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1:00

Too Aggressive? Yeah, like is it

1:02

going too fast? Or is it

1:04

just an absolute level of

1:07

conviction? But that's the way you

1:09

win, isn't it, by going fast?

1:11

I think so. But can you

1:13

win, isn't it, by going fast?

1:15

I think so. But can you

1:18

lose from here? And that's what

1:20

I don't think you can. I

1:22

think he might be past losing.

1:24

I think if he was going

1:26

to lose, it was going to

1:28

be last cycle. Yeah. What you lose

1:30

to America, okay? Like a big deal.

1:32

But he might not even lose to

1:34

them. No, he might lose to who knows

1:36

like I mean he might not lose

1:38

to anyone That's what I mean because he's

1:40

just is a steam train like just

1:43

freight train just like eating him up

1:45

because I was talking to your brother

1:47

about this a minute ago Yeah, so

1:49

I was in Austin recently. Yeah, and

1:51

I was talking about I don't want

1:54

to say who just in case he

1:56

doesn't want me to say who it was

1:58

sure but he was and he told me that

2:00

when this plan was first like put

2:02

into place the idea was that this

2:04

will start the conversation yeah we'll start

2:06

at the extreme it'll get it'll get

2:08

pulled back and we might end up

2:10

buying 300,000 Bitcoin by the bill by

2:12

the time the bill actually passed yeah

2:14

and he was like with everything that's

2:16

happened yeah in DC over the last

2:18

however many week he's like fuck this

2:20

thing actually is gonna pass it as

2:22

it is yeah I'm pretty sure this

2:24

thing's actually gonna happen's actually gonna happen

2:26

and so but the thing is though

2:28

if the US are mandated by a

2:30

million Bitcoin a million Bitcoin by a

2:32

million Bitcoin yeah I mean they have

2:34

to do it regardless of price right

2:36

yeah but that is the only way

2:38

I see the US guessing passator at

2:40

this point because otherwise I don't see

2:42

because they're not going to print money

2:44

to buy a Bitcoin they definitely don't

2:46

want to yeah like that's been a

2:48

thing like it's got to come from

2:50

nowhere sort of thing like they're happy

2:52

to do it and allocate but it's

2:54

got to be like nickel and dime

2:56

to find these pockets of not that

2:58

are not going to be basically affecting

3:00

Taxpayers. And they've got a lot of

3:02

shit to deal with right now. They've

3:04

got a ton on top of the

3:06

list. Like it seems pretty high up

3:08

the list, higher up the list than

3:10

I thought it was going to be.

3:12

Way higher and treated way more seriously,

3:14

I think. But you know, like they've

3:17

got a lot of people around them

3:19

in the crypto space and obviously Bitcoin

3:21

space and stuff like that. And those

3:23

people have money. They're, you know, at

3:25

the end of the day, they're not

3:27

trying to become a Bitcoin or straight

3:29

away. They're still their professional life is

3:31

they're a politician and they've got to

3:33

secure their future as a politician. So

3:35

like, you know, you've got like the

3:37

national, like what is it, the NRA,

3:39

right? The big guys, they've got heaps

3:41

of funding and stuff and they keep

3:43

that relationship and they preserve that relationship

3:45

because it's value aligned. you know, like

3:47

XRP is the new NRA almost. They're

3:49

trying. But I mean, like it's like,

3:51

is he an idiot? Well, look, yeah,

3:53

I don't think he's trying to figure

3:55

out sound money. He's trying to figure

3:57

out how to make sure he secures

3:59

the future for, you know, his party

4:01

or whatever. And I think there's obviously,

4:03

but one becomes the other, like we've

4:05

all had our journeys into this space.

4:07

No one started perfectly understanding, at least

4:09

I didn't. I'm like you know it's

4:11

I'm still getting it like you know

4:13

what I mean I feel like you

4:15

learn something new every day from someone

4:17

that's focused on it from a tiny

4:19

different perspective and then they they've really

4:21

sharpened it like they've gone mile inch

4:23

wide mile deep on it on one

4:25

specific thing but yeah I mean they're

4:27

learning curve will evolve like and you

4:29

just seen like Eric Trump join the

4:31

board of advisors I think for Metoplanet.

4:33

That is a weird one. Well I

4:35

think it's just getting, it might be

4:37

something like, like let's slice it a

4:39

couple of ways, right? You know, for

4:41

personal benefit? Sure. Like who does it

4:43

act in self-interest in personal benefit? Like

4:45

in their life, like that's what it's

4:47

about. So like I don't have any

4:49

problems with that. Yeah. And we want

4:51

to make sure that the US is...

4:53

the biggest highest concentration of Bitcoin standard

4:55

companies because that's gonna be the highest

4:57

concentration of performance to be made. And

4:59

so, you know, if markets aren't, let's

5:01

say, pumping from artificial motivations, but they're

5:03

actually migrating to a new standard of

5:05

your unit of account that's more successful,

5:07

then that's a really powerful, organic, like,

5:09

foundation. Like, it's a lot sturdier, right?

5:11

Do you think we're there yet, though?

5:13

No, but if I was starting a

5:15

hedge fund today, like I was talking

5:17

to you about before. like the best

5:19

performing hedge fund that starts today will

5:21

probably be the one that picks all

5:23

the pre-bitcon standard companies and picks them

5:25

if you pick them in order of

5:27

adoption correctly and you wait your bet

5:29

sizes by that the sooner you go

5:32

on to a Bitcoin standard the sooner

5:34

you the bigger returns you'll get the

5:36

sheen and shine will wear off becoming

5:38

a Bitcoin company as it gets normalized

5:40

as it becomes common sense it's not

5:42

going to be oh there a Bitcoin

5:44

standard coming cool let's buy in heaps

5:46

more than we should and we're over

5:48

inflating their price or whatever it is.

5:50

So I think having someone that's very

5:52

close to the president right there. at

5:54

the heartbeat, you know, surrounded by these

5:56

people that are industry veterans, right? Like,

5:58

that have been around for a long

6:00

time, and being as close to the

6:02

subject matter as possible, which is the

6:04

case study of a company that's basically

6:06

gone from zero to hero, a Cinderella

6:08

moment, how did you become Cinderella, and

6:10

how legit was this, you know, process?

6:12

Did you get any of the liposuction,

6:14

or have you been training him? Like,

6:16

training him, like training your brain to

6:18

adopt a better cerebral physical work, so...

6:20

So that's interesting because, like, one- I

6:22

mean, that feels fair. I don't know.

6:24

That's definitely fair. Yeah. But one thing

6:26

that I thought would happen after, say,

6:28

that came out in 2020 or 21,

6:30

whenever it was, was that we'd see

6:32

a whole wave of this. Like, I

6:34

thought it was obvious. Yeah. And it

6:36

never happened. Yeah. But now, I just

6:38

spoke to your brother about this, but

6:40

it's new, so we'll talk about it

6:42

again. Yeah. Game Stop. I think it's

6:44

really big. One, like, Metoplanet, I always

6:46

kind of consider, like, don't get me

6:48

wrong, what they've done is incredible. Of

6:50

course, different frame of reference, though, I

6:52

got any company, who have done amazingly

6:54

well. It'll be a different case. But

6:56

Game Stop are, like, culturally very significant.

6:58

Yes. They have a whole host of

7:00

people who, like, believe in this stock

7:02

on the mark. Oh yeah. And the,

7:04

like, the demographics of those people is

7:06

like, disenfranchised youth that hate Wall Street,

7:08

hate, like, like the elites, like, like,

7:10

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

7:12

like, the elites, like, the elites, like,

7:14

like, like, the elites, like, like, the

7:16

elites, like, like, like, like, the elites,

7:18

like, like, the elites, like, like, like,

7:20

the elites, the elites, like, like, like,

7:22

the elites, like, like, like, like, the

7:24

elites, like, the elites, like, like, and

7:26

want to see that thing burn down.

7:28

Yeah. In comes Bitcoin and it's like

7:30

we've got the tool for that. Yes.

7:32

Come on. Join the team. And the

7:34

guy, the champion, the soldier in the

7:36

fight, he's about to bring that. It's

7:38

like Zelda, like when you get like

7:40

a level up or a new shield,

7:42

it's mad. That's like Game Stop's got

7:44

this like Bitcoin shield, which is just

7:47

basically going to be relevant forever. No,

7:49

but if they become a massive sack

7:51

of Bitcoin's that produce great content or

7:53

still have their stuff going, wow, they're

7:55

going to be superheroes. I mean, they're

7:57

barely relevant now. Yeah, but they're almost

7:59

relevant. because of like I mean they

8:01

had that huge thing with roaring kitty

8:03

and so it was epic and like

8:05

I think it was a really cool

8:07

thing like I just thought it was

8:09

a really interesting thing like all the

8:11

Wall Street bets shit and stuff like

8:13

it was mad and then like I

8:15

think this is like a next thing

8:17

and that whole audience that is supportive

8:19

of them they're very they get it

8:21

like they understand the problem and the

8:23

solution and they can see this like

8:25

getting married up so I think it

8:27

will become another really interesting case study

8:29

now you're gonna see it gives companies

8:31

a second chance at life and it

8:33

basically says hey if your business has

8:35

gone into let's say it's been what's

8:37

the term we're obsolete you know like

8:39

video easy or like you know like

8:41

blockbuster video or like you know blockbuster

8:43

video or something yeah if blockbuster video

8:45

was around and they had a massive

8:47

balance sheet of bitcoins because they believed

8:49

in it blockbusters still around and they're

8:51

going to see a lot of companies

8:53

that the juice won't be worth the

8:55

squeeze. And so, oh, we're a company,

8:57

we do 600 different products and we

8:59

do them all like sort of okay

9:01

mad. And it's like, okay, cool, we're

9:03

not gonna be fuck doing that anymore

9:05

because we don't wanna have 600 phone

9:07

calls, people don't wanna be in fucking

9:09

concrete buildings all day. Okay, well, why

9:11

don't we pick a couple of products

9:13

and just really go awesome on them?

9:15

A massive reduction in consumption. So. We're

9:17

not going to have like we buy

9:19

new chairs every week. No, it's going

9:21

to be like our grandparents. No, this

9:23

is our grandparents chair has been there

9:25

for 30 years. It's handcrafting. There's very

9:27

good ones. Exactly. Like this whole like

9:29

churn and burn of just all your

9:31

shit. Yeah. People can't be fucked. And

9:33

like our dopamine is getting worn down

9:35

too, which is making these these exercises

9:37

less appealing to us as well. So

9:39

we're going to want less so we

9:41

could have to worry about less and

9:43

fuck around around with less and fuck

9:45

around with less. Their whole audience is

9:47

brilliant, in my opinion, like clued in,

9:49

let's say, clued in, right? Doesn't matter

9:51

if they're... 10 or 25 or 45

9:53

or 100 like they're all learning from

9:55

the same source which is the same

9:57

the forums a chat this experience like

10:00

this feeling like the heat basically of

10:02

the market and I think they're gonna

10:04

set a standard I think you've got

10:06

rumble all these guys and but it's

10:08

really infecting different corners of the internet

10:10

right so like rumble will have rumble

10:12

wallet which will have a lot of

10:14

people that could start getting access to

10:16

it that probably wouldn't have bothered to

10:18

get access to it. I think it

10:20

will create the channels, the awareness, and

10:22

if the company performs really well on

10:24

a Bitcoin standard, it's night and day.

10:26

And most of this stuff, the reason

10:28

why it's really good for companies to

10:30

do this shit, is because it's a

10:32

free trade. Like as in, you don't

10:34

know, you don't need the 18th factory

10:36

and Rwanda or whatever, like it's like,

10:38

no, no, just call your account, yeah,

10:40

yeah, yeah. swap currency? Thanks. Done. I'm

10:42

sorry, is that pound for pound not

10:44

the greatest like thing you could do?

10:46

So we're talking about companies not adopting

10:48

it yet, right? Like so, oh sale

10:50

has done it. Okay, this is obvious.

10:52

Great. Scarce asset, everyone wants it. We

10:54

can't break the technology, but sounds good.

10:56

Let's go. But no one did. And

10:58

I think there's a couple of reasons

11:00

why. It's like, like, one is the

11:02

way that they have to deal with

11:04

it all. is there's still frictions and

11:06

you know issues right so a lot

11:08

of these companies have very tight relationships

11:10

with their banks they probably have a

11:12

lot of products with their banks and

11:14

not like the bank's like oh don't

11:16

touch Bitcoin it's like it becomes a

11:18

risk for a company that doesn't know

11:20

a risk for a company that doesn't

11:22

know how to custody them correctly and

11:24

that becomes an issue and because there's

11:26

no formal like oh well the money

11:28

guys Goldman Sachs and Jamie Morgan or

11:30

whatever they're there they're they can custody

11:32

coins there's going to be a whole

11:34

lot more more adoption a massive massive

11:36

massive massive massive amount because It's a

11:38

no-brainer now and it's all delegated liability

11:40

let's say but it's not their problem

11:42

and it's not their fuck up if

11:44

they fuck like if something goes wrong

11:46

yeah because at the end of the

11:48

day now like if everyone's becoming a

11:50

Bitcoin company everyone's got to become a

11:52

security company because if this is the

11:54

golden goose like the way that I

11:56

see the future I mean Literally, yeah,

11:58

and that's the only thing that matters.

12:00

And that's the one thing you learn

12:02

is that that is the only thing

12:04

that matters. It doesn't matter. Oh, we've

12:06

got the this, we've got the that,

12:08

we've got the, like, you know, this

12:10

much money in the bank, that much

12:12

money, whatever, it doesn't matter. If you're

12:15

not secure, you're a ghost in history's

12:17

eyes, let's say. So it's like, like,

12:19

when I think about like, what's the

12:21

future look future look like in 30

12:23

years like in 30 years or something,

12:25

in 30 years or something, I think,

12:27

military installations or something, military installations around

12:29

military installations around all the mining installations

12:31

around all the mining installations around all

12:33

the mining operations around all the mining

12:35

operations around all the mining operations around

12:37

all the mining operations around all the

12:39

mining operations around all the mining operations

12:41

around all the like, like, capturing the

12:43

money to protect them like as in

12:45

they're going to be doing it like

12:47

let's say iron energy or whatever they're

12:49

going to be capturing this energy and

12:51

they're going to be protected because this

12:53

is going to be the most valuable

12:55

thing possible and I think that's going

12:57

to be a whole thing almost I

12:59

think it's pretty wild that we've seen

13:01

those bidaxes being a couple of blocks.

13:03

Have you got one? I do have

13:05

one. I love it. I think it's

13:07

really good. Put it. It's not been

13:09

mine. No, it hasn't mined anything yet.

13:11

But I mean, that's a whole interesting

13:13

conversation. Well, if the statistics, like what

13:15

are the statistics of that happening? And

13:17

you know, is it, you know, is

13:19

it, you know, one in a light

13:21

year or one in a zillion squillian?

13:23

It's better than lottery. It's, I mean,

13:25

it's pretty damn cool. Like no matter

13:27

what, I think it's just such a

13:29

like, like, like, thought it was cool.

13:31

But like you know one of the

13:33

Bitcoin is here is actually a cheat

13:35

code. I bought it a cheat code

13:37

when you guys were here for yeah

13:39

with my lightning wall and did the

13:41

whole thing it was mad. Love it.

13:43

Yeah it's six anyway. So one question

13:45

I have on these like zombie companies

13:47

adopting Bitcoin. Yeah. Is it a good

13:49

thing to basically prop up these companies

13:51

that can't do what they're doing anymore?

13:53

So game stock as an example like

13:55

it's kind of a failing business model.

13:57

Yeah. Everything's moving online. they're going to,

13:59

their share price can go through the

14:01

roof, I assume. It's going to mean

14:03

they can survive as a company, but

14:05

they're not really offering any products. And

14:07

they don't really have to offer any

14:09

products. They can just be a Bitcoin

14:11

company. No, and that's the thing now

14:13

because like when we invest in companies,

14:15

sure there's a bunch of people that

14:17

buy into whatever the product is and

14:19

the business is, but at the end

14:21

of the day it's a wealth preservation

14:23

strategy. right? And so we're all looking

14:25

for little pockets in the ground where

14:27

we can put it that's not going

14:30

to get fucked. And it's like, oh,

14:32

you're in a big concert? Oh, thank

14:34

God. Okay, yeah. Like, okay, it's safe

14:36

there. Do you know what I mean?

14:38

Like, it's not going to melt in

14:40

your office. Like, there's a lot of

14:42

hot offices where it's going to melt

14:44

straight away. And that is just going

14:46

to be a land grab for like

14:48

a liquidity capture for these companies. you

14:50

know how this will divert I suppose

14:52

just exposure to other let's say like

14:54

where how does this get how does

14:56

this affect things like the ETFs and

14:58

I think it's actually almost like if

15:00

every company you liked was on a

15:02

Bitcoin standard firstly you'd know what the

15:04

future is going to look like as

15:06

long as they're not spending less spending

15:08

more than they earn You're going to

15:10

basically know where they're going to be

15:12

in the future because you add up

15:14

their stack and be like, oh, oh,

15:16

fuck, I'm mad. And so you buy

15:18

into them. But I think there's going

15:20

to be a ton of those companies.

15:22

And I'm wondering how that dilutes things

15:24

like, you know, or how that breaks

15:26

up the concentration of something like Black

15:28

Rock ETFs and stuff like that, which

15:30

I don't think the concentration is so

15:32

much of a problem because I see.

15:34

Between now and 10 years ago, I

15:36

probably would have seen the value, the

15:38

true value, because so much performance has

15:40

slapped my portfolio in the face, like

15:42

along that ride, that I've had to

15:44

adjust what the me 10 years ago

15:46

thought about it or how I wanted

15:48

to, you know, take advantage of this

15:50

new coin. So I don't know. I

15:52

think, so that's quite an interesting conversation

15:54

is how that will decentralize the public

15:56

market concentration risk of Bitcoin. This episode

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Freedom Report.org. And I think the interesting

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there is, like you said, this curve

17:33

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17:35

like when companies start adding Bitcoin to

17:37

the balance sheet, it won't do anything

17:39

to share price. No one will give

17:41

a fuck. How many companies do you

17:43

think can do this? Like there's a

17:45

huge early mover advantage. Okay, so I'll

17:47

tell you the perfect type of companies

17:49

that should do it. Sorry. I just

17:51

interrupted you. I'm trying to get less

17:53

interrupty by the way. Okay. Okay. So

17:55

the people that can take the biggest

17:57

advantage of this is a company that

17:59

has, are the people that will sniff

18:01

this out first. I have a very

18:03

small penis. Very small, yeah, everyone's saying

18:05

it. But like I had, so a

18:07

very small margin, micro margin companies, right?

18:09

So like, let's get micro. No, dude,

18:11

born in Greece, where? Oh, micropenous. How

18:13

good. No, okay, so let's say payment

18:15

companies. You're trying to sell a dollar

18:17

for a dollar and one cent. So

18:19

when you buy a hundred bucks with

18:21

a US DC or whatever with a

18:23

credit card or Bitcoin, right, you buy

18:25

60,000 dollars with a Bitcoin. for basically

18:27

at a rate of a dollar, like

18:29

the closest to parody, but they've got

18:31

to make a margin somewhere. So they've

18:33

got no margin and they've got a

18:35

huge amount of risk because every time

18:37

someone reverses a payment, bang, that's like

18:39

because your margin is so small, that

18:41

person who just bought, let's say they

18:43

bought 60,000 and reversed it, you were

18:45

only going to make 500 or 300

18:47

bucks on that 60, and you've just

18:49

lost 60,000. So the trade shit. Like

18:51

it's really like... a very risky high-risk

18:53

underwriting of, you know, you're not going

18:55

to reverse your payment with me. So

18:58

the margins are tiny, so payment companies,

19:00

they're the gold standard. The dude with

19:02

90% margins isn't looking for a way

19:04

to preserve his wealth. He's rolling around

19:06

in money and he's not thinking, the

19:08

guy who's looking for a way to

19:10

preserve his wealth has a chance to

19:12

beat the guy that's rolling around in

19:14

money. because like you know diamonds are

19:16

made under pressure we built the atom

19:18

bomb in World War II because we

19:20

were desperate as a species like to

19:22

figure it out like in the same

19:24

way if you're desperate to figure it

19:26

out you'll find Bitcoin and you'll have

19:28

to take that chance it's like it's

19:30

literally like basically taking a handshake with

19:32

something you're not sure is going to

19:34

do well and just putting faith in

19:36

the belief of all the other people

19:38

that you can see and their conviction

19:40

and that's like quite literally the sales

19:42

story right where they were like shit

19:44

we're out of options and they were

19:46

like, let's go, and they've set the

19:48

tone for that. But I do think

19:50

that there's that, yeah, like a lot

19:52

of these zombie companies, micromargent companies, they're

19:54

going to be the ones to do

19:56

it. Every payment company should be doing

19:58

it. If you're a payment company, and

20:00

this has a 10-year, a four-year cagger

20:02

of 20, percent or whatever, you can't,

20:04

your margins are so small that you

20:06

must be doing this because this has

20:08

a chance if this, oh wow, it

20:10

went up 25% year over year for

20:12

four years. Dude, that's like 300 quarters

20:14

of revenue for you. Like you can't

20:16

not be doing this. You have no

20:18

chance not being doing, not to be

20:20

doing this. And it's interesting to see

20:22

a lot of the payment companies that

20:24

we got to work with earlier on

20:26

in, like in the journey of wire

20:28

at the time. You know a lot

20:30

of them have gone like we were

20:32

either working with them or starting with

20:34

them like they've gone public now And

20:36

it's so cool to see because at

20:38

the time like some of them had

20:40

like You know small companies that were

20:42

like companies of these well like we

20:44

got to work with fold a lot

20:46

We got to work with exodus a

20:48

lot and excesses went public like unbelievable

20:50

journeys like you've been just like it's

20:52

like being able to see oh I

20:54

used to I used to coach LeBron

20:56

James in high school or something like

20:58

that and it's not like a coach

21:00

but you just got to witness that

21:02

part of their journey and it's like

21:04

you know these companies are holding bitcoins

21:06

and they're because their intent has been

21:08

so pure for throughout their whole journey.

21:10

they've been holding it, you know, for,

21:13

you know, well beyond or accumulating, let's

21:15

say, so that now... It's mental, let's

21:17

go, boys! Yeah, shout out to fold.

21:19

But like they can beat a lot

21:21

of companies to the punch because they've

21:23

just made a bet on, this is

21:25

how we've just made a bet on,

21:27

this is how we want to store

21:29

our wealth. And people that don't even

21:31

know that company very well, like don't

21:33

even, like, and I think... Now it

21:35

becomes a conversation and people go, oh,

21:37

there's zombie companies. What's it to you?

21:39

Like, you don't own the company? Like,

21:41

who cares what they're doing? They're staying

21:43

alive. And that's the goal. Like, I

21:45

think that goal is longevity, especially if

21:47

it's your baby, like if you build

21:49

a company and you want to see

21:51

it thrive and do its thing, whatever

21:53

that is. But you keep the name

21:55

going. And I think these little, it's

21:57

really good to have lots of Bitcoin

21:59

standard companies to invest to invest in

22:01

as a. option as options around the

22:03

world because that will become a de-risker

22:05

for concentration for big things like black

22:07

rock because people will go well I'm

22:09

still getting Bitcoin exposure by going this

22:11

direction I don't need to go straight

22:13

in there and then that might be

22:15

cool a cool way of basically because

22:17

essentially when you're buying something you're basically

22:19

putting some bitcoins on their pile and

22:21

saying like it's a vote of confidence

22:23

like here you go like the most

22:25

precious thing on earth to me yeah

22:27

there you go I'm not buying more

22:29

Bitcoin like I'm giving it to you

22:31

or whatever like I think that handshake

22:33

like we were talking about before with

22:35

governments right like that handshake is like

22:37

eternal and it's very powerful when your

22:39

oxygen that you your economy breeze is

22:41

the same as mine. So we were

22:43

talking about this before the show you

22:45

should explain your your kind of take

22:47

on the nation-state thing. Oh yeah yeah

22:49

yeah oh well we're talking I was

22:51

a recording sure I was naked no

22:53

I just do. Okay so nation say

22:55

okay so. You're going to have nation

22:57

states they're going to adopt. They're going

22:59

to do it the cheapest way possible.

23:01

Keep the ones we've got. That's step

23:03

zero. We haven't had to outlay anything.

23:05

Then you're going to start out laying

23:07

them making purchases. Don't know how that's

23:09

going to go, like from wherever, whatever,

23:11

whether they print money or they find

23:13

some tax thing that's, you know, 0.5%

23:15

Bitcoin tax instead of GST. And that

23:17

goes to accumulating. But what I actually

23:19

think will probably happen is that You

23:21

know, there will be such an advantage

23:23

of having a really strong understanding of

23:26

your country's energy capacity that the tighter

23:28

starces in the world, like the biggest

23:30

tightest in the world are minors. Like

23:32

they're nickel and diming for anything. Oh,

23:34

you've got like half a watt more

23:36

of me. Like, you know, they're so

23:38

like, it's the most competitive game on

23:40

earth, basically. So it's like, okay, these

23:42

miners, I want them finding every single

23:44

nook and cranny of like unoptimised energy.

23:46

I'm in a race against these other

23:48

230 countries, I have many there on

23:50

this planet, to find this thing that's

23:52

really valuable. So I want them to

23:54

come in, find all the energy you

23:56

can, and report back. Great. Every time

23:58

you use it, we're paying you 1%

24:00

over spot price, you tell us the

24:02

market, we don't care, why would we

24:04

do that? Well, we're going to pay

24:06

you that, because one, you're in the

24:08

most competitive... market in the world. So

24:10

you, 1% margin to you is like

24:12

a billion percent to anyone else. Two,

24:14

you're going to optimize my citizens. I'm

24:16

the Prime Minister, or like, I'm not

24:18

the Prime Minister, but you know, like

24:20

if we were Prime Minister, you're going

24:22

to optimize all the energy efficiencies through

24:24

our country's future. That's pretty valuable. We

24:26

need it. And three, you're going to

24:28

secure our future financially. The RBA, we've

24:30

blown out our budget a couple of

24:32

times and we need to make sure

24:34

that we're on track that we're on

24:36

track to that we're on track to

24:38

pay that we're on track to pay

24:40

that we're on track to pay that

24:42

we're on track to pay that we're

24:44

on track to pay that. we only

24:46

need to accumulate this much to be

24:48

out of debt in four terms or

24:50

whatever. So now it becomes a pipeline

24:52

of coins because if every country needs,

24:54

they need their own pipelines, well are

24:56

they going to go buy on coin

24:58

base? No, dude, that doesn't exist forever

25:00

because that is going to have a

25:02

limited supply. And so the, as the

25:04

market gets more educated, more coins will

25:06

come off exchanges and they'll be hiding

25:08

in nodes around the world. And so

25:10

you're going to need these supply chains

25:12

to have more of a deterministic, like

25:14

operation. These countries can't be like, oh

25:16

yeah, have you logged into like coin

25:18

base and bought them today? That's not

25:20

really how it's going to go. It's

25:22

going to be like, no, we need

25:24

like hardware drills in the ground and

25:26

we need to protect them because they're

25:28

the guys that are going to get

25:30

us out of debt. And so I

25:32

think that is the thing. So you're

25:34

going to see miners coming in optimized

25:36

countries that's going to come. And so

25:38

you think they'll buy every Bitcoin mined

25:41

at 1% over spot price? Yes. And

25:43

why would they do that? Well, back

25:45

in 2013 to 2012 to 2015, I

25:47

think it was, BTC China was one

25:49

of the largest miners in the industry.

25:51

And that was, that was, that was

25:53

one of the largest miners in the

25:55

industry. And that was sort of, one

25:57

of the biggest exchanges, and that was

25:59

one of the biggest exchanges, and one

26:01

of the other products they had was

26:03

buying fresh coins. Now, if you're a

26:05

nation state, you're going to pay a

26:07

premium 1% 1% over spot price to

26:09

buy the scastest thing on earth while

26:11

optimizing the future of your country's energy

26:13

grid and your you're getting fresh coins

26:15

straight from the soul like the soul

26:17

of Bitcoin with no previous tracking on

26:19

it now I don't like I'm not

26:21

thinking about that stuff is like we're

26:23

not retail but at that scale they

26:25

would be for sure now to say

26:27

oh well there's no market for that

26:29

will BTC China did it and the

26:31

premium that they charged was 20% over

26:33

spot I think was what it was

26:35

Please forgive me if I'm wrong, by

26:37

the way. It's like, you know, this

26:39

is just a fever dream. You completely

26:41

imagine that. It's like, oh, okay, cool.

26:43

Yeah. But no, that was at the

26:45

BTC China, BTC China, and they used

26:47

to start 20% over spot because to

26:49

some people, if you're a big entity,

26:51

you don't want, you don't want to

26:53

know. Like, I'm surprised that that that's

26:55

not more of a thing. And that's

26:57

where I thought actually I had this

26:59

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

27:01

like I was imagining all the bidax

27:03

miners, like, like, like, like, like, like,

27:05

like, all the bidax miners, like, all

27:07

the bidax miners, like, all the bidax

27:09

miners, like, all the bidax miners, like,

27:11

like, like, all the bidax miners, like,

27:13

like, like, all the bidax miners, all

27:15

the bidax miners, all the bidax miners,

27:17

like, like, I imagine all the coins

27:19

won on bidaxes to make it a

27:21

more fruitful endeavor, they would be all

27:23

put because they're raw, like straight from

27:25

the source, right? Some people would pay

27:27

20% over spot for that. So you

27:29

pull all the bidax coins together, someone

27:31

buys a chunk for 20,000 bucks when

27:33

it's $10,000 worth, but all the bidax

27:35

miners just got twice the amount or

27:37

something like that. I don't know. There's

27:39

two big concerns I have with that.

27:41

One is like the idea of... sort

27:43

of white and black market coins. Yeah,

27:45

yeah. I really don't like the idea

27:47

of that. No. And then secondly, is

27:49

this kind of like just de facto

27:51

Bitcoin, their nationalization of Bitcoin mining? I

27:54

don't think so. I think it's almost

27:56

like a defense mechanism, like a security

27:58

thing, almost like it's not like a

28:00

hay web, it's more like we're recruiting

28:02

all the miners to come and help

28:04

us. But you're in this, let me

28:06

get this right. So you're saying you

28:08

think they'll print money. to buy Bitcoin

28:10

at one percent over spot and they'll

28:12

buy all the Bitcoin from any minor

28:14

in their country. I think that guaranteed

28:16

contracts for the next umpteen years basically

28:18

saying every coin you can mine on

28:20

the network you have a buyer of

28:22

first resort. The proof that this has

28:24

happened before was Iran, the central bank

28:26

of Iran, they said no we're not

28:28

having... having any Bitcoin exchanges. But anyone

28:30

that wants to mine here, there's heaps

28:32

of energy, we are the buyer of

28:34

first resort and we will buy them

28:36

all from you every day of the

28:38

week. And they had like three and

28:40

a half percent of the hash rate

28:42

at one point. Wow. Do you know

28:44

how many coins they have? I don't

28:46

know actually, not sure. Smart trade though,

28:48

like brilliant. That's basically DCAing at nation

28:50

state level, three and a half percent.

28:52

every day. I mean it's like what

28:54

Bhutan have done kind of. Oh yeah

28:56

yeah yeah of course and these guys

28:58

are taking a chance and that's another

29:00

thing right as these coins like if

29:02

this is if there is hysteria right

29:04

nation states need to fit into this

29:06

pie imagine having a party right you're

29:08

having a party you're all one pizza

29:10

and you know that nation states are

29:12

coming to the party then there's the

29:14

nazda or two hundred companies five hundred

29:16

call it four thousand publicly traded but

29:18

say a ten percent 40 to 400

29:20

companies, the amount of need that they

29:22

have is insane. There's nowhere, there's a

29:24

tidal way of trying to fit through

29:26

a pencil hole, like a pen hole

29:28

or whatever, like a pin hole, or

29:30

whatever, like a pin, it's insane. But

29:32

that means that there's going to be

29:34

not many coins around. So if I'm

29:36

a small country and I've got debt

29:38

and stuff like that, what I would

29:40

do is be securing coins today, buying

29:42

them early, sort of like trying to

29:44

get ahead of everyone while six months,

29:46

12 months. this is our chance just

29:48

like the companies the adoption strategy is

29:50

the same at every level and that's

29:52

one thing I can really promise whether

29:54

it's retail level trying to get rich

29:56

instead of faster than you know your

29:58

peers or whatever or it's corporate trying

30:00

to be more of a you know

30:02

wealth storing company than everyone else or

30:04

it's nation state we've secured our energy

30:06

we've secured our financial future but it

30:09

all operates the same way like ever

30:11

all got to kind of there's a

30:13

pain point that gets met silver gate

30:15

bank like obviously there's you know poor

30:17

one out for silver gate at the

30:19

moment, but like they took a chance

30:21

on Bitcoin really early on to build

30:23

and commit to infrastructure where to give

30:25

bank accounts because you couldn't get bank

30:27

accounts. So like they took a chance

30:29

and they were very. lucky for that.

30:31

Michael Saylor took a chance. He beat

30:33

everyone else to the punch. He's going

30:35

to have a lot more shine on

30:37

it. And so small countries are going

30:39

to buy Bitcoin early. I think, I

30:41

know this sounds ridiculous, but I actually

30:43

think they'll time lock these coins to,

30:45

let's say, two or three terms in

30:47

the future to say, well, we will

30:49

revisit like our purchase power or whatever,

30:51

but this is a purchase today to

30:53

pay off our debt of X, you

30:55

know, in three terms time, so 12,

30:57

12, 16 years. Now that's not happening

30:59

now obviously but there's going to become

31:01

a time where I think something things

31:03

like that happen. You're going to see

31:05

all these different acquisition strategies and these

31:07

different levers people are trying to pull

31:09

because if I've got a million dollars

31:11

or let's say I've got a billion

31:13

dollars or let's say I've got a

31:15

billion dollars to sort I've got a

31:17

billion dollars to sort it I've got

31:19

a trillion everyone's got ten trillion like

31:21

I need to be really smart with

31:23

how I spend my capital. if I've

31:25

got a competitor that's got 10X the

31:27

funding or something like that. And so

31:29

I think you're going to see that

31:31

same level of strategic kind of deployment,

31:33

different strategies, weird ones, cool ones, ones

31:35

that bomb, ones that don't. But yeah,

31:37

I think it's going to be pretty

31:39

integrated with mining because it's just too

31:41

strong, like it's too strong and it

31:43

just adds too much value. I've got

31:45

a weird position on this because I

31:47

think at least some of what you're

31:49

talking about is kind of inevitable. Bitcoin's

31:51

money for enemies, you can't stop anyone

31:53

from using it. But at the same

31:55

time, this isn't why I got into

31:57

Bitcoin. No. And I don't know where

31:59

I kind of fall on that. Right.

32:01

I don't know either, but I just

32:03

think that's the... This isn't sort of

32:05

saying how I want Bitcoin to roll

32:07

out, but it's just saying, like, looking

32:09

at all the pieces in the puzzle,

32:11

that sort of feels like the trajectory.

32:13

like or everyone that moves into a

32:15

Bitcoin standard, it's almost like caterpillar to

32:17

butterfly. Like they'll go in. as a

32:19

caterpillar and they'll go through this sort

32:21

of turbulence of like, what the fuck

32:24

is this thing, oh my god, I'm

32:26

up, oh my god, I'm down, oh

32:28

my god, I hate my life, oh

32:30

my god, a lot of Bitcoin. And

32:32

then they come out as a butterfly

32:34

and that is gonna produce a whole

32:36

lot of new stuff, but I think,

32:38

yeah, I don't even think we know

32:40

what the world looks like yet. And

32:42

so I'm just not too hung up

32:44

on it. Stop producing blocks. Yeah, that's

32:46

the only thing that's one thing I'm

32:48

pretty confident in well What's a quantum

32:50

conversation? Well So I recently did a

32:52

show on the quantum stuff is obviously

32:54

become like a way bigger topic in

32:56

Bitcoin Yeah, and whether it's a real

32:58

threat or not Yeah, I'm still kind

33:00

of on the fence. Sure, I think

33:02

at some point we're gonna get quantum

33:04

computing. Yep. I think at some point

33:06

it may be strong enough to break

33:08

Bitcoin's encryption Yeah addresses. So there's like

33:10

a pathway. Yeah. But when I had

33:12

this conversation, I thought of you because

33:14

when we were here in October, you

33:16

did a show with Pete. Yeah. And

33:18

you were talking about these mass problems

33:20

that you've been working. Like looking at,

33:22

like just, I'm looking at them as

33:24

like a. Like the sky is falling

33:26

like you know like kind of like

33:28

like is anyone fixing this like is

33:30

that a problem because it feels like

33:32

this concentration risk there. Yeah and in

33:34

that though you said you think people

33:36

will break encryption. It wasn't even about

33:38

constant computing you think people will I

33:40

think so I think we'll take a

33:42

new perspective on numbers and like right

33:44

now we think of numbers as these

33:46

very arbitrary sort of whatever's right but

33:48

if you think about what numbers are

33:50

like if I got teleported anywhere else

33:52

in the universe the odds are that

33:54

numbers is something that they do have

33:56

yeah and the numbers might look different

33:58

but what numbers is is essentially counting

34:00

or more specifically the partition of identities

34:02

and so would an alien species have

34:04

that yes would they have strong nuclear

34:06

force weak nuclear force no they wouldn't

34:08

know what I'm talking about so the

34:10

idea is like When you are looking

34:12

at numbers, that's the universal language. So

34:14

if there's a world of many, if

34:16

we're in a universe of many universes,

34:18

the other cat... in the universe, the

34:20

biggest, the strongest, the smallest, the fastest,

34:22

whatever, they're all looking at the same

34:24

canvas. Just because they're not sitting next

34:26

to you doesn't mean you can't, like,

34:28

feel that, like, connection. And it's because

34:30

they're transcendental. So they're immutable. I can't

34:32

break. I can't break. I can't break

34:34

the number seven. I can't change the

34:37

color blue. And that's like, Bitcoin's kind

34:39

of entering that echelon of strength. But

34:41

now it's like this, you know that

34:43

sort of stuff. It'll I don't I

34:45

just don't think it's elegant enough and

34:47

like the universe is not a brute

34:49

force system. It's a very elegant organized

34:51

What's the term like everyone working together

34:53

sort of thing like everything's connected and

34:55

I think everything has an elegant solution

34:57

and it doesn't look like quantum quantum

34:59

looks like I've tied five thousand well

35:01

sorry the way that we approach factoring

35:03

is sort of like tying five thousand

35:05

horses to the front of a cart

35:07

to try and break the world record.

35:09

And I'm what my belief is, is

35:11

that there's many people around the world

35:13

that haven't started building yet, but they're

35:15

going to be building jet engines. And

35:17

those are, like quantum computing right now,

35:19

that says, it can factor this and

35:21

do that in whatever amount of time.

35:23

Sure, it might be able to, but

35:25

that's still under the assumption that you're

35:27

using the best methods to factor. And

35:29

so like that's the time scale that

35:31

you think. But this hasn't been a

35:33

problem for 8 billion people. Once it

35:35

becomes a problem for 8 billion people

35:37

or a focus, once we put our

35:39

attention to it, all these minds will

35:41

come out of the woodworks that are

35:43

like, oh yeah, no, no, do it

35:45

that way. Just like you get, like

35:47

we've got these unsolved problems in maths

35:49

because we sort of train and condition

35:51

ourselves through these education systems to think

35:53

the same way. and you don't really

35:55

solve these problems or find these breakthroughs,

35:57

like call them breakthroughs, you know, where

35:59

it just goes exponentially way better, you

36:01

know, with the same line of thinking.

36:03

And so I think as the problem

36:05

becomes more... more highlighted, I think you're

36:07

going to see way more shots on

36:09

goal. And way more shots on goal

36:11

is probably going to start leaking out

36:13

solutions to what could accumulate to becoming

36:15

a very elegant explanation for why we

36:17

can't find two prime numbers. So not

36:19

everyone lists those shows. So let's go

36:21

through these, how many unsolved war math

36:23

problems? Seven Millennium Prize problems and one's

36:25

been solved. And one's been solved. And

36:27

you get a million bucks for every

36:29

solution. Well, like, they called Millennium Prize

36:31

because no one's had a, like, they

36:33

haven't been solved for Millennium basically. Yeah,

36:35

yeah. And so, okay. And so someone

36:37

sold one. Someone sold one Russian dude

36:39

and you said, nah, I don't want

36:41

your million bucks. Mad. Buller. How good

36:43

is that? Yeah. But like, the thing

36:45

is is that what we need to

36:47

realize is that everything is about dependencies,

36:49

right? So everything comes down to dependencies.

36:52

If I'm building a building in Tokyo,

36:54

it doesn't matter if I'm the best

36:56

architect in the world. If I haven't

36:58

spoken to the geologist or factored that

37:00

in, because I'm building on the ground,

37:02

when the ground changes, my building changes.

37:04

So when we think about what information

37:06

sits on top of it sits on

37:08

top of cryptography. And cryptography sits on

37:10

top of prime numbers. And so in

37:12

these mass problems, these Millennium Prize problems,

37:14

the common theme is about elliptic curves

37:16

and prime numbers and things like that.

37:18

Basically prime numbers would function as like

37:20

the master key for everything. But what's

37:22

the problem with the prime numbers that

37:24

we know? Like is this finding more

37:26

prime? Basically that we can't find them.

37:28

Because there's no pattern. There's no pattern

37:30

because see the way that we can

37:32

identify like if you think of numbers

37:34

like the internet, like if you think

37:36

of numbers like the internet, like imagine

37:38

the internet, you don't think of a

37:40

straight line, you think of like a

37:42

web of things connected and shit, right?

37:44

Think of numbers like that where the

37:46

devices are the devices. the devices are

37:48

like back links how many web how

37:50

many pages go back to your page

37:52

okay and that makes you easier to

37:54

find right if I've got a thousand

37:56

links thousand websites linking to my website,

37:58

odds are it'll be easier to find

38:00

than if I had one, in an

38:02

ocean of opportunities, right? And so that's

38:04

what prime numbers are. They're the ones

38:06

with one back link, but there's 10

38:08

to the 500 universes, like if every

38:10

spec of nothing was a universe and

38:12

then the 10 to the 500 times

38:14

the size of our universe, and you're

38:16

trying to basically shoot, like imagine an

38:18

archer on one side of the year

38:20

with an arrow made of light, and

38:22

he's trying to shoot it so that.

38:24

it hits one particle here like one

38:26

quantum particle the smallest possible target and

38:28

it connects on the other side of

38:30

the universe with the other smallest possible

38:32

target this is us trying to find

38:34

prime numbers yes okay but so when

38:36

we spoke yeah I don't know a

38:38

year a year I don't know a

38:40

year I don't know a year ago

38:42

two years yeah I don't know a

38:44

year ago two years you thought you

38:46

were going to solve them I thought

38:48

you were definitely going to be sold

38:50

you were working on solving yes so

38:52

I'm trying to figure not knowing how

38:54

to solve this mass puzzle. It's almost

38:56

like Enigma, like at the time of

38:58

World War II, there was this incredible

39:00

mass puzzle that no one could solve.

39:02

And it's sort of like now, well

39:04

that's the same thing. It's like, are

39:07

we positive knowing and solve them? Or

39:09

am I just like being a bit

39:11

paranoid? Or like, you know, why is

39:13

no one talking about this? And like

39:15

this was sort of two or three

39:17

years ago. Now this year just came

39:19

out on Apple TV, a show called

39:21

Prime prime target, a show called Prime

39:23

Target. who is studying prime numbers and

39:25

he's about to crack the prime number

39:27

theorem essentially which now the CIA or

39:29

whatever is go the army or military

39:31

is trying to use him or help

39:33

him or whatever but basically cracks open

39:35

this door to Pandora's box where it's

39:37

like he's like oh mad prime numbers

39:39

and they're like sort of like you

39:41

know it's kind of like a baby

39:43

walking across the ground and it's like

39:45

He's there's a knife over there like

39:47

you make sure he's not gonna grab

39:49

it is he does he know not

39:51

to grab it like I've got a

39:53

baby they grab the knife exactly and

39:55

so I think it's like there's eight

39:57

billion of us and we're all dependent

39:59

on this Like, the reason why we

40:01

can't access each other's stuff is because

40:03

of prime numbers. And it's like, well,

40:05

I really hope that that's the case.

40:07

Because, and so, like, for me, it's

40:09

sort of like, I know that I

40:11

learned so much from my team, like,

40:13

I got so lucky working at wire,

40:15

have these brilliant engineers, brilliant, brilliant, CTO,

40:17

and they just pounded security into my

40:19

head. Like, they were just like, no,

40:21

not, not, doesn't matter, doesn't matter, no,

40:23

no, no, no, no, you feature, you

40:25

feature, you feature, it doesn't matter, it,

40:27

it doesn't matter, it, it, it, it,

40:29

it, it, it, it, it, it, it,

40:31

it, it, it, it, it, it, it,

40:33

it, it, it, it, it, it, it,

40:35

it, it, it, it, it, it, it,

40:37

it, it, it, it, it, it, it,

40:39

it Cryptography done. Perfect. No one can

40:41

break that. How many years it takes

40:43

to break? 100 billion? Why? And then

40:45

you go why? And you're like, oh,

40:47

and that becomes like so, you know,

40:49

when you're running a exchange, you've got

40:51

to understand every threat or every potential

40:53

vulnerability and how that can do you,

40:55

you plan for the worst, hope for

40:57

the best. Yeah. So it's like, well,

40:59

what is the Dunes, Dunes, Dunes, Dunes

41:01

Day, I would say is basically someone

41:03

fact factoring prime numbers. That means no

41:05

encryption, can't send an email, can't send

41:07

to this, and that's what this shows

41:09

about this prime target show. I didn't

41:11

watch all the show, but like if

41:13

you want to just get the grock

41:15

of actually what prime numbers in the

41:17

relationship to, you know, our modern day,

41:20

watch the trail and it gives you

41:22

the, you know, one minute explanation. And

41:24

so to break all of this down.

41:26

Yeah. Do we need all of these

41:28

problems to be solved to break everything?

41:30

Well, I think they're all, they're like

41:32

the final boss in a video game.

41:34

Think of that. Mass is a video

41:36

game and we are at the final

41:38

boss and these are the last six

41:40

bosses. And behind every single one of

41:42

them is, I think of them like

41:44

Mega Man bosses in the game Mega

41:46

Man where you get a superpower from

41:48

the guy you kill. So it's like

41:50

you unlock new knowledge when you solve

41:52

one of these. So it's gonna be

41:54

like falling. It shows that there's like

41:56

a chink in the armor. Like it.

41:58

What did that one unlock? In like

42:00

in like real life was there anything

42:02

that I think it was the morphing

42:04

of two spheres across some like manifold.

42:06

or something. So it was basically like

42:08

when you like you don't see water

42:10

droplets like pull apart and there's like

42:12

that that thing it was basically the

42:14

relationship of that and explaining it perfectly

42:16

okay I think something to something in

42:18

that world change in in our everyday

42:20

life from that being sold well not

42:22

that we know of but you don't

42:24

there's a lot of people that are

42:26

looking at different things like that are

42:28

just as passionate about these certain things

42:30

that might be staring at this problem

42:32

being like, oh my God, imagine if

42:34

that's solved. Like, you know, a lot

42:36

of people are looking at the Riemann

42:38

hypothesis and that's like, what's that? That's

42:40

like, basically this, there's some, it's basically

42:42

adding up things to find prime numbers

42:44

or a hypothesis that it should reveal

42:46

prime numbers basically. So this critical strip

42:48

where all these zeros lie. that basically

42:50

gives a almost like a compass to

42:52

prime numbers or that's the belief and

42:54

we have the assumption we haven't solved

42:56

it yet we've literally been raw dogging

42:58

maths for like a hundred years with

43:00

the presumption that yeah no no no

43:02

it's a yeah like it will point

43:04

to prime numbers and it basically will

43:06

like it most likely will so I

43:08

want to understand like the what this

43:10

actually means so yeah if we solve

43:12

all these obviously you're saying like encryption

43:14

goes which yeah massive like It's a

43:16

massive change. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But

43:18

does it all, is this like keys

43:20

to the universe? Yes. Yeah, that's what's

43:22

changing. This is where like as a

43:24

species, it's not like, oh fuck you,

43:26

I don't like the color of your

43:28

teacher. It's like, wait, I can sharpen

43:30

up. We're like the leaders of the

43:32

universe now. We control the quanta, like,

43:35

which is the field. So this, like,

43:37

we'll change physics, space travel, space travel,

43:39

right. sort of thought like of going

43:41

like up like how would you travel

43:43

you know trans dimensionally or something like

43:45

that and like obviously we know that

43:47

if we're trying to go across the

43:49

universe it's probably not smart to send

43:51

big stuff because big stuff can't go

43:53

fast it's really heavy and hard to

43:55

get off the ground so I think

43:57

space travel will end up something more

43:59

like we can go faster if

44:01

we're light basically so we'll figure out how

44:03

to encode things into light such that we

44:05

can send that light particle really fast really

44:08

far but encoded in that light particle might

44:10

be a whole lot more of you know

44:12

stuff so basically what kind of stuff shrinking

44:14

ourselves into light or compressing ourselves into electrons

44:17

what the fuck yeah well but it's a

44:19

smarter way to go because here's the thing

44:21

like You say he's a smart way to

44:23

go, but like we can't just say that.

44:26

No, but no, but it's in like, it's

44:28

much, so if you approach the speed of

44:30

light, the mass is going to get bigger

44:32

and bigger and bigger and bigger. So the

44:35

idea is like, starting as a human is

44:37

probably a dumb option, because it's like, well,

44:39

a cockroach is small, a cockroach, and then

44:41

you keep going smaller and smaller and smaller

44:44

and eventually you get down to like, you

44:46

know, a light, like, like, like literally, like,

44:48

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

44:50

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

44:53

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

44:55

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

44:57

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

44:59

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

45:02

like, like, like How do we encode something

45:04

into light so that we can send it

45:06

somewhere fast? That's what Bitcoin's almost like by

45:08

the way, because like these coins, right? For

45:11

example, I time lock these coins into the

45:13

future. They're a hundred years away, but there's

45:15

a tremendous amount of energy encoded into those

45:17

light photons, like the particles that have gone

45:20

into the cable and whatever. And so that

45:22

is encoded a huge moment. Just in that

45:24

light particle arriving to that destination now when

45:26

we think about remember the arrow trying to

45:29

shoot the arrow across the universe We have

45:31

a map of where we're going to be

45:33

in the universe as an earth like so

45:35

when we time lock something on Bitcoin You're

45:38

actually sending it very far across the universe

45:40

because the earth's moving at 60,000 K's an

45:42

hour whatever the fuck is doing and every

45:44

time you time lock something for one day

45:47

The earth has traveled a distance in that

45:49

day so what I think will start conceptualizing

45:51

stuff as we break through into more new

45:53

physics will be time is more like a

45:56

distance away because right now tomorrow is that

45:58

distance away however far the earth goes and

46:00

so it's like like, oh, spooky action at

46:02

large distances, that's quantum entanglement.

46:05

Okay, well, that, what is a time

46:07

lock for Bitcoin then? Like, if that's

46:09

that, then that becomes a real big

46:12

quantum entanglement because the Earth, what I'm

46:14

doing, if you time lock, bit coins

46:16

here, and the Earth's moved, like, really,

46:19

really, really, really, far, I think it's

46:21

like a hundred billion trillion

46:23

kilometers or something, and then

46:25

something magical happens then, or

46:27

big, or whatever, like, like, You're

46:30

not looking at why they're entangled. Do

46:32

you like, yes they're entangled, but like

46:34

how it's like, oh, that connects to

46:36

that and you can sort of draw

46:39

the cause and effect over a very

46:41

large distance. And so, I don't know,

46:43

I think Bitcoin is going to be

46:45

that. It's going to be like transferring

46:47

energy to the future and stuff. This

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47:58

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48:02

and so many more. We then have

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a football day where we'll hopefully see

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Rail Bedford win the league again. Last

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to be better but tickets will sell

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out for this so if you want

48:15

to come head over to Cheekode.co.at UK

48:17

and grab a ticket. Do you follow

48:19

any of the aliens here? Okay. Sort

48:21

of. Like I've looked at the pyramid

48:23

stuff. Sorry, I was going to ask

48:25

you about the pyramid stuff, but the

48:27

alien stuff, I think, look, there's probably

48:29

some new tech, but whatever it is,

48:31

if it doesn't involve prime numbers and

48:33

like basically geometry, it's all whatever. Like

48:35

it's all sort of. But you're assuming

48:37

that's us making this thing. It's always,

48:39

it hits us. Of course, like it's

48:41

not aliens from another planet. Or is

48:44

it huge humans? No. Well, that's what

48:46

I said. That's what, if we do

48:48

have alien visitors, it's us from the

48:50

future. Oh, they look little and gray.

48:52

Cool, you used to look like a

48:54

monkey. Like, easy answer, like next, you

48:56

know. So I would say that yes,

48:58

they would be us from the future.

49:00

But I think, we couldn't have done

49:02

that, that's alien. Just tell them it

49:04

was alien. They're fucking idiots. Yeah, and

49:06

it's almost like, yeah, I sell some

49:08

t-shirts to prop up the economy. Great.

49:10

Like, maybe. I don't know. I don't

49:13

try and devolve, like, dig into it

49:15

too much. I like it just as

49:17

like, I love that shit, like aliens,

49:19

pyramids, all that shit. Like, man, like,

49:21

what's possible? So it's exciting, but I

49:23

think a lot of the stuff they're

49:25

built is, like, like, incredible. I think

49:27

they're better than we think they're better

49:29

than we think, like, like, like, like,

49:31

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

49:33

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

49:35

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

49:37

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

49:39

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

49:41

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

49:44

No, you need to. Okay, chain. You

49:46

would have an amazing conversation. Maybe I'm

49:48

trying to, we should do a show

49:50

together. Yeah, awesome. Just all on aliens.

49:52

Yeah, yeah. And you can call it

49:54

future humans. Yes. But so, right, let's

49:56

get back to these mass problems. Yeah.

49:58

If they're all solved, it even seems

50:00

silly to talk about encryption that because

50:02

there's bigger fish to fryer that. It

50:04

means you know how every single particle

50:06

interacts with every single other particle basically.

50:08

Because you know the fundamental law of

50:10

the universe. So no matter what the

50:13

scenario, because this is the root layer

50:15

of the universe, like prime, nothing small,

50:17

nothing less more divisible, whatever, it's the

50:19

root layer. It's like the heartbeat of

50:21

the universe. And you go, oh, they

50:23

behave like that. And the big guy,

50:25

like, let's say black holes do that.

50:27

And the sun does that and we

50:29

do this and there's a consistent ratio

50:31

that everyone is operating on. We're going

50:33

to start thinking, oh, we're part of

50:35

a big assist. Okay, yes, okay, makes

50:37

sense. And most of our civilization will

50:39

look a lot more like we used

50:41

to in ancient times, which is sun

50:44

and like this relationship with what we

50:46

call like the universe, let's say the

50:48

stars and stuff like that. Yeah, I

50:50

think so. We're too smart not to

50:52

now. Like, I mean, let's say everyone,

50:54

okay, now why was it, why would

50:56

this matter at all? Well, what's Bitcoin

50:58

done to your level of consumerism? Like,

51:00

dropped it drastic. Exactly. It's this, the

51:02

antidote, it's the vaccine, whatever you want

51:04

to call it, it's a vaccine to

51:06

consumerism basically. And everyone's Bitcoin wallet looks

51:08

a lot different. the behavior to, I

51:10

mean, look, if you gave everyone a

51:13

Bitcoin wallet and showed us their Bitcoin

51:15

wallet versus their Westpac account or their

51:17

JP Morgan account or whatever, you would

51:19

see night and day spending habit differences.

51:21

100%. So that's the trend, right? And

51:23

the trend's our friend. So we know

51:25

it's going to head that direction. The

51:27

masses are moving that way. So what

51:29

happens then, companies become more of like

51:31

less about. buying a hundred things from

51:33

them that don't work forever and there

51:35

there's a new iPhone next season no

51:37

I bought an iPhone I've got it

51:39

I've got a car I've got it

51:41

desk TV whatever and so consumerism goes

51:44

really far down and people become more

51:46

in tune with purpose with well hold

51:48

on what can I do what can

51:50

I do with Bitcoin that's that What

51:52

does Bitcoin unlock for me that allows

51:54

me time to do something I'm more

51:56

passionate about? And I think that's what

51:58

happens is you lose this paranoia of

52:00

your time decaying and you start breathing

52:02

a little easier, feeling a bit more

52:04

relaxed, you know, like, and now it's

52:06

like you can actually start clearly thinking

52:08

about what's important to me, what do

52:10

I like, what do I don't like,

52:13

and all these kind of things. So

52:15

I definitely think consumerism's biggest nemesis right

52:17

now and capitalism for that reason. You

52:19

know, again, the same motivations. What happens

52:21

when a company doesn't need to make

52:23

products? What happens when an individual doesn't

52:25

need to work? Do they thrive and

52:27

find some really meaningful way to practice?

52:29

That's your purpose. Yeah. Like how mad

52:31

is that? Dude, imagine how fucking cool

52:33

earth would be! If every person is

52:35

the expert, you know, they've got like

52:37

the Lin Alden or the you, like

52:39

podcasting, all that shit, they're like, they're

52:41

like, I know everything about this, if

52:44

you come to me, I'll give you

52:46

all the answers because I stay up.

52:48

Yeah, no, no. If she's like, you

52:50

know, an economics question or something, or

52:52

whatever. Sailor, rocket ship question or eelmas,

52:54

whatever. They're the gurus, like the experts,

52:56

that's the web page you go to,

52:58

you go to, to, to understand it,

53:00

to understand it, to, to understand it,

53:02

to understand it, to understand it, to

53:04

understand it, to understand, or, or, or,

53:06

or, or, or, or, or, or, or,

53:08

or, or, or, or, or, or, or

53:10

like, or like, or like, or like,

53:13

or like, like, like, like, like, like,

53:15

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

53:17

Like everyone had their purpose fulfilled or

53:19

they were pursuing it. You're like, holy

53:21

shit, as a species, running on the

53:23

same currency, marching to the same beat.

53:25

Like we don't think about that, but

53:27

the earth has agreed on something 8,80,000

53:29

times or whatever, the block height. I

53:31

don't know anything else that we've ever

53:33

agreed on other than the time, and

53:35

that's based on the sun. So it's

53:37

like the sun is the heaviest natural

53:39

object we've got. The Bitcoin blockchain is

53:41

the heaviest artificial object we've made. and

53:44

those two coordinate the times between the

53:46

digital system and the physical system. We

53:48

don't even agree on the time. I

53:50

live like a seven-hour drive north of

53:52

here, a different time. But you know

53:54

what I mean? We have a transitive

53:56

relationship with it. But yeah, it's pretty

53:58

wild when you think about it. Like

54:00

I think this is a super exciting

54:02

time where we're going to get to

54:04

crack open all these interesting ideas. Like

54:06

a people are going to come, like

54:08

the creativity is going to be mental.

54:10

And like, if you thought you needed

54:13

a really big weapon in World War

54:15

II or whatever, right? They need to

54:17

figure out how to build a really

54:19

big weapon. The same thing happened when

54:21

we realized we had to figure out

54:23

how to compress information. So now we

54:25

got everything on a phone, like, you

54:27

know, it's tiny, but we're going to

54:29

have the same thing happened for creativity.

54:31

Originality, having original idea is what's going

54:33

to be like SEO ranking for LLLMs.

54:35

And LLLMs are going to be a

54:37

huge production assistant for people trying to

54:39

think a shit that we haven't thought

54:41

of yet. What two things should I

54:44

mix together? And the LLLM will be

54:46

like this assistant. And sort of what

54:48

I'm saying is that this will like

54:50

rocket ship purpose into the conversation. As

54:52

the moment people start getting a bit

54:54

of time, bang. They're going to start

54:56

working on something that really interest them.

54:58

because our dopamine is getting cooked as

55:00

well. So our bar for entertainment or

55:02

passion or purpose is really like, you

55:04

know, my bar for, you know, what

55:06

makes you happy now is not like,

55:08

you know, a hot chocolate in the

55:10

morning because I'm not freezing to death.

55:13

It's like, oh, did I get here

55:15

on time or something like that? And

55:17

so as, because our dopamine systems are

55:19

so fried, the bar is so high,

55:21

it's going to make it very singular.

55:23

because I don't have 600 people breathing

55:25

down my neck and I get the

55:27

bus at 7 in the morning to

55:29

go to there to see the boss

55:31

that fucking hates me and then his

55:33

spreadsheets do it 10 and blah blah

55:35

blah blah blah get home my kid

55:37

hates me because I haven't seen him

55:39

all day and don't know great there's

55:42

another day gone you didn't think about

55:44

your purpose and it's not like oh

55:46

fuck you think about it but it's

55:48

like no people can't think of course

55:50

and that's why people like uh jeez

55:52

let me it's like Bro, everyone's underwater.

55:54

Like, the, like, we're cooking ourselves from

55:56

the, it's literally the boiling frog thing,

55:58

like, we're cooking ourselves from the inside.

56:00

The way that I think about inflation

56:02

is, like, it's like being in a...

56:04

sauna, but the temperature gauge is outside,

56:06

like the rocks are outside for some

56:08

reason, and the door's locked, and someone

56:10

else is putting, I'm like, wait, getting

56:13

really hot in here, dude, like, hello?

56:15

Like, is anyone out there? Have you

56:17

closed? Like, it's like, did anyone think

56:19

of me? Like, you know, but me

56:21

being everyone, everybody, like, it's like, guys.

56:23

look if you want the boat or

56:25

something just fucking ass next time don't

56:27

print the money like your cooking is

56:29

is better off asking someone will donate

56:31

it to you just stop fucking printing

56:33

you idiot like so it's kind of

56:35

like I think that's pretty interesting so

56:37

in the quantum world yeah they're putting

56:39

like different time frames on this right

56:42

so like five ten fifteen twenty years

56:44

whatever it is yeah if they can

56:46

actually achieve that who knows yeah what

56:48

time frame would you put on a

56:50

solving these mass problems I think like

56:52

LLLM is going to solve this. I

56:54

think with a person. So a person,

56:56

one man in his tools basically, asking

56:58

the right questions back and forth. Like

57:00

if you think about what, let's say,

57:02

Pythagoras was back in the day or

57:04

Tesla or Euler or whoever, they were

57:06

their thoughts and the latency between knowing

57:08

the answer, hi, I have a thought,

57:10

it might be this, whatever the equation,

57:13

it might be that, bing, right, check.

57:15

Bang, that latency is a slower conversation.

57:17

And so that's their cadence to solving

57:19

anything. But now if you have a

57:21

person that can validate every hypothesis really,

57:23

really quickly, like an L&M, it goes,

57:25

no, that can work, yes, that can

57:27

work, no, they can't, oh, getting close,

57:29

oh, not far, like that is like,

57:31

like, a turbocharged throughput, which is turbocharged

57:33

trial and error, which is turbo charging.

57:35

sharpening what will work and because like

57:37

you know you hear about all these

57:39

smart cats in the history and they've

57:42

gone like you know I didn't figure

57:44

out how to do something I figured

57:46

out every other way not to do

57:48

something because it's all trial and error

57:50

and what happens is if it's your

57:52

passion or your purpose or something like

57:54

that the trial and errors worth it

57:56

because you're learning and you're like, oh,

57:58

I didn't even know that. It's not

58:00

relevant, that's cool. But you appreciate everything

58:02

because you're so enthralled in it all.

58:04

And so I think LLLMs will be

58:06

a really powerful, like a, you know,

58:08

focused sharpener quicker, like it'll help expedite

58:10

that. Yeah. But I mean, so give

58:13

me a time frame. I would be

58:15

very surprised if it is longer than.

58:17

Max 15 years, likely less than 10?

58:19

Like, dude, there's a lot of different,

58:21

like, if you think about Euler and

58:23

all these cats, it solved a lot

58:25

of really powerful problems. They were so

58:27

brilliant, and we've been so fortunate to

58:29

get so much of their work downloaded

58:31

and digitized and then observed in, like,

58:33

you know, contrast with hundreds of other

58:35

pieces of work or thousands of other

58:37

bits of data. The answers there, we're

58:39

gonna get it. smells too close. So

58:42

we'll be encoding ourselves into light past

58:44

schools in 15 years? I think so.

58:46

Here's an interesting thing actually. So, you

58:48

know, Bitcoin, what are Bitcoin's biggest threats?

58:50

Is quantum a big threat? You know

58:52

what's actually a really big threat that

58:54

no one talks about? Apathy. What happens

58:56

when people don't care about money anymore?

58:58

What happens? What's a world look like

59:00

when people don't care about money? Well

59:02

in a world of free energy, right?

59:04

And we're talking about this aliens and

59:06

free energy and the plasma balls floating

59:08

over New Jersey and the pyramids like

59:10

echoing shit, all that stuff. The earth's

59:13

rumbling, like do you know what I

59:15

mean? In science, there's some rumblings right

59:17

now. And people can smell it. They

59:19

don't know what's real, what's real, what's

59:21

not, but they know, but they know,

59:23

what's not, but they know, but they

59:25

know, but they know, what's not, but

59:27

they know, but they know, what's something's

59:29

not, but they know, but they know,

59:31

but they know, what's something's up. That

59:33

is, you know, if we get, like,

59:35

right now I can pull a radio

59:37

out and tune into nothing, right? There's

59:39

nothing, yeah, I didn't tune it, it

59:42

was just always there. That same principle,

59:44

but instead of pulling a song out,

59:46

you pull energy out of the field.

59:48

That's probably what will be a really

59:50

big risk to Bitcoin, is that science

59:52

becoming very, basically understanding. energy in the

59:54

field stronger to the point where money

59:56

doesn't need to exist anymore and apathy

59:58

killed it and Bitcoin was the tool

1:00:00

to kill money because it falls on

1:00:02

its own sword the more people have

1:00:04

money. Pardon me of success for me.

1:00:06

Of course 100% because it broke us

1:00:08

out of the illusion right like it

1:00:10

ripped it off. But now it's like

1:00:13

oh but what he mean you won't

1:00:15

be rich then it because it's like

1:00:17

no no you don't get it. We

1:00:19

passed money like that was a thing

1:00:21

it's like knowledge it's like You know,

1:00:23

even growing up, like, you know, your

1:00:25

granddad had a recipe, but that was

1:00:27

it. Like, you know, it's not like,

1:00:29

oh, what's the best recipe for a

1:00:31

lasagna? It's like, people didn't know how

1:00:33

to make a lasagna. That was like

1:00:35

a secret. Like, it's like almost like,

1:00:37

oh, fuck off, get your own. You

1:00:39

know, that was knowledge. Energy probably takes

1:00:42

Bitcoin, because money doesn't exist anymore. Well,

1:00:44

I mean, I don't know if it

1:00:46

does or it doesn't, but I mean,

1:00:48

I'd find it super hard to think

1:00:50

money would exist with free energy because

1:00:52

the other reason you make money, or

1:00:54

like as in you made as a

1:00:56

species, right? You make money as a

1:00:58

species, as a proxy for energy, because

1:01:00

energy was scarce and not portable. And

1:01:02

so now it's like, yeah. plug my

1:01:04

finger into the toaster and I get

1:01:06

energy in my body or whatever it

1:01:08

is right? So we're encoding ourselves into

1:01:10

light particles but also putting our finger

1:01:13

in the toaster. I think so. I

1:01:15

think it's doable. It's pretty wild. But

1:01:17

then yeah, so now you think about

1:01:19

how competitive or how strong does Bitcoin

1:01:21

mining become if... Energy is now free.

1:01:23

It's like, well, do we need Bitcoin

1:01:25

or if we do still need it?

1:01:27

But does Bitcoin exist? Well, this is

1:01:29

the thing. So if Bitcoin still does

1:01:31

need to exist because it probably still

1:01:33

would need to exist as a heartbeat.

1:01:35

Oh, sorry, actually, no. Oh, no. So

1:01:37

this is the thing. Incription, sort of,

1:01:39

encryption, well, certain parts of encryption can

1:01:42

be broken, but certain parts will be

1:01:44

insulated. from it. For instance, Bitcoin time

1:01:46

locks, right? So if you time lock

1:01:48

it, you've got to basically get the

1:01:50

network's weight in your favor all the

1:01:52

way up to that time lock. So

1:01:54

you'd have to mine every block now.

1:01:56

And it's like if these machines don't

1:01:58

become better at solving these specific problems,

1:02:00

then that's going to basically time locks

1:02:02

become sort of the strongest future proof

1:02:04

thing possible. Because not literally, but yeah,

1:02:06

I think literally sorry. Because even if

1:02:08

you've got the private key. you can't

1:02:10

get it before me. Like as if

1:02:13

no one can get it. And so

1:02:15

that's like the principle of it is

1:02:17

like, well if everyone's got the private

1:02:19

key, then everyone has an equal chance

1:02:21

of getting it. And then it becomes

1:02:23

like, you know, it's this very insulated

1:02:25

from future risk. So it's like, I

1:02:27

don't know how it will work, but

1:02:29

some changes would have to be made,

1:02:31

but the hardest thing to break for

1:02:33

a machine I think will be Bitcoin

1:02:35

time locks. That'll be the last, the

1:02:37

last thing that it tries to kill

1:02:39

or whatever. So is this why you

1:02:42

care so much about time logs? Because

1:02:44

I remember you saying that you have

1:02:46

already time-locked Bitcoin into like after the

1:02:48

year 214 incentivized mine. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1:02:50

yeah, yeah. Explain what you did there.

1:02:52

Oh, so basically I took some Bitcoin's

1:02:54

and I, the Bitcoin reward cycle, right?

1:02:56

50, 25, blah, blah, blah. And I

1:02:58

was like, okay, that's really cool and

1:03:00

people would be like, yeah, but what

1:03:02

happens when the mining reward runs out,

1:03:04

you're, like, like, like, like, like, like,

1:03:06

like, like, like, like, who's, who's, who's,

1:03:08

who's, like, who's, who's, who's, who's, who's,

1:03:10

who's, who's, who's, who's, like, who's, who's,

1:03:13

who's, who's, who's, who's, who's, who's, who's,

1:03:15

who's, who's, who's, who's, who's, who's, who's,

1:03:17

And then there's this four-year period of

1:03:19

darkness, let's call it. It's like the

1:03:21

dark ages in Bitcoin, where the reward

1:03:23

is zero, zero, zero, zero. And then

1:03:25

it gets to block 7.14 million. And

1:03:27

then that's where there is, it restart.

1:03:29

So it's like, instead of starting with

1:03:31

50-million, it's one-100. So it's 50 million

1:03:33

satosias instead of 5 billion. And this

1:03:35

is what you've done. Yeah. And so

1:03:37

I've time-like created a, created a, created

1:03:39

a wallet, created a wallet, created a

1:03:42

wallet, created a... taken a wallet, time

1:03:44

locked it. 25 million Satoshis and have

1:03:46

done that to sort of make this

1:03:48

blueprint almost of like, hey, if you've

1:03:50

got coins or you want to chuck

1:03:52

them into the future, like, let's keep

1:03:54

this Bitcoin party going by incentivizing the

1:03:56

miners to stay around. And so what

1:03:58

if you're done with the private key

1:04:00

for that? Published it. So everyone's got

1:04:02

it. Because now everyone's got a lot

1:04:04

of ticket too. And it's like, hold

1:04:06

on, this is 50 million times the

1:04:08

block reward at the time. So imagine

1:04:10

whatever that energy commitment that energy commitment

1:04:13

is. Think about how big the energy

1:04:15

commitment could be around that time and

1:04:17

then say it's 50 million times that

1:04:19

size. So it's like every person will

1:04:21

drop everything, not every person, but like

1:04:23

it's a lot of that everyone should

1:04:25

have the ticket to. And the idea

1:04:27

was that, okay, well if everyone's got

1:04:29

it, the chance that it or right,

1:04:31

remember Earth's flying through the universe, right?

1:04:33

So Earth, I need to get this

1:04:35

thing 300 trillion kilometers from here. How

1:04:37

do I do it? Well, I can

1:04:39

hope that it's on Earth every kilometer

1:04:42

along the kilometer along the journey. How

1:04:44

do I do that? Well, let's give

1:04:46

it some meat, like something meaningful and

1:04:48

let's give away the keys so everyone's

1:04:50

got it and that just increases the

1:04:52

chance. Did you see Sailor come out

1:04:54

recently and say he's gonna burn his

1:04:56

keys? Yeah, yeah, I did, I did.

1:04:58

And I thought, because that's the premise,

1:05:00

right? Every person, if you lose your

1:05:02

coin, if I like lock these coins

1:05:04

or go to the grave with them,

1:05:06

like Jamison a lot, funniest thing ever.

1:05:08

My Bitcoin excess strategy is death. Like

1:05:11

the wisest thing I've ever seen in

1:05:13

my life. I thought it was brilliant.

1:05:15

Like, and that's why I tell my

1:05:17

friends, I'm like, dude, your extra strategy

1:05:19

is death. But that is, the whole

1:05:21

network levels up. They're more scarce. Thanks

1:05:23

for making everything more scarce. Now I

1:05:25

think in a way, I think you're

1:05:27

actually going to see people that like,

1:05:29

and you know, one of these things,

1:05:31

I feel like Bitcoin's giving me heaps.

1:05:33

Like, like insane enough. just cerebral piece

1:05:35

all this shit and I was like

1:05:37

well what could be mad like what

1:05:39

can I do with something that after

1:05:42

it to be like oh I thanks

1:05:44

to that was mad like you know

1:05:46

I really enjoyed the experience of eating

1:05:48

at your restaurant but using your coin

1:05:50

or whatever and it's like I thought

1:05:52

that was a cool way to do

1:05:54

it because it's sort of a bit

1:05:56

more positive sum like you help everyone

1:05:58

today by dying with your coins, but

1:06:00

you have a check. Bitcoin's a 4D

1:06:02

canvas, past present and future. So, you

1:06:04

know, if everyone today knows that I'm

1:06:06

dying with my coins, I'm helping everyone

1:06:08

today. But how can you help people

1:06:11

that aren't here yet? And they can

1:06:13

come in before they're here, like a

1:06:15

minor, right? How do I, how can

1:06:17

you help a minor come in? Well,

1:06:19

you keep the rewards going. So the

1:06:21

minor goes, there's 50 million, how many?

1:06:23

I don't give a far, I'm now

1:06:25

a Bitcoin minor. like that everyone will

1:06:27

be like hey I'm gonna hold hands

1:06:29

with you you're gonna hold hands with

1:06:31

me if you win some give me

1:06:33

some of you like this mega mining

1:06:35

pool because it'll be too stupid to

1:06:37

try and go yourself yeah because the

1:06:39

prize is too big exactly it's just

1:06:42

the prize is too big exactly it's

1:06:44

just the prize is too big that

1:06:46

everyone can eat and it's like I

1:06:48

was like trying to convert it to

1:06:50

barrels of oil because my hunch is

1:06:52

like by that time energy is more

1:06:54

difficult let's take a narrative right how

1:06:56

you go a hundred years ahead The

1:06:58

odds are they got more computation, the

1:07:00

odds are they got better mass problem

1:07:02

solutions or whatever, the odds are they

1:07:04

basically got better technology, but the odds

1:07:06

aren't as certain, like there is a

1:07:08

world where they get mathematically and theoretically

1:07:11

there but they don't have the energy.

1:07:13

Now if you have this whole massive,

1:07:15

like it's like a big like one-up,

1:07:17

like a spare life like shot on

1:07:19

goal or whatever for humanity, it's like,

1:07:21

we've got this one chance to do

1:07:23

something with our big time machine or

1:07:25

whatever to like un-fuck ourselves. Yeah, let's

1:07:27

use that energy we've got because the

1:07:29

energy is equivalent to like, I try

1:07:31

to ask chat JBT, but it's like,

1:07:33

you could power rocket to go around

1:07:35

the universe like three squillion times or

1:07:37

something. So if they've got a rocket

1:07:39

that they can effectively drive through you,

1:07:42

hey, it's loaded up ready for you

1:07:44

guys, just build the fucking thing. And

1:07:46

that's the weird thing is that you

1:07:48

can make these commitments to almost, yeah,

1:07:50

where people can now pursue things because

1:07:52

of something that's like already there. There's

1:07:54

the incentives already there. And yeah, but

1:07:56

there's other time locks as well. There's

1:07:58

like, you know, through that. Other time

1:08:00

locks that you've done. Yeah. So it's

1:08:02

like, there's other ones that like it's

1:08:04

like sort of important principles or messages.

1:08:06

So there's like, I think. seven scientists

1:08:08

and their scientists keys are in that

1:08:11

dark ages when the reward zero because

1:08:13

it's like oh let's put that make

1:08:15

it that like a graffiti canvas and

1:08:17

when you get the keys if you

1:08:19

add up all the coins the coin

1:08:21

the amount of coins in there is

1:08:23

the number of days they're being dead

1:08:25

for at the time I locked them

1:08:27

and the block height that they're locked

1:08:29

at is the year that they died

1:08:31

so it's like six block six point

1:08:33

nine million is the last reward year

1:08:35

or whatever of zero it's like okay

1:08:37

go in 2018 blocks and you'll find

1:08:39

Stephen Hawking's lock keys. And so all

1:08:42

these things are like little treasure maps

1:08:44

for people in the future to be

1:08:46

like, well who the fun is this

1:08:48

Stephen Hawking dude? Because the odds are

1:08:50

data is going to get very messy

1:08:52

between now and then. And so if

1:08:54

there's a private key that's just his

1:08:56

anchor of energy, it's like well, you

1:08:58

can't misunderstand it. So it's like it

1:09:00

doesn't say much. It just says, you

1:09:02

know, Nikola Tesla, Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking,

1:09:04

Romanugeanouge, Déj, Déj and Déj, Déj, Déj,

1:09:06

Déj and Dérij, Dérińuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńuńu You know fractal

1:09:08

encrypt is like a mad artist right

1:09:11

and he's like done so much cool

1:09:13

stuff and I got to have a

1:09:15

couple of conversations with him about the

1:09:17

stuff and it was like it was

1:09:19

pretty really cool feedback and understanding it

1:09:21

was just he made some amazing pieces

1:09:23

but like him I put like if

1:09:25

you know he's got a key and

1:09:27

it's you know if you put all

1:09:29

the sets together it's like this the

1:09:31

X axis at the same the bottom

1:09:33

axis at the time and the Satoshi

1:09:35

number. but it looks like FE signed

1:09:37

in the bottom so when you add

1:09:39

all the satoshes up in the wallets

1:09:42

if you plotted them like almost like

1:09:44

a connect the dots it looks like

1:09:46

a FA in the bottom right corner

1:09:48

of the blockchain and I thought that's

1:09:50

quite cool and there's another one which

1:09:52

is like a diamond which is like

1:09:54

a dependency flow so the top one's

1:09:56

like cryptography the next one's prime numbers

1:09:58

and the bottom one's numbers and it's

1:10:00

shaped sort of in these ways to

1:10:02

sort of let people sort of understand

1:10:04

what I was trying to say whether

1:10:06

it's like hieroglyphics to them or not

1:10:08

it sort of makes it worth looking

1:10:11

at for one and then they could

1:10:13

call me a fucking idiot then at

1:10:15

the time that's fine I didn't care,

1:10:17

it might be. But it's like, it's

1:10:19

still like, I was like, well, these

1:10:21

are important things, and so you don't

1:10:23

get to say much, but I mean,

1:10:25

this is how serious I was like

1:10:27

trying to connect it all together. I

1:10:29

was like, there was all these sort

1:10:31

of weird things, but it was literally

1:10:33

to the point where I had, I

1:10:35

did it, like I rode around in

1:10:37

a circle for two hours on my

1:10:39

bike while I was dropping these transactions

1:10:42

on the day, sending them. because the

1:10:44

electrical, my hunch, and I know I'm

1:10:46

going to sound ridiculous, my hunch is

1:10:48

that we've got all this data now,

1:10:50

it's all locked, the future does have

1:10:52

all that data, but it's probably unlocked

1:10:54

to them, which means they've got all

1:10:56

my Bluetooth data, all my headphone data,

1:10:58

all my this data, and I was

1:11:00

like, well these comes from the future,

1:11:02

part of my language, these dudes from

1:11:04

the future, they can probably see that

1:11:06

my phone is radiating this stuff, so

1:11:08

they're going to know that I'm riding

1:11:11

And to show them that I know

1:11:13

that they're watching, I'll keep writing in

1:11:15

a circle and I'll do one hour,

1:11:17

one way, and one hour the other

1:11:19

way, so that when they look at,

1:11:21

well, who made these transactions? If they've

1:11:23

got all the data for all the

1:11:25

IP addresses and everything in the future,

1:11:27

then they're going to be like, be

1:11:29

able to connect back to me being

1:11:31

like, you're a fucking lab man. Are

1:11:33

you okay? You know what? It's just

1:11:35

like, like, talk about like, trying trying

1:11:37

shit. My brother calls it Trevy Fountain.

1:11:39

He's like, dude, you've thrown it in

1:11:42

Trevy Fountain. Like as in, you know,

1:11:44

the Rome, the thing, and you make

1:11:46

a wish or whatever. But I was

1:11:48

like, you know what? Even if it

1:11:50

does nothing to me, I'm like, what

1:11:52

a creative exercise. Like for me, I

1:11:54

learned a lot about time locks. I

1:11:56

got to explore a lot about security

1:11:58

and stuff like that. So. For me,

1:12:00

it's like, I still think it's bad.

1:12:02

I love it. I think it's really

1:12:04

cool. It's like mentally stimulating. You're honestly

1:12:06

one of my favorite people in the

1:12:08

world to talk to. Dude, it's fucking

1:12:11

crazy. So presumably you think Saylor shouldn't

1:12:13

burn his keys, he should talk. No,

1:12:15

I reckon he should. Well, here's the

1:12:17

thing. To do, to recreate the whole

1:12:19

block cycle, like the blockchain that we've

1:12:21

got, the same rewards, but... There's like

1:12:23

a massive spot for I don't know.

1:12:25

I never thought there'd be a big

1:12:27

enough holder other than Satoshi and so

1:12:29

now it's like okay. Well, Satoshi's got

1:12:31

Hapes, but we don't know who he

1:12:33

is or how to get in touch

1:12:35

with him. So it's like maybe Saylor.

1:12:37

Yeah, it's like now Saylor's got enough.

1:12:39

It's like that's the play. Dude. If

1:12:42

you treat this chain amazingly, that every

1:12:44

country is about to get rid of

1:12:46

the biggest world war they're being in,

1:12:48

World War debt, let's say? Not World

1:12:50

War 3, World War D. And so

1:12:52

basically everyone's been fighting this invisible enemy

1:12:54

and just being like, well the taxpayer's

1:12:56

like, oh, oh, oh, like getting punched

1:12:58

in the face all the time. But

1:13:00

it's like, now, if you're helping solve

1:13:02

that, that's going to be pretty wild.

1:13:04

Like I mean... Totally Totally. And so

1:13:06

it's like, yes, I like, dude, like,

1:13:08

write your name in time. Because you

1:13:11

can write the history now, because we

1:13:13

have a history ledger. We never had

1:13:15

that before. There hasn't been a history

1:13:17

ledger that we all agree on. Now

1:13:19

it's there. And that's why it's weird,

1:13:21

but it's like, that means that now

1:13:23

because there's a consistent, unbreakable ledger, at

1:13:25

least we say it's unbreak, unbreakable, so.

1:13:27

That last really far into the future,

1:13:29

the future gets a very clear look

1:13:31

at today. That means the relationship between

1:13:33

us and the future has gotten really

1:13:35

close together. Because we're only a few

1:13:37

data points or a few look-up tables

1:13:39

away for someone in the future. to

1:13:42

understand more about us. Just the same

1:13:44

way we look at videos of kids

1:13:46

from you know the 1900s when there's

1:13:48

like the first TV ever and it's

1:13:50

like look at everyone looking at it

1:13:52

like foreign monkeys or something it's like

1:13:54

so weird but that's probably happening now

1:13:56

just like just like the radio is

1:13:58

sitting in the room with us right

1:14:00

now if I tune in the special

1:14:02

instrument our brains are probably the same

1:14:04

thing and So if we're all in

1:14:06

this big field of electricity, just like

1:14:08

this, it's probably that a lot of

1:14:11

our thoughts could be also us, just

1:14:13

in different futures, basically. So it's like

1:14:15

all these thoughts are being connected, how

1:14:17

would you connect something? Will you connect

1:14:19

it through electricity and run electricity through

1:14:21

something, right? If we're all in this

1:14:23

big field of electricity, odds are I'm

1:14:25

gonna use electricity to communicate with your

1:14:27

node. So I don't know, I just

1:14:29

think there's a whole can of worms

1:14:31

where we might be sort of. Yeah,

1:14:33

we know that like the futures kind

1:14:35

of hit with it. Did you just

1:14:37

say that your thoughts of the future

1:14:40

are you talking to yourself? I think

1:14:42

that's a very good candidate of a

1:14:44

possibility. Like, or the expert mode, if

1:14:46

we live in a multiverse, which is

1:14:48

probably going to be the case, like

1:14:50

we live in some multiverse, I always

1:14:52

think of like your thoughts are the

1:14:54

smartest version of you out of all

1:14:56

multiverses? Mine on. Well, no, no, no.

1:14:58

As it's meant, it's a lemon party

1:15:00

in here. But it's like literally that

1:15:02

I always thought, okay, it sort of

1:15:04

delegates it to the expert at that,

1:15:06

whoever that is in whatever universe they

1:15:08

are, but you can connect with them.

1:15:11

And it's like, well, what does faster

1:15:13

than like travel look like, right? Oh,

1:15:15

but you go really fast and it

1:15:17

all turns blue and everything stretches. No,

1:15:19

you'd be there. It'd be that. So

1:15:21

we don't even know that we're not

1:15:23

doing that already. Like, you know, like,

1:15:25

you know, with, we still can't we

1:15:27

still can't really explain our really explain

1:15:29

our thoughts. What our bodies are is

1:15:31

just signatures of energy and that's everything

1:15:33

every experience when I do that touching

1:15:35

my fingers together I'm not actually touching

1:15:37

myself. That's literally there's a suit around

1:15:40

me of like one atom thick suit

1:15:42

That's basically telling me what the field

1:15:44

is projecting me That's not crazy to

1:15:46

think we're like a you know Zelda

1:15:48

in a video game. The pixels are

1:15:50

being pushed on to us and they're

1:15:52

being architected somewhere else That's sort of

1:15:54

what we've got we've got an electron

1:15:56

suit on and basically our ears that's

1:15:58

one the semiotong taste. We basically got

1:16:00

this one suit on where we're trying

1:16:02

to compress all this information and particles

1:16:04

into our suit. But our suit is

1:16:06

finite. So like we're gonna see the

1:16:08

idea to be able to recreate what

1:16:11

we see in front of us. Like

1:16:13

just like we've reproduced sounds out of

1:16:15

machines, we're gonna reproduce experiences with such

1:16:17

high fidelity that it feels like you're

1:16:19

there because it's putting the same particles

1:16:21

onto my skin that would be there.

1:16:23

And when you think about this like,

1:16:25

it's almost like we're pixels in the

1:16:27

universe in a way. And the reason

1:16:29

why I think this is gonna happen

1:16:31

is because we're just a field. Like

1:16:33

imagine I'm standing here and we divvied

1:16:35

up this box of air into. you

1:16:37

know, like one quantity units or whatever,

1:16:40

it's just basically marking them with a

1:16:42

specific like vibration frequency. And so when

1:16:44

you think about the size of LLLM's,

1:16:46

right, hundreds of trillions or hundreds of

1:16:48

billions of tokens or whatever, they're almost

1:16:50

like a box, almost like a neural

1:16:52

network of particles in the same way.

1:16:54

Now they're very small because, you know,

1:16:56

they're whatever, one millimeter by one millimeter,

1:16:58

or however many tokens, but that technology

1:17:00

of understanding neural nets. and that relationship

1:17:02

with them, mixed with understanding numbers better

1:17:04

and how that number connects to that

1:17:06

number, that will probably amplify the strength

1:17:08

of neural nets and understanding more predictably

1:17:11

how they operate. And then I think,

1:17:13

yeah, with that, then we can probably

1:17:15

reconstruct our field around us with enough

1:17:17

fidelity. So the field now says that

1:17:19

I'm sitting in front of a Mac

1:17:21

laptop and new and I can hear

1:17:23

something and I can smell something. He

1:17:25

goes, okay, cool. change what he's gonna

1:17:27

smell? How do you do that? We'll

1:17:29

change every single particle that runs through

1:17:31

his sinus and up to his brain

1:17:33

or whatever. Because like if you think

1:17:35

about our ears, there's like, imagine like

1:17:37

a 3D view or whatever, cross section.

1:17:40

There's like a tunnel that goes in

1:17:42

there, right? Like this far in. All

1:17:44

we're trying to do is match the

1:17:46

particles that it would be hearing, like

1:17:48

match the same vibrations. And so when

1:17:50

you sort of slice it up into

1:17:52

just a few small particles, and you're

1:17:54

like well. Okay, so we've got to

1:17:56

get 100 trillion particles for this. In

1:17:58

a, you know, in a hundred years,

1:18:00

could I imagine the compute power to

1:18:02

be able to do 100 trillion of

1:18:04

anything? Yes. Like, is that probable? Yes.

1:18:06

And so it's like, we... all just

1:18:08

almost like our own block chains where

1:18:11

you know the block height the difficulty

1:18:13

the previous hash you know the version

1:18:15

and the next hash or the whatever

1:18:17

there's five of them stamped that's a

1:18:19

block that's a moment what did you

1:18:21

hear what did you smell what did

1:18:23

you see bang compress that that's a

1:18:25

moment and so when I say what's

1:18:27

your favorite moment ever if you had

1:18:29

a time if I heard this machine

1:18:31

next to me I'd say what does

1:18:33

it smell like what did it look

1:18:35

like hot or colda? Warmer, not warmer.

1:18:37

It's like you're talking to an L&M

1:18:40

where you're sharpening the scene saying, no,

1:18:42

no, no, it's smelt more citrusy. Yeah,

1:18:44

yeah, like that. No, no, no, he

1:18:46

was wearing red shorts, and then you

1:18:48

press play and your field will be

1:18:50

manipulated basically. I don't know, it sounds

1:18:52

weird, but I think it's super doable.

1:18:54

I mean, fuck VR, I want this.

1:18:56

And so when you think about... What

1:18:58

can we learn from that? It's like,

1:19:00

well think about how immersive experiences are

1:19:02

going to be. And now you think

1:19:04

about if the future does have that,

1:19:06

but they've got a record of electricity,

1:19:08

which is Bitcoin, they can use that

1:19:11

to reconstruct the past with a lot

1:19:13

more fidelity and actually recreate what happened

1:19:15

in the past with like absolute fidelity

1:19:17

because like accuracy, whatever the terms, I

1:19:19

don't know what fidelity means, but accuracy

1:19:21

I think, doesn't it? Yeah, we'll go

1:19:23

with it. All right, cool. Cool, cool.

1:19:25

My mind has been blowing too much.

1:19:27

No, but you know what I mean?

1:19:29

So when you put that together, you're

1:19:31

like, okay, they're probably going to be

1:19:33

able to make scene reconstructions, which is

1:19:35

sort of aligning the particles to make

1:19:37

it sort of aligning the particles to

1:19:40

make it sort of fill and look

1:19:42

like we're there. Okay. They're probably going

1:19:44

to have heaps of data because Bitcoin's

1:19:46

been this spine through history all the

1:19:48

way through all the way through. Like

1:19:50

that doesn't feel unreasonable for 30 years,

1:19:52

let alone 100. Dude. It's doable. Maybe

1:19:54

it's already been done. And they're watching

1:19:56

us right now. Talk about them maybe

1:19:58

doing it. They're like, oh. But you

1:20:01

know? you that could be it. Well,

1:20:03

you don't know. be it's cool to

1:20:05

wonder. know. It's very cool. to don't

1:20:07

even know where. That's enough mind blowing

1:20:09

I for me for even know where, shitting

1:20:11

my pants. mind-blowing shit for me for adore talking

1:20:13

to you, man. Yeah, lot of fun.

1:20:16

Dude, thank you very much. I was

1:20:18

gonna say, where do you want

1:20:20

to send anyone? But you're just riding

1:20:22

around in circles on bikes now,

1:20:24

so. shouting my that literally is like a

1:20:26

I'm like, like a mental hospital, the

1:20:28

way. I'm just riding around my pants. No. to one

1:20:30

one they're giving away. Okay. He's he's crazy. Send

1:20:33

Send him away. He's away away like Dude, dollars.

1:20:35

Idiot like fastie. Anyway, Anyway, whatever. know, give it a go.

1:20:37

give it a go. crack. I'm give

1:20:39

it a crack. I'm happy to be

1:20:41

the stock. No, No, you're not. That's

1:20:43

amazing. I appreciate you. Thank you for

1:20:45

the time. Thank you, Thank you, it. Cheers.

1:20:48

it. Cheers.