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From NBC

0:47

Studios,

0:50

this

0:52

is

0:54

Truth

0:56

and

0:58

Justice,

1:00

a

1:02

crowd-sourced

1:04

investigation

1:06

in real time.

1:08

I'm Bob Roth.

1:11

This week Bob

1:13

was joined by Dakota

1:15

and Josh from the Somewhere in the

1:17

Pines podcast. They discussed their journey in

1:19

working with the FBI to discover and

1:22

identify caches left behind from

1:24

Zero Killer Israel Keys. I am back

1:26

in studio along with Bob Ruff and

1:28

Janet Varney and the three of us are

1:30

going to dive into your listener questions

1:33

and theories. But before we get

1:35

into that, Bob, I hear you have some

1:37

exciting news for us. Two things. One take.

1:39

I was saying one, one take Jake over there.

1:41

Did you guys hear that? I know you guys

1:43

as you're listening to this podcast. You don't

1:45

know that it's going to sound the same as

1:47

normal. But for those that are watching live,

1:49

that was impressive. Zach got that all in

1:51

one take. Two, I was really looking forward

1:54

to you making a nice Israel Keys into

1:56

the student podcast segue. And for all of

1:58

you just listening, the deject. on Zach's

2:00

face. It was his idea. I'll do

2:02

it Zach, don't worry about it buddy.

2:05

Yeah, so we've been talking for months

2:07

and months about my investigative

2:09

journalism students that they are

2:11

going to be putting their

2:13

podcast together for the cases

2:15

they've been investigating, one of which

2:17

ties in nicely to this episode, right Zach?

2:19

It does. Yeah, why is that? Why is

2:22

that? Do you want to go into that

2:24

right now or do you want to talk

2:26

about your student podcast? So one of the

2:28

cases that my students are covering has been

2:30

listed as a potential victim of Israel Keys.

2:32

Yeah, which happens to also be local to

2:35

us. Yeah, Stephen Craft. Yep. Yep. Stephen Crafts

2:37

case, which is right around the corner from

2:39

us, which is why my students were working

2:41

on it or are working on it.

2:43

So we have established the feed. You

2:45

can subscribe now. Anywhere, I believe it's

2:48

out, every where you get your podcast

2:50

now. It's on Apple podcast, Spotify, Spotify,

2:52

everywhere. A little tricky to find because

2:54

the podcast is called underestimated and there

2:56

is there are several podcasts called underestimated

2:59

hyphen bobcat media because that's our

3:02

school mascot. We may drop that

3:04

later because what you guys as like

3:06

it gets searched more and gets more mature

3:08

in the feed then it'll be easier to

3:11

find but right now it's going to be

3:13

like the no I didn't I pressed I typed

3:15

in Under ES, like I only had gotten to

3:17

that and it's the very first thing that came

3:19

up on my Apple. Awesome. That means a lot

3:21

of people are searching for it right now. Because

3:23

the more people search for it, the more it

3:25

moves up in the results. But it's underestimated Bobcat

3:27

media. You'll be able to find it there. We

3:29

have the trailer out now. The first episode is

3:31

going to drop on March 12. One of our

3:33

groups has, I think as of today, they all

3:35

have all of their first three. So the way

3:37

it's going to where there's going to where there's

3:39

going to where there's going to where there's five

3:42

groups. There's five groups. And the plan

3:44

is for them all to release six episodes

3:46

about their case. What we're doing right now

3:48

is all five groups are going to release

3:50

three episodes. And then as those are getting

3:53

released, they're going to be making their next

3:55

three for the follow-ups to those. And the

3:57

first one should be dropping on March 12th.

4:00

where we're ready to put music on

4:02

it, all the editing is done, so

4:04

we're super excited about that. And on

4:06

Janet's suggestion, which I think is a good

4:08

one, we're going to go ahead and play

4:10

you, the trailer, here, so you can get

4:12

an idea of what you're going to be

4:15

listening to, and I was going to go

4:17

on and tell you, the trailer, here, so

4:19

you can get an idea of what you're

4:21

going to be listening to, and I was going

4:23

to press the right button, and

4:25

here is the trailer for underestimated

4:28

estimated. My

4:36

name is Bob Ruff. For the last 10

4:38

years, I've worked in the True

4:40

Crime Space as a podcaster, documentarian,

4:42

and producer. Many of you know

4:45

me from my work on the

4:47

Truth and Justice Podcast for the

4:49

oxygen original documentary's The Forgotten West

4:52

Memphis Three. For two years ago,

4:54

I embarked on a new endeavor. I took

4:56

a job teaching broadcast journalism at

4:58

Brandywine High School in Niles,

5:01

Michigan. After a full

5:03

school year spent teaching teenagers

5:05

how to create audio and

5:07

video content, I realized that

5:09

these young adults are capable

5:12

of so much more than people

5:14

give them credit for. And

5:16

I wanted to give them the

5:18

chance to prove their worst to

5:20

the world. In August

5:22

of 2024, our investigative

5:25

journalism class began. The first

5:27

of its kind. On day one

5:29

I shared our mission with

5:31

the students. A simple mission.

5:33

Make a difference in the

5:36

world. 30 students broke up

5:38

into five groups. And their first

5:40

job was to find a mystery

5:42

that exists outside of our

5:45

school walls, outside of their

5:47

bubble. A mystery that they can

5:49

spend the school year

5:51

investigating and unraveling. And

5:54

they got to work immediately.

5:58

A killer on the loose and a family

6:00

left without answers. Jeanette Robertson's murder

6:02

in Reed City has gone unsolved

6:04

for more than a quarter a

6:06

century. We looked into the case

6:08

with state police and spoke to

6:10

Jeanette's family about the lack of

6:12

a family. It used to baffle

6:14

investigators. Edron Kowski was a substitute

6:16

school teacher who disappeared without a

6:18

trace. But even after nearly three

6:20

decades now, her family and investigators

6:22

have never stopped looking or hoping.

6:24

Janice Sanders disappeared from Niles in

6:26

1975, never to be seen again.

6:28

And now investigators are digging into

6:30

her disappearance and any possible connection

6:32

to a South Bend woman last

6:34

seen two years earlier in the

6:36

nineties of our 14 -year anniversary of

6:38

the disappearance of 12 -year -old Steven

6:40

Kraft of Benton Township. He disappeared

6:42

from his neighborhood back in 2001.

6:44

Police had no idea back then

6:46

what happened to him. Today, not

6:48

much is true. This week marks

6:50

10 years since the disappearance of

6:53

three brothers from our area. Tanner,

6:55

Alexander and Andrew Skelton. Police believe

6:57

their father, John, did something terrible

6:59

to them back in 2000. Five

7:09

groups, five cold

7:11

cases. For the last

7:13

six months, these students have been putting in the

7:15

work. They did all

7:17

the research. They filed all the

7:19

FOIA requests. They made connections

7:21

with witnesses and experts and interviewed

7:23

them. They wrote the scripts,

7:25

recorded the episodes, did all of

7:27

the editing. The music and

7:29

artwork was created by students. They

7:32

even hit the streets and secured advertisers

7:34

to help fund their own work. From

7:37

beginning to end, this journey that

7:39

you're about to embark on has been

7:41

entirely led and created by students, teenagers.

7:46

By that generation that so many

7:48

have written off as useless and

7:50

self -absorbed. As their

7:52

teacher, I am so incredibly proud of this

7:54

group of young adults and the work that

7:56

they're doing. And we are just days away

7:59

from sharing that work. with

8:01

the world. They

8:03

think we're lazy.

8:05

They think we're

8:08

weak-willed. They think

8:10

we're entitled.

8:12

They think we're selfish.

8:15

They think we

8:17

don't care about

8:19

anybody but

8:22

ourselves. We

8:24

are compassionate.

8:26

We are

8:29

compassionate. We

8:32

are resourceful.

8:35

We are

8:38

capable. We

8:41

want to

8:44

make a

8:47

difference in

8:50

the world.

8:53

We are

8:56

underestimated. A title

8:59

aptly chosen by the students.

9:01

The podcast will premiere on Wednesday,

9:03

March 12. As the season

9:05

progresses, the students will be

9:07

publishing three episodes per group as

9:10

part one of their series. The

9:12

first three episodes will be

9:14

covering the tragic disappearance of

9:16

three brothers from southern

9:18

Michigan. So make sure that you

9:20

subscribe to the show so you don't

9:23

miss anything. The journey begins on March

9:25

12. Sounds

9:36

great. There it is. So exciting. I see a

9:39

bunch of people in the chat saying that

9:41

they're tearing up a cry. I have a

9:43

real hard time every time. So the bit

9:45

where you hear the students saying, you know,

9:47

we're the students talking, that part

9:49

when the girl at the end that says

9:51

we are underestimated, like just it gets

9:53

me every time, how many times I've

9:55

heard it, it's just a little bad.

9:57

So that's going to be that bit of it.

10:00

that I played in there where you heard the

10:02

student, that is going to be the intro song

10:04

for it. And that was created by a student

10:06

named Haley that did all the music. The students

10:08

are in there and just a little behind the

10:10

scenes for you guys, how the intro was made.

10:12

I sat them all in the recording studio and

10:14

I had them just getting up and down out

10:17

of the chairs and I said, okay, I want all of

10:19

you guys to sit down and I want you to think

10:21

about how older generations look at your generations. And I

10:23

want you just to sit down and say, they think

10:25

we are and then say something. And so one after

10:27

another they sat down, they think we're this, they think

10:29

we're this, they think we're this. And I said, all

10:31

right, now I want you to sit back and tell us who you

10:33

are. I want you to say, I want you to sit back and

10:35

tell us who you are. I want you to say, we are. I want

10:37

you to say, I want you to say, we are, I want you to say,

10:40

we are, I want you to say, we are, I want you to say, I

10:42

want you to say, I want you to say, we are, I want you

10:44

to say, I want you to say, I want you to say, I want

10:46

you to say, I want you to say, I want you to say, I want

10:48

you to say, I want you to say we are, I want you to say,

10:50

I want you to say we are, I want you to say, I want you

10:52

to And then Stephanie sat down and

10:55

said, we are underestimated. And we're

10:57

like, that's the name of the podcast. There

10:59

it is. Very cool. Yeah. So super,

11:01

super duper excited about that.

11:03

Subscribe, share with your friends, give

11:05

them a listen. I'm just so desperately

11:08

wanting when we drop the first

11:10

episodes for my students to look

11:12

and see that tens of thousands of

11:14

people. listen to their work. Like they're

11:16

all like super excited about they don't

11:19

believe me that it could happen. They're

11:21

like no, we're just students doing this.

11:23

I'm like, I don't think so. I think that I

11:25

think that you can get a lot of attention

11:27

and bring a lot of attention to the cases.

11:30

You know, they're all they are all going to

11:32

have their own, you know, their own segments,

11:34

right? So they'll come out and like one

11:36

of them. They're covering three different

11:38

missing persons cases. from the same

11:40

area. It started off them looking into one and

11:42

they found another one they think might be connected

11:44

and they found two more they think might be

11:47

connected and so they started working so they they

11:49

started working on this this series of cases and

11:51

I love it I was talking to Gracie is

11:53

the name of the girl that is leading that

11:55

group and she said we're gonna call our segment

11:57

voiceless because if we do nothing else we're gonna

11:59

get than their voices back. Oh, yeah,

12:01

this is, this is really, really great.

12:04

Oh, me too, and I don't even

12:06

know them. It's really exciting. It's really,

12:08

really exciting. All right, moment is Zach

12:10

Levity for here. When the music drops

12:12

and you started talking in the trailer,

12:15

I immediately looked at you because I

12:17

thought you were expecting what was going

12:19

on, and I was like, oh. Still,

12:21

still a trailer. Yeah. I've already heard,

12:23

I've already heard the trailer, and I

12:26

still did it. And I still did

12:28

it. Yeah. So anyway, we'll move on

12:30

from that, but I know everybody's been

12:32

asking about it. I'm super excited about

12:34

it. Like this, to me, like my,

12:37

you know, my favorite accomplishment of this

12:39

year of everything that I've done is

12:41

seeing these students. And we were talking

12:43

about the pre-game. I'll stop talking about

12:45

my kids here in a minute, but

12:47

I'm just so amazed by them. We

12:50

had a school board meeting last night

12:52

on Monday night. And, you know, it's

12:54

CTE Month, which is, you know, you

12:56

know, my class is. and the superintendent

12:58

asked if we could bring some students

13:01

to talk about it and two of

13:03

my students just stood up and there

13:05

were two of them that I just

13:07

mentioned like went to the board meeting

13:09

and stood up and gave like made

13:12

speeches to the board talking about you

13:14

know what we're doing in class and

13:16

how it's impacted their lives and I'm

13:18

just sitting back thinking I've had them

13:20

both for at Gracie for two years

13:23

I've had just definitely throughout this year.

13:25

but both of them just happened to

13:27

be students that were like just very

13:29

like quiet like if you don't didn't

13:31

talk to them they were gonna kind

13:34

of fade into the background and like

13:36

now like they're they're they're so bold

13:38

and strong and they're like not only

13:40

are they leading their groups but they're

13:42

standing up and speaking in front of

13:45

crowds like that like it's been it's

13:47

been so cool to watch even though

13:49

these kids go turn out to be

13:51

investigative journalists they go out to do

13:53

something else just seeing like they've had

13:56

this life experience has been an an

13:58

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off. With that being

16:22

said, I guess we got to do our job and talk about this one. I

16:25

mean it when I say that I really want to go hang out with Josh

16:27

and Dakota. Oh yeah. Backpacking with them. I feel like I'm going to make that

16:29

happen. I'm going to go, I'm going to hook up with them and go

16:31

backpacking this summer and just go camp out in the mountain

16:33

somewhere. Well you have at least one listener who is super

16:35

kung-ho about a two-torese, two-ho about a two-two trees-up about-two trees.

16:37

One's like once the camp. One's the camp. One's the camp.

16:39

One's the campertrant meet-foot trip meet-foot trip meet-foot trip meetup,

16:41

meetup, meetup, meetup, meetup, meet up, meet up, let's the

16:44

camp, meet up, let's the camp, let's the camp, meet

16:46

up, let's the camp, let's the camp, meet up, let's the camp, let's

16:48

the camp So what you guys think

16:50

of Josh Dakota? Janet, I

16:52

know you're already a fan

16:54

of their podcast. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I

16:56

do. So I'll let you go

16:58

first. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I

17:00

thought I thought it was great.

17:03

I, yeah, I'm very familiar with

17:05

it. It's, it's fun to hear

17:07

from them and kind of like

17:09

what their inspiration in terms of

17:11

media were. It sounds like, you

17:13

know, you kind of hit the sweet

17:15

spot of like, and shop. But yeah,

17:17

I'm really impressed with what they've been

17:20

able to do. I think it's interesting,

17:22

like just yeah, the inception of the

17:24

podcast feeling a little bit more like

17:26

a little bit more casual, not

17:28

necessarily, but just when they're like, you

17:30

know, we kind of want to do

17:32

something that's like, gives you like that's

17:34

kind of spooky feeling when you're in the

17:36

woods, but also be doing something that's

17:39

helpful. I just, the sort of

17:41

men who were thinking along those

17:43

lines when they started doing it

17:45

did not expect to be having

17:47

like... incredibly meaningful conversations with the

17:49

FBI and like yeah breaking news

17:51

to the world about certain elements

17:53

of the keys case I mean

17:55

it's just extraordinary it's so incredible

17:57

to me that like that connection to the

18:00

FBI is so incredible and I love

18:02

the fact that as we talked about

18:04

on the on the on the show

18:06

in the interview that like I love

18:08

it any time it's the whole like

18:10

principle behind truth and justice too right

18:12

it's like it's ordinary people coming in

18:15

and making an impact the outsiders you

18:17

know and like that's Josh and Josh

18:19

and Dakota right they're just outsiders of

18:21

the system they're just ordinary folks like

18:23

the rest of us and they're and

18:25

they're making a real impact and it's

18:28

just that's that's that's awesome Zach before

18:30

you talk real quick, I just want

18:32

to point. I don't know if this

18:34

is breaking right now. It is 48

18:36

minutes ago. I just am looking at

18:38

it too. Yeah, so we're so by

18:40

the time you guys hear this on

18:43

Friday, they'll be much more known about

18:45

it. But I'm just seeing in our

18:47

live chat and Jack and Janet are

18:49

looking it up. But it seems that

18:51

Ivan Bates has dropped the motion to

18:53

vacate Adnon's conviction. So I don't know

18:56

anything about it other than that right

18:58

now. Had he made, I don't think

19:00

he had made a new motion to

19:02

do that, right? That motion just existed

19:04

that they were going to re-litigate? Yeah.

19:06

Is what was going on? So it

19:08

looks like he released a statement saying

19:11

that after a review of the motion

19:13

to vacate judgment filed by the previous

19:15

administration and the casing is in that

19:17

Syed, my office is determined it contains

19:19

false and misleading statements that undermine the

19:21

integrity of the judicial judicial process. Oh,

19:24

so your... Your source on that obviously

19:26

is going to be Robby. I did

19:28

see right before I came on, I

19:30

did see on Instagram, must have been

19:32

right about time, stuff like this stuff

19:34

was about to break. She had said

19:37

that there was going to be a

19:39

live on I think Wednesday or Thursday.

19:41

I guess there's a hearing coming up.

19:43

She said that her and hearing coming

19:45

up. She said that her and Colin

19:47

are going to do an episode on

19:49

the undisclosed feed to talk about the

19:52

latest development. Adnon not going back to

19:54

prison. I think he had talked about,

19:56

you know, basically changing the sentence to

19:58

time served. So regardless of the outcome,

20:00

Adnon's not going back to prison, but

20:02

you know, now it seems like he's,

20:05

they will, from the what I'm reading

20:07

right now, which is happening in real

20:09

time, it sounds like they're not going

20:11

to be litigating to overturn the conviction

20:13

again right now. So that's disappointing. And

20:15

we'll hear more about that later. I

20:17

don't want to ramble on it too

20:20

much because we don't really know what's

20:22

happening right now. And that will try

20:24

to snap back into what we were

20:26

talking about, which is this episode, Zach.

20:28

Loved it. You know, meeting those guys

20:30

in the Berkshires was really cool. Dakota

20:33

and Josh both really really nice guys.

20:35

This is a fun podcast. I've been

20:37

listening to it as well and kind

20:39

of hearing that boots on the ground

20:41

and trumping around and I'm talking about

20:43

it. It's really it's a fun podcast

20:46

to listen to. I don't know if

20:48

fun podcast listen to. I don't know

20:50

if fun podcast listen to. I don't

20:52

know if fun is the correct word

20:54

that I want to. I don't know

20:56

if it's a fun podcast to listen

20:58

to. I'm not caught that. you know

21:01

that we talked about that David Rigeon

21:03

kind of styling absolutely and when they're

21:05

you know just kick back around the

21:07

campfire just have stuff rolling and real

21:09

organic conversations are happening and I just

21:11

absolutely love that and with that being

21:14

said sorry for all you listeners are

21:16

rug kind of got yanked out from

21:18

yeah sorry I'm just trying to figure

21:20

out because there's like a memo there's

21:22

like an 88 page memo so I'm

21:24

just of course immediately and like where's

21:26

the memo can we read the memo

21:29

what's the memo say We'll see it

21:31

soon, but for now, let's go ahead

21:33

and let's get through the questions for

21:35

this episode. Then we'll circle back to

21:37

this. I may talk about a little

21:39

bit on Sunday if I know anything

21:42

more. Yeah. So in terms of Josh

21:44

and Dakota, not a ton of what

21:46

I know anything more. Yeah. So in

21:48

terms of Josh and Dakota, not a

21:50

ton of questions about this particular episode,

21:52

I can never remember how you say

21:55

that that was discussed and revealed at

21:57

the Berkshire Podcast Festival. And they've... definitely

21:59

done a whole mini series. I think

22:01

they mentioned it in the interview with

22:03

you about that particular piece of evidence

22:05

and kind of how they treated it

22:07

and all the different ways that they

22:10

tried to look at it. and get

22:12

people to weigh in on it, including

22:14

the profilers that they described on your

22:16

podcast, the group that has their own

22:18

podcast as well, who actually, some of

22:20

whom investigated while Keys had been arrested,

22:23

like they were on that case. And

22:25

so there is, I mean, other than

22:27

what you hear on their podcast about

22:29

it, I don't know of any new

22:31

developments, other than just the kind of

22:33

analysis that's available out there. on their

22:35

kind of special mini-series covering that, but

22:38

it's interesting. It's really interesting. In particular,

22:40

I would point to the conversation they

22:42

had with the profilers about it. It's

22:44

a great conversation. Yeah. You're definitely a

22:46

better source on that than me. Yeah,

22:48

it's definitely a good conversation. Yeah, it's

22:51

definitely a good conversation. In, in, uh,

22:53

underestimated, like, how deeply they get into

22:55

it and if they're exploring other... possible

22:57

suspects and people of interest and stuff

22:59

like that. I'm really really interested to

23:01

see how those things are going to

23:04

kind of cross over each other. Yeah,

23:06

well there's going to be some cross

23:08

over. You're going to hear from Josh

23:10

Hallmark because they interviewed him about the

23:12

connection. You're going to hear from Josh

23:14

Hallmark, Jim Clemente, Nina, Mike Morford. There's

23:16

a lot of other podcasters that have

23:19

like zoomed into the class to talk

23:21

about some of the cases and connections

23:23

they have to them. Jenny Deckercker. How

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25:41

do we have? Well, I mentioned

25:43

the camping trip meet up. I

25:45

think that would be really cool.

25:47

There's also a question about about

25:49

our season. You know, we're still

25:52

going to have people who are

25:54

thinking about... thinking about where we're

25:56

headed with that. So someone is,

25:58

Chris W. is wondering if contact

26:00

was made with DeMarios, friends or

26:03

family, you know, having that respectful

26:05

eagerness to know more about him,

26:07

but I don't know if that

26:09

falls into the category of like,

26:11

it seems like that's all kind

26:14

of under the umbrella right now

26:16

of like you kind of had

26:18

to stop working on stuff because

26:20

of what the wrong. Well, yeah, but not that part.

26:23

So, so the issue with them, Demarios,

26:25

I made many, many, many attempts to

26:27

members of members of DeMarios family. both

26:29

you know on the streets knocking on

26:31

doors sending out emails Facebook messages for

26:33

people that you know anybody who's connected

26:35

in any way to De Mario and

26:38

was not able to ever connect with any

26:40

of those people so they get yeah that

26:42

was a big one that I wanted to

26:44

hear from someone that was part of De

26:46

Mario's family was just never able to

26:48

do that that that came before the AG's

26:50

office took over with the conviction integrity unit

26:52

but that was one of the things

26:55

that was frustrating for lack of lack

26:57

of effort we actually had one where

26:59

like when Erica and I were like out on

27:01

the streets, you know, talking and knocking at doors

27:03

and we had made some connections and knew

27:06

or something. I don't remember what the, it

27:08

was a relative of DeMarios and we

27:10

knew like where they lived and they were on the

27:12

phone and were like cool. It was like right down

27:14

the street and like can we come by and talk

27:16

to you guys for a few minutes and they had

27:18

said yeah and then as we're like gathering up

27:21

our stuff they called back and said actually we

27:23

don't want to talk to talk to

27:25

any other. But yeah, that's been a

27:27

little frustration for me too. But as

27:29

far as Jody's case goes, like right

27:31

now I'm kind of, we're in the

27:34

dark, which I think is a good

27:36

thing. We know the conviction integrity unit

27:38

is working on the case. We know

27:40

they have gone, I believe, twice to,

27:42

maybe I'm wrong about that, whether it

27:44

was twice or it was along with

27:47

the different two different people, but

27:49

I've been to talk to Jody.

27:51

They're actively working on it. If we

27:53

wrap up our investigation and

27:55

we're done and we're not going

27:57

to do anything that we will

27:59

definitely... good working relationship, you know, sharing

28:01

documents and, and, you know, discussing the

28:04

lead, passing on leads that we found,

28:06

and, you know, I told them that

28:08

we would back off while they were

28:10

doing their thing, and they said, you

28:12

know, they appreciated that, and if they

28:15

finished their investigation and they're done with

28:17

it, they appreciated that, and if they

28:19

finished their investigation and they're done with

28:21

it, then I would have heard back

28:23

from them from now are already at

28:25

this point. So as far as I

28:28

know, they're still pushing forward with Jody's

28:30

case. And Zach just, oh yeah, sorry.

28:32

Yeah, Teresa just said in the chat,

28:34

who Teresa goes and visits Jody pretty

28:36

regularly, said that four people went to

28:39

see Jody altogether and interviewed them for

28:41

over four hours. That's not nothing. Right?

28:43

Yeah. Something is happening for sure. Yeah,

28:45

absolutely. Jesse had a question about, or

28:47

just was wondering about question, what we

28:50

think about the Gabby Petito doc if

28:52

we happen to have watched it on

28:54

Netflix. I have not watched it. I

28:56

actually know very little about that case.

28:58

I'm unfortunately not able to add much.

29:00

After watching it, in my opinion, there

29:03

wasn't a ton of new information in

29:05

the document. At least I didn't feel

29:07

like there was a ton of information

29:09

that we didn't already know. And they're

29:11

asking about. the boyfriend's parents if they're

29:14

culpable, if there's any culpability to their

29:16

whereabouts. And it's hard to say, truthfully.

29:18

I mean, I think that the parents

29:20

knew that there was more going on

29:22

there. You know, at some point they

29:25

said they didn't know where Brian was

29:27

and clearly they knew where he was.

29:29

Yeah. I think, I don't know if

29:31

it's culpability or if it's just them

29:33

trying to protect their child because they

29:36

think he's innocent. Or both. Yeah. I

29:38

don't know. I haven't wants a documentary.

29:40

I haven't wants a documentary. I haven't

29:42

wants a documentary. But I know for

29:44

you know all I know is when

29:46

it was happening in details were kind

29:49

of being released after Gabby's body was

29:51

found and you know we were as

29:53

the thing was unfolding that was my

29:55

thought was because there was the thing

29:57

that got me was that he had

30:00

left and went all the way back,

30:02

it was Florida right, like went all

30:04

the way back to Florida and then

30:06

went back again, like in his parents

30:08

were saying they didn't know where he

30:11

was, we know they did know where

30:13

he was, it was like something's fishy

30:15

there. Yeah, so I'm, I don't know,

30:17

it's hard to say, I don't have

30:19

a clue. And also I would just

30:21

caution anybody from watching a documentary and

30:24

then, you know, forming a real strong

30:26

opinion, because you just don't know, and

30:28

we try to our best to be

30:30

as fact-based as possible, but I've also

30:32

been involved with other documentarians that don't

30:35

have those same ethics, so when they

30:37

want to, you know, spin a story,

30:39

so just make sure you're fact-checking everything

30:41

before you form real strong opinions. And

30:43

I'm not putting any kind of... shade

30:46

on these people that made this. I

30:48

have no idea. I don't know who

30:50

made it. I don't know anything about

30:52

it. I'm just saying just in general.

30:54

A blanket. Yeah, a blanket. Good rule

30:57

of thought. It was, I felt it

30:59

was pretty straightforward. It was, it was

31:01

well put together. I don't think there

31:03

was anything, but there was not a

31:05

ton of new information or very little

31:07

information that I saw that I didn't

31:10

already know from just it happening live

31:12

when it, going through. We know what.

31:14

Basically what happened. Yeah, just another update

31:16

that Teresa is just kind of explaining

31:18

a little more about who visited Jody.

31:21

She says they were all lawyers. There's

31:23

four of them, one from the conviction

31:25

integrity unit, the attorney general's office, some

31:27

lawyer with a connection to law enforcement

31:29

as well, maybe like an oversight or

31:32

ethics department, which that makes me excited,

31:34

especially in that case. She had no

31:36

media people in the interview just the

31:38

lawyers. Got it. So interesting. It would

31:40

be exciting to be a fly on

31:42

the wall for those conversations, but I'm

31:45

glad that they're happening at all. That's

31:47

great. The only other thing that we

31:49

have today coming in from Facebook is

31:51

a questioning about the West Memphis 3

31:53

DNA testing from Veronica. Yeah, so that's

31:56

kind of an ongoing saga. As you

31:58

guys know, I've been kind of hinting

32:00

at things. There's been some stuff that's

32:02

been tweeted out today that they were

32:04

recording this the 25th There was supposed

32:07

to be an order of signed for

32:09

the everything to be going out the

32:11

door to get tested That's been postponed.

32:13

So that's when you see like Damien's

32:15

been tweeting about things a couple times

32:18

here and there that's what's been going

32:20

on. There's been delays. There's lots of

32:22

lawyers involved. There's still more detail There's

32:24

a lot more to this than what's

32:26

been shared. I'm super excited about it.

32:28

Damien, super excited about it. Lori, super

32:31

excited about it. I really think that

32:33

we're going to get this thing solved

32:35

through what's happening right now. But it's

32:37

just constant delays. I was told last

32:39

night that the prosecutor was sick and

32:42

couldn't be there today. And so that

32:44

was a delay. But like so when

32:46

you see like, you know, Damien just

32:48

tweeting that things are postponed or delayed

32:50

or delayed or... You know, and I

32:53

think he even said in his tweet

32:55

that like things were, it's postponed slash

32:57

canceled again. I think that that's a

32:59

lot of the same thing happened like

33:01

about a month ago when something else

33:03

came up that pushed things back because

33:06

it was supposed to be done by

33:08

now. I think like Damien is so

33:10

used to having the rug yanked out

33:12

from underneath him that I think he's

33:14

just in rightly so in his case,

33:17

like he sees every any kind of

33:19

delay anything that happened is somebody's trying

33:21

to you know, they, Because imagine how

33:23

hard this is for him and for

33:25

Jason and Jesse and everybody that's involved

33:28

in this to where you fight and

33:30

you fight and you fight for all

33:32

these years, 35 years now, and you

33:34

finally get to the point where you

33:36

think it's finally going to happen and

33:38

then the rug gets yanked out underneath

33:41

from you. And I think that's just

33:43

how he's feeling. I haven't talked to

33:45

Damien in the last 24 hours since

33:47

this stuff is shaking out, but that's...

33:49

The official word I can tell you

33:52

right now, and hopefully we'll know more

33:54

again by Friday, that's probably recording these

33:56

on Tuesdays, by Friday, things may have

33:58

changed. The official word... right now is

34:00

everything still moving forward. It's just a

34:03

delay due to somebody being sick and

34:05

it's still going to be happening any

34:07

day now. But I think Damien is just

34:09

having a really, we've talked about this

34:11

so many times before, it's a very

34:14

difficult thing to hope and get excited

34:16

about something because you go through those

34:18

like stages of grief and you get

34:20

to a point where you're like, okay,

34:22

I'm just accepted where things are at. and

34:24

I'm okay and I'm moving out with my life

34:26

and then it's like well here's a way we

34:28

can put now we can change it and then

34:31

you have to like break through all those walls

34:33

again to get back to it and so I

34:35

think every little setback feels like it's gonna be

34:37

the end again but hopefully I would love to

34:40

tell you this that you know Damien Jesse

34:42

and Jason are all pushing to get this

34:44

done prosecutor seems to be on board with

34:46

it and and it should be happening

34:48

in a matter of days it should be as

34:50

far as we know so And with that being

34:52

said, we're going to be going to have a

34:54

whole lot to talk about. I need to do

34:57

some reading about see what the hell is going

34:59

on in Adnon's case. Yeah, same. So

35:01

this weekend is going to be a

35:03

little bit, you know, we've been doing

35:06

mostly interviews, this isn't going to be

35:08

an interview, I've got kind of,

35:10

actually have an interview, I actually have

35:12

an update, I'm going to kind of

35:14

give you guys and I'm going to

35:16

kind of give you guys in an

35:18

update for that all written. based on

35:21

what I thought was going to happen today,

35:23

and then now it hasn't happened. So I

35:25

kind of, so now I'm in that kind

35:27

of holding pattern, probably waiting till

35:30

Thursday or Friday to record

35:32

once I know better what's going on. So

35:34

that'll be coming on Sunday. Sundays will

35:36

be, I'll put any updates in there

35:39

about Adon's case that we know them,

35:41

but it's going to be really focused

35:43

on what's happening with the West

35:45

Memphis 3 case and a little bit

35:47

of... a little bit educating for things we may have

35:49

coming up soon. So that being said, thank you guys

35:52

for tuning in. Thanks for listening. Thanks everybody in the

35:54

live chat, especially Teresa. Thanks for adding all that context

35:56

to the stuff about Jody. We appreciate that. We'll talk

35:58

to you guys next week. Thanks. Bye, guys.

36:00

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38:30

Yeah.