0:00

Exactly how many many subscribers you

0:02

have. 29 .1 million. Forbes said you

0:04

made you made million, the highest highest

0:06

paid year. Yeah. that year. Yeah. Oops said.

0:08

TDM is one of the most T .D .M.

0:10

is one of the most successful

0:13

gaming YouTubers in the world,

0:15

and an emerging mental health advocate

0:17

whose online content has garnered

0:19

over 20 billion views. track would

0:21

track down and find out live. We

0:23

had to We had to move,

0:26

yeah. was like my That was like

0:28

my place to escape, and

0:30

videos and gaming it it got to the worst

0:32

point I wrote down how I felt that

0:34

day and it wasn't good it was just like

0:36

I went out I was just like, out of life of life.

0:40

Dan TD aim is is almost like the person

0:42

I would love to be all the

0:44

time. the time. So it takes over, how how

0:46

do you describe what that is? Mentally,

0:48

it feels like a spiral. There's no

0:50

looking up, being like, I could be

0:52

up here. There's nothing above it. above

0:54

I say I say I want? I want? Yes, absolutely. Like

0:56

Google. Do

0:59

you you position yourself specifically

1:01

as a positive role

1:03

model? As we have broken the

1:05

mold. the We have a chance to

1:07

do to differently in a more authentic way.

1:09

For the person that you're watching for the

1:11

does feel the spiral, how do they

1:13

build up the strength to say, up

1:15

need help? to say, I need help?

1:17

Before we get into it, I just

1:19

wanted we get into it, I just

1:21

wanted to mention something interesting that we've noticed

1:23

recently. Around nine in 10

1:25

of you watching these videos aren't

1:27

subscribed yet. yet. Now, no no

1:30

pressure at all. you're if you're enjoying the

1:32

content, subscribing is a super simple way to

1:34

stay connected with us, and it also helps

1:36

us out a ton with growing the channel.

1:38

the channel. We also look at every

1:40

comment, so make sure you comment

1:42

with your guest ideas below be

1:44

we'll be sure to take and we'll

1:46

we'll try to get your favorite

1:48

guest on future episodes. be be aware

1:51

that this episode covers topics that

1:53

some listeners may find challenging. If

1:55

If you're affected by anything discussed, we've

1:57

we've included links the show notes,

1:59

to organizations and share. that can provide

2:01

support. I appreciate you being

2:03

here. So thanks for watching so let's get

2:05

into it. watching, and let's get

2:07

into it. When we look

2:09

at guests for the pod,

2:12

right, look at guests for

2:14

the I'm reviewing the I'll take a

2:16

look. I'm reviewing the list

2:18

You to this is going, right? Dan

2:20

TDM. Do you know Dan TDM? Do is

2:22

going, Dan TDM? Do you know Dan do

2:24

you know? Do you know Dan TDM? they

2:27

look at me. me. like

2:29

I am the biggest idiot in

2:31

the world. in they said. and

2:33

they that's like me asking

2:36

you. like me Do you know who Michael

2:38

Jackson is? you know who that's

2:40

a crazy comparison is

2:42

that's a crazy comparison but

2:44

how does that feel though yeah

2:47

it it still doesn't feel real

2:49

feel real like I can't even comprehend it.

2:51

It feels like I'm talking about someone else. it

2:53

feels like it's talking

2:55

about someone else Dan

2:58

TDM How did you come you come up

3:00

with this name? What with does it

3:02

mean? it mean? So the TDM TDM is

3:04

short for what the channel used

3:06

to be called, which is the

3:08

Diamond Minecraft, which is literally just two

3:10

Minecraft objects put together. put

3:12

not that deep at all. not that

3:14

deep at all. It's become my second self

3:16

for the last like 12

3:18

years. years. Yeah. And I find it And

3:20

I find it interesting that you

3:22

said your second self. second self. So

3:24

you actually visualize yourself as as

3:26

two people? people? in some some

3:29

ways yes, but also like it

3:31

is me is it's not a not a character

3:33

that I play I'm not I'm not

3:35

acting or like, pretending to be

3:37

anything that I'm not, it's that is

3:39

That is me. It just does feel like

3:41

two two people I feel like real life

3:43

for me like real life for me present

3:45

very differently and differently

3:48

and think differently to Dan

3:50

TDM me quite reserved fairly

3:52

shy, whereas Dan TDM is

3:54

almost like like the

3:56

the person would love to be all the time. the time,

3:58

if If that makes sense. sense. It does. And

4:00

I think we're going I think

4:02

we're going to find a lot of

4:05

places very We're very similar.

4:07

is one area. is one area. my

4:09

two boys and my wife, they two boys

4:11

and my wife, they

4:13

always say that there's... pull at

4:15

work. Okay. Pull at work is there's

4:18

pull at work. Okay. you

4:20

know, work vivacious, is more

4:22

confidently, is you know, is

4:24

more is is more charismatic.

4:27

charismatic, not at

4:29

work, is is introverted. Okay,

4:31

that's Okay, that's interesting, Yeah,

4:33

and and that to find that

4:36

challenging to me, I for

4:38

me, it's challenging two I

4:40

don't want... Yeah, yeah, I to be

4:42

two different people. Yeah, I'm a I relate

4:44

to that. I play I'm a nerd, so

4:46

I play Pokemon every week. That's my week. I just

4:48

thing where I just do to chill

4:50

out. one of then asks of them asks if

4:52

I could do a video for their for their

4:55

brother. and because they were a fan,

4:57

was their birthday. it was then I almost

4:59

then I almost on. on then

5:01

one of them said, of

5:03

I saw oh saw that I And

5:05

I switch and guess I like

5:07

does. I guess I of voice changes,

5:09

like everything changes. of Everything

5:11

changes. It's like you step

5:13

up into everything someone different, but

5:16

like an elevated version and not

5:18

someone different but like an elevated version yeah yeah

5:20

yeah yeah yeah yeah so then not Dan about

5:22

Dan. we're -hmm. Okay. Where were

5:24

you born? I was born I was

5:26

born in My My dad was in the

5:28

the so it's like a military like a military town.

5:30

Okay, all right, fair enough. enough. So then, from

5:32

what I understand though, is that though, is did

5:35

move around quite a bit. Yeah, because

5:37

of his job, like he would just get

5:39

posted and then we'd just move. But

5:41

then and then we'd just we went But then after my

5:43

parents which is where we went to did

5:45

most of our growing up. did most of that's where

5:47

I... up. Yeah, that's where from

5:50

being quiet. changed from being quite like

5:52

a normal kid to... fairly shy

5:54

I would say that's that

5:56

I would say that the the catalyst

5:58

for that. that for the yeah And then, so it

6:00

was the move, but then you also

6:03

said that your parents divorced and then... Yeah.

6:05

So how did those impact you separately? I've

6:08

gone over all, like, this a lot

6:10

in therapy as I've done quite a lot

6:13

as of therapy. And that seemed to be,

6:15

like I said, the catalyst for most

6:17

of the things that I deal with now

6:19

is because I didn't see it coming,

6:21

like the divorce, I didn't see it coming

6:23

at all. It was talked about every

6:25

now and then again from my other families

6:27

that were again divorced. I was like,

6:29

oh, I'm glad that's, we've got like a

6:31

good family unit here and I'm glad

6:33

that's not happening to us. We don't think

6:35

it's gonna happen to us. This is

6:37

interesting. So happening how old were you at

6:40

that time? I think to was us. about 10.

6:42

And then, bam, it's happened. Yeah. And

6:44

the result of that is you have to

6:46

sell your house. We moved to a

6:48

completely different location, like start school again, but

6:50

also go from that small village unit

6:52

to like, I would

6:54

say it's like a normal experience, but

6:56

you're going to have a very

6:58

quiet life, to very busy, and then

7:00

upgrading again to like secondary school.

7:02

I think the transition from primary to

7:04

secondary is quite a big jump

7:06

anyway, especially in that part of your

7:08

childhood. Like in that transition, it's

7:10

quite fragile emotional time anyways. And then

7:12

when you've got divorce, move, transition

7:14

to like secondary school, there's quite a

7:16

lot to experience as a kid.

7:18

Who do you turn to? Because it

7:20

was just what you and your

7:22

brother. Brother, yeah. I think we did

7:24

it in our own way. Like school,

7:26

me and my brother are very

7:28

close. we rarely ever fall out, I

7:30

fell out of something serious. Like

7:32

obviously we bicker, but we were quite

7:34

a unit, I think. Nice. Even

7:36

during that time, like we'd always get

7:39

on. Okay, this is good. This

7:41

is good. And how many years younger

7:43

is your brother? Two and a

7:45

half. Two and a half, okay, obviously

7:47

yeah. So it's fairly close. Like when

7:49

you're older, that gap's almost like

7:51

zero. The divorce caused you to, you

7:53

felt become a little bit more

7:55

shy. Definitely, good. yeah.

7:57

But then also challenges at

7:59

school. Yeah. So what were the were

8:01

the challenges at school? I think I

8:03

think just being put into that

8:05

environment when you have you have spent

8:07

so many years in like

8:09

a smaller school. It's like a massive

8:11

shock to the system. You don't the

8:13

know what to do really know what to do.

8:15

Like I was like, I do? I do? do

8:18

I handle this? this? What happens to an

8:20

enormous amount of children that there

8:22

was is that there That was happening. that

8:24

was How would you? would you the

8:26

type of bullying that was happening to

8:28

you. I I wouldn't say I

8:31

got bullied. I was more... Like everyone

8:33

knew I was like, I wasn't

8:35

just knew I was I wasn't just shy. if

8:37

I was, I was dead shy. Like I you, if

8:39

someone talked to me, I was like. didn't

8:41

want to be talked just didn't want

8:43

to be talked to whatsoever. yeah, my

8:45

social confidence was literally zero. I

8:47

had a core group of friends,

8:50

friends, like maybe or five total. that

8:52

I would... I think there was one there was

8:54

one comment where someone was like, was like,

8:56

oh... If you you talk to him, he'll cry,

8:58

kind of feeling of thing. It was just well known

9:00

that I was super shy. I was super shy.

9:03

pale as well, so when I go

9:05

red, I go red, like so obvious. I can

9:07

feel it in my face as soon

9:09

as I feel it in my face, in

9:11

my face. As soon as I bright red, this is

9:13

embarrassing, okay, I want to leave. red. This is

9:15

embarrassing. I want to leave. Okay. Do you think you

9:17

a result of that shyness, as

9:19

a result of the introversion, as a

9:21

result of the divorce as a result of the

9:24

divorce and maybe feeling

9:26

isolated. how you and your

9:28

brother got into video games. I would say

9:30

so. Yeah, would say so. an always an

9:32

interest there because I remember it was my

9:34

my dad bought me me the Super the Super

9:36

Nintendo. always were always interested in like, it must

9:38

it must have been like Game at that

9:40

time, like We both had like a

9:42

tech kind of a tech kind that was

9:44

the start of when everything start when everything

9:46

much more so much more techie. Basically,

9:49

so we were really were that stuff like robot wars wars

9:51

to watch that used to watch that with

9:53

my then then we'd be interested in

9:55

in like robots get made like can

9:57

we make we make on? We're all we've been very

9:59

techie But yeah, as we played video played

10:01

video games time that time you had to play.

10:04

of the TV in front of the TV together.

10:06

two There's loads of two -player games that we would

10:08

just play. And yeah, we just bombed yeah, we

10:10

or over that or just forget about everything

10:12

and just games. You know play

10:14

games and just play and so it

10:16

was you your brother was your father

10:19

playing also? No, he was less he was less interested.

10:21

He was more of like a mechanic.

10:23

I mean that was his job in

10:25

the his then he was more cars

10:27

and mechanics and mechanics, kind of stuff. DIY, Did

10:29

your mother play? No. No. Did you have friends over playing?

10:31

you have friends over the village, you had a few

10:33

in the like you had a few friends ones were

10:35

the only ones a had console that we

10:38

didn't have. didn't have. Did you have

10:40

favorite games and and your brother played? I would

10:42

say guitar hero and rock band, the two of

10:44

the games that we just absolutely love. We

10:46

also, we we had a PC, that's and

10:48

that's just when the internet was was

10:50

like... slowly becoming more available at

10:52

home. It was still super slow still you

10:54

could only use it if your mom didn't

10:56

want to use the phone it if your mom didn't

10:58

this use like But we had this

11:00

love things as well, like we

11:03

wanted to well. just play games to not

11:05

just play games and watch and stuff.

11:07

We wanted to make it too. to

11:09

So it had we a strong desire to

11:11

figure out how these things were

11:13

made how then try it ourselves. made Did

11:15

you feel try it ourselves. Did you feel

11:17

like school was serving that? passion,

11:20

no way, way, no, not at all. I mean there

11:22

was IT but like at all. was I

11:24

mean, there was and but like that was

11:26

stuff so just with stuff. So just with how

11:28

quick everything evolved from there, like that

11:30

10 years school I was at secondary

11:32

school, like when I started secondary school,

11:34

I didn't have a phone with phone with you

11:36

get to the end of secondary school. end of Everyone

11:39

has internet on their phone, internet

11:41

on their phone like the the tech evolution

11:43

in that that time was ridiculous. so

11:45

think what we were learning at school

11:47

school was just It It became outdated

11:49

so fast. so we did I did things I

11:51

did things like music production, but

11:53

it still but it still felt far

11:55

behind what I could just do at

11:57

home. could just do at move out move out of...

12:00

of House. At that point, right? At that

12:02

point, you career Something what are

12:04

you thinking? Something in the music,

12:06

something in the yeah. Okay. Because that's what

12:08

we moved out what we moved were just at

12:10

the end of sixth the end of sixth

12:12

form. we were And then we were transitioning

12:14

I just I just followed the belt. belt. What

12:16

was your, what was the genre of

12:18

music? of music? I'm a metal head, so

12:20

I love like heavy, heavy music, but also

12:22

the like the of kind of, Star We love

12:24

doing the band stuff. We even

12:26

did shows and stuff, and our

12:29

school had a studio. shows and wasn't

12:31

the best one, but it

12:33

was usable and we the best one,

12:35

in there. usable, and was the dream.

12:37

yeah, tinker around in Music was our

12:39

dream. That was the dream. dream.

12:41

Could you producing, music was our singer That

12:43

was the dream, I tried, you sing? I was the singer,

12:45

singer actually, but, but I... I was the only

12:47

one who would do it. who would do it.

12:49

Oh my gosh, did did you you play as

12:52

well? Yeah, so I did guitar, I wrote the

12:54

songs, the writing songs. I love gosh, you

12:56

were the perfect you were the perfect sing, you

12:58

could write, you were playing the guitar.

13:00

a playing the guitar. is perfect. perfect. All right,

13:02

right, so now I get it, now

13:04

I get the vibe, Now I I

13:06

get the vibe, Okay. And and then you

13:09

decide to start Yeah. And I was looking I

13:11

then - you was looking doing music bits as as

13:13

well, I I volunteered at some music

13:15

music I was lucky enough to get

13:17

lucky there. What I'm picking up though

13:19

is there. were hungry. up though is like

13:21

you were I was always like... I

13:23

was always like, when I was at

13:25

my my mom's like, yeah, the games, thinking

13:28

about how I could do that. that

13:30

Animation, I'm a massive fan of, so

13:32

I was doing that as well,

13:34

making well. I'm making animationsations. Yeah, I Yeah, just

13:36

had this, this to create and

13:38

put to create and put it

13:40

somewhere for at to see. For

13:42

people to see. But at

13:44

that time, had you created anything?

13:46

Or was it you felt like the people

13:48

saw. but you or was

13:50

it more so, the world hasn't but you

13:52

haven't yet. at the you know, the

13:54

world hasn't yet seen it. there was nowhere at

13:57

the time there was just, there was nowhere to put

13:59

it really, the internet was quite... young before we moved

14:01

out we had the dial-up but the

14:03

whole ecosystem of the internet had been

14:05

made yet. Like there was one site

14:07

called New Grounds which was like a

14:09

place similar to YouTube where people could

14:12

upload animations and games and that was

14:14

my kind of that was my YouTube

14:16

at the time. What was your first

14:18

YouTube? My first YouTube is Pokemon. Pokemon

14:20

cards. So I was into that really

14:22

heavily so at the weekends I would

14:25

play tournaments like it was a really

14:27

small hobby. It's massive it's massive in

14:29

comparison now because so many more people

14:31

got into it over the over COVID

14:33

like lockdowns but before it was it

14:35

was small there was a small community

14:38

and then I would travel around playing

14:40

these tournaments and I would then make

14:42

videos on them so I'd make videos

14:44

on like the different decks of different

14:46

strategies how I did at tournaments like

14:48

what tournaments I was going to and

14:51

then I built that up because there

14:53

was only me and like one other

14:55

person that was really doing that. And

14:57

I built it to a point where

14:59

I could get a sponsor from a

15:01

card shop. They paid me enough to

15:04

like keep the hobby going. So the

15:06

hobby would, the videos would pay for

15:08

the hobby so it was like paying

15:10

for itself basically. Gotcha. And what was

15:12

the reason why you recorded it and

15:14

you published it? Like what was the

15:17

drive? If still, I guess in the

15:19

back of my mind, I was like,

15:21

oh, this could be used as some

15:23

form of portfolio, if I needed to.

15:25

Because there's voice work in there, I

15:28

made the music, so I can use

15:30

that too. Okay. So it's probably that

15:32

element of it. Okay. So then where

15:34

does Minecraft fall into picture? So I

15:36

got it go Pokemon cards, which is

15:38

all like slideshow kind of videos, like

15:41

really easy to edit. the process of

15:43

learning how to record gameplay. If that

15:45

makes sense. Like I love learning all

15:47

that kind of creative stuff. And when

15:49

you say the process, break that down

15:51

for me. I think

15:54

back then, capture cards

15:56

were really rare. things

15:58

there many things out

16:00

there to be

16:02

able to capture gameplay.

16:04

So so used an

16:07

emulator, which is basically

16:09

your PC PC to be. to

16:11

be where the video game console you you So

16:13

I did that I did that out how to

16:15

screen out how to screen capture the video,

16:17

the video. posting that. My brother

16:20

that. me My brother then showed

16:22

me Minecraft when I went back to

16:24

my and house and he was like,

16:26

you have to see this. this. It was

16:28

on the Xbox 360 and he built

16:30

this crazy underground thing. thing. I was like,

16:32

oh, this, this looks awesome. looks awesome. So I

16:34

went, as as as I as I got I

16:36

back from my mom's, I downloaded it

16:38

on PC it and I think I've played

16:40

it every day since. I've played it every day since.

16:42

Every day. Literally, Every day. All right, so

16:44

with Minecraft. there are There

16:46

are many people who have no

16:48

idea what Minecraft is. is. Yeah. Right.

16:50

So how would you describe

16:52

Minecraft? I think the I

16:54

think the easiest comparison is is like a big

16:57

box of Lego. that has some

16:59

kind of rules to it, rules to it, but

17:01

also none. Like, with Lego you can

17:03

buy a buy a Lego do the instructions

17:05

and then it's done. and then

17:07

you can then take it apart. then take

17:09

it something new with it. All

17:11

right, so it's like a big

17:13

All right. It's like a big box

17:15

of big box of Legos, right? And with Minecraft, so my

17:18

boys got got me into

17:20

Minecraft. Okay. Okay. Right. And I

17:22

remember specifically after, like, you know, around

17:24

with it, with I said, said... What's

17:27

what's the point of this? Yeah. I was

17:29

like, who like, who wins? Who

17:31

wins? the like, of my point, my youngest

17:33

I remember, he was like, he's to have

17:35

fun. point is to have fun. the point?

17:37

the point? Like, what's the intention? Because. it's interesting, I've

17:39

seen Minecraft rolled out in school

17:41

systems now. school have an education version

17:44

as well, yeah. as If I could I

17:46

could learn from Minecraft, I know, way better. better. Yeah,

17:48

imagine if you had Yeah, imagine Yeah, you had

17:50

Minecraft there's a yeah. Technically, end there's a

17:52

beginning and you can, you the game. Like,

17:54

you nothing, you with nothing, to you build

17:57

up to Dragon, which is like the

17:59

final boss. boss. everyone kind of does

18:01

that once just to do it

18:03

and then then the cool stuff

18:05

in Minecraft happens like you can

18:08

then work on your world for

18:10

years which I've done and loads

18:12

of people have done people tell

18:14

stories make videos like you can

18:16

almost do anything with it it's

18:18

endless yeah like with the you

18:21

say about the education like just

18:23

imagine as a kid reading about

18:25

ancient Egypt for example but instead

18:27

You can go into the game

18:29

and play through ancient Egypt while

18:32

learning the same amount. Top three

18:34

best-selling video games of all time.

18:36

Do you know what this list

18:38

is? Tetris, Minecraft. Oh, is the

18:40

third one? You're so good. Tetris,

18:42

Minecraft. I actually don't know the

18:45

third one. Grand Theft Daughter. Oh,

18:47

I should have said it. But

18:49

yeah. Minecraft, 300 million. Is Minecraft

18:51

number one now? Is it above

18:53

Tetris? So according, this is IGN,

18:56

Tetris was still number one. Okay.

18:58

But I could see Minecraft leapfrog.

19:00

Yeah. How would you say Minecraft

19:02

has changed your life? Yeah, I

19:04

don't know where I'd be without

19:06

that game. Like, it was just,

19:09

when it comes to like my

19:11

interest in animation and video games

19:13

and the way it works, like

19:15

you can do all of that

19:17

in Minecraft. In Minecraft. I just

19:20

satisfied every creative aspect of my

19:22

brain. I could do, you can

19:24

you make music and Minecraft? Oh,

19:26

you can. Yeah, with the no

19:28

blocks, which I've done before. Okay.

19:30

So you can, or you can

19:33

make your own music, then put

19:35

it in the game. Like it's

19:37

endless what you can do. Silence.

19:39

I would imagine there will be

19:41

a lot of people watching who

19:44

have children or brothers, sisters, etc.

19:46

And actually, it was interesting, in

19:48

my mind I said little brothers

19:50

and sisters, but... You could be,

19:52

it's any age? It's any age,

19:55

yeah. Is this something where you

19:57

would, you would seriously suggest that

19:59

every... and try. Yeah, I think so.

20:01

I think so. Did you decide that

20:03

you wanted to make it a career early

20:05

on, was or on, it more so so like You

20:07

just wanted just same with Pokemon. Yeah, I

20:09

just wanted to make videos. Like, as well,

20:11

at that time, there was very, very

20:13

few people. at that time there was very

20:15

living, few to be able to do a four -time

20:17

job. There's very, very few. be able to a full-time

20:20

are we talking about very very

20:22

few. I made were we channel

20:24

in 2012. No. So I made the Minecraft channel

20:26

in so In 2012. In how old

20:28

were you? you? 2012. I moved old

20:30

am I now? for three years. That

20:32

was 12 was 12 years ago,

20:34

so 2021. Okay, and what was your and

20:36

what was your objective Minecraft through

20:38

watching YouTube videos, watching a videos, learner

20:40

I'm a visual learner rather than like

20:42

I'd learner. someone rather watch someone do

20:44

something or through images and video

20:46

read read something. That's just the

20:49

way I'm wired. And And then eventually

20:51

I got to a channel called

20:53

the the which is one of of

20:55

the the first people that made it big

20:57

on big on YouTube. And watched those and then

20:59

me and my I watch those oh,

21:01

we could try this. and my brother were like, oh, we

21:03

could try this. I know how to now. now. got your You've

21:06

got your Minecraft channel. You're still

21:08

working at Tesco. and uni. All All

21:10

right, you're at uni. What about about

21:12

music production? That I tried I

21:14

try to work into the videos

21:16

when I could. I kind

21:18

of discover this with both physical art

21:21

and music production, when you you put

21:23

it into a space where. you're then then

21:25

graded on it, and you're supposed

21:27

to be learning it or - it

21:29

or you're forced into it. it. It kind of

21:31

killed it for me. killed it for me. first time

21:33

I did art, I like. art I fell

21:35

out in love with it as soon as I

21:38

started studying it. like, I don't know what

21:40

it is about it. It's like you're forced to

21:42

create in a certain way almost, which kind

21:44

of it. not the point forced to or music. certain what

21:46

point? which kind you realize that? of

21:48

art or there is the

21:51

potential of a

21:53

career. potential of a what you're doing on

21:55

what you're doing on YouTube? So... I

21:57

knew you I knew you could make money from it I I

21:59

was doing that from Pokemon. but that was from a sponsor

22:01

side rather than a YouTube side. And then,

22:03

like, obviously the Yogscast would then get to

22:06

a point where they would start employing people

22:08

and then there was a big news story.

22:10

It was on BBC where they would then

22:12

have an office. So you were like, oh,

22:14

they're actually turning it into a company. They

22:17

went the more traditional route of making into

22:19

a company, hiring people, people, people, like, well,

22:21

they're people editing their videos for them now.

22:23

They can just play the game. So I

22:25

remember the game. So I remember that. Then

22:28

like Pewdy Pie as well, he was big

22:30

at that time, he was the biggest YouTubeer

22:32

from then until not long ago. And he

22:34

was a big inspiration for me as well.

22:36

And he didn't talk about it much, but

22:39

then it became apparent he was then able

22:41

to do it full time. So at that

22:43

time everyone was like, oh, this is like

22:45

a dream job for people, like you could

22:48

play games for a living, you can actually

22:50

do it. But there's also was at the

22:52

point where it was more like a standard

22:54

wage, it wasn't like... to the heights it

22:56

is now. Like people didn't start, you should

22:59

be like, I could be rich. Like, that

23:01

just, no one was doing that at that

23:03

time. That just wasn't a thing. The way

23:05

you could get monetized back in the day

23:07

is you had to be signed to something

23:10

called an MCN, like a multi-channel network, because

23:12

you're playing a copyrighted game. So all the

23:14

legal stuff behind that gets a bit hazy.

23:16

So I signed to one and then like

23:18

a month later I got my first like

23:21

paycheck paycheck paycheck paycheck and I was like

23:23

paycheck. Like, it's exactly the same. Well, now

23:25

it's like, how can this be? How? How

23:27

can I make this same? And then at

23:30

that point, I was like, oh, this can't

23:32

be real. You just have to keep going

23:34

as you're going. Don't, like, make any drastic

23:36

decisions to then give up and go all

23:38

in. That would be a terrible decision. I'm

23:41

very riskable in general. So I was like,

23:43

oh, I'll just keep going on, see what

23:45

happens. And then I specifically remember remember. in

23:47

that month it grew massively and I think

23:49

the next pay was like over a thousand

23:52

dollars and then I looked at the email

23:54

and I was like I remember I was

23:56

in the kitchen with

23:58

my wife my like, look

24:00

at this. like look at this

24:03

was like. I was like I can't even I

24:05

can't even remember what he said. like I looking

24:07

at the number. the a number of money

24:09

of seen before in my life. We were

24:11

in my life we were very straight for cash at

24:13

that time and that time that add that I

24:15

and I remember I was like oh I'll

24:17

I'll just still keep going as normal,

24:20

like keep the go job, keep everything.

24:22

as normal and then just see what

24:24

happens. I remember remember she was like, no

24:26

you you can you might be able to stop

24:28

Tesco at at least. was And I was like, I

24:30

I don't think it's a good idea, but she was

24:32

the one she was the one that made me

24:35

give it a go. a go. She was this is the time,

24:37

you're coming up to the end of you're coming

24:39

You're gonna have to find like a full

24:41

time job anyway. to have to find a full-time

24:43

job a go. Right. is the time

24:45

to give it a go. this is the

24:47

So it was your wife So it was

24:49

your encouraged you to go full go full-time.

24:52

At or to to attempt it. Yeah, that

24:54

time because I was more than

24:56

happy to do everything at everything at once

24:58

still. if it was all to go

25:00

away the next few months or so on

25:02

the next year, I'd still have. year I'd

25:04

still have changed, it's fine. would

25:06

I'm curious. Did you I'm

25:08

to consult with anyone else other

25:10

than your wife around whether

25:12

you should? wife? No should

25:14

make a go at this, should make a

25:16

go at this at YouTube? No. as well,

25:19

I didn't tell anyone I was

25:21

doing anyone I was doing the because

25:23

I was. really because I was Embarrassed,

25:25

I guess, guess like... It It was

25:27

a new thing, like why are you talking

25:29

to a talking to a screenplay in a that's weird.

25:31

game? And uploading it, that's weird. Interesting. So what

25:33

embarrassing, what did you feel

25:35

was embarrassing about it? embarrassing

25:37

about because I was

25:39

in because I mode performative was and

25:42

still I was like dead shy. So I think

25:44

in my brain, I I was like, people, it's

25:46

just embarrassing to see me acting like

25:48

that me acting like I'm because I'm shy.

25:50

So it doesn't quite add up.

25:52

It doesn't add up. Do you

25:54

recall roughly what the viewership

25:56

was? It It must have been maybe

25:58

like ,000 views of video maybe. Not every video

26:00

even, even, ones that would do well were

26:02

probably would do well but it was. like

26:05

at I think I was I was, day. I

26:07

was uploading and do at least, so

26:09

you quit Tesco. I did. you quit Tesco?

26:11

I did. All right. I'm curious, for

26:13

you to you to that must have been very

26:16

hard. have been very hard. Yeah,

26:18

I didn't tell him I was

26:20

doing them I was I said I

26:22

was doing video editing for doing video editing

26:24

for just companies. They had no idea what

26:26

I was doing. doing. Yeah, because you were

26:28

embarrassed. Yeah. This This reminds me of

26:31

when I started matchmaking. It's

26:33

almost the almost the identical story.

26:35

Mm My My wife encouraged me. go to

26:37

go full like, can I I was like, She

26:39

I do this? can do you can do that,

26:41

right? put the battery back. back. She like, you

26:43

can do it. do it. And when I

26:45

quit. job because I job because I

26:47

was working in finance. I didn't, I I told

26:49

I I told anyone I was doing Because

26:51

I I was embarrassed to say I

26:54

was a matchmaker. I You know,

26:56

I think same I think a the same for a lot

26:58

of things. now, now, if you wrote a song you you

27:00

just performed it on a video a you uploaded it, I

27:02

feel like. it, I feel like if

27:04

huge, if you see yourself from years, say

27:06

musicians that are big now, now, rewind

27:08

10 years and they've done that.

27:10

They're like, oh, that's cool. like, at

27:12

that time, 10 years ago. that time, It's

27:14

a bit cringe. it's a big cringe. Very, very.

27:16

So of kind of kind of feeling,

27:18

I think. YouTube wasn't. YouTube wasn't

27:20

huge, it is now now. in a year like

27:22

less than a year. I went I a

27:24

million subscribers a that's that's

27:26

quick and that's quick. Very. very. Very. What

27:29

do you believe it was? it was

27:31

about you? And I know you're a And

27:33

I know you're a very humble guy. you I

27:35

want you to step outside of that.

27:37

Don't give me a dead answer. me a

27:39

dead TDM answer a this. TDM answer on this. do you

27:41

believe it was about you? you? And

27:44

And don't put it on, it

27:46

was that it was What was it about

27:48

you was it made? that made that channel

27:50

grows so fast. fast? I mean

27:52

initially I was like if

27:55

Like, if you were first to cover

27:57

a mod in a mod in Minecraft. You

28:00

get the views because it's the newest

28:02

video where we get put on we get put

28:04

on some websites as the Like video to go and

28:06

watch and see what happens in the

28:08

mod in the mod like if you were lucky

28:10

enough if go were lucky enough It would go on like

28:12

of the mod would use your videos of

28:14

the mod would is what the mod looks

28:16

like. This is what the mod looks like So

28:19

that's I'd say that's what I did I'd

28:21

say that's what I did initially

28:23

was to was the quickest to get always

28:25

on on always on to see what forums to

28:27

see what new mods were out. were

28:29

out I'd take risks and put up mod

28:31

videos on mods that videos no basically hoping no

28:33

views, basically become a then they would become

28:36

a popular mod the views then roll in views

28:38

would roll in from there. So at

28:40

first it was quickest, But then then I

28:42

started introducing the story elements. So I

28:44

did the characters and stuff and that's

28:46

when it. and stuff and that's when

28:49

it exploded. Yeah, Yeah, crazy

28:51

numbers. To the next little bit. What

28:53

inspired you to do the characters? the

28:55

And I'm smiling And I'm is

28:57

what my this were telling

28:59

me. my boys were characters. characters. So what

29:01

you to do that? to do

29:04

that? think it's just I

29:06

think it's just from my love of

29:08

animation. I Like I loved. of my dreams

29:10

of the of my dreams had had

29:12

the music, but but earlier dream. dream. before

29:14

I I was all into music was having an

29:16

animation but then but then a little bit of

29:18

a shortcut to that bit of a shortcut to

29:20

that All of it's there, ready to go. Just kind

29:22

of have to act it out. kind of have to act don't

29:25

have to learn to animate, to you just have to

29:27

learn how you just have to learn how to use a mod

29:29

that pretends to be camera to be

29:31

a camera just like just like directing a

29:33

movie game in the kind of of like

29:35

an animation. and and then I just

29:37

decided to have, it was a prehistoric

29:39

mod. mod I I was like, oh, it'd

29:41

be cool to have cool to little character

29:43

like a little character that would act like the doctor,

29:45

and and I would talk to

29:48

him backwards and forwards. and forwards.

29:50

this character? character? That's Dr. Traeus. Even the the

29:52

name comes from Tyrannosaurus, like Traeus. I

29:54

I can't remember over with the spot.

29:56

on the spot. And then. that was the first

29:58

That was the first video he was in. then... from there

30:00

I just added more characters I've got

30:02

the like the the skeleton dog was

30:05

grim he was like my companion and

30:07

it started to evolve into like a

30:09

Saturday morning cartoon kind of like that

30:11

those are the cartoons that I loved

30:13

like that's the animations I really wanted

30:15

to make but now I can make

30:18

them in a video game and use

30:20

and just learn how to do it

30:22

on the fly basically. And what's beautiful

30:24

about that is is you're you're getting

30:26

this immediate feedback yeah because you upload

30:29

the video. and then immediately people are

30:31

coming. Yeah, that is one of the

30:33

best things that at the time about

30:35

YouTube is you can try something if

30:37

it didn't work. Try, don't do it

30:39

again or tweak it and try it

30:42

again or if it did work, keep

30:44

doing it. We had that advantage over

30:46

mainstream media. Like we didn't have to

30:48

apply for funding, we didn't have to

30:50

have an idea, work through the ranks,

30:52

try and get that idea published and

30:55

if it didn't work then, well, you

30:57

lost out, like we... We could do

30:59

what we wanted and get instant feedback,

31:01

try again tomorrow. And you would base,

31:03

you would use the comments I would

31:06

imagine. I would also imagine how quickly

31:08

the viewership was to determine what you

31:10

would do next. Yep. Because well back

31:12

then the analytics went as deep, like

31:14

you literally would just look at views,

31:16

likes, comments. That's it. and

31:19

to judge how a video was doing,

31:21

like there's none of that deep analytical

31:23

stuff that you can get now. What

31:25

else is fun interesting about that, just

31:27

thinking about the environment and how important

31:29

environment is to everyone, because environment is

31:31

a fundamental piece of our well-being. But

31:33

you were not pleased with your environment

31:35

as a young person. But what you

31:37

were able to do through Minecraft is

31:39

create your own world. Yeah, yeah, pretty

31:41

much. And I think that's awesome. Yeah,

31:43

like you created the world that you

31:45

wanted to be it. And then you

31:47

just stayed in that world all the

31:49

time because you were reporting constantly. Yeah,

31:51

just focus on that, like I didn't

31:53

have to worry about being a human.

31:55

and I could I could

31:57

myself going, going eating by

31:59

eating and the normal

32:01

stuff. But the rest

32:03

was all videos,

32:05

like. rest was all you said, I was

32:07

in my I would like you I could just do

32:09

that all the time. I could just worry

32:11

about anything else. not worry doing all

32:13

of this yourself. you're doing all of this

32:16

point yeah you are So you

32:18

are Coming up with these concepts, yeah

32:20

we're then it all, it all you're

32:22

then editing it all, all yeah it,

32:25

it right You're then doing the

32:27

analysis around it. it So how So of

32:29

your much of your day was

32:31

being spent? went to two videos a day as

32:33

well. went was videos a day

32:35

became the that was was if you're a

32:37

game and YouTube, the standard was much as

32:39

you can and two videos as much as you

32:42

can the videos spot. just be the sweet

32:44

spot could do as well you could do

32:46

like you knew would do One video you knew would

32:48

do well, and then the other be could be a new

32:50

idea. And then you and then work off that.

32:52

So like if You would just work off that. work,

32:54

if one video didn't work, it was

32:56

had you had another one for the

32:59

day. the day. And then, yeah, we're uploading obscene amounts

33:01

a day, every day, like two a So

33:03

I'd wake up. non-stop. So I'd

33:05

videos. videos. Sometimes I wouldn't

33:07

eat lunch, eat lunch, like because

33:09

I need to make these videos. to make these

33:11

to make, I didn't need to make, I my

33:13

brain, to I needed to make two a

33:15

day. brain, I Seven days a week?

33:18

two a day. 365 days week? Yeah. 365

33:20

days, like a year. Non-stop. In

33:22

that year, did you take a holiday? Did

33:24

you a holiday? I did five years straight of

33:26

it. bit. of of that. if I

33:28

had if I had something coming up

33:30

I'd make make So like I used to I

33:32

used to when I was getting popular I'd do

33:34

events at the weekends. popular, I'd do events

33:36

at the So if I was taking

33:38

So if I off, I Friday, I'd have

33:40

to. Sunday off, I'd by in time

33:43

I'd make six extra videos. extra to

33:45

upload while I was away. while I was that

33:47

So meant having them recorded, but

33:49

then them while I was at

33:51

the event. edited them while I was

33:53

the event. So do the event, edit

33:55

after. just to make sure sure

33:58

kept going. going. See,

34:00

when the event was coming up,

34:02

that was even worse. Like, I'd

34:04

stay up to, like, one, two,

34:07

three, four am, because I had

34:09

to make my day, like, double

34:11

years long to make four videos

34:13

in the day, rather than two.

34:15

Yeah, that seems grueling. Pretty intense,

34:18

but I was like in it,

34:20

like, I was just, I was

34:22

in such a rhythm with it.

34:24

I think we didn't go on

34:26

holiday either, or if I did

34:29

go away for, like a couple

34:31

of days or like a couple

34:33

days or whatever. Ready to go.

34:35

Okay, that would not no day

34:37

would be missed So you continue

34:40

on continue on? Mm-hmm Subscriber rate

34:42

is growing. Yeah, ridiculous. Yeah, over

34:44

that five years was just yeah

34:46

nuts So by the time so

34:48

five years was what? 2017? How

34:51

many subscribers are you at then?

34:53

Because I think that's when Forbes

34:55

is that one Forbes around that

34:57

time. I think yeah after I

34:59

come over when like It was?

35:02

My memories will fall back. 2017?

35:04

It was. 26 years. Forbes says

35:06

that you were the highest paid

35:08

YouTuber that year. Yeah. Forbes said.

35:10

Forbes said. Yeah, Forbes said. And

35:13

Forbes said, and these numbers are

35:15

off, Forbes said you made $16

35:17

million that year. That's what they

35:19

said. Yeah, right. So we know,

35:21

give or take. Sure, yeah, there's

35:24

as a guess, like they do

35:26

reach out, but we didn't give

35:28

them any info, they just worked

35:30

off of what they thought or

35:32

knew about the space, basically. Okay.

35:35

But give or take. I mean,

35:37

that's quite a difference from a

35:39

few hundred pounds from Tesco just

35:41

five years earlier. So at this

35:43

point, how does life change for

35:46

you or does it not? The

35:48

only thing that really changed was

35:50

the house that we were renting

35:52

and then we bought a house.

35:54

That's the only thing that really

35:57

changed. The rest I was just

35:59

carried on. making videos. So

36:01

else changes in your life. In

36:04

terms of in your nothing else changes. of

36:06

like a couple of cars,

36:08

because we also changes. Maybe like

36:11

a couple have a car, so. we

36:13

also think we bought two cars we

36:16

just The rest was all. so

36:18

I for videos, we bought two PCs,

36:20

gaming consoles, all that. was

36:22

all stuff for videos so like

36:25

No, was it. gaming

36:27

And that was it? all

36:29

that. and you now are not, and you're

36:31

not, down you're not slowing down

36:33

either. No, You're probably ramping

36:35

up. I kept about the about

36:37

the same. I was starting then

36:39

I was starting to explore

36:41

stuff outside of of videos, so that's

36:44

the when like the books, the tours, the gaming

36:46

conventions and stuff. That

36:48

was when they kicked in, but

36:50

still in, but to a day. to

36:52

a day. Okay, so keeping to? At this

36:55

time time too. I I would imagine

36:57

because the subscriber subscriber this point,

36:59

you're probably at in the tens

37:01

of millions of what about 10

37:03

million then, yeah. of Okay. probably about

37:05

the highest subscribed at that point in the

37:07

UK. the highest subscribed

37:10

at that point in Probably

37:12

I don't know probably game in

37:14

YouTube a definitely up like

37:16

top three probably yeah three. three

37:18

in terms of like

37:20

views. like views There there was one time where

37:22

I was the most viewed on the entire website for a

37:24

month. the entire website for a

37:27

month and consistently in like

37:29

the top five Yeah, it's not the

37:31

entire website, it was

37:33

ridiculous. was ridiculous It's I mean,

37:35

and who else is on on the

37:37

list? list? I mean it was by Pew to pie

37:40

No, not not even musicians, it

37:42

was all like it was nursery rhyme

37:44

channels. rhyme channels. Because musicians musicians only

37:46

upload like when they they have songs

37:48

out. They don't upload as regularly

37:50

as us. We're us, we're here, and we're

37:52

doing two videos a day. a day. So it

37:54

was like Pew to Pie, Stampe well, it's up

37:57

there. up there, other Minecraft YouTube,

37:59

and then. Probably, yeah, kids'

38:01

nursery rhymes or unblocking videos. That was

38:03

like the top five, top ten. Look

38:05

at that. Yeah. But because of that

38:07

amount of viewership, you must be recognized

38:10

when you step outside of your house.

38:12

Yeah. So how does then fame begin

38:14

to impact you and how you show

38:16

up? Because you're still the shy guy.

38:18

I'm still the shy guy. I still

38:20

have now. Dan and Dan TDM. So

38:22

when you step out, you're Dan. So

38:25

how do you balance that? It's interesting

38:27

because my most popular videos that were

38:29

Minecraft didn't have face camp, but when

38:31

I started doing other games or like

38:33

maps and stuff, I did have the

38:35

face camp. So yeah, then it started

38:37

to get recognized out on the street,

38:39

like people would fight out where we

38:42

lived. It was a lot to get

38:44

used to. People would track down to

38:46

find out where you lived. Yeah, yeah.

38:48

And would just show up and say,

38:50

hey, can you play Minecraft with me?

38:52

Yeah, it was usually like, so we

38:54

had the rented place we were in

38:57

before we went to our own house

38:59

was on a school route. That didn't

39:01

really come into our radar as an

39:03

issue because we didn't know that. We

39:05

didn't know it was on a school

39:07

route where kids would walk, like as

39:09

a shortcut past our house. Until I

39:11

got recognized. outside because I was getting

39:14

out of the car or something and

39:16

then from there it just snowboard so

39:18

like we couldn't answer the door there

39:20

was like a windows at the front

39:22

we couldn't really walk past at school

39:24

times because they had to be looking

39:26

in like so yeah we had to

39:29

move from there and then I don't

39:31

even know how I got out because

39:33

we were not on a score at

39:35

this time. But it just must have

39:37

been talked about, like someone must have

39:39

found out and then just been talked

39:41

about and spread throughout this town that

39:44

that's where we lived because we had

39:46

some some parents drive to our house

39:48

like hundreds of miles to the house

39:50

so their kids could say hi. So

39:52

it spread further than like the town.

39:54

It was like like,

39:56

was somewhere I

39:58

couldn't find it online,

40:01

but it was find

40:03

it online, So it me

40:05

understand So help me

40:07

parents, we drive hundreds of

40:09

miles we drive come to

40:11

your house, miles on your

40:13

door, your house, knock on your answer, you'd

40:15

answer. I would imagine. you just

40:17

answer it. yeah, you just answer do

40:19

they say, they say? what

40:21

do they say? They say. Well, it was

40:24

his you can't really say

40:26

no, really say no. Like, so. I

40:28

I think most of the parents would send their

40:30

kids up. send their that premise that you can't

40:32

really. that It's not really, it's

40:34

not that far, they're just there to

40:36

not the me. Like, they don't

40:39

quite... they're the concept meet me. Like

40:41

they don't quite grasp the concept

40:43

of overstepping that, So I don't

40:45

think they quite grasp

40:47

that overstepped, so I don't the picture, do

40:49

the signing. So obviously,

40:52

get the picture, do the signing,

40:54

and then I'm very shy and I'm

40:56

not very good with confrontation either, either. but there

40:58

was a there was a point where I had to

41:00

be like, to be you get your mom for me? And then just

41:02

have a mom for me? And then just have

41:04

a is not like, of is not

41:06

But I don't even know if

41:08

it was useful because they

41:10

got what they wanted anyway, so.

41:13

know if it was Tough situation. they got what

41:15

they that is an enormous boundary

41:17

cross. Yeah. An enormous boundary

41:19

cross. is happening. And

41:21

this is happening repeatedly.

41:24

Yeah. So you had to move. move. We We

41:26

had to move, yeah. we were just like on a were

41:28

just like on a normal street. I mean,

41:30

it was a nice house, but on a

41:32

normal street, a normal no gates, no nothing, you

41:34

could just no gates, up to our house. could just

41:36

walk had to move a second time? never had to

41:39

move a Because of Yeah. Because of the fate? At that

41:41

that point, I I don't think we'd have ended up where

41:43

we were now. where we were now, if it if

41:45

it didn't get as crazy

41:47

as it did. So now you probably

41:49

probably with undisclosed bat bat cave. Yeah,

41:51

Yeah, kind of. it's to

41:53

buy, to buy surprised. deep Deep

41:55

underground. Yeah. But with

41:57

the recognition though, recognition what.

42:00

I find interesting is that you

42:02

feel like you're recognized predominantly by,

42:04

you know, these are gamers who

42:07

recognize you. And predominantly it was

42:09

kids. I did have blue hair

42:11

for like five years as well,

42:13

so it was pretty easy to

42:16

spot. But the parents would also

42:18

spot me if they heard my

42:20

voice about it. I recognize your

42:23

voice. So yeah, that's me. Is

42:25

that one of the reasons why

42:27

you start with the blue hair?

42:30

No, I just got tired of

42:32

upkeeping. It's quite an upkeeping. And

42:34

at this point now, I'm just

42:37

losing it. All right. Welcome to

42:39

the club. Welcome to the club.

42:41

With the fame, though, being someone

42:44

who is notoriously, as you're saying,

42:46

is shy. Yeah. How is that,

42:48

how do you operate? Because what

42:51

I've seen a lot of people

42:53

do in the industry, right, is

42:55

have a... massive entourage and they

42:58

stay insulated within that entourage. So

43:00

therefore they don't have to deal

43:02

with the public. Others don't go

43:05

out. Others develop all types of

43:07

negative coping behaviors. How do you

43:09

deal with the fame knowing that

43:12

you're shy? I didn't go out.

43:14

So I would only go out

43:16

during school hours. So I would

43:19

avoid, I would only go out

43:21

between like 11 and 1. Because

43:23

I knew kids would be at

43:26

school and then if I went

43:28

out like school rush hour that

43:30

was just I mean it was

43:33

fine I talk like I've had

43:35

negative experience but I really haven't

43:37

like I've never had a negative

43:40

experience with someone Recognizing me at

43:42

all But it's just the act

43:44

of be I recognized. It's just

43:47

like it was too much for

43:49

some reason like I'm someone who

43:51

doesn't like having ironically all eyes

43:54

on me so if someone recognizes

43:56

me and then other people

43:58

We'll use this. who's

44:01

this like all eyes then turn on

44:03

you and and I just that, hate that feeling,

44:05

hate so I would just avoid it. yeah

44:07

so I would as much as possible. it as

44:09

do you hate about that, Philly? what

44:11

do you hear about that Philly

44:13

I really know just like yeah the

44:16

eyes on you, like the

44:18

pressure of... of as well like being

44:20

as well like in that in that moment.

44:22

I'm just I'm just walking

44:25

around, grocery is being feel

44:27

like. I feel like There's

44:29

an expectation that I need to be

44:31

this. I need to be this I don't

44:33

know what know what it is, like and the

44:35

the expectation to be. to be Who

44:38

they think you are. are right? Yeah, right

44:40

and it's not it's not someone

44:42

who you are. a part of

44:44

me, part of me, but

44:46

it's not 100 % of the

44:48

time. time know that you

44:50

have millions of people, but

44:52

namely young people people. follow your

44:54

every move, really. really. So intentionally

44:56

positioned yourself as a positive

44:59

role model. yourself Do you? role

45:02

model. Yeah. truly understand.

45:04

or truly understand the

45:07

influence, the level of influence that

45:09

you have. over these

45:11

over these I don't

45:13

think I'll ever quite grasp ever quite

45:15

especially when it was at

45:17

his peak, especially when I was at his

45:19

peak, how vast, the the reach was.

45:21

Like, you could see it in

45:24

numbers, but when you turn it

45:26

out to people, like, out to ridiculous.

45:28

it's tours and stuff, like, putting

45:30

numbers to faces, and stuff like putting people, to

45:32

them telling you their stories, them telling

45:34

you their like the charity stuff, doing

45:36

of that really does. stuff like all

45:38

of that really you realize how important

45:40

your silly videos are. your silly I

45:42

just think are like I just think

45:45

they're I'm highly of myself, of

45:47

myself so I'm do they connect

45:49

they connect so vividly with with

45:51

people but it can like certain times in

45:53

times in people's lives lots of

45:55

of people they've learned an entire entire language

45:58

just by listening to my videos.

46:00

It's when you meet the It's

46:02

when you meet the people in person. really hits home

46:04

what these city really hits

46:06

home what I truly videos mean. I see

46:08

that what I truly appreciate

46:11

is I see that you

46:13

do understand this because you

46:15

position yourself as a positive Yeah,

46:17

role model. my Yeah, I've

46:19

tried I think that's one think that's

46:21

one of the things that set me aside

46:23

as well, well. Like I've really tried

46:26

my hardest to to just... Be

46:29

be kind, know what else what else

46:32

to say, be, yeah, positive and kind

46:34

kind. it just a fun, make it just

46:36

a fun, safe space. my videos. where you come

46:38

to watch my videos, be, that you know it's gonna be. always

46:41

all the like, say a person person we can trust.

46:43

We can leave him to watch your videos. know

46:45

it's going to be fine. going to that meant

46:47

a lot because I made that conscious decision to

46:49

do that. conscious decision to

46:51

do that. Yeah. So hearing that is. Truss

46:53

is working. Yeah, yeah, and it's appreciated.

46:56

I mean I a parent,

46:58

you know It's appreciated because

47:00

not everyone I believe uses

47:02

their platform I believe uses their platform

47:04

for good, know? and so just so

47:06

so the depths that you would

47:08

fluence are know are no like

47:11

you floor to it, there's no ceiling. Yeah, no

47:13

floor to it. There's no

47:15

story is like, It's insane. only only really

47:18

only to light when to store, like meet

47:20

someone and you a story

47:22

like that it's like. like

47:25

still mind -blowing every time, still So

47:27

then thinking about the scale

47:29

of it. then thinking gone

47:31

around the world. of it

47:33

mmm you've gone around the

47:35

world yeah yeah in was it's

47:38

it what's is

47:40

it is it what's is

47:42

it the city opera house yeah

47:44

so second fastest Yeah,

47:46

yeah at the second

47:49

fastest fastest. artist

47:51

yeah That is, that's my humble admit.

47:53

Yeah, I I think

47:56

that's probably probably, of all

47:58

the stuff, that probably... what I

48:00

I would say is is pinnacle moment moment.

48:02

an iconic venue to even be able to

48:04

play in to even be able to play in

48:06

is crazy. I don't even know how we

48:08

secured that how we secured that because show, with a

48:10

YouTube that doesn't make sense. Like, what's

48:12

he gonna do? that doesn't make But then

48:14

to play like an iconic venue

48:16

like that to play yeah, was just next

48:18

level. venue like was really yeah it was just

48:21

next ha. level. That was really like

48:23

go So you go gone there more than

48:25

once. more We did. We did. For

48:28

the opera house, house, we did four shows two

48:30

days, two days, day, three in one the

48:32

one in the other, I think. sold sold

48:35

out. out. sold out, Yeah. All right, so

48:37

that at the show, what were you doing at the show? right,

48:39

so then at the show, what

48:41

were you doing at the show? it is

48:43

like a The easiest way for

48:45

me to describe it UK pantomime. But when I

48:47

say that pantomime. But when I say

48:49

that to Americans, usually they don't

48:51

understand it, because they don't quite

48:53

have the pantomime. But it's it's like...

48:56

So So there's me and another

48:58

human character, like, like as a physical

49:00

human presence on presence on stage me

49:03

is a big screen a big I

49:05

talk to all my other characters. So

49:07

it's like like the videos, but the

49:09

videos, but as much could get effect as we

49:11

could get it in then we do play And then

49:13

we do play games on it's but it's not

49:15

me like sitting there in a chair a games

49:17

for an hour and a hour half, hour and a

49:19

half it's a a fully scripted

49:21

story where we played games the

49:23

progress the story. There's a villain beat

49:25

at at the end, but we

49:28

also get kids up to play

49:30

the games the help us at the

49:32

same time. the same And there's elements

49:34

in the show where the entire

49:36

crowd can help. crowd can to because I

49:38

really wanted so passive to watch. I

49:40

wanted them to feel like they were to

49:42

of the show as well. part of the show

49:44

as well. Even if if they didn't

49:46

get individually picked to come up on

49:48

stage, there the I think, two occasions where

49:51

the whole auditorium could help. I wanted

49:53

it to wanted it to feel quite interactive, which

49:55

I think we I think we pulled off. Yeah, you did

49:57

it, you did it. it. So do you plan

49:59

on on going back? back tour. tour? Not currently,

50:01

like I love the live currently like

50:03

I love the on stage feeling of being

50:05

on stage in front of like a

50:07

couple thousand people nothing nothing that can

50:10

come back to to that feeling. It's just

50:12

a time It's just a time So we did,

50:14

I think we did, I think the first tour

50:16

was over a year and a half. there were

50:18

gaps in there were gaps in between obviously,

50:20

but it was a lot of work. I was

50:22

still doing two videos a day. two They all

50:24

didn't have an editor, so I was doing it

50:26

at the same time. so I is up with

50:28

you? it at the same time. I believe made enough to get

50:31

an editor. to get an now I do. now I do. I still

50:33

do still do things myself when I can, but.

50:35

But yeah, over that over that time. it

50:37

for a year and did every year and

50:39

a half and then took a break

50:41

and then do to do another tour, but

50:43

bigger ones, like in bigger venues. bigger venues. We

50:46

did four We did the dates

50:48

in the UK so that was so that

50:50

was between eight and 10 ,000 people at

50:52

one time. The way you make money

50:54

on a tour on as a tour is do as

50:56

do it as much as you can, like do as many

50:58

shows as you can. as you can. Yeah. And I I the,

51:00

I I believe, the correct decision

51:02

to stop. stop. But now I can't see myself

51:04

ever can't see myself ever

51:06

I can't see myself At this

51:09

time, I can't see myself doing

51:11

long tours again. time away the time

51:13

away from I just, I can't do it,

51:15

it. Yeah, it's possible. I can see it.

51:17

You're locked in, you're locked in.

51:19

What I've noticed noticed talking about about.

51:21

this life story is you keep keep

51:23

mentioning your wife wife in this this, know

51:25

know what I mean? in pivotal moments,

51:27

you mention her name, her and

51:29

I find that find that very So you

51:31

knew each other. you knew each other you

51:34

start met at what age? at

51:36

what age we We would have met like

51:38

a year, eight or nine or nine when I got

51:40

put into a class. So we've been around each

51:42

other since then. other since then around

51:44

year eight or year nine yeah I you

51:46

are move how old you are then but

51:48

say let's say 11 Yeah, 11-12, 12,

51:51

age, yeah. All right. So at right, so at that

51:53

point, you're friends. I mean, not I

51:55

mean, knowing my friends just like

51:57

in the same class class, and our

51:59

last names started with. same two letters. So if

52:01

you had a teacher that would seat

52:03

you by last name order, which is

52:05

quite common in our school, we'd be

52:07

sat next to each other. Okay. All

52:09

right, so you were four, you were

52:11

match-made. Yeah, we kind of, yeah. Match-made

52:13

by last names. Yes. At what point

52:15

does it become romantic? Because I understand

52:17

that you were married, quote-unquote, early. Yeah.

52:19

At what point do you feel like,

52:21

okay, this is more than just a

52:24

friend? around like six form times that's

52:26

like 16-17 I think just the more

52:28

we hung out the more we were

52:30

like oh this this might be more

52:32

than more than friends and as well

52:34

I think I didn't I still really

52:36

talk much like I was still quite

52:38

a passive member of this friendship group

52:40

but she found me interesting for some

52:42

reason so she would talk to me

52:44

rather than the other way around interesting

52:46

yeah even when we were sat close

52:48

to each other like I was just

52:50

like let's just get through the school

52:52

day but she would try and talk

52:54

to me. You were not ultra-confident. You

52:56

were not chatting, so you're the opposite

52:58

of these things. What do you think

53:00

that she was drawn to? I'm going

53:02

to answer, but I'm going to ask

53:05

her this when I get home, because

53:07

I don't know. There was probably a

53:09

slight mystery about me, I would say,

53:11

because I didn't say anything. I feel

53:13

like I was into stuff that wasn't

53:15

that common, so like I was really

53:17

into my music and my musical instruments,

53:19

which in our... peer group wasn't that

53:21

common or like the more confident people

53:23

were into rugby football like the classic

53:25

stuff. Yep. I play Pokemon gods and

53:27

then played video games so she found

53:29

that interesting for some reason I'm not

53:31

sure quirky or I don't know. Yeah

53:33

I think she probably leaned in to

53:35

those interests because they were different. Yeah.

53:37

And what I found is that people

53:39

who are open-minded, what they do is

53:41

they went... You know, they're A, they're

53:43

curious if you're open-minded. And B, you

53:46

lean into the curiosity. So why does

53:48

he... play cards, how

53:50

do you play? How do

53:52

you right now, my

53:54

son, now, my son, the one

53:56

who in a Pokemon

53:58

you. He's in a And

54:00

he sat down and

54:02

tried to explain

54:04

it to me. like,

54:06

he sat down do you

54:08

play this? I

54:10

still don't quite understand.

54:12

me. I was like, how think

54:14

you probably still of

54:16

it. quite understand. Yeah. get married

54:18

at probably, you know, part of

54:21

it. And so 20, I think I

54:23

was totally at what age? 21. Twenty. I think

54:25

I is Much is much

54:27

younger than the average age. age. Yeah,

54:29

especially now. Yeah, it's getting older,

54:31

I think. getting older, I think. did you

54:34

know? know you were ready to

54:36

to be married. 21? Yep. So I

54:38

would say, this might be a hot

54:40

would but I feel like This

54:42

might be a hot take, but I

54:44

feel like more big in together. than getting

54:47

more big of deal than getting married. Okay. So we

54:49

I think. had already done that

54:51

already done that for like three

54:53

years. and we were still working still

54:55

working, still getting on. We were were like...

54:58

attached to the hip, like we just get on, like

55:00

we to the hip, of just get on.

55:03

Like we made one of the hardest

55:05

things you can do which I think

55:07

is moving in together having from having

55:09

kids. it. Like, we were successful, we We did it. our way

55:11

to we were successful, our we together already,

55:13

and our way to building felt

55:15

lives together you just, when you and

55:18

know, you know, kind of It just felt like.

55:20

the best decision you've ever made.

55:22

One of the best when you know

55:24

you know ever of thing. One of the best decision

55:26

of the best decisions you've ever

55:28

made. 100% how do you believe your How

55:30

do you believe? I say your marriage

55:32

your marriage. because I would when

55:34

I say your marriage, is your best

55:37

I would imagine your wife is

55:39

your best friend. you how do you How that

55:41

how do you believe that, that

55:43

marriage has impacted and who you specifically have become

55:45

to this you think have become to this

55:47

day. I think we very each other

55:49

very, very well. We have two

55:51

different brains, but together they work really

55:53

well. work really well so if I'm or

55:56

something or something or I just run

55:58

everything past her, her because she has... just

56:00

this level headedness like it's cliche but

56:02

I feel like she's always right like

56:05

she has the what I'm missing in

56:07

my brain sometimes she's we just complement

56:09

each other perfectly and she's and I'm

56:11

not outgoing I don't have loads of

56:14

friends so she's always been like my

56:16

go-to like we've been on this journey

56:18

from literally nothing to now together learning

56:21

the whole process ourselves like I can

56:23

never imagine I've been single this whole

56:25

time and then try and try and

56:28

find like a partner. I can't even

56:30

imagine how that would, I would approach

56:32

that now with the way things have

56:35

gone. We've just been the perfect team

56:37

I think to be able to tackle

56:39

this together. You know what I truly

56:41

resonate so deeply with was when you

56:44

said that she said, hey Dan you

56:46

should do this YouTube full-time, you know,

56:48

I distinctly remember, I mean my career

56:51

has not had the same arc as

56:53

yours. But me pivoting from finance into

56:55

matchmaking was a very important moment in

56:58

my life. But I distinctly remember going

57:00

to family members, friends. I even called

57:02

a meeting of friends to come over

57:05

to my house and present them this

57:07

idea. And I distinctly remember almost everyone

57:09

said, do not do this. Do not

57:11

go into this career. This is. this

57:14

is not the right move for you

57:16

Paul my wife said no I think

57:18

you should do this yeah because they

57:21

understand you as well like your family

57:23

and friends can understand you on a

57:25

level but I feel like if you

57:28

have your right other person they understand

57:30

you and will always understand you at

57:32

a deeper level that anyone ever will

57:35

so they know like they're on the

57:37

same wavelength as you that they know

57:39

what you will capable of sometimes like

57:41

I didn't do the whole meat and

57:44

thing, but because I knew what they

57:46

would say. I kept it it

57:48

secret for the

57:51

longest time until it

57:53

was successful. was successful.

57:55

made the right choice.

57:58

I made I didn't

58:00

consult you on it.

58:02

you on it. My wife

58:05

is the only person

58:07

I trust I I

58:09

have people that

58:11

I trust like people

58:14

but she's 95% but she's my

58:16

go to if I only ever ever

58:18

with one person or talk

58:20

to one person talk to again,

58:22

would be her. that would be her. As

58:24

Dan and I have both experienced

58:26

in a world full of uncertainty,

58:29

having a partner truly understands and

58:31

believes in you can be

58:33

your greatest source of strength and

58:35

safety. source Trust, shared values and

58:37

co -regulation create a safe haven,

58:40

empowering you to take risks

58:42

and thrive. you to take we

58:44

have another and thrive. we

58:46

have two boys. another similarities, we

58:48

have two boys. Yes. Yes. So, uh, fatherhood. changes

58:51

all of us. Oh my Yeah How did it

58:53

change you? It's presented a whole lot of it

58:56

change you? I wasn't prepared for. I

58:58

a whole lot of challenges.

59:00

I wasn't prepared for for think

59:02

you can prepare as much

59:04

as you want be prepared. If

59:06

anyone never be prepared. If anyone

59:08

says they were 100 % prepared years of

59:10

years of being a a parent, they're

59:12

lying. lying. And even even after you already

59:15

have a child. child. Yeah, it's like the second is just a

59:17

second is just a Yeah, they're not the same. We

59:19

were living in a place same lots of young a place

59:21

where there's lots of young families, I

59:23

so but all these people have was an appointment, I was

59:25

struggling, like I was it figured out, why these people have it figured

59:27

out. they don't have it figured out. Why it, no I find

59:29

it easy, they're like them? one of them things that you

59:31

just, you just, you learn as you learn as you it easy, go, like,

59:33

of it. learn as you go, like, knows what they're doing.

59:35

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, work, just one of them

59:37

things like, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, You learn as

59:39

you go, work, work, work, work, like, so much. work,

59:41

work, work, so the a transition going from that

59:43

to that to was my biggest thing in

59:46

life was my work. was my work that what

59:48

I was I was a in for. in

59:50

for so from that... from that

59:52

then there's actually something more important than

59:54

that. more important than

59:56

I was tricky to navigate. quite tricky

59:58

to navigate but now I've made

1:00:00

that transition, they are my, they're

1:00:02

my world. Like, they're what's

1:00:05

important to me. I would choose

1:00:07

them over everything. Yes, yes.

1:00:09

And so boundaries, what are the

1:00:11

boundaries that you now put

1:00:13

in place to protect, you know,

1:00:16

to protect that time that

1:00:18

you have with them? Ash is

1:00:20

almost five. I've only spent

1:00:22

two times away from him. One

1:00:24

was for a massive opportunity,

1:00:26

which isn't out yet. And

1:00:30

even that was like, that was the

1:00:32

hardest decision that I've ever had to

1:00:34

make, such a hard decision to make.

1:00:36

Like, I've turned down so many things

1:00:38

just because it would mean that I'm

1:00:40

not there for them. And as well,

1:00:43

like being a parent, know, that things

1:00:45

can just happen and I want to

1:00:47

be there. If something goes wrong or

1:00:49

my wife needs extra support, well, they

1:00:51

need extra support. It's my job to

1:00:53

be there, I think. There was a

1:00:55

project that I got. It extra was

1:00:57

one of those, I can't turn it

1:00:59

down. It's a life -changing opportunity. And I

1:01:01

would be away for roughly 35 days.

1:01:03

That's long. I remember, we had just

1:01:05

had our first son. I remember going

1:01:07

to the airport, my wife dropped me

1:01:10

off, I'm in tears. Yeah, yeah, I

1:01:12

was the same. But

1:01:14

also trying to not make it too much of

1:01:16

a big deal because I don't want him to

1:01:18

feel like I'm disappearing forever. Like, I don't want

1:01:20

it to feel like I'm disappearing. But like, yeah,

1:01:23

a so hard. So hard. I

1:01:27

need to come clean and tell

1:01:29

you about the love affair I've

1:01:31

been having these last two years.

1:01:33

But before you start thinking that

1:01:35

I'm disloyal, don't worry, my wife

1:01:37

knows everything. Because even Jill can't

1:01:39

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1:02:35

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1:02:37

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I would love to talk would love

1:03:24

to talk about mental health. I've

1:03:27

seen you. on the forefront

1:03:29

of this. I'm On the forefront of

1:03:31

this, I'm so pleased you are, in

1:03:33

particular that you are, the forefront of

1:03:35

this. But why is this topic in

1:03:37

particular, why are you so passionate about

1:03:39

mental health? about mental health?

1:03:41

I still... I talked about more

1:03:44

now. I was talked about more

1:03:46

now, still growing. Like still growing, like more people

1:03:48

talk about it now than when I

1:03:50

was a kid. was a kid. But... I I

1:03:52

still don't think it's taken 100% seriously seriously so

1:03:54

important so important to just try and

1:03:57

make it so natural to talk about

1:03:59

what's going on. your brain, even

1:04:01

if it's so dark or negative or

1:04:03

you don't want to bother people

1:04:05

about it I still feel like

1:04:07

there's a and you don't want to bother

1:04:09

people about it. I still feel like be so a

1:04:11

resistance to be able to be so open. open as

1:04:13

open as open as I can

1:04:15

because I have a platform of people

1:04:17

that would open as I can

1:04:19

and I have a platform

1:04:22

of people that and also mirror maybe

1:04:24

take that advice and be open that

1:04:26

and be open that and be

1:04:28

open as well. And I would I

1:04:30

would imagine makes you such a makes

1:04:32

you such a great... if think

1:04:34

you know, you will, this you know around

1:04:36

this topic a that from a lot

1:04:38

of people from the from

1:04:40

the outside in had you had not

1:04:42

talked about any challenges you had

1:04:44

with your mental health. your The assumption

1:04:46

was, oh my the assumption was, oh my God, Dan? Yeah,

1:04:48

the best life ever. the best life

1:04:50

no problems, look at him. He

1:04:53

has no problems whatsoever. that's why that's

1:04:55

why when I started doing the

1:04:57

research, I I think I got caught

1:04:59

into that. that. I got caught into

1:05:01

that. Oh, what he, this

1:05:03

guy had, know, guy says

1:05:05

he's making more Forbes says

1:05:07

he's making more you know. everybody.

1:05:10

But if you if you could. could

1:05:12

go back, If you could go

1:05:14

back had had lots of therapy, which I

1:05:16

I love that you talk about how

1:05:18

open you've been with your therapy.

1:05:20

When you go back therapy, when you

1:05:22

first became aware. became

1:05:25

aware of mental health.

1:05:27

health. and and it not being at the level

1:05:29

that you wanted it to be. you wanted

1:05:31

When was that? What was happening in your life? What

1:05:34

was after i had we

1:05:36

had Just the time we

1:05:38

had Asher was the time. years

1:05:40

ago. son? Yeah, we like five years

1:05:42

lockdown as well. That

1:05:45

was had Asher and then we went

1:05:47

as a for as well. That

1:05:49

was another catalyst

1:05:51

into a hole. falling into a

1:05:53

hole that had no bond. It

1:05:56

was a... It was tough. Yeah,

1:05:58

really tough. tough. five

1:06:00

years ago, we go into lockdown

1:06:02

yeah you are a new You are a

1:06:04

new he was three he think he

1:06:06

was in in January. so he was like

1:06:08

he was three months old. and

1:06:10

then I would and then I would imagine you're still

1:06:13

keeping up with the same level of production. of I

1:06:15

was trying I at that point, yeah. I was

1:06:17

still trying to do, I wasn't doing two a

1:06:19

day, was doing one a day. two a day I was

1:06:21

doing one a day I'm still yeah still keep

1:06:23

the same keep the same level okay

1:06:25

So, and I would I would imagine at

1:06:27

that point you're probably not sleeping probably you're

1:06:29

a son. in particular because

1:06:32

Yeah. your so.

1:06:34

exactly. Yeah, yeah. so, what do

1:06:36

you begin to you begin to

1:06:38

feel? I think I think had,

1:06:40

I've always struggled with always

1:06:42

struggled being shy is being shy as driven,

1:06:44

like I I still have. I would

1:06:46

say, I would say pretty severe anxiety

1:06:48

now now certain situations, but

1:06:50

I've I've always of kind of able

1:06:53

to ignore it. it. and

1:06:56

just kind of of move on, like probably because

1:06:58

I was so into the videos and stuff.

1:07:00

I was and stuff, I was just so into

1:07:02

that, I could just move everything else aside

1:07:04

if I aside if I was with anything. with It

1:07:06

never became to a point became to a point

1:07:08

where it properly disrupts my life,

1:07:10

I guess, it got until it got to that

1:07:12

point where it was so bad it it

1:07:14

was just all encompassing in my brain, like,

1:07:16

there was there was no There was no this time.

1:07:19

time. There was no pushing aside to focus

1:07:21

on something else. It was just. was just... Yeah,

1:07:24

it's a it's a go -bar. It's

1:07:26

a go -bar? over. Yeah. So when it takes

1:07:28

it takes over. describe what that do

1:07:30

you someone who might what that

1:07:32

is for someone Is this might

1:07:34

be For me, themselves, a

1:07:37

is this taking over I

1:07:39

have any kind me it was

1:07:41

like a mentally, it feels any kind of

1:07:43

Like I'll mentally, it feels like

1:07:46

a spiral, like, to another sport, leads

1:07:48

to another sport, and then keeps going

1:07:50

and and going. going. when it

1:07:52

got to the worst point when

1:07:54

I was point, when I was like so

1:07:56

sad down, like it feels like.

1:07:58

like... a

1:08:01

I'm very visual, so I describe it visually,

1:08:03

but you're stuck at the bottom of that

1:08:05

spiral. you're stuck at the bottom of

1:08:07

that spiral You don't see any you

1:08:09

There's no looking up and being

1:08:11

like I could be up here. There's

1:08:13

nothing above it. up just here. You're

1:08:15

stuck here. it. You're just here. You're stuck

1:08:18

a cartoon character a around with a cloud of...

1:08:20

walks around the whole time. of rain

1:08:22

for them it's all you can

1:08:24

think about. Like just all you can think

1:08:26

about. It's just how hard

1:08:28

finding everything. everything. And

1:08:31

And those are the thoughts. So physically

1:08:33

has that that manifesting. Do you feel

1:08:35

like, are you? you more lethargic?

1:08:37

Are you like you what's happening

1:08:39

happening to you so way so way

1:08:41

more lethargic, I would sleep. Because they

1:08:43

don't want to be to be

1:08:45

that kind of kind of don't to be awake

1:08:47

to think what you're thinking. think what to

1:08:50

go thinking. So go sleep with it

1:08:52

when you wake up kind of thing.

1:08:54

you was tired anyway of thing. I was tired anyway

1:08:56

because new easy to do. So that was

1:08:58

quite easy to do. What not saying that

1:09:00

he wasn't. Do you much in

1:09:02

the day either so it wasn't that terms

1:09:04

of... Yeah, to do that would try to sleep

1:09:06

whenever I could like to had an hour

1:09:08

could. in the evening. had an hour free in

1:09:11

the evening, I would still I

1:09:13

would still elect to go to sleep rather than do

1:09:15

anything else because I just didn't want to be awake. just

1:09:17

didn't want to be awake. Yeah. about

1:09:19

your relationship? Do Do you feel

1:09:21

like like you short in terms

1:09:23

of? in I'm of... Yeah, I'm not

1:09:25

talking about about it either. don't. I don't.

1:09:28

We're in in lockdown, so no, I

1:09:30

can come over can talk to

1:09:32

anyone and can't talk to anyone We have no

1:09:35

help because they physically can't come

1:09:37

over. physically can't come over And

1:09:39

I'm not talking about it because

1:09:41

about it because I Can't use it use

1:09:43

it as a way to protect. like protect My wife

1:09:45

wife, because a a new parent too. to

1:09:47

all of of this is very, even

1:09:49

when you're in the the wellest of of

1:09:51

headspace it's hard. still still the hardest

1:09:53

thing, one of of the hardest things you'll

1:09:55

do, I think, I even if your

1:09:57

head space is good. is good so when it's

1:10:00

Bad I then didn't want to

1:10:02

then offload any of that to

1:10:05

her to kind of protect

1:10:07

her like I didn't want to

1:10:09

talk about it interesting. What were

1:10:11

you protecting her? What did you

1:10:14

think you were protecting your wife?

1:10:16

Just extra stuff to worry

1:10:18

about Pretty much. Yeah, just Offloading

1:10:21

some of my mental baggage to

1:10:23

her. I didn't want her to

1:10:25

have to worry about me as

1:10:28

well. So kept in In the

1:10:30

hardest moments, especially as new parents

1:10:33

or in isolating situations, the instinct

1:10:35

to protect loved ones by carrying

1:10:37

your struggles alone can feel

1:10:39

selfless. But suppressing your emotions only

1:10:42

deepens the burden. True strength and

1:10:44

love lie in leaning on each

1:10:47

other, even when it feels uncomfortable.

1:10:49

Sharing your worries doesn't make

1:10:51

you a burden. It creates space

1:10:53

for deeper connection, mutual support and

1:10:56

healing. reminding you that you're not

1:10:58

alone in facing life's challenges. So

1:11:01

you keep it in, you

1:11:03

keep it in, you keep it

1:11:05

in, and at what point does

1:11:07

it feel like it's a breaking

1:11:10

point? Why breaking point was... Why

1:11:12

breaking point was... Samaritans had

1:11:14

this app thing where you could

1:11:17

like journal... And I wrote down

1:11:19

how I felt that day and

1:11:21

it wasn't good. Like I was

1:11:24

just like, I went out. Like

1:11:26

I don't want to be here

1:11:29

anymore. To type in that out.

1:11:31

You went out of life. Yeah.

1:11:33

I was done. Like I

1:11:35

was that low that I was

1:11:38

done. But writing it out is

1:11:40

very different to thinking it. From

1:11:43

my perspective. Like seeing myself, I

1:11:45

almost felt like I was

1:11:47

watching myself from a third person.

1:11:49

typing myself out and I almost

1:11:52

saw it from like an outside

1:11:54

perspective. I was like, nah, this

1:11:57

is, what are you doing?

1:11:59

I went to my GP, just...

1:12:01

They prescribed me antidepressants straight

1:12:03

went on those, on those. It felt

1:12:06

like a quicker. less involved

1:12:08

fix. Like just take these

1:12:10

these diamonds fixed. Easy. it's not. It's more

1:12:12

it's a, just it's more

1:12:14

of like it. So from that

1:12:16

point, I a bit. talked to

1:12:18

that point, I then talked to my wife and then

1:12:20

she was like. She try

1:12:22

therapy. therapy. found the it like, she made it

1:12:24

so easy for me to then go. So you

1:12:27

didn't you didn't, the didn't get to the point

1:12:29

where you wrote it out? out. I did.

1:12:31

Yeah, I physically wrote it out, but then

1:12:33

reading it back almost felt like it back almost

1:12:35

felt someone else. Someone

1:12:38

else typing. Like it

1:12:40

felt really out of body, like

1:12:43

out of body, like it was strange

1:12:45

because I was was thinking it whole time. time,

1:12:47

but then then reading it

1:12:49

back was different for some

1:12:51

reason. different for reason. you wrote

1:12:53

that, you wrote you recall

1:12:55

the words? the I don't

1:12:58

know And I don't know if... if if

1:13:00

you're comfortable saying what the words were. were.

1:13:02

I remember a brief, I have it saved on

1:13:04

my on my phone actually, like

1:13:06

just, because I didn't want it didn't want

1:13:08

it to go anywhere. I just wanted it

1:13:11

to it to look back it if I wanted I

1:13:13

It was something something like, oh, can I say, can I I

1:13:15

say, I I say Yes, I

1:13:17

want? Yes, It was like I was

1:13:19

like Suicide today. something It was

1:13:21

something like that. it And then it was

1:13:23

literally two sentences, three sentences. was not

1:13:25

long, not but it was like. was like...

1:13:28

Having a -realization of what

1:13:30

you were doing of what you were

1:13:32

doing is... Felt crazy. crazy,

1:13:34

like why are you typing

1:13:37

that? God, I did. So, so I didn't

1:13:39

know this, know I don't think

1:13:41

I've really said it properly, I've

1:13:43

So. it properly, were. So,

1:13:45

you what you were doing

1:13:47

were you were you were Googling how

1:13:49

to take your life. life? Yeah, yeah, Yeah,

1:13:51

I'd I'd done that, yeah. That

1:13:53

day. that day, that day. That day.

1:13:55

Okay. Okay. Okay. I don't... It's

1:13:58

one one of the things I to my my therapies. more

1:14:00

of like fantasies a weird word

1:14:02

to use but it felt like

1:14:04

more of being blunt it felt

1:14:06

like I want to do this

1:14:09

that would be my ideal like

1:14:11

solution to this this brain space

1:14:13

I'm in but having my son

1:14:15

was way more powerful like that

1:14:17

was I could not leave him

1:14:20

that's that's yeah You think your

1:14:22

son is what kept you alive?

1:14:24

Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. See. Yeah.

1:14:26

The power of father. Yeah. It

1:14:28

changes your chemistry. Yeah, completely. It

1:14:31

does. You just. So wow. So

1:14:33

you Google that. And then you

1:14:35

go to the Samaritan's app. Yeah.

1:14:37

They'd done. I wasn't confident enough

1:14:39

to ring. So I think at

1:14:41

the time they only had something

1:14:44

to ring. But because it was

1:14:46

locked down. They were having way

1:14:48

more like an influx of. of

1:14:50

people ringing I think and then

1:14:52

they serve this this app and

1:14:55

I'll say oh I'll check out

1:14:57

and it was just like a

1:14:59

diary like a like a journaling

1:15:01

thing and I was like I

1:15:03

don't even know what maybe try

1:15:06

it I was just like oh

1:15:08

I'll just type and see what

1:15:10

happens and then even now I

1:15:12

feel like if I'm struggling with

1:15:14

anything I just write it and

1:15:17

then it's on the page it's

1:15:19

almost felt like it's left my

1:15:21

my body and my body and

1:15:23

my brain so it It definitely

1:15:25

helps. Journalist is so powerful. So

1:15:27

powerful. So there was a prompt

1:15:30

to help you to express how

1:15:32

you were feeling. That's right. Yeah.

1:15:34

And so you wrote that in,

1:15:36

you save it, but then you

1:15:38

make another life-saving decision and you

1:15:41

tell your wife. Yeah. How does

1:15:43

that conversation happen? I mean, we

1:15:45

know each other on such a

1:15:47

deep level that she knew... Kind

1:15:49

of anyway not to that kind

1:15:52

of extent, but she knew something

1:15:54

was right because my whole domain

1:15:56

has changed so I'm struggling with

1:15:58

everything. I'm sure I'm really I'm

1:16:00

not really like being the I'm

1:16:02

not really like I husband I used to be.

1:16:05

you know what I mean? mean like me on that

1:16:07

level that she knew something was up anyway. that

1:16:09

she knew something was up anyway so the

1:16:12

The conversation felt quite easy because it was almost

1:16:14

like I'd already told her. And then, like I'd what

1:16:17

does she do? and then what

1:16:19

immediately what does she do she hang

1:16:21

like. just you need

1:16:23

to go need to go You

1:16:25

need external help for this. for

1:16:27

this I was pretty I didn't believe

1:16:29

in therapy, I was like how can

1:16:31

this work? I don't understand. How can

1:16:33

someone that knows How can about you? knows zero

1:16:36

about you with your hardest problems.

1:16:38

Like I Like, I I just didn't

1:16:40

understand how it would work. understand how

1:16:42

pessimistic. very like a non Pessimistic, like a

1:16:44

no, it's not work. There's no

1:16:46

way. I doesn't make sense. For

1:16:48

many people, it may take months, It

1:16:50

you know, before they can see

1:16:52

a therapist. it So take that. Yeah. You

1:16:54

know, would imagine they thoughts are still going. Yeah,

1:16:57

probably soften slightly because I'd

1:17:00

actually said them out loud and

1:17:02

had that, that like it felt like an

1:17:04

epiphany kind of, I was seeing it

1:17:06

from was seeing it from the third

1:17:08

person and like oh like there's the of of

1:17:10

stopping that that spiral. like I like I was

1:17:12

still there. there but wasn't going

1:17:14

any any lower okay from that that that one

1:17:16

moment. So be able to talk about

1:17:18

it, in particular to your

1:17:21

wife, that immediately. immediately you some relief.

1:17:23

relief? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I would

1:17:25

imagine also the process of

1:17:27

now engaging with the therapist, a

1:17:29

therapist, them. knowing that there was that there

1:17:31

was some a was a potential even

1:17:33

though you're pessimistic Yeah, there's potentially

1:17:35

there's something on the horizon. Yeah, that

1:17:37

was yeah, that was a yeah, was

1:17:40

I like, a get I was like, okay, this

1:17:42

get to, it's like look forward

1:17:44

to your look forward to almost. you

1:17:46

still? working at this at this number.

1:17:48

You're still recording videos. videos? I don't know because

1:17:50

I announced I would take a know I can't I would

1:17:52

take a break and I can't remember how

1:17:54

long that break was for like the first

1:17:56

It was like the first time I'd ever run I I was

1:17:58

taking a break. a break because I was I was like, oh,

1:18:01

I had a video prepared, my

1:18:03

son was born, like, I'll be

1:18:05

back when I want to be,

1:18:07

basically. But I can't remember how

1:18:09

long that break was for. So

1:18:11

I probably wasn't making videos at

1:18:13

that time. Okay. Okay. So that

1:18:16

was then the first time that

1:18:18

you've stopped making videos since. Completely,

1:18:20

yeah, like a full proper break.

1:18:22

Yeah. When you begin to look

1:18:24

at the drivers. behind the mental

1:18:26

state that you were in? Where

1:18:28

do you think it's coming from?

1:18:31

Because I know it always comes

1:18:33

from multiple places. But where was

1:18:35

it coming from? And did it

1:18:37

have anything to do with you?

1:18:39

Your work? Or stopping your work?

1:18:41

Yeah, that probably was that as

1:18:43

well, because as you slow down,

1:18:45

like there is the element of

1:18:48

the numbers then start going down.

1:18:50

So because you're... not making as

1:18:52

many videos, the numbers go down

1:18:54

anyway. So it was that point

1:18:56

of like, I always had that

1:18:58

fear if I stopped, then it

1:19:00

would all disappear because it's a

1:19:03

fast moving, the internet's fast moving,

1:19:05

so like someone could just, I

1:19:07

felt like I could be forgotten

1:19:09

overnight. So that was like a

1:19:11

driver for making the videos, but

1:19:13

then also a struggle when I

1:19:15

was like, oh, I do need

1:19:17

to slow down. But that fear

1:19:20

of them falling off completely was

1:19:22

quite scary. So you're thinking. that

1:19:24

so what's going down though is

1:19:26

it the like the subscriber right?

1:19:28

Probably views yeah how many subscribers

1:19:30

we're getting per day like that's

1:19:32

when they started introducing so many

1:19:34

more analytical parts of the website

1:19:37

where you could deep dive into

1:19:39

analytics and see what was happening

1:19:41

which is pretty unhealthy. Yeah I

1:19:43

would say so yeah because so

1:19:45

you're you're actively thinking yeah I'm

1:19:47

losing relevance yeah You always are

1:19:49

fearing the point of like falling

1:19:52

off and then you're like, oh,

1:19:54

I'm in that now. It's happening

1:19:56

now, kind of. Okay all right

1:19:58

so all right,

1:20:00

so that's one. yeah

1:20:02

towards it what else that

1:20:04

you've now else that

1:20:06

you yeah what led you to to

1:20:08

being in that mental what led

1:20:10

you to mean in that

1:20:12

mental state? part of it because the I

1:20:15

mean lockdown is a big part of it because

1:20:17

the world was it now what's gonna what

1:20:19

are we doing now? What's gonna

1:20:21

happen afterwards? much time I spent too much

1:20:23

time online seeing what could potentially

1:20:25

happen after lockdown I was like, was like I

1:20:28

I just like, what's the point? If things get

1:20:30

things get really bad, what's the

1:20:32

point? point? So I'm scared scared about that

1:20:34

and also because we had a

1:20:37

new had a new son or a kid, growing

1:20:39

up in a completely different world

1:20:41

was a potential at that point a

1:20:43

potential at that was scary scary. And then almost feeling

1:20:45

like I feeling like I didn't quite know

1:20:47

what I was doing being a parent as

1:20:49

well, I I felt like I should have Like,

1:20:52

should have been more prepared, like, looking

1:20:54

back, I know that no

1:20:56

really prepared. You just kind of. Just

1:20:59

kind of. of get by you, you you learn

1:21:01

on the job kind of thing, which is,

1:21:03

which is which is okay. She I was I

1:21:05

was probably struggling with that, too, because I'm a

1:21:07

perfectionist. don't like getting things wrong, and

1:21:09

then I felt like I was getting things wrong wrong, and

1:21:12

then I felt do I get it right? getting

1:21:14

How do I do this? Yeah, do I get it

1:21:16

right? I see it. I do of sleep. yeah. I

1:21:18

see it. Lack of is

1:21:20

significant, and this is

1:21:22

actually before we had our first child,

1:21:24

first this is the one area that

1:21:26

I truly wish so unsat. both of us

1:21:28

down and said, and you are not

1:21:30

going to sleep. to sleep for

1:21:33

the next several months. I'm glad

1:21:35

you said that because I you

1:21:37

with that a hundred percent. agree people

1:21:39

say it Like, like a joke. almost

1:21:41

like a joke. Yes. comment. a but comment.

1:21:44

Yeah, but it sounds It sounds

1:21:47

awful, but it's like a torture method.

1:21:49

Like it's, if you kept someone awake,

1:21:51

like awake, like you, you are when you

1:21:53

are when you have a child that

1:21:55

doesn't sleep. it's so so difficult to

1:21:57

function. At the same time,

1:21:59

you're looking. after a child. for the

1:22:01

for the first time, It's so so difficult.

1:22:03

So I'm glad you said that. you

1:22:06

have the most incredible responsibility ever that

1:22:08

will ever be presented to you.

1:22:10

It's like, okay, take care. to

1:22:12

you. It's like, no sleep, Yes. You

1:22:15

then you're still maintaining Right. And

1:22:17

then you're still You know,

1:22:19

so life. Yeah. You know, so I'm now your zone,

1:22:21

I see it. Like I remember

1:22:23

how sleep deprived I was. I

1:22:25

was. Yeah. it was it felt like torture.

1:22:27

Yeah, Yeah. It's really hard as well I I

1:22:30

think to what I to the what I was

1:22:32

saying what knows what they're doing already

1:22:34

like my parents have done it So

1:22:36

it must be it's it, so it must like

1:22:38

something fine, does just something everyone

1:22:40

does. Everyone's also, like, once something I really

1:22:42

I really struggled with is is

1:22:44

also telling you you the time how

1:22:46

happy you must be. be, because

1:22:48

you've had had your first child, is

1:22:50

a happy experience. but if you're

1:22:53

you're not feeling that at the moment, it makes you

1:22:55

question it even more. You're like, so why don't

1:22:57

I? like, Why am I am I

1:22:59

not fitting this this way? Yeah, I mean that that

1:23:01

mean, my that was my experience. That was

1:23:03

That was absolutely my experience. It's one

1:23:05

of those where It's Everyone's like, those where

1:23:07

you're right everyone's like oh my gosh you got you're like,

1:23:09

and what is, you literally cannot think,

1:23:11

cannot think I'm going back to that

1:23:13

state now. I don't want to go

1:23:15

back I don't but it was a,

1:23:17

I just remember a cloud. was a I just

1:23:19

I felt like I was - a like

1:23:21

I felt like I was like gear. a down or

1:23:23

like yeah or through mud, kind of. mud

1:23:25

kind of feeling But coming a new

1:23:27

a new parent is one of

1:23:29

the most joyful, yet challenging

1:23:31

transitions, and the and the restlessness sleep

1:23:33

deprivation can feel like a fog

1:23:36

a even a form of torture.

1:23:38

Society often romanticizes the experience to

1:23:40

it harder to admit when you're

1:23:43

struggling, vital but it's vital to

1:23:45

know you're not alone in

1:23:47

feeling overwhelmed, disconnected, or unsure. unsure.

1:23:49

Many share this journey in seeking

1:23:51

support, whether through therapy, open

1:23:54

conversations, or or community help help you

1:23:56

untangle the weight rediscover the the

1:23:58

beauty of his profound responsibility. It's okay

1:24:00

to not have it all figured

1:24:02

out. So all of these pieces

1:24:05

are just layering on top of

1:24:07

each other. Yeah. So you see

1:24:09

the therapist? Yeah. You don't want

1:24:11

to. I don't want to. But

1:24:13

you see the therapist? Sounds like

1:24:16

the therapist also was life-saving for

1:24:18

you. Yeah, she was amazing. Yeah.

1:24:20

I feel like she gave me

1:24:22

the manual to my brain. like

1:24:24

the instruction manual to my brain

1:24:26

of how it works and how

1:24:29

you end up in a certain

1:24:31

space like even now I'm not

1:24:33

actively having therapy now but I

1:24:35

still use everything I've learned to

1:24:37

decipher my own thoughts sometimes be

1:24:40

like oh that's why I feel

1:24:42

that way because of this like

1:24:44

I always say it feels like

1:24:46

I started therapy it felt like

1:24:48

I was on on a road

1:24:50

and then you have all these

1:24:53

like a spaghetti junction in front

1:24:55

of you that's also very foggy

1:24:57

so you choose one at random

1:24:59

and hopefully you don't go backwards

1:25:01

or downwards but with therapy the

1:25:04

fog is lifted and all the

1:25:06

roads are straight and you can

1:25:08

see where the destination is that's

1:25:10

how it feels I think You

1:25:12

know, what type of, do you

1:25:14

know the type of therapy that

1:25:17

you went to? Uh, CBT. Okay,

1:25:19

yeah, cognitive behavioral therapy, yeah, which

1:25:21

is incredibly helpful, you know, and

1:25:23

almost reprogramming, you know, you know,

1:25:25

you know, the mind. And so

1:25:28

it's interesting that you said that

1:25:30

you went for a period of

1:25:32

time. Some people. And many therapists

1:25:34

say you should go for a

1:25:36

specific amount of time and then

1:25:38

I'll hand you the man right

1:25:41

and you go others say no

1:25:43

continue to come in for maintenance

1:25:45

etc. Yeah. Did you you stopped

1:25:47

at a certain point? Yeah. Okay.

1:25:49

Because to be honest I already

1:25:52

came back with like positive experiences

1:25:54

like I came back explaining to

1:25:56

her what she had or taught

1:25:58

me. So like I

1:26:00

just just remember a point where I was like, oh,

1:26:02

actually. like, oh, actually, I've already figured this out.

1:26:04

this out. It just to a to a point where she

1:26:06

didn't have anything to say back. She was like.

1:26:08

it back. She was just let me sit in it

1:26:10

for a second. in it for a second. And I was

1:26:12

with this. I've already dealt my whole thing

1:26:15

was like the divorce was the main. divorce

1:26:17

was main catalyst for my, for my

1:26:19

my mental health issues health for

1:26:21

the worst at all times. for

1:26:23

the worst all times. Right. And then that then

1:26:25

then crept into being a parent as

1:26:27

well. a parent as well. But but

1:26:29

me me down way heavier than it did before.

1:26:31

so I think think therapy, think you you know the reason

1:26:33

for the way you're feeling, but then but then

1:26:35

it helps with. it helps with aspects of

1:26:37

your life rather than rather feeling at

1:26:40

the moment. just feeling at the moment

1:26:42

So you makes you just things about

1:26:44

yourself things about clicks, You feels like. it

1:26:46

puzzle pieces like your brain your life. clicking

1:26:49

I could almost hear the click when almost hear

1:26:51

the click when I When we were talking and

1:26:53

just fit, fit like just fit and made

1:26:55

sense and that's how it... and that's untangle

1:26:57

everything. Yes. Yes. You

1:26:59

can't really You can't really

1:27:02

explain that feeling done therapy

1:27:04

I think think so. why I try to

1:27:06

get I try and get across to

1:27:09

people if they're struggling but yeah I I think

1:27:11

that's an amazing analogy of what

1:27:13

it is. It's like it all

1:27:15

clicks. all clicks know, it's like a

1:27:17

puzzle like a puzzle Yeah, like the pieces

1:27:19

exactly but not in place. but not in

1:27:21

And but place place. it's in it's in place

1:27:23

didn't you have to go back? to

1:27:25

go Weren't you filming? filming YouTube videos

1:27:27

videos going through you were

1:27:29

going through therapy on while

1:27:31

you were on antidepressants. Yeah, yeah.

1:27:33

So how do you, is it, how do you

1:27:36

do that? And do you do it because, or do you do

1:27:38

do you do it where Dan do

1:27:40

you do it in a way

1:27:42

where? of a character at that more

1:27:44

I a character at that point. some of I

1:27:46

think you I some of that. Like know why,

1:27:48

I don't know why. I took up

1:27:50

streaming for some reason reason. while I was I was

1:27:52

sleep and looking after looking after know new child.

1:27:55

I don't know why did it. was like,

1:27:57

my new my new thing to focus was like,

1:27:59

I do this. this. Okay. Because it fit

1:28:01

kind of with the schedule, like

1:28:03

if you slept for a couple

1:28:05

hours in the evening, I could

1:28:07

do it then. So that probably

1:28:10

didn't help. Because then I would

1:28:12

get addicted to the streaming side

1:28:14

and then stay up late, then

1:28:16

have a broken sleep and it

1:28:18

would make everything way worse. So

1:28:20

yeah, don't take up streaming. We

1:28:23

never knew about it. And that's

1:28:25

not a good idea. Like I

1:28:27

probably could have carried on. But

1:28:29

like I am faking to a

1:28:31

point where I was like. almost

1:28:33

pretending to be okay when you're

1:28:36

not and I was being that

1:28:38

so it just got to the

1:28:40

point where I was like I

1:28:42

could just be honest instead just

1:28:44

say this is how I'm feeling

1:28:46

right now instead of acting like

1:28:49

everything is okay so I feel

1:28:51

like that is also a massive

1:28:53

problem the humans have like is

1:28:55

pretending to be okay when you're

1:28:57

not and I was being that

1:28:59

so it just felt a little

1:29:02

bit uneasy. Yeah I've read that

1:29:04

you've stated this where you were

1:29:06

consciously watching others, like there was

1:29:08

a comparison happening. So it wasn't

1:29:10

just your viewership dwindling, it was

1:29:12

seeing the increase of others. Yeah,

1:29:15

because you're always, even unintentionally, you're

1:29:17

still in a competitive space. So

1:29:19

it can be quite competitive. So

1:29:21

you are always... subconsciously comparing yourself

1:29:23

to others yeah yeah yeah and

1:29:25

you were still oh you were

1:29:28

one person operation I mean was

1:29:30

you and your wife at this

1:29:32

point yeah and I did have

1:29:34

an editor at that point but

1:29:36

that was it that was it

1:29:38

yeah okay and then in particular

1:29:41

to is so this is all

1:29:43

happening to you mmm your goal

1:29:45

was never to put this quote-unquote

1:29:47

burden on your wife, but here

1:29:49

it's all out like now from

1:29:52

partners and on antidepressants and therapy

1:29:54

etc. How does that impact your

1:29:56

relationship? For me it felt quite

1:29:58

selfish because you're like like almost

1:30:00

moving the spotlight onto spotlight onto

1:30:02

you be like, oh. he

1:30:05

needs struggling, he needs the attention right

1:30:07

now, which I didn't like, I I

1:30:09

didn't want that. I I just to I

1:30:11

just didn't want to feel that didn't want to feel

1:30:13

that way so it So it felt, was was a bit

1:30:15

of guilt attached to it because I felt like

1:30:17

I I felt like I was taking all of the

1:30:20

I guess. so but if anything it's

1:30:22

just strengthened the anything, it's

1:30:24

just strengthened the relationship because communication

1:30:26

was not my strong point.

1:30:29

Whereas now I feel like I'm way

1:30:31

better with it because in the in in

1:30:33

the tough. Like tough someone who

1:30:35

still struggles to communicate my feelings

1:30:37

correctly. to this day is

1:30:39

still something we're improving on, but I think that is

1:30:41

is still something we're improving

1:30:43

on the foundation for a strong marriage,

1:30:45

if you don't have that. for

1:30:48

a strong marriage It crumbles. don't

1:30:50

do you have? Yeah, what do you have?

1:30:52

What do you have? yeah, How does have? What

1:30:54

do you have? How does gender play

1:30:56

a role in? you were, were. you

1:30:59

know. even talk about to even talk

1:31:01

about you think you were feeling. a Do you

1:31:03

think it does play a role? used

1:31:05

to. I think used to. I

1:31:07

think I'm in interested the

1:31:09

case. But it is, being. in

1:31:11

that case. like I was saying,

1:31:14

I didn't But it is, especially in

1:31:16

that scenario, I was saying, I didn't want to

1:31:18

take anything away from struggles that she was

1:31:20

having as well, as well, like... She's breastfeeding,

1:31:22

she's doing all the feeding

1:31:25

because she's breastfeeding, so I can't.