0:00

A. Julian here. If you're a regular

0:02

listener, you might remember a story that

0:04

we did last year about scammer farms.

0:06

Most scams these days. They're being run

0:09

by people living in slavery from these

0:11

so-called scammer farms. And it's a pretty

0:13

scary bleak situation. So we've launched a

0:15

new multi-part documentary series called Scammerland. You're

0:18

going to hear some stories of people

0:20

who have been abducted into this system

0:22

and then escaped. And then we're going

0:25

to really unpack how this business model

0:27

got started, who runs it, who runs

0:29

it. and who is trying to

0:32

stop it. It's on Apple

0:34

podcasts, but it's also on

0:36

YouTube and Spotify, if you'd

0:39

like to watch the video

0:41

version. That's Scammerland,

0:44

Help Online Therapy bought

0:47

this 30-second ad to

0:49

remind you right now,

0:52

wherever you are, to

0:54

unclench your jaw. Relax

0:57

your shoulders. Take a

0:59

deep breath in and

1:02

out. Feels better, right?

1:04

That's 15 seconds of

1:07

self-care. Imagine what you

1:09

could do with more.

1:12

Visit better help. Imagine what you could do with more. Visit better

1:14

help.com/random podcast for 10%

1:16

off your first month

1:18

of therapy. No pressure,

1:20

just help. But for

1:23

now, just relax. Hey

1:25

Prime Hey Prime members, are

1:27

you tired of ads interfering with

1:29

your favorite podcasts? Good news. With

1:31

Amazon Music, you have access to

1:33

the largest catalog of ad-free top

1:35

podcasts, included with your prime membership.

1:37

To To start listening, download the

1:40

Amazon start listening, download the Amazon Music app for free. music app for

1:42

free. Or go to

1:44

amazon.com/ad-free podcasts. That's amazon.com/ad-free

1:46

podcasts to catch up

1:48

on the latest episodes

1:51

without the Worry about what

1:53

ingredients are hiding in your groceries.

1:55

Let us take the guest work

1:57

out. We're Thrive Market, the online

1:59

grocery store with the highest quality

2:01

standards in the industry. We restrict

2:03

1,000 plus ingredients. So you can

2:06

trust that you'll only find the

2:08

best high quality, and sustainable brands,

2:10

all free of the junk. With

2:12

savings up to 30% off and

2:14

fast carbon neutral shipping, you get

2:16

top trusted groceries at your door.

2:18

And you can stop worrying groceries

2:20

at your free ads. gift. shopping

2:23

at Thrive market.com slash podcast

2:25

for 30% off your first order and a

2:27

free gift. Hey,

2:34

I'm Julian Morgan's and you're

2:37

listening to what it was

2:39

like. The show that asks

2:41

people who have lived through

2:44

big dramatic events what it

2:46

was like. Hey, happy New

2:48

Year, wherever you are in

2:50

the world, happy New Year.

2:52

Happy New Year. Wherever you

2:55

are in the world, happy

2:57

New Year. We're excited

2:59

about 2025. Last year. this podcast

3:01

kind of hit critical mass it

3:03

became my full-time job so thank

3:05

you thanks for that thanks for

3:07

coming along for the journey and

3:09

this year I want to reward

3:11

you with great stories with like

3:13

the best stories that we can find

3:15

and we're gonna start with this one

3:17

it's a long one all right you

3:19

might have looked at the number next

3:21

to it being like over an hour

3:23

wow but this is good so congratulations

3:26

you've clicked on a banger the other week

3:28

I told you that my favorite

3:30

technique for finding stories is to look

3:32

at movies and to see if their

3:34

plots have played out in the real

3:36

world. And this week we're doing it

3:38

again with a film that I've always

3:40

loved, Notting Hill. I think I

3:42

first saw Notting Hill at the age of

3:45

about 14, and I thought it was just

3:47

such a fun film. And it was kind

3:49

of this thing that I was like, hmm,

3:51

I hope that happens to me one day.

3:54

I think that's what appeals to everyone about

3:56

Nottingham Hill. It's the story of just like

3:58

a regular person. This guy... played by

4:00

Hugh Grant who owns a bookstore

4:02

and one day he just happens

4:05

to meet this Hollywood mega star

4:07

played by Julia Roberts and they

4:09

fall in love and have a

4:11

relationship and you know shenanigans in

4:14

Sue. Anyway I always thought that

4:16

this would be an interesting narrative

4:18

template to explore in the real

4:20

world. So I've been chasing this

4:22

story for years. You know this

4:25

this is a thing that happens.

4:27

Celebrities really do date regular people

4:29

but the regular people who experience

4:31

this. They never want to talk

4:34

about it. So I've emailed so

4:36

many people. I think I started

4:38

emailing people in about like 2018.

4:40

Very few have ever responded. Until

4:42

finally, a few weeks ago. My

4:45

guest today is Myra Morgensen and

4:47

I came across Myra on TikTok.

4:49

She's been posting these viral videos

4:51

about her experience dating an anonymous

4:54

Hollywood actor. And I reached out

4:56

and I asked her to come

4:58

on the podcast and there was

5:00

just one condition. I asked her,

5:03

Maa, please, do you think you

5:05

could tell us who you dated?

5:07

And she was like, yeah, sure,

5:09

no worries. She dated a guy

5:11

named Tony Revolori. And you might

5:14

be wondering, wait, who's Tony Revolori?

5:16

But trust me, you've seen this

5:18

guy before. He's one of those

5:20

actors whose faces you just recognize,

5:23

even if you don't know his

5:25

name. He's been a longtime collaborator

5:27

with Wes Anderson, with his most

5:29

famous role as the lobby boy

5:31

in the Grand Budapestest hotel. He

5:34

also appeared in the French Dispatch

5:36

and Asteroid City. But he's been

5:38

in a few Marvel movies as

5:40

well. He's played a character named

5:43

Flash Thompson in four Spider-Man films.

5:45

So maybe Tony isn't an A-lister,

5:47

but he's definitely Hollywood enough to

5:49

provide a pretty strange ride if

5:51

just a normal person dates him.

5:54

And today, Maya spills the beans

5:56

on what it's like to data

5:58

celebrity. And I love this story,

6:00

you know, it's such a familiar

6:03

fantasy. This idea of marrying or

6:05

dating up, it's so, it's so

6:07

intuitive. in our culture. Think about

6:09

Cinderella or Pretty Woman or any

6:11

story where someone is plucked from

6:14

obscurity and they're given money and

6:16

power and prestige. It's a narrative

6:18

that's captivated us for centuries. And

6:20

here's how it plays out in

6:23

the real world. But as Maya

6:25

reveals the fantasy comes with some

6:27

complications. Especially when you're dating someone

6:29

with a Hollywood-sized ego. So anyway,

6:31

that's enough talk from me. Let's

6:34

do it. Here is. Here is.

6:36

Maya Morgenstern. Hey Maya, welcome to

6:38

the show. Hi! That was a

6:40

very cute response, just to immediately

6:43

jump into giggling. You know what

6:45

said? Can I just say real

6:47

fast? This is actually how I

6:49

am. I'm like a chronic giggler.

6:51

And I know we're going to

6:54

get into it. But so many

6:56

people think that my laugh is

6:58

like this contrived fake thing that

7:00

I'm doing. And it's really genuinely

7:03

just... How I am. It's just

7:05

you. No, I didn't think it

7:07

was fake nor contract. How horrible.

7:09

Thank you. I appreciate that. So

7:11

many people. I was like, oh

7:14

my gosh. Anyways. Let's let's let's

7:16

talk about you and you live

7:18

in LA now, but you didn't

7:20

grow up there, right? So give

7:23

us a sense of like your

7:25

childhood and how you got to

7:27

this point. Sure, yeah, so

7:29

I was born in Fort Lauderdale,

7:31

so I'm originally from South Florida.

7:33

I lived in South Florida my

7:36

whole entire life, so I was

7:38

raised by my mom, I'm the

7:40

youngest of five, I was homeschooled

7:42

for a long time, I went

7:44

to college in Orlando Florida, so

7:46

like 45 minutes from Disney, and

7:48

then after I graduated... in May

7:50

of 2018. and in July of

7:52

2018 I drove to Los Angeles

7:54

and moved there. And so I

7:56

lived in LA ever since, so

7:59

2018 to now. Wow, wow. So

8:01

this is kind of like the

8:03

aspiring actor mythology here. You know,

8:05

this is the big, the drive

8:07

across the country to chase your

8:09

dreams in Los Angeles. It must

8:11

have felt pretty cool to do

8:13

that. Yeah, it's a bit of

8:15

a stereotype, but it is something

8:17

where, you know, I am... ever

8:19

since I was a little kid

8:22

I knew I vividly remember like

8:24

I knew from the age of

8:26

five that I wanted to be

8:28

in film and and when I

8:30

moved to Los Angeles I was

8:32

my my approach was I'm going

8:34

to tackle it from both sides

8:36

so I'm gonna pursue acting but

8:38

then I'm also going to pursue

8:40

directing because if one or the

8:42

other hits then I'll get to

8:45

do the other one so let's

8:47

just try both yeah and so

8:49

that's uh that's really what happened

8:51

and yeah it was extremely exciting

8:53

I hold on to that feeling

8:55

I remember so vividly that summer,

8:57

like driving into Los Angeles and

8:59

just seeing, it was nighttime when

9:01

we finally got in, and just

9:03

seeing all of the cars and

9:05

just lights from all of the

9:07

traffic. And it really felt like

9:10

a scene in La La Land

9:12

where you're like, I'm here. And

9:14

that is. that's a feeling that

9:16

I'm like nostalgic for yeah because

9:18

it was so exciting to just

9:20

like finally get there you know

9:22

yeah yeah I mean I can

9:24

presume that you've spent some time

9:26

on film sets in the last

9:28

couple of years did you meet

9:30

Tony on a film set I

9:33

wish we did. Honestly, I think

9:35

that would have been more fun.

9:37

I think it would have been

9:39

interesting because I, my career in

9:41

filmmaking has always been behind the

9:43

camera, whereas obviously he is in

9:45

front of the camera. And so

9:47

I think surely it would have

9:49

been more romantic if we met

9:51

on a film set in a

9:53

very, you know, Hollywood kind of

9:56

way. But we did not. How

9:58

did you mate? In the most

10:00

boring, modern way, we met on

10:02

a dating app. That's okay. But

10:04

I met Tony on Riah, so

10:06

I was on Riah. Obviously, his

10:08

profile came up on my dating

10:10

app, and I remember thinking, oh,

10:12

I bet you he's funny. It

10:14

was my first reaction. I was

10:16

like, I bet you he's funny.

10:19

I bet you he's funny. I

10:21

am obviously somebody that likes to

10:23

laugh. I don't hide that fact

10:25

about me. And so I thought,

10:27

great, let's just see. Did you

10:29

know him? You saw the photos,

10:31

you were like, oh, it's the

10:33

guy from Wes Anderson films. Okay,

10:35

I will say this. as a

10:37

film major and this is where

10:39

this is where my brain unfortunately

10:41

romanticizes things is as a film

10:44

major my freshman year it was

10:46

2013 yeah no 2014 and this

10:48

was when Grand Budapest came out

10:50

and I had never seen a

10:52

West Anderson movie and I was

10:54

in my first semester of film

10:56

school and Grand Budapest was a

10:58

required film film and so I

11:00

watched it and I Oh my

11:02

god, this is the most amazing

11:04

movie I've ever seen. And I

11:07

thought Tony was so phenomenal in

11:09

it and it was one of

11:11

my favorite films that I had

11:13

been, you know, all throughout. And

11:15

so when he showed up on

11:17

my raya, I thought, yes, of

11:19

course, like I knew him from

11:21

Grand Budapest Hotel, but I didn't

11:23

really know his other filmography and

11:25

I can't emphasize enough that I

11:27

was not a fan girl. Like

11:30

I did not know him in

11:32

that way, I didn't know anything

11:34

about his career otherwise, but I

11:36

did know that he was, of

11:38

course, the lobby boy. And as

11:40

a freshman in film school, I

11:42

did think the lobby boy was

11:44

cute. Like I was so jealous

11:46

of, and it also has an

11:48

actress, like I was jealous of

11:50

Shur Shorronin's character, you know, I

11:53

was like, oh my gosh, whatever.

11:55

So in a kind of serendip-

11:57

way I did think like oh

11:59

how cute is this that like

12:01

a dorky film major is like

12:03

matching with you know a West

12:05

Anderson character like to me I

12:07

think that's cute I think that's

12:09

cute I think that's cute I

12:11

think that's cute and it's also

12:13

like what an amazing experience this

12:15

is so LA and you're like

12:18

oh I get to go on

12:20

a date with this guy how

12:22

fun yeah so I matched with

12:24

him and I can I ask

12:26

what was his opener so it

12:28

was Thanksgiving and he asked me

12:30

I think it was just something

12:32

to the effect of like oh

12:34

you know what are you doing

12:36

or like hey how are you

12:38

like are you doing anything for

12:41

you know the holiday and I

12:43

said yeah I'm skateboarding I'm going

12:45

out I'm like going skateboarding and

12:47

he made some quip about like

12:49

oh gosh like if I went

12:51

skateboarding I would like bust my

12:53

knees and I thought that was

12:55

I don't have funny and then

12:57

he started talking about his little

12:59

brother and how he's like yeah

13:01

I'm gonna go chase my little

13:04

brother down the street and so

13:06

he was kind of saying all

13:08

of these quirky things that I

13:10

thought were interesting and I was

13:12

like okay well have fun and

13:14

so then the next day he

13:16

sent me a message that was

13:18

you know something to the effect

13:20

of at the risk of moving

13:22

too fast you know can can

13:24

I give you my number? And

13:27

I was like, sure, you can

13:29

give me your number. And so

13:31

we started texting very quickly after

13:33

that. And he asked me on

13:35

a date, I think that Tuesday.

13:37

So Thursday, Thanksgiving. And then he

13:39

was like, when are you free

13:41

next? I think I have Sunday

13:43

or Tuesday. Do you want to

13:45

go on a date? Like, can

13:47

I take you out to dinner?

13:49

And in my mind, I'm like.

13:52

Getting a date in LA is

13:54

so hard, I was like, absolutely!

13:56

Like, let's go! And so he

13:58

took me to a sushi restaurant

14:00

near his place. And I remember

14:02

being like, okay, if this is

14:04

the only date I get with

14:06

this guy, I want to make

14:08

a good impression. So I have

14:10

this like kind of pleated skirt.

14:12

It's like a short skirt. It's

14:15

like a schoolgirl kind of skirt.

14:17

And I feel like all guys

14:19

think girls in school. skirts are

14:21

like very attractive. So I like

14:23

put on my skirt. Yeah, you're

14:25

right. You're right. Yes. So I

14:27

put on my school girl skirt

14:29

and I put on my tights

14:31

and I had like a sweater.

14:33

It was very like Velma Scooby-Doo,

14:35

but kind of like emo and

14:38

cool. And you know, I painted

14:40

my nails black. I had all

14:42

my rings on and drove to

14:44

drove to his part of town

14:46

to go on our sushi date.

14:48

And I remember I got there

14:50

like kind of early and I

14:52

texted him and I was like,

14:54

hey I'm here but no rush.

14:56

And he was like, oh my

14:58

gosh, I'm so surprised that you're

15:01

there on time. I was like

15:03

expecting you to be late. I'm

15:05

so sorry, let me rush over

15:07

there. And I was like, no

15:09

worry, it's all good. So I

15:11

was waiting outside the restaurant and

15:13

it was really dark and he

15:15

just kind of like walked up.

15:17

And when I looked at him

15:19

and he looked at me, there's

15:21

sort of this moment where I

15:23

was like, he had this sort

15:26

of very soft kind of quiet

15:28

demeanor. He has these glasses that

15:30

he wears when he is meeting

15:32

somebody or if he's in a

15:34

situation where he might socially get

15:36

nervous because it almost like adds

15:38

a layer of protection. And so

15:40

I remember being like this just

15:42

this like cute nerdy guy with

15:44

like glasses and he seems so

15:46

sweet. And he was a gentleman,

15:49

you know, he was very much

15:51

like... the whole after you and

15:53

what would you like? Like he

15:55

was very very polite. Which for

15:57

me was like, it was very

15:59

attractive. He was very well-dressed. Like

16:01

he was very well-sposed. Did he

16:03

smell good? I think he did.

16:05

I think he did. He didn't

16:07

smell bad. I don't remember that.

16:09

Yeah, that's the main thing. That's

16:12

the key. Yes. And, you know,

16:14

it was truly such a lovely

16:16

day. I mean, really, actually one

16:18

of the best first dates I've

16:20

ever had. Yeah, it was very,

16:22

very nice. You know, when we

16:24

sat down at the restaurant, we

16:26

did not talk about each other's

16:28

careers, which I think in LA,

16:30

that's usually an opener. It's always,

16:32

well, what do you do? It's

16:35

sort of, it was one of

16:37

those things where I felt like,

16:39

okay, we are not meeting to

16:41

talk about our careers, or that

16:43

is not going to be part

16:45

of this relationship. We're both secure

16:47

in what we do. We're just

16:49

genuinely getting to meet each other.

16:51

You know, like I'm very secure

16:53

in my career. He's of course

16:55

secure in his career. And so

16:57

to be on a date with

17:00

somebody in Los Angeles where the

17:02

focal point is not what do

17:04

you do was very very unique.

17:06

You know, our dates started with

17:08

like, so tell me... Like do

17:10

you have siblings? Like where are

17:12

you from? What is, let's start

17:14

from the beginning. And we actually

17:16

closed down the sushi restaurant. Like

17:18

we were there till closed and

17:20

we had such a lovely time

17:23

that he was like, hey, do

17:25

you want to go to the

17:27

bar next door and keep talking?

17:29

And I was like. Sure. So

17:31

we went to the bar next

17:33

door. So we went to the

17:35

bar next door. We closed that

17:37

down too. And he basically told

17:39

me he's like, I would love

17:41

to go on another date with

17:43

you. And to be told on

17:46

your first date, hey, let's do

17:48

this again. You're like, this is

17:50

unheard of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That

17:52

must have been really exciting. Like,

17:54

I have nailed this. Yeah. It

17:56

was, it's still something that I

17:58

think now when I look back

18:00

on it, I still, I have

18:02

this thought of like, what happened?

18:04

How did it change? so much

18:06

from like there to like getting

18:09

to this point. Because if you

18:11

had told me on that first

18:13

day, hey girl, guess what? I

18:15

would have been like, oh, this

18:17

guy? Of course not. Okay, well,

18:19

let's make our own way there.

18:21

But all right, did you, so

18:23

you guys go home alone, like

18:25

on the first date, but with

18:27

a promise to meet up again?

18:29

Yes, and again, I can't emphasize

18:31

enough like how polite and what

18:34

gentleman he was, you know, when

18:36

he walks me to my car

18:38

and he was before I got

18:40

in my car, he was like,

18:42

hey, is it okay if I

18:44

kiss you? And I was like

18:46

thinking of my head, did you

18:48

just ask me permission? That's so

18:50

sure, you know, but I think

18:52

even, I think even just asking

18:54

like, hey, is that okay, it

18:57

was just very considerate, you know,

18:59

and yeah, he was quite lovely.

19:01

in his car and I remember

19:03

driving home being like cool nice

19:05

nice did you put on it

19:07

like a triumphant song to listen

19:09

to on the way home I

19:11

did I'm so lame what you

19:13

listen to you know I don't

19:15

remember what it was but I

19:17

definitely like turned up whatever I

19:20

was listening up to time like

19:22

yeah let's go yeah you yell

19:24

out your window I'm in love

19:26

something like that was the best

19:28

first date ever Yeah, yeah, no,

19:30

that's great. So then you, you

19:32

know, were you guys back on

19:34

the text afterwards or like... He

19:36

would text me every day. It

19:38

didn't take long for him to

19:40

kind of become a part of

19:43

my routine. He would call me

19:45

randomly when he was in the

19:47

car and just be like, hey,

19:49

I want to talk. And I'm

19:51

like, OK, great, let's talk. And

19:53

it wasn't too long after our

19:55

second date that we started to

19:57

see each other every week. And

19:59

yeah. So it very quickly went.

20:01

from a first date that was

20:03

formal, a second date to basically

20:05

hanging out every week, and not

20:08

even necessarily on a date, but

20:10

just seeing each other every week.

20:12

I don't want to say that

20:14

we fell in love right away,

20:16

because it really wasn't that, but

20:18

I think there was this sense

20:20

of, I think you might be

20:22

my person, and I don't want

20:24

to jump ahead, but I think

20:26

you might be. and and there's

20:28

something very exciting when you think

20:31

you've found you know the one

20:33

absolutely yeah yeah I mean there's

20:35

no better feeling in the whole

20:37

world you know they're like the

20:39

yeah yeah falling head over hills

20:41

is a great time it's really

20:43

fun yeah it's very fun so

20:45

he wasn't he wasn't guarded at

20:47

all in those those initial like

20:49

couple of weeks he didn't sound

20:51

like he had a wall-up which

20:54

given that he's been in big

20:56

movies, that's kind of surprising. Oh,

20:58

he had a wall up when

21:00

it came to personal private details

21:02

regarding his career. So for example,

21:04

like on our first date, he

21:06

told me about, you know, the

21:08

first project that he had ever...

21:10

gotten he basically told me the

21:12

story of getting cast in the

21:14

grand Budapest Hotel without ever saying

21:17

the name of the movie so

21:19

for example he was like I

21:21

got cast in this film we

21:23

we filmed in Germany or sorry

21:25

wherever it was if we filmed

21:27

in Europe and it was really

21:29

cold and he told me his

21:31

experiences of working on grand Budapest

21:33

without explicitly saying it. And that

21:35

was a lot of the dialogue

21:37

between us when we first started

21:39

dating and talking. He never would

21:42

say the title of a project

21:44

that he did or anything like

21:46

that. It was always kind of

21:48

like implied. So he... He was

21:50

very careful to give me more

21:52

of that kind of information. Yeah,

21:54

he was very... He was very

21:56

guarded about that. And even though,

21:58

you know, like I said on

22:00

our first date, I knew what

22:02

film he was talking about, I

22:05

very much clocked, like, okay, he

22:07

does not want it to be

22:09

about the fact that he was

22:11

in this movie. And I'm perfectly

22:13

okay with that. So, you know,

22:15

I'm not dating you for that

22:17

reason. So we can approach your

22:19

career and your accolades, however you

22:21

want. Yes. But yeah, he was

22:23

guarded. I mean, I guess the

22:25

other thing I want to just

22:28

to just to just to just

22:30

to ask you to ask you

22:32

about you about. you're aware of

22:34

the sort of the social hierarchy

22:36

of the universe, which is that

22:38

Hollywood actors are at the top.

22:40

There are a listers, there are

22:42

b listers, you know, it is

22:44

stratified. Now, I will go out

22:46

on a limb and say that

22:48

maybe he was a bit higher

22:51

on this pecking order than you

22:53

were. Were you aware of this

22:55

kind of like social order and

22:57

each other's position on it? Did

22:59

this play into those early weeks?

23:02

100% yeah I very much knew

23:04

even with my security in my

23:06

own accomplishments I very much knew

23:09

that we came from you know

23:11

same industry but like different worlds

23:14

and you know obviously he has

23:16

worked on much bigger films than

23:18

I have. You know, my background

23:21

is more in the indie space.

23:23

He's been in Academy award-winning films

23:26

and massive franchises. You know, we

23:28

don't come from the same sector

23:30

of the industry. And it was

23:33

a, not, I don't want to

23:35

say it was a concern up

23:38

front, but it was something that

23:40

I was very open with him

23:42

about. I do remember early on

23:45

I had a conversation with him

23:47

and I asked him. You know,

23:50

is this an experiment to you?

23:52

Like, is being with a, quote,

23:54

normal person or non-famous person, is

23:57

this some... that you are experimenting

23:59

with like or do you genuinely

24:02

you know what is your intention

24:04

in this because your entire circle

24:06

is not my circle yeah that's

24:09

interesting and so yeah so I

24:11

did ask him what are you

24:14

saying I did ask him that

24:16

He said, oh God, he's so

24:18

charming. You have no idea how

24:21

charming this man is. You're still

24:23

charmed. I can see his charming

24:26

effect on you still playing up.

24:28

I know, it's so embarrassing. I'm

24:30

not ashamed to admit that. I'm

24:33

so not ashamed. But I remember

24:35

we were in his kitchen and

24:38

he said, no, I've never looked

24:40

at you as, you know, anything.

24:42

I think in... two years you're

24:45

gonna be bigger than me you

24:47

know he had said something to

24:50

that effect and I remember being

24:52

like oh this guy is so

24:54

good he's so good yeah yeah

24:57

tell me more about that Tony

24:59

tell me more about how I'm

25:02

two years like I've got two

25:04

years like a boy two years

25:06

yeah yeah no he um Tony

25:09

is very charming he's a very

25:11

funny he is smart in some

25:14

respects. And so, yeah, I think

25:16

the where sort of everything kind

25:18

of started to reveal itself in

25:21

this sort of dark turn that

25:23

this relationship inevitably did take was

25:26

words are very, very pretty, and

25:28

he maybe has the prettiest of

25:30

words, but I started to pick

25:33

up how things were not really.

25:35

what they were being presented as,

25:37

and that did become a problem

25:40

as more time went on. But

25:42

very early on, I did feel

25:45

like, especially when we were hanging

25:47

out too, when he eventually started

25:49

to meet, introduce me to his

25:52

friends, I felt very different. the

25:54

first times that you made his

25:57

friends, you know, set the scene,

25:59

what happened? Okay, so it was

26:01

a movie night. It was the

26:04

day before Tony asked me be

26:06

his girlfriend and I guess his

26:09

friends had been telling him like

26:11

you cannot ask this girl to

26:13

be your girlfriend until we meet

26:16

her first, you know, very classic

26:18

scenario. So he invited me over

26:21

to a movie night at his

26:23

house, which again, me being like

26:25

a synophile. I'm like, this is

26:28

great. Like what an environment to

26:30

meet everybody. So we go over.

26:33

I meet his older brother, his

26:35

closest friends come by, and everybody

26:37

is very lovely and charming, but

26:40

obviously from a different social status

26:42

than I am, you know, I

26:45

think I don't. I'm not talking

26:47

down on myself by recognizing where

26:49

I am in the hierarchy. It's

26:52

not a negative, it's just, it's

26:54

different. And so, like, for example,

26:57

do you know when you're, like,

26:59

out with friends and if you're

27:01

going to order postmates, and maybe

27:04

this isn't so crazy, but to

27:06

me, this was crazy. It's like,

27:09

you pick one place and everybody

27:11

orders from the same restaurant. Everybody

27:13

that night, they all ordered like

27:16

postmates from their own restaurants that

27:18

they wanted to eat at and

27:21

we're talking about like sugar fish

27:23

and like these really expensive spots

27:25

that like people and I remember

27:28

thinking like this is crazy. Like

27:30

from all different parts of the

27:33

city. from all different parts of

27:35

the city, like there was no

27:37

thought of like, oh yeah, let's

27:40

all order from one place because

27:42

that's like the most cost-effective thing

27:45

to do. It was like, no,

27:47

no, I'm gonna spend $60 on

27:49

my meal because I wanna eat

27:52

here and I'm gonna, and I

27:54

just thought that was so wild.

27:57

Wow, what a sort of isolationist

27:59

non-communal way of living as well.

28:01

I don't quite know why, but

28:04

that feels a little asshole to

28:06

me. Yes, and I remember thinking,

28:08

like, okay, that's different, but you

28:11

know, again, that's their world, that's

28:13

not my world. But I'll say,

28:16

like, this particular night was a

28:18

very important, precedent was set this

28:20

night. So obviously the postmates thing,

28:23

you can take that however you

28:25

want. But I remember we all

28:28

sat down, we watched the movie,

28:30

and just like, you know, Tony,

28:32

some of his friends who were

28:35

in that room were models, other

28:37

actors who have been in massive

28:40

franchises, you know, multi-million-dollar films, but,

28:42

you know, we sat down, we

28:44

watched this movie, and we get

28:47

to the end of the movie,

28:49

and Tony's house. He has a

28:52

giant projector, right? So it's like

28:54

we're projecting the movie on the

28:56

wall, the movie ends, and all

28:59

of a sudden, Tony starts playing

29:01

my very first music video. And

29:04

my very first music video I

29:06

made with, you know, I'm an

29:08

independent musician and filmmaker. My very

29:11

first music video, it's called Hyde,

29:13

it's on YouTube, you can see

29:16

that it is... a low-budget music

29:18

video. I made it with my

29:20

film friends for not a lot

29:23

of money at all and you

29:25

know you can tell it's very

29:28

low-fi. Also what's your first? It

29:30

was the first. It's the first

29:32

one. You were experimenting and learning.

29:35

Yes and first also song that

29:37

I ever released and he starts

29:40

playing it on his projector and

29:42

all of his friends are like

29:44

what is this? And then they're

29:47

like oh! That's you! And I

29:49

remember like my face just started

29:52

to get like redder and redder

29:54

and redder and I tried to

29:56

get up like I was like

29:59

I actually don't want to be

30:01

in the room. I'm like, I'm

30:04

going to go, like I wanted

30:06

to like just like go in

30:08

the bathroom. And Tony physically held

30:11

me on the couch. Like he

30:13

would not let me get up

30:16

and like made me sit and

30:18

just like sit through this incredibly

30:20

embarrassing situation. Like I honestly truly

30:23

felt like I was being hazed.

30:25

I could see his friends, like

30:28

once they realized that it was

30:30

me, they were like very gracious

30:32

in sort of being like, oh,

30:35

like, yeah, that song was actually

30:37

like, catchy. And like, oh, that

30:40

was good. But remember, you're talking

30:42

about a room of people who

30:44

are used to being on, you

30:47

know, $80 million film sets, 50

30:49

million dollar film sets, like massive,

30:51

massive production. And then you're having

30:54

them watch my little baby thing.

30:56

They know that I'm also like

30:59

an indie filmmaker as well. And

31:01

like, that was a very, very

31:03

bizarre, almost like visual representation of

31:06

like, I'm here, you're there. And

31:08

I remember when it was done,

31:11

like Tony turned to me and

31:13

he was like, oh. Was that?

31:15

Not okay for me to do

31:18

that Hmm, and I and I

31:20

remember being like I Guess it's

31:23

fine, you know, like it was

31:25

a very very bizarre Did he

31:27

did he seem to think it

31:30

was a joke or was he

31:32

like what was his mood as

31:35

this was going down? I think

31:37

that he was kind of making

31:39

fun of my project in front

31:42

of everybody and I think he

31:44

wasn't like explicitly making fun of

31:47

it but I think when you

31:49

all of a sudden like basically

31:51

put the that you're dating on

31:54

blast in front of everybody. You

31:56

know, it's very, when you're a

31:59

musician or an actress or an

32:01

indie, you know, filmmaker in any

32:03

capacity. You kind of, you don't

32:06

like show people, your music unprompted.

32:08

You don't show somebody your film

32:11

unprompted. It's not a good look.

32:13

And so to force everybody to

32:15

watch my song and then in

32:18

my video and to have an

32:20

opinion about it is like uncomfortable

32:23

for everybody here. Like because everybody

32:25

has to be sort of put

32:27

in this like forced politeness. And

32:30

my face was so red. I

32:32

mean, if you're physically holding somebody

32:35

down on the couch and making

32:37

them watch something, surely you know

32:39

that this is like not an

32:42

okay thing. This is not working.

32:44

This is not what you need.

32:47

The other people in the room,

32:49

were they kind of like, oh,

32:51

hey, Tony, let it go, like,

32:54

were they sort of chuckling nervously

32:56

or were they, like, what was

32:59

the reception? At the

33:01

start of it, it was like

33:03

everybody was kind of getting ready

33:05

to like make fun of it.

33:07

And then when they noticed that

33:09

it was me, they were like,

33:11

oh, this is so great. And

33:13

like, oh, that song's really catchy

33:16

or whatever. Like they really did

33:18

try to recover, but I could

33:20

tell everybody was kind of uncomfortable

33:22

by it. It felt very like

33:24

frat, you know, fraternity kind of

33:26

like hazing sort of environment. And

33:28

of course my only response, like

33:30

I just met everybody in this

33:32

room. I'm trying to make a

33:35

good impression as like, you know,

33:37

I want Tony to ask me

33:39

to be his girlfriend. We had

33:41

been dating for a good amount

33:43

of time at this point. And

33:45

yeah, it was very much like,

33:47

that was a bit odd. I

33:49

don't know, you know, it was

33:51

a very strange, strange environment. Yeah,

33:54

yeah. So did you leave that

33:56

night or did you just stick

33:58

around? Help

42:14

Online Therapy bought this

42:17

30-second ad to remind

42:19

you right now, wherever

42:22

you are, to unclench

42:24

your jaw. Relax your

42:27

shoulders. Take a deep

42:29

breath in and out.

42:32

Feels better, right? That's

42:34

15 seconds of self-care.

42:37

Imagine what you could

42:39

do with more. Visit

42:42

better help. Imagine what you could do with more. Visit better help.com/random podcast

42:45

for 10% off your

42:47

first month of therapy.

42:49

No pressure, just help.

42:51

But for now, just

42:53

relax. Hey

42:56

Prime members, are you tired of

42:58

ads interfering with your favorite podcasts?

43:00

Good news. With Amazon Music, you

43:02

have access to the largest catalog

43:04

of ad-free top podcasts, included with

43:06

your prime membership. To To start listening,

43:08

download the Amazon start listening, download the Amazon Music app for free.

43:09

music app for free.

43:12

Or go to amazon.com/ad-free

43:14

podcasts. That's amazon.com/ad-free podcasts

43:16

to catch up on

43:18

the latest episodes without

43:21

the ads. Worry about what

43:23

ingredients are hiding in your groceries. Let

43:25

us take the guest work out. We're

43:27

Thrive Market, the online grocery store with

43:30

the highest quality standards in the industry.

43:32

We restrict 1,000 plus ingredients. So you

43:34

can trust that you'll only find the

43:37

best high quality organic and sustainable brands

43:39

all free of the junk. With savings

43:41

up to 30% off and fast carbon

43:43

neutral shipping, you get top trusted groceries

43:46

at your door. And you can stop

43:48

worrying about what your kids get their

43:50

hands on. free gift. I

44:30

understand he did invite you to

44:33

a red carpet event. Can you

44:35

tell me what happened? Yeah, so

44:37

we actually went to two events.

44:39

The first one was earlier on

44:42

in our career. Oh my gosh,

44:44

earlier on in our dating experience.

44:46

It really was kind of like

44:48

a job. So maybe that's a

44:50

good description. But the first event

44:53

that we had gone to was

44:55

a movie premiere for one of

44:57

his friends. there was a massive

44:59

red carpet, it was a very

45:02

big movie premiere, and the other

45:04

girls that were there, like the

45:06

other, his other, it was a

45:08

group of us, and so his

45:11

friends, girlfriends, like they wanted to

45:13

walk the red carpet, and I

45:15

remember Tony looked at me and

45:17

he was like, Do you want

45:20

to do the red carpet? And

45:22

I was like, no, no, it's

45:24

okay. Because I could tell at

45:26

that point in our relationship, he

45:29

was not fully comfortable with this

45:31

idea of it being a publicly

45:33

known thing. And so I was

45:35

like, no. And walking a red

45:38

carpet would have meant there were

45:40

photographers. It would have been basically

45:42

like a public announcement that Tony

45:44

was dating you. Yes, this was

45:47

a very big movie premiere. A

45:49

lot of like bigger stars were

45:51

in this film. And so, you

45:53

know, I think the one thing

45:55

that people don't realize is that

45:58

like if you walk the red

46:00

carpet as a couple, like obviously

46:02

if they are relevant to the

46:04

project, like it's gonna end up

46:07

on. line. Tony has never had

46:09

a public girlfriend. He's been very

46:11

careful and curated in making sure

46:13

that nobody knows anything about his

46:16

dating history. And so I was

46:18

with him not for any kind

46:20

of public reason. And so in

46:22

that first moment, I was like,

46:25

no, I know you're not comfortable

46:27

with it. I'm not going to

46:29

make you do that, do this

46:31

thing. In hindsight, should I have

46:34

done it? Probably. I probably shouldn't

46:36

have been so passive with only

46:38

supporting his needs, but at the

46:40

time, I didn't care about a

46:43

red carpet photo. And honestly, at

46:45

that particular event, because I was

46:47

with a group of his friends

46:49

who are very wealthy and very

46:52

gorgeous, I was like, yeah. I

46:54

don't know if I want to

46:56

hook the red carpet with them,

46:58

you know? Not for any reason

47:00

other than like, you just look

47:03

a little different. Okay, sure, sure.

47:05

And I was like, I'm okay,

47:07

I don't know if I'm ready

47:09

for that sort of perception. Okay,

47:12

so the second event that we

47:14

went to was not a big

47:16

movie premiere. It was an Oscar's

47:18

party that had a red carpet.

47:21

I was his plus one. I

47:23

had asked him, hey, what is

47:25

the dress code for this event?

47:27

Like, what's going on? He's like,

47:30

oh, I'll get the details. I'll

47:32

get the details. He forwarded me

47:34

the details and then began the

47:36

most stressful two weeks of my

47:39

life trying to find a dress

47:41

for this event. Because what a

47:43

lot of people don't know. These

47:45

red carpet events and Oscar parties

47:48

and things like that, people hire

47:50

stylists to dress them and a

47:52

stylist rate like starts at a

47:54

thousand dollars a day for them

47:57

to go shop and pull clothes

47:59

for you and then that doesn't

48:01

include the rentals and I'm like

48:03

oh my gosh I'm like I

48:05

do not have the money for

48:08

that so I'm going to department

48:10

stores I'm shopping online and buying

48:12

all of these different dresses and

48:14

like going to try them on

48:17

and then return them and narrow

48:19

it down. I mean it was

48:21

like absolutely so stressful as a

48:23

regular citizen trying to like prep

48:26

for something like this and you

48:28

know I finally found like two

48:30

dresses that didn't make me feel

48:32

so self-conscious and I had sent

48:35

them to him. because I didn't

48:37

want to embarrass myself, but also

48:39

I didn't want to embarrass him.

48:41

You know, being somebody's girlfriend that's

48:44

in the public eye that's never

48:46

had one before, there is a

48:48

pressure to that. You know, there

48:50

is like a, all of his

48:53

friends, their girlfriends are either models

48:55

or famous actors. So imagine... You're

48:57

the girl, you're also a girlfriend

48:59

in that group and you're not

49:02

a famous model and you're not

49:04

a famous actor. It's a very

49:06

different kind of pressure. Absolutely. Did

49:08

he like the dresses that you

49:10

chose when you when you sent

49:13

a photo? Yes. Yeah, he was,

49:15

I mean, Tony picked my outfit

49:17

for the first red carpet event

49:19

that we went to. And so,

49:22

yeah, for the second one, he

49:24

did as well. And I, honestly,

49:26

again, such a charming person, I

49:28

don't think he would have told

49:31

me, like, you don't look good.

49:33

You know, I don't think at

49:35

that point he would have said,

49:37

like, Oh, both of these dresses

49:40

are ugly. So he was kind

49:42

and he picked, you know, he

49:44

said that dress worked and I

49:46

said great. And yeah, that was

49:49

that. And I, because of my

49:51

film background, I do have friends

49:53

who do like hair and makeup

49:55

and stuff so I had like

49:58

called in a favor I'd ask

50:00

my friend Alex she does all

50:02

of my hair and makeup for

50:04

like my music videos and all

50:07

the stuff I was like Alex

50:09

can you do my hair and

50:11

makeup for this man like so

50:13

yeah so she was very gracious

50:15

and like drove to my house

50:18

and did my hair and makeup

50:20

for me um We didn't carpool

50:22

to the event so I took

50:24

an Uber myself and I actually

50:27

remember like I had the Uber

50:29

kind of like drop me off

50:31

a little bit and then I

50:33

walked. I was like can you

50:35

just send me over there? This

50:37

is like high school. They're like

50:39

I don't want anyone to see

50:41

my parents. It was very much like

50:44

can you just like have me go

50:46

over there? And he took a black

50:48

car though. I know he got dropped

50:51

off in a black car. Okay, so

50:53

you get to the Oscars

50:55

red carpet, the Oscars party

50:57

red carpet. What happens? And

50:59

so then we went to the

51:02

party, which was on a movie

51:04

lot. And so. Go to the

51:07

movie lot and it's like very

51:09

high security. There are massive names

51:11

there. I saw, you know, for

51:14

example, Jordan Peel and, you know,

51:16

Zoe Deshenel and a bunch of

51:19

people from the office and, you

51:21

know, big names. There were very

51:23

big names there. And, you know,

51:26

we arrive as couples do, but

51:28

I remember thinking like, okay,

51:30

now at this point in

51:33

our relationship. Is he going

51:35

to feel comfortable taking a

51:37

photo with me and sort of

51:40

like being like this is my

51:42

girlfriend or are you finally going

51:44

to be proud of who is

51:46

next to you? And that was

51:49

the subtext of what I was

51:51

searching for and that was really

51:53

important to me because of all

51:55

the everything that was you know

51:58

I think on like a she

52:00

human level nobody wants

52:02

to be a secret girlfriend

52:04

no no no of course and even

52:06

more so than that again the

52:08

precedent of like I'm an indie

52:10

person he is not he gets

52:12

bored easily I do not you

52:14

know this was like a very

52:16

big moment of like okay are

52:18

we past all of that and

52:20

so I remember, like, we get

52:23

up to go take our photo

52:25

as, like, everybody does. It's sort

52:27

of more of in this setting,

52:29

like, a campy souvenir thing versus

52:31

the first one, which was, like,

52:34

a big movie premiere. And so

52:36

we get up, and I kind

52:38

of, like, look at him, and

52:40

he looks at me, and I

52:42

could tell he was uncomfortable, and

52:45

that's when the whole, uh, I

52:47

need to take a photo by myself,

52:49

for my stylus. Is that what he

52:51

said? Yeah, that's what he said

52:54

to me. And I was like, okay,

52:56

sure. Obviously stylists

52:58

need photos for their

53:00

portfolio and that's completely

53:03

fine and totally valid.

53:05

What was happening behind

53:07

those words was like,

53:10

I'm still not comfortable

53:12

with you yet. and I remember

53:15

just thinking like how how are

53:17

we still not there at this

53:19

point how many months in

53:21

are you like a five or six

53:23

months five or six months

53:25

he still is one of

53:28

your public with with you

53:30

as his girlfriend yeah and

53:32

I think again you know I

53:34

can't emphasize enough that like

53:36

Tony Revolori's reputation does not

53:38

get diminished because he has

53:41

a girlfriend. He does not

53:43

have, he's not, he's not

53:45

a K-pop star or Harry

53:47

Styles or Joe Jonas where

53:50

if they have, you know,

53:52

public relationships, the fan club

53:54

goes crazy. Like, I don't

53:56

think that there would have

53:59

been any negative... feedback from

54:01

people knowing that Tony

54:03

was dating an indie

54:05

filmmaker and musician? Like

54:08

that's not an embarrassing

54:10

name? Would have been

54:12

completely normal and completely

54:14

fine. And you know I

54:16

guess that was sort of

54:19

one of those things where

54:21

you just kind of go

54:23

like, man, like even in this

54:25

setting? Like even now? Like even

54:27

now? So did you get to

54:29

the, so yeah, so did you get

54:32

to the party feeling kind of

54:34

bummed out? No, I, I just, I

54:36

think my optimism sort

54:38

of like kicked back in and

54:40

I think because, you know, Tony

54:43

and I had built all of

54:45

these like plans together, we had

54:47

talked so much about the future

54:49

and all of these things we

54:51

were going to do, that in

54:54

my mind, I sort of thought,

54:56

okay, well, we have time. You

54:58

know, surely we're not breaking

55:00

up any time soon. There's

55:02

nothing to indicate that that's

55:04

happening. And even though I

55:06

was just not disappointed, but

55:08

like, oh, okay, I guess

55:10

this isn't the moment yet,

55:12

I didn't think that there

55:14

wasn't going to be another

55:16

moment. And so it was still

55:18

like, okay, you know, I'm with

55:21

my boyfriend and I'm also here

55:23

to, you know, let him do

55:25

his networking thing and I'm going

55:28

to be supportive and like I

55:30

said, play that spectator role and

55:32

I was very much okay with

55:34

it because I super admired his

55:37

ability and his career and you

55:39

know, I think that's like what

55:41

you should do as a partner

55:43

is be supportive and in certain

55:45

settings that's just the role that

55:47

you play. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean

55:49

that that to me sounds like a

55:52

bit of a game changer, but then

55:54

I understand that there was another another

55:56

event that happened not long after the

55:59

Oscar event that really gave you

56:01

a reason to reason to doubt

56:03

your future together. Can you walk

56:05

me through it? Oh man, yes.

56:07

So he took me on a

56:10

date to his favorite restaurant, which

56:12

was a very big deal, and

56:14

I remember at that point in

56:16

our relationship, you know, we've gone

56:18

through all of these different things.

56:21

All right, I think it's time

56:23

to... open up in a more

56:25

romantic way as one dies. We're on

56:27

a date. I feel like you should.

56:29

And so I should have never said

56:32

this in hindsight, but I told him

56:34

I was like, I know we haven't

56:36

known each other for a long

56:38

time. You know, we're meeting in

56:41

our later 20s and you've lived

56:43

so much life and I've lived

56:45

so much life, you know, with

56:48

our careers and everything, but I'm

56:50

really enjoying. Our relationship, like

56:52

I just feel like

56:55

I have this connection

56:58

with you. And he looks

57:00

at me and he goes,

57:03

sorry it's just so

57:05

stupid. He looks at

57:08

me and he goes, oh

57:10

I get that all the

57:12

time. He's like... You're

57:14

just saying that because

57:17

you grew up watching

57:19

me. And so you

57:22

subconsciously have this idea

57:24

that you have this

57:26

connection with me because

57:29

you're used to seeing

57:31

me on TV. And I

57:34

remember thinking like,

57:36

what? What? Excuse me?

57:39

What a big statement.

57:41

that completely overlooks your

57:44

needs. Gosh, like, that is the

57:46

most bad shit thing I have

57:49

ever heard. Yeah. I'm like,

57:51

forget about the fact that

57:53

I'm your girlfriend and I'm

57:55

saying that like, hey, I

57:58

think there's something key. Do

58:00

you feel it too? You immediately

58:02

go to. Yeah, well, you know,

58:04

that's just what happens when you're

58:07

a fan. It's like, you're telling

58:09

me. Oh, God damn it. That's

58:11

so annoying. Also, you know, I

58:13

gotta point out, Tony is not

58:16

the most famous guy in the

58:18

whole world. He's not Tom Cruise.

58:20

It's not like you grew up

58:22

watching him. Like, he's been in

58:25

a couple of movies that we've

58:27

all seen, but it's not like...

58:29

It's not like he's one of

58:31

these big faces that is sort

58:34

of a corporation onto its own.

58:36

He's a guy who's been in

58:38

a few movies. Yeah, and you

58:40

know, we're very similar in age.

58:43

It's like, Tony, how the hell

58:45

would I have grown up watching

58:47

you? How is that even possible?

58:49

Like, that doesn't even make sense.

58:51

I'm like, just... like I'm like

58:54

it's actually physically impossible for me

58:56

to have grown up watching you.

58:58

That's wild. So I mean like

59:00

what sort of effect did that

59:03

have on your on your dinner

59:05

together? Oh man I called him

59:07

out on it I was like

59:09

because that night he had also

59:12

made a comment that was so

59:14

very strange which was he said

59:16

to me I know

59:18

you like me more than

59:20

I like you. Flattering. Yes,

59:23

and I told him I

59:25

was like, how would I

59:27

know how much you like

59:29

me? You've never said I

59:31

love you or I like

59:33

you this much. I'm like,

59:35

how does that even make

59:38

sense? And he was like,

59:40

oh, yeah, I guess you're

59:42

right. So I do take

59:44

that back. And I'm like,

59:46

is your head at? You

59:48

know, and I think like

59:50

this is where the world

59:52

just gets so blurred. You

59:55

know, I used... to tell

59:57

my mom and my friends,

59:59

I wish he wasn't famous

1:00:01

because I just like him,

1:00:03

but the fame thing makes

1:00:05

certain things weird. So weird.

1:00:07

And this was one of

1:00:10

those situations where like a

1:00:12

totally normal cheesy comment from

1:00:14

me should have just been

1:00:16

met with like a, oh

1:00:18

baby, I feel the same

1:00:20

way. Um, you know, Tony

1:00:22

told me that like he

1:00:25

didn't, like it would take

1:00:27

him a long time to

1:00:29

even use pet names. So

1:00:31

I mean, I'm dealing with

1:00:33

somebody where like I'm just

1:00:35

trying to like gauge. How

1:00:37

much do you even actually

1:00:40

care about me on a

1:00:42

dinner day? And that's the

1:00:44

response. You're like, oh my

1:00:46

goodness, we are just in

1:00:48

very different planes. Fame makes

1:00:50

people's brains so weird. Like

1:00:52

Tony in a parallel universe

1:00:54

is probably like just a

1:00:57

really lovely guy. But Tony

1:00:59

who's a celebrity in LA,

1:01:01

his brain just is a

1:01:03

bit cooked. You know, I've

1:01:05

thought so much about this

1:01:07

because I've obviously during our

1:01:09

relationship I tried to be

1:01:12

very empathetic and really understanding

1:01:14

of how you know, we

1:01:16

come from two different upbringings.

1:01:18

And I do recognize, and

1:01:20

I did, and I think

1:01:22

I used this as a

1:01:24

justification for certain behaviors that

1:01:27

were actually red flags. But,

1:01:29

you know, Tony became famous

1:01:31

at a very young age,

1:01:33

you know, midteens, 14 or

1:01:35

15 or whatever. all of

1:01:37

a sudden you're going to

1:01:39

parties with massive a-listers and

1:01:41

that is now the world

1:01:44

that you are growing up

1:01:46

with so your formative teenage

1:01:48

into early adulthood adulthood years

1:01:50

are through that And so

1:01:52

it's like, yes, he's not

1:01:54

A-list, but that became his

1:01:56

world very young. Yeah, that's

1:01:59

interesting. Yeah, yeah. You know,

1:02:01

like, of course that would

1:02:03

influence everything. You know, if

1:02:05

you're at parties with A-listers

1:02:07

and that's the behavior that

1:02:09

you're seeing, then of course

1:02:11

you're going to adapt that

1:02:14

same behavior. Yes. And I

1:02:16

think that's where a lot

1:02:18

of the weirdness came from,

1:02:20

and I really tried to

1:02:22

like... work through it and

1:02:24

understand it and but but

1:02:26

I also don't know he's

1:02:28

as aware of that as

1:02:31

I am being like an

1:02:33

outsider versus that being his

1:02:35

experience as like his human

1:02:37

experience yes yeah I think

1:02:39

I'd agree I think just

1:02:41

by virtue of you being

1:02:43

more invested in the relationship

1:02:46

you've thought about it whereas

1:02:48

he's been like she wasn't

1:02:50

picking up what I was

1:02:52

putting down and you know

1:02:54

like I didn't need to

1:02:56

think about this Right, right,

1:02:58

because you know he did

1:03:01

set that precedent very early

1:03:03

on in our relationship that

1:03:05

he was in more important

1:03:07

or had celebrity. You know

1:03:09

I remember one time he

1:03:11

got kind of drunk and

1:03:13

he was drunk texting me

1:03:16

and this was before I

1:03:18

was his girlfriend and he

1:03:20

was like Yeah, and he

1:03:22

was like, I'm very nervous

1:03:24

asking you this. He's like,

1:03:26

but I drank a little,

1:03:28

so I feel comfortable. He's

1:03:30

like, and he told me,

1:03:33

what movies have you seen

1:03:35

me in? Like, what movies

1:03:37

did you know? I love

1:03:39

this. I love this. What

1:03:41

did you say? So he

1:03:43

said to me. He was

1:03:45

like, what movies did you

1:03:48

know I was in before

1:03:50

you matched with me on

1:03:52

Raya? And he said something

1:03:54

to the effect of, like,

1:03:56

how about I guess? And

1:03:58

I was like, oh. No,

1:04:00

I said, I said, I

1:04:03

knew you from three different

1:04:05

movies. And he said, how

1:04:07

about I guess? And I

1:04:09

said, sure. And he was

1:04:11

like, Grandbud Past Hotel, because

1:04:13

of course, you're, you know,

1:04:15

a film director and you

1:04:17

went to film school. Spider-man,

1:04:20

because you're nerdy, and everybody's

1:04:22

seen Spider-man. And then the

1:04:24

third one was dope. He's

1:04:26

like, I bet you've seen

1:04:28

dope. Okay, these feel like

1:04:30

pretty solid guesses to me.

1:04:32

They were very solid guesses.

1:04:35

The man is aware of

1:04:37

what people know him from.

1:04:39

Acutely aware. So he was

1:04:41

correct. Did he ever just

1:04:43

sit you down and read

1:04:45

you the right act? Or

1:04:47

did he like someone, one

1:04:50

of his friends or just

1:04:52

be like, hey, all right,

1:04:54

so let's make this visual,

1:04:56

you're about to date me,

1:04:58

a mid-tier celebrity. You

1:05:01

want to know it's so

1:05:03

unfortunate for him? It's very

1:05:05

early on. I asked him.

1:05:07

I was like, do you

1:05:09

want me to sign an

1:05:11

NDA? I was like, oh,

1:05:13

that's why you're talking to

1:05:15

me right now. And I

1:05:17

said, like, do you want

1:05:19

me to? Like, I'll do it.

1:05:21

I'll sign one. And he

1:05:23

said, no, no. No. No,

1:05:25

babe. It's all cool. But you

1:05:27

better believe. You

1:05:30

better believe the next girl that

1:05:32

he dated. Oh, yeah. She everybody's

1:05:34

signing her days now. First date,

1:05:37

NDA. Yeah. But I did ask,

1:05:39

so that's his karma. Okay, all

1:05:41

right. But there was never any

1:05:44

sort of like on-boarding process for,

1:05:46

you know, like, welcome to the

1:05:48

Hollywood lifestyle. Here's what you need

1:05:51

to know. Oh no, there was

1:05:53

never any. like initiation in that

1:05:55

way that was formal. I think

1:05:58

it was more just like these

1:06:00

subtleties, right? Like the, you know,

1:06:02

the music video part, you know,

1:06:05

at the movie night or him

1:06:07

telling me about his two phones

1:06:09

or, you know, what else? The

1:06:12

movie thing, what movies have you

1:06:14

seen me in? Like, it was

1:06:17

more... like subtleties throughout versus here

1:06:19

is a bulleted list of like

1:06:21

how to behave and act. Yeah,

1:06:24

yeah. I'm guessing, right, so Notting

1:06:26

Hill, right? Notting Hill is a

1:06:28

is a fictional depiction of what

1:06:31

you went through in real life.

1:06:33

Did you guys ever watch Notting

1:06:35

Hill together or joke about it,

1:06:38

refer to it? Never. Not even

1:06:40

one. That's funny. I think I

1:06:42

would have been, I think I'd

1:06:45

have, I don't know, just put

1:06:47

it on one night, be like,

1:06:49

you want to watch this? It's

1:06:52

my favorite movie, just to see

1:06:54

what happens. Oh gosh, I mean,

1:06:56

if you had hung out with

1:06:59

me more than once a week,

1:07:01

you know, perhaps it could have

1:07:03

happened. But it feels as though,

1:07:06

over the last couple of beats,

1:07:08

there's been, there's been a couple

1:07:11

of negative experiences. And I'm curious

1:07:13

how it came to an it

1:07:15

came to an end. Oh

1:07:18

gosh. Yeah, phew, man. It's

1:07:20

so tough because, you know,

1:07:22

even though we only saw

1:07:24

each other once a week

1:07:26

in person, we talked to

1:07:29

each other every single day.

1:07:31

I mean, we were very,

1:07:33

very much integrated into each

1:07:35

other's... into each other's lives,

1:07:37

into each other's routines, you

1:07:39

know, good morning text and,

1:07:41

you know, conversating all throughout

1:07:43

the day and sending memes

1:07:46

and good night text and

1:07:48

random calls stuck in traffic,

1:07:50

you know, like this was

1:07:52

somebody that I talked to

1:07:54

every single day and there

1:07:56

was no indication before our

1:07:58

breakup. we were breaking up

1:08:00

but but the breakup was

1:08:03

horrific all right tell me

1:08:05

about it was really bad

1:08:07

either on April 18th or

1:08:09

April 19th roughly Tony and

1:08:11

I go out to dinner

1:08:13

I show up late and

1:08:15

I'm like, oh my gosh,

1:08:17

I'm so sorry, I'm so

1:08:19

late. And he's so, it's

1:08:22

fine, it's no big deal.

1:08:24

We hug and it's like,

1:08:26

you know, whatever lovely, we

1:08:28

sit down to eat and

1:08:30

we're having a very nice

1:08:32

dinner and conversation and out

1:08:34

of nowhere, he turns to

1:08:36

me and he says, what

1:08:39

do you think about our

1:08:41

sex life? And I go,

1:08:43

And I sort of giggle.

1:08:45

I'm like, well, we don't

1:08:47

see each other enough. You

1:08:49

know, we only see each

1:08:51

other once a week, and

1:08:53

sometimes it's an event. you

1:08:56

know, I told him I

1:08:58

was like, I think we

1:09:00

have really great, obviously conversational

1:09:02

chemistry, we get along super

1:09:04

well, we have all of

1:09:06

these very similar interests, we're

1:09:08

great in that regard. I

1:09:10

was like, and in regards

1:09:12

to intimacy, like in order

1:09:15

to build intimacy, like you

1:09:17

have to see each other

1:09:19

more. And I think an

1:09:21

important thing to note is

1:09:23

like Tony never let me

1:09:25

sleep over. You know, so

1:09:27

we had never even like

1:09:29

sponged the night together in

1:09:32

that way and so I

1:09:34

had told him like Yeah,

1:09:36

just we just have to

1:09:38

see each other more. Well,

1:09:40

well, um, so I just

1:09:42

want to clarify a few

1:09:44

things and I'm you know,

1:09:46

I can feel my awkwardness

1:09:48

here, but you know, sex

1:09:51

is part of relationships. So

1:09:53

I feel like I should

1:09:55

ask so you had had

1:09:57

sex by this point despite

1:09:59

little speech about celibacy and

1:10:01

you know all get bored

1:10:03

of you right was like

1:10:05

sleeping with Tony comfortable was

1:10:08

it always did it always

1:10:10

feel like this big event

1:10:12

or this highly curated sort

1:10:14

of experience that he was

1:10:16

gifting you no it certainly

1:10:18

wasn't like performative or anything

1:10:20

I think honestly it just

1:10:22

wasn't frequent you know it

1:10:25

was it was a very

1:10:27

very strange I guess imagine

1:10:29

your partner sets the precedent

1:10:31

very early on that they

1:10:33

don't want you to initiate.

1:10:35

But then later that becomes

1:10:37

a problem. And so that's

1:10:39

why I think when the

1:10:41

question came up, it was

1:10:44

like, well, this is very

1:10:46

fixable. Like, it's like, if

1:10:48

you're giving me permission, great,

1:10:50

you know, and not to

1:10:52

be like crude or vulgar.

1:10:54

But my thought would be

1:10:56

that any man would be

1:10:58

excited by that. Yeah. Yep.

1:11:01

Like, I was like, great.

1:11:03

Perfect. This is fixable. This

1:11:05

is easily fixable. Yeah. There

1:11:07

is a precedent for this.

1:11:09

Men generally go for sex.

1:11:11

That's true. Yeah. And so

1:11:13

I was like, I agreed

1:11:15

with him. I was like,

1:11:18

this is an area that

1:11:20

we absolutely can work on.

1:11:22

And it's very simple. We

1:11:24

just have to see each

1:11:26

other more because you can't

1:11:28

work on that if you

1:11:30

don't see each other. What

1:11:32

was his response? Was he

1:11:34

kind of like, oh, I

1:11:37

hadn't thought of it like

1:11:39

that? You know, like, no.

1:11:41

It was very like stoic.

1:11:43

The energy shifted like tremendously.

1:11:45

It went from being like

1:11:47

light-hearted fun dinner per usual

1:11:49

how we hang out to

1:11:51

like, oh this is like,

1:11:54

this is serious, this is

1:11:56

like a very serious thing.

1:11:58

And I remember, like again,

1:12:00

that night would have been

1:12:02

a great night to be

1:12:04

like, perhaps we should go

1:12:06

home together. But instead, like,

1:12:08

I went home and he

1:12:11

went home. I'll just be

1:12:13

blunt, whatever. I was like,

1:12:15

I just was like, okay,

1:12:17

like when he walked me

1:12:19

into my car, I just

1:12:21

like started. making out with

1:12:23

my boyfriend because I was

1:12:25

like that's why not yeah

1:12:27

and he like very much

1:12:30

was like not super receptive

1:12:32

to it and I was

1:12:34

like this is really freaking

1:12:36

weird like this is very

1:12:38

strange I feel very strange

1:12:40

right now this is Not

1:12:42

good. I was like, whatever

1:12:44

just happened, whatever switch just

1:12:47

got flipped, I was like,

1:12:49

we are, the Titanic is

1:12:51

sinking. I'm like, this is,

1:12:53

my girl intuition brain was

1:12:55

like, uh-oh, this is a

1:12:57

problem. I wake up the

1:12:59

next morning and I'm supposed

1:13:01

to go to his house.

1:13:04

I'm supposed to drive to

1:13:06

his house. Okay. And he

1:13:08

text me and he says,

1:13:10

I'm going to drive to

1:13:12

you. And I go, oh

1:13:14

my God, I was like,

1:13:16

I'm getting broken up with.

1:13:18

Yes, shit. Here we go.

1:13:20

Driving to me, I'm not

1:13:23

going there. This is it.

1:13:25

And I just like start

1:13:27

to sink because keep in

1:13:29

mind, his birthday party is

1:13:31

in three days. I'm supposed

1:13:33

to meet his mom. that

1:13:35

Sunday. You know, like I'm

1:13:37

supposed to meet his mom,

1:13:40

his birthday is coming up.

1:13:42

It feels a bit strategic,

1:13:44

doesn't it? He's like, he's

1:13:46

like calling it quits before

1:13:48

the birthday. 100%. So he

1:13:50

drives to my apartment and

1:13:52

I can just tell, like,

1:13:54

you feel the energy. And

1:13:57

he tries to get me.

1:13:59

He's like, do you want

1:14:01

to go eat? Should we

1:14:03

go eat? And I was

1:14:05

like, no. obviously not hungry

1:14:07

i don't want to go

1:14:09

get like a sandwich with

1:14:11

you yeah when i told

1:14:13

him i was like just

1:14:16

i was like just say

1:14:18

it because i know what's

1:14:20

happening and i was like

1:14:22

so just say it like

1:14:24

don't like you've already driven

1:14:26

to my house and you're

1:14:28

doing this thing that has

1:14:30

no i have no like

1:14:33

they're we've never even fought

1:14:35

like where you know and

1:14:37

he sits down and he

1:14:39

says to me Such an

1:14:41

awful thing to tell anybody.

1:14:43

He says, I think you

1:14:45

are sexually unattractive. And because

1:14:47

my brain has decided that

1:14:50

you are sexually unattractive, I

1:14:52

cannot get over that. Oh

1:14:54

my God. So I am

1:14:56

not attracted to you in

1:14:58

that way. Which as a

1:15:00

woman is like probably one

1:15:02

of the meanest things to

1:15:04

be told like even if

1:15:06

you think that's true You

1:15:09

don't say that no like

1:15:11

it's it's it's not like

1:15:13

a unknown thing that like

1:15:15

men will excuse my French,

1:15:17

but like men will fuck

1:15:19

a pillow. You know what

1:15:21

I mean to be told

1:15:23

like I'm so repulsed by

1:15:26

your physical body that I

1:15:28

am now breaking up with

1:15:30

you is like one of

1:15:32

maybe like the worst things

1:15:34

that you can be told.

1:15:36

And then it just progressively

1:15:38

got weirder. Like it didn't

1:15:40

stop there. So he tells

1:15:43

me that and I'm like,

1:15:45

are you sure? Like, when?

1:15:47

Okay. And then it's like...

1:15:49

uninvited to his birthday party.

1:15:51

So now I'm thinking about

1:15:53

like, I have birthday gifts,

1:15:55

I have to return, like

1:15:57

I have to unwrap birthday

1:15:59

presents and return. them now.

1:16:02

So that was a part

1:16:04

of it. And then he

1:16:06

says something to the effect

1:16:08

of like, you know, but

1:16:10

I know, like, I know

1:16:12

you're going to be such

1:16:14

a big director one day

1:16:16

and you're going to win

1:16:19

an Oscar. And when you

1:16:21

do, I'm going to be

1:16:23

there in the back and

1:16:25

I'm going to be the

1:16:27

first one clapping for you

1:16:29

and cheering you on. And

1:16:31

I was like, did you

1:16:33

just law law law land

1:16:36

me? Like, what the hell?

1:16:38

What? And yeah. And so

1:16:40

it was like all of

1:16:42

these things and then he

1:16:44

just walked out of my

1:16:46

apartment, went full, no contact,

1:16:48

and like, that was it.

1:16:50

Silence. It was silent. And

1:16:52

I remember thinking like, what

1:16:55

the hell just happened? Yeah.

1:16:57

But he did not follow

1:16:59

me on social media, and

1:17:01

so I'm literally seeing like

1:17:03

my boyfriend now ex Having

1:17:05

a great time at his

1:17:07

birthday party Of course, yeah,

1:17:09

of course, you know doing

1:17:12

all of this stuff, and

1:17:14

I'm like devastated I'm crushed

1:17:16

I'm like oh, which has

1:17:18

happened I just got annihilated

1:17:20

And I just got annihilated

1:17:22

And I remember like on

1:17:24

his birthday that Sunday I

1:17:26

texted him and I was

1:17:29

I left him a voice

1:17:31

message. I was like hey

1:17:33

I'm not trying to be

1:17:35

weird, it's just your birthday

1:17:37

and I just want to

1:17:39

wish you a happy birthday.

1:17:41

And we texted that day

1:17:43

into the next day and

1:17:45

he said something like, I'm

1:17:48

like sad. And I was

1:17:50

like, well, yeah, like this

1:17:52

is sad feeling. And that

1:17:54

was like really the last

1:17:56

time that we communicated. and

1:17:58

And it was like somebody

1:18:00

that like you're talking about,

1:18:02

we had like a to

1:18:05

do list of like things

1:18:07

that we were going to

1:18:09

do together. Like Tony wrote

1:18:11

me a short film that

1:18:13

I was going to direct

1:18:15

and he was going to

1:18:17

act in. Like we had

1:18:19

talked about. projects we were

1:18:22

going to do together and

1:18:24

I was going to teach

1:18:26

him how to budget and

1:18:28

he was going to, you

1:18:30

know, do all of these

1:18:32

things. He had talked about

1:18:34

me, the next West Anderson

1:18:36

movie that he got cast

1:18:38

in, he was going to

1:18:41

bring me on set to

1:18:43

be with the other girlfriends

1:18:45

and wives and how much

1:18:47

like West Anderson was going

1:18:49

to love meeting me and

1:18:51

all of these things. And

1:18:53

it was like one dinner,

1:18:55

one conversation, two to three

1:18:58

days later, he's completely gone.

1:19:00

Go on. I mean you

1:19:02

had a real relationship. You

1:19:04

know I think when we

1:19:06

started this conversation I was

1:19:08

like this will be interesting

1:19:10

because you know power dynamics

1:19:12

and celebrity is interesting but

1:19:15

but really you went through

1:19:17

a relationship and then it

1:19:19

was like just went off

1:19:21

like a light switch and

1:19:23

that's it sounds really heartbreaking

1:19:25

and I'm sorry it ended

1:19:27

like that I'm sorry said

1:19:29

those things to you as

1:19:31

well like Jesus Christ. What

1:19:34

a mean awful thing to

1:19:36

say. I think it's a

1:19:38

horrible thing to say to

1:19:40

somebody, even if you think

1:19:42

it's true. Just shut your

1:19:44

mouth, even if you think

1:19:46

it's true, just keep it

1:19:48

to yourself. Yeah, you just

1:19:51

don't, you know, I think

1:19:53

I have been very open

1:19:55

with Tony and he had

1:19:57

shared like certain vulnerabilities and

1:19:59

insecurities with me in our

1:20:01

relationship as you do. And

1:20:03

you know, I have very

1:20:05

significant abandonment trauma from when

1:20:07

I was a kid. If

1:20:10

we break up, I was

1:20:12

like just being nice about

1:20:14

it. Like just if you

1:20:16

could not do like this,

1:20:18

that would be great because

1:20:20

like it would devastate me

1:20:22

because I... I know my

1:20:24

traumas, even though I've worked

1:20:27

through it. And like he

1:20:29

quite literally, and this is

1:20:31

a characteristic of avoidant attachment

1:20:33

styles, it's called being discarded,

1:20:35

where like you wake up

1:20:37

and all of a sudden

1:20:39

this person that's been in

1:20:41

your life, that's a constant,

1:20:44

just throws you out. And

1:20:46

you're sort of left with

1:20:48

this like, where did you

1:20:50

go? And so you're almost

1:20:52

like grieving. somebody and for

1:20:54

me it was grieving like

1:20:56

not only this relationship where

1:20:58

there was no there was

1:21:00

no bracing for impact it

1:21:03

was like oh no no

1:21:05

this is happening very very

1:21:07

quickly yeah and it was

1:21:09

like the relationship imploded and

1:21:11

then on top of that

1:21:13

I'm grieving all of these

1:21:15

future plans that we had

1:21:17

discussed and built together that

1:21:20

I guess we're just not

1:21:22

gonna do at all at

1:21:24

all at all Ever? Yeah.

1:21:26

It was really, really, I

1:21:28

mean, I was, I was

1:21:30

crushed. I, I took, it

1:21:32

took like any sort of

1:21:34

self-worth that I had just

1:21:37

was, because it was such

1:21:39

a layered thing, it was

1:21:41

like, imagine you're getting rejected

1:21:43

by your boyfriend, but then

1:21:45

in a way, you're almost

1:21:47

getting rejected by Hollywood. Yeah.

1:21:49

Yeah. you're basically being told

1:21:51

like you're physically so unattractive

1:21:53

that I don't care that

1:21:56

we've had this relationship I

1:21:58

just can't get past that

1:22:00

that's awful which is awful

1:22:02

so so so was this

1:22:04

some of the motivation behind

1:22:06

going public about all of

1:22:08

this on on TikTok yeah

1:22:10

totally a hundred percent a

1:22:13

hundred percent yeah a hundred

1:22:15

percent because you know at

1:22:17

one time Tony told me

1:22:19

one time when because he

1:22:21

was vulnerable with me in

1:22:23

certain settings And he told

1:22:25

me that being publicly called

1:22:27

out, he said, was like,

1:22:30

would be the absolute worst

1:22:32

nightmare for him. He was

1:22:34

like, I. could not, like

1:22:36

he was like, if I

1:22:38

went on one of those

1:22:40

punk shows and like they

1:22:42

punked me and then I

1:22:44

realized like it was a

1:22:46

joke and not real, like

1:22:49

I would have so much

1:22:51

anxiety from that. And he

1:22:53

said like if there was

1:22:55

any sort of public controversy

1:22:57

surrounding me or somebody publicly

1:22:59

called me out, I would

1:23:01

have so much anxiety about

1:23:03

that. So he told me

1:23:06

that and I have a

1:23:08

very good memory. And I

1:23:10

remember. Yeah, he really underestimated

1:23:12

the level playing field that

1:23:14

TikTok has given us in

1:23:16

the media industry. You know,

1:23:18

you don't need a megaphone

1:23:20

anymore. You just, you got

1:23:23

TikTok. Right, right. And. a

1:23:25

lot of my friends and

1:23:27

even some of my family

1:23:29

very much advised against it.

1:23:31

What? Very much told me

1:23:33

not to. No, I think

1:23:35

that is interesting. That is

1:23:37

like an age-old tradition of

1:23:39

like when you're feeling hurt,

1:23:42

when you're feeling angry, you

1:23:44

know, don't be publicly vulnerable.

1:23:46

Like keep your dirty laundry

1:23:48

to yourself. But also I'm

1:23:50

curious why you ignored the

1:23:52

advice of your parents and

1:23:54

your friends. You know, if

1:23:56

you are a famous musician

1:23:59

or actor or director and

1:24:01

you have a public break

1:24:03

up, it's very very common

1:24:05

and normal to turn it

1:24:07

into art. Taylor Swift is

1:24:09

a billionaire because of it.

1:24:11

Seriously. Yeah. It is not

1:24:13

a unknown thing, but the

1:24:16

precedent and this idea that

1:24:18

it was almost like a

1:24:20

David and Goliath, like because

1:24:22

I am a nope. batting

1:24:24

up against somebody who is

1:24:26

known, they were very concerned

1:24:28

that the perception would be

1:24:30

you are cloud chasing or

1:24:32

you know people aren't going

1:24:35

to want to work with

1:24:37

you anymore because you're difficult

1:24:39

or your celebrity obsessed or

1:24:41

you know obviously all you

1:24:43

care about is fame and

1:24:45

you're using him for that.

1:24:47

And my response was this

1:24:49

is Not that. I was

1:24:52

in a relationship with somebody.

1:24:54

He was my boyfriend. He

1:24:56

broke up with me in

1:24:58

a horrible way. He broke

1:25:00

my heart. And I don't

1:25:02

think anybody, regardless of status,

1:25:04

is safe from that. You

1:25:06

know, like, you, when you

1:25:09

enter in a relationship with

1:25:11

somebody, whether it's a romantic

1:25:13

relationship or it's platonic, you

1:25:15

know, between friends. You are

1:25:17

taking on the responsibility of

1:25:19

their feelings and how you

1:25:21

handle them is your responsibility

1:25:23

and how it ends in

1:25:25

the aftermath is also your

1:25:28

responsibility. So he really brought

1:25:30

it upon himself for all

1:25:32

of this to happen. The

1:25:34

song that you wrote about

1:25:36

this experience. It's a very

1:25:38

niche song. It's a very

1:25:40

niche song. It's all right.

1:25:42

We're into niche. His voice

1:25:45

is in it, which like

1:25:47

nobody noticed. Okay, okay. I

1:25:49

wrote the like hook of

1:25:51

the song and like a

1:25:53

lot of the lyrics the

1:25:55

day that he broke up

1:25:57

with me because I was

1:25:59

so... Mad. You know, I

1:26:02

think going through grieving stages,

1:26:04

like the first initial emotion

1:26:06

that I had, I was

1:26:08

angry. I was like, I

1:26:10

cannot believe you just said

1:26:12

that to me. You called

1:26:14

me sexually unattractive when I

1:26:16

have a video that you

1:26:18

sent me where you say...

1:26:21

Hi, I miss you, which

1:26:23

is how the song opens.

1:26:25

So I pulled the audio

1:26:27

from that video and I

1:26:29

put that in the beginning

1:26:31

of the song. Oh my

1:26:33

God. Look, I just got

1:26:35

a few more questions. Sure.

1:26:38

Really, really, I just got

1:26:40

two. I got two questions.

1:26:42

All right, so I think,

1:26:44

um, I think one of

1:26:46

the biggest questions that's lingered

1:26:48

over this whole story is

1:26:50

sort of just like the

1:26:52

nature of celebrity, the nature

1:26:55

of fame, what it does

1:26:57

to people. Yeah, and what

1:26:59

did you learn? Yeah, I

1:27:01

think, you know, as I

1:27:03

mentioned throughout our relationship, like

1:27:05

there, there is a Tony

1:27:07

underneath the surface that I

1:27:09

very, very much was infatuated

1:27:11

with. Like I saw Tony

1:27:14

as that 14, 15 year

1:27:16

old teenager who went from

1:27:18

being very unknown and in

1:27:20

a, you know, kind of,

1:27:22

I think single household family

1:27:24

where you know things you

1:27:26

don't have extreme wealth or

1:27:28

you know extreme resources or

1:27:31

anything. His family, his whole

1:27:33

family is Guatemalan and he's

1:27:35

got a lot of his

1:27:37

family still in Guatemala and

1:27:39

I see that 14 year

1:27:41

old who makes it big

1:27:43

and all of a sudden...

1:27:45

your life changes and you

1:27:48

can take care of your

1:27:50

family and your mom and

1:27:52

you go from being this

1:27:54

kind of like anxious nerdy

1:27:56

person to having to be

1:27:58

in the spotlight. And so

1:28:00

like that's the Tony that

1:28:02

I saw that I thought

1:28:04

was very human and interesting

1:28:07

and relatable. The fame. influence

1:28:09

in our relationship this idea

1:28:11

of like what is normal

1:28:13

and what is not and

1:28:15

are you a super fan

1:28:17

and are you not a

1:28:19

super fan and can I

1:28:21

invite you into my world

1:28:24

can I not and that's

1:28:26

really really a tricky tricky

1:28:28

thing to navigate and and

1:28:30

it's not just him it's

1:28:32

also certain friends of his

1:28:34

I that I met I

1:28:36

could tell very much like

1:28:38

to them that I was

1:28:41

not relevant to the conversation.

1:28:43

My world is too different

1:28:45

and they also don't even

1:28:47

think to like ask normal

1:28:49

questions like what is your

1:28:51

job. They know everybody that

1:28:53

I met and that I

1:28:55

interacted with. You can tell

1:28:57

that they know, I know

1:29:00

who they are because they're

1:29:02

very famous and there's this

1:29:04

very weird not like up

1:29:06

frontness right instead of being

1:29:08

like hi I'm so and

1:29:10

so I know you probably

1:29:12

know who I am but

1:29:14

it's very lovely to meet

1:29:17

you there is none of

1:29:19

that you know it's this

1:29:21

very like almost pretending like

1:29:23

they try to act like

1:29:25

I don't know who they

1:29:27

are but they know I

1:29:29

know who they are and

1:29:31

so there's this very weird

1:29:34

you know it's very weird

1:29:36

yeah yeah that's very weird

1:29:38

that's a lot of mental

1:29:40

acrobatics Totally totally and like

1:29:42

that's really what it what

1:29:44

it came down to was

1:29:46

There's like this unsung layer.

1:29:48

I used to say like

1:29:50

the visual representation is like

1:29:53

between Tony and I was

1:29:55

a plexiglass Yeah, and it's

1:29:57

like I could see him

1:29:59

I could almost touch him.

1:30:01

I was close to him

1:30:03

But that plexiglass was his

1:30:05

celebrity and fame and I

1:30:07

just could not get through

1:30:10

it no matter what I

1:30:12

did. Okay, okay. So I

1:30:14

mean, I've talked about knotting

1:30:16

hill a few times, but

1:30:18

is that the kind of

1:30:20

the element that... isn't quite

1:30:22

encapsulated in Notting Hill. You

1:30:24

know, like, is this like

1:30:26

the fantasy that so many

1:30:29

people have of like, oh,

1:30:31

imagine if I was in

1:30:33

Hollywood or if I somehow

1:30:35

penetrated that world and became

1:30:37

part of that echelon, is

1:30:39

this the thing that we

1:30:41

don't understand is that you

1:30:43

can never quite get into

1:30:46

that world. Absolutely. I think

1:30:48

the hard reality is, unless

1:30:50

you are in that world.

1:30:52

like on your own merit,

1:30:54

you're never really going to

1:30:56

be in that world. As

1:30:58

much as I think Tony

1:31:00

attempted to bring me into

1:31:03

it because of all of

1:31:05

the conditioning and the things

1:31:07

that he's experienced and dealt

1:31:09

with due to like his

1:31:11

celebrity and fame, there was

1:31:13

like that barrier. This sounds

1:31:15

to me like under those

1:31:17

conditions, you did the absolutely

1:31:19

best you could. Thank you.

1:31:22

That brings me to my

1:31:24

last question here and um,

1:31:26

sure. Because, so this was

1:31:28

a relationship at its core,

1:31:30

you know, it kind of

1:31:32

doesn't matter who Tony was.

1:31:34

It was just a love

1:31:36

story in some ways. So

1:31:39

I'm just wondering what you

1:31:41

learned about love. You know,

1:31:43

I think this, this was

1:31:45

my first heartbreak. This was

1:31:47

my first like heartbreak like

1:31:49

this, like deep, deeply affecting

1:31:51

heartbreak. And I think, you

1:31:53

know, having chemistry and connection

1:31:56

genuine with someone is way

1:31:58

more rare than people realize.

1:32:00

I think when you're younger

1:32:02

and you break up with

1:32:04

somebody, you're like, oh, I'm

1:32:06

going to meet somebody else.

1:32:08

And as you get older,

1:32:10

you realize that it's actually...

1:32:12

quite harder to meet somebody

1:32:15

that you have a deeper

1:32:17

connection with or chemistry. and

1:32:19

I think that is the

1:32:21

hardest thing about all of

1:32:23

this is that it's very

1:32:25

rare and and I guess

1:32:27

the point of all of

1:32:29

this is what I've learned

1:32:32

about love is when you

1:32:34

love someone you love them

1:32:36

yeah and I think that

1:32:38

is the hardest thing about

1:32:40

all of this is that

1:32:42

it just hurts to love

1:32:44

somebody yeah Although, for what

1:32:46

it's worth, I think you're

1:32:49

dealing with it well. You

1:32:51

know, going viral on TikTok,

1:32:53

making a video, making a

1:32:55

music video, and especially talking

1:32:57

to me, I think these

1:32:59

are really good choices. So

1:33:01

too. Well, I've really enjoyed

1:33:03

talking to you. So yeah,

1:33:05

thanks so much for sharing

1:33:08

your story and your insights.

1:33:10

I mean, I've been wondering

1:33:12

about this for years. So

1:33:14

you've answered all of my

1:33:16

questions that I've ever had,

1:33:18

which is quite a few.

1:33:20

Oh my goodness. No, I'm

1:33:22

so glad to have been

1:33:25

able to do this. And

1:33:27

I hope that for anybody

1:33:29

listening. I am not a

1:33:31

crazy ex-girlfriend. This was very

1:33:33

justified behavior. I completely agree.

1:33:35

In your shoes, I'd have

1:33:37

done exactly the same thing.

1:33:39

You missed me? Well I

1:33:42

missed you too. Yeah I'll

1:33:44

meant it. Make you tremble

1:33:46

with more scary soft voice.

1:33:48

Since you're so dead inside.

1:33:50

Maybe then you'll come alive.

1:34:00

In case you didn't catch

1:34:02

it, you are listening to

1:34:04

Maya's breakup. In case you

1:34:06

didn't catch it, you are

1:34:08

listening to Maya's breakup song

1:34:11

about Tony. And it's good,

1:34:13

right? It's catchy. And you

1:34:15

should absolutely check out Maya's

1:34:17

other songs, her video clips,

1:34:19

and her just general tic-toc

1:34:22

stuff online. She is, Maya

1:34:24

makes music, and she's on

1:34:26

YouTube, she's on tic-toc, and

1:34:28

Instagram. That's spelled, Maya, M-Y-A-H.

1:34:30

Second part of it is,

1:34:33

just makes music, one word.

1:34:35

Check her out and follow

1:34:37

her. Today's episode was produced

1:34:39

by Rachel Tufrey. It was

1:34:41

mixed by Jimmy Saunders, who

1:34:44

also did our theme music.

1:34:46

Daniela Cantu and Chloe Stelling

1:34:48

are our interns, our cover

1:34:50

artists by Naomi Lee Beverage,

1:34:53

and this whole thing has

1:34:55

been a super ill production.

1:34:57

Yeah, no one knows my

1:34:59

name. Couldn't drive 40 minutes

1:35:01

to see me. Keeping plans

1:35:04

really wasn't easy. Thought we'd

1:35:06

finish our list. But Flash

1:35:08

loves is quiet time. And

1:35:10

he's asleep a-night. Except when

1:35:12

there's another girl or dinner

1:35:15

or a meeting or anything

1:35:17

except being... I

1:36:00

can see a future.

1:36:02

Why not thank you

1:36:05

for being so blind?

1:36:07

Why not thank you

1:36:09

for making a mess

1:36:12

of me? Why not

1:36:14

thank you for all

1:36:16

your insecurity? Your

1:38:25

personal data is a goldmine for hackers,

1:38:27

and aura helps lock it down. aura

1:38:29

monitors the dark web, blocks data brokers

1:38:31

from selling your information, includes a

1:38:34

VPN for private browsing, and a

1:38:36

password manager to secure your accounts

1:38:38

before criminals break in. details.