0:00

A word from one of our

0:03

amazing sponsors, Quince. If you like

0:05

to treat yourself to something special

0:07

from time to time, but don't

0:09

want to spend a ton of money,

0:12

you want to check out Quince. It's

0:14

where I go for affordable

0:16

luxury. Quince offers a range

0:18

of high quality items at

0:20

prices within reach, like 100%

0:22

Mongolian cashmere sweaters from $50.

0:25

Washable silk tops and dresses,

0:27

organic cotton sweaters, and 14

0:29

carat gold jewelry. I get

0:32

so many compliments on my Mongolian

0:34

Kashmir sweater. I love it.

0:36

How did they keep their prices

0:38

so low? Quinns cuts out

0:41

the middleman and only works

0:43

with factories that use safe,

0:45

ethical and responsible manufacturing practices.

0:48

That's how they can keep their

0:50

prices 50 to 80% less than

0:52

similar brands. Give yourself the

0:54

luxury you deserve with quins.

0:57

Go to quins.com slash

0:59

Untangle for free shipping on

1:01

your order and 365 day

1:04

returns. That's Q-U-I-M-C-E-D-com slash

1:06

Untangle to get free

1:08

shipping and 365 day

1:10

returns. quins.com slash

1:12

Untangle. Imagine what's

1:14

possible Imagine what's

1:17

possible when learning doesn't get in the

1:19

way of life. At Capella University, our

1:21

game-changing flexpath learning format lets you set

1:23

your own deadline so you can learn

1:26

at a time and pace that works

1:28

for you. It's an education you can

1:30

tailor to your schedule. That means you

1:32

don't have to put your life on

1:35

hold to pursue your professional goals. Instead,

1:37

enjoy learning your way, an earning degree

1:39

without missing a beat. A different future

1:41

is closer than you think, with Capella

1:44

University. Learn more at Capella. ED Welcome

1:48

to Untangle. I'm Patricia Carpus.

1:51

Today's on-court guest is Dr.

1:53

Rick Hansen, a psychologist and

1:55

New York Times best-selling author

1:57

of several books, including the

1:59

book we... discuss in this

2:02

interview hard wiring happiness the

2:04

new brain science of contentment

2:06

calm and confidence. He shares

2:08

how we can hardwire our

2:10

brains for happiness using practices

2:13

that help us cultivate and

2:15

experience the good in our

2:17

lives while reducing our natural

2:19

negativity biases. He shares why

2:21

it's easier to ruminate over

2:24

negative feelings rather than vast

2:26

in the warmth of positive

2:28

feelings. Confusing, right? The negative

2:30

stuff is like Velcro. It

2:32

just sticks. But it doesn't

2:35

have to. He says we

2:37

can build our inner strengths

2:39

and capacity to override the

2:41

brain's habit of defaulting to

2:43

the negative, to pessimism. He

2:46

suggests a simple method that

2:48

uses the hidden power of

2:50

everyday experiences to build new

2:52

neural structures full of happiness,

2:54

love, confidence, and peace. Now

2:57

on to Dr. Rick Hansen.

2:59

Rick Hansen, welcome to Untangle.

3:01

I'm so happy to have

3:03

you on our show today.

3:05

Patricia, really? It's a pleasure. Oh,

3:08

I loved your book and I

3:10

want to know what inspired you

3:12

to begin researching how to hardwire

3:14

happiness. I guess this would be

3:16

your origin story. Once upon a

3:19

time, I was a little boy

3:21

and like a lot of little

3:23

kids. I knew things I couldn't

3:25

put into words, and one thing

3:27

I knew was that there was

3:30

a lot of unnecessary unhappiness around

3:32

me. My neighborhood, my school, I

3:34

could see the grown-ups, nothing horrible

3:36

but a lot of unnecessary tension,

3:38

bickering, hassle, and suffering, including aside

3:41

my own family. And in my

3:43

heart, my earliest memories is truly

3:45

a deep poignant, wistful, longing to

3:47

understand why and what to do

3:49

about it. And I kind of

3:52

set me on my way. And

3:54

then I landed in college at

3:56

the tailman at the 60s or

3:58

70s. at the height of the

4:00

human potential movement in California. I

4:02

caught that wave. That took me

4:05

into meditation in 1974 and a

4:07

knowledge of Eastern traditions, including the

4:09

one I've most trained in, which

4:11

is Buddhism. And then as I

4:13

became a psychologist, got a PhD,

4:16

right starting around 20 or so

4:18

years ago, I started my clinical

4:20

training about 30 or so years

4:22

ago. 20 years ago or so.

4:25

neuroscience began to explode. So

4:27

we have this coming together of

4:29

psychology, contemplative wisdom, and brain science,

4:31

but it really just gets to

4:34

the heart of interest me, which

4:36

is how to use the penetrating

4:38

insights of the great

4:40

spiritual traditions, turbocharged by modern

4:43

psychology and brain science, to offer

4:45

skillful means to people in the

4:47

trenches of real life to change

4:50

the causes of suffering. and to

4:52

grow the causes of happiness, love, and

4:54

wisdom. Oh, I love the way

4:56

you put that. I just want

4:58

to wind back a little bit

5:00

because it sounded like you were

5:02

an incredibly sensitive child, the way

5:04

that you were describing your observations

5:06

of seeing all of this unnecessary

5:09

unhappiness and tension. Were you a

5:11

sensitive child and how you observed

5:13

the world? I think I was perceptive

5:15

and my temperament is really pretty

5:17

calm and even keel. I would

5:19

say actually it's very interesting for

5:21

people in general to reflect back

5:23

on the things they knew in

5:26

their bones intuitively in their body

5:28

when they were young and I

5:30

think a lot of people would

5:32

say that when they were young

5:34

and even now as adults that

5:36

there is this recognition that there's

5:38

just a lot of unnecessary stress

5:40

tension hassle conflict on happiness.

5:43

Yeah. It's amazing that that is what

5:45

set you off on your path in life.

5:47

And that's what I think is

5:49

so beautiful about this. And I

5:51

do like the way you talk

5:54

about the beginning of neuroscience and

5:56

psychology and Buddhism and how they

5:58

all intersect. So you studied. those

6:00

different areas and then you turn

6:02

that into how do we create

6:04

more happiness in our lives yeah

6:07

so when you talk about like

6:09

in the intro of your book

6:11

you say I'll show you how

6:14

to turn good moments into a

6:16

great brain full of confidence ease

6:18

comfort self-worth will you talk a

6:21

little bit about that how that

6:23

works so to a great context

6:25

here is a bit of a

6:28

framework especially when we're approaching this

6:30

in something of a meditative way,

6:32

I think that there basically are

6:35

three ways to practice for the

6:37

month. The first of the three

6:39

great ways is the foundation, which

6:42

is simply to be with what's

6:44

there. Feel the feelings, experience, experience,

6:46

experience, hopefully with a quality of

6:49

acceptance and curiosity and self-compassion, hopefully

6:51

with a sense of untangling the

6:53

threads of experience, deconstructing experience, sensing

6:55

down to what's younger or vulnerable

6:58

or fundamental. In the process of

7:00

being with your own mind, it

7:02

often changes, but you're not trying

7:05

to change it directly. Okay, that's

7:07

very important. But it's not the

7:09

only way to practice. The second

7:12

great way to practice is to

7:14

prevent or decrease or abandon entirely

7:16

with unwholesome, problematic, unwise, painful, harmful,

7:19

and so forth, like releasing tension

7:21

from the body, venting feelings. releasing

7:23

thoughts that are not helpful, abandoning

7:26

on wholesome desires, etc. And then

7:28

the third grade with a practice

7:30

is to cultivate the good. It's

7:33

to grow compassion, mindfulness, gratitude, grit,

7:35

resilience, self-worth, confidence, happiness, happiness, to

7:37

grow the good. All three are

7:39

important. My book, Federalary Happiness, in

7:42

particular, focuses on the third of

7:44

those, the cultivation aspects of practice

7:46

in Sanskrit, but it's in the

7:49

larger context. So that's sad. And

7:51

I see as a psychologist and

7:53

also a guy who's lived in

7:56

the real world on the business

7:58

background. been married a long time,

8:00

raised now to adult kids. And

8:03

if we're going to deal with the

8:05

long road of life, we need

8:07

to have resources inside ourselves. That's

8:09

what we draw to deal with

8:12

ordinary challenges. This will be drawn

8:14

to pursue our opportunities and resources

8:16

also are what we draw upon

8:18

to get through real adversity, including

8:21

trauma. And also we draw on

8:23

resources to cultivate awakening. So what

8:25

are those awakening factors? What are

8:27

those inner resources? And there are

8:30

things like... positive emotions, secure attachments,

8:32

self-worth, commitment to social justice, empathy,

8:34

muscles, in a sense, inner strengths

8:36

of various kinds. So then the

8:39

question becomes, and I'm a very

8:41

practical guy, how do you grow

8:43

those inner strengths? How do you

8:45

actually acquire more resources over time?

8:47

And then that takes us right

8:49

into the neuropsychology of learning.

8:51

And the way we acquire

8:54

inner resources, like gratitude or

8:56

compassion or wisdom, is in two steps,

8:58

necessarily in two steps. First step is

9:00

to experience what you want to grow.

9:02

And the second necessary step is to

9:05

turn that experience into a lasting change

9:07

in the body, principally in the nervous

9:10

system and the brain. So lots and

9:12

lots of people are good at

9:14

the first step. They're good at

9:16

having beneficial experiences, but they don't

9:18

pay much attention to actually turning

9:20

that experience into a lasting change

9:22

in your brain. And that's what

9:24

I've super focused on in hardware and

9:27

happiness and more gym. I'm sure we'll

9:29

talk about how to do that. But

9:31

yes, simple. Stay with the experience for

9:34

a breath or two or three. Second,

9:36

really feel it in your body, whatever

9:38

you're trying to grow. And third, be

9:40

aware, be mindful of what's

9:42

rewarding or meaningful in these

9:45

strains. Those three fundamental factors.

9:47

Duration. The longer we experience

9:49

it increases the encoding and

9:51

consolidating of an experience of

9:53

the nervous system. Second, whole-bodied

9:55

experiencing the richer the experience the

9:58

more it's in your emotion. the

10:00

more senior sensations, the more memory

10:02

traces is going to live behind.

10:05

And third, the more you

10:07

tune into what's rewarding or

10:09

meaningful about it, that gets

10:11

neurotransfiners like dopamine and neuropone

10:14

going, which really turn that

10:16

experience into a keeper. So

10:18

its residues really sink into

10:20

you. And then increasingly, you take

10:23

those inner strengths with you

10:25

wherever you go. Yeah. just stepping

10:27

back to the three ways to

10:29

practice because I think all this

10:31

makes a lot of sense and

10:34

I want to also understand is

10:36

how similar is this to positive

10:38

psychology and how different it

10:40

is. I'm also curious, I

10:43

mean it almost sounds like you

10:45

would have to figure out a

10:47

way to balance out decreasing what's

10:50

unwholesome or what's causing you

10:52

pain or stress or suffering before

10:54

you move into cultivating

10:56

the experiential part of what

10:58

you're talking about. Yeah, you're exactly right.

11:00

And to be crystal clear, and it's

11:02

why I set up that framework. Yeah.

11:05

Meast of practice. First and foremost, we

11:07

need to feel this there and nothing.

11:09

And what I'm saying is about turning

11:11

away from what's painful or turning a

11:13

blind eye to it or doing a

11:15

spiritual bypass. Take it to you make

11:17

it. Rose colored glasses, etc. etc.

11:19

etc. nothing what I'm saying

11:21

is about that. But what

11:23

I am saying is that

11:25

frankly I think that that

11:27

stand of in some ways

11:29

inert witnessing, passive witnessing, mindfulness

11:31

alone has become overvalued and

11:33

it's a mistaken understanding of

11:35

the spiritual traditions and it's

11:37

certainly a mistaken understanding of

11:39

the body. At the end

11:41

of the day we are not just

11:44

mindful of the body, we are

11:46

bodyful of mine. It is the

11:48

body that is producing. the mind

11:50

certainly inside the natural frame without

11:52

referring yet to anything supernatural or

11:55

transcendental. So if we want to

11:57

help things get better we actually need

11:59

to to I'm

20:36

excited about our new sponsor, Hungry

20:38

Route. I've learned so much about

20:40

nutrition from our untangled guests. But

20:42

when it comes to preparing great

20:45

meals that meet all of my

20:47

needs, no meat, no gluten, low

20:49

sugar, enough protein, anti-inflammatory, Yeah,

23:19

it's so true what you're

23:21

saying. So many people do

23:23

feel empty and they also

23:25

feel negative. You also talk

23:27

about in the book that

23:29

negative thinking is like Velcro

23:32

and like what you're saying

23:34

about almost like attaching a

23:36

practice to the cultivation of

23:38

what's good. But I do

23:40

wonder if everyone has the

23:42

capacity for this or if

23:45

there's some people that are

23:47

just in such dark and

23:49

negative places. I mean, we've

23:51

all met people like that.

23:53

And I'm wondering if it's

23:55

a desire to change that

23:58

has to take place or

24:00

does everyone have the capacity

24:02

for this type of shift

24:04

in behavior and attitude? Yeah.

24:06

Well, there's a famous joke in my therapist. How many

24:08

therapists does it take to change a light bulb? Only

24:11

one. The light bulb has to want to change. Right.

24:13

Right. Yeah. At a fundamental level, what is interesting is

24:15

when you start trying to help yourself, or frankly, or

24:17

you start trying to help other people as a coach

24:19

or a therapist or a parent and educator or a

24:21

manager, or a teacher, including a mindfulness, when you

24:23

start trying to help other people. cultivate

24:26

what's beneficial inside themselves, you start

24:28

running into some very interesting blocks.

24:30

And one of the benefits, actually,

24:33

this approach is that it surfaces

24:35

those blocks. So let's suppose that

24:37

a person actually is the like

24:39

well that wants a change, that

24:41

they really do want to start

24:44

where they are, always authentically, and

24:46

develop more of whatever is wise

24:48

and helpful. They want to develop

24:50

more skills with dealing with other

24:52

people. That's a form of learning

24:54

as well. That's a form of

24:57

cultivation too, to become more skillful

24:59

with your partner, your children, co-workers,

25:01

and so forth. Or let's suppose

25:03

a person says, I'm just way

25:05

too rattled by stuff and I

25:08

want to develop more of an

25:10

unshakable core inside myself of that

25:12

anonymity or inner strength and inner

25:14

peace and happiness. I want to

25:16

grow that. All right. So if

25:18

a person has that intention, fundamentally

25:21

every brain has the capacity

25:23

to learn. every single brain has

25:26

that capacity to learn. And Crock's issue

25:28

is, does the person want to

25:30

do it? Even really old people

25:32

might get asked to question people

25:34

in their 90s. The brain has

25:36

this fundamental capacity that's called neuroplasticity.

25:38

A lot of mine for me,

25:40

just a bit of things I

25:42

guess, would motivate me about this

25:45

is a very old school take

25:47

that at first, life is often

25:49

hard, and we need to have

25:51

resources inside to deal with it. And

25:53

second, we've got a brain, as you alluded

25:55

to a moment ago, that is designed by

25:57

Mother Nature to be like Velcro for Bad.

26:00

experiences, but Teflon for good ones,

26:02

because that's what kept our ancestors

26:04

alive in really harsh conditions. Today,

26:06

in a war zone, a real

26:08

war zone, the negativity bias, the

26:11

scientists put it, of the brain,

26:13

is a useful thing. But for

26:15

most people, the evolved negativity bias

26:17

of the brain, like Velcro for

26:20

the bad Teflon for the good,

26:22

is not a good thing. It

26:24

creates a lot of needless suffering

26:26

and a lot of needless conflict

26:28

with it. So in a very

26:31

hard-headed, old-school kind of way, for

26:33

me, when there's a recognition here

26:35

that first we have to grow

26:37

resources inside ourselves, and second, if

26:40

we tilt toward beneficial, useful, usually

26:42

enjoyable experiences, we're simply leveling the

26:44

playing field that Mother Nature has

26:46

handed to us. Yeah. Can you

26:49

change someone else? And I'm sure

26:51

that... people that are listening and

26:53

ourselves we know either parents or

26:55

friends people that are just constantly

26:57

seeing the glass half empty and

27:00

is there a way to ease

27:02

someone into a shift in attitude?

27:04

That's a great question. I think

27:06

first and foremost we need to

27:09

start with that first way to

27:11

practice which is to be with

27:13

the pain of the other person.

27:15

and to really listen and give

27:18

the gift of a deep listening

27:20

there and including without playing therapist

27:22

with people who haven't invited us

27:24

into that role that kind of

27:26

uncovering and a receptivity and as

27:29

a quick signbar to be able

27:31

to be really wide open with

27:33

empathy and compassion to another person

27:35

we have to grow the resource

27:38

inside ourselves of autonomy and equanimity.

27:40

Otherwise we get blown away by

27:42

that other person. in the saying,

27:44

proverb, fences make for good neighbors.

27:47

So like growing those inner strengths

27:49

of autonomy and energy. anonymity inside

27:51

ourselves, then we can become truly

27:53

more receptive and loving to other

27:55

people. So then I have found

27:58

that actually when people understand a

28:00

little bit that if they want

28:02

to become, let's say, happier or

28:04

they want to become more resourced

28:07

so that they can cope with

28:09

what's bothering them or reflecting them

28:11

or the real tough conditions in

28:13

the real world that they're dealing

28:16

with. When people here... that, oh

28:18

wow, we're talking about changing your

28:20

brain for the better. And the

28:22

way the brain changes for the

28:24

better is in this fundamental two-stage

28:27

process. First, you have to experience

28:29

what you want to grow. Second,

28:31

you've got to internalize it. You've

28:33

got to slow it down and

28:36

help it sink into the nervous

28:38

system itself. That brainizing, apologizing of

28:40

the bottom line here is really

28:42

persuasive to many, many people. It's

28:45

scientifically grounded. It's scientifically grounded, it's

28:47

true. grounded in the body, it's

28:49

mechanical, so people get, oh yeah,

28:51

that's really how it works. And

28:53

then if people start trying to

28:56

do it, they're willing, if they're

28:58

there like, well, who wants to

29:00

change. And if they're willing to

29:02

take half a dozen times in

29:05

a day, less than half a

29:07

minute at a time to recognize

29:09

a good fact, help it become

29:11

a good experience, and then third,

29:14

take that experience into themselves. I

29:16

have truly found again and again,

29:18

and I've had many people report

29:20

to me, that when others are

29:22

willing to do that simple practice,

29:25

they feel different and better at

29:27

the end of the first day

29:29

they try. And you don't even

29:31

have to meditate. This isn't a

29:34

meditation thing. This is a moment.

29:36

Yeah. Technically in a meditative language,

29:38

it's like a micro concentration practice.

29:40

It's a micro absorption practice where

29:43

for... five, ten, twenty, thirty or

29:45

more seconds in a row, you

29:47

take as your object of meditation

29:49

in a sense this beneficial experience

29:51

that you're sinking into and you're

29:54

helping that sink into you as

29:56

you sink into it. Yeah, that's

29:58

exactly, but that's about it. Yeah.

30:00

You can apply it as well

30:03

during meditation or during other practices

30:05

like yoga or Pilates are walking

30:07

the dog or hanging out with

30:09

your granddaughter that you could use

30:12

it in those settings too. And

30:14

certainly during formal meditative practice, you

30:16

can use these methods to really

30:18

help the fruits of your practice

30:20

sink into you and transform you

30:23

from the inside out. Oh, I love what

30:25

you're saying about letting it just sink

30:27

in because I think part of our

30:30

very, very busy culture and we talk

30:32

about autopilot a lot on this podcast,

30:35

it just seems to come up. And

30:37

this idea of just stopping and letting

30:39

what's good sink in, I think will

30:41

resonate with a lot of people. It

30:44

certainly does with me. You mentioned also

30:46

that, I think you use this language,

30:48

the magic cure, is continuing

30:50

to learn in order to continually grow.

30:53

And can you talk a bit about

30:55

that? And I'm guessing that has something

30:57

also to do with neuroplasticity, but I

31:00

love to hear what you think of

31:02

that. From a really practical perspective,

31:04

if you think about it,

31:06

okay, we're interested in healing,

31:08

we're interested in development and

31:10

growth, whether it's in our work,

31:13

our family, or... personal relationships

31:15

or our inner world, we

31:17

want to heal, we want

31:19

to develop, we want to

31:21

progress down the path of

31:23

interest of self-actualization or awakening.

31:25

All right, guess what? That's about

31:27

learning in the broadest sense. healing,

31:29

development, growth, transformation, awakening. It's all

31:32

about learning. learning fundamentally. So if

31:34

you think about it, what we

31:36

want to develop inside ourselves is

31:39

one thing or another, like greater

31:41

happiness or greater calm or greater

31:44

insight or greater love. We want

31:46

to grow that inside ourselves. Those

31:48

things we're trying to grow inside

31:51

ourselves are like superpowers because I read

31:53

a lot of comics when I was a

31:55

kid. But then the question is, but the

31:57

how of learning that you and our

31:59

talk talking about here, this two-stage

32:02

process. First, you experience it, and

32:04

then second, you've got to internalize

32:06

it in the body. That is

32:09

the superpower of superpowers. This is

32:11

the superpower we draw upon to

32:13

grow the rest of them. And

32:16

I think a lot about just

32:18

a very simple idea, which is

32:20

at the end of any given

32:23

day, when you go to bed,

32:25

are you a little happier, a

32:27

little wiser, a little more peaceful,

32:30

a little more loving than you

32:32

were, when you first woke up?

32:34

That's your learning curve over the

32:37

course of the day, your growth

32:39

curve. And that little increment, where

32:41

you are at the end of

32:44

the day, compared to where you

32:46

are when you first woke up,

32:48

that little bit of beneficial change

32:51

accumulated across the days and months

32:53

and years of your life makes

32:55

all the difference in the world.

32:58

What is actually happening in your

33:00

brain when... you're doing this. That's

33:02

very interesting. You're actually changing it.

33:05

Just a list of number of

33:07

mechanisms. There's a classic saying that

33:09

kind of summarizes a lot of

33:12

this. Neurons that fire together, wire

33:14

together. Literally, new connections form between

33:16

neurons in your brain, connections call

33:19

synapses. So fundamentally the learning process

33:21

inside your brain, new connections are

33:23

forming, existing connections get sensitized. more

33:26

blood starts moving to parts of

33:28

your brain that do important things,

33:30

literally thickening layers of cortex in

33:33

your brain. For example, meditators, long-term

33:35

meditators, have measurably thicker cortex in

33:37

key regions of the brain that

33:40

are involved with steadiness of mind,

33:42

as well as really tuning into

33:44

yourself in a very, very deep

33:47

way. Also, there are changes in

33:49

the expression of genes. epigenetic processes,

33:51

they're called, inside the cell bodies

33:54

of neurons, changes in brain wipes,

33:56

changes in ebbs and flows of

33:58

chemotherapy or oxytocin. and then dopamine,

34:01

natural opioids. The brain

34:03

is designed to be changed by

34:05

our experiences. Problem is, it's

34:07

vulnerable for being changed for the

34:10

worse due to the negativity bias.

34:12

And so for me, the takeaway

34:14

point is to be skilful multiple

34:16

times a day to help the

34:18

brain change for the better from

34:20

the inside out. It's funny because

34:22

I was just thinking that if

34:24

there were one takeaway from all

34:26

the richness of what you're sharing

34:28

here, it's that developing this habit

34:31

of taking in the good as

34:33

you go about your day and

34:35

really learning to be skillful about

34:37

that. Do you think that there's

34:39

a role for gratitude in this

34:41

practice as well, or is that

34:43

part of taking in the good

34:45

is recognizing joy, recognizing gratitude, being

34:47

able to forgive? Oh yeah, I

34:49

think that gratitude is one of

34:51

the inner strengths, one of the

34:53

inner resources we want to grow, that

34:56

stance of thankfulness. Because I've written and

34:58

taught about this for a long

35:00

time, I found that it's easier for

35:02

people to unwittingly trivialize and reduce this

35:05

to something like, oh yeah, I need

35:07

to smell the roses. Well that's

35:09

really good, but I'm talking about something

35:11

much more profound and far-reaching than that.

35:14

So for example, to deal with real

35:16

issues of life. We need to

35:18

require resilience. A resilience is not

35:20

just about surviving the worst day

35:23

of your life, it's about thriving

35:25

every day of your life. So

35:27

that sense of determination and emotional

35:30

balance and grit is a really

35:32

important thing to grow. And that's

35:34

not about gratitude. And another

35:36

thing to grow inside ourselves

35:38

honestly is healthy remorse, to

35:41

really let it land when we've

35:43

acted partially with another person. or

35:45

unskilledfully, or we've indulged our desires

35:47

in ways that are problematic. And

35:49

it's important to kind of register,

35:51

oh, what row? I just messed

35:53

up here and I need to

35:56

learn that lesson. That's not about

35:58

gratitude either, for example, or... subtle

36:00

insights, the insight into the impermanence

36:02

of experience, or what stillness feels

36:05

like underneath it all. That too

36:07

is something to internalize and take

36:09

into ourselves. There's a traditional saying,

36:12

the mind takes its shape from

36:14

what it repeatedly rests upon for

36:16

better or worse. And the modern

36:19

update would be your brain takes

36:21

its shape from what your mind

36:24

repeatedly rests upon for better or

36:26

worse. For me, it boils down

36:28

to something very simple. What shape

36:31

do you want to take? Who

36:33

do you want to be? Who

36:35

do you want to become? Not

36:38

out of chasing pleasure in some

36:40

silly hedonistic sense, but including the

36:42

magnificence of the spiritual process. Who

36:45

do you want to become? Who

36:47

do you want to become is

36:49

what you've always been, but which

36:52

was obscured, but even that is

36:54

a fundamental change. And then knowing.

36:56

who you want to be, what

36:59

you want to help yourself grow

37:01

into being a little bit more

37:04

every day, then you rest your

37:06

mind upon that. And that is

37:08

really wide open and it goes

37:11

much more broadly than selling a

37:13

roses. Yeah. Absolutely. Is your mind

37:15

the witnessing part versus your brain?

37:18

I know a lot of people

37:20

are curious about what the difference

37:22

is between the mind and the

37:25

brain. Yeah, exactly. It's a key

37:27

question, right? It depends how people

37:29

use the word. In the scientific

37:32

community, mind equals information. It's crazy,

37:34

right? Yeah. The nervous system, it's

37:36

evolved to represent information. and to

37:39

for example enable the motor systems

37:41

of our ancient ancestors to communicate

37:44

information with their century systems. Smells

37:46

good, swim forward, smells bad, uh-oh,

37:48

swim backward, and so that's communication.

37:51

And so that's what the nervous

37:53

system does and words like mental

37:55

or cognition or thought have to

37:58

do with flows of information. that

38:00

the material processes of the

38:02

nervous system and the immaterial,

38:04

but still natural processes of

38:06

information flows in the nervous

38:09

system, the ways in which

38:11

that becomes an experience, that

38:13

is still a great mystery,

38:15

whether it's the experience of

38:17

humans or squirrels, cats, mice,

38:19

lizards. Who knows? The ways

38:22

in which phenomenology or

38:24

experience manifest, that's still

38:26

a scientific mystery. I'm

38:28

taken by traditional Tibetan

38:30

saying, one of them

38:32

is moments of awakening

38:34

many times a day,

38:36

and the other saying

38:38

relates to it, sudden

38:40

awakening, gradual cultivation,

38:43

sudden awakening. And that

38:45

process of cultivation

38:47

is... what we mainly talked about

38:49

here, and I think of it

38:51

as very, no one can stop

38:54

you from cultivating a little bit

38:56

more happiness, love, and wisdom

38:58

every day. No one can stop

39:01

you from doing that inside

39:03

the sanctuary of your own

39:06

mind. That's a beautiful thing,

39:08

but it also takes us

39:10

to that responsibility. It's on

39:13

us. Engage that process of

39:15

cultivation. and awakening every day.

39:17

I am so grateful for you giving

39:20

us all of these great

39:22

insights and tools and steps.

39:24

Thank you so much for

39:26

being here today, Rick. Thank

39:28

you. Very much. Thanks for

39:30

being with us today. His book

39:32

is available at all major

39:34

booksellers or you can visit

39:37

his website at Rick hansen.net

39:39

to see what he's up

39:41

to. And don't forget to

39:44

check out your free 30

39:46

days with the meditation studio

39:48

app. Go to choose muse.com/meditation

39:51

studio. As always, we love

39:53

hearing from you. Email us

39:55

with ideas or suggestions, comments,

39:58

whatever you're feeling. At Untangle,

40:00

at choose muse. Have a

40:03

great

40:06

week

40:09

and

40:11

we will

40:15

see you

40:19

next time. are made

40:22

with recycled materials. From

40:24

essential infrastructure to important

40:27

innovations, America's recycling companies

40:29

provide the materials that

40:32

power our infrastructure and

40:34

strengthen our economy. Want

40:37

to know more? Learn

40:39

how America's essential infrastructure

40:42

and important innovations are

40:44

made with recycled materials

40:47

at recycled materials.org.