0:02

This is a Global Player

0:04

original podcast. Warning.

0:08

following episode contains strong language,

0:10

bizarre theories, unexplainable experiences,

0:12

and a warped marriage to

0:14

David Bowie. It may

0:16

not be suitable for younger weirdos. Saturday

0:20

night and Sunday morning is

0:22

where the walk happens. Kurt's on

0:24

stage, he's doing a scene,

0:26

something happened and he physically ripped

0:28

the fourth wall, he like

0:30

ripped it, stepped through it and

0:32

went and spoke to the

0:34

audience about what they thought was

0:36

happening. And I was watching

0:38

I was like, what? He exists

0:40

on stage and off stage,

0:42

therefore nothing is real. Hey,

0:58

everyone, welcome to another episode

1:00

of We Can Be Weirdos. My

1:02

name is Dan Schreiber. am

1:04

coming to you today from my

1:06

home at Ruffway by Sea. and welcome

1:08

to one of the final episodes

1:10

of Weirdos for 2024 It's been such

1:13

a great year so many interesting

1:15

conversations I hope you've had a chance

1:17

to listen to all of them

1:19

as we've been going on Thank you

1:21

to everyone who has and continue

1:23

to contribute to the show chatting on

1:25

discord and commenting online and recommending

1:27

it to your friends really means the

1:29

world because I love having these

1:31

chats and today's episode is a perfect

1:33

reminder of why we do this

1:35

show today. I'm chatting to a friend

1:37

who I had no idea. basically

1:39

bathed in the waters of batshit her

1:41

entire childhood. It's fascinating to find out

1:43

what that does to you as a

1:45

person Where do you go in life?

1:47

Which fork in the road do you

1:50

pick the batshit one or the rational

1:52

one? We're gonna find out all of

1:54

that in this episode because I'm talking

1:56

this week to comedian actor improv legend

1:58

author and One of the of... podcasting.

2:00

It's Kariad So Carrie -Ad, you might

2:02

know her from her podcast Griefcast, which

2:04

is an absolutely stunning show. She started

2:06

it in 2016 and it immediately won

2:09

multiple awards. It was that good. I

2:11

remember actually a photo from the British

2:13

podcast awards where Carrie -Ad was sort struggling

2:15

to hold all of the awards that

2:17

she'd won that evening and then she

2:19

won things like Aria Awards for it

2:21

and so on. And rightfully so. It

2:24

is such a beautiful and brilliant podcast.

2:26

It's one of those ones that as

2:28

deep and meaningful as it is funny

2:30

and interesting. And each week, Cariad would sit

2:32

down with someone. It was a one -on

2:34

-one interview. And they would remember someone who

2:36

they'd lost in their life. And they

2:38

would talk about grief. And they would talk

2:40

about the stories of that person's life.

2:42

they'd talk about how it impacted their life.

2:44

And you was just great, meaningful, really

2:46

raw conversations that could have you crying. And

2:48

then a few minutes later, laughing your

2:51

ass off. It was just a wonderful show.

2:53

And Cariad did it for about seven

2:55

years, but she's parked it for now because

2:57

she decided she wanted to create another

2:59

hip podcast. which she's done with

3:01

her best friend, the comedian, Sarah Pasco,

3:03

and it is called The Weirdos

3:05

Book Club. Now this is a

3:07

fantastic podcast for book lovers. If you have

3:09

never been part of a book club but

3:11

always wanted to be, you can vicariously be

3:13

part of this because they announced the books

3:15

beforehand. You announced have time to go and read

3:17

them and then you can listen to the

3:20

app. And they always have great guests on.

3:22

They always have interesting authors of the books

3:24

themselves come on. And it also is suitable

3:26

for people who haven't read the book. So

3:28

you don't actually have to have read the

3:30

book to enjoy the show. It's just a

3:32

great chat about books between two brilliant comedians/best

3:34

friends. So yeah, check that out. Both those

3:36

shows, Griefcast and The Weirdos Book Club wherever

3:38

you get your podcasts. So yeah, I

3:40

first met Kariad bunch of years ago,

3:42

sort of like 2014 or 15, maybe

3:44

earlier, and it was through my friend

3:46

Andy, Andrew Hunter Murray, from No Such

3:48

Thing as a Fish. So Andy, who

3:50

was an improviser as well, said one

3:52

night to me, would you like to

3:54

come see my improv troupe? So I

3:56

went along and I saw this show

3:58

ostentatious. So For those who

4:01

don't know, it stars Carrie Adloid,

4:03

you've got Rachel Parris, got Graham

4:05

Dixon, Amy Cook Hodgson, Charlotte Gittins,

4:07

Joe Morpogo, and at the time

4:09

Andrew Hunter Murray. I absolutely incredible

4:11

supergroup of improvisers, and the basic

4:13

premise of each show is that

4:15

some academic has found hundreds of

4:17

unpublished and lost Jane Austen novels,

4:19

and tonight they are going to

4:21

debut one of these lost novels.

4:23

So as you're in the queue

4:25

going into the show, you write

4:27

down on a piece of paper

4:29

a ridiculous title to what you think should be

4:31

a Jane Austen novel. They put it all in

4:33

a hat, they pick it out, and whatever comes out

4:35

of that hat. is they perform an hour

4:37

long version of on the night. It's honestly

4:39

an incredible experience so go online and see

4:41

if they're doing it live. I promise you

4:43

it's one of the best nights of comedy

4:46

you'll see. But the main thing - that

4:48

I want to tell you about Carrie

4:50

Ad is that she has a new kids

4:52

book out. It's called The Christmas Wish

4:54

Tastrophe. And honestly, you need to get this

4:56

now for all the kids in your

4:58

lives ahead of Christmas. There's a couple of

5:00

days left where you can do it,

5:03

go online, you can get it from online

5:05

bookshops, or just head to an actual

5:07

bookshop and pick up a copy now. It's

5:09

the story of a young girl called

5:11

Lydia Marmalade, who's living in the early 19th

5:13

century. And the plot is, is that

5:15

she unfortunately has orphaned, having lost both her

5:17

parents. She's living with a new family

5:19

and she makes a wish on the

5:22

most magical night of the year Christmas,

5:24

little does she know about the chaos

5:26

that it's about to unleash. What's really

5:28

great is because Carrie is a performer

5:30

for ostentatious. She has such a great

5:32

understanding about the period that Jane Austen

5:34

lived in So everything has a real

5:36

authentic feel about the world that Lydia

5:39

Marmalade is living in and I actually

5:41

started reading this book To my boys

5:43

last night and they actively asked me

5:45

to pause on Harry Potter so that

5:47

we could continue on with it. There's no

5:49

better sign than saying can you put down

5:51

the wizard book so that we can keep

5:53

hearing about this girl Lydia and her sausage

5:55

dog Colin? All right, so let's get into it.

5:57

As I said at the top of the show. I've known

6:00

carried while, a I knew there were, like, were

6:02

of batshit in her life through conversations

6:04

I'd had with various friends. I've never had

6:06

a proper chat about it, though, with

6:08

her, and I had no idea about the

6:10

world of Weird a Kariad had it experience

6:12

with. So I don't we get into it?

6:14

Here we go. It is the weird list

6:17

of Kariad had and I will see you

6:19

on the other side. with so why don't

6:21

we get into it here we go

6:23

it is the batch list of carried

6:25

Lloyd and I will see you on

6:27

the other side I very excited

6:29

when you said yes to

6:31

coming on because you've on

6:33

appeared once or twice on

6:35

previous episodes or relation to

6:38

as it were being in to

6:40

as it being the gateway to bad shit

6:42

most obvious one being obvious one

6:44

I at a date with That shit,

6:46

of course. Yeah. me. That is so

6:48

funny. You introduced it to a number

6:50

of things. Most notably, the

6:52

thing that she mentioned she mentioned was the

6:54

fact that if you touch the

6:56

stone of an avocado. going to lose You're

6:58

going to lose that was my mom. Yeah, that know,

7:00

that was my mom said that. And my mom was my

7:02

mum said that and my mum doesn't even

7:04

believe that, like that's just like, she just

7:06

said it as a casual it as a and

7:09

I superstition. And I, I don't. I have have lots

7:11

of in in my life, but that's not one

7:13

I'm particularly bothered by. So it's quite funny it's quite

7:15

funny that it much. Sarah so much, were like, and my mum that

7:17

one. We don't really believe that one, but

7:19

we believe the other one. that one, so

7:21

funny. the still apparently hasn't touched

7:23

a stone since hasn't touched a stone on

7:25

it. I was doing all right on it, so yeah. not

7:27

wrong. wrong. Yeah, so I know from the list that

7:29

the I've just seen that you

7:31

have, lot of you have a lot

7:33

of in this kind of stuff.

7:35

stuff. thing that that I've always that list. I

7:37

was like, Oh, I don't have that much. I was

7:39

was like, oh, I don't have a lot of things. I don't

7:42

believe I was done oh, done really well

7:44

on that list. lot of things I don't that's

7:46

a nice high score. done, you've done really

7:48

By the way, your new kid's

7:50

book, that's a nice high score. Oh, Christmas

7:52

the way, your new kids' book, title,

7:54

yeah, yeah. But Lydia Marmalade, when

7:56

I saw you at a

7:59

party I had... to run up to

8:01

to you, is ages ago because I

8:03

got given I've got my proof

8:05

got my proof was like, I that a

8:07

pun on on Lady Marble Age? Oh yeah! You're

8:09

like, no. No, it's just a name. It must be, my brain

8:11

must my brain. I must have done that because

8:13

you're not the first but someone else said

8:15

it to me and I was like, said it to me,

8:17

and I brain oh my brain must have done. in

8:19

that of Luke Skywalker, know, like your

8:21

brain that makes your sense for someone's going

8:23

into space, right? It must have been

8:25

a sense, thing, but to me, in we

8:27

invent Austin names of the been a lady

8:29

this name just bubbled up. me, because this

8:31

little girl called Lydia Marmalade, and I just

8:34

thought, the time I'd like to know what she's

8:36

doing. this And so yeah, the book is

8:38

about her and her adventures with her best

8:40

friend, Lydia Marmalade, and I just thought, oh, I'd

8:42

And like to know what she's doing.

8:44

And so yeah, the have shared

8:46

her years on earth

8:48

with real life Jane Austin. Because Lydia was

8:51

alive. Well, actually, no, no, she no,

8:53

no, she would have

8:55

shared more. but where off

8:57

kicks off is the year 1814 and 1812.

8:59

Yeah, I think we had I think we had

9:01

to change it. had to change

9:03

it. change it. Wow, I've

9:06

got I've got an alternative universe.

9:08

Yeah, it became 1812 because

9:10

of the next years So

9:13

there's five in 1817.

9:15

Because Austin dies in 1817. Yes. Yeah,

9:17

yes, 1817, yeah, and it obviously next year

9:19

is the 250th anniversary of

9:21

her her as well. well. Oh, wow, yeah,

9:24

it's big it's Big Austin, yeah. So

9:26

you set set yourself in that Austin

9:28

period. so that so that must have

9:30

been great fun doing doing. a kid's

9:32

version of what you would do

9:34

on right? Did that help in some

9:36

ways? Did you improv with yourself with yourself

9:38

to bring the characters to much help. yeah, when Yeah, I

9:41

started writing a kids book, I did think,

9:43

oh, I should just set it in book, I did

9:45

think, oh, I been doing ostentatious for 14 years. times,

9:47

we used to do like, I mean, we

9:49

still do occasionally, but when we first started,

9:51

we'd have like we nights do we'd all take

9:53

an aspect of Georgian history and like tell

9:55

each other about it so that when we're

9:57

improvising, you could say the right thing. like, could

10:00

say, So cool. Like whether there's postal postal

10:02

or postal which there isn't, you know,

10:04

you have to pay for it,

10:06

and someone would come to your

10:08

house and for it, and different. would come your

10:10

we are at war just that

10:12

time is the French is always

10:14

the French. like who we are at war so is

10:16

the know that always the of like

10:18

1810 to kind 1816, like to really,

10:20

really really, And so yeah, I wanted

10:22

to write a book that was

10:24

in that fun period, because I

10:26

think that period of English history

10:28

is really there's just so

10:30

much going on. It's very exciting. And it's

10:32

before the Victorians kind of like make

10:35

everything kind sense make kind of make everything. And

10:37

it is really, really and it is really, really like not regulated

10:39

of Wild West. sort of And yeah, I

10:41

mean, I mean, were definitely in ostentatious we have six

10:43

people per show. there And there were definitely

10:45

times when I was writing it, and

10:47

I was like, and I only included six, as

10:50

if that's the only for I'd be in

10:52

scene seeking you could you could have another person out

10:54

because I'm like like, that would would be that and

10:56

that would be Joe, that would be me,

10:58

would be would you're like, and you're think I

11:00

might need to stop. to stop so first draft was

11:02

quite ostentatious and then I had to then I it

11:04

a book make it a book rather than an an

11:06

improv show. show, but yeah, it definitely enjoy

11:09

the process? I found

11:11

writing for kids process? I a

11:13

fascinating territory such a fascinating weirdly

11:15

a bigger challenge a of

11:18

how you have to appeal story

11:20

-wise to them. to them. Yeah,

11:22

I enjoyed a lot. a a lot. my

11:24

nonfiction book, book, people know me know me from Greek

11:26

was about grief. and I wrote I wrote that

11:28

during the pandemic. So yeah, someone saying to

11:30

me, do you want to write a do

11:32

book to you're not locked down with two

11:35

small children? was like, with please. That

11:37

sounds yes of fun. But yeah, I also

11:39

read a lot of books to my of

11:41

books to my year old. And, and you know,

11:43

you know how critical they are from your

11:45

own experience. I'm sure like if you

11:47

have to give them a story really quickly quickly,

11:49

and you can't muck around, you can't

11:51

be nuanced. you can't be like, oh, oh worry. worry

11:53

200 on your pages, but eventually

11:55

you'll realize something is happening. happening even

11:57

though they want story now, happening

11:59

why is she here? What are we doing? we

12:01

doing? So yeah, it makes you kind of, and again,

12:03

improvial audience is a bit

12:05

similar because, you know, you as players don't you as

12:08

players don't know what you happening. So you have

12:10

to be quite quick at establishing this is what

12:12

the story is, we're going to do this. And

12:14

that's how the group works together to tell the

12:16

story because you make it really explicit from the

12:18

beginning. from the beginning. And that is, if we

12:20

were all being subtle, we'd be like, well,

12:22

I don't be like, well, I don't. What are you you

12:24

trying to tell me? Like, are you in love with

12:26

me? Should I think that you're I propose? that you

12:28

need to make it clear. You need yeah,

12:30

it was a joy So I absolutely loved writing

12:32

this book. So you mentioned loved a

12:34

second ago, that was your entry

12:36

into the world of podcasting, a

12:39

it was a thunderous hit your entry into

12:41

the world of podcasting. what do you mean? Oh, because we had a

12:43

chat. We had a chat. That's the reason Griefcast

12:45

started And it was a thunderous I always credit you and

12:47

I always say that I went for a

12:49

chat with you I I was so unsure about

12:51

this idea I always I told you it and you

12:53

went, Huh, that's a good a good idea. said, oh, And

12:55

I said, think I'd did you think I'd have a

12:57

bad one? And you were like, well, lots of lots of

12:59

people have, you know, ideas for podcasts, but I

13:01

think you should do that. And you told me

13:03

to get a Twitter and get an email. And

13:06

I was like, I'll I'll do both of things. And like,

13:08

honestly, you were the you were the one that made me

13:10

think, okay, I'll do it. Dan thinks I'll do it.

13:12

a good thinks this is a good idea.

13:14

happened. That's what happened. I I thought it was a great

13:16

idea from the get the don't know, I don't know, you're it

13:18

like I was like, I was like, yeah, I guess that's... No, no,

13:20

you were very like, you should do should do that.

13:22

That's good. in But in a very like

13:24

professional way way of, I a lot of of

13:26

And this is actually a good idea.

13:28

idea. You gave that impression of like, hmm. like, hmm.

13:31

that's yeah do that yeah, do that, Carrie -Ed,

13:33

otherwise someone else is to do yeah I Yeah,

13:35

I but it. But also was it was it

13:37

was someone who was a comedian at the time the

13:39

time when a lot of comedians were saying

13:41

they're getting into podcasts and there was no

13:43

substance and the idea. was no there you are

13:45

with this idea that was just one of

13:47

the most important topics out there. No one

13:49

was doing it. And it and way you were

13:51

talking about it, I knew you weren't going

13:53

to you be afraid to be as serious as

13:55

you were you to get the funny side

13:57

out of it. And that there and was like, was

13:59

like holy shit please. make it I remember you asked

14:01

me on and I I I

14:03

said because the only major only major

14:05

story at the time that I

14:07

had was story as it it was someone

14:09

else's story, as in it was

14:11

my cousin, story to I felt like it

14:13

wasn't my story to tell, even

14:15

though it had affected me in quite

14:17

a bad way. I always ever regretted

14:19

not ever coming onto it because

14:21

you did stop it. And I remember

14:23

you saying, because after many years,

14:25

it's an intense subject on a a weekly

14:27

basis basis to be just hearing so much

14:30

I did it for seven years over it for seven

14:32

years, and 200 interviews, you and then I

14:34

wrote the book You Are Not Alone,

14:36

which is like everything I've learned from

14:38

talking about death for that long. and I

14:40

really feel like everything I possibly could

14:42

tell anybody is in the book because when

14:44

you you do something like that, obviously,

14:46

as the the front face of that situation, you

14:49

get a lot of emails from people

14:51

who are really struggling and really vulnerable.

14:53

And I wanted there to be this

14:55

there to be I am a comedian, I am a

14:57

comedian medically trained mental health professional. health And

14:59

I was mental I was to help people.

15:01

And for me, my own mental health to

15:03

hold my this grief that people were dealing

15:05

with. grief So yeah, the book is, with.

15:07

are not alone. It's out there. It's everything

15:09

that I think think you know, you need

15:12

for when you're, you enter this awful

15:14

club with the best members. But yeah, I'm

15:16

on a, I'm on a break. a I

15:18

don't officially say it's ended say it's know

15:20

what grieving people don't like grieving people So I

15:22

don't like so I don't like to But, and knows? I'm someone

15:24

who will like say never. But yeah, I'm

15:26

definitely on on a hiatus at the moment. Yeah. And

15:28

you not the fact, of people said of because they

15:31

felt like oh this grief is not mine

15:33

or it's not valid mine or it's not valid. And I would

15:35

fully respect that because you have to be

15:37

comfortable talking about it like talking be no

15:39

point me being like no be no is your

15:41

grief it's like dad, is your if that's how you

15:43

feel that's how you feel that's okay and

15:45

maybe I'll it again and we can do and

15:48

we can do it. Yeah, Well, I I did actually

15:50

do your live show. did one

15:52

of of your live shows, which was great fun. And that that

15:54

dipped into a lot in the

15:56

live show that the I'm that I'm

15:58

interested in. we didn't quite get into it

16:00

when we were on the were show.

16:02

We talked a bit about it with

16:04

the guests that were on with me. were

16:06

on with me, but must have had a lot

16:08

of times during Griefcast where people have

16:10

told you about being visited by their

16:12

loved ones or weird experiences in the

16:14

final moments. them calling out to people

16:16

standing in a room the room, of the

16:19

third of the third man factor as it's known. Not as many as

16:21

you think, you know, I I also I do

16:23

take quite do take quite seriously because grieving

16:25

grieving people are vulnerable that I wouldn't

16:27

go into that side of it

16:29

too much unless they wanted to I am

16:31

I am a firm believer that

16:33

there are people who take advantage of

16:35

grieving people because they are are... some

16:37

of the most desperate people in the

16:39

world people they world an answer from

16:42

the other side so badly the other side so

16:44

they will take their money and

16:46

they will their whatever they need to

16:48

hear say whatever they need to hear and There's other podcasts

16:50

that deal with grief that really, really

16:52

talk about that, like like mediums and ghosts connections

16:54

and know it you know visitations I just made

16:56

the choice very early on, I think because

16:58

think, because I I have family members

17:00

that have been have been churches and believe,

17:02

so my dad died when I

17:04

was 15, and that's why I do

17:06

the show. and I have family members

17:09

that really believe he's visited them. And

17:11

I always get very I always

17:13

get that he visits that he visits.

17:15

Funny that he visits that but not Reading,

17:18

but not me. That is it? has made

17:20

that choice. made that choice. A rude of anything. So

17:22

some people would talk about people would talk about it.

17:24

I definitely have had moments where people

17:26

have talked about it, but I tried really

17:28

to focus on grief, on not any kind

17:30

of the mystery of it, because I

17:32

think grieving people already have enough on their

17:34

plate without someone promising something that they

17:36

can't. guarantee. that they can't

17:38

guarantee. Yeah. What I I feel very strongly

17:40

is, you know, when people say, say, I knew

17:43

they were there or I had this presence, I

17:45

got this message, message. that stuff is great. but

17:47

But you also have a huge amount of people

17:49

who say, I've had nothing. I've I've had never had

17:51

that. I've never felt them. I've never had a

17:53

weird coincidence. Does that mean they didn't love

17:55

me? So you really have to hold all of

17:57

these people who are grieving grieving and say, look, if

18:00

you've never had anything. that

18:02

doesn't mean that person didn't love you

18:04

or there's no after know, like

18:06

it doesn't mean anything. It just means

18:08

for some people, this thing was

18:10

real and meant something, but you can

18:12

equally have no experience of that.

18:14

And um yeah maybe we should talk

18:16

about that because I, I really

18:18

have had no light. super

18:21

experiences with my dad like I've

18:23

never had like, oh, you know,

18:25

I saw something but I am

18:27

also a terrible terrible cat like

18:29

absolutely terrified. and I

18:32

remember having a Halloween party.

18:35

After he died, and we were watching us

18:37

like I mean, it scary because I've

18:39

only seen two scary films in my life.

18:41

and like it's Pet cemetery three one

18:43

bad sleepover and the because I could was

18:45

too scared to turn it off. like I

18:47

had to watch it all I literally couldn't

18:49

move. um pet cemetery 3

18:51

I I wouldn't, I wouldn't recommend

18:53

it. was at Angela's house at primary

18:55

school. They put it on. I watched

18:57

the entire thing in a sleeping bag

18:59

crying. So I am, I am very

19:01

very easily scared. so this Halloween party

19:04

after my dad died. A

19:06

plate fell off. and

19:08

it cracked in half. And it was

19:10

just, obviously, there's like eight girls all

19:13

like, and no, no. And I remember

19:15

thinking, oh you know, it was a bit,

19:17

you know, it's like breaks and you can't work out. it

19:19

It was, it was like still on the table. So it

19:21

looked like it hadn't fallen off. It just had this snap

19:23

in half and it was very old plate and I went

19:25

to the kitchen and I said out loud, if you're

19:27

there, I don't want a message. I don't want you to

19:29

do anything. because it's terrifying. me So

19:31

I made it pretty fucking clear. was

19:34

like, do not like do anything. Because

19:36

what does and this is a really

19:38

important thing with grief of like, especially

19:40

young children, what does it mean if

19:42

they can see you? yeah

19:44

yes. fucking get like what they can see

19:46

me all the time. They can see me when I'm

19:48

doing things I'm not meant to because I'm a

19:50

teenager. They can see me when I'm not having a

19:52

good time. so I think it's a really, I

19:55

get really, as you can hear, like really we've got

19:57

to be super careful with what we. Put

19:59

out there. And that doesn't mean

20:01

if you've had an experience like I would

20:03

never belittle that but and I have

20:05

since then had strange experiences But I'm just

20:07

very careful to be like You

20:10

know, these are these are the really vulnerable

20:12

people and especially when you're talking about loss

20:14

of a child and stuff like that Like

20:17

extremely vulnerable people that would would would do

20:19

anything to know that there that that person

20:21

is okay and not in danger Absolutely.

20:24

That that the everything that I

20:26

have a basic interest in when

20:28

it comes to things like that's

20:30

in this show. Every

20:32

single one of them has a tip

20:34

-over point into danger. And it's trying

20:37

to stay on that right side

20:39

where you're not encouraging anyone to do

20:41

exactly that kind of stuff. So

20:43

you've paused it, let's say it's paused,

20:45

but it really was a remarkable

20:47

show and you absolutely delivered on the

20:49

thing that you told me that

20:51

day of wanting to make something that

20:53

was that was help people and

20:55

it was gonna be a club for

20:57

people to come to. And if

20:59

anyone listening hasn't heard an episode yet,

21:01

a good starting point On my

21:03

side, I would say there's an

21:05

incredible Romesh Ranganathan episode. amazing,

21:09

amazing episode. and And because and

21:11

because were so brilliant at making

21:13

them feel safe to say these

21:15

things as well, like to you

21:17

for being such a brilliant interviewer

21:19

where people felt they could go

21:21

beyond that little lip of privacy

21:23

to go, God, I've never really

21:25

told anyone this before. It's that

21:27

moment where you know, okay, you

21:29

bet got someone safe that they're

21:32

talking to here So yeah, people do

21:34

need to check it out. We might

21:36

as well get into your batshit list

21:38

because we're touching on go see it

21:40

Like you're saying that you possibly your

21:42

only experience was you saying, no, no,

21:44

thank you. But you have ticked 14

21:46

on the batshit list. Which I honestly

21:48

was like like some of them I was

21:50

like oh not that no I don't believe that

21:52

I don't believe that I'm quite rational aren't I

21:54

look I am a bit woo -woo my parents

21:57

would describe themselves I would have described themselves as

21:59

hippies they were in Colts in the

22:01

70s. Oh, give us more. What kind of cars?

22:03

No, I don't to give it to you. My

22:06

mom's still alive, she'll kill me. She's

22:08

like, stop telling me what weird. They

22:11

were just involved in like very lot

22:13

of like self development cults. Okay. So

22:15

people will, if you really, look, your

22:17

listeners will want to know Est, okay?

22:19

Est is the one that were heavily

22:21

involved in. Est. Ertaz training. you know

22:23

your cults from the 70s, Est is

22:26

an original. It is same time as

22:28

Scientology, very similar, but has no aliens

22:30

in it. It's all about you can

22:32

change your life. You can like are

22:34

the powerful person, you can take responsibility.

22:36

So when I read about Scientology, I was

22:38

like, oh, They nicked the

22:40

same things except Erwan Hobbard went,

22:42

and aliens. and Werner Hardall

22:44

went, no, no aliens, but also

22:46

give me loads of money.

22:49

What What's his name, Werner? Werner Erthardt.

22:51

So Erdhart seminar training was

22:53

what's called in the 70s and

22:55

it changes. Oh, I know

22:57

that. Yeah. It its to landmark

22:59

forum due to like tax

23:01

reasons, I think. Right. it's referenced

23:03

in, is it Annie Hall? They

23:06

make it when he goes to LA, Paul

23:08

Simon says, oh yeah, I've been doing that

23:10

Est training. It was like extremely fashionable. And

23:12

when I saw that in Annie Hall, I

23:14

was like, the thing that my parents did

23:16

that no one knows about. So if you're

23:18

into your Colts, You know Est. Yeah,

23:20

it's of the rich knows There's

23:23

a podcast called Seeker, which is all

23:25

the live lectures of Ken Campbell.

23:27

Oh, who I used to work with. Oh, get

23:29

the fuck out. You worked with

23:31

Ken. I mean, he sounds like

23:33

the most chaotic human to have

23:35

ever worked with, but I love

23:37

everything about what his output

23:39

was. I'm sad for you that you didn't

23:41

meet him, because he would have loved you very,

23:43

very much. You were right up his alley, right

23:45

up his alley, definitely. Yeah, I did improv with

23:47

him. Because that was his final stage, wasn't

23:50

it? He did showstoppers, was it? Was he

23:52

part of the... He taught a lot. He

23:54

mentored and taught most of the

23:56

gang who created showstopper. He wasn't really

23:58

part of showstopper. And And

24:00

yeah, I met him just after the ventriloquism was

24:02

ending and he was moving into improvisation and

24:04

I sort of worked with him for the last

24:06

six to eight months of his life and

24:08

I did improv Shakespeare with him and he used

24:10

to kind of choose you a gift and

24:12

I did a workshop with him and he was

24:14

like, you can improvise Gertrude Stein, that's going

24:16

to be your thing. And

24:19

improv dance, he used to get me

24:22

to just improvise different styles of dance

24:25

and we used to of do mad, mad gigs with

24:27

Ken and then he, yeah, I went to his

24:29

house and went for a

24:31

big walk with him and the dogs

24:33

and a forest. yeah, he was

24:35

an incredible human, but absolutely. I mean,

24:37

he, yeah, you would, you and

24:39

him, you would have been a good

24:41

match. Oh, that that is that is

24:43

so cool to hear And one of the

24:46

things that he did was he went on

24:48

that course Oh, did he do Est, God,

24:50

I you know what? I don't think me and

24:52

Ken ever talked about that, Isn't that funny?

24:54

Because I don't bring it up that much because

24:56

it's who have have very negative connotations of

24:58

forum as it is now. So,

25:00

yeah. Oh, well, I'll send you that episode.

25:02

It's on his, yeah, it's on that podcast,

25:04

Secret, which which is put together by his

25:06

daughter, Daisy Daisy Harris. Daisy, yeah, Yeah, yeah.

25:08

So I know Daisy, and it's made with

25:10

another guy called David Bramwell, who's brilliant. so

25:12

were your parents out of that by the

25:14

time you were around? Yeah, they were but

25:16

they were just woo -woo. They were just

25:18

definitely into, like, They're just

25:20

into alternatives, you know, like they were very

25:22

alternative. But to look at them, they

25:24

looked the most suburban normal people you've you've

25:26

ever met. But my dad was particularly

25:28

into like pushing boundaries of things. And I

25:30

think my mom was a bit Uh,

25:33

up, up for that. And then eventually

25:35

was like, well, it's a bit much

25:37

about kids. It's just what I watch

25:39

telly, watch Cardacea Street, a cup of

25:41

tea, um, cause she's much more working

25:43

class in background, but my dad was

25:46

really into yeah, meditation and gurus and

25:48

cults and any drugs, any weird shit.

25:50

So I grew up with, you know,

25:52

this dad that like did Tai Chi

25:54

in the garden and had a picture

25:56

of a guru on his car and

25:59

had mantras. So. I'm very very accepting

26:01

of these things because I very much

26:03

grew up with like lots of weird shit. And

26:05

of weird is super And then my mom

26:07

is superstitions. She's like from Eastern She's like So she's

26:09

got this all So she's got this all

26:11

kind of like folk background of

26:13

like things you shouldn't do. so I And

26:16

so I definitely believe in a

26:18

lot more stuff than perhaps I've noticed

26:20

I I went with ostentatious and to have

26:22

been brought up much more normal more

26:24

normal. The things say say they'd be like

26:26

What? And I And I was like, oh, well, we

26:28

all, you know, we all know you've got a

26:31

spit and sleep with a spit and you know, or, yeah,

26:33

sure, we've all done meditation or, have a family

26:35

member that went to a silent retreat for 10

26:37

days and had a breakdown. We've all, we've all

26:39

got a family member that went slowly realized how weird

26:41

my family for got older. did you a you engage

26:43

in it as a kid all, you go and do

26:45

tai chi in the garden with your dad slowly realized

26:47

thing. When your parent does something, it's

26:50

just as a kid, isn't it? you go

26:52

and it's embarrassing. It's just embarrassing

26:54

and weird. with your dad or? No, also

26:56

when you are around it

26:58

all the time, or if people

27:00

tell you that like they they wanted

27:02

a Leo girl. So that's

27:04

why your why is in August. is

27:06

in August you just are like, sure okay it's

27:08

normal. like you believe in star

27:11

signs star you believe in, in they

27:13

weren't particularly ghosty, like that

27:15

kind of side of of side of it

27:17

but definitely we would now describe

27:19

as describe as like alternative therapies. Oh,

27:21

they just sound Oh they sound like they were

27:23

part of, sound like that big. of yeah mean,

27:25

that's, that's kind of the period I wish

27:28

I was more in the of period I wish I

27:30

it, Dan. the You would have loved it.

27:32

Like, you they went to see my people

27:34

you My it like these stories, to we went

27:36

there and talk my mom has all these Oh, I went

27:38

there and David Bowie was passed man was oh

27:40

I've to and off his face. he was

27:42

passed down know and we went there and

27:44

they locked us in a cupboard for

27:46

three days to see what happened and

27:48

and like yeah real counterculture stuff so good good. so good did

27:50

you have, was your education

27:52

then? Did they send you to

27:54

they send school? normal school yeah complete normal really yeah

27:56

the thing, like, I'm a real like I'm a I'm

27:59

a real, I'm a real like I I think I think mum

28:01

had a kind of urge for us not to be

28:03

too weird. So it was

28:05

like, oh, you know, don't make them

28:07

too weird because my dad was so

28:09

weird. So my mom was quite good

28:11

counterbalance like, make sure that they're, yeah,

28:13

just at normal schools, like not not

28:15

private schools, just like local schools around

28:17

the corner And just like very normal.

28:19

And my mom definitely comes across as

28:21

extremely normal these days. And, you know, her

28:23

like friends and I say, do you ever tell them what you

28:25

did? Like, no. No, no, no, no, no, no,

28:27

no. Hey, no, no. Like, now she just

28:30

seems like a lovely, normal lady. Right.

28:32

Yeah, but I think if my dad

28:34

was still around, it would

28:36

still be fucking weird, but he was bringing

28:38

the weird, basically. He was the you in

28:40

the situation down there was like, let's talk

28:42

about this stuff. Like, yeah, but I

28:44

have a feeling there's a big difference between

28:46

me and him, which is that I'm fascinated

28:48

by it, but I don't live any of

28:50

it or necessarily believe in it. I wouldn't

28:53

go on those courses, but I would love

28:55

to sit down and say, I would love

28:57

to sit with your dad and go, tell

28:59

me about that course, tell me about the

29:01

cupboard, tell me about the Tai Chi in

29:03

the morning. And that's a fascinating thing, though.

29:05

to, you know, what

29:07

was going on in his head

29:09

to day? I don't know. were were

29:12

you living in suburbia? Like where? Yeah,

29:14

yeah, living suburbia, really normal like

29:16

normal cars, like two week holidays

29:18

in the in the summer, like,

29:20

honestly, they passed as normal, but

29:22

they were fucking weird, like they're

29:24

just Really weird. And and

29:27

that's the thing with both my parents. I think it's

29:29

like, there's such a tension of like, they did believe

29:31

this stuff, but up to a point. And

29:33

then they would kind of come back and be

29:35

like, oh, actually, maybe it's sort of bullshit. So like

29:37

my mom definitely has a very healthy, like bullshit

29:39

filter of like, come on, like up to a point,

29:41

but I guess they're just quite, they're quite spirit,

29:43

They were very spiritual as well. And kind of we

29:45

used to go to Fintorn, which is like this

29:48

place. Oh my you carried, you're

29:50

like the child of

29:52

weird. You're you're it

29:54

all. You're am. Yeah,

29:57

That's where they were growing vegetables,

29:59

right? Giant vegetables. and Ruby Wax now now. And

30:01

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because I think she's

30:03

she's finding that fascinating as well I

30:05

could say I could say, so I mean I

30:07

mean, the thing the thing though, like. I I

30:09

think there's a difference between believing in

30:11

all that stuff right now right believing it

30:13

in the it in the Yes, definitely. Because

30:15

in the In the 70s it was about the drugs.

30:17

Look, it was easy You knew You You knew

30:19

what you were getting. was pure. But

30:22

But now now I I wouldn't take something Now

30:24

don't know what you're getting. Like getting. Like

30:26

was like was innocent. And very and like this.

30:28

And the phrase brainwashing was invented, I

30:30

think I think, by est. And it was literally

30:32

like, let us wash your brain. it needs

30:34

to be cleaned of all this, like

30:36

this horrible dirt that's making you feel

30:38

unhappy. you feel they meant it positively. meant it

30:41

positively. Absolutely, yeah. Very innocent. I mean,

30:43

not to say that there's not evil behind

30:45

that, but behind they really did mean it from

30:47

a good point of view. a good point of

30:49

view. things, things, things get corrupted, don't they,

30:51

as they go along. But along. But like period

30:53

was when basically the West discovered Eastern philosophies

30:55

and so on. That all came through.

30:57

And why wouldn't you get sucked into the

30:59

idea? It's like finding out about being

31:01

a a Jedi, you know, and be like, like,

31:03

there's a force that I can, that I

31:05

can try and do. and So you went

31:07

to all the, I mean, certainly in

31:09

the UK, it sounds like, like UK, it what

31:11

do you remember about like just remember

31:13

staying in a caravan that was

31:15

really about Finnhorn? I I remember things in a

31:17

you're a kid but you're a kid

31:20

in these really shit. And I remember you got

31:22

brothers and sisters? you're a older brother but you're a kid in these

31:24

would be very like you and my brother an older

31:26

sense of humor it's quite cheeky we again I

31:28

think it comes from my that like that bullshit

31:30

filter so people would come up to you

31:32

and you knew they were weird were they were

31:34

friends of your parents but you could just get

31:36

a vibe like there was like you could

31:38

down the road went to school with

31:40

their kids, they were normal, you felt

31:42

that from them. to then you go to

31:44

their be like, they were normal, you felt just had

31:46

so wonderful to see you to Finton and and

31:48

you'd be like, like, oh, I she's weird.

31:50

What's happening? She's being really weird. Carrie And

31:53

then they would give you, be like, oh,

31:55

the barley cup, like horrible, disgusting drinks

31:57

that women would tell you, it's just

31:59

like hot chocolate. And then. you'd this disgusting fuck

32:01

it everything was sugar -free was chocolate like

32:03

thing as a kid Like that's the thing as

32:05

you mustn't have that it's got dairy

32:07

in it and you're like oh i

32:09

want some cake like this is disgusting and

32:11

you're then want we're going to like, session

32:13

now and you we're into a room and

32:15

people are shouting session now, and you just want

32:17

to go and play and people you know

32:19

that things are weird and play, this is i

32:21

think because we have this normal like

32:24

the other side was normal we we have,

32:26

My My parents didn't live in the commune,

32:28

know, my dad ran a business ran a business

32:30

and like worked in in marketing. That's how he

32:32

got involved in S. He worked in PR

32:34

in PR he did the PR for S when

32:36

it first came over from America. America. And And

32:38

they said to him, if you do

32:41

this, you have to take the course. Everyone

32:43

who works works the us does the course. He did

32:45

it. He was like, right, my wife needs to

32:47

to do it. My mom became the the,

32:49

like, one of her, her tarts, nanny, like were like, involved because they

32:51

just like, just went went deep, I but

32:53

then I think they, when my mum

32:55

said she had kids and it just became

32:58

just became a bit oh all this shit. bit

33:00

I'm tired. shit, I'm I just want to go

33:02

home. to go home. But yeah, so because we have this

33:04

like like normal touch stone. I I just remember

33:06

the food being the people being weird.

33:08

It's quite nice to be outside. it's quite

33:10

nice to be outside. I I didn't have like,

33:12

children do not appreciate these things. And

33:14

I and course a I was 16 I

33:16

was 16 called Insight. which was was based of

33:18

people who've done landmark forum, but they

33:20

found the selling too aggressive. So

33:22

they created so they and guess what Dan,

33:24

it did not work as a

33:26

marketing model and it had to close.

33:29

a marketing model didn't have a hard sell,

33:31

didn't but like sell but were very lovely.

33:33

lovely these adults were saying to me,

33:35

to me You're so so lucky you're knowing this

33:37

now like I'm in my 30s and and my

33:39

life has been ruined like and now and now doing

33:41

this development now You're so lucky, but when when

33:43

teenager lucky like, but I'm not lucky because this

33:45

is the same shit my parents have told

33:47

me my whole life So I is the same can't

33:49

rebel against this. I'm not being delivered I information rebel

33:52

against this I'm already know this

33:54

and I still feel, guess what?

33:56

Life's still kind of hard. feel like life's

33:58

still kind of hard like yeah so a, of it's it's

34:00

interesting to be the child of weird because

34:02

the weird parents are like, this is the

34:04

magic land. We're gonna bring our kids up

34:06

here and they're gonna be enlightened. But when

34:08

you're the child of weird, you're like, yeah,

34:10

this is normal. And I can

34:12

see the problems in it, there's problems in everything. right?

34:14

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Being brought up

34:17

by super religious parents, you're like, well,

34:19

guys, this isn't the answer to everything,

34:21

is it? So you do things

34:23

like Primal Scream? Like when all that stuff

34:25

was happening, did you actually go? because

34:27

you had to or? No, I wouldn't

34:29

have done that. There was definitely like kids

34:31

activities like there was a few things

34:33

I think my mum kept us away from

34:35

the super weird stuff. My mum would

34:38

be like, I think we're gonna go outside

34:40

do some drawing Like I think she

34:42

felt a bit like it's getting a bit

34:44

weird, isn't it? Like isn't But we do

34:46

like had like I had like right

34:48

Reiki Reiki healing and from a young age

34:50

and crystal healing and I tell you

34:52

what the other thing that happens is when

34:54

someone gets so my dad got cancer

34:56

And all the weirdos turned up and

34:59

none of it worked, he died. So that's

35:01

quite significant thing that happened to me at

35:03

15. People were coming with Chinese herbs, people

35:05

were delivering, we would go to this woman's

35:07

house and she would just give him light

35:09

for like an hour and I'd have to

35:11

sit there and wait. And I remember my

35:13

mom then being like, like what, he's

35:15

dying, this isn't working. We could just be

35:17

at home and we could be, but as

35:19

my dad was still in like, yes, we're

35:21

gonna do this. We're gonna like I'm gonna

35:23

go to Finnton, they're gonna save me. And

35:25

so it's quite significant, I think, to have

35:27

those things not work. and go,

35:29

yeah, at the end day, people do still

35:31

die. And that is coming back to what

35:34

we said earlier is my thing with mediums

35:36

and all of that stuff, like people do

35:38

still die. So why don't we deal with

35:40

that rather than thinking, how can we still

35:42

reach them? Because even if we get a

35:44

message, it's just a message. That person

35:46

isn't here anymore. And that's what you

35:48

actually need to deal with. So you've

35:50

got to keep a healthy sense of

35:52

who, what does someone gain from giving

35:54

me this information? Like, what

35:56

are they gaining from this? Are they

35:58

gaining money or power or status? Like, are they

36:00

they gaining especially status in an

36:02

institution like a a cult you know, a

36:04

know a self -development workshop, you want to call

36:06

it like what did they gain if

36:08

they did they gain? If they gain it's clear that they've

36:10

just said to me just said

36:13

to know I've had had, I had a

36:15

really sweet thing this man He was really

36:17

good friends of my dad friends my dad, and

36:19

after Griefcast had been out for a few

36:21

years years, of his friends got in

36:23

touch friends this man wrote to me and

36:25

to me and... He's really not woo He He

36:28

was like his business friend, know, like other side

36:30

of my dad's side of brain. And he said,

36:32

he said, oh, I just tell to tell you

36:34

this really strange thing happened after I I knew

36:36

died. died. at a I was at a conference.

36:38

My dad used to test of conferences. And he said, I

36:40

was at a conference and I was giving

36:42

a talk. a talk. and at the back

36:44

of the hall, saw your saw your was

36:46

handing out he was handing out business cards and

36:48

talking, my dad was a big big networker really to

36:50

people. What's the story? How can we get on?

36:52

the can we help you? we get on what can said,

36:54

he saw him handing out business cards and he

36:56

thought, saw him handing out I'll talk to him afterwards.

36:58

Lovely, great, he's here. great And he to his talk

37:01

and then he came off and he thought, here

37:03

and he finished He's dead. and then he

37:05

came off and he's dead like what me, for that

37:07

man gained nothing in telling me that

37:09

story. that story The story is very, it

37:11

sounds like something my dad would do. dad

37:13

would do. I can I can imagine him still

37:15

wanting to go to a conference and

37:17

like hang out like hang out on he loved

37:19

that. he loved that And gained you know he didn't tell

37:22

know, he didn't tell me straight away. He didn't want

37:24

anything from me. He told me 20 years later later

37:26

and I thought, yeah I I can imagine that my my

37:28

spirit. kind of of did go back

37:30

to a conference and then eventually eventually

37:32

go, they went there. went there. He's

37:34

not still permanently conference. at that'd be

37:36

terrible. How sad be terrible how sad for the eternity but

37:38

me was a very comforting way

37:40

of telling someone something slightly weird. Cause

37:42

you're like, yeah, you don't need

37:44

anything from me. need And also from

37:46

me and also would have done for

37:49

him, done for him that's to the to the

37:51

side when you you have an experience

37:53

like that and it just gives,

37:55

for your dad's for your gives him

37:57

that it gives of going, moment of feel feel

37:59

I bit better. about my grief about

38:01

it. I had a I had of friend of

38:03

mine an an experience where his mum

38:05

passed away and he was incredibly

38:07

sad and he decided after passed away

38:09

that he would bring his daughter to

38:12

temple, they were Jewish, Jewish, but he's

38:14

never followed the religion at all. very

38:16

very rational. he But he thought mum

38:18

used to go there every week she

38:20

put him put him through all the

38:22

stuff he had a He had everything, all

38:24

that sort of stuff. So he

38:26

thought I want to show my daughter

38:29

he thought I want to show my daughter what my

38:31

doing into this temple. Yeah, so they go

38:33

there and when you arrive, you

38:35

get handed the the prayers you you

38:37

down sit down and sitting there with his

38:39

daughter looking around daughter he's flipping

38:41

through the book that they've handed

38:44

and on the inside of the

38:46

book is his name. his mother's handwriting

38:48

and the idea think the was his mother's handwriting. for

38:50

And the idea was that the temple relied

38:52

on donations for people to sponsor these books.

38:54

They came in and when he had his did

38:56

that as those years ago, she did that as

38:58

part of his bar mitzvah. She sponsored a

39:00

book. and so he sat there and had all

39:02

over all over him where a random book

39:05

that was handed to him as he walked

39:07

in, to be to be the one that his

39:09

mom had. he And he suddenly had this moment

39:11

where he went, went I I don't believe that

39:13

she's here, but that's done something the hell of a

39:15

lot of good for me. of a lot of stuff

39:17

like that, love stuff like that. I just beautiful

39:19

that. that's about love. That is

39:21

about, look, someone loved you so

39:23

much that somehow loved you so moment is

39:25

happening, whether it's them or the

39:28

universe or energy or that still

39:30

exists. or it is, it has

39:32

a meaning. like whatever it is, it has a one

39:34

can take that meaning from you. No

39:36

take can say, well, you know, the

39:38

chances are could nearby, you went to a

39:41

temple, chances are know, live. that you picked

39:43

up up your Bible was 500 you know, it doesn't

39:45

matter what someone matter what someone like logic of

39:47

it. The meaning exists and that's magic. like

39:49

is magic. We don't need to believe

39:51

in weedy boards and all the kind

39:53

of kind It's like, it's like magic already

39:56

exists. Why are you going hunting for the stuff

39:58

that? for the stuff that you you're I

40:00

can't describe it like you're putting on that When I

40:02

did grief cast so many people came with all these, oh

40:04

I had to sign, I had to sign. and in

40:06

the early days, that was talking to the

40:08

twins these amazing. I don't even know, they

40:10

were DJs and now they run like this

40:12

kind of like gut biome company. amazing. Cause

40:14

they're twins and they were, um twins are

40:16

obviously have genetically the same, but they have

40:18

different biomes. And so they they offered a

40:20

twin study because it was like, well, why

40:22

do you have different biomes? And was then they

40:25

found out about how important it was. They

40:27

created their own company that makes like protein

40:29

bars and stuff. Anyway, their dad died very

40:31

suddenly. And they said, oh, we always hear

40:33

this song every time we go in this

40:35

this plays. And I, said I've

40:37

never had that, like I've never got anything

40:39

like that. And I was like, it's a bit

40:41

annoying because he was really into music. He

40:43

was a DJ, was kind of irritating. and about

40:45

a week later, we were walking past, um

40:48

this is the word on the water, it's the

40:50

book on the water in Kings Cross that

40:52

also sells like records. oh Yeah, yeah, I

40:54

that. and uh there is

40:56

the band that my dad loved

40:58

so much and he taped for

41:00

me. And this band is called

41:02

Quintessence and they're really weird 70s

41:04

band. I've never met anyone who's

41:06

ever heard of them. Quintessence. yeah

41:08

And like the songs are like

41:10

govah dina like just singing like

41:12

you know, um they sound like Cooley

41:14

Shaker That's what my dad thought. I'd like

41:17

them. And my husband was going through the

41:19

vinyl and he went, isn't this Quintessence And

41:21

he had the vinyl. and I was like, I've

41:23

never seen a vinyl. The only thing I had

41:25

is a tape and the tape broke. No one

41:27

has ever heard of this band. A week before

41:29

I said, he's never given me a fucking sign

41:31

of music. And so again, I was like, and

41:33

I just said out loud, I was like, Thanks.

41:35

thanks I don't need

41:37

a lot. That's enough. know what? That's fine. I I

41:39

don't need you to hover in front of me.

41:42

I just like, you know what? Thank you. and I

41:44

like that's great Got it played it and it

41:46

was all these songs I haven't heard since I

41:48

was a teenager and I was like Oh my

41:50

god, like so lovely. So yeah, I think stuff

41:52

like that is just it's magic. That is real

41:54

magic absolutely batshit album if anyone wants to

41:56

listen to Quintess. Oh, I'm definitely going to track that

41:58

down. Must be on spot hopefully. Well, okay, well,

42:00

synchronicity is is one of your

42:03

ticks. Is that, Is that of a

42:05

sort of meaningful coincidence in that

42:07

that's what I mean. When I what I mean. that's

42:09

what I mean. Just those like magic moments what I

42:11

mean. Just those like I also think where

42:13

I quote I like is quote I like is like,

42:16

can't just wait at the bus stop. have

42:18

to run for the bus. have to So

42:20

I feel like with feel like with it's like. You

42:22

can't just sit back just sit in your at

42:25

all day and be like, day. It's going to

42:27

come to me. You have to be out

42:29

in the world out in doing things. But when things,

42:31

opportunity comes up. like when Ken

42:33

Campbell rings you and says, do you want to

42:35

come to my house for a walk? you go,

42:37

says, do you I do. to And that's very connected

42:39

to for saying yes to things, yes to experiences

42:41

and being like, I'm going to to that because

42:43

that will lead. yes, to to something else and

42:45

something else. So that's what I mean by to things,

42:47

I think to things, definitely get weird moments in your

42:49

life where you're like, God, if I hadn't I that,

42:51

if I hadn't said yes to that, I wouldn't

42:53

have met that person. Like wouldn't like, that I

42:56

if I just that night I'm too tired, I

42:58

I that don't wanna go, to go Jane Austin

43:00

what the hell? what the hell I wouldn't

43:02

be in Austin, ostentatious 14 later. so

43:04

I So I think when people Yeah,

43:06

when people give you things. obviously with

43:08

a reason say yes a reason.

43:10

enjoy those but where the enjoy

43:13

those moments lines up for you I of

43:15

lines up for you. I sort of do

43:17

believe that of kind of sometimes. I would say

43:19

it's not often what would say it's not you

43:21

always what you want. That's people. That

43:23

problem they something else. else. And like for many years,

43:25

I wanted to be an to actor doing

43:27

Shakespeare and that door was not opening. door And

43:29

then when I opened the comedy door, it

43:31

flew open and people like dragged me in.

43:33

And I think again, like dragged me in. is that

43:35

I think or is that me being like, is

43:37

think I, I think I'm better at this. that

43:39

me being like had to give up on something

43:42

that I believed in very strongly. had to So

43:44

I think, yeah, I when someone, when those moments

43:46

appear, So them. yeah when I think

43:48

that plays into appear grab them. I

43:50

words. My philosophy is words. it's

43:52

not right place, right time, which

43:54

is what everyone says. It's

43:56

wrong place, right time. Put

43:58

yourself yourself in places that you shouldn't

44:00

really be in in and bring

44:02

yourself to the party and

44:04

magical things can happen because because

44:06

if you're there the at the the

44:09

time, you're going to

44:11

meet that person meet that person

44:13

Campbell Campbell or like an ostentatious shows you, you

44:15

and shows sounds like it's the leading

44:17

word, but it it it that you go, go, oh,

44:19

I could be doing something way more

44:21

interesting than if I was in the right

44:23

place, as in the projected idea of what

44:25

I had for my future. of You're always

44:28

going to get a right time if

44:30

you're in the right place, and the right

44:32

to get manufacturing that. Go wrong places. right And

44:34

what I love about the right places you feel

44:36

like an exciting, Go wrong you know, two words

44:38

just to have tattooed on you at

44:40

all feel you know, to remind you. In

44:42

life, it's not about just saying have tattooed on you

44:45

so important. you know, just to remind you in life.

44:47

in there. Like, do you want to come

44:49

and walk some dogs at my

44:51

place? Yes, and And while I'm there,

44:53

we can, you know, like, whatever. It's

44:55

Yes, it's very cool, I'm I've never

44:57

heard that as a thing before. like, whatever.

44:59

It's like a, think lots of cool, feel like

45:01

that like you learn it in improv and

45:03

it's how you teach thing and it's how

45:05

yes, and of and but lots of I say

45:07

it changes their life Like once you discover

45:10

that and you start applying it Pippa

45:12

Evans wrote a brilliant book called Like life

45:14

Which is basically of like how do you

45:16

take this kind of really? learn it. powerful strong yes and

45:18

and apply it to other things because you

45:20

can you can Tina Faye about it as well

45:22

it it's it's contagious once you are in

45:24

that are in that mindset It opens a lot

45:26

lot of doors. if I hadn't gone to

45:28

ostentatious, I wouldn't have met have met And if

45:30

I hadn't met Andrew Hunter Murray, I wouldn't

45:33

have been able to I you have been able to like

45:35

email you you would have had started that you it

45:37

was going pretty well at that time. So

45:39

you were kind of like that time. to ask

45:41

a question. of So I was like, oh,

45:43

I'm gonna ask a question about about And then

45:45

you were like, yes, you should do that. yes,

45:47

like, do he's right. I like, put an email.

45:50

I And so then I put the four

45:52

episodes out. And then when they went out, people's

45:54

hundreds of people people's like because you because you

45:56

have an email. me to have an thing of

45:58

that thing of like like you said, kind of just

46:00

being open to these things. And obviously

46:02

there's another side to that where you

46:04

say yes to everything and you have

46:06

burnout and I've lived that and you

46:08

can come through that as well. But

46:10

I still think it's it's better than

46:12

where I was when yeah you know

46:14

when you're very scared and you're saying

46:16

no or you you know you worry

46:18

about failing and all of that normal

46:20

normal stuff but to just be like

46:23

yeah you know what I am going

46:25

to go. get the tube for an

46:27

hour and a half get picked up

46:29

by Ken Campbell sit in his car

46:31

and have a chat and and meet

46:33

those other people that I've worked with

46:35

him and yeah it's it sounds it

46:37

sounds a bit annoying when you've done

46:39

it didn't really like what I did

46:41

this very easy and it's like it

46:43

isn't is like you said wrong place

46:45

right time yeah exactly like that I

46:47

actually was gonna go I actually was

46:49

gonna go I don't know why I

46:51

just through all my reading of Ken

46:53

Campbell I was gonna go to visit

46:55

his grave. Oh, wow. And just sit

46:57

there for a bit, because he's in

46:59

Epping Forest. Yeah, that's, yeah. And he's

47:01

got that, it's like an outline of

47:04

his head is his headstone out in

47:06

the forest. And I planned it the

47:08

whole day. And the only reason that

47:10

I didn't go is because for some

47:12

reason, I looked, I'd clocked what the

47:14

date was, and it was January 23rd.

47:16

And as part of... Ken's weird world

47:18

and love of things like Robert Anton

47:20

Wilson and counterculture, the number 23 is

47:22

a very important number to all these

47:24

people. It's a number that recurs everywhere.

47:26

And so if you see 23, it's

47:28

part of it is part of the

47:30

universe telling you something. And I saw

47:32

that, I went, oh no, that's too

47:34

try hard. No, I can't, I can't,

47:36

I can't. I had to pull out.

47:38

It just felt like no one would

47:40

believe that I had actually good intentions.

47:43

It was like, yeah, you went on

47:45

the 23rd day of the year. And

47:47

it's like weird happened? Yeah, right then.

47:49

Yeah, cool, mate. Nice try. Pull the

47:51

other, bud. So

48:13

have you had you had grand synchronistic

48:15

moments that aren't retrospective? Have you

48:18

had moments where your gut has

48:20

been changed I an opinion because, walked

48:22

I don't know, someone walked past

48:24

with a t -shirt that said a

48:26

word on it I corresponded? like that.

48:28

I haven't had stuff like that. I just

48:30

have a really strong sense of instinct

48:32

and I've always had that and I've always

48:34

had a really strong, scaredy cat. quite a scared,

48:36

so I'm quite scared. I'm very anxious

48:38

person, but I've always had this this like... this

48:40

voice that goes, you should do that. that

48:42

definitely like, I remember like we I like

48:44

discovering with at university and

48:47

then I did this

48:49

course at university and then I did They're

48:51

like, how did I even? how did I

48:53

even I can't I can't remember how I how I met

48:56

I can't remember how I met Adam I met but that's how

48:58

I met Ken. show And then we did the first time at

49:00

They were like, do you want to do this 50 did

49:02

show? And I was like, improv, they do you want to

49:04

do the whole thing? Yes, to I'll do the whole thing.

49:06

And then I met all these Canadians who like, do you

49:08

want to come to Canada and do the 53 hour?

49:10

And I had this like. thing? Yes, I'll have this

49:12

feeling thing. it's like, then I to do

49:14

that. Like I get this really strong

49:16

want to just tend to listen to

49:19

that do I get this very strong this

49:21

very strong loud. everything, do

49:23

that. that. And that's what I

49:25

had improv, with ostentatious, with with the

49:28

with the podcast. pregnant with when You know, I

49:30

was pregnant for the first I did had loads of

49:32

the first time. of I had loads

49:34

of deadlines, loads of people were asking

49:36

for things. thing that the only thing that

49:38

wouldn't... ignore was couldn't ignore was The voice kept

49:40

kept saying, the the podcast, do the like,

49:42

I was like, but I'm not getting paid

49:44

for it. someone wants like a one

49:46

pager of a document for of a document for the

49:48

podcast. was like, do the So I was like, okay. Yeah

49:50

I just have a really strong sense

49:52

of what of what things that I should I listen to it,

49:54

that's all. I just listen to it

49:56

and I think, it and I think okay sure I don't

49:59

I even know all the logic will be like, be but

50:01

you shouldn't do that. If the voice is like,

50:03

need to do that. I'm like, you need to do that. I'm

50:05

that's quite helpful to just, quite and I think

50:07

that comes from being brought up as a child

50:09

of weird. comes you don't go,

50:11

bought well, as a child of weird, that all the reasons

50:13

why don't mind ignoring no, quite a lot of

50:15

the the So I'm like, well, fuck it. I

50:17

Who cares? Logic doesn't always solve

50:19

your problems. a lot of the time. So I'm gets

50:21

in the way of fun Who

50:23

well, which is something we do

50:25

slightly to get your problems. Yeah, and quickly

50:27

ask the gets in the 50 hour. So I I

50:29

hadn't heard of this one. know that Ken

50:32

was famous for incredibly long plays. Yeah,

50:34

he did plays. Yeah, he did the warp, his 25 plays. So,

50:36

he went to Canada. think he was

50:38

touring his show. he He went to

50:40

Edmonton and he saw these improvisers

50:42

and they were he saw these hours straight. they

50:44

were And they were doing that 53 hours

50:46

raise money for raise money for know, like

50:48

a kind of charity event, you know,

50:50

long can we keep going? He

50:52

came back to London and he told

50:54

everyone, which is not true, to he said. and

50:56

he told everyone, which is said, true.

50:58

They improvised 55, 53 hours. hours. they the

51:00

reason they do this can

51:02

can go through, they go through

51:04

the warp because like at hour like 25

51:06

you go through the you go through the

51:08

you're you're so tired your your lizard

51:11

brain takes over. like your brain becomes

51:13

in charge because you can't you

51:15

anything. And that's when you get

51:17

pure improv. you get pure So Wow. So

51:19

said, we need to do this

51:21

50 hour show. 50 hour show. And he he

51:23

had this gang of people of of been

51:25

doing the Shakespeare Shakespeare and the ventriloquism, ventriloquism with him.

51:28

him. So it's Adam and Sean McCann. And I think, I And

51:30

I think Adam via just must have known Adam

51:32

at time There wasn't a lot of girls

51:34

at that time doing it. And gonna said

51:36

to me, do you want to, we're going

51:38

to do this in do you we're going

51:40

to do 50 hours, do you want to

51:42

do the whole thing? Friday sure. finish on we

51:44

start we Friday night, we finish on Sunday,

51:46

nobody sleeps. on Sunday, And And you're

51:48

on how are you on stage you on stage

51:50

the whole time? food and toilet breaks. toilet

51:52

have a you have a director say say it's

51:54

like watching a book set. So like every episode episode

51:56

is hour an hour a a bit and

51:58

then there's a 10 minute break. break. and there's

52:00

a director being like, oh, Dan and Kariyad

52:02

head to the casino to find out where

52:04

the missing roulette wheel has gone, and then

52:06

we would then do the scene. So there's

52:08

a director who's also not sleeping, he's kind

52:11

of like. pitching and at the start of

52:13

every episode you do a hot 30 where

52:15

you come out for 30 seconds to the

52:17

audience and you're like I may says hi

52:19

I'm the greatest car player that's ever been

52:21

existed and also I've just had a lobotomy

52:23

or whatever some stupid thing about your character

52:25

and everyone does their hot 30 and then

52:27

you do the scenes and then the Canadians

52:30

Ken bought some of the Canadians over So

52:32

they came over and I met Kurtz Meaton

52:34

for the first time who now writes Children

52:36

ruin everything which is an incredible Canadian sitcom

52:38

which is so funny you should watch it.

52:40

It's really good if you have kids. And

52:42

yeah these amazing Canadians came over who were

52:44

like the best improvisers I've ever seen in

52:46

my life. And they said to us, oh

52:48

we don't do the whole 53 hours. Like

52:51

that's mad. What? I mean, some of some

52:53

people have started doing it because they kind

52:55

of, you know, like, like a marathon, you

52:57

know, but most of us don't do it.

52:59

No, no, so we do six hours, we

53:01

go home, we have a shower, but I

53:03

think Ken liked a good narrative, you know,

53:05

so it was like, this is the narrative

53:07

of what we're doing. And you do, you

53:10

get to a point of madness, you get

53:12

to a point of madness. And I did

53:14

you hit the warp. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

53:16

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

53:18

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

53:20

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

53:22

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

53:24

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

53:26

yeah. Okay, can you remember anything from those

53:28

hours? So the first time it happened, the

53:31

first 50 hours I did, Kurt Smitten was

53:33

on the stage and he ripped the fourth

53:35

wall. He was in a scene and this

53:37

must have been like Sunday mornings. You've gone

53:39

through Friday night and Saturday night's fine. Everyone

53:41

can do one night fine, no problem. Saturday

53:43

you pick up because the sun comes up

53:45

to your body like its day. Saturday night,

53:47

you've got the adrenaline of Saturday night. The

53:50

late hours of Saturday morning. you know, Saturday

53:52

night and Sunday morning is where the walk

53:54

happens because your body is like, why aren't

53:56

we sleeping? What? is, mean,

53:58

you know, it's a

54:00

form of torture So

54:03

it's Sunday morning, Kurtz on stage, he's

54:05

doing a scene, something happened and

54:07

he physically ripped the fourth wall. He

54:09

like ripped it, stepped through it

54:12

and went and spoke to the audience

54:14

about what they thought was happening.

54:16

And I was watching and I was

54:18

like, what? He exists

54:20

on stage and off

54:22

stage. therefore, nothing is

54:25

real. Nothing is real. Like,

54:27

I feel like, you know, when people heard the white album,

54:29

like, brain just went. You Anything's

54:32

possible and nothing is real and we all

54:34

just made up. Like, is made up. Everything

54:36

is just whatever you say it is. And

54:38

Kurt, I always say to him like, you

54:40

broke my brain. You broke my

54:42

brain Because that for me, I then was

54:44

like, improv can do anything. It can

54:46

do anything. Nothing is, this is the most

54:48

powerful thing. Hey, I'm my father's daughter. And

54:50

I was like, oh my God, he's my

54:52

leader. And then I went to Canada. when

54:55

I did the 53 hour show. The

54:58

reason we do 50 is because they started it, they

55:00

invented it, so we don't want to do more. They

55:03

still have the most hours they've got the rec - to be

55:05

respectful yeah, it was their idea. I

55:07

went to Canada as Canadian

55:09

improviser there and he came on

55:12

stage as David Bowie from

55:14

the Labyrinth. So Prince Jareth,

55:16

I think the official name. That's

55:18

a very significant person in my life. David Bowie

55:20

is like one of my, I

55:23

have weird, weird things about

55:25

that. like, he... We'll We'll get on to

55:27

that because he's my guy as well. Yeah.

55:29

So my David Bowie poster is still over

55:31

there. so he was playing, that's how

55:33

I met really David Bowie was in

55:35

Labyrinth. You know, that's like my first introduction

55:37

to him. dad was a massive Bowie

55:39

He was dressed like him, he had

55:41

a wig like him. I was playing that,

55:44

I can't remember was playing, some English

55:46

girl in this Canadian one. And our

55:48

characters got together and sort of got married.

55:50

And They called us all on

55:52

stage and that everyone had to say what

55:54

they really believe. And I was with Paul

55:56

Foxcroft, my improv husband, and Paul had put

55:58

apples up his sleeve. to

56:00

be a like a superhero, to be like

56:02

muscles. And he had to admit that

56:05

he didn't know what his arms looked like

56:07

anymore. Like he wasn't sure. Even though

56:09

he knew he'd put apples there, he was

56:11

like. I I think

56:13

I am Aquaman or something. And I

56:15

had to admit that I really

56:17

thought, I really thought I'd married David

56:19

Bowie Dan. And I was genuinely

56:21

thought I was gonna go to go

56:23

home and tell my boyfriend. that

56:27

I'm leaving you, but come on. It's

56:29

for David Bowie. I really thought that

56:31

we were gonna be in the papers.

56:33

I was like, he's leaving a for

56:35

me. This is mad, she's so

56:37

beautiful, but but that's I'm gonna get like, this

56:39

is gonna be global. this

56:42

is huge, but it's happening. And

56:44

I love him. And he loves me. And

56:47

this is this is real. What can we

56:49

do? We're in love. We're in love. And

56:51

I honestly couldn't grasp that he wasn't David

56:53

Bowie. Like I just couldn't. He is even

56:55

in my head. I can't even say the

56:57

real man's name out loud. And we had

56:59

a very on afterwards, we had a really

57:01

weird thing where, which happens in impotentons because

57:03

you've improvised with somebody so long, you really

57:05

treat them like an ex, you feel like

57:07

you went out with them. And

57:10

it feels like when you see them,

57:12

you're like, oh, hi, how are you?

57:14

How's, how's things? Cause you're like, we

57:16

used to go out and you didn't,

57:18

you were just on stage with them.

57:20

The 53 out, like absolute insanity. Wow.

57:23

Perfect. That's, yeah, God, you

57:25

hit the warp twice. Yeah,

57:27

twice. And that's why I don't do it cause

57:29

I'm not someone who can take it repeatedly. like

57:31

it's a lot. Yeah.

57:33

So, okay, so Bowie big in both

57:35

our lives, I guess. first ever gig

57:38

I went to in theory was a

57:40

Bowie gig. My mom was pregnant with

57:42

me at the time. was in Hong

57:44

Kong. he's been, yeah, he's been the

57:46

guy for us my whole life. I

57:48

mean, that was a relative dying that

57:50

morning. when he passed away. My woke

57:52

me up and was like, I need

57:54

to tell you something like, really

57:57

like as if a family member had

57:59

died. And also what happens, we

58:01

what happens, we talked about this a

58:03

lot on cast, when When you lose

58:05

a parent, often someone in the someone in

58:07

the public who becomes your because either they remind

58:09

you of that person, they remind you of that

58:11

person they look a bit like that person and

58:13

there's some part of you quite quite like sort

58:15

of happy they're still alive and I had like had

58:17

like transferred Barry, so in in my head he was

58:19

my dad so it's it's like well my dad's dead

58:22

but but. David Bower still there. there. So

58:24

I've still got this person kind of

58:26

looking over me looking over doing doing okay. I I

58:28

was talking to Marco Sullivan who's comedian who

58:30

did who did Lee and Dean he did the same

58:32

thing with his dad with Terry with Terry

58:34

Wogan And when Terry Wogan died, he was

58:36

bawling his eyes out and everyone was

58:38

a bit confused because they were like,

58:40

oh, it's just Terry were like oh it's just Terry Wogan

58:42

like my dad, he was Irish my dad

58:44

who's kind of had transferred. had transferred. It's very

58:46

common thing. And that's what I did with David

58:48

Bowie. So I used to have t -shirts and

58:50

badges and all sorts of things. And I felt

58:52

like if I still here, my have still here. and David

58:54

died, I was like, of things and I felt

58:56

like And I was, I

58:58

was my I mean, obviously, you know, then you

59:00

also remember he's not your dad and you have

59:02

survived oh, dad, your actual dad. like, I was okay.

59:04

yeah. I'd probably be all right, but

59:06

know, then you know, the joke that the

59:08

world went to shit after he died, I

59:10

still can't get my head past that,

59:13

that actual dad died. Yeah. Things were good, and

59:15

then David David was the

59:17

moment, the moment. Exactly. So

59:39

look we've we've got a bunch, I'm I'm

59:41

trying to think of what the of

59:44

would be for you on here, be superstitions

59:46

you've been mentioning a lot. you've been yeah.

59:48

a do they go beyond the obvious

59:50

ones? the you know, knocking you know knocking on I

59:52

Yeah I just I think it's sort of a

59:54

form of OCD form of OCD right I I

59:56

really am very very superstitious and that

59:58

comes from my from my granny who was East granny,

1:00:00

and then gave it to my mom. now I'm

1:00:02

really trying not to pass it on, but my

1:00:04

children actually go, mommy, mommy, there's two magpies, do

1:00:07

you want to see them? I go, are you

1:00:09

sure they're both there? I'm not looking, in case

1:00:11

one's gone. they both there? I mean, what the

1:00:13

hell? Absolutely mental. But yeah, I just - Is passed

1:00:15

down, by the way. Was your grandmother into all

1:00:17

this stuff as well? and on close sides? No,

1:00:19

is for my mum's mum, who's the

1:00:21

East End one, who is very very

1:00:23

religious. and you won't know this reference,

1:00:25

but if anyone watches East Enders, she

1:00:27

was basically.from East Enders. Oh, yeah, know

1:00:30

don't you? Okay, So that's exactly was

1:00:32

my grandmother, like a very like cockney.

1:00:35

And, and it's quite, and she was, she

1:00:37

just, she thought if you said the word bloody,

1:00:40

that was swearing. know, like, like, oh God,

1:00:42

like, never, she'd say, lorks, oh lorks, because Lord,

1:00:44

you wouldn't take the Lord's name in vain.

1:00:46

So I don't wish she had all these weird

1:00:48

superstitions, because that's actually quite sort of like. you

1:00:51

know, bit pagan -y, but that's the East

1:00:53

for you. So yeah, I've inherited loads of

1:00:55

weird superstitions. Don't have an umbrella up

1:00:57

above your head in the house. Black cat

1:00:59

crossing your path is good luck. Don't

1:01:01

walk over three drains. That's an 80s child

1:01:03

thing that happened in England. Finella does

1:01:05

that. Yeah, Yes, it's really 80s. I don't

1:01:07

know why or where it came from,

1:01:09

but three drains are bad luck. And I

1:01:12

just do loads of stupid shit like

1:01:14

that. And yeah, the touching word is absolutely.

1:01:16

terrible. But But I would say it happened after

1:01:18

lots of people died. That's when I definitely believed

1:01:20

that maybe I could have some control over as a

1:01:22

teenager. teenager. was I like, maybe if I if touch wood,

1:01:24

the people won't die. And then you get into

1:01:26

the, well, I've got touch wood for all the people.

1:01:28

And what if I forget that person? And yeah,

1:01:30

that's when you head to OCD. So I try and

1:01:32

keep them like What's days. what do you mean?

1:01:34

What do you mean touching wood for every person? Cause usually

1:01:36

you touch wood when you say a sentence like, oh,

1:01:38

would you be like, oh, I hope someone doesn't die. I

1:01:40

hope they don't touch wood. Yeah, exactly. So you're

1:01:42

like, oh, hopefully they'll be all right.

1:01:45

But also hopefully they'll be all right

1:01:47

tomorrow. hopefully they'll be all right the

1:01:49

next day. also when they're going on

1:01:51

holiday, like, like, because if you believe

1:01:53

it works, you need to constantly do

1:01:55

it. So it's a really slippery slope.

1:01:57

Yes. But yeah, they're probably normal superstitions

1:01:59

just normal, average, pagan -y

1:02:01

kind of English superstitions that yeah those are

1:02:03

those are the classic ones. do you have it with it

1:02:05

would work Do you have it with it with with the theater like

1:02:08

you go on go on stage you need to make sure

1:02:10

you don't? don't No, I I just have like their Like

1:02:12

I said, things that I like, I think

1:02:14

we have to do. If we don't do them,

1:02:16

I would feel quite anxious. do them I would

1:02:18

never say like the Scottish play, and I would

1:02:20

never say that like the I'm not in a theater,

1:02:22

play I I wouldn't say say that like well, I just

1:02:24

feel like that one's really say I wouldn't say Macbeth ruin

1:02:26

your performance, if you one's We did easy last

1:02:28

night and someone said it and I thought oh well

1:02:30

now it's going to be a bad said Macbeth. So we

1:02:32

did us You've upset the theater gods.

1:02:34

and someone this and I oh now it's gonna be bad. I

1:02:36

I think child weird, you just you just have

1:02:38

a belief that there's a completely alternative

1:02:40

way of there be, they might hear, might be spirits,

1:02:42

So there might be, thing, like might hear,

1:02:44

they might be my dad, I will always, I would never like,

1:02:47

not the thing thank that stuff happens with my

1:02:49

dad, show I will always Like, you never want to be

1:02:51

like, oh, thank you But also the fates can feel

1:02:53

you have to show can hear and the fates can hear. Just do your

1:02:55

fates can hear, just do your you know, want to be rude.

1:02:57

your I feel like do your case the gods can

1:02:59

fates can the do can hear. hear, just do your do your

1:03:01

best, be polite. fates can hear, just your fates can hear, just do

1:03:03

your fates that's not on the list, can hear,

1:03:05

just do your I have a have a distant

1:03:07

memory of a couple of our

1:03:09

that that that's something that in. Oh,

1:03:11

a mean of, you some

1:03:14

derogatory comment derogatory comment that believe in

1:03:16

think it was think it was more,

1:03:18

Sarah. I do like crystal, but I'm not, I

1:03:20

don't know enough about them, but I just look.

1:03:22

them, but just on my desk. I believe

1:03:24

in the power of in the power of you

1:03:26

know? Like... you know, that mean something

1:03:28

to you, but I also have a planar

1:03:30

bill unicorn. Like, I don't think they

1:03:32

have to be, they you provide your own

1:03:34

magic, do you know mean? And I also

1:03:36

have on my desk. you know what I

1:03:38

mean? And keep me safe. on

1:03:41

my desk, moom and mama, I believe in

1:03:43

crystals. I do believe it. I've just

1:03:45

I Tarot this year. Tarot I do believe

1:03:47

it. I've in my life again since I

1:03:49

was a teenager. this year. a bit of

1:03:51

a moment I think suddenly appeared in my life

1:03:53

it used to be this really embarrassing

1:03:56

thing that teenage girls did And now it's

1:03:58

like, now it's like, sure, You're like. I like

1:04:00

improv, like, I remember when I was

1:04:02

bullied for this, and now everyone's cool

1:04:04

with it. Oh, okay. It's so confusing.

1:04:06

Yeah, I love a bit of Tarrow.

1:04:08

I met a brilliant writer called Susan

1:04:10

Cahill, who on a writer's retreat, and

1:04:12

she did, um, does Tarrow, and then

1:04:15

she bought me a pack, and I

1:04:17

was just, I just love it. But

1:04:19

again, my parents were into Iching, like,

1:04:21

like, this is. it was never like

1:04:23

this is the truth it was like

1:04:25

let's do that's let's do the idea

1:04:27

see how we feel and then if

1:04:29

you don't like the answer you were

1:04:31

like well I wasn't my helpful today

1:04:33

so I don't think like with tarrow

1:04:36

I go to it a lot for

1:04:38

like decisions and then sometimes it's helpful

1:04:40

because it just shows you what you're

1:04:42

thinking anyway you know but I equally

1:04:44

wouldn't like you know I wouldn't buy

1:04:46

a house because the Taros told me

1:04:48

to. I would also like speak to

1:04:50

a mortgage broker. Yeah, but no, I

1:04:52

think that was for me the revelation

1:04:54

about Taro was it is as rational

1:04:56

as it is anyone can use it

1:04:59

for woo-woo purposes. I think possibly that's

1:05:01

what a lot of people are noticing

1:05:03

about it at the moment, hence the

1:05:05

resurgence. They're realizing, oh, it's not about...

1:05:07

you know, a psychic world and all

1:05:09

that sort of stuff. Yeah, or a

1:05:11

tall, handsome stranger coming into your life.

1:05:13

And, you know, I go to therapy

1:05:15

as well, like, I go, like, I'm,

1:05:17

I may, I'm someone who's like, do

1:05:19

anything, like try anything, because you just

1:05:22

never know. And, and I know, it

1:05:24

depends on you, you know, what you

1:05:26

bring to it, like, you have to

1:05:28

bring yourself to the party. And I

1:05:30

think with woo-woo-woo things, if you bring

1:05:32

an attitude of like, Oh, well, maybe.

1:05:34

Then, like you said, it can be

1:05:36

helpful. But yeah, I love Tarro. I

1:05:38

love someone bought me Jane Austen Tarro.

1:05:40

So Jane Austen Tarro cards that I

1:05:42

keep by my desk, which are really

1:05:45

beautiful at all the different characters. And

1:05:47

like, so when it's like something's going

1:05:49

wrong, instead of like the tower in

1:05:51

Tarro, it's like the carbon limous where

1:05:53

Louisa falls from in persuasions. It's just,

1:05:55

yeah. It's really, beautiful. beautiful.

1:05:57

oh, they look great.

1:05:59

Do you do

1:06:01

it daily look is

1:06:03

it? Just do it daily then or is it often if

1:06:05

I'm writing, Yeah, that's why things are on

1:06:07

my desk stuck and stuck with the story writing,

1:06:09

it's why trying to write, but you're thinking

1:06:12

about something else because something's bothering you or

1:06:14

something's happening, you know, personally, and you're

1:06:16

like, oh, you're trying to not feeling great today,

1:06:18

but thinking see how you feel, see what

1:06:20

the vibe is. And then sometimes I look

1:06:22

at it and I think, well, that

1:06:24

wasn't very helpful. about something you've had 10 minutes

1:06:26

of writing and then you go back

1:06:28

to writing, you're like, like, oh, okay. So I just, yeah,

1:06:30

like I've got books at my got books

1:06:32

at my desk that I pick up.

1:06:34

I've got Jane Austen here permanently, kids

1:06:36

books, I love sometimes if you're stuck, you're just gonna

1:06:38

read a page of Diana a page of

1:06:41

just to Jones me what make, remind magical

1:06:43

storytelling is or storytelling is or like the I'm

1:06:45

such a I just, I'm such a magpie, but

1:06:47

not. Not a bad luck luck here. Good

1:06:49

luck a good luck magpie. Well, no, that's to your final

1:06:51

few things in a second, but one

1:06:53

of the things I do want to

1:06:55

touch on in this is quite relevant to

1:06:57

you having objects around you I do they

1:06:59

have power because this making them have power,

1:07:01

but you have tick cursed objects around you

1:07:03

that Do you think that there are

1:07:05

items that have negative energy that you

1:07:07

can't be near as well as things

1:07:10

giving you good stuff? ticked I do, but I

1:07:12

think it's entirely what your belief is if you

1:07:14

believe they're negative. they've become. So,

1:07:16

you know, know, there's a ring in my

1:07:18

family that my great -grandmother refused to pass

1:07:20

on because her husband died young on she

1:07:22

always said it was cursed. And then my

1:07:24

mom was like, well, she know. said it was husband

1:07:26

died anyway my wasn't wearing like, I could have

1:07:28

had it my husband died I do think that I

1:07:30

am a believer of energy I could I do

1:07:32

think that if you like, you know, I've

1:07:35

got all these rocks from beaches We've been

1:07:37

to and stuff and it's like if you

1:07:39

give something energy you know, I've got all these

1:07:41

rocks it beaches hold good energy.

1:07:43

And I think that's like, you know, I

1:07:45

remember I remember being a kid at school

1:07:47

and learning can't can't kill energy, it just gets

1:07:49

transferred, like like, you know, kinetic energy becomes

1:07:51

wherever the other the other words, how energy works, it

1:07:54

just moves from a different thing. thing, and they were

1:07:56

were explaining, like, why water boils? and And

1:07:58

I just, I I remember thinking, wow. wow. Okay. so

1:08:00

everything has it. So So it just moves

1:08:02

to different things. And if you give something,

1:08:04

if you in, you know, like like you

1:08:06

said, and buy a bit with love and

1:08:08

hold it, and that's the thing. When I

1:08:10

had to do the audio for You Were

1:08:13

Not Alone, that's one of the worst experiences

1:08:15

of my life. was really, really, really hard

1:08:17

because I had to read, like memoir stuff

1:08:19

about what happened to my family. And I

1:08:21

still got it. My daughter gave me a

1:08:23

conquer. She didn't know that I was going to

1:08:25

do little bit, but she just like gave me

1:08:27

this conquer and it's got like a good ridge

1:08:29

in it, like you can put your thumb in.

1:08:31

And I just held that conquer the entire time

1:08:33

I had to read this audio book, which obviously

1:08:35

it's like, you're going back to like being a

1:08:37

teenager, remembering like being told someone has cancer, like

1:08:39

watching them die, like, oh, this really traumatic stuff.

1:08:42

And I just held this conquer. And

1:08:44

afterwards, part of me wanted to throw it

1:08:46

away Cause I was like, oh, it's like

1:08:48

all this negative energy. And I was like,

1:08:50

no, it doesn't mean it doesn't have your

1:08:52

negative energy. It gave you strength, like the

1:08:54

power of a thing that is not a

1:08:56

tree. like I've gone full woo woo. Like

1:08:59

there's something really powerful that's something that. this is

1:09:01

designed to grow into something really big and strong. And

1:09:03

I was able to hold it while I was

1:09:05

feeling really wobbly. Like, Like I just think.

1:09:08

that to me is magic. So That's why I

1:09:10

need my magic, like stuff like it doesn't have

1:09:12

to be you know lights and huge

1:09:14

things Or think like the everydayness is

1:09:16

what we people miss and especially with

1:09:18

things like grief people don't. You

1:09:20

know, they want them to appear in front

1:09:22

of them and give these huge signs was actually.

1:09:24

the love they leave is often. pretty

1:09:27

loud if you can hear it. Yeah. Oh,

1:09:29

a good line. That's a good line. Write that

1:09:31

down. went a bit Beatles, didn't I? went a bit

1:09:34

Beatles. I love you, Lee. I

1:09:36

could hear it. Yeah.

1:09:39

Yeah, that's so cool. That's that's great. And

1:09:41

then the fact it was given to you

1:09:43

by your daughter sort of unknowingly as well.

1:09:45

It's a real yeah, a of lot of

1:09:47

symbols in there that can help. Yeah,

1:09:49

I definitely believe in narrative and

1:09:51

symbols and metaphors and you know the

1:09:54

powers of power of stories That's, yeah,

1:09:57

those are, that is real. We know that. You can

1:09:59

be changed by books. can by stories. stories

1:10:01

and you can be You can be

1:10:03

changed by people. things with you. things with

1:10:05

you like that. Yeah, I just think

1:10:07

that magic enough, isn't it? it? No, That's very

1:10:09

cool. Let's get on to your

1:10:11

soft your soft rock. So from coast rocks and inspirational rocks. Soft

1:10:14

rock, This is the thing that that I

1:10:16

have, which is a weird thing

1:10:18

that's happened to you in your life,

1:10:20

that you can't explain that one will

1:10:22

believe that you believe even fully believe,

1:10:24

but you can't deny that it

1:10:26

happened. Have you had one of those

1:10:29

it super odd experiences? one of those just

1:10:31

I think, like I said, all the stuff with

1:10:33

my dad, I think strange all of things that have

1:10:35

happened. my dad like the strange sort of

1:10:37

things that's one other thing. There's one other

1:10:39

know if I believe in

1:10:41

ghosts, if I I don't know, in ghosts.

1:10:43

I don't know, I don't know because I have

1:10:45

felt have felt presences job I've done.

1:10:47

the job I've done. And I And I remember after

1:10:49

he died, so he worked from home. home. and

1:10:51

and his office was next to my parents'

1:10:53

bedroom, and and I was sleeping in my parents'

1:10:56

bedroom. And both me and and my mum would work

1:10:58

up and we could hear hear him at his

1:11:00

computer. We could hear the keyboard going. going.

1:11:02

And like, both of us heard both of us

1:11:04

heard it. like, And both of us were

1:11:06

just like, he is, he's still working. Of course,

1:11:08

he so it's like, he's So it's like, he's

1:11:10

obviously trying to finish things, like, get stuff done. So

1:11:12

stuff done. So that's something that's like, I

1:11:15

can't explain to you, but I to you, but

1:11:17

I I heard it. it. and and stuff

1:11:19

like that. thing the other thing that's happened

1:11:21

to me is I have had really vivid

1:11:23

dreams. but not I would dream something dream

1:11:25

something and nothing makes sense. to talking to

1:11:27

someone I don't I'm I'm in a place I

1:11:29

don't recognize. something someone's explaining to me that makes

1:11:31

no sense. no And I would wake up and

1:11:33

think, that's weird and I wouldn't know what

1:11:35

to do with it. And then like, I'm

1:11:37

not joking like years later, 12 years later, I

1:11:39

would be somewhere and I'd be like. I would

1:11:42

be somewhere This is what I dreamt. This

1:11:44

is the person. is what I dreamt. I like say I dreamt dreamt

1:11:46

you, but I was meet you and I'm like oh but I then

1:11:48

I meet you and I'm like, Schreiber but I

1:11:50

didn't know who Dan was a was. So when

1:11:52

there was a man talking to me about what I

1:11:54

started doing And then what I started doing, cause

1:11:56

it kept happening is I started telling my then

1:11:58

boyfriend to pay my husband. because I was like, I

1:12:00

needs to know. So I would say, look, I had this

1:12:02

dream. to know, so I were in this room

1:12:04

it was I had they were talking about

1:12:06

this thing this then this person said this

1:12:08

and they were talking to me and they said

1:12:11

don't you think that isn't like don't

1:12:13

you think this, and like it was never

1:12:15

that specific to me, then what's so good

1:12:17

because my husband is very think, it all

1:12:19

and we would be somewhere and it

1:12:21

would happen and he would just look

1:12:23

at me like specific. And then what's so good, I

1:12:25

was like my husband is is not Wu

1:12:27

Wu, this stuff. It's really nice to

1:12:29

have someone who's very cynical, be like. be

1:12:31

like, didn't you? you, but you said you were

1:12:34

gonna, but just, you're like, like, yeah, what

1:12:36

do we What do we do about

1:12:38

it? it? That fascinating. I've got night's

1:12:40

no use, but but completely useless. And he would,

1:12:42

and he would, if he, if he suddenly he would

1:12:44

if he he he suddenly jumped on

1:12:46

Mike here, he would be like,

1:12:48

yep, that's absolutely that's fascinating. So what's Well,

1:12:50

that's fascinating. So what's going on there?

1:12:52

You're sort of getting the into the

1:12:54

future into your dreams. your dreams. But how

1:12:56

and why why and why isn't it like it

1:12:59

in in Apple? Like tell people COVID's coming like it's never, coming.

1:13:01

Like, it's never, again, do you know what, that's why I do

1:13:03

you know what? That's why I believe

1:13:05

it, cause it's not useful. It's It's exactly

1:13:07

the same as I'm saying about, like like

1:13:09

a ghost visits you, like, you know, they

1:13:11

don't do, they don't give you information.

1:13:13

That's not how the world works. It's just

1:13:15

such a like, I'll be somewhere. I'll be somewhere

1:13:17

like ostentations a gig somewhere

1:13:19

have a a woman will come up

1:13:22

and be like, like a any like a gig

1:13:24

someone will go, a gig somewhere. How awful! awful

1:13:26

that's what what I'll dream And then

1:13:28

I'll see it and I'll be

1:13:30

like and I'll be like, oh! Why did I need

1:13:32

I need that, body Why did

1:13:34

did I need that? that's

1:13:36

completely useless information. But oh I definitely

1:13:38

have met them before. So

1:13:40

do you have a big list of, or do you have a

1:13:43

big list are there not a big list, but

1:13:45

are there a few that both you and

1:13:47

your husband are aware of that you're still

1:13:49

waiting to? appear? This is the is the problem because

1:13:51

they're so because you because you're dreaming

1:13:53

something that has no basis in reality. So you

1:13:55

So you can't hold on to it.

1:13:57

You're just like, I know what the was.

1:13:59

know was. person, like, because you haven't met them

1:14:01

or been there, you're like, oh, well, we're dream. And

1:14:03

you you forget about it. And it's only

1:14:05

when you're there, you're like, there, you're this. I

1:14:08

dreamt this. I I was here, it doesn't, but

1:14:10

it's so useless. There's nothing you so useless. at the

1:14:12

time, It's like, like, wow, I have nothing you can

1:14:14

do with it. a at the time you're

1:14:16

like, and I have no idea a I

1:14:18

was wearing a And dress and talking to

1:14:20

like Marie re man. And then you to Murray and you're

1:14:22

you're doing an you're doing a. And you're But it

1:14:24

means nothing. you're means nothing. Yeah, no. doing

1:14:27

a. No, No, because what you need is, you need the

1:14:29

moment where you have the where you have see the red

1:14:31

room, you see the guy and then you go. see

1:14:33

the guy, and then you they duck, and right

1:14:35

moment! at the right moment. Yes. it

1:14:37

would be it would be that was. that was, wow,

1:14:39

how, thanks, Brain. Yeah, I don't know don't

1:14:41

know what else to do with it. it. very interesting,

1:14:43

yeah. yeah. Anyway, we should

1:14:45

wrap up. I've got one last question

1:14:47

for you. last This has been so

1:14:49

fantastic. has I had no idea I weird no

1:14:52

I was. How weird you I was. How weird

1:14:54

you were. Such a good masking good someone who's

1:14:56

diagnosed with ADHD last year. I think

1:14:58

I know how to hide in plain

1:15:00

sight. last year. I think I know how to hide in

1:15:02

love to sight. guess, right at the

1:15:04

end to ask guests a suggestion to the

1:15:06

listener to try something out different. to

1:15:08

of the week. Yeah, just something that

1:15:10

will make them maybe experience life in

1:15:12

a, you know, wrong place, right

1:15:15

time in a yes and you know, just something

1:15:17

that gives them a little edge.

1:15:19

What would your suggestion be? your Well, yeah,

1:15:21

I definitely think. yeah I definitely

1:15:23

great thing to live by. But thing to guess

1:15:25

my my griefy hat I would say, if you know if

1:15:27

you know has lost has lost someone, who's had die

1:15:29

to to is to ask them questions about

1:15:31

them. the Because the thing that always happens to

1:15:33

people who are grieving who you get asked

1:15:35

about your grief, how are you, how are

1:15:38

you grief, feeling? And it's really rare for someone

1:15:40

to go, go what was your dad like?

1:15:42

What was his name? And And what's one of

1:15:44

your fun memories of him? was he he like

1:15:46

when you went on holiday or did he

1:15:48

like Christmas? Christmas? Like that's the bit people never

1:15:50

get to talk about. And it's it's funny. We

1:15:52

have like everyone's so interested in ghosts and and

1:15:54

like visitations It's like, people carry their ghosts

1:15:56

with them with the time and you you

1:15:58

could ask them about them. but you're waiting

1:16:00

for an apparition to walk walk through the wall.

1:16:03

I can I can describe this dead person

1:16:05

to you if he's here right now, I had that

1:16:07

power so I think because So I think afraid people

1:16:09

are afraid of upsetting people, they don't ask.

1:16:11

So if you do know someone or

1:16:13

even know your you know, your or your or your

1:16:15

you you know, you have someone that you

1:16:18

don't know that much about them, just ask.

1:16:20

people talking talking about dead people so much.

1:16:22

That's why the grief cost existed. So we were

1:16:24

like, I would love would love to talk about

1:16:26

this dead person. No one asked me they

1:16:28

always so worried so worried that it's like awkward or it's

1:16:30

like, to cry. don't be afraid to just find

1:16:32

out about the person and you will

1:16:35

find out the weirdest things about people if

1:16:37

you ask about the dead dead they know.

1:16:39

know, just yet.