0:00

We have a crisis

0:02

in the world, tremendous

0:05

crisis, and also crisis

0:07

in our consciousness in

0:10

us. I see the urgency of

0:12

change, radical revolution,

0:15

mutation in the mind. I

0:17

see it. It is necessary.

0:20

There is complete quietness

0:22

of the mind, and

0:25

that which is silent,

0:27

has vast space. Only

0:29

then, that which is

0:32

nameless, comes into being.

0:34

This is urgency of

0:37

change, the Krishnamerti

0:40

podcast. Leisure is

0:43

extraordinarily

0:45

important to

0:47

have a mind that

0:50

is not constantly

0:52

occupied or chattering.

0:56

It is only in that unoccupied mind

0:58

that a new seed of learning

1:00

can take place. Hello and welcome

1:02

to episode 259 of urgency

1:04

of change. Each episode of

1:07

the Krishnamadi podcast is based

1:09

on a significant theme of

1:11

his talks. Extracts from the

1:13

archives have been selected to

1:16

represent Krishnametti's different

1:18

approaches to these

1:20

universal and timelessly

1:22

relevant topics. This

1:24

episode's theme is Leisure. Upcoming

1:27

themes are Trust, Abstraction

1:29

and Mechanical Living. This is

1:31

a podcast from Krishnamerti

1:33

Foundation Trust based at Brockwood

1:36

Park in the UK, which is

1:38

also home to the Krishnamerti

1:40

Centre. The Centre offers a variety

1:42

of group retreats, including for

1:45

young adults. There is also a

1:47

volunteer programme. The atmosphere

1:49

of the Centre is one of

1:51

openness and friendliness. with the sense

1:54

of freedom to inquire with others

1:56

and alone. Please visit Krishna

1:58

Meti Center. You

2:04

can also find our regular

2:06

Krishnamurti quotes and videos

2:08

on Instagram, TikTok and Facebook

2:10

at Krishnamurti Foundation Trust. If

2:14

you enjoyed the podcast, please leave a

2:16

review or rating on your podcast

2:18

app. This

2:21

episode on leisure has

2:24

five sections. This first extract

2:26

is from Krishnamurti's second talk

2:28

in Ohai in 1977

2:30

and is titled The Importance

2:32

of Leisure. I

2:36

am sure

2:39

most of you

2:41

will understand

2:44

the importance of

2:46

leisure because it

2:49

is only when you

2:51

have leisure that you

2:53

can learn. The

2:58

meaning of that word leisure, Because

3:01

we do a very good dictionary. means

3:04

not having any occupation

3:06

at the time

3:08

when we are talking

3:10

over together, not

3:12

to be occupied all

3:14

the time, psychologically,

3:18

physically or intellectually,

3:20

just have plenty

3:22

of leisure so

3:25

that

3:27

one can learn.

3:29

That is

3:31

really the meaning

3:33

of a

3:35

school where one

3:37

can learn

3:39

easily without conflict,

3:42

when your mind is not

3:44

occupied with so many other

3:47

problems. So

3:51

if I may suggest this

3:53

morning, and the

3:55

rest of the other mornings that we

3:57

meet I like talk about that. And

4:00

you are

4:03

not occupied,

4:08

that your minds are not filled

4:10

with problems, anxieties,

4:13

occupations, trying

4:17

to solve problems, but

4:19

that we are

4:22

here together to

4:24

have actually leisure.

4:30

So that when we talk

4:32

over things together, as

4:34

we are going to, that

4:38

leisure, which is

4:40

the mind not

4:42

being occupied, not

4:44

chattering, not trying

4:46

to find out,

4:48

just having plenty

4:50

of leisure, so

4:52

that in that state one

4:55

can learn. There

4:58

are two types of learning, either

5:01

memorise what

5:04

is being

5:07

said, which

5:10

is what most of us

5:12

call learning, or

5:16

learning

5:19

through

5:22

observation,

5:26

and therefore not storing

5:29

it up as

5:31

a memory and then

5:33

looking, observing through

5:35

memory. I

5:38

am going to explain it. As

5:42

we said, there are

5:44

two types of learning.

5:46

One is to learn

5:49

something by heart, so

5:51

that you store it

5:53

up in the brain

5:55

and act according to

5:57

that knowledge carefully. or

6:00

not skillfully. That's what

6:02

most of us do.

6:04

When we go to

6:06

school, college, and university,

6:08

we store up a

6:10

great deal of information

6:12

called knowledge, and according

6:14

to that knowledge, act

6:17

beneficially, of acting simply,

6:19

or incapable of

6:21

acting simply directly,

6:23

of acting simply directly,

6:26

of acting simply directly.

6:30

That's one type of

6:32

learning, with which we

6:34

are all very familiar,

6:36

which we do all

6:39

the time. Every experience

6:42

is stored up

6:44

as knowledge and

6:46

acted according to

6:48

that action, taking

6:50

place, according to

6:52

that knowledge. So

6:54

that's very clear.

6:56

That's very clear.

6:58

It is so, then

7:01

there is another kind

7:03

of learning, which

7:05

probably you are

7:07

not quite accustomed

7:09

to, because we

7:11

are such slaves

7:14

to habits, to

7:16

tradition, to every

7:18

form of conformity.

7:20

There is the other type

7:22

of learning as we

7:24

are saying. to

7:29

observe.

7:31

Observation

7:35

implies

7:38

to

7:40

see

7:42

without

7:44

the

7:46

accompaniment

7:48

of

7:50

previous

7:52

knowledge, to

7:56

look. at something

7:58

as though for the first time.

8:00

afresh and if

8:02

you observe things

8:05

afresh then there

8:07

is not the

8:10

cultivation of

8:12

memory because each

8:15

time you observe

8:17

and through that

8:19

observation you learn

8:22

store it up

8:24

as memory Then

8:27

the next time

8:29

you observe, you

8:32

are observing through

8:35

the pattern of

8:37

memory. Therefore you

8:40

see never anything

8:42

fresh. Right?

8:45

You understand?

8:47

I wonder. I'll go

8:49

on. We'll go into

8:52

it. So, as we're

8:54

saying. leisure is

8:57

extraordinarily important,

9:00

not to have

9:03

a mind that's

9:06

constantly occupied, constantly

9:09

chattering, because it's

9:12

only in that

9:14

unoccupied mind a

9:17

new seed of learning can

9:19

take place. which

9:25

is entirely

9:28

different from

9:30

the memory,

9:33

cultivating memory,

9:35

storing up

9:37

as knowledge and

9:39

acting from that

9:42

knowledge. As we

9:44

were saying there

9:46

is another kind

9:49

of learning, which

9:51

is to observe

9:53

the The

9:55

light among the leaves. leaves. And

10:00

that observation,

10:04

if stored up

10:06

as memory,

10:08

will prevent

10:10

the next

10:13

observation being

10:15

fresh. You

10:18

get this

10:20

point? It's

10:22

quite simple.

10:25

If you observe

10:27

your wife or

10:30

your girlfriend or

10:32

boyfriend, if you

10:35

observe, can you

10:38

observe without the

10:40

previous recording of

10:43

the incidents

10:46

and all the

10:49

rest of it

10:51

in that particular

10:54

relationship? or

10:56

watch. The other, without

10:59

the previous knowledge,

11:01

then you learn

11:04

much more. I

11:06

wonder if you're

11:08

understanding what I'm

11:11

talking about. Am

11:13

I conveying anything

11:15

or nothing at

11:17

all? See,

11:27

for me, the

11:29

most important thing

11:31

is, among a

11:33

great many other

11:35

things, is to

11:38

observe. And we mean

11:40

by observing not

11:43

to have the

11:45

division between the

11:48

observer and the

11:51

observed. Most

11:56

of us have this

11:58

division. The

12:03

observer who is

12:06

the total summation

12:08

of past experiences

12:10

knowledge and all

12:12

that, which is

12:15

the past, then

12:17

that past observes.

12:19

So there is a

12:21

division between the

12:24

observer and the

12:26

observed. That is the

12:29

source of conflict.

12:32

Right? I wonder if you

12:35

see this. As we said

12:37

yesterday, wherever there

12:39

is division, there

12:41

must be conflict

12:44

between races,

12:46

between people,

12:48

between two

12:50

individuals, husband,

12:53

wife, boy or

12:55

girl, nations, divisions,

12:57

divisions, divisions, divisions

13:00

of or any

13:02

form of division

13:05

must bring about

13:07

conflict. That's clear.

13:09

Now is it

13:12

possible not to have

13:14

that conflict at all

13:17

right through one's

13:19

life? You understand

13:21

my question? We

13:24

are traditionally,

13:26

we traditionally

13:28

accept this

13:30

conflict. the

13:33

struggle, this

13:35

everlasting fight,

13:38

not only

13:40

physiologically, that

13:42

is to survive,

13:44

but also

13:47

psychologically. The

13:49

good and the bad

13:52

and so on,

13:54

the division. So is

13:56

it at all possible?

14:02

to live a life

14:04

without a single effort.

14:07

Because if there

14:09

is no constant

14:11

effort, there is no

14:14

peace. Right? Please, we

14:17

are communicating with

14:19

each other. You're

14:22

not listening to

14:24

a speaker, agreeing

14:26

or disagreeing with

14:28

each other. We

14:31

are sharing the

14:33

thing together, we

14:35

are traveling together,

14:38

we are concerned

14:40

about all this

14:42

together. Therefore it is

14:45

ours, not mine or

14:47

it's ours. So we

14:50

are asking, as

14:52

man has lived

14:54

centuries upon centuries,

14:56

a life of

14:58

battle, conflict, constant

15:02

struggle to achieve and

15:04

the fear of losing,

15:07

dropping. We all are

15:09

familiar with all this.

15:12

Now we're asking, is

15:14

it possible not

15:16

to have any

15:18

conflict or even

15:20

a shadow of

15:22

conflict in one's

15:24

life? Otherwise you

15:26

can never have

15:28

peace? You

15:31

may talk endlessly

15:33

about peace, but

15:36

there will be

15:38

no peace as

15:41

long as man

15:43

is conditioned to

15:46

the acceptance

15:48

of conflict.

15:51

So we are

15:53

asking, is it

15:55

possible to live

15:57

a daily life? all

16:00

stratter of life,

16:02

both outwardly and

16:04

inwardly, a life

16:06

that is absolutely

16:09

without conflict. Now when

16:11

you listen to that,

16:14

don't please, if I

16:16

may suggest, accept it

16:18

or deny it. Don't

16:20

say it's not possible.

16:22

Oh yeah, or say

16:24

it is possible. If

16:26

you say it is

16:28

possible. and therefore

16:31

various. But if you

16:34

say it's not possible,

16:36

then you block yourself.

16:39

Right? So we are

16:41

together investigating this question.

16:44

And investigation can only

16:46

take place when you

16:49

have leisure. Right? Leisure

16:52

being your mind not

16:54

being occupied with other

16:57

problems. We are here.

16:59

because you have leisure

17:02

this morning, you

17:04

came, near or far

17:06

from far, and

17:08

together having leisure,

17:11

which means a

17:13

mind that is

17:15

not occupied with

17:17

daily problems, and

17:19

therefore willing to

17:21

learn and see

17:23

if that is

17:25

possible to live

17:27

that way. All

17:29

one's days, right?

17:31

Are we meeting

17:34

each other somewhere?

17:36

Not verbally,

17:38

I hope,

17:41

but actually,

17:43

because it's

17:46

our problem,

17:48

because life

17:50

is becoming

17:53

more and

17:55

more difficult.

17:58

overpopulation. national

18:02

divisions, economic

18:04

qualities – you know all

18:06

the rest, that is

18:08

happening. Life is becoming extraordinarily

18:10

difficult. And

18:17

the mere

18:19

physical survival

18:21

– one

18:24

is conditioned to the

18:26

fact that one must

18:28

make tremendous effort to

18:30

achieve a position and

18:32

hold it – you know

18:34

all this. And

18:36

if you don't hold it, if

18:38

you don't struggle, you might lose

18:41

everything, you might be crushed, you

18:43

might fall down and all that.

18:46

So we are asking a

18:48

very, very serious question –

18:50

do please give your attention to

18:52

it? Is it

18:54

possible to live

18:57

without a single shadow

18:59

of conflict? Conflict

19:05

exists when

19:07

there is division

19:09

– the me and the

19:11

you, we and

19:13

they. The

19:16

American, the Russian, the ideologies of

19:18

this group and the ideologies of

19:20

that group and so on, so

19:22

on, so on. Psychologically,

19:25

first, which

19:27

is most important,

19:30

not physiologically.

19:32

If one understands

19:34

very deeply

19:36

the nature and the

19:38

structure of conflict

19:41

psychologically and

19:43

perhaps end it there, then

19:45

you will be able

19:47

to deal with the physiological

19:49

factor. But

19:52

if you are only concerned

19:54

with the physiological factor,

19:56

biological factor, to survive. then

20:00

you'll find it

20:03

enormously difficult. You

20:05

can't probably do it

20:07

at all. So we are

20:09

concerned as we have leisure

20:11

this morning, sitting down

20:14

together in a beautiful

20:16

place. There's a lot

20:18

of shadow, green trees

20:21

and the cool breeze.

20:23

I hope it's not too

20:25

cold. And having leisure,

20:27

we are examining.

20:29

exploring together the fact

20:32

whether one can live

20:35

a life that is

20:37

really without conflict and

20:40

therefore deep with deep

20:42

care affection attention.

20:57

The second extract

20:59

is from the

21:02

sixth talk at

21:05

Rajgato in 1962

21:07

and is titled,

21:09

We have very

21:11

little leisure. Perhaps

21:14

we should inquire

21:16

into this problem

21:19

of leisure. leisure

21:31

does breed with

21:33

most of us

21:35

discontent. And

21:37

so we

21:40

occupy ourselves

21:42

with so many

21:45

things to keep

21:47

our minds busy.

21:49

We try various

21:52

activities. And if

21:55

they are successful,

22:00

profitable, gratifying,

22:02

then we

22:04

settle in those. And

22:06

the rest of our

22:09

life is spent in

22:11

furthering that particular cause

22:14

or that particular

22:16

thing to which we

22:19

are committed. And so

22:21

our days and our thoughts

22:23

and our feelings are

22:25

taken up with that.

22:29

So there is very

22:32

little leisure. I

22:34

think leisure is

22:37

very important. That

22:40

period when you

22:42

have nothing to

22:44

do, that time when

22:47

there is no thought,

22:49

no occupation,

22:51

when your mind

22:54

is not asleep,

22:56

attentive, And

23:01

most of us have

23:03

very little time

23:06

for that, because

23:09

our days are taken

23:12

up with gaining

23:14

and losing. Going

23:17

to the office,

23:19

attending meetings,

23:22

or going to the

23:24

club, or some form

23:27

of amusement. Or you

23:30

read a great deal.

23:32

And if you are

23:35

so-called religiously

23:37

inclined, you turn to

23:39

sacred books. I don't

23:42

know why there should

23:44

be any more sacred

23:46

than any other book,

23:49

but they're called

23:51

sacred books. And

23:53

so we spend our days

23:56

and our whole life

23:58

being occupied. Not

24:00

a part of our

24:02

mind is at leisure.

24:05

It's quiet. Not a

24:07

part of our

24:09

being anywhere

24:12

that comprehensively

24:14

understands

24:16

the work, the activity,

24:19

the things that one

24:21

has to do, and

24:24

yet... There

24:29

is, with the

24:31

totality of it,

24:34

a certain repose,

24:36

a certain quietness,

24:40

a quality which

24:42

is untouched, a

24:45

quality which

24:47

is constantly

24:50

keeping itself

24:52

clean like the

24:55

river, because it's

24:58

very and corrupt

25:02

it. And

25:06

for

25:08

most

25:10

of us,

25:13

discontent

25:19

is a

25:22

torturous

25:24

thing.

25:28

if I may point

25:31

out, this is not

25:33

an intellectual

25:37

verbal ideational

25:41

talk. We are

25:44

here, as I

25:46

take it, to

25:49

really investigate into

25:52

ourselves. And

25:54

this are... is

25:57

to open the door.

26:00

and look through

26:02

into ourselves and discover what

26:04

is through and what is

26:06

false. And

26:12

perhaps

26:15

in merely

26:17

listening to the

26:20

words you

26:22

might be able, for

26:25

yourself, to

26:27

see clearly without

26:29

distortion the actual

26:31

process of the

26:33

mind, the

26:35

ways of one's own thinking, and

26:41

the habits of one's own

26:43

feelings. So

26:48

most of us are discontented. We

26:51

try this and that, and

26:56

we are always

26:58

wanting to commit ourselves to a course

27:00

of action. And

27:05

the action invariably, if one

27:07

is at all intellectual, tall, sensitive,

27:10

is turned in the

27:13

direction either to

27:15

improve society, social

27:19

work, or

27:23

if

27:26

one sees its

27:28

true worth, then

27:31

one turns to

27:33

so -called religion

27:35

apart from life. And

27:43

one finds something in this

27:45

process of wandering

27:47

in action, some

27:50

activity that

27:53

is completely satisfactory. And

27:59

there is one remains solidified

28:01

in that activity. But

28:08

life won't leave us

28:10

alone, there is always somebody

28:12

saying something who says

28:14

that is not quite right.

28:20

So again you begin to

28:22

be discontented, and so keep

28:24

going till you find. And

28:28

so we are always

28:30

avoiding leisure, you

28:33

know, that time when there is

28:35

no occupation at all, because

28:39

when the mind is really

28:41

very quiet, not

28:44

harassed, not

28:49

all the time

28:51

occupied with problems, then

28:56

perhaps out

28:58

of that quietness

29:00

some other

29:02

quality can come

29:04

into being. I

29:08

would like, if I

29:10

may this evening, to

29:13

enquire

29:16

into that

29:18

quality

29:20

of mind

29:22

which

29:24

has leisure

29:29

and has not committed

29:32

itself to anything, which

29:36

can

29:38

see, act

29:40

and yet

29:43

be uncontaminated. I

29:49

would like, if I may, to go into that,

29:53

but not how to

29:55

acquire it. Let's

29:59

be very clear. from

30:01

the beginning, that

30:05

such a mind is

30:07

not come by any

30:09

method, any system, by

30:14

any work, by

30:18

any sacrifice, through any virtue.

30:24

And that is the beauty of such

30:26

a mind. The

30:38

third extract is from Krishnamurti's

30:40

seventh talk in Bombay

30:43

1964 and is titled, What

30:45

Will We Do With Our Leisure? One

30:49

has to

30:51

be very clear what

30:53

the problems are that are

30:55

facing each one of

30:57

us, because

31:01

without understanding

31:03

these problems, not

31:08

merely verbally or intellectually, but

31:10

actually realising

31:13

the implications of

31:15

all these problems, and

31:19

thereby sharpening our brain, so

31:24

as to be able to not only

31:26

meet these problems but to go

31:28

beyond them. That

31:31

is the first importance. One

31:39

sees what is going on in the world.

31:44

First, there

31:47

is

31:50

the

31:52

mechanical, technological

31:55

progress, so

31:57

far. so

32:03

dynamic. So

32:05

all consuming.

32:07

That unless

32:10

one understands,

32:12

one is

32:14

caught up

32:17

in the

32:19

mechanical process

32:21

of it,

32:24

and there

32:26

will be

32:28

never freedom

32:31

for man.

32:33

through electronic

32:35

brains, through

32:38

electronic brains,

32:40

in 50

32:42

or more

32:45

years, the

32:47

problems, the

32:49

economic problems

32:52

of food,

32:54

clothes and

32:56

shelter will

32:59

be solved.

33:02

Man will be

33:05

left with leisure.

33:08

Factories can be

33:11

run by a

33:14

dozen people or

33:17

so, not three

33:20

thousand or thirty

33:23

thousand or unnecessary.

33:26

The electronic brains.

33:29

the machines that

33:32

are going to

33:34

correct machines, all

33:37

that is taking

33:39

place actually now,

33:42

and man, you

33:44

are going to

33:47

have leisure, and

33:49

what is man

33:52

going to do

33:55

with that leisure?

33:59

Oh good. to take over that

34:01

leisure, as

34:03

amusement, entertainment

34:06

are going to take over

34:08

that leisure. This is

34:10

going on. The church,

34:12

the religious organizations are

34:15

beginning already being

34:18

aware of the

34:20

implications of beginning

34:23

already being aware

34:25

of the implications.

34:28

to control, to

34:30

shape man's thought. And

34:32

of course there

34:35

is entertainment,

34:37

organized or

34:40

individual amusement.

34:43

So that either

34:45

we understand the

34:47

whole significance of

34:50

leisure or we're going

34:52

to be absorbed in

34:55

these two channels. As

35:02

society, we'll go

35:05

on in a

35:08

state of

35:10

corruption. Society

35:13

is always

35:15

in a

35:17

state of

35:20

corruption. And

35:22

it behoves

35:24

us to find

35:27

out for ourselves.

35:31

come out of

35:34

this corruption. Because

35:36

you know what's

35:38

happening in this

35:41

country, as in

35:44

the world, from

35:46

the highest political

35:48

office to the

35:51

lowest. There is

35:53

corruption. Everywhere

35:55

in the world

35:57

of art, music.

36:00

There

36:02

is tradition, there is

36:04

no creation. Religion,

36:11

as it is

36:13

practiced now, is absolutely

36:15

meaningless and utterly

36:17

disastrous for man.

36:23

It has no meaning. It

36:27

is an escape

36:29

from actual life,

36:31

of boredom, of

36:35

fear, and

36:39

all the rituals with

36:41

their priests have

36:43

no meaning whatsoever, though

36:46

momentarily they give

36:48

a kind of sensation.

36:53

And the

36:56

worship of

36:59

authority as the

37:01

guru, as the leader, will

37:06

lead man nowhere

37:08

for they deny

37:10

totally freedom. So

37:17

these are some of the problems, that

37:22

first there is no

37:24

freedom, and

37:30

you have to work to have that freedom,

37:34

because

37:36

it is only in freedom that you can

37:38

discover what is true. You

37:41

will not have freedom

37:43

either through any form

37:45

of government, communist, socialist,

37:48

otherwise. So

37:53

governments are not going to solve your

37:55

problems, nor

37:59

solve. You

38:02

may go to

38:04

the moon or

38:07

go into the

38:09

bowels of the

38:11

earth. But the

38:14

human mind will

38:16

be the same,

38:18

adjusting itself, modifying

38:21

itself, carrying on

38:23

on a superficial

38:25

level of corruption,

38:28

adjusting, adjusting itself,

38:31

nor any social

38:33

reform, whatever his

38:36

reputation, whatever his

38:38

activity is going

38:41

to bring freedom

38:43

to man. Every

38:46

social reformation is

38:48

the denial of

38:50

the freedom of

38:53

man, because he

38:55

sustains the corruption

38:58

of society. Probably,

39:04

you know all

39:07

this. Probably, you

39:09

are vaguely thought

39:12

about all this.

39:14

And probably, you

39:17

find there is

39:19

no way out

39:22

of it. So

39:24

we are going

39:27

to find out

39:29

for ourselves, if

39:32

there is. a

39:34

way out of

39:37

this chaos, this

39:39

corruption, this utter

39:42

decay. We have

39:44

looked to outside

39:47

agencies as God,

39:49

to some authority,

39:52

spiritual authority to

39:54

help us out.

39:57

And this has

39:59

been... going on

40:01

upon century upon

40:04

century, seeking aid

40:06

from outside, through

40:09

prayers, through worship,

40:11

through obedience,

40:14

through the worship of

40:16

a guru, of

40:18

a saint, and

40:21

blindly or intelligently

40:23

following them. We

40:32

have tried so

40:34

many ways to

40:36

escape from the

40:38

chaos which man

40:41

has created, which

40:43

you and I

40:45

have created. It

40:47

is the result

40:49

of our activity,

40:51

society, which is

40:53

relationship, is the

40:55

result of your

40:58

relationship with another.

41:05

So, seeing all

41:07

this, what is

41:10

man to do?

41:12

There is no

41:15

escape. There is

41:18

no outside agency.

41:21

No gods.

41:23

Nobody is

41:26

going to

41:28

come from

41:30

mass of

41:32

Venus. No

41:38

religion, no belief, no

41:40

dogma is going to

41:43

purify the mind and

41:45

the heart so completely

41:47

that you come out

41:50

of this with beauty

41:52

with extraordinary sense of

41:55

compassion and love. The

42:04

fourth extract

42:07

is from the third

42:09

talk in Bombay

42:12

1966 and is

42:14

titled Great Leisure

42:17

is Coming. What

42:19

we are going to

42:22

do if I

42:24

may this evening

42:26

is to learn

42:28

about this particular

42:34

thing called

42:36

consciousness. To

42:39

learn about it,

42:41

obviously you must

42:43

come to it

42:46

fresh. You may

42:48

have read books,

42:51

you may have

42:53

ideas, opinions. But

42:56

what you have

42:58

read, what you

43:01

have read, your

43:04

opinions. according to

43:06

somebody is not

43:09

what is the

43:11

fact. To understand

43:14

a fact, opinions

43:17

are not necessary.

43:20

On the contrary,

43:22

there are a

43:25

hindrance. And to

43:27

inquire into this

43:30

consciousness... One must

43:33

be free. Not

43:36

bound to any

43:38

particular theory or

43:41

knowledge. And so

43:44

the first requirement

43:47

of a serious

43:49

human being who

43:52

wants to learn,

43:54

he must be

43:57

free. Free to

43:59

inquire. That

44:03

means not afraid,

44:05

free to look,

44:08

to observe, to

44:10

criticize, to be

44:13

intelligently skeptic

44:15

and not accept,

44:18

because we are

44:20

going to inquire

44:22

into something

44:25

that demands all

44:27

your attention. and

44:32

you cannot attend

44:35

if you have an

44:37

opinion, an idea, a formula

44:40

or a knowledge of

44:42

what other people have

44:45

said. As we said

44:47

the other day, if

44:49

you walk in the

44:51

light of another, that

44:53

light will lead you

44:55

to darkness. It

45:01

does not matter who

45:04

it is, that offers

45:07

you light. But

45:09

to walk in

45:11

the light of

45:14

one's own understanding,

45:16

which can only

45:19

come about when

45:22

there is attention

45:25

and silence. and

45:31

that demands

45:33

great deal of

45:35

seriousness. As we're

45:38

saying the other

45:40

day, the great

45:42

changes are taking

45:45

place in the

45:48

world. In the

45:50

scientific field and

45:53

in the field

45:55

of medicine. That

46:05

is the computer

46:07

and automation are

46:10

going to give man

46:12

a great deal of

46:14

leisure. That leisure has

46:16

probably not come yet.

46:19

It will. It is

46:22

coming. Man is going

46:24

to have great freedom,

46:27

leisure to do what

46:29

he will. And

46:36

science also

46:38

is proving

46:41

into the

46:43

question of

46:46

prolonging life

46:49

indefinitely. And

46:52

bringing about

46:55

children through

46:58

different methods

47:01

and so on.

47:05

All this is taking place

47:08

and that's going to

47:10

revolutionise the whole of

47:13

society. The family, the

47:15

relationships between husband and

47:17

wife, all that's going

47:19

to be revolutionised. There's

47:22

a great change

47:24

going on in the world

47:27

at the present time.

47:29

Economically, socially, scientifically,

47:32

scientifically, and medically.

47:41

And what is going

47:43

to happen to man?

47:45

That is, to you

47:47

and to me,

47:50

in this tremendous

47:52

revolution that's taking

47:54

place. What

48:00

is the purpose

48:03

of man? Why

48:06

does he exist

48:08

at all? When the

48:12

machinery, technology,

48:15

medicine are

48:17

going to

48:20

give great

48:22

leisure, prolonged

48:25

life indefinitely?

48:31

Then why does man exist?

48:33

What for? Because drudgery,

48:36

work are going to

48:38

be taken away from

48:41

him. People are already

48:43

talking about giving man

48:45

a certain sum of

48:48

money when he's born

48:50

and let him be

48:53

free. That's coming. Everything

48:55

is possible now. And

49:02

what is man to

49:04

do? Sir, this is

49:07

a very serious

49:09

question. What

49:11

are we

49:13

as human

49:16

beings going to

49:18

do? What are

49:21

we as human

49:23

beings going

49:25

to do in

49:27

this world? when

49:31

the whole

49:34

idea of

49:36

soul, reincarnation,

49:38

the continuity

49:40

of a particular

49:43

individual is all

49:46

gone. So we

49:49

have to learn anew

49:51

about a new

49:53

way of living.

50:03

To find that out,

50:05

one has to inquire

50:07

into this state

50:10

of mind, into

50:13

this consciousness, and

50:15

whether it is

50:18

possible fundamentally at

50:20

the very basis at

50:22

the very root, to

50:24

change the totality

50:26

of this

50:28

consciousness. We

50:35

mean by consciousness,

50:37

don't we? The

50:40

thought, the feeling

50:42

and the activity.

50:44

The thought, the

50:46

feeling and the

50:49

action. Conscious or

50:52

unconscious. That's what

50:55

we generally mean

50:57

by consciousness. The

51:00

whole process of

51:03

thinking. the

51:10

senses that

51:13

create the

51:16

feeling, the

51:19

formulas, the

51:21

opinions, the belief

51:24

that there is

51:27

or that there

51:29

is not. All

51:32

that is within

51:34

the field of

51:37

consciousness. is

51:40

the result

51:43

of time.

51:46

Time as

51:48

duration, as

51:50

years, as

51:53

a process

51:55

of evolution.

52:03

from the thoughtless

52:06

to the most

52:09

profound thinking, from

52:12

the superficial

52:14

feeling, to the

52:16

great depths of

52:18

feeling. All that

52:20

implies the great

52:22

stretch of time.

52:24

Not only time

52:27

by the watch,

52:29

but also time

52:32

psychologically. That

52:36

is inwardly. Thought

52:39

is consciousness. Thought

52:42

is time. And

52:45

this thinking

52:47

process has

52:49

taken centuries

52:52

of experience,

52:54

knowledge, pain,

52:57

suffering, and all

52:59

the rest of

53:02

it. so

53:04

that we are able

53:07

to think. There

53:09

is thinking

53:11

consciously or

53:13

thinking unconsciously.

53:17

And the unconscious

53:19

as well as

53:22

the conscious is

53:24

still consciousness.

53:26

And we

53:28

divide it

53:30

for convenience.

53:36

Now, all that

53:39

is the result

53:42

of centuries of

53:45

experience, knowledge,

53:48

information, tradition,

53:51

either of the

53:54

enormous past or

53:56

the tradition of

53:59

a... few years or

54:01

a few days. The

54:03

technological knowledge, all

54:05

that is within

54:08

the field of

54:10

consciousness, both the conscious

54:12

as well as the

54:15

unconscious. And within that

54:17

field we act. And

54:20

within that field we

54:22

act. And within that

54:24

field there is sorrow,

54:27

pleasure, and There

54:34

is unconscious

54:38

sorrow or

54:41

deep undiscovered

54:44

brooding sorrow.

54:47

And to

54:49

bring about

54:52

a radical

54:54

change must

54:56

lie beyond

54:59

this consciousness.

55:03

The final

55:07

extract in

55:10

this episode

55:13

is from the

55:16

fifth talk

55:18

in Bombay

55:21

1962 and

55:23

is titled

55:27

Leisure and

55:29

Laziness.

55:33

given to slip

55:35

short thought, with

55:38

no precision, our

55:40

minds are as

55:42

confused as our hearts

55:45

and equally dull.

55:47

And to understand

55:49

laziness, not how

55:51

to get rid

55:54

of laziness, because

55:56

as a point we

55:58

pointed out. at the

56:01

last meeting, learning

56:03

is far more

56:05

important than merely

56:07

to dissolve a

56:10

problem. If you can

56:12

learn about a problem,

56:14

you have already

56:17

dissolved it. And we

56:19

are going to learn

56:21

about laziness.

56:23

This extraordinary

56:26

indolence of the

56:29

mind. I

56:32

mean by learning

56:35

not accumulating knowledge

56:38

about laziness, which

56:40

becomes merely verbal,

56:43

but learning implies

56:45

investigation. And to

56:48

investigate, the mind

56:51

must be free

56:53

to find out. And there

56:56

is no freedom if

56:58

you merely acquiesce,

57:00

agree or deny.

57:03

defend yourself

57:05

behind a

57:07

barrier of words

57:10

and conclusions.

57:12

These are

57:14

distractions which

57:17

prevent the

57:19

clarity in which

57:22

learning can take

57:24

place. So please,

57:26

we are going

57:28

to learn together

57:31

about lasers. with

57:34

a people who live

57:37

in a climate,

57:39

who have lived

57:42

under various forms

57:44

of tyranny and

57:47

authority, they

57:50

easily slip

57:52

into mental

57:54

lassage, into

57:57

an indolence.

58:00

into easily

58:03

accepted attitudes

58:06

and values.

58:08

So one has

58:10

to be aware

58:12

that to learn

58:14

there must be

58:17

freedom to inquire.

58:20

And we are

58:22

going to learn

58:24

about this. quality,

58:28

this thing called laziness.

58:30

As I said, the

58:32

essence of laziness is

58:35

self-pity. I am going

58:37

to go into that

58:40

statement, because if we

58:42

do not understand this

58:45

problem, this question

58:47

of self-pity, we shall

58:49

not understand what is

58:52

to follow, which is

58:55

sorrow. It

59:01

is right to be lazy.

59:03

It is good to be

59:06

lazy. I mean by

59:08

laziness in that sense,

59:10

not to be

59:12

incessantly active, like

59:14

the ant, or

59:17

the monkey everlastingly

59:19

doing something. Most

59:22

of our minds

59:24

are everlastingly occupied

59:27

with some. word,

59:29

problem, idea, issue.

59:32

It's always chatting

59:35

to itself. It's

59:38

never lazy. It's

59:40

never quiet. It's

59:43

always under attention.

59:45

And a mind

59:48

that is not

59:50

indolent, not

59:53

lazy, but has

59:55

that quietude.

1:00:04

is in

1:00:06

its

1:00:09

very gentleness

1:00:11

perceives in a

1:00:13

flash is true? and

1:00:20

that laziness, that endurance,

1:00:22

that sense of

1:00:24

infinite leisure, which

1:00:29

is not to be

1:00:31

confused with comfort. A

1:00:36

mind at

1:00:39

leisure is an

1:00:41

extraordinary mind, because

1:00:46

then it is not

1:00:48

caught up in the net of action, it's

1:00:53

not everlastingly chattering with

1:00:55

itself or about something.

1:00:58

So there is a

1:01:00

quality of leisure, of

1:01:04

quietude, a

1:01:07

sense of indifference, which

1:01:13

is necessary, but

1:01:17

that sense of

1:01:19

quietness, that

1:01:21

sense of

1:01:24

infinite emptiness

1:01:27

in which a

1:01:29

flash of

1:01:31

the real can

1:01:33

place is

1:01:35

only possible if

1:01:37

we understand

1:01:39

the laziness

1:01:41

of not only the

1:01:43

body, but

1:01:48

also the

1:01:50

laziness of

1:01:52

accepting ideas,

1:01:54

thoughts, assertions

1:01:56

and conclusions. along

1:02:00

which, like a tram car,

1:02:02

we run along, along the

1:02:05

same grooves. And we do

1:02:07

not know, even, we are

1:02:09

not even conscious that we

1:02:11

are running on grooves. That

1:02:13

is laziness. Not to know,

1:02:15

not to be aware. Not

1:02:18

to be aware. Not to

1:02:20

be aware. Not to be

1:02:22

aware. Not to be aware.

1:02:24

Not to be aware. Not

1:02:26

to be aware. Not to

1:02:28

be aware. Not to be

1:02:31

aware. Not to be aware.

1:02:33

Not to be aware. that

1:02:35

you are thought, you are

1:02:37

feeling, your activities, are perpetually

1:02:39

along the same lines, along

1:02:42

the same groves. What you

1:02:44

have thought, when you are

1:02:46

30, 20, you are still

1:02:48

thinking about the same. There

1:02:50

is no change, there is

1:02:52

no breaking away, there is

1:02:55

nothing new, there is no

1:02:57

freshness, there is no freshness.

1:03:03

And laziness of

1:03:06

the body, the

1:03:09

influence, which most

1:03:12

people have, they

1:03:14

feel that can

1:03:17

arouse to activity

1:03:20

by disciplining the

1:03:23

body, forcing it,

1:03:26

driving it, compelling

1:03:29

it. Every

1:03:35

form of compulsion

1:03:38

creates conflict. And

1:03:41

their mind in

1:03:44

conflict with the

1:03:46

body doesn't grip

1:03:49

energy to the

1:03:52

body, to the

1:03:54

organism, but creates

1:03:57

conflict. And

1:04:00

that conflict

1:04:03

is not

1:04:05

the energizing

1:04:07

quality which

1:04:09

makes the body active. So

1:04:15

discipline, control,

1:04:19

forcing the organism

1:04:21

to conform, to

1:04:23

get out from bed, to

1:04:25

do the various things to

1:04:27

assert its activity only

1:04:30

creates resistance. And

1:04:36

where there is resistance

1:04:38

there is contradiction,

1:04:40

and it is this

1:04:43

contradiction which is

1:04:45

not understood breeds laziness.

1:04:49

If you have studied

1:04:52

your own body, watched

1:04:56

it, observed

1:04:58

it,

1:05:00

then you will know when it

1:05:02

should rest and when it should not rest.

1:05:08

Then you will know that

1:05:10

you need no compulsion,

1:05:12

no enforcement, no driving the

1:05:14

body to do something.

1:05:17

It will do it naturally,

1:05:19

spontaneously, easily, for

1:05:22

that you must understand

1:05:24

the whole process of

1:05:26

your own mental endurance. When

1:05:35

a man overeats, indulges

1:05:38

in various forms, all

1:05:41

those indicate an extraordinary

1:05:43

sense of lethargy, because

1:05:51

his mind is asleep, he

1:05:56

merely follows an

1:05:58

appetite. which

1:06:01

has become a

1:06:04

habit. And that

1:06:06

habit is merely

1:06:09

a thoughtless continuity

1:06:12

of what has

1:06:15

been. So it

1:06:17

is important to

1:06:20

understand the process

1:06:23

of the mind

1:06:25

that has become

1:06:28

lazy. as

1:06:30

long as there

1:06:32

is conformity, settling

1:06:34

down in the

1:06:36

little corner that

1:06:39

you have carved

1:06:41

out for yourself

1:06:43

and your family,

1:06:45

feeling safe, emotionally,

1:06:47

mentally, mentally, feeling

1:06:49

certain that we

1:06:51

have achieved, emotionally,

1:06:53

mentally, feeling certain

1:06:55

that we have

1:06:57

achieved. patting

1:07:01

yourself on the

1:07:03

back, which indicate

1:07:05

that you have

1:07:08

come to a

1:07:10

point where you

1:07:12

feel pretty secure,

1:07:15

that nothing can

1:07:17

disturb you, then

1:07:19

begins laziness. And

1:07:22

it is that

1:07:24

laziness, which is

1:07:26

the essence of

1:07:29

self-petter. for

1:07:36

what I mean by

1:07:39

self-pity, to feel for

1:07:41

oneself that one has

1:07:43

no one to rely

1:07:45

on, to feel for

1:07:47

oneself that one is

1:07:49

left out, neglected, that

1:07:52

one is not loved,

1:07:54

that though you may

1:07:56

love, that you may

1:07:58

love. or a failure

1:08:00

that you must make

1:08:02

a success, that you

1:08:05

are this and that

1:08:07

you are that. The

1:08:09

everlasting assertion of yourself.

1:08:11

In your tears, in

1:08:14

your happiness, in your

1:08:16

frustration, in your misery,

1:08:19

there is this thread,

1:08:21

unbreakable thread of self-ity,

1:08:24

right through life. And

1:08:26

that is... laziness,

1:08:30

because there

1:08:33

you are

1:08:36

beginning to

1:08:39

conform, settle

1:08:41

down, grow

1:08:44

fat mentally.

1:08:46

And everyone

1:08:50

seeks security

1:08:54

in that laziness.

1:08:56

that sense

1:08:59

of security

1:09:01

psychologically. And

1:09:04

from that

1:09:06

center you act.

1:09:08

Your life is.