0:02

Welcome to Unstoppable at Craig , where

0:04

we pull back the curtain on what makes healthy

0:06

workplace cultures click and what happens

0:09

when people are empowered to expand

0:11

the boundaries of what is possible . We'll

0:13

explore the perspectives of employees and

0:15

leaders who have carte blanche to speak their

0:17

truths , tell their stories and unlock

0:19

uncommon ways of approaching challenges

0:22

. I'm Dr Jandell Allen-Davis

0:24

, ceo and President of Craig Hospital

0:26

, a world-renowned rehabilitation

0:28

hospital that exclusively specializes

0:31

in the neurorehabilitation and research

0:33

of patients with spinal cord and brain

0:35

injury . Join me as we learn from people

0:37

who love what they do and what happens

0:39

when fear doesn't stifle innovation

0:41

doesn't

0:52

stifle innovation . I remember when I first met this amazing guy I get to talk with today

0:54

at Craig Hospital . It was before the pandemic , I think , and

0:56

it was on the fourth floor gym , which means nothing

0:58

to any of you except that's a physical therapy gym

1:00

. It was in the evening and one of the traditions

1:03

and conventions that's part of our really

1:06

expansive peer mentoring program is

1:08

that there is a dinner once a month that's

1:10

hosted by any one of a number of generous

1:13

either organizations or individuals , and

1:15

Josh was there . But what I was struck

1:18

by immediately as we were talking and I said I

1:20

need to get to know you better just because of

1:22

the work you were doing in advocacy for

1:25

our folks with one of the

1:27

toughest , I think , agendas in America

1:29

talk . But it is my absolute pleasure to welcome Josh

1:47

Basile and have the opportunity to

1:50

just get to know you so welcome .

1:52

It's great to be here today and thank you for having

1:54

me on the podcast Well it is super

1:56

cool to do this .

1:57

You know , we talked to , and I've had the just

2:00

the privilege and opportunity to talk to , a lot of

2:02

folks in different sectors . This

2:04

podcast gives us the opportunity to talk

2:06

about building great cultures and we're going to have

2:09

, as I think about it , the chance to talk

2:11

about building great cultures at a policy

2:13

stage , at a national , at a global

2:15

stage , in a very different way , and

2:17

, heaven knows , there's tons of work to do

2:20

in this space . So I thought just

2:22

to contextualize things

2:24

, since we're just chatting and no one can see

2:26

us , maybe we'd start by having

2:28

you , josh , just tell your story . Well

2:31

, again .

2:31

It's great to be here , and my

2:33

journey into the spinal cord injury world

2:36

started as a teenager . It was

2:38

almost 20 years ago . I

2:40

was on a summer vacation , finished

2:42

my freshman year of college and went

2:44

to the beach with my family and friends , something

2:47

I look forward to every year . And

2:49

while in the water waist-high

2:51

water I turned my back to the ocean

2:54

and a wave just picked

2:56

me up , threw me over my boogie board

2:58

and I landed headfirst against the ocean

3:00

floor . And I remember just hearing

3:02

a loud crack , ocean floor . And I remember just

3:04

hearing a loud crack . And when I became paralyzed , I

3:07

was face down in the water , unable

3:10

to move my arms , my legs , unable

3:12

to scream for help . And

3:19

I just remember floating in the water , just kind of trying to be

3:21

as calm as I could , to not panic , and just hoping my friends would see me . I floated

3:23

there for a while . I'm happy

3:25

to report they did , they did , they found

3:27

me and that was the start to a

3:29

new life . I was medevaced off the

3:31

beach to a hospital system in

3:33

a critical unit and spent

3:36

the next four weeks in

3:38

the trauma unit with a ventilator on

3:40

my neck , unable to breathe

3:43

on my own , unable to speak words because

3:46

of the ventilator , and I could

3:48

only communicate with my family by blinking

3:50

once for yes and twice for no . Then

3:53

I went to spend another

3:55

two months in an inpatient hospital

3:57

and I was sent home

3:59

and off to a new life . That was , yeah

4:01

, 20 years ago . It's kind of crazy

4:03

to think about that .

4:04

It's interesting you use the phrase off to a new life . It certainly was a new life

4:07

. That was , yeah , 20 years ago . It's kind of crazy to think about that . It's interesting you use the phrase off

4:09

to a new life , did it ? It certainly was a new and different life . You say that

4:11

with a smile , which is amazing

4:13

. I could imagine , though , that it wasn't with smiles

4:15

at the beginning , and what was that transition

4:17

like ?

4:17

if you don't mind , sharing , yeah , there weren't many

4:20

smiles in the beginning days , but

4:22

I did find my first smile

4:24

thanks to community

4:26

thanks to mentors . I

4:28

remember I was in my

4:30

inpatient room and

4:32

this guy , robbie

4:35

Beckman , who's a quadriplegic

4:37

from the Maryland area , was injured

4:39

like a year before me and

4:42

he ends up racing

4:44

in the room in his power wheelchair and tries

4:47

to almost attacking my nurse

4:49

playfully and I was just like what

4:51

is going on ? This is like the

4:53

strangest scene ever . I have no idea

4:55

who this person is . And he starts kind

4:58

of yelling at her like smiling , laughing , and

5:00

I was just like I have no idea what's

5:02

going on . And he looks at me and he's like

5:04

son , you got to turn that frown upside down

5:06

and it's the first time I smiled . I

5:08

was like I didn't know you could be playful with

5:11

a spinal cord injury . I didn't know you could have

5:13

fun , you could joke . Since then it's

5:15

been a I've just had countless

5:17

mentors come into my life

5:19

to show me what was possible

5:22

and that life could go on in

5:24

beautiful ways . And

5:31

I know , just laying in the hospital bed during the early days I would just be on my back , staring

5:33

at the ceiling , counting every little imperfection

5:35

in the ceiling and memorizing it . Because

5:37

it was just . Those were my days

5:39

and I would be dreaming of like

5:41

what could my future still hold

5:43

, and I didn't know , but as

5:46

time went on it ended up becoming

5:48

a pretty beautiful future .

5:50

Yeah , and I don't even want to fast

5:52

forward through all the chapters , but

5:55

I will say fast forward to today

5:57

. You clearly figured it all out . What

6:00

was that story ?

6:00

like being able to follow

6:03

in others' wheel tracks you

6:05

know , being a quadriplegic

6:07

. It's

6:12

going from being on two feet , running

6:14

everywhere and living life with pure independence

6:16

. I had to hit a big reset button

6:19

on life and

6:21

you know , I did things a million different ways before my

6:23

injury . Now I do it one million

6:25

new ways , one million different ways . And

6:27

having to figure that out

6:30

it could either be done by trial

6:32

and error or it could be done by

6:34

learning from others , learning from community

6:36

members , and you know , truly

6:39

, the power of mentoring

6:42

changed my world , being

6:44

able to have people come into my life . When

6:47

I was still in the hospital I

6:49

got to meet Tim Strachan , who was a

6:52

quadriplegic from Maryland who , 10

6:54

years earlier than me , was at the

6:56

same beach a few doors down , dove

6:59

headfirst into the water and

7:01

hit a sandbar and shattered his

7:03

neck , and

7:08

he actually had a full ride to play for Joe Paterno at Penn State . He was the number

7:10

one prospect college football

7:12

player quarterback and he

7:14

came home , went to community

7:16

college , went to undergrad , then

7:19

went to the law school . He

7:21

passed the bar , fell in love

7:23

, got married and had

7:25

kids . And you know what , when

7:27

I heard that story early on

7:30

, it just said Josh , if Tim

7:32

can do it , you can do it too . So

7:34

it set me on a new path and

7:36

a new mission . You know what I

7:39

can live a meaningful life

7:41

and make an impact . And as

7:43

I went through school and really

7:45

and really , in those early days of my injury

7:47

when I did regain my voice

7:50

, I found the power of

7:53

what your voice and your words can

7:55

do to influence the world around you . So

7:58

becoming a communication major

8:00

myself , then graduating

8:02

Magna cum laude from law school

8:04

, I did it without ever flipping a page

8:06

with my fingers .

8:07

There's a ton of tangents in there

8:10

. You're pointing out the importance of mentoring

8:12

. Just to say that there is big life , like

8:14

the person who came in , who's married and has

8:16

kids , went to law school . The

8:18

man who came in and joked

8:21

with the nurse and said turn that

8:23

frown upside down and I love that your

8:25

very first smile . I know

8:27

it's had a bigger impact than just you

8:29

saying that mentoring is important in

8:31

words . You know , when I think about Spinalpedia

8:34

, I'd love for you to spend some time talking about

8:36

that . And then , what was the genesis ? What inspired

8:38

you to create this incredible library

8:41

of all sorts of videos that are easily

8:43

accessible ?

8:45

Well , with hitting that big reset

8:47

button and

8:50

entering this new world of

8:52

paralysis . It's just it's

8:54

crazy to think about every little piece

8:57

of your day , every little activity

8:59

of daily living . You have to figure

9:02

out how to do it again . And the

9:04

way that I figured out how to do it a

9:06

lot because of my paralysis

9:08

and high level injuries I

9:11

would have to rely a lot on technology and

9:13

a lot on caregivers . So I became very

9:15

dependent on technology

9:18

or adaptive devices

9:20

or family friends , caregivers

9:22

to tackle life . But

9:24

I learned very quickly that through

9:27

all the technology and

9:29

people in my life I became independent

9:32

because as long as I could have

9:34

the say , physically

9:38

I was paralyzed , but mentally I

9:40

was still there , I was still Josh and

9:42

focusing on what I could control that

9:45

perspective . It really transformed

9:48

my ability to kind of tackle

9:50

my day with purpose . But

9:52

it really took mentors to give me the

9:55

ability how to figure things out so

9:57

that I didn't have to do it five or

9:59

10 different ways and fail . I could be

10:01

like , all right , they did it . Well , that way , I'm

10:03

going to try it . Did that work for me ? It

10:05

did . I'm going to do it that way , or you know what it didn't , but I'm

10:07

work for me . It did , I'm gonna do it that way , or you know what it ? didn't , but I'm gonna tweak it

10:09

and I'm gonna figure out how to how to do it in my own way or

10:12

within my own environment . But so

10:14

much of that mentoring that I

10:17

found it just like every single time

10:19

that I had someone new come into my life , it

10:21

just it rocked my world . It got me

10:23

in a different direction , it got me on

10:25

a straighter path to figuring this

10:27

all out . And it's

10:30

crazy , but after 10 months

10:32

I compiled it felt like

10:34

volumes of information that

10:36

I wish I could have slowly rolled

10:39

out to myself right after

10:41

my injury . So I didn't have to make

10:43

the big mistakes . I didn't have to . I

10:45

didn't have to struggle through different parts of

10:48

of the mental game of an

10:50

injury or or how to

10:52

gain access to vocational

10:54

supports or government programs . And

10:57

because the quicker you can get

10:59

in the in the right direction on

11:01

a different path with a with a

11:03

high level spinal cord injury or with any

11:06

really spinal cord injury , it's

11:09

a whole new world of possibilities and

11:13

I know each and every time I

11:15

met those special people it's

11:18

just like I kept on saying I wish I met you sooner

11:20

. But I would

11:22

always come to each new encounter

11:24

with a sense of gratitude

11:26

. First of all because it's just like you

11:29

know . You don't know what you don't know and if

11:32

people are willing to give and to

11:34

help you and if you're willing to

11:36

let them in . That's sometimes the hardest

11:38

part of paralysis

11:40

in the early days . You

11:43

choose to believe like this is

11:45

going to be so temporary , I'm going

11:47

to beat this , and it's good to have that

11:49

mentality . It's good to have hope . Any

11:52

dose of hope is good in life

11:54

and in general . I'm

11:57

not saying to give up that hope early on . What

11:59

I'm saying is , like so often

12:02

, there's people within the

12:04

spinal cord community that I end up

12:06

reaching out to and mentoring I'll go a little bit more into that but like they're

12:08

not ready to have a mentor , there's people within the spinal cord community that I end

12:10

up reaching out to and mentoring I'll go a little bit more into that but

12:13

they're not ready to have a mentor . They're

12:15

still coping , they're still in the grief

12:18

stage or

12:21

they're just not ready for that . But luckily I

12:23

had certain mentors in my life to show me the value of it . Luckily I had certain mentors

12:25

in my life to show me the value of it . And

12:28

the next thing I knew , the more and more people I

12:31

let into my life , it

12:33

set me off in

12:36

a really , really beautiful journey . And

12:44

so about 10 months after my injury , I had friends and family come to me and said Josh

12:46

, what do you want to do with your next

12:48

chapter ? And we decided

12:50

we wanted to start a foundation . So

12:52

we started the Determined to Heal Foundation

12:54

to help simplify

12:56

the transition into life with paralysis

12:59

for newly injured families . And

13:01

at first I kind of just shared my story and

13:04

almost writing like a book , 130

13:07

pages of different topics

13:09

that we ended up putting on the internet . But

13:11

I quickly learned that my unique level of paralysis

13:14

was very specific to me . One

13:17

level above my injury , I would

13:19

likely be on a ventilator . One level below , I'd

13:22

start to have a tricep one level

13:24

of that uh , fingers , um

13:27

and level , like it's just every level

13:29

of the spinal cord injury branches

13:31

out into a whole new world . So

13:34

then I started saying , all right , what can we do

13:36

to bring mentors to people across

13:38

the world ? And that's when Spinalpedia

13:41

was born . It's a video

13:43

mentoring platform where we take

13:45

videos from the internet and break

13:47

them down , all by functionality , so

13:50

that you put your exact movement in and

13:52

the next you know , you have somebody within

13:54

the process community to show you

13:56

different activities of daily

13:58

living , different parts of life you

14:01

name it . And now , in 2024

14:05

, since 2007 , we

14:07

are now over 10,000 community

14:10

members and over 33,000

14:12

videos broken down by functionality

14:15

, and it's just one of those things . It

14:18

started off as my baby and it's

14:20

now a teenager and it's

14:22

grown up in a beautiful way and

14:24

I'm very , very proud of

14:26

what it's become .

14:28

It certainly takes a village or entourage

14:30

, however you want to put it . I want to

14:32

switch gears just a bit

14:34

, because you

14:36

did go to law school Holy moly , I love

14:38

it and never flipped a page

14:40

, which is scary . But there you

14:43

go in terms of the ability to do

14:45

what you got done through

14:47

any one of a number of both technologies and , as

14:49

you said , people to help . But you've

14:51

, I think , committed your life to

14:53

a particularly important aspect

14:55

of law , and it has to do with disability

14:57

law , which is what I remember us talking about in

14:59

that gym that day , which was one of the

15:01

things that I said . Oh , because I'd done government relations

15:04

at Kaiser Permanente before coming to Craig

15:06

, and obviously we have a role that we

15:08

play in local and national policy

15:10

. But I wanted to give you a just just

15:13

talk about how that whole journey

15:15

started and then we can get into some specifics

15:17

.

15:18

You know , when I learned that Tim Strachan became

15:21

an attorney , it kind of taught

15:23

me that you know the power

15:25

of your voice , the power of advocacy . You

15:28

can really change the world with your words

15:30

, and if you have a unique set of skills

15:32

, more so than

15:34

others , you really can

15:36

gain a superpower of sorts to

15:38

change the world around you . So

15:41

I started getting as much education and

15:43

confidence as I possibly could around

15:46

advocacy and I turned

15:48

it almost into a sport , into a game . The

15:51

more I practiced at it , the more I played at it

15:53

, the more I put myself into the game , the

15:55

better I got , and learning

15:57

everything I could around me also

16:00

helped . Being

16:03

able to live in the Washington DC area contributed to allowing

16:05

me to be , you know , rolled down the streets of Capitol Hill

16:07

. I learned that you know . When I wheeled down the streets in DC area contributed to allowing me to be , you know , roll down the streets of Capitol Hill . I learned that , you

16:09

know , when I wheel down the streets in

16:12

DC I get to turn some heads , but

16:15

if I wheel down the street with you

16:17

know , two or three or five people

16:19

in chairs a lot more

16:21

people Turn a lot of heads yeah you

16:23

create a small army and people

16:25

start listening , People start healing and

16:27

they realize that this is a

16:30

real story , this is real life

16:32

, this is real impact and

16:34

letting them be a part of your journey

16:36

and that consistency

16:39

within advocacy I learned

16:41

it's . Change does not

16:43

happen fast anywhere

16:46

in the world , especially within the US

16:48

political system , but

16:50

a consistent , steady beat , a

16:52

persistent beat of letting

16:55

the world know what needs to change , why

16:58

it needs to change , and continuing

17:00

to working with the powers to

17:02

be to make it happen . It's

17:04

just , it's amazing

17:07

what happens when you

17:09

keep beating that drum over time . There's

17:11

so many things that need fixing

17:14

. Unfortunately , so

17:17

many people within spinal cord injury rely

17:20

on Medicaid , and when Medicaid

17:22

was first formed in the 1970s

17:25

, it was made to help get poor people

17:28

off the ground and to get them

17:30

back up and to give them a

17:32

safety net of sort in place

17:35

so that they just didn't

17:37

crumble . They had something

17:40

to support them and they quickly

17:42

joined in the elderly

17:45

, children and

17:47

persons with disabilities . But they

17:49

left that component that you had to be poor

17:51

, and that's been one of the

17:53

hardest points of having

17:55

a high-level injury is the

17:57

only place you really can turn for

17:59

long-term care , which is that

18:01

nursing care , that attending care in

18:04

the community , is through Medicaid

18:06

, and people

18:08

with disabilities , especially

18:11

with spinal cord injuries at high levels , will

18:13

always choose to survive before

18:15

they thrive . Survival is

18:17

attached to Medicaid if

18:20

you want to be in the community and out of an institution

18:22

like a nursing home . So

18:25

basically , people with disabilities , especially

18:27

spinal cord injuries , were not going back

18:29

to work . And in the 1990s

18:33

they realized that people weren't

18:35

going back to work because if they made any money they'd

18:37

lose their caregiving . The federal

18:39

government , Congress , decided

18:42

to pass two pieces of legislation the 1997

18:45

Balanced Budget Act and the 1999

18:47

Ticket to Work , Work Incentive Improvement

18:49

Act and both of these legislative

18:51

authorities granted states

18:54

to create what's known as Medicaid buying programs

18:56

for workers with disabilities and

18:58

allowed states to design

19:00

people have higher income

19:02

, higher asset limits , be able to

19:05

work to a certain point and

19:07

not be kicked out of their Medicaid benefits

19:09

. And this was a beautiful turning

19:12

point . In the beginning

19:14

days they made very conservative

19:16

rules around these programs

19:19

and as time went on

19:21

, state by state by state

19:23

, we're finding that a lot of these rules

19:25

are being relaxed to allow people to make

19:27

more money , to save more money , to

19:30

be able to get married without a penalty to

19:32

be able to work past the age of 65

19:34

. So right now that's one

19:36

of my biggest advocacy

19:39

pieces in my life is

19:41

transforming Medicaid buying programs across

19:44

the country 46 out of

19:47

50 states have Medicaid-buying

19:49

programs .

19:49

Oh , that's fabulous .

19:50

So Florida , alabama , louisiana

19:52

and Tennessee are currently the

19:54

only states that do not have it , and

19:56

the District of Columbia , but within

19:58

Maryland , after five years

20:00

of advocacy I started with

20:03

Governor Hogan , who's a former governor I

20:05

was actually able to convince with

20:08

Governor Hogan , who's a former governor , I was actually able to convince

20:10

him and his administration to remove the income limits and to allow once

20:12

somebody's in the program to

20:14

save for the future based on the amount

20:17

of money they make in a year . So as of

20:19

January 1 , 2024 , this

20:21

year , maryland workers with disabilities

20:23

in the Medicaid Buy-In Program are

20:26

able to work without any

20:28

barriers on income , which is huge .

20:30

That's amazing , you know , it's almost . I guess

20:32

I'm going to try not to get on a soapbox

20:35

, but it's unbelievable to

20:37

think about what a huge inequity that

20:39

is . I can save for the future as much as

20:41

I want and continue to work as

20:43

a person not living with a disability

20:45

, I mean it just so

20:47

marginalizes and so calls out

20:49

difference where there shouldn't be . So

20:52

what you're doing , you and

20:54

a throng of others rolling

20:56

to the capitals all over this country

20:58

, is

21:00

welcome , and you know , I think

21:03

there's also an all boats rise with

21:05

the tide playing out here too , because

21:08

the same thing happens for able-bodied , poor people

21:10

who are trapped in poverty

21:12

because of some real arcane regulations

21:15

and rules that need to change .

21:17

So thank you , and the only way they're going to change

21:19

is to is to speak up

21:21

. Let your voices be heard , let

21:24

your wheels be heard . Just you , your wheels , be heard . You

21:26

got to be heard . The only way

21:28

to really change the world is

21:31

to immerse yourself within it and

21:33

to let the world around you know

21:35

that you have value , that you

21:37

have purpose and that your

21:39

future is up to you

21:41

. I learned early on in my injury that nobody's going to fight harder for me than I'm going

21:43

to fight for myself . And when I learned that I my injury , that nobody's going to

21:45

fight harder for me than I'm going to fight for myself

21:48

. And when I learned that I

21:50

became an advocate for life and

21:53

I need to be able to bring together

21:55

other beautiful people to fight

21:57

alongside me so that we can amplify our

21:59

voices and stories and to show

22:01

that systematic problems

22:04

need to be fixed , because it's just

22:06

not one person falling through the cracks

22:08

, it's many .

22:10

What are some of the other big cultural

22:13

issues that do need to change through

22:16

yours and others' leadership ? And

22:18

not just those who are wheelchair

22:20

users or who are spinal cord

22:23

or brain injury or any other disability

22:26

, but those of us who do

22:28

use these two things to walk

22:30

around on and can jump out of bed . What's

22:33

some of the big things we have

22:35

to struggle with ?

22:36

Yeah . So the patience and persistence

22:39

, it's key . Like

22:42

you can't win every day within

22:45

the advocacy game , it just doesn't work

22:47

like that . Small incremental wins

22:49

and many losses

22:51

together both of those together

22:54

is forward

22:56

moving . It's

22:59

like even this year , through the Maryland legislature , I brought forward

23:01

a bill so that people age

23:03

65 and above in Maryland could

23:05

be able to work without losing all

23:07

their Medicaid , which currently

23:10

you turn 65 , it's time

23:12

to retire , which is

23:14

not fair . There's a marriage

23:16

penalty , so if I were to get married , my

23:18

premium per month would go from

23:20

$50 to over $500

23:22

, $700 a month , which disincentivizes

23:25

marriage which I would love to marry

23:27

, the love of my life my fiance and

23:30

the Department of Health

23:32

in my state was able to kill the bill

23:34

, but we were able

23:36

to get a survey put forward so

23:38

that over the next year they could study

23:41

it . We got the media behind us

23:43

and I full heartedly believe in 2025

23:46

, we will get the bill passed . We

23:48

didn't get it done this year , but we

23:51

were allowed enough to get the powers

23:53

to be to recognize that they needed to do something , to

23:56

get the powers to be to recognize that they needed to do

23:59

something . There's

24:01

a big issue right now with access to care

24:03

and good care and making sure that those that are attendants and nurses want

24:06

to enter this field and get paid

24:08

a fair wage , and that's a

24:10

struggle . I see quadriplegics

24:12

like myself and my level of injury

24:14

getting two to three hours in the morning

24:16

and two to three hours in the

24:19

evening . That's tough being

24:21

able to have that number of hours

24:23

for care . When you're paralyzed

24:25

below the shoulders , it's

24:28

almost torturous to not

24:30

have the supports needed to

24:32

be able to tackle your day and live your best life

24:34

. There's

24:36

so many things that we need to do within transportation to be able to tackle your day

24:38

and live your best life Like there's so many things that we need to do within transportation to

24:40

be able to give access to more

24:42

people to the world around them , and

24:45

you know we live in a world right now where

24:47

the Internet is . You

24:49

know most people now realize

24:51

that they have to make their physical storefront

24:54

accessible to

24:57

people that are going to be customers

24:59

, but we now live in this huge digital

25:01

world where our websites need to be accessible

25:04

. The different products and the

25:06

way that we communicate with the world online

25:08

needs to be accessible , and I've been extremely

25:11

passionate about that .

25:13

There's no shortage of work for us to

25:15

do . I mean the very and it's all . As

25:17

I look at it , it just it's . I

25:20

gotta tell you it's angering and I'm going to try not to

25:22

get emotional , but you know , when you're

25:24

talking about being able to marry

25:26

, to marry , you know one

25:28

of the things that we hold so at

25:30

least politicians do sacrosanct

25:33

and wonderful being able to

25:35

get around where public transportation actually

25:37

works , let alone private , and is affordable

25:40

. Employment , which you

25:43

know lessening , to use a phrase , the burden of

25:45

government in general , just to have

25:47

full access to employment . And

25:49

, in particular , one of the things I don't know , that I've said

25:51

this to you but your story certainly once

25:53

again reinforces , is that the people

25:56

many , most , in fact I

25:58

dare say all people living with spinal

26:01

cord injuries , absent congenital

26:03

conditions , woke

26:05

up with one reality and went to bed with a very

26:07

different one . It's not as if they left everything

26:10

that they are and were and their potential

26:12

on that ocean floor or

26:14

on that , you know , the side of that road in a

26:16

car accident , or at

26:18

the bottom of that building from a fall , or those

26:20

stairs from a fall , and yet we throw and

26:23

we waste so much realized

26:26

, actualized and potential this

26:29

way , home health , and then accessibility

26:32

through as we become a more digital

26:34

world . Those are just

26:36

five of a host of things that will keep

26:38

a ton of us busy

26:40

. It's one of the things just

26:43

a little sharing is , I've thought , why

26:46

did the heavens put an OBGYN

26:48

in the place of service

26:51

at a national neurorehabilitation hospital

26:53

? And I knew what it was . It was to use my voice

26:56

on behalf of the vulnerable , and

26:58

I call myself a warrior for the vulnerable

27:00

. So together we're stronger . I rarely

27:02

say fatigue or tired because

27:04

there's lots of work left to do . But

27:08

what would you , from your 38

27:10

year vistas , say

27:12

to we old folks , because and

27:15

I think it's important to get that and

27:17

by old folks , old leaders , old people who are

27:19

going to be in the fight till the

27:21

fight ends ? I say that because maybe

27:23

there'll be a day that old Josh will

27:26

need to hear that from young Josh . So what would you say

27:28

to those of us who you know

27:30

these fights get all this many

27:32

years of doing this and at my age given

27:34

therefore , you know , know , when I went

27:36

into medicine , what it looked like , let alone

27:39

the very few leaders

27:42

of color and certainly disabled

27:44

leaders that are out there who

27:46

are the sort of the , the

27:48

pioneers in some ways I would

27:50

just say the importance

27:53

of of purpose

27:55

, the importance of knowing that

27:57

when you get to wake up , you

28:00

choose what you want to do next .

28:02

So if you're tired of beating the same

28:04

drum over and over again , there's

28:07

so much more , there's

28:10

so many new drum beats

28:12

that you can create in different directions

28:14

in life to truly create

28:16

meaningful change and to have

28:18

that influence around

28:21

you . Like there's

28:23

not enough hours in the day for me to do what

28:26

I want to do now , but I know if

28:29

I needed to go in a different direction , I

28:31

could go in instantly and do

28:33

something new and still be

28:36

able to make big impact in that area . And

28:40

it kind of makes me excited

28:42

to know . You know , like my spinal cord

28:44

injury , you know it immediately

28:46

had me at a reset button , but

28:48

it also started a new chapter . And

28:51

you know , after you know , graduating from law school it was a new chapter . You

28:53

know , after you know , graduating from law school , it

28:55

was a new chapter . After falling

28:58

in love and finding the love of my

29:00

life , katie started a new chapter

29:02

. I got to immediately

29:04

become a father to her beautiful three-year-old

29:08

daughter and the next thing you know , katie

29:11

underwent in vitro fertilization

29:13

and

29:15

I became a dad from the beginning , and that was a new chapter

29:17

. It's just . Each and every chapter

29:20

of our lives can

29:22

begin something new , but it's up to you to

29:25

be that star , that

29:28

main character in it , and what you

29:30

do next . So , whatever

29:32

if you're 38 , or

29:34

if you're 70 , the

29:38

truth is that each and every

29:40

chapter that comes next , you

29:45

are the actor in it to decide what

29:47

happens next . With that next word

29:49

, the next sentence , that next page

29:51

, we are the narrator of our journey

29:54

.

29:55

This hour , there's been just so many gems that

29:57

you've dropped , not just in service

29:59

to and in support of persons

30:02

living with spinal cord injury , but those of us who

30:04

aren't . And one

30:06

thing I suspect that , had

30:09

that wave not changed , your trajectory

30:11

would have been part of your future , would have been this

30:13

desire , this drive

30:16

, this need , this responsibility

30:18

to mentor , and I know that you're

30:20

like you said there's always another

30:23

cool thing you're doing and you are doing something interesting

30:26

in the mentoring space .

30:27

We're creating a national peer mentoring

30:30

program to get to families as early

30:32

on as possible within

30:34

the critical unit , within the

30:36

inpatient setting

30:38

, and making sure that you

30:40

know just if the person that's

30:42

injured needs somebody , we're

30:45

there for them the second that they're ready

30:47

. Oftentimes you need to mentor the family

30:49

members as quickly as possible

30:51

to get them so that they're ready

30:54

to make that transition from

30:56

hospital to home , which is very

30:58

scary . I remember coming

31:01

home from the inpatient

31:03

hospital and I was

31:06

there within the hospital systems for

31:08

almost two and a half three months and

31:10

when I came home and they wheeled

31:12

me into my garage I

31:14

saw an old pair of cleats and a tennis

31:17

racket and that's when it hit me . The

31:20

life was going to be different from that moment on . I

31:22

really did not get it as much

31:24

when I was

31:26

still in the hospital . But

31:28

creating an international peer mentoring program , we're

31:31

going to try to get to families early on , to every

31:33

hospital , and also

31:35

to get technology to

31:38

families early on to every hospital and to get also to get technology . What ? What if we could

31:40

get a piece of technology into someone's mouth immediately after their injury

31:42

, to actually give them independence

31:45

back and to give them the ability

31:47

to control their environment , to communicate

31:49

with the world around them , to

31:51

be able to , to not just be in

31:54

that hospital bed staring up at the ceiling

31:56

, blinking once for yes and twice

31:58

for no ? What if , from day one

32:00

, the first week , we

32:03

can give people the ability to

32:05

not go down a road

32:07

of depression , which every single person

32:10

with a spinal cord injury gets a dose

32:12

of depression Like . It's

32:14

hard not to . It's the reality of the day . But

32:17

how can we give them the tools they need , the

32:19

mentors they need to

32:21

have a better fighting chance , to live

32:24

their best life and to not

32:26

be alone ? That's something I

32:28

would love to try my

32:30

hardest to give to the world and

32:33

something that , at least in this chapter , I'm

32:35

going to be fighting for . You know there's

32:38

just so many things that we're all doing that

32:40

are contributing , and Craig

32:42

Hospital . You know I

32:44

came out there because I brought

32:47

five families

32:49

to go adaptive skiing from around

32:51

the country and we came to

32:53

the Denver area and it's just like it

32:56

was a no brainer . I had to get out to Craig . We've

32:58

heard so much of the magic that happens

33:00

and the families that the lives that

33:02

you've changed , and being within your

33:04

walls it

33:07

made so much sense . It was such an incredible

33:09

place for healing to occur

33:11

and for people to

33:14

come together and learn and I put on

33:16

a support group when I was there and there

33:18

was like 60 families , like

33:21

it was just . It

33:23

was so beautiful to have a

33:25

touchpoint early on in those families'

33:28

journey and to hopefully say like

33:30

I had a part

33:32

in getting them in a new direction

33:34

. Craig helped have a part in getting them in a new direction . Craig

33:36

helped have a part in getting them in a new direction . So

33:38

it's just coming together , being

33:41

the matchmakers and actually doing

33:44

something together . It's like I'm excited

33:47

for us to do a lot together .

33:49

Well , I think that our futures

33:51

are bright in that respect

33:53

and , as we end , I just

33:55

wanted to say to you

33:57

that , as

34:00

a person who's done this journey

34:02

through different you know sort of a different lens

34:04

, a different set of , I'd say , absolute challenges

34:07

from a social , a political

34:09

and economic perspective , despite

34:12

, or maybe because of my comment

34:14

about fatigue that just hits you

34:16

every now and again , keep going

34:18

, because I was 38

34:20

at one point in my life and

34:23

at this ripe and still

34:25

ripening age of 66 , I still

34:27

feel like there's tons more to do . So

34:29

then , when we hit , when you hit 66 , you'll

34:32

listen to me saying this to you because I'll

34:34

be a lot older and I hope I'm still saying things

34:36

to you to say keep going . We got lots more rolling

34:38

to do . Josh , I want to thank you

34:40

. This has been just an honor , a privilege

34:42

and you know it's funny how life works

34:45

meeting you in a gym on the fourth floor at Craig

34:47

and a room full of families who come

34:49

together monthly to share a meal and catch

34:52

up with friends and work with both

34:54

our formal and less formal peer mentors

34:57

who are there . Who would have ever thought there'd

34:59

come a day that we'd be hanging out

35:01

in Washington DC , your home , where

35:03

you're doing fabulous work , and

35:05

having a chance just to share

35:07

some thoughts , and thank you for being

35:10

here with us today .

35:11

It was a pleasure to be here and you

35:13

know I'm a big believer that beautiful

35:16

people gravitate towards each other , so

35:18

we're doing good in the world and that good attracts

35:21

each other .

35:27

Wow , what an honor and privilege

35:29

it was to spend an hour

35:31

with Josh Basile , an amazing disability

35:33

rights advocate , and

35:36

I loved the line that

35:38

he said about being the hero in your own

35:40

story and didn't say

35:42

it in a way that look at me being the hero

35:44

in my own story , but recognizing his

35:47

personal power and agency

35:49

to take

35:52

what he called every chapter

35:54

and actually leverage the opportunity

35:56

for new challenges and fun . And

35:59

he's managed to do that beautifully , while

36:01

never , interestingly , giving

36:04

up the possibility of

36:06

hope for a cure , which is one

36:08

of the components of something that

36:10

we haven't talked about on this podcast

36:13

, namely the Craig recipe , and that

36:15

is what we think is that recipe that makes

36:17

Craig Hospital so special . What

36:19

he has learned over time

36:22

in terms of the implications

36:25

of each level of spinal

36:27

injury , opening a new world that

36:29

he's had to navigate transportation

36:31

, and does so beautifully . Employment

36:34

he's had to stitch together

36:37

and has a wonderful caregiver

36:40

. But the home health situation that is

36:42

quite a challenge for those

36:44

living with spinal cord and brain injuries or

36:46

any other kind of disability . And

36:48

certainly how he leverages

36:50

the accessibility that

36:53

already lives in technology

36:55

and will only continue to flourish

36:57

over time because of the genius of so

36:59

many people working in this space . And

37:02

then , if there's something that just really frosts

37:04

me and I will say it that way are

37:07

the ways that some of our public

37:09

programs work to keep people

37:11

locked into certain

37:14

levels of income and

37:16

also then make some things

37:18

as basic and as part

37:20

of life , as marriage literally

37:22

and pardon the pun inaccessible

37:25

to parts of the population or something

37:27

that we really do need to address at some

37:29

point . But what I'd say about

37:32

Josh , and in this wonderful interview

37:34

that just was the highlight

37:36

of it for me , is that his eternal

37:39

optimism in the face of all

37:41

sorts of challenges . He is a beautiful

37:43

, wonderful young man and

37:45

man . Are we both blessed as

37:48

a world and a country to have someone

37:50

who's done the kind of work , alongside all

37:52

other sorts of heroes in their own story

37:54

to remove barriers

37:57

, to break through barriers and to create

37:59

new possibilities for people living

38:01

with disabilities ? Interestingly

38:03

, when I think about what we do at Craig , it's

38:05

a perfect sort of bow on this

38:07

wonderful interview that we

38:09

had , or opportunity for a discussion , and

38:12

that is because that's what we do at Craig and that's

38:14

what this wonderful culture that

38:16

is buttressed by a ton

38:18

of courage , a ton of optimism and

38:21

a lot of systemic sorts of

38:23

structures that we've built to absolutely

38:26

fuel the ways that we break through

38:28

barriers to create opportunities

38:30

for independence , at the same time

38:32

recognizing that the work is never done . So

38:35

thank you again for joining us

38:37

at Unstoppable at Craig , and I look forward

38:39

to the next conversation we'll have as we continue

38:41

to explore what makes for great cultures

38:43

and , more importantly , who are

38:46

the people who are part of building those

38:48

great cultures .