over,

21:28

and when I started doing this in

21:30

2015, every lawyer, every cop, and it

21:32

was like they don't want to talk

21:34

to any media at all, certainly not

21:36

podcasters. And then it's like, man, we're

21:38

looking at where we're at now and,

21:40

you know, the FBI is encouraging this

21:42

Hulu documentary, they're media that ordinary people

21:44

working outside of the system are actually

21:46

affecting change. And then in the big

21:48

thing that I love is that the

21:50

way this this medium, the the podcasting

21:52

medium has has kind of helped push

21:54

that ball forward. And it's a lot

21:56

of guys like you that are, you

21:58

know, they were not, you know, just

22:00

ordinary people that picked up a microphone

22:02

in their basement and decided to make

22:04

a podcast. And it's actually like affecting

22:06

real change in the world. I have

22:08

a serious question, but before that, Susan

22:10

in the chat just realized that you

22:13

guys, you said you're a hockey player,

22:15

you're missing the Canada US final game.

22:17

Right. I'm recording it. She's scores right

22:19

now in the chat. But can you

22:21

talk about, because you guys have made

22:23

some, like, like, like, significant strides forward

22:25

in the case with the FBI. Can

22:27

you guys talk about a couple, like,

22:29

each of you, tell me, what is

22:31

the thing you're most proud of that

22:33

you've done so far with somewhere in

22:35

the pines? Well, I'd say, like, as

22:37

Dakota said, a little while ago, I

22:39

think the most amazing thing to me

22:41

is that we are an asset to

22:43

the FBI. with a very clear understanding

22:45

that what we're doing is important and

22:47

he feels that it's important. And just

22:49

this past Monday we submitted a 40-page

22:51

document with 15 different topics that we

22:53

wanted to cover of new tips, do

22:55

leads, that we talked about in this

22:57

off-the-record conversation that he wanted information on.

23:00

So that to me is just like

23:02

getting compliments from the FBI that we're

23:04

doing good work. I think it's just

23:06

something I never expected to happen and

23:08

it is just feels really good. It

23:10

feels like we're doing something We're doing

23:12

something good. You are, and that's amazing.

23:14

About you, Dakota. You can't use the

23:16

same one. Well, I mean, the FBI

23:18

just, Ted has always said that the

23:20

public is our best resource, is their

23:22

best resource for solving any of this,

23:24

anything having to do with keys. And

23:26

if we can be the, you know,

23:28

help channel that stuff from the public

23:30

to the FBI, that's, I mean, I'm

23:32

proud to do that job. you know

23:34

because there's there's so much information out

23:36

there you know like I'm I think

23:38

we'll probably talk about the look

23:40

lost cash. Eventually, that

23:42

is something that

23:44

was just floating around

23:47

on the internet,

23:49

you know, and there

23:51

was no way

23:53

that the FBI has

23:55

the manpower or

23:57

the time to be

23:59

able to go

24:01

through all that stuff

24:03

and, you know,

24:05

vet that information. And

24:07

it's, you know,

24:09

if we can just

24:11

help them in

24:13

that small way, it

24:15

can, it can

24:17

be a really big

24:19

deal. Sleep

24:26

is the foundation to good health

24:29

overall. When you sleep well, your mind

24:31

and body can perform at their

24:33

very best. That's why it's so important

24:35

to do everything possible to get

24:37

a good night's sleep. I usually sleep

24:39

pretty decently, but on nights when

24:41

I'm having trouble falling or staying asleep,

24:43

which is more often than I'd

24:46

like to admit, I need a little

24:48

extra something to help me so

24:50

I can be 100 % the next

24:52

morning. And that's why I'm so excited

24:54

to talk about Beams Dream Powder,

24:56

a science -backed healthy hot cocoa for

24:58

sleep. This product has completely changed the

25:00

way I sleep for the better.

25:03

This hot cocoa is designed to help

25:05

you get to sleep and stay

25:07

asleep without any groggyness the next morning.

25:09

Beam has delicious flavors like sea

25:11

salt, caramel, cinnamon cocoa, and my favorite,

25:13

the brownie batter. And you can

25:15

enjoy it guilt -free without taking away

25:17

from your health goals because each serving

25:20

is only 15 calories and 0

25:22

grams of sugar. Other sleep aids can

25:24

cause next -day groggyness, but Dream contains

25:26

a powerful, all -natural blend of Reishi,

25:28

Magnesium, Alphenine, Apigenin, and Melatonin to

25:30

help you fall asleep, stay asleep, and

25:32

wake up refreshed. And

25:35

yes, I probably butchered the pronunciation of

25:37

every single one of those things, but

25:39

you get the idea. Beam Dream is

25:41

an easy and delicious add -on to

25:43

your nightly routine. Just mix it into

25:45

hot water, froth, and enjoy. And look,

25:47

you guys probably remember me talking about

25:49

this before. I've been a Beam customer

25:51

for a couple of years now. It's

25:53

like my favorite thing before I go

25:55

to bed, to whip up a cup

25:57

of hot chocolate. And then within 30

25:59

minutes, I'm out cold and I sleep. sleep

26:01

through the night every time. If you want

26:03

to try Beam's best-selling dream

26:05

powder, get up to 40%

26:07

off for a limited time

26:09

when you go to shop

26:11

beam.com/ truth and use code

26:13

truth at checkout. That's shop

26:16

bea-am.com/truth and use code

26:18

truth for up to

26:20

40% off. I

26:30

thought one of you was going to say

26:32

the Laplace cash, so tell that story. Yeah,

26:35

so I mean that wouldn't have happened

26:37

without Josh Hallmark and his research

26:39

team, and then obviously it wouldn't

26:42

have happened without our connection to

26:44

Ted Halla. We were able to

26:46

take some information that when we first,

26:48

the very first phone call we had

26:50

with Josh Hallmark that was like an

26:53

official phone call, he gave us immediately

26:55

just jumped in and gave us a

26:58

ton of information. and it was all

27:00

stuff we didn't have and we were

27:02

just getting prepped for our in-person meeting

27:05

with it would have been our second

27:07

meeting with the FBI that's right Josh

27:09

second meeting yes and so we were

27:11

getting prepped to send away a packet

27:14

with all the quite all our questions

27:16

and we had that conversation with Hallmark

27:18

and he just really dumped a ton

27:21

of cash information on us and we

27:23

decided that it was a good idea to

27:25

you know, to take that along and

27:27

pass that stuff along. So again, we're,

27:29

you know, just taking any information we

27:32

can get and making sure that if it

27:34

seems like really valuable information, then

27:36

it needs to get to

27:38

law enforcement. And so we were able

27:40

to get it on the sheet. And when we

27:43

got there, or even before we got

27:45

there, there are media liaison, got in

27:47

touch with us and said we need

27:49

more information on this topic. And so

27:51

I think that Josh and I immediately knew

27:53

like, oh shit, like. where, you know, there's

27:55

something to this. And so we were able to

27:58

bring him all the information during the. person

28:00

meeting and he immediately, I

28:02

think, was it the first thing that

28:04

we went through that? No, it

28:06

was. Yeah, cell photos, the first

28:08

thing. Cell photos were first. But

28:10

eventually when we got to that topic,

28:13

he pulled out maps that they had

28:15

retrieved off of Keys' computer

28:17

and one of the maps was

28:19

of the exact location that the

28:21

witness said that they found a cache.

28:23

So we were able to connect to

28:25

all this spider web of connection,

28:27

able to actually confirm it.

28:29

with hallmarks information our

28:31

information and the FBI's information

28:34

so yeah and then they found it so

28:36

what are you guys well they didn't find

28:38

it yet so they they did go down

28:40

to go contact the person that submitted the

28:43

tip okay so it's this right now it's

28:45

just the first potential cat so so

28:47

the the person the witness claimed to have

28:49

found it and then submit to the to

28:52

the law enforcement and so the FBI went

28:54

down to go and try to track it

28:56

down but it sounds like the law

28:58

enforcement doesn't have it. So there is

29:01

no, unfortunately at this point, no evidence

29:03

to pull from it. But what is

29:05

really important about it, even beyond that,

29:07

is that that was the first map

29:09

that they pulled from his keys' computer

29:12

that actually had a grid map all

29:14

over it. So the FBI actually showed us

29:16

this map as well with different pinpoints throughout

29:18

the entire greater New Orleans area. You

29:20

know, he also showed us some. some

29:23

other new evidence where they have a

29:25

receipt from a Walmart just around the

29:27

corner from where the cash was found.

29:29

And another thing that we just released

29:31

just we just sent to the FBI

29:33

is that the car that he was witnessed

29:36

in is that the car that he was

29:38

witnessed in is exact same car that his

29:40

mother that his mother had that I don't

29:42

think the number and everything so

29:44

we're trying to make those connections

29:46

for them hasn't physically been found

29:49

but it was the first potential cash

29:51

that they had a job yet.

29:53

We're too old actually. You have

29:56

to be really young to together.

29:58

We aged out. Yeah. You're already

30:00

at mandatory retirement age before you start.

30:02

And what's cool too about that is,

30:04

I just jump in, is that, you

30:06

know, the researchers, Kim Kay was the

30:08

one that actually found that tip, and

30:11

same thing, she's just an average person

30:13

that enjoys doing research, and she's dedicated

30:15

to last, I think, four plus years

30:17

of her life, searching throughout the internet

30:19

to try to find Key's connections, and,

30:21

you know, is one tip that, you

30:23

know, 20,000 people probably saw that video.

30:25

and saw that comment and never did

30:27

anything with it and it was her

30:29

that founded connected to Josh and then

30:32

Josh got it to us. So it's

30:34

all these little little tiny connections from

30:36

people that are just trying the hardest

30:38

to make connections. Just ordinary people just

30:40

putting all their heads together, just putting

30:42

all their heads together, it's incredible. You

30:44

guys spent a lot of time like

30:46

out in the woods looking for stuff.

30:48

What are you using for? I mean

30:50

you're not just, it's not needle in

30:53

a haystack, right? narrow down where you're

30:55

searching? So the first thing, I think

30:57

the first year, all we did was

30:59

just research. So try to learn everything

31:01

about the case, everything that we could

31:03

about cashes. The FBI has found two

31:05

with Kizas' help prior to his death.

31:07

So we did a lot of research

31:09

on that and places that he went

31:11

and we actually went to the places

31:14

where the cashes were found to try

31:16

to get any insight as to... What

31:18

other little landmarks are in the area

31:20

that he could have used to decide

31:22

that this is a good spot or

31:24

why is this a good place to

31:26

place a cash? And from that, you

31:28

know, one thing we found, Dakota found

31:30

a cashy manual from the military and

31:32

a lot of the items in the

31:35

cashy manual, which Israel Keys was in

31:37

the military for three years, line up

31:39

with different landmarks that are at the

31:41

location of the first cat and Blake

31:43

Falls Reservoir, New York. spending all the

31:45

time doing the research so whenever we

31:47

go out to search because it's a

31:49

lot of money it's you know we're

31:51

just right two people trying to figure

31:53

this out so we have to make

31:55

sure when we go somewhere that we

31:58

actually plan ahead and we're not just

32:00

walking around the woods aimlessly you know

32:02

we'll go up to a, say we'll

32:04

spend a three day weekend up in

32:06

the Olympic Peninsula, you know, the first

32:08

day we'll go to all the target

32:10

areas that we want to to check

32:12

out and scout them to see if

32:14

it's a really actually a good spot

32:16

to look because we're just looking at

32:19

maps or Google Google Maps. So we'll

32:21

do a day of scouting and then,

32:23

you know, we'll go back to the

32:25

campfire and talk about what we think

32:27

is the best, most priority, the highest

32:29

priority. And then from there, the next

32:31

day, we'll go out. basically plan out

32:33

a search in all the different areas

32:35

that we think are good. That's all.

32:37

And then how does that turn into

32:40

an episode? What can people expect if

32:42

they tune into the episodes of Somewhere

32:44

in the Pines? Because you guys get

32:46

a lot of that kind of fly-in-the-wall

32:48

type of audio. Yeah, we, I mean,

32:50

you know, the whole premise was to

32:52

take the audience along with us, you

32:54

know, for the investigation and the ups,

32:56

the downs, you know, the fun parts,

32:58

the fun parts, the... sucky parts, you

33:01

know, just to kind of show them

33:03

the process and have them kind of,

33:05

you know, be a part of it

33:07

with us, you know, so that's kind

33:09

of where the live aspect came in

33:11

to the show is we want. Yeah,

33:13

a lot of these places are incredibly

33:15

beautiful, natural spaces, you know, I mean,

33:17

they're incredible. I mean, I would go

33:19

to these areas. you know if I

33:22

wasn't doing this you know just to

33:24

exist in this in these spots you

33:26

know so it was really important to

33:28

us to show the environment and show

33:30

you know all these different locations and

33:32

and really like give you like a

33:34

palpable feeling for like what what it's

33:36

like there and a big influence or

33:38

the influences for us when we first

33:40

started talking about doing this was the

33:42

Blair Witch Project, the show alone, and

33:45

the podcast Someone knows something. Yep, I

33:47

was going to say this, you guys

33:49

had that same kind of David Ridge

33:51

and vibe about it, yeah. Thank you,

33:53

I appreciate that. Yeah. I've tried to

33:55

capture that, like usually if you listen

33:57

to one of the Truth and Justice

33:59

seasons, like the first like two or

34:01

three episodes of a season, I try

34:03

to, I'm rolling tape all the time,

34:06

everything we're doing or capturing all that

34:08

odd, and then like we get into

34:10

the thick of it and we're doing

34:12

it in real time and we're doing

34:14

it in real time and we're doing

34:16

it in real time and it's like,

34:18

well, that's out the window now and

34:20

I don't have time to keep doing

34:22

that now because mine is all done

34:24

week by week by week by week,

34:27

everything in real time, everything in real

34:29

time. David is like one of my

34:31

true crime podcast heroes. I love the

34:33

I love his style and you guys

34:35

really capture that same type of vibe.

34:37

Yeah, and it's it's fantastic. Takes a

34:39

lot. I mean, it's a it's so

34:41

much editing and I mean, we record

34:43

quite quite a bit. I think we're

34:45

getting better at being selective on when

34:48

we turn the recorder on because it's

34:50

it was so much stuff to go

34:52

through so far to get that first

34:54

five episodes, six episodes up, you know.

34:56

Yeah, it's so hard because, you know,

34:58

I've interviewed David. and you know he

35:00

rolls all that when he's eating breakfast

35:02

whatever he's doing he's he rolls tape

35:04

all day every day and whenever I

35:06

do that I get back I'm like

35:08

man there was this really cool moment

35:11

when this happened and this happened it's

35:13

like well we'll just have to go

35:15

through our three different recording devices in

35:17

the nine hours of audio and figure

35:19

out where that was at and then

35:21

you get back to it and it

35:23

wasn't good at all right that's oh

35:25

my god man my my audience has

35:27

heard this story before but the worst

35:29

my old my old producer Mike we

35:32

were down we were as our season

35:34

seven were done in Bloomington Illinois and

35:36

we had him when we were sitting

35:38

here talking and he was like there's

35:40

you know those giant windmills are everywhere

35:42

and we had this conversation about it

35:44

and he was just like what the

35:46

hell is up with all these windmills

35:48

you know and like we had and

35:50

I thought later and edit I was

35:53

like you know what man we should

35:55

like let's grab that'll be a good

35:57

kind of fly on the wall type

35:59

of thing and we can we can

36:01

we can we can we can lay

36:03

that under And then we listened to

36:05

it and the truck was too loud

36:07

and you couldn't hear any of it.

36:09

So we went back and tried to

36:11

recreate it and found out immediately both

36:14

those shittiest actors that we aired it

36:16

too. It's like... Hey Bob, what's with

36:18

all these windmills? Well those are for

36:20

power Mike. What are they powering down

36:22

here in Bloomington that needs all that

36:24

electricity Bob? It was so bad! So

36:26

bad. That's my recommendation. Don't just skip

36:28

it. Don't do that. It's no good.

36:30

It doesn't work. Yeah, we've got about

36:32

a 40-minute clip of us sitting in

36:35

a car with two birds on the

36:37

hood of the car pecking at the

36:39

windshield. This is going to be the

36:41

most amazing audio. I can't wait. Isn't

36:43

that's awesome. Well, I'm loving the work

36:45

you guys are doing and I was

36:47

just looking at the feed. I've listened

36:49

to a lot of episodes. I haven't

36:51

heard all of them yet, but I

36:53

see your season one has 16 episodes

36:55

and I presume you guys aren't done.

36:58

What can we expect moving forward? Yeah,

37:00

we have, right now we're in a

37:02

mid-season break. We're trying to do some

37:04

editing and realizing that we have a

37:06

lot of tips that we need to

37:08

submit to the FBI. We want to

37:10

take time and make. finishing editing the

37:12

last few episodes and we'll get back

37:14

to releasing those shortly, but we would

37:16

have probably about seven more to go

37:19

with. We go into Lake Crescent, Ozzette

37:21

Lake, Port Angeles, Squim, Dungeoness, and each

37:23

place has something that we find super

37:25

interesting that good new tips and new

37:27

things and we have a lot of

37:29

audio that we haven't released from the

37:31

FBI interviews yet that we think is

37:33

really important. It's the end and half

37:35

of the season is going to be

37:37

really good. We had a little bit

37:40

of a detour because we, Special Agent

37:42

Hollis, showed us a new piece of

37:44

evidence and we were allowed to release

37:46

it and we just felt it was

37:48

really important to spend the time to

37:50

close the loop on that. So it

37:52

really took up, I don't know, five,

37:54

six episodes or so, just kind of

37:56

running through, you know, what this new

37:58

information could do. But yeah, we're excited

38:01

to get back out in the woods

38:03

and show people what we've found so

38:05

far. That's awesome. Well, I think

38:07

everybody should check it out. If you're,

38:09

if you take Truth and Justice

38:11

and True Crime bullshit and Someone

38:13

knows something and mash them together,

38:15

it's just really organic. It's got

38:17

a great vibe to it. These

38:19

guys are doing amazing work. You

38:21

can check it out anywhere where

38:23

you get your podcast. Go check

38:26

out Somewhere in the

38:28

Pines. I promise you

38:31

you won't be

38:33

disappointed Josh and

38:35

Dakota. Thank you

38:38

guys so much

38:40

for joining me.

38:42

It's great talking

38:45

to you guys. Thanks so much.

38:47

I appreciate it Music for season

38:50

15 is created and composed by

38:52

Caden lattice law. Follow-up episodes are

38:54

co-hosted by Janet Barney and Zach

38:57

Weaver. Our logo font was created

38:59

by Tate Krupa of Red Swan

39:02

Graphic Design. Our website is created,

39:04

managed, and maintained by Katie Ross

39:06

of Creative in tandem.com. Thank you

39:09

to our volunteer transcription team. Erica

39:11

Cantor, Kathy Mcallaney, Courtney Wimberley, Kaywood

39:14

Yomnick, Daniel Roer, Jennifer Aithi and

39:16

Caroline wire. Truth and Justice provides all

39:18

investigative and advocacy work for the wrongfully

39:20

convicted, completely free of charge. We're able

39:22

to do that in large part thanks

39:25

to you, our listeners, through your generous

39:27

pledges on Patreon. Patreon accounts for the

39:29

overwhelming majority of our funding. The number

39:31

one way you can support our work

39:34

is to become a patron at patreon.com/Truth

39:36

and Justice. For just $5 a month,

39:38

you'll get all episodes ad free. a

39:41

bonus pre-game episode every Wednesday, and also

39:43

a video version of the Friday follow-ups

39:45

exclusive to our patrons. Patrons also get

39:47

to participate and join the chat live

39:50

in many of our interviews and get

39:52

early access to much of our content.

39:54

Just go to patron.com/truth and justice to

39:56

sign up. You can also help us

39:59

out by going to iTunes and us a

40:01

a star rating and review. review. It cost

40:03

you a penny you a a long way

40:05

towards making the show more visible. the show

40:07

you have a new case that you'd

40:09

like us to consider, you can submit

40:11

your cases on our website, can submit your cases on

40:13

our.com. and Just click on the case submission

40:15

button and fill out the form. You

40:17

can always keep in touch with us

40:20

through our You can always keep in touch with us through our

40:22

email at theories at Truth.com. pod.com. You like our Facebook

40:24

page or join in on the conversation

40:26

on the official Truth and Justice official page.

40:28

You can also connect with us on

40:30

social media can also connect with us on social media And

40:32

to follow our personal accounts on social

40:34

media, I can be found our personal accounts

40:36

Janet can be found at Janet found at Bob

40:38

is at can be found at Janet However you

40:41

do it, stay engaged the stay in touch.

40:43

you do But as for now, we're signing

40:45

off. in I'm Bob Ruff. for now, we're signing off.

40:47

And I'm Janet Barney. Weaver. And this

40:49

has been Barney. Truth Justice.