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1:48

He's the director of the

1:50

International Heart and Lung Institute

1:52

in Palm Springs, California, and

1:54

the founder and director of

1:56

the Center for Restorative Medicine

1:58

in Palm Springs. and Santa

2:00

Barbara. He was previously a

2:02

cardiothoracic surgeon. He's also a

2:05

New York Times best-selling author

2:07

of several books. The one

2:09

we discussed today is the

2:11

gut brain paradox, improve your

2:14

mood, clear brain fog, and

2:16

reverse disease by healing your

2:18

microbiome. In this conversation, he

2:20

discusses the profound connection between

2:23

the gut and the brain,

2:25

emphasizing how gut bacteria influence

2:27

our thoughts, feelings, and overall

2:29

health. He shares the importance

2:32

of the microbiome and explains

2:34

how leaky gut can lead

2:36

to various health issues, including

2:38

depression. The good news is

2:41

that he offers practical advice

2:43

on improving gut health through

2:45

diet and lifestyle changes. He

2:47

also delves into dietary recommendations

2:50

and emphasizes the importance of

2:52

personalized nutrition and the role

2:54

of specific foods. in managing

2:56

inflammation and autoimmune responses. There

2:58

are so many rich takeaways

3:01

in this interview. As always,

3:03

we're Untangle the podcast from

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3:16

Dr. Stephen Gendri. Dr.

3:19

Stephen Gundry, it is great to

3:22

have you on Untangle today. Thank

3:24

you for being with us. Thanks

3:27

Patricia, thanks for having me.

3:29

Heard about your books and

3:31

read them for quite a

3:33

long time, so excited to

3:35

hear more detail and to

3:37

get the words straight from

3:39

you. But this last book,

3:42

the gut brain paradox, was

3:44

super interesting because it's about

3:46

the profound and intimate connection

3:48

between the gut and the

3:50

brain. and how they message

3:52

one another with a lot

3:54

of information about how our

3:57

gut bacteria, the microbiome, is

3:59

driving. thoughts and our feelings

4:01

and our mental emotional and

4:03

physical health. And that's a pretty

4:05

big statement. I think people are

4:08

probably surprised to hear that they're

4:10

not incomplete control. Their brains

4:12

are not incomplete control. So

4:15

I want you to talk a little bit

4:17

about that, of course, but first, tell us

4:19

how you got into this work and what

4:21

inspires you to... do this and to write

4:23

all these books and discover new

4:26

things all the time that may

4:28

even contradict some of the things

4:30

that you've discovered before. That would

4:32

take the entire podcast, but the clip

4:34

notes in my life. I was Chief

4:37

Professor and Chairman of Cardiothorastic

4:39

Surgery at Loma Linda University

4:41

for many years, and I

4:43

was a famous heart surgeon

4:45

that people would seek out

4:47

when nobody had any other

4:49

options. I'd take on impossible

4:51

cases. And I met my life change, oh

4:53

gosh, 30 years ago now, when I met a

4:55

fellow I call Big Ed, who was 48 years

4:58

old from Miami, who had

5:00

inoperable coronary artery disease. All

5:02

of his blood vessels were clogged

5:04

up. You couldn't put stents in

5:07

them, you couldn't do bypasses because

5:09

there wasn't any place to land

5:11

things. And Big Ed had gone

5:13

around the country looking for other

5:16

idiots like myself to operate on

5:18

him. And there's a few of

5:20

us, and everybody turned down. And

5:22

he spent about six months doing

5:24

this. He arrived at Loma

5:27

Linda with his angiogram, the

5:29

carotiac catheterization of his heart

5:31

from six months earlier. And

5:33

I looked at his angiogram. I

5:36

said, you know, I'd love to help

5:38

you, but everybody's right. There's nothing I

5:40

can do. They can do. Sorry. And

5:42

he says, well, yeah, that's what everybody

5:44

says. But let me tell you, I've

5:47

been on a diet. And I've lost

5:49

45 pounds. Now the reason he's called Big Ed

5:51

is when I met him he was 265 pounds.

5:53

So he had what's over 300 pounds. And he

5:56

says when I've gone to a health food store

5:58

and I'm taking a bunch of supplements. and Get

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or call 1-800-R-X or 1-800-545. So

31:03

any fermented food, kombucha,

31:05

low sugar kombucha, Americans hate

31:07

bitter sour stuff. So

31:09

our fermented foods are loaded

31:11

with sugar, but there

31:13

are low sugar varieties. Water

31:15

kefir is another way

31:17

to do it. Here's the

31:19

best trick for fermented

31:21

foods. Vinegars, vinegars are fermented

31:23

foods and it turns

31:25

out vinegar is acetic acid

31:27

and acetic acid is

31:29

one of these short chain

31:31

fatty acids that our

31:33

gut bacteria absolutely positively need

31:35

to make all these

31:37

communication systems. And I'm actually

31:39

the inventor of the

31:41

fake cola where you put

31:43

balsamic vinegar and sparkling

31:45

water and it's an easy

31:47

easy way to put

31:49

fermented foods into you. Number

31:51

three, and equally as

31:53

important, we used to have

31:55

a wonderful defense system

31:58

against these plant compounds, arbex.

32:00

They love to eat lectins. Believe it

32:02

or not, there are bacteria that

32:04

love to eat gluten. There are

32:06

bacteria that love to eat oxalates.

32:09

They're mostly gone because you mentioned

32:11

we've been inundated with

32:14

antibiotics. Glyphusate Roundup

32:16

is an antibiotic. It

32:18

specifically targets the

32:20

feel-good hormone-making bacteria

32:22

that tryptophans serotonin

32:24

pathway. They're gone. So we

32:27

can seal leaky gut. But if

32:29

you... keeps wallowing razor blades like

32:31

lectins like oxalate. You'll just

32:33

turn it right back up. Well,

32:36

those are the things. Okay, so how

32:38

do I know, or how do we know if

32:40

we have leaky gut? So

32:42

there's a spectrum. There's people

32:44

that are generally healthy, but

32:47

maybe have a little bit

32:49

of heart disease, genetic, little

32:51

bit of arthritis, age, and

32:54

then there's Parkinson's and all

32:56

time. This whole row of...

32:58

spectrum, but how do we

33:00

know if we have leaky

33:03

gut and does leaky gut

33:05

impact everything along that

33:07

spectrum? Yes. Okay, but you

33:09

do different things depending

33:12

on... In my last book, gut

33:14

check, this one comes as a

33:16

shock to almost all women.

33:19

Osteopenia osteoporosis is caused

33:21

by leaky gut, by

33:23

LPSs leaking from the

33:26

leaky gut. This was a

33:28

shock to all my men patients

33:30

with a big prostate. Men assume

33:32

your prostate gets big as you

33:34

get older. No, actually

33:36

caused by bacteria translocation

33:39

from the wall of the gut

33:41

into the prostate. And I used

33:43

to have a big prostate anymore.

33:46

Why? Because I don't have leaky

33:48

gut anymore. Women with endometriosis

33:50

should realize that their

33:52

endometriosis is caused by

33:54

leaky gut. I have

33:56

a gynecologist now who with

33:58

every woman with... metriosis, hands them

34:01

my book, and their endometriosis

34:03

resolves. I wish I was

34:05

making this up. It sounds

34:07

crazy. If you asked me

34:09

this 30 years ago, I

34:11

would have put me in

34:13

an assain asylum like Samawice.

34:15

But all of these things

34:18

all stem from leaky gut.

34:20

Coronary artery disease comes from

34:22

inflammation caused by leaky gut.

34:24

That's how big ed reversed

34:26

is coronary artery disease. I

34:28

mean, I know, it's amazing.

34:30

It's preposterous. It is preposterous

34:32

and I don't know if

34:34

it's scary is the right

34:37

word, but what makes it

34:39

so complicated is you have

34:41

different diet suggestions for different

34:43

people, even though their conditions

34:45

may all stem from leaky

34:47

gut. So I don't really

34:49

know whether I should eat

34:51

spinach or not. Like, I

34:53

love spinach. Interestingly enough, spinach

34:55

has a lectern cold and

34:58

aqua corn. And early on

35:00

in my experience, I noticed

35:02

that a lot of my

35:04

women with MS ate a

35:06

lot of spinach. And it

35:08

wasn't until we had the

35:10

tests for the aqua corn

35:12

and spinach that we realized

35:14

that a lot of these

35:16

people react to the aqua

35:19

corn and spinach. And when

35:21

we took spinach away from

35:23

them, along with other things,

35:25

they're MS resolved. Resolve. This

35:27

is exactly what I mean.

35:29

How do we know which

35:31

do you have? test. You

35:33

take away the list and

35:35

don't eat these things and

35:37

see what happens to you.

35:40

Let me give you a

35:42

personal example that I published.

35:44

Years ago when we started

35:46

treating autoimmune disease, we did

35:48

autoimmune tests on all of

35:50

us in the office and

35:52

my administrator comes running in

35:54

and she said, doc, you've

35:56

got lupus. And I go,

35:59

lupus, come on. She says,

36:01

yeah, you're positive for anti-nuclear

36:03

antibody, which is one of

36:05

the markers for Olympus. And

36:07

I said, well, that's. very

36:09

interesting. I'm always experimenting with

36:11

food and my father's side

36:13

of the family, my father

36:15

had horrible psoriasis, he was

36:17

on methotrexate and immunosuppressant for

36:20

51 years, so was my

36:22

hand. So very strong positive

36:24

history and there is a

36:26

genetic component to autoimmune disease.

36:28

It's small but there's a

36:30

real one. So I said,

36:32

huh, that's interesting, okay. So

36:34

I said I'm gonna... straighten

36:36

arrow, I'm going to follow

36:38

my rules for three weeks

36:41

and we'll retest it. Sure

36:43

enough, three weeks later I'm

36:45

negative for anti-nuclear antibody. I

36:47

go, that's pretty interesting. So

36:49

a few years ago we

36:51

were finishing the editing on

36:53

one of my bestsellers the

36:55

longevity paradox in New York

36:57

City on Friday and we

37:00

didn't finish. And I said,

37:02

well what the heck, I'll

37:04

stay the weekend and we'll

37:06

finish up on Monday and

37:08

I'll fly home. So I

37:10

said, hey, I got a

37:12

weekend to kill. My wife

37:14

wasn't with me. I wonder

37:16

if I can get my

37:18

anti-nuclear antibody going again. So

37:21

I cheated. I had bread.

37:23

I had pizza. I had

37:25

tomatoes. I had milk beans.

37:27

And I came home. We

37:29

tested me. I'm positive for

37:31

anti-nuclear antibody. In fact, pretty

37:33

high. I go, this is

37:35

really cool. I wonder how

37:37

fast I can turn it

37:39

off. So I waited a

37:42

week. I put blinders on,

37:44

I ate perfectly. In one

37:46

week, my inner nuclear antibody

37:48

was negative. Now what does

37:50

that teach me? It teaches

37:52

me that even I can

37:54

produce leaky gut by a

37:56

weekend of purposely swallowing razor

37:58

blades. But I've got a

38:00

pretty doggone good microbiome and

38:03

I've got a pretty good

38:05

wall of my gut and

38:07

I can seal it up

38:09

and stop. this activation of

38:11

my immune system pretty quickly.

38:13

That doesn't happen with most

38:15

folks, but we can spot

38:17

it. We test leaky gut

38:19

on my patient. every three

38:22

months, we check their gut

38:24

microbiome diversity when we need

38:26

to, and we can watch

38:28

this when they experiment with

38:30

food. So it's personalized medicine

38:32

at the highest order. So

38:34

let me ask you a

38:36

question. So let's say someone

38:38

has been diagnosed, this is

38:40

actually my partner was diagnosed,

38:43

he's in his 60s with

38:45

rheumatoid arthritis, never had it

38:47

before. just crazy. They put

38:49

him on prednisome methotrexate and

38:51

then umera, three drugs. Yeah.

38:53

And does he have leaky

38:55

gut? Absolutely has leaky gut.

38:57

He doesn't have any other

38:59

like no heart problems, no

39:01

prostate, nothing else, but you're

39:04

saying he has leaky gut.

39:06

How would he, somebody like

39:08

that that's later in life

39:10

diagnosed with autoimmune immune disease?

39:12

To me, that's crazy. You're

39:14

saying something has caused the

39:16

leaky gut and that's at

39:18

the core of it. Yeah,

39:20

and that's what's so crazy.

39:23

Back when I was in

39:25

medical school, autoimmune diseases were

39:27

incredibly rare. Yes, they existed,

39:29

but they were incredibly rare.

39:31

And in fact, the autoimmune

39:33

tests that we had were

39:35

actually named the funny tests.

39:37

because we would go through

39:39

all the differential diagnoses of,

39:41

okay, you know, what could

39:44

be causing this, well, why

39:46

does he have arthritis, why

39:48

he was jointer? And when

39:50

all the other things came

39:52

out negative, we'd go, well,

39:54

let's order the funny tests,

39:56

because it was so rare,

39:58

hot promoters, was so rare,

40:00

psoriasis was so rare, crone's

40:02

disease, I used to operate

40:05

on crone's disease in all

40:07

sorts, but it was rare.

40:09

Now, every other commercial on

40:11

TV is for psoriotic arthritis,

40:13

rheumatoid arthritis, is also kaleidus.

40:15

Why? Because I submit our

40:17

terrain has been completely decimated

40:19

like the Sonomberts. say, and

40:21

our processed foods are devoid

40:23

of fiber that our gut

40:26

microbiome. Did you ever wonder

40:28

why we're seeing colon cancer

40:30

in 30-year-olds now? Then we

40:32

never saw it ever? Because

40:34

we are not feeding the

40:36

gut microbiome that feeds the

40:38

colon cells anymore. Again, I

40:40

do find this incredibly simple

40:42

because all roads lead back

40:45

to the leaky gut, inflammation,

40:47

and it connects to the

40:49

brain. So that part's simple.

40:51

It's really simple. Habocrity is

40:53

simple. But the rest of

40:55

it's not so simple because

40:57

then you have these simplified

40:59

recommendations for eating. So I

41:01

have the same recommendations where

41:03

I don't have an autoimmune

41:06

disease. I'm relatively healthy. I

41:08

have some genetic heart stuff

41:10

going on. and then my

41:12

partner with rheumatoid arthritis and

41:14

then people with Parkinson's and

41:16

then people with Alzheimer's, is

41:18

there a basic diet or

41:20

does each person have to

41:22

figure out for themselves what

41:24

is going to work best

41:27

for their microbiome? The basic

41:29

diet is common to all

41:31

of these conditions for me

41:33

and that's what's so wonderful.

41:35

I'll give you a fun

41:37

example. I was referred a

41:39

daughter of a very famous

41:41

comedian who had some autoimmune

41:43

issues and we actually got

41:45

on a facetime or zoom

41:48

call with him and his

41:50

daughter and we introduced ourselves

41:52

and I told him what

41:54

I would propose we do

41:56

and he says well actor

41:58

Gundry no offense that my

42:00

daughter has been to Mayo

42:02

Clinic to stand for de

42:04

cedar Sinai and she's not

42:07

getting any better. Why in

42:09

the world should I think

42:11

that you can help her.

42:13

You can help her. And

42:15

I said, well, most of

42:17

my patients who end up

42:19

in my office have been

42:21

to all these places and...

42:23

that didn't work and that's

42:25

how they end up in

42:28

my office. He said, fair

42:30

enough. So six months later

42:32

when her two autoimmune diseases

42:34

resolved, he was on the

42:36

phone going, when can I

42:38

be your patient? And that's

42:40

not to brag. I'm just

42:42

mirroring what apocrity said. And

42:44

the reason I see patients

42:46

six days a week is

42:49

and I get to literally

42:51

see what I would have

42:53

considered miracles happen almost every

42:55

day. So for instance with

42:57

your partner we can watch

42:59

his rheumatoid factor and his

43:01

anti-c-c-c-c-p-3 go down as we

43:03

see his leaky gut markers

43:05

go down and we see

43:08

his bacterial diversity goes up.

43:10

We can correlate it one

43:12

to one. Not one would,

43:14

I've published data that within

43:16

a year, 94% of my

43:18

patients with a measurable autoimmune

43:20

disease with measurable markers are

43:22

in remission off of all

43:24

medications. Now, that's crazy. It's

43:26

wonderful. It's wonderful. I was

43:29

lecturing at Harvard a few

43:31

years ago in a neuroimclamation

43:33

conference about what's happening. And

43:35

I was making the pitch

43:37

that we can change this

43:39

by this program. And one

43:41

of the grand professors said,

43:43

wait a minute, what's wrong

43:45

with moderation, moderation and everything?

43:47

I said, that's fine. If

43:50

you want moderate dementia, moderate

43:52

coronary artery disease, moderate arthritis,

43:54

that's fine. Go for it.

43:56

And that's what I argue.

43:58

Why would we want that?

44:00

Right. but we're humans and

44:02

it is hard to make

44:04

some of these changes that

44:06

we need to take and

44:08

yes the outcome is well

44:11

worth it. You have... simplified

44:13

recommendations in this recent book

44:15

that I'm just going to

44:17

go through quickly because I

44:19

want to ask you some

44:21

questions about them but it's

44:23

eat fermented foods eat polyphenols

44:25

eat the right fats eat

44:27

your veggies eat fiber eat

44:30

melatonin which I want to

44:32

know more about take vitamin

44:34

D and you say eat

44:36

foods that you're sensitive to

44:38

and eat your LPS so

44:40

I want to ask you

44:42

about that but then Don't

44:44

eat fermented dairy, don't eat

44:46

processed foods, don't consume fructose.

44:48

Questions about that, don't consume

44:51

lactons, can we eat peanut

44:53

butter, and don't eat too

44:55

much protein, which a lot

44:57

of people are telling us

44:59

to eat more protein, especially

45:01

as women, as we get

45:03

older. So can you generally

45:05

address this issue? Well, it's

45:07

all in the book, but

45:09

one of the things that

45:12

has been a revelation since

45:14

the human microbiome project is

45:16

that polyphenols, which are these...

45:18

bright dark plant colors are

45:20

actually one of the favorite

45:22

foods of the microbiome. They're

45:24

actually an important prebiotic that

45:26

we had no idea. And

45:28

polyphenols we've known for a

45:31

very long time. And I

45:33

lectured the polyphenol conference every

45:35

year. We thought were antioxidants

45:37

and they're not. They actually

45:39

are food for friendly bacteria.

45:41

And bacteria actually take... polyphenols,

45:43

which are not absorbable by

45:45

us, and they make them

45:47

into absorbable compounds. That then

45:49

actually make our mitochondrial, the

45:52

little energy producing organelles in

45:54

all of our cells. And

45:56

if you like the mitochondrial

45:58

theory of aging, which I

46:00

like a lot, keeping your

46:02

mitochondrial healthy is a really

46:04

good idea. Why? Because mitochondrial

46:06

are actually engulfed bacteria. our

46:08

bacteria in our gut, talk

46:10

to their sisters, the mitochondria.

46:13

in our cells. And that

46:15

language, we have finally decoded.

46:17

We now can actually listen

46:19

to the language of how

46:21

bacteria talk to our mitochondria,

46:23

talk to our brain, manipulate

46:25

our brain, etc. So the

46:27

more polyphenols you get into

46:29

your diet, the better. Again,

46:31

the more fermented foods which

46:34

produce what are now called

46:36

post-biotics. In my previous book,

46:38

I have a chapter, Dead

46:40

Men Tell No Tales, but

46:42

Dead Bacteria Do. And it

46:44

turns out that dead bacteria,

46:46

the cell wall of bacteria,

46:48

carries information. And bacteria literally

46:50

see other bacterial cell walls.

46:53

They have barcode scanners that

46:55

can tell who these bacteria

46:57

are. We talk about there's

46:59

a really keystone bacteria called

47:01

acrimonsia. You can swallow live

47:03

acrimonsia and show that they

47:05

have a benefit, huge benefit,

47:07

but you can also swallow

47:09

dead acrimonsia and show that

47:11

they also have a huge

47:14

benefit. And you go, well,

47:16

what they have? Well, how

47:18

can that be? Well, because

47:20

the other bacteria see this

47:22

code of acrimonsia is like.

47:24

Whoa! Ackermancy is in the

47:26

house! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Let's

47:28

have a party! Now we

47:30

can do some really cool

47:32

stuff. And to get you

47:35

your question about LPS, lipopoly

47:37

sacriads. Gram negative bacteria have

47:39

a cell wall which called

47:41

lipopoly sacriads. And we cannot

47:43

tell the difference between a

47:45

dead gram-negative bacteria and a

47:47

living. gram-negative bacteria. We don't

47:49

want living gram-negative bacteria in

47:51

us, but we can't tell

47:53

the difference. I'll give you

47:56

an example. We can take

47:58

healthy volunteers. And we can

48:00

inject dead LPS into them

48:02

and they will go into

48:04

septic shock as if they

48:06

were horrible bacterial infections. In

48:08

fact, the Ice Man Vinhoff

48:10

got famous because using his

48:12

breathing techniques he could be

48:15

injected with LPSs and just

48:17

sit there and go, yeah,

48:19

ha ha ha, didn't do

48:21

anything to me. and he

48:23

proved that he could train

48:25

20 people in his breathing

48:27

techniques to withstand an insult

48:29

of LPS bacteria. So they're

48:31

really bad. Now, what's really

48:33

exciting in this book is

48:36

that it turns out that

48:38

if we eat small amounts

48:40

of LPS bacteria, which are

48:42

in our soil, which are

48:44

in our root vegetables, which

48:46

believe it or not, are

48:48

in grains, fermented to reduce

48:50

the lectins, then those LPSs

48:52

that we eat educate our

48:54

immune system that we know

48:57

these guys, we don't have

48:59

to get all crazy every

49:01

time we see them. And

49:03

that's one of the foundational

49:05

principles of eat dirt. And

49:07

that's, among other things, why

49:09

people who have dogs have

49:11

a much better health and

49:13

much better. more diverse microbiome

49:16

than people who don't have

49:18

dogs. Do we have to

49:20

kiss our dogs to get

49:22

that? Please push your dogs,

49:24

please push your dogs. Wait,

49:26

so you're saying LPS, even

49:28

though it's a question about

49:30

bacteria, it triggers an inflammatory

49:32

response when it hits the

49:34

bloodstream. Yes. And that's positive.

49:37

No bad thing. Oh, that's

49:39

a bad thing. So what's

49:41

the good thing? So what's

49:43

the good thing? So the

49:45

good thing is if you

49:47

eat LPS. You train your

49:49

immune system. So it's like

49:51

an allergy shot that I

49:53

talk about in the world.

49:55

So these little doses... of

49:58

things that you're, quote, allergic

50:00

to, you eventually teach your

50:02

immune system that, hey, in

50:04

fact, since you brought up

50:06

peanuts, we now know that

50:08

early small dose exposure to

50:10

the peanut allergen is actually

50:12

very useful. And there's another

50:14

example. When I was growing

50:16

up, everybody ate peanut butter

50:19

and jelly sandwiches in school.

50:21

We passed out peanuts, right?

50:23

Peanuts at the ballpark. Now

50:25

if some little kid opens

50:27

a bag of peanuts in

50:29

kindergarten, three kids pull out

50:31

their epitome. It's like, what

50:33

happened? It's because this communication

50:35

system is gone. It's like

50:38

the saunabur said, it's a

50:40

desert wasteland and we gotta

50:42

reestablish this tropical rainforest. With

50:44

kids with peanut allergies automatically

50:46

have leaky gut syndrome? Is

50:48

that a connection? Oh yeah,

50:50

I take care of lots

50:52

of kids and all these

50:54

little kids with crones at

50:56

age six. And I make

50:59

the point that even eating

51:01

disorder, kids, bulimia, anorexia, they

51:03

have a leaky gut and

51:05

they have a really dysbiotic

51:07

gut. And we can actually

51:09

treat that. I know you

51:11

have a heart stop in

51:13

two minutes. I want you

51:15

to give me your thoughts

51:17

for people that are generally

51:20

healthy. but may have leaky

51:22

gut that's causing some challenges.

51:24

I want to get your

51:26

thoughts on meat, chicken, alcohol,

51:28

sugar, and peanut butter. Don't

51:30

eat peanut butter, please. Alcohol.

51:32

Fermented alcohol in the form

51:34

of wine has been shown

51:36

in human studies. Red wine

51:39

increases gut microbiome diversity. Grape

51:41

juice doesn't. Jin actually makes

51:43

it worse. Human studies. previous

51:45

books. So I am a

51:47

fan of moderate red wine.

51:49

But you're not worried about

51:51

the ethanol in the red

51:53

wine. So it depends on

51:55

how... you use it. For

51:57

instance, in Europe, wine is

52:00

a part of a meal.

52:02

And so the ethanol is

52:04

not absorbed quickly. In the

52:06

United States, we view alcohol

52:08

as happy out. And it's

52:10

a problem. And I agree

52:12

with that. But if you

52:14

consume it with a meal,

52:16

as it was supposed to

52:18

be, it was a barrier

52:21

to the meal. So the

52:23

problem with beef, lamb pork,

52:25

and milk is it has

52:27

a really nasty sugar molecule,

52:29

which causes leaky gut. arthritis,

52:31

heart disease, and leaky brain

52:33

and dementia is called new

52:35

5GC. Chicken and fish and

52:37

us have a similar sugar

52:39

molecule called new 5AC. Unfortunately,

52:42

new 5GC is incorporated into

52:44

new 5AC binding sites in

52:46

the lining of our gut

52:48

and our blood vessel wall

52:50

in our joints and in

52:52

our blood brain barrier and

52:54

causes inflammation because we hate

52:56

it. Here's the good news.

52:58

If you ferment beef, lamb,

53:01

pork, or milk, Newfib, G-C

53:03

is eaten by bacteria, that

53:05

explains why so many of

53:07

the longest living people in

53:09

the world are fermented milk

53:11

product and meat product eaters.

53:13

For instance, Prashuto, Harmaham, does

53:15

not have any Newfib G-C.

53:17

A true fermented sausage. which

53:19

is fermented with lactic acid

53:22

bacterial cultures, has no new

53:24

5GC. Now that doesn't mean

53:26

you run to the deli

53:28

and buy salami. That is

53:30

not fermenting. So there are

53:32

ways to do this. So

53:34

you get a double hit

53:36

if you get fermented goat

53:38

yogurt at Trader Joe's. You're

53:40

getting not only no new

53:43

5GC, but you're getting all

53:45

these fermented food products. So

53:47

it's a... Are you mostly

53:49

plant-based in your diet or

53:51

are you varied? So I

53:53

am a plant predator but

53:55

most of the meats that

53:57

I eat are fish and

53:59

shellfish and pastured chicken. Great.

54:01

Thank you so much for your

54:04

time and all great information.

54:06

It's such a pleasure chatting

54:08

with you. And it's all in

54:10

the new book that got breaking

54:12

paradox and you can get them

54:15

wherever books are. Yeah, I

54:17

will let people know that. Thank

54:19

you so much. Great talking with you

54:21

too. Take care. Bye. Bye. Thanks

54:24

for joining us today. You

54:26

can learn more about Dr.

54:28

Gundry at gundrym.com. His books

54:30

are available at all major

54:32

booksellers. Next, check out Choose

54:34

Muse when you have a

54:36

minute and learn more about the

54:39

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54:41

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54:50

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54:53

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54:55

free at choosemues.com/meditation studio. Any

54:58

questions, comments, as always reach

55:00

out to us at Untangle

55:03

at choosemues.com. So happy you are

55:05

with us today. Have a great week and

55:07

we will see you next time.