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1:51

mean, it's rare that you can sit down

1:54

and talk like this with somebody who's the

1:56

main suspect. I

1:58

don't see the upside of... coming clean

2:00

with him. If

2:03

he ever finds out who I was or looks

2:05

me up, he'll know that that's me. If

2:08

you're on a way to just sort of

2:10

continue the friendship without seeming weird or anything.

2:14

Do I abort this all together and

2:17

surprise him as Payne Lindsey? What

2:19

do we think is going to happen when I do that? Nothing

2:21

good I'm sure. Do I

2:24

proceed as this Eric character, my

2:26

fake Facebook, and

2:28

try to meet him as his person? Looking

2:30

at all the options, my best

2:33

course of action for the biggest yield would

2:35

be to meet him as this fake person.

2:39

He might just not believe me. The

2:42

worst thing that would happen is he stops answering.

2:45

The real worst case scenario is you shove the door,

2:47

he pulls a gun on you and shoots you. That

2:49

could happen. This

2:51

is the dilemma I've never been in before. I

2:54

think this is a better way to do it. You're

2:57

not going to get these comments so you get in

2:59

a bar drinking with him. I

3:01

think this is a better way to do it. He

3:09

just sent this to you? Why

3:12

in the world would he do this? Why

3:14

in the world would he meet you? And

3:16

why would he want to form a friendship

3:18

based upon somebody reaching out on Facebook? I

3:20

mean it's bizarre to me. I

3:24

think it makes him dangerous. I

3:26

look like I don't belong there. You,

3:29

you're from Alaska. I'm

3:32

going to have a partner, my friend Cooper, 2v1. So

3:35

Cooper is rival.

3:39

I am Eric and

3:41

I told Oregon John that I want to meet

3:44

him in person because I'm interested in doing the

3:46

job that he does. Alaska

3:48

is a one-party state which

3:51

means that in recording other people only one

3:53

party has to be there in

3:55

order for it to be legal. I've

4:01

landed in Ketchikan and

4:03

am less than 20 minutes away from meeting

4:06

Oregon John at a bar. I

4:36

found a bar that was quiet enough in

4:38

the back and put as many recording devices

4:40

as we could hiding in plain sight. He

4:44

messaged me 10 minutes

4:47

away. Remember why you

4:49

came here. Then

4:56

he walked in. From

5:27

Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, I'm your

5:29

host Payne Lindsey and this is

5:31

Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun. My

5:46

friend Cooper and I were sitting at a table in

5:48

the back of the bar facing

5:50

the entrance. And

5:55

Oregon John was immediately recognizable.

5:58

Our other producers Mike and Dylan Were

6:00

camped out behind us recording the

6:02

entire interaction My

6:04

first thought was to try and make some small

6:06

talk if he thinks I'm somebody else

6:09

He's likely going to say something any moment now

6:14

I didn't even know who I was looking for He

6:24

does door dash in town and just got off his

6:26

shift Road

6:31

Harley's no, they got some

6:33

pretty cheap bikes around here though cheap cars, too

6:35

I'm gonna say look just for fun. I'm feeling

6:38

like I'm bouncing back and forth to Cooper hoping

6:40

John doesn't get a long look at me My

6:43

cab driver said her mom died a year ago

6:45

and the carsman said me. She'll give it to

6:47

me No way 96

6:49

Subaru out back wagon with all its

6:51

windows Got a couple around

6:54

here. I Need

6:56

to fully become this person right

6:58

now Within

7:00

a few minutes the conversation became friendly

7:02

and John mentioned that he's married now

7:05

Wait, so how'd you meet your wife? I

7:07

was gold mining. Okay, and I hired

7:09

her to be my guide when I was in the

7:12

Philippines This must be

7:14

where the idea of John being in the

7:16

Philippines came from We talked

7:18

about our own personal experiences in Alaska and I

7:20

started naming other cities Hoping that we'd eventually get

7:22

to know them and after to your gold mining

7:24

out there in the Philippines. Yeah Yeah, cuz I

7:26

was doing money That's what I was doing a

7:28

gnome for four years. I just have a hundred

7:30

ton license Then he brought it

7:33

up on his own And there's some

7:35

days you make 10 grand in the day. I Was

7:38

driving a taxi cab up and gnome you've been in a checker

7:41

cab I used to drive for checker worry you drop

7:43

everyone off at the same time. I work for 32

7:45

days straight

7:47

no day off 16 hour

7:49

days. I made twenty eight thousand dollars cash into

7:51

the table So John

7:54

was a cab driver known and

7:56

He offered a concerning anecdote about his time

7:58

as a cab driver in the. Town he

8:00

drools. Scandal: The money is a bar.

8:02

Need a ride home when off me a

8:04

blow job for five dollars. Have kids. Because

8:10

Over Mike's are hidden the audio quality

8:12

is not always the best. Some going

8:14

to occasionally replace stuff he grew spend

8:16

all their money is a bar. He

8:18

ran home and offer me a blow

8:21

job for five dollars. According

8:26

to John, his time as a

8:28

cab driver was more of a

8:30

hunting ground for local women in

8:32

his words, exchanging sex acts, rides,

8:34

and enticing women with liquor. Is

8:37

you know you've got a liquor store? Know? He

8:40

tumours a bottle of adults model just sent to pick

8:42

up to three up. I. Spent

8:44

so much. Know what? are

8:48

the same for year old. Syntax

8:51

abuses of those system more soon

8:53

be my last and among my

8:55

friends clyburn service since they called

8:58

the police are a. Little

9:01

dogs and a roof. So

9:03

I just got a restraining order and they

9:06

believe the right. This

9:08

was a familiar story that I've heard before.

9:11

Naomi from the Board of Trade Bar and

9:13

Gnome said that organ John was talking about

9:15

a restraining order there was placed against him

9:18

at the time he was it merges you.

9:20

He was talking about an incident when I'm

9:22

with his girlfriend and the things You've gotten

9:24

a restraining order on. A

9:32

roof. So I

9:34

got a restraining order and he

9:36

believes the right. So much later

9:38

see some sit on the bits

9:40

running on Sidner and she walks

9:42

by somehow from or personal essays

9:44

do for our lives up see

9:46

those folks more to my house

9:48

and fucking right now. So we

9:50

started dating to. the

9:54

claim that after he left gnome he went

9:56

back home to oregon and that he got

9:58

back together with her after she filed a

10:00

restraining order. John

10:27

seemed to view himself as a hero in

10:29

this situation. Keeping a straight

10:31

face and playing along with him was starting

10:33

to become pretty difficult. So I

10:36

moved our conversation back to Nome. Why

10:38

did John leave Nome? He

10:43

claimed the reason he left Nome was

10:45

his legal issues he had with his

10:48

ex-girlfriend, the restraining order. But then

10:50

he said this. Let's

10:57

play that back again. John

11:05

claimed that a woman went inside his tent

11:08

one night. She walked off and

11:10

then somebody kidnapped and murdered her. Does

11:13

John know this as a fact? He's

11:15

clearly talking about Florence here and he's

11:17

saying with confidence that she was murdered.

11:20

As if that's a known fact. I

11:24

started digging deeper. The whole town thought

11:26

I murdered her. The FBI had to come in.

11:28

They cleared me. They found her buried under the

11:30

dude's house, the Met dealer, who was also the

11:32

search and rescue diver in front of the police.

11:35

And they thought I did it five times. I

11:38

was the last person that seen her alive. Besides

11:40

the guy that killed him.

11:43

Okay. He's now admittedly the last

11:46

person to have seen Flo alive. Besides the

11:48

person who murdered her, which he believes to

11:50

be a solid fact at this point. Claiming

11:53

her body was discovered in a barrel

11:55

under some Met dealer's house. I

11:57

think I would have heard about that if it were true.

12:00

These are pretty bold claims here. He's

12:17

saying that because everyone thought he did

12:20

it, the FBI came in to rescue

12:22

him. He can't be serious with

12:24

this, right? He described

12:26

a time when one of Flo's friends had

12:28

approached him. He goes, hey, I heard you

12:30

picked up Flo in town. I took her out to your camp.

12:33

And yeah, yeah, she passed out and in the morning I woke up

12:35

and she was gone but left her shoes in her phone. So

12:39

Flo passed out in his tent. Then

12:42

he woke up in the morning and she was

12:44

gone, even though she left all of

12:46

her things there. And yeah, yeah, she

12:48

passed out and in the morning I woke up and she was gone

12:50

but left her shoes in her phone. Well

12:53

there was no trace of it. I

12:56

was actually held

12:59

captive by the natives for 28 days straight.

13:02

You've got to be kidding me with this. Held

13:05

captive by the natives? Give

13:07

me a break. It took every ounce

13:09

of self-control I had to not roll my eyes

13:11

into the back of my head. A friend of

13:13

mine, she actually called the FBI in

13:15

because she was working for the guy that killed her

13:18

and she found the barrel into the house and called

13:20

the FBI in. The FBI had to rescue me. In

13:24

John's story about Flo's disappearance that he's

13:26

claiming is a murder in which they've

13:28

already found her body, there was a

13:30

particular friend of his that was apparently

13:32

vouching for him at the time. And this

13:34

person allegedly told the FBI that John

13:37

was innocent. What friend is he talking

13:39

about? He's saying she so

13:41

we know that. And this

13:43

person found Flo's body in a barrel

13:46

under someone's house? The

13:48

police were trying to fuck me and everything because it was one of

13:50

their people that was in

13:52

it. It was corrupt. You have no idea.

13:54

Three times in the last 12 years, the law enforcement department

13:57

has been shut down and taken over by the feds. They

14:00

are so corrupt up there, dude, it's crazy. One

14:02

of the police officers was raping and murdering all

14:04

the girls. I heard that. Yeah. He's

14:07

now conflating the story of Sonya Ivanov's

14:10

murder by a known police officer, which

14:12

happened two decades ago. Mind

14:15

you, in this moment, he thinks that I

14:17

wanted to meet him to talk about his

14:19

job, and we just casually arrived at this

14:21

point in the conversation. To his

14:24

knowledge, we know nothing about Flo's

14:26

disappearance, at all. And

14:28

it's starting to feel like he's just throwing shit

14:30

out there to see what sticks, so we can

14:32

just move on and talk about something else. Yeah,

14:35

we know about the judge that disappeared, right? No,

14:38

they're not. Yeah, they sent him to the bears. He's

14:42

likely referring to Joseph Balderas, who went

14:44

missing in 2016. His

14:46

car was found abandoned outside Nome, and there's

14:48

been no trace of him ever since. This

14:51

is the case that the private investigator,

14:53

Andy Clamsor, has been working on for

14:55

years. It's time to try

14:58

and press a little bit harder. Why did

15:00

they fucking think you did it, then? Because

15:02

I was the last person known to have

15:04

seen her alive. She just vanished. Then

15:08

who saw her afterwards? Who murdered her?

15:10

What the fuck happened? They brought in

15:12

to dab her dogs around my camp, and

15:15

I had no place to live. I was living in a camp, and

15:19

every time I go to town, people would follow me, they'd follow

15:21

me out to my camp. One time, 30

15:23

of them cornered me on the beach, I

15:26

had to stab a guy. And I called

15:28

the police out, and by the time they got there, everyone

15:30

was left, and they took the guy, and the police didn't.

15:32

Here he goes as far as we concerned, and it was

15:34

never going to happen, because it was just outside their jurisdictional

15:36

lines. So

15:38

the guy who fucking really did it, did he get caught or

15:40

did he just, you know, fuck anyway? I

15:42

don't know. It's hard

15:44

to hear him, but when I asked if they

15:46

caught the guy, he says, oh yeah. So

15:49

the guy who fucking really did it, did he get caught or did

15:51

he just, you know, fuck anyone? Good.

15:54

But I still got family members calling

15:57

me. They actually were doing a podcast and tried to

15:59

get a hold of me. It

16:03

was in this moment, an extreme panic began

16:05

pulsing through my veins. We actually were doing

16:07

a podcast and tried to get a hold

16:09

of me. Is he just fucking

16:12

with me? Does he actually believe

16:14

I'm this other fake person? Or

16:16

did I just get caught? Also

16:18

how the hell does he know about this

16:21

podcast? At this point in time I haven't

16:23

told anybody. My

16:25

camp is known as the safe place for people to

16:27

come when they were drinking without any. That's

16:29

where I was never coming back to Alaska and then I got

16:31

this fucking job. But

16:34

I don't, I stay out of trouble, I don't go into town,

16:36

I don't mess around with girls, I got to leave you alive.

16:39

I don't, you know, I

16:41

don't get in trouble. I used to ride around on

16:43

my wheelie with a half gallon of vodka just to

16:45

get away. Eventually

16:48

he brought up his guns. A

16:50

subject I was a little less enthused by considering

16:52

the fact that he has one on his belt

16:54

right now. He's aware of some

16:56

podcast and he doesn't realize yet that

16:59

he's talking to that podcaster right now.

17:01

I had some guns to wear. They

17:04

couldn't even legally touch me because

17:08

they were class 2. Basically

17:10

if they wanted to compensate my guns they'd have to call it

17:12

federal. Because I'm going to tell you

17:14

the secret, state of Alaska is the only state to all hire sex

17:18

offenders and domestic violence

17:20

convicted as law

17:22

enforcement outside of Fairbanks and Anchorage.

17:25

Why is he telling me this? There

17:31

used to be an old guy that worked up there

17:33

as the safety officer that had dragged the paddy wagon

17:36

around. I mean he was my buddy, he stood up

17:38

for me. He's retired now, he left that town because

17:40

he saw that I'm trying to railroad him. I'm

17:43

not exactly sure who he's talking about here, but

17:45

I have some good ideas. Back

17:47

to the case again. You must say like did

17:49

they fucking at tear get you or some shit or what? No

17:52

they wouldn't speak to me. Are

17:54

you saying the police didn't interview you at all?

17:58

You must say like did they fucking at tear get you? I

18:05

had officially worked Flo's disappearance back

18:07

into the conversation and I knew

18:09

this was likely my last shot

18:11

at asking any deeper questions. According

18:14

to John, he was never interviewed at

18:16

all by the known police department. But

18:19

he did offer up on his own another

18:21

interesting story. Now

18:23

my friends wanted to go out of

18:25

town fishing, but

18:28

they weren't old enough to rent the car. So

18:30

they had me rent a car and I drove them out

18:32

there to go fishing him back with their cousin. Now this

18:34

is when that girl was missing. So we came back, I

18:36

parked the car in front of their apartment and we were

18:38

returning it the next day. The police came

18:40

and complicated the car and searched it. Because they

18:42

said they saw me driving out of town with a

18:44

girl in the car. What kind of car was it?

18:47

It was a wagon. Like a truck or something? A

18:49

wagon, a station wagon. Okay, yeah. But

18:51

they, they, ha! So

18:55

my friends called me and said the cops are here and

18:57

they're taking the car. So I pulled up

18:59

on my four-wheeler and go, what the fuck you guys doing? The

19:01

cops go, we can't talk. We can't talk. They're

19:04

trying to build a case even though

19:06

there's nothing to build. You gotta frame

19:08

your ass. Yeah. He liked that. He

19:11

wouldn't come out and say it himself though. This

19:14

story to me is of utmost importance.

19:17

I've heard previously through the grapevine

19:19

that Oregon John had allegedly rented a

19:22

car and gnome the day after

19:24

Flo went missing. Very strange

19:26

timing. And according to him,

19:28

that's true. But he rented it

19:30

for some friends of his because they weren't old enough.

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did not stop com. Bajaur.

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Went with them. In. The rental Car. So

22:46

that can be the reason because John had a car

22:48

of his own. By. Was he renting this

22:50

car? And. Who was in the car with?

22:52

I'm driving way out of town. The day

22:55

after for disappeared. That.

22:57

This point. He. Said some very

23:00

peculiar things in a seem like

23:02

he wanted to backpedal and trying

23:04

qualify that he is in fact

23:06

innocence would all my female friends

23:08

that new me was standard of

23:10

such as looting my girlfriend had

23:12

raped or zombie then lot roommate

23:14

was. during

23:17

desert still my first phone

23:19

call me of wears clothes

23:22

were slow now was which

23:24

zeal my girlfriend. Right

23:27

all along. see arises. Slow

23:29

sister was in the cell next to

23:32

me for three days. I do your

23:34

work flow and I might I don't

23:36

know and a please do that on

23:38

purpose. Back to

23:40

whoever this alleged murderers to have

23:43

a name John You know that

23:45

dude who didn't rebels and met

23:47

he was of spreads was her

23:50

met they conspired against. See

23:54

this is up There is one is easy

23:56

to Israel they put on like this. So.

24:00

Oh noes with certainty that Florence

24:02

was killed by this man and

24:04

he put her body in a

24:06

barrel under a house that his

24:08

friend eventually sound. Yet. No

24:10

one else knows about it. And. He also

24:12

doesn't know this guy. At. All. And.

24:15

No names are forthcoming is up.

24:17

There is one. Weirdos.

24:22

Moved to Alaska. Eighty

24:25

percent of the issue. With.

24:31

An interesting stat to record a bar with

24:33

two strangers you just met. It

24:35

also isn't true. John

24:37

has presented the story as if he's the

24:40

victim, so maybe if I played into that

24:42

some more to keep talking about it at

24:44

least a little longer. Good.

24:46

Mentioned earlier the preposterous story of

24:48

being held captive by natives for

24:50

twenty eight days straight. so I

24:52

brought that back up see how

24:54

to version. So I was in

24:56

my tent and he wouldn't see.

25:00

That's nice. Held

25:02

captive by the name is on

25:04

a string. With that a source

25:06

is a me a check to

25:08

means as I see I have

25:10

over three months. So.

25:14

More absurd details. Not only was he

25:16

held captive which he then said was

25:18

says him being in his own tent

25:20

on the beads, but he was injected

25:22

with Hepatitis C. Come. On

25:24

had a girlfriend since ever since most

25:26

of our weeds in hell of a

25:29

lizard wizard as blue as your girlfriend,

25:31

the one who died no no no

25:33

no allows receivers. I knew about my

25:35

girlfriend still alive. Okay yeah yeah, which

25:37

one in ago and more. Yeah. With

25:41

we're hearing as a role. Playing

25:45

dumb a little bit your. Back.

25:47

To flow. Why was he in

25:49

his tenth that nice? unfortunate timing

25:51

for him if he had nothing

25:53

to do with her disappearance like

25:55

he claims says one place to

25:57

sleep it off the my tail

26:00

I had a huge cabin tent with

26:02

wood stove in it, everything. I had

26:04

four panels, 12 bolts for draining. You

26:07

know, I had a cook stove, you

26:10

know. Did

26:13

you guys find that motherfucker? No,

26:15

I left town when they found him. A friend of mine,

26:17

a woman, used to come out and club me. She was

26:19

30 years old. He brings up

26:21

his friend again, the one that apparently

26:23

vouched for him to the FBI. This

26:26

woman also apparently found a barrel with Flo's body

26:28

inside it, under a house in

26:30

Nome. Who is this person? A

26:33

friend of mine, a woman, used to come out and club me.

26:35

She was 30 years old. She just

26:37

brought her friends, but she wanted to fuck my niece. She'd

26:39

come in from the village a couple times a month, and,

26:42

you know, good looking, whatever. Um,

26:46

but, uh, she was

26:48

working for the guy doing the construction. That

26:53

friend of his is Kelly, the

26:55

same Kelly that sent out all those text messages,

26:59

claiming two other men and a woman

27:01

were responsible for Flo's murder. The

27:03

same Kelly that told Flo's friend

27:05

something entirely different. Kelly had

27:07

told Flo's friend that it was John who was

27:10

involved, and that her body was

27:12

in John's tent, not a barrel or

27:14

someone else. The same Kelly that

27:16

refused to talk to me on the phone and pretended

27:19

like we already had. This

27:21

is the person who vouches for John? He's

27:23

gonna need a better reference than that. No,

27:26

no, that's the one that found the girl and

27:28

turned it in and called the FBI to save me. And

27:31

I knew her from the homicide. And

27:33

she's really cute. I'm like, oh, you're coming

27:36

for the fuck, man? So, you

27:38

know, I took a biogramp and he said, I'm gonna

27:40

get on my fuck, man. This is a nice girl.

27:43

And so she'd come out to my cabin

27:45

and just strip down to her bra and

27:47

panties like I'm doing all day in the

27:49

summer, drunk, and just

27:51

hang out with me. They

27:53

knew me, you know, because

27:56

I was really chill with the girls, you know? There's

27:59

no reason why. I had one

28:01

girl that had a boyfriend. She'd

28:04

call him on the phone with that on buckety

28:06

and he'd get all butt hurt. And

28:08

she goes, well, you know us, that's supposed to be cheap. She'd

28:11

hand me 10 bucks. I said, well, I know you need to go

28:13

give me a bottle of liquor. And I'd

28:15

say, okay, let's fuck. She was too drunk already. They

28:17

wouldn't sell her, so I'd fuck her for 20 minutes

28:20

and then I'd drive to the store and get her

28:22

a bottle. But she gave you a bottle. Like

28:26

a young girl when I shipped you the picture of it. She

28:28

had them driving out there and they're like, are you sure you

28:30

want to go see John? And she's

28:32

like, yeah, I know John. I trust John. And

28:35

she come out, give me a big hug. She goes, I'm going to stay

28:37

here with John. This is while that missing

28:39

girl was out and everybody thought I'd kill her. What did they

28:41

find? Under the dude's house

28:43

buried in a 50 gallon drum. That girl was

28:45

telling me about. He's

28:48

talking about Kelly again. But she's being hurt just

28:50

for it. And she didn't even want to come

28:52

down and visit me down here. Kelly.

29:01

You knew I was guilty that she passed

29:03

on a meth rod for the bottle. She's

29:06

the one that called the FBI. I'm

29:10

no psychologist and this may

29:12

be pseudoscience altogether. But in

29:14

my opinion, this was a classic

29:16

example of what they call a Freudian

29:19

slip. Listen again. That

29:22

girl who knew

29:24

I was guilty and

29:26

she told him to look, John didn't do it. Blah, blah,

29:29

blah. The FBI had to come out and get me. And

29:32

then my mental health

29:34

counselor put me in the

29:36

hospital with a tax I'd delivered for a

29:39

few months. And then he shipped me out

29:41

on a court mandate, locked down for mental

29:43

health reasons to Anchorage. He faked the paperwork.

29:45

What happened? Then as soon as I got

29:47

there, in 24 hours, I was released to

29:49

go to Oigetty's marriage because

29:51

they were doing it to protect me. I

29:54

was considered an at risk adult because of

29:56

the abuse I was receiving by

29:58

the natives. Yes They

30:02

shipped me out of the state They

30:05

have no idea I'm back up here. You could not

30:07

pay me enough to go back. Good. This way Every

30:10

rich small town. I think there for four years. So

30:13

everybody knows everybody I go back to the town I

30:16

step off that airplane matter of fact before I get

30:18

off the airplane. There's gonna be people on that plane

30:21

that are from there They

30:23

will know in town before I even step off

30:25

the plane that girl was from that area and

30:27

she was really that the town But

30:29

they got the guy right, but they still don't believe

30:32

it They don't think

30:34

I was involved Like I

30:36

said as much as six months ago. I've been

30:38

tried to get in touch with me for a

30:40

podcast Not

30:43

the podcast again, we're pretty deep

30:45

in the conversation though, I think

30:47

he believes that I'm somebody else he

30:49

has to won't As

30:53

much as six months ago, I've been tried to

30:55

get in touch with me for a podcast So

30:59

where's the fucking guy? Yeah, I thought you were

31:01

hooked up with them Well,

31:03

I know who you were. I didn't see your picture

31:07

He's talking about my fake Facebook, which he clearly

31:09

was at least a little suspicious of I don't

31:12

even like Facebook, which is true Oh, no,

31:14

no, no, no, no, no, no, because I

31:16

have people contact me on Facebook that are

31:19

firm up there But where to

31:21

befriend me? No Still

31:23

yes, that's why I was wondering

31:26

who the fuck you were Cheerios

31:28

you killed me man. I invited you to come stay

31:30

at my house Good

31:36

thing we didn't go to his house I

31:42

had to find out who you were. Okay, I didn't

31:44

even know your white dude I didn't even know if

31:46

you're a native if you said you were from Georgia

31:48

Yeah, and see when you check out his Facebook profile,

31:50

there's no pictures. I don't post man All

31:53

it says is he's from Georgia, but there's

31:56

a code. Yeah, that's the only information which

31:58

to me sends up a lot

32:00

of red flags. I

32:02

don't blame him. John sent a lot of

32:04

red flags up for me too. At this

32:07

point, the conversation was winding down. Your

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33:12

wanted to walk us to his car. He

33:14

said he had a document for us pertaining to

33:16

that job we were supposed to be interested in.

33:18

I didn't like this, but

33:21

I had to go. Now

33:39

there is a company here, another gun store, called

33:42

Firearm Adventures. You can rent 40 acres.

33:47

Making conversation on the way to his car,

33:50

John invited us to the gun range the

33:52

following morning. Not to

33:54

look weird, I told him yes, we'd

33:56

go. What's great is I

33:58

got the high-rise... Sights! So

34:01

even when the battery goes down, I still have sights.

34:03

Mmm. He

34:06

pulled out one of his pistols and

34:08

accidentally dropped it on the ground. Oh

34:12

shit. I got

34:14

my holopoints, but that's all I got. What

34:19

time should we text you tomorrow? Pick me

34:21

up, uh, little afternoon. Take

34:25

off for round one, we'll go to the power room, we'll come back,

34:27

we'll be back by some free. Oh,

34:32

text you tomorrow, man. Meeting

35:07

John was really kind of a thought we needed

35:09

to chat to see where we go. I'm

35:12

totally impressed that that happened. I

35:15

didn't think you'd ever talk to this guy. I

35:17

didn't think I would either. We

35:20

debriefed the next day with private investigator

35:22

Andy Clamser. Yeah, is he still messaging

35:24

on Facebook? He

35:27

was. Our friendship

35:29

continued. But I was not

35:31

about to go to the gun range with this guy. You

35:35

wanted us to meet between the next

35:37

day and go gun shooting. And I was

35:39

like, eh. What could go

35:41

wrong with that? Yeah, I'm like, what happened to that?

35:46

Well, how did you segue into

35:48

Nome? It's crazy

35:50

because he actually brought it up first. Right

35:53

before he got there at the bar, I

35:55

was messaging him. He brought up Nome on

35:58

his own. We

36:01

pulled up some recordings for Andy to hear. What

36:08

did he say about why her stuff was in his tent? I

36:10

don't know if you all might hear them right. She wants to

36:13

talk to her. I

36:16

don't know if you all might. I'm not sure.

36:19

I'm not sure. They found her very

36:21

in the house. I'm not sure. She's

36:23

out there. She's out there. She's out

36:25

there. Did they find her? No.

36:29

They did not find him. Andy

36:34

also found

36:41

his stories to

36:45

be absolutely insane.

36:57

He knew I was guilty that Mr.

37:00

Crackrock or Methrock was a butt hole

37:02

fucker. She's the one that's out there. Isn't

37:04

that a waste of a crack rock? She

37:08

was into the toilet and told me the times

37:10

were the wrong way. I

37:13

always felt this whole thing with Kelly to

37:15

begin with was just really weird.

37:19

And now I feel that way even more. I

37:22

pulled up all the messages that Kelly had

37:24

sent out about Flo's murder. Andy

37:26

hadn't seen them yet. Who

37:28

wrote this? It's

37:31

a Facebook post collected by

37:33

a woman named Sue. It's

37:35

just been on her own trying to

37:37

solve Flo's case. So when

37:39

we run into this problem, what

37:42

we usually do is go to like

37:44

Nome and try and find

37:46

somebody at Nome that knows her well

37:49

enough that'll help arrange a meeting. He's

37:53

peddling that theory, but that theory is

37:55

really only ever come from one person

37:57

named. And he talks

37:59

about her. a lot. That theory

38:01

sounds cute and all but it only comes from

38:04

one person. This girl who

38:06

also won't answer the phone did answer it

38:08

finally hung up on me. I'm

38:11

gonna have to try some other angles. Kelly

38:13

clearly does not want to talk on the phone where

38:16

she thinks that we already have. I

38:18

don't know whatever.

38:21

So he said he he left

38:23

Nome because of it. Yes. So that's a that's

38:25

a good admission right there. I mean if you

38:28

didn't do it why would you be like leaving

38:30

Nome? And

38:32

then in the morning when he woke up she's gone and her stuff

38:34

is there. The

38:38

more he talks the more he incriminates

38:40

himself. This is

38:42

probably better than you know trying to

38:44

interview him where you

38:46

tell him who you are because this way

38:48

you can keep talking to him over time. So

38:52

I mean one thing you can say to him now is

38:54

hey I think that girl's still alive. I

38:58

don't think they found a body. I was looking

39:00

somebody told me I was looking online or whatever.

39:06

And he he claims that the

39:08

natives injected him with hepatitis.

39:10

He held him captive for 28 days and

39:13

injected him with hepatitis. That's just I mean. So

39:21

that's like delusional. Kind

39:23

of puts him in a different category. I

39:26

mean definitely dangerous. Really

39:42

fucking weird. He's

39:52

crazy enough that he

39:54

had a mental health

39:56

person in Nome and they

39:58

did a title 40. 37 on

40:01

him where they they decided he was a danger

40:03

to himself or others And

40:05

sent him to API and Anchorage or Providence

40:07

for evaluation and then they do like they

40:09

always do after a few days They kick

40:11

him loose It's

40:14

delusional. It's like this whole this

40:16

delusions all through this I

40:19

think this guy's truly delusional It

40:25

involves delusions Those

40:28

are people who you know Can

40:31

commit violent crimes because of their delusions.

40:33

I Think it

40:36

moves him up in terms of being a suspect

40:40

It makes him a lot

40:42

more suspicious, you know, I Brought

40:47

up that restraining order the one John's ex-girlfriend

40:49

had filed against him I Sounds

40:54

to me like he actually got charged

40:56

with something related to that and They

41:01

dismissed it and that's why it doesn't show up in court.

41:03

Yeah You

41:06

need to get those restraining order petitions

41:10

Where she talked to the judge about what

41:12

happened I Did

41:17

find these court documents and the following is

41:19

her statement about John In

41:26

the morning of March 20th 2020 John Physically

41:29

assaulted me and raped

41:31

me. I Still

41:35

do not feel safe to be around him He

41:39

burned a cigarette out on my right shoulder I

41:43

Have a threatening voicemail of him yelling

41:45

and cursing me on my voicemail. I

41:49

Went to the hospital and did a rape case

41:52

the DA has all the evidence

41:54

and currently waiting to move forward

41:56

on pressing charges. I Am

41:59

so scared and do not want him

42:01

anywhere near me. I

42:04

am scared. He

42:06

has guns and knives and he

42:08

sells weed and dabs to underage

42:11

minors from 10pm to 3am

42:13

daily. My

42:21

biggest thing is, okay, how does this guy know about a podcast? There's

42:24

a finite number of ways. He should be

42:26

able to know. And

42:29

this is everything. Like, you could go look him

42:31

up, but he didn't. I know he didn't. Someone

42:33

told him something. Probably somebody you talked to in

42:35

noem was still in touch with him. Yes, and

42:37

I think it's that she's

42:39

paling the only other theory. And

42:42

I had called her the day before. It

42:46

would have made perfect sense that she

42:49

communicated to him about this podcast. This

42:54

guy is going to know the

42:56

health podcast. He'll

43:00

act differently, I think, knowing

43:02

that he's being talked about. That

43:07

may prompt him to say a

43:10

bunch of other stuff, so that's good. I'm

43:14

curious if he found out who

43:16

I was, if he'd still talk to me.

43:21

He probably would. I don't

43:23

think it would be weird if you said, Hey, I

43:26

googled this and it says here that

43:28

that lady was ever found and that

43:30

she's still missing. That's

43:32

fucked up or something like that. What

43:36

you don't have is you don't have access

43:38

to the official interviews he gave. My

43:41

guess is whatever he tells you is

43:43

going to contradict whatever he told them,

43:45

which makes it important. So

43:50

it was like two hours? Two hours, yeah. Wow.

43:55

It's perfect. It's

43:57

perfect. You

44:00

gonna send him a Christmas card? I

44:02

could. So

44:10

what's your plan for the next time you talk to him? Now

44:23

what do I do? How long

44:25

before my whole cover is blown here? My

44:28

next contact with John may very well be

44:30

my last. So

44:33

I ghosted him, and I

44:36

went two months with no contact. Then

44:41

I opened up my fake Facebook account

44:44

and took another shot in the dark. He

44:47

hadn't messaged me in two months either. What

44:50

does that mean exactly? I

44:54

took Andy's advice and I messaged him again

44:56

as his fake person. Okay,

45:07

here goes nothing. I

45:11

said, I looked up that missing girl

45:13

on Google, and it says

45:15

they didn't find her yet. Did

45:17

the FBI keep it a secret? He

45:22

read it. He's online right now.

45:26

And in no time at all, he read it. He's

45:34

typing. Hey,

45:52

it's Payne. If you haven't checked out Talking to Death

45:54

yet, please go check it out. It's

45:57

my new weekly show. If you like Up

45:59

and Vanished... then there's a good

46:01

chance you might like my weekly

46:03

show called Talking to Death. During

46:06

this season right now, in the

46:08

intro segment of every new episode

46:10

of Talking to Death, we are

46:12

unpacking the latest episode. Hey, Mike.

46:14

Hey. Hey. If you want to

46:17

hear myself and the producers of

46:19

Up and Vanished unpack episode six,

46:21

go right now on your podcast

46:23

app and look up Talking to

46:25

Death and find the latest episode featuring

46:28

Laura Norton. Up

46:37

and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is

46:39

a production of Tunderfoot TV in association

46:41

with Odyssey. Your host is Payne Lindsey.

46:44

The show is written by Payne Lindsey

46:46

with additional assistance from Mike Rooney. Executive

46:48

producers are Donald Albright and Payne

46:51

Lindsey. Lead producer is Mike Rooney

46:53

along with producers Dylan Harrington and

46:55

Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney

46:57

and Cooper Skinner with additional editing

46:59

by Dylan Harrington. Supervising producer is

47:01

Tracy Kaplan. Additional production by Victoria

47:04

McKenzie, Alice Keneak-Binn and

47:06

Eric Kentana. Artwork by Rob Sheridan.

47:08

Original music by Makeup and Vanity

47:11

City. Mix and mastered by Cooper Skinner.

47:13

Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the

47:15

team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing

47:17

and the Nord Group. Special thanks to all of

47:19

the families and community members that spoke to the

47:21

team. Additional information and

47:23

resources can be found in our show

47:26

notes. For more podcasts like Up and Vanished,

47:28

search Tunderfoot TV on your favorite podcast

47:31

app or visit us at

47:33

tunderfoot.tv. Thanks for listening. This

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