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Hawaii. Hey

1:02

there Travelers, Kaylee Quo-Co here. Sorry

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to interrupt your music, great artist, BT

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trip about that trip. Book it with that

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trip. Book it with price line. What

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must be possible? Hello

1:44

and welcome to this week's episode of what

1:46

most people think and it is a special, very

1:48

special, in -person episode of this show. I think

1:50

it's the first ever that I've done like

1:52

this. I've sort of been to people's houses, but

1:54

we're in a studio here in Soho, so

1:57

one of the main consequences of that is that

1:59

I paid £9 for my breakfast. That's what's

2:01

the main thing. I've got a skinny latte from

2:03

Gale's. So, yeah. So,

2:05

remortgaged. Yeah. Remortgaged. And I've

2:07

got Tom Walker with me, aka Jonathan Pye. I

2:09

have to say that. Yeah. Part of the

2:11

toy. Legally. Did you have a Ponzi breakfast? Do

2:13

you like a Ponzi breakfast? I didn't have

2:16

a Ponzi breakfast, but I did just consider it.

2:18

I thought an egg's an Benedict.

2:20

Some sort of bowl with... Oh no, I've

2:22

never been there. Halloumi. Do you know

2:24

the ones that they do and Leon and

2:26

stuff like that? Oh, the most... I've

2:28

never understood people who have fruit for bread.

2:30

A bowl of fruit. Yeah. You're going

2:32

to be hungry. It's sort of like the

2:34

Chinese food of nutrition. You're going to be hungry

2:36

again in about an hour. I also said,

2:39

when I said Ponzi, I always never know whether

2:41

that word is OK these days. If

2:43

it means culturally, if fate, and...

2:45

I mean, it probably does have a

2:47

negative connotation. I think you'd get

2:49

away with Ponzi. Yeah. Since Trump got

2:51

in... can get away with fucking

2:53

anything. You can call anyone a retard

2:56

on Twitter now. We can do

2:58

Ponzi breakfasts. Do you

3:00

know, is there a way of buying shares

3:02

in Greggs, right? Because I said a while ago,

3:04

I went on a big broadside, because I like

3:06

to take on the big issues that affect Britain.

3:08

And I had a cup of tea and a

3:10

bacon roll from Pret and it was £7 .10

3:12

and I was fucking out range, right? And

3:15

then I went across to Greggs and

3:17

it was £3 .45. Now, yes, the ingredients

3:19

might not have been quite of the same

3:21

calibre. I reckon Greg's would do a

3:23

better bacon sandwich. More gratifying than

3:25

say that much. Because a bacon

3:27

sandwich is, you don't want anything

3:29

posh, but also I don't want

3:31

a bacon sandwich that's been sat

3:33

in that preheater. All

3:36

their warm food is shit. The Greg's one is

3:38

actually quite artisan. They make it in front of you.

3:40

Do you know what, actually, the one I had

3:42

earlier, the guy literally, when I opened it, it made

3:44

me laugh. The guy literally, it was almost like

3:46

he'd thrown bacon at a bread roll. It was just

3:48

like spat ketchup in like a camel out of

3:50

his nose. But I've noticed Starbucks

3:52

as well. I'm just keeping an eye on prices

3:54

for Britain. I'm like a sort of tabloid newspaper. Keep

3:57

it an eye, keep it cost down. you remember

3:59

the Sun newspaper used to have Captain Cash? Do you

4:01

remember that guy? Yeah. Wouldn't he give

4:03

you like 20... help you, was it that one?

4:05

It's not right in and go, I need, imagine

4:08

writing into the sun for 15 pounds, because

4:10

that's what it was, he never gave you 100

4:12

quid. Especially as the sun was really wealthy

4:14

back then, it was the biggest newspaper. He

4:16

sort of came to life as a superhero whenever

4:19

there was a recession. So he's like the worst

4:21

superhero, at the moment you saw him, you're like,

4:23

oh fuck it. They should bring him back, although

4:25

we're not in a recession at all, are we?

4:27

Or it's not austerity. We're in

4:29

a prolonged per capita recession, which is definitely

4:31

worse. but it's not a recession, so

4:33

the papers don't mention it as much, which

4:35

makes total sense. Starbucks, I've

4:37

also had a couple of pops at Starbucks,

4:39

so I was at Bedford Station and they tried

4:41

to charge me £6 .50 for it. You thought

4:43

you were gonna come on and discuss the

4:45

you? I really did, I did lots of research

4:47

about the local election. We will get to

4:49

that. We will get to that.

4:51

Ham and Cheese Toast is £6 .50. Now, if

4:54

you go into Starbucks, the

4:56

price list, have you seen

4:58

it? The font is like minus

5:00

two, Calibri. Yes, they know they know

5:02

Starbucks has always been shit. I mean

5:04

Starbucks is you're paying the best part

5:06

of a tenner for a pint of

5:08

warm milk in a paper bucket. Yeah,

5:10

that's it. And I'm one of these

5:12

I do want a coffee a day.

5:14

Yeah, it's got to be the equivalent

5:16

of two lines of GAC, you know,

5:18

it's really a really good cup of

5:20

coffee. I fucking hate it when you

5:22

pay sorry gales, but this isn't great.

5:24

But what's that? That's best part of

5:26

a fiver and it's I

5:28

mean, I'd argue it's partly due

5:30

to Labour raising national insurance confusions. That's

5:35

my thing now. In my

5:37

mind, he's like a sitcom

5:39

character, where if anything goes

5:41

wrong, right, even if the broadband drops out,

5:43

I'm like... There was this thing a few

5:45

years ago when Cameron was in, but it

5:47

went on for a while. anything

5:50

that went wrong. It would be hashtag

5:52

Cameron's Britain. Eyeblender toys. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

5:54

But it could be anything. It could

5:56

be, you know, oh, my shopping bag

5:58

broke. Cameron's Britain. It's

6:00

nice to have someone different to blame,

6:02

I think. It is. It's sort of,

6:04

yeah. Yeah. It's slightly weird for me

6:06

because of course, this is the first

6:08

time in my life. Yeah. the

6:11

wanker in charge is someone I voted

6:13

for. That's never happened to before because I've

6:15

been there. You're

6:18

a stalwart at that. I've been at

6:20

a lot since voting for things that people

6:22

end up getting quite upset about. I've

6:24

done a bit of that. I

6:26

mean it's a good point actually to talk

6:28

about the subjects for discussion this week. We

6:30

will talk about the local elections because I

6:32

don't have to listen to grips by a

6:34

local election fever. I literally forgot that and

6:36

I'm supposed to be sort of... know across

6:38

across and I totally forgot they were local.

6:40

Well, I'm semi erect for them So I

6:42

what we want to know is will it

6:45

be Nigel's night? All the all the indications

6:47

suggest he's gonna have to work quite hard

6:49

to not have a good night And we

6:51

also be talking about we touched it last

6:53

week in the patreon only but by mistake

6:55

I thought it was the first hundred days

6:57

of Trump last week Which know way is

6:59

telling because yeah, it felt like it and

7:01

but we're gonna talk I just basically want

7:03

you to get angry really about yeah Yeah,

7:05

you know you got to deliver the breath

7:07

there, but we're gonna talk about it. What

7:10

I want to discuss is him in two

7:12

ways, is his delivery on content. which I

7:14

think has actually been amazing, is delivered moments

7:16

that we're all going to remember for a

7:18

lifetime. Oh, you mean code? I thought you

7:20

meant policy as in content. So yeah, content

7:22

stuff to watch. Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, smashed it. Great,

7:25

it's over. Yeah. We'll get on

7:27

to that. We'll also discuss recent

7:29

developments in the Ukraine negotiations. And

7:32

then in the Patreon only section

7:34

we'll be discussing Irish hip hop rockers.

7:36

I already sound again like a

7:38

tabloid there. Necap, who is worth doing

7:40

a bit of research if you're

7:42

going to listen to that, but basically

7:45

they are an Irish hip -hop trio

7:47

and they've sort of their very

7:49

anti -establishment pro -Irish republicanism nationalism maybe and

7:51

they've been bigging up I think

7:53

Hezbollah and I don't know other but

7:55

I think they said also They

7:58

said something about Kill Your MP. Yes, so they

8:00

all It's helped them down well. Yeah, yeah, I

8:02

think at the moment that you're encouraging murder, does

8:04

it... I don't want to sound like one of

8:06

those... You know those guys in the 60s that

8:08

were scared of the Rolling Stones? Yeah.

8:10

equally, I think there is like a don't,

8:12

you know, encourage murder thing, but we're going

8:14

to discuss them in the Patreon only, and

8:16

yes... Well, you've got the right guy in,

8:18

because Irish hip -hop is... like one of my

8:21

specialities. Well, before we started recording, you spoke

8:23

in a way that I would imagine would

8:25

take them to arms. You're like, show these

8:27

Irish guys. They're Irish, aren't they? They're this

8:29

hip hop. No, but when you sent me

8:31

the list of things we're going to be

8:33

discussing, and it was kneecap, I thought that's

8:35

got to be a spelling error. No, no.

8:38

Knecap as well. I mean, what a great name considering some

8:40

of the features of the Troubles. Brilliant. Well done, lads. New

8:45

patrons right so if you are a patron

8:47

of this show you get this show early

8:49

ad free and with bonus content this week

8:51

it'll be the discussion of our favorite band

8:53

kneecap and you also get a shout out

8:55

where we roast your name so Mark I've

8:57

just got one word of here these are

8:59

always tricky yeah and what I normally do

9:01

is I presume that they work in a

9:03

woke institution where even like in an edge

9:05

lord like me might be problematic but I'm

9:07

gonna say about Mark's for a long time

9:09

you know they talk about the kind of

9:11

the genocide of the name Gary Yeah, I

9:13

mean genocide is possibly a strong word for

9:15

it. But yeah, yeah, so I am think

9:17

marks might be next Yeah mark you don't

9:20

have the marks gone baby mark. You don't

9:22

have baby mark anymore. Do you know yeah

9:24

mark? It's not like like

9:26

Gary's they stopped being called Kerry.

9:28

Where have the marks gone in 1998?

9:30

I knew fucking loads of marks

9:32

at primary school We had loads of

9:34

marks. Yeah, and I was the

9:36

only Tom in my School

9:38

I think and then I went to secondary

9:40

school. I was the only Tom in and

9:42

I thought Tom was a really rare Mmm

9:45

quite specialized name. Yeah, then when I went

9:47

to uni everyone was called fucking Tom. Yeah,

9:49

apparently Tom is one of the least trustworthy

9:51

names Tom A few people are like, oh,

9:53

Tom, it's like a red flag. Like, oh,

9:55

a Tom, no. But yeah, but when you

9:57

say red flag, that's a Gen Z thing.

9:59

And Gen Z, everything is a fucking flag.

10:02

Everything is a red flag. I mean, I

10:04

am on TikTok partly just to keep up

10:06

with what Gen Z are worried about this

10:08

week. Things that include being

10:10

a red flag include like, it's signed

10:12

to being a good father. He's too

10:14

into his kids. into his kids. Red

10:16

flag. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You go, all

10:18

right, you lot as a generation, you're

10:21

gonna die alone, but at least you'll

10:23

have come up with, they like to,

10:25

Gen Z like to come up with

10:27

words for things. theories like ghosting and

10:29

and there's another one called boyfriend air

10:31

this is certain women when they breathe

10:33

the same air as their boyfriend they

10:35

become unhappy no but yeah let's leave

10:38

that one there Ronnie Meldrum Ronnie Meldrum

10:40

starts off sounding like a gangster but

10:42

then Meldrew there's bit of Meldrew in

10:44

there he's an elderly grumpy ex gangster You

10:47

know what I mean? He's an OAP

10:49

ex -conster. Yeah, he never quite made it.

10:51

He isn't in any of the mad Frankie

10:53

Fraser books that. No, no, no, no.

10:55

He was the driver. Yeah, he

10:57

talked up the game a little bit.

10:59

I was crazed, the crazed. it weren't

11:01

for me, they wouldn't have even been

11:03

twins. Yeah. They were. Meldrum.

11:06

Meldrum also sounds like a state of

11:08

mind, doesn't it? Like, across between humdrum and

11:10

melancholy. a victor. Yeah, sort of a

11:12

victor. Oh, he's got a touch of the

11:14

Meldrums. He is afflicted with the Meldrum. I

11:17

am David Domaine. David

11:19

Domaine? David Domaine. So this is an

11:21

anti -Zar super -patron who keeps an eye

11:23

on previous weeks episodes. Long been

11:25

with the podcast since the start, and

11:27

he just picks up on things from that

11:29

we discussed in previous, I think I

11:31

fully established that. So we spoke about... was

11:34

about to make the same point again, and then I thought, shut

11:36

the fuck up, Geoff. The female Pope

11:38

we discussed last week, so there's a

11:40

female Pope Joan in 1980. A Joan

11:42

is a great name for a Pope,

11:44

isn't it? Yeah, it's like sort of

11:46

Pope Doris. I bet she had a

11:48

face on as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

11:51

Fucking hell. Jesus. She's

11:53

full of withering looks, Pope Joan. Do

11:56

we have to? That was her

11:58

catchphrase. She repeatedly disguised herself

12:00

as a man. Oh, so

12:02

they thought she was a man?

12:04

I guess if she was successful, yes.

12:06

Yeah, no, he wasn't in 1855. Yeah,

12:10

855. I don't know, but that's

12:12

so much early morning. Yeah, a

12:14

time, isn't it? We've seen Conclave. I

12:17

haven't, but apparently I need to. The twist in

12:19

the tale is... Oh,

12:21

is it alright? Well, I've just fucking ruined it.

12:23

Sorry, mate. That's okay. We'll take it out of

12:25

the podcast, but you ruined it for me, you know,

12:27

personally. But she disguised herself

12:29

as a man, but it's believed to be

12:31

an apocryphal story, though, about Pope Joan.

12:33

Well, then, you know, then, if I was

12:35

the church, I would cover that up

12:37

as well, if it had happened. Yeah. There's

12:39

just this woman called Joan coming along,

12:42

put on some strides, drew the stars from

12:44

her face, and was the most powerful

12:46

person in Europe. Well, they're quite good at

12:48

covering. Stuff up, aren't they? They'd rather

12:50

have a paedophile than a woman, wouldn't they?

12:52

Any day. Any day of the

12:54

week. There's

12:56

our first clip. Really?

13:00

Rialina, she was on the show last

13:02

week and she made a... David said she

13:04

made an excellent point about polls and

13:06

the mathematics of samples, right? Another

13:08

issue is that polling is expressed

13:10

in terms of percentages across the UK.

13:12

However, our electoral system doesn't work

13:14

on that basis. Besides, getting the

13:16

highest percentage of vote share doesn't

13:19

guarantee that that party wins. In 1951

13:21

and February 1974, general elections saw

13:23

the party with the second highest vote

13:25

share get the most seats. I

13:27

wasn't aware of that. So that is,

13:29

that is fucking, that's a terrible

13:31

mandate, isn't it? That you weren't even

13:34

like marginally the most popular. Yeah,

13:36

but I'm sorry, Rhea, but isn't everything

13:38

she just said really obvious? But

13:40

she was saying it to me

13:42

and I probably needed to hear that.

13:44

I see. But obviously, like, our

13:46

electoral system isn't... no, but

13:49

it's certainly affected labour coming in this time,

13:51

wasn't it? The old mild, what was it

13:53

there? The majority was mile -wide and an inch

13:55

deep, which is sort of like, electorally, it's

13:57

like big bogs, tiny cock. Oh,

13:59

definitely. Labour have got massive balls. And it

14:01

seems like a big mandate because of that. Yeah,

14:03

I mean, yeah, I mean, they're not going

14:05

to last five years, are they? No.

14:09

The thank you and the fuck

14:11

you. I'll do the thank you.

14:13

So I was on tour. I

14:15

did five work in progress shows

14:17

last week. Grimsby, Selby,

14:19

Otley, Whitehaven. Have you ever been

14:22

to Whitehaven? I

14:24

probably have. How was that? It's

14:26

so far away. Where is

14:28

it? It's sort of like

14:30

Carlisle. Carlisle's further north, but this

14:32

is further away emotionally. It's

14:34

harder to get to. Yeah, exactly.

14:37

And the first thing I saw as I drove into

14:39

Whitehaven was just an old man that just flipped me

14:41

the bird. He just went, fuck off. They knew you

14:43

were coming, didn't he? They knew I was coming. They

14:45

could just smell an outsider. And I

14:47

was feeling quite lonely. I'd been on the

14:49

road. probably a day too long and the

14:51

flies in my jeans burst and I was

14:53

like fuck I just there was no shops

14:55

right it should be said otherwise I had

14:57

a nice welcome in Whitehaven and then I

14:59

thought fuck I need some safety pins because

15:01

I've heard you know women in my family

15:03

say these things you need safety pins so

15:05

I don't really know where I just went

15:07

in a petrol station they just had safety

15:09

pins it was like magic. I

15:11

think it's just a whitehaven thing. It's probably

15:14

that was the only shop. They

15:16

don't sell trousers, but most

15:18

shops have got safety pins. Most shops have

15:20

got safety pins. And a stapler, weirdly, in

15:22

a petrol station. But I...

15:24

So then I had to pin... You don't want to get that wrong,

15:26

do you? Well, listen, man.

15:28

I had to... Some people like that.

15:30

Some people get paid for that. I

15:32

mean, we're in Soho. There's MPs that

15:34

have... paid a lot of money for

15:36

that sort of thing. But I had

15:38

to pin the thing. And if there's

15:40

any ladies, right, listening, you're probably presuming,

15:42

for the three women that listened to

15:44

this show, you're

15:47

probably presuming that I wasn't that

15:49

good at pinning it. Three

15:51

attempts. The first one, I pinned it all

15:53

up and it made it worse. It made them more

15:55

open somehow. In the end, I sort of

15:57

had this Vivian Westwood type thing going on. And

16:00

you know what, I felt... felt like

16:02

a really brave soldier and this is

16:04

maybe my my internalised kind of chauvinism

16:06

I guess is that I felt that

16:08

somebody should come and tell me what

16:10

a great boy had been. Wow. Just

16:13

well done. Essentially zipping up

16:15

your trousers. But I'd done

16:17

it. Yeah. I mean this

16:19

is I know I'm admitting my toxicity.

16:21

Red flag. Yeah. Red flag. Definitely flag.

16:23

But I felt that I

16:25

guess, I'm not saying that I felt

16:27

like a woman should come along and

16:29

do it. I'm not saying that would

16:31

have been a sort of, well... It's

16:33

the underlying undercount. Yeah, but I'm admitting

16:35

it. How can we progress without honesty

16:37

and disclosure? But it would have

16:39

been the weirdest groupie shout ever. of

16:42

just like, Jeff wants to, is there anyone in? there

16:44

anyone in? Yeah. Any women that want to go to

16:46

Jeff's room and sort out his flies? Any

16:48

chance you could pin this? And

16:51

they're like, what? No, no, just literally pin my

16:53

jeans. How did you

16:55

go to the, did you have to unclip every time

16:57

you went for a piss? Well, you'd

16:59

think that, no, I just basically broke it every

17:01

time I went for a piss because I forgot.

17:03

Rip, start again. Because I'm a man, you see.

17:06

Have you got to fuck you for

17:08

this week? No, I didn't prepare

17:10

one. That's the

17:12

end of that discussion. No,

17:14

no, listen, we I

17:16

mean, I could always go in there with

17:18

a fuck you. Last

17:21

week, I went up people in retail, but

17:23

then I got a clap back from that.

17:25

I got emails saying that you shouldn't be

17:27

mean to people in retail. Because what I

17:29

was saying, basically, was that you know

17:31

when you go and get a cup of tea, you go, can I have

17:33

a cup of tea? Milk, no sugar, please.

17:35

And they go, so you want tea? Do

17:37

you want milk? So that kind of

17:39

irritates me because I'm nearly 50. But some people

17:41

felt that that was kind of punching down. I

17:44

find it irritating. irritating down. I also

17:46

think you might not be paid huge

17:49

amount and I'm sorry about that and

17:51

all of that and blah blah blah

17:53

but your job is to ask the

17:55

order, remember the order, execute the order

17:57

right so if one of those goes

17:59

and you need to repeat yourself you're

18:01

clearly not in the room and you're

18:03

not giving me and it's not above

18:05

your pay grade to be polite and

18:07

listen. It's like when I'm in a

18:09

pub the thing that really fucks me

18:11

up because I'm a short guy as

18:14

well I'm not the most obvious person

18:16

at the bar to

18:18

serve next, you know what I mean? It's going to

18:20

be the big fella. But it really pisses

18:22

me off when I'm there for 20 minutes and you go,

18:25

you've got to take the order, but

18:27

you've also, as a barman, your job

18:29

is to work out who's next. Yes.

18:31

So it's not that difficult to go,

18:33

right, I'm just going to remember you,

18:35

then you, then you. Yeah. And that

18:37

really... But the thing is, as you

18:39

get angry, do you start to look

18:41

like a shorter man? Like getting all

18:43

crossed. fucking Napoleon. Well,

18:46

look, I was sort of trying to apologize,

18:48

but we've actually doubled down, actually. So not only

18:50

we've taken retail and we've bought in hospitality

18:52

as well. Okay, there you go. The classic double

18:54

down. You know, when they ask, have you

18:56

got any allergies? Yeah. I always, and I've not

18:58

ever had the balls to say it, but

19:00

I get just bad service. Oh, nice. Can you

19:02

imagine what a wanker you'd have to be

19:05

to say that? That is very devil wears product.

19:07

But whenever they say it, I want to

19:09

say it. Yes. But I don't. Say it. OK,

19:12

we're going to start off by

19:14

talking about the local elections. Calm

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20:58

first voting on stuff thing we've done

21:00

for a while. Voting on stuff

21:02

thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. a local voting

21:04

on stuff thing. Local voting on

21:06

stuff. You know that Rishi was still

21:08

Prime Minister less than nine months

21:10

ago. It's mad, isn't it? It's fucking

21:12

mad. Did we fall through a

21:14

wormhole in time to this point? I

21:16

think what's weird about Sunak was

21:19

we all knew that he had to call

21:21

an election within I don't know how long was

21:24

he there a year maybe? It was the

21:26

latest he could have gone was January of this

21:28

year. So we all knew it was coming

21:30

and we all knew pretty much that the Tories

21:32

weren't going to be the next government and

21:34

therefore that sort of last Six

21:36

to eight months. It was just like, right,

21:38

when's it gonna call it? And therefore we'd

21:40

already sort of moved on. We all knew

21:42

that Starmer was gonna be our next Prime

21:45

Minister to a certain extent. And

21:47

therefore it does feel like they've been in longer

21:49

that the problem is is of course It's

21:51

because of the stuff they've done as well that

21:53

feels like they've been involved. Well, it feels never good

21:55

sign if a government feel like they've been in

21:58

three years and it's eight months. But they sort of

22:00

have. The first thing you're going

22:02

to do is cut fuel payments for

22:04

old people. Hit disabled people. Hit the

22:06

farmers. Without any point kind of going,

22:08

but we're also going to sort this,

22:10

this, this and this out. The first

22:12

thing we're going to do is make

22:14

it harder to pay for your bills.

22:17

It feels like an extension of...

22:19

previous 10 years, right? Well,

22:21

the weirdest thing about the Winterfuel, which I've said before

22:23

on this podcast, was that they didn't lay any

22:25

track for it. They kind It was mad. And then

22:27

they went on recess straight away. It was like a

22:29

mic drop. You know you normally mic drop after

22:31

you've done something people like? Yeah. But...

22:34

But I... Everybody, fuck off. I honestly couldn't

22:36

believe that that was essentially their first... That

22:38

was different. And that's the one person. It

22:40

was men all day. And if you'd have

22:42

waited a month and also just like you

22:44

said, prepared the ground and go, look, we're

22:46

going to have to look at winter fuel

22:48

payments. We're going to have to

22:50

change that somehow. But before we do that, the

22:53

first thing we're going to do is

22:55

look at, I don't know, fucking these

22:57

water companies and electricity companies that are,

22:59

you know, screwing us basically and paying

23:01

millions of pounds to their CEOs. everything

23:05

fucking rot and our I mean, you know

23:07

electricity companies bills are tripling our bills are

23:09

tripling and their profits are tripling and you

23:11

know hang on a minute So maybe talk

23:13

about doing something do something about that. Yeah,

23:15

and then go right We're gonna have to

23:17

look at this winter fuel payment thing. Well,

23:19

and also same with like disability benefits. It's

23:21

like all right, okay Sure, sure. There's no

23:23

fucking money and we've got to make some

23:25

savings somewhere, but it really is sort of

23:27

pre -borris Tory kind of you know well

23:30

look personally you know in terms of looking

23:32

at the amount of people off with certain

23:34

I do I personally think but that's my

23:36

I think there's difference between going we need

23:38

to reform this we need to get people

23:40

back to work and we're going to lay

23:42

the ground for that and within the next

23:44

six months we're going to do something about

23:46

this as opposed to going fucking it seems

23:48

like it seems like to work it seems

23:50

very Tory it seems I don't want to

23:52

do it Yeah, it seems like I want

23:54

to do I mean, maybe they fell prey

23:57

to that belief of do the hard things

23:59

early. And I they absolutely

24:01

said this first 12 months.

24:03

Yeah. But what they also, they're

24:05

just politically stupid because you've

24:07

just jizzed your political capital up

24:09

the wall within 48 hours.

24:11

Yeah. Whereas if you'd have done

24:13

it... gently, we might be

24:15

sat here now and you might be going, oh,

24:17

do you know what? They're slightly better than I

24:19

expected. And me going, oh, they're

24:21

just slightly worse than I expected, but

24:23

they're doing all right, whereas actually all

24:25

the goodwill is gone. So you come

24:27

at this from the left. I am

24:29

from the right in terms of like

24:31

the economy, like the national insurance rise,

24:33

what's happened to like small businesses, like

24:36

business sentiment, consumer confidence, millionaires leaving the

24:38

country, you know, like it seems like there's

24:40

a lot of stuff that hasn't and

24:42

gone that well. The inheritance was bad, but

24:44

it's like they took the inheritance and

24:46

then fucking like, you know, bet it on

24:49

a horse. Like a

24:51

mangy disease horse. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

24:53

yeah, yeah. A disgusting putrid

24:55

nag with two legs, not even

24:57

three. Didn't even have balance. I

25:02

guess the question is on Thursday night, will

25:04

the public take the chance to batter Labour?

25:06

I mean, there's lucky for them that there's

25:08

not local elections in Wales or Scotland, right?

25:10

So this is very much an almost a

25:12

home counties thing. I

25:14

don't think people are going to...

25:17

better labour. I think

25:19

people that voted Labour last time,

25:21

I think so many people voted Labour

25:23

at the last general election and

25:25

it was essentially my motivation going, what's

25:27

the best way to get the

25:29

Tories out because they've proved time and

25:31

time again that they're dog shit

25:33

and maybe something else will be better,

25:35

right? So I think people weren't

25:37

voting for Labour or a lot of

25:39

people weren't voting for Labour a year ago,

25:41

they were voting against something, right? People

25:43

aren't going to turn up to do that.

25:46

for a local election, right? So it's

25:48

a different beast as well. I

25:50

don't know if you remember the general

25:52

election which was Theresa May Corbin

25:55

and May thought she had it in

25:57

the fucking bag and then jizzed

25:59

it up the wall. Yes, yes, strong

26:01

and stable. But during the election

26:03

campaign there were the local elections a

26:05

few weeks before the general election

26:07

and Labour got fucking screwed. They performed

26:09

so badly at the local elections

26:11

and it felt like a fate to

26:13

complete that May was going to

26:15

increase her majority by, I don't know,

26:17

20, 30 MPs or something. And

26:20

she came back and she... and Corbyn

26:22

did really fucking well, really well. Well,

26:24

yeah, comparatively speaking. Compared to the way

26:26

they performed three or four weeks before

26:28

at the local elections ago, it feels

26:30

like people were voting completely different parties.

26:32

people could, yeah. If people don't take

26:35

a national view here and they vote

26:37

locally, it might not be that bad.

26:39

I mean, When you say

26:41

that bad, I mean, does that mean you

26:43

don't have sympathy for reform particularly? I'm not

26:45

a reform guy. No, but I think that

26:47

they'll do well, which we'll come onto. But

26:49

I think that for Labour... No, wait, I'm

26:51

sorry, I'm just picking you up on your

26:53

turn of phrase. There you go. I don't

26:55

think it'll be too bad. You think a

26:57

reform clean sweep would not be a good

26:59

thing. Do you know what

27:01

it is? I am a conservative by nature. What

27:03

I would like the conservatives to do is start

27:05

rebuilding. So a reform

27:07

clean sweep wouldn't help that.

27:10

Well, you say that. I wonder

27:12

if a reform clean sweep will

27:15

get rid of Badenok sooner than later,

27:17

because I don't think she's going to

27:19

survive But I don't think they can

27:21

get rid of her yet. Not yet,

27:23

but this will help. And I'm not

27:25

being funny. I mean, what I don't

27:27

give a fuck about the Tories, but

27:29

I do think, I think a healthier,

27:33

stronger, slightly more central

27:35

centrist Tory leader will

27:37

do them well. But

27:39

then it would just be... I

27:42

think a traditional Tory voter is

27:44

more likely to vote Tory again

27:46

because there seems like someone's solid

27:48

in charge and therefore they will

27:50

reform would lose some votes. Once

27:52

the Tory party's got their fucking

27:54

house. I think what will happen

27:56

is, you know, reform will have

27:58

a good night. Tories will have

28:00

a bad one, because a lot

28:02

of this is coming off the

28:04

last time these ones were held,

28:06

and it was 2021. And

28:08

actually Labour had a really bad night in

28:10

2021. It was the night that they lost the

28:12

Hartley -Pulled -By election, and IKEA nearly resigned, how

28:14

different things could have been. But

28:16

this is the thing is, if they don't

28:18

do that badly, my concern with Labour

28:20

is the electoral system might continually fool them

28:23

into thinking that there more well -liked than

28:25

they are so you get this election

28:27

on 34 % returns a massive majority and

28:29

then you get the locals like they go

28:31

well actually we did a lot better

28:33

than toys go yeah but it doesn't mean

28:35

that you're popular no I mean they're

28:37

definitely not popular um yeah no yeah I

28:40

think they're fully aware of how fucking unpopular

28:43

they are. They seem to enjoy it on some

28:45

level. I mean, you look at the It is

28:47

hard, isn't it? Yeah, the by -election in Runcorn.

28:49

I mean, if you wanted, like, a bad metaphor,

28:51

is one of your MPs punching a member of

28:53

the public in the face repeatedly, and

28:55

then once they've done it once,

28:57

going back again and going, yeah,

29:00

you want some more, you go,

29:02

yeah, that is quite an honest

29:04

appraisal of how the public feel.

29:06

What most people think. So Tories,

29:08

all right, we sort of touched

29:10

on it a bit. They were

29:13

1 ,164... Council seats in 37

29:15

councils and of these 100 1 ,182

29:17

are held currently by the conservatives

29:19

That's two -thirds so they could

29:21

really it could feel like they're

29:23

becoming extinct actually and I was

29:26

just thinking with them is Well,

29:28

you know like you prepare your

29:30

speeches for the day afterwards their

29:32

speeches must be like bad really

29:34

bad existential terrible Yeah, yeah, there's

29:36

no good. There's no this is

29:39

definitely not going to be good

29:41

Well, it's part of the play,

29:43

isn't it? If the expectations are

29:45

absolutely terrible, then any little win,

29:47

they can spin it. held

29:50

on to Henley. They'll

29:56

always spin it to be good. You know,

29:58

obviously it's only a year since the election

30:00

when we haven't been able, man. I don't think

30:02

it's, politicians will always fuck it. It might

30:04

not be spinnable. So what would the language

30:06

be? It'll be, it's obviously been a hard

30:08

night. And today, my thoughts are with conservative councillors

30:10

up and down the country have done a

30:12

good job that have paid the price for

30:14

what we've done. Humility, that's all

30:16

they've got. Do you think anybody at

30:19

CCHQ has gone like, just in case

30:21

it goes well, no, Gary. Yeah, don't

30:23

do it. Gary and Mark, okay?

30:25

There's a reason your names are going out of fashion. Get

30:28

back in the cupboard, you silly pricks. I

30:32

mean, we talk about like reform, they're

30:34

standing in every election now. So their

30:36

ground game has got to the point

30:38

where they've... they'll almost certainly be the

30:40

big winners on the night whether that

30:42

means they take control of a council

30:44

or two they'll probably have the most

30:46

games right and probably have the most

30:48

increase in vote share I mean I

30:50

can't can you imagine reform councillors because

30:52

it's let let's be honest they didn't

30:55

really do a huge amount of vetting

30:57

for their fucking MPs right yeah with

30:59

some proper wrong and running and you

31:01

don't really You don't do quite as

31:03

much research into it. It's just a

31:05

fucking counselor, isn't it? Yes, I bet

31:07

there's some they'll have a good night

31:09

and within two months, you know 60

31:11

of them will Well, this is the

31:13

thing and yes and Tyson Farage themselves

31:15

have said this I mean Tyson himself

31:17

had to warn Reform activists to stop

31:19

going on social media late at night

31:21

drunk and saying racist things Yeah, so

31:23

this is a knowledge within the party

31:25

But I suppose it could be interesting

31:28

because if they actually win seats so

31:30

rather than being the sentiment right they

31:32

have to be the policy makers like

31:34

they have to do things in local

31:36

government so they actually because they'll actually

31:38

have to start delivering and that's actually

31:40

much harder than just saying aren't things

31:42

shit yeah okay should we reform it

31:44

yeah and then they have to by

31:46

the time the next election comes around

31:48

they'll have a record locally in places

31:50

might be good but it might not

31:52

be so good I mean I I

31:54

do think that they objectively have the

31:56

best name reform reform well because it's

31:59

a word yeah that you use so

32:01

even if labor go we want to

32:03

reform you know any party will use

32:05

the word reform do you want to

32:07

reform you can't say no to that

32:09

question not wanting things to carry on

32:11

exactly as they are no it is

32:13

a good it's certainly better than UKIP

32:15

or BMP. I'm not suggesting they're the

32:17

same party. The Brexit party, single issue,

32:19

as I've said before, Labour, that sounds

32:21

like hard work. Conservative, that sounds like

32:23

you think everything is That sounds like

32:25

you're boring, but you sound like a

32:27

boring cunt. It was very conservative, small

32:30

C Brexit. That depends on

32:32

where you're coming from. Of course, course.

32:34

Conservative, some things are as they

32:36

are for a reason, Tom. I'm

32:38

trying to think of... Good point. Some

32:41

things are as they are. their

32:43

slogan some things are the way

32:45

they should be conservation that

32:47

comes that's very conservative so you

32:49

know the planet mate and

32:51

the point is when they get

32:53

in it's like they have

32:55

to fucking reform imagine if you

32:57

get you don't reform stuff

32:59

yeah but if you're about the

33:01

beauty of being a council

33:03

or a local it's like no

33:05

one You write to your MP,

33:07

don't you? You don't write to your council. You write

33:09

to the... Well, you do, I suppose, write to the

33:11

council. But if it goes shit,

33:13

it's the MP's fault. And if it

33:15

goes well, you can count. So I

33:17

don't think if you're a councillor, you

33:19

have to do that much. You mean,

33:21

all right, a few potholes and bin

33:23

collection. That's what local elections, most It

33:25

should be, but they often say that

33:28

people vote locally on national issues and

33:30

nationally on local issues. Because people are

33:32

fucking stupid. But see, you know, this

33:34

is the problem. I'm

33:36

coming from an optimistic view. People

33:38

are right, man. They are, but look,

33:40

I want to know what you

33:42

think of this. As a man of

33:44

the left, right, you mentioned... You

33:46

mentioned BNP, right, in the UKIP. So

33:48

you mentioned, where do you see reform? Say

33:50

there's a spectrum to the right of

33:53

the conservatives, and so I would guess that

33:55

you'd put the BNP at the furthest

33:57

right of that. As iterations

33:59

go, I'm sort

34:01

of thinking it goes BNP, UKIP,

34:03

coming in, Brexit

34:05

party, reform Tories. Would you say reform's sitting

34:07

slightly to the right of the Tories?

34:09

Pretty much, but when it comes to populism,

34:11

and it's safe to say they're a

34:13

populist party, right, and the conservatives are certainly

34:16

Have have dabbled that yeah, right

34:18

left and right starts to

34:20

get a little bit sort of

34:23

The wrong sort of term,

34:25

you know, you know, I mean

34:27

because Well, yeah pro nationalization

34:29

now pro well, yeah, but ask

34:31

him tomorrow it fucking it

34:33

depends but when it comes to

34:35

sort of culture war II

34:37

stuff, you know, you could eat

34:39

you could easily argue that

34:41

a lot of reform or even

34:45

not so much Trump, but there's a

34:47

liberal -ness to it in that sort

34:49

of old -school liberal kind of sense.

34:51

Sorry, can I just get a second? So, Tom

34:53

Walker, are you saying reform are quite liberal? Yeah,

34:57

I mean, I think, you know, I

34:59

think they're interesting and I certainly might give

35:01

them my vote. Fuck you. Oh, God,

35:03

please. Don't just clip that out of context.

35:07

Just before we move on to Lib Dems, we should

35:09

discuss the Lib Dems. Do

35:11

we have to? Do you know what it's

35:13

like? You know that sibling rivalry is such

35:15

a visceral thing, but Lib Dems is more

35:17

like... It's like your half -brother, it? Cousin

35:19

rivalry. They might have

35:21

the best night, you know... They

35:23

might have the coolest, funniest leader. They might have...

35:25

I mean, the Lib Dem canvassing knocked on

35:27

my door the other day, and I was like...

35:29

I wasn't voting for them, but I was

35:32

just... Yeah, thank you. Do you think they ever

35:34

get annoyed that they never get chased away? It's

35:37

always like, oh, you know, yeah, that's sort

35:39

of unobjectionable. Yeah They might they might make up

35:41

to be the tough guys are Lib Dem

35:44

scenes like go this guy fucking should've seen the

35:46

dirty look he gave at me as he

35:48

said Thank you very much. I'll have a read

35:50

the leaflet This

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to 40% your first year by

37:27

visiting lifelock.com/ Yeah. apply. Did you

37:29

just do the hype so the tour?

37:31

It starts in September, the main tour. Let's

37:33

give a hype to the big rooms,

37:35

right? The big rooms. Birmingham, Redding,

37:37

Crawley, Leeds, Extra Day in

37:39

London, Bath, Southend, Cardiff, Aldershot, 60

37:41

dates, Tom. Where are you

37:43

playing in London? Leicester Square

37:45

Theatre. Nice. So, know, you put one on sale, you

37:47

sell the next one. Hopefully, we'll

37:50

do a few in London, maybe one

37:52

in South London, eventually. So, those

37:54

are, yeah, some of them are starting

37:56

to get quite full now. We've

37:58

got Extra Dates already, so do go

38:00

on Live Nation there. And obviously,

38:02

got your second series. Second series of

38:04

my podcast called Jonathan Pye, which

38:06

we had to separate. it out into

38:08

two sections. So the final four

38:10

episodes go out on Friday. Very

38:12

happy with it. Yeah, I think the first

38:14

series won awards and stuff. So it won

38:16

the odd award, which is kind of nice.

38:18

And I'm really happy with it. I mean,

38:20

the problem with doing radio is the money

38:22

is dog shit. And it's I mean, it

38:24

was sort of the first year. Yeah,

38:27

I know, I know, which is great. I know,

38:29

but it's insane, isn't it? I mean, the

38:32

amount of listens that this podcast has got and

38:34

I haven't seen any of the bunts. But

38:36

I'm really proud of it as a piece. And

38:38

it's just nice. to you know the pie

38:40

online stuff is me writing a three -minute monologue

38:42

that's sort of here today gone tomorrow it's I

38:44

call it sort of disposable content you're never

38:46

gonna listen to that video about Liz trust -leaving

38:48

ever again why would you yeah but it's nice

38:50

to sit down and kind of write something

38:53

you go I want people to be able to

38:55

listen to this of five or six years

38:57

and 80 % of it that's good deal to

38:59

work as an episode good thing about writing a

39:01

book he's everyone's who are people go I

39:03

really loved your book it's like this little performing

39:05

version of you that just sits there and

39:07

it also does a little dance. It's like a

39:09

chunk of you know... It's like something on

39:11

your shelf that you get, I did that. Whereas

39:14

this podcast here, there's nothing solid. You

39:16

know, you go, oh, that was a good day's

39:18

work. You go, it's not here today, it's tomorrow. particularly

39:20

when all our local election predictions are completely unseen

39:22

by Thursday. No, I know what you mean. A bit

39:24

of legacy stuff. And if you just in a

39:26

nutshell describe the show. So it's, was

39:28

it called? Call Jonathan Pie. Call

39:30

Jonathan Pie. It's like a radio phone

39:32

in, yeah. Yeah. So in the first

39:34

series, Pie, who's obviously Westminster sort

39:36

of reporter, but he was roped in

39:38

last minute to cover this. this phone -in

39:41

show and then that became his

39:43

job and it's nice so that the

39:45

first series was all about him sort

39:47

of getting used to the idea of

39:49

becoming sort of a you know knockoff

39:51

James O 'Brien basically and but in

39:53

this series it's kind of two years

39:55

later and this is his job now

39:57

and sort of the theme of this

40:00

series is him kind of selling

40:02

out really and and how it's fucking

40:04

difficult in this world if you're not

40:06

earning great money hmm to

40:08

stick to your morals, you've got fucking pay

40:10

the bills and he's in this moral dilemma of

40:12

kind of... You should see some of the

40:14

corporate stuff, mate. Yeah, I know. I mean, I

40:16

would literally, if an arms dealer got in

40:18

touch tomorrow, I'd go, yeah. Yeah, as long as

40:20

you just don't stick it on YouTube. Yeah.

40:22

Yeah, no one need no. Or stick it on

40:24

YouTube, as long as other arms dealers go,

40:26

oh, I didn't realise he was available for work

40:28

in this sector. But it's so weird that

40:30

particularly Pi, I don't know if you get this,

40:33

right, but when it first went out on

40:35

the BBC, I got so much shit. for appearing

40:37

on the BBC. I get that

40:39

from the right as well. Yeah, from

40:41

the right and the left. But

40:43

also it was like, you fucking sell

40:45

out. You sell out. And I get

40:47

it when I'm promoting my tour. You

40:49

sell out and you go, do you

40:51

expect me to do my career for

40:53

free? You know, I've got bills to

40:55

pay. And also the idea

40:57

that selling out. to get a sitcom

40:59

on Radio 4. That's

41:01

where the big buzz is. I often say to

41:04

them, please send me a list of the things I'm

41:06

allowed to do in order to pay my mortgage

41:08

and raise my child. All

41:12

right, so Trump's first

41:14

100 days is this

41:16

week, right? So let's

41:18

start with the good

41:21

content, as we said

41:23

earlier. Let's just rattle off

41:25

his hits. Overlof is bussed up.

41:27

Overlof is bussed up. Made me tense. Here's

41:29

one that we forgot. You remember quite early on

41:31

there was a plane crash and he went on

41:34

there and he was for about five minutes he

41:36

was really reverent and then he was like this

41:38

is fucking diversity did this. Yes he made it

41:40

all. That like the first big one where I

41:42

was like he's back he's back he's back yeah

41:44

yeah he blamed on psychopathic asian dwarfs i think

41:46

because we were all thinking it we were all

41:48

thinking it's about time somebody fucking said it he

41:50

said it i mean it was well you know

41:52

was interested about that was even a lot of

41:54

people on the right were like fucking hell jesus

41:56

christ that's quite it's quite out there so that's

41:58

a take i mean hi liberation day you know

42:00

forget what happened afterwards and we'll just this is

42:02

not about policy Well, it's

42:04

never about policy. Just in terms

42:06

of something to look forward to, you

42:09

know, it sort of delivered. It had the

42:11

funny game show element to it. It was hilarious

42:13

in some ways that there were islands that

42:16

were uninhabited by humans that had tariffs on them.

42:18

Funny. Yeah. It delivered the laughs. OK,

42:20

so let's just say that the first

42:22

100 days have been a lot of

42:24

lots. A lot of lols. Yeah. think

42:26

people that were beneficiaries of USAID might

42:28

disagree. Yeah. Essentially, there have been lots.

42:31

And those kids with cancer that he deported, even

42:33

though they're US citizens, I'm sure they've probably got

42:35

something say. But we're talking about the content. But

42:37

they're not going to be with us for long.

42:39

That wasn't good content. No, it wasn't. You're right.

42:41

No, no, no. Sorry,

42:44

yes. Yeah. But so

42:46

there are people, however, that might not be

42:48

quite so happy. Let's

42:50

start with Ukraine. Now,

42:52

there's been a lot of Trump leaning

42:54

towards Russia. It hasn't really

42:56

said much critical about them. But did

42:58

you see last week when there

43:00

was an attack on Kyiv? And Trump

43:02

said, Vladimir, stop. Which I

43:04

sort of felt like it was like somebody was

43:07

at a dinner party being just a bit too

43:09

hilarious. Yeah. Too

43:11

much. much. Too much. You are

43:13

too much. It has been a bit mad,

43:15

that whole sort of thing. I mean, we

43:17

always knew that he's sort of, you know,

43:19

he likes the big desk spots. He's always

43:21

quite like Putin and all of that. Yeah,

43:23

the big lights hang out together. I do

43:25

wonder if there's a little bit of hope

43:27

that... the problem with Trump and but sometimes

43:30

the good thing with Trump is he can

43:32

change his mind on a dime. Absolutely. And

43:34

at any point he can actually just go

43:36

whatever, you know, I get a lot of

43:38

criticism on Twitter for going maybe Zelensky's more

43:40

in the right than Putin is. And I

43:42

mean, I'm amazed at how many people go,

43:44

no, you know, he's got a

43:46

fan base. He really has. Things

43:48

I never saw coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

43:50

I mean, but yeah, I mean,

43:52

Trump like that iconic photo again. content,

43:55

the photo of him and Zelensky in

43:57

the churchy place. You're joking, amazing.

43:59

And what we had at that moment,

44:01

you don't get it off from Trump, was

44:03

you got the, I'm being serious, Donald

44:05

now. And I always feel quite reassured by

44:07

that. I'm like, okay, maybe he's not

44:09

always. But also, that oval off his bust

44:11

up, I mean, Zelensky, give him his

44:13

G, but he wasn't prepped and he did

44:15

sort of poke a stick a little

44:17

bit, right? He could have been

44:19

a bit more prepped and I just wondered.

44:23

Because that was a 15 minute meeting in the middle

44:25

of a fucking church weather. What

44:28

was he told to say? You know,

44:30

how did he approach it? Was he

44:32

like, I'm really sorry that I haven't

44:34

showed you due deference, but I need

44:36

to point out A, B and C.

44:38

Because really, something went in. Something went

44:41

in. And apparently, Macron and Starmer have

44:43

been in his ear and stuff. But

44:45

the thing is, they call it a

44:47

statecraft. Just telling someone to kiss someone's

44:49

ass is not that highbrow strategy. But

44:51

I always think to Trump, could you

44:53

overdo it? But maybe you can't. Maybe

44:56

his vanity is such as Putin sent

44:58

him a portrait of the famous fist

45:00

in the air with blood coming off

45:02

his ear. Trump

45:04

would have loved that. I would have

45:06

loved that. I'd have loved that. That would,

45:08

yeah. If somebody just said, oh, I just found

45:10

one of your old tour posters. If someone

45:12

shot me, I'd want it sort of done in

45:14

oil up on my neck. And like, you

45:16

know that kind of black and white shading thing,

45:18

like Shay Guevara? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like

45:20

that. So I could just stand there and look

45:22

at it and get a semi. Yeah, I

45:24

mean, I think there's a lens, there is that

45:26

point where you must be thinking, surely there's

45:28

too much here. But it turns out that there's

45:30

not. Like, you're just sitting there going, you

45:33

could have him in a

45:35

fight. Do you think? Yeah, Donald,

45:37

you fucking... You're probably the

45:39

hardest in your year. And by

45:42

year, I mean year of

45:44

big strongmen politicians. You can have

45:46

anyone. You've got

45:48

the most nukes. Your

45:50

hair is sort of merged from that

45:52

real ginger into this lovely... It's hair

45:54

colour. I do like its hair colour.

45:57

It's gone white with a hue of...

45:59

Sort of rust. He's got a rust

46:01

bell on his head. He's graying gracefully.

46:03

He is. And I don't know why

46:05

it's incredible that we've ended up. This

46:07

is the genius of the man. We're

46:09

discussing his hair. Let's get back, right,

46:11

Tarris? Yeah, go on,

46:13

let's do tariffs. Let's do tariffs. I mean, his hair

46:15

is more interesting to talk about than tariffs. That's

46:17

the problem. But he did have a mandate, and even

46:19

it felt like people on the left were like,

46:21

you know what? There's no sense of Russian collusion, or

46:23

certainly not before the election, right? People voted for

46:25

this. With their eyes open, they know he is. They

46:28

people voted to the left sort of step back.

46:30

And the biggest thing is the tarot thing. And it

46:32

can't say that he didn't trail this, because he

46:34

said tarot was his favourite word in the English language,

46:36

right? And... it just

46:38

doesn't feel like, to me, it

46:40

went that well. I mean,

46:42

I know that there's still this 10 % baseline that

46:44

they might say has gone well. But by all

46:46

accounts there, he had to sit down with some

46:48

of the big American brands recently. It just sort

46:50

of said, what are you doing, mate? You know,

46:52

Americans like buying shit. There's

46:55

been no shit to buy soon. So,

46:57

and his argument, you know, it's just been paradoxical.

46:59

He's like, we're going to earn all this money

47:01

off tariffs. but we're going

47:03

to make it here. Which one

47:05

of those is it? So,

47:07

the terrorist thing, I think, he

47:10

definitely backed down. He definitely backed down.

47:12

Yeah, but when Trump backs down, the beauty

47:14

of Trump is, if something goes wrong,

47:16

he'll go, it went well. If he backs

47:18

down and someone points out he's backed

47:20

down, he's like, no, I didn't. So, I

47:22

mean, he's sort a bullet for his

47:24

Teflon, isn't he? Because... if

47:26

he fucks up, which he has fucked

47:28

up this tariff thing. He's never gonna

47:30

admit it and his supporters Believe what

47:32

he says over reality. So if he

47:34

says it's been a great success, they'll

47:36

they'll kind of I heard a great

47:38

analogy about the tariffs is like Tariffs

47:40

is a is a tool, right? And

47:42

it's like someone you got a leak

47:44

in your house and you go out

47:46

and you buy a tool But you

47:48

have no plumbing experience whatsoever. So you

47:51

just sort of like so he has

47:53

absolutely no idea how economics

47:55

works. He doesn't even really understand how

47:57

to use this tool because he thinks

47:59

they pay for it, not them. He

48:02

doesn't really know what he's fucking

48:04

doing. What's really interesting about the difference

48:06

between the first his

48:08

first presidency and his second presidency. I don't

48:10

think this would have happened in his first

48:12

presidency. Well, he still had the inverted commas

48:14

grown -ups in the room. He had the

48:16

grown -ups in the room. I honestly think for

48:18

about the first 12 to 18 months, he

48:21

was just working out what the fucking job

48:23

was. He didn't really get... And now he

48:25

does know what the right... wrong and wrongs

48:27

are of the office, but he doesn't give

48:29

a fuck. Whereas the first time around, I

48:31

don't think he actually understood the presidency. He

48:33

wanted to do the presidency stuff, didn't he?

48:35

Yeah, he just wanted to, yeah, helicopters and

48:38

all that shit. And that was the first

48:40

sort of 18 months. And then the last

48:42

two years of his presidency was COVID, and

48:44

he was sort of trapped in that. So

48:46

I don't think we ever really saw him.

48:48

No, no, he certainly put For Pell. And

48:50

this time around, he's sort of, there's more

48:52

of a confidence about him. And also, it's

48:55

not you can be

48:57

more open. If you think Trump

48:59

is a good bet and you

49:01

like him, there is more incentive

49:03

now to say openly. There's certainly people

49:05

in the American electorate that are willing to

49:07

give him a bit more leeway. I

49:09

mean, there is an argument like, you know,

49:11

if he's restrained by the bond markets, as

49:14

a man of the left, does he not concern you a bit?

49:17

that these kind of money lending markets can,

49:19

now they might have stopped radical action

49:21

you didn't like in the case of Liz

49:23

Truss, but certainly Labour's wings have been

49:25

clipped and then you get, you know, a

49:27

sort of protectionist agenda for Trump. I

49:29

mean, maybe this has always been the way,

49:31

but certainly in my lifetime, we've never been

49:33

as conscious of the ability of the bond

49:35

markets to essentially go, no, too much. Can

49:37

anybody enact a radical agenda anymore? Fucking, that

49:39

was a proper big podcast question, that, wasn't

49:42

it? Can anybody... Trump's

49:44

the wrong person to talk about in those

49:46

terms of having a radical agenda, because he

49:48

does have a radical agenda, but he's sort

49:50

of not very good at his... job in

49:52

that regard he doesn't really achieve but I

49:54

guess he would say that this is a

49:56

long -term thing right and we can't just rattled

49:59

in in the short term we've got to

50:01

see it through to the other side but

50:03

if you look at any kind of like

50:05

big western countries every time they try to

50:07

do something radical like the sort of establishment

50:09

shits itself which is fair enough the establishment

50:11

has every right to soil its pants but

50:13

it does feel like we are now kind

50:16

of locked into a fairly

50:18

established way of doing things. You know, COVID

50:20

showed that all the Western countries basically did

50:22

more. Oh, yeah. I mean, they all, all

50:24

these sort of, you know, you know, Trump

50:26

folded within minutes, you know, and, and, and

50:28

we all sort of merrily went along with

50:30

it. Yeah, I like that. I mean, was

50:32

that the Trump dance? It was actually, yeah,

50:34

yeah, yeah. Do you remember after you first

50:36

got in there were quite a lot of

50:38

people doing that. There's slightly less now, I

50:41

think. Yeah, yeah. There was like NFL players

50:43

doing that. And then they suddenly realized that

50:45

people from their community had been illegally. deported.

50:47

But there was a look, we'll say this,

50:49

right, it's closed off the section, first 100

50:51

days of Trump. It did start with an

50:53

unusual amount of goodwill, even from sort of

50:55

liberal commentators in the press where they were

50:57

like, you know, hey, people voted for this. Even

51:00

I had a

51:03

sense. I

51:05

mean, I knew he would, as soon as he became nominated,

51:07

I was like, it's a shit, and I couldn't understand why people

51:09

are going, I think she's going to do it, I think

51:11

she's going to do it. I thought she was demonstrably

51:15

not as good a candidate as Trump.

51:17

And that's fucking saying something because I

51:19

can't fucking stand the man. But candidate

51:21

means something different. It's not a judgment

51:23

on the person and their policy. It's like,

51:25

how do you get out in front of

51:27

the public and sell yourself? I always remember

51:29

all those fucking legacy celebrities we're so

51:31

taken with. But oh, she's got Eminem. Oh,

51:34

she's got Beyonce. That's like

51:36

He gives a fuck. That's not

51:38

going, oh, she's got fucking Simon Cowell.

51:40

It's not exactly like that, Geoff.

51:42

But, you know... But he started with.

51:44

He started with Goodwill. I

51:46

think, for me, even if you're

51:48

open to some of the pushback on

51:50

diversity, open to slimming back the state,

51:53

the moment that somebody starts picking apart

51:55

the sort of Western alliance and NATO, I'm

51:57

like, OK, buddy. That was the moment

52:00

that you just got, oh, shit. You

52:02

know, I mean, he's literally ended the

52:04

West Alliance. You're essentially at a point

52:06

where you've almost got an America -Russian

52:08

axis. Yeah, I didn't know

52:10

what article 5 was for a lot of

52:12

my life, but having become more aware

52:14

of it, I'm kind of in favour. know,

52:16

you've fired bombs at us, they'll fire

52:18

bombs you. And also whatever you think

52:21

of Zelensky, to say, for

52:23

America to say you fucking started it. And

52:25

also America... Yeah, call him a dick at

52:27

that moment now, yeah. America is a major

52:29

part of NATO and you might have a

52:31

problem with NATO. To go it's NATO's fault

52:33

rather than Moscow's fault. I mean, that was

52:35

sort of... It's sort of absurd. Yes, fair.

52:37

Okay, I think, look, if you think that

52:39

we've, if we handled that in a balanced

52:41

way, you'll probably accuse, we've been coming together

52:43

a little bit in this. I'm sorry about

52:45

that, listeners. I know that you fucking... But

52:47

your followers will think that I'm turning you

52:49

in, and look, this is what happened with

52:51

people. I'm far too reasonable for my own

52:53

good. That's the... Well, listen. My

52:55

character wouldn't, would be having a go at you now.

52:57

Your character would be biting me like one of those

52:59

fucking zombies in The Last of Us. But

53:02

yeah, listen, tell us what you think.

53:04

Was that a fair assessment? Email, what

53:06

most... think UK at gmail.com. All

53:09

right, for everybody else, it'll be

53:11

the end of the show, but

53:13

for the patrons, we'll now be

53:15

discussing Irish hip hop, adjit rockers

53:17

kneecap. Boo yuck a shark. Not

53:20

that one. We

53:25

ended the patron only discussing we

53:28

would talk about kneecap and their controversial

53:30

inverted commas messaging But we sort

53:32

of covered the Dua Lipa We talked

53:34

about the artist Dua Lipa in

53:36

there saying that she sounded like a

53:38

five -door hatchback. Yeah It

53:41

does sound, it's great. And there was

53:43

that talk with pop stars a while ago.

53:45

You remember Demi Lovato and Ariana Grande? People

53:47

said they both sound like coffees. And

53:49

Ariana Grande, yeah. And I just have

53:51

a Demi Lovato. I

53:54

might not sleep otherwise. And

53:56

listen, Tom Walker, Aka Jonathan Pye,

53:58

remind us of the show

54:00

where - So called Jonathan Pye

54:02

series two, the first five episodes

54:04

are out right now at

54:06

the final three drop this Friday.

54:08

Called Jonathan Pye, you can Listen

54:11

to it on BBC Sound, but...

54:13

If you don't listen to the

54:15

BBC because it's just a load

54:17

of bullshit because I've sold out,

54:19

it is available wherever you get

54:21

your podcasts. I love that.

54:24

It sounds very clever. up

54:27

to you. Thank you

54:29

so much for appearing on the show. This

54:31

is like the first time I've done a

54:33

proper podcast with cameras and stuff like that.

54:36

So I'm going to farm out the clips

54:38

most likely to get us both in trouble.

54:40

So just put stuff on mute maybe for

54:42

a week. I'm particularly looking forward to the

54:44

bit where I make it look like you

54:46

said that reform were liberal. So let's... Looking

54:48

forward to that. Looking forward to that. But

54:50

listen, everybody else, obviously the local elections are

54:53

on Thursday night, so get the amphetamines in.

54:55

Stay up all night. And obviously, unlike kneecap, I'm

54:57

not saying you should get the amphetamines in. I'm

54:59

not saying you shouldn't either. Get

55:02

them in and... Tape drugs, again,

55:04

is better than... Yeah, yeah,

55:06

yeah. Kill yourself. Have a fucking

55:08

liner gap. Yeah. Do not

55:10

kill. Yeah. Potentially. Well,

55:12

you can kill yourself. That's your right.

55:14

But just don't kill other people. Okay.

55:16

Well, this one might get sanctioned on

55:18

iTunes. I'll be back with a post -election

55:20

results show on Friday.