0:00

And I say that speaking for President

0:02

Trump, we want to reinvigorate the security

0:04

of the people of Greenland because we

0:06

think it's important to protecting the security

0:09

of the entire world. So I'm going

0:11

to go check it out. That's Jady

0:13

Vance, the US Vice President, talking on

0:15

Tuesday. And today, Friday, he'll be checking

0:18

out Greenland. Though he won't be seeing

0:20

much of it. What was meant to

0:22

be a cultural visit has been scaled

0:24

right back. Instead Jady Vance and his

0:26

wife will only be visiting a remote

0:29

US military base military base. And that's

0:31

because not everyone in Greenland is exactly

0:33

thrilled about the trip or about what

0:35

he and President Donald Trump have been

0:37

saying about their island, basically that they

0:40

wanted to be part of America. And

0:42

this isn't the first time Trump has

0:44

had his eye on Greenland. Back in

0:46

2019, during his first term, he tried

0:49

to buy it. Greenland in Denmark, which

0:51

controls the island, made one thing very

0:53

clear. It's not for sale? So in

0:55

this episode we're asking why does President

0:58

Trump want Greenland to be part of

1:00

the United States? I'm Hannah Gelbart and

1:02

this is what in the world from

1:04

the BBC World Service. To get to

1:07

the bottom of this here in the

1:09

studio with me is Laura Gotsey a

1:11

BBC journalist. Hello. Hi. So let's start

1:13

off with the basics. Laura can you

1:16

tell us a few facts about... Greenland.

1:18

Sure. So, it's the world's largest island,

1:20

which is not a continent, that's of

1:22

course Australia. It's located in the Arctic.

1:24

It's the most sparsely populated territory, so

1:27

it's huge, but only about 56,000 people

1:29

live there, as the vast majority of

1:31

it is covered in ice. And it's

1:33

a self-governing territory of Denmark. So this

1:36

means that it has its own government,

1:38

but is part of the Danish kingdom,

1:40

and Denmark decides things like its foreign

1:42

policy and gives it huge subsidies. And

1:44

Greenland has actually wanted to be independent

1:46

from Denmark for a really long time

1:48

and might end up becoming independent through

1:50

a referendum in the next few years.

1:52

What is it about Greenland that Donald

1:54

Trump wants so badly? So he says

1:56

it's for defence purposes. So if Russia

1:59

attacked the US... it would be much

2:01

easier to intercept nuclear weapons through Greenland.

2:03

Trump is also really interested in the

2:05

mining potential of Greenland. So as I

2:08

mentioned it's covered in ice and as

2:10

that ice melts it's uncovering a lot

2:12

of rare and very valuable materials that

2:14

Trump is interested in. I imagine climate

2:17

change has something to do with that

2:19

and it might make less of Greenland

2:21

to be covered by ice in the

2:24

near future. Let's hear from President Trump

2:26

now. This was him speaking earlier this

2:28

month. And I also have a

2:30

message tonight for the incredible people

2:32

of Greenland. We strongly support your

2:34

right to determine... your own future

2:36

and if you choose we welcome

2:38

you into the United States of

2:40

America. We need Greenland for national

2:42

security and even international security and

2:44

we're working with everybody involved to

2:47

try and get it and I

2:49

think we're going to get it one way

2:51

or the other we're going to get it. One

2:53

way or another I think we're going to

2:55

get it. It sounds almost threatening. How true

2:57

is that do you think? How would a

3:00

potential transfer of Greenland to the US even

3:02

work? So it wouldn't be straightforward at

3:04

all. I guess the first step

3:06

would be that Greenland should become

3:08

independent of Denmark through a referendum

3:10

and this might happen but again

3:12

not for a number of years,

3:14

five at the very least. And

3:16

then after independence it would have

3:18

to forge ties and somehow become

3:20

a part of the US but

3:22

this will be unprecedented so the

3:24

technicalities that are huge. Otherwise I

3:26

mean I suppose yes the US

3:28

could invade. But the US is

3:30

a member of NATO as is

3:32

Denmark. So what happens if a

3:35

member of NATO attacks another member

3:37

of NATO? unclear. NATO, that's the

3:39

North Atlantic Treaty Organization that was

3:42

created in 1949 and the idea

3:44

is that member states, if one

3:46

of them is attacked, then everyone

3:49

will defend each other. Let's just

3:51

say that Trump hasn't really gone

3:53

into very much detail over how

3:56

he would do this. A few years

3:58

ago in 2019, he flows... the idea

4:00

of buying Greenland. And the Danish

4:02

Prime Minister basically told him, I mean,

4:04

absolutely not. So they never got

4:06

to the point of discussing how much

4:09

that would even cost. But I

4:11

mean, it's so, it's so speculative. It's,

4:13

yeah, the detail is not there

4:15

yet. As you've said, Greenland is controlled

4:17

by Denmark. It has been for

4:19

about 300 years. Do people in Greenland

4:21

want to be independent from Denmark?

4:24

They do. In recent years, particularly, I

4:26

think there's been a real focus

4:28

being put on national identity. And

4:31

so they had elections recently and

4:33

I think five out of the

4:35

six parties that were running basically

4:37

were pushing for independence or were

4:39

promising to put a referendum on

4:41

the cards soon enough. And according

4:43

to recent polls, almost 80 %

4:45

of Greenlanders actually want independence from

4:47

Denmark. So it is a popular

4:49

idea. And I do think it

4:51

will happen. It's just there's a

4:54

long way ahead. And how have

4:56

Greenlanders reacted to Trump's comments? Do

4:58

they want to be part of

5:00

America? Overwhelmingly, no. A survey

5:02

only a few months ago showed

5:04

that 85 % of them reject the

5:06

idea of becoming part of the yes.

5:08

They certainly wouldn't want to become

5:10

independent of Denmark just to end up

5:13

being ruled by somebody else. So

5:15

there have been huge protests, well, in

5:17

relative terms, because it's a small

5:19

population, but, you know, protests in

5:22

Greenland's capital, Nuuk, outside of the

5:24

US consulate. And certainly at a

5:26

political level as well. Greenland leaders

5:28

have basically said that Trump's comments

5:30

have been disrespectful. And the Danish

5:32

PM, on the other hand, as

5:34

well, has accused the US of

5:36

putting unacceptable pressure on Greenland. Let's

5:38

hear some reaction from Greenlanders now.

5:41

My name is Morgan Angaill. I'm

5:43

26 years old. And I'm both

5:45

Danish and Greenlandic. And I live here

5:47

in Ilulisset, Greenland. Here in Greenland, we

5:49

are incredibly proud of our culture, our

5:51

land, our people, and our flag. We

5:53

are on a path to watch independence

5:55

while maintaining a strong and value partnership

5:58

with Denmark. The Danish family

6:00

is even deeply loved and respected

6:02

here. And when it comes to

6:04

Trump, many of us are afraid

6:06

of him. He sees Greenland as

6:08

nothing more than a business deal, a

6:10

way to make money for the US. But

6:13

enough is enough. Greenland will not

6:15

be bullied and we will certainly

6:17

not be taken over. Right now

6:19

people in both Greenland and Denmark

6:22

are working hard to boycott American

6:24

products. In my eyes, the US

6:26

is no longer a role model.

6:28

When I think about security,

6:30

cooperation and a true ally, my

6:32

trust lies with Greenland, Denmark,

6:34

the European Union and

6:37

Canada. Hi, my name is

6:39

Linda Ljobacostjansen. I'm 26 years

6:41

old. We don't want to

6:43

be a part of the

6:45

US. We don't want to

6:47

be Americans. Greenland's location and

6:49

natural resources make it valuable

6:51

geopolitically, but that doesn't justify

6:53

trading as a piece of

6:55

real estate. his approach completely

6:57

disregarded the voices of Greenlanders

6:59

and our right to shape

7:01

our own future, rather than

7:03

being exploded by foreign powers,

7:05

we should be supported in

7:08

strengthening our independence economy

7:10

in global partnership on our

7:12

own terms. It is important to say

7:14

that although this appears to be the

7:17

majority view, there are some people who

7:19

haven't objected to the idea of a

7:21

Trump takeover. Earlier we

7:23

mentioned that the US Vice President

7:25

JD Vance is now visiting Greenland.

7:27

He's there along with his wife.

7:29

Why is he deciding to do

7:31

this visit now? I suppose they

7:33

want to show that US interest

7:35

in Greenland is not waning. I

7:37

mean there's sometimes this idea with

7:40

Trump that he's got a lot

7:42

of areas of interest, let's say, and

7:44

he will sometimes be more focused on

7:46

one or the other. I suppose a

7:48

lot of people both in Greenland and

7:51

Denmark were kind of hoping that he

7:53

would lose interest in Greenland along the

7:55

way and I suppose this is him

7:57

showing that he hasn't. Now Vance's visit...

8:00

is kind of is a development that came

8:02

later this week because earlier in the

8:04

week it was announced that only his

8:06

wife Usha would be going and that

8:08

she would be staying for several days

8:10

and that she would be going as

8:12

a private citizen and going to various

8:14

cultural events like this dog sled race

8:16

that they have that you know Greenland's

8:18

are very attached to and then it

8:20

turned out that that her husband the

8:22

vice president was also going to go

8:24

and now they've reduced their visit to

8:26

a one-day only visit to the US

8:28

base. which actually is almost, some have

8:30

seen as the US kind of scaling

8:33

down to make it less controversial

8:35

and also crucially to expose the

8:37

vances, to make them less exposed

8:39

to potential protests. I was going

8:41

to ask about that, how have

8:43

Greenlanders reacted to the fact that

8:45

he's going? Yeah, not well, I

8:47

think they just they just do

8:49

see it as a foreign imposition

8:51

They don't they don't really understand

8:53

how seriously to take Trump's threats

8:55

again as we said earlier It's

8:57

it's very thin on detail So

9:00

I think they're very concerned, but they

9:02

don't really know how exactly he would

9:04

even go about it. So I think

9:06

there probably is quite a lot of

9:08

nervousness on the island and when when

9:10

it seemed that Vance was going to

9:12

go on a longer visit, they you

9:15

know, they certainly tried to the idea

9:17

down and I think they've managed to

9:19

make them scale it down. Laura, thank

9:21

you so much for coming into the

9:23

studio. And that is it for

9:25

today. You can find all the latest

9:27

updates on this story and Jady Vance

9:29

and his wife's visit to Greenland on

9:32

the BBC News website. And if you

9:34

like this one, do check out our

9:36

other episodes. We're on all the main

9:38

podcast platforms and on the BBC World

9:40

Service YouTube channel, where you can come

9:42

join us, see us chatting away in

9:44

the studio. We have got video episodes

9:46

on all kinds of topics like Why

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the World buys India's Hair for Wigs

9:51

and how to spot a Tiktop wellness

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scam. You've. service with me Hannah Gelbot

9:55

and we'll see you next time. Bye!