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linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. Get

1:01

started at linkedin.com/results.

1:04

Terms and conditions

1:07

apply. I am unashamed. What

1:09

about you? We got quite the

1:11

flip from the last time that

1:13

we came to on the podcast

1:15

because we were all together in

1:17

one place. They were getting the

1:19

ban back together. We had Jill as

1:21

our as in the hole for the

1:24

for a few podcasts and

1:26

now we're all in our

1:28

separate places. Yeah, there was

1:30

an palatable energy in the

1:32

room. We got on this

1:34

morning and Maddie said, why

1:36

is everybody so quiet? I'm

1:38

still coming down off of

1:40

whatever that was. I crashed,

1:42

man. It was like an

1:44

explosion of neurotransmitter activity. I

1:46

was like, wire. And then

1:48

I got home, I just,

1:50

guys, I just crashed. This

1:52

is what happens when you

1:55

marry a feisty young woman.

1:57

It makes you mutter to

1:59

yourself. You married a feisty young

2:01

woman as well. That's what people

2:04

say. We did not marry weak

2:06

women. That's for sure. No, we

2:08

did not. But it makes us

2:10

stronger. It does. I had all

2:13

my kids coming down this weekend

2:15

though. They all came up. Layla

2:17

Max played a show here in

2:19

Black Mountain. And so we had

2:22

Max Layla. Of course, the three

2:24

that still live with me. Layla's

2:26

husband Dawson. and the band came

2:28

in with them. So our house

2:30

was like just overflowing with people

2:33

and which is good because I

2:35

got a little look into pop

2:37

culture that I didn't know existed

2:39

this weekend. There's a you guys

2:42

know what chicken jockey is. You

2:44

ever heard of that? Chicken jockey

2:46

jockey. Chicken Jackie. I've never heard

2:48

those two words put together. It

2:50

would have to be really small

2:53

because if you were going to

2:55

be a jockey on a chicken,

2:57

you would have to be very

2:59

tiny. What is the origin of

3:02

the word? Are there any? I'm

3:04

not an expert in this and

3:06

what I'm going to tell you.

3:08

I got a kind of a

3:10

30,000 foot overview of the chicken

3:13

jockey. I'm probably even saying it

3:15

wrong, but it's a pop culture

3:17

reference. Let me ask you another

3:19

question. Have you ever heard of

3:22

something called Minecraft? I think it's

3:24

called Minecraft. It's like a video

3:26

game. Minecraft? They got heard of

3:28

that? My grandkids have played it

3:30

because there's a movie that has

3:33

come out that is apparently has

3:35

done quite well. I know that.

3:37

And my grandkids went and saw

3:39

it and loved it. Is that

3:42

the cube with the different colors

3:44

than you? And you... I think

3:46

that's Rubis. A Rubis. It is,

3:48

I think it is like blocks

3:50

or cubes or I really don't,

3:53

I'm not, I'm fundamentally against video

3:55

games. What's funny is there's a

3:57

big chunk of our audience right

3:59

now is laughing so hard at

4:02

our ignorance. Because they know what

4:04

we're talking about. Because they know

4:06

exactly what we're talking about. This

4:08

is what's happening. I mean, my

4:10

kids are showing me this. And

4:13

I was like, this is absolutely

4:15

insane. So these kids, mostly like

4:17

teenage boys, they get all their

4:19

friends and they go watch the

4:22

movie Minecraft. And it's got Jack

4:24

Black in it. It's got some

4:26

other things. Oh yeah, the guy,

4:28

the aquaman, that guy. Aquaman's in

4:30

it. And so there's a scene

4:33

in the movie. That's what Maddie

4:35

said. So here's what they're doing.

4:37

He kind of looks like a

4:39

beefed up Jeff to me. He

4:42

does kind of like old Jeff

4:44

Jeff. Yeah, he does. So they

4:46

show up at the movie and

4:48

all the kids show up and

4:50

there's a certain scene and this

4:53

is happening all across the country

4:55

apparently in all the movie theaters

4:57

that's happening. They sneak a live

4:59

chicken. And then there's a moment

5:02

in the movie where I think

5:04

Jack Black's character says chicken jockey.

5:06

And when he says that, the

5:08

kid, I mean, the whole, like

5:10

theater, they throw their drinks, their

5:13

popcorn. I mean, it's just like

5:15

a celebration. I mean, it's like

5:17

literally they're throwing a big 32

5:19

ounce diet coaxes in the air

5:22

and popcorn and somebody will stand

5:24

up with a shit. They're holding

5:26

a live chicken. And then they,

5:28

and then they, and then they,

5:30

they basically get kicked out of

5:33

the theater. And I don't, I

5:35

don't even, I feel like we

5:37

need to back up. I'm just

5:39

saying, I think there's some social

5:42

commentary. Did they turn the chicken

5:44

loose? No. Yeah, I think they

5:46

turn the chicken loose, but I

5:48

just watching it and I'm thinking,

5:50

like, what, what is the, where

5:53

is the state? of young men

5:55

in this country. I'm just looking

5:57

at this, I'm thinking this has

5:59

got to be, I mean, what

6:02

is, I don't know what it

6:04

is. I feel like the culture.

6:06

maybe leaving me behind. I think

6:08

you skipped over the snaking a

6:10

chicken in a movie theater. That

6:13

was that possible. I mean in

6:15

our movie place they have you

6:17

go through one little section I

6:19

mean it's like going through airport

6:22

security. Oh they're getting the chicken

6:24

in there though I'm telling you.

6:26

I don't know. You just Google

6:28

chicken jockey. No, I don't do

6:30

go anything except Bible verses or

6:33

the weather or some scores. No,

6:35

I don't do that. So. So.

6:37

Yeah, that's a viral. Didn't there

6:39

used to be a movies that

6:42

years ago? They was interactive with

6:44

fans and it was real popular

6:46

for like 30 years. Oh, that

6:48

was the, yeah, the way they

6:50

did this sort of thing. Yeah,

6:53

they did. Rocky horror picture show.

6:55

Yeah, which they played for years.

6:57

I mean, years and years after

6:59

it would, they would have shows

7:02

at midnight and everybody would show

7:04

up in character. It would be

7:06

like a cult type movie. But

7:08

I guess it. I guess it

7:10

wasn't like destroying things. I think

7:13

the theaters are like you're vandalizing

7:15

our theaters. Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna.

7:17

These are as if there's not

7:19

enough sticky things on the floor

7:22

when I go into the movie

7:24

that I need somebody dumping all

7:26

their drinks out on. Pop great.

7:28

This is why these are two

7:30

illustrations of why the world is

7:33

Jesus. That's what I said. Which

7:35

that was my take on watching

7:37

the masterss yesterday. If that were

7:39

your days, he would say, that's

7:42

why I don't go to theaters.

7:44

That's why I don't see movies.

7:46

It's a good, the Masters was

7:48

also, I don't know what happened

7:50

there, but that's all over Twitter,

7:53

all over, so that's another viral

7:55

moment that I missed out on

7:57

that one. So you're calling these

7:59

viral moments, which I looked up

8:02

virus while you were talking. And

8:04

yeah, it's nothing good. It's all,

8:06

it came from an infectious, yeah,

8:08

it's like. It's a corruptor. that

8:10

is contagious and infectious. At the

8:13

end of a viral moment you

8:15

have a virus. That's the problem.

8:17

You had the virus that means

8:19

you're mortal and probably will die

8:22

sooner than you thought. So what

8:24

happened was you got a guy

8:26

who had if you're not a

8:28

golfer you're like well I mean

8:30

it's hard for me to describe

8:33

what I mean I hate I

8:35

kept wanting to get up and

8:37

leave because I thought this is

8:39

pathetic. Because at the end of

8:42

the day, it's grown men with

8:44

metal clubs trying to hit a

8:46

round object in a hole in

8:48

the ground in lesser swings than

8:50

their competitors. You know, that's definitely

8:53

not a big venture. If you

8:55

think about what the actual game

8:57

is. But they have so much

8:59

pageantry and tradition of this place

9:02

in Georgia. And they make it

9:04

so dramatized. And you know, you

9:06

have the meals and it's a

9:08

club and it's an inclusive thing.

9:10

And you've arrived, you know, in

9:13

competition if you win this. Well,

9:15

here's this Roy Macroy, who's from

9:17

Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland. He won

9:19

all the other legs. of what

9:22

they call the Grand Slam, which

9:24

is you have, they used to

9:26

call it the British Open. I

9:28

think it's just called the Open.

9:30

It's done somewhere in Europe. Then

9:33

you have the US Open, and

9:35

then you have the PGA. Which,

9:37

by the way, Jay, is the

9:39

three majors you mentioned are played

9:42

at different famous courses around America,

9:44

Europe. and the other one in

9:46

America too. And the Masters is

9:48

the only major that's played on

9:50

the same course every year. This

9:53

to your point about this being

9:55

sort of a magical place. And

9:57

you get a green jacket which

9:59

could go by, but you have

10:01

to win it, you know, because

10:04

you're in this. So this this

10:06

guy, Roy, you know, burst on

10:08

the scene over a decade ago,

10:10

wins the other three. And I

10:12

think he's won a couple of

10:14

them a couple times. And,

10:16

uh, but he didn't have this.

10:18

He didn't have the Masters.

10:21

And he's obviously very good

10:23

at golf. And so I

10:25

watched the Masters this week. He

10:27

hit the ball further. overall

10:30

straight, he hit the ball further,

10:32

higher, could shape the shots because

10:34

now they got this technology that

10:36

shows, you know, he'll hit it

10:38

right, then he'll hit it left.

10:40

You know, most of them just

10:42

have one shot and they just

10:44

go with it. And so, but he

10:47

kept having these like brain

10:49

cramps and they kept just

10:51

doing things that you could tell

10:53

were totally mental. So he

10:55

had two double bogeys on the

10:58

first day. which, you know, because he

11:00

looked like he was headed off to

11:02

win it, but then he just, and

11:04

it's like he chipped the ball in

11:06

the water. It was like something

11:08

a novice golfer would do. Something

11:11

I would do. Yeah, what are you

11:13

doing? Well, he comes back, takes in

11:15

the third round and is winning by

11:17

what four going into the final. I

11:19

think he was at three or two

11:21

or three. Yeah. And all of a

11:23

sudden, you know, a series of events,

11:25

it's some masters, you know, things happen,

11:28

they're jocke him, but then he just

11:30

looks like he can't be beat. He

11:32

gets to like 14 under all his

11:34

playing partners. Everybody else is falling back.

11:36

Okay, it's over. He's laying up on

11:38

holes where he's usually, he could obviously

11:41

hit. So he gets to 13 and

11:43

he has like a little simple shot

11:45

80 yards. He's laid up. And he's

11:47

aiming like 40 yards, you know, to the

11:50

left just to be safe and he basically

11:52

shanks it in the water. Yeah. Makes double

11:54

and all of a sudden you start

11:56

seeing him mentally, this guy's like

11:58

having a mental breakdown. I

12:03

learned that one of the keys

12:05

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12:07

and meal planning. Yeah, I never

12:09

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12:15

you got to make sure you

12:17

get the right ingredients and everything

12:19

there and sometimes that's hard to

12:21

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12:23

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dessert. Then he pulls back and

13:46

they're telling stories about when he

13:48

was seven and nine saying federal

13:50

work. Yeah when he's four started

13:52

playing golf at four and then

13:54

they were so poor that his

13:57

dad took him to the driving

13:59

range but he only had one

14:01

token. for balls. And so he

14:03

said, you hit every shot like

14:05

you're playing in the Masters. I

14:07

mean, they're telling this at nine

14:09

years of creating all this drama.

14:11

So then all of a sudden

14:13

he hits the most incredible shot

14:15

you've ever seen on 15. He

14:17

can make an eagle and go

14:19

back up, you know, and they're

14:21

all now saying he's overcome. It's

14:23

the shot of a lifetime. Well,

14:25

then he misses the five foot

14:27

put for eagle. It's like, what

14:29

just happened here? Well, oh, but

14:31

he's still up by one, you

14:33

know. Then he bogies. Oh, he

14:35

goes back. Then he's losing. Then

14:37

he's losing the tournament. Like with

14:39

a couple of holes left. Hits

14:41

another incredible shot. Makes a little

14:43

birdie putts. You're like, okay, now

14:45

he's a one. I always got

14:47

this make a part of win

14:49

the last one. But they're like,

14:51

oh, will he be nervous? And

14:53

he gets up on 18 and

14:55

hits the longest drive of the

14:58

term. It's like 370 yards right

15:00

down the middle. He has a

15:02

little wedge that he's practiced, you

15:04

know, a million times. 125 yards.

15:06

Everybody's now, okay, we can go

15:08

on with it. Shanks it in

15:10

the bunker. Just cold cocks it

15:12

over. It was so far off.

15:14

He's falling to his knees. Like,

15:16

well, it's not over yet. Now,

15:18

all you gotta do is get

15:20

up and down. And as it

15:22

turned out, it left a simple

15:24

bunker shot that they said, he'll

15:26

get this up up and down

15:28

nine out of 10 times. So

15:30

he hits the bunker shot up

15:32

to three or four feet. So

15:34

now he has a putt to

15:36

win the Masters. What does he

15:38

do? You could tell he wasn't

15:40

thinking he was going to make

15:42

it. He just immediately dropped his

15:44

head. Well now he's tired. We

15:46

got to go to a playoff.

15:48

I'm like, you have got to

15:50

be kidding me. This guy is

15:52

literally, he just will not let

15:54

himself win, even though he has,

15:56

he's the most talented golfer this

15:59

week. And I was telling. I

16:01

was like, he will not win.

16:03

I was, because once he's, I

16:05

thought the same thing. And then

16:07

his, so then his buddies got

16:09

to play in a play out,

16:11

he just stripes it down the

16:13

middle. I'm like, oh, that Rory,

16:15

you're fixed to witness this guy,

16:17

just completely fall apart because he

16:19

has blown it. He's incapable mentally

16:21

a win. Nope, he stripes it

16:23

down the middle, the same drive.

16:25

Exactly. He had the same yardage.

16:27

He hits it three hundred, same

16:29

yard down the middle. Well the

16:31

other guy almost holds it. I

16:33

mean hits two inches from the

16:35

pen on his approach. Has about

16:37

a, what, 10 or 12 footer?

16:39

Not a 12 footer. And so

16:41

Roy... Kind of a time lucky

16:43

that it wasn't closer. Has the

16:45

same shot. Well this time he

16:47

gets the perfect shot. It trickles

16:49

down there to three feet again.

16:51

This playing partner misses the put.

16:53

It was a tough put, but

16:55

he hit a good put, you

16:58

know. He can't fall to him.

17:00

He almost made his approach. And

17:02

he almost made his approach. I

17:04

didn't know. So he makes it

17:06

and look, the man loses it

17:08

when it goes in. So I

17:10

thought, oh, okay, all the pressure,

17:12

he's burst into tears, he falls

17:14

to his knees, just prostrate, just

17:16

his player and partner is like,

17:18

hey man, you won. He's trying

17:20

to shake his hand. Oh no,

17:22

this guy has lost it. Well

17:24

look, Zach, he never recovered. This

17:26

went, it turned into a soap

17:28

opera. I would say a 10

17:30

minute meltdown. Have you ever seen

17:32

anybody take that long to get

17:34

from the green to where he's

17:36

supposed to go to like wrap

17:38

it up? Look, I mean, it

17:40

is. He's hugging people in the

17:42

crowd. Complete just meltdown uncomfortably. Just

17:44

like he's hugging people. He's just,

17:46

I thought, what's happening here? What

17:48

is happening and why am I

17:50

still watching this? It's over. You

17:52

won. At some point, and finally

17:54

I guess after 10 or 15

17:56

minutes, he said, hey, let me

17:59

go get my green jacket. So

18:01

then it made everybody at least

18:03

be able to breathe. He finally

18:05

has realized you won. You should

18:07

have won three hours ago. I

18:09

don't know. It was a... What

18:11

was the controversy? It seems to

18:13

be like there was no controversy

18:15

other than there was like some

18:17

kind of weird view into the

18:19

human mind and the only thing

18:21

I could think of was this

18:23

guy was so consumed with what

18:25

other people thought he needed this

18:27

to become one of the, you

18:29

know, the great. Yeah, he had

18:31

to have this leg. There was

18:33

only what five or six people

18:35

that have won all of them.

18:37

He's the six man. He's the

18:39

sixth man in the history of

18:41

the planet. And everybody else, the

18:43

other five, three of the other

18:45

five did it on their first

18:47

try and the other two on

18:49

their third. It took him 11

18:51

years to win this. So obviously

18:53

he had been holding on for

18:55

a long time. And it just,

18:57

and someone on X said, this

19:00

looks like the agony of relief.

19:02

I thought that was a pretty

19:04

good way. Because he was agonizing.

19:06

So much. It was the agony

19:08

of relief, that's what they got.

19:10

But it made me think, you

19:12

know, it wasn't, it was a

19:14

belief, he's more talented, you know,

19:16

in short. They're all great golfers

19:18

all that but he just that's

19:20

why I said he hits it

19:22

further hits it higher he has

19:24

a special he better now now

19:26

that the monkeys's office I don't

19:28

know what is there to do

19:30

now he doesn't you know what

19:32

did matter anymore you win it

19:34

again does it really matter I

19:36

mean the guys got hundreds of

19:38

dollars. But Jay's is right because

19:40

normally I mean I watch the

19:42

Masters every year and there's always

19:44

like some surprise person that's never

19:46

won and or like Scotty Shefler

19:48

who's a great golfer who finally

19:50

like won the Masters like three

19:52

or four years ago and you're

19:54

always like I I'm always emotional,

19:56

you know, when they did. Tiger

19:59

won it after being hurt, you

20:01

know, a few years ago, and

20:03

I always respond emotionally, but I

20:05

did not about, I was just

20:07

like Jay's. I felt just almost

20:09

bad for him, like, I couldn't,

20:11

like, in, typically on something like

20:13

that, but it was almost just

20:15

like they built it up too

20:17

much. Oh, it did. That's what

20:19

I'm saying. It's story number three,

20:21

viral moment number three on why

20:23

you need Jesus. It really is.

20:25

You guys remember that Tom Brady

20:27

interview who he's won more Super

20:29

Bowls and probably maybe anybody I

20:31

mean the guy's like anybody at

20:33

any quarterback for sure. Yeah I

20:35

mean he's just a I mean

20:37

he's the greatest quarterbacks in history

20:39

and he was being interviewed on

20:41

60 minutes he's like yeah what

20:43

do you think that you won

20:45

all this you've got all the

20:47

accolades you're the goat you're the

20:49

greatest of all time and he

20:51

said there's got to be more

20:53

than this. He said that after

20:55

he had accomplished everything he accomplished

20:57

he he sat in that and

21:00

sat in that accomplishment and thought

21:02

there's got to be more than

21:04

this. Not that the other. I

21:06

mean it matters it's something we

21:08

could compete have fun when stuff

21:10

creates stuff but yeah it can

21:12

it can crush that weight can

21:14

crush a man. Oh I know.

21:16

Well look it started off the

21:18

the gym now said the tournament

21:20

started this is what lured me

21:22

in because I wish I hadn't

21:24

watched it. Because it was riveting

21:26

drama that if anybody's played golf

21:28

and look even that I went

21:30

out I played golf twice in

21:32

a year After it was all

21:34

over I grabbed the bag and

21:36

went over to Willis and started

21:38

chippings and balls You know what

21:40

I thought because I thought I

21:42

have the holy spirit of God

21:44

in me This guy He was

21:46

having such a battle with his

21:48

spirit within him, it was based

21:50

nothing on the shots. It was

21:52

literally a mental, you're watching a

21:54

mental breakdown shot by shot. And

21:56

then talent wins out, then the

21:58

mental breakdown. It was just one

22:01

of the most awful things. I've

22:03

ever watched in my life, you

22:05

know, but I'm not, I'm like,

22:07

well, I got the Holy Spirit

22:09

of God. What, what, what am

22:11

I worried about? I go out

22:13

there and break par just without

22:15

alone in my mind. I gotta

22:17

need to get my mind, right?

22:19

I mean, Jesus had the greatest

22:21

comeback ever. His body came out

22:23

of the ground. These guys are

22:25

all worked up about putting a

22:27

little round, what is, I don't

22:29

even know what golf balls are

22:31

made up. But they're just trying

22:33

to put it in the ground.

22:35

You know, the contrast of what

22:37

you're doing as far as life

22:39

could not be greater as far

22:41

as the chasm. And so I'm

22:43

like, yeah, I think I need

22:45

to work on my golf game

22:47

mentally. I mean, because I'm, you

22:49

know, I know enough about golf

22:51

to know that what am I

22:53

nervous about? Well, it's also, Jay's,

22:55

it reminded me how susceptible we

22:57

all are to manipulation of media.

23:00

Because they had been, and I

23:02

didn't even watch the first three

23:04

rounds, so somebody that watched all

23:06

four rounds, I can't imagine how

23:08

they were feeling at the end

23:10

of it. I just watched the

23:12

last day yesterday, and I just

23:14

realized you can be hyped up

23:16

into something just because people keep,

23:18

because they kept having Nicholas on

23:20

there in between commercials and stuff.

23:22

It's all about creating drama. So

23:24

I forgot what I was going

23:26

to say, but when Nelson, they

23:28

started the teleagat. Telekast, it was

23:30

like, this place, you know, and

23:32

they were showing all the views

23:34

in the flower, it is beautiful,

23:36

I've been there twice. Me too.

23:38

It's, it's stunning. But that's, what

23:40

is that? That's God's creation. Yeah.

23:42

They just have a lot of

23:44

money to make it look really

23:46

good. But he said this place

23:48

has had moments where time stood

23:50

still. Not true. Last

23:54

time I came in town I

23:56

stayed at a hotel. Typically I

23:59

stayed at... househouse because you are

24:01

the best host. I don't know

24:03

why I didn't last time, but

24:05

I tell you I didn't sleep

24:07

good last time. Yeah. But last

24:10

night, I was the best night's

24:12

sleep. I'd have to come out

24:14

of that horrible motel six experience.

24:16

I slept at your house. I

24:18

know the sleep's always going to

24:21

be good because you guys only

24:23

have helix mattresses. That's right. We

24:25

sleep on helix ourselves, adjacent Missy-do

24:27

as well. Now we all took

24:29

our super simple helix sleep quiz

24:31

when we bought our mattresses. Zach,

24:34

you were the midnight Lux. Which

24:36

works because for me it's not

24:38

too firm, it's not too soft

24:40

and was perfect for us because

24:42

we're side sleepers. Right. We were

24:45

the moonlight because we like it

24:47

somewhere in the middle. But we

24:49

love helix, all of us do.

24:51

We've had a great experience with

24:53

these guys. One of the reasons

24:56

we love it so much is

24:58

that, Mitch, is we travel so

25:00

much. And so when you're on

25:02

the road, you really miss sleeping

25:04

at home when you have a

25:07

fantastic mattress. So we've had our

25:09

helix mattress for about five years.

25:11

It's the best sleep we've ever

25:13

had. You're also able to track

25:15

how much your sleep has improved

25:17

with your sleep has improved with

25:20

your sleep tracker. when I'm on

25:22

the road. So you guys want

25:24

to check this out. Here's what

25:26

you do. You go to helixsleep.com/unashamed

25:28

for 20% off-sitewide. That's helixsleep.com/unashamed for

25:31

20% off-sitewide. helixsleep.com/unashamed. Did he just

25:33

say that you're going Jesus I

25:35

am? on what the so that's

25:37

what they're doing is creating that

25:39

aura of and now in his

25:42

mind he's like I'm now one

25:44

of the greatest they call it's

25:46

a Mount Rushmore of golf he

25:48

has won all the majors so

25:50

they have six faces now instead

25:52

of the four you know went

25:55

to five days. We only have

25:57

one master and it's not a

25:59

green jacket. It's like when you

26:01

try to do a TV show

26:03

you take it to like network

26:06

executives they always say the same

26:08

two things. One they say it

26:10

or they'll say it's they're complaining

26:12

on it they'll say it's too

26:14

earnest. I've heard that like a

26:17

million times just too earnest it

26:19

which means we need more drama.

26:21

And then the other one is,

26:23

what are the stakes? We got

26:25

to have high stakes. But again,

26:28

it's like building out that, you

26:30

got to, yeah, the media companies,

26:32

they want to build out with

26:34

the, like a cliff that you're

26:36

kind of right to the edge

26:38

of, and if you, you're going

26:41

to like win a million dollars

26:43

or you're going to die. That's

26:45

your two options. That's a good

26:47

TV show. You know, I mean.

26:49

Well, I'll tell you know what,

26:52

you know, it's weird. You know

26:54

what's weird. You know what's weird.

26:56

Is that weird. Is that weird.

26:58

Is that weird. the chosen on

27:00

Friday night. So I'd watch the

27:03

Masters for a couple days, bits

27:05

and pieces, and then watch it

27:07

on the weekend. And so you

27:09

basically in my world, like the

27:11

Masters are dropped because I'm a

27:13

golfer, that's as good of dramatic

27:16

television as you're ever going to

27:18

get. Even if you weren't a

27:20

golfer, you're seeing this guy. I

27:22

mean, he just leases it and

27:24

all the stories in Northern Ireland

27:27

and eight years old. And, but

27:29

the same, I had the same.

27:31

as far as drama, to a

27:33

even greater degree, watching that third

27:35

leg, because it takes you right

27:38

up to Jesus's, you know, before

27:40

the cross. Yeah. I won't give

27:42

you all the details, spoiler alert,

27:44

but it's, so that's where season

27:46

five goes. It's the Passion Week.

27:49

And man, I'm telling you, it

27:51

was just... It was it was

27:53

one of the most dramatic things

27:55

I've ever watched In a good

27:57

way, you know, it's kind of

27:59

interesting because you've been, I mean,

28:02

think about that story, what the

28:04

chosen has done is you've connected

28:06

with, it's kind of hard to

28:08

say this, but you've connected with

28:10

these characters who are playing, you

28:13

know, the people, you know, they're

28:15

playing Jesus, so it puts it

28:17

in such a real way, because

28:19

typically if you have a movie

28:21

about the, you know, the death

28:24

of Christ, the passion of Christ,

28:26

I mean, you have two hours

28:28

and Mel Gibson's maybe. to connect

28:30

with the character that played Christ,

28:32

which was Jim Gavizel. You've been,

28:35

you guys, I mean, if you're

28:37

a chosen fan, you've been watching

28:39

the chosen for several years now.

28:41

I haven't seen this episode, but

28:43

I, well, it's three episodes in

28:45

one at the movies. So, yeah,

28:48

but, well, I think, you know,

28:50

when you read this, the book,

28:52

you know, we have the Bible

28:54

and you read it. There's something

28:56

about. seeing it in

28:58

picture form that when Missy and

29:01

I was talking about this in

29:03

really in-depth conversation because it's basically

29:05

what you do when you read

29:08

it you try to you know

29:10

just visualize like we're we're in

29:12

John 6 and we're reading this

29:14

well I visualize oh there was

29:17

this place you know with the

29:19

real gracy and like you had

29:21

the baskets and But it's something

29:23

that we do when we read

29:26

it. So when you're seeing it,

29:28

you're just looking at a director

29:30

along with, I'm sure they have

29:33

a little small group of people.

29:35

Because the Bible's so controversial as

29:37

far as we can agree on

29:39

like all the components around it.

29:42

And so you're looking at these

29:44

guys like, you know, they had

29:46

a bunch of meetings and they're

29:49

like on how we're going to

29:51

film this. So you're looking at

29:53

their imagination. and their understanding of

29:55

reading scripture and trying to pull

29:58

this off, it just becomes. just

30:01

dramatic to me. I'm like, what,

30:04

how are they going to do

30:06

this? Because you get so many

30:08

different takes, even on somebody like

30:11

Judas, which was a feature part

30:13

of that, which is, we have

30:16

the beginning of that of where

30:18

we're at in John Six, and

30:20

I think seven, Judas is brought

30:23

up about the first time that

30:25

he would betray Jesus. I think

30:27

that's in seven. It's actually at

30:30

the end of six, six, seventy,

30:32

and seventy. Yeah, that's, that's where

30:35

we, that's where we're getting, yeah,

30:37

good, good call. Six seventy one.

30:39

He meant Judas, the son of

30:42

Simon, Ascariot, who, though one of

30:44

the twelve was later to betray

30:47

him. Yeah, and then just this,

30:49

in just a couple days, Jay's,

30:51

we're gonna be on a liturgical

30:54

calendar. We're actually gonna be in

30:56

what's called spy Wednesday, which is

30:59

the day that. Judas betrayed Christ

31:01

during the last week of Christ's

31:03

life. Do I need to look

31:06

up liturgical? Think of it this

31:08

way. It's more of like the

31:11

high church, you know, liturgy, liturgy

31:13

just means rhythm, habit. How do

31:15

you spell that? Liturgy or liturgical?

31:18

Yeah. L-I-T-L-I-T-U-R-G- I see a L

31:20

a turgical can we just learn

31:23

something today by the hands of

31:25

that I thought you were gonna

31:27

cricket button but uh meaning public

31:30

ritual. Public ritual. I couldn't find

31:32

my cricket button but uh meaning.

31:35

Public ritual. of worship performed by

31:37

a religious group? Yes, like your

31:39

higher church, like your Catholics, your

31:42

Episcopal, your Lutherans. I didn't know

31:44

what you meant by higher church.

31:47

I thought Jesus built the church,

31:49

it's his. But I mean, like,

31:51

we're... We're non-denominational, so we, I

31:54

mean, we don't have like a,

31:56

you know, there's no like border

31:58

directors, there's no Pope, there's no,

32:01

like organizational structure that oversees the

32:03

local congregation. Which is why, Jay,

32:06

which is why you said earlier,

32:08

you made the statement earlier about

32:10

the controversial nature of scripture and

32:13

why it's so hard to recreate

32:15

things we can watch because of

32:18

all these. thousands of years, hundreds

32:20

of years for some groups. Yeah.

32:22

Of everything they view about the

32:25

Bible. That was my point. Yeah.

32:27

And each group has their own

32:30

thing that, well, you can't show

32:32

this or you can. That's not

32:34

the way this is supposed to

32:37

be. Well, John, maybe that's why

32:39

we came here. Maybe it's the

32:42

Holy Spirit. Because John Six, where

32:44

we're at, there's so many arguments

32:46

that come out of this chapter.

32:49

Yeah, I mean, I just just

32:51

off the top of my head.

32:54

Where did he say the work

32:56

of God is this to believe

32:58

in the one he has said?

33:01

That was back in 29. 629.

33:03

Well, so then you had this,

33:06

well, James said in chapter two,

33:08

I believe, that even that works

33:10

as dead. But before that he

33:13

said even the demons believe or

33:15

maybe set out after that. It's

33:18

like, you gotta have actions. They're

33:20

like, well, did James miss the

33:22

memo that the work of God

33:25

is this to believe? So, so

33:27

you've had this debate for years.

33:29

You know, is it faith alone?

33:32

I mean, what about James? Why

33:34

did he say that? And so,

33:37

so not even get... Is it

33:39

works? Do your work save you

33:41

or does your faith save you?

33:44

Well, right. That is the argument.

33:46

And so then that's one. We're

33:49

not solving the arguments today, but...

33:52

I mean, what I'm saying is,

33:54

the more I read this, I

33:56

think we're just looking at it

33:58

through one veil. All these arguments,

34:00

one vein, which leads to a

34:02

lot of arguments. And the one

34:04

vein is kind of, is my

34:06

ticket punch or not? Just, you

34:08

know, what side of this, am

34:10

I going to be it? Just

34:12

make sure I get in. And

34:14

that's kind of what all the

34:17

arguments are about. What must I

34:19

do to get to heaven and

34:21

not go to hell? Which is

34:23

the problem. And it's a misreading

34:25

of John 6 for sure. Because

34:27

if you say that. Well, that's

34:29

kind of where I was getting

34:31

at. I don't think his point

34:33

was to bring up all these

34:35

arguments for these two groups. No

34:37

matter what. I think the point

34:39

of John, the overarching point of

34:41

John 6 from my perspective is

34:43

not how do you get into

34:45

heaven? It's more how does God

34:48

get heaven into you? Yeah. It's

34:50

a flipping of the script. But

34:52

you say that, Zach, and I

34:54

agree with that wholeheartedly, which is

34:56

what John Six is about. But

34:58

I think a lot of people

35:00

out there, when they hear that,

35:02

they're like, what does that mean?

35:04

And, you know, I think I

35:06

have a thought on that on

35:08

what it means that we'll reveal

35:10

as we read this, but I

35:12

do think it keeps you away

35:14

from arguments that I really feel

35:16

like are just a waste of

35:19

time. I don't think that was

35:21

the point at all, but I'll

35:23

give you the next one. I'm

35:25

doing this all the top of

35:27

my head. The Judas, that was

35:29

another when I was going to

35:31

bring up, because he's brought up

35:33

here. It's like, well, why did

35:35

Jesus say here in the middle

35:37

of John 6 that God's will

35:39

was for him not to lose

35:41

any that he had given him?

35:43

That's in, uh, 20, no, in

35:45

39, 639. This is the will.

35:47

of him who sent me that

35:50

I shall lose none of all

35:52

that he has given me but

35:54

raised them up at the last

35:56

day. And you're like, well didn't

35:58

you lose one? You know. In

36:00

Judas and so so then here

36:03

comes an argument like well, he

36:05

was never in or God Had

36:07

already planned for him to do

36:09

that, you know, and so then

36:12

you get into the other argument

36:14

is he never had a real

36:16

choice Yeah, he never had which

36:18

is the other argument in this

36:21

passage is where I thought this

36:23

was fascinating Because this is the

36:25

only time here in John 6

36:27

and John 12 this phrases uses

36:30

that that is used where it

36:32

says the father draws people, that's

36:34

in 44, 644, stop grumbling among

36:36

yourselves, Jesus answered, no one can

36:39

come to me unless the father

36:41

who sent me draws him. So

36:43

then you get into another argument,

36:45

which is really, how would you

36:47

sum that argument up? The predestination

36:50

versus... predestination of individuals versus the

36:52

free will choice or how that

36:54

works or yeah I don't like

36:56

to frame it that way because

36:59

well I'm just trying to frame

37:01

the yeah I would say that

37:03

it's more it depends on what

37:05

circle you're in if you ask

37:08

do you believe in predestination your

37:10

answer should always be yes because

37:12

it's in the Bible thank you

37:14

so you got to raise the

37:17

like yes we believe in predestination

37:19

the question I think the real

37:21

debate is what this predestination mean.

37:23

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38:54

well what or what did he

38:56

mean by how how does the

38:59

father draw you now? He there's

39:01

a there's a terrible translation In

39:03

this same chapter and you say

39:06

well, Jason, are you a some

39:08

kind of Greek scholar? No, but

39:10

what I mean by terrible translation.

39:13

There's a verse in the NIV

39:15

says no one can come unless

39:17

the father enabled that's in verse

39:20

65 I'll read that. For Jesus

39:22

in 64, he says, yet there

39:24

are some of you who do

39:26

not believe, for Jesus had known

39:29

from the beginning which of them

39:31

did not believe and would betray

39:33

him, which were back to the

39:36

Judas argument. He went on to

39:38

say, this is why I told

39:40

you that no one can come

39:43

to me unless the Father has

39:45

enabled him, the NIV says, but

39:47

the word is the same word.

39:50

as give that is mentioned multiple

39:52

times in the chapter. I was

39:54

shocked when I looked it up.

39:56

It's just so to give you

39:59

that verse. Where it

40:01

says what I read earlier in

40:03

verse 39 and this is the

40:05

will of him who sent me

40:07

that I shall lose none of

40:10

them that he has Given me

40:12

well that say the word given.

40:14

Yeah, it's the exact Greek word

40:16

where it says unless the father

40:19

That's why some most translation says

40:21

grants him or gives him You

40:23

see yeah, so that I think

40:25

those are the base and did

40:28

I cover them out of these

40:30

passages? Well, you've also got the

40:32

big one on the the idea

40:34

of the Eucharist. Oh, yeah, that's

40:36

a huge controversy. They've talked to

40:39

Catholic or Lutheran. They would, they

40:41

believe in something called trans substantiation,

40:43

which means that when you actually

40:45

ingest the Eucharist or the Lord

40:48

supper or the communion, when you,

40:50

when you, when you take the,

40:52

eat the flesh, you eat the

40:54

bread and you drink the blood

40:57

that. it transforms into the actual

40:59

flesh and blood of Christ. And

41:01

so that's another big debate that

41:03

comes out of John 6 is

41:05

on how we understand the Eucharist.

41:08

Is it symbolic? Is it is

41:10

the Lord's table? Is the Eucharist,

41:12

is it a means of salvation

41:14

or of grace rather, or is

41:17

it an ordinance of grace? Meaning

41:19

is it like an expression of

41:21

it? And so most Protestants believe

41:23

that when you partake in the

41:26

Lord's Supper, the Eucharist, the communion,

41:28

that it's an expression of the

41:30

grace of God when your Lutherans

41:32

and your Catholics would, and I

41:34

think Eastern Orthodox maybe too, would

41:37

believe that this would be an

41:39

actual means of grace. Yes. So

41:41

there's that debate as well. Well,

41:43

maybe that's why there's a, those

41:46

gatherings seem to be a little

41:48

stiff. It's like... paralysis through over

41:50

analysis. Because you just went over

41:52

the argument and I still am

41:55

confused by exactly what that means.

41:57

Well do you believe that, do

41:59

you believe that the bread and

42:01

the wine, is that just a

42:03

symbol or is it turned into

42:06

the actual flesh and blood of

42:08

Christ when you take it? And

42:10

look this, I mean for us

42:12

to, for us today, we could

42:15

look at that and just kind

42:17

of, yeah, whatever you think, but

42:19

if you go back, a while

42:21

back. people literally had terrible things

42:24

happen to them if you believed

42:26

the obvious of that. So I

42:28

want to leave. I actually think

42:30

the discussion on that is interesting.

42:32

I do think that like I

42:35

like to listen to a lot

42:37

of different perspectives on things because

42:39

for me I may not fully

42:41

go somewhere like like a Catholic

42:44

position for example, but I do

42:46

appreciate that they hot they do

42:48

have a in their in their

42:50

kind of idea of the Eucharist

42:53

and Eastern Orthodox the same way.

42:55

There is a very high emphasis

42:57

on the physical world, which I

42:59

think fundamentalist Christianity has actually, we've

43:01

under-emphasized the physical world. And so

43:04

I think there is some goodness

43:06

in it. I don't think it's

43:08

like, that's why I don't, but

43:10

you read it and you think,

43:13

man, we're just going to throw

43:15

this side out, throw this side

43:17

out. I mean, I think everybody's

43:19

kind of bringing important things to

43:21

the table that we should at

43:24

least talk about, and you don't

43:26

have to at least talk about.

43:28

I've tried to. Well another, maybe

43:30

a little more subtle controversy out

43:33

of this text, because Jesus does

43:35

both, is the, is it the

43:37

emphasis on flesh or on spirit?

43:39

Oh, that's another good one, yeah.

43:42

Because that thing comes up a

43:44

lot here, and that's an old

43:46

argument that even was around, even

43:48

before Jesus came to the earth.

43:50

And that's involved in this discussion

43:53

as well. Yeah. I feel like

43:55

this is where I land. I

43:57

mean, I got, I certainly have

43:59

thoughts on all of the things

44:02

we talked about and I've gotten

44:04

into, believe it or not, Jay,

44:06

this won't shock you. I've gotten

44:08

into a lot of robust arguments

44:11

on this. I've found them. A

44:13

big shocker. I have found them

44:15

to be not very productive. One

44:17

in, I don't think I've ever

44:19

convinced someone in my position who

44:22

is entrusts on the other side

44:24

of any of these arguments. I

44:26

don't think I have either. I'm

44:28

at a point where I'm just

44:31

kind of, they're so confusing that

44:33

I've just, I think the arguments

44:35

are based on the wrong... How

44:37

would I say that? On the

44:40

wrong emphasis of what Jesus was

44:42

saying. And the only way to

44:44

prove that is to really just

44:46

read the chapter and kind of

44:48

give our take on it. Because

44:51

my view is complicated. Because I

44:53

think Jesus was trying to do

44:55

a couple of things. And really

44:57

watching the chosen. Because what you

45:00

find that when you try to

45:02

take this, this confusion from the

45:04

disciples and from the people who

45:06

are watching these signs, you're like,

45:09

how come they're not getting it?

45:11

I always struggle with that. And

45:13

my dad did too. Mary'd always

45:15

bring that up. He's like, he's

45:17

told them many times that he

45:20

would have to die and be

45:22

raising. They just can't get it.

45:24

And that really came out. I

45:26

think the chosen did an excellent

45:29

job of that. It's just, because

45:31

in their mind, look, in their

45:33

mind, they had a different narrative

45:35

of what the Messiah was going

45:38

to do. And therein lies the

45:40

problem with all these arguments. I

45:42

really feel like, and this is,

45:44

I'm gonna set this out here

45:46

and then try to prove it,

45:49

is that we're looking at this

45:51

from our perspective. And that's why

45:53

I brought up the heaven and

45:55

hell argument. It's like, really, you

45:58

know, you are... here you are

46:00

you find yourself on the planet

46:02

you hear oh there's possibly a

46:04

way to live again and and

46:07

then you know people tell you

46:09

but you need to get off

46:11

this place because it's everything because

46:13

everything we look around dies yeah

46:15

I think that's what I mean

46:18

I think it's a good point

46:20

when you say that I figure

46:22

out how you just said it

46:24

but I would say it this

46:27

way that when we get into

46:29

the discussion other Transstantiation is a

46:31

little bit of a different concept,

46:33

but when we get into the

46:35

other discussion around predestidation, election, you

46:38

know, the whole, like, that whole

46:40

debate that is, that people have

46:42

debated since the 1500s, right? When

46:44

you get into that... Or probably

46:47

further back than that. It's just

46:49

hard to find. Yeah, I think

46:51

what it came to, it came

46:53

to light through the Reformation, which

46:56

we're all, I mean, that's another

46:58

thing too. Someone says, are you

47:00

reformed? Well, if you're Protestant, then

47:02

technically you're reformed. So, yeah. But,

47:04

um... I hope that people who

47:07

follow you know what you're talking

47:09

about, because when you get off

47:11

into these rabbit holes, No one

47:13

can come in unless he's drawn,

47:16

you know, and and that I

47:18

mean that's true It's in the

47:20

Bible. I think that that's a

47:22

very it's biblical. So we can't

47:25

well I do think that when

47:27

I said look I looked that

47:29

word up and I think I

47:31

want to share this It's only

47:33

used here in John six and

47:36

John 12, which I'll read the

47:38

one in John 12 because I

47:40

do think that helps you understand

47:42

a little bit You know what

47:45

he means by that in John

47:47

12 Remember when he says in

47:49

John 12, the hour has come,

47:51

that's in verse 23, for the

47:54

son of man to be glorified?

47:56

And then 27, he says, my

47:58

heart is troubled. What shall I

48:00

say? Father, save me from this

48:02

hour? I got the chosen on

48:05

my mind because they really dug...

48:07

deep into that. And so then

48:09

they, you hear this voice from

48:11

heaven that says I've glorified it

48:14

and will glorify it again, which

48:16

is obviously the father, the crowd

48:18

there, heard it. They thought it

48:20

had thundered. Others said an angel

48:23

spoken, had spoken to him, but

48:25

then Jesus says in verse 30,

48:27

the voice was for your benefit,

48:29

not mine. Now is the time

48:31

for judgment on this world. Now

48:34

the prince of this world will

48:36

be driven out. So it's this

48:38

reference to the evil one being

48:40

disarmed, cast away. And then he

48:43

says in verse 32, but when

48:45

I am lifted up from the

48:47

earth will draw all men to

48:49

myself. He said this

48:52

to show the kind of death

48:54

he was going to die, which

48:56

in my simple mind, I'm like,

48:58

you know what, no matter where

49:00

the debate goes, Jesus is the

49:03

drawl. One of the things my

49:05

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49:07

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to draw. So every other time

51:00

that Greek word is used, it's

51:02

used twice. in here. The father

51:04

drawing people, Jesus as the draw

51:06

lifted up, every other time, I

51:09

think this is fascinating. It's when,

51:11

it's used in John, remember when

51:13

they put out the nets and

51:15

they drew them in, pulled them,

51:18

it translates, dragged or pulled. That's

51:20

the word. The only other time

51:22

it's used is then acts when

51:24

people were dragged out of the

51:26

temple. or dragged, you know, in

51:29

some scrap that happened. That's it.

51:31

It's only used about seven or

51:33

eight times. And think about the

51:35

nets that they used originally when

51:37

they were catching fish, the nets

51:40

broke at the beginning of the

51:42

calling of the disciples. At the

51:44

end of the Bible, at the

51:46

end of the, the crew in

51:48

Christ was... meeting with him after

51:51

the resurrection, they filled the nets,

51:53

but they didn't break. So I

51:55

think that's the idea. And Christ

51:57

doesn't lose anybody. Christ is never

52:00

going to up. That one got

52:02

away. I didn't see that. happened

52:04

I mean he like it's the

52:06

idea there is a there is

52:08

a like God does not lose

52:11

any of his sheep yeah exactly

52:13

now that doesn't mean they may

52:15

say well I don't want to

52:17

come but since we're in that

52:19

same vein I want to say

52:22

I do think it's interesting that

52:24

when Jesus started this ministry of

52:26

the kingdom and introducing he looked

52:28

at those fishermen and said look

52:30

I'll make you fishers of men

52:33

And the reason I'm bringing that

52:35

up is because I believe that

52:37

draw, he's talking about giving them

52:39

something in the next chapter of

52:42

the Holy Spirit, which he had

52:44

referred to to Nicodemus and John

52:46

3, and us being God's representatives.

52:48

I mean, just think about what

52:50

that means. I'll make you fissures

52:53

of men. Isn't that what Jesus

52:55

is doing? Didn't he come to

52:57

seek and save the lost? And

52:59

so it's like he's trying to

53:01

establish this, what he's doing, you

53:04

will also do. Remember the passages

53:06

that he said, oh, these are

53:08

great things. Well, you'll see greater

53:10

things than that. Where I'm getting

53:12

that from is First John 4,

53:15

where he says, which we're going

53:17

to study First John 4, after

53:19

this. Just listen to this verse,

53:21

Zach. It says, this is the

53:24

love, 410. Not that

53:26

we love God, but that he

53:28

loved us and sent his son

53:30

as an atoning sacrifice for our

53:32

sins, which we just read John

53:34

12, is how he would draw

53:36

men to himself, right? Yeah. Well,

53:38

then verse 11 says, dear friend,

53:41

since God so loved us, well,

53:43

we also ought to love one

53:45

another, kind of getting on to

53:47

this fishers of men type of

53:49

thing, because now it's being given

53:51

to people. No one has ever

53:53

seen God, but if we love

53:56

one another, God lives in a...

53:58

and his love is made complete

54:00

in us which is a direct

54:02

almost quote from John 1 where

54:04

it says Jesus no one has

54:06

ever seen God but John John

54:08

17 says the son has made

54:11

him known and now look first

54:13

John 413 we know that we

54:15

live in him and he and

54:17

us because he's given us his

54:19

spirit he's given us his spirit

54:21

well John 7 is going to

54:23

get into that that streams of

54:25

living water will flow in you.

54:28

Well, what does that do? It

54:30

flows out to other people, the

54:32

spirit of God. And so then

54:34

it says in verse 14 of

54:36

First John 4, and we have

54:38

seen and testified that the Father

54:40

has sent the Son to be

54:43

the Savior of the world. If

54:45

anyone acknowledges that Jesus is Son

54:47

of God, God lives in Him.

54:49

and he and God. And so

54:51

we know and rely on the

54:53

love God has for us. God

54:55

is love, whoever lives in love,

54:58

lives in God and God in

55:00

him. In this way, love is

55:02

made complete among us so that

55:04

we will have confidence on the

55:06

day of judgment because in this

55:08

world, we are like him. So

55:10

my point is, I think we

55:12

don't get into this because... If

55:15

you have the Holy Spirit of

55:17

God, well, people are supposed to

55:19

see God. And if you say,

55:21

look, you're looking at God, he's

55:23

in here, well, you're going to

55:25

get the same argument that Jesus

55:27

was getting when he said, hey,

55:30

if you see me, you've seen

55:32

the Father, if you told somebody,

55:34

if you see me, you've seen

55:36

Jesus, people are immediately going to

55:38

say, oh, I'm uncomfortable right now.

55:40

What are you saying that you're

55:42

God? And I'm saying, no, I

55:44

just read first John, first John,

55:47

John, John, John, for. I have

55:49

the Holy Spirit of God. He's

55:51

in here. He's in me. Do

55:53

you see where I'm going with

55:55

this? Yeah. Yeah, I do. And

55:57

I think it's, when you think

55:59

about the role of the Holy

56:02

Spirit and all of this as

56:04

well, it's, I mean, he does

56:06

initiate all revelation to us about

56:08

Christ. So I've said this in

56:10

the previous podcast, but for example,

56:12

I don't think we are kind

56:14

of like walking around in the

56:17

forest as explorers. And we're like,

56:19

oh, look what we've discovered. Look

56:21

what we've figured out. Now, I

56:23

think God has to always speak

56:25

first before we can ever have

56:27

eyes to see. And before we

56:29

can learn or be taught, God

56:31

has to speak. So I would

56:34

probably go as far as to

56:36

say that man doesn't have an

56:38

original thought ever. Every thought that

56:40

you or I would ever have,

56:42

it actually began in the mind

56:44

of God as God spoke. I

56:46

can't hear until God speaks. And

56:49

so the Bible talks about revelation

56:51

in this way. In seminary, they'll

56:53

call it general and I think

56:55

special or specific revelation or special

56:57

revelation. Generally, God reveals himself to

56:59

us through creation. That's Romans chapter

57:01

one. Like the invisible attributes of

57:04

God have been seen and clearly

57:06

perceived from what's been made. And

57:08

one of the indictments on the

57:10

Gentiles is that even though they

57:12

did not have the official Torah

57:14

or any of the Old Testament,

57:16

They should have known who God

57:18

was by what has been made,

57:21

and what they did was they

57:23

took and exchanged the glory of

57:25

God that was revealed through creation,

57:27

and they actually ended up worshipping

57:29

the things that were created. So

57:31

God does speak, right? He speaks

57:33

to us. Well, he does, but

57:36

then he chose to speak through

57:38

Jesus, which... Well, that's going to

57:40

be more like your special revelation.

57:42

But he became a part of

57:44

creation in that he came through

57:46

a woman. And so I think

57:48

that's why people get confused, but

57:50

all I'm saying is how you

57:53

respond. Sponged like the whole we

57:55

brought up the whole Roy mackerelo

57:57

and the masters and all that

57:59

how he responded Gave you some

58:01

to some weird glimpse into the

58:03

spirit spiritual battle inside his mind,

58:05

and I don't mean capital S

58:08

But just like where you can't

58:10

see all of a sudden you're

58:12

like man this guy was consumed

58:14

by this But you have to,

58:16

yeah, you have to have eyes

58:18

to see. And my point is

58:20

that I think what we're going

58:23

to see throughout all of Jesus's

58:25

teaching is that is only going

58:27

to come through the revelation from

58:29

the Holy Spirit. So the revelation

58:31

of who Christ is, and as

58:33

Christ draws all men to himself,

58:35

like I can't see that until

58:37

the Holy Spirit says open, he

58:40

can mix me and I see

58:42

it because he told me. That's

58:44

the only way I can see

58:46

it. I think you've served into

58:48

what I see as the arch

58:50

in John 5 and 6, which

58:52

we'll do in the next podcast,

58:55

because we're almost out of time,

58:57

is general revelation and specific revelation

58:59

that Jesus brought. And I think

59:01

in that specific, there are two

59:03

things that are the big narrative

59:05

here, and that's the spirit and

59:07

the resurrection. But I'll get into

59:10

that next time, and we all

59:12

will. We'll just read through the

59:14

text next time days, and then

59:16

we'll just kind of reset it

59:18

and let it speak for itself

59:20

on the next day. Thanks for

59:22

listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help

59:24

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59:27

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