0:00

Brian Wynne is a barman in Dublin, what

0:02

we'd call a bartender here in the

0:04

States, and he's the kind of guy who

0:06

needs no introduction. Not because he's

0:08

famous, but because... As Michael Crouten

0:10

said, I do sometimes suffer from

0:13

a deplorable excessive personality. No, he

0:15

needs no introduction because he

0:17

can introduce himself perfectly well. I'm

0:19

a friendly kind of an outgoing

0:22

chap. I've become friends with people

0:24

easily, you know. That's what makes

0:26

me fit the bar trade so

0:28

well. I'm extremely likable. I'm incredibly

0:30

handsome, intelligent, witty, you know. I

0:32

am the most humble man in

0:34

Ireland. He's worked at a brew pub

0:36

called The Porter House for 20 years.

0:39

It's not the stereotypical Irish pub

0:41

you might be imagining with the

0:43

roaring fire and the old man

0:45

asleep with the red nose at

0:47

the bar and the dog on

0:49

the floor licking a bowl of

0:51

beer. It's in a well-known touristy

0:53

district of Dublin called Temple Bar.

0:55

We've got one thing for five

0:57

floors, we can hold about 450

0:59

odd people, two bars. Oh, so

1:01

this place is huge. It's a

1:03

good shop. It's all wood and

1:06

regret really is what it is,

1:08

you know. It's the kind of place

1:10

a tourist might wander into and ask

1:12

for a pint of Guinness. But

1:14

for three decades, this Dublin bar

1:17

didn't sell it. We've been open

1:19

since 96 and we put our first

1:21

Guinness tap in about three weeks ago. We

1:23

make an equivalent porter. Thinking what I say

1:25

equivalent to me, it's vastly superior of course,

1:27

but I can't say that. I'm sure your

1:29

lawyers will have a go at you for

1:32

allowing me to say that kind of thing.

1:34

Unfortunately, they found that tourists still wanted Ireland's

1:36

most famous beer. I suppose it's like the

1:38

Paris Syndrome, you know? When the Japanese tourists

1:40

come to Paris and they expected all romance

1:42

and it's just covered in graffiti and smells

1:44

a piss. So when the French tours comes

1:46

in to me and asks me for a

1:48

Guinness and I say we don't sell the

1:51

stuff, it ruins their stereotype. It bursts our

1:53

bubble. Right. Well, congratulations on the first, how

1:55

is the first three weeks of Guinness sales

1:57

gone? It's out selling everything else we have.

1:59

Is it real? Miles. Yeah, it's um...

2:01

I've looked out there it is, you

2:03

know, it's a decent product. It absolutely

2:05

flies out. You spend 20 years explaining

2:07

to people why we don't sell Guinness.

2:09

Because our products are superior and more

2:11

Irish and you make jokes about it.

2:13

Now so many anecdotal lines all built

2:16

up about the sale of Guinness which

2:18

we don't have and we do have

2:20

it in. And every time somebody asks

2:22

for it, for the first few weeks

2:24

anyway, it was justice. I'm

2:37

Dan Heath and this is what it's

2:39

like to be. In every episode we

2:42

walk in the shoes of someone from

2:44

a different profession, an interior designer, a

2:46

stadium beer vendor, a summer camp director.

2:49

We want to know what they do

2:51

all day at work. Today we'll ask

2:53

Brian when, what it's like to

2:56

be a barman. We'll talk about

2:58

the delicate art of cutting someone

3:00

off when they've had too much.

3:02

What he's learned about reading people

3:04

after three decades behind the bar.

3:07

And... How he handles customers who

3:09

try to order a Budweiser, stay

3:11

with us. So how did you

3:13

get into bartending in

3:15

the first place? My dad was a

3:18

sales rep. He sold soft drinks,

3:20

so like the whole county, that's

3:22

200 different pubs, and he'd

3:24

be driving around to them

3:27

all selling his wares to

3:29

them, and he just got

3:31

to know every barman and

3:33

publican's wife, open down the

3:35

whole part of Lenster. the

3:37

problems we live in. And I wouldn't

3:39

have been the most academic of children

3:41

and I basically failed every exam ever

3:43

put in front of me in school.

3:46

So my father looked at me like

3:48

I'm some sort of idiot. A wise

3:50

man to be fair, you know, I'm

3:52

clearly some sort of an idiot so

3:54

perhaps I should try something that required

3:56

less academia, you know, something that required

3:58

very little thought. So basically he said, we'll

4:01

have to get you a job. So he went

4:03

into one of the pubs and said, will you

4:05

take my stupid child in? So they took me

4:07

in and I sort of failed from bar to

4:09

bar until it's a tough hell job to walk

4:11

into and be good at. Because

4:13

mostly it's about life experience that

4:15

makes you better, you know? Being to judge

4:18

people and judge little things and how to

4:20

react accordingly. So God, you could spend years

4:22

in a bar as a completely useless kind

4:25

of a passenger. Until you just get it

4:27

one day, you know? What was the

4:29

hardest thing for you to learn as a

4:31

young man? Oh God, a basic

4:33

work ethic. Keep moving, do stuff,

4:35

be proactive at all the time. Just

4:38

work. Your bossman pays you per hour.

4:40

So if you've done nothing for half

4:42

an hour, well then what are you

4:45

doing? Move, keep going. I suppose after

4:47

a while you learn a bit

4:49

about how to read people. Because

4:51

that is the main thing. That's

4:53

your main, the purpose of a

4:55

bartender, you know. Is to read people.

4:57

Yeah, to be the kind of the soul of

4:59

your pub. If you walk in every pub's

5:02

the same really at the end of the

5:04

day, you know, it's just a bar or

5:06

still and some drink. But what would make

5:08

some bars better would be the guy or

5:10

the girl behind the counter who's got a

5:12

bit of crack about them. They can listen

5:14

to your stories, they can give you advice,

5:16

they can ignore you, they can do whatever

5:19

it takes to make you feel that you're

5:21

comfortable there for however long you're

5:23

going to sit there, and that's

5:25

going to much later. I wasn't much

5:27

good at that stuff in my early 20s.

5:29

I don't feel like many bartenders in

5:32

the US are paying a lot of

5:34

attention to the people's side of things.

5:36

Here you just walk in and you

5:38

order a drink and you pay and

5:40

that's pretty much it. But it sounds

5:43

like you're paying closer attention to

5:45

social stuff. Oh God, I mean if

5:47

a person comes into your pub and

5:49

sits at the bar and asks for

5:51

beer and you give him beer and

5:54

then you walk away from him. You know

5:56

what makes him come back? How do

5:58

I get the rest of his... money

6:00

into my tail. Let's call

6:02

a spade of spade here, that's

6:04

the crack here really isn't it?

6:06

Now you've used the word crack

6:09

a couple of times, what does

6:11

that word mean? Oh, do

6:13

you know something Dan? I'll

6:15

tell you this much. I

6:17

have done whole theses on

6:19

explaining to Americans what the

6:21

word crack means. Oh good,

6:24

let's do this. Let's do

6:26

the lectureret on crack. C-R-A-C-K?

6:28

C-R-A-I-C is how it's spelled.

6:30

C-R-A-I-C is how it's spelled.

6:32

C-R-A-I-C is. I'm not

6:34

going to tell him what

6:36

the crack is. I'm not

6:39

going to tell him what

6:41

the crack is. You won't

6:43

get it. You don't

6:45

understand. You can't

6:47

understand. You can't

6:50

understand. You

6:52

can't explain it

6:54

directly. Do I pull back

6:56

the curtains for this man?

6:58

Yeah, yeah, just a little bit.

7:00

Yeah, man is saying I should,

7:03

right, okay. If you ask

7:05

Google what the crack is,

7:07

Google won't know. Hey, Google,

7:10

what's the crack? I can't

7:12

answer that question. What is

7:14

the crack? Is a greeting

7:16

in this country? How

7:19

are you going on? What's the

7:21

crack? Have you had good crack?

7:23

Yes, I had good crack. It

7:25

was good fun. It's the personal

7:27

enjoyment you get from the engagement

7:29

with somebody else that you get

7:31

on with someone you find funny

7:34

would be your man's grey crack. Or

7:36

you meet somebody who comes in and

7:38

oh that guy's absolutely no crack. Your

7:40

man's absolutely shit crack. No crack.

7:42

That's like the ultimate insult. He's

7:44

a mood over there. He's a

7:46

crack vacuum. You know you meet people

7:48

in the course of your daily life that

7:51

are just so dull. A mood Hoover, that's

7:53

my favorite new phrase. Yeah, but that's

7:55

the thing man, you see, you wander

7:57

into the pub, you come up to

7:59

the bar. You and your buddy are

8:01

there. You've finished work. It's been

8:04

a long, old day. And you

8:06

sit at the bar counter and

8:08

the barman comes over. Hello, chops,

8:10

how are you? Two points, grand.

8:13

You put up the two points.

8:15

And the two men are sitting

8:17

there, staring into space. You know,

8:19

and you get that 10,000, you

8:21

get that 10,000 yards stairs

8:24

sometimes after you've had a long

8:26

day. You do not want to

8:28

interact. any jokes from your legs

8:31

and then there's that moment of silence when

8:33

if you ask anyone to tell you a joke

8:35

they always stop they'll always stop and

8:37

go I don't know any jokes as you do know a joke

8:39

tell me a joke I don't know any jokes tell me

8:41

a joke I don't know any jokes tell me and

8:43

then you tell them a joke and then they

8:45

tell you a joke and you walk away and

8:48

they're laughing there had a bit of crack and

8:50

then everyone's happy and then they come back tomorrow

8:52

for a pint again you know I've got

8:54

two young girls, so I know

8:56

a lot of kid jokes. You

8:58

want to hear a kid joke?

9:00

They're the best jokes. They're the

9:02

best jokes. They're the best jokes.

9:04

So a photon is checking in

9:07

to a hotel and the bellman

9:09

comes over and says, hey, can I

9:11

help you with your luggage? And

9:13

the photon says, no, I'm traveling

9:15

light. That's a good joke. Crack.

9:18

I need to add my game.

9:20

Brian told me that the majority

9:22

of customers at his bar are

9:24

tourists. You think he would get

9:26

sick of dealing with them day

9:29

in and day out, but he

9:31

genuinely seems to enjoy them.

9:33

Especially Americans. They love common

9:35

to Ireland, sitting in the

9:37

bar and talking to an Irishman.

9:40

And I am an insufferable talker. I

9:42

talk non-stop. So is it

9:44

sort of like having a warm, audience?

9:46

Every day you go to work. You

9:49

know, I often think about that guy

9:51

that lived in Austria who chained his

9:53

entire family to a basement downstairs because

9:55

he just wanted to talk to somebody.

9:57

But I don't want them to talk to me. In

9:59

fact... I just want them to listen.

10:01

That's what it is. Do American tourists

10:03

ever come into the bar and order

10:06

like a Budweiser? It does happen. It

10:08

does happen. Do you shout them out

10:10

the door? No, no. The first thing

10:12

they will do is they will get

10:14

the eyebrow, which you can't see, but

10:16

you know the way the rock does

10:18

that thing with his eyebrow? I can

10:20

do that with both of them individually,

10:22

you know, so you've got the inquisitive

10:25

eyebrow and the desultory eyebrow

10:27

and then the disappointed eyebrow.

10:29

And the Budweiser gets, which

10:31

of those? Well, in that order.

10:34

Okay. You know. It's the full cascade

10:36

of emotional judgment. Oh, it's all,

10:38

my eyebrows decide to have a

10:41

little, have a moment all their

10:43

own. They all do a little

10:45

macarainer on the top of my

10:47

head. But look, the thing with

10:50

Budweiser as an example is,

10:52

I mean, that's factory beer. If

10:54

you ask me for Budweiser, I'll

10:56

say, well, I've got Bud

10:58

Javitsovitzi. And I have that and they always say,

11:01

well, is it the same thing? And I say, well, it's

11:03

the original. It's not the same at all.

11:05

It tastes like beer, whereas Budweiser, it just

11:07

tastes like regret. But he's not just chatting

11:09

it up with tourists. He's also got a

11:11

whole cast of local characters who he keeps

11:13

track of. I mean, I know the names

11:15

of so many people, like hundreds of random

11:18

strangers. I know their names. I couldn't read

11:20

her second names. I couldn't read her second

11:22

names. I don't read her second names. I

11:24

don't know what to do when they walk

11:26

out the door, but when they walk in

11:28

the door, oh, here's Pat the Grimace, he

11:30

drinks the point of that stuff. Oh, there's

11:32

John the Smelly, he drinks the point of

11:34

that stuff. You have a little nicknames

11:36

for all these people, of course, just

11:38

so you can remember them all. Do they

11:41

know their nicknames? Or are those for you?

11:43

God, no they don't. I think Pat's my bear.

11:45

You know, let's be frank here. Fair point, fair

11:47

point. Yeah that's the kind of thing, so you

11:49

know when a certain fellas come in, oh there's

11:52

those two chaps, they'll be coming in, quick point

11:54

off to the cinema, too retired man, I know

11:56

what they're gonna drink, before they do sometimes. They

11:58

wonder when you see them home. hand at

12:00

the bar. I don't know, what do

12:02

you want? I don't know, what do

12:05

you have today? Go lads, do you

12:07

know this one? Couple of points of

12:09

playing to sort yourselves out and then

12:12

you can have a fancy IPA. And

12:14

then they're happy. They would have decided

12:16

that old. And then they're happy. And

12:19

that's it. They would have decided that

12:21

anyway. I've just, you know, ironed out

12:23

the creases in the conversation. There was

12:26

a girl sat at the bar, extremely

12:28

attractive, middle European woman, classy, really bright,

12:30

good crack about her. She came and

12:32

sits at the bar and his other,

12:35

I don't want to say it out

12:37

loud, but a man lacking in dorms

12:39

sat beside her and I got them

12:42

talking together and they're still going out.

12:44

Those before COVID, so that's five years

12:46

ago. Wow, you were a matchmaker. Yeah,

12:49

those two people are still going out

12:51

together. They come in occasionally and you

12:53

man always makes a point giving me

12:56

the giving me the nod, the nod,

12:58

the nod, the nod, you know, you

13:00

know. You know, that kind of could

13:02

man yourself. That kind of stuff. That

13:05

makes my day, you know, if I

13:07

can just inject myself a little bit

13:09

into their lives and make it a

13:12

little bit better. Walk us through like

13:14

a typical day, like what are your

13:16

hours? What are the busy times? Give

13:19

us a slice of life. So my

13:21

working week would be I'm off every

13:23

Wednesday, Thursday. I've had Thursday off my

13:26

entire adult life. It's a thing I

13:28

remember of my first bear. I was

13:30

in the UK. And the bar manager

13:32

asked what day you went off and

13:35

I said, can I have whatever day

13:37

you want plus Thursday? So then come

13:39

Friday, which would be a good busy

13:42

day, I can hit the ground running

13:44

on Friday, you know? Full of beans,

13:46

I've had a day off. So we'll

13:49

say Friday, I come back after my

13:51

two days off. I come back after

13:53

my two days off. And I'm relaxed

13:55

and I'm full of cheer and hope

13:58

for the weekend and optimism and hope

14:00

for humanity. I really feel that the

14:02

world is turning. you know, I'll start

14:05

work about 5 o'clock on a Friday.

14:07

evening and then I'll just hammer my

14:09

way through until we stop serving about

14:12

two in the morning so by about

14:14

half three I've got my medicinal point

14:16

in front of me and then I

14:19

got a bus home I'm home for

14:21

about four and then it will be

14:23

either a I will sit and watch

14:25

a bit of football that my lovely

14:28

wife will have recorded or I will

14:30

just sort of stare into the darkness

14:32

for a while before I go to

14:35

bed. That's a long time. Five to,

14:37

you know, you're winding down at four

14:39

in the morning. Yeah, yeah. But that's

14:42

the job. You know, that's Friday, Saturday,

14:44

it's the same. Sunday I'd finish. I

14:46

suppose by half one, I'm having my

14:49

medicinal pint, I could be home for

14:51

two, you know. Get home, get in,

14:53

and then, you know, you've mistakenly sliced

14:55

a toast cup of tea. Is there

14:58

a physical toll of the job? Yeah,

15:00

yeah, there's a physical hole. So again,

15:02

I'm nearly 50. I'm in pretty good

15:05

shape for a man of my age.

15:07

I don't do exercise, I don't go

15:09

to the gym. But I've got been

15:12

on my feet my entire out of

15:14

life. Both of my feet work, my

15:16

knees aren't too bad. Hips are getting

15:19

a bit recalcitrant, touching on compliant in

15:21

the mornings. But other than that, you

15:23

know, the only real problems, like, you

15:25

get your right shoulder. Because you know

15:28

between the pouring of the points and

15:30

the lift the thing over the onto

15:32

the bar of counter It's all with

15:35

the right hand if you're right handed.

15:37

So it's just a constant movement Oh

15:39

gosh, I didn't think about all those

15:42

repetitive motions like and they're all on

15:44

one side of the body. That's interesting

15:46

Well, yeah, that's the thing like my

15:48

wife's been she's worked in the same

15:51

pub I worked in she's worked in

15:53

that pub since it opened in 96

15:55

Mm-hmm just in case you ever listen

15:58

to this. And where bar is quite

16:00

high and then the counter mounts sort

16:02

of the unit that the taps are

16:05

attached to on the bar. is also

16:07

quite high, so she really has to

16:09

reach over to put a drink down.

16:12

And over the course of 30 odd

16:14

years, you know, she sort of worn

16:16

down the rotator cuff on her right

16:18

shoulder, so she's, essentially she retired last

16:21

year. Wow. Yeah, just because the basic

16:23

wear and tear in the body, she

16:25

just couldn't do it anymore, you know.

16:28

So give us a sense of some

16:30

of the day-to-day operational challenges that you're

16:32

dealing with as a barman? Oh, the

16:35

most basic things. When your beer stops

16:37

pouring out of your tap and you

16:39

run down, the young that's gone down

16:42

to change the keg, he comes across

16:44

a simple problem. To me, it's hardly

16:46

a problem, but to him, you know,

16:48

it's just like looking at a nuclear

16:51

reactor. You know, you get a lot

16:53

of kids when you go into the

16:55

cellar, it's just, oh God. Especially with

16:58

us, because it's craft beer. All of

17:00

their sort of mechanics, the gas pushes

17:02

it through. In 99% of pubs, they

17:05

are the same. They're utterly identical. Because

17:07

they're all being supplied by the agio

17:09

to people who own Guinness. Whereas with

17:12

us, it's not. Because we'll have kegs

17:14

of beer from Moretti, Shimé, Sierra Nevada,

17:16

English brews. We've got different types of

17:18

beer line, different kinds of everything. So

17:21

it's not quite the same. So that

17:23

kind of basic problem solving. Hey

17:28

folks, Dan here, here's a question for

17:30

you. Do you ever want to share

17:32

anything with our guests? Like we don't

17:34

typically share our guest contact info because

17:37

we haven't cleared that with them, but

17:39

maybe it's worth an experiment with this

17:41

episode. Like if you have something you'd

17:43

like to share with Brian, the barman

17:45

I'm interviewing now, maybe it's a reflection

17:47

or an appreciation or a comment, just

17:49

send it to me at Dan at

17:51

What It's like.com, make sure you sees

17:53

it. I can't promise he'll respond, obviously.

17:56

He's busy. but he'll see it. And

17:58

if it turns out this is something

18:00

that you all really enjoyed doing, we'll

18:02

work out a simpler way to make

18:04

it possible in the future. But for

18:06

now, let's get back to it. I

18:08

wanted to ask you, I mean, you've

18:10

spent your whole career around alcohol. How

18:12

has it changed your perception of alcohol?

18:15

Well, it pays my mortgage. It's that.

18:17

As I mentioned, I drank an awful

18:19

lot when I was a kid. I

18:21

would say my 20s. Just because it

18:23

was easy, it's there, you know, it's

18:25

great fun and all look at me,

18:27

aren't I great? And I spent about

18:29

two years working in this cocktail bar,

18:31

which was just full of lads, you

18:34

know, a lot of my kizmo, a

18:36

lot of dudes running around, do flare

18:38

bar tenders and all that jazz, and

18:40

we were encouraged to drink. You'd be

18:42

encouraged to give shots to any pretty

18:44

girl comes to the bear, you don't

18:46

charge them for shots, give them a

18:48

shot of some. There's a room full

18:51

of pretty girls, you'll have a room

18:53

full of lads fair enough before long.

18:55

So I spent those two years blind

18:57

drunk, and it just became an awful

18:59

habit. The next couple of bars I

19:01

worked in after that, the boss didn't

19:03

mind drinking. I randomly, and I mean

19:05

randomly found myself living in Cyprus, and

19:07

cheese I was drinking about a bottle

19:10

of rum a day in the end

19:12

of that bar. Oh God, it wasn't

19:14

Picardy, but it was a local variant

19:16

on the theme of cheap white rum.

19:18

But shit, the badman, I was drinking

19:20

a bottle of that a day. And

19:22

then, the various adventures and random ports

19:24

of call in various other spots, I

19:26

found myself in Dublin where you cannot

19:29

drink when you're working. Oh, is that

19:31

right? Yes, it is very much so.

19:33

Huh. You know, if the bossman saw

19:35

you drinking when you're working, you wouldn't

19:37

be long working there. I had no

19:39

idea. Yeah, now I know there are

19:41

some places where you know the barman

19:43

might have a like a half a

19:46

glass of beer later on when it's

19:48

you know after it's too busy or

19:50

maybe a little whiskey on his break

19:52

or a point on his break. whatever,

19:54

but it's not the kind of thing

19:56

where you're serving away and you've got

19:58

your drink on the side, you're constantly

20:00

sipping out of, you know, it's not

20:02

that kind of, you can't be at

20:05

that. Because you're dealing with cash as

20:07

well, you know, and that's important. Plus

20:09

you're dealing with people, it's very hard

20:11

to refuse somebody when you're half cut

20:13

yourself. So if people offer to buy

20:15

you a drink, I'll always go to

20:17

a joke first and say no, no,

20:19

but I'll, but I'll take the cash.

20:21

Or else I'll say, yeah, but I'll

20:24

have it left or work. We're lucky

20:26

enough where we work that the guy

20:28

that owns the pub allows us, we've

20:30

like a staff price button for booze,

20:32

so we can have a drink after

20:34

work, we don't have to pay full

20:36

price for it. So when a punter

20:38

comes up and asks, you know, can

20:40

I buy you a drink, Paul? And

20:43

I go, yeah, yeah, not bring up

20:45

a staff point or whatever it is,

20:47

and, you know, you know, it's on

20:49

a, I mean the point in Dublin

20:51

now is not going to nearly 8

20:53

euros. So I'm not taking 8 euros

20:55

off a go just because I thought

20:57

I'm a joke when all you really

21:00

wanted to do was give me a

21:02

2 euro coin, you know. So I'll

21:04

just take a 1 drink and I

21:06

have it afterwards. Sometimes I don't even

21:08

have it, you know, I just take

21:10

for it and then I forget about

21:12

it and whatever. Because I don't feel,

21:14

I suppose the fun and booze is

21:16

kind of gone from me, but I

21:19

like the taste of drinking anymore, you

21:21

know. I very rarely have more than

21:23

three or four drinks any time I

21:25

go out. I wanted to talk to

21:27

you about just dealing with people when

21:29

they're drunk. How have you learned to

21:31

handle those situations? Oh, delicately. Yeah. Well,

21:33

you know, so the cliche of a

21:35

room full of drunken people, it isn't

21:38

that bad. If you walk into my

21:40

bar and you've already had a couple

21:42

of points, I probably won't serve you.

21:44

Really? A hundred percent. How do you

21:46

know when someone has kind of passed

21:48

the line? How do I know? May

21:50

I guess 35 years will educate you

21:52

on your instinct? Do you drive down?

21:55

You're driving along in your car and

21:57

it's not a busy road and the

21:59

car in front is weaving ever so

22:01

slightly. Hardly enough that you notice, but

22:03

you've noticed it. You just ease off

22:05

and let him move ahead of you.

22:07

You know, you might not even notice

22:09

you've done it, but you've done it.

22:11

That's a great analogy. Yeah. What do

22:14

you think it is that you're noticing

22:16

about people? The way they move, the

22:18

way they're interacting with everything around them.

22:20

The fellow who walks up to the

22:22

door and yanks at the open, and

22:24

storms in like he's, you know, the

22:26

CEO of a company who's coming in

22:28

to give out to his underlings, you

22:30

know, hang on a second here, captain,

22:33

this is my bar, you know, or

22:35

the fellow who walks in and lets

22:37

the door close on his girlfriend or

22:39

his wife. Right. I've got that fellow

22:41

pegged, you know, in my mind, I've

22:43

got the little notepad out marking his

22:45

cards. Little things, it's just a little

22:47

thing, you don't even notice, you're noticing,

22:49

you're noticing, but you do, but you

22:52

do, but you do, you do, you

22:54

do, you do, you do, you do,

22:56

you do, you do, you do, you

22:58

do, you do, you do, you do,

23:00

you do, you do, you do, you

23:02

do, you, you do, you do, you

23:04

do, you do, you do, you know,

23:06

you know, you know, you know, and,

23:09

and, When Brian does spot someone who's

23:11

had too much, he's become expert at

23:13

charming them out the door with them

23:15

barely even realizing it. There's a chapter

23:17

that I know. I won't mention his

23:19

name. He won't listen to this, but

23:21

I won't mention his name. Tommy. Tommy

23:23

comes into the pub last week and

23:25

he's absolutely ossified. He's full of points.

23:28

He's a barman, works around the corner.

23:30

Man of a certain age. And I'm

23:32

thinking, oh God, look at the state

23:34

of the state of Tommy. And she's

23:36

one of these men when he's drunk.

23:38

He just looks like he's focusing so

23:40

hard on everything around him. But all

23:42

he's doing is just trying to remain

23:44

upright. And he stands in front of

23:47

a wall staring at this wall for

23:49

a good 40-50 seconds. And you're just

23:51

standing there looking at it. Now, nobody's

23:53

trying to, he's trying to focus himself

23:55

to walk up to the bar. I

23:57

know what's coming. But as he's standing

23:59

there, I realize, he's taking out his

24:01

cigarettes. and he's trying to light one

24:04

of his cigarettes inside at the end

24:06

of the bar facing a wall. He's

24:08

no idea where he is and it's

24:10

illegal to smoke cigarettes in Ireland in

24:12

a point in a pub. So he's

24:14

standing out trying to light a cigarette.

24:16

but he's got the wrong end of

24:18

his cigarette lighter. So I just wander

24:20

over to him and put my arm

24:23

around and like turn the cigarette lighter

24:25

around. He sees the spark, looks at

24:27

me, I take the cigarette and I

24:29

lead him out the door like you

24:31

lead a horse with a sugar cube.

24:33

I lead him out the door with

24:35

a sugar cube. I lead him out

24:37

the door with his cigarette. He gets

24:39

outside. I pat him on the shoulder

24:42

and said Tommy I'll see you tomorrow.

24:44

I'll see you tomorrow. I'll see you

24:46

tomorrow. I'll see you tomorrow. How often

24:48

do you have to cut someone off

24:50

or deny them what they ask for?

24:52

Like every shift? Yeah, maybe every four

24:54

out of five shifts. I will kind

24:56

of have to listen here, chief. I

24:58

think you've had enough. And how do

25:01

people respond to that? Are most people

25:03

sort of quiet and accepting of it

25:05

or do you get blow-hards? You do

25:07

get a lot of people who don't

25:09

take it. Well, what do you mean

25:11

by that? And whose decision is that?

25:13

It's my decision, buddy. I'm the the

25:15

barerman. But you're only just a hoodie

25:18

barman. What would you know about it?

25:20

You're thinking, well, you're just answering your

25:22

own questions here, Captain. So, you know,

25:24

you're not going to get a drink.

25:26

Have a bit of dignity, Chief. Stand

25:28

up and walk out the door. You

25:30

can come back tomorrow. Good night. Take

25:32

care of my forehead. You know, I've

25:34

a little scare of my forehead. I

25:37

refuse a fellow once in a room.

25:39

He had one of the balls in

25:41

his hand. And he lashed my forehead,

25:43

yeah. Oh. He was standing about two

25:45

meters from me when I said to

25:47

him, look, you know, you know, enough

25:49

enough, mate. He just sort of pitched

25:51

it and clocked me in the head

25:53

and I landed straight back down on

25:56

my back. Yikes. Does that kind of

25:58

thing happen regularly? Like, how often do

26:00

you feel like you're physically at risk?

26:02

So I'm thirty odd years behind a

26:04

bar. I've been hit maybe four or

26:06

five times in those 30 years. You

26:08

know, I've had one fill it through

26:10

a dog at me once. Through a

26:13

what? He truly, he had a little

26:15

dog. This little old dog. I've never

26:17

heard of someone throwing their dog as

26:19

a projectile. This little old man and

26:21

he had a tiny little dog and

26:23

the smell of the dog was unholy.

26:25

And your man was absolutely afloat to

26:27

the back teeth with points. So I

26:29

said to him, look, you've had enough

26:32

now horse, you know, maybe he'd wander

26:34

off and come back or something anyway

26:36

and he was okay. The teeth's rattled

26:38

around it. You can to me. He

26:40

threw his dog at me. I mean

26:42

I caught the dog to be fair.

26:44

Oh, it's smelt like wet carpet and

26:46

socks and stuff and blah. There. Bartending

26:48

can be a dirty job. Brian's had

26:51

to clean up situations that would make

26:53

most people quit on the spot. There's

26:55

a lot of stairs in my pub.

26:57

It's a pub made of stairs, really.

26:59

So I'm being the longest serving person

27:01

in that bar by quite some time.

27:03

And I suppose when you're in a

27:05

bar long enough, nothing surprises you know.

27:07

If something truly extraordinary happened, you might...

27:10

That's a new occurrence. Hmm. And then

27:12

you just deal with it, you know.

27:14

So this fellow once was coming down

27:16

the stairs in front of the main

27:18

bar and he was acting the maggot

27:20

and he was trying to walk down

27:22

the stairs backwards showing off to somebody.

27:24

He missed a step and he fell

27:27

about ten steps down onto a concrete

27:29

granite floor and opened his head up

27:31

like a watermelon. Like there was a

27:33

splat. So all the other kids behind

27:35

the bar freaked the bar freaked out.

27:37

And one young fell to his knees

27:39

and vomited on the floor in front

27:41

of everybody. So now I've got a

27:43

bit of boxing, this kind of truly

27:46

heroic individual inside of his own head,

27:48

in the narrative that he built up

27:50

around himself. This man was a legend.

27:52

Anyway, this fella fell down the stairs

27:54

and smashed his head open so that

27:56

young fell to his knees and vomited

27:58

on the floor in front of everybody.

28:00

So now I've got three young girls

28:02

crying. My barman is on the floor,

28:05

vomiting onto this guy's pool of blood.

28:07

And my first thought was, well for

28:09

a full-time who's cleaning up a ball

28:11

of that fucking mess. Oh, that's gonna

28:13

be me, isn't it? An ambulance said,

28:15

it was a paramedic in the pub

28:17

drinking. She comes over, one guy'd come

28:19

over and goes, you have to move

28:22

him, you have to turn him on

28:24

his side. Like the man's bleeding profusey

28:26

from the back of his head, we're

28:28

not moving him. Anyway, this woman comes

28:30

over, we fix him up. But I'm

28:32

down on my hands and knees then

28:34

scrubbing this man's blood and bits of

28:36

brain and bits of bone and bits

28:38

of brain. This other geezers, his lunch

28:41

is all over the floor and there

28:43

I am in my hands and my

28:45

knees and my nice freshly iron white

28:47

shirt. You know, cleaning all this up

28:49

with a nail brush, you know. It's

28:51

a glamorous job, isn't it? And I'm

28:53

looking at Tom Cruise in cocktail thinking

28:55

that's what I want to be doing.

28:57

Getting the glad eye of every female

29:00

in the room, you know? Nope, here

29:02

I am, on the floor, mop and

29:04

up blood. Yeah, beloved, thanks. Thanks God.

29:06

So Brian, we always end our episodes

29:08

with a quick lightning round of questions.

29:10

Here we go. What is a word

29:12

or phrase that only someone from your

29:14

profession would be likely to know? And

29:16

what does it mean? Have you ever

29:19

heard of a woman's revenge? A woman's

29:21

revenge, no. It's a shot. It's a

29:23

shot. It's a shot. It's not a

29:25

real shot. You give it to somebody

29:27

that would be annoying you, you know.

29:29

Have a shot, a done a shot.

29:31

Okay, you'll do a shot if you

29:33

do a shot. And you give them

29:36

a shot of cordial, lime cordial or

29:38

something, with a shot of balies. You

29:40

put the balies in your mouth, you

29:42

throw the cordial in top of it,

29:44

and it just curdles instantly. It's honest

29:46

to God, I don't know what it

29:48

might taste like, but I can imagine

29:50

it tastes like an unused condom in

29:52

your mouth. Or maybe a big mouthful

29:55

of snotter, so it's gross. Ugh. That

29:57

is disgusting. And so that's a way

29:59

that a woman that is receiving... wanted

30:01

attention can get revenge that's the idea?

30:03

That's what yeah that's what I call

30:05

from. What is a sound specific

30:07

to your profession that you're likely

30:09

to hear? Breaking glass. Mmm that's

30:12

a good one. Do you know what? My fellow

30:14

said this to me years ago if you

30:16

were looking for a barman, break a

30:18

glass in I mean you could be anywhere. You

30:20

could be watching the Super Bowl in

30:22

wherever. You drop a point glass on

30:24

the floor and it breaks and you

30:26

look at the crowd and you'll see

30:28

randomly these little... Heads will pop up,

30:31

like a little mere cat, you know?

30:33

Little prairie dogs, dude. It's like a

30:35

head been dragged up out of the

30:37

crowd by his eyebrows. So it's just

30:39

like a Pavlovian response, like when you

30:42

hear that sound. That's exactly

30:44

what it is. All my life. Anywhere

30:46

in the world, I'm in a supermarket

30:48

and somebody drops something. My first thought

30:50

is, where's the brush and pat, you

30:52

know? But the barman's job is

30:54

35% cleaning anyway at the best of the

30:57

best of times. What I love

30:59

about my job and my favourite

31:01

part of it would be, let's

31:03

say, Friday night, about 8

31:06

o'clock in the evening, I have

31:08

a load of people in front

31:10

of me. They all want

31:12

points. They all know how to order.

31:14

They all know how to cue

31:16

correctly. They are already with

31:18

their payment in front of

31:21

them. And I've got no

31:23

other barman beside me.

31:25

And I am flat out. I felt

31:27

it once described it to me as almost

31:29

looking like I'm operating them like a musical

31:32

instrument, just up and down, pine glasses, beer

31:34

pouring, there's ice going into the air, into

31:36

a glass, there's a piece of lemon going

31:38

over my shoulder, into a glass. When you

31:41

get into that flow, those couple of hours

31:43

in the middle of your shift, let's say

31:45

everyone else, just breaks are going on, and

31:47

you're just there on the bar, on your

31:49

own. It doesn't happen that often, but when

31:51

it does, it's such a thrill, it's such

31:53

a thrill, to get through so much work, to

31:55

get through so much work, and to

31:58

enjoy it, you know. It's

32:00

interesting that you're highlighting a time

32:02

when you're at your capacity, you

32:05

know, it's not the calm time

32:07

when you're just chatting with some

32:09

charming patron, it's the time when

32:12

you're kind of at the limit

32:14

of what you can do. Oh,

32:16

absolutely. Flat out, like a lizard

32:19

on a rock. That, and then,

32:21

I suppose I wouldn't be that

32:23

typical, because we've a lot of

32:26

brass in our public needs polishing

32:28

and every now and again. We've

32:30

got an old-fashioned hand pump, you

32:33

know. And the top of that's

32:35

brass, so I like to shine

32:37

that little knob. Why? Because it

32:40

makes me happy. When I shine

32:42

the handles, the drawers behind the

32:44

bar and they're made of brass,

32:47

when I shine them and they

32:49

look shiny, it makes me happy.

32:51

And they're the little things. You

32:54

know? And I don't, it wouldn't

32:56

bother me at all that the

32:58

owner comes in and doesn't see

33:01

the fact that these little details

33:03

are done. He sees the big

33:05

picture and everything's working out. Whereas

33:08

I walk into your pub. But

33:10

the metal hasn't been polished? I

33:12

think, oh, you're not really taking

33:15

this as seriously as you can.

33:17

Brian Wynne is a barman in

33:19

Dublin. He's been doing it for

33:22

30 plus years. Brian is so

33:24

clearly a master of the job

33:26

and so clearly thrives doing it.

33:29

It made me wonder why? How

33:31

do we account for the fit?

33:33

of a person and a job

33:36

like this. Here's what I was

33:38

thinking about. What if there are

33:40

three levels of work? Level one

33:43

is just the basics of the

33:45

job. To be a barman you

33:47

got to pour drinks, take money,

33:50

change cakes, clean up, deal with

33:52

drunks. A lot of people can

33:54

get stuck in level one. The

33:57

job is the job. It stays

33:59

the job. Versus level two is

34:01

about redefining the job. So in

34:04

Bryan's hands, he starts to take

34:06

ownership over not just the dispensing.

34:08

drinks, but how it feels to

34:11

be in his pub. And that

34:13

brings out his performer instincts. He's

34:15

funny. He's attentive. He's charming. He

34:18

is the world champion of crack.

34:20

He makes you want to come

34:22

back. And that's good news for

34:25

him and for the pub. And

34:27

level three is really about savoring.

34:29

I thought it was so beautiful

34:32

when he talked at the end

34:34

about polishing the brass beer pumps.

34:36

That's not a demand of the

34:39

job. I mean, probably no one

34:41

but him even notices, not even

34:43

the owner. That's pride at work.

34:46

Remember the Christmas tree farmer a

34:48

while back and how he hand

34:51

shears every tree on the lot?

34:53

In work like that, you've achieved

34:55

such mastery that you start to

34:58

cherish the little details. You're measuring

35:00

yourself against your own standards. And

35:02

that's where Brian is. Keeping the

35:05

beer flowing. sparking conversations among strangers,

35:07

cleaning up nasty spills and broken

35:09

glass, and making your Pava place

35:12

with good crack. Folks, that's what

35:14

it's like, to be a barman.

35:16

A shout out to recent Apple

35:19

podcast reviewers, Go Atomic Adventures, Dog

35:21

Father 05, Happy Ten Five Three

35:23

One, Be Cox0424, Inteendo, and LRE

35:26

reviews. Special thanks to Johnny Campbell

35:28

for introducing us to Brian. Thank

35:30

you so much. This episode was

35:33

produced by Matt Purdy. I'm Dan

35:35

Heath. See you next time.