0:00

i'm josh living in the

0:02

third season of sleep podcast one

0:04

year, we're going to rewind all the

0:07

way back to 1986, you'll

0:09

get new perspectives on the year's

0:11

most shocking moments like the explosion

0:14

of the space shuttle challenger i

0:15

i just had this premonition that something

0:18

bad was gonna to to that much

0:19

and basketball star isaiah thomas

0:22

has an audacious plan to transform

0:24

pray i'm asking you who for

0:27

live in on day, let him

0:29

live one year later lady said

0:32

listen wherever you get your podcasts

0:37

hi listeners today's episode contains

0:40

descriptions of sexual assault

0:42

the end of the shell

0:44

we'll give you a resource in case you

0:46

or someone you love me some support

0:52

the news woodson was growing up in the eighties

0:54

and nineties her church was everything

0:58

the church wage my

1:01

family outside as my

1:03

biological family and

1:05

a

1:07

the basically boring nc

1:09

who a church her family

1:11

moved to the woodlands texas when she was five

1:13

and joined a local baptist church woodlands

1:16

parkway it was part of the southern

1:18

baptist convention also known as the

1:20

sp see the largest protestant

1:22

denomination in the us one

1:24

of the most conservative when joseph

1:26

fourteen and a youth pastor andy

1:29

savage joined woodlands parkway

1:31

her mom was on the committee who picked

1:33

him

1:34

here we have this ad and energetic

1:37

charismatic youth pastor

1:39

coming on who is going to grow

1:42

the youth group analysis exciting

1:44

and of course i wanted to add

1:47

me please him i i

1:49

definitely looked after them as

1:52

a role model as a leader the

1:54

youth group spent a ton of time together

1:56

even when there were no organized events

1:59

when weekday

1:59

during her senior year of high school

2:02

the group of hanging out at the church after school

2:04

we were sitting around the and playing

2:07

music and he and another and

2:10

, from the youth group played gets par

2:12

and so we would sit around and see where zip

2:14

files and so we had to

2:16

said hanging out doing that and

2:19

slowly you know people trickled out

2:21

and eventually i it

2:23

was coming down to where it was just indiana

2:27

you're caught her mom to ask is andy to

2:29

drive her home and her mom agree

2:32

they got in a car

2:34

he passed return to

2:36

go to my house and i

2:39

was shots and but i thought he

2:41

was taking me to go the ice cream and

2:44

as i started to question him

2:46

and seeds or said it's a

2:48

the prize you'll see learn

2:50

and i trust him as

2:53

he ended up turning down a dark dirt

2:55

road and ah he

2:59

had the track

3:02

started at touching me

3:04

and my bras and fondling me

3:06

and asking

3:07

the to perform oral sex

3:09

on hand and

3:12

i could have any fool neck and

3:14

grew up in the purity culture i

3:17

knew it was wrong and

3:19

because you weren't supposed to even think

3:21

about sex before marriage by

3:24

sheer ways my

3:27

pastor my teacher

3:29

and who i looked at to asking me

3:32

to do something and something that moment

3:34

i was scared and we have no

3:36

talk of consent or anything so

3:39

if anything with you to see what you're

3:41

told to do by mail

3:44

i'm and i day

3:46

the man see

3:48

with them that

3:49

say about five minutes to i

3:51

have you back

3:52

going i'm he immediately

3:56

jumped out of the try and

3:58

when around back and

3:59

fell to his knees and start screaming

4:03

oh my god oh my god what have i done

4:05

you have to take this to the grave with you

4:07

and i'm falling and i'm like

4:10

why in the world is

4:11

we online

4:15

when he got back in the truck

4:18

and drove you home but was

4:21

that ride home life

4:24

there were and of marriage there were no words

4:26

that then at all

4:28

the and i'm sitting there and i'm shaking

4:31

and i just could not wait to get home

4:33

as soon as i got from i'd immediately

4:36

wait for my room close

4:38

the door did not tell anybody

4:41

and

4:43

this cried myself to sleep

4:46

the next day jewels went to speak with

4:48

the associate pastor at her church of

4:51

all people she figured a pastor

4:53

the person of utmost moral authority in

4:55

her life

4:56

would handle the situation

4:59

there i went into his office and

5:01

i'm sitting in crying

5:03

and i'll go over six

5:06

feet cells as what happened the

5:08

night before and

5:10

, i'm telling him about

5:13

the oral sex he stops me

5:16

and he said the you're telling me

5:18

you participate it

5:20

was at that moment that i knew

5:23

i was going to be

5:25

blamed i was being blame

5:26

for quote participating

5:30

and i felt

5:32

read more shame

5:34

don't even know how how that's possible

5:37

but and even more shame that i said the night

5:39

before

5:40

so i ended up saying you know what's

5:42

gonna happen now and they said

5:45

the church would handle it and

5:47

you don't need to talk about that's with anybody

5:50

and so i was silence and

5:54

and and on

5:57

and , one ever from

5:59

the church

5:59

no duty

6:02

kimmel after he

6:04

left the meeting man not

6:06

for any reason to have more questions

6:09

not , do an internal investigation

6:12

not to see if i was okay nothing

6:17

oh my gosh i didn't

6:19

start

6:20

it's like she didn't even tell you

6:23

how

6:25

oh mon i felt in that moment

6:27

i mean cities were

6:30

the people to emulate i

6:32

i love i ,

6:34

we're brothers and sisters in christ

6:37

i trusted them i babysat their kids

6:40

and i felt in that

6:42

moment i'm completely of

6:44

level

6:48

word started getting around the church that something

6:50

had happened

6:51

maybe savage admitted he made what he called

6:53

them to stay and resigned

6:56

the congregation later and

6:58

a going away party

7:00

everybody is you know what the

7:02

showering him with praise and and

7:04

saying oh and he were gonna

7:06

miss you and meanwhile the rumors are going

7:08

around because nobody said the truth

7:10

of what had happened the rumors going

7:12

around said

7:13

twenty and i had tests

7:15

and so i was the looked

7:18

at as the jazz the bow that

7:20

seductress

7:21

then you know anti quote

7:24

made a

7:24

and

7:28

everybody believes that is so i was completely

7:30

shined from my entire community

7:32

a me my whole family was really we

7:34

were the reason and the

7:36

wait christian man still

7:39

made a mistake was leaving

7:41

you'll struggle with anxiety and depression

7:44

for years one point she

7:46

was even hospitalized

7:48

you know the physical assault

7:50

what any dad was horrible

7:52

but it was the aftermath of being blamed

7:55

in silence ignored after

7:57

i reported that was the most traumatizing

7:59

and

8:02

something people don't realize is that

8:04

a when clergy sexual abuse

8:06

happens it's not just the physical

8:09

abuse and the emotional abuse but it's

8:11

spiritual abuse and

8:13

and and i completely lost my

8:15

i didn't

8:16

my personhood my speak

8:18

and my church work everything to

8:20

me and it was all kind and an

8:22

instant

8:24

meanwhile andy savage continued

8:26

his life eventually found work

8:28

at another southern baptist church and

8:30

then a mega church your family

8:33

went

8:33

public with her story and twenty eight team

8:35

and added mega church and the savage

8:38

apologize to the consultation for

8:40

what he called a quote unquote sexual

8:43

incident

8:44

my repellents over the sand twenty years

8:46

ago was done believing the god's forgiveness

8:49

is greater than any sense and

8:51

i still believe that

8:54

since then i have

8:56

tried to live my life in keeping that

8:58

original act of repentance for

9:01

any painful memories are fresh wounds this

9:03

is created for anyone

9:06

why

9:08

and i humbly ask for your forgiveness

9:12

oh

9:13

how gave mp savage a standing

9:15

ovation the statute of limitations

9:18

for anti savages crime against jewels

9:20

had passed by that point

9:22

the law had failed

9:23

as the her church

9:26

have tried to attend

9:29

multiple different churches over the years

9:31

but ultimately it's ultimately

9:33

it's triggering for me

9:36

and hs with everything

9:44

but it's very personal

9:46

and i just cannot

9:48

the court organized

9:50

religion kills is not alone

9:52

in her experience

9:54

abuse within the s p c has and ram

9:56

figure and twenty

9:58

nineteen a houston

9:59

chronicle peace revealed

10:01

widespread sexual abuse within

10:03

the denominator

10:04

robert down and one of the

10:06

houston chronicle the porters uncovered

10:08

troubling detail there had been

10:11

more than a decade and a half by then other

10:13

times by survivors to magnify

10:15

this problem and get it

10:17

on the attention of of sbc leaders

10:20

and they were either ignored disparage

10:22

to or you know treated with outright hostility

10:25

the investigation prompted the scc

10:28

commission his own internal review

10:30

conducted by an independent organization

10:33

called guideposts

10:34

the internal review

10:36

confront a lot of what the chronicle had already

10:38

sas you know what it does a

10:40

great job of is so incest the way

10:42

that this handful of you know insular

10:45

leaders were able to really

10:47

manipulate the denomination

10:49

and basically mislead this nomination

10:51

about what was going on behind the scenes

10:54

earlier this month the spc announced

10:56

it was being investigated by the department of justice

10:59

some survivors like to hope the investigation

11:01

might lead to crucial changes there

11:03

are unsure of justice as possible

11:05

what substantive reforms will

11:07

be implemented

11:08

this is not something that

11:10

you know we do a few things and then

11:13

oh we've handled the problem and

11:15

it's gonna go

11:16

and we're moving on to other thing with know

11:18

i need to see long term

11:20

submitted reform

11:22

today on the show the department

11:24

of justice's taking a serious look at

11:26

the southern baptist convention i

11:28

can anything truly change in a religious

11:30

denomination seat in traditionalism

11:33

and until now cloaked

11:35

in secrecy

11:37

filming and primary harris i'm mary six

11:40

earnest

11:41

you're listening to what next

11:43

around

11:48

what next is brought to you by progressive

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12:30

and twenty nine teen robert down

12:32

in houston chronicle investigations

12:34

revealed rancid abuse in the southern baptist

12:37

convention

12:38

it found that over two decades

12:40

roughly three hundred eighty ft

12:42

see affiliated leaders and volunteers

12:45

were accused of sexual misconduct

12:48

the independent organization guidepost

12:50

which was called in by the spc to

12:52

conduct an internal review released

12:54

his report in may

12:56

the asked robert down and explain why

12:58

it was so significant

13:00

the report was pretty explosive i was

13:02

four hundred pages with footnotes and

13:04

go at the center of the report was this man

13:06

and augie bodo has their species long

13:09

time lawyer and what it found

13:11

was that he and a handful of others had

13:13

been routinely calling

13:15

the survivors distractions

13:17

from evangelism and saying that that

13:20

the the fight to get to protect

13:22

children was the say tannic scheme and

13:24

all of these really shocking a stunning things

13:26

but also as the same time he was doing that

13:29

he was denying the survivors

13:31

requests for reforms but

13:33

because you know in public he said that they wouldn't

13:36

be effective more practical because of spc

13:38

structure but then behind closed

13:40

doors he was actually you know

13:42

engaging with some of those reforms including

13:44

this our internal less that gotten

13:47

a lot of attention

13:48

it turned out while spc

13:50

lawyer or the bodo was publicly

13:52

denying issues of widespread abuse

13:55

and shooting down reforms he was

13:57

secretly keeping a list of hundreds

13:59

of known

13:59

redditors within the church

14:01

then he doesn't seem to really have done anything with it like

14:04

that's what i think that's really the shocking thing for

14:06

lot of people is that like survivors

14:08

had requested for so long this

14:10

internal database the church's could consult

14:12

when making hiring decisions and

14:15

it turns out the entire time that he was

14:17

smacking the idea down in public and telling

14:19

and and instructing as we see churches as

14:22

their lawyer that this was not

14:24

, he was doing it privately and i think

14:26

that was was that i think

14:28

was it was a major findings as because

14:31

it it really did that thing just

14:33

gonna lay bare the disciples add

14:35

to seats that as we see leaders had been

14:37

engaged in for so long

14:39

what do we know about the investigation

14:41

so far do we know exactly

14:43

what

14:44

the justice department is looking

14:46

the details of the investigation

14:48

are still very very sparse and i

14:50

doubt we're gonna get much information

14:54

, because it's wrapped up in grand jury proceedings

14:56

wizard darcy grave but

14:58

you know i talked to their species lawyers

15:00

this week and they confirmed to me

15:02

that they'd been subpoenaed for a full unredacted

15:05

version of botos less

15:08

as well as some supplemental materials

15:10

from guidepost the from that handle the

15:13

report from may now where

15:15

i do think we need to take a step

15:17

back here is acting they're lot of people

15:19

who are hearing that and hearing about this

15:21

investigation and getting in our is

15:24

feeling it's reminiscent of what's been going on

15:26

with the catholic church and all these states

15:28

attorneys general investigations

15:30

and i think these

15:32

are gonna play out much differently

15:34

from a from an investigatory standpoint

15:36

i think because the as

15:39

such as organizations are vastly

15:41

different

15:41

just briefly how is it

15:43

different because people will make that connection

15:46

sure that men is a great question and really

15:48

is at the center of the scandal so

15:52

you know the roman catholic church obviously hierarchical

15:54

you have you have and then cardinals in the deception

15:57

and diocese and you know there's there's

15:59

a structure there were dictates

16:01

and decrease the flow downward

16:03

where's the as d c is totally

16:06

the opposite of you know the headquarters of the spc

16:08

they like say is in the local church and

16:10

the sp see there's a

16:13

kind of a coalition of forty seven

16:15

thousand churches while they do i'm

16:18

generally agree on theology

16:20

and come together to find

16:22

a mission work and do other things

16:24

like that there really aren't too

16:27

many other unifying things technically

16:29

about them like even you just have to

16:31

dig check a few boxes the become a southern

16:33

baptist church and so it

16:36

really is a very democratic

16:38

system and so every june

16:41

the for your messengers from

16:43

these churches get together and they decide

16:45

what they want to do you know they vote on reforms

16:48

they you know talk about budget do other things

16:50

as an annual business meeting and

16:52

then for the three hundred and sixty three other

16:54

days of the year their executive committee

16:56

the group that at the center of this report from

16:58

may and which is under investigation

17:01

by the d o j they are supposed to

17:03

kinds of serve as the fiduciary

17:05

but also he knows as a stand and

17:07

for the forty seven thousand search

17:09

though just how will this decentralized

17:12

structure effect are impacted

17:14

the the o j investigation

17:17

my guess is that is going to kind

17:19

of focused primarily on the executive committee

17:21

because they are caught

17:23

in the again to stand in for the a species

17:25

four seven thousand first draft the air but

17:27

when it comes to like trying like investigate

17:30

like the southern baptist convention that

17:32

that's almost as that kind of an impossible thing

17:34

to do because you're talk about

17:36

forty seven thousand churches that literally just

17:38

cooperate together so i think

17:41

it is important is that this

17:43

is the highest them and them and most forceful

17:45

accountability that this group has ever say

17:47

spread the same time the policy of that

17:50

b c is gonna make this is think i have more

17:52

difficult type of investigation

17:54

than investigation lot of people realize

17:55

local church autonomy essential to

17:57

the investigation

17:59

how much can

17:59

the whole an oversight executive committee

18:02

has could determine it's culpability

18:04

i'm argue that spc

18:07

leaders are seldom aware of what goes on

18:09

at individual churches however

18:12

the executive committee has stepped

18:14

in severed ties with churches

18:16

in the past for allowing lgbtq

18:19

members

18:19

up until our reporting

18:22

won two of the things that could

18:24

get you booted from the s b c word

18:26

to have a female pastor or

18:28

are be affirming of homosexuality

18:31

having a convicted sex offender on staff was not

18:34

did not warn you removal from the spc

18:36

it's spc it's are interesting i

18:39

contradicts and i'll say that luckily

18:41

the his seems that in the wake of are reporting

18:44

by yeah the this idea of local church

18:46

autonomy this this idea of all the churches

18:48

being self governing does kind of

18:51

where , where it gets complicated with the question of

18:53

lgbtq or women

18:55

pastors is everything governing

18:58

documents explicitly say that those

19:00

two things are banned but because they

19:02

had never put in there that convicted

19:05

sex feathers weren't bands you could not be

19:07

booted

19:08

or following from that even if

19:10

it did have a the explicitly talking

19:12

about this and even for leaders who said

19:15

i didn't know how widespread the abuse was that

19:18

may have known that the fact that you aren't

19:20

doing oversight might potentially

19:22

attract the kind of folks who might

19:24

be predators

19:26

exactly and i think you know we

19:28

have for so long phrase

19:32

the i've been i've always been very careful to

19:34

say he owed when people are defensive

19:36

to our boarding like know your churches

19:39

and you as a southern baptists you are also

19:41

in so many ways of victim of this because

19:43

your leadership has failed to bring attention

19:46

to this issue that they knew existed for

19:48

years you've created sources

19:50

that predators know are safe places

19:53

and that's why they target them people seem

19:55

to look at in inversely soft and that

19:57

like oh ministers are abusers

19:59

is like a be so on so often these

20:01

people seek out positions of power

20:03

and authority interests and what better place

20:06

to abuse children then in a place

20:08

where you are the authority your

20:10

offensively speaking as god

20:13

and also

20:14

you have that power wrapped up with the ability

20:16

to manipulate your congregants views

20:19

on repentance and forgiveness so that

20:21

you're not ever prosecuted and

20:23

then you can just go to the church down the streets

20:25

like that is the system of spc and

20:27

so much of that has been enabled by the complete

20:29

inaction of as busy leaders for so

20:32

long now luckily we're starting to

20:34

see , lot of changes in that

20:36

but still it is very stunning

20:39

to see just how the not the inaction

20:41

of of a few men in power and ah species

20:43

leadership in nashville for this long could

20:46

communicate to so many sexual predators

20:48

i got this as we these are safe havens for

20:50

us after the brain

20:52

more from robert down and on which reforms

20:54

the scc is actually considering

20:57

and light of the b o j investigations

20:59

and could any policy change on it's own

21:02

put an end to this culture of abuse

21:15

the wake of revelations of widespread

21:17

abuse and the southern baptist convention

21:19

a number of survivors and even some leaders

21:21

have been calling for concrete policy before

21:25

at the annual convention this summer is

21:27

b c members voted to require

21:29

keeping a public database of known

21:31

predators within the organization primarily

21:34

to give spc church has something to

21:36

reference when making hiring decisions

21:39

and to be more transparent about

21:41

of

21:41

and that was actually passed that they're meeting

21:43

in june i'm pretty much

21:45

unanimously thirty in the

21:47

process of you know discussing a care

21:49

fine for survivors and also setting

21:52

up you know i'm a confidence

21:54

of tip line there are a

21:56

whole host of of things that they're pursuing right

21:58

now that i think they're gonna no really start

22:00

to feel that the let the reforms

22:03

that they had made up until this summer even

22:05

spc leaders were quick to note yeah

22:07

these are very much first steps but more

22:09

broadly i mean it will i don't i think it

22:11

would be fair to say that the as we see is deafening

22:13

moving towards much more substantive

22:15

reform even if they've only taken

22:17

those first steps

22:19

some would say that some

22:21

of the culture and asshole

22:23

theology of the s d c

22:26

the have factored into the abuse

22:28

and the reaction to it the women being

22:31

submissive purity culture

22:33

that

22:34

you need reform of policy but

22:36

maybe broader cultural

22:39

reform has we seen

22:41

any movement in that area

22:43

not from a you know official standpoint

22:46

i don't think but i do i you

22:48

know just in my size and a half

22:50

years or whatever it's banned in and as b c

22:52

world i can say that there's definitely been

22:55

much more of a shift in

22:57

conversations about you know

22:59

this idea of compliments hairiness undecided

23:01

the idea the know women or men or complimentary

23:04

to each other but have different roles and

23:06

therefore women should be pastors so there's

23:09

then you know conversations about that there's

23:12

then you know

23:13

the growing

23:14

conversation about racial reconciliation

23:17

in the sbc which was founded on of support

23:19

for slavery i'm and

23:21

then also you know there's been you

23:23

know a little bit more conversation about the

23:26

purity culture aspect of this but

23:28

you know i will say you know i those aren't fields

23:30

that i pray primarily operate in but i

23:32

would tell you that the people who do would say that

23:34

it's simply hasn't been enough i'm

23:36

just because it it it

23:38

does kind of undergirds so many of these problems

23:41

the applicant work the way some of the survivors were

23:43

told to react to it or to

23:45

take parcel responsibility or be blamed

23:48

one of the things that i think has

23:50

been really lacking in in the response

23:52

arm and unfortunately i don't think

23:54

what seems anytime soon is the the

23:56

question of how does this he treats lgbtq

24:00

though because i know

24:02

just from my reporting that i talked to

24:04

so many people who were

24:06

abused as young boys and

24:08

by mean by their male passers

24:10

and stayed in silence

24:13

and suffered so profoundly

24:15

because they were

24:17

abused in this context that views

24:20

on the sexuality as an absolute unforgivable

24:22

sin and you know

24:25

their their life paths

24:27

went so many different ways often

24:29

destruction often cite you know in some cases deadly

24:31

just because they felt

24:33

that that like such profound

24:36

a shame because you're being abused

24:38

by someone who's also in

24:41

the context of your church and religious beliefs

24:43

like turning you into the ultimate center

24:46

and like giving you this ultimate

24:48

same and it's just like unfortunately

24:50

that's not something that has been talked about enough

24:52

and as b c i don't think but it is definitely

24:55

a a confounding factor in

24:57

the wake of the reason why so many damn

24:59

people don't come forward

25:01

the same thing you could say the same thing of purity

25:03

culture with young girls being abused by

25:06

when you can pound lot with you

25:08

know the religious trauma that

25:10

the spirits or same that the company's

25:12

clergy abuse especially andes

25:15

rural settings where you don't have lot of

25:17

support systems outside of your church lights

25:19

it really is it's a perfect system for

25:22

for abusers and it's about the worst

25:24

this impossible for those of years

25:26

the recent scrutiny and the sp see

25:28

comes at a time when the organization

25:30

has already divide a

25:33

recent fifth test for him leaders

25:35

have disagreed on how to address issues like

25:37

racism

25:38

in twenty twenty there was this splinter

25:41

group that forms they

25:43

yell quote unquote grassroots movement

25:45

that happens to be led by

25:47

or heavily influenced by former

25:50

leaders including those who were implicated

25:52

in the may report and who were ousted

25:54

from recent recently from positions for

25:56

other handling of of rape claims they

25:59

have been or less a supportive

26:01

of abuse initiatives i'm

26:03

the need for racial reconciliation they

26:06

have kind of tried to frame

26:08

all of these things as like trojan

26:10

horses for liberalism to com creeping

26:12

into the sbc which if you know anything about

26:14

the sbc is is pretty funny

26:17

because it's about as conservative a denomination

26:19

as you can get

26:20

regardless of how

26:23

that the o j investigation unfold

26:25

the whole scandal has tarnished

26:28

the reputation of the as b c so

26:30

how do you think this situation

26:32

will affect the convention moving forward

26:35

both where the leadership committee and for individual

26:38

church

26:39

you know that again remains to be

26:41

seen but you know over the last

26:43

few years the a species membership was

26:45

already in a nosedive as

26:47

you know even more so than the average american christened

26:50

domination that has seen people kind of leaving

26:53

now

26:55

what's interesting is that i've seen some

26:57

work on why people are leaving and

26:59

you have one group that is leaving because

27:02

of the sp sees you ,

27:04

handling of abuse of race of all these

27:06

subs issues and and on the other hand you

27:08

have a group of people who are leaving

27:10

because they feel like they're species

27:13

liberalized and they found kind

27:15

of mag a preacher's online who

27:17

who kind of sit with their political

27:19

views and feel that they are not

27:21

being represented in their average sbc church

27:24

and so that is kind of the broader conflict

27:27

in others obviously a broad agreement amongst

27:29

the church representatives that mad at

27:31

his annual meetings but the question moving forward

27:33

i think is in a wood which was held

27:36

you want to die on that the membership hell

27:38

where you're you're not speaking out against

27:40

yom things that you need to speak

27:43

out against or the hill on which

27:45

you know you're speaking out against the things

27:47

that you want to bomb membership

27:49

to bomb if they're still

27:51

wrestling with that

27:52

i mean i think that's where kind of does matriculate

27:55

down to the local church and this broader culture

27:57

because headquarters that b c lily is

27:59

the local

27:59

shirts and this is where i do think the on

28:02

this the o j investigation kind of ramps

28:04

up that question at the more local

28:06

level like okay like everyone knows

28:08

our denomination is under federal investigation

28:10

right now like do we even wanna

28:12

be a part of this and like what are

28:15

we getting from the s b c versus

28:17

what are we giving to them and in

28:19

our highways this relationship with spc

28:21

affected what we do and don't

28:23

talk about you know just all these more local decisions

28:25

that i think are going to be amplified by the

28:28

d o j scrutiny

28:30

that you robert down and for appearing

28:32

on what next i hope you'll keep

28:34

us posted

28:35

thank you so much happier

28:38

robert down and as a reporter at the houston

28:40

chronicle charles woodson is

28:43

launching a nonprofit to provide

28:45

therapy funding for survivors of sexual

28:47

abuse if you are

28:49

a loved one are dealing with sexual abuse

28:52

here's the number for the national sexual

28:54

that

28:54

the hot nine

28:55

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28:58

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29:16

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29:19

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29:24

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29:26

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29:27

filling in for mary has i'm mary

29:29

see curtis

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