0:00

There people I know I know who have

0:02

spent more time in comedy than

0:04

Neil than Neil human beings. few And

0:06

when I say comedy, I mean

0:08

every level of comedy, mean every level of comedy.

0:10

TV. Administration. Yeah, no red paper work. No really. You

0:13

are that guy. that guy. Club comedy, Neil Neil

0:15

Brennan has been in the the trenches

0:17

the trenches. So I was gonna

0:19

ask you about this, but ask you

0:21

about this, but like, I feel like... There

0:25

is no comedian who does

0:27

not have something wrong with

0:29

them. I learned that from the Daily actually. good

0:31

learned that from The Daily Show. these like, all

0:33

these people are insane. I was like, these are not I

0:35

was like, these are not normal people. a, and

0:38

it and it doesn't matter what it is.

0:40

It it might just, it might be your family. family.

0:42

It might be the country you lived in.

0:44

It might be just a neurodivergent thing that

0:46

you have in your own head and you

0:48

grew up in a fine grew up funny head is

0:50

doing, world. I do a podcast called I I

0:52

have people on and we talk about I

0:54

issues. we talk and I know that they're

0:56

not the real issues. not the real

0:59

you know what I mean? what I

1:01

are the issues that you're willing, these

1:03

are the are the issues? Oh issues. like, wait,

1:05

but do you you think they know? A couple

1:07

days a year, they know. They

1:09

know a couple days a year they

1:12

can actually be like they can want

1:14

to look at it. be like, ugh.

1:16

But they don't want to

1:18

look at it. This is

1:20

what now? With Trevanoa.

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3:49

you don't know Neil Brennan, you probably

3:51

don't know comedy, right? Neil Brennan is

3:53

in many ways like the forest gump

3:55

of comedy. He has been everywhere. He

3:58

knows everyone. comedian who is worth

4:00

is worth in in

4:02

anything. not have a story about not

4:04

have a story about Neil Brennan. where I don't

4:07

care where I from, I don't care what they're doing. they're

4:09

doing. I'm about comedians from other countries

4:11

as well not just in America as

4:13

they know just in right? Like they know

4:15

I know some of your story,

4:17

but I of want to miss

4:19

it, especially for to audience. especially for

4:21

the audience. is Neil Brennan is born where? Um, Philadelphia,

4:24

outside Philadelphia. Okay, I had like I had like

4:26

Ireland in my head some reason. It like

4:28

like it. It feels like it. It's really an Irish name. It really is.

4:30

I'm an an Irish citizen, but I

4:32

got my got my, oh you I got my

4:34

citizenship like recently late look at look don't

4:36

know what don't to do with it,

4:38

but I don't know what to do with it, but it just

4:40

use it. I'm You Yeah, do it. Just use it.

4:42

I'm going to eat you. The, uh, the, uh, born in so

4:45

you born in Philadelphia the last

4:47

of of 10. of last of many

4:49

How many boys, how many

4:51

girls? girls? total six boys, four

4:53

girls. four girls. And yeah, and then,

4:55

I I don't know, it was just.

4:58

You're the it's pretty

5:00

chaotic. chaotic. And it's a lot of a lot of

5:02

kids in a house. It's a bit like an

5:04

orphanage. And but no one but no

5:06

one comes. comes to take anybody. Okay, I'm your

5:08

parents parents one comes to gap back.

5:10

curious, like the age gap between your

5:13

parents are parents are in 16 kids in

5:15

16 years. 16 years, but I'm

5:17

curious the time by the time your

5:19

parents got to you, were they they

5:21

like, it. It was it. It was Do

5:23

they do? Just not was just kind of

5:25

like, kind ah, new of like, yeah. you'll it's whatever's

5:27

is gonna happen. But I would,

5:29

but still I was like, I

5:31

worked a lot, like I worked a lot I

5:33

caddied I but I was like drank smoked smoked. mom my

5:36

mom would just kind of not even.

5:38

Well, how old are you are you happening?

5:40

you this is 13 damn yeah yeah 13 14 I got under got

5:42

drinking when I'm drinking when I was 16, so

5:44

you have troublemaker kind of yeah but I'd stop once I of?

5:46

Yeah, but the end of I remember the end

5:48

of high school being like, I don't

5:50

really need to drink. Like never been

5:53

that that in was just like, I was

5:55

just doing it. just I it. I I was

5:57

of it, I was, I was similar that, like I was

5:59

friends with a lot. friend groups and

6:01

pretty funny and like. Was

6:03

the was the family funny

6:05

because I've never known this

6:08

part of your comedy like

6:11

Who was the funny in your

6:13

family or where did the funny

6:15

come from? My dad liked comedy.

6:17

I think a lot of what

6:19

his jokes were kind of stolen

6:21

from like Frank Sinatra and like

6:24

where I'd been like, oh I

6:26

know that cadence where I'd listen

6:28

to Frank Sinatra and I'd be

6:30

like, oh that's where he got

6:32

it. He's one of 13. So,

6:34

and it's a lot of boys

6:36

in that family. It's like seven

6:39

boys in this family. So, so

6:41

it was like a lot of

6:43

sort of sarcasm and then, this

6:45

is a funny story. One year

6:47

at Thanksgiving, I'm in high school,

6:49

my, one of my brother said,

6:52

Kevin, you're not even the funniest

6:54

one of the family. Neil is.

6:56

Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Wow. Like kind

6:58

of openly committed for funniest, I

7:00

guess. Specifically for funniest. Yeah. Well,

7:02

I guess in this case, yeah,

7:04

or something. Yeah, there was, it

7:07

was, but now having said that

7:09

my older brothers and sisters were.

7:11

all so great to me in

7:13

that they all had jobs that

7:15

were interesting that I got access

7:17

to. My brother Joe was a

7:19

caddy on the PGA Tour, so

7:22

I would go to like PGA

7:24

Tour events and like I knew

7:26

Kevin was a comedian so I

7:28

got entree into that in high

7:30

school new David Tell, new Louis,

7:32

new like Met Lou when I

7:35

was in high school, Ray Romano,

7:37

all these guys. Tommy worked at

7:39

the Chicago Stadium and Riggly Fields,

7:41

I used to go to Cubs

7:43

games, Bulls games. I saw a

7:45

white girl mistake Michael Jordan for

7:47

somebody else. That's how long ago

7:50

this was. A white girl said,

7:52

hey, are you Orlando Woolridge? And

7:57

his I remember my mother's face

7:59

falling and be like. Michael Stewart.

8:01

This is this is prehistoric time.

8:03

So I got I got a

8:05

lot of possibilities in I got

8:08

to see a lot of possibilities

8:10

and like a lot of life

8:12

choices and like paths from the

8:14

family. When have I think of

8:16

big families I I'm not,

8:19

I'm torn. You know, my family, like brothers

8:21

are split, right? So I have two younger

8:23

brothers, one is 10 years younger, one is

8:25

20 years younger. So for instance and purposes,

8:27

it feels like we were all single kids

8:29

in a way. But then we all occupy

8:32

an age position, you know, so I do

8:34

feel like the eldest because of age, but

8:36

not because your mom's parenting change a lot?

8:38

So. I would say

8:40

she's changed but not her parents so

8:43

her ability to execute her parenting style

8:45

has evolved with age. Like I was

8:47

talking to my youngest brother about this

8:49

the other day. It's like I don't

8:52

think my mom's vibe changed but when

8:54

I was young she could chase me.

8:56

when my brother was naughty she couldn't

8:58

chase him as much as she could

9:01

chase me so i think she then

9:03

had to adapt but over a long

9:05

distance she always got me sure she

9:07

always got me but i i always

9:10

wanted like in a big family like

9:12

because i i craved most of my

9:14

life and then i would meet people

9:16

in mega big families and they would

9:19

say oh i felt forgotten i felt

9:21

like there wasn't enough love to go

9:23

around like did you feel like Yeah,

9:26

I think just it's a resources issue.

9:28

Now having said that the economist Thomas

9:30

Sol used to say there are no

9:32

solutions, there's only tradeoffs, which I think

9:35

is just true about everything. So there's

9:37

no one thing, like that's better, because

9:39

then only children, there's like downsides to

9:41

only children apparently, ego and they don't

9:44

know how to share, they don't know

9:46

how to interact or whatever. Ah,

9:48

but they're very loved, maybe too

9:50

loved. I don't, so I don't,

9:53

I think you could persuade me

9:55

either way. I think if a

9:57

kid's loved, that's good. if, but

9:59

I wasn't necessarily like didn't get

10:01

the most love from my dad

10:03

necessarily, specifically my mom like wanted

10:05

to, but like had to cook

10:07

or whatever. Yeah. So, and she

10:09

did, but it was just, it's

10:11

just, you know, she had her

10:14

hands full. So, so I don't

10:16

know what the, I don't know

10:18

what the best, what do you,

10:20

you're, you, you're doing it. So

10:22

how do you, how do you,

10:24

I'm curious before I answer this,

10:26

do you and your siblings get

10:28

on? Are you

10:31

close? Remember that Thanksgiving story?

10:33

Yeah. That spirit remains. Oh,

10:35

I mean it's it's so

10:38

it's openly competitive. My dad

10:40

was competitive with us. So

10:43

I think that there's like

10:45

that's kind of... So he

10:48

sounds like succession. I mean...

10:50

I was about to like

10:52

your dad competing. It's white

10:55

trash succession. You said it.

10:57

No, exactly. Yeah, it's competitive.

11:00

One of my brothers used

11:02

to keep track of who

11:04

made the most money. Best

11:07

stock. Yeah. And then I,

11:09

and then Chappelle Shell happened

11:12

and he was like, this

11:14

is stupid. So,

11:16

so, so, I don't, you know, I would

11:18

say it's, it's, it's a mixed bag. I think

11:20

some are close, some are not. But the

11:22

good news about 10 kids, you don't have to

11:25

be close alone. Yeah, that's, yeah. That's what

11:27

I mean, it's multiple families in one family. Because

11:30

most of the time I feel like

11:32

your siblings sort of, not have to

11:34

be, but you have to be close

11:37

to them because these are the only

11:39

people who've shared your existence. But then

11:41

when there's 10, there's a lot of

11:43

people who've shared your existence. You can

11:45

choose within the 10. And there's also

11:47

that generational thing of my brother Joe

11:50

16 years older than me. So he

11:52

said to me recently, he's like, I

11:54

realize like we never really knew each

11:56

other. I was like, yeah, how would

11:58

we have? He moved out when I

12:01

was. four or something or maybe even

12:03

yeah yeah yeah yeah so it becomes

12:05

one an uncle thing. Also the thing

12:07

with siblings is just like if you

12:09

weren't siblings oftentimes you wouldn't be friends.

12:12

Like that's just like if you met

12:14

them in a bar, what are the

12:16

odds? But now you're forced to become

12:18

friends which is. Okay so tell me

12:20

what your plan is. And if you're

12:23

executing it. I'm reading this book called

12:25

Siblings Without Rivalry. Okay. When I'm done

12:27

with the book, I'll let you know.

12:29

I'm really afraid because I come from,

12:31

I don't know, and I don't know

12:33

if it's like African family dynamics, I

12:36

don't want to be generalized here, but

12:38

I always remember there were always like

12:40

fights about land and fights. That sounds

12:42

so parochial. I was about to say

12:44

that sounds like an insult that someone

12:47

would say. I know it sounds like

12:49

too an African. I'm just going to

12:51

listen. Go on. It sounds like Trump.

12:53

They're like, they're eating cats and dogs.

12:55

They're fighting over land. Yeah. No, no.

12:58

But like, I've just, conflict was kind

13:00

of ambient in the extended family. Me

13:02

and my sisters are figuring it out.

13:04

We're at very different phases. That's the

13:06

one. Just a few. And I sing

13:09

this feud, right? The vibranium, the tag

13:11

of the writing. Cristiana. There are a

13:13

few things you need to forecast on

13:15

with your sea bleens. You know the

13:17

way this thing for me with Black

13:19

Panther is like, sometimes when I do

13:22

that, because it's like the accent that

13:24

they're doing is a South African accent,

13:26

but they're not a South African accent.

13:28

So even when I do it, I

13:30

feel like. You have to undo. And

13:33

you were in it and do a

13:35

different accent, right? Yeah, yeah. Because I

13:37

wanted to match the general accent. So

13:39

I didn't want to come in there

13:41

with like a word. What is this

13:44

guy doing? Yeah. And then so I

13:46

was like, no, I'll try and figure

13:48

out the vibe that everyone's in. And

13:50

then I'll go from there. And then

13:52

so it's very weird for me. Are

13:55

your parents still alive? My mom is

13:57

yeah, mom is how old is she?

13:59

91. Wow, or 90, 90. Yeah, what

14:01

was it like for you when your

14:03

dad passed away? you know you you

14:06

share very openly in your special about

14:08

how like and I think you and

14:10

I've connected a lot on this growing

14:12

up in a home with a man

14:14

who's very violence with his alcohol weight

14:16

like it's a terrifying existence yeah I

14:19

think you and I don't know we

14:21

bond around this I think a lot

14:23

of our comedy is shaped by this

14:25

or this feeling but I've always wondered

14:27

what did it feel like when your

14:30

dad passed away you know the interesting

14:32

thing was like we'd kind of made

14:34

peace prior to him dying. And then

14:36

he did the thing with the Will,

14:38

which is in three mics. But... For

14:41

those who don't know, what it... Netflix

14:43

is a streaming platform. And I have

14:45

a special on there called Three Mikes,

14:47

one called blocks, and one called Crazy

14:49

Good, which is the newest one. Pretty

14:52

popular. My dad, we never really got

14:54

along. and then

14:56

he died and left money

14:58

as well to everyone but

15:00

me. So it was just

15:03

painful. That part was painful.

15:06

But we, I, I just don't,

15:08

I, it's weirdly like doing three

15:10

mics got it out of me.

15:12

Got the pain out of me.

15:15

It used to weigh down on

15:17

me, it used to be like

15:19

a cause of anger. Yeah. And

15:21

now it just, either from doing

15:24

three mics or something, I just

15:26

can kind of see the positive.

15:28

in that, and I actually wrote

15:30

him a note before he died

15:33

of like, I appreciate the socio-economic

15:35

position he put me in, meaning

15:37

like I got to go to

15:39

NYU, I'm paid for some of

15:42

it, but like NYU's not cheap.

15:44

Anything was possible. Right. Which I

15:46

think is a thing that you.

15:48

is it kind of as a

15:51

parent has got to be one

15:53

of the main goals. He one

15:55

time said like, you know, when

15:57

I was growing up, we were

16:00

told all you had to provide

16:02

your kid was food and shelter.

16:04

I remember going like, you know,

16:06

the government can do that. But

16:09

so I guess it's, he's born

16:11

in 1930, like, that's a different

16:13

world. It's just a different, and

16:15

I've gotten more, I don't even

16:18

know if I've gotten empathetic, but

16:20

I've certainly gotten less angry as

16:22

time goes on. I'm curious, were

16:24

you angry because you thought he

16:27

was trying to spite you? Because

16:29

like my instant mine goes to

16:31

as a parent, he didn't leave

16:33

you the money because you were

16:36

the most successful and he's the

16:38

kid that thought you were going

16:40

to be okay. That's like my

16:42

parents giving him discretion and yes.

16:45

But did you was your anger

16:47

because you're like oh you're trying

16:49

to spike me? Yeah, it could

16:51

go either. It's one of those

16:54

things that could be. And you

16:56

haven't, have you asked your mom?

16:58

Have you asked your siblings? Basically,

17:00

yeah, they tried to talk him

17:03

out of it. Oh, so they

17:05

knew. Yeah. So you didn't know

17:07

leading up. I didn't know. Wow.

17:09

They knew. And they tried to

17:12

talk him out of it. And

17:14

he was like, ah. And he

17:16

just, and then I've heard from

17:18

another brother. that he did, he

17:21

was sort of slagging him about

17:23

like you're just here for the

17:25

money. Oh wow. Like it was

17:27

sort of a real, he went

17:30

down swinging, so to speak. So

17:32

I don't really know what to

17:34

make of it, other than I'm

17:36

glad I don't carry it, because

17:39

it's just not, it's not helpful.

17:41

We're going to continue this conversation

17:43

right after this short break. This

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Get answers to your questions.

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Go to surveymonkey.com/dare. So

19:11

I'm curious because you guys are both

19:13

comedians, I'm not. Is comedy really that

19:15

cathartic? Because like hearing me, you say

19:17

like, I released this thing, I surrendered

19:20

it and I can put it behind

19:22

me. Is the work that is the

19:24

work? You just say it so much

19:26

that it's in a weird way you'll

19:28

relate. Yeah. It's like material you don't

19:31

believe anymore. Yeah. It's like you just,

19:33

Chappelle is an observation that jokes are

19:35

like tires. that they did the tread

19:37

wears out and if I'm doing a

19:39

show about my dad you just after

19:42

a while it's like what so there's

19:44

partially that which is just sort of

19:46

like getting tired of saying something and

19:48

I would say it's more from the

19:50

spiritual stuff of like releasing it but

19:53

there was before the spiritual stuff there

19:55

was this idea of like yeah I

19:57

don't know I think I just sort

19:59

of talked it out. out. you you talk

20:01

less personally than I do but but

20:04

than I do. show a little more. earlier show's a

20:06

little I used to speak more used to speak more

20:08

personally I won't make that - Won't make that mistake

20:10

again. was a I think there was of a weird

20:12

of a weird idea and adopted in and

20:14

around taking over the was and was like,

20:17

don't make it about you. you. Do you

20:19

know I mean? was like, I it's about

20:21

the show, it's about the work, it's

20:23

about the, you know, and now on the

20:25

other side of it, now I'm going

20:27

back into more personal material. Now I'm going

20:29

back into of it, now I'm going it's

20:31

funny, into more I I personal was cathartic. now

20:33

I'm going your early work, when you're

20:35

sharing funny, I your experience I never thought it

20:38

was wasn't, No, I'll be honest. I

20:40

don't think, and I don't it's

20:42

cathartic for most comedians, if I'm

20:44

honest. I think what happens a lot of

20:46

the time is. like, Comedians

20:48

have found a, like a,

20:50

It's almost like a almost like you can

20:52

put in front of you, to you can put

20:55

in front of you. thing, but you

20:57

are not seem like you are dealing with the

20:59

thing, but you are not dealing with the thing,

21:01

So we're speaking about it to people, so we'll be

21:03

like, oh it, you're speaking about it, so you

21:05

must be over it, or you must I don't I

21:07

don't think it's cathartic. The reason I don't think

21:09

it's cathartic is is because comedians

21:12

get get to do the thing with the

21:14

audience, so so we escape with the with the laugh.

21:16

Do you know you know what I mean?

21:18

And so I think think real requires you

21:20

to stay in something until it it is

21:22

released as opposed opposed to finding

21:24

a way to escape, know, know, know, and so...

21:26

and and Is it Is it avoidance, then?

21:28

not a psychological, like... No, look, it's not Look, it's

21:30

not I think... I I was thinking I

21:32

was thinking about this before this conversation. I

21:34

was going to ask you, to ask you, this of

21:37

comedians. is the first... the

21:39

first, I shift. I shift. I don't know

21:41

if you remember. There was a

21:43

point in comedy in comedy. where we saw every

21:45

few almost every few

21:47

months a comedian committing

21:49

suicide You would just hear it, would just

21:51

hear it you'd walk into a

21:53

comedy comedy good old days old days.

21:56

would be would be around, everyone be be around a

21:58

table in the club And

22:01

there'd just be like a sad

22:03

feeling and you'd be like, hey,

22:05

what's going on? And be like,

22:07

oh, did you hear about Bobby?

22:09

Did you hear about blah, blah,

22:11

blah? Yeah. And be like, what

22:13

happened? They're like, oh, yeah. No,

22:15

they found him in a hotel

22:17

room in Pennsylvania. They found him

22:19

in a hotel room in Ohio

22:21

or something. They found him in

22:24

a hotel room. And this was

22:26

constant. It was almost expected in

22:28

many ways. And then I don't

22:30

know what happened, but suddenly something

22:32

shifted. All of a sudden, comedians

22:34

wouldn't be ordering the chicken wings

22:36

backstage. They were ordering the celery

22:38

and the kale and the baby

22:40

carrots and the hummus, and then

22:42

they wouldn't be ordering a drink

22:44

like a cocktail or whiskey. They'd

22:46

be ordering water. you know, then

22:48

like, you know, and then comedians

22:50

would be like, oh yeah, I

22:53

got to leave now. I'm working

22:55

out in the morning. I mean,

22:57

in a way, it's a contradiction

22:59

in that that people are getting,

23:01

I think culture in general is

23:03

getting more like self-carry wellness. Yeah,

23:05

wellness. Yeah, wellness. Yeah. Now, the

23:07

thing I wanted to talk to

23:09

you about, which is the. what

23:11

I call wisdom theater or wellness

23:13

theater, performative wellness, performative wisdom, meaning

23:15

we talked about a mutual friend

23:17

of ours who wanted to be

23:19

the most healed guy. Oh Jesus,

23:22

yeah, this is killing me. Where

23:24

people go on podcast, they host

23:26

podcast, they, they, uh, no. No

23:28

offense to all of us, including

23:30

yourself, everyone, every company included. Yes,

23:32

where it becomes about performing wisdom,

23:34

performing self-care, performing altruism, performing, yeah,

23:36

performing, yeah, performing, and it's like,

23:38

this isn't it either. Do you

23:40

think it's even helpful to have

23:42

all of this like, I meditated

23:44

this morning, just all that stuff,

23:46

because I believe it's all for.

23:48

in service of being better at

23:51

capitalism. know, the easiest way to

23:53

see it, well, tell my friends,

23:55

is when you look at a

23:57

post, let's say online, as soon

23:59

as somebody says, here's how I

24:01

did it, or, you know, this

24:03

is how I became more productive,

24:05

I'm like, no, that's not the

24:07

point. Like, meditating is not about

24:09

becoming more productive. Buddha was all

24:11

about rising and grinding. If you

24:13

know the story at all, it's

24:15

all about. I don't know, I

24:17

just think we're in the age

24:20

of it right now and I

24:22

accept it, you know, and I'll

24:24

be honest, I am, I don't

24:26

mind the fact that the trend

24:28

right now is to be healthy.

24:30

Right. Because that's a fine trend.

24:32

If you're gonna, if you have

24:34

to pick trends. Yeah, I love

24:36

wellness. It's the best work hall

24:38

isn't being the best. You don't

24:40

even want to. I'm vegan. So

24:42

I don't want to talk, don't

24:44

even talk to. There. There was

24:46

a time in comedy. One thing

24:49

comedians all shared was comedy. Right?

24:51

It didn't matter like who you

24:53

were, where you were from, what

24:55

you did. Black, white, old, young,

24:57

woman, man. It really didn't matter.

24:59

It didn't matter. We had this

25:01

thing where we would go into

25:03

a comedy club and it was

25:05

like comedy time and we all

25:07

just had comedy. And

25:09

then I noticed over the past

25:11

few years, and it's funny, I'm

25:14

less worried about it for comedy

25:16

and I'm more worried about what

25:18

it means for society is, I've

25:20

noticed a creep of polarization even

25:22

in comedy. Like, comedy used to

25:24

be, everyone does everything and they're

25:26

comedians, and someone will get on

25:28

stage and say the craziest joke

25:30

that is whatever, you know, it

25:33

can be anything, misogynistic, racist, you

25:35

name it, but it's within the

25:37

confines of comedy, like they're using

25:39

the tools to make a joke

25:41

about it, right? And then now,

25:43

comedy is slowly becoming like, oh

25:45

well, those people, that's their politics,

25:47

we don't do comedy with them,

25:49

like, do you think politics is

25:52

going to end comedy as we

25:54

know it as we know it?

25:56

I it is well it's cold

25:58

it's the world like I've known

26:00

Joe Rogan 30 plus and I

26:02

didn't know his politics until nine

26:04

years ago. And

26:06

it's not because they were, he didn't

26:08

have any, it's just because you didn't

26:10

know. You literally didn't know what somebody's

26:13

politics were until, I'm gonna say 2008,

26:15

the internet, social media. And then once

26:17

social media started, then it became like

26:19

Twitter and dunking on people and you

26:21

can see so-and-so's tweet and that's, I'm

26:23

triggered and that's inappropriate and that's, they're

26:25

gonna pay, and now I have to

26:28

like, mute them or I have to

26:30

not like, I've actually thought, can I

26:32

like this tweet? because there's going to

26:34

be some sort of people who will

26:36

see that you liked yes and then

26:38

we're all part of so many different

26:40

groups that we've always been but it

26:43

just kind of didn't they weren't you

26:45

didn't wear them all all the time

26:47

yeah now it's almost like the there

26:49

was a daily show joke I think

26:51

where they had the like the the

26:53

formula one or the NASCAR sponsorships right

26:55

but it was all the badges of

26:57

like people that had donated that's where

27:00

all these things now and we used

27:02

to just not be I was thinking

27:04

this back when when Elon Musk had

27:06

the rocket come back down to earth.

27:08

I remember watching that. I texted him.

27:10

I was so excited. I've known him

27:12

29 years. You're clearly a verified user.

27:15

the yeah i watched i watched the

27:17

rocket come down first i thought it

27:19

was a fake video because it's so

27:21

amazing that it looks like you can't

27:23

did you watch the longer one like

27:25

yeah that's what i'm saying that's the

27:27

one i'm talking about wait this is

27:29

gonna land so i thought it was

27:32

going i thought someone had reversed the

27:34

video because i was like this makes

27:36

no sense yeah yeah i was like

27:38

physics what what is happening here And

27:40

I'm watching all of this and then

27:42

I texted all my friends, especially like

27:44

friends who love tech and everything. I

27:47

was like, this is the most amazing

27:49

thing. Have you seen this? And I

27:51

was like, have you? And people were

27:53

like, screw that guy. I know. I

27:55

was like, whereas you were going like,

27:57

maybe the fascism's worth it. That's not

27:59

what I was saying. That's not what

28:01

I was saying. And I've not learned

28:04

on the podcast. I have to now

28:06

be very clear that that's not what

28:08

I was. No, no, I represent me.

28:10

The, uh, no, I, and even in

28:12

my group of friends. I didn't understand,

28:14

and I still don't understand, why people

28:16

feel the need to tell me how

28:19

they feel about a thing that I

28:21

know they feel about, but I'm like,

28:23

I'm your friend, if I send you

28:25

a video of an Elon Musk rocket

28:27

being caught from space, and I go,

28:29

this is amazing, don't say to me,

28:31

Elon Musk sucks. Yeah, I know how

28:33

you feel. Yeah, they're afraid in that

28:36

thing of like, if I like this

28:38

tweet, am I going to get in

28:40

trouble? Yeah, but this is in our

28:42

own messages. I know, but with friends,

28:44

right, but it's infected that as well.

28:46

Oh man, that's terrifying to me. It

28:48

really has. I think that is terrifying

28:51

to me. Once, once people start releasing

28:53

texts in court cases. in in docs

28:55

in case any these that's like the

28:57

this is bad no this is bad

28:59

no I okay I'm gonna go on

29:01

the record and say I will never

29:03

judge anybody for texts that get released

29:06

unless those texts Indite them about something

29:08

they've done in public because of the

29:10

con it's like a comedy club It

29:12

goes back to the same rule if

29:14

we're in a comedy club We know

29:16

that the people in here are trying

29:18

to say things that elicit a laugh

29:20

from the audience So a comedian will

29:23

make a joke about anything. They'll make

29:25

a joke about murder. They'll make a

29:27

joke about genocides. They'll make a joke

29:29

about rape. It's I heard a comedian

29:31

make a joke referring to a bunch

29:33

of suicides as the good old days

29:35

that was that was on the spot

29:38

that was on one of the episodes

29:40

what go back through the episodes and

29:42

you'll find it but but but that's

29:44

what I mean is like there's the

29:46

context and and we when we maintain

29:48

that context yeah people know oh yeah

29:50

you can see something to your friend

29:52

or your family member that is egregious.

29:55

It can be the most horrible thing

29:57

towards them or towards somebody else. But

29:59

because of the context, they know that

30:01

you're joking. They know that you get

30:03

what I'm saying. And I actually worry

30:05

about that world. I don't want to

30:07

live in a world where we now

30:10

have to sort of like, thought police.

30:12

We have to now go like, I've

30:14

never had that thought. I do not

30:16

think anything that is bad could be

30:18

funny. I do not think. Never say

30:20

in private what you won't stand behind

30:22

in public. No, but it's a joke.

30:24

I wouldn't say anything. But as you

30:27

know, I say crazy stuff in private.

30:29

You do actually. You do actually. There's

30:31

no difference between private and public. Yeah,

30:33

obviously there are private acts. There's things

30:35

that you do in private that you

30:37

will never do in public. But just

30:39

be who you are. I think it's

30:42

easier. Have you ever been on a

30:44

group chat or even a one-to-one chat

30:46

where someone's texted something. And you've been

30:48

like, boy, that's hot. Yeah, I mean,

30:50

that's what text are for. I agree.

30:52

Every group, yeah, with me. But have

30:54

you ever gone, do I give it

30:56

a ha ha? Do I give it

30:59

a thumbs up? What do I give

31:01

this? And if it ever goes public?

31:03

I've truly had that thought. So I

31:05

think that society, you know, it's not

31:07

to delve too deep into the world

31:09

of like the shadow self and all

31:11

of these things, but We need to

31:14

accept that as human beings, the paradox

31:16

of the brain is that it is

31:18

thinking about what it should not think

31:20

about even when we're telling it to

31:22

think about something. It's mostly an intrusive

31:24

thought. Exactly. Everything. 90% intrusive. When I'm

31:26

on the freeway, most of the time

31:29

I'm thinking crash that. Run over there,

31:31

run over there, run over there, crash

31:33

that, crack. I'm not doing it though,

31:35

but my brain is going, what would

31:37

happen? What would happen? What would happen?

31:39

You know what I mean? So I

31:41

actually personally as Trevor, I go, I

31:43

judge people based on their actions, not

31:46

on their thoughts, because I go, that

31:48

is in my opinion what makes you

31:50

a good person, is that you act

31:52

in a way that is good for

31:54

other people or for yourself. you don't

31:56

follow all the thoughts that are, in

31:58

fact, if you follow all the thoughts,

32:01

I think they would put you in

32:03

an asylum. They would say that you

32:05

are, you listen to the voices in

32:07

your head. You just be in jail.

32:09

Exactly. I personally just feel suspicious of

32:11

people who are like nice about people

32:13

all the time. Just like that person

32:15

is. Oh, I mean, that is true.

32:18

No, but that's the world we're in

32:20

right now. Like, if you say anything

32:22

about anyone public or private, it has

32:24

to be a public or private, it.

32:26

It's not the human experience. Sometimes, like,

32:28

because I'm like, oh, I don't like

32:30

them. And people are like, why? I'm

32:33

just like, it's just a feeling. They've

32:35

done that thing. I just, like, that's

32:37

a real thing to have, like, this

32:39

visceral reaction to someone. But I think

32:41

the way our politics are and the

32:43

way the world is going is just,

32:45

the, the, the, the, the, uh, it's

32:47

creeping. Do you think it's hurt comedy

32:50

as a whole? Okay.

32:52

I don't, I mean, I don't, there's

32:55

no comedy, first of all, it's never

32:57

been more popular. It's never been more

32:59

lucrative. So this idea that comedy is

33:01

being hurt or cancel culture, any of

33:03

that stuff, it's like, everyone I know

33:05

that. I want to

33:07

do a joke like, yeah, you

33:09

got to be careful as a

33:11

comedian because, you know, you could

33:14

say something and then somebody will

33:16

clip it and then next thing

33:18

you know, you'll be doing arenas.

33:20

It's everyone I know that gets

33:22

canceled, you get canceled up. It's

33:24

like, it's like, it's the crucible.

33:26

It's like, how are you going

33:28

to respond to this? Yes. And

33:30

then that's how people judge you.

33:32

But it makes the audience. trust

33:34

you more, I think? Yes. I

33:36

remember I bumped into Shane Gillis

33:38

and I remember chatting to him

33:40

and I was like, and I

33:42

genuinely mean this, I was like,

33:44

I am so proud of Shane

33:46

Gillis as a human being and

33:48

as a comedian because he got

33:50

fired off of S&L, people discarded

33:52

him, they're like he's out. he

33:54

amassed a huge amount of fans

33:56

who were like, yeah, bring more,

33:58

they were like, bring more races,

34:00

bring more, they were like, do

34:02

the thing that, and I'll never

34:04

forget his first shows that he

34:06

booked, I think was at the

34:08

stand actually in New York. Shane

34:10

comes out and he basically addresses

34:12

the fact that people have come

34:14

there to see racist joke and

34:16

he's like that's not what I

34:18

do. Same noodle like a Chinese

34:20

person. Yeah and he and he

34:22

didn't and then he subverted the

34:24

whole thing and he joked about

34:26

it and then he And even

34:28

now, like I go genuinely, Shane

34:30

Gillis is one of the people

34:32

where, and I don't think anyone,

34:34

quote unquote, let's say has an

34:36

excuse, but he would have had

34:38

an excuse to be an asshole.

34:40

Shane was like, no, he's like,

34:42

hey man, I made some jokes,

34:44

you didn't like them. I'm still

34:46

gonna make jokes, and genuinely now,

34:48

I think he's one of the

34:50

best comedians working in the world,

34:52

and when you watch his comedy,

34:54

supports the worst instincts. Yeah. You

34:56

know, because someone, one person can

34:58

go, Neil, how could you say

35:01

that? You get canceled. And then

35:03

what happens is there's a crowd

35:05

that comes in to like claim

35:07

you. And they're like, yes, Neil.

35:09

Yes. Yeah. Join us. We all

35:11

the things. Yes. And you know

35:13

how we feel about those people.

35:15

And you're like, man, I just

35:17

made a joke that some people

35:19

didn't like. And they're like, no,

35:21

but Neil, do only those jokes.

35:23

Do only those jokes. Yeah. And

35:25

Shane, I don't know, do only

35:27

those jokes. Because that must have

35:29

been really hard. I think he

35:31

shrugged it all. He just seemed

35:33

to kind of go like, I

35:35

don't know how though. This next

35:37

segment, Core Memories, is brought to

35:39

you by Starbucks. The holidays aren't

35:41

just about grand gestures, but the

35:43

little moments that bring warmth, connection,

35:45

and joy to the season. I

35:48

remember the first time I experienced

35:50

a winter Christmas in America. It

35:52

felt like I was stepping into

35:54

a movie. Because you see, back

35:56

home in South Africa, Christmas is

35:58

all about summer, right? It's barbecues.

36:00

drinks and running around outside in the the

36:02

That's how I grew up. how I But

36:05

here I was. here I was, by

36:07

the window window, snowflakes

36:09

fall. I'd only only

36:11

ever seen on TV before. Everything

36:13

felt so still like the world outside

36:15

had been wrapped in a thick cozy

36:18

blanket. Inside it was it

36:20

was warm. too too warm to be

36:22

honest. The heat was on and

36:24

there was a smell of cinnamon in

36:26

the air, which, by the way, Americans

36:28

love. love. I I couldn't help but

36:30

laugh at myself. laugh at I was bundled in

36:33

three layers of clothing, of even though

36:35

everyone else seemed perfectly comfortable in

36:37

their one sweater. their one sweater. A

36:39

very ugly sweater. We spent spent the

36:41

evening indoors playing board games where people

36:43

were fighting over sheep. I still don't

36:45

understand what that game was about. But

36:47

what struck me, was the was of it

36:49

all. of it all. Everyone together.

36:51

together and the sound of laughter

36:53

filled the room. a It was

36:55

such a contrast to the Christmases I had

36:57

grown up with with everything was loud and

36:59

outdoors and this was slower slower was more intimate.

37:01

more intimate. And honestly, I loved

37:04

it just as much. There's There's something

37:06

magical about being stuck inside, because of

37:08

the cold, surrounded by people you

37:10

care about, while the rest of the

37:12

world feels feels it's standing still. still.

37:14

That was the the moment I realized, Christmas

37:16

is not really really about the weather the

37:19

food. food. about who It's all about

37:21

who you spend it with. no There's

37:23

no denying, moments like these are

37:25

so much more magical when they're

37:27

paired with the comforting flavors of

37:29

the season. season. Create

37:31

core memories this holiday season.

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Order your favorite holiday beverage

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on the Starbucks Starbucks app today. You

37:39

get in trouble from time to time, and I

37:41

don't say that I but say that do you, how

37:43

do you, how do you? how do you what's

37:46

your your philosophy? so it's funny it's

37:48

funny, Christiana and I were talking

37:50

about talking literally talking about literally talking about this

37:52

so episode on the podcast, right?

37:54

I had, the you name it, I had

37:56

had people phoning me. Everybody from

37:59

everywhere. from everywhere you know every like you run

38:01

the spectrum from friends friends close friends going

38:03

like Trevor like how could you have that

38:05

man on and that is extremist and it's

38:07

anti-Semitic and this is trash and why would

38:09

you even sit there and listen to him

38:11

and all the way through to strangers just

38:13

being like this is why you should be

38:15

dead I wish apartheid had killed you and

38:18

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

38:20

So you got my message. And the two

38:22

of you know me in those moments more

38:24

than most people, right? And the first thing

38:26

I do is listen. Because I go like,

38:28

all right, tell me everything. Just tell me

38:30

everything. You know? And so like a friend

38:32

of mine would just be like, oh, he's

38:34

like, you know, I can't believe you. Why

38:36

didn't you ask Tanasi this? And why didn't

38:39

you ask him to? And I responded and

38:41

I said, I was like, hey, the same

38:43

way if somebody's coming to talk about like

38:45

their documentary about something that happened in Israel,

38:47

I'm not going to push them on everything

38:49

about what's happening in Gaza because this is

38:51

the part of the story that we're here

38:53

to talk about. And it was interesting, like

38:55

when I have those conversations, I just listened

38:57

to what the person is saying, what they're

39:00

feeling, and then I try and understand where

39:02

we're missing each other. So the one note,

39:04

for instance, I said to a friend, one

39:06

of my friends he was he was like

39:08

I hated the fact that you you talked

39:10

about Jewish people and then you talked about

39:12

Israel into what Jewish people but then you

39:14

conflated the two and I was like oh

39:16

yeah actually you're right okay yeah I was

39:19

like that's what I'm curious about how much

39:21

Because I find that, how much does

39:23

your listening affect your judgment? How big

39:25

does, how big is the, how much

39:28

growth is there? Go ahead. Because to

39:30

me, I always see Trevor as very

39:32

like unflappable. Maybe that's like the Swiss

39:34

German, like the veneer. I'm like, no,

39:36

he seems unprofable. So I was like,

39:38

because it was like the backlash was

39:40

a bit weird. So I hit him

39:42

up, but I think Trevor just heals

39:45

quickly and better. I call him Wolverine.

39:47

Like he like heals very quickly and

39:49

better. Because he takes a ton of

39:51

steroids? Go ahead. No, maybe. I don't

39:53

know. It's the shroom. think. But no,

39:55

like, I think he does feel it.

39:57

That's what I'm saying. No, I feel

40:00

all of it. I feel all of

40:02

it. I feel all of it. What

40:04

do you do? Very sensitive. No, I

40:06

am very sensitive and I feel all

40:08

of it. I'm very sensitive. No, I

40:10

am very sensitive and I feel all

40:12

of it. I wouldn't have, I'm like,

40:14

but you don't, like, you don't see

40:17

it. So, First of all, I grew

40:19

up in a house and in a

40:21

country where there was a lot of

40:23

violence, right? And so when I was

40:25

a child watching this, I never once

40:27

looked at it and went, yeah, this

40:29

is right. I even talked to my

40:31

mom now and I go, why would

40:34

you get so angry when you were

40:36

hitting me? And she's like, because you

40:38

wouldn't listen. I'm like, yeah, but why

40:40

did you get angry though? I was

40:42

like, you know, you could have just

40:44

like done it as like a, all

40:46

right kid, here comes your punishment. And

40:48

then she would say, she's like, I

40:51

was so frustrated. And I was like,

40:53

I know I, you know, cut something

40:55

open, I know I dismantled the TV,

40:57

I know I burnt the TV, I

40:59

know I burnt down a room, whatever

41:01

I did. I would feel everything. But

41:03

the thing that would stick with me

41:05

is how it didn't make sense for

41:08

people to lose their cool. And I,

41:10

you know, I talked to my friends

41:12

about them, we have these big fights,

41:14

but I go, every one of our

41:16

parents, especially African parents, but I mean,

41:18

I know, you know how Neil grew

41:20

up. You know, parents were beating kids.

41:23

And this was like a normal thing.

41:25

And now we joke about it. You

41:27

be like, oh, you pray there's no

41:29

shoe around. And you pray, like Eddie

41:31

Murphy had those jokes. And we all

41:33

laughed, and we all laughed about it.

41:35

But. I think I grew up watching

41:37

this going, huh, it doesn't seem to

41:40

be ideal and it doesn't seem to

41:42

get where I'm going. So maybe what

41:44

I did a little too much was

41:46

I internalize it, so I keep it

41:48

in me. But then what I do

41:50

is I, and that's where ADHD helps,

41:52

I'm having six conversations now at the

41:54

same time. So you're speaking to me

41:57

and I'm listening to what you're saying

41:59

and then I'm sort of. to like

42:01

one tree which is like okay how

42:03

do I agree with you how do

42:05

I disagree with you what's happening here

42:07

what's not happening here do I connect

42:09

with you do I not connect with

42:11

you can I see your humanity and

42:14

I always go if I see you

42:16

as a person which I do with

42:18

most human beings on the sort of

42:20

genuinely I go like I'll still find

42:22

something to connect with you on and

42:24

so on the other side of it

42:26

when you ask me like how much

42:28

does it change me I genuinely listen

42:31

so The person almost only has to

42:33

tell me once and I will keep

42:35

that because it means something. So when

42:37

my friend said to me, my friend

42:39

who's Jewish and spent time in Israel

42:41

said, I didn't like that you said

42:43

Jewish and Israel, but you conflated the

42:46

two and I was like, oh, okay.

42:48

I will never do that again. But

42:50

then when it comes to like arguing

42:52

about whether or not it's an apartheid

42:54

state, I said, you are my friend

42:56

and I love you, but we're not

42:58

going to agree on this. And I

43:00

don't think we need to agree on

43:03

this to remain friends. In fact, as

43:05

my friend, I hope that you'll still

43:07

keep me in your life and I

43:09

will work to keep you in my

43:11

life, but I don't want to lose

43:13

you because of this thing, because there

43:15

are so many things that we're going

43:17

to disagree on. This is just one

43:20

of the biggest one of the biggest

43:22

ones, you know, you know, you know,

43:24

you know, you know, you know, And

43:26

I don't know, you know, you know,

43:28

whether it's just this moment in time

43:30

or social media, I don't know what

43:32

it is, but I feel like people

43:34

are, like people have less and less

43:37

ability now to maintain friendships or to

43:39

maintain connections that also hold a space

43:41

of disagreement or conflict. It's the same

43:43

thing. It's that thing about if I

43:45

like, if I write ha ha. to

43:47

this text. You have this constituency in

43:49

your head or imagined or whatever that

43:51

I can't say disagree on this but

43:54

love you the same because then you'll

43:56

lose your constituency. Yeah and you see

43:58

for me that that I don't think

44:00

that's I don't think that moves us

44:02

forward because I've always believed that people

44:04

don't change by hanging out with people

44:06

who are like them. I agree. I

44:09

think we change by rubbing on each

44:11

other. on each other and I think

44:13

the common humanity that's why I come

44:15

back to stand up. I think of

44:17

the comedians I used to meet in

44:19

comedy clubs and I still till this

44:21

day I mean everything racist misogynistic you

44:23

whatever you want to call it but

44:26

they were also human beings yeah you

44:28

know what I mean and I'm not

44:30

excusing any of the things they did

44:32

the same way I'm sure someone wouldn't

44:34

excuse some of the things I did

44:36

or said or said or as a

44:38

person you all have your faults. But

44:40

I would, the one thing that would

44:43

connect us first and foremost is that

44:45

we were comedians. You remember we'd even

44:47

say as comedians, you'd be like, man,

44:49

have you seen that guy's new bit?

44:51

You'd be like, it is the most

44:53

racist bit you've ever said, but God,

44:55

it's funny. Yeah. And holding that paradox.

44:57

holding that cognitive dissonance I think was

45:00

key to us and I you would

45:02

see not all but you would see

45:04

a lot of the comedians evolve over

45:06

time because society would evolve and you

45:08

would shift and you and you'd find

45:10

a lot of the comedians who were

45:12

doing the jokes they were doing back

45:14

in the day wouldn't do them anymore

45:17

and they would evolve. slowly. My objection

45:19

to this primarily is like it's fine

45:21

when it's all like theoretical, we're working

45:23

on jokes, that person's a bit racist,

45:25

that person's a bit misogynistic, but we're

45:27

living in a time where women currently

45:29

can't get abortions in many cases. So

45:32

there's like real world implications whether it's...

45:34

sexism, racism, transphobia. So I think it's

45:36

difficult because these people in our lives

45:38

that have unsavory views, it feels like

45:40

they're winning. I feel like the world

45:42

is shifting to the right. I feel

45:44

like the world is a scarier place

45:46

and that's like just true. Like you

45:49

look at elections, you look at all

45:51

of this stuff. And so I was

45:53

like, it's harder for people to be

45:55

like, well, I can see you as

45:57

a whole human being when your vote

45:59

is the reason that like I was

46:01

terrified to do IVF in Texas. Because

46:03

I was like, well, I'm a woman

46:06

with the history of loss. And if

46:08

I need to get a DNC, will

46:10

I be able to get one? Will

46:12

a doctor give me one? So there's

46:14

like real implications for like these controversial.

46:16

wing or even like super far left

46:18

ideas and some people are like I

46:20

actually don't want to be around that

46:23

in my personal life and I don't

46:25

blame them do you know what I

46:27

mean? Of course and that's I in

46:29

the two thoughts I had is it's

46:31

a bit like being friends with people

46:33

who don't get along and you're like

46:35

I was just with you have lunch

46:37

with somebody yeah yeah and then you're

46:40

like yeah and you're like am I

46:42

a piece of garbage? Both of these

46:44

people have been good to me. Yeah.

46:46

And then the other thing I, the

46:48

other thought I had was, does, do

46:50

jokes lead to action? If you make

46:52

a joke, does that mean you stand

46:55

with that? Yeah. Yeah. And I, and

46:57

that's where comedy comes in, because it's

46:59

like, do I, I don't know, I

47:01

can make a joke about anything. I

47:03

don't stand with it. It just, my

47:05

brain made, did that construction, and I

47:07

was like, this might be fun. But

47:09

if a comedian does their job properly

47:12

and the joke is good enough, you

47:14

won't get in trouble. So I used

47:16

to think that, but then I realized

47:18

we've robbed the world of context. You

47:20

know, and on one of the previous,

47:22

one of our previous episodes here, when

47:24

Yaval Noah was here, right? Talk, the

47:26

author of Sapians and the nexus, he

47:29

said something that really stuck with me

47:31

and it was, we are living in

47:33

an age where we have more information,

47:35

where we have more information, but, we

47:37

don't have enough time to process it.

47:39

And I think the problem with like

47:41

comedy now, let's say, or jokes even,

47:43

is there's no context anymore. Yeah. You

47:46

know? Then even when Twitter began, the

47:48

first people who followed comedians on Twitter

47:50

and people all agree that this was

47:52

a place where people are making jokes.

47:54

They are not real things. Right? And

47:56

then the context spread the algorithm moved

47:58

things around now you're sitting at home

48:00

Minding your own business You're a super

48:03

religious person and then some video will

48:05

come on your feed where someone's trashing

48:07

religion Making jokes about it you're like,

48:09

you get angry, but there's no context.

48:11

You didn't want to see that. You

48:13

didn't ask to see and that's I

48:15

think that's like one of my key

48:18

issues with social media is the fact

48:20

that people are not asking to see

48:22

they're not opting in in any way.

48:24

You know, I feel like it should

48:26

be like an opt in as opposed

48:28

to an opt out. But people are

48:30

seeing videos that they don't want to

48:32

see videos that are like actively making

48:35

them angry or sad or sad or

48:37

more afraid, or more afraid, etc. And

48:39

I think that's actually. hurting comedy and

48:41

hurting the idea of comedy as opposed

48:43

to it being or not being. That

48:45

doesn't make sense. I also think that

48:47

there's some things that people should be

48:49

shah, listen I like shame. I'm not

48:52

like, you love shame. I'm like, you

48:54

love shame. And I'm just like, it's

48:56

one of my kings. Whether you're a

48:58

comedian, whoever you are. I don't kink

49:00

shame. You know, I'm proud of you.

49:02

So the one place doesn't shame is

49:04

Kink. Okay. No, Kink. Oh, no. But

49:06

it's like, there's some things that if

49:09

you... Either way, I have an erection.

49:11

Go ahead. No, I'm just like, there's

49:13

some things, if you say them, they

49:15

could be consequences. Like, I know every

49:17

time I say something, I'm trying to

49:19

teach my kids, something if I've had

49:21

to learn the hard ways, like you

49:24

say stuff, sometimes people get offended, sometimes

49:26

people get offended, Civil rights are a

49:28

little wobbly in certain respects, right? And,

49:30

but there's also people, there's a huge

49:32

incentive to grievance. There's an incentive, the

49:34

incentive to being in a conversation used

49:36

to be, somebody make a joke, you'd

49:38

laugh. The incentive was to like be

49:41

agreeable and be open-minded. Yeah, in some

49:43

way. And now the incentive is to

49:45

take offense. and to be like, this

49:47

is a chance for me to get

49:49

all my picket signs out and represent

49:51

for my invisible constituents. I agree, but

49:53

I think we're also in a time

49:55

for a lot of people where they

49:58

feel there's a lot to be aggrieved

50:00

about. I agree. So we just have

50:02

to acknowledge that like people are constantly

50:04

offended because the world is very offensive.

50:06

the other side of getting offended. And

50:08

I say this from the, let's take

50:10

comedy out of it for a moment,

50:12

I think of language. So I speak

50:15

many languages, as you know, Neil Brennan.

50:17

And one of the things I love

50:19

about speaking multiple languages is the fact

50:21

that you learn how offensive, the same

50:23

thing is in another culture, in another

50:25

language. You didn't change anything. You moved

50:27

your hand in a different way. You

50:29

did a thumbs up in one country

50:32

and they're like, what did you say

50:34

about my father? And you're like, wait,

50:36

what? You put your hand under your

50:38

chin in one country and they're like,

50:40

what are you saying about my family?

50:42

Which never do you adjust? You adjust

50:44

in different contexts, right? But that's because

50:47

I've moved to places, right? We are

50:49

no longer moving. So we now live

50:51

in a world. So there's nine different

50:53

languages. That's what I mean. So we're

50:55

no longer moving. Before it made sense,

50:57

I go to Dubai. When I'm in

50:59

Dubai, I acknowledge I'm in the United

51:01

Arab Emirates. I will respect the cultures

51:04

and the laws accordingly. When I go

51:06

to South Africa, I will respect my

51:08

people and I will work accordingly. I

51:10

do this everywhere. I do this everywhere.

51:12

I do this every way. You're at

51:14

home tweeting your friend, tick-tocking your people,

51:16

you're not going anywhere, and then it

51:18

takes you where the people don't agree

51:21

with you, but you didn't go there.

51:23

That's what I'm trying to say. And

51:25

so the problem with offense is that

51:27

everything is offensive to everyone if there

51:29

is no context. So you can literally

51:31

say something, you could say to your

51:33

own grandparent, you'd be like, how old

51:35

are you, and they're like, ha ha.

51:38

Yeah. You take that video, you put

51:40

it on your own social media page.

51:42

For you and your few fans and

51:44

your people, you might have 20 followers.

51:46

For some reason it sparks something. All

51:48

of a sudden, there's a delusion of

51:50

people coming to you saying, how dare

51:52

you? Do you know what ageism does

51:55

to our culture? You're discarding. I don't

51:57

care that they laugh. They probably laugh

51:59

because they scared of you. And you're

52:01

like, and you're like, no, this is

52:03

my grandparent. I've seen comedians who have

52:05

disabilities, deaf, blind, they have MS, cerebral

52:07

palsy, whatever it is, they make a

52:10

joke online. People don't know that they

52:12

have that disability and they just come

52:14

off them. How could you, how dare

52:16

you, piece of trash you? And then

52:18

their fans come in and go like,

52:20

excuse me, they have the disability. And

52:22

then people like, oh, I didn't know.

52:24

Oh, well, that's so funny. And I'm

52:27

like, what just changed? Nothing has changed.

52:29

Your context and the way you saw

52:31

the thing changed. And so I do

52:33

agree with you. Yes, words of consequences.

52:35

Yes, but I think we should never

52:37

take for granted our participation in some

52:39

of these ideas where we are choosing

52:41

to get angry on some of it.

52:44

We are choosing to take it like

52:46

and make it like, ah. Personally, I

52:48

do this in my life with my

52:50

friends with my people. I encourage people.

52:52

to just, it's almost like filtering, focus

52:54

on the things that you should actually

52:56

be angry about, because there's a lot

52:58

of things that actually it's like, oh,

53:01

you just misinterpreted it. You really just

53:03

misinterpreted it. It's a different perspective, different

53:05

language, different culture, different vibe, different vibe,

53:07

different story, and it actually doesn't spoil

53:09

your life. We're going to continue this

53:11

conversation right after this short break. I

53:21

don't know what the solution to this

53:23

is, but I still go back to

53:25

my belief that the solution doesn't lie

53:27

in people siloing themselves. I believe as

53:29

Trevor, this person has no incentive and

53:31

will never even shift a little bit

53:33

if I'm not in their life. And

53:35

I will never see their perspective if

53:37

I'm not in their life. Trevor, you

53:39

have that Kumbayam and Mandela stuff. But

53:41

it's not Kumbayam. Yeah, yeah, no, but

53:43

it's something. You jived her. No, no,

53:45

I'm saying, okay, Trevor hired me because

53:48

I was on Twitter talking shit about

53:50

the daily show. That's how we met.

53:52

That's not why. You see. why was

53:54

wrong wait no but you came across

53:56

my tweets yes oh this person really

53:58

disagrees with what I'm doing on the

54:00

daily show you found me interesting my

54:02

mind yeah but that's but I'm recommending

54:04

you he's a type of guy that

54:06

we like see those tweets you know

54:08

you know I'm a hire that bitch

54:10

that is Trevor like he just is

54:13

that's a direct quote is a direct

54:15

quote But it's like even the way

54:17

he has his right Israel. And look

54:19

at where we are now. You are

54:21

part of helping me win an Emmy.

54:23

You are part of helping make the

54:25

show the best thing it's ever been.

54:27

I'm like, I don't know how you

54:29

hold that. It's something I really admire

54:31

as someone who can be very tribal.

54:33

Actually. Politically, my friends are all over

54:35

on that. Have you changed in any

54:37

way? That's what I'm hearing from. She

54:40

definitely has. I've changed my opinion about

54:42

lots of stuff. No. It's like, do

54:44

I completely disregard that version? So can

54:46

I just say something about both of

54:48

you real quick? As your friend, both

54:50

of you, changed because of me, because

54:52

you're in my life. So, Christina, I've

54:54

watched you become funnier. and looser as

54:56

a person in the time that I've

54:58

known you like I've literally watched you

55:00

when so I like what you said

55:02

but like with the Twitter thing yes

55:04

you were trash talking me and trash

55:07

talking the daily show and everything but

55:09

more importantly I saw somebody who was

55:11

super smart really like the way you

55:13

saw the world and the way you

55:15

like understood ideas and what you brought

55:17

in and your journalistic brain I was

55:19

like damn this is amazing I didn't,

55:21

I wasn't hiring people on Twitter who

55:23

were just like, Trevor Noah, you suck,

55:25

go back to your country. I wasn't

55:27

like, yeah, this person needs to come

55:29

to the Daily Show. It's not about

55:31

that. I'm able to look. I already

55:34

worked there. Go ahead. I'm able to

55:36

look at the thing that lies beneath

55:38

how you respond to me. And I

55:40

admire it. And so like, so when

55:42

I look at the two of you,

55:44

you've become funnier, like more chill, more

55:46

everything. Right, Neil, let me tell you

55:48

something, when I met Neil Brennan, so

55:50

I'll take you on a little journey.

55:52

When I met Neil Brennan for the

55:54

very first time, I was on Twitter

55:56

and this was the good old days

55:59

of Twitter where people were just making

56:01

jokes. was just jokes. Christina came and

56:03

made on Friday. Go ahead. And there

56:05

was just jokes. And I remember Neil

56:07

had really funny jokes on Twitter. And

56:09

I was like, this guy's funny. And

56:11

I followed him. And then it said

56:13

co-creates of Chappelle Show. And I was

56:15

like, wait, what? And I went in.

56:17

I hadn't even watched the Chappelle Show

56:19

in that way. I never had cable.

56:21

I couldn't afford it. All these things.

56:23

Robscary, whatever. You know how it. But

56:26

I then went and I watched the

56:28

show and then I saw the first

56:30

sketch, the black white supremacist, and then

56:32

you're in the back then, like your

56:34

head explodes. But then I like started,

56:36

Reese, I was like, damn, this guy's

56:38

funny and he's just been in everything

56:40

that I love. So I follow him

56:42

on Twitter and now I just love

56:44

his jokes. And then I

56:46

come to America for the first time doing

56:48

like random shows and I meet him at

56:51

the comedy store in Los Angeles. And I'm

56:53

walking through the corridors there, very dark, very

56:55

sad, satanic energy. It really is. And I

56:57

walked in and I saw his face and

56:59

I was like, wait a minute. It's like

57:02

Neil Brennan. And he, I was like, I

57:04

know you, he's like, doesn't everyone. What are

57:06

you from another country? Yeah, it was very

57:08

like, I was like, wow. Just cigarette. And

57:10

I was like, what? And I was like,

57:13

yeah, hey, nice to meet you. I was

57:15

like, I love you, follow you on Twitter,

57:17

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And

57:19

Neil was like, ah. Okay, whatever man. And,

57:21

and like, just very like, you know, leaning

57:23

against the wall, like, like, it's almost like

57:26

a scene from Greece, but without the leather

57:28

jacket, just like leaning on the wall, and

57:30

it's like, whatever kid, keep in moving. And

57:32

I walked, I walked in, I went to

57:34

do my sets or something, and then when

57:37

I was walking out, Neil goes like, hey,

57:39

wait a minute, where you from? He's like,

57:41

I'm from South Africa, and he's like, Are

57:43

you the guy? He's like, you followed me?

57:45

I was like, yeah, I follow you. He's

57:47

like, you're the reason I've got people, what

57:50

did you say? You said, you're the reason

57:52

I've got people with exclamation marks in their

57:54

names following me. You said like one day

57:56

I was on my Twitter clicks and it

57:58

was just like, one day I was on

58:01

my Twitter clicks and it was just like

58:03

Brad and Jenny following me. And then the

58:05

next date was like, and I was like,

58:07

yeah, we're terrifying. And I was like, that's

58:09

my friend, Or Lisa, probably. I told him

58:12

about your tweets. And that's how we meet.

58:14

Yeah. Neil was like, and I hope you

58:16

don't mind me saying, but like Neil was,

58:18

I mean, you were grumpy, you were just

58:20

like, the world is like, everything is bad,

58:22

energetically dark, always just like, everything is shit,

58:25

and God, what are you, no religion, and

58:27

just like, and why are you smiling? He

58:29

used to hate that I smile, he's like,

58:31

are you serious? Neil would even say to

58:33

me sometimes like, what are you so happy

58:36

about? I don't think I said. He said

58:38

that. I may have energetically said it. He

58:40

said, no, he said it. He said, what

58:42

are you so happy about? In fact, in

58:44

fact, he has a fun story. Neil, I've

58:46

told the story before somewhere, I'm sure, but

58:49

maybe with you, but like, Neil, I remember,

58:51

you know, you know, I remember, you know,

58:53

you know, but maybe with you, I remember,

58:55

you know, you was doing the improv, I

58:57

think, we've both done our thing, I think,

59:00

I think, I think, I've both done our

59:02

shows, I said, I said, I said, he

59:04

said, he said, he said, he said, he

59:06

said, he said, he said, he said, he

59:08

said, he said, he said, he said, he

59:11

said, he said, he said, he said, he

59:13

said, he said, he said, he said, he

59:15

said, he said, he said, he said, he

59:17

said, he said, he And then, classic Neil

59:19

with his cynicism, you know, Neil's like, how

59:21

was your weekend? Did you make enough money

59:24

to barely pay for your flights and your

59:26

food? You idiot, you African fool. Yeah. And

59:28

I was like, yeah, because we made no

59:30

money. Yeah. Basically as a comedian you were

59:32

lucky if you came home with a little

59:35

money from the road. Yeah, you're just breaking

59:37

even that's yeah Yeah, this is 12 years

59:39

ago. Yeah, this is 12 years ago and

59:41

At some point Neil turns to me and

59:43

he goes, what are you doing here? Yeah.

59:46

And I was like, what do you mean?

59:48

And he's like, man, he's like, I've seen

59:50

your life in South Africa. He's like, why

59:52

are you doing this? He's like, go home.

59:54

People love you. Yeah, he told me to

59:56

go back to where I came from. And

59:59

he's like, people, people love you. then you're

1:00:01

doing arenas he's like here you're in a

1:00:03

comedy club where people came in for free

1:00:05

and they don't know you they don't even

1:00:07

like you and he's like why he's like

1:00:10

America he's like America's not ready for what

1:00:12

did you say America's not ready for someone

1:00:14

don't like foreign yes Yeah, you were like,

1:00:16

Americans don't like foreign comedians. And then we

1:00:18

went through a list and he wasn't wrong.

1:00:20

He's like, Ricky Gervais is the only one

1:00:23

who made an impact. And they made a

1:00:25

show, but they made Americans. Yes, yes. And

1:00:27

then, and then Neil said this to me

1:00:29

and we had this discussion back and forth

1:00:31

for a while, back and forth a while.

1:00:34

And I was like, I took it in

1:00:36

a good way. I was like, you know

1:00:38

what, Neil? It's like, thank you. What like

1:00:40

wonderful. You're such a good friend. He's like,

1:00:42

I don't even know if I'm your friend.

1:00:45

We just we just do the same city.

1:00:47

But I always and I've always seen this

1:00:49

you know, I've always said that I was

1:00:51

always like, what a sweet loving guy. I

1:00:53

was like, this is a sweet loving human

1:00:55

being who has been hurt by something and

1:00:58

someone in the world. And now he wears

1:01:00

like a little shell on the outside. Yeah,

1:01:02

the same way I see you. Yeah. The

1:01:04

same way I see everyone, genuinely. We see

1:01:06

past all this, Christiana, to the real you.

1:01:09

I don't like to be seen by the

1:01:11

way, so it was very uncomfortable. So I

1:01:13

was like, this guy's a nice, because I

1:01:15

think, I meet people sometimes who are very

1:01:17

nice, and I go, this person is an

1:01:20

asshole, and I do not want to know

1:01:22

them as a human being. they will burn

1:01:24

your life down if they get the chance.

1:01:26

And then I meet people who are prickly

1:01:28

and I'm like, you, you're a good person.

1:01:30

You know, you hide. I'd also like to

1:01:33

say that once John Oliver made it, I

1:01:35

called him. This was really funny and said,

1:01:37

okay, you can come back. No joke. I

1:01:39

stand correct. Yes, he literally phoned me. Yes.

1:01:41

And I was in South Africa. Yes. I

1:01:44

go, all right, you can come back. Because

1:01:46

there was no, it was kind of pointless

1:01:48

pointless. Yeah. But my point is, when did

1:01:50

he get sweeter? But this is what I'm

1:01:52

saying. I got sweeter over time, especially in

1:01:54

the last five years. What happened? I remember

1:01:57

telling you about therapy and you were like,

1:01:59

mamma. You didn't tell me about therapy. No,

1:02:01

I remember talking to you about therapy. You

1:02:03

were like, mamma. Did you get to therapy?

1:02:05

I've been going to therapy since something. 23.

1:02:08

Yeah but now you went into like once

1:02:10

Trevor told me about no you know you

1:02:12

know you know what I mean you opened

1:02:14

your heart Neil. I have my heart from

1:02:16

Iowa skin DMT and MDMA. I'm sorry I

1:02:19

don't know who did you tell who did

1:02:21

you tell about religion who did you call

1:02:23

when you said like I now believe they

1:02:25

might be a god. You were one of

1:02:27

the first people I believe I talked. Really?

1:02:29

Yeah. So, because I knew he'd like it.

1:02:32

But you know what Trevor back to you,

1:02:34

because Trevor doesn't like to speak about himself.

1:02:36

Even cared that I would like him. I

1:02:38

remember what people are into. Yes, which is

1:02:40

a nice, that's what I mean. And I

1:02:43

genuinely mean. Yeah, I seem, I seem jerky,

1:02:45

but was kind. That's my point. That's my

1:02:47

point. But Trevor, the thing about you, because

1:02:49

you don't like talking about yourself, but I

1:02:51

want to make it about you, that I

1:02:54

find remarkable, and I'm still learning, is that

1:02:56

you, and I think it shows in your

1:02:58

fans in your life, you're able to have

1:03:00

like this big tent where loads of different

1:03:02

people can come in and you never feel

1:03:04

uncomfortable. You could just live in difference and

1:03:07

tension and worry, and maybe that's because of

1:03:09

your childhood. Yeah, it's because of my childhood.

1:03:11

But in a way that I'm still not

1:03:13

there yet. Oh yeah, but you were lucky

1:03:15

you grew up, like first of all, you're

1:03:18

Nigerian, so you've always had like your people.

1:03:20

And then also like your family and you're,

1:03:22

I've grown up as a singular. You know

1:03:24

what I mean? I was and still am

1:03:26

the only person in my family who even

1:03:28

looks like me. Obviously you can find features

1:03:31

in my parents. You'll be, yeah. But no,

1:03:33

my mother's a different color to me, my

1:03:35

father's a different color to me. We look,

1:03:37

we are different people and in the family

1:03:39

I'm a different person and you get them

1:03:42

saying, so. Does that make you feel like

1:03:44

lonely or you just? No, it was the

1:03:46

opposite funny enough. It didn't, it didn't make

1:03:48

me feel lonely because I don't spend all

1:03:50

the time looking at myself, which is great.

1:03:53

It's interesting that you say like you, or

1:03:55

maybe you said it like, that you, because

1:03:57

you are like kind of tribalists. in terms

1:03:59

of nobody looks like you yeah so the

1:04:01

so the whole everyone's your tribe you could

1:04:03

take it as a as a prescription be

1:04:06

lonely, or you take it, it's like, oh,

1:04:08

all right, well, I guess I'm everybody. Yeah,

1:04:10

no, I was just like, oh, you know,

1:04:12

because it was the only way I was,

1:04:14

and I think most importantly, my tight nucleus

1:04:17

treated me as the inn. So it's not

1:04:19

like my cousins treated me strange, not my

1:04:21

grandmother, my mother, nobody in my circle, I

1:04:23

was Trevor, fully, just Trevor. And then, because

1:04:25

I understand other people's languages, I would find

1:04:28

a way to get in quickly, and then

1:04:30

my friends very quickly, I mean, till this

1:04:32

day, you all know my friends, but they

1:04:34

just treat me like me. So I don't

1:04:36

even look down and be like, well, my

1:04:38

skin is different to there. No, I don't

1:04:41

do that. And so let me ask you

1:04:43

this, why do you think, as Neil, you

1:04:45

were always more comfortable and more comfortable and

1:04:47

more honest in black spaces than most white

1:04:49

people? I'd never, I'd

1:04:51

just never been that racist. You say

1:04:54

that? No, because everybody's racist. No, it's

1:04:56

just a matter of degree. So I've

1:04:58

just never been that racist. I had

1:05:01

access because one of my brothers worked

1:05:03

at the Briggly Field and all of

1:05:05

his co-workers were black. They were always

1:05:08

so nice to me. Eddie, Eddie, Michael

1:05:10

Jordan, Spike Lee, Arsenio. Right. I mean,

1:05:12

this is like a creepy story. I'm

1:05:15

like nine, right? Nine years old. I

1:05:17

used to have to, Eddie's on Saturday

1:05:19

Night Live, I used to have to

1:05:22

run, my parents would get home, I

1:05:24

used to have to run upstairs to

1:05:26

hide that I wasn't watching it, right?

1:05:29

Because they were, they'd get home, I'm

1:05:31

supposed to, I'm nine, I'm supposed to

1:05:33

be. Yeah. At

1:05:36

a certain point, I say to

1:05:38

my mom, hey, you need to

1:05:40

let me watch Star Out Live.

1:05:43

It's important. I remember being nine

1:05:45

and going, what are you talking

1:05:47

about? It's important. Again, it's not

1:05:49

even like, I'm so saintly, it's

1:05:52

just like, it's stupid. It's just

1:05:54

like, it's illogical. It's like, you

1:05:56

and I immediately. was like, oh,

1:05:58

I think I know what you're

1:06:01

like. I don't care about, I

1:06:03

don't care about your, anything. It's

1:06:05

like, I know what you're, you're

1:06:07

fucking, you're a very opinionated person.

1:06:10

Like, okay, I'll see it the

1:06:12

next argument. Like, there's no, so

1:06:14

it's not, I don't know, I

1:06:16

just never really bought that into

1:06:19

it in terms of, uh, like

1:06:21

a social construction, you know, like,

1:06:23

this is the person. Yeah, it's

1:06:25

also just access. what like the

1:06:28

most of sexism racism it's just

1:06:30

all these separations that we deal

1:06:32

with it's like if what what

1:06:34

I if I was in your

1:06:36

experience what what conclusions would I

1:06:39

come to if I was in

1:06:41

yours what conclusion would I come

1:06:43

to if I it's like I

1:06:45

understand it's assuming that people are

1:06:48

coming to conclusions for a lot

1:06:50

the same logic that I come

1:06:52

to conclusions and not If

1:06:55

I were black, I'd be, I'm mad

1:06:57

as a white person. So imagine what

1:06:59

I'd be like. And if I was

1:07:01

a white man, I'd be so fucking

1:07:03

rich. I'd be like, I say to

1:07:05

my husband all the time, mad. If

1:07:08

they made me look like one of

1:07:10

your friends, I'd be kidding it right

1:07:12

now. Yes, so like. I don't know.

1:07:14

I'm sensing a movie here, guys. Yeah.

1:07:16

But he wanted to be a black

1:07:18

woman. She wanted to be a white

1:07:21

man. Someone dropped one of these lights

1:07:23

on our. Podcasts. Yeah, so I don't,

1:07:25

I think it's just theory of mind.

1:07:27

It's like, what would it, I don't

1:07:29

know, if I would, it's just assuming

1:07:31

that someone's gonna think. the same things

1:07:34

you would think, but if you were

1:07:36

in that situation. So you see, I

1:07:38

come back to what I was saying

1:07:40

now about sharing space with people. I

1:07:42

listen to your story and just listening

1:07:44

to what you said. Because of your

1:07:47

brother, you went to a place where

1:07:49

all of his co-workers were black at

1:07:51

Wrigley Field. You're now associating and seeing

1:07:53

black people in their fullness in their

1:07:55

fullness in their compleness. It is a

1:07:57

lot harder to be racist to black

1:08:00

people when you know persons. It's a

1:08:02

lot harder. Because you're like, no, I

1:08:04

know, I know Dave and I know

1:08:06

Steve and I know the quand and

1:08:08

I know like, I know, I know,

1:08:11

I know people. I know, some are

1:08:13

like this, I know, some are not

1:08:15

like this. You get what I'm saying?

1:08:17

Yeah. You then go, you, now you're

1:08:19

also in comic, then you're in chapell

1:08:21

show. Again, now, you're experiencing black people

1:08:24

from all different walks of life, everyone

1:08:26

from most deaf and tally. I think.

1:08:28

Dave was I don't know we could

1:08:30

just got along we were like close

1:08:32

we were like in and this is

1:08:34

exactly at the same age 1819 he

1:08:37

was nice he we wrote he gave

1:08:39

me an opportunity right how big with

1:08:41

him a lot of this is like

1:08:43

I feel it is like recompense for

1:08:45

the opportunities that I've been given by

1:08:47

Dave specifically and then I give, I

1:08:50

take, I give like black people all

1:08:52

credit for that. A bunch of meaning

1:08:54

like, okay, I'll try to hire as

1:08:56

many black people as I can because

1:08:58

I can't, because why a person hired

1:09:00

me? Yeah. I kind of have to.

1:09:03

Morally, I have to. If I believe

1:09:05

in any sort of moral framework, I

1:09:07

have to try to not be that

1:09:09

racist. When you became more spiritual, I'd

1:09:11

love to know, like you and I,

1:09:13

many years ago, on the Daily Show,

1:09:16

we talked about depression and how it

1:09:18

affects people differently. And this is before

1:09:20

I knew I had ADHD and then

1:09:22

I was like, oh, mine's not like

1:09:24

depression. It's just a by product of

1:09:26

ADHD at times. I want to know

1:09:29

from you, what do you think some

1:09:31

of the biggest blocks were to you?

1:09:34

figuring it out. You know, in

1:09:37

one special, you're joking about wearing

1:09:39

a device on your arm that

1:09:41

electrocutes you to remind you to

1:09:43

smile and see more affable? Yeah.

1:09:46

This is a real thing. And

1:09:48

then it zaps me and I

1:09:50

smile. Yeah. That's the cover art

1:09:52

on Netflix is me fake smiling

1:09:55

from being zapped. Yeah. But then

1:09:57

now you smile more as a

1:09:59

person. You just generally. What do

1:10:02

you think was the, and it's

1:10:04

not the, let's start with the

1:10:06

thing that you did, but tell

1:10:08

me what you discovered that shifted

1:10:11

you out from under the cloud.

1:10:13

It's the, I mean, it's, it's,

1:10:15

it's very dangerous. Iowaska, 5MEO, DMT.

1:10:17

and then MDMA. It's I wouldn't

1:10:20

recommend it because it's like it

1:10:22

the five MEO DMT I like

1:10:24

kind of lost my mind for

1:10:27

a couple days but I those

1:10:29

in sequentially that's how I did

1:10:31

them and that's and they work

1:10:33

for me. Did you do under

1:10:36

guidance or just like a person

1:10:38

there but like they don't they're

1:10:40

not There's like, there are tribes

1:10:42

on the Amazon who have a

1:10:45

lot of experience in hundreds of

1:10:47

thousands of years of sort of

1:10:49

how to deal with certain things

1:10:51

and then there's people that I

1:10:54

dealt with that they mean well.

1:10:56

Now, I'm curious, right? Because any

1:10:58

time I see you, you're working,

1:11:01

I've never seen you, like, inner,

1:11:03

because you don't want to hang

1:11:05

out with black women, obviously. So,

1:11:07

like, I've never seen you socially.

1:11:10

So, like, no, I'm curious, what

1:11:12

does your depression look like? Because,

1:11:14

like, you know, there's always this

1:11:16

image of, like, in bed, I

1:11:19

can't work, I don't know how

1:11:21

I was never, well I was

1:11:23

always trying to, I tried to

1:11:26

work my way out of it.

1:11:28

Okay, so that's why you're checking

1:11:30

it. Okay. Yeah, like if I

1:11:32

could get an achievement, which I

1:11:35

think we've talked about before, it's

1:11:37

like you get an achievement, you

1:11:39

get a kind of a adrenaline

1:11:41

spike that you take for good

1:11:44

feeling. And then you kind of

1:11:46

just like, and then it wears

1:11:48

off. You're like, I gotta do

1:11:50

something else. Okay. And that's what

1:11:53

they call a career. Okay. But

1:11:55

yeah, the, the, so I did

1:11:57

all that stuff. It more, it's,

1:12:00

it's more a matter of changing

1:12:02

my relationship to. facts of my

1:12:04

life meaning I'm incredibly lucky I

1:12:06

used to think I was unlucky

1:12:09

yeah you did crazy I really

1:12:11

thought I was unlucky I really

1:12:13

thought I was like a like

1:12:15

reason for grievance and and then

1:12:18

I realized like no I now

1:12:20

I have a new idea which

1:12:22

is like Life isn't fair. No

1:12:25

one's life should be as good

1:12:27

as mine. Like I was dead

1:12:29

wrong about what I thought was

1:12:31

happening. Even the things that I

1:12:34

thought were negative were positive. And

1:12:36

it is like a... Everything was

1:12:38

your friend. It's all been good

1:12:40

and it's all been to my

1:12:43

favor, even if it's in the,

1:12:45

I sent you that thing the

1:12:47

other day about, it's a Buddhist

1:12:49

story about like, yeah, you never

1:12:52

know. You never know what something

1:12:54

means. Shell show ends. I'm like,

1:12:56

hmm. I never would be a

1:12:59

comedian if it didn't end. Like

1:13:01

all these things that I think

1:13:03

were negative were positive, just in

1:13:05

a different time frame. So. That's

1:13:08

the biggest takeaway, is that like

1:13:10

changing my relationship to the facts

1:13:12

of my life. And I do

1:13:14

a thing where I literally write

1:13:17

the facts of my life down

1:13:19

several times a day. Oh wow.

1:13:21

Like journal? Yeah, but I call

1:13:24

it a checklist to make it

1:13:26

masculine. This journal, but I call

1:13:28

it like a checklist of like

1:13:30

the facts of my life. Like

1:13:33

you are this, you are this,

1:13:35

you are this, you are this,

1:13:37

you got to do this, you

1:13:39

got to do, like this is

1:13:42

incredible, just enjoy yourself. I think

1:13:44

that's a good advice for anything.

1:13:46

It's like I can stay mad

1:13:48

all the time in this situation

1:13:51

or I can take this as

1:13:53

an opportunity for whatever. And so

1:13:55

for me it goes back to

1:13:58

what we're saying about a fence.

1:14:00

lives in the same world. I

1:14:03

think in everything I'm hearing you

1:14:05

saying, the facts didn't change. Your

1:14:08

house, your car, your life, your

1:14:10

job, your friends, your opportunities, that

1:14:12

didn't change. Your relation to them

1:14:14

change. Your relationship to them changed.

1:14:16

Your relationship to them changed. And

1:14:18

that's what I think about funny

1:14:20

enough with generally how we see

1:14:22

the world a lot of the

1:14:24

time, with how we see the

1:14:26

world a lot of the time.

1:14:28

It's just your relationship to it.

1:14:30

is acknowledging the fact is it

1:14:33

has happened or you're seeing it.

1:14:35

Yeah. But now what is my

1:14:37

relationship to it? And just shifting

1:14:39

that lets you off the hook

1:14:41

from feeling like you're wearing a

1:14:43

weighted vest. That's what I hear

1:14:45

you say. Oh, it's incredibly hard.

1:14:47

Yeah. But even like being a

1:14:49

mom I'm sure is like really

1:14:51

tries your patience. Yeah. And you

1:14:53

could occupy that space of like

1:14:55

just being aggravated all the time,

1:14:57

which I think a lot of

1:15:00

parents did for a long time.

1:15:02

Or you can just be like,

1:15:04

I'm going to feel this way

1:15:06

and I have to figure out

1:15:08

how to deal with it. Yeah,

1:15:10

I mean, I just like surrender.

1:15:12

Yeah, that's the, yeah, then my

1:15:14

girlfriend says that all the time.

1:15:16

Yeah, I can't. It's the most

1:15:18

Zen thing in the world. It's

1:15:20

just like, I have a four

1:15:22

year old, they're going to be

1:15:25

four. Yeah. until he's five. And

1:15:27

then they're going to be five,

1:15:29

which is another thing. Yeah, so

1:15:31

yeah, which is his own and

1:15:33

just like the surrender and the

1:15:35

acceptance of like this is what

1:15:37

it is. I can either look

1:15:39

at it and be have my

1:15:41

fist ball up all the time

1:15:43

or I can just be like,

1:15:45

okay, this is I got I'm

1:15:47

here. I might as well enjoy

1:15:50

it, which is the corniest Tritistic.

1:15:52

Which is scary when you talk.

1:15:54

I like to strive. I love

1:15:56

to strive. But I think life

1:15:58

is a balance between the two.

1:16:00

I think if we live only

1:16:02

in the moment, we neglect. Yeah,

1:16:04

people that live in the moment,

1:16:06

it should be noted, are incredibly

1:16:08

boring. you speak to. I think

1:16:10

you should. I think it's about

1:16:12

finding a balance. That's hard. And

1:16:15

it's, it's almost, yeah, it's almost

1:16:17

impossible because it's like how you

1:16:19

look at it, how you choose

1:16:21

to relate to it, how you

1:16:23

move through. And sometimes you're not

1:16:25

choosing it actively. But that's, but

1:16:27

that's how I, that's how I,

1:16:29

that's how I understand. And I'm

1:16:31

incredibly lucky. I would argue most

1:16:33

people hearing this are incredibly lucky

1:16:35

in that like you probably have

1:16:37

enough money to do all the

1:16:39

things the infrastructure that is in

1:16:42

place for you to have Spotify

1:16:44

or anyway you get your podcast.

1:16:46

Fantastic. Yo, Neil, this was, um, every

1:16:49

time I speak to you, it's a

1:16:51

joy. But, um, this was, this was

1:16:53

extra special. Thank you for, thank you

1:16:55

for joining us. Which, if someone has

1:16:58

to watch one of your specials now,

1:17:00

which one do you want them to

1:17:02

watch? I'd say watch Crazy Good. Crazy

1:17:04

Good. Crazy Good. The most recent one,

1:17:06

yeah. It's kind of the most timely

1:17:09

joke. Well for me, I think of

1:17:11

it like like Star Wars. Go watch

1:17:13

the trilogy. Yes. If you watch three

1:17:15

mics and you watch blocks and then

1:17:18

you watch Crazy Good, you will know

1:17:20

this Neil Brennan and you will see

1:17:22

the full. Yeah, you will see it.

1:17:24

The last time I saw you, it

1:17:27

was. So different. Yeah, the last time

1:17:29

I saw you was before Trevor quit

1:17:31

the show. Three years. I haven't met

1:17:33

this. Who is this Neil? He likes

1:17:36

to fight. Yeah. I fight children. We'll

1:17:38

save that for another episode. Neil. Thank

1:17:40

you so much. Thank you, Neil. Thanks.

1:17:42

Bye. What Now with Trevanoa is produced

1:17:45

by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day

1:17:47

Zero Productions. The show is executive produced

1:17:49

by Trevanoa, Sinaz Yamine, and Jody Avigan.

1:17:51

Our senior producer is just. Clare

1:17:54

Slaughter is our

1:17:56

producer. Music Mixing and

1:17:58

Mastering by Hannes

1:18:00

Brown. Thank you so

1:18:03

much for listening.

1:18:05

Join me next Thursday

1:18:07

for another episode

1:18:09

of What Now?