0:00

Adam Lamb: to another episode of turning the table.

0:03

My name is Adam lamb from chef life coaching, and I'm here with

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my cohost, Jim Taylor benchmark 60.

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How are you? It's so great to be with you again.

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And we have a topic today that is near and dear to our hearts.

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And we also have a specialist waiting in the wings.

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Who's really been diving deep into this particular subject.

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And we're really happy to have Scott Turner, the CEO of Auden hospitality.

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He's no stranger to this show nor to this particular topic.

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So I just wanted to ask, how's your hiring plan going? Is it working for you?

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Are you attracting the right staff?

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The Three Critical Steps to Attracting, Hiring & Retaining Restaurant Staff You_re Missing: And if you're attracting the right staff.

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Do you actually have a critical path for actually hiring them

0:48

and bringing them on board? It seems like lots of folks are applying in different places and,

0:53

you know, if you're not acting fast, sometimes they're already gone.

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And so what's what's a step that you can actually be taking in your

1:00

operation to not only attract to the right staff, but to hire them.

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And then what are we doing about retaining them?

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So we're going to be talking about. Impactful training what the data is showing us about

1:13

this generation of workers. And it's a topic as I said, that is near and dear to our hearts because of course

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we've been saying on this show for over a year, the retention is the new cool.

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And we'll get into that and a lot more right after these messages.

1:32

Welcome to turning the table, the most progressive weekly podcast for today's

1:35

food and beverage industry featuring staff centric operating solutions.

1:39

for restaurants in the hashtag New Hospitality Culture.

1:43

Join Jim Taylor of Benchmark60 and Adam Lam as they turn the tables on

1:47

the prevailing operating assumptions of running a restaurant in favor

1:50

of innovative solutions to our industry's most persistent challenges.

1:54

Thanks for joining us. And now onto the show.

1:57

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com forward slash evocalize and Jim we've already gotten some action

2:24

in the chat, so we want to welcome Andrew Jones is saying good afternoon.

2:29

And of course, at this point we'd like to bring in very good friend of ours, Scott

2:33

Turner, the principal of Auden hospitality coming to us from from England.

2:39

Where apparently you're having some English sunshine outside,

2:41

which is actually right. Jim Taylor: Definitely.

2:44

Yeah, we definitely are. Welcome Scot Turner: back, Scott. Thank you.

2:47

I think I think this is my hat trick, right?

2:49

So yeah, I'm really pleased to be here

2:51

Jim Taylor: again. Adam Lamb: You know, not everybody, not everybody gets

2:54

to be on the show three times. Scot Turner: No, I'll I'll wait for my golden disc coming

2:58

through the post, right? Jim Taylor: Yeah.

3:03

Well, it's good to Adam Lamb: have you back. There's, there's lots to dive into.

3:07

And of course, there's three particular portions to this whole idea of having

3:12

the right staff, having a killer crew that really not only makes you shine, but

3:17

it's also what we've come to understand is an incredibly symbiotic relationship.

3:21

There's stuff that as we show up, so do they.

3:24

And so I wanted to get into get into a couple of these topics.

3:30

And the first one is attracting the rights, the right staff.

3:33

And I, Great shout out to Karen, who's coming to us from Abu Dhabi.

3:38

Hi, Karen. Now, I think that's, I think that's where you do some work as well,

3:42

don't you, in the Middle East, Scott? Scot Turner: Yeah, yeah, I used to I used to run a venue

3:47

there for five years, actually. And I spoke to Karen a couple of times.

3:50

I used to live in in Dubai, so not too far away.

3:53

So, yeah, yeah, great memories. Adam Lamb: Fantastic.

3:57

So as a matter of fact, you were, you were on a on a show a little

4:02

earlier today with Chris Hall. Good friend from the burnt chef project.

4:05

And you guys were talking about this and after the initial blush of the, of

4:10

the go, what kind of thoughts remained with you after that, that we might bring

4:15

up here that maybe you didn't get to, or, or hoped to highlight even more.

4:20

During that particular broadcast. Scot Turner: Yeah, it was funny.

4:23

I mean, we touched on it on a couple of different on a couple of different

4:27

subjects around this and it's a really interesting topic because I think, you

4:30

know, we were speaking off air there. It's such an emotive subject that everyone knows we need to do

4:35

something about and, you know, some people are good talking about it.

4:41

Some people are acting on it. Other people need to need to find the time to be able to do it.

4:46

But you know, I said something earlier that I've never said before, but

4:50

actually when I was in the in the flow of doing it and reflected on it after

4:55

I thought, you know, actually what an amazing what an amazing period to be in.

4:59

And that was I. Don't think we've ever been in such a time where it's so exciting in terms of the

5:07

workforce that's coming through as it is right now, because the workforce that's

5:12

coming through now, right now are probably never been so creative as they are today.

5:17

And that gives us a huge opportunity from a, from an industry perspective

5:22

to really start going into the next level of, of what this industry can

5:26

become in terms of people embracing.

5:29

Tech embracing different values, being more creative.

5:33

And I think, you know, everything, sometimes you can find yourself talking

5:36

about this subject and you can start getting focused on the negatives too

5:39

often, and I think it's worthwhile just celebrating that for a minute

5:44

that we're in a, an amazing period now that people can capitalize on it.

5:49

We're going to start seeing some special stuff coming through, I think.

5:51

So that was one of my key takeaways from today.

5:55

Jim Taylor: Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I mean, we've talked about this on this show and in a couple of the

5:59

platforms that, you know, there's, I, I truly believe that Gen Z is going to

6:03

be the best thing that ever happened to the hospitality industry, right.

6:06

And like you said, creativity is a big part of that.

6:09

The other part is they just have options. So if we're not the best option, they're going to go somewhere else.

6:16

Right. So I think it's just forcing our industry to just be creative

6:19

and look at things differently. I agree completely. Scot Turner: Yeah, definitely.

6:22

I mean, it's. Yes. I mean, it's never been there's never been such a focus on it

6:30

being an employee's market before. It's always, and you know, I think I was listening to a podcast you were

6:35

on today and, and and you were talking about how we've kind of papered over the

6:39

cracks for years because there's been this churn of people coming through.

6:43

through and all of a sudden that bandaid's been ripped off and

6:47

we're starting to see people fall through the cracks, whether that's

6:49

businesses or whether that's people. And it's, you know, the, the people who come to work for us have never had so

6:58

much choice, potentially so much power.

7:01

And so many opinions in terms of what, what is right and what is wrong.

7:05

And I think that is again, you know, I've shared stories before of when I came back

7:09

from the Middle East to the UK and I saw such a change in the workforce that it

7:14

did take me time to adapt and it did take me time to understand what was different.

7:20

But we have to be clear about it, that the new generation have got a bigger,

7:25

much bigger voice than we ever did. They are much more vocal about what they want and what they expect from people.

7:33

We are the people who have to change because they, they

7:36

are not going to do that. So I would encourage anyone listening to the show.

7:40

That's a leader right now, finding it difficult to, to keep people.

7:46

We need to start looking at retention as a key key strategy

7:49

because, it's not going to go away.

7:52

Jim Taylor: Yeah. There's an interesting stat that kind of keeps popping into my mind every

7:56

time I get into this conversation. And that is that at least in a lot of the North American markets, I'm sure

8:01

the UK is not that much different. 80 percent of the people applying for restaurant jobs right now have

8:06

never worked in the industry before. So the first thing that, you know, when, whenever I talk about that with somebody

8:12

that I can, you know, and Scott, you just were nodding going like, okay,

8:15

that's, you know, that's interesting. And I think the first part of that stat that people latch onto is

8:20

this 80 percent piece they go, oh, my gosh, everybody's brand new.

8:24

Right. And they worry about the lack of experience or the, how much they get

8:28

up to train people or, you know, what industry are they coming from all of

8:32

But the other side of it is also, I think, equally interesting for our

8:35

industry from from you know, making sure that there's a reminder that we

8:40

do need to change and evolve, because what that's also telling us is that

8:43

only 20 percent of the people working in hospitality are crazy enough to try again.

8:50

The rest of them are going, I'm out. This is, you know, it's not for me anymore.

8:55

So that's the one I jump on to. It's okay. If only 20 percent of people are actually.

9:00

You know, willing to try again, for lack of a better way to put it, then

9:03

that means we have to find a better way to hire, train and retain those

9:07

Adam Lamb: people. Yeah. And I just want to kind of jump on that as well, because I remember the

9:12

burnt chef project did a survey towards the end of the pandemic shutdown.

9:17

So, you know, industry lost 6 million jobs, et cetera, et cetera.

9:21

But the interesting part of this survey was that I think 60 or 70 percent

9:26

of the people who left the industry. Planned on coming back within, I think, a year and a half or two years.

9:32

So we're right at that limit where, you know, folks are looking to see,

9:36

you know, what changes we've made. You know, I call this the great reset.

9:39

What a great opportunity for us to, like, think of different ways.

9:42

And to your point, Scott, you know, really listen to our potential staff

9:46

members because they're telling us what they're looking for and will be

9:50

to us if we're going to be complacent enough to say, well, no, no, no, no, no.

9:53

I wanted to return to the way it was before because it's, it's

9:56

never going to get that way. So I just wanted to highlight the first part of this, which is how

10:01

to attract to the right staff. And our friend Jensen Cummings loves to say that, you know, every, every

10:07

hospitality company, restaurant, hotel, chef, catering company is a food service

10:12

company and also a media company. And the quicker they get on that and understand that part of their business

10:16

is to own their narrative, which means, you know, taking this out.

10:21

You know, and using that and creating fun little short form videos and posting

10:25

them in the places and on the platforms where your potential associates might be.

10:29

And that might be TikTok where a large portion of that younger crowd is, but

10:33

also just showing, you know, sure, there's some gravitas to what we do and some of

10:38

us take it a little bit more seriously than others, but you know, it's also fun.

10:42

It can be fun and to be able to illustrate that in little short

10:46

term, short short form videos.

10:49

And as I like to say to my chef friends, stop posting static pictures of food, man.

10:52

Nobody gets that except other chefs. So, you know, whether it's, you know, food porn or whatever, but you're

10:56

talking within the bubble and you're not necessarily going outside of

11:00

that to engage them where they're at.

11:03

And I think that's probably another piece, Scott, to your point, you

11:07

know, we gotta be where they're at.

11:10

We can't just ignore them and expect them to come up to our level.

11:14

And that's what right before we went live, we were having a conversation

11:18

about short form video training.

11:20

Which to me is like one of the most exciting things out there, because

11:24

to be honest, as an operator, that's one piece I would really like to

11:27

offload because there's just so much that capitalizes on our time.

11:32

So speak to that. Wouldn't you? Because I think that probably goes towards.

11:36

Maintaining and retaining great staff, right?

11:39

Are they being trained properly? Do they have a clear career trajectory through the organization?

11:43

Things of that sort. So can you speak to that for a bit?

11:46

Scot Turner: Yeah, 100%. I you know, the subject we were talking about before I'm working

11:51

with the SAS startup company.

11:53

Based out the, out of the uk. And they got in contact with me when they were just in idea fairs and

11:58

said, you know, we want to speak to people in the hospitality industry.

12:02

We, we think it's we think we're onto something, but we're not

12:05

quite sure how it'll be embraced. And I went and spoke to, to these guys, Jonah and, and Jules And I

12:13

saw what they had and I listened to what they said and instantly I

12:18

said to them, let me work with you. Let me work with you, because this has the opportunity to change how

12:24

we train people in the industry. And it's a system called Blend.

12:27

And what it is, is it's video, first short form training content.

12:35

An employee can create a training.

12:37

Session in about two to three minutes if they've already got the video on

12:42

there It's as easy as posting on tiktok instagram and on the rest of it What got

12:47

me intrigued by the whole thing was a couple of things first of all, they were

12:50

talking about how the generation today Even us, the other generation, but how

12:57

we consume content today is in short form content, whether that's written, whether

13:03

that's pictures, whether that's video, but it's starting to lend more towards

13:06

towards video now and what they were talking about was how the, because we're

13:11

also used to consuming content in short.

13:14

Our concentration levels don't extend into long form.

13:19

So if you're going into a business and you're on the way into work and

13:24

you're consuming everything in short form and you're watching videos,

13:27

you're scrolling through reels, et cetera, and then you walk into your

13:30

first day's training in a new job.

13:33

And you sit there and the training manager's there and she gets all hyped up.

13:37

But she brings up the PowerPoint that has one of 43 slides.

13:41

Your team will switch off because that to them is the idea of it.

13:46

Whereas if you are in there and it's short, it's buzzy, it's small, it's short,

13:52

impactful sessions, it's much likely to stick with them because they'll feel more

13:56

engaged and their brains are used to going two minutes impact, stop, two minutes

14:00

impact, stop, scroll, scroll, scroll. It's a bit like when you're working out, right?

14:05

doing a four minute sprint is as good as doing a 20 minute run.

14:09

It's that type of, it's that type of scenario.

14:11

So that was the first piece that like really got me intrigued in this, in

14:15

terms of going, do you know what? We need to bring these people into our circles when we're deciding what the

14:23

strategy is around how we communicate to our people, because they're the people

14:29

who know how to be engaged their way.

14:33

So that was the first piece. And then the second piece in that was, you know, We're always looking now

14:40

as a business because of increasing costs to look at where efficiency

14:43

efficiencies can be and what's the first thing that goes in those businesses.

14:47

Often it's training. So the whole platform was around, you know, if I can take a video

14:52

in a restaurant of food, but when the food comes to my table and I

14:55

can put it on Instagram within two minutes, why can someone not do that?

14:59

When it comes to training. So instead of you needing to pay for the videographer to do a video of the chef

15:05

making the dish to them, get the edits back and four weeks later, you might have.

15:10

The menu there and you lose all the agility around how we need to how we

15:15

need to run restaurants at the minute. Why can't we do that in real time and be really authentic

15:21

around how we put it together? It doesn't need to be, it doesn't need to be tidy.

15:25

It's a training video. It needs to show real life.

15:27

It needs to be, it needs to be authentic.

15:29

And if we can do that. On an iPhone or an Android or whatever format people are using, and we can

15:36

get that uploaded as a module, as a training module in two to three minutes.

15:41

How powerful is that from a training perspective, that you

15:45

could have a full menu done in an afternoon that your team can then

15:49

be actively trained on that night? It's, it's super powerful.

15:53

Yeah. And, and, you know, As soon as I saw this and heard the pitch and heard what

15:59

it was all about, I had to work with them because I just think it's, it's,

16:03

it's a, if, you know, I've seen it in practice, it is looking really strong,

16:07

but I just think there's an opportunity where anyone can invest that type of

16:12

format with a system or not, and just introduce that into the business, right?

16:15

WhatsApp groups, we all have, you know, training platforms.

16:19

How can we start taking those PowerPoints away, putting video in there?

16:23

Right. And then what, what are the new workforce wanting from people?

16:27

They want in genuine, they want people to be genuine.

16:30

They want authenticity, you know, hashtag no filter.

16:33

So, actually not making things look pretty, not making things look too too...

16:39

Precise and everything actually sits with them far greater than going

16:44

out, getting a videographer done and touch ups and all the rest of it.

16:48

So I think there's a huge potential to really look at to really look

16:52

at things differently when it comes to, to how we train our people.

16:55

And it's back to that, you know, back to that, how do we attract people properly?

17:00

Again, let's start talking to them as Adam said, on tik tok

17:03

and shop form and why does your.

17:06

Why does your customer guest message have to be different

17:09

from your employee message?

17:13

It doesn't, it doesn't have to be, it's, it's about, you know, the

17:16

same values stick for everyone.

17:19

So I think it's, it's, how do you talk to everyone?

17:23

On the same message that keeps the brand kind of conducive to what it is and starts

17:28

really, you know, talking in the same way.

17:30

And I think you know, that's key.

17:33

Another subject I brought up this morning actually is that, you know, I'm not

17:37

sure we do a great job sometimes in the industry of showing how good we can be.

17:43

I think we, we, you know, we're a bit understated.

17:45

We're like a Brit. We're understated. You know, we don't, we don't stand up and shout from the rooftops

17:50

and say what we can do for people.

17:52

And sometimes I think we can be a bit selfish and going, we're

17:55

going to teach you how to serve plates and do silver service in the

17:59

old days and this type of thing. Actually, think of the soft skills that you learn in hospitality.

18:06

Even if you come and do a two year stint while you're in university and

18:09

you're a transient employee, think of the skills that you leave with.

18:13

And I don't think we do enough of shouting about that.

18:16

I don't think we do enough of that. Sharing that with people when they in the industry to then keep them engaged

18:22

until when they leave, because all those soft skills that you pick up that I've

18:26

certainly picked up from being in the industry, I wouldn't have gotten if I

18:30

hadn't worked in hotels, restaurants, etc.

18:34

So I think, you know, from an attraction purpose, I think we

18:37

should stop being so selfish about how we great running restaurants.

18:41

And I think should start talking more about, you know, We can teach

18:44

you how to deal with pressure. We can teach you how to budget, how to finance, how to how to yield.

18:51

You know, let's, if I'm running a book in a restaurant, I'm learning

18:55

how to yield inventory that can go into so many different careers, but we

19:03

don't swap them from restaurant into others to show people that they're

19:06

actually learning different skills. So I think, you know, there's a, there's a huge piece around, around.

19:12

Sharing how great we are as an industry. Yeah,

19:15

Jim Taylor: couldn't agree more. There's a comment you made a couple of minutes ago there, Scott, about

19:21

the one of the first things to get cut is training and interesting.

19:26

Just, you know, when you think about that from a big picture of business perspective

19:29

and finance and you know, it's all everybody who's running a restaurant is.

19:33

In one way or another trying to probably make some money, right?

19:36

I mean, they're probably not doing it for charity. I was talking with DJ who is the host of the podcast for seven

19:42

shifts the other day great guy.

19:45

And he's, he does some awesome content for them. And we were talking about a survey that they had done.

19:52

That they pulled, I don't know, a few thousand and DJ, if you see or hear

19:56

this, don't I apologize if I butcher the number, but they pulled, let's say

20:01

thousands of restaurant operators in North America on what the biggest challenges

20:05

were that they were facing right now. And inflation was number three, I believe.

20:10

But the first two were retention was the thing that they found

20:15

was the hardest thing to deal with in the industry right now.

20:17

And the second thing was their labor cost management.

20:19

And so we were having this discussion about. Well, if, if you improve the training, which would improve the

20:27

retention, potentially your labor costs would come down because

20:30

the cost of turnover is so high. Right?

20:32

So it's interesting to see that those were number 1 and number 2.

20:35

And just that the discussion around how connected those

20:38

Scot Turner: things are, I mean, I'm sure you've seen, yeah, I mean, I'm sure

20:42

you've seen the same Jim in operations that you've run the best operations.

20:46

I run with the most consistent consistent from a, from a people

20:51

perspective, the teams who stuck around the longest and they were the

20:54

ones who fundamentally delivered. Better results because there could be more efficient.

20:59

They were more passionate, more engaged. Jim Taylor: Yeah.

21:02

And it was, it was interesting just to just the way that that discussion went and

21:06

maybe we can touch on this a little bit. I'd love to hear your take on it, Adam, you too.

21:10

But so retention is the number one challenge they're facing.

21:15

Labor cost management is number two, but like you just said,

21:20

so often the approach is. We need to be profitable.

21:24

So they actually address the number two problem before the number one problem.

21:29

They go cut harder, lower your labor costs.

21:32

And the manager is left with, what do I do?

21:34

Where's the, where's the easy fact trim just cut training, which

21:38

then compounds the number one problem, which is retention, right?

21:42

Do you understand what I'm, you agree with what I'm saying?

21:44

I'm curious your take on that because, and, and Adam in the back house too,

21:48

from a chef's perspective, there's so much to unpack there, I think.

21:52

Adam Lamb: Well, the first, the first thing that runs to my mind is, you

21:56

know, again, if this is the great reset, then from a financial standpoint,

21:59

we have to throw the old model out. Whereas, you know, there might be a little bit of money in there

22:03

for, for preopening training.

22:06

But after that training is basically, you're supposed to like bundle that up

22:11

with the hours that you already have allotted and the money that you already

22:14

have to spend for operational labor yet.

22:17

Very little is set aside like, okay, here's 2, 000 a month for training,

22:21

which might mean getting everybody together around a table and learning

22:24

how to break down a whole swordfish or something along that lines, right?

22:27

Because now, Scott, to your point, you're assisting them and building

22:31

skills that are going to last them in the rest of their lives.

22:34

And that is an incredibly important thing and something I don't think we

22:37

think a lot about as a matter of fact, I was having a conversation with Greg

22:40

Gorgon from the Pineapple Academy, which is kind of a similar thing.

22:44

They have these short form videos and you can actually upload your own as

22:50

well to create this blended environment. Everything from how to turn a fryer on to how to, you know,

22:55

clean out a sink or whatever. But the thing is, you know, I said, so, so you have all these hard skills.

22:59

Like, what about the soft skills? Like there's something to be said about teaching somebody how to, you

23:05

know, manage a table, how to tour somebody through the menu, how to

23:08

really invest in what it's like.

23:11

To be a hospitarian because somewhere along the line, it just

23:16

became a transaction in a lot of operations and it's just like,

23:20

okay, what's your, what do you want? And let's go now.

23:22

You know, I go to a diner and that's the way that I order because first

23:26

thing in the morning, you know, I'm not really looking for that

23:30

hospitality piece is so important.

23:33

And I just want to kind of highlight this one, which Karen

23:36

through a very, very poignant Point into the chat, which is agree.

23:41

The industry does not promote itself. Well, nor effectively to any generation, not just the younger crowd.

23:47

And I thought this was pretty sage because she says many early retirees

23:50

are looking for part time, temporary jobs and overlooked due to age.

23:54

So this idea of ages and existing, and we can only.

23:58

bring in young staff is probably missing the boat because there's a huge work

24:02

force out there that would love to be engaged, who love to be in relationship,

24:05

who are great at the table side.

24:08

So I know that there's a couple of things in there, but if we're not

24:12

budgeting for training, then we're just doing everybody a disservice.

24:15

Jim Taylor: Yeah, Adam Lamb: couldn't agree more. And Karen also adds again, the industry focus on well on training the essential

24:23

yet neglects personal and professional development, essential ingredient

24:26

to engage and retain employees.

24:28

And I don't know about you guys, but my dad didn't teach me about finances.

24:32

My very first credit card I got at 18 was a Montgomery ward credit card back

24:37

in the day when there was Montgomery war. That's probably dating myself and they had a gas station.

24:40

So that's what I used. But I busted it out within 18 months.

24:43

I'm like, what do you mean? I have to pay this back. What do you mean? There's actually more money.

24:46

So to your point, Scott, like teaching people on how to actually

24:50

budget and use their money. Some of the technology out there where you can access a portion of your earned

24:56

pay already by using this particular card is a great way to start, have a

25:00

conversation because the fact is, is that we're not just hiring hands, we're

25:05

actually hiring a whole human being. And so to the effect that they can be successful in their personal life,

25:09

they also get to bring that in and become successful within the operation.

25:12

So, Scot Turner: yeah, and I think that's going to be probably

25:15

one of the biggest shifts. I think it's one of the biggest shifts I'm seeing in operations

25:19

right now that the, the teams.

25:23

Are willing to learn. How about why?

25:26

And they're willing to learn about the, the hard skills.

25:29

But they're also asking employers what is in it for me.

25:33

Mm-hmm. And when they're mean that they mean, what other courses can

25:37

you give me that can help me? Whether that is, you know, digital marketing, whether that is

25:42

wellbeing, whether that's mental health, whether that's back to

25:45

your point, financial training. And you know that they want these soft skills as much as they and

25:52

they're willing to do the other bit, but they want that as well.

25:54

And I think that's where now we have to do that.

25:57

And if we're sitting down and have meaningful conversations and

26:00

connections with our teams and we're saying to them, you know,

26:03

what do you, what, what do you want?

26:05

What, what, how can we help you? And you've got a student there who's training for, it.

26:10

I don't know, marketing course. And she says, I want to learn more about digital marketing.

26:14

If we want to keep that person there for all of the duration of her studies,

26:18

we need to help her deliver that. Does she look after the social media accounts?

26:22

Does she look after Insta stories? Does she go and spend some time with the marketing guys?

26:26

So I think we have to be a little less worried about the fact that

26:30

people might leave and be a little bit more interested in what they

26:34

want, because if we keep them for that duration, it's ultimately going to be.

26:42

A retention perspective and all rest. I think it, it's a huge thing that's changing a little bit there as well.

26:47

And you know, I, I think it's a really good point from, from that

26:52

perspective to, to kind of bring that Jim Taylor: up. Well, it's, it's like that what's the quote?

26:58

It. You know, what happens if I train my people and they leave?

27:04

Well, what happens if you don't train them and they stay? You know, it's kind of like, there's this risk of like, I'm going to give away all

27:12

these trade secrets, and then they're going to go work for the competitor.

27:14

Well, but what if you don't teach them all those valuable skills

27:17

and then they stick around? Adam Lamb: And become an albatross around the neck of the operation.

27:22

Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Scot Turner: You're making them better people for your business.

27:26

You give them financial skills. They become better people for your business.

27:30

If you teach them how to look after themselves and well being

27:34

and all that, they're going to come back to the business.

27:36

Like if you have financial problems because you can't manage your finances

27:39

at home, you're not going to concentrate on your guests because you're going

27:43

to be too worried about the next bill you have to pay, et cetera.

27:46

So it's about ultimately it benefits the business in an indirect way.

27:52

It's showing your people that you care and you know, that, that came up a lot in the

27:57

conversation we had earlier is how do you show people you care because that makes

28:02

a huge difference to how people think, you know, salary is great, etc, etc.

28:07

And it's funny, I was speaking to a hotel GM, literally about half an hour

28:12

ago, and he's just gone back to the properties working in now after 3 years.

28:17

And I said, how come you've gone back?

28:20

And he turned around and said, you know what, here they look after people's...

28:24

Well, and in 3 years, I've come back and there's about 60 percent of the people

28:28

who were here before still here now, because they just look after them so well,

28:37

understand there's lots of the kids, etc, etc. And it's, you know, it's sometimes it's those little

28:43

bits that people are driven by. It's not the only one.

28:47

We talked about, you brought up Jensen Cummins earlier, and

28:53

I shared this example on the call this morning, but. I saw him do a post a few weeks ago about how he was getting some, I think

28:58

it was 75 no shows for interviews.

29:01

And the next day he went on video, sent everyone a WhatsApp message

29:07

beforehand saying, looking forward to seeing you tomorrow, this is how you

29:11

get here, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And very personal, direct, and I think he got, was it 80

29:16

people showed up the next day. I tried that with an operator last week.

29:21

Or was it this week? This week. And we, we got, we've been getting zero.

29:26

We've been getting no one turning up. I tried it this week, 52 percent of people turned up.

29:31

That's from zero to 52. And the F& B manager literally got on a WhatsApp and said, It's in a hotel.

29:37

Got on the WhatsApp. This is the nearest tube. When you get to the lobby, be a bit intimidating, but go

29:43

upstairs, speak to the hostess. I'll be along.

29:45

I know you come in. So even if I'm a bit late, cause I'm caught up, don't worry.

29:49

I'll be there. 52 percent of people turned up.

29:51

So it just goes to show that by having that little bit of effort,

29:54

that little bit of care makes such a difference to, to people.

29:58

And, and that's amazing. It's a great

30:01

Adam Lamb: example. I am so glad that you brought that example up because based on

30:04

that same conversation, because I heard the same thing there was a,

30:08

there was a software marketplace online called app sumo, a PPS UMO.

30:14

And I was just cruising there looking for. Some software for myself because I'm tired of paying subscriptions.

30:19

And these are like very often a one payment lifetime deals.

30:22

And they actually have a video platform for hiring and vetting

30:27

associates that works exactly the same way for 49 bucks, man, 49 bucks.

30:31

You put that in. And now all of a sudden there's a direct pipeline and people are

30:34

seeing your face and they get to know that, you know, you care and that

30:38

you're, that they're safe, right? That safety and the care is like one of the two biggest, highest things.

30:44

And I was thinking about. You know, the retention piece when you were talking about and Jim, I know we

30:49

talked about this on the show before, but there's an operator that basically went

30:53

to the craft store and got a big piece of whiteboard and posted it in the kitchen.

30:57

And he created basically a personal development scorecard for his associates.

31:02

So I want to go to school. Okay.

31:04

What are the steps in that? And, or I want to write a book and he would post that up and they

31:08

would celebrate those wins with the associates in front of everybody.

31:12

Like it doesn't have anything to do with work. I mean, you might say that, but any, any, any time you're building

31:18

a skill, you're that's going to show up everywhere, but now you're.

31:21

showing that you care enough about them in their personal lives to see them win.

31:25

And, you know, very often there may be some wisdom that you have

31:28

that you can share with them is to, to facilitate that journey.

31:33

And now all of a sudden you're not necessarily a leader anymore, but

31:35

you're a mentor because now you care about them in a personal way.

31:38

And I think that there's Like, yeah, there's some technology out.

31:43

That's that's fantastic. And there's a cost associated yet.

31:46

If we're really asking our associates what they're actually looking for very

31:49

often, those are those are dimes to the dollar or, you know, pennies to the

31:54

quit or whatever you want to call it. But and it takes a little bit of creativity, but, you know, we've

31:59

got this great thing called Google. And YouTube, which is the second largest search engine in the

32:04

world, there's somebody probably modeling something like that.

32:07

It just takes the time to actually look. Yeah.

32:10

Jim Taylor: Well, and, and Anthony Valletta, we've had him on the

32:12

show president of Bar Taco, they're doing some really cool stuff around

32:18

that, exactly what you're saying. And him and I had an interesting discussion, partly on the episode.

32:22

And since then too, about so many companies are focused from a

32:27

retention perspective on the, on people's lives outside of work.

32:31

Right. Let's add benefits, unlimited vacation, you know, 401k matching in the U.

32:36

S. or, you know, RRSP in Canada or whatever it's called, UK you

32:39

know, savings matching type stuff.

32:43

Or, you know, pet insurance or whatever it might be, they're adding all

32:46

these benefits to try to improve the life portion of work life balance.

32:52

But so many companies are missing the opportunity to improve the

32:55

work part of work life balance. And, you know, Anthony made a comment we were talking about that it's all,

33:01

all of that stuff outside of work. Is for nothing if the second you come back to work and you're

33:07

overwhelmed or stressed out, right? So we've been having a lot of discussion lately and the stuff that the work that

33:12

they're doing to basically recreate the entire management and employee experience.

33:17

Is doing some really cool things for them from a retention perspective,

33:20

but they're looking at lifestyle and workload and stress management

33:24

and, you know, all these different, the whole service model is changing.

33:27

So there are some really good companies, like you said, Adam, whether it's

33:30

on YouTube or LinkedIn or wherever you find them that are doing some

33:34

really good stuff around that. Adam Lamb: And if anybody ever needed any ideas, you know Scott Turner's

33:43

details are in the chat and I'll make sure that they're posted in there.

33:45

And the link to Auden hospitality, certainly Jim from benchmark 60.

33:49

I mean, you focus exclusively on this whole.

33:52

Workload management, like in such a unique way that like, okay,

33:56

so we're not being reactive. We're actually being proactive.

33:58

And that works to the point of like, again, staff feel like they're

34:02

cared for, that they're more than just a pair of hands or a strong

34:05

back, that there's somebody that's actually looking out for them and

34:07

their welfare that goes a long ways. Got to your point.

34:10

Like, that's why people come back. I mean, you go to university for a year and you come back and you're in the

34:15

summertime and you go right back to these, a lot of folks go right back to

34:18

their old employers because they know. That they're going to be valued and cared for.

34:23

Yeah, Scot Turner: definitely. And I think you know, two things that you can implement in your business

34:28

tomorrow that is absolutely free and I will guarantee will improve

34:32

the way your people look at you and I'll guarantee that it's in your

34:36

sequence of service for your guests. And that is say hello.

34:40

And say goodbye seems so simple, but I will guarantee your people will look

34:45

at you differently if everyone gets greeted in on the way in and everyone

34:50

gets says goodbye on the way out.

34:52

And I think, you know, sometimes we get, especially in the minute with,

34:56

with tech and things we get all. Or don't we, and how can we buy things or how can we give them benefits,

35:02

pensions, et cetera, et cetera. And don't forget the simple things, because sometimes the simple

35:07

things can be just as impactful. And yeah, I think, I think it's, it's, it's huge, isn't it?

35:14

And it, and it doesn't cost anything as well. You know, great stuff, food it doesn't cost anything.

35:20

So all those types of things are big and can have a big impact

35:25

and can make a difference on. What your people think and how they feel valued as well.

35:31

Some of the best people we've all worked for are the ones who knew

35:34

your name when you were low down the ranks and you couldn't believe

35:37

he remembered what you were called.

35:39

And I think I shared this the last time I was on you know, I, I still remember

35:44

now the GM I had when I was 19 years old, who at nine o'clock and three

35:48

o'clock went around the whole hotel and said hello to every single person.

35:51

And I still remember him now. X amount of years on and you know, it's yeah, don't forget the simple stuff.

35:59

Jim Taylor: Yeah. The example I have like that is, and I share this one, it's still try to, you

36:03

know, emulate this as much as possible. An executive that I worked for for a long time.

36:08

He's been a mentor of mine for years. He used to come into the restaurant.

36:12

I mean, he worked at head office, right? Executive vice president of a massive restaurant group.

36:17

He would come into the restaurant at about six, six, seven

36:20

o'clock every single Friday PM.

36:23

So seven o'clock PM on a Friday. And he's a nine to five schedule type guy.

36:27

Right. And he would walk around the restaurant.

36:30

And he would say hello to customers and he would say hello to every staff member.

36:34

And finally, one day I was like, listen, like funny enough, his name is also Jim.

36:38

But I said, Jim, what, what are you doing?

36:40

Like, is your family not wondering where you are? You should be home for dinner kind of thing right now.

36:44

And I'll never forget his response. He goes, if you think for a second that that office that I sit in all day is

36:50

what this is all about, like you're crazy because the people that are in here

36:55

right now, the customers and the staff are the reason we're in this business.

37:01

So he goes, your aspiration shouldn't be to go sit in an office all day.

37:05

Your aspiration should be to take better care of your employees and your

37:09

customer, because that's why we're here. And I was like, I'm going to just shut up now kind of thing.

37:16

Right. But I've never forgotten that, you know, it's just such a good reminder.

37:20

Adam Lamb: And I just wanted to quickly shout out to Tucker Bascom,

37:23

who's watching us on Facebook. So, Hey, Tucker.

37:26

So glad you could join us today. Another guy who's, you know, using a particular a particular piece of

37:33

technology called seven taps, which is all about micro learning these little cards.

37:37

So he's doing that for his own business. And there's no reason why, you know, We couldn't be doing it.

37:41

Ours. I just wanted to make one other quick point about the whole idea of attraction.

37:48

So as a podcaster, you go through a couple of exercises in order to make sure that

37:53

you're speaking to the right person, that you have the right audience, et cetera.

37:56

And very often that And we have avatars for every single one of our podcasts, you know,

38:07

including a picture and a short form, like a little paragraph about

38:10

where they're at in their life. And I know that some companies employ hiring profiles, but

38:17

hiring profiles are very often around skill sets instead of that.

38:22

So an interesting exercise would be to create an avatar

38:25

for each one of your positions. And to me, the best leaders, the best mentors were the ones who came

38:32

in and, you know, sure, they go and talk to all the line staff, but they

38:35

make a particular point of like going into the prep area or the dish area.

38:40

And not just like across. The dish pit window, but actually going in there into their work

38:45

environments to take time to shake their hand and say, what's up?

38:49

Because to the point, you know, there are most valuable associates

38:52

because we can, we can pick up a lot of slack, but I don't know about you,

38:55

man, but I don't want to get stuck in the dish pit on a Friday night. Right.

38:58

So kind of those unsung heroes to be able to elevate their voices so that

39:03

they feel seen, heard and valued is another incredibly important thing.

39:08

And kind of by osmosis, as we start to use more emotional intelligence in the

39:12

way that not only we're dealing with our emotions, but also the emotions

39:16

of others, that's modeling something for them that they can take away.

39:20

And implement in their own life, whether or not they're actually aware of it or not.

39:23

I mean, some of the best techniques I've ever learned about mirroring

39:26

and having conversations with other people I learned in other environments

39:30

and like, Oh, that's revolutionary.

39:32

I can't believe it. Even though it might feel a little weird at the beginning, but people

39:35

appreciate the fact that you're actually. mirroring back what they're saying.

39:39

So that I listen, I want to make sure that I understand you completely.

39:42

Is this what you're actually saying? Or, or can you straighten me out to your point?

39:45

Scott, the simple things saying hello, saying goodbye, asking about

39:48

their family, how are your kids? Do you have everything you need for today?

39:53

Do you have the tools? Do you have the information? Do you have the time to do it?

39:57

And very often. Yeah. Speaking only of myself.

40:00

I probably didn't ask a lot of those questions earlier in my career

40:02

because I didn't want to give a shit. I had enough on my plate.

40:05

And I, the story I made up for myself was like, yeah, everybody's got their

40:09

own problems, including mine and theirs. And they're just going to have to figure out a way to do it.

40:12

And I never really. Understood that it was my job one to make sure that they had the training,

40:17

the tools, the time to actually succeed because nobody wants to fail.

40:23

Nobody wants to go to work and do a shitty job. Scot Turner: Yeah.

40:26

And I think, you know, because, because of the way the market is at the minute

40:30

and the talent market, I think we've kind of forgotten about how to hire right.

40:35

And we just hire and it's another way to cause turnover, just not

40:40

hiring the right fit for you. And it's I was working with a client the other day and we're, we're

40:47

reopening the restaurant and going through a process of preopening.

40:50

Now, we wrote pillars the other day and our personalities and our

40:55

behaviors, I always put them in the same because for me, they're all the same.

40:59

And we have this restaurant and I think if I remember right, they were charm.

41:04

Playful sophisticated and one of the, so we then had a conversation to the, okay,

41:11

when we're doing social media, we need to make sure that it's playful, but charming,

41:16

there's a sophistication, et cetera. When we're hiring people, let's go out and find people who are, who've

41:23

got that cheeky element to them.

41:25

That can be a little bit playful. They've got the charm with the, with the guest and they're not robots.

41:31

Whereas if we were in a fine dining restaurant that was silver service and

41:34

it was very kind of black tie and all the rest, we shouldn't be going out

41:38

and finding someone who's eccentric. So I think, you know, always go back to what your brand values and brand

41:45

pillars, brand behaviors are, and make sure that the person sat in

41:48

front of you is the person who fits that because just hiring someone

41:52

isn't going to get over the problem.

41:55

It might put the sticky plaster on, but when you both work out that

41:58

you're not the same, ultimately it's going to, it's going to end.

42:02

It's just, it's natural because you're not, you're not the right fit.

42:06

So I think, you know, hiring right. And going back to that, that says, you know, it might take me a bit longer.

42:10

I might have to go understaffed a bit longer, but it's the

42:13

right thing to do helps. And I, I always had a I was used to say to people who work to me sometimes is you

42:20

know, Don't have tough conversations with people because it's better to know that

42:25

you're in the mess and that's the nice way, that's the nice way I referred to it.

42:30

It's better to know you're in the mess than to be put into the mess

42:33

because someone phones in sick or realizes that they don't want to.

42:36

Come in because they're not in the right place.

42:39

You can plan to be short staffed. You can't plan to be short staffed if someone does it within an hour's notice.

42:45

So it's always better to have those difficult conversations or to make

42:49

the difficult decisions because it makes it more sustainable in the

42:53

long run, reduces turnover, increases retention, doesn't have bad apples in

42:57

the team that can make things worse. So, you know, again, if we're talking about how to have great

43:03

retention, how to have great attraction and hire the right people.

43:07

hire the right people. That's, that's going to solve some of the other problems as well.

43:12

And then yeah. Adam Lamb: No, very often it's the right person, but they're in the wrong job.

43:21

So we have to have the guts to be able to say, all right, I'll be

43:24

temporarily discomforted because it might mean I have to take this position

43:29

over or, or shift things around. And now things are a little bit tighter than I want.

43:32

But ultimately, doesn't that person walk away with a much

43:35

greater sense of themselves? And the organization and you as a leader, because.

43:40

You know, typically in that situation, what you move them

43:43

out, you, you make a change and still think like, no, no, no, no.

43:46

They're really great with the guests, but they just happen to be

43:49

wrong for this particular mechanic or this particular skill set.

43:53

And yet they might, they might brilliantly at the host stand.

43:59

But for most of us, we never give them a chance because we're afraid

44:01

of being, like I said, temporarily

44:05

Scot Turner: discomforted. I used to have a HR director who used to say to me when we used to go in

44:09

and have conversations around people. There's a superhero in everyone, but not all superheroes are the same.

44:15

It Adam Lamb: sums it up well, right?

44:18

Yeah, no doubt. Jim Taylor: Well, and there's so much in this discussion, right?

44:24

We might need to have you on a fourth time here.

44:26

I mean, this is just, we could keep going about this stuff all day.

44:33

Adam Lamb: The thing that I'm present to you right now, Scott is like,

44:35

it's been a, it's been a while since you and I connected offline and

44:38

I'm spending this time with you. I just, I walk away with such an appreciation for your deep knowledge

44:45

empathy the way you go about things.

44:48

And I'm thinking to myself, yeah, I got to call you more often, man,

44:54

Scot Turner: from what I understand from my age. Fourth time is a, is a trick to do it face to face.

44:58

Right. So, Adam Lamb: all right.

45:00

Well, I guess I better start saving up for a ticket. Jim Taylor: Well, three, three different countries.

45:04

If you find a way to do that, Adam Lamb: there's gotta be still like, well, maybe we have to just

45:08

meet in Gibraltar or someplace like, Jim Taylor: thanks so much for joining us, Scott, it's just always so good

45:16

to connect and, and I agree with Adam, I mean, your insight and knowledge in

45:19

the industry and, you know, it's not just Adam that should call you more.

45:22

I think everybody Adam Lamb: should. Yeah. Yeah.

45:25

And so thank you very much, Scott.

45:27

Thanks to everybody, everybody for showing up, having your voice heard or making

45:31

your voice heard and for taking the time to like, share and follow the show.

45:37

As always, my name is Adam Lam with my cohost, Jim Taylor, Scott

45:41

Turner of Auden Hospitality. Brother, such a great thing.

45:43

Thank you very much for joining us. Scot Turner: Pleasure.

45:46

Thank you very much. Have a great day, everyone. Adam Lamb: Thanks for joining us on this episode of Turning the Table

45:54

with me, Adam Lamb, and Jim Taylor.

45:56

We're on a mission to change the food and beverage industry for the better

45:59

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