0:00

Today, we have an exclusive

0:02

conversation with the one and

0:04

only, Telisa, a powerhouse singer,

0:06

Endub's icon and former judge

0:08

on X-Factor. Fresh out of

0:10

the jungle after her unforgettable

0:12

appearance on I'm a celebrity,

0:15

she's sitting down for her

0:17

first in-depth chat since leaving

0:19

the camp. Her story is

0:21

as raw and real as

0:23

it gets. Between her turbulent

0:25

childhood and achieving massive success,

0:27

Talisa has faced relentless criticism,

0:30

endured the fallout from a

0:32

sex tape scandal, survived a

0:34

harrowing drug sting, and battled

0:36

mental health struggles. Her journey

0:38

is a testament to resilience,

0:40

finding her voice and turning

0:42

adversity into empowerment. Let me

0:44

tell you, this conversation was

0:47

so huge, we've had to

0:49

split it into two parts.

0:51

Get ready. This is Talisa.

0:53

like you've never seen her

0:55

before. In this episode, we

0:57

speak about the turbulence Talisa

0:59

experienced in her younger years.

1:02

There's some interesting people watching

1:04

to do in Camden. Like

1:06

every walk of life, every

1:08

type of character, every bit

1:10

of joy, every bit of

1:12

issue, you can find, you

1:14

find in Camden. We look

1:16

back at the early years

1:19

of end-ups. We went from

1:21

the little rinses to NW1,

1:23

which was our postcode. Daphne

1:25

was like, we need to

1:27

switch this to like end-ups

1:29

for sure. So it's N-W

1:31

and that's how end-ups came

1:33

about. And we dive into

1:36

Telisa's views on the importance

1:38

of authenticity. I love podcast.

1:40

It's bringing realness to the

1:42

world. It's bringing authenticity. It's

1:44

bringing authenticity. Yes. Please be

1:46

aware that this episode discusses

1:48

sensitive topics, including sexual assault

1:51

and self-harm. If you're affected

1:53

by anything discussed, we've included

1:55

links in the show notes

1:57

to organizations that can provide

1:59

some... We

2:07

We need to start in Camden.

2:09

In Camden time. I've been to

2:11

Camden. I've had plenty to drink

2:13

in Camden. Have you? Oh my god

2:15

So there's the, like the waterway through there,

2:17

which is one of the, I think,

2:19

the coolest areas of all of London. Yeah.

2:21

Is that water? I do love it,

2:23

it is cool. But what I love to

2:25

do most in Camden is actually people

2:28

watch. Oh really? I love it. and

2:30

some interesting people. watching to do

2:32

in Camden. It's like every walk

2:34

of life. every

2:36

type of character. every bit

2:38

of joy, every bit of issue. can find

2:40

you find in find find Camden find it you

2:42

find what I feel like is it's

2:45

one of those areas of London where

2:47

you see authenticity Yeah, and you don't

2:49

see fabrication and fake agreed I didn't

2:51

ever about it like that. So very, very

2:53

real place It's very diverse but

2:55

extremely real. yes Everyone's very much

2:57

owning their energy in Camden. Yes.

2:59

yeah so is where you were

3:01

born? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So when

3:04

you think about How

3:06

did Camden? shape

3:08

who you've become today.

3:10

God I think it's every

3:13

part of me really Well, I

3:15

guess the diversity. allows

3:17

you to be able to mingle with

3:19

all different types of people because you

3:21

grow up with different types of people from

3:23

all different walks of life, all different kinds

3:25

of experiences. And I

3:27

think back to the friends that

3:29

I grew up with. unfortunately a lot

3:31

of them lived very chaotic lives.

3:33

They had a lot of troubles, you

3:35

know, troubles of parents and at

3:37

home. and So I saw a lot

3:39

more of the chaotic side of

3:41

Camden, the chaos and the drugs and

3:43

the fighting and the drama. But

3:45

there were also a lot of good

3:47

moments, you know. It is an

3:49

incredible place, as you know. A lot

3:52

of fun to be had. and

3:54

was running around drinking Camden from the

3:56

age of 13 with a white

3:58

strike. to

4:00

my fair share of drinking

4:03

in Camden. But yeah,

4:05

I I it's also also

4:07

toughened me a lot. It's

4:09

given me the It's

4:11

given me the ability you could

4:13

go from I guess she

4:15

could 100 100 if need

4:17

be. isn't a isn't a strength we

4:19

should need. better times we do. but

4:21

at times we do. Else musically,

4:24

the the music in Camden

4:26

growing up, up. I think

4:28

back to the old

4:30

culture. and the Miss Dynamite who's

4:32

like also from from

4:35

Camden. the so solid era

4:37

and music was everything to us

4:39

was everything. and breathed

4:41

it 24 7 just was saying before we

4:43

As I was saying I we started, I used

4:45

to have my take that I would

4:47

record these things on pirate radio.

4:49

on pirate radio and so yeah it shaped me

4:51

shaped me I am. I am. I can see it

4:53

like I can see it. Like, I feel

4:55

like there have been some some incredible world-class

4:58

creatives Yeah. come out of

5:01

of out of mean, Amy I mean

5:03

Amy Nuff said. Enough said.

5:05

Nuff said. said. Drop the mic.

5:07

done. the mic. We're question. That's it

5:09

for Camden. for Camden. Next. So So

5:11

you think about, so your

5:13

parents, did they move to

5:15

Camden because of all of what

5:17

you just mentioned or were

5:19

there other reasons? there other well, here's

5:22

the strange thing about my thing

5:24

about my story. So... I was was

5:26

actually we say Camden we say Camden

5:29

because as a group, we're all

5:31

collectively in the Camden the and the

5:33

Camden area. the Camden area. I was a I

5:35

was a little bit more up

5:37

the road, so I was in

5:39

a place called Hampstead, of

5:41

a place called and Queen

5:43

Queen's Crescent, that kind of area. But

5:45

it's all that kind of area, hours,

5:47

all Camden two hours. People growing

5:49

up there, it's like, yeah, we're

5:52

from Camden. Dappy was like central, bang in

5:54

the middle of an estate on

5:56

Camden. So my parents were living

5:58

with my grandparents. my dad's

6:00

parents at the time and we all

6:02

were so me Dappy and his parents

6:04

and my parents living under one roof

6:06

I think to the age of like

6:09

three years old. Oh wow okay yeah

6:11

and then Council Flat became available in

6:13

that area and so that's where they

6:15

went so it would literally it wasn't

6:17

a conscious decision I don't think it

6:19

was just wherever there was that was

6:21

and it was it was a nice

6:24

council flat as far as council flats

6:26

go and you know it could have

6:28

been on a really dodgy estate but

6:30

it was like a conversion house and

6:32

it was a one bedroom which obviously

6:34

wasn't great I had to sleep in

6:37

the same bedroom was my parents to

6:39

the age of nine but it was

6:41

on a decent road it was on

6:43

a nice road and a nice area

6:45

than we could have been in so

6:48

It was, you know... So you slept

6:50

in your parents' bedroom until the age

6:52

of nine? Until the age of nine

6:54

years old. How does that work? I

6:57

mean, there's one bed over here and

6:59

that's mine and then they sleep on

7:01

the other side of the room in

7:03

a double bed. And yeah, it was

7:05

like that to the age of nine

7:07

until my parents got divorced. And then

7:10

my mum moved out into the living

7:12

room so I could have a room

7:14

and we both had our own bedroom.

7:16

It was a part of the cool

7:18

order. that I was, the judge said

7:20

she has to have her own room,

7:23

her own bedroom, so it had to

7:25

happen basically for everything to pan out

7:27

the way that it had. Interesting. Yeah.

7:29

Interesting. So you were with your mother

7:31

early on in life that, I mean,

7:33

clearly the relationship with your mother has

7:36

impacted and shaped who you were to

7:38

this day. Yeah. And it, and it's

7:40

interesting because... you know, the gut says,

7:42

okay, it wasn't a traditional relationship, but

7:44

what relationship is traditional? Yeah. We all

7:47

have unique relationships with our parents. Yeah.

7:49

So how would you describe the relationship

7:51

with your mother, especially early on? Early

7:53

on confusing because because the

7:55

thing thing my my

7:57

mental illness is there

8:00

would be periods

8:02

where she would be

8:04

completely normal. where she would

8:06

be during those periods, she was

8:08

an amazing those periods sweet,

8:10

very kind, very gentle. Very

8:13

funny, funny, funny

8:15

individual. very funny, funny, individual.

8:17

Goofy too. I get my my goofy traits

8:19

from her when I'm in city

8:21

mode. when I'm in city mode and would

8:24

have an episode episode then you

8:26

would see the the switch up and

8:28

she would she would completely

8:31

someone else. else. And in the

8:33

early stages. I think I was

8:35

I think I was so

8:37

besotted with my mother. people are,

8:39

people. just and it

8:41

would I just loved her

8:43

devastation. I just loved her so much and

8:45

it was really so destroying that one

8:48

minute she was was and then the next

8:50

minute she wasn't. was just very

8:52

confused. wasn't, I was just very

8:54

As I got older, as

8:56

I older, I just to very

8:58

much detach. much detach. And and

9:00

then it just just burden this I

9:02

was forced to live

9:04

with. with. So there wasn't there

9:06

wasn't much of a relationship. just

9:08

wanted to just wanted to

9:10

get out. I wanted to get older.

9:13

enough to leave as soon did as

9:15

soon as I was really a

9:17

wasn't really a Once Once

9:19

that switch happened after her being

9:21

being hospitalized so many

9:23

times times and her her becoming

9:25

another person, I think think as

9:27

a... protection mechanism, I I to shut

9:29

down almost my love for

9:31

her her it was too much

9:33

to bear. the switching. You know, it's

9:36

like one You know, it's like one minute you've

9:38

got. mum best mum in the world you'll

9:40

have everything The next minute she thinks

9:42

you're a a demon. a demon. So

9:44

trying to to comprehend that,

9:46

my mind just like almost

9:48

like like this isn't real. Right. So

9:50

she was was diagnosed,

9:52

it's schizoaffective. Yes, she was

9:55

was misdiagnosed up until the age

9:57

of I was was 17, she

9:59

was diagnosed. as bipolar. And then

10:01

when I was 17, they

10:03

were like, oh, we've made a

10:05

mistake. She is schizo effective.

10:07

She has schizophrenia and bipolar combined.

10:10

At which point they changed her

10:12

medication. And then she stopped having the

10:15

episodes. The last episode she had

10:17

was when I was 17. She

10:19

stopped having the episodes and then just

10:21

became this kind of not there.

10:23

They basically just numbed the hell

10:25

out of her in every way or

10:27

form. So then you don't see

10:29

manic schizo affected

10:31

mom, but you also don't see

10:34

normal mom either. So she's just some

10:36

reduced version of herself. Yeah, just

10:38

completely. So you were what 11 when

10:40

you became primary carer for your

10:42

mother. Is that true? Well, it's once

10:44

my dad left when I was

10:46

nine. It was just me and her

10:48

in the house. So I mean,

10:50

I say I'm called a carer, but

10:52

I only did what I was

10:54

capable of doing. It's not like I

10:56

woke up one day and someone

10:58

gave me a certificate and said, you're

11:00

now caring for your mom. There

11:03

was just a natural way in the

11:05

home. And even I think about

11:07

it, and I think a carer was

11:09

I really a carer? I

11:11

mean, if my mom had an

11:13

issue, then I would step in

11:15

when she's her mind is starting

11:17

to crumble. But

11:19

generally I felt more rebellious, if

11:22

anything, I was constantly running away,

11:24

constantly running away from home, wanting

11:26

to be out all night, running

11:28

the streets, doing everything to get

11:30

away. I was a very rebellious

11:32

child and I felt extremely suffocated. So

11:36

there were moments when I had to

11:38

step up that I would do that.

11:40

But I spend most of my childhood

11:42

just trying to run away. What do

11:44

you think you were running away from?

11:46

So in that example where you say,

11:48

if there was a moment where I

11:50

had to step up or step in

11:52

and really become that carer, what's an

11:54

example of a moment? So like I

11:56

can recall coming home from school one

11:58

day and I can't get in. and

12:01

I And I don't know how I was

12:03

outside for for like hours I don't know how know

12:05

how managed to get in. I think I

12:07

had to walk to an aunt's house,

12:09

I had to find a key had to I

12:11

get in how my mom's just sat on

12:13

the floor and she's been sat there

12:15

for God knows how many hours. and She's

12:17

not coherent, she's not speaking. how many She's just

12:19

rocking, not coherent she's not speaking gone to

12:21

the toilet rocking sat the floor has gone

12:23

to the in it herself. and then on the

12:25

floor and she's in it that moment,

12:27

I would, of course, have course

12:29

have to try and get get her

12:31

up off the floor, try and get

12:34

her into the bath, try and get her

12:36

some fresh clothes, get her to dress,

12:38

call the hospital. her to say she's having an

12:40

episode, I need someone to come in. having

12:42

an her to which they'd say,

12:44

oh, to come and we don't have

12:46

any beds. they say oh we've we I'd say,

12:48

well, what am I supposed to

12:50

do? I'd say well And wait until. to

12:53

do and know, someone you

12:55

know it seriously. it

12:57

seriously That's extraordinary responsibility for

12:59

a nine -year -old, 10

13:01

-year -old, 11 -year -old. Yeah.

13:03

eleven-year-old. Yeah, don't think it

13:05

felt that way at the time, that it just my life.

13:07

way at the time, I didn't know anything else. just

13:10

my life. I What about others? else.

13:12

What about family members, your

13:14

father. Your father? There There was

13:16

a lot of conflict. It wasn't a good

13:18

breakup between my mum and dad. So it

13:20

was very much. dad, so it was very was

13:23

like, oh, you can come. oh, you can with me.

13:25

me. And so I I stayed with mom,

13:27

there was this kind of divide between them.

13:29

of time with my dad was my time

13:31

with my dad. My time my mom was

13:33

my time with my mom. my time with my dad

13:35

my time with my I had

13:38

aunts that did help a help

13:40

a lot through my younger

13:42

years, but times times was really too

13:44

young was really too young so I had

13:46

an when my mum would get I would

13:48

go and live with her. go and for

13:51

long periods of time. long

13:53

periods of But there there was

13:55

a A period I think I felt quite

13:57

alone, maybe it was when I was

13:59

around around like 14. there was this distance among

14:01

the family and it really felt

14:03

like anyone was there and that

14:05

for me was the hardest time

14:08

but that's very much change now

14:10

like my aunt cares she does

14:12

everything for my mom in terms

14:14

of I'm I'm not there in

14:16

that sense at all okay so

14:18

that dynamic has very much change

14:20

so sectioned just so that I

14:23

fully understand is when you were

14:25

section specifically what What does that

14:27

mean? So my mom getting sectioned,

14:29

it's like she is out of

14:31

control and they have to beyond

14:33

her once take her in hospital

14:35

and keep her there against her

14:37

wishes that she can't leave. She's

14:40

legally sectioned to the hospital because

14:42

she is a danger to herself.

14:44

She's a danger to others and

14:46

of course a danger to me.

14:48

And these are some of these

14:50

calls you had to make. Yeah.

14:52

To be like. help. I would

14:54

imagine this has happened from nine

14:57

or the way. But at nine

14:59

it must be the earliest incidents

15:01

of this. Oh no, it started

15:03

from when I was born. My

15:05

earliest recollection is from like four

15:07

years old when I'm being dragged

15:09

away and sectioned. At four you

15:11

recall that? Yeah, I can recall.

15:14

What impact? I don't know. It's

15:16

too young to take it in.

15:18

I remember my parents screaming the

15:20

house down. I remember rocking in

15:22

between a bin and a cooker.

15:24

I remember police turning up. and

15:26

I remember my mom being dragged

15:28

away and screaming her head off,

15:31

screaming my name, and then I

15:33

remember a police officer sat with

15:35

me, just not really knowing what

15:37

to say, and that was it.

15:39

I didn't really get the opportunity

15:41

to feel until I got older.

15:43

Okay. How do you process as

15:45

a four-year-old? When I often times

15:48

think about processing something, I think,

15:50

okay, what would I then tell

15:52

myself at that point? So what

15:54

would you... Tell Telisa at four,

15:56

seeing your mother being taken away

15:58

by the police. I

16:00

feel feel like what it is for

16:03

like this is what it is for

16:05

like this answer would disappoint people. I'm a

16:07

very tough love person kind and

16:09

really kind with my friends with

16:11

my friends and be really gentle, everyone comes

16:13

to me, I'm the comes but when it comes

16:15

to myself, I am it comes

16:17

to really really, really

16:20

tough love. So I would would

16:22

probably quite literally say, say, listen,

16:24

this is is crap. It's going to gonna

16:26

get worse. I just need you to hang

16:28

on in there. there. Like, that's it.

16:30

just need just need to be an

16:32

absolute soldier. you I need you to be

16:34

a weapon. Remember you are are the biggest beast

16:36

in every room. There are are no

16:39

demons out there. bigger than you. Yes. And that's

16:41

why I that's what I would say to

16:43

myself. get it together, get it

16:45

together, to you're gonna survive. I ask this is, why

16:47

Can I ask this that will do

16:49

you think that will people? I don't people.

16:52

that's know. The harsh to a bit to a to

16:54

a four -year -old. It's not not everyone's.

16:56

necessary like me in the way

16:58

that I speak to the way that I speak to you

17:01

still do. And I I think

17:03

there's going to be a common

17:05

theme across your life as

17:07

to that that story a I

17:09

show you something? Yeah, a little

17:11

surprise for you. Yeah, you

17:14

ready for this? Yeah, I show you something?

17:16

Yeah. A little surprise for you. Yeah. You're ready for this?

17:18

Yeah. I'm excited now. Ready? All right. like

17:20

a right. We're going to see. Wait for

17:22

to drop down. It's

17:24

coming. drop ready. It's right, cool. I

17:27

your eyes. Close your eyes. All

17:29

right. cool. Okay. Close eyes. don't

17:31

open it, don't open eyes. And when

17:33

you open it, what I want

17:35

you to tell me no, no, no, is

17:37

the first thought that comes to mind

17:39

when you see this? it, what ready?

17:41

All right, take a look. what

17:43

is the first thought that

17:45

comes think in the

17:47

when you the weather is

17:50

Okay, ready. All right, take a look. It's

17:52

the first thought. It's the first other

17:54

thoughts? Any other thought is,

17:56

is thought is, is that that's not

17:58

not actually my dad. So where

18:00

people have got it twisted is that

18:02

my dad was in the band

18:04

later. So Manga Jerry, when they were

18:06

at their peak, they did their

18:09

thing. Manga Jerry is a band. And

18:11

then Manga hired my dad and

18:13

my uncle later, much later down the

18:15

line, to tour with him. So

18:17

he wasn't actually a part of the

18:19

original band like that. Because since

18:21

I've come out of the jungle, I've

18:23

seen this everywhere. like, Talisa was

18:26

a Nipo baby and I was like,

18:28

no, no, no. It didn't happen

18:30

that way. No, it didn't happen that

18:32

way. So your father was a

18:34

musician. Yeah. Okay. Keyboardist, right? Yeah. All

18:36

right. Same with your uncle, although

18:38

your uncle was a bass player. Bass

18:40

guitar. Bass guitar. All right. And

18:42

so they became members of Manga Jerry.

18:45

But before that, it sounds like

18:47

they were trying to do their own

18:49

thing. Yes. So

18:52

my grandfather in the

18:54

country was a diplomat for

18:56

the United Nations. A

18:58

very wealthy man, very

19:00

wealthy family. And

19:03

my dad and my uncle were the

19:05

rebels. And my grandfather had said to

19:07

them, look, you can do everything I

19:09

do. You can have all of this,

19:11

but you need to go through school.

19:13

You need to learn this. You need

19:15

to do that. You need your degree.

19:17

And you live the same life. And

19:19

they said, no, we're not doing it.

19:21

We want to be musicians. And my

19:24

grandfather was, I think he's a very

19:26

wise man. I would have taken the

19:28

same approach. He gave them a small

19:30

amount of money, which was enough for

19:32

them to buy. Had this little room

19:34

in Dollars Hill. Okay. And set up

19:36

studio equipment. And then he said, right,

19:38

on your way. Do

19:40

you? And that's it. Yeah. And

19:42

I'm cutting you off now. No, not

19:45

cutting off emotionally. Oh, yeah. But

19:47

financially. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So there's always

19:49

been conflict in stories. Oh, my

19:51

grandfather was a diplomat. Well, yeah, I

19:53

would have a great summer when

19:55

I'd go to Greece, but I would

19:57

still, you know, go back to

19:59

a one bed council. of so that's

20:01

where I think the confusion is

20:03

about the story, but it

20:05

was very fascinating for me

20:08

to see those two walks

20:10

of life. and understand.

20:13

gave me a lot of knowledge and

20:16

understanding of. people, different people. I

20:18

also had my grandparents come to me

20:21

and say, you can live this life.

20:24

you do the same thing. You can come out here,

20:26

you can live with us, we'll put you through

20:28

boarding schools. And to which I just

20:30

wondered, I'm not going to leave my mother. Yeah

20:36

So you had an opportunity to

20:38

live the life. Yeah, I

20:40

thought we would have been a

20:42

doctor by now Isn't that

20:44

interesting? I know So thoughts so

20:46

you definitely are your father's

20:48

daughter A hundred percent. black. It's like, it's

20:50

horrific. I remember like my dad getting

20:52

called into schools, like back in the day

20:54

and they were saying, right, your daughter's

20:57

done this. She bumped off and then we

20:59

caught her you know, smoking in the

21:01

back toilet and His response was literally,

21:03

she's her father's daughter. Yeah,

21:05

that's it. Yeah, That's it. So

21:07

financially your father. with

21:09

struggling. Yeah, okay. But

21:11

he was a grafter, Like don't get it twisted.

21:13

And I always had some of the fresh trainers

21:15

on my feet. He made sure of that.

21:17

I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure. But he is,

21:19

mean, especially, you know, listen, let's face it,

21:21

like musicians, especially. It's not what people

21:23

think, like, it is not at

21:26

all, especially in them times

21:28

and playing in a band behind

21:30

the scenes. and you're not the

21:32

front singer, or you haven't done

21:34

the writing, Right. it work like that?

21:36

It's hard. So So financially, this

21:38

makes sense Yeah. it was incredibly challenging.

21:40

Yeah. I think it's important to

21:42

set that stage because without the finances,

21:44

right, the support that parents, the

21:46

don't have the tools that they need

21:49

for their children. Yeah. So what

21:51

ends up happening is children have to

21:53

fend for themselves. And that's what

21:55

it sounds like you had to do.

21:57

Yeah. well, I mean, financially, my dad

21:59

always supported me and had my pocket

22:01

money and you know what I needed to

22:03

go to school and eat and do

22:05

whatever I needed to do. But

22:09

We basically weren't, you know, rich. There were times when they were

22:11

both on benefits and there were times when, you know, my dad

22:13

had been keeping a lot and then he'd have. a little

22:15

bit more extra go around. But

22:18

generally, I think when I

22:21

hit 15, I

22:23

was like, I need money. And that's

22:25

when I went out and got... A

22:27

job. Okay. Yeah. But

22:29

as far as the emotional support,

22:32

feel as if your father was there

22:34

for you. Ah

22:36

Listen, Listen,

22:38

me and my dad's relationship has not

22:40

been a conventional one,

22:42

as we always say, what is. and

22:46

I I would say

22:48

and my dad. Now

22:51

we're just more friends that

22:53

kind of have an understanding. of

22:56

Hope one another. Do

23:02

Do you feel as if he supported your mother? enough.

23:07

Hey I I

23:09

feel like there's certain

23:12

things that I

23:14

can't go into because

23:16

of family. wanting

23:20

to protect family, you

23:23

know. Which which is fair Yeah. you

23:25

know I don't want to

23:27

sit and say things and

23:29

my grandmother. Do you know

23:31

what I mean? Be upset about anything that

23:33

I'm... saying. saying.

23:35

Okay. That's fair. Yeah. You know,

23:37

it's interesting with every guest

23:39

that comes. I

23:41

always spend. moments talking

23:44

about. their parents or their

23:46

first caregivers and the love

23:48

that they had or lack

23:50

of love that they had

23:52

because that forms our attachment.

23:54

And I know that you've

23:56

done some work on or

23:58

at least that you've done the

24:00

reading and you're familiar with

24:02

this, but our attachment really

24:05

does form from that. So

24:07

when you look back now

24:09

just as a, as a,

24:11

as a assessing your attachment,

24:13

what do you, what attachment

24:15

do you believe you landed

24:17

on as a result of

24:19

your upbringing? None. That was

24:21

the problem. I became very,

24:23

very detached. and I remained

24:25

very, very detached from most

24:27

of my life. I never

24:29

zoned in on particular bonds.

24:32

I was someone that was

24:34

very loving, full of love,

24:36

very sweet, very sensitive on

24:38

the inside. Even though I

24:40

had this really tough exterior,

24:42

I'm a sop internally. But

24:44

when it came to individual

24:46

bonds, I'm really creating love.

24:48

I don't feel like I

24:50

ever knew what love was

24:52

and I don't think I

24:54

ever felt love until probably

24:57

recent years and I found

24:59

that in friends, I learned

25:01

love much later in my

25:03

life. Very detached individual and

25:05

the same friends that I

25:07

have now, the people that

25:09

I've built the love I

25:11

have with, they would sit

25:13

here and say this like

25:15

it took 10 years to

25:17

get her. or any kind

25:19

of vulnerability from me, I

25:21

am so blessed to have

25:24

those individuals in my life

25:26

to teach me love. I

25:28

learned love and they taught

25:30

me it. But you've learned

25:32

it now? No. But early

25:34

on? No. You know, when

25:36

you talk about not having

25:38

an attachment, that's normally framed

25:40

as an avoidant. Have you

25:42

heard about these different styles?

25:44

Everything that I read and

25:46

see about you, I'm like,

25:49

Teresa's avoid. Yeah. She's prototype

25:51

avoid. Like prototype. Like, prototype.

25:53

Like, you are the perfect

25:55

avoided. To the the

25:57

point where

25:59

you could see

26:01

how this is is the

26:03

reason why you are so self -reliant. Why

26:06

were so much of a

26:08

rebel? of a rebel? someone is of

26:10

wind, they is early on in

26:12

life that the only person life that

26:14

rely on is can rely on is

26:16

who? Me. And then this manifests

26:18

itself. But I'm But

26:20

I'm curious though, sometimes when

26:23

we start off as as or

26:25

anxious or more secure. secure, we're secure.

26:27

We then... fall in

26:29

love romantically, early on Interesting,

26:31

I know where you're know where you're

26:34

getting me take me there. I mean take I

26:36

did. I I was, I guess,

26:38

in a sense. I don't believe it

26:40

was real don't believe it was

26:42

real love. I would fantasy with in

26:44

the fantasy with the right individual well this

26:46

is well, this is love. This will

26:48

take me away from the lack of

26:50

love that I'm feeling. So

26:53

I definitely had some

26:55

intense relationships a very

26:57

young age. All right. Was

26:59

All right. beginning of you

27:01

becoming beginning of you becoming

27:04

sexually active? like just this

27:06

was had lost my I had

27:08

lost my Can we we talk

27:10

about losing your virginity? virginity? Okay. We

27:12

like to go there like to go

27:15

there. Because that informs a lot informs, a

27:17

lot of us I talk, I think,

27:19

enough about losing our virginity. Okay.

27:21

And typically... the The

27:24

satisfaction or lack of

27:26

satisfaction that we

27:28

have in that first

27:30

experience informs our

27:32

subsequent subsequent Complete lack of. Complete

27:35

lack of nothing. Nothing going

27:37

going down China. Nothing, not at

27:40

all. at all. was just, I think

27:42

from it was just, I think

27:44

from that moment this decided a was just

27:46

a form of showing affection. I

27:50

I never got the physical

27:52

pleasure aspect until way, way,

27:54

way, way way like I I was one of

27:56

the lost people. last people that I knew

27:58

to lose while I was in here. Did

28:00

do that. be being one of the

28:02

last. last, did Did that add any pressure? pressure?

28:05

Sometimes, I think, I

28:07

remember I

28:09

think. arguments, well,

28:12

I remember getting fights with

28:14

girls, and there would

28:16

be a thing where fights with

28:18

girls girls' there would

28:20

be a thing where so

28:22

if to take of the girls

28:24

had a lot of the girls had

28:26

already lost their virginity. certain

28:29

guys would pay me more would pay

28:31

me more attention was like I

28:33

was last of the last it

28:35

was like a So it was

28:37

like a competition thing and

28:39

the girls. back of it once I

28:41

actually got attacked

28:44

off someone that had taken someone's Virginia

28:46

had taken that was or that was

28:48

sleeping was then going out and taking

28:50

me on dates on to trying to call

28:53

me to would you Virginia So

28:55

yeah, I guess in guess in a sense

28:57

it caused, I I wouldn't drama. it

28:59

as a result. As a result. Yeah.

29:01

You look you look at the games

29:03

that play play, you ask yourself

29:06

why. why. Yeah. You know, what would

29:08

you tell tell Fortole to Lisa? same

29:10

thing every goddamn

29:12

time, damn time, keep your shit together,

29:14

survive, you're gonna get for you

29:16

this, this. Don't fear fear anything. There's

29:19

nothing for you to be scared of. There's nothing to

29:21

be scared of. Yeah. Yeah. Look at at this. say I always

29:23

say you're the biggest demon in the room. of demons, I'm

29:25

you get scared of with the light on this day. Do afraid

29:27

of the dark. stems from sleeping the same sleep with the light

29:29

would to this day. on you they came to bed. I think

29:31

this stems from with the light the same room as

29:33

my parents. on them They would always leave the light

29:35

on until they came to bed. I can feel So feel

29:38

I'm alone, I can feel I can't sleep with the light

29:40

off. I can feel like I can feel like I can feel like I can feel like

29:42

I spiritual person, I can sometimes when I'm in I

29:44

dark, I feel like I can feel things. And

29:46

I always say to myself, feel like I can feel like can

29:48

feel demon in this room bigger than you. bigger than

29:50

that I walk around I a around as a

29:52

demon, the inner beast that is there

29:54

to tap into if you need

29:56

it, it. and that's always my motto. Yes. I

29:58

tell people. people. When did you think

30:01

spirituality first entered your life? Oh,

30:03

right from the beginning. your life?

30:05

Oh, from the beginning. the we're

30:07

talking like. Right from the beginning.

30:09

We're want to like, I want

30:11

to say six, seven years

30:14

old Okay, early. Mm. Both

30:16

my Both my parents' my

30:18

families and my mum

30:20

were very religious. I didn't

30:22

quite so I don't

30:24

quite understand my spirituality yet,

30:26

but I used to have an

30:28

icon of Mother Mary. above my my

30:30

And one night I could hear my

30:33

parents And one night as they could

30:35

hear my I can at it as they

30:37

would and I can hear like screaming

30:39

and getting really loud and then I

30:41

was on my bed and I in bed

30:43

like rocking I I praying and I'm like

30:45

please mother and I'm Mary please make a

30:47

stop please make a stop. please make a stop.

30:49

doing this for doing long. not It went

30:52

from went from like what sound

30:54

is like his silence. silence.

30:56

But it was scary where

30:58

I I thought something

31:00

was wrong. wrong. So I

31:03

freaked out. remember, like through

31:05

the I remember the floor the hallway

31:07

on the floor in through the

31:09

gap in the door of I

31:11

thought one of them was

31:14

maybe. here anymore because of this

31:16

quickness of the... of the

31:18

quiet. then I saw

31:20

my my parents arm in arm.

31:23

Like that smiling, madly in love,

31:25

love just didn't make any sense. didn't

31:27

make any And then that was

31:29

the first time that I was

31:31

I was like There's something more

31:34

here something is protecting

31:36

me or guiding me. a very

31:38

young a very young age and it's one of

31:40

the things that enabled me to survive, probably

31:42

most of. what I've survived

31:45

because of what I've survived though

31:47

I've been very alone, I've never. been

31:49

very at that. That's

31:51

profound. alone. I That's profound. At

31:54

At six, you became attached

31:56

to spirituality.

31:59

spirituality and... That was

32:01

your comfort. Yeah, very much. And

32:03

as well, after something like that

32:05

happening, I was like, you've got

32:08

me. So I always felt like

32:10

something had me, and wasn't in

32:12

the conventional sense, but there was

32:14

something else that had me. That

32:17

was protecting. Yeah, that would make

32:19

sure I was going to be

32:21

okay. Yeah, but you still waver

32:24

when you have so many experiences.

32:26

So it wasn't solidified. But I

32:28

can remember specific moments where it

32:31

literally got me through and I

32:33

believed, you know, I had this

32:35

real guardian level of spiritual protection

32:37

behind me. Yes. And then I'd

32:40

have some bad moments and then

32:42

I'd, you'll lose faith. Even though

32:44

I'd been shown like literally miracle

32:47

level things throughout my life. This

32:49

is helpful. for us to be

32:51

aware of. Yeah. Because for so

32:54

many of us, spirituality enters much

32:56

later in life. Yeah. I'm talking

32:58

about 78. Yeah, I know. I

33:00

know, I know. So then how

33:03

do you reconcile some of these

33:05

challenges early on? I know that

33:07

there was a sexual assault that

33:10

happened early. Weirdly, that experience for

33:12

me, I've taken the knowledge from

33:14

it, but I have very much

33:16

detached. from that experience. I'd say

33:19

there's other things. People don't know

33:21

that I'm slightly more still hold

33:23

feelings towards. Not everything's in that

33:26

book. But I guess that's the

33:28

only thing I really touched on.

33:30

But for me, it's actually quite

33:33

low on the list, to be

33:35

honest. But I mean, just to

33:37

mention this, because you did write

33:39

about this in the book, honest.

33:42

What happened? I was out with

33:44

a group of boys from my

33:46

area who I'd known for years

33:49

was friends with and I remember

33:51

seeing one of them they had

33:53

something in their drink and it

33:56

was fizzing and I instantly thought

33:58

oh god like they're

34:00

taking taking drugs, what putting in

34:02

there and I in there? And him and I was

34:04

like, and I please, please please, put anything in

34:06

my drink. I was like, I'm super sensitive

34:08

at the time I'd started having like because

34:11

at the off the back of just having like, I was

34:13

like, I can't take it either of just weed. please

34:15

I put any drugs I can't he was like,

34:17

no, no, I'd never do that. I'd never do that. don't

34:19

And then as the night went. in my drink. And

34:21

it was like, no, no, I'd never do

34:24

that, I never is going

34:26

on as the night went on. Next be,

34:28

you know, I just remember flashes of being in a... flashes

34:30

of being just seeing the lights, the

34:32

street the lights, the I must have been

34:35

lying back So I must my eyes for

34:37

a second lying back street lights, street lights

34:39

open then obviously waking

34:41

up in seeing then yeah,

34:44

the rest is history.

34:46

streetlights. And then obviously waking up

34:48

in a room and the following

34:50

day. rest is in the

34:52

book next, the following day, in the mother.

34:54

wrote that his mother is...

34:56

you tea. a T. Yeah. She's unaware.

34:59

unaware, I'm assuming. She's unaware. unaware.

35:01

is unaware. She is unaware. She is

35:04

unaware. Yeah. That her son

35:06

is sexually assaulted

35:08

you. assaulted you. Yeah. report

35:10

this. You didn't You didn't

35:12

report this. to didn't mention that to her. You

35:14

didn't report it. it. If you were

35:16

to if you were to go back. you have

35:19

would you have reported it? Knowing knowing what

35:21

you know today. today. I

35:27

I think I probably would have attacked him. have

35:30

so I wouldn't have been able so I wouldn't have

35:32

been able to report it.

35:34

probably would have punched the crap out of him. truth.

35:36

All right. And not wanted to report it because I would have got in

35:38

trouble. the I would have done. out

35:40

of him. Oh That's the truth. I did

35:42

some research, to that went out of

35:44

because I would have within the UK.

35:47

There what I would have done. Okay.

35:50

That's the happens. some This

35:52

is incredibly prevalent, out know

35:54

to this day know,

35:56

to this day. not someone

35:59

when I feel hurt or

36:01

to the corner, a goes

36:03

to self to self-blame. I blame to

36:05

him. and through. through.

36:07

I didn't look at one

36:09

bit of my my think, what

36:11

could I have done what could I

36:14

That is all. differently? That you yet

36:16

had a relationship Yep. Have yet

36:18

like you were. that

36:20

you feel like you were had

36:22

one when I was, I was,

36:25

had one when I to 13 13.

36:27

with a boy boy called Carlos he

36:29

was like my he was like

36:31

my first lover. This is

36:33

before intimacy and he was he was

36:35

a beautiful. beautiful soul, and he

36:37

was like a sweetheart and

36:39

it was a very happy

36:42

time. time with him, with him. unfortunately

36:45

end well. I mean you know. Yeah, of

36:47

course. of what it is. what

36:49

it is, but so I'd had one. Okay.

36:52

then obviously I went straight onto I went

36:54

straight onto the... guy who had his

36:56

own place. Mm own place so

36:58

yeah I'd had two two

37:00

sides of two sides of

37:03

the spectrum two sides

37:05

of the spectrum. I see, I see.

37:07

I see I see right. can we stay

37:09

with boys for a second? boys for a

37:12

second yeah okay so 16 after

37:14

16 16 the next

37:16

with the next relationship that

37:18

have. have so me and

37:20

my bandmate, Faiza. phase always

37:23

had this. this on and off

37:25

thing. in between relationship. So feel like

37:27

in a way, a way, is kind of

37:29

present all the way from the age

37:31

of the way from the way up. So

37:33

he's always the way and then he's in a

37:35

relationship with someone else, but then it's

37:37

I'm in a again. So he's

37:39

also present. else, but then it's

37:41

from that. again. So he's also

37:44

Then aside from that, is, who

37:47

is, yeah, an yeah, an ex -boyfriend

37:49

of mine mine. probably one of

37:51

my most serious. most serious up.

37:54

Okay, growing up. Okay. Yeah, and and how

37:56

long and in what happened to that

37:58

relationship? that relationship? started

38:00

when I was was 16. He

38:02

was like, he was a UK

38:04

rapper was time he

38:07

was hadn't got any at the

38:09

time, So and I hadn't got any

38:11

success, so he was like one. He was

38:13

one. bit was a little bit older than me.

38:15

I had lied to him about my age.

38:18

Oh, did age. Oh, I did. you? he

38:20

didn't know, I think. He thought

38:22

know. I think he thought he thought

38:24

I 17, or know, I told

38:26

him a poor key. I told

38:28

him a porkie. I was was very

38:30

besotted with him. we kind of casual

38:33

dated. I of he didn't really I

38:35

felt like he didn't really

38:37

take me too seriously me, but I

38:39

I know he liked me,

38:41

like he was I didn't feel like he

38:43

was taking me seriously. And then then I

38:45

was really coming into my becoming a woman

38:47

stage of my life. he So he was

38:49

kind of with me through this transition

38:51

where I went for this kind for this

38:54

a little bit nerdy, kind

38:56

of half kind of half goofy, bit naive to...

38:58

a about us. and then during

39:00

then transition it's like

39:02

that transition, it's like I

39:04

just woke up one

39:06

day and then the transition happened of

39:08

me then the transition

39:10

happened. of me so of not him

39:12

not taking me so seriously yes yes all

39:14

right I like it I like it and you said

39:16

the right, all right, I like

39:19

it, I like it. kind and out

39:21

yeah and of in and out. was

39:23

in that was out I as like

39:25

safety blanket as my safe That's phase

39:27

safe face with a What I find interesting,

39:29

so there was something that I find

39:31

you said or wrote here.

39:34

something that was or wrote correct me if I'm

39:36

wrong on this. that, that

39:38

you wish you had

39:40

lost your virginity lost

39:42

your virginity to Break that down for

39:44

that. That's a strong statement. for, that's

39:46

a strong statement. Yeah. Because

39:48

he was the person that

39:50

the person me. me. the only the

39:53

only person that deserved it. it. You know, because

39:55

that know because that is real day. We to this

39:57

day. We love each other like family if it's not

39:59

romantic any any. more. That's my family.

40:01

That's my soul family. And the

40:03

person that I've become doesn't want

40:05

anyone in my life other than

40:08

soul family, especially not when it

40:10

comes to intimacy. And that's what

40:12

I'm like now to this day.

40:14

It has to be soul family

40:16

energy. If it's not, it's not

40:19

for me. So he's the only

40:21

person, you know, looking back then

40:23

that you mean something now. To

40:25

it. Why do you think it

40:28

didn't? remain romantic. Incompatibility, we're just

40:30

incompatible. There's a lot of love

40:32

there. I feel as if it

40:34

was inevitable. You have two people

40:36

that are so close. They're like

40:39

family clothes, they're like friendship clothes,

40:41

and then they have an attraction

40:43

there, and they're constantly around each

40:45

other. They can't get away from

40:48

each other. It's inevitable. So we

40:50

just had to go through it

40:52

to grow through it. But after

40:54

being in a relationship, we're very

40:56

different human beings. Very, very different.

40:59

And that's really what it comes

41:01

down to. I see it. I

41:03

see it. That's fair. That's fair.

41:05

That's fair. And I think knowing,

41:07

having gone through the trials and

41:10

tribulations together. Yeah. Because you really,

41:12

I think you truly know someone,

41:14

not in the good times. No.

41:16

But you know them in the

41:19

bad times. Yeah. We need to

41:21

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43:17

Faiser clearly. is one-third

43:20

of of, say now one of my new now

43:22

one of my new favorite groups. bit

43:24

of even getting getting down to to Yeah

43:26

in the in the have I?

43:28

For end-ups let me tell let me tell

43:31

you something, this is gonna sound like

43:33

like now a super fit. fair I

43:35

this. Go hit me around. hit me around is

43:37

All right, I don't want to All

43:39

right, I don't want to lead you,

43:41

but I'm going to tell you my

43:43

honest opinion. Mm-hmm. I think one of the

43:45

most undervalued. undervalued groups groups in

43:48

in the UK. I I'd agree with that. that.

43:50

And also I think I think, what

43:52

you all have done in

43:54

terms of blending of blending soul and pop

43:56

hip hop, Who else did that? that?

44:00

Well, at least who else did that? Not any

44:02

of that I've heard. But we can't sit here

44:04

and blur our own trombits. We let the music

44:06

and the fan base speak for itself. How

44:09

many platinum albums? Oh God,

44:11

four. How many gold albums? I

44:13

don't know. So we had,

44:15

how many albums did we have

44:17

in total? There's only one

44:19

that is gold that didn't go

44:22

platinum. So, only oh no. So

44:24

two gold, four platinum, I

44:26

don't even know. Recently, the greatest

44:28

hits just went platinum as

44:30

well. So even I don't know.

44:32

There's three. Yes, so that would

44:34

be three. So we'll say

44:36

two or three platinum. Yeah. Right?

44:38

At least four gold. Yeah.

44:40

All right. How many MOBO awards?

44:42

I don't know. Four. Okay. What's

44:47

the name of the group? I

44:49

don't know. I just turn up

44:51

to sing and write, that's it.

44:53

I probably live in a bubble.

44:55

I'm one of those people. Like

44:57

I just call out from under

44:59

my rock. I'm like, is it

45:02

studio time? Okay, cool. But you

45:04

don't have all this on your

45:06

wall? I have it in like

45:08

my gaming room. I have it.

45:10

I know that with four times

45:12

platinum, I know that much. That's

45:14

what I know. This is what

45:16

I'm saying. Yeah. All right. So,

45:18

I said, I think, and Dubbs

45:20

completely undervalued. You said, I'm gonna

45:22

let the fan base speak. Yeah.

45:24

Why do you think I said

45:26

that? I think because you're someone

45:28

that appreciates real music and something

45:30

a lot of people didn't pay

45:32

attention to when it came to

45:34

being a critic or critiquing the

45:36

music was the level of complex

45:38

music that we make. It's very

45:40

beyond our years, very mature for

45:42

our years. And it's combining so

45:44

many other sounds. And if you're

45:46

a music man or a music

45:48

woman, you're gonna hear that and

45:50

go, is that an orchestra string

45:52

in the background? Is that an

45:54

80s guitar if I'm hearing? Is

45:56

that, you know, it's just endless.

45:58

It's endless. endless. It's endless. Can we

46:00

talk about your voice? your You

46:03

can can do. How do you rate

46:05

yourself? yourself? like when you walked into

46:07

the studio, I had Mary J the studio,

46:09

I I could tell you, you put,

46:11

everyone puts Mary J I could tell But

46:13

how do you, in terms of

46:15

critiquing your voice, But where you place

46:17

yourself? in terms of I place

46:19

myself as a recording

46:22

artist. myself as a I'm one

46:24

of those people I'm one of those

46:26

people that mo - more. about

46:28

more than my voice. It's about

46:30

my writing. the It's about the little

46:33

tricks and things that I throw in

46:35

and the ha the ha-ha's the things that

46:37

I say. that I feel like I'm a

46:39

great artist as a whole package. as a

46:41

whole but I don't see

46:43

myself as like... as like a the world

46:45

far from it. of the more of an

46:47

edgy artist. it. I'm more of recording

46:50

artist. And a you think that's

46:52

how the Okay. Yeah. see you. that's

46:54

don't fans see I don't know, know.

46:56

I don't know. I think I

46:58

have I have 50-50 opinions. I think the

47:00

real ones will say that

47:03

you have got a voice on

47:05

you Yeah, I saw you

47:07

do a Sam Smith cover Smith cover.

47:09

Yeah, I know the one I know what you mean.

47:11

yeah. yeah. comment after comment was

47:13

like. was That was a

47:15

bold choice a bold she laid it

47:17

down. she laid it down. Yeah. Till know.

47:20

I'm saying, yeah, saying it's

47:22

there, it's there. it's

47:25

for sure. Oh no for sure. Yeah,

47:27

so the end-ups starts though as, the

47:29

first original name

47:31

for name for end-ups? The

47:34

liquor rinsers, little and we

47:36

rinse them off. the liquor

47:38

rinsers. We were little stems

47:40

from Jamaica in my

47:43

opinion, mic, liquor rinsers, is it? So

47:45

then how does a book, how does a

47:47

does the group become

47:49

end-ups? We We went from

47:52

the the Little Rinsers to NW1, which

47:54

was was our postcode. Got Got

47:56

you. And that just wasn't

47:58

cool enough, cool enough. So... Dappy

48:00

was like, we need to

48:03

switch this to like end-ups

48:05

for short. So it's N-W

48:08

and that's how end-ups came

48:10

about. Interesting. Dappy seems to

48:12

have had a profound life-changing

48:15

impact on you. Yes, he

48:17

has actually, no, many people

48:20

know it's that. Yeah, tell

48:22

me about him. Me and

48:25

Daps. I feel like me

48:27

and Dappy have... soul ties,

48:30

soul contracts. Like I feel

48:32

like we have been in

48:34

each other's lives, you know,

48:37

he could have been my

48:39

son in the last one,

48:42

re-inclination cycles, like we are

48:44

soul-tied together, me and Daps.

48:47

I also sometimes feel like

48:49

we are kind of a

48:52

split version of one in

48:54

the same, like if Twin

48:56

Flames was romantic, so like

48:59

we are... The yin and

49:01

the yang okay, like I

49:04

would be earth and he

49:06

would be Venus the one

49:09

that's on fire yes covered

49:11

in Sulfuric acid really yeah

49:14

We are so similar in

49:16

so many ways people that

49:18

know us Find it trippy

49:21

at times where they're watching

49:23

us like oh my god.

49:26

It's like the same person

49:28

and then we are so

49:31

different in so many other

49:33

ways We're more like brother

49:36

and sister. We

49:38

trigger each

49:41

other a

49:45

lot. It

49:48

is a

49:51

very intense

49:54

relationship. There's

49:58

not many people in this. life

50:00

that could that could. at times

50:02

can me at times can really

50:04

upset me. never but I

50:06

will never kick out. I of my life.

50:09

kill and I would also kill for. bizarre

50:11

love because mostly with

50:14

me if bizarre such a mostly with me

50:16

if I have such a up

50:18

and down relationship with someone,

50:20

I'm just like out you just over my

50:22

peace. out He's just that He's

50:24

just that one little human

50:26

icon. I can't will forever love Yeah.

50:29

With all my heart and also

50:31

kill him. And also kill him.

50:33

have unconditional love? Yes.

50:36

That's what I have for

50:38

daps. So I have fadaps. my little

50:40

evil twin. Right little evil twin. keep

50:42

saying saying little. No, that's it. I

50:44

don't, not because he's he swore.

50:47

he's He's than than me. he's No, not because

50:49

he's small. a northern thing. We just, I think it's Do

50:51

thing. We say bag to know? Are you bring your

50:53

little bag cup of tea? Yeah, it's are you having your

50:55

little cup of tea? It's just, I actually say little a lot.

50:57

just know little. I get pulled up on that? You lot.

50:59

you know up get pulled up on that, you that,

51:01

know? on that. You know, I get pulled in, you know, a bit I'm dating

51:03

a guy, I'm like, that, a you eat your little

51:05

thing? a And they're like, stop calling me little. a little,

51:07

a little, a little, a lot. Do you know. Do you know. Do you know. it

51:09

like that. a little, a little, a little, a little, a it but

51:11

a not I don't mean a little, a, a should

51:13

now try to replace it with big a, a little,

51:15

a Right, with your it's doesn't have to

51:17

say. it doesn't you bring say,

51:19

rain's through the head. You bring back big,

51:22

you know, bring your big It's

51:24

like, Did little, your big bag it's

51:26

my little cousin. middle is like, did you

51:28

your big cousin. Yeah, he is my

51:30

big cousin. He's older than me, boss. cousin, you know, not,

51:32

the big sister. your All right,

51:34

so Yeah, I could see that.

51:36

I could see how there's

51:38

unconditional love, respect, trust, big and

51:40

with He's I could see the

51:42

three of you, truly the three

51:44

of you are. are. Our friends, colleagues,

51:47

forever. colleagues.

51:49

That will never, the

51:51

bond will never die.

51:54

Yes. will never die. Yes. What

51:56

we've experienced, I can't

51:59

imagine. imagine. any band in the

52:01

world has had, just the dynamic,

52:03

the way it's happened, everything about

52:05

it. I know everyone's experience is

52:07

unique, but I just feel like

52:09

it's just something that is really

52:11

untouchable. No one would ever really

52:14

know the bond that we have.

52:16

Without a doubt, the bond must

52:18

have become stronger after the passing

52:20

of Uncle B. Because from what

52:22

I understand, Uncle B. truly was,

52:24

I mean he was managing leading.

52:26

He was the driving force. The

52:28

driving force. So how, how, I

52:31

mean, please tell us about that

52:33

moment when you found out. And

52:35

then how do you then remain

52:37

together? Because that, I can imagine

52:39

that could have split up a

52:41

lot of groups. Yeah, oh no,

52:43

complete opposite. I never had anyone

52:45

close to me die before. B

52:48

was... He's a very intuitive individual,

52:50

spiritual himself. He knew something was

52:52

wrong with him. He kept saying

52:54

to the group, I'm not right.

52:56

I'm going to die soon. See,

52:58

he said this. Yeah. One place

53:00

I get my tough love from

53:02

is my uncle B. So he

53:05

would just savagely say things and

53:07

this is like something he taught

53:09

me. He's walking around like, yeah,

53:11

you're all laughing now if we

53:13

had like giving him a hard

53:15

time in the studio or someone's

53:17

turning up late. And he kept

53:19

saying it and we'd be like,

53:22

B, stop saying that man, don't

53:24

say that. So bad, shut up,

53:26

stop being stupid. And then we

53:28

did our first show where we

53:30

actually saw that we had a

53:32

fan base. It was the first

53:34

show we ever did. It was

53:36

in a place called Red Hill

53:39

and it was a sellout 2000

53:41

capacity. And we hadn't started gigging

53:43

since releasing the last few channel

53:45

U videos. So it was like

53:47

our first show. We've done a

53:49

first show sold out 2000 and

53:51

then there were just 2,000 kids

53:53

screaming word for word all our

53:56

lyrics at the top of their

53:58

lungs. we just each

54:00

other at each other all was

54:02

like, we've done it and B's at the

54:04

back of the of the room, like, they've

54:06

done done it. we we go. And he

54:08

said afterwards, I was in, was in, we it around.

54:10

of this around in this I was going

54:12

to say little green van. was

54:15

say little green van, it was can't help it.

54:17

I can't help it. We were driving around

54:19

in this this van and he was like,

54:21

he was like, done it, I've

54:23

done it. to go I'm ready to

54:25

go now. Please stop saying

54:27

that, I'm done. I'm done. That's it, this is

54:29

what I is here to do. was here ready

54:31

to go. ready to go And

54:33

then he died. the next day

54:36

next day next, the the

54:38

next two days. I have never experienced

54:41

never experienced a feeling like it.

54:43

day day out like I out, like

54:45

I just fainted. something took to c -

54:47

and then I remember waking up

54:50

up. as soon as I woke as soon

54:52

as I woke up, the first person,

54:54

it was like, god be you going to and

54:56

then my head went. went Dappy. That

54:58

was just all that was just all

55:00

that took and went into my mind. and

55:02

I was like, like and I was

55:04

looking around the room the my eyes

55:06

found him. then I just, and then

55:09

I And I was just crying

55:11

and screaming, crying, just looking at

55:13

him. crying just looking at

55:15

him because I it was

55:17

the heartbreak for him.

55:19

and knowing how and knowing how much

55:21

he was going to now suffer the the

55:23

way his life had changed. changed. it

55:26

was just heartbreaking

55:28

gut wrenching and I was looking

55:30

at him and screaming. and

55:32

screaming it's like with my arms. reached out

55:34

to him, just screaming, him just

55:37

and he he was just Just

55:39

shocked, just completely. could

55:41

say lifeless almost didn't

55:43

know where to look didn't know where to look.

55:46

he and then just was come

55:48

to yours like I just I come

55:50

to yours? rid just want to get rid

55:52

of everyone. to yours come to yours. to

55:54

yours and And that day he

55:56

just came back to my house, a back to my

55:58

house, a house been been to. in like over

56:00

two years. We hadn't seen my

56:03

mom, we hadn't seen anyone, I

56:05

always go to his house or

56:07

I see him at the studio

56:10

and he just wanted to go

56:12

back to my house in the

56:14

room. You know, we grew up

56:17

in having sleepovers and we just

56:19

sat in my bedroom in silence

56:21

for like two hours and didn't

56:23

move. We didn't speak. We just

56:26

sat side by side in silence.

56:28

That's such a testament to how

56:30

safety felt with you. Yeah. You

56:33

know. How did... You all stay

56:35

together after that. Oh after that

56:37

it was like be died for

56:39

this shit This is it now.

56:42

We're gonna take this to the

56:44

next level we did a gig

56:46

the next day. Did you yeah?

56:49

There was no messing about now.

56:51

We cried on stage, but we

56:53

did it It was like now.

56:55

It's do or die So you

56:58

were moving forward as it as

57:00

a testament to B's life. First

57:02

album, Uncle B. What do you

57:05

think Uncle B would say after

57:07

seeing what end-ups has done? After

57:09

that last haul, he's his laughing

57:12

his freaking head off. He's out

57:14

there and that's what he's, he's

57:16

the kind of person, like after

57:18

that show. I told you, Mother

57:21

Fuckers! That's his energy.

57:23

He would just sit and laugh, you

57:25

know, like that amount of something fantastic

57:28

happens. He's just like, he's just up

57:30

there pissing his sides. Yeah, I think

57:32

when it comes to these, you know,

57:34

I think the brilliant managers, right, is

57:37

that they have to see something that

57:39

not only the world doesn't see, but

57:41

you as the artist that you don't

57:44

see. Yeah, he believed in us more

57:46

than ours. Yes, like incredible. He was

57:48

right. Yeah. I'm looking here is, I

57:51

see that I see that. It's two

57:53

Platinum certified albums, two certified gold albums,

57:55

five mobile awards. But perhaps with this

57:57

last one, they... talk about

58:00

it. that I I tell you what

58:02

it is. is so the album, the the first album

58:04

that went platinum went double platinum, so it's

58:06

two sets of platinum. sets of And then

58:08

the next one went platinum. platinum and

58:10

then the graze hits is also

58:12

platinum platinum so times times go, there

58:14

you go. you go All right,

58:16

done, done and done, done and done,

58:19

done and done. I'm not I'm with that. on

58:21

you not all you that. You're like, on you

58:23

that's what's on my wall. well, I know.

58:25

It's up there. I've got a whole I

58:27

know, it's at me every day. I look

58:29

at it every day. disk All right, me every day.

58:31

I look at Let's look at this day. All

58:33

right, because you go from

58:36

like this ton. Okay, because you go

58:38

a part of this

58:40

phenomenally well of group.

58:42

right, so that's really

58:44

your group. And fame fame comes

58:46

with that, but even prior to

58:48

getting to that. that, you've gone

58:51

gone through all of this stuff. And all And

58:53

all of this stuff I would imagine

58:55

has an impact on your mental health. What

58:57

was the impact that your childhood had the

58:59

your mental health? that your

59:02

childhood self your mental

59:04

would began myself a

59:06

lot. would cut myself a

59:09

Just on my arms I would use

59:11

scissors or a knife. Thank much or

59:13

a knife or... a couple

59:15

of a couple of times a raise

59:17

of I would I cut

59:19

myself myself I would

59:22

cry night. night

59:24

depressed. depressed depressed

59:26

child and I

59:28

wouldn't find joy. and I

59:31

wouldn't find many

59:33

things. anything many

59:35

things just a Satch

59:37

out. child okay this

59:40

is is something that

59:42

So you I

59:44

mean cut yourself cut yourself. what

59:46

what was the intention of cutting

59:48

yourself? of

59:51

cutting yourself?

59:53

I to say... to say

59:55

I was I was feeling

59:57

all this pain. in

1:00:00

and for me this pain

1:00:02

felt excruciating but it was

1:00:04

all trapped in my mind

1:00:06

and I couldn't release this

1:00:08

pain and it wasn't even

1:00:10

real that I could touch

1:00:12

it it's all internal and

1:00:15

the cutting was a way

1:00:17

of externalizing the internal pain.

1:00:19

I'm with you. Yeah. So

1:00:21

something that felt real and

1:00:23

also a pain that took

1:00:26

away from the pain. From

1:00:28

the pain and then after

1:00:30

you cut yourself would you

1:00:32

want anyone to see the

1:00:34

cut? No. No. I would

1:00:36

wear long sleeves. How many

1:00:39

years did that continue for?

1:00:41

I want to say that

1:00:43

was on and off. I'd

1:00:45

have periods where it would

1:00:47

be worse than other times

1:00:49

from the age of... Maybe

1:00:52

12 or 13 up to

1:00:54

17. Okay. I also had

1:00:56

compulsive skin picking disorder. So

1:00:59

I would also, anything I

1:01:01

could find in my skin,

1:01:03

in my face mostly body,

1:01:05

I would take tweezers, I

1:01:07

would take needles and I

1:01:10

would squeeze and squeeze most

1:01:12

of the time at nothing.

1:01:14

But it was some kind

1:01:16

of, as a compulsive disorder,

1:01:18

I guess. So I have

1:01:21

that, I still suffer with

1:01:23

it to this day, but

1:01:25

I have it a lot

1:01:27

more under control than what

1:01:29

I used to. Okay. So

1:01:32

my God, I mean, going

1:01:34

back to the 14, when

1:01:36

did you start at end-ups?

1:01:38

How old were you? Eleven.

1:01:40

Eleven. Eleven. Eleven. 12, 13,

1:01:43

14. You know, you're on

1:01:45

this graph with the group,

1:01:47

right? Still haven't found stardom.

1:01:49

You are dealing with being

1:01:51

the carer for your mother.

1:01:54

You are dealing with these

1:01:56

relationships. You've gone through these...

1:01:58

very challenging

1:02:00

relationships. And it seems

1:02:02

like a lot of that is manifesting like a

1:02:04

lot of that mental health state. in

1:02:07

your but yet you still had. state.

1:02:09

But yet you still had I

1:02:11

did. Mm. I did. Did it have faith?

1:02:13

do you think you'd be without think you'd

1:02:15

be without the faith? God,

1:02:18

finished. I would have fully myself

1:02:20

years ago, out of there. ago, It

1:02:22

was the there. It And the faith faith. And

1:02:24

the faith is is the file. 100%. see

1:02:26

it. see it. literally. I could

1:02:29

see see it. This is a a

1:02:31

part of your story that

1:02:33

I that aware of yeah, but

1:02:35

now because what I often

1:02:37

and I have even gotten

1:02:39

to I think yeah to, I think,

1:02:41

some of this, we haven't even started, I mean, but

1:02:43

you think I think I always

1:02:45

wondered it that was it that

1:02:47

got you through? know, there's so many

1:02:50

of us, we all have a Star. And now

1:02:52

I And now I understand it was

1:02:54

your faith. It was my faith. You

1:02:56

know, so when you think when you think

1:02:58

about end-ups, so

1:03:01

so end-ups, And I

1:03:03

said, I feel like

1:03:05

end -ups was undervalued. was under-value, talk

1:03:07

about? talk about class?

1:03:09

Do you believe that Do

1:03:12

you believe that? of

1:03:14

class prevalence of class and

1:03:16

the perception of class in

1:03:18

the UK. had any any

1:03:20

impact on how

1:03:22

people perceive end-ups? And

1:03:24

impact. It It

1:03:27

was what dominated the the press

1:03:29

and at the time when the

1:03:31

time, when it came to the our

1:03:33

of our success, that's all there

1:03:35

is, is the press. press. But you

1:03:37

know, it's But, you know. a strange

1:03:40

time back a strange time

1:03:42

back then. was it It

1:03:44

was very this, know, know, they'd

1:03:46

shows where shows where like... He was

1:03:48

like Kevin and Perry go was like it

1:03:50

was like of ripping the crap

1:03:52

and kind of ripping the things like. Yeah,

1:03:55

the that it was a

1:03:57

very like this. time. a very different

1:03:59

time. But I guess, yeah, and

1:04:01

100% is so many ways the

1:04:03

line was crossed in many ways,

1:04:06

but at that time, there was

1:04:08

no line, so. There was no

1:04:10

line. No. How was it crossed?

1:04:12

What are some examples of what

1:04:14

was being said? So many experiences

1:04:16

now, weirdly, I had to do

1:04:18

this the other day, dealing with

1:04:20

a phone hacking case, and I

1:04:22

had to sit and look through

1:04:25

press stories, and you know. they'd

1:04:27

ask me about end-up stories and

1:04:29

I said my mind is so

1:04:31

dominated by trial, the trial, but

1:04:33

I can barely remember any other

1:04:35

press. So it's like if you

1:04:37

ask me another top of my

1:04:39

head about an end-up story I'm

1:04:41

like, because there's been so many

1:04:44

so the ones that dominate my

1:04:46

mind are like the trial, the

1:04:48

tape, things like that rather than

1:04:50

the actual end-ups. So it's hard

1:04:52

for me to even pinpoint, but

1:04:54

I know that there were. You

1:04:56

know what I mean? So with

1:04:58

end-ups, what I've, what I, all

1:05:01

right, so here's what the nerd

1:05:03

in me did. Okay. I looked

1:05:05

at album sales, right? And I

1:05:07

looked at things like views, total

1:05:09

views on like YouTube, right? And

1:05:11

I looked at it in comparison

1:05:13

to other groups. And I'm not

1:05:15

going to name names on other

1:05:17

groups, but other groups that were

1:05:20

out during that time. Yeah. And

1:05:22

then what I did is I

1:05:24

put it all into chat GPT.

1:05:26

Oh wow, I'm fascinated by you,

1:05:28

you know, I'm so with you,

1:05:30

this is such a me thing

1:05:32

to do. You should do this,

1:05:34

you should do this, you should

1:05:36

do this on your free time.

1:05:39

Okay, I love this. I put

1:05:41

in the chat GPT and I

1:05:43

said, okay, now tell me what

1:05:45

the sentiment was from press articles

1:05:47

on these groups. And you know

1:05:49

who were literally what Chatchity BD

1:05:51

came back was like and that's

1:05:53

completely undervalued. Here's the reason why.

1:05:56

Wow. And it was specifically related

1:05:58

to this perception around class. Not

1:06:00

wrong. And I think And I

1:06:02

think being the without living living in

1:06:04

the UK, hard it was so hard

1:06:06

for me to understand class. Because in

1:06:08

all over the over the world, we

1:06:10

have class. But in in the I I

1:06:12

feel like it is predominantly based

1:06:15

on wealth. So you make some make

1:06:17

some money? You're upper class. Right. Got you.

1:06:19

No No matter. No matter no

1:06:21

matter how you sound, no

1:06:23

matter how you dress, no matter

1:06:25

what you do, what have somebody

1:06:27

in your pocket, some money in Whereas

1:06:29

here it's Right. Your upper class. coach,

1:06:31

coach, coach. cultures, it's all

1:06:34

culture culture this could

1:06:36

see how this begins

1:06:38

to not begins how

1:06:40

this impacts the perception perception.

1:06:42

Yeah. So you're in in

1:06:44

agreement? Yeah 100% 100% 100% musically

1:06:47

100 like we were talking about

1:06:49

before very we were told about

1:06:51

before, very musically because Just because you're

1:06:53

hearing us rap, you know which as

1:06:55

well, rap wasn't taken as

1:06:57

seriously back then, the music music,

1:06:59

the beats that we were singing

1:07:02

and rapping over well well. Yes.

1:07:04

The production. could break down down and

1:07:06

end record like you go to

1:07:08

someone that does that does mastering And

1:07:10

people that do mastering and mixes have said

1:07:12

this, they're like, like, you ain't never heard

1:07:14

never heard end does record, an that. record,

1:07:16

you amount of layers and stuff that they've

1:07:18

got going on in there got going on in there

1:07:21

is wild. you looking can have 52 different

1:07:23

vocal tracks, you know, you know, there, they

1:07:25

had people of bamboozel when when they

1:07:27

open it up, like you've got what going

1:07:29

on in this song? Yeah, was that, Faiser was, was

1:07:31

he predominantly the producer? He was

1:07:33

the producer, producer, he still is. Genius. Genius. Genius.

1:07:35

The man's genius. Genius Do you think

1:07:37

he gets his Yeah, do you think he gets

1:07:39

his dues? not, but I think

1:07:41

it's just not evident enough. No

1:07:43

one thinks as much about. enough.

1:07:46

No one how important. about the beats

1:07:48

song is about singing over. And

1:07:51

some people like And some people like

1:07:53

music, but they're not musical. you know what I know

1:07:55

what I mean? know, everyone likes music.

1:07:57

It doesn't make them necessarily a real

1:07:59

real matter. a music woman. I hear

1:08:01

you. So not everyone really

1:08:03

respects music in the same

1:08:05

way as others. So that's

1:08:07

why I think Faiser doesn't

1:08:09

get as much credit as he

1:08:12

is due, as the genius

1:08:14

that he is. So we're

1:08:16

looking at all these end-ups headlines,

1:08:18

right? And a lot of

1:08:20

them from the press are

1:08:22

negative, right? And a lot

1:08:24

of them are talking about lifestyle,

1:08:27

etc. A lot of them

1:08:29

also bullshit. Yeah, facts. So

1:08:31

from N-Dubs, it feels like the

1:08:33

next big career jump for

1:08:35

you was X-Factor. Okay, which

1:08:37

was just, you know, and I

1:08:39

think for anyone looking at

1:08:41

television today, I think you

1:08:43

have to understand what X-Factor

1:08:45

was as a project at that

1:08:48

point, because what year is

1:08:50

this? Like 2012. 2012. So

1:08:52

this is... I mean the numbers

1:08:54

must have been ridiculous in

1:08:56

terms of the viewership. There

1:08:58

was like 16 million. 16 million.

1:09:01

Like no one's getting numbers

1:09:03

like that. No. Today. Yeah.

1:09:05

How? Because I always hear

1:09:07

you talk about this. You manifested

1:09:09

that. Yeah. I manifest some

1:09:11

lot of stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

1:09:13

You manifest that. So you manifest

1:09:16

that. What's your, what are

1:09:18

you thinking, what are you

1:09:20

feeling, day one on X

1:09:22

factor? Crap, now I've got to

1:09:24

do this. Now I actually

1:09:26

have to do it. I

1:09:28

manifested it, but I just want

1:09:30

the job. I'm not thinking

1:09:32

about how I'm going to

1:09:34

do the job. I never thought

1:09:37

about how, what would I

1:09:39

bring to the table outside

1:09:41

of, I'm thinking face value,

1:09:43

me as a judge. I know

1:09:45

how to talk the talk,

1:09:47

you know, I mean, I

1:09:49

know how to jump in front

1:09:52

of a camera and do

1:09:54

the whole entertainment thing.

1:09:56

that would be

1:09:58

good TV about

1:10:00

you. But then when

1:10:02

I actually became a judge, then I'm

1:10:04

like, there's way more to this and

1:10:06

now I'm responsible for people and individuals

1:10:08

and this is a bigger responsibility. How

1:10:10

am I really gonna do this? Not

1:10:12

what you see on camera. the The

1:10:14

stuff that goes down behind the scenes.

1:10:17

And now I was like, crap now

1:10:19

I've got a... really do

1:10:21

this. I think they also thought I

1:10:23

may, because I wanted the job, so I talked

1:10:25

the talk to get the job. And I think

1:10:27

they maybe thought I was I was - be

1:10:29

even more fiery than

1:10:31

I was. and then they found

1:10:33

that I was actually quite a in many

1:10:35

ways when I got up there so

1:10:37

even they had to switch their narrative as

1:10:39

they were filming as a judge because they kind

1:10:41

of had an expectation of one thing and then

1:10:43

like oh so then we're gonna switch it this

1:10:46

way did you find yourself

1:10:48

feeling like you had to? almost

1:10:51

present a character. hundred percent yeah

1:10:53

okay. Well, thank you for saying

1:10:55

yeah it's just the you know it's like

1:10:57

the Japanese we have the three faces,

1:10:59

we have the one that we show

1:11:01

the world, have the one that we

1:11:04

show our immediate circle and then we

1:11:06

have the one that we show ourself

1:11:08

And though I have always been a

1:11:10

very authentic individual, I always keep it

1:11:12

real. but still, when you're

1:11:14

22 on a TV show like

1:11:16

that, of course there's a level

1:11:18

of that third face. you know.

1:11:20

and you're not going to be

1:11:22

100. percent yourself it's not that

1:11:24

you're not being yourself, you're

1:11:26

being a version of yourself in

1:11:28

that situation yes yes And

1:11:31

how do you think that that version of

1:11:33

you was received? I I

1:11:35

think I felt like at first I

1:11:37

had a lot of haters but what

1:11:39

I saw more was the love.

1:11:41

okay At first. and

1:11:44

not initially when I first got the job,

1:11:46

I mean as I was warmed in on

1:11:48

the show, when I first got the job

1:11:50

it was just pure hatred. And she

1:11:52

doesn't deserve this. she shouldn't be there

1:11:54

and you

1:11:56

know, what is this? It's like

1:11:58

an abomination. becoming a judge.

1:12:02

But then, as time went

1:12:04

on, I felt a lot

1:12:06

of love from individuals, and

1:12:08

I'd always, You know,

1:12:10

my life was never easy, so

1:12:12

mama, it wasn't Too much for

1:12:14

me. It's like 50 % of people love

1:12:16

me, 50 % of people hate me. It

1:12:18

is what it is Because still

1:12:20

here I'm still getting paid Like,

1:12:25

good you know, I deal

1:12:28

that And and that's

1:12:30

how it was at first. All

1:12:32

right. What about the whole, the

1:12:34

folks who didn't like you, right?

1:12:36

Yeah. How Because none of those

1:12:38

folks knew you. Yeah. So it

1:12:40

seems like what they are not

1:12:42

liking is what the perception of

1:12:44

you. Yes. But they're not liking

1:12:46

you, it's the perception of you.

1:12:48

Yeah. You know. But I would

1:12:50

imagine at that age too, You

1:12:53

can. you disconnect those two

1:12:55

so you're feeling like you're not

1:12:57

being liked. Yeah. it was very

1:12:59

hard as well going from being

1:13:01

in end -ups, where with these

1:13:03

kind of, you know... characters

1:13:06

that grew up in Camden and

1:13:08

were super edgy, super raw. you

1:13:11

know, mean, ghetto, do you know I mean?

1:13:13

We were ghetto, keeping it real and in

1:13:15

the things that we would talk about and

1:13:18

the way we were and the way we

1:13:20

speak. And then I have to switch to

1:13:22

commercial. television it's like, hey, hi

1:13:24

guys, you know the drill. Hey,

1:13:26

how are you today? Love that,

1:13:28

amazing. So you have this other

1:13:30

Tulisa that goes, I was like,

1:13:32

yeah, you're good, bro. Hi

1:13:35

guys, today, you know, so there's

1:13:37

the two sides, but this is

1:13:39

where speaking about my childhood. I

1:13:42

had witnessed the two walks of life

1:13:44

which enable me to switch in a

1:13:46

room full of big wigs and turn

1:13:48

on the charm Also go back to

1:13:50

Camden Yeah, and fit right in. Yeah,

1:13:52

can I say this is what I

1:13:54

hate about television right now.

1:13:56

Exactly the same. It's the

1:13:58

contrived energy. It grates my my

1:14:01

soul. It grates my soul

1:14:03

as well. I'm glad glad we agree

1:14:05

on that. that. It's like cheese my soul.

1:14:07

is the feeling. It's like is the fee.

1:14:09

down. nails going down a chalk

1:14:11

board. Yes. Yes. much. too I'm hoping for the

1:14:13

day. By the way, this is what I

1:14:15

love so much about this is what I love so I

1:14:17

was just having this conversation before

1:14:19

I came here was just that I

1:14:21

love podcast it's it's bringing realness to

1:14:24

the world it's bringing authenticity this

1:14:26

can some kind of difference some I

1:14:28

get to speak truth I get

1:14:30

to promote authenticity get to this makes

1:14:32

it worth it this makes and

1:14:34

you are not and you are not edited

1:14:37

no look a certain way, way no I said

1:14:39

that said that and that's how it came

1:14:41

out and that's what was said yeah yeah I'm with

1:14:43

you yeah I'm with you and

1:14:45

I can imagine game years ago ago

1:14:47

like 10 years ago it's

1:14:49

even even like it's an even

1:14:51

tighter edit around who you are

1:14:53

and there's more of a of

1:14:55

this is who we want we

1:14:57

want to Lisa know know now you don't have to

1:14:59

answer this don't have to answer this

1:15:01

one. don't mean, you don't have to

1:15:03

answer any of these, of but, but,

1:15:05

but I'm curious I'm curious been on many

1:15:08

different shows shows different. with cast

1:15:10

members, right? right you know

1:15:12

if you you know, a if you have a

1:15:14

supportive group. a It makes

1:15:16

them a different a much different

1:15:18

scenario a a non -supportive group. group

1:15:20

you feel like you were supported?

1:15:22

were supported your fellow I'll

1:15:24

say cast, at X say No,

1:15:27

only Louis. Okay. Yeah, Louis, I

1:15:29

felt very supported by. Though

1:15:31

Nicole was quite I felt very

1:15:33

supported by. I was on

1:15:35

was quite supportive. she was sweet,

1:15:37

but when I was on the year of Nicole, to

1:15:39

she was sweet, but she a to do

1:15:41

with their own on that show, you being on that

1:15:43

show, you know, just trying to do with her own, Trauma's

1:15:45

being on the show. on the show, The big

1:15:48

deal it is to her. deal it is to her.

1:15:50

But yeah, I'd say Louie was was like, my

1:15:52

rock, that's why that's why I have

1:15:54

that love for Louis. He really really saw,

1:15:56

like, a baby She got

1:15:58

a little pole. We got a little baby

1:16:00

a the panel. baby on the pedal.

1:16:03

Boop. I mean, you were. Yeah,

1:16:05

I'm 22. Yeah, you're a baby. 22

1:16:07

years old he saw that.

1:16:09

saw that. would advise he

1:16:11

would and try and try and protect me

1:16:13

as much as you as he right. All

1:16:15

All right. Now Now, that I

1:16:17

I think is what, first

1:16:19

and second season second season, that

1:16:21

tape comes out. Yeah out. Yeah.

1:16:23

All All right. And it all went

1:16:25

it's up. all went it's up. is

1:16:27

2013. 2013. Yeah. This is the of

1:16:29

of This is the Year of

1:16:32

Enlightenment, you know. Yes, this is the

1:16:34

year of this is could look at it's interesting

1:16:36

some people can look at you could look this was

1:16:38

a year of hell Yeah some people

1:16:40

how you was like, no, no,

1:16:42

no. is, I became enlightened. a year of hell.

1:16:44

So. I like how you're like, no, no,

1:16:46

no, this is, I became point do

1:16:48

you find out that there is

1:16:50

a find out that there is a sex

1:16:52

tape? I found out. all

1:16:55

the all the way through So even what was what

1:16:57

was supposed to be the happiest time of

1:16:59

my life, getting that job, doing what

1:17:01

I was doing, what I was I was being

1:17:03

tortured the fact fact someone had told me

1:17:05

there was told me he was just waiting for

1:17:07

the he just release it.

1:17:09

the right moment to release it. Can I This

1:17:11

is the one part of

1:17:13

television, part of television and being an artist

1:17:15

that I think is most

1:17:18

undervalued by the audience. And that

1:17:20

is, is, it's not necessarily like when

1:17:22

when you have to walk out

1:17:24

on stage read a teleprompter, it's you

1:17:26

have to walk out on stage,

1:17:28

read a teleprompter, maybe you've had

1:17:30

three hours of sleep, maybe you've

1:17:33

just been told of sleep. And you've that

1:17:35

is traumatic, news, that and you still

1:17:37

have to perform have the circumstance. given the

1:17:39

is what makes a professional what makes

1:17:41

a an amateur. versus, say, an amateur. So one,

1:17:43

one, you're out here, where you

1:17:45

have this knowledge. knowledge. Yeah. and I'm just going

1:17:47

home. home crying. I was so

1:17:50

was so went I went to

1:17:52

one of the producers She was

1:17:54

like my kind of go-to was also

1:17:56

was great support on the show. on

1:17:58

the show I I had to I

1:18:00

couldn't couldn't live with it

1:18:02

inside I said, Then I said, listen,

1:18:04

there's this tape. and it might come

1:18:07

out, it might come out, Am

1:18:09

to happen? to lose my gonna lose

1:18:11

my job on the show? Because back

1:18:13

then the climate was, oh, this is this is

1:18:15

a family show, show, that out. It wasn't

1:18:17

now or you're a victim. now, or wasn't

1:18:19

the narrative back then the this

1:18:21

was happening to me so

1:18:23

it wasn't just this be humiliated me.

1:18:25

So it also I'm gonna lose

1:18:27

everything to be humiliated. No

1:18:29

No one wants to go out with this girl with a

1:18:31

sex aid on family TV. So

1:18:33

she said to me, I don't know. I She

1:18:35

said to me, I don't know. to happen.

1:18:37

don't know what's going to happen. be me that it

1:18:40

won't be me that makes. And that

1:18:42

decision and she also doesn't want

1:18:44

everyone else to know. She she wants to

1:18:46

protect me to you right now. me too

1:18:48

right now. Right. So it was mad. Spiritually

1:18:50

as It was mad, a spiritually

1:18:52

as well. I get a lot of

1:18:54

premonitions so I dream things. they happened. And I

1:18:56

And I dreamt. the the

1:18:58

day the tape was going to come out. going to always

1:19:01

out. I always, happen, I'll see you in

1:19:03

a dream. big's I

1:19:05

was riding on a

1:19:07

white horse with my Uncle

1:19:09

B. on a white horse with

1:19:11

my all of a B. And all of

1:19:13

a sudden, the horse and

1:19:15

we both fell off. both He was

1:19:17

gone. was gone, and there was just

1:19:20

me on the me on the to

1:19:22

this slaughtered this slaughtered is

1:19:24

what I swear in my is what I saw in

1:19:26

my dream. And then... I'm

1:19:28

in in I'm I'm looking

1:19:30

at the the slaughtered and and then

1:19:32

a guy who I who I was seeing

1:19:34

at the time, time, O 'Connell. his

1:19:36

mum appears, who who I've never

1:19:39

met met before, This woman. and

1:19:41

she's And she's like, come, come with

1:19:43

me today, sir. Lisa, and she takes

1:19:45

my hand and she brings

1:19:47

me to a back garden back

1:19:50

there's a where there's a everyone's dancing

1:19:52

and eating. dancing and

1:19:54

eating, and I was happy again.

1:19:56

again. So, the the

1:19:58

next day. the tape drops,

1:20:01

I wake up, and it wasn't up.

1:20:03

I woke up, I wasn't when I

1:20:05

woke up, I woke up really bad really

1:20:07

bad is going to happen today because

1:20:09

of that slaughtered lamb. that slaughtered lamb. And then

1:20:11

I found out later that day, the

1:20:13

tape had dropped. was like, there

1:20:15

it is. I was like And then And then

1:20:17

was meant to be in America be

1:20:19

a movie. a movie, so I

1:20:21

wasn't wasn't even to see see

1:20:23

him. went went wrong with the

1:20:26

he He couldn't get the

1:20:28

visa visa. and they him home.

1:20:30

home. He he came straight. to my

1:20:32

house. He took me to meet his

1:20:34

mom me to first for the

1:20:36

first time. a where we

1:20:38

had a everyone everyone was. and

1:20:41

dancing and eating like the

1:20:43

the dream they really Jack's

1:20:45

mom who I'm actually really with

1:20:47

to this day. She's like a mother figure to

1:20:50

me. like a mother figure to me.

1:20:52

them as a family a saved

1:20:55

me. me during that

1:20:57

period. period. faith

1:21:01

once again. Yeah, faith. Yeah, once

1:21:03

again. didn't have faith you wouldn't

1:21:06

because if you didn't have... and

1:21:08

if you wouldn't have had the premonition. I mean I

1:21:10

imagine if you didn't have that. more

1:21:12

awful than what it was. Of course, but would have

1:21:14

been much more awful than these it

1:21:16

was. Of course, but because I

1:21:18

always have these of things I and see

1:21:21

these kind of things. something always and if

1:21:23

I'm being shown something's I'm

1:21:25

being shown and gonna happen the also at

1:21:27

the end of it though, you're gonna

1:21:29

be to be okay. It means I'm always being

1:21:31

guided to. to, so So even though

1:21:33

I've had that dream, a it's a catastrophe

1:21:35

and then it happens, but I'm also like,

1:21:37

well, at the end of the the end of

1:21:40

the dream, it felt okay, so

1:21:42

I'm to be all right. all

1:21:44

right. Just constant guidance. And you were all

1:21:46

right. were all right. temporarily

1:21:49

all right I was ready to throw myself

1:21:51

was ready to throw myself off a

1:21:53

building I when I really needed them they

1:21:55

they were there but of course the

1:21:57

the long-term damage. No, yeah in the I

1:21:59

mean moment I was okay because

1:22:02

of them. But when you say

1:22:04

immediate and I know you're joking

1:22:06

or you're not joking. As in

1:22:09

of no in the in the

1:22:11

short period where it sits worst

1:22:13

in the horrific moments when you

1:22:16

know I'm thinking crazy stuff and

1:22:18

feeling crazy stuff I might want

1:22:21

to do crazy stuff he and

1:22:23

his mother was there to get

1:22:25

me through that but then the

1:22:28

aftermath long term once I'm over

1:22:30

the immediate craziness that you know,

1:22:33

was a whole other secret healing

1:22:35

from that. When you think about

1:22:37

today, the environment around these tapes

1:22:40

are entirely different because there was

1:22:42

no legislation. What in, this is

1:22:45

2013, right? 2013. Yeah, so legislation.

1:22:47

No, 2012, the trial was 2013.

1:22:49

This is 2012. Okay, the trial

1:22:52

was 2013. Yeah. So legislation to

1:22:54

start in 2011, 2012 was the

1:22:57

tape, 2013 was the trial. Was

1:22:59

the trial. And so legislation didn't

1:23:01

come until 2015. Yeah. And then

1:23:04

I think Georgia Harrison, who I

1:23:06

recently met, who's incredible, yeah, she's

1:23:09

incredible, who she changed even increased

1:23:11

stipulations around in 2023. But after

1:23:13

2012, there was nothing. No. And

1:23:16

I was the bad guy in

1:23:18

2012. So the press, what does

1:23:21

the press do? To be honest,

1:23:23

when I think about the press,

1:23:25

I didn't, I couldn't look. I

1:23:28

couldn't look. I went and slept on my

1:23:31

bathroom floor. I locked myself in my bathroom

1:23:33

with a duvet and slept on my bathroom

1:23:35

floor. Really? Yeah. I had this thing when

1:23:37

I was a kid, when things were bad

1:23:39

in my house. I was the only room,

1:23:42

with a lock, when things were bad in

1:23:44

my house. I would, the only room with

1:23:46

a lock in it was my bathroom. So

1:23:48

I would go take my blanket and I

1:23:51

would lock myself in the bathroom. And I

1:23:53

was curling up in a ball on the

1:23:55

floor in a duvet. In a duvet. And

1:23:57

that's what I did until Jack. turned

1:24:00

up. up and up you get

1:24:02

out. And here you are on here

1:24:04

you are. show in the biggest

1:24:06

show in the UK. This

1:24:08

was supposed to be this moment for you. for

1:24:11

you. And this happens. You

1:24:13

This, this happens. to take the You

1:24:16

decided to take the perpetrator

1:24:18

to court, were and specifically

1:24:20

you were suing for. I

1:24:23

was suing because he had been

1:24:25

off the back of it doing front

1:24:27

magazine covers saying that I had sold

1:24:29

this tape and I I had done

1:24:31

this to promote myself. myself and the

1:24:33

most horrific the most horrific thing

1:24:35

in my eyes that had ever happened to

1:24:37

me. not and not only was he

1:24:39

torturing me by releasing it in the first

1:24:42

place, but then he was trying to say

1:24:44

that was trying to was the one to

1:24:46

release it and openly saying

1:24:48

that. saying that And that was why

1:24:50

I went off to him, like are are

1:24:52

going what you have done to me. to me.

1:24:54

And you won? Yes. Okay. And he

1:24:56

just he just simply admitted it

1:24:59

was it was him. was it. And

1:25:01

that was it? That was it.

1:25:03

But you was it. you know, you said that at

1:25:05

that point, you know, the, you you said

1:25:07

that at that point, you were

1:25:09

the, it's, were the, says this is You're

1:25:11

the victim, but yet issue, right? press says,

1:25:13

this is your problem, this is your

1:25:15

issue, right? You're the bad person. Even

1:25:18

to this day, you know,

1:25:20

we recently had Barton Barton Hansen on,

1:25:22

And she was talking about

1:25:24

about. an assault. In assault. was a

1:25:27

essence, it was assault that happened,

1:25:29

assault that happened. the her

1:25:31

opinion, the perpetrator of the

1:25:34

physical assault has had

1:25:36

no retribution who the and

1:25:38

I don't even know who the

1:25:40

perpetrator is, she's, the the perpetrators had

1:25:42

no retribution. This is a public

1:25:44

figure. This But she has had

1:25:46

to deal with it as the

1:25:48

victim the victim been penalized as a

1:25:50

result of this. result of that that time... I

1:25:52

I can't imagine. how you were

1:25:55

you were penalized for this. your,

1:25:57

how do do you think

1:25:59

your career? was impacted as a

1:26:01

result of the tape. Well,

1:26:03

it was a strange one

1:26:06

because I thought I would

1:26:08

get sacked off the back

1:26:10

of it. Some people would

1:26:12

say in a way it,

1:26:14

the most effed-up way possible,

1:26:16

it made me a bigger

1:26:19

star because of the amount

1:26:21

of press that went with

1:26:23

it. You had people like

1:26:25

50 cent and Drake... commenting

1:26:27

on it, you know what

1:26:29

I mean? It was something,

1:26:31

a scandal that went so

1:26:34

far across the board, which

1:26:36

for me I would have

1:26:38

said keep that. I don't

1:26:40

want it, if this is

1:26:42

how I have to get

1:26:44

it. But in ways, I

1:26:47

was no longer, I was

1:26:49

on the path of, you

1:26:51

know, being a family friendly.

1:26:53

celebrity that could do certain

1:26:55

things and you know be

1:26:57

okay with certain endorsements and

1:26:59

now I was back to

1:27:02

the Camden girl who was

1:27:04

just gonna have to own

1:27:06

it. It is what it

1:27:08

is. I'll be the bad

1:27:10

guy and I really at

1:27:12

that point that's when I

1:27:15

just was like I lost

1:27:17

all F's given to be

1:27:19

any version of myself. for

1:27:21

anyone but then on top

1:27:23

of it I was an

1:27:25

angry version of myself now

1:27:28

and I was very very

1:27:30

angry at all of it

1:27:32

because this was the reason

1:27:34

why if I wasn't this

1:27:36

famous and I wasn't in

1:27:38

this position and this predicament

1:27:40

this wouldn't be happening to

1:27:43

me I wouldn't feel what

1:27:45

I'm feeling and that's really

1:27:47

where my conflict with fame

1:27:49

and show business and the

1:27:51

contrived energy That's when that

1:27:53

really started to kick in.

1:27:56

Wow. Wow. Oh, wow, what

1:27:58

an what an

1:28:00

incredible story. by

1:28:02

this point, by this point, I've already

1:28:04

taken away so much from my

1:28:06

conversation with Telisa, and and it doesn't stop

1:28:08

there because we have a whole

1:28:10

second part to this interview, which we

1:28:12

will be releasing in a few

1:28:14

days' time. So make sure you subscribe

1:28:17

to our channel and hit the

1:28:19

notification bell to get notified for when

1:28:21

this for when this me. as, If

1:28:23

you like this episode, you will not

1:28:25

want to miss to miss Part Two. Next

1:28:27

time Need to Talk, I I

1:28:29

carry on my epic conversation with

1:28:31

Talisa. You're once again! once again. Have

1:28:33

a career that a career that you're

1:28:35

concerned about you you have press

1:28:37

attacking you. with with your mother.

1:28:39

You're on top top of that, you're

1:28:41

some of the most of the most

1:28:43

bizarre, scary stories I ever ever heard. could

1:28:45

could be a film. It It

1:28:47

was approached by a

1:28:50

big, well-known movie company There flew

1:28:52

to Las Vegas this class, the

1:28:54

scenes. When do you do you begin

1:28:56

to find out this not a movie role?

1:28:58

Find out the day they dropped

1:29:00

the story, which I was like, which I

1:29:03

was like, here we go. I literally and to

1:29:05

fear fear This was was

1:29:08

so tightly, These people

1:29:10

people are trying to kill me. What are

1:29:12

are you planning to do? like

1:29:14

like that starts to happen and it

1:29:17

felt like some Will Smith enemy in

1:29:19

the Smith enemy in the station. Rarely

1:29:21

am I speechless. happened. It

1:29:23

was like. It was like, I'm a a

1:29:25

celebrity. Yeah. What's that experience

1:29:27

like for you? like for you? Absolutely

1:29:29

roller co-star. I was terrified. Like,

1:29:32

I got the damn one determined

1:29:34

little bitch. I don't even say

1:29:36

anything more. The question was,

1:29:39

where's Teresa? Yeah. Lived multiple

1:29:41

lives, I think with

1:29:43

a knife a knife under my Most

1:29:45

of my life now. I I

1:29:47

know it sounds crazy. crazy. honestly,

1:29:49

hearing that story, it's not. it's not

1:29:52

because So,

1:30:11

You