0:40

Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for

0:40

creatives, business owners and entrepreneurs who want to

0:44

take control of their work and live life on their own terms.

0:44

I'm your host Emily Thompson. And this is a special episode,

0:51

in that it's one of the last episodes of Being Boss as you

0:51

know it. I'm joined by my friend and previous co hosts

0:58

Kathleen to dive into what's happening here, how I've come

0:58

to my decisions and begin peeking into what's next. This is

1:04

the first of the final five episodes that will take you on a

1:04

journey of what's worked, kind of work and hasn't worked in

1:11

this business, in this industry and economical environment.

1:11

And what's next for Being Boss. You can find all the tools,

1:18

books and links we reference on the show notes at

1:18

www.beingboss.club. And if you liked this episode, be sure

1:24

to subscribe to this show and share it with a friend. And

1:24

you should still subscribe because this is the end as we

1:29

know it. But we're not done.

1:36

Kathleen Shannon is the co founder and

1:36

former co host of the beam boss podcast joining me for the

1:41

first 240 ish episodes of this show with several one off

1:41

episode since. Kathleen is a partner and creative director

1:49

at Braid creative a branding agency she founded with her

1:49

sister over 10 years ago, Kathleen has always lived by

1:56

capturing, shaping and sharing who she is whether that's

1:56

with a blog post, a podcast or on social media. Hi,

2:04

Kathleen.

2:05

Hi, Emily.

2:07

Are you ready?

2:08

I'm ready. Let's do this.

2:10

Ready for some of the last episodes of what

2:10

the world knows as the Being Boss podcast?

2:15

I mean, have you told them already that

2:15

this is happening?

2:19

I mean, I think I'm going to do an intro to

2:19

this particular episode where I'm like, here's the stick.

2:26

But I do also just want to throw it in here that that's one

2:26

of the reasons why you come back for a little while, because

2:32

yeah, we haven't been very clear about that. I was telling

2:32

Kathleen a couple of months ago that, that this was coming.

2:38

And she was like, Well, let me come back and play as much as

2:38

I can. And I was like, Come on, girl. Let's do it.

2:43

Yeah, I mean, might as well.

2:45

How are you feeling about it?

2:45

Full circle. I mean, you know, I feel like

2:45

I'm thinking a lot about what I've learned from doing Being

2:51

Boss and leaving Being Boss and our relationship that's come

2:51

from it. And there's so many things that I could talk about.

3:03

And I'll talk about those maybe on our next episode that we

3:03

record on this. But really, at the end of the day, I feel

3:10

really excited for you. And I feel like nothing is

3:10

permanent. Everything is always changing. If you're always

3:17

trying to fit into what's been done and where you found

3:17

success, and you know trying to like just do the same thing

3:24

over and over and over again, you're going to stop growing,

3:24

you're not going to be pushing yourself into what could be

3:33

you're closing the door to new opportunities, because you're

3:33

scared of opening those doors, right? Because you gotta

3:39

close another door. Here I am with my terrible metaphors

3:39

again.

3:42

I think it may be what we're most known for

3:42

actually, of all the things that's actually it. No, I think

3:50

you're right, I think or I know, you're right, you're

3:50

absolutely right in saying those things. I think, or I see

3:58

people do it all the time, they do find success and one

3:58

little thing and they refuse to shift and change even though

4:03

the world does around them. And I think everyone will see

4:03

over the next couple of conversations that is that that

4:09

really is what this keeps coming back to is the world is

4:09

different. And it's time for a change. And I'm not going to

4:16

sit here and continue spinning my wheels or wishing the

4:16

world was different or whatever, I'm going to make necessary

4:23

changes to move in the directions where things just make

4:23

sense.

4:27

And I can't lie like there's a little part

4:27

of me that's kind of glad for me in a selfish way. Because

4:36

I'm not gonna have any more FOMO about it. You know, there

4:36

is with you having continued on with it where I can't help

4:43

but wonder did I make the right choice and I've been really

4:43

secure in my choice of having you buy me out in 2020. But

4:50

yeah, of course, there's moments where I missed you and I

4:50

missed what we created and I missed working together and I

4:56

missed the Being Boss community and the vacations and all

4:56

the things that we did. So it kind of reminds me of you

5:03

know, whenever I got divorced from my first husband, we

5:03

still had a house together for many, many years, even after

5:11

the divorce. And whenever we finally sold it, it was the

5:11

last thing kind of connecting us it felt like such a weight

5:18

off of my shoulders and this isn't that because you and I

5:18

still have a really tight relationship but not owning

5:26

anything together anymore is kind of I don't know it's like

5:26

it's it's just kind of feeling really clean slate in a way

5:34

because I'm so tied to what Being Boss is and I'm so are

5:34

tied to, you know, as having created that together that for

5:43

it to finally be changing into something else completely. It

5:43

feels like a release of sorts. What do you think about that?

5:53

Good.

5:53

Am I an asshole for saying that?

5:54

No, I love that for you. No, well, not for

5:54

that reason. Just kidding, you're not an asshole. No, no, I

6:03

think that's lovely. And I'm glad that you feel that way.

6:03

I'm glad that you have maintained, I mean, obviously, you

6:09

have. But I'm glad that you've maintained such a connection

6:09

to it that that you can feel that and that the feelings have

6:15

remained so good that you're not like, it's not like a It's

6:15

not like a sort of an angry release. But just like you've

6:22

missed it. And there has been a bit of FOMO. And now you

6:22

don't have to worry about it, we can just move on. And you

6:28

know, do whatever we're doing. So I think that's lovely. I'm

6:28

glad those are your feelings.

6:32

Yeah. So how do you want to do this

6:32

episode? Should we start with like a little bit of a recap,

6:39

starting with maybe when you bought me out? Because I would

6:39

say that was one of the big pivotal moments of change for

6:46

Being Boss, and it keeps, you know, there have been

6:46

iterations and changes along the way. So, you know, whenever

6:52

you bought me out and 2020, did you struggle with deciding

6:52

whether or not to keep it or to change it more drastically,

7:00

then? What was your vision at that point?

7:04

Yeah, I think this is a really great place

7:04

to start. Because as I've made these decisions, and move

7:10

forward, and I do, I also want to throw in here for like,

7:10

we'll talk about this a couple of times, but like I made the

7:15

decision that Being Boss would be making a very big pivot.

7:15

And we'll talk more about what that looks like. And all the

7:21

things for like, this is going to be a big unraveling

7:21

conversation over the next couple of episodes. But But and

7:28

one that I hope that I know will be woven with so many

7:28

important lessons for anyone doing business, which is

7:36

probably most of you listening. So I've gone back to that

7:36

time many times over the past year, because a year ago, I

7:44

made the decision that Being Boss is about to start making a

7:44

very big transition out of what it is either to no longer

7:51

exist or into something completely different. So it's been a

7:51

year that I've been sitting on this and sort of making my

7:58

maneuverings, and it really was going back to those

7:58

conversations that I was having with you and with David and

8:04

with myself more than anybody in 2019, 2020 when we started

8:04

a partial buyout in 2019, finished it and 2020. Those two

8:14

episodes in 2019, about the burnout and buyout were really

8:14

probably the last time we sort of had a strategic

8:21

conversation as to what's happening at Being Boss, like how

8:21

all of this is shaped up and why we're making the decisions

8:26

that we're making, et cetera. And at that point, I remember making sort of a loose promise

8:28

to myself. Not, like a like a like, I swear this is how it's

8:36

going to, you know, happen. But it was more like I I'm

8:36

committing myself in some capacity to giving Being Boss, a

8:44

good hard go alone for five years. Right. That was that was

8:44

like my marker. And now in 2023. That was four years ago,

8:55

like I'm getting I'm very much so getting to the strategic

8:55

end of something that I sort of said to myself way back

9:03

then. And so that's been a really big part of it, as as I

9:03

have gone through the past couple of years, has been really

9:10

looking at that five year timeline and going, you know,

9:10

we're getting closer and closer, what is this going to look

9:15

like? What's working, what's not working all of those

9:15

things. So it's four years in, I wanted to keep it because I

9:23

wasn't done yet. And you were which totally honored and love

9:23

that for you. I remember you several times saying like I've

9:30

said it, I've said everything that I need to say.

9:34

Yeah.

9:35

And I will say that like I've finally gotten

9:35

to that point, like I have felt that very much. So over the

9:40

past couple of are probably the past year. But in 2019 I

9:40

didn't feel that. I felt like I still had some things I

9:47

wanted to say and some things that I wanted to do. And I

9:47

just needed to I needed a bit more time to do it. And at

9:56

that point as well, Almanac was still a baby. And because I

9:56

wasn't gonna go get a job by any means. I was going to stay

10:07

in the business that was doing the thing that being Being

10:07

Boss, while I strategized a transition into Almanac. So it

10:16

was really a way for me I was buying myself time basically,

10:16

I was literally buying myself four, five, six years to make

10:25

Almanac into the business that I wanted it to be while

10:25

having the fallback of Being Boss doing the thing. And it

10:32

allowed me to keep a brand that we had already created and

10:32

put so much equity into it. To do the things that I most

10:40

wanted to do, and that was masterminds, events, and an

10:40

online community, those were the three things. Whenever I

10:49

bought the buyout, that was to be the business model, it was

10:49

something we had done all of those things for a long time,

10:56

in some capacity or another. Whenever I was imagining, you

10:56

know, shutting Being Boss down at that point, that's what I

11:02

was gonna go do until Almanac was big enough to support me

11:02

in the way that I wanted it to. But by keeping Being Boss, I

11:10

was able to do that under the brand that we had already

11:10

built. So I had given myself five years, I wanted to do

11:17

masterminds events, and the online community. And that's

11:17

what I did.

11:22

And those three things were all deal

11:22

breakers. For me, you had that vision, probably even before

11:28

the buyout. And that was part of me, like we that was

11:28

probably the most contentious part of our separation, which

11:36

is that vision for what's next. And I was like, I'm just

11:36

here to podcast, I and I had so much anxiety around the

11:43

events part of it, and the online community, and especially

11:43

going into 2020 things, just online, we're getting really

11:50

contentious and hostile and volatile, you know. So it's

11:50

interesting how moving along in your journey, as an

11:57

entrepreneur, as a business owner, as a person in the world,

11:57

in relationships, how it can kind of change past events a

12:05

little bit like it can change your, it can reform your

12:05

memories around things, right. So like, for example,

12:12

whenever you have a kid, it kind of makes you take a look

12:12

back at your own childhood and what that was, and you

12:19

remember things a little bit differently through the lens of

12:19

who you are now.

12:23

So one thing I just want to mention from my part of the

12:23

journey of Being Boss and that buy out and all of it is I

12:30

was under so much anxiety. And now having been on anti

12:30

anxiety medicine and getting some therapy for a little bit.

12:40

I can say I think that part of it, of me leaving and the

12:40

buyout and all of it was just crippling anxiety, like the

12:47

anxiety of like, what, what if someone gets hurt at one of

12:47

our events? Or what if we hurt someone's feelings in the

12:53

online community. What if there's a big, there's a lot of

12:53

like, just what is wrapped up in a lot of fear. And it was

13:00

fear that you didn't have. You had just the total confidence

13:00

going into it that it was going to work and be amazing. And

13:07

it did work for you. And it was amazing. So I'm curious if

13:07

through the lens of having grown, maybe even since the

13:15

beginning of Being Boss, but specifically since let's say

13:15

2020, since that was also kind of like a there's a before

13:23

and after, whenever it comes to 2020 in a being boss sense.

13:23

And then also in a world and global sense. So I'm curious to

13:31

hear from you has who you've become right now informed any

13:31

of your memories on that buyout or any of your feelings on

13:40

Being Boss over the past three years.

13:43

Great question. Yes and no. Yes or no. And

13:43

that I feel like so much of me is the same me or especially

13:53

like how I go at Being Boss and the things that I've wanted

13:53

from it and how we've moved forward. Yes, in that one of

14:01

those things was events. Right. And immediately upon almost

14:01

immediately upon starting a partial buyout. Well,

14:11

immediately I launched a conference, sold a lot of tickets,

14:11

paid a whole lot of money to a whole lot of vendors, and was

14:19

planning a whole ass conference in April of 2020. And I had

14:19

to cancel it a month before, lost enough money to make most

14:31

people barf in their mouth. Right, within the course of a

14:31

week. And I remember that being the point where you were

14:37

like, No, for real, though. I'm all the way out.

14:41

Yeah.

14:42

Right. Because that was like that was a

14:42

really ugly time, I think in the history of Being Boss and

14:47

not one that had anything to do with anything other than a

14:47

global pandemic that everyone was affected by, right. And

14:54

then for the next four years, no events. So that big piece,

14:54

which was a big piece for marketing, for revenue, for

15:04

community building, for really supporting all the other

15:04

things that I wanted to do was immediately cut out of even

15:12

like real possibility because I I was never going to do an

15:12

event in 2021 that was going to be a super spreader. Like I

15:20

was not trying to be the first one out of the conference

15:20

game again, even vacations and going to some of the places

15:26

that I was going I was hearing stories of people going out

15:26

in the world for the first time and losing their shit. Like

15:31

right like unable to control themselves in public places

15:31

where booze may be flowing free.

15:36

Right.

15:37

And things like that and Like, so I actually

15:37

got all of your anxiety around events. After that.

15:46

Your welcome.

15:46

And the team has tried to get me right many

15:46

times over the past couple of years to do another conference

15:54

or a vacation or whatever. We've set dates, half a dozen

15:54

times. And every time it gets time to actually doing it, I

16:02

cannot do it. I just cannot. And part of it's like PTSD from

16:02

losing all of that money. And part of it too, is I don't

16:11

want to be responsible for humans anymore, out in the real

16:11

world, not on that scale.

16:16

Right.

16:17

And so I definitely gained a lot, I gained

16:17

all of it. I took all of your anxiety around events and

16:24

instilled it in myself in a way that has, has kept me from

16:24

moving forward with like the number one reason that I wanted

16:32

to keep Being Boss, which has made this decision in this

16:32

time and space even easier, because I did want to do this

16:42

thing. And now that we're a couple years into it, like I

16:42

could probably start doing some things now and I've done

16:47

small retreats and I love doing those. But when it comes to

16:47

doing large scale ovens, I have literally zero desire.

16:57

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16:57

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17:04

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17:04

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17:11

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17:11

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17:19

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17:19

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17:24

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17:24

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17:32

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17:32

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17:41

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17:41

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17:57

So I'm curious to hear more about the

17:57

being boss business model, because whenever we were doing it

18:02

at the beginning, the business model was centered around

18:02

podcasting. And then as you bought me out in 2020, that

18:09

business model was going to pivot and kind of shift around

18:09

online community events, masterminds. How else has the model

18:19

changed? And how does like the podcasting arm of it still?

18:19

Like, how has that changed as well?

18:26

Yeah, so actually, in a lot of ways, it's

18:26

very much so the same, it's still very much so podcast

18:32

sponsors. And in the next episode, in particular, we're

18:32

going to talk about all how podcasting has changed, because

18:39

I think this is probably one of the most facet, one of the

18:39

most fascinating pieces of sort of being in this place, in

18:45

this business, in this moment is I have insight into the

18:45

podcasting industry, unlike most people, and I'm very

18:52

excited to dive into that and sponsor models has been.

18:55

I can not wait to talk about this.

18:56

It's been a huge part of it, a huge part of

18:56

it's gonna be it's gonna be a juicy on everybody. I got some

19:03

tea to spill. For sure. So I'm going to we're going to be

19:03

talking about that. But sponsors have have stayed the

19:13

majority of our business model. So revenue generation, that

19:13

has stayed very much so the same, for better or worse,

19:19

because there are definitely there have been pros and cons

19:19

to that. Community has made up a bit of it ongoing, I'd say,

19:27

you know, 10, 15, 20%, sort of fluctuating here and there

19:27

depending on what we're doing. And then obviously, events

19:34

have been zero. And we've done some other things, we still

19:34

have CEO day kit, we've played with a couple of other things

19:40

over time, and just sort of seeing what works and doesn't

19:40

work. But the hardest part about this, and I didn't really

19:47

recognize it until we couldn't do them anymore. And there

19:47

was a sort of an interesting fluctuation because in 2020,

19:53

when we lost the ability to do events, everyone needed

19:53

community, right. And so the online community actually did

20:01

really well in that time in a way that I don't think it

20:01

would have in quite the same capacity because everyone was

20:07

stuck at home and needed a space to connect with other

20:07

people. So the community did really, really well in 2020 as

20:13

we lost events, but then it became really obvious to me how

20:13

much our events had bolstered both our podcast and our

20:22

community over the years, how much that like really lended

20:22

to marketing and growth of the audience and of the community

20:31

and all of these things. And so by cutting that arm off, I

20:31

was walking around limbless I lost a very important part not

20:41

only of revenue generation in that one sort of arm itself,

20:41

but in how that one arm lended itself to the podcast and its

20:51

growth to the community in its growth. I had never really

20:51

seen or felt how big the impact was, until the impact was no

21:01

longer there.

21:03

Interesting. So, I want to hear more about

21:03

Almanac. So Almanac has been in business for how many years

21:10

now?

21:12

Five years. 2018.

21:15

So since 2018.

21:17

Yeah.

21:18

How has that changed since 2020. And

21:18

earlier, you did say that Being Boss was buying you some

21:24

time to kind of build up that business, what has happened

21:24

since 2020, for Almanac?

21:27

Lots of things, lots of things has happened

21:27

at Almanac and all really good things. And, again, I always

21:36

saw the buying of Being Boss, or like the full acquisition

21:36

of it as buying time for Almanac to do its thing. And that

21:43

five years that I get that timeline that I gave myself was

21:43

really like I'm going to need five years for Almanac to be

21:50

where it is that I want it to be. It was less so of like my

21:50

interest in Being Boss, though. I mean, that definitely

21:55

played a part in it. And more so of a strategic like, I'm

21:55

going to give myself five years to make Almanac amazing. So

22:02

that financially personally, I can make that transition in a

22:02

way that felt good. And we expected Almanac to take the

22:11

biggest hit in 2020. We immediately furloughed employees,

22:11

just to sort of like make sure that we were really hunkering

22:19

down in the way that we needed to took them off furlough way

22:19

quicker than we expected. Because everyone was sitting at

22:25

home shopping. And everyone just needed to pray on some

22:25

rocks that the world would be set right again, or whatever,

22:32

or like needed candles, because they're working at home and

22:32

their cat smell weird or like whatever.

22:36

Like we were getting all kinds of like all kinds of

22:36

customers coming to us and in a way that we never had. So

22:43

online sales for us in 2020, where amazeballs, as well as

22:43

2021. And we were doing some things like you know, more

22:50

online crystal parties that really took off in 2020. And

22:50

it's something that we're still doing now. We stayed in our

22:58

office space for a long time, we were doing shop by

22:58

appointments, we were just doing all of these things to keep

23:05

ourselves going and it was working. But also the environment

23:05

that we were in was really playing into our success as well.

23:13

People were at home, not shit else to do. Buying candles and

23:13

crystals. Loved that for them. And for us, for sure. And

23:21

then in 20 what was it 2021 I guess we got the opportunity

23:21

to open a small shop. It is the space that I'm currently

23:28

sitting in to record this episode and one of the cutest

23:28

neighborhoods in Chattanooga, I remember going to the

23:35

grocery store one day and looking over and there was a big

23:35

sign in the window, that this space is tiny space that used

23:43

to have an olive oil business in it. I came in here lots of

23:43

times along the way. And it was one of the businesses that

23:50

shut down during the pandemic, early pandemic. And so this

23:50

space was available. So we called the rent was hysterically

23:58

cheap. And we just got it, even though like it made no

23:58

sense. We're still in the middle of a global pandemic. How

24:05

are we going to open a shop I also remember tweeting at that

24:05

point. It was the week that Russia invaded Ukraine. And I

24:13

remember tweeting that, like, Would anybody sign a lease

24:13

right now? And everyone was like, Absolutely not.

24:20

Right?

24:22

Actually, that's a lie. I think we actually

24:22

signed that lease that was the second space. That was the

24:27

second space that we signed a five year lease. So okay,

24:27

first space though, we move into this small space. And

24:32

business just takes off because that summer everyone wanted

24:32

to like get out into the world again. And we went back and

24:38

forth in August whenever the that other variant came around.

24:38

We shut down the shop and did appointment only. And so there

24:46

was only one or two people masks required in the store. In

24:46

Tennessee, we were one of the last places that required

24:53

masks and got yelled out all the time. And y'all I loved it,

24:53

like come at me bro. Absolutely. So like we were doing

25:04

physical business in a really hard time. Nine months into

25:04

having this space. We got the opportunity to move across the

25:11

street in my dream space, which we've talked about here on

25:11

the show before I had wanted this space since before I had

25:18

Almanac it was like 10 years ago I was coming to Chattanooga

25:18

shopping in this cute little store in this space on the main

25:25

tourist strip in Chattanooga heard they were closing down

25:25

another sort of pandemic casualty.

25:32

And we snatched it as quickly as we possibly could. We did

25:32

sign that five year lease the week that Russia invaded

25:41

Ukraine. And I did not know if that was a good decision or

25:41

not. But it was all happening so easily that I kind of had

25:51

to. So Almanac went from, you know, barely supporting two or

25:51

three of us to now there's a team of a dozen of us doing the

26:03

thing we are selling so many rocks and candles, were

26:03

producing new product lines, we are growing online, we are

26:11

doing the thing in a way that feels so good and so easy,

26:11

especially compared to what Being Boss has become. That

26:21

it's, it's like night and day, the two companies in some

26:21

really interesting ways. So Almanac has really grown I, I

26:28

thought in 2019, when I was making that call, that it would

26:28

be five years that in five years, I would open a store, not

26:39

in two and a half years, I would open a store nine months

26:39

later open a bigger store. And then in five years, maybe

26:48

looking at store number two at some point in the near

26:48

future. Like I had no idea that Almanac would grow as

26:55

quickly as it did. And especially while I was straddling two

26:55

businesses, right, right. But things happen. And so we just

27:05

made it there a little faster than expected. So it's been

27:05

growing sometimes without even trying, which I love. And I'm

27:13

watching things work at Almanac in a way that they do not

27:13

work at Being Boss. And that's a really interesting

27:20

difference between online and offline business these days,

27:20

which I will be talking about in another episode to around

27:25

this because that's a really interesting insight that I

27:25

think everyone needs to know what I know or understand what

27:33

I see. Because it is it is like night and day between the

27:33

two businesses and Almanac has really done its thing.

27:42

I'm curious to hear more about Being Boss

27:42

just felt like such a personal project for both of us, we

27:49

were very much front and center the faces of it. And I know

27:49

for me since leaving Being Boss, it's kind of in really nice

27:56

to be a little less front facing, you know, like, I will

27:56

always love a camera, I will always love kind of being the

28:05

center of attention. But since leaving Being Boss for me, I

28:05

mean a couple of things. One, it's been really nice to just

28:13

kind of go behind the scenes a little bit more and just to

28:13

get my hands in and do the work on branding and graphic

28:19

design and all of the things that I'm best at. So I'm

28:19

curious to hear more from you about that as it relates to

28:26

Almanac. Are you front and center whenever it comes to

28:26

Almanac or are you looking forward to being a little bit

28:31

more behind the scenes? What's that experience going to be

28:31

like? Or what do you imagine that experience is going to be

28:36

like for you?

28:38

Yeah, it's not even what is what it's going

28:38

to be like it's a playing factor in all of this 100% And

28:44

it's something that really sort of came to a head for me

28:44

last year. Last year we were at Being Boss sort of playing

28:52

with a couple of options still trying to like skirt around

28:52

doing events. I was like guys I'm not doing events we're

28:59

gonna do other things like what are we going to do and I was

28:59

like you know everyone's always want a group coaching like

29:03

would it be like if we did a group coaching. Team was super

29:03

into it we did it we sold it, launch did not go as well as I

29:09

would have liked it was a really great time. Super glad we

29:09

did it had went through two really great groups. But what I

29:16

realized at that point and it was so stark because Almanac

29:16

the store was probably six months into being if if even that

29:26

at that point. And it was very clear to me my role in the

29:26

two businesses and just how different they were of like yes,

29:38

I'm the owner, I'm strategizing I'm like planning and

29:38

putting things in place and all of these things but at Being

29:44

Boss and I've mentioned this before around here at some

29:44

point at Being Boss because it's still a very personal brand

29:50

and I've very intentionally taken my face away from the

29:50

brand as much as I can. Because it is still a very personal

29:59

brand over the years but at Being Boss to sell anyone

29:59

anything more or less. I have to sell you two times. I have

30:08

to sell you on me first and then I have to sell you on the

30:08

thing which is a lot of selling in general.

30:20

At Almanac you're just gonna buy a rock.

30:26

Right.

30:26

I mean, there is a vibe for sure. And there

30:26

is a product but it is not the same thing. And so about a

30:33

year ago it really came became really clear to me that I

30:33

being boss, I am here selling all the things. And I do have

30:39

helped with like selling sponsorships, but even then it's

30:39

like my face on that podcast avatar, it is my voice on the

30:45

thing, it is me, you know speaking the ads and all of these

30:45

things. Whereas at Almanac, no one cares who I am or what I

30:52

do. No one, like, and I'm not selling anything unless I am

30:52

doing a shift in the store, which happens maybe once a

31:00

month, right. And so this, the entire business of Almanac is

31:00

constantly going regardless of how really involved I am.

31:10

Whereas at Being Boss, I am there like chugging it along

31:10

constantly. And it's something that I see in all of my

31:16

friends who have very personal brands or who are coaches or

31:16

service providers or whatever it may be, there is this whole

31:23

other level of being in the business that is required that I

31:23

don't have to do it Almanac. And instead, I can use all that

31:31

time strategizing, and actually doing things that are moving

31:31

the business forward in a way that makes me feel more

31:40

impactful in that business than I do in this one, which is

31:40

kind of trippy to think about whenever you think about a

31:47

show that has like 12 million downloads and like, you know,

31:47

on top of all things, whatever it may be, I don't feel very

31:54

impactful here. And I know that like there are some like

31:54

self limiting beliefs around like, and I probably wouldn't

32:01

feel that way if I were actually interacting with our

32:01

audience at events.

32:05

Right.

32:05

But there is still a difference of I know

32:05

that the work that I do at Almanac is going to move us

32:09

forward whereas I have been explaining it for years at Being

32:09

Boss, I feel like I'm constantly pulling teeth.

32:17

Right.

32:18

Over and over again. So that has definitely

32:18

played into it. I feel like a better business owner at

32:24

Almanac more capable of doing the work that I am here to do

32:24

as a business owner at Almanac than I am at Being Boss.

32:36

Settling yourself into the flow of your business from

32:36

navigating a whole year of ebbs and flows into embracing the

32:42

energy of each and every day, you're bound to have some ups

32:42

and downs along the way. For me, this journey of

32:48

entrepreneurship is made better when my space keeps me

32:48

focused and inspired. As an example, my favorite way to mark

32:55

the beginning and ending of the workday is to light a candle

32:55

when I sit down at my desk and then blow it out when I'm

33:01

done for the day. It's a little ritual that creates

33:01

boundaries and a vibe that keeps me focused and feeling

33:06

cozy. And the ritual candle that we make at Almanac Supply

33:06

Co is my favorite for this. In fact, my whole shop is filled

33:14

with items that have curated to create the vibe for feeling

33:14

connected and flow and inspired with candles, crystals and

33:21

other goodies to help them create a dreamy workspace bedside

33:21

table or bookshelf. Come gather inspiration and check out my

33:28

favorite and stock items at almanacsupplyco.com/beingboss

33:28

and get 15% Off with code beingboss at checkout. That's

33:38

almanacsupplyco.com/beingboss

33:47

That has certainly been my experience at

33:47

Braid Creative in the past three, four years since leaving

33:52

Being Boss, our business has grown times 10. Since I've been

33:52

able to purely focus just on Braid Creative. So there is

34:01

something to be said for you know diversifying in business

34:01

and I'm sure that Almanac is not going to be your last

34:08

business, you know, but there is something to be said for

34:08

being able to put all of your focus in one place. So how do

34:17

you imagine putting all of your focus into Almanac like,

34:17

what do you imagine your days are going to look like?

34:24

Well, I've actually been experiencing that a

34:24

little bit more over the past probably month or two. Because

34:31

you know, as we do these episodes, I batch things and so

34:31

actually haven't been recording and like not even

34:38

strategizing for really next episodes because I knew we were

34:38

coming to the end of what this is at this moment. And so

34:44

I've really been able to just be at Almanac and do my job

34:44

there. And my god, the fun things that we have done. I've

34:52

been able to dive into some really amazing projects, and

34:52

really make some great impact on what we're doing and do

34:59

things that are legitimately fun. Like I'm not reinventing

34:59

wheels, and I'm not fixing things that shouldn't be broken.

35:06

But because online business is what it is. These days

35:06

everything is breaking all the time. Nothing works the same

35:11

way. I'm able at Almanac to be a little more slow and a

35:11

little more intentional and way more creative and purposeful

35:19

with what I'm doing and it feels amazeballs, like really

35:19

great and my calendar is so much more empty, and or empty of

35:29

meetings and things and so much more like full of like large

35:29

blocks of time where I can do creative work that I love it

35:39

so far, absolutely love it.

35:42

And the focusing really is a big part for me. You know, we

35:42

talked earlier in the year, our words of the year, and I

35:49

very intentionally chose my word focus, because I knew this

35:49

was coming. And I knew that I needed to set that word for

35:57

myself to like, hold myself accountable to doing this

35:57

because I say all this, and I love Being Boss. I love what

36:06

we've built here. I have held on to this thing this long,

36:06

because I don't want to let like there is a part of me that

36:13

does not want to let what we have been doing go. But if I

36:13

could focus my energy on Almanac, Holy shit, like, that

36:24

would be amazing, like the impact that I could make in that

36:24

company. Yes, 10 times growth. Absolutely, I will take that

36:33

for sure if a little bit of focus will take me there. And I

36:33

think it can for sure. So I've definitely, and I want to say

36:40

too, that that's new for me as well. Of over the past year

36:40

or so, and it's funny because I even think now I'm about at

36:49

the age that you were like, in years, when you were like I

36:49

can't. Like I don't want to split my focus. Like I don't

36:59

have the energy for it like I'm there. And I don't have the

36:59

energy to split my focus between two things anymore, my like

37:05

capacity to multi plan has shrunk so much. And not even the

37:05

capacity has shrunk. That's part of it. But like I don't

37:15

even want to, I don't want to split my attention in that way

37:15

anymore. I want to focus. So that's a bit of a, I'll call it

37:25

a growth thing for me is that I want to focus on just one

37:25

thing, both because I like personally want to. And secondly,

37:34

I want to make the impact that I can make when I do.

37:38

So I know that big changes can for lack of

37:38

better words, like hurt feelings, you know, like it can,

37:47

especially the feelings of our listeners, right. And so I

37:47

know that our listeners felt a certain way whenever I left.

37:54

And I know that listeners will feel a certain way hearing

37:54

these big changes coming up. And I just want to acknowledge

38:01

that it might hurt their feelings. And that's valid, like

38:01

it's totally valid because we have created parasocial

38:11

relationships. You know, like, your voice has been in their

38:11

ears now for five, six years, however long it's been,

38:19

they've come to know you, they've come to know us. And so I

38:19

think that it's really valid to be a little bit sad.

38:25

Whenever my favorite podcasters stop podcasting, I'm like,

38:25

oh, like, I'm gonna miss them. You know. And there's also

38:32

the real relationships of all of the people that you and I

38:32

have helped through either reading our book, or buying the

38:39

CEO Day Kit or being in coaching with us or coming to the

38:39

Being Boss vacations and having a really good time. And I

38:46

suppose what I want those listeners to know is that this big

38:46

change has nothing to do with them. It's it doesn't have

38:58

anything to do with them in a way that like you were making,

38:58

like we're breaking up with you. Right, like so it has

39:06

everything to do with you, Emily, and kind of your vision

39:06

for what's next. So I'm curious to hear, do you have

39:13

anything that you want to say to listeners whenever it comes

39:13

to making this huge change? And what that's going to mean

39:20

for them even?

39:22

I'm not breaking up with the audience by any

39:22

means. And there are plans, right? I've one of the things

39:29

that got me to this place. And one of the reasons too that I

39:29

want it to be in Almanac so much more is this idea of

39:35

assets, right of business assets. So we've been working for

39:35

being or excuse me, at Almanac, I have a bank account made

39:43

of crystals, right? Like I have physical assets that are

39:43

worth dollar bills. And at Being Boss, one of the things

39:52

that really got me a couple of years ago was that we have no

39:52

physical assets. I've been, we've been busting our ass for

39:57

almost a decade, almost a decade and what do we have to show

39:57

for it? I mean, the people are amazing, amazing friendships

40:07

for real. But like on a spreadsheet, if I were to go to

40:07

accountant and they were be like, What are your assets?

40:11

Like? I own a couple of laptops. Right? I got a really nice

40:11

microphone. But there is like this digital asset that is

40:20

this podcast feed, right this podcast feed and all of its

40:20

subscribers and downloads and like meta stuffs, right is my

40:30

most valuable asset in this company.

40:34

It's not 100% going away, there are plans and we'll be

40:34

getting into that in the next couple of episodes. So I do

40:39

want to say that. And it is one because this is an asset.

40:39

And two because creating content in this way, is something

40:49

that I have done for so long, but I can't imagine completely

40:49

not doing it. Here's where the big changes are coming,

40:55

though, is I am done with two industries. Done with them.

41:01

Let's hear it.

41:03

One is podcasting down with the podcasting

41:03

industry. period, when we come back, what we're going to be

41:10

doing is going to be so different. And so I don't give a

41:10

fuck. When it comes to like, what is standard in the

41:17

podcasting industry, and what sponsors expect from you in

41:17

the podcasting industry. Like, I'm going to come back and do

41:25

this in the way in a way that we've really never done it,

41:25

which I'll talk about that a bit more, so I'm not leaving

41:32

you. What I am leaving is podcasting as we know it. Two the

41:32

other industry that I'm leaving, is this, like, small

41:47

business help industry.

41:50

Yeah.

41:51

In a way that I have felt for a couple of

41:51

years, and it has less to do with. I mean, it really just,

41:58

it has everything to do with a couple of things. One, I said

41:58

it, right, if you need any help on anything, there is an

42:04

episode here somewhere where you can get exactly how I think

42:04

about it. You want to talk about sales, or marketing, or

42:12

branding, or hiring or firing, or like any hundreds of

42:12

episodes, millions of downloads, it is here, it is

42:20

absolutely here for you. And I can't keep having those

42:20

conversations over and over again. Or I'm gonna go mad.

42:27

Another is just like, who I'm playing in my sandbox with,

42:27

not impressed. Not interested, don't want to hang out with

42:36

these folks, don't want to be associated with most of them.

42:36

I don't want to be in the same crowd who's selling

42:43

blueprints and courses with absolutely no value, it has made

42:43

my job impossible to do what I want to do, to do what I

42:53

think you deserve when everyone else is under selling me but

42:53

also delivering zero value, or very little value in a way

43:02

that I don't want to play here anymore. I want to go play

43:02

with rocks and crystals, I want to build manufacturing

43:08

processes. And I want to grow my local like, like merchant

43:08

council for my neighborhood. And I want to do those things

43:18

that's going to bring a different kind of impact with people

43:18

who are my peers that I respect in the things that they're

43:26

doing. And so it's not about quitting my audience. It's

43:26

about quitting these two, industries, and instead focusing

43:33

on both creating content in a way that allows me to feel

43:33

like I'm being creative and creating something for myself

43:45

and my audience, not my sponsors. And even more for myself

43:45

than my audience, which I think is everyone's like, what,

43:54

you're not going to be listening to your audience slash

43:54

customers. Correct. For a very long time.

43:58

You know that is like, my number one

43:58

branding tenant, like, I know that so many branding agencies

44:05

are like, don't you cannot think about yourself, like you

44:05

just have to look at your dream customer and what it is that

44:10

they want. And I wholeheartedly disagree. I think that

44:10

whenever you are passionate and revved up about what you're

44:16

doing, it will attract the people that it needs to attract.

44:20

Yeah.

44:21

So amen to that.

44:23

Yeah. So basically, if you're, if your

44:23

feelings are hurt, I'm Sorry, if you're not paying my bills,

44:29

I don't care. I'm glad that you created some sort of

44:29

attachment. If you are not like paying for this content, or

44:38

part of the community or bought CEO Day kit or any of those

44:38

things like not you don't I don't need to hear about it. If

44:44

you are part of my community, like my community, you are

44:44

like part of the clubhouse you are a CEO Day user, all of

44:52

those things. Keep listening because there are some fun

44:52

things coming for sure. And the goal is not to like leave

44:59

like the community will still exist for at least some time

44:59

beyond this. What is absolutely changing is this show. This

45:08

show is making a big pivot. And it's because I want to get

45:08

back to creating content in the way that I most want to

45:15

create it. And I want to do content that I feel good about

45:15

in a space that I feel good about.

45:21

Also, my team is here for this because my team has been here

45:21

helping me fix the broken wheels. Right, put out the fires,

45:33

figure out the strategies in this small business space

45:33

enough that they see that we're just spinning wheels. There

45:41

is too much competition playing too many stupid games, for

45:41

anything of value to stand out at all. And so whenever we go

45:51

whenever we make the switch between Being Boss and Almanac,

45:51

because they're working on both things, they love working on

45:57

Almanac stuff. Because the things we do matter, needles

45:57

actually move. And I've seen this across, you know, well,

46:06

yeah, we'll talk about this more. But there's this

46:06

difference between online offline and this moment. And like,

46:11

where you're sort of straddling that bridge, if you are

46:11

whatever, also, but like, niching, is something that has

46:17

come up for me so much over the past couple of months. I

46:17

know. I know, you have always been a huge fan of niching. I

46:25

think relatively recently, you were like, No, Jane of all

46:25

trades, right?

46:30

I go back and forth constantly. I'm like,

46:30

if you want to make money, you gotta niche if you want to

46:36

learn how to be well rounded, and be able to do it all

46:36

yourself, as a business owner, you've got to figure out how

46:42

to do it all. So I see, actually, you know what, I see a

46:42

case for both. And it's really just comes down to what it is

46:49

that you want, and what your vision for yourself is, I think

46:49

you can do it both ways. But if you want to make money, like

46:55

real money, you got to niche.

46:58

You got a niche. And I feel like for too

46:58

long being bought, so actually no, not even too long.

47:02

Whenever Being Boss started, we were niche. Right? We were

47:07

Yeah.

47:07

Two female podcasters, which like, did not

47:07

exist on the top charts of like business podcasts on Apple,

47:14

we were the first ones. Two female podcasters talking about

47:14

business to creatives. No one else was doing that. We were

47:22

like, first out the gate, we were the niche. Now everyone in

47:22

their brother is doing the same thing for the same people in

47:30

the same way saying the exact same things. More or less,

47:30

right? We are no longer a niche. We are just one in the sea.

47:40

Right?

47:40

Right.

47:41

So the goal now is to re-niche is to stop

47:41

being for all creative business owners, stop talking about

47:49

all the topics for creative business. And instead get in

47:49

there with our little wedge that we're already in the

47:57

business.

47:58

Yeah, just be the business.

48:00

Yeah. Just be the business and talk about

48:00

things. Talk about things that we're seeing moves the

48:07

needle, because that's actually been a this lesson for me

48:07

came through the past, probably 18 months, the team and I've

48:16

been doing a lot of work in search engine optimization, like

48:16

a whole lot of work, and SEO, both for Being Boss and on

48:22

Almanac. And we started at Being Boss. Being Boss is the

48:22

more sort of well founded brand we've been here longer a

48:29

website has more content, like we should be able to do the

48:29

work there and get all the rankings we want with, you know,

48:35

little to no effort more or less ideally. And so we started,

48:35

you know, identifying what we were going to work on, we

48:41

started doing it, nothing was happening at all. And so we

48:41

started diving into it and really like too much competition,

48:49

like I'm up against Forbes and Entrepreneur and Inc

48:49

Magazine. And like all if we're talking branding or

48:55

marketing or and that's just the couple big fish, there's

48:55

like 40 million other smaller fish of varying sizes along

49:03

the way. And we're just one. Almanac, we've been doing some

49:03

SEO work. I feel like I'm cheating. Like, I'm not. I'm just

49:15

doing the work. But I'm doing it in such a niche. That

49:15

competition is not there and not playing on my level because

49:25

crystal folks don't know SEO on the same level that a

49:25

previous or like current I guess business podcaster knows

49:32

SEO. And so literally, for the team watching us do work in

49:32

one brand and it not matter and that literally not matter

49:45

versus doing work in another brand and it literally making

49:45

us dollar bills has been the craziest thing to see and in a

49:55

way that I thought that getting them to transition over to

49:55

Almanac was gonna be hard. And, and I will say like Corey

50:02

editing this who you all have heard from sad about this.

50:02

He's he's probably more sad about this than I am. Because

50:08

Corey has been here from the beginning. And he'll stay he's

50:08

gonna continue doing all the things that he's doing.

50:15

But it's been easier to talk them into a transition, because

50:15

they see that when they work on things at Almanac out of

50:23

this podcast in small business, not niche anymore, that

50:23

their work actually matters in a way that it doesn't over

50:32

here at all. So it's been it's been a wild ride and one that

50:32

like When I think about what my feelings are around this is

50:42

so maybe past time like I'm so at peace with like these

50:42

being the last couple episodes of this like version of Being

50:52

Boss. I will miss it I think a little bit but like all in

50:52

all, it's time and if I hang on for another second I've hung

51:01

on too late or long or whatever.

51:05

Amen. Do the work, be boss.

51:11

And done and done. Well actually before we

51:11

are done I do want to let everyone know that Kathleen is

51:17

coming back for one more episode we're gonna talk about

51:17

podcasting industry. This one I think could get a little

51:24

juicy I want to talk about so think about like, you know,

51:24

our times as sponsors and like content creation.

51:31

Oh I have so many things to say probably,

51:31

for me the perspective coming from being a podcast listener

51:39

and you from being a Podcast Producer and both of us having

51:39

done all of the things with podcasting and hitting the right

51:46

place at the right time and sponsor Yes, I cannot wait to

51:46

dive in on this one.

51:50

It's gonna be a go and sneak peek it the

51:50

podcast industry is cannibalizing itself.

51:55

Oh, yeah.

51:56

Cannot wait to share more on that one. So

51:56

definitely make sure you come back for the next one. And

52:00

then I have two more episodes with my business besties about

52:00

more of like, what this decision has been like and what the

52:10

future of this show and where my efforts are going is going

52:10

to be because we've talked about the end and this is the end

52:19

this is the end of Being Boss as we know it 100% I'm done in

52:19

a way that I feel really great about and I feel like I've

52:27

given you all everything I've got everything I've got, but

52:27

I'm not done. And this podcast feed is not done and I will

52:38

not diverge completely. But I will be focusing niching in on

52:38

an area that I don't think is going to surprise anybody.

52:47

Basically, once we actually get there. So thanks Kathleen

52:47

for coming in and digging this out of me. That sounds

52:55

disgusting. I can't wait for the next one. It's gonna be I

52:55

think quite the ending.

53:01

Thanks for having me.

53:04

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