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hello and welcome to under the skin

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from luminary this week, i spoke with

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bachi ungar-sargon, deputy opinion

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editor of newsweek she's written for the washington

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post, the new york times and the

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daily beast by chase the 45

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news how woke media is undermining

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democracy if you listen to under

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the skin, an apple podcast, please leave us a

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review that really help us find us, judy

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says terrific five stars teacher, taylor

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always enjoy hearing

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russell's take on life in this

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part of the the interview with b yeah we talk

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about how media outlets are trying to

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appeal to a one limited demographic

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and ignoring all of a

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demographics which crisis of an illusionary

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spice you know they're not talking to all

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of us they're ignoring a significant percentage of

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the population not talking about what might lead to

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a solution to the type of problems we're facing

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and the law batches amazing and eloquent

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and brilliant in this conversation you'll love it trying

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to any the quality with the annihilation

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of calgary and

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right an era where turns

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out and we were never

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beneath surface of and with

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my of the ideas of the financial

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him

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i'm two run homer i'm not

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here i think you talk you talk

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about how i'm the

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all news media outlets are trying

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to appeal to the same limited demographic

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could tell us about that place

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yeah definitely so

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you know the golden age of american journalism

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let's say like you know the eighteenth century nineteenth

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century and twenties and early twentieth century if

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you have media was

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totally partisan services thing

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that i think people people to complain that are

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media's partisan actually that it's becoming like the

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uk where every publication has a kind of

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political bent and everybody knows what that isn't you

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get paper that appeals you split

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in the golden age of american media

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and the media was very very partisan

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it was just parties and on behalf of the masses

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so you would have situation like nineteen

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when you new york where they were

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so many communist newspapers

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that you would be a communist and have five

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communist newspapers that you would never dream

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of opening because were the wrong kind

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of communist swalec our the situation

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there were so many working class americans

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and it's such a plethora of choices

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and be journalists the speech i'm so

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used to like this very working class trade

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you know like kind person became

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journalist with like actually probably someone like

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you the guy sitting in the back of the classroom

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to can't stop cracking wise

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who has like real way with words and

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hates authorities and like teachers

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constantly kicking him out and like but

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he's so great everybody laugh

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and he like it like yeah that's why

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of put in classroom to give teacher hard time

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because ah kam who gave him power

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over me rights and he was so anti authoritarian

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eighty a terrible parents that he couldn't

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go work in factory because he couldn't

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listen to direction he would been dangerous

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everybody around him since they're going the factory

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like everybody else in a class he'll he'll become

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a journalist rates and when he went to be

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a journal to be introduced politicians and he

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would be exactly the same way he was my classroom

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you would think it was his job to defy

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that authority in demand justice on behalf

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of the little guy that she lived with a he's still

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lived in those communities that was like most

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of american journalism and but

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that seems sigma happy most this

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last fifty years where democrats started

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you know they abandon the working class they started to rise

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economically with that type of

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that economy they built that's really good

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for people knowledge into she tops journalist

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started to become more and more highly educated

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he starts make more and more money and now

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they're really in top ten preview really has to

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come from money to even become journalist

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you're actually the uk even worth but the top

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two percent or something but you have

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to go to these really fancy schools you have to take

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all these unpaid internship so you're working

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your way through college you can forget about at the

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new york times npr washington post

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was you journal these people take their interns from the top

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one percent of universities and

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there's no more local news it it's sort

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of disappeared right so the class

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of journal became like

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a it was a status revolution they

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went from being the little by demanding

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justice from the powerful to part of the powerful

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they go to school with the part people who end up

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being politicians that they cover they live in the same

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neighborhoods and all the such and at the same

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time the digital media and

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the way that digital media works is

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am your your the way you measure success

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i mean you notice from your show by is in

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terms of engagement right how many people were

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engaged and you know it's something

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probably also have noticed as like the most

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engaged people are always the most

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extreme so if you're the new york

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times you suddenly have this

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like over educated elite

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class of journalists but you

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wanna be catering to the kids they

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went to to school with who are now living in in the

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same expensive cities because their data

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is is the data that you do matters that they

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they can sell that it, they they can can make a profit off off of luckily

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for them, they know exactly how to to appeal to them

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and how how to appeal to to their their motions because their newsroom

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is made up up of of that exact same class and

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so so, when you you used to to have the situation where

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like you know a a newspaper, let's let's you'd

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have have town that that had was like, 50% democrats

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directors right? and

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then that you you had you know a newspaper

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in this town right so, so this soda

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newspaper right let's say in the seventies right before

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the big sorting the guy who one that

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paper can make a choice i could let my

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journalists report the news in last

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few version right and and get

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all of democrats but then i lose fifty percent

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of townsfolk if i report the new straight

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and having a balanced editorial page and get the whole

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town to read my paper today digital

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media is the exact opposite they don't

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want any of those other readers

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and viewers they only want the

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six percent of americans who are progressive

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more affluent to her living in these coastal

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cities like the it's very targeted and

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because digital media allows you to see

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who everybody is who's reading you

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and your journalists know how to get them

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how to get their emotions going because they know

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what makes them emotional like it was like

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this sort of marriage between a

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new profit motive and then a journalistic

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class that the like uniquely situated

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to talk to

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well that's fascinating thank you also

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know that i'm the i can as

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you described that battier it became

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clear that men that when you

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get to the day a catch up part

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of that that is it again

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how the economic imperatives

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bias the report in of

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news that and also very

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how his lead to an

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, understanding

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of american that say

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cultural life because if

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you read the newspapers if

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you watch the tv shows you

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might feel that this is the

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cultural temperature temperature

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actually it's very small

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subset so in l i suppose

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that the in this war

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that suggests to me is that there is a as

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when you talk about lay and power but

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there are that this late in power our malays

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in power and spiritual phenomena

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that you're dealing with the energy of individuals

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the attention of individuals their

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potential ability of individuals

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galvanized and motivated by

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a relevant ideology to

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transition out of one set of social

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ideals and into a new staff social

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ideals it seems that there's been a

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sort of i'm in a sense b referring

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to the earlier part of our conversation to sort of i

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i cultural coup

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in terms of the kind a linguistic

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alteration and cultural paraphernalia

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that fanatically represents cultural set of ideals

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we have in this of like you know movement progressive

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he's in my again to reiterate when comes actual

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racial gender or call

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eighty to ideas of i'm i'm of course supportive

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of i've always been so cynical about

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that the per the appointment of these

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ideas in corporate and media spices

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and same way though don't think that unique

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leave a particularly care about

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green issues and climate change

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ba that they will utilize these ideas

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were convenient when it comes

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to reboot in

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rig our awakening i dormant

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class that previously had as you say

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five communist newspapers to

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choose from on a silver someone

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robust social democratic

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political movement and may have even

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media class at it now

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we're a situation with our eye on

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, a ignored ,

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at best what kind

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of political movement the

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you think is required to reawaken

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them given that most recent examples appear

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to be of ethno nationalist movements

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or least have been rendered as such

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such as in a trump

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some for an obvious example brakes it's

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in our country and even in countries like india

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with modi aware that dude code

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you know lots of when so that like these retroactive

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kind of nationalists ideas of reawakened

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because precisely because they probably

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have us have nostalgic plug that

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the progressivism by it's nature

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cannot incorporates what

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do think will be a more legit

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, month sell a legitimate

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manifest that will will be pieces of

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legitimate manifesto them every

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of i can this film class

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i was so we're very lucky in america because

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this country was founded on an idea

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rather than and ethnicity of

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, it was racist for long time

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they took all it took many many

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hundreds of she has to some separate

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out that idea from

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the races and structural racism the systemic

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racism in obviously starting with slavery jim crow

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and even today with with

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of the way that policing is done

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still working on aspect me

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know when you listen to someone like

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steve bannon who's not someone i agree

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with about i agree of things but you

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know the stop the steel thing obviously

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are sort of not on that train but

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he he says repeatedly

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that the nationalism were discussing

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here is multiracial multiethnic

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and he was the number one backer of i'm

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cathy barnett and pennsylvania who has

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a black candidate who was an

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the child of rape actually her mother

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was raped when she was eleven years old by

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her father who was twenty one at the time

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and so she was just sort deeply

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deeply conservative

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candidate and she saw herself as the true

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inheritor of the mag a movement and steve

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bannon was one who sort of pushed her up there and

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said this is the real trump candidate even though trumpet

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endorse doctor oz so i

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i i see no reason not to believe

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that the nationalism in that movements

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to algae eaters racists everywhere but

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the nationalism in that movement to me having

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spoken to many many many people who are

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in the mega cab the it is not

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racial at all it's multiracial

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that they have a problem with bringing in immigrants

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to replace them at work ill and

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the last how

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bout racist they called that as though nationalist

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burrito black americans

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it or the biggest group in the democratic

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coalition of the eighty five percent

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them want more rigorous restrictions

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at the border it to call those people

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racist to me as at the site put me

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in that yeah i'm that camp like whatever eighty

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five percent black americans saying i'm that camp

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and and to more so why why did

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the democrats demonize this

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sort of opposition to open borders as

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as racists the gun like

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it like i don't think they did that like cynically

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the same time they are the number

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one consumers of shows

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and pay underpaid you

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know illegal immigrant labor

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whether it's domestic servants am fifty

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percent of illegal immigrants are employed

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as domestic servants and that's not you

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know not doing that in middle america right

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they're doing that blue city folks again it's

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like one of these situations that i see genuinely

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believe this a racial justice issue to

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bring in poor of other countries but

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at same time are lining their pockets with this

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ideology and mandate to hide

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that unconsciously perhaps

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the demonized people were saying these people

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there are you cannot have wage for you

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have an open border like that's just totally obvious

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rates yup or they'll say oh gdp

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rose you know with with mass

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immigration it's like okay gdp

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for who though

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if you're enjoying this join me over a luminary on

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apple podcasts for the rest of discussion of

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and all the latest episodes of under the skin