0:00

If Pauline Edwards does her job

0:02

right, you probably won't notice her work

0:04

at all. She says a

0:06

good camera operators work. It's

0:08

invisible, you know, like you're not

0:10

saying, oh, that camera move is

0:13

awesome. You know, you're just so

0:15

into the story that

0:17

you don't notice the operating at

0:19

all. In

0:22

television and film production, there's a

0:24

role called camera operator. Their job

0:26

is to run the cameras.

0:28

They literally frame what you see

0:30

on screen with guidance from the

0:32

director and the director of photography.

0:35

And it's not just about what's in the

0:37

frame, it's about what shouldn't be in the

0:39

frame. Like if a sound

0:41

person has the boom mic too low and

0:44

it's visible, the camera operator is the one

0:46

to call that out. But they

0:48

have to be a little judicious. How

0:50

often do you have to kind of pause

0:52

the action or, you know, speak up and

0:54

say, hey, I think we should take that

0:56

again? Is that rare or does it happen

0:58

almost every day? I try

1:00

not to pause that, you know what I mean? It's

1:02

like, you don't want to be like, hey, I

1:04

felt a bump. Or you know what I mean? Hey,

1:06

George Clooney, stop what you're doing. Yeah,

1:08

someone is pouring their heart out and they're

1:11

crying, you're like, stop. You know, I- This

1:13

isn't working. Like,

1:15

you know, I felt a breeze or, you know what I

1:17

mean? I'm

1:27

Dan Heath and this is What It's Like

1:29

to Be. In every episode,

1:31

we walk in the shoes of somebody

1:33

from a different profession. A

1:36

hair stylist, a welder, a criminal defense attorney.

1:38

We want to know, what do they do

1:40

all day at work? Today,

1:42

we'll be talking with Pauline Edwards

1:45

about what it's like to be a

1:47

camera operator. We'll learn the ins and

1:49

outs of working on a reality TV

1:51

show, whether there are as

1:53

many egomaniacs in Hollywood as we'd

1:55

think, and what's the trickiest

1:58

move for a camera operator to make? make.

2:01

Stay with us. Hey,

2:06

I'm Zachary Crockett, host of a podcast

2:08

called the economics of everyday things. Each

2:13

week we zero in on one thing and

2:16

ask, what's the deal with that? Things

2:18

like used hotel soaps, the

2:20

song My Sharona, or weirder

2:23

yet. How many times you get

2:25

to meet the world's foremost expert on dinosaur vomit?

2:28

It's truly an honor. Check

2:31

out the economics of everyday things.

2:33

It's from the Freakonomics Radio Network. Near

2:38

the beginning of my conversation with Pauline, we

2:40

hit some technical issues with the recording, which

2:43

actually made her feel right at home. This

2:45

is exactly what happens on set. We're

2:50

getting a taste of life, aren't we? I'm

2:53

getting it. I feel like I'm on set right now. It

2:57

happens all the time. You can prepare

3:00

as much as you want and then

3:02

something will go wrong. And then when

3:04

it goes wrong, then you're like, everybody's

3:07

looking at you like, is it working yet? And you're

3:09

like trying to like figure it

3:11

out on the fly. You know what I mean?

3:13

Because now everybody's with the actors there. You're like,

3:15

oh, no, this was working like two seconds ago.

3:18

And then the actor shows up and you're like,

3:20

it's not working now. I mean, honestly, like I

3:23

visited an indie film set years

3:25

ago and it was just astonishing how much

3:27

time was spent with like a bunch of

3:29

people just standing around and then like some

3:31

small set of people solving some problem that

3:33

had just popped up with a light or

3:35

something with the set or is

3:38

that what it's like? Yeah,

3:40

the people that work all the

3:42

time are able to

3:44

solve problems quickly. You know what

3:47

I'm saying? Like something is always

3:49

going to happen and you

3:51

have to be able to solve that problem.

3:53

And that really comes with experience because

3:55

if I'm working on a

3:58

show with a camera. and the camera stops

4:00

working and that's never happened to me before,

4:02

then I'm just going to be frazzled, you

4:04

know what I mean? But if it's happened

4:06

before, then you kind of know how to

4:08

handle that situation. And you know, you're like,

4:10

oh, this happened to me on my last

4:12

show. I mean, you know, and then you

4:14

look like the hero, because

4:16

you just solve that problem super fast. So

4:19

on a set, the director of photography or

4:21

DP is the head of everything

4:23

to do with cameras, among other things. And

4:26

then you have the camera operators like

4:28

Pauline. And the first AC,

4:30

first assistant camera, who keeps the

4:32

camera in focus. And there's

4:34

a second AC who's in charge of the

4:36

slate. That's the black and white handheld board

4:38

with the little hinged piece on top that

4:40

you clap down. And then

4:43

you have the loader. And now,

4:45

most of the time, people are kind

4:47

of working with digital cameras now, but

4:49

people still work with film

4:51

cameras. And I used to be

4:53

a loader. And when you're a

4:55

loader, you're basically loading film. It's

4:58

still called a loader, but

5:00

now you're working with digital

5:02

media. But the name's still

5:05

stuck. Most of the time,

5:07

the loader is the person that's in

5:09

charge of everything you shot in your

5:11

inventory and stuff like that. It's

5:14

just absolutely stunning how much

5:16

specialization there is in Hollywood.

5:18

I guess anybody who's ever watched the

5:20

credit sequence to a blockbuster movie can appreciate

5:22

just, I mean, there are hundreds and

5:24

hundreds and hundreds. I mean, there's somebody

5:26

called a loader. You

5:29

get used to it as you go along, but

5:32

there's so many loaders and

5:34

second ACs and

5:36

then best boys and key grips.

5:38

Yeah, there's so many names for

5:40

everybody, like hammers. And it's a lot

5:43

to keep in your head at all

5:45

times. Are

5:47

you typically using a handheld camera

5:49

or something on a tripod? That

5:52

kind of depends on the show. And

5:55

when I work in unscripted, like in reality

5:57

world, I'm almost 100% handheld. Because

6:00

you've got to be able to just go with the flow. Correct.

6:03

But there's times where you're on sticks, it just,

6:05

you know. Sticks is what? Is that

6:07

tripod? Sticks is a tripod, yeah.

6:09

Okay. So, sometimes you're on sticks,

6:11

sometimes you're on a ped, which

6:14

is like a pedestal camera. And

6:16

those are mostly stage shows. Like

6:18

if you're doing a talk show

6:20

or if you're doing a

6:23

game show. Hmm. Those are

6:25

like the big ones that are on wheels that

6:27

you see? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

6:29

Okay, okay. And then on

6:31

scripted shows, you might be

6:33

on a dolly a lot more. Or a

6:36

techno crane, which is like a

6:38

telescoping arm that can either go

6:40

super high up or low or

6:43

can push in pretty far. And

6:47

then you remotely operate that. The

6:49

camera operator is the audience's eye. And

6:52

occasionally, the audience sees something

6:54

they shouldn't. For example.

6:57

Game of Thrones with the whole thing about

6:59

the coffee cup. Oh, yeah, the

7:02

Starbucks thing, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

7:04

So like if you're watching that in a movie theater,

7:06

you don't have time to pull up. Yeah, you'd never catch that,

7:08

yeah. You could just be like, did I see? But now it's like

7:10

everybody can dissect to see. There's a billion

7:12

people on the internet with too much time

7:14

on their hands. Exactly, they're breaking down everything.

7:17

So it's like, oh my God. And so

7:19

would that, like just to run with that

7:21

case, like would that have been on your

7:23

conscience as a camera operator? If

7:25

you were behind that shot, yeah, OK. Yeah.

7:29

Because you're kind of like the last line of

7:31

defense in some ways. Yeah, but you

7:33

know, there's a lot of things that can

7:35

it might be like you're getting ready to

7:37

shoot or you've shot that scene

7:40

and then they're like, keep

7:42

rolling. We're going to go again. But then

7:44

everybody runs in, you know, like the assistants

7:46

and people are fixing the hair and people

7:48

are making a wardrobe right. And maybe someone

7:50

gives that person a coffee cup and they're

7:53

drinking it. And then they just, oh, let

7:55

me put it like behind my chair because

7:57

they did. You know what I mean? And

7:59

you're. People came to see you're

8:02

scanning the whole frame for like,

8:04

does someone move a light? Did

8:06

someone move a chair? Is

8:09

this exactly where it was? You're

8:13

looking at so many things that

8:15

when, and sometimes you

8:17

can't see because there's so

8:19

many people in front

8:22

of the camera that you can't see what's

8:25

going on in the frame. And then when

8:27

they're like, all right, everybody get out of there. And then

8:29

it's like, everybody vanishes. And then they're

8:31

like rolled and you're like, oh, there's a cop.

8:35

I watched this Vanity

8:38

Fair video about camera operator

8:40

moves. And it

8:43

was like they were taking the same scene and

8:45

they were showing, here's what the scene would be

8:47

like if you just locked off the camera and

8:49

pressed record and didn't do anything. And

8:51

then here's what the scene feels like when

8:54

you start moving a little bit, coming close

8:56

to the actors changing the perspective. So sometimes

8:58

you're shooting up, sometimes you're shooting down. And

9:02

it just blew me away because I think a

9:04

lot of what we as, or

9:06

at least speaking for myself as a naive viewer,

9:10

a lot of what I'm feeling as

9:12

tension or emotion in the scene

9:15

is heavily dependent on the way the

9:17

camera's moving that I may not even

9:19

be aware of. Right, right. How

9:22

would you explain the importance of camera

9:24

work to somebody who's never thought about

9:26

that? I think to

9:29

lock in with an actor is

9:31

like an amazing experience.

9:34

It's like if they're getting emotional

9:36

that you just, you're drawn to

9:38

them. So you end up moving,

9:42

even if you weren't supposed to originally,

9:45

you might end up just pushing in a little

9:48

bit. You might push in to get

9:50

closer to their eyes to catch the

9:53

emotion of that. Do

9:55

you ever lose focus on your work because you're caught up

9:57

in a scene? there's

10:00

performances where I am

10:03

crying, you know what I mean? It's

10:05

just like, because it's such a

10:07

strong performance sometimes, or you're laughing,

10:09

or you're just trying not to

10:11

laugh when they're telling

10:14

a joke. Because if you laugh,

10:16

then you're shaking the camera. So

10:18

you're trying to hold

10:20

all that in because, you know,

10:23

crying is, you know, I'm an emotional

10:25

person, I cry over, you know, like

10:27

Hallmark commercials, so. It's

10:30

easy to get wrapped up. And I love that

10:32

though. I love that part of it, when I'm

10:34

not thinking about, I don't want to think about

10:36

the camera when I'm shooting a scene. I don't

10:39

want to think about that at all. I want

10:41

to be connected to what's happening in the frame.

10:44

That's interesting. I wouldn't have guessed that,

10:47

that it's almost like you're trying to

10:49

stay focused on the work and the camera

10:51

as a tool, but the less you think

10:54

about it, maybe the better. Oh

10:56

yeah. And that kind of goes with,

10:58

I mean, it just flows better

11:01

if I'm not worried about how

11:03

we're moving or if we're moving

11:05

in the wrong direction or, you

11:07

know what I mean? Like I'm walking and I'm like,

11:09

oh, I got to make sure that I don't fall

11:11

down these steps. You know, if I have someone that

11:14

I trust that is spotting

11:16

me when I'm walking, I

11:18

don't have to worry about if I'm going to fall down

11:20

these steps. Because I know. Wait, so there are walker spotters

11:22

too? Sometimes, like in

11:25

scripted TV, there's usually someone

11:28

always spotting you. They want to make sure

11:30

you're safe. The times I have to walk

11:32

down steps and there was one shot

11:34

where I was so nervous about walking down these steps

11:36

and I didn't have my

11:38

usual dolly grip with me who, you

11:41

know, you're working with some people

11:43

for months, you know, or

11:46

you work with that person on different shows.

11:49

So you've built up a trust. And

11:51

so one time my guy wasn't there and there

11:53

was like a different person and, you

11:56

know, for me to walk down these steps,

11:58

even though he was there, it took a

12:00

while for me to. trust him that I

12:02

wouldn't fall with this camera. Pauline

12:05

made the transition from camera assistant

12:07

to camera operator on the reality

12:09

TV show America's Next Top Model.

12:12

Reality TV is what you would call

12:14

unscripted TV. There's no script even though

12:16

some of the situations and it might

12:18

seem a little contrived. She

12:20

spent long hours with a camera on

12:22

her shoulder waiting for something to happen.

12:25

You're always shooting some time because

12:28

you never know what's going to happen. So you

12:31

know, you could be shooting someone sleeping and you don't

12:33

think that this is going to make it. And then

12:36

all of a sudden someone runs in and they're yelling

12:38

at that person that's sleeping and you're like, oh, this

12:40

wait, this is turning into something, you know. So you

12:43

always kind of have to be ready. You have

12:46

to anticipate. I worked

12:48

on a show in Mississippi. It was

12:50

called Bring It. It was that

12:52

was one of my main camera

12:56

operating shows. It

12:58

was a dance team

13:01

and we followed their coach and

13:03

their coach had to deal with

13:05

the parents. They had

13:07

to deal with other coaches and arguments

13:10

between teams and this

13:13

coach was very volatile. And so my

13:15

job was to follow her around everywhere.

13:18

And while Pauline is filming,

13:20

an audio mixer pipes audio

13:22

into her headphones and

13:25

might actually help her decide what

13:27

to film just by feeding her

13:29

certain conversations. I have a headphone

13:31

that's attached to the camera and

13:34

the audio mixer is feeding me audio

13:37

from different people that are talking and

13:40

he might determine what he thinks is

13:42

a good story and he'll

13:44

basically turn me in that direction. So if

13:46

like people are talking over to the left

13:48

in the kitchen or people are talking over

13:51

here to the right by

13:53

a car, he'll determine which conversation that

13:55

he feels is a bigger story and

13:57

he'll turn that conversation up and then

14:00

I'll be like, oh wait, what's going

14:02

on over there? And then I'll

14:04

pick up the camera and go over. So

14:07

you're working as a team. Other members

14:09

of a reality TV show team are

14:11

producers who will sometimes try to stir

14:13

the pot if things get slow. One

14:16

time they came back into their room after a

14:18

performance and their room was all messed up and

14:20

you're like, wait, what's going on here? And then

14:23

she's upset so she goes to confront the other

14:25

team and the other team is like, wait, we

14:27

didn't do that. And then there's all this back

14:29

and forth and then it

14:31

turned out that a producer kind of got

14:36

that started, you know, because he wanted

14:38

some story to come up. The producer

14:40

like messed up the room? And

14:44

then so that kind

14:46

of got things going

14:49

because there's always a new producer and

14:51

they're always trying to find on that

14:53

show, they're always trying to find something

14:57

that kind of spark a situation.

14:59

You know what I mean? Maybe nudged it

15:01

in a direction, but he kind of nudged

15:03

it way too far. And it's not all

15:05

the time where they set things

15:07

up like that. But just when you're putting

15:09

together a cast that kind of works with

15:12

casting, you know, who your cast is. So

15:14

you might have someone that likes peanuts and

15:16

then you have someone that doesn't like peanuts and you know what

15:18

I mean? And you put all these people in a room and

15:20

then in the beginning, everyone's getting along.

15:22

But then at the end, it's like, wait, I hate

15:25

peanuts. And you put peanuts

15:27

in my this. And so it's

15:29

always something that's gonna spark

15:31

the conversation. But there's

15:34

a lot of shows that are not

15:36

heavy handed in production like that.

15:41

Hey everybody, Dan here. We

15:43

wanna try something new. Do you

15:45

wanna help us come up with questions for a

15:48

future guest? We're recording

15:50

an interview soon with a

15:52

luxury interior designer. What

15:54

do you wanna know? Tell us your questions.

15:57

Send them to jobs at what

15:59

it's like. Obviously, I can't promise

16:01

we'll use all of them. Usually

16:03

the conversation ends up going in

16:06

some unpredictable direction. But

16:08

I think it'll be fun to try

16:10

this experiment. So send in those questions

16:12

by September 16th, jobsatwhatitslike.com. If you're listening

16:15

to this episode after that date, you'll

16:17

have to find your own interior designer

16:19

to question. Now back to the show. Is

16:25

it ever awkward for you to be kind

16:28

of standing by filming people who are fighting

16:30

or crying or throwing things at each other?

16:33

I mean, for me, you just get

16:36

caught up in it. One time I

16:38

think it was awkward was when

16:40

I followed a cast member. They

16:43

went into the bathroom with another cast member

16:45

to talk. And so I

16:47

followed them in there. And

16:49

she said she didn't want me in there. They were

16:52

in the bathroom. And I'm like, you

16:54

know, sorry, you two are talking. You know what

16:56

I mean? It's like, this is my job. Yeah,

16:58

you don't get to dictate to me where I

17:00

go to do my job. So we're

17:03

filming a show here. So if you do because

17:05

they'll go somewhere to try and get away from

17:07

you, you know, and they'll find like little, oh,

17:09

we're going to go to the bathroom. And it's

17:11

like, no, I'm coming with you. You

17:13

know, I'm coming right in there. Yeah. And

17:16

then you can't let them dictate where you're going

17:18

to go or how you do your job. It

17:21

seems like non-scripted would be just

17:23

so much more difficult for a

17:26

camera operator because it's all improvisational

17:28

and you're moving and it's handheld

17:30

most of the time. Is

17:32

that accurate or are there nuances to

17:34

scripted that make it really difficult as well?

17:37

I wouldn't say it's easier or harder. What

17:40

I would say with unscripted

17:42

is if we're handheld, we're handheld

17:44

for a lot longer than

17:48

we would be in scripted. So that part of

17:50

the job is physically more

17:52

demanding. I asked Pauline

17:55

about the a-hole factor in Hollywood,

17:57

which I'm sure we've all heard

17:59

stories about. I wondered if

18:01

she'd encountered her share of ego maniacs

18:03

or divas over the years. There's

18:05

some directors that are screamers.

18:09

And I think early in my career

18:11

it was hard to, because

18:14

you know, everybody's trying to do, no one comes

18:16

to work and they're like, I

18:18

can't wait to mess up today, you know? So

18:20

it's, you come to work and

18:23

you're trying your best and

18:25

you have someone screaming at you. And

18:28

in the whole scheme of things, it's

18:31

really not that serious. We're making a

18:34

TV show and so it would

18:36

be nice if people could keep their emotions in

18:38

check, but then there are screamers and

18:41

they're yelling at you and you're not getting the

18:43

shot they want you to get. And you're getting

18:46

even more flustered because

18:50

they're screaming, you know, there's

18:52

times where I've left set

18:54

and cried and, you

18:57

know, other camera operators or, you

18:59

know, even when I was a

19:01

camera assistant, like there's other, you know,

19:04

camera assistants that will pull me in

19:06

a room and just kind of pep talk you and

19:08

try and prop you back up and kick you back

19:10

in there. One of the

19:12

shows she's proudest of was one that she

19:14

initially struggled on. It was called

19:17

Snowfall. It was a crime drama on FX

19:19

that started in 2017 and

19:21

ran until 2023. It

19:24

was my first drama, you know,

19:26

and all of a sudden it was

19:29

just hard for me to figure out

19:31

when to discuss things with the actors.

19:33

Like everything just seemed to be moving

19:35

super fast and that all translated into

19:37

the way I was shooting. I was

19:40

apprehensive on what

19:42

I should shoot and it just kind

19:45

of showed. I just wasn't, the energy

19:47

wasn't right and I just hated

19:50

it. I not hated being on the

19:52

show, I just hated the way I

19:55

couldn't grasp it and why all of a

19:57

sudden was something that was, wasn't.

20:00

as hard before all of a

20:02

sudden now it's very difficult. I'm

20:04

having difficulty communicating

20:07

with my dolly grip, I'm having to,

20:09

you know what I mean? I'm just

20:11

having difficulty with everything and also I

20:13

didn't know how to use the wheels

20:16

when they were doing anything remote and I

20:19

was afraid of it. I was just kind of run

20:21

away from, you know, the opportunities would come up and

20:23

I'm like, nope, nope, I don't want to do, because

20:25

I was afraid to fail. And

20:27

I was also afraid to fail for any

20:29

other female

20:32

camera operator that came behind me. I was

20:34

just like, oh, I'm messing it up for

20:36

that, you know, I'm messing it up for

20:38

all black people. It was just, all

20:40

this weight was on my head and

20:43

I just had so much going on

20:46

in my brain that I couldn't focus

20:48

on what was in

20:50

the eyepiece. Pauline

20:52

said that weirdly it was the COVID

20:54

era that helped her bounce back. She

20:57

got involved with this group of camera operators

20:59

who met on Zoom. It

21:01

was a horrible time, but

21:03

at that time, no one

21:05

was working, so you had access to

21:07

all of these camera

21:10

operators that are at the top of

21:12

their game and they

21:14

did like a Zoom where you could

21:17

talk to other camera operators and you could

21:19

listen to other camera operators and I got

21:22

a mentor and I was just able

21:25

to talk everything out and learn

21:27

how to use different equipment and

21:29

it was just such a

21:31

time where you could really just

21:35

breathe. And so

21:38

when we came back from COVID,

21:41

I had a different perspective and

21:44

things slowed down a little bit for me

21:46

and I was able to handle situations

21:49

better and I was

21:51

able to focus more on just

21:54

what was in my frame and

21:57

not all the noise going around around me.

22:00

So Pauline, we always have a lightning

22:02

round of questions on the show. Let

22:04

me pepper you with some questions here.

22:07

What is a word or phrase that

22:09

only someone from your profession would be

22:11

likely to know? And what does it

22:13

mean? I

22:16

would say the wheels. If

22:18

I told a random person, give me the wheels, they'd

22:20

probably come back with maybe a bike wheel or something

22:23

like that. And it's a camera head

22:25

and a head is something that you

22:27

put the camera on when

22:29

it's on a tripod. So

22:32

a regular head that

22:35

the camera is sitting on, you have a pan

22:37

handle and you can pan it left or right

22:39

or up and down to follow

22:41

the action. Wheels.

22:45

There's two wheels. There's one on

22:47

the back and that controls the

22:50

tilt up and down. And

22:52

then there's one on the left side and

22:55

that controls the pan left or

22:57

right. And then your hands

22:59

work together. So

23:03

your hands are doing two separate things

23:05

at the same time to pan and

23:07

tilt the camera. Kind of

23:09

the way I would say is like

23:11

if you're driving a car and one hand

23:13

is if you're driving like a manual car

23:16

and one hand is doing the stick and

23:18

the other hand is doing the steering wheel

23:21

or like like an etch a sketch where

23:23

like one. You know what I mean? Oh,

23:25

that's a great analogy. Yeah, your hands are

23:27

doing different things to try and make an

23:30

image. What's the most insulting

23:32

thing you could say about a camera operator's

23:34

work? Um,

23:37

oh, if someone thought that a

23:40

shot was just so easy, you

23:42

know what I mean? Like they didn't

23:45

I don't know. I guess maybe just take

23:47

for granted the amount of

23:50

work that goes into operating a

23:52

camera. They think it's it's

23:54

easier. You know, well, don't you just have to

23:56

turn it on? Yeah, they think it's easier. A

23:59

lot of times. Sometimes I will put

24:01

a camera on a person's shoulder, like

24:04

a producer or a director. I'll

24:08

put a camera on their shoulder quickly, especially if

24:10

they're like, oh no, shoot the paint drying. Like,

24:12

hey, let me put this 40 pound

24:15

camera on your shoulder and then... You stand

24:17

there for eight hours. You know,

24:19

there's so much. So you have to make

24:21

sure that you're keeping it level so you

24:23

don't want it to be crooked and here,

24:25

you have to make sure that it's in

24:28

focus. You have to make sure that the

24:30

iris is where you need it

24:32

to be. You have to make sure that

24:34

if you're following someone inside, that you change

24:36

the filter. If they run outside, you have

24:38

to zoom. You have to think

24:41

about composition. So there's so much that

24:43

goes into it that when people are

24:45

just like, no, just keep shooting and

24:47

like, well, you know, or

24:50

if you don't have something to sit

24:52

down on and they're sitting in

24:54

your, you know, maybe you're on your knees. It's

24:57

just so much that goes into

24:59

it. What phrase

25:01

or sentence strikes fear in the heart

25:03

of a camera operator? Okay.

25:07

Everybody has their own thing

25:09

for me. I would say it's

25:11

the swingle, which is... So

25:15

you have a single on someone,

25:17

which is a shot kind of, I

25:20

would say from maybe the

25:22

chest up to

25:24

their head. You have a shot of them and

25:26

they're talking and then

25:28

they want you to pan over to the

25:31

other person talking in the scene.

25:33

And you call that a swingle. Yeah, a

25:35

swingle. That's a great word. Because you're swinging

25:37

from one single to the other single.

25:40

So they call it a swingle. I

25:43

always get nervous when it's something like that, even

25:45

though I've read the script a couple times and

25:47

then, you know, you have the

25:49

sides and you're kind of trying to familiarize

25:52

yourself with when is a good

25:54

time to go from this person to that

25:56

person, or you've done that

25:58

shot and you've got... You're like, oh,

26:00

I panned from this person to this person, and

26:03

it was perfect. And then they'll say, OK, now

26:05

let's go. Let's do the, like, basically

26:07

in reverse, not in

26:10

reverse, but like, I have

26:12

person one, actor one, saying this

26:15

line. Now I need the

26:17

reaction or something of actor two. So

26:19

now I'm kind of going the

26:22

opposite of what I just shot. And

26:24

that always kind of makes

26:26

me a little nervous. What

26:29

is it about this work that you love? I

26:33

love telling a story. I

26:36

love everything about my job. I

26:38

love being around the action, the

26:40

actors, the crew. I

26:44

love movies. I'm

26:46

always watching a movie or a

26:48

TV show, because those

26:50

are super cinematic now. TV

26:52

shows are like movies. I

26:55

just love anything where you're telling a

26:57

story. I love to lose myself in

26:59

a story, any story. Does

27:01

your work change the way that you

27:03

watch TV and movies? Sometimes

27:06

if the movie loses my

27:08

attention, then I'll start

27:10

looking for, you know what I mean? Then I'll be like, oh,

27:12

no. I notice, like,

27:15

then you're not into the story

27:17

as much, and then now you're

27:19

picking apart any little thing that

27:21

you see, you know? But for

27:23

the most part, there's so much

27:25

good content

27:27

out there right now. We

27:29

are at a point where we are just,

27:33

television and movies, it's just so

27:35

good. And the quality

27:37

of the work and the shots,

27:40

there's a lot of operators

27:42

that just worked in film that

27:44

are doing TV shows, and it

27:47

shows, and it's just so perfect.

27:49

And I'm always like, oh, I

27:52

can't wait till I'm that good one day.

27:54

You know, it's literally like I'm looking at

27:56

other camera operators like I

27:59

would be looking at movies. stars sometimes.

28:01

I'm like, oh, you worked on this.

28:03

And, you know, like my mentor

28:05

worked on Joker and he, you know

28:07

what I mean? He's done so many

28:09

movies and, you know, Mitch Dubin has

28:11

done so many movies with Steven Spielberg

28:13

and there's the operators that are out

28:15

there. I'm just hoping that one day

28:17

I could be as good

28:19

as them. Pauline

28:25

Edwards is a camera operator.

28:28

Pauline was one of those people you

28:30

just immediately like. After

28:32

we talked, I started thinking about

28:35

the scripted versus unscripted distinction and

28:38

the skill sets that you need for

28:40

those two very different modes of working.

28:42

So for scripted you need perfectionists, high

28:45

levels of performance, lots of

28:47

technical expertise, shameless collaboration

28:50

with others. You're

28:52

the master French horn player

28:54

in the symphony. For unscripted,

28:56

you need more spontaneity. You start the

28:58

day having no idea what you're going

29:00

to shoot. You've got to go with

29:02

the flow. You're

29:05

the saxophonist in the free jazz band.

29:08

Pauline has to perform well in

29:10

both situations. And that

29:12

aspect of her work reminded me of the

29:14

nurse we interviewed a few months ago. When

29:17

someone comes in for a

29:19

scheduled surgery, that's scripted. You

29:22

know what's coming. There's a step-by-step procedure

29:24

and then in the next operating room

29:26

over, there might be someone who was

29:28

in a car crash and needs emergency

29:30

surgery, unscripted. As

29:33

a nurse, you work both. I'm

29:35

curious what you'd say about your own

29:38

job. Are you more scripted or more

29:40

unscripted? Pauline's job

29:42

is both. Making

29:44

sure her gear is ready and

29:46

powered up, scanning the frame for

29:48

stray boom mics or Starbucks cups,

29:51

monitoring fashion models for potential

29:53

meltdowns to shoot, staying calm

29:55

as she executes a perfect

29:58

swingle and using her camera. to

30:00

draw us in imperceptibly to

30:03

exactly the right moments. Folks,

30:05

that's what it's like to be a

30:08

camera operator. A

30:11

shout out to recent Apple

30:13

Podcasts reviewers, Mandy72183, D-M-E-Y-M-C-A,

30:20

DemiMCA as I like to

30:22

say, BlueManBen1, IndieListener,

30:24

Shirar24A1TCA, shout

30:28

out to Marafooz in the Netherlands

30:30

and someone who calls themselves reliable

30:32

and efficient in India, as

30:35

well as Chris Yorston and his brother Mike

30:37

Yorston listening from Chile. If

30:39

you wanna reach out to me, my

30:41

email is danatwhatitslike.com.

30:44

This episode was produced by Matt Purdy.

30:47

I'm Dan Heath, take care.