0:00

All right, I'm with James Lindsay

0:02

everyone. Welcome back to Watkins welcome.

0:04

It's been a while. It's been

0:06

a while. It has been, when

0:08

was the last time you were

0:11

on the podcast? Do you remember?

0:13

Probably like this time of

0:15

year, 2019, maybe. Oh, holy shit.

0:17

Yeah. You and I saw each other

0:19

last in person in Aspen, right?

0:21

Yeah. That was like, what, 2019?

0:23

That was also 2019. When, was

0:25

that July, July? It was the summer,

0:28

it was the summer, right. Yeah, that

0:30

was fun. That was a pretty good

0:32

trip. That was a good trip. That was

0:34

a good trip. That was it. But

0:36

now it's like seems like this. The

0:38

like the days of like the golden

0:40

days of your the idyllic past when

0:43

the world hadn't gone mad yet.

0:45

COVID hadn't happened. It had gone

0:47

mad though. It had. But what was

0:49

what we didn't fully, well, maybe you

0:52

did. But what we didn't fully comprehend

0:54

was how much more mad it was

0:56

going to go. Because you guys were

0:59

in the middle, you were there with

1:01

Peter Pagosian, Helen, Helen Pluckrose, and we

1:03

were all at Pamela Preses, and she's

1:06

freaking great and that. And it was,

1:08

what were you doing there? You were trying

1:10

to like give a talk? Yeah, she put

1:12

together like a panel for us with,

1:14

I forgot what the organization

1:17

was, but they're in Aspen and she

1:19

had us go and we were talking,

1:21

I think about our grievance studies, a

1:23

hoax papers that we had written. Yes.

1:25

Because that came out in the end

1:28

of 18. So the timing lines up,

1:30

right? And so we were talking about

1:32

kind of the crisis and academia. And

1:34

if I remember, right. We were trying to

1:36

make the point that like what's happening in

1:38

academia is not going to stay in academia,

1:41

right? It's going to leak out or it's

1:43

going to take over society, which is kind

1:45

of what motivated us to do the

1:47

project in the first place. Yeah, remember

1:50

when I asked for on Twitter examples

1:52

of self-censorship, it was right before I

1:54

met you in person, and people were

1:56

like, this stuff is everywhere, and people

1:59

were like, oh, it's just going to

2:01

be a bunch of... right wingers who

2:03

are being silenced. I'm like, no, this

2:05

is left wingers telling me that like,

2:08

they can't critique someone who's building a

2:10

bridge and it's in all of health

2:12

care and it's all, and this is

2:15

like, this was, you couldn't even talk

2:17

about this. Yeah, that's right. And you

2:19

were like, send me some of this

2:21

stuff and. Not all of it has

2:24

been vetted, but I mean, it's pretty

2:26

clear that this was the case and

2:28

these were people who were at all

2:31

of these different institutions saying, and it's

2:33

basically DEA, like all this crap that

2:35

they're trying to get out. And they're

2:37

saying like this was happening and no

2:40

one believed them and they didn't feel

2:42

like they could say anything. Yeah, I

2:44

remember going to like Los Angeles, it

2:47

had to be before COVID because that

2:49

kind of kind of changed everything. I

2:51

mean being in Hollywood I guess so

2:53

we'd go out you know go to

2:56

one of the little bars or whatever

2:58

with a group of people and we'd

3:00

be just talking and then be like

3:02

shh don't talk like that yeah don't

3:05

everybody was like keep your head down

3:07

don't say stuff like that in public

3:09

yeah talk about it when we get

3:12

back to the to the apartment or

3:14

whatever and I was like what you

3:16

don't understand we're in Hollywood you can't

3:18

talk like that and I was like

3:21

okay yeah so lots of self-censorship censorship

3:23

I still have friends when we'll be

3:25

out to dinner that are here who

3:28

have all kind of, I guess they're

3:30

called Lefty Geez, like who have all

3:32

left California. They, they'll be like, I

3:34

still get nervous about talking and not

3:37

just from LA, from San Francisco as

3:39

well. Like they're like, I still get

3:41

nervous talking about this stuff in public.

3:43

I'm like, that's fucking crazy dude, that

3:46

you still have that fear to like.

3:48

talk about something and it's anything really

3:50

but it's wild we were I was

3:53

at a dinner in when I was

3:55

in LA right before the fires I

3:57

went there for my family still there

3:59

and we went for um we went

4:02

for just like the week of new

4:04

years and I went out to dinner

4:06

with some friends Megan Dom actually being

4:09

one of them and she I had

4:11

my back to the, there was a

4:13

couple seated like at a deuce kind

4:15

of right behind us and another person

4:18

that I won't blow up her spot.

4:20

And the three of us were talking,

4:22

but she's in the culture wars. And

4:25

the three of us were talking and

4:27

going on and I turned around, like

4:29

I just got that spidey sense and

4:31

I turned around and they both had

4:34

their phones in that weird way. And

4:36

I was like, are they fucking recording

4:38

us right now? And I wasn't. Sure

4:40

if they were or weren't or if

4:43

I was just being paranoid, but even

4:45

Megan was like I don't know they

4:47

might have been and it was just

4:50

so weird I'm like that because they

4:52

gave me that look of like you

4:54

caught me when I looked at them

4:56

because I like looked over my shoulder

4:59

and they were like and then they

5:01

were texting each other instead of talking

5:03

which is fucking weird too and I

5:06

was like I fucking hate this like

5:08

I haven't had to deal with this

5:10

at all. in Texas, I mean maybe,

5:12

maybe it would happen in Austin, but

5:15

it was weird. And I was like,

5:17

the other thing that I hate about

5:19

that whole environment of self-censorship and fear

5:22

is that it does make you paranoid.

5:24

It does. You're like, are they not

5:26

returning my call because they saw something

5:28

I tweeted or is it just because

5:31

they're busy? Because generally, most people are

5:33

so self-involved that it's just because they're

5:35

busy. It has nothing to do with

5:37

you. But in this kind of climate,

5:40

it might. Yeah, I've like, you know,

5:42

everybody I think has heard of, well,

5:44

maybe not everybody, but I think a

5:47

lot of people have heard of imposter

5:49

syndrome, right? Which is like, you get

5:51

your degree and you go get your

5:53

like little cutesy job or whatever, and

5:56

you believe that you're actually an idiot.

5:58

Yeah. But, you know, you got hired

6:00

to do, you know, whatever it is,

6:03

math or something hard. And then you

6:05

live your life at work, thinking every

6:07

day you're about to be discovered, you're

6:09

about to be discovered as the imposter,

6:12

You wonder if you're going to be

6:14

discovered that you're the bad person, the

6:16

evil person, the one who, you know,

6:19

has wrong opinions or wrong thoughts. And

6:21

it's like this weird, like you said,

6:23

there's this paranoia, like, are they not

6:25

calling me back? It's like, you know,

6:28

I sent him a tech. It's been

6:30

like two days, like that's kind of

6:32

weird, like are they mad at me?

6:34

What did I do? And yeah, there's

6:37

this weird vibe that comes with that.

6:39

Yeah, and it's unsettling because that paranoia

6:41

is so bad. It's something I just

6:44

had to like put completely aside. It's

6:46

like, all right, whatever the reason, it

6:48

just can't matter. You have to just

6:50

like keep moving forward and staying in

6:53

touch with people who are your... saying

6:55

touchstones and I think now you've been

6:57

kind of that was such a like

7:00

innocent time I remember going and seeing

7:02

your talk and being like you guys

7:04

need someone like me to like be

7:06

a translator to be take what you're

7:09

saying and try and because I was

7:11

sitting in the audience I'm like no

7:13

one understands what the fuck you guys

7:15

are talking about like no one knows

7:18

about cultural Marxism or like and I

7:20

also think you guys were new you

7:22

in particular at the speaking like you

7:25

have improved a lot over oh yeah

7:27

oh yeah in the past like I

7:29

guess what has it been now how

7:31

many years six years yeah it's been

7:34

a crazy decade you have a little

7:36

bit of practice now yes you've had

7:38

a lot of practice even to even

7:41

to just contextualize how insane the past

7:43

like But last time I saw you

7:45

I was single and now I am

7:47

married with a child. Yeah, that's right.

7:50

Like a lot can happen in a

7:52

short period of time. Oh, well, yeah,

7:54

it's like, well, it's almost like, I

7:57

actually literally did talk to a couple

7:59

comedians and that kind of helped me

8:01

learn how to talk. Yeah. By the

8:03

way, there's, you know, one guy was

8:06

like, you know, you're never gonna give

8:08

a really good talk until you bomb

8:10

at least once and just like let

8:12

it be you know like don't worry

8:15

about it if you go give like

8:17

a total bomb and so that's like

8:19

really relaxing but then it's like I

8:22

learned by especially watching comedians this idea

8:24

of just having a conversation with the

8:26

room yeah and so you learn to

8:28

read the room yeah kind of tell

8:31

when their eyes glaze over or when

8:33

you said too many syllables in one

8:35

you know breath or whatever That word

8:38

had a hyphen and they've checked out.

8:40

And so it's like, but it just

8:42

feels like I'm talking, like I'm talking

8:44

to you, but I'm talking to, you

8:47

know, 400 people or whatever. Yeah. And

8:49

that changed everything. And what is it

8:51

like to be somewhat, I mean, you

8:54

seem to like, how do you stay?

8:56

Sain, have you stayed sane? Have you

8:58

gone and say, there's word on the

9:00

street that you've lost your mind? There

9:03

is word on the street that I've

9:05

lost my mind, but I don't think

9:07

I have. I mean, would you know?

9:09

Yeah, that's the problem, right? Let's use

9:12

one of those big words. There's an

9:14

epistemological problem here, right? If you've lost

9:16

your mind, you're almost guaranteed not to

9:19

know it. to think you haven't, not

9:21

just not to know it, but to

9:23

think you didn't. And so I think

9:25

being still completely aware of that is

9:28

a good, you know, sanity check. Right.

9:30

No one who's lost their mind would

9:32

question if they've lost their mind. Yeah,

9:35

I question it like daily because, you

9:37

know, like, I'm like, am I getting

9:39

gaslit or am I nuts? Like, what's

9:41

going on? I would have been like,

9:44

wow, so I lose my mind in

9:46

the future. That's really unfortunate for me.

9:48

And now you're like so much winning,

9:50

I'm getting tired of winning. Yeah, there

9:53

is, it is, you have to, I

9:55

think this is a thing too that

9:57

happened with this election more than any

10:00

of them is that preference falsification that

10:02

everyone had where they were afraid to,

10:04

they were speaking in hushed tones about

10:06

these things, that it freed them to

10:09

be like, oh. No, everybody else is

10:11

on board with this. Yeah, I kind

10:13

of got the impression that that was

10:16

coming in April. Yeah. So my wife

10:18

and I and my company we all

10:20

went together on like a cruise, right?

10:22

And to the Caribbean. Well, it depends

10:25

on the boat. And it was a

10:27

big boat which means there I mean,

10:29

you got a little kid. So there

10:32

were a ton of little kids and

10:34

of loud music and a ton of

10:36

really bad cheap food that, you know,

10:38

left a little bit to be desired.

10:41

But at any rate, we were at

10:43

the, you know, the whole game when

10:45

you're on a cruise without great food,

10:47

by the way, is to just go

10:50

around to the different free food places

10:52

and try to find one that doesn't

10:54

suck. So you eat somewhere different, like

10:57

three times a day, four times a

10:59

day to try to find something. On

11:01

the boat, you're looking for something. And

11:03

they'd be like, it would be like

11:06

six old ladies and they'd be like,

11:08

well, split one cup of chowder, please,

11:10

just so they don't have to, because

11:13

you got all that free food on

11:15

me. And they just want to be

11:17

able to say they tried the chowder

11:19

and newborns. Like, I just became such

11:22

an anti-cruiser. So we were on this

11:24

boat, we're at the taco place, because

11:26

like the only place that you didn't

11:29

have to pay for extra that was

11:31

like worth eating. And we're sitting. There

11:33

were these two visible Democrat women. Like

11:35

purple hair? Yeah, like the whole thing,

11:38

like, you know, the way they were

11:40

dressed, like the style clothing. I want

11:42

to know at the like visible Democrat,

11:44

you know, criteria. The dress was a

11:47

little behemoth, you know, the piercings, not

11:49

all tattoos indicate visible Democrat, but some

11:51

do, you know, the hair, the colors

11:54

and the hair in particular. That's a

11:56

big sign. And they're talking with each

11:58

other, and you know, like the story

12:00

in LA, right? They're the next table

12:03

over. Well, we didn't bust out our

12:05

cameras in the film. But they just

12:07

keep saying, she's destroying the place. She

12:10

sucks, she sucks, she's awful. And we

12:12

kind of finally picked up that they

12:14

were talking about a governor. And there's

12:16

only really two choices. It's either Whitmer

12:19

or Hochle. So we went over and

12:21

we were like Whitmer or Hochle. And

12:23

they were like, Hochle? We're from Manhattan,

12:26

Visible Democrats. And then we talked to

12:28

him for a few minutes and they

12:30

were like, well, we're on, we're, we're.

12:32

totally Democrats were total leftists and we're

12:35

on a boat so we can say

12:37

it don't tell anybody we're voting for

12:39

Trump yeah we're done with it they

12:41

said Biden's ruined in the country Hokel's

12:44

ruined in the state and Adams is

12:46

ruined in the city yeah yeah I

12:48

was like oh there is something like

12:51

the preference falsification is now reaching deep

12:53

into Democrat strongholds yeah like something's going

12:55

to happen here yeah I wasn't I

12:57

also think one of the reasons that

13:00

I I was a little bit like

13:02

I wasn't really on the phone. People

13:04

are like, was it hard? Like, no,

13:07

it wasn't actually hard at all. I

13:09

do, I think part of the reason

13:11

that I felt compelled to vote was

13:13

that idea of like too big to

13:16

rig, even though my vote in Texas

13:18

wouldn't matter. I was like, I just

13:20

want to be part of the popular

13:22

vote. I want to be counted. I

13:25

want to be part of this, like,

13:27

the people who are like, fuck this.

13:29

Let's go. It's weird to be. You're

13:32

such a canary in the coal mine,

13:34

I can see how you would go,

13:36

insane, but I've seen you kind of

13:38

battling online a lot, I mean, always.

13:41

Always. Yeah. I ran into Dave Rubin

13:43

speaking of people the other day. I

13:45

was in DC around the inauguration, lurking.

13:48

Lurkin. Lurkin. Lurkin. Lurkin. I was, I

13:50

was kind of hiding, actually. But I

13:52

ran into Dave Rubin, and he just

13:54

comes up to me and he just

13:57

whispers. Can we make it through lunch

13:59

without you fighting with somebody else on

14:01

Twitter today? And I'm like, Dave, shut

14:04

up. I'm going to go fight with

14:06

you. Yeah. But I'm fighting on Twitter.

14:08

Yeah. Or X, X, it's X. Thank

14:10

you, Elon. What do you get out

14:13

of that? I think I have a

14:15

disability. You're like, there's some someone is

14:17

wrong on the internet. Is it that

14:19

disability? there's only particular kinds of like

14:22

bullshit that I won't leave alone and

14:24

I'm actually I got pretty good at

14:26

ignoring people that are like rude to

14:29

me except I think it's funny to

14:31

like make a joke about them right

14:33

or to make an it not to

14:35

make an example of them but to

14:38

make them into an example of something

14:40

I'm talking about like your haters will

14:42

prove your point very frequently for you

14:45

right and so I do a lot

14:47

of that it looks like fighting but

14:49

I'm not actually fighting but like like

14:51

gross misrepresentation of something that I've said

14:54

is something that for whatever reason, if

14:56

I see it, I can't leave it

14:58

alone, right? And I've solved this problem

15:01

basically, mostly by turning off notifications. So

15:03

it used to be that these guys

15:05

that have the bigger accounts, the smaller

15:07

accounts don't, but the bigger accounts would

15:10

come into my push notifications. And I'd

15:12

be like, oh, you, you know, bad

15:14

word, bad word. And then it's like,

15:16

I have to go say something. And

15:19

it's like, like, don't do it. and

15:21

have this little fight with myself, and

15:23

then I go and smart off, and

15:26

then the rest of my day sucks

15:28

because of it. And I'm finally figuring

15:30

out that this is actually not a

15:32

productive use of my time and activity,

15:35

so I'm trying to discipline myself against

15:37

these people. And I also notice that

15:39

they're trying, like, there are people definitely

15:42

trying to exploit that now. I somewhat

15:44

take responsibility for your... X habits. You

15:46

can have all over the blame. I

15:48

mean, they were really trying to rein

15:51

you in when you were with the

15:53

group. When we were in Aspen, I

15:55

was like, they were like, you can't

15:57

make jokes, you need to be taken

16:00

seriously. I was like, ah, whatever, you

16:02

can be funny on there. And then

16:04

I always say, like, take the work

16:07

seriously. I quote you on that all

16:09

the. time. It is it is something

16:11

that has been very helpful to me

16:13

but then when I see you going

16:16

off I'm like this is my fault.

16:18

Well some of it is because I

16:20

don't well another thing I learned is

16:23

I don't take myself seriously on social

16:25

media and another thing that I learned

16:27

is that if you can post something

16:29

you yourself knowing it's being made fun

16:32

of or kind of a joke or

16:34

whatever like let's say there's some picture

16:36

I don't know I don't have any

16:39

pictures of me that look bad but

16:41

let's say there was a picture of

16:43

me that looks bad a lot of

16:45

confident you are I posted the picture

16:48

of me that looked bad and made

16:50

fun of myself you become impervious to

16:52

other people making fun of it right

16:54

yeah or if maybe I don't know

16:57

you make a video with a giant

16:59

sword and you post that and you

17:01

make fun of yourself you become impervious

17:04

to So yeah, I mean I was

17:06

raised that way though. We were, I'm

17:08

Irish Catholic in our family. Did you

17:10

have like 40 brothers or something? No,

17:13

I have like 26 first cousins. That's

17:15

what I was. But yeah, we, my

17:17

whole family was, it was like, people

17:20

always ask me if I want to

17:22

do roast battle and I'm like, my

17:24

whole operating was roast battle. Yeah, right.

17:26

I have no desire to relive any

17:29

of that. But it was very much

17:31

like, like, you have to learn how

17:33

to laugh. and in green rooms, like

17:36

that's just, and on, on, like, job

17:38

sites, and this is where I feel

17:40

like the Democrats just completely last touch

17:42

with working class humor, is like, do

17:45

you know how people talk to each

17:47

other when they're working in a restaurant?

17:49

Do you know how people talk to

17:51

each other on job sites or like

17:54

firemen or in the military? Do you

17:56

have any friends in the military who

17:58

send you memes because they're fucked up?

18:01

Like do you know any Marines? Yeah

18:03

for real. No, so yeah it's your

18:05

it's your fault. No it is my

18:07

fault. But no I mean there's other

18:10

people we can blame too. But I

18:12

will say I'm lucky to have a

18:14

therapist husband because that is one thing

18:17

that drives me fucking insane. I'm like

18:19

I can I can deal with like

18:21

all of the pushback, the shit talk,

18:23

the calling me a grifter, all of

18:26

the things that come with being Open

18:28

Online, I'm not some victim, but when

18:30

someone like misrepresents me it makes me

18:33

insane and Jared is like Bridget, this

18:35

is. also part of it. Yeah, you

18:37

just remind, he's like, this is also

18:39

part of it. If you can't let

18:42

that go, like how can you let

18:44

go all this? He's like, this is

18:46

just someone calling you a grifter too.

18:48

It's all part of being a public

18:51

person and you just have to let

18:53

it go. And it's been helpful to

18:55

have someone who's like, this is part

18:58

of it. Yeah, that's right. Just let

19:00

it go. I'm going to have to

19:02

remember that. Yeah, like go step away

19:04

and you saved me though when Black

19:07

Twitter came for me. Oh yeah, that's

19:09

right. They were like, I didn't know,

19:11

I hadn't really experienced like internet pylons

19:14

like that and you texted me and

19:16

you were like log out for three

19:18

days and I was like, it was

19:20

the best advice because it just moved

19:23

on. Yeah, they get bored. Yeah, nothing

19:25

to make me money. I want to

19:27

send them a W-2 because like they

19:29

work for like I don't know what

19:32

maybe I got my tax forms wrong

19:34

I don't know but their entire business

19:36

is talking about me wow it's like

19:39

that's kind of cool I guess like

19:41

flattering I don't know could you get

19:43

a hobby what do you think are

19:45

the biggest criticisms What are the criticisms

19:48

of you that you feel are unfair?

19:50

What's the deal with you in the

19:52

the fucking woke right? To me, the

19:55

woke right is just the old right.

19:57

Can you like it? Well, it's the

19:59

alt right is what it was. Well,

20:01

it's, oh, okay. It's resurrected alt right.

20:04

I mean, that's like the simplest definition.

20:06

I hate that term, the woke right.

20:08

It makes me say it. There are

20:11

reasons, I'm sure. This is the thing

20:13

though. People think I'm like, though, people

20:15

think I'm like, though. I'm more than

20:17

happy to change if I can think

20:20

of a better one. I just can't.

20:22

But isn't it just like the right

20:24

being the right? No. So explain to

20:26

me how it's different. Well, the kids

20:29

would call them extra, right? They're not

20:31

just the right. They're like extra right.

20:33

But some of them have openly, we're

20:36

going to use big words again, but

20:38

they've openly subscribed to Marxist analysis. They've

20:40

openly subscribed to critical theory. but for

20:42

their ends, not for whatever the left

20:45

wants to do with it. They've openly

20:47

subscribed to postmodern. There are people that

20:49

describe themselves as postmodern traditionalists. Like, imagine,

20:52

you're mad at woke right? Try that

20:54

term, right? That doesn't even make sense

20:56

to me. That's a collision of two

20:58

concepts. That's like an oxymora. How do

21:01

that? but they're gonna love it anyway

21:03

and they're gonna make a like a

21:05

cartoon pastish version of it. We're gonna

21:08

be extra trad. We're gonna wear extra

21:10

like old-fashioned clothes and old spice or

21:12

whatever. I don't know what to do.

21:14

I don't hang out with these people.

21:17

They're hipsters though is what they are.

21:19

They're right wing hipsters. Oh that's interesting.

21:21

I mean it's time the right had

21:23

some hipsterishness. The thing that I do.

21:26

think that's happening in in balance is

21:28

that they're trying to have like an

21:30

intellectual side of the right yes and

21:33

they're trying to have the the hipster

21:35

side of the right it does I

21:37

do think yes but have you read

21:39

Moscow you I do think these things

21:42

need to emerge in order to find

21:44

some semblance of balance in the culture

21:46

it can't just be the left way

21:49

like my I guess my bigger question

21:51

is I'm still the guy that's like

21:53

maybe we need Less nerd shit. Are

21:55

you dealing with an HMO like I

21:58

am? It's such a pain in the

22:00

butt. If I want to get any

22:02

sort of testing done to ensure I'm

22:04

making my health a priority, I have

22:07

to wait weeks for an appointment to

22:09

see my doctor. Then get a referral

22:11

from her and wait weeks more for

22:14

an appointment with the specialists I needed

22:16

to see just to get some lab

22:18

work. Quest simplifies this process. I can

22:20

purchase my own lab tests online and

22:23

test for a multitude of health issues

22:25

I might be concerned. about, then take

22:27

those results to my doctor better armed

22:30

with the information I need. At Questhealth.com

22:32

you can get hundreds of tests across

22:34

several different categories from allergies to heart

22:36

health, hormones, sexual health, women's health tests

22:39

for egg quantity, perimenipoz, men's health tests

22:41

for testosterone, prostate, and so much more.

22:43

These are lab quality tests, the same

22:46

ones you'd be given at your doctor's

22:48

office, so prioritize your health, and visit

22:50

Questhealth.com today. Use the code walk-ins to

22:52

get 25% off and find answers to

22:55

the multitude of health questions you may

22:57

have. That's Questhealth.com and use the code

22:59

walk-ins for 25% off. Can you escape

23:01

post-modernism though? Like aren't we in... Isn't

23:04

it going to be an umbrella for

23:06

everything? That's a legitimate question. Are we

23:08

in post-modernity? Which therefore necessitate a theory?

23:11

of post-modernity that might be post-modernism. It

23:13

depends on what we, that's a very

23:15

complicated term, so it depends on what

23:17

we mean by it. And I don't

23:20

know, maybe we are in post-modernity because

23:22

of our democratization of publication, that's fancy

23:24

talk for, you can post on social

23:27

media. You can make a video, you

23:29

know, anybody can set up this kind

23:31

of studio literally in the room in

23:33

their house in a garage wherever they

23:36

want and have a TV show. Yeah.

23:38

Yeah, and get a press pass. Well,

23:40

I'm a little like, I wonder how

23:43

that's going to work out. I can't

23:45

wait. Hi, Bridget Fettice, dumpster fire, dumpster

23:47

fire. What are you going to do

23:49

the daylight savings time thing, please? When

23:52

are you going to abolish daylight saving

23:54

winter out of existence any time soon?

23:56

Can we make America Florida yet? But

23:58

yeah, so the media environment that we're

24:01

in is very democratized. It's very fake

24:03

like people don't know how fake social

24:05

media is And I don't mean fake

24:08

like, oh, there's advertisers and there's all,

24:10

no, no, no, it's profoundly fake. It

24:12

is like the algorithms are all driven

24:14

by like trending content. The trending content

24:17

is generated by networks of people who

24:19

are working together to self. and cross-promote

24:21

so that they get higher up in

24:24

the monetization scheme on X, which by

24:26

the way is gaming that system, which

24:28

is why Elon sometimes takes away their

24:30

checks, and then they say, you're censoring

24:33

me from my opinion. No, they're not.

24:35

You're gaming his freaking payout system, which

24:37

costs him lots of money, but that

24:40

creates the trends that the algorithm then

24:42

traces, is very much driven by... fake

24:44

real activity as in real humans interacting

24:46

together like hey I get in a

24:49

text group with you you whatever things

24:51

you want blown up send her to

24:53

me and I'll send her to so

24:55

and so and you know we get

24:58

a group chat together of 30 of

25:00

us and we all you know half

25:02

a million a million followers each or

25:05

whatever we all retweet each other all

25:07

the time comment on everything even if

25:09

we don't agree just whatever to keep

25:11

the keep the thing going so much

25:14

of it's driven by that and then

25:16

we haven't talked about bots because the

25:18

bot problem is Nuts, and I don't

25:21

know if it's, I don't know if

25:23

it's fixable. You can buy bots, anybody

25:25

can buy bots. Foreign governments have legions

25:27

of bots. Yeah. Like, China has, I

25:30

mean, the Chinese bots are kind of

25:32

funny, they're not very good. Yeah. And

25:34

if you figure you have one and

25:36

you reply anything and simplify Chinese, they'll

25:39

reply back to you and simplify Chinese

25:41

and say something like, you know, we're

25:43

gonna crush America. You know, something very

25:46

crazy. like they're and they're very radical

25:48

they're very radical you can see it

25:50

is true like you're like oh Ukraine

25:52

woke up or whatever like yeah right

25:55

when you're like suddenly something's trending yeah

25:57

you're like oh it's 9 a.m. in

25:59

Moscow that's right total well yeah and

26:02

so They're much more sophisticated. They are

26:04

actively trying to use bot networks to

26:06

radicalize the right. And a lot of

26:08

people are thinking, this is a huge

26:11

social movement. There's tons of like frog

26:13

accounts on Twitter that are saying the

26:15

same thing. And it's, you know, some

26:18

room full of Russian guys with 75

26:20

phones each in front of them, putting

26:22

out thousands of accounts. And it's only

26:24

about a hundred, you could have like

26:27

roughly 10,000 accounts verified on X for

26:29

about $100,000 a year. If you do

26:31

the math, it's a little more than

26:33

that, but you know, order of magnitude.

26:36

That's not a big investment for a

26:38

government. The Chinese government spends $16 billion

26:40

a year on influenced campaigns against the

26:43

West. 16 billion. This is why I

26:45

don't buy this idea that... You know

26:47

the whole the whole China thing is

26:49

interesting because I I don't know how

26:52

like I I was kind of on

26:54

board with Trump wanting to ban tic-tock

26:56

and then he went back on it

26:59

and now you hear a lot of

27:01

the people going well we need to

27:03

have like multi-powers and it's in it's

27:05

in the benefit of America and and

27:08

the world for America and China to

27:10

be friends and I'm like I don't

27:12

think China sees it that way. That

27:15

is not how China sees it. You

27:17

might think that and that's great. Yeah,

27:19

we can be buddies. But I don't

27:21

think the CCP sees it that way.

27:24

Yeah, they see it like, hey, let's

27:26

be friends, you know, fingers crossed. Like,

27:28

come on, guys. They are a communist

27:30

country. They're not your friend. They are

27:33

not even your trading partner, like in

27:35

business. I know that you make, that's

27:37

the thing is the biggest. consumer market

27:40

in the world. Yeah. And it's the

27:42

biggest manufacturing base in the world. And

27:44

that should be making Americans feel like,

27:46

oh no. But instead they're like, money.

27:49

Yes. And that was one of my

27:51

questions was, is that why all those

27:53

guys were up with Trump at the

27:56

inauguration? Like, are they hoping to enter

27:58

into the market in China, which really

28:00

for them would, is it just... like

28:02

you know you keep hearing this word

28:05

reciprocity like from Elon and is there

28:07

it's bullshit that like they have their

28:09

stuff here and we don't have our

28:11

stuff there so my question is are

28:14

they going to sell out all of

28:16

the Americans and all of our information

28:18

to China in order to get in

28:21

there look at Boeing Yeah. I mean,

28:23

so this is, you know, we

28:25

can speculate all we want about

28:27

Boeing, but this was something that

28:30

was said on Tim Poole's show,

28:32

on Tim Kast, by a former

28:34

Democratic congressman. Kucinich? No.

28:37

Yeah, Dennis Kucinich. And so

28:39

they were sitting there talking

28:41

about, like, I don't know, people

28:43

coming and asking for lobbying and all

28:45

of this crap. And he said that

28:47

it used to be, he's retired congressmen,

28:49

so it used to be that people

28:51

would come into his office, he said,

28:53

from Boeing, and they were trying to

28:55

get him to change a law that

28:57

allowed Boeing to be able to basically

28:59

show technology to the Chinese, but the

29:01

reason was because Boeing wouldn't. couldn't sell

29:04

airplanes in China unless they had a

29:06

deal where China made the landing gear

29:08

or whatever piece of technology it was

29:10

for them to install on the aircraft.

29:12

And so they had to be able

29:14

to like show some kind of like

29:16

trade secret to China to gain access

29:18

to the Chinese market, but that was

29:20

technically illegal because it was a sanctioned

29:22

communist country. And so they were trying to

29:25

get Congress to work around that. And now Boeing

29:27

is a up. shit creek you might have noticed

29:29

they've now decommissioned the they've made their

29:31

last seven i mean this is a little

29:33

technical but their last seven seven seven three

29:35

hundred er they're not making anymore it doesn't

29:37

look like they're like crashing or the news

29:39

is saying they're crashing all over the place

29:41

there's all these Boeing problems they get this

29:44

huge attack last time i was here in

29:46

Austin i was on rogan show and i

29:48

gave him this whole like rundown i was

29:50

like no what they're there what's happening is

29:52

the chinese manufacturer Comac is rising and they're

29:54

stealing Boeing technology and it's like they thought

29:56

there was like oh we want to make

29:58

lots of money we'll be friends with China,

30:00

you know, or whatever, let them make

30:02

the landing gear, which is already scary

30:04

enough because then they get all the

30:07

technology to build advanced landing gear. Right.

30:09

And I don't know if that also

30:11

involved, you know, that's all commercial. I

30:13

don't know if it also involved, you

30:15

know, Boeing's military contract stuff to be

30:17

able to get into the market. So

30:20

if you think that if these guys,

30:22

if these guys think there's going to

30:24

ever be reciprocity with a... totalitarian

30:26

closed-door system that firewalls everything like

30:29

they're releasing what is it red

30:31

note which is actually literally little

30:33

red book yeah like shau hong

30:36

shu they're releasing this into the

30:38

United States there whatever with Tik-Tok

30:40

that one's like and then they're

30:43

new AI now they got their

30:45

deep CKi and it's like screwing

30:48

up our stock market or whatever

30:50

and meanwhile you can't even like

30:52

open Twitter in China yeah Like you

30:54

have to have like a VP, there's not

30:56

going to be reciprocity. Yeah. The thing

30:59

with, which one was it? Was it

31:01

was with red note? With little red

31:03

book. They literally freaked out because all

31:05

these Westerners jumped on so quickly in

31:07

some weird coordinated push mostly among conservatives.

31:10

by the way, which is super weird,

31:12

all this pro-cCP propaganda coming from conservatives

31:14

all of a sudden, and they all

31:16

jump onto this thing, and then the

31:19

Chinese are like, oh crap, Chinese people

31:21

can see Western content, and they're scrambling

31:23

to shut that down. There's, this is

31:25

not, this is not how they play, right?

31:28

Some of the funniest videos were

31:30

like the Chinese people being like,

31:32

get your gay shit out of here, basically.

31:35

Take your content away from

31:37

here. We don't want it. I

31:39

mean, they've been using the word Bysaw

31:41

for a long time, white left. Yeah.

31:43

And they don't like like kick Nick

31:46

Fuentes off like that. And he

31:48

was like, ugh. I want to go there

31:50

because it doesn't censor me and they put it

31:52

in before he posted anything. Why do you

31:54

attribute that? What do you think that is

31:57

going on with the kind of right wing

31:59

Chinese propaganda? or even like Russian

32:01

propaganda in some respects. They're

32:04

kind of a handful of

32:06

explanations. Because I thought they were

32:08

like America first people, so I

32:10

would think you would be more

32:12

isolationist and which I understand. I

32:15

understand the isolationist part. I don't

32:17

understand the I guess is it

32:19

just like we like dictators? Do

32:21

you understand we like money? Do

32:23

you understand capitalism always wins?

32:26

Yeah, do you understand that

32:28

we like money? I do understand

32:31

that. Apparently not enough because I'm

32:33

not rich. That is not the

32:35

only kind of explanation, but that

32:38

is a very simple explanation. Some

32:40

people might be, I have no

32:42

evidence of anybody, I'm not accusing

32:45

anybody, some people probably are

32:47

in fact being paid. the Chinese

32:49

as the stereotype goes are tricky.

32:51

You may not have, you know, some

32:54

guy whose last name is Chan

32:56

showing up and like with a

32:58

briefcase with a briefcase in a

33:00

checkbook would you like to write

33:02

some tweets for us? Yeah from

33:04

Costco. You're probably going to have

33:06

somebody that's not directly connected who's

33:08

you know a couple layers in

33:10

would you let's like the tenant

33:12

media thing right? 10 million dollars

33:14

coming in from Russia. That was

33:16

like some random European guy that

33:18

had no real history at all.

33:20

Like even that was a little

33:22

suspicious. little suspicious. Like I would

33:24

love to know what was going

33:27

on not to call him out

33:29

but in Timpool's mind when it

33:31

was like we're going to give

33:33

you a hundred thousand dollars

33:35

a week and this is

33:37

totally normal. He justifies it

33:39

though. I know. He's like you know

33:41

this is these are average rates for

33:43

someone of his caliber. Oh, my God.

33:45

I mean. caliber. But yeah,

33:48

I mean, those are, if

33:50

you're getting millions of downloads,

33:52

you can command hundreds of

33:54

thousands of dollars in. I guess,

33:57

I mean, nobody ever asks me

33:59

for this. I think they know that

34:01

I would rat them out. For as much

34:03

of grifters as we are called,

34:05

we really suck at it. I am like,

34:07

the worst ever grifters. I'm like, I

34:09

can't believe I can't call the

34:12

grifter on line. Yeah, no joke,

34:14

right? It's like, they're like, who

34:16

pays you? There's some rumor,

34:18

by the way, you know,

34:20

you asked me earlier, what

34:22

I get misrepresented with, but

34:24

there's a rumor, this isn't

34:26

a misrepresenting. People think Israel's

34:28

paying me, they think the

34:30

CCP's paying me, they think

34:33

that I have all these like

34:35

weird shadowy funders, and I'm

34:37

like, I wish. Dude, what

34:39

are you talking about? No,

34:41

I have Patreon, like please

34:44

send $5, you know. Yeah, like,

34:46

do you think I'd be like,

34:48

I am one day away from

34:51

going on. What's that's fucking sight

34:53

cameo? Yeah, right. Like I'm

34:55

just a couple more

34:57

nervous breakdowns away from

35:00

cameo. Yeah, that's right.

35:02

So what do you attribute

35:04

like that? What do you

35:06

consider the woke right? And

35:09

here's my issue with what

35:11

I see sometimes from the

35:13

new. Like this, I also hate

35:16

this term, the IDW. Well,

35:18

that's a word I haven't

35:20

heard a while. I know, it's

35:22

so due to 2018. But that

35:25

kind of space as they, you

35:27

know, I'm not part of that

35:29

because I'm just part of

35:32

the dark web part. Let's

35:34

say that people got pushed

35:36

right. I think. even I'm not

35:39

a conservative by any means,

35:41

but I would feel I

35:43

think the criticism is that

35:45

these people are now trying

35:47

to gate keep the right in a

35:49

way that seems like it's because

35:52

of moral reasons or purity reasons

35:54

or we need to purge some

35:56

of the badness on the right

35:59

when really It's just like competing

36:01

for market share. Yeah, there's I think

36:03

a lot of puritanism as competing for

36:05

market share going on. The right seems

36:07

to have, you know, realized I think

36:09

ahead of the game that it was

36:11

going to get a taste of power.

36:13

Now it has. I don't know what

36:15

it means to say the right has

36:17

power. Trump has power. I don't know

36:19

what the hell you're talking about, but

36:21

the right has power and they've all

36:24

gone nuts. And you can definitely see

36:26

that scramble to be who's going to

36:28

be at the top of the pile,

36:30

who's going to be near the White

36:32

House, who's going to be this, who's

36:34

going to be that. I love it.

36:36

And that's typical, but the amount of

36:38

mind losing. It's like, I think. There

36:40

are there are elements where it has

36:42

been led where it has been orchestrated

36:44

like I mentioned the Russian propaganda the

36:46

bots are very extreme a lot of

36:48

the Nazi content on X is coming

36:51

from Russian sources That's designed to drag

36:53

in unfortunately our veterans and Teenage boys

36:55

primarily into that crap and Why they

36:57

have like willing compatriots in the? conservative

36:59

movement, I'm not entirely sure, but I

37:01

like money too. So I'm assuming that's

37:03

what it is. But what, you can

37:05

get dragged along in this kind of

37:07

like enthusiasm, right? You can don't, money

37:09

doesn't have, you have to be involved.

37:11

Right. And then. you've got to figure

37:13

out how to compete for market share

37:15

and being a little edgier and a

37:18

little hard I'm not just rejecting the

37:20

left I'm rejecting it a little harder

37:22

everything in fact maybe that the left

37:24

said that was bad some of it's

37:26

actually good maybe in fact mustache man

37:28

was good you know and they go

37:30

on and on and on and well

37:32

the thing is it doesn't matter like

37:34

the old saying is it doesn't really

37:36

matter there's no such thing as bad

37:38

press right all presses good press just

37:40

spell my name right and If they

37:42

come out and say something, like everything

37:45

we learned about World War II was

37:47

a lie, or that maybe the mustache

37:49

man had some, that's Hitler, for people

37:51

not paying attention, had some good solutions,

37:53

then they're going to go viral. They're

37:55

going to go viral because they did

37:57

the edgy thing. And people are going

37:59

to, some people, 90% of them are

38:01

going to be met. There's a book

38:03

about this style of marketing that allegedly,

38:05

I don't know if it's true that

38:07

Milo Xenopolis allegedly studied in order to

38:09

do his kind of shock jock thing

38:12

10 years ago. That book was called,

38:14

trust me, I'm lying. People can look

38:16

it up. It's an interesting read. But

38:18

it's like, I don't know, it's like,

38:20

if this dark tone should even be

38:22

out there here after I've ever recommended

38:24

I've recommended it. people do know about

38:26

this right but this kind of and

38:28

so you want to be able to

38:30

insulate yourself or inoculate yourself against you

38:32

know this kind of manipulation but the

38:34

fact is that edge lording is its

38:36

own energy right yeah if you're trying

38:39

to compete to have like the biggest

38:41

show that gets the most views you're

38:43

not going to get a clip that

38:45

goes like mega viral unless you say

38:47

something a little bit out there yeah

38:49

and there becomes this competition and then

38:51

there's like I'm not joking I think

38:53

there's actually like the dynamics with the

38:55

young men and women, I think there's

38:57

a sexual dynamic to it, not in

38:59

the direct sense, but sexual competition, right?

39:01

So you have young women who are

39:03

rightly horrified by some of the very

39:06

awful things they're seeing with crime from

39:08

illegal immigrants and so on, they want

39:10

to feel safe, and then you have

39:12

guys that are like, I won't just

39:14

deport them, I'll deport them all, I'll

39:16

find the legal ones to get ready

39:18

with the wrong color skin, I'll get

39:20

rid of them too for you for

39:22

you for you, do the edgier, harder

39:24

thing more to impress the girl who's

39:26

kind of, they're all kind of dipping

39:28

in this, this madness together. I think

39:30

that that's actually part of how they've

39:33

radicalized themselves. But I cannot leave out

39:35

that this is also driven. There are,

39:37

if that's like a bunch of, we'll

39:39

say sheep moving in a direction, there

39:41

are sheep dogs and there are guys

39:43

with whips. Making it go where they

39:45

want it to go behind it and

39:47

those people are foreign governments They might

39:49

they might be deep state They might

39:51

just be you know people who want

39:53

to see the world burn. I don't

39:55

know who they are Yeah, I do

39:57

know the foreign governments do this for

40:00

certain. Yeah Yeah, there's it's funny to

40:02

see how it reminds me because they,

40:04

you know, Trump has power, yes, but

40:06

the thing that I'm most fascinated with

40:08

because it is more my lane is

40:10

just like culture. And as I've mentioned

40:12

many times before at this point on

40:14

this podcast, I've never lived through a

40:16

time where the right was cool. Yeah.

40:18

That's just not, and I can't think

40:20

of a time in America when that

40:22

was even the case. So yes, they

40:24

may have had some power politically and

40:27

they may have had power in the

40:29

judicial power Supreme Court. But when was

40:31

it that like they were, you know,

40:33

people were doing like the Trump dance

40:35

and athletes and like the young men

40:37

are kind of like, yay, you know,

40:39

right wing. generally there is that old

40:41

saying of like if you're not a

40:43

leftist in your 20s you know and

40:45

if you're not and this has been

40:47

completely inverted. Yeah it's a complete inversion

40:49

it's flipped over on its head and

40:51

that's a ton of energy and some

40:54

of it's very organic and real and

40:56

some of it's going to get co-opted

40:58

because I mean look at A lot

41:00

of people don't understand it, so it

41:02

talked about social media being very fake.

41:04

If something divisive starts to go viral,

41:06

some debate or something starts to go

41:08

viral, it doesn't matter what the issue

41:10

is. And there's going to be people

41:12

like, you know, women shouldn't be in

41:14

the kitchen, women should be in the

41:16

kitchen, what it could be in the

41:18

kitchen, what it could be, anything like

41:21

that. Repeal the 19th. influence networks on

41:23

that within hours right and they're seating

41:25

right they'll do is get in people's

41:27

replies and you know you got one

41:29

guy with 75 phones or whatever and

41:31

what he's going to do or 75

41:33

accounts what he's going to do is

41:35

three fairly reasonable comments that agree with

41:37

your position and then one that's like

41:39

you know gas the juice and and

41:41

they do this is the strategy that

41:43

but I get it I mean it's

41:45

an unexpected thing to have said in

41:47

that moment but yeah that's that's the

41:50

strategy though right is to take it

41:52

to the next thing like to just

41:54

seed the next more extreme thing So

41:56

you're getting all this affirmation in your

41:58

replies for the extreme thing that you've

42:00

already declared or for the extreme position

42:02

that they want to Like take further

42:04

and then a handful some percentage 510

42:06

20% of the replies are going to

42:08

get more extreme and they tend to

42:10

get more extreme over time Here's an

42:12

example not of that specific thing, but

42:14

where you can see there was over

42:17

Christmas almost everybody saw this ridiculous debate

42:19

about H1B visas. They just came out

42:21

of nowhere, right? Well, you could see

42:23

it started with some influencers and then

42:25

it started to get really ugly and

42:27

then it got really like, do we

42:29

really believe this? And then all of

42:31

a sudden, I suddenly did see the

42:33

end. Well, what I saw though was

42:35

a bunch of the influencers who were

42:37

very hard in the paint at the

42:39

beginning. We're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, who.

42:41

You could see they lost control of

42:44

it, right? I guess what

42:46

happened. I mean, I don't have

42:48

proof that I can, you know,

42:50

produce for you, but I can

42:52

guess what happened. What happened? An

42:54

influence network decided probably Katari or

42:56

Russian or... Pakistani, Pakistan hates India,

42:58

who hates India, like start, you

43:01

know, doing the math, you know,

43:03

who can disrupt it, gets involved

43:05

and starts pushing the issue and

43:07

taking it deliberately steps further than

43:09

it's supposed to go over the

43:11

course of three or four days

43:13

to where all of a sudden

43:15

the influencers who started the whole

43:17

thing are like, whoa, what's happening,

43:19

right? And this wasn't what we

43:22

were saying. You can see that

43:24

they can lose control of it.

43:26

I think the reason for that

43:28

isn't that the debate lost control

43:30

of itself, but rather that there

43:32

are entities pouring gasoline or spraying

43:34

gasoline like flames there are into

43:36

it to drive it in particular

43:38

directions. Yeah, that's what's interesting is

43:40

you have the influencers who are

43:43

kind of like leading the sheep,

43:45

but then they lose control of

43:47

the sheep at some point. I

43:49

mean, that's like the story of

43:51

like every mob ever, right? Yeah.

43:53

Yeah. So what is your concern?

43:55

What is your concern with the

43:57

right? Like why did you kind

43:59

of come up? this is there

44:01

a real Christian nationalist problem that

44:04

we should be concerned with or

44:06

is it over rot? Well according

44:08

to the pastors I'm talking to

44:10

around the country because I speak

44:12

at a lot of churches now

44:14

maybe that's ironic I don't know

44:16

but I speak in a ton

44:18

of churches and I talk to

44:20

a lot of pastors and this

44:23

this same issue it's like a

44:25

lot of them are telling me

44:27

this is the number one issue

44:29

now in their church that young

44:31

men under 40 are almost You

44:33

know, you almost can't talk to

44:35

him. They don't want to hear

44:37

anything from anybody that's elder in

44:39

the church. They have very radical

44:41

views. A lot of them don't

44:44

even have families or relationships and

44:46

don't seem to want one. They're

44:48

just... there and kind of intense

44:50

and that this is a leading

44:52

problem at least in certain areas

44:54

in the country northern Idaho northern

44:56

Utah yeah parts of Arizona and

44:58

Florida my first guess would have

45:00

been northern Idaho by the way

45:02

they call it literally the Moscow

45:05

mood you got the glass I

45:07

said almost had mule copper mug

45:09

but That even the pastor who

45:11

started that shout out to Russia

45:13

by the way Yeah, there you

45:15

go Even the past signing to

45:17

them do they have ginger beer

45:19

like natively in Russia though. I

45:21

don't think they do I don't

45:23

know I don't know But I

45:26

think I said that he would

45:28

get oranges to grow in Siberia

45:30

if given long enough to teach

45:32

them Soviet theory So maybe you

45:34

could get the lime at least

45:36

No, even the pastor who kind

45:38

of started that Moscow mood Northern

45:40

Idaho thing, Doug Wilson, is now

45:42

like, holy crap, they all hate

45:44

Jews, what do I do? And

45:47

like, I just saw a video

45:49

this morning while I was flying

45:51

in today. I'm like, he's talking

45:53

and he's like, this is wrong

45:55

guys, like, he's lost control of

45:57

it, right? It's gone beyond him.

45:59

And so I'm hearing that this

46:01

is a major problem in kind

46:03

of the church networks all over,

46:05

with a lot of like Southeast

46:08

Tennessee. Again, the same, I have

46:10

friends in both areas who are

46:12

saying this is like a major

46:14

problem in our churches. So I

46:16

think it's- Is it anti-Semitism? Some,

46:18

but it's mostly this like, we

46:20

can't vote our way out of

46:22

this, like this weird, like black

46:24

pill, everything's despair, we need very

46:27

radical solutions, you know, almost- But

46:29

also God? in a manner of

46:31

speaking, usually very strict interpretations of

46:33

what God doesn't, doesn't like. It's

46:35

almost, you know, getting into that

46:37

kind of almost puritanical flavor with

46:39

these guys. And what I'm hearing

46:41

those... Like, it sounds a little

46:43

bit like any religion, religious extremism

46:45

is just, it sounds like I'm

46:48

gonna be in a burka soon,

46:50

you know? Yeah, right. And this,

46:52

so you asked me really kind

46:54

of like, what am I worried

46:56

about... with this whole broader phenomenon.

46:58

I think the Christian nationalist issue,

47:00

however big it is, is embedded.

47:02

It's like the Narnian version, because

47:04

I call the Christian world Narnia,

47:06

which they take as flattering, which

47:09

I'm glad they do, because I

47:11

sort of mean it that way.

47:13

But it's also removed, right? The

47:15

mainstream America does not know what's

47:17

going on in the Southern Baptist

47:19

Convention and does not care. But

47:21

it's like big politics inside the

47:23

Southern Baptist or inside Narnia, right?

47:25

The Christian nationalist thing is like

47:27

the Narnian version of the bigger

47:30

woke-right phenomenon, post-liberal wanting to, you

47:32

know, think of a new order

47:34

that doesn't follow, you know, individual

47:36

liberty and property rights as the

47:38

primary drivers and so on. And

47:40

what I'm afraid of, in fact,

47:42

with a lot of the radicalism

47:44

in particular, I don't think that

47:46

this is meant to win. I

47:48

don't actually have a sincere fear

47:51

yet that, you know, we're going

47:53

to... lurch into, you know, 1933,

47:55

1934, Germany, all of a sudden.

47:57

What I'm actually more concerned about

47:59

is that in 2026. the year

48:01

of our Lord next year, we

48:03

now have an election in which

48:05

a lot of people were scared

48:07

and held their nose and said,

48:10

I'll vote for Trump. And they're

48:12

going to be like, whoops, time

48:14

to vote for Democrats again. Right,

48:16

right. Right. And all the Democrats

48:18

have to do and they're not

48:20

doing a great job so far.

48:22

But all they have to do

48:24

is remain modestly sane. They can't

48:26

though. The culture side can't, but

48:28

the politicians can. The politicians can

48:31

come in and just say straight

48:33

economic populism, they can blame. Everything

48:35

on Elon Musk gets the billionaires,

48:37

it's the billionaires, it's the billionaires,

48:39

and start to sound totally sane.

48:41

and hit that, you know, Bernie

48:43

Bro base and get them reactivated

48:45

that it's not all about race

48:47

and sex and sexuality. They can

48:49

even start to find ways. That

48:52

Bernie Bro base voted for Trump

48:54

though. I know. The goal I

48:56

think would be to bring them

48:58

back. I mean, this is what

49:00

I've been saying. Well, they might

49:02

be down with the anti-Semitism, I

49:04

don't know. like the Palestine stuff

49:06

is so embedded in that the

49:08

young people to be for you

49:10

know to have rightfully empathy for

49:13

the suffering of the Palestinian people

49:15

without and this was something that

49:17

I notice even amongst normies in

49:19

my own life is that they

49:21

would send me these videos from

49:23

certain huge influencers just asking questions

49:25

just asking questions you know why

49:27

well why Why is this? But

49:29

they don't know enough about the

49:31

history of anti-Semitism to recognize that

49:34

it's actually anti-Semitism. So they'll be

49:36

sending me a video. I'm like,

49:38

this is an ancient anti-Semitic trope.

49:40

And they're like, no, it's just

49:42

like, they're just asking questions. And

49:44

so this is... Imagine... You're being

49:46

somebody that's at peacetime in your

49:48

day-to-day life being exposed to outright

49:50

war propaganda in a war that

49:52

you don't understand with historical context

49:55

that you don't have and how

49:57

you'd react to it. But also

49:59

like on TikTok these kids don't

50:01

think Helen Keller was real. You

50:03

know like there's... That reminds me

50:05

though, do you know why Helen

50:07

Keller wasn't good at driving? Do

50:09

I want to know? Because she's

50:11

a woman. I was talking to

50:14

Cat D just yesterday for this

50:16

podcast and I love her takes

50:18

and thoughts on media and whatnot

50:20

and she thinks there's going to

50:22

be some kind of re-centralization or

50:24

legacy media is going to have

50:26

to reassert itself because it's so

50:28

fractured that no one knows what

50:30

to believe anywhere but I'm I

50:32

feel like that's very optimistic to

50:35

think that I'm like, I don't

50:37

think there's any going back. But

50:39

so how does one, how does

50:41

one mentally inoculate themselves in order

50:43

to, and I was talking to

50:45

this about my husband, like you'll

50:47

hear something from someone who's maybe

50:49

got some extreme views, and then

50:51

they have views that you're like,

50:53

well, they're not wrong about that,

50:56

but how do you. How do

50:58

you navigate this time as just

51:00

a normy? That's insanely hard. And

51:02

by the way, my phrase for

51:04

that is we are the fake

51:06

news now, because it's like we're

51:08

the media now, so we always

51:10

hear from the conservators. I know.

51:12

No, we're the fake news now,

51:14

guys. We're the fake news now,

51:17

guys. We're the fake news now.

51:19

I just love that you're like,

51:21

well, the New York Times is

51:23

bullshit, so I'm going to believe

51:25

this. How much is it going

51:27

to cost? Like life-changing money for

51:29

that guy is like $60,000. Whereas

51:31

what are you going to do

51:33

with the New York Times editor?

51:35

And for all you want to

51:38

say about these publications, you've worked

51:40

with them, I've written for the...

51:42

Atlantic, they do actual fact-checking, you

51:44

know, like they will reach out

51:46

to people in your past and

51:48

say, did Bridget go to this

51:50

high school? The fact-checking, at least

51:52

on that, is really rigorous. Yeah.

51:54

I mean, some of it's mental,

51:57

but it is rigorous. Like they

51:59

check everything. Yeah. And there's not

52:01

that on a podcast. Turns out

52:03

we're not fact checking anything. Actually,

52:05

let's give you some credit because

52:07

Rogan does. Rogan does. I said

52:09

something on his show one time

52:11

and I got like called a

52:13

few days later and like, can

52:15

you provide a source for this

52:18

thing because it's the one thing

52:20

we can't find? And I'm like,

52:22

you guys looked it all up?

52:24

And they're like, yeah, we check

52:26

every single claim. And they couldn't

52:28

find it. So I sent him

52:30

the citation. paper, not Rogan, I

52:32

think is a Jamie or whatever,

52:34

sent in the paper. I'm like,

52:36

oh, okay, there it is, okay.

52:39

I don't need to check everything,

52:41

but you know, if it sounds

52:43

pretty out there, they check it.

52:45

But how do you navigate this?

52:47

You've got to slow down, first

52:49

of all, the pressure to like

52:51

throw takes or gasoline on the

52:53

fire like right now to get

52:55

involved to like the Twitter expert

52:57

phenomenon, you know, like, I don't

53:00

know. there was a gas leak

53:02

somewhere so now everybody's a expert

53:04

in gas things like today like

53:06

immediately within five minutes everybody on

53:08

the internet got a PhD in

53:10

gas fittings and it's my favorite

53:12

part of the internet right it's

53:14

like people who want to understand

53:16

what's going on have got it

53:18

like there's got to be some

53:21

stepping back yeah um Jesse Kelly

53:23

talks about that a lot For

53:25

example with any huge like a

53:27

school shooting or something happens. He's

53:29

like pause pause you don't have

53:31

to talk about this for 48

53:33

hours Let some dust settle. Yeah,

53:35

you know, let's see where it

53:37

goes before you have to just

53:39

dive in so actually that's pulling

53:42

some heat out of the kind

53:44

of you know Escalation the fire

53:46

that's raging around these issues, but

53:48

You have to almost double check

53:50

off multiple sources virtually everything which

53:52

is you know on the one

53:54

hand we get to do our

53:56

own Now on the other hand

53:58

it turns out research is hard

54:01

and it ups the level of

54:03

research that you have to do

54:05

of course But people don't really

54:07

know how to do research. This is what

54:09

my husband is saying He's like people who

54:11

do their own research like don't know actually

54:13

even how to do research And I used

54:15

to tell people you know you should

54:17

of course find some people who you

54:19

know having the past provided receipts and

54:21

shown that they know what they're talking

54:23

about, but that's not good enough anymore.

54:25

Yeah, right because it's actually really easy

54:28

to go like string together a bunch

54:30

of crap you found on five different

54:32

Wikipedia sites and like create a convincing

54:34

story about some war that you don't

54:36

know anything about or just to like say

54:38

seven true things and then three really out there

54:40

things on the back end of it. And you

54:42

think, well, that guy was really

54:44

credible, you know? And then all of

54:46

a sudden... We're to take something that

54:49

isn't hidden. It's just not studied as

54:51

much as something else and say, oh,

54:53

this is hidden because it's a conspiracy.

54:55

It's like, well, no, we all know about

54:57

this. Well, that's a big one. People got

55:00

to watch out for, which is the, they

55:02

don't want you to know that, therefore it's

55:04

true. approach is really bad, right?

55:06

But the fucking mainstream media did

55:08

this. They sure did. I'm furious

55:10

at them for it because they

55:13

broke people's brains over COVID. They

55:15

lied. All these journalists abdicated their

55:17

duties of just pursuing truth and

55:19

trying to get go viral or

55:22

trying to be on the right

55:24

side of history or be with

55:26

the right party or go to

55:28

the right parties. And now there's

55:30

you don't really know who or

55:33

what to believe. It's very very

55:35

difficult. And it's very easy to

55:37

manipulate a population like that.

55:39

That's right. And a lot of

55:42

people who have good heads on

55:44

their shoulders don't want to deal

55:46

with it and check out. And I do,

55:48

this is where I am I one of

55:50

those people. The check out people?

55:53

Who's been manipulating? Oh, yeah, we

55:55

all are. Yeah. Absolutely. We all

55:57

are. And it's like, again, are

55:59

you know. If the algorithm is

56:01

just feeding us what we want,

56:03

aren't we all radicalizing ourselves? I

56:06

was like, we are. We are.

56:08

Well, to your question about, you know,

56:10

were you manipulating voting for Trump? The

56:12

answer is maybe, but shall we watch

56:15

a few videos of Kamala Harris? Can

56:17

it bring you back to Earth? But

56:19

also, you have the lies about him. Oh,

56:21

yeah. It should be a fucking huge scandal.

56:23

Well, I mean, so you asked me about

56:26

me being misrepresented. This

56:28

is like, like, I wake up. Who am I

56:30

today according to the internet,

56:32

right? Internet.com says that I

56:34

am now, the biggest misrepresentation

56:36

to answer that question was that

56:39

I hate Christians. This is, this

56:41

drumbeat is happening everywhere. This is

56:43

happening on shows, it's happening in

56:45

dams, it's happening in text messages,

56:48

it's happening in the White House.

56:50

Yeah, I am a secret mold

56:52

to undermine Christianity by reading the

56:55

gospel. And well, because you were

56:57

an atheist and yeah, must be

56:59

right? It's like Jesus, if you

57:01

actually, I'm not supposed to talk about

57:03

the Bible because I'm, you know,

57:05

the underhanded guy. Do you know,

57:07

maybe you don't know what is

57:10

the one thing that's warned about

57:12

most in the Bible? False idols.

57:14

False teachers. Yeah. That's it.

57:16

They're like, people will pretend

57:18

to be good guys and be

57:20

lying wolves and sheep's clothing. And

57:23

it's like. So they're like, well,

57:25

James must be that because he's not

57:27

a brother. And I'm like, do I have

57:29

to go, like, put on, like, a special

57:31

outfit to be a brother? Like, do I

57:34

have to... Do you think if Russell Brand

57:36

put on his underpants and took me into

57:38

the river, that I would count? I made

57:40

a video about this. I haven't really see

57:42

yet. I bet I wouldn't count. I bet

57:44

you if Russell Brand baptized me and gave

57:46

me one of his, you know, our amulets

57:49

that I still wouldn't count. I'm like, isn't

57:51

this against Christianity? Like, even my, the woman

57:53

who does my eyebrows is very Christian and

57:55

she was like going off about this one

57:58

day because she said, she's like, no. you

58:00

don't need an ammulate to protect you,

58:02

you need God. You know that it

58:04

was, it's like this is idolatry. The

58:06

armor of God is not a $275

58:09

amulet sold by Russell Brand. No, the

58:11

reason I bring him up, though, specifically

58:13

with this is because I said, I don't

58:16

think that guy's real. as in his

58:18

conversion as Christianity, I don't think he's

58:20

real, like his history, the guy's an

58:22

actor, he just got accused of a

58:24

bunch of sexual assault and all of

58:26

a sudden he found God. And then the

58:28

whole right's like, we love you! And I was,

58:30

and he's on stage praying with Tucker Carlson

58:32

like the next day and I'm like,

58:34

no, right? And people were like, James

58:36

hates Christians. And I was like, oh my gosh, it's

58:39

like. I put it much more

58:41

simply than this, why can't people

58:43

detect a scumbag in their midst,

58:45

like no matter which party? There

58:47

it seems like partisanship has

58:49

and maybe it's because I'm

58:51

a female but I'm like

58:53

Gavinusam Scumbag Russell Brand seems

58:56

like a scumbag like why

58:58

are scumbag detectors so broken

59:00

by partisan politics that you

59:02

have allowed these literal and

59:04

sometimes predators to just move

59:06

seamlessly from one place to

59:08

another whether it's a male

59:10

to a female prison whether

59:12

it is an influencer who's

59:14

just like conveniently becoming something

59:16

so that they can pivot

59:18

out of, you know, whatever bad press they

59:20

might be getting. I don't, or an

59:22

influencer who didn't exist a year ago

59:24

and now has like a million followers.

59:26

We could see had one weird video

59:28

that went viral for like, whatever. Yeah,

59:30

so I met. It seems like people

59:32

should be better attuned to just

59:35

recognizing scumbets. You would think so.

59:37

I went to DC is at the Trump

59:39

DC back when it was a Trump DC.

59:41

So it was a long time ago. And, um.

59:43

I won't name any names, but I was

59:45

with a group of people and

59:47

they called this guy over who's

59:49

a famous person or was a

59:52

famous person sort of in conservative

59:54

circles. And the second I met

59:56

this guy. Matt Gates. No comment.

59:58

No, it was not Matt. So I

1:00:00

know Matt, he's all right. As soon

1:00:02

as I met this guy though, like

1:00:04

just look in his eyes, right? As

1:00:06

soon as I saw the look in this

1:00:09

guy's eyes, I was like, oh,

1:00:11

this guy's a sociopath, right? And

1:00:13

then he started talking, and it's

1:00:16

like, we started talking, and it's

1:00:18

like, we were talking, and he

1:00:21

wanted to talk to me about

1:00:23

the grievance studies papers,

1:00:25

and I was telling like... hurt

1:00:27

and it wasn't a funny story

1:00:30

and like I just started laughing

1:00:32

hysterically and I'm like holy

1:00:34

crap this guy's a psycho and everybody

1:00:37

else that I was with was like

1:00:39

oh he's really interesting he's really great

1:00:41

and I'm like how do you not

1:00:44

see it what's going on I see

1:00:46

this in tech too this happens in

1:00:48

tech I was at this event and

1:00:51

this guy who's very famous was talking

1:00:53

and I was like getting chills down

1:00:55

my spine and everyone's just like money

1:00:57

yeah I looked at this guy, sitting

1:01:00

next to me, I'm like, am I

1:01:02

the only one who's terrified by what

1:01:04

this guy is saying? And he's like,

1:01:07

no, he needs to be, he's like

1:01:09

the only other normal dude, he's

1:01:11

like, he needs to be stopped.

1:01:13

Do you know that I, with

1:01:15

this whole woke right thing? I

1:01:17

quoted you, I didn't put your

1:01:19

name on it, so you got

1:01:21

no credit, but I think important

1:01:23

things that you ever said though

1:01:25

to me. to me. Well, not

1:01:27

exactly. When I started to see

1:01:30

in September, October like the right

1:01:32

gearing up to kind of go

1:01:34

like buck wild with all this

1:01:36

like radical stuff and I've been tracking

1:01:38

all this for a while. And I

1:01:40

said one of the most important things

1:01:42

to know is when to leave a

1:01:44

party that's about to go sideways. And

1:01:46

that was something you told me and

1:01:49

I was like, no shit.

1:01:51

That's 100% true. And I

1:01:53

was like, this is. This

1:01:55

whole movement, this weird like

1:01:57

high energy conservative ink-ish movement

1:01:59

is off. about to get weird.

1:02:01

I'm like, I gotta get distance. Like,

1:02:03

I've got to get distance from this.

1:02:05

And I didn't deliberately create distance by

1:02:08

going provoking things, but I was like,

1:02:10

I've also gotta speak up. Do what?

1:02:12

Maybe. No, no. I wanted, like, I

1:02:15

needed psychological distance, and I needed to

1:02:17

know that I could speak up. to

1:02:19

differentiate myself from the crowd as I

1:02:21

watched it kind of like running enthusiastically,

1:02:24

not the wrong way, but a little

1:02:26

bit the wrong way. You know, you

1:02:28

know, like a little bit off course,

1:02:31

not straight, but a little sideways, right?

1:02:33

Like, here's a historical story.

1:02:35

Once upon time. there was a Korean

1:02:38

Air flight 747 took off I think

1:02:40

I don't remember the detail where it

1:02:42

took off from maybe it was from

1:02:44

Japan I don't think it was from

1:02:46

Japan I think it was from somewhere

1:02:48

in Seattle or something like that but

1:02:50

it was a Korea Air and it

1:02:53

was flying obviously to Seoul Incheon

1:02:55

Airport and they is back in the 80s

1:02:57

and so they set the heading on the

1:02:59

little it was dials right and they set

1:03:01

it off by one degree wrong. One degree.

1:03:04

So instead of flying whatever heading they

1:03:06

thought they were, there were one degree

1:03:08

sideways. Which took them over Soviet airspace.

1:03:10

So the Soviets were like, there's no

1:03:12

way they would send a passenger plane

1:03:15

over our airspace. They're not that

1:03:17

stupid. They must be disguising a spy

1:03:19

plane as a passenger jet scrambled and

1:03:21

shot it down, killed everybody. One

1:03:24

degree off from the true course

1:03:26

can have a really big consequence

1:03:28

especially like when you even like

1:03:30

going into space Yeah anytime you

1:03:33

start to And what's interesting is that

1:03:35

I've noticed is people who were

1:03:37

like, oh, James was so much

1:03:39

like a canary in the coal

1:03:41

mine, he was so ahead of

1:03:43

the curve, he saw things that

1:03:46

other people didn't see. Now they're

1:03:48

like, those same people are like,

1:03:50

this guy's full of shit. Yep, he

1:03:52

was wrong all the time. He

1:03:54

couldn't possibly be seeing something

1:03:56

on our side that might

1:03:59

be problematic. forward 10 years? Yeah,

1:04:01

no, no, he's just wrong and bad

1:04:03

and evil and don't invite him

1:04:05

to things anymore. What are the

1:04:08

criticisms that you think are accurate? I

1:04:10

mean, I don't behave well on social

1:04:12

media. That's totally fair if anybody

1:04:14

ever says that. So I do

1:04:16

look crazy. So I don't really... You're

1:04:18

much more sane actually sitting with you

1:04:20

than I thought I'd get here and

1:04:22

you'd be like, how are you doing?

1:04:25

I'm a little high strung lately

1:04:27

actually, but just a little. It's

1:04:30

totally possible that I, and I

1:04:32

think this is a very legitimate criticism

1:04:35

that I get, that I am

1:04:37

reading what I'm seeing, and it's

1:04:39

what we've actually already been talking

1:04:42

about, and that I am making

1:04:44

out that in reality something is

1:04:46

happening that's mostly a social media

1:04:48

mirage, right? So that I'm

1:04:50

overblowing... the issue that I'm seeing all these,

1:04:53

you know, Nazi accounts, but they're fake. But

1:04:55

this was something I want to talk to

1:04:57

you about because it does seem even since

1:04:59

you and I first saw one another and

1:05:01

Aspen that the distance between the virtual and

1:05:03

actual is getting smaller and smaller. That's what

1:05:05

I say. I say that Twitter or X,

1:05:07

I guess, is California. Whatever happens in

1:05:10

California hits the rest of the country

1:05:12

in five to ten years, whatever happens

1:05:14

in social media is happening in the

1:05:16

movements, the political movements within a year.

1:05:18

Right. And so I'm like. This is

1:05:21

really a concerning trend and I don't

1:05:23

actually know how much of it's real,

1:05:25

but even if it's not real, it's

1:05:27

becomes real. It becomes real. Right. And

1:05:30

what actually struck me kind of,

1:05:32

this isn't what actually tipped me

1:05:34

over and said, I've got to

1:05:36

start talking about this. There was

1:05:38

something else that was very discreet,

1:05:40

like this I've got to start

1:05:42

speaking up. What actually convinced me

1:05:45

that this is a big problem in reality was

1:05:47

when I went to North Idaho and I was

1:05:49

working with a pastor there at a church and

1:05:51

we held a meeting of a whole bunch of

1:05:53

pastors like a pastor moot or something or whatever

1:05:55

they call that when 30 pastors get in a

1:05:57

room we have you know some kind of del

1:06:00

lunch and we talked and I was

1:06:02

telling them about literally I got brought

1:06:04

in to talk about queer theory and

1:06:06

how it's impact impacting the schools and

1:06:08

the children and what it all is

1:06:11

and I talked a little bit about

1:06:13

that and I talked a little bit

1:06:15

about the big picture with you know

1:06:17

China and ESG and all of the

1:06:19

high pollutant world economic forum stuff with

1:06:22

them and then I was like well

1:06:24

let's just take the rest of the

1:06:26

time and do like what's on your

1:06:28

mind, right? What are your problems? Maybe

1:06:31

I have some color I can put

1:06:33

on them and they're like one guy

1:06:35

after another is like grippers. The grippers

1:06:37

are a number one problem in our

1:06:39

church. And I'm like, the what? Really?

1:06:42

Like I know what the grippers are,

1:06:44

but I'm like, I got there on

1:06:46

the internet. Like they do things in

1:06:48

life? Like, I had this recent experience,

1:06:51

but go on. So I was like,

1:06:53

oh, oh crap. You know, this isn't

1:06:55

like. A couple of guys saying this,

1:06:57

this is a whole bunch of them.

1:06:59

And that they're all talking, like this

1:07:02

is a major problem in regional, both

1:07:04

church and Republican Party politics, that they're

1:07:06

facing now. And that they've realized these

1:07:08

guys are very dishonest, they come in

1:07:11

and they act like they're normal people,

1:07:13

but they have very radical intentions. So

1:07:15

it's like intentional infiltration. And then everywhere

1:07:17

they go, there's division and all this.

1:07:19

I'm like, toxic. I'm like, toxic. And

1:07:22

I'm hearing this is happening in a

1:07:24

few different places in Tennessee where I

1:07:26

live. I'm hearing, you know, reports that

1:07:28

it's just out of control in the

1:07:30

Ogden, Utah area. I'm hearing reports from

1:07:33

it happening in churches in those communities

1:07:35

in parts of Oklahoma. And I'm like

1:07:37

scratching my head thinking, maybe this is

1:07:39

like, you know, coming off the internet

1:07:42

now. Right. Like it's one thing to

1:07:44

say that the groppers are a huge,

1:07:46

like weird... issue on the internet they're

1:07:48

annoying if they decide to descend upon

1:07:50

you they'll mess up your internet for

1:07:53

three days till they get bored and

1:07:55

you know yeah they might swat you

1:07:57

they might swat you they did not

1:07:59

that's a real-life thing that they did

1:08:02

they'll talk to you but like the

1:08:04

actual real life had to talk to

1:08:06

the police so we don't get swatted

1:08:08

and No, they said that this was

1:08:10

the biggest issue. Even with all the

1:08:13

woke left stuff happening, this is the

1:08:15

biggest issue. And that it's kind of

1:08:17

taken over the politics in Boise, they're

1:08:19

all kind of concerned about that. And

1:08:22

I mean, this is what we've talked

1:08:24

about, though, in the past is that

1:08:26

I, and I think you and I

1:08:28

have had this discussion probably on the

1:08:30

podcast, just like the, the, as concerning

1:08:33

as the extreme left is what the

1:08:35

reaction will be from the right. Yeah,

1:08:37

I mean, I definitely remember having that

1:08:39

conversation with you, you know, in like

1:08:41

2019. Yeah. We were, we were, there's

1:08:44

actually. I did trigonometry when it was

1:08:46

like the smallest podcast in Britain or

1:08:48

whatever back in 2019. I'm sure Constantine

1:08:50

will love that. We talked about it.

1:08:53

It was at the time. He and

1:08:55

I talked I was just on his

1:08:57

show now that it's on his show

1:08:59

now that it's huge. I was just

1:09:01

on his show now that it's huge.

1:09:04

I was just on a show now

1:09:06

that it's huge. I was on a

1:09:08

show now that it's huge. I was

1:09:10

on a show a few months ago

1:09:13

a few months ago. Yeah. He was

1:09:15

like, yeah, but I went on a

1:09:17

show and one of the main things,

1:09:19

it was Peter and I together, Peter

1:09:21

and I together, we talked about with

1:09:24

him was the fear. that this was

1:09:26

going to trigger a real racist reaction,

1:09:28

a real like bid for patriarchy or

1:09:30

whatever else. I don't think we had

1:09:33

anti-Semitism like on the radar yet. But

1:09:35

it was, yeah, no kidding. It was

1:09:37

extremely concerning that the reaction was going

1:09:39

to be, that was six years ago.

1:09:41

See, the reason for me that it

1:09:44

was always concerning was because it was

1:09:46

the anti-Semitism on the left that pushed

1:09:48

me out of the left. Yeah. So

1:09:50

I was like, if this and you

1:09:52

see it on the right. left and

1:09:55

you see this on the right, generally

1:09:57

historically, that's not a fucking good sign.

1:09:59

No, that's the juice squeeze. I think

1:10:01

they, I mean, I've talked to some

1:10:04

of my Jewish friends and they do

1:10:06

refer to a squeeze. from both sides

1:10:08

on the Jewish people and it's like

1:10:10

oh so the and it does feel

1:10:12

like some there's some fucking weird thing

1:10:15

that's encoded in human DNA that's like

1:10:17

it's the Jews. Well what it is

1:10:19

is I mean on a deep like

1:10:21

psychological and philosophical level I mean I

1:10:24

really do mean this I've been thinking

1:10:26

about this for a very long time

1:10:28

and I finally hit upon this answer

1:10:30

the other day and I'm like oh

1:10:32

my god that's the right answer. And

1:10:35

I didn't come up with it, but

1:10:37

I don't remember where I read it.

1:10:39

So somebody gets credit. And it's probably

1:10:41

you. No, I'm just kidding. It definitely

1:10:44

wasn't you. Who are you quoting now?

1:10:46

Yeah, right? Quoting now. I love this

1:10:48

marketplace of ideas where everyone just takes

1:10:50

ideas. There's too many ideas to remember

1:10:52

where they came from. No, I know.

1:10:55

But the thing is, is that the

1:10:57

idea is that on a deep level,

1:10:59

it's collectivism versus not collectivism, right? If

1:11:01

you're trying to create global oneness, which

1:11:04

is what a lot of like the

1:11:06

hippie-dippy sounding religions are trying to do,

1:11:08

but it's also what all the evil

1:11:10

cult religions try to do. communism is

1:11:12

a global oneness program, fascism is a

1:11:15

global oneness program. If you're trying to

1:11:17

create a global oneness theosophical or whatever

1:11:19

thing, and you have a group of

1:11:21

people that are like, no, we're God's

1:11:23

chosen people, we're not doing that. They

1:11:26

refuse to assimilate to whatever the big

1:11:28

prevailing thing is. And then they also

1:11:30

tend to, you know, be very successful.

1:11:32

They're like the original Edge Lords. Just

1:11:35

kidding. Well, they refuse. And so they're

1:11:37

not going to be a part of

1:11:39

a global oneness program. They're like, no,

1:11:41

we've got a covenant. and that covenant

1:11:43

is sacred and it's inviolable. And then

1:11:46

people look at that and like, well,

1:11:48

they're weirdos and we have problems and

1:11:50

where are the problems coming from? Well,

1:11:52

we got these weirdos who are different

1:11:55

from us, who won't get on the

1:11:57

program with us. And what I've seen

1:11:59

studying, you know, totalitarian ideologies now for

1:12:01

a while, you kind of got two

1:12:03

kinds of tyranny, right? You've got the

1:12:06

warlord tyranny where it's just some guy

1:12:08

who's a brute who takes everything over.

1:12:10

like Genghis Khan or whatever, maybe even

1:12:12

Alexander. Then you have these kind of

1:12:15

ideological tyrannies, and these ideological tyrannies are

1:12:17

always of the same flavor. They have

1:12:19

different actual formula, but they're the same

1:12:21

flavor, and that flavor is always, if

1:12:23

everybody did this with us, it would

1:12:26

work. So then you look at the

1:12:28

people who aren't doing it with you.

1:12:30

and it's not working because it's bullshit

1:12:32

in the first place and you're like

1:12:34

it's their fault. Well this was something

1:12:37

that really struck me when I was

1:12:39

in Prague and we had this amazing

1:12:41

tour guide. He spoke like 14 languages.

1:12:43

He was born and raised in Prague

1:12:46

and educated with the Russian history and

1:12:48

then lived through the last Russian tanks

1:12:50

leaving in the 90s. Wow. and had

1:12:52

to relearn history which would be insane

1:12:54

and was also Jewish and he was

1:12:57

he took us down to where the

1:12:59

the ghettos were and the old and

1:13:01

the walls and whatnot and he's he

1:13:03

was explaining that during the plague because

1:13:06

the Jews had been put in basically

1:13:08

their own you know ghetto and had

1:13:10

been they had better sanitation and they

1:13:12

had to get all of it out

1:13:14

one way or another and therefore were

1:13:17

not as affected by the plague and

1:13:19

then they were blamed for the plague.

1:13:21

Of course. It's fucking crazy. So they

1:13:23

were isolated. They had to deal with

1:13:26

that and come up with better practices

1:13:28

around hygiene and then because they didn't

1:13:30

get it. It was their fault. It

1:13:32

was their fault. While there's shit in

1:13:34

the streets. my weak-ass takes on communism

1:13:37

apparently that have turned young people into

1:13:39

like Nazi ideology. I don't think this

1:13:41

is true I think they're trolling but

1:13:43

there are people saying this now so

1:13:45

you have some like I wake up

1:13:48

every day and I'm like who am

1:13:50

I gonna find today? Yeah you can't

1:13:52

I mean I come from the Joe

1:13:54

Rogan School of Internet it's like posting

1:13:57

ghosts don't read the comments just like

1:13:59

you've got don't argue with people online

1:14:01

all day. You don't, you need one

1:14:03

of those calendars that's like here's how

1:14:05

many days you have left in your

1:14:08

lifetime if you're lucky enough to live

1:14:10

to 80 or whatever and I think

1:14:12

it will help put things like that

1:14:14

time is valuable. Yeah. The thing is

1:14:17

I got kicked off Twitter right for

1:14:19

five months for calling transactive as groomers.

1:14:21

Oh yeah I remember that's good for

1:14:23

you though right? Well yes and no

1:14:25

I was very happy to be off

1:14:28

actually and I think at first especially.

1:14:30

But the problem was is I was

1:14:32

insanely productive. I was so productive. I

1:14:34

was like doing some of the best

1:14:37

research I think I've done this whole

1:14:39

time. My output was like killing people.

1:14:41

Like they couldn't read everything I was

1:14:43

writing and listen to everything I was

1:14:45

recording as podcasts fast enough. Like I

1:14:48

was just like I was like the

1:14:50

Concord. Like flying past everything. And then.

1:14:52

All of a sudden about three or

1:14:54

five months total about three three and

1:14:56

a half months in I was like

1:14:59

I started to realize that it's like

1:15:01

I'm over here and like stuff I

1:15:03

don't know what people think of what

1:15:05

I'm saying now like I've become disconnected

1:15:08

I don't have that feedback mechanism right

1:15:10

so part of the reason that I

1:15:12

Read the comments is because I don't

1:15:14

know how my stuff is being received

1:15:16

without seeing how it's being received like

1:15:19

when I was saying earlier You know

1:15:21

talking with an audience you can see

1:15:23

their faces right like if they all

1:15:25

start kind of doing this But if

1:15:28

you you yourself are saying a lot

1:15:30

of it is manufactured and fake so

1:15:32

how like how can you determine how

1:15:34

you're being received and if it's yeah,

1:15:36

that's like I'm like I'm realizing that

1:15:39

that's like this huge issue now and

1:15:41

I'm trying to calibrate around it and

1:15:43

I don't know what to do because

1:15:45

that's a huge problem right if you

1:15:48

want to make a claim that something's

1:15:50

happening like that there's this woke thing

1:15:52

happening in the right wing or a

1:15:54

fascist or a Nazi or whatever you

1:15:56

need examples to show people right I

1:15:59

mean maybe that's why it bothers me

1:16:01

the woke thing is that it's not

1:16:03

it feels like on on the

1:16:05

left they labeled it cultural

1:16:08

Marxism so is it

1:16:10

Marxism or is it like Naziism

1:16:12

well you know some of it's

1:16:14

some people are like national

1:16:16

socialists I don't think most

1:16:19

of them are and I

1:16:21

think a lot of that's

1:16:23

troll activity right there's

1:16:25

There's this weird line between

1:16:27

the philosophical school of capital C

1:16:29

conservatism, which is not what most

1:16:32

people politically that are conservative call themselves.

1:16:34

It's actually a school of thought. It

1:16:36

has like kind of outlined ideas. It's

1:16:38

rooted, you know, deeply in tradition and

1:16:40

so on and all this stuff. And

1:16:42

a lot of conservatives when they hear

1:16:44

it's a yeah, I think that way.

1:16:46

But there's a school of thought. And

1:16:48

then that's like conservatism. And then you

1:16:50

have fascism, right. And then you have

1:16:52

fascism, right. And then you have fascism, right.

1:16:54

all invested in the state, but where they

1:16:56

kind of overlap is a lot of times

1:16:58

in the sense of a nation as a

1:17:00

people that have shared things in common,

1:17:02

not as a nation as in like

1:17:05

this kind of political entity where there's

1:17:07

a constitution and everybody who happens to

1:17:09

live within the borders and is a

1:17:11

legal citizen, blah, blah, blah. But no,

1:17:13

it's a distinct people who have kind

1:17:16

of an ethnic heritage that somehow

1:17:18

ties them together. And they both

1:17:20

kind of have this way of

1:17:23

thinking in that who you are

1:17:25

is determined in terms of like

1:17:28

your inheritance from that national

1:17:30

culture, right? You could call it

1:17:32

an inherited self versus, you know, like

1:17:34

a self-defined self that the left is

1:17:37

into. I get to be whoever I

1:17:39

want today, you know. I'm going to

1:17:41

change my pronouns every Tuesday at 12.

1:17:43

That's self-definition versus this is, well, you

1:17:46

don't really get to pick who you

1:17:48

are because your society gave you who

1:17:50

you are. And you inherited that and it

1:17:52

would be like, you know, it would be

1:17:54

an insult to throw it off and say

1:17:57

I'm going to be different than the traditions.

1:18:00

it can go that way, it can

1:18:02

get very hierarchical. But the thing

1:18:04

is, is that like the fascist

1:18:06

side is like, it's the same

1:18:08

thing where the Marxists believe like,

1:18:10

oh we can just be progressive,

1:18:12

oh it's not working, we need

1:18:14

state power to force people to

1:18:16

be progressive, right? The fascist thing

1:18:18

is like, oh we can just

1:18:20

have a big national community and

1:18:22

we can think of ourselves as

1:18:25

the national community, which by the

1:18:27

way is the phrasing that the

1:18:29

Nazis used for what they were

1:18:31

building as a national community as

1:18:33

a national community. National Community, oh

1:18:35

shit, we can't actually make people

1:18:37

like respect it. So we'll use

1:18:39

the state to force them to

1:18:41

do it. And so Capital C

1:18:43

conservatism doesn't believe in the state

1:18:45

forcing people to do that, but

1:18:47

fascism does. But then they have

1:18:49

this huge amount of like blurry

1:18:52

crossover between them in that place

1:18:54

and the, in that place of

1:18:56

who we are as a people.

1:18:58

is something everybody in order for

1:19:00

the society to work everybody has

1:19:02

to understand who we are as

1:19:04

a people and be kind of

1:19:06

on the same program and the

1:19:08

fact is is when people are

1:19:10

the question always comes down to

1:19:12

what do you do with the

1:19:14

people who say no right well

1:19:17

like fine that's a tradition but

1:19:19

I don't want to do that

1:19:21

so I'm not going to what

1:19:23

do with the people who say

1:19:25

no and eventually if your thought

1:19:27

process is that society will decohere

1:19:29

it will fall apart something terrible

1:19:31

will happen if we don't make

1:19:33

sure everybody's on the program then

1:19:35

eventually you have to start forcing

1:19:37

people to be on the program.

1:19:39

Right. It can start through coercion,

1:19:41

then it can get to like

1:19:44

kind of the puritanical cancel culture,

1:19:46

and eventually you end up with

1:19:48

a state apparatus that's like this

1:19:50

is what we're doing, and if

1:19:52

you don't participate, you're not part

1:19:54

of us, and you don't have

1:19:56

any. And then it'd be kind

1:19:58

of a get-up. Yeah, exactly. And

1:20:00

so there's this weird space there

1:20:02

where it's like some of both

1:20:04

of those things are happening happening,

1:20:06

but one of those things are

1:20:08

happening, but one of those things

1:20:11

is really bad. hippie-dippy, progressive, kumbaya

1:20:13

kind of people, can't we all

1:20:15

just get along and can't we

1:20:17

all just like gay people or

1:20:19

whatever, like that slope into like

1:20:21

whatever the hell we just lived

1:20:23

through is slippery, right? This slope

1:20:25

now concentrated in the concept of

1:20:27

what it means to be a

1:20:29

nation is also slippery. Right. And

1:20:31

that's where my primary concern is.

1:20:33

And it's also, it turns out

1:20:35

in both cases, I'm reading this

1:20:38

book right now called Account Rendered

1:20:40

about a girl who was 15

1:20:42

in 1933 when Hitler took over

1:20:44

and she became a Nazi almost

1:20:46

immediately. And so. in the late

1:20:48

50s or early 60s, I don't

1:20:50

know the exact timing, she had

1:20:52

finally like deprogrammed and her best

1:20:54

friend as a teenager was is

1:20:56

Jewish girl. And so she's like

1:20:58

writing this letter not of apology

1:21:00

but of explanation. How did I

1:21:02

become a monster basically to her

1:21:05

childhood friend? And I'm reading this

1:21:07

and it's so frequently reminding that

1:21:09

it's... that young people get caught

1:21:11

up in this. Yeah. It's the

1:21:13

wanting to be a part of

1:21:15

something big. It's wanting to change

1:21:17

the world. It's, you know, we're

1:21:19

15, 16, 18 years old. Nobody

1:21:21

quite takes us seriously. But this

1:21:23

is a serious movement. This is

1:21:25

life and death. This is a

1:21:27

real thing. And real people our

1:21:29

age are really doing it. And

1:21:32

that's, I see, well. that Leonard

1:21:34

Pickoff called this ominous parallels. I

1:21:36

see ominous parallels between the situation

1:21:38

that we're in now and the

1:21:40

situation that you would have in

1:21:42

those states that went into kind

1:21:44

of the fascist pit. But how

1:21:46

is it woke where like left

1:21:48

woke cares about your race? or

1:21:50

what it means to be a

1:21:52

race, right? It doesn't care about

1:21:54

your race. That's a lie. That

1:21:56

was always a lie. Larry Elder's

1:21:59

black, but he wasn't black. The

1:22:01

LA Times called him the Blackface

1:22:03

White supremacy. They cared about that

1:22:05

he acted politically black, right? Instead

1:22:07

of it being about race or

1:22:09

sexuality or one of these things

1:22:11

at the lefted or economic status

1:22:13

if it's old school Marxist, now

1:22:15

it's concentrated in the idea of

1:22:17

the nation. Who are we as

1:22:19

a people? and they get the

1:22:21

same. thought processes about what defines

1:22:23

the people in the nation. And

1:22:26

so that's why there's so much.

1:22:28

But it's hard. Like do you,

1:22:30

sorry to interrupt, do you think

1:22:32

that, isn't there some level of

1:22:34

truth to having to, one of

1:22:36

the things on the left that

1:22:38

has been so, like, degrading has

1:22:40

been the. teaching of hatred hating

1:22:42

America. Yeah. So how do you

1:22:44

go here as a nation if

1:22:46

your population hates itself? No, that's

1:22:48

right. And that's where it's like

1:22:50

it's reaction and overreaction, right? Because

1:22:53

this woman, Molita Moshenman, that wrote

1:22:55

the book account rendered, actually says

1:22:57

that too. It's like, was it

1:22:59

hate that brought me into being

1:23:01

a national socialist to Nazi? She

1:23:03

was a Nazi officer, right? By

1:23:05

the time it ended. Was it

1:23:07

hatred that brought me? No, it

1:23:09

was love for Germany. Love for

1:23:11

Germany. I wanted Germany to be

1:23:13

this great vision and I believed,

1:23:15

this is her words, and I

1:23:17

believed Hitler would deliver on those

1:23:20

promises. And so that desire, the

1:23:22

left in the communists, destroying love

1:23:24

of nation, patriotism, is extremely corrosive.

1:23:26

But that's the other word thing.

1:23:28

But it can go both ways.

1:23:30

Communism is an internationalist movement. But

1:23:32

wasn't like the motherland in Russia?

1:23:34

Wasn't it about the love of

1:23:36

Russia? Well there's a huge, I

1:23:38

mean that's... This is a whole

1:23:40

topic, but there was a program

1:23:42

that was initiated. Stalin came up

1:23:44

with it in 1913. In Russian,

1:23:47

it's Corinizatsia, which means putting down

1:23:49

roots. And it's basically, we call

1:23:51

it DEAI today. And I'm not

1:23:53

like basically my way around details,

1:23:55

like it is, DEA is the

1:23:57

import of Koreanatsatsia. And so for

1:23:59

the entire 1920s to roughly the

1:24:01

end of the 1920s getting into

1:24:03

the early 1930s, they were doing

1:24:05

this, whether it was Latvia, Latvia,

1:24:07

Ukraine, you know, whatever, they were

1:24:09

going around and they were, no,

1:24:11

you get to be your own

1:24:14

people, you get to be your

1:24:16

own nation within the broad Federation,

1:24:18

the Soviet Federation, and we're gonna

1:24:20

help you, your, you know, your

1:24:22

leaders will become leaders in Moscow,

1:24:24

and there's your inclusion program, by

1:24:26

the way. And all of this,

1:24:28

it had, the diversity component was

1:24:30

called Ruzna Brazia, which literally means

1:24:32

diversity, but unity and content. So

1:24:34

you look different, but you all

1:24:36

think the same. You're all Soviets.

1:24:38

And so that was a disaster.

1:24:41

It did exactly what DEA is

1:24:43

doing now in America, where everybody

1:24:45

kind of hates each other, and

1:24:47

there's all this tension across racial

1:24:49

or ethnic lines, and all these

1:24:51

issues, it fell apart in exactly

1:24:53

the way one would predict it

1:24:55

falls apart in what we've just

1:24:57

walked through. And then Stalin was

1:24:59

now in power. Lenin was dead,

1:25:01

late 1920s early 30s, and he

1:25:03

says the new economic policy that

1:25:05

NEP has to succeed. Russification. No

1:25:08

more, you're Latvian, you're Estonian, you're

1:25:10

this, you're that, your nation, self-determination,

1:25:12

blah, blah, blah, nope, you're all

1:25:14

Russian now. And he stopped calling

1:25:16

it Soviet Union. Stalin stopped calling

1:25:18

it the Soviet Union at that

1:25:20

point, started calling it Russia. And

1:25:22

that's when the huge motherland push

1:25:24

was brought in. So it's like,

1:25:26

they deeyed until it didn't work.

1:25:28

And then dictator Stalin with literally,

1:25:30

Stalin is a nickname by the

1:25:32

way, it means something to do

1:25:35

with steel in Russian. I forgot

1:25:37

how to say his real last

1:25:39

name, but Stalin with his steel

1:25:41

fist was like, nope, now we're

1:25:43

all going the other way. And

1:25:45

so it became the massive recification

1:25:47

project that they initiated, which actually

1:25:49

hearkened back to before the union.

1:25:51

There was a recification project under

1:25:53

the czar as well. Right. So

1:25:55

it's like, we're going to go.

1:25:57

Yeah, I know we're going to

1:25:59

go all the way back. And

1:26:02

so the thing is, what they

1:26:04

called Stalin for this was the

1:26:06

national socialist. That's what Lenin referred

1:26:08

to him as because of these

1:26:10

programs. And it was considered... derogatory

1:26:12

term because it was supposed to

1:26:14

be international socialism. The Soviet Union

1:26:16

was supposed to be a testbed

1:26:18

that would then be able to

1:26:20

plant seeds of communism, one nation

1:26:22

after another, whether it went in

1:26:24

and did a kind of color

1:26:26

revolution or a coup or whether

1:26:29

it went in and toppled a

1:26:31

nation. But the idea was it

1:26:33

was going to be the like

1:26:35

fortress and communism was going to

1:26:37

spread everywhere and everything that tipped

1:26:39

over would become part of the

1:26:41

Federation. Okay. Okay. I know there's

1:26:43

a lot of like, what the

1:26:45

hell. No, no, no. I mean,

1:26:47

this is again, I'm sitting here

1:26:49

listening going like, I don't know

1:26:51

anything. And also. But this is

1:26:54

one of the memes that they're

1:26:56

getting our young guys with, which

1:26:58

is that international socialism doesn't work,

1:27:00

but national socialism does. Okay. And

1:27:02

you'll see that, like, that's repeated

1:27:04

a lot. And I think it's

1:27:06

from large propaganda accounts. And then

1:27:08

people, you know, it's memeable. They

1:27:10

repeat it. Yeah. So this, because

1:27:12

you're seeing it, yeah. My counterme

1:27:14

of socialism sucks. Which it does.

1:27:16

Yeah. But I don't think like

1:27:18

this administration is pro-socialism. So what's

1:27:21

the capitalist version? you know, worst

1:27:23

nightmare scenario here. Oh, what we

1:27:25

have in China right now. China

1:27:27

in the 1980s had a leader

1:27:29

named Deng Xiaoping. and a lot

1:27:31

of people don't know who Deng

1:27:33

Xiaoping is, but Deng Xiaoping, it

1:27:35

wasn't the immediate successor of Mao,

1:27:37

there was like a power struggle

1:27:39

and there's another guy for like

1:27:41

a year and a half and

1:27:43

whatever. Sorry, I'm just laughing because

1:27:45

what were we just talking about

1:27:48

him with Curtis Yarvin? Deng Xiaoping?

1:27:50

Yeah, I think he was, Deng

1:27:52

Xiaoping's idea was open up, right?

1:27:54

Right. That was a slogan and

1:27:56

the the model was one country

1:27:58

two systems and so it was

1:28:00

going to continue to have the

1:28:02

the the communist political ideology at

1:28:04

its heart but it was going

1:28:06

to adopt literally the Nazi the

1:28:08

national socialist not the program just

1:28:10

the economic model right right so

1:28:12

a fascist economic model so you

1:28:15

get this communist fascist hybrid where

1:28:17

you have people can make crazy

1:28:19

money with their corporations you can

1:28:21

have whatever big corporation you want

1:28:23

in China in the CEO or

1:28:25

the owner owner can make crazy

1:28:27

money but the deal is the

1:28:29

state owns all the land the

1:28:31

state owns all the raw materials

1:28:33

the state owns all the heavy

1:28:35

capital and disappear you if you

1:28:37

if you if you disagree with

1:28:39

them or disagree with CCP policy

1:28:42

right which could change tomorrow right

1:28:44

at any given any given time

1:28:46

at any given time or if

1:28:48

you you know speak out against

1:28:50

communism or the present leader or

1:28:52

whatever as has happened Jackma right

1:28:54

and so I don't know why

1:28:56

he decided his IPO launch was

1:28:58

a good time to go into

1:29:00

some inventive about the CCP but

1:29:02

it wasn't a great timing for

1:29:04

him And that happens. So what

1:29:06

you have is you don't have

1:29:09

this like advanced super capitalist model.

1:29:11

What you have is a Potemkin

1:29:13

village of capitalism that operates at

1:29:15

the communist state's pleasure, right? And

1:29:17

so my broad thesis is that

1:29:19

this whole, you know, sustainability ESG

1:29:21

bullshit in the West. is a

1:29:23

way of doing that same thing

1:29:25

upside down. So now we're going

1:29:27

to use the corporate, we're not

1:29:29

going to use the state to

1:29:31

force the corporations, we're going to

1:29:33

use the corporations to force the

1:29:36

state. So we'll get all the

1:29:38

corporations working in lockstep, whether it's

1:29:40

through, you know, drunken deals at

1:29:42

their ski party in Davos, whether

1:29:44

it's through, you know, UN agreements,

1:29:46

whether it's through Club of Rome

1:29:48

agreements or whatever these other shadowy

1:29:50

organizations, they get some other ways

1:29:52

that they do. biggest company CEOs

1:29:54

together with the Pope, together with

1:29:56

the Rothschilds. It's like, what the

1:29:58

hell's going on there, right? And

1:30:00

it's called the. The council for

1:30:03

inclusive capitalism. And it's supposed to

1:30:05

be like we're going to transform

1:30:07

the entire world's economic system into

1:30:09

something that's more geared around caring

1:30:11

and sharing. That was cloud Schwab's

1:30:13

words, which sounds an awful lot,

1:30:15

like communism. So you're kind of

1:30:17

getting the communism in through the

1:30:19

corporate. So you've got communism and

1:30:21

fascism fused in the China model.

1:30:23

And now you're going to use

1:30:25

the kind of fascist lockstep. corporate

1:30:27

thing guided by these huge investment

1:30:30

passive investment companies like Black Rock. You're

1:30:32

going to get everybody acting in the

1:30:35

same way and then they're going to

1:30:37

coordinate because you can make more money

1:30:39

if you coordinate with the heads of

1:30:41

state. Like let's say that I want

1:30:43

to introduce such and such product and

1:30:46

I can convince the heads of state

1:30:48

that this is a really great idea

1:30:50

and they can you know loosen regulation

1:30:52

that would allow me to have that

1:30:54

edge on the market ahead of time

1:30:57

like maybe they made that deal after

1:30:59

they went skiing and had some hookers

1:31:01

in Davos. This is what I think

1:31:03

is going on. So the model that

1:31:06

we're being forced into that's been screwing

1:31:08

up everything, that's why we had DEI

1:31:10

in all of our corporations. It didn't

1:31:12

just leak out of the universities. It's

1:31:14

because they have to score on their

1:31:17

corporate equality index score and all these

1:31:19

stupid metrics. The reason that's happening is

1:31:21

to build the China model in inverse

1:31:23

here. Now, think long term though, who's

1:31:25

going to win this game? the country

1:31:28

that's ruthlessly been using it for 40

1:31:30

years already and knows all the ins

1:31:32

and outs of it, or the countries

1:31:34

that are like stumbling backwards into it

1:31:36

and not really wanting to do it.

1:31:39

And did you worry about this happening

1:31:41

when you saw all these like tech

1:31:43

guys on? You mean like the ones

1:31:45

that are literally on like the board

1:31:47

of Buildaburg? Yes I did. I'm like,

1:31:50

oh no. The scariest sentence I have.

1:31:52

Or do you think that they're like,

1:31:54

kind of working against it. You know,

1:31:56

they might be. I don't know. Like,

1:31:58

did Elon Musk wake up? That's a,

1:32:01

that's a legit question, right? He said

1:32:03

unequivocally a few years ago that he's

1:32:05

a socialist. And now he seems to

1:32:07

be very pro- trump and very pro-capitalism

1:32:09

and very pro-free speech. Did he wake

1:32:12

up or is it an act? I

1:32:14

know people who know Elon, I don't

1:32:16

know Elon, I've heard that it's genuine.

1:32:18

Yeah, I think it is. But it's

1:32:21

also like, he hasn't, you know, Michael

1:32:23

malice and I have a friendly debate

1:32:25

on how many red pills somebody's supposed

1:32:27

to somebody supposed to take. What if

1:32:29

the bottle has 100 pills in it,

1:32:32

right? There's maybe five, right? It's the

1:32:34

right number. I don't think Elon's taken

1:32:36

all of the red pills he needs

1:32:38

to take yet. Like I still think,

1:32:40

like he's still like, oh yeah, brain

1:32:43