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what made you decide to go

1:01

into podcasting? Decide to

1:03

go into it? Is that

1:05

your podcast voice? I'm

1:08

going to have to edit

1:10

around all of Eugene's Vanak. Because

1:12

how do you do subtitles

1:14

on a podcast? Any Vanak that

1:16

you say, I'm going to

1:18

just throw in an American guy's

1:20

voice there. So you'll

1:23

be like, but Epstein, and

1:25

then instead of like... guy ends

1:27

out something Then he'll be

1:29

like I've seen he did it

1:31

And then I'll just tell I'm just

1:33

going to tell the audience Every time you

1:35

hear this voice He spoke in another

1:37

language And I didn't want to lose The

1:39

authenticity of the conversation So I didn't

1:41

edit around it at all So there you

1:44

go But I That's funny Yeah but

1:46

I Because you have to do subtitles But

1:48

I want you to know That it's

1:50

subtitles You see me This

1:55

is What Now? with Trevor

1:58

Noah. This

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Whenever you want more

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water, just do something

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Oh would you like some water Eugene? Oh thanks you. Thank

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you. you

3:41

thank you This

3:46

is the awkward part, how you start a conversation.

3:48

It's the worst part of every conversation. Why don't

3:50

we start with a prayer? This is actually why

3:52

our grandmothers started meetings with prayers. Oh yeah, to

3:54

cut the awkwardness. Yeah, because it's to cut the

3:57

awkwardness. You can't just come together and

3:59

be like, your son has a drug problem and

4:01

your husband is cheating. If you start with

4:03

a prayer, then it opens up. But it was

4:05

also a township power move. Because

4:07

everyone here will know whose house this

4:09

is. Because you can't lead a

4:11

prayer at somebody else's house. When you

4:13

pray in a South African household,

4:15

right? First of all, I don't

4:17

know if your grandmother did this. My grandmother used to give her

4:19

a dress. And she used to give like

4:21

where she's from and her name and everything.

4:23

my grandmother did that. No, really. My grandmother

4:25

would do that. She'd be like, and then

4:27

she'd be like, what a location. Yeah. Who

4:29

you are, where you're from, whatever. And I

4:31

remember I asked her once, I was like,

4:33

why are you doing this? And then she

4:36

was like, why do I assume? She said,

4:39

Trevor, I must just assume that

4:41

God is always listening to me. She

4:43

said, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not fair. And

4:46

if you think about it. Most South African

4:48

like prayer in general, I think is

4:50

very like considerate of God. It's

4:52

very much like we know that you're

4:54

doing stuff and we know that like, you know what

4:56

I mean? Yeah, but I think because of

4:58

missionaries, we never as black people thought that

5:00

God is with us. God was brought to

5:03

us. So we

5:05

always have to identify ourselves

5:07

and also separate ourselves from the

5:09

non -believers. It's funny, now that you

5:11

say the missionary thing, I actually think a

5:13

lot of that was real. Is

5:16

that like, because I always

5:18

think about this. I go like,

5:20

imagine being a black person anywhere

5:22

on the continent, right? These

5:25

people come with religion, right?

5:27

And then they tell you that the

5:29

reason things are going bad in your

5:31

life is because you don't have this God

5:33

in particular. Because there was religion. There

5:35

were different religions all over the continent, all

5:37

over South America, all over these places. They

5:40

would force... you know, the

5:42

native people, that they would force them to

5:44

buy goods from them that nobody else wanted to

5:46

buy at predetermined prices. They would say they

5:49

would do the work of like donkeys and mules

5:51

and all of that stuff. But the main

5:53

thing was they also came in with religion. So

5:55

everywhere in the world, I can see this vibe

5:57

where people have come in with religion saying

5:59

to you, hey, all these bad things that are

6:01

happening to you are because you

6:03

don't worship God. And

6:05

then it must've been weird because the natives are like, you

6:08

are the bad thing that's happening to us. They're

6:10

like, yes, exactly. If you had

6:12

prayed and you have penicillin, this

6:16

wouldn't be happening to you. I thought you didn't need

6:18

penicillin because you can pray. Go

6:21

put on clothes. It's

6:24

not cancer time yet. But

6:30

also churches in the

6:32

township, that's where you would see

6:34

family structure. Yes. That's

6:36

where you'd see people dressed up nicely

6:38

because parents used to leave very

6:40

early. So you never see them wearing

6:42

nice clothes except for on a Sunday.

6:44

And then also cars as well. You'd

6:47

see your principal or the local doctor. They

6:49

would park their cars. So church has

6:51

always been aspirational. I don't think anything has

6:53

changed from back in the day to

6:55

now. And also its missionaries offered people to

6:57

go to university. Nelson Mandela was that

6:59

beneficiary. So a lot of people that went

7:01

and played cricket and went to school

7:03

because of churches. So a lot of people

7:05

are very conflicted when it comes to

7:07

religion and this topic because somehow they benefited

7:09

from it. Now

7:11

they can't separate themselves from the lies of

7:13

it as well and the oppression of it

7:16

as well. But people in other countries who

7:18

are not part of the system of going

7:20

to that. Because if you think of a

7:22

church, such a small building for a big

7:24

community. So it's already on its, by merit,

7:26

it already is an exclusive club of people.

7:28

The believers. There's the believers that are believing

7:30

in proxy. There's the believers

7:32

that are dedicated in coming here and giving money

7:34

and dressing up and showing up. It's a

7:36

place for people to gather once a week to

7:38

come and say what they need to say. So,

7:41

Tina, the organization of it ended for us when

7:43

church ended. But for people in power, it kept

7:45

on continuing the whole week through. Because people

7:47

who run the church, run the church, they don't have other

7:49

jobs. The believers have other

7:52

jobs. The Pope's job is

7:54

to run the church. Yes. The other ones, it's for them to

7:56

go and collect money and come back and give it back

7:58

to the Pope. I'm conflicted when comes

8:00

to church because I think... You love church?

8:03

Yeah, I love it. love churches. I don't

8:05

love church. No, no, no. But I...

8:07

So... You know,

8:09

when I look at what

8:11

we're experiencing in the world

8:13

today, there's no denying that church and religion

8:15

is responsible for a lot of, I mean,

8:17

you name it and label it, right? Pain,

8:19

conflict, what, what, what, what, what, what, right?

8:21

Birth control. You name it, whatever. But

8:24

when I look at what

8:26

people's lives have become, I

8:29

can't help but wonder how much worse it's going

8:31

to get when church falls away. So

8:34

go to any thriving European

8:36

country. Church is gone now. When

8:39

I was in the Netherlands, all the churches that

8:41

used to be churches are They're ABNBs now.

8:43

Yeah, they've just turned into other things. Really? Yeah,

8:45

it's like there's a restaurant or this is

8:47

something. It's just, it's not a church. So cathedrals

8:49

are gone. No, no, no. It's all, it's

8:51

not a church. Churches are dying. In fact, funny

8:53

enough, in the US, you

8:55

know that story, you know when Trump was saying like,

8:57

hey, the Haitians, they're eating dogs, they're eating cats,

9:00

blah, blah, blah, that whole thing. So

9:02

they went to that part of Ohio and they interviewed

9:04

people. And not only were

9:06

they saying that the Haitian immigrants

9:08

have revitalized the local economy, they went

9:10

to the church. And then the pastor said the church

9:12

was about to die. He said

9:14

the church was dead. And now because of the

9:16

Haitians, the church is a thing again and

9:18

it exists. And they come there and they use

9:20

it and there's a congregation. And now the

9:22

church makes money and they can be a community

9:25

hub again. So that's

9:27

why I say I'm conflicted when it comes

9:29

to church. Because I think it's

9:31

easy for us to... dismiss things in general in

9:33

life. Like we always want to say good,

9:35

bad. But to your point, I

9:37

can't think of, I

9:40

can't think of a place that

9:42

is responsible for more community

9:44

and connection than a church. Because a

9:46

church, you didn't need money to come to

9:48

it. As we live

9:50

in a world where more and more clubs

9:52

are predetermined, you know, like race, class,

9:54

all these things, religion was one of the

9:56

few things where you could opt in. You

9:58

could walk in off the street and say, I want to be

10:00

part of your club. And the person would be

10:02

like, yeah, you're part of the club. Like,

10:04

where do people connect for free with other humans?

10:06

On the internet. Yeah, but that's

10:08

not connecting. 100 % is connecting. Bro,

10:11

that's not connecting. You know how you

10:13

mentioned... That's not connecting. You

10:15

think the internet is connecting? Yes. Okay,

10:18

what level of connection? You know

10:20

how many times I've spoken to you on WhatsApp? We

10:23

just five right at a time. But imagine if we

10:25

met on WhatsApp. It wouldn't be the same.

10:27

No, I'm saying if we met on WhatsApp. But we

10:29

have a couple of times. No, man, met. I'm saying

10:31

if our initial introduction as human beings was on WhatsApp,

10:33

it wouldn't be same. This would be a video call

10:35

right now if we had met on WhatsApp. This

10:38

guy. I

10:40

think where religion

10:42

and church is concerned, and I hear your

10:44

point about it almost feels like as

10:46

humans we need structure. Yeah.

10:49

And I remember days when my parents were not

10:51

at home. Well, my dad was

10:53

always not at home. But when my mom

10:55

was not at home. I would have

10:57

the most amount of fun. When I was the

10:59

youngest, I used to think I need this woman

11:01

here. But as soon as she said, there's food

11:03

in the fridge, you know where the TV remote

11:05

is, have a good time. And I'm going to

11:07

be gone for eight hours. I was like, can

11:09

you leave sooner? The overtime there. Because

11:12

in my world, that's when I

11:14

realized I don't actually need someone to tell

11:16

me what to do. I learned that very

11:18

early. So some people need structure and some

11:20

people don't. But I think also people are

11:22

deep and steeped in religion, have abdicated there. responsibility

11:25

to be good people to someone else, to

11:27

a higher power. So

11:30

when they go to a pastor, when

11:32

they go to their reverend, and when they speak

11:34

to God on their behalf, they feel like

11:36

they don't have to be good people. They can

11:38

always ask for forgiveness. But I feel like

11:40

if people who go to church took that same

11:42

mentality that they have for that hour and

11:44

a half at church and actually spread it around

11:46

in real life every day, day to day,

11:48

the world would be a better place. Because I

11:50

think love should be preached more than religion.

11:52

I don't think someone should tell us. Jesus died

11:54

on the cross for all of us to

11:56

be here and then it ends there. Look,

11:59

I don't think you're wrong, but

12:01

stories help. Like

12:04

stories just help. So

12:06

if you say to somebody, sacrifice

12:09

is the most powerful thing you can do. Someone's like,

12:11

okay, what do you mean by that? I think there's

12:13

something really powerful in someone saying, hey man, this

12:15

stranger that you don't know died for you

12:17

and your sins. There's a

12:19

deep gratitude that comes with that. Yeah, but

12:21

the Bible is a big book of suffering.

12:24

Yes. But life is a big book of suffering.

12:26

You see? So it's all about someone did

12:28

something and then found redemption. Someone did something and

12:30

then found redemption. There's never someone just having a good

12:32

time. There's lots of people having a good time

12:34

in the Bible. Who? Lot's wife turned into salt? Because

12:37

she looked back. She looked back. Whose

12:39

investments were tarnished and then he

12:41

had to... Who? Show me one person in the

12:43

Bible who had a good time. Who was someone time? People

12:45

were in the bellies of the whale. People were kicked out

12:47

of Eden. Someone was asked They

12:49

were having a good time before they were kicked

12:51

out of Eden. Yeah. Somewhere someone had to go...

12:53

me, eh? Yes, but okay. So what are you saying? You

12:55

want the Bible to... Show me then a

12:58

TV show where nobody suffers. This

13:00

is entertainment. But where are the good times in

13:02

the Bible? No, there's lots of good times. Where?

13:05

There's lots of good times. There's lots of

13:07

good times. King David had good times. Until

13:09

what happened? Until he

13:11

died. What did King David do? Well,

13:14

I mean, he killed Goliath. That was his

13:16

journey of becoming David, the king. So

13:19

he was a wise king. Yes, he was

13:21

a wise king. But then he also... was

13:23

the one who killed the woman's husband, right? So

13:25

he was having a good time. to war and

13:27

put them in the artillery. Yes, but he was

13:29

having good time. But he was having time. But

13:31

was the wife having a good time? Did

13:34

the husband have a good time? Did

13:36

the extended family? Eugene. The funeral cover. Okay,

13:39

now let me ask you this. Which TV show has

13:41

people having a good time? The

13:43

Apprentice. No, I'm joking. No, but seriously,

13:46

which TV show? having a good time. I hear what you're saying,

13:48

but I mean like, if you're telling stories, there

13:50

is no story that... is worth listening

13:52

to if it's just like, I went there,

13:54

what I wanted to happen, happened. Yes.

13:57

And then I came back and everything is great. That's

13:59

not a story. So then every sermon in church, obviously picking

14:01

from this book and they decide maybe we are going

14:03

to preach about Job. Yes. There's going to be how

14:05

Job suffered and then how is you suffering right now

14:07

and how you can end your own suffering by doing

14:09

what? By praying it

14:11

away. Okay. Because Job did not

14:13

pray away. So I feel like... God said to him,

14:15

who are you to question me? But I feel

14:17

like here what's happening is... Then he was like, yeah.

14:19

I feel like you're trying to get me now

14:21

to defend religion. No, no, no. Not at all. But

14:23

I'm I'm trying to get you to defend the

14:25

characters. No. In the great book of Oz. I mean...

14:28

So what I'm... But it's fine. What I'm saying

14:30

is it doesn't matter what the book is. Okay. Even

14:32

if we talk about The Wizard of Oz, right?

14:34

I don't need... No, but really... I

14:38

don't need Dorothy to be real. I don't

14:40

need the Tin Man to be real. I

14:43

don't need the Lion to be... But these are

14:45

the concepts that The Wicked Witch of

14:47

the West. Yeah, if someone wrote me a

14:49

textbook about courage, about decency, about like...

14:51

Then what? But you remember it when it's

14:53

a story. You connect to it differently.

14:55

You understand it. Dorothy goes on a journey.

14:57

You get what I'm saying? Like all

14:59

of these characters go on a journey. And

15:01

so I think... hear what you're saying

15:03

and I agree. In a perfect world, everyone would

15:05

be able to do for themselves what they require

15:07

another to do for them. But I don't think

15:09

that's fundamentally what makes us human. I think humans

15:11

need that. So that you

15:14

as Eugene may not need somebody to

15:16

tell you what to do, maybe in one

15:18

or some aspects of your life.

15:20

Not in all. Yeah, but then there'll

15:22

be some places where you find

15:24

there's a deep reward that comes from

15:26

somebody guiding you. And that

15:28

for me is the good of churches. So

15:30

like when a church is run well, when a

15:32

church is not like, yeah, when

15:34

a church is not like the minister having

15:36

a private jet and the congregation starving,

15:38

I'm saying when a church is run well,

15:40

it really just is a community center

15:42

where people come together. They

15:45

share like an idea of problems. They

15:47

talk about how there's something on the other side. Group

15:49

counseling. But yeah, it's group counseling. Yeah, it's group counseling.

15:52

So why are you being so difficult when you know

15:54

what it is? I think it's a podcast.

15:56

When? You

15:58

see what you just did now? You just did the

16:00

Bible to me. You could

16:02

have just come in and made it

16:04

good times, but you brought suffering, you brought

16:06

strife, you brought pain. Why

16:09

did you do that? My

16:15

life trumped my thirst. I

16:17

wanted to do them both at the same time.

16:21

Oh, man. Oh,

16:26

my sunburn. Oh,

16:28

wow. That's what you get. Oh, man. I'm

16:30

burnt. What were you doing? I forgot that

16:32

I could get this burnt. What were

16:34

you I was playing pickleball. You

16:36

need a difference between pickleball and pickleball because I've heard

16:38

you speak. You and I went to go play paddleball

16:40

for the first time. Yeah, paddleball. And I whacked myself

16:42

in the face. That's the problem with paddleball is people

16:44

hit themselves. So, okay. Oh, it's a thing. Why don't

16:46

you tell me this that day? I didn't know until

16:48

you started. You were the first person who let me

16:50

know this was a trend. You

16:53

know I mean? So, Paddle

16:56

ball is squash mixed with tennis.

16:58

And then pickleball, I would say, is

17:00

table tennis mixed with tennis. So

17:02

is the racket smaller? No,

17:04

the racket is just different. It's like a flat paddle

17:07

type thing. It's like a piece of

17:09

polycarbonate or something. I don't know.

17:11

It's like a big table tennis. Also,

17:13

that's where the similarities come in. Yeah, I would say that. And

17:15

the ball. And the ball. And the ball. Like the way

17:17

it sounds, the way it moves. It sounds. Yeah,

17:20

because it does like a... Oh, okay.

17:22

So when it hits the... Yeah, but the

17:24

pedal has more of like a... Okay.

17:29

By way, if you want to

17:31

buy my new album, Sounds of

17:33

Racket Sports, you can find the

17:35

link in the description. you playing

17:37

bigger ball? So we were playing...

17:40

The only time that people could

17:42

come together with their schedules was

17:44

at like 10, 11. And

17:46

then the UV index was 10. I

17:48

just learned about UV indexes, by the way.

17:50

Yes. So the UV index was 10. Yeah.

17:53

And then I just got like

17:55

a burn around my, you

17:57

know. So the people that you are playing with, they

18:00

were only free at around 10 in the morning. Yeah,

18:02

it just happened to be. Normally we play like when

18:04

the sun is setting. Do

18:06

all of your friends that you play pickleball with

18:08

have jobs? Yes. What do

18:10

they do? You want everyone's job.

18:12

The one who are there at pickleball. There's

18:15

a lot of people. You want

18:17

everyone's jobs. Someone works in

18:19

marketing. Another person works in, I

18:21

don't know, the finance industry.

18:23

Another person's unemployed. Another person works

18:25

in advertising. Another person

18:27

works in, I don't

18:29

know, trading or something. Another

18:32

person works on radio. Another person

18:34

is a lawyer. How far

18:36

must I go with this? How

18:38

many were you? 10 or so?

18:40

Yeah, maybe. So you all coordinated. You

18:43

must come and join. You'd love it. I know. You'd

18:46

love it. Do you find it weird

18:49

when you are hanging around with, because you

18:51

know how we grew up. It's not like

18:53

after we finished matric, grade

18:55

12. It's not like we went to university

18:57

and studied a degree and then we went into

18:59

the job market and gained experience. When you

19:01

look at the friends that you have, let's say

19:03

the group that you're playing pickleball with and

19:05

you're like, now you're a lawyer, advertising, whatever. They've

19:07

put in years. into this

19:09

career that they have. And then asking

19:11

someone, can I not be around?

19:14

Can I attend with my friend and

19:16

do fun things, which they actually

19:18

really do enjoy? Do you

19:20

look at your friends? Because it happens to me

19:22

when I still used to have friends with jobs.

19:24

And I'd look at them and go, I hacked

19:26

the system. Because I don't understand how

19:28

they do it. When you hang out with

19:30

them, how do you pretend to be normal?

19:32

Because in that situation, you're not normal. You

19:34

could have done this at six in the

19:36

morning. No, but we're all normal. Jan,

19:39

because... Okay, I think of it this way. I know

19:41

what you mean, but I think of it way. Please

19:43

tell the audience how you know how I mean it.

19:45

Okay. Because I don't want to be the only guy

19:47

who said it. No, Because we all know. Yes, but...

19:49

When you're with friends with Jan, when you start talking

19:51

about David orders, you're like, eh! Or

19:53

contract renewals, you're like, eh -eh, eh -eh.

19:56

Smoothie. Okay, so on

19:58

the one side... Yes. Being

20:01

a comedian or being in any

20:03

type of career where there is

20:05

no... slash job slash

20:07

firing and hiring slash is

20:09

weird because you're right there's

20:11

nothing that forces you to

20:13

go somewhere per se and

20:15

there's also nothing that guarantees you anything per

20:17

se so there's no payday when

20:19

you work in comedy there's no oh it's that

20:21

time of the month a guarantee no but what I

20:23

mean is there is none and there is like it's when

20:26

is it coming when is it not coming how is

20:28

it coming how is it not right but I don't

20:30

know. If you think of you as being the

20:32

business in a weird way, you do

20:34

become more normal. I think when I

20:36

meet people who run their own businesses

20:38

or their own little companies or their

20:40

own whatever thing, we feel the same. Because

20:43

you work as much as you want to work. And

20:45

then your work is generally directly tied

20:47

to how much money you make,

20:49

generally. But just like me, you

20:52

have friends that are in business

20:54

and then you have friends that

20:56

are employed. Yeah. Do

20:58

you feel like your code switch when you're with the two?

21:00

What's the difference between the two? No. Actually,

21:02

you know what? I think one of the

21:04

things that freed me the most was the

21:06

more I spent time with professionals, the more I

21:08

realized how You mean the employed? No, professionals.

21:10

Like, you know, I studied law and I studied

21:12

accounting and I studied… Like those kinds of

21:14

people. The more I realized that most people are

21:16

just winging it in life. Yes. Genuinely.

21:19

Yes. Genuinely, genuinely, genuinely. I

21:21

think one of the worst things that ever

21:23

happened to me in life is I've gotten

21:25

to meet like some world leaders. where

21:27

I go like, oh boy, we're

21:29

in trouble in the world. Because we

21:31

assume that most people's

21:33

positions come with a certain

21:36

aptitude and expertise that's

21:38

applicable to everything. But

21:40

we do most people, right? Yes, absolutely. Like Elon

21:42

Musk is a good example. Elon Musk

21:44

is the richest man in the world. Now,

21:46

like doubling, you know, what is it, like 400

21:48

million or whatever now these days? The

21:51

next person is 200 million. So like Elon,

21:53

yeah, no, sorry, 400 billion. Did I say

21:55

million? See this

21:57

thinking small of yours. And

22:00

I worry about these things when we are sitting. So,

22:05

Elon Musk,

22:07

because of that,

22:09

just like wanders into every

22:11

space and is given the full

22:13

latitude where nobody questions anything. So, you

22:15

know, it's funny, coming back to the

22:17

Bible, actually, one thing I appreciate about

22:20

the Bible is that if you read

22:22

it properly, it does show

22:24

you the complexity of the human

22:26

being. So in the Bible, there

22:28

are good people who then go

22:31

on to do terrible things and

22:33

live a horrible life in

22:35

the end. There are bad people who have

22:37

a good moment. But

22:39

you see humanity in its full complexity

22:42

is what I find if you read

22:44

the Bible. So even the person that you

22:46

go is a good guy. You go like, oh, this is

22:48

a good person. Read the Bible and going to see there's

22:50

parts of the story where they did what with their son? They

22:53

did what to their mom? They did what to their

22:55

neighbor? Then you're like, damn, I don't know if I

22:57

can... I mean, I guess King David was good, but

22:59

also how could he do this, right? And

23:01

I think some of that thinking

23:03

is necessary for the world.

23:05

So when you're with your friends with normal jobs,

23:08

and then you're playing pickleball, and then they

23:10

tell you, I have to go pick up someone

23:12

at one. Or when they

23:14

say, hey, my boss is there. Do

23:17

you look away? When

23:23

they look at a car in a car park and go,

23:25

yeah, that's nice. Is

23:27

there a part of you that joins into, yeah,

23:31

do you look at them and go, yeah, that's

23:33

also nice. Because you're not saying it's

23:35

nice because you can't afford it or you can't

23:37

buy it or you can't have it. You've probably driven

23:39

it and enjoyed it. So I'm trying to figure

23:41

out what I'm trying to figure out. Because

23:44

that's what I struggled with. I'm

23:46

saying when people with normal jobs, like now when we're coming

23:49

here. By the way, what jobs have you had in your

23:51

life? I worked at a car park. Doing

23:54

what at a car park? There was like,

23:56

before there were pairs you go tickets. I

23:58

introduced that system with my friends actually at the

24:00

mall in Pretoria. So there used to be a

24:02

booth at the end, at the exit and entrance of

24:04

every car park. You come in, there's a boom.

24:07

You come out, there's a booth. So I used to

24:09

take the ticket and go. Oh, damn. Was

24:11

this your first job? First, first job. Yeah, when

24:13

I was 16. So that's what I did on

24:15

weekends and school holidays. They give you the ticket

24:17

they pay and then I calculate. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

24:19

and then the machine says 16 ran. How

24:21

did you feel when you saw your first

24:23

automatic boom machine thing? The

24:26

pay -on -foot tickets system. When people could do

24:28

it without you. I was happy. Really? Yeah,

24:30

because I was in matric at the time.

24:33

Then I was like, I don't need you. I'm

24:35

out. And I left. But

24:38

I was happy. So there wasn't a part of you that was like, oh, they

24:40

took our jobs. No. I

24:44

was happy. But one thing I always,

24:46

the one thing that changed my life, because

24:48

I worked, I started the car park

24:50

at the mall. And then when

24:52

I reached Metric, I worked inside the

24:54

mall. What did you do in mall?

24:56

I worked at a CD store when those

24:58

things still existed. CD like music? Yeah. Damn.

25:00

And then all your jobs are defunct. You're

25:02

basically like the grim reaper of jobs. When

25:05

you see Eugene coming to the job, you

25:07

must know it's over. I'm

25:09

even warning you in the future. If you see

25:11

Eugene show up and be like, hey guys, I'm

25:13

now going to be working. This

25:16

industry is on its way out.

25:18

Because you just went for defunct job

25:20

after defunct job. Another defunct

25:22

job. I worked at CNA. And

25:25

my job was to mend the magazine counter. And

25:27

then my job was to go there and tell

25:29

people who are on dates while they're waiting for

25:31

the movies to start to stop paging through the

25:33

magazine. And I was going...

25:35

Oh,

25:37

you were one of those guys. And

25:39

then one day I caught smart guy. You were one of those guys who

25:41

was like, you're not allowed to read. Yes. And then I was like, no,

25:44

but you're not allowed to read the magazine. He

25:46

was like, what if I go to another magazine? I

25:49

was like, technically,

25:51

you caught me, Elon.

25:57

So what I did as well. But

26:00

the one day that changed my life

26:03

is I met the guy that owned Brooklyn

26:05

Mall, a guy called Mr. Watson. He used

26:07

to come there once a week. He drove a Jaguar. His

26:09

driver drove a Jaguar and he would sit at the

26:12

back and his wife would be in a mink coat even

26:14

in the summer. And then one day when they're entering

26:16

the new system of pay on foot. And then

26:18

he happened to be the guy next in

26:20

line. And then I helped this driver. And

26:22

then I saw him. And I remembered, I've seen this guy so

26:24

many times. Then he asked me what my name was. And

26:26

I told him, he asked me how old I am. I said,

26:28

yeah. He's like, so

26:30

you do this every day? I'm like, no, no, not

26:33

every day. Only on holidays and weekends. And I said,

26:35

what do you do? The audacity. My manager was behind

26:37

me going. And

26:40

then he said, no, I

26:43

business, but I live and I do

26:45

things and I blah, blah, blah. Then

26:47

I said, yeah, I want to do what you do. I want

26:49

to come to the mall during the week for no reason. Then

26:51

he said, if you want it, you can do it. I

26:54

hate it when rich people say that. And then I only

26:56

found out later in life when I worked inside the mall

26:58

that that was him. Because now

27:00

he was inside the mall. Remember I was in the parking

27:02

lot when I first met him? Now I got a

27:04

job inside the mall. Then I met him and everyone was

27:06

just, the shop owners were always happy to see him.

27:08

The restaurateurs were always happy to see him. Then there's the

27:10

guy that owned the mall. And I think that was

27:12

my first real realization of what... Being loved

27:14

and being powerful, that combination, what it meant.

27:16

He was a very powerful man. But

27:18

he was loved. People loved him. And I think

27:21

there was a side of him. A loved

27:23

landlord. Yeah, he also loved them because he didn't

27:25

have to be there. And that

27:27

was a principle I took throughout my life. And

27:29

I've spoken to you about this before. I said, I only do

27:32

things that I love. I only hang out

27:34

with people that I like. I don't go

27:36

out to force a lesson of pain

27:38

on myself. and try to test how

27:40

far my patients can go with something I don't

27:42

enjoy. So I'm only at places where I feel

27:44

I'm wanted. I'm also at places where I feel

27:46

like I want to be. And that was only

27:48

from that interaction twice with this man who I've

27:50

never met again. Damn.

27:54

I like that you... And

27:56

not in like a dismissive way. No, absolutely. But

27:58

I love that you formed such a positive

28:00

idea around this human being, knowing

28:02

the little that you did. Yes. Do

28:05

you know I mean? Yes. That's what I wanted to take away

28:07

from him. No, but I'm saying that's a

28:09

beautiful thing. Because this person,

28:11

you met them twice. Yeah.

28:15

And that's what you took from them. That's all I

28:17

took from them. Because I realized how much power

28:19

there was. Because also, I started seeing it around. Because

28:21

obviously, if you work in a CD store, people

28:23

come there to come buy music, but also to buy

28:25

time. So they hang around. So

28:27

when I would see people at the mall at 11

28:29

in the morning, I would like, what do you

28:31

do that allows you to be at the mall at

28:33

11? I want to do that. So it became

28:35

my quest to come to interview people while they're buying

28:37

their CDs or listening me. What was it about

28:40

the mall that you were so... It's abundant.

28:42

Okay. Everything is there. You

28:45

don't go to the mall to win the shop. People

28:47

go to the mall... to look at

28:49

things that they like and they can just buy

28:51

them or they just go to hang out

28:53

with people that they like. A mall was a

28:55

gathering place. It was obviously 20 years ago.

28:57

Are you sad that malls are dying

29:00

now? To an

29:02

extent, yeah. I go to malls. I like going to

29:04

malls. I like walking at malls. I go to Mall of

29:06

Africa all the time. When I go to a new

29:08

place, I go to a mall. Just in America, I haven't

29:10

gotten a chance to go to it because I like

29:12

Central Park more. So I walk around and visit. And go

29:14

to churches. But I like malls. I like the feeling

29:16

of abundance. I think that was my first glimpse of it.

29:19

When I was working at the mall, I knew at the end of

29:21

the month what I wanted to do with my money. And go

29:23

to the mall? No, no. Things I'd

29:25

see. At the mall? Yeah. I knew what

29:27

sneakers I wanted. I knew what headphones I

29:29

was going to buy with my money. I

29:31

always enjoyed the feeling of abundance. But also it

29:33

taught me a certain discipline in life that

29:35

just because it's there doesn't mean you must take

29:37

it. Sometimes you just have

29:39

to wait. Sometimes you can just walk past it.

29:41

Sometimes the idea of being around it is even better

29:43

than owning it. I could go into a sound

29:45

system store and just listen and just have a good

29:47

time. I didn't have to take it home. And

29:50

then they would come and say, sir, please, please, you

29:52

can't be listening. Please, please. Do

29:54

you remember me? I was reading magazines in

29:56

your store and remember what you told me.

29:59

Do you think that came from how you grew up?

30:01

Like what was it about abundance that

30:03

connected with you in that way? Because

30:05

you didn't grow up with abundance. As cheesy as

30:07

that sounds, it was my... mom, my

30:09

mom used to, she was a nurse.

30:11

She's retired now. She had four kids. I

30:14

was the third one. What she would

30:16

do every month end was she would

30:18

come to school and pick

30:20

us up, pick one up. So we had

30:22

a roster. So every month end,

30:24

one child gets a turn to go to town with

30:27

her. Oh, damn. But she made a point

30:29

to come before break. at

30:31

school, go to the principal's office. Did your mom have

30:33

a car? No. Okay, no, because I was wondering why

30:35

one. I was like, damn, this is a crazy system. No,

30:38

so you're getting in a taxi. Yes. That's why she

30:40

has to pick one. No, no, also, it's

30:43

what's going to happen in town when we get there. What's

30:45

going to happen? You'll see. Okay, sorry. And then she

30:47

would come to school and then talk to the principal and then

30:49

I'd be like, there she is. And then she would come to

30:52

my class. Would you know who she's coming to fetch? Of course,

30:54

it's me. No, but you said there's a roster and

30:56

you rotate. No, no, we're not at the same school at

30:58

the same time. Oh, okay, okay, got it, got it, it. So

31:00

she'd come. I thought your mom was doing like a lottery

31:02

system. No, no, no. You were all at the same school and

31:04

then your mom would walk in. You'd just see her head

31:06

past those big windows at school and then they'd be like, Eugene,

31:08

your mom is here. Then I'd be like,

31:10

oh man, my mom. Take

31:13

my backpack and we're out and then we'd high five each

31:15

other in the passage there. Then we'd get in a taxi

31:17

and then off we'd go to town. Then when we'd go

31:19

to town, the first thing she did was we'd go to

31:21

the park. Then we'd sit

31:23

at the park and then she'd say, think of anything that you

31:25

want, that you want us to buy today. Think

31:27

of anything that you want. Then I'd be like,

31:30

buy. Yes, yes. Yeah, I

31:32

want that one. Bega. Ninja

31:34

title. Yeah,

31:36

I want that. Okay, okay, I'm

31:38

done. She's like, you're done. Then

31:40

we'd go and buy all the things that

31:42

I wanted. And then I realized how many

31:45

things I passed going to the things that I

31:47

wanted that were insignificant at that point. Then you

31:49

buy all the things you want. And

31:51

then now we're doing groceries. Now we get to the

31:53

nuts and bolts of it. Now she buys groceries

31:55

for the whole house. And then what she used

31:57

to do for all of us was she would buy a slab of chocolate

31:59

for all of us and a tub of one liter

32:02

ice cream for all of us. That was

32:04

ours to do as we wanted. So

32:06

that's what she did. She showed me abundance. And my mom

32:08

had a concept, when it's finished, it's finished. I've

32:11

never struggled with loss. with

32:14

loss of anything, especially finances. We've

32:17

done things with cars and had fun and made money

32:19

and lost money and do whatever. I've never struggled with

32:21

that concept at all because she taught me when it's

32:23

there, it's there. When it's not, it's not. But as

32:25

long as you're here, you can always make it again.

32:28

But just like you pass the things that you

32:30

didn't want at the store to go to the things

32:32

that you wanted, those things will always be there. So

32:35

I've learned abundance from her. And what she would do

32:37

is she would take the rest of the month's money

32:39

and give it to you. And then

32:41

say, when someone needs something, they're

32:44

going to come fetch it from you. So you understand that

32:46

it's there, but it's there to be used.

32:48

So the value of money for us was it

32:50

buys bread. It's a taxi ride

32:52

for someone. It's a school thing that popped up

32:54

out of nowhere. It's this, it's that.

32:56

Someone coming to borrow money from the house,

32:58

it's that. So the value of money was never

33:00

to look at it as a thing that

33:02

exists to make you feel good. It was there

33:04

to help facilitate things that just might come

33:06

up in life. Some things are small, you end

33:08

up with more money. Some things are big,

33:10

you end up with less money. But it was

33:12

there. So she would go, if it was

33:14

there when it was needed, it did its job.

33:17

So I look at life like that and I'm

33:19

glad for those lessons in life because I've had

33:21

a chance to look around. And that's why I

33:23

was asking me about friends with employment. I was

33:25

not making fun of them at all. Because

33:27

I have friends like that as well who would say, I

33:29

have a day off. A friend of mine on our way

33:31

here called me, but I didn't answer his phone. But he

33:33

sent me a text before saying, do you want to go

33:35

ride in the mountain tomorrow because I'm day off? But

33:38

I'm like, my life doesn't work like that. I can

33:40

go ride any day. But if you have to think

33:43

of it like that, then it means your world is

33:45

centered like that. I think

33:47

both of them come with pros

33:49

and cons. Absolutely. So as much

33:51

as you can say

33:53

your life, you don't require a

33:55

day off to do something. But

33:59

the gift

34:01

and the curse of it is that freedom is

34:04

hard work. I've experienced this,

34:06

let's say on a really flippant level. If

34:08

I go on a vacation and

34:10

everything is planned, I

34:12

have a great time. I know where I'm supposed

34:14

to go. I know what time I have to be

34:16

there. I go to the museum. Then I go to

34:18

this. Then I go. I'm having a great time. I'm

34:20

like, oh, wow. Because I'm not thinking. I'm not. And

34:22

when you're not thinking, you don't make the wrong choice.

34:24

When you don't make the wrong choice, you don't have

34:27

regret. You don't feel. There's none of that. You don't

34:29

go, did I do it or did I not do

34:31

it? Right. And I think there's a little bit of

34:33

that when you are employed versus if you are like

34:35

doing your own thing. Is that

34:37

when you are employed, there's a certain

34:39

level of someone's telling you what you

34:41

have to do on what day, by

34:43

what time. And that's liberating

34:45

in many ways. It's like having a personal trainer.

34:47

It's liberating. Have you ever walked

34:49

into a gym and just looked at the weights? I don't

34:51

go to a gym. But you've never walked

34:53

into a gym? Gym is kindergarten for people

34:56

with regrets. Is

34:59

that a no or yes? Yes. you

35:02

walked into a gym. oh

35:10

man so I get

35:12

what you're saying

35:14

but I didn't know that thing

35:17

about I didn't know that about your

35:19

mom yeah like I knew that I

35:21

knew that vibe with your mom it's

35:23

funny I'm trying to think of

35:25

like how I process loss

35:27

you think wait so okay help me understand

35:29

this are you saying that you are

35:31

not loss averse or are you saying that

35:33

when you experience loss you like whatever

35:35

yes both of them yeah I

35:37

feel like my upbringing, my

35:40

conditioning, and also the way I

35:42

view life has made me

35:44

survive loss better. I

35:46

have things that I

35:48

love that I don't use. You

35:51

have things that you love that you don't use? Yes.

35:53

Okay. I have things that I love that I've

35:55

lost. Okay. Both

35:58

of those things are not with me currently, or

36:00

I can choose not to be using them

36:03

or with them. Does it make sense? Yeah, okay.

36:05

So I walk past my bike all the time.

36:07

In the morning. I choose. is your motorbike? Yes.

36:09

Okay. I choose. And sometimes

36:11

I can go four months without riding

36:13

the one. But it's there. But if

36:15

I wake up one day and it's no

36:17

longer there. Yeah. The feeling of it not being

36:19

there won't be horrible to me. Oh,

36:21

damn. Because I deal with it all

36:23

the time. I look at my daughter. She turns

36:26

16. Now started grade 11. daughter's 16 now? Yes.

36:28

She's turning 17 in September. You know, this is

36:30

probably one of the reasons I don't want kids.

36:32

They just make time moves, man. Yes.

36:34

The only time I feel like

36:36

time has moved is when I think

36:38

of how old people's children are.

36:40

Dude, your daughter to me is still

36:43

like a five -year -old.

36:45

Yes. Because you

36:47

met me a year before she was born.

36:49

Yeah. Yes. So to me,

36:51

she's still a small, smart

36:53

five -year -old, 16. Yeah, 16.

36:55

So I look at her and I look

36:57

at how she thinks and how she

36:59

processes things. And she's taught me that letting

37:02

go is actually the best thing you

37:04

can do. She's been with me, obviously, forever.

37:06

And we've lived in different places and

37:08

different houses and she's at different rooms. And

37:10

she's changed schools two, three times in

37:12

her life. But the way she moves around

37:14

the universe amazes me all the time. She

37:17

looks at life as something

37:19

that's going to happen anyway. She

37:22

looks at life as something that's going to happen.

37:24

Yeah, she doesn't look at it as a thing

37:26

that's going to happen if she does something. Yeah,

37:28

okay, I understand what you mean. So I've started

37:30

to look at life like that. When I see

37:32

something new and exciting, I move towards it. When

37:34

I was at the parking lot, I walked around

37:36

cars because I love cars. That was the best

37:38

part of my job. When I went into the

37:40

mall, I faced abundance. When it happened once a

37:42

month when I was young, or once after four

37:44

months when my mom takes me to town, now

37:46

it happened every day. When I started doing comedy,

37:49

I realized you can hang out with your friends.

37:51

and laugh all the time. We had more fun

37:53

offstage than onstage. We would travel, and then someone

37:55

pays for it. We would sleep in a hotel, and

37:57

someone pays for it. And then people would pay

37:59

to hear me talk for 15 minutes, and I

38:01

would go back, and I would still have

38:03

fun and time with my friends. So all

38:05

of my jobs and my choices were all

38:07

linked to my passions. I've never had a

38:09

job I hated. I've never had

38:11

a job that landed me in places I

38:13

didn't want to be in. I've been fortunate

38:15

in that way. I'm abundant in so many.

38:17

Our friendship led me to so much abundance.

38:19

I got to experience being in a private

38:21

jet with you. I got to experience in

38:23

a penthouse. Man, I got to experience those

38:25

things through you, through our friendship and our

38:27

love for comedy and our pure natural gift

38:29

that was just to stand in front of

38:31

people and have a good time. So when

38:33

I close my checking account every night, that's

38:35

what I do. I look at the things

38:37

and the people that I love. And

38:40

I go, did they bring me closer to my

38:42

passions and my joy and things that I would

38:44

have never come close to had I not had

38:46

these things? And I go, your job is done.

38:48

So it's not different from the water of cash

38:50

my mom had. And then she'll

38:52

say, if someone comes and needs something, take it from

38:54

there. Don't ask too many questions. They came because there's a

38:56

need, but they know that you have it. So

38:59

I send everyone to you and I say, he

39:01

has it, go get it. It's an interesting lesson

39:03

to learn. So I choose to do that. We're

39:07

going to continue this conversation. Right

39:09

after this short break. I

39:18

know that I'm loss averse.

39:20

Yes. But

39:22

I think I'm also lucky that I haven't lost

39:24

much in life. Like I realized this when

39:26

my grandmother died. It

39:28

was a crazy realization. I've never lost a

39:30

loved one. It was a huge loss. Like

39:33

I've genuinely never lost a loved one. And

39:35

then I started thinking differently about everyone

39:37

in my life who has. Because

39:39

I was like, damn, this is, for

39:42

me it was even like, it felt like a

39:44

slither of a feeling that another human being

39:46

could have. Because my grandmother died at the age

39:48

of 96, 96, 97. So,

39:52

you know what I mean? In

39:54

a weird way, I wasn't around for all of it.

39:56

But like, you have like 100 years to prepare. Like we

39:58

always think of 100 as this magical number. But I was

40:00

like, we knew she was going. And

40:02

she was healthy till the day she died, died

40:04

in her sleep, the way you dream of going.

40:06

Peacefully, gone. Go to bed. Good night, everybody. See

40:08

you tomorrow. Haha, joke's on you. There's no tomorrow.

40:10

She was gone. You know what I mean? But

40:13

the feeling that I had was

40:15

like, I couldn't believe what I

40:17

was experiencing, like the grief, the

40:19

loss, all of that. So are you

40:21

saying that you don't have that experience? You don't have

40:23

that feeling? I do, but I

40:25

process it quicker because I know it was going

40:27

to happen anyway. So it's my choice to live in

40:29

it. So when it happens,

40:32

I immerse myself in the feeling and

40:34

then let the feeling pass through me.

40:36

So what I used to do before, I would

40:38

let the things get stored in me. I

40:41

had this huge anxiety when I was growing up of what's

40:43

going to happen to me after school. and

40:45

it ruined most of my high school life. I

40:47

never had fun. Literally after school, like every day

40:49

you go, what's happening when the bell rings today?

40:52

No, no, when school finishes. Oh, like school as

40:54

a concept. Yes, because when high school finishes. Yeah,

40:56

when high school is done. And I look back

40:58

and I have these gaps in my memory of

41:00

what fun I could have had in high school

41:02

had I not had that worry. If someone had

41:04

a crystal ball to show me how my life

41:06

would have turned out, I would have enjoyed every

41:08

moment of that school. It was the best

41:10

time I've ever had, but I was too concerned.

41:12

You know, I was worried about what's going

41:14

to happen because in my world, people who did

41:17

well were people who were educated, who were

41:19

successful, you know, who studied something and got into

41:21

a job. So my chances were lower and

41:23

lower and lower as I saw myself 11. Because

41:25

of the school you went to. Exactly.

41:27

And then I knew that my chances of

41:29

being successful. So when I was in a

41:31

car park, I was like, I can be

41:34

happy by proxy. I'm

41:36

here. I'm looking at these fancy cars. I'm around

41:38

them all day long. And I get paid

41:40

to be here. I love music. I

41:42

listen to music and then I get paid to be

41:44

here. I walk around the mall. I get paid to

41:46

be here. I do comedy. I get paid to do

41:48

this. I chose a path.

41:50

It was either do the worrying

41:52

and die or do what

41:54

I love and just live. But I

41:57

chose that because it was my only

41:59

option. I had to learn the lessons and

42:01

remember them from my mom. So I just carried

42:03

them through. So you're able

42:05

to apply that to inanimate and

42:07

animate objects. the

42:09

loss of anything and anyone. Yes. Do

42:12

you process it the same

42:14

or is there a difference? Give me an example

42:16

of something you've lost, like a thing that

42:18

you loved versus a person that you've loved. And

42:20

then I want to understand how you process

42:22

it or is it the exact same way? the

42:24

exact same way. Because remember,

42:27

if I lose a

42:29

watch that I loved and

42:31

I wore every day, right?

42:35

Sentimental value is I remember the things that

42:37

I did to get the watch. Right. I

42:39

remember the places I wore the watch in. Those memories

42:41

are with me. So the watch is with me

42:43

because I'd never wore it to my sleep. I never

42:46

wore it to a shower. So the watch is

42:48

with me. When my son passed

42:50

away, I also realized in the three months,

42:52

I spent the most amount of time with

42:54

him to even the day

42:56

before he passed away. It was just the

42:58

two of us for a few hours.

43:00

The last picture I took was when we

43:02

were just together in a room. How

43:04

old was he he passed away? Three months. Damn. And

43:07

when I think of that loss, whether

43:10

it's a watch or a loved one,

43:12

I think of what do I miss

43:14

about not having this person around? Grief

43:17

is an extended phase of

43:19

regret. Things that

43:21

we never got to do with that person.

43:23

I got to do all I could do

43:25

at the time that he had. Had I

43:27

been absent for three months and he passed

43:29

away in three months, I would have been so

43:31

distraught because I would have nothing to miss.

43:34

But now I miss him. the person that

43:36

he was, because I knew him. If

43:39

I lose my watch, I miss my watch. I

43:41

don't miss the things that the watch did

43:43

for me. It's an object. It

43:45

told time, another object can tell time. If

43:47

it was about Amani, I can buy another

43:49

one. But him, there's no more time that

43:51

I could have extended with him. It ran

43:53

its course. I'm not dealing

43:55

with guilt of something I did wrong or something I

43:57

could have done better. But I was

44:00

going, I wish we could do more. But when I

44:02

look at my daughter, I go, we can do

44:04

more. She's here now. Oh, wow. If

44:06

I look at a watch, I

44:08

go, there are more watches. I can

44:10

go buy another one. But I

44:13

can't cry for things that never happened.

44:15

How do you think that affected

44:17

how you are a father with your

44:19

daughter after losing your son? She became my

44:21

parent. We have this running joke, her and I,

44:23

where I say, in our life before this

44:25

one, she was my mom. And

44:27

then now I get to pay her back. But it looks

44:29

like she still has to do it again. She was just

44:31

a happy person every time. I would look forward to the

44:33

day she comes back from school. And

44:36

then she would high -five me and tell me all sorts of stories. She

44:38

had no time for my sadness. Like, I

44:40

would be like, whew, two days. She'd be

44:42

like, let me tell you. Then she would

44:44

go on and on. Then it became my

44:46

exercise to remember her friends' names. Because

44:48

now I didn't want to be left

44:50

behind in a story. And I was

44:52

like, this person is laughing. She's smiling.

44:55

And she only met her brother the day

44:57

he passed away at the hospital when he was

44:59

certified dead. Damn. So

45:01

this kid. who faced that, what

45:03

I had, I had three months of seeing

45:05

him because he was incubated, but he

45:07

couldn't have contact because he was born too

45:09

early. So obviously a child would have

45:11

brought germs into the house. So he couldn't

45:13

be in the same room with her.

45:15

So the only time he saw her was

45:17

then. So I compared our losses. And

45:20

in retrospect, you must think of it this way. As a

45:23

sibling, she would have had more time with him than

45:25

I would have ever had as a parent. He

45:27

would have outlived me. So she

45:29

has never had that three months with him. but

45:32

I had. So what right did I have to

45:34

wallow in self -pity when all I could be

45:36

doing now is telling her about how great

45:38

this person was? Because she's telling me about strangers

45:40

at school and about how great they are. And

45:43

here we are. And then she was there teaching me how

45:45

to be strong. She was my mom again with that

45:47

word of cash saying, yeah, spend it on things that matter.

45:49

And if someone comes and asks for it, give it

45:51

to them generously. Don't ask questions, just

45:53

share. She was that person for me and she

45:55

still is for me. When I was walking down now to

45:57

come into the car, she was like, do you have your phone?

45:59

And I was like, yes. You have something for

46:01

your lips. Yes. You have a pot

46:03

bank. Yes. She was like,

46:05

fit check. There's

46:09

a beautiful saying. I don't remember

46:11

where I heard this. I

46:13

think it was actually Esther Perel. And

46:16

we're having this conversation and we're

46:18

talking about like children and life and everything.

46:20

And she said one of the most

46:22

beautiful things ever. She said, one

46:25

of the most underappreciated

46:27

aspects. of having

46:29

a child is that it

46:31

forces you to forget yourself oh that's

46:33

deep yeah and i

46:35

remember being like well wait what do you

46:37

mean and she said no she said you

46:39

you take for granted that until you

46:41

are responsible for the life of another human

46:43

being or another creature really yes the only

46:45

life you're responsible for is your own

46:47

and so you you live the most

46:49

selfish of existences whether you like it

46:52

or not yes i'm hungry I'm tired.

46:54

I'm sad. I'm happy. I want to

46:56

do this. I do not want to

46:58

do this. It's only when

47:00

you introduce another human being or living

47:02

being into your life that you're responsible

47:04

for, that you have to, if you are any

47:06

type of decent person, you neglect that now. You forego

47:08

it. Yeah, you forego it. That's a better word,

47:10

yeah. You forego it. It's a different type of meaningful

47:12

and it's like a, in a weird way, it's

47:14

a stupid thing. But I think of people when they

47:16

get dogs. It's pretty crazy. Especially

47:18

understandable, yeah. Yeah, because a person gets a dog.

47:21

And then now they have to go and walk

47:23

the dog. They have to go outside. They have

47:25

to. But in a weird way, the have to

47:27

pushes them out of themselves. So there's a day

47:29

you didn't want to go for a walk. Now

47:32

you're walking. Do you know I'm saying? Yeah.

47:34

And I see that with people and their

47:36

kids, especially people who have either learned the

47:38

lesson or have had the opportunity to fully

47:40

learn the lesson. Absolutely, yeah. They

47:43

forget themselves and in a weird way

47:45

then get to meet other versions of themselves that

47:47

they forgot. Life is about

47:49

us meeting our teachers. Life

47:52

does not have built -in meaning. Life is

47:54

meaningless. And you see that when

47:56

you lock yourself in a room and do nothing. Everything

47:58

else happened without you. Traffic

48:01

happened. Restaurants were open. Until you get out the

48:03

room and interact with the world, then meaning

48:05

happens. Then you walked a long distance. Then you

48:07

ate this great thing. Then you played pickleball

48:09

with your friends. So life has no built -in

48:11

meaning. We give it meaning. But what

48:13

makes life interesting is we're here to learn

48:15

lessons and we keep meeting our teachers along

48:17

the way. And one of the reasons why

48:19

I think our friendship, you and I, has

48:21

endured so long, and it's actually almost the

48:24

same age as my daughter's relationship, is because

48:26

of your childlike nature. You

48:28

look at a world with wonder. You don't look

48:30

at anything as impossible. I remember one

48:32

time you and I were driving somewhere and we were stuck in

48:34

traffic and you said, Eugene. And I said, yes. Because that's

48:36

how we talk to each other. You

48:38

said, you know what we must do? And I said,

48:40

what? He said, we must buy a plane. Oh,

48:44

that sounds like me. I said, eh? He

48:47

said, yes, we must buy a plane. And I was like,

48:49

planes are expensive. He said, yeah, yeah, but they're small

48:52

ones. know, you can buy a Cessna. know what we

48:54

can do? If four comedians come together and we put

48:56

a hundred, a hundred, a hundred, a hundred, then

48:58

if we need to go somewhere, then we can just

49:00

fly the plane. Then I was like, but what if

49:02

we need to go different? He said, yeah, then we'll

49:04

book shows. Then we can all fly in together. We

49:06

can fly in, fly out. Then we'll make it home

49:08

again. You're like, yeah. Then I was like, okay. There

49:11

are many times that you and I did things. I

49:13

mean, we never did. Yes. Just for anyone listening. But

49:15

this was because we were very far from even the

49:18

idea of buying a plane. But fast forward 13 years

49:20

later. No, no, no. I'm with you. You see what

49:22

I'm saying? So you've always had that. The

49:24

day you immigrated to America, I remember I was

49:26

at your house. You said, come over. And then

49:28

I came. Then we played Army of Two. And

49:30

then you're like, oh, I have to go now.

49:32

Then I was like, where are you going? You're

49:34

like, I'm going to America. Then

49:37

I was like, is it a restaurant? Can

49:41

I come too? What's going on?

49:44

And you're like, no, no, I'm... Ah, snap. Then you

49:46

packed your bag, you switched off the thing and you're like,

49:48

oh, you can have these games. I'm not going to

49:50

play them anymore. Then I was like, are you really leaving?

49:52

You're like, yeah. Then I was like, but what time you need to be

49:54

there? Like, I need to be there 30 minutes ago. Then

49:58

there you were in great tracksuit pants.

50:00

You were gone. You went to go

50:02

start a new life and a new

50:04

career elsewhere. And I always looked at

50:07

you and I go, I was telling

50:09

a friend of mine, when you first...

50:11

to become prominent in American culture or in

50:13

the American space. I said, this guy would have

50:15

been successful even though he was a plumber. Comedy

50:18

did not help him become successful. TV

50:20

did not help him become successful. No, thank you, man.

50:22

With anything, it would have been fine because he

50:24

just looks at things like a kid. He looks and

50:26

he goes, tinkers, he opens at the back and

50:28

he touches this thing. With America, he was like, where's

50:30

the most comedy clubs? Where's the most comedy? You

50:32

narrow it down to a place. Okay, how many shows

50:34

can I do? Okay, how many people can I

50:36

see? Okay, how many, how many, how many, how many?

50:38

You look at things like that. And I always

50:40

look at your life and I go, if I was

50:42

like you, I would have been where you are.

50:45

If you were like me, you would have been where

50:47

I am. The wonder and the beauty of how

50:49

we are as two people is we're not alike. That's

50:51

why you and I can sit and speak

50:53

about everything but comedy. We speak about

50:55

cars. We speak about life. So

50:57

I'll always have time for a person

50:59

who looks at life like that. And I think we've

51:01

both shared that. So it's funny. When

51:04

I think of comedy and how

51:06

we shared it, it was the

51:08

same thing. We both had a

51:10

deep love for the idea of

51:12

this. Because what made comedy specifically

51:14

unique at that time in

51:16

South Africa was it wasn't a thing. Like

51:18

a thing thing. Do you know what I mean?

51:20

If you said to anyone in South Africa, your parents,

51:22

your friends, anyone, I'm going to be a comedian,

51:24

I'm going to do comedy, people were like, what is

51:27

that? And there was like

51:29

a few people. not

51:31

even a generation, a few people, a few

51:33

years ahead of us who were doing

51:35

it. You know, the David Gowes and the

51:37

John Flissmases and all these, but it

51:39

wasn't like a long. It wasn't a thing. Yeah, it wasn't

51:41

a thing. It wasn't, you know, a long

51:43

history tradition. So what

51:45

I loved was we were

51:47

a ragtag group of enthusiasts.

51:50

You know, like hobbyists. That's what we were doing

51:52

when we were doing comedy. We were these

51:54

people standing in a field with homemade airplanes and

51:56

we're throwing them and being like, how far

51:58

can yours go? So what I've learned is if

52:00

you turn the wings like this and if, do you get what

52:02

I'm saying? And it's

52:04

funny because I think you have kept

52:06

that more than anybody I know. You

52:09

might say I have childlike Wanda. You

52:11

are the most

52:13

hobby obsessed person I know. I don't

52:15

know anyone who's had more hobbies than you. Everything

52:18

from trail

52:21

riding motorbikes, racing,

52:23

race bikes on a track, shooting

52:27

guns at a range. Started

52:30

golf now. You started golf? Wow,

52:32

there we go. Golf. Then

52:34

you went through like a running phase, like

52:36

you were doing like 20 kilometers, 10 kilometers. Then

52:38

you, I mean, now that I say it

52:40

out loud, I feel like you're turning into a

52:42

white person. This has been a long

52:44

journey. I'm actually, only now that I'm saying

52:46

it, like at it, I'm like, wait a minute. Eugene.

52:54

Oh man. man. When

52:57

I look at what you're doing. Oh

52:59

boy. No, but but you, but you, yeah. You

53:02

and her taught me that. Adventure. That's

53:04

what it is. Go for it. That's what it is. You've always

53:06

been the adventure person. Yeah. You show

53:08

me that all the time. When I see you

53:10

doing something, I'm like, adventure does pay off because you go

53:12

on this wild and you look at. Yeah, but no, no, but

53:14

where we're different though is, and this is why I admire you,

53:16

where we're different is. It's an admiration

53:18

contest. Yeah. And we'll see

53:21

who wins. You, you, um... I

53:24

think one thing that's always inspired me about you. exclude

53:26

myself from that competition. Ryan is

53:28

out. There's no admiration I hold for any of

53:30

you. And

53:32

you know what, Ryan? That's what I love about you. Because

53:34

you don't need to compete with other people. That's

53:36

why I admire you. And

53:43

now it's time for today's

53:45

self -care toolkit segment brought to

53:47

you by Amazon. Whether it's

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delivering medication to your door

53:52

with Amazon Pharmacy or 24

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-7 virtual care with Amazon

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One Medical, thanks to Amazon,

53:58

healthcare just got less painful. Okay,

54:02

can we talk about comfort food when you're sick? Because

54:05

I feel like that's when

54:07

logic leaves the building. All

54:09

logic. Like you'd think being

54:12

sick would make you eat something mild

54:14

and healthy. No, no. For some reason, when

54:16

I'm under the weather, I'm like, you know

54:18

what sounds good right now? A

54:20

giant plate of fries and three

54:22

different kinds of sauce. You mix

54:24

the sauce and it confuses the

54:26

disease. I don't know.

54:28

There's something about being sick that makes your

54:31

cravings totally unhinged. Maybe it's just me.

54:33

And it's different for everyone. For some people,

54:35

it's toast and tea, I've heard. For

54:37

others, it's mac and cheese or pho and

54:39

ice cream. Yes, I've actually heard that.

54:41

Ice cream with pho while

54:43

coughing. I think part

54:45

of it is just nostalgia, you know? Maybe it's

54:47

our brains wanting to feel better and food

54:49

is memory. You know, that one

54:52

soup your grandmother made or whatever your parents

54:54

gave you as a kid when you stayed

54:56

home from school. Maybe that's what it is. Psychological

54:58

reward for sickness. So

55:01

maybe it's not about the food making you better. Maybe

55:03

it's just about making you feel better. And

55:06

that's just as important. Mmm,

55:09

mmm, so profound. Well,

55:11

we hope you gave you some ideas

55:13

for your self -care routine. Today's

55:15

self -care toolkit segment was brought to

55:17

you by Amazon. Thanks

55:20

to Amazon, healthcare just got

55:22

less painful. You've

55:29

always inspired me and you've always reminded me

55:31

to focus on

55:33

being successful at living life. Which

55:36

is something that I think sometimes we forget

55:38

as people. Because I've always

55:40

been good at living work. You know I

55:43

mean? Like I'm really good at that. Plumbing. electrician,

55:46

you name it. I remember someone once said

55:48

to me, they're like, what would you do

55:50

if you wouldn't do comedy? I'm like, anything.

55:52

I would do anything. You'd be

55:54

great at it. Because I'm like, yeah,

55:56

anything, something has to be done. You

55:59

know, I remember my mom said to me one day. That's

56:01

good. Something has to done. It's true. Something has to be done.

56:03

I love that. My mom and I were driving, I don't know,

56:05

from church or somewhere. It was probably from church. We only really

56:07

drove to church together. But we're in

56:09

the car and my mom said to me, She's

56:12

like really angry. And she's like, look, look at these. How

56:14

can people be unemployed? And I was like, mom, what

56:16

do you mean? How can people be unemployed? Sometimes. And then

56:18

my mom said, there's always something to be done. My

56:22

mom said to me, she said, you look in your

56:24

life. She said, before you say

56:26

there's nothing to be done, just go for

56:28

a walk and look around you. There's something to be

56:30

done. I was a teenager at this time, but I

56:32

was like, mom, that's not true. Sometimes there's nothing.

56:34

And then while we were driving, she said, okay, let's

56:36

look on the street. What needs to be done? I

56:39

was like, what do you mean? She's like, look at the street. What needs

56:41

to be done? I was like,

56:43

I don't know. And then she said, does that grass look like

56:45

it's been cut? I was like,

56:48

no. She's like, so clearly that needs to be done. She

56:50

said, so if you go to that house and you say, let

56:52

me cut your grass. And I said, yeah, but what if

56:54

they don't pay me? She said, yeah, then you can still cut

56:56

it though. It will be done. It'll be done. And

56:59

she said, then you'll go and you'll cut and you'll cut. And

57:01

she said, eventually, eventually, somebody's going

57:03

to pay you to cut grass. She said, go and

57:05

look for things to be done because there's

57:07

always something to be done. The phrase my mom

57:09

hated, and I still like, I actually have

57:11

to like work on the opposite now is, whenever

57:14

my mom, like my mom, the phrase she

57:16

hated was, there's nothing to do. I

57:19

have nothing to do. She's like, there's always something to be

57:21

done. What do you mean? But

57:23

what that meant was, it

57:25

meant that I've always been

57:27

completely comfortable in

57:30

work. doing. In the doing, but the

57:32

doing in one specific place. But

57:35

you... have always

57:37

shown me, like, I

57:39

mean, first

57:41

time I rode, like, mountain bikes in South Africa

57:43

was with you. Oh, yeah. Do you know what

57:45

I mean? Yes, that day. Like, we, like,

57:48

and I think, funny enough, that's maybe one

57:50

of the things that you blessed me with

57:52

in comedy is, had I not met

57:54

you, because we literally started comedy about

57:56

a week apart. 100%. In parallel universes. Literally.

57:58

You were there that and I wasn't there,

58:00

and I was there that day, you were not there. But

58:03

literally a week apart, we started comedy. In

58:05

the same venue, in the same city, in

58:07

the same country, right? But

58:09

I think the thing you blessed

58:11

me with in comedy is you always reminded

58:13

me to keep it as a hobby. Like

58:17

always. You've almost always been allergic to

58:19

it being a job. In

58:22

fact, every time people have tried to make it a

58:24

job, I almost feel like you get offended in

58:26

a weird way. And

58:29

had you not done that with me, I

58:31

think I would have let comedy be

58:33

a job. And then if you

58:35

let that happen, oftentimes the joy

58:37

and the wonder that you experience in the thing

58:39

goes away. Yes, it's a have to. Yeah,

58:42

it's a have to and not a want to. Our job

58:44

as humans, we have to tap into our

58:46

DNA and remember why we are here.

58:48

Why do you think we're here? To live

58:51

and fix the things that we didn't do the last time. I

58:54

think our lives are a continuous journey. Our souls

58:56

know why we're here. This body is just

58:58

a vessel. We're just here to remember. It's

59:00

time when we find passions and we find

59:02

places that we're familiar with, but we don't

59:04

know from where. It's because we've been here

59:06

before. We're trying to remember. And that's what

59:08

makes life interesting for me. When I go

59:10

to a place and I'm like, this is

59:12

interesting. I'm like, I remember. There must have

59:14

been something great here that happened somewhere sometime

59:16

that brings me back here again. And I

59:18

live in that world of wonder. where

59:20

I go, I've been here before, I've done

59:22

this thing before. That's why when I

59:25

lose something, I'm like, I must

59:27

have had it before and I had it again

59:29

and it was time for it to go so something

59:31

can happen now. I need to feel something. My

59:33

job in this world, with this vessel, with this

59:35

body, with all of the friends and the

59:37

environment that it has brought me in is to

59:40

feel something. If I feel happy, I know

59:42

I'm feeling. You know, it's so funny you say

59:44

this. One of

59:46

the most transformative thoughts I've

59:48

ever experienced as a person. I

59:53

think I was in Sweden and I was on a mushroom

59:55

trip. And

59:57

you're having this

59:59

beautiful experience, connecting with yourself, connecting

1:00:02

with others. But one of

1:00:04

the things that really hit

1:00:06

me was the idea of energy.

1:00:09

And I'm not a

1:00:11

woo -woo person per se. I'm not very spiritual.

1:00:13

I think you're more spiritual than I am.

1:00:16

No. No, I think you are, and

1:00:18

in a good way. And I think you

1:00:20

remind me of that sometimes. I can be very

1:00:22

didactic. Ironically, to go

1:00:24

back to the Bible, if you look at

1:00:26

the Trinity, it's like, yeah, there's the

1:00:28

mind, there's the body, and then there's the spirit. This

1:00:30

thing that exists in a world that you can't really,

1:00:32

you don't think it and you don't feel it, but

1:00:34

it is, right? And

1:00:37

the thought that I had

1:00:39

was energy. Everything that's happening in

1:00:41

the universe is energy. But like

1:00:43

actual, like even physics energy. I'm not saying

1:00:45

like, ah, it's energy. I'm saying it's actual energy. Right?

1:00:49

Yeah, but I'm not saying it. What did you add to sound

1:00:51

effect? Is that album still available? Ah, it's energy. No, I

1:00:53

don't mean that. Sound effect energy. I don't mean, not even dismissive

1:00:55

to that, but I don't mean that. And

1:00:57

I was thinking to myself once, it

1:01:00

almost feels like

1:01:02

our purpose and our idea,

1:01:04

and it's funny that you just

1:01:06

said that, is to express

1:01:08

the idea. of

1:01:11

what it means to

1:01:13

be by being in relation

1:01:16

to you know so i like i

1:01:18

think of like light is a good example

1:01:20

i always find it crazy because physics is

1:01:22

such a complicated thing my brain i really

1:01:24

struggle to understand this i listen to it and

1:01:26

i remember things but i go i

1:01:28

don't understand it but like one of the

1:01:30

craziest concepts to me is the fact

1:01:32

that i'm not seeing you i'm seeing the light

1:01:34

that is reflected off you right so when we

1:01:36

see a flower we're not seeing the flower really

1:01:38

We're seeing the light that the flower is reflecting.

1:01:42

And when you expand that sort

1:01:45

of infinitely, you know, throughout time, you

1:01:47

go, that is what we all are.

1:01:50

What we all are is reflections of

1:01:52

energy and light that is helping

1:01:54

us to experience the thing that

1:01:56

is happening. And then

1:01:58

to your point, I remember thinking, huh, I

1:02:00

was like, what if the idea of what

1:02:02

we call God or this thing that we've all,

1:02:04

you know, in different religions, different places, different

1:02:06

whatevers we want to call it, What

1:02:09

if it itself

1:02:11

is trying to

1:02:13

experience the thing and that's

1:02:15

why everything is? Do

1:02:17

you know what I mean? 100%.

1:02:19

It makes total sense. It's just

1:02:21

that as people, we avoid that because

1:02:23

it will now make us question everything

1:02:25

that we are. The

1:02:29

choices that we made. the people that

1:02:31

we know, the places that we've been. Yeah, and I think

1:02:33

of all of that as an experiment. It's

1:02:35

a giant experiment. We're in a pituit dish

1:02:37

and someone is busy going... I think of it

1:02:39

as a giant experiment. 100 % true. It's

1:02:42

100 % true. Actually, I think of it

1:02:44

like when scientists shoot lasers or they shoot

1:02:46

even a telescope, what you're doing is

1:02:48

you're getting a reflection of something, right? You're

1:02:50

getting light from a far distance away

1:02:53

and you're getting information from it. And I

1:02:55

wondered, we could literally be the lasers

1:02:57

that are being sent. to come

1:02:59

back with information. So you

1:03:01

driving the way you drove, in a weird way,

1:03:03

I know this sounds crazy, but in a weird

1:03:05

way, you're teaching the entire human race how to drive.

1:03:07

And then you eating, like I

1:03:09

always go, I'm so grateful to people

1:03:11

who ate certain foods and died so

1:03:13

that I know which foods I can eat. I

1:03:16

think of it for pets. I'm like the first

1:03:18

person that tried to tame a wolf. Now

1:03:21

we have puppies. It's pretty crazy. By the

1:03:23

way, have you seen... Doing it for

1:03:25

you, Trevor. So you can walk in a

1:03:27

mall with this thing one day. Have

1:03:29

you seen the videos of those guys who

1:03:31

still do that now? Who tried to

1:03:33

tame wolves? No, not try. Who tame wolves?

1:03:35

Not tame, Eugene. What do you mean?

1:03:37

There's these videos of people who are out

1:03:39

in the mountains. Then they see wolves.

1:03:41

Then they call the wolves like dogs. And

1:03:44

then the wolf is not, obviously, it's not a

1:03:46

dog. But it like looks at them.

1:03:48

It approaches them. And it's

1:03:50

actually quite amenable to you as a person.

1:03:52

And then they start playing with it. And

1:03:54

then you see the wolf going, what is

1:03:56

this that I'm experiencing? This is good. Yeah,

1:03:59

why is this clothed monkey making me

1:04:01

feel good? Like that's

1:04:03

what the wolf is experiencing. And

1:04:05

then like they say that

1:04:07

this is probably how it happened, et cetera,

1:04:10

et cetera. Domestication. Yeah, domestication, et cetera.

1:04:12

But it's amazing to see that stuff. It's

1:04:15

still like that. Did you say or dating? Wow.

1:04:23

Look, one concept that blew

1:04:25

my mind away and also

1:04:27

changed my life was

1:04:29

when I read somewhere, I don't remember where,

1:04:31

where it says everything that you're experiencing is

1:04:33

what you want to experience. So everyone

1:04:35

in my life is a character that I

1:04:37

created for me to have the sum

1:04:39

total of a life experience with feelings and

1:04:41

emotions and a quick fast forward to

1:04:43

the journey that I need. What I signed

1:04:45

up for before I was born, I

1:04:48

knew which characters must come into play. for

1:04:50

me to achieve what I need to

1:04:52

achieve. Damn. So, for you to be

1:04:54

here in a room with me is because I wanted it to

1:04:56

happen. In the back of my mind, Somewhere

1:04:58

in my lesson, in my past life, this should

1:05:01

have happened so that I can lead to

1:05:03

something else. Same with you. So we keep meeting

1:05:05

these soul families, a group of five individuals

1:05:07

that will make a great impact in your life

1:05:09

as you go along. So even if it's

1:05:11

the first stage of your life, there'll be five

1:05:13

that you can mention that matter. As an

1:05:15

adolescent, there'll be five that matter. In your career,

1:05:17

there'll be five that matter. Those are soul

1:05:19

groups. So those are people just come in into

1:05:22

your life and they exist purely for your

1:05:24

assistance. They're here to push you. They're here to

1:05:26

teach you. Even heartbreak is a lesson. Not

1:05:28

all good time. That's why I was asking

1:05:30

you in the beginning, why do you think

1:05:33

pain features so much in the Bible? It's

1:05:35

because heartbreak is an accelerant. Hurt and pain

1:05:37

and loss is an accelerant to feeling something.

1:05:39

You can be comfortable all your life and

1:05:41

not feel anything else. But as soon as

1:05:43

you feel loss and pain, you will remember

1:05:45

that you also had a good time. So

1:05:47

that's what pain and suffering is for. But

1:05:50

suffering is voluntary. So suffering, you choose it

1:05:52

and use it as a medication. You take

1:05:54

it in doses so that you can remember

1:05:56

how good you have it. Someone in a

1:05:58

hospital. right now who has no chance leaving, doesn't

1:06:00

have this privilege that you and I have

1:06:02

to walk downstairs, to walk around, get in

1:06:04

the car, press buttons. And that's all they

1:06:06

want at this moment. But they've had it

1:06:08

maybe for 50 years and never cared for

1:06:10

it. But the suffering accelerated the memory of

1:06:12

the good times that they had. So if

1:06:14

you think about life like that, you can

1:06:16

walk around the mall and see hundreds of

1:06:18

people. But if you think about how many

1:06:20

people you've called and sat with and chatted

1:06:23

with, in most cases, they won't exceed number

1:06:25

five. It's that group of

1:06:27

people that you can rely on and trust

1:06:29

and they always accelerate you to go

1:06:31

further. And those are the people that will

1:06:33

bring heartache, they'll bring laughter, they'll bring

1:06:35

lessons, they'll bring admiration and adoration at the

1:06:37

same time because you need those two

1:06:39

to balance. As much as you admire someone,

1:06:41

someone needs to adore you. That's when

1:06:43

the base romantic relationships work. When there's a

1:06:45

khrutman in the group, someone gets

1:06:47

admired and someone adores the other person. They

1:06:49

adore the fact that they admire them.

1:06:51

And they admire them for the fact that

1:06:53

they adored them. So that's how things

1:06:56

work. This balance that we're always seeking and

1:06:58

just knowing that once you start feeling

1:07:00

something, then something is happening. Growth is pain.

1:07:02

Kids go through that all the time.

1:07:04

Oh, my elbow. Oh, my back. Because they're

1:07:06

growing. Then they go and rest and

1:07:08

everything feels better again. But as adults, what

1:07:10

do we do? We just go and

1:07:12

try to make... not exist because we feel

1:07:14

like when we're feeling pain, we failed.

1:07:17

And when you're feeling pain, you're growing. When

1:07:19

you're tired, like we walked the other time and

1:07:21

we felt it, yeah, then

1:07:23

we did something. I think it's the

1:07:25

ultimate dilemma though. 100%. I'll tell

1:07:27

you why I think it's the ultimate

1:07:29

dilemma is because I think we

1:07:31

should be careful to not make life

1:07:33

about pain. And I'm not saying you're

1:07:35

saying that by the No, absolutely. But I

1:07:37

have noticed there's been a, and maybe this is

1:07:39

not a new thing, but just generally I've noticed a

1:07:41

lot of people, seem to

1:07:43

use pain as the meaning.

1:07:46

Do you know I mean? They go, that's why we're

1:07:48

here. And I'm like, no,

1:07:50

no, no, no, no. Pain is part

1:07:52

of the experience, but I think we should

1:07:54

be careful to not make pain the experience.

1:07:56

Do you get what I'm saying?

1:07:58

And the reason I say this

1:08:00

is because we should also remember

1:08:02

in the same way that we

1:08:05

can not only exist in

1:08:07

fun, good, easy, comfortable,

1:08:09

warm. We also

1:08:11

don't. exist in

1:08:13

cold, boring,

1:08:15

hard, painful. We don't exist

1:08:17

like that. Look

1:08:20

at animals

1:08:22

throughout Africa. Why do they

1:08:24

migrate? Think of the fundamental

1:08:26

concept of migration. It's

1:08:29

an animal going, oh, this land is

1:08:31

about to become arid. It is about

1:08:33

to become cold. It is about to

1:08:35

become unlivable. We're going to go seek

1:08:37

out another place. And oftentimes,

1:08:39

to your point, that journey is hard. But

1:08:42

the thing that they're seeking is not hard. And

1:08:44

so sometimes I get like a little, there's like

1:08:46

a little spidey sense that hits me the way

1:08:48

where I go like, sometimes I go like, guys,

1:08:50

I think we're learning the wrong lesson or we're

1:08:52

applying the lesson incorrectly. Because people will be like,

1:08:54

I'm looking for the pain. And you're not saying

1:08:56

that, but I'm saying, you go like pain's a

1:08:58

lesson. I love that. But people go, no, I

1:09:00

look for pain. I look for the thing. I

1:09:02

look, then I'm like, no, no, no, no, no,

1:09:04

no, no. I argue. But

1:09:07

looking for the thing on the other side,

1:09:09

looking for the rainbow, getting to it

1:09:11

is the pain. You know what I'm saying? Yeah,

1:09:13

the journey. That is the pain. You

1:09:15

want to go and see the view from the highest

1:09:17

peak. The hike

1:09:20

is the pain. But

1:09:22

I get a little thrown off

1:09:24

when people now sell the pain and they make it

1:09:26

seem like that is the... It's like, no, no,

1:09:28

no, no, no. Understand that that is part of it.

1:09:30

You cannot get to a tall peak without experiencing the

1:09:32

pain of the hike. And when

1:09:34

you get there, as you say, funny enough, I love it. That's

1:09:36

a beautiful way to put it. It's an accelerant. That

1:09:38

pain of the walk makes you appreciate the

1:09:40

view even more because you're like, wow, I can't

1:09:42

believe this because I don't get to see

1:09:44

it. And my knees, my legs, my body, my

1:09:46

feeling, my whatever, you know? You know, the

1:09:48

thing is the average person does not know the

1:09:51

difference between suffering and pain. The

1:09:53

first time I came across that was, it was

1:09:55

Viktor Frankl, I think. Really? Yeah. Viktor

1:09:57

Frankl, who was a

1:09:59

psychotherapist and he was a Holocaust survivor. And

1:10:02

I remember reading his work

1:10:04

and he developed a lot of

1:10:06

it, I think, in the Holocaust.

1:10:09

And he said what he learned there

1:10:11

was pain is real, suffering is a choice.

1:10:14

And a lot of people were angry at this. And

1:10:16

he said, no. And he said, I realized this in

1:10:18

the concentration camp. He said, these

1:10:20

Nazis were there and they were wanting

1:10:22

to exterminate me and my people. And

1:10:25

he said, but every day I was like, I can smile if

1:10:27

I want to smile. And I can

1:10:29

choose to enjoy my day. Now, if you

1:10:31

say that, people are like, that's crazy.

1:10:33

But he was like, no, no, no. He's

1:10:36

like, this to me

1:10:38

is real. This part of

1:10:40

my reality, I'm defining. This conversation. Yeah. And

1:10:42

you know when you realize how real it

1:10:44

is to your point, the pain and suffering?

1:10:48

I always think of it in traffic. Depending

1:10:52

on how you feel,

1:10:55

traffic is... either

1:10:57

just a thing that is

1:10:59

happening or it

1:11:01

is the end of your life like

1:11:03

i even think of it like

1:11:05

this funny enough like a podcast is

1:11:08

a great example when i have a

1:11:10

podcast that i'm listening to that i'm enjoying

1:11:12

there is no traffic

1:11:14

there's literally no traffic i'm

1:11:16

listening to a conversation and i'm driving sometimes

1:11:18

i get angry that i get there sooner

1:11:21

than i was anticipating because i haven't finished

1:11:23

the episode now i'm sitting in a parking

1:11:25

lot going Oh, man. I have to leave

1:11:27

these friends of mine. Oh, man. Oh, man.

1:11:29

I thought there was going to be more

1:11:31

traffic. Yeah, but

1:11:33

you get I'm saying? Now I've either reached

1:11:35

the house that I was going to or I've

1:11:37

reached the destination, the office that I was driving.

1:11:40

But I'm angry that there wasn't enough of the

1:11:42

traffic because I enjoy listening in a car. more

1:11:44

perspective. You know what I'm saying? But

1:11:47

if I'm trying to get somewhere. Now,

1:11:50

all of a sudden, I don't have a podcast

1:11:52

and traffic is the worst thing that's ever

1:11:55

happened to me. And so to your point, funny

1:11:57

enough, that's where it's pain versus suffering, right? The

1:11:59

pain is real. Yes, your Wi

1:12:01

-Fi is slow, but you're

1:12:03

not suffering. Yes. So animals know

1:12:05

this better than anyone. So

1:12:07

they migrate because they know that if they

1:12:09

stay here, they're going to suffer. And that's

1:12:11

optional. So they walk towards

1:12:13

the pain so they can avoid the

1:12:16

suffering. So that's what the thing is.

1:12:18

So it's an accelerant in that way that we

1:12:20

need to walk towards it. But if you

1:12:22

stay, you suffer. So suffering is always

1:12:24

regret of things you would have done had

1:12:26

you enjoyed the pain. Yo, damn,

1:12:28

that's deep. I thought I was talking

1:12:30

to a comedian. Yo, I wasn't prepared

1:12:32

for this. Oh, I

1:12:35

wasn't ready. That's a deep one, man.

1:12:37

So you're there doing it. Yeah, no.

1:12:39

But just say that again. So suffering

1:12:41

is if you stay. And

1:12:44

then pain is what you go through when you walk

1:12:46

away from suffering. So it's like you

1:12:48

choose, do you? Because it's going to

1:12:50

be regret. No, you can apply it to everything. Yeah, it's

1:12:52

going to be regret and suffering. Going to the gym

1:12:54

is painful. Painful. Being overweight is suffering. Being

1:12:56

unhealthy and dying. Yeah. And making other

1:12:58

people have to that. No, and not being

1:13:00

able to walk upstairs, carry your kids,

1:13:02

lifting your suffering. Yes. Should I have

1:13:04

met, should I have cancelled and said, ah, I'm busy.

1:13:07

And I didn't go. Now I'm to sit here and suffer

1:13:09

and regret. Who could have been doing this? I could have

1:13:11

just been here. I walk towards it. I

1:13:13

had to do this. I had to do that.

1:13:15

Yeah, I don't want to get up now. Oh, should

1:13:17

I get dressed now? Oh, let me go. Then

1:13:19

I'm here. Then the pain. Then I'm here at the

1:13:21

mountaintop, like you said, and I'm looking at this

1:13:24

view. Animals do it instinctually. They know that if

1:13:26

they stay, they suffer. If

1:13:28

they move, they feel pain. But it's ultimately

1:13:30

worth it because it's an accelerant to

1:13:32

good times. Always when you have to have

1:13:34

a little bit of pain, the reward

1:13:36

is far greater. So when people have become

1:13:38

numb, like you said, that's where the

1:13:40

pain starts. That's where the meanness in people

1:13:42

is. That's where the impatience is. That's

1:13:44

where the intolerance is. Because we now avoid

1:13:46

suffering and pain at the same time.

1:13:49

Now you're numb. So that's why I say

1:13:51

when the day finishes and I'm in

1:13:53

pain, I know that there's something nice. not

1:13:55

when i have regret i shouldn't have

1:13:57

gone there why did i even go

1:13:59

yeah i shouldn't have gone why But

1:14:02

if I'm going, oh, my neck, oh, this,

1:14:04

oh, my finger because of doing this all day,

1:14:06

oh, this and that, I've never regretted those

1:14:08

days. I always wake up the next morning and

1:14:10

go, I know exactly why this part is

1:14:12

so. But because that pain accelerated me to learn

1:14:14

a new skill and learn how this person,

1:14:16

we've sat in cars so many times, you and

1:14:18

I. And we don't like sitting in cars,

1:14:20

but we love cars. In the car, we know

1:14:22

that we play music in the background and

1:14:24

I've always criticized your music choice. But

1:14:27

it allows conversation because we're not this

1:14:29

thing. It

1:14:31

allows conversation. I

1:14:33

was playing the Tchaikovsky and all

1:14:35

these. And I'm like, Trevor, is

1:14:37

this an elevator? He like sort

1:14:39

of. And then we're there,

1:14:42

we have these, and we're in a contained

1:14:44

environment, in traffic, like you said, but we

1:14:46

don't see the traffic. And we get to

1:14:48

have these conversations extendedly. But then when I

1:14:50

look at myself, I'm like, I hate being

1:14:52

in a car for that long. But when

1:14:54

we're together, we're having this conversation. It accelerated

1:14:56

that for us. It facilitated that. So when

1:14:58

we start looking at people, events, time, our

1:15:00

bodies and objects as an accelerant for us

1:15:02

to remember who we really are and

1:15:04

what we're here to do, then life becomes

1:15:06

this journey where regrets don't exist. Because

1:15:08

everything that happened that I didn't enjoy was

1:15:11

accelerating me to my growth. And why

1:15:13

would I hate something that made me grow?

1:15:15

I loved all of it. Missing

1:15:17

most of the day of school that day,

1:15:19

had homework to catch up on. I

1:15:22

couldn't trade that for the world when I'm

1:15:24

sitting with my mom. I often think

1:15:26

when I was 10 years old, my

1:15:28

mom had just

1:15:30

turned almost 40. She

1:15:33

was young. She took the time. She could

1:15:35

have hung out with her friends. I'm 43 right now. She

1:15:37

could have hung out with her friends, you know? It

1:15:39

is weird to think about how young our parents were.

1:15:41

but she chose to. Yeah. She made sure she swapped shifts

1:15:43

with someone. She took that shift. She would take me

1:15:45

and they would hang out. She'd listen to. So I

1:15:47

think of those times and I go, if I think

1:15:49

of the homework that piled up and my friends were

1:15:51

telling me about the soccer match that they had after

1:15:53

school, blah, blah. And I'm thinking about the time I

1:15:55

laid in the grass with my mom in the park.

1:15:58

And I'm like, I couldn't swap that for the world. Now

1:16:00

I appreciate the effort she put into

1:16:02

making sure that she accelerates my growth by

1:16:04

feeling that little bit of pain of

1:16:06

homework catch up. She accelerated me

1:16:08

in knowing who I really am. I love nature.

1:16:10

I love being at the outside. I love

1:16:12

being at the park. I love laughing. I love

1:16:14

dreaming and just lying there and looking up

1:16:16

and having a good time. So when I look

1:16:18

at my life in my late 30s and

1:16:20

40s, and I look at my life in my

1:16:22

10s, and I'm like, there was always grass. There

1:16:25

was always a park. I was at Burgers Park, a

1:16:27

park in Pretoria that's derelict. And I got to

1:16:29

spend time in the most prestigious park in the world

1:16:31

that people dream of going to. And I got

1:16:33

to lie in the grass there and daydream again about

1:16:35

my life. And things that I thought of three

1:16:37

years ago in that park, I have them

1:16:39

now. So

1:16:41

I'm not wrong. Somewhere, somehow, there's

1:16:43

energy that's vibrating towards helping me

1:16:45

get to where I'm going. What

1:16:47

do you do when you feel disconnected

1:16:49

from that? And

1:16:53

maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm even projecting. But

1:16:55

I think one of the things I've noticed you

1:16:57

and I both share is there'll be moments where

1:16:59

we feel disconnected from that. And then it's like, you don't

1:17:01

want to go outside and you don't want to be

1:17:03

part of the world and you don't want to see the

1:17:05

thing and you don't, you know what I mean? How

1:17:08

do you get back to that? I look at pictures. Phones

1:17:10

are the greatest invention ever. I look

1:17:12

at places that I've been to and I remember the feelings

1:17:14

that I had there. Then I go, what

1:17:16

is the quickest way I can replicate this if I can't

1:17:18

go there? Then I'll find a

1:17:20

patch of grass and I'll find a park.

1:17:22

Then I'll find sunshine. I'll wear my walking shoes

1:17:24

and I'll start walking for kilometers and kilometers.

1:17:26

You've got walking shoes? Yes. What are they? Adidas

1:17:29

shoes, but I use them for walking. It's

1:17:31

just walking shoes. No, they're running shoes, but I use

1:17:33

them for walking. Oh, I thought it's like, this is

1:17:35

all they can do. Like if someone chased you, you're

1:17:37

like, hey, buddy, you chose the

1:17:39

wrong day, man. Oh, snap. Oh, man. I

1:17:41

got my walking shoes on. Oh, I

1:17:43

would have gotten away from you. When

1:17:47

I look at those and I put them

1:17:49

on, I know I'm going to walk now.

1:17:51

And I know what that means to me

1:17:53

and what I'll remember. The thing that we

1:17:55

do worst in our lives is not to

1:17:57

remember. We must

1:18:00

remember. You and I have memories between us. We

1:18:02

don't have anything physical. Yeah. Nothing

1:18:04

at all. But we have memories. We go, ah,

1:18:06

that guy. There was this time when we did

1:18:08

this. Then we laugh. Then we move on to

1:18:10

other people and other things. And then after that,

1:18:12

we remember things that they did. And we come

1:18:14

back to the memory again. Remember that thing. So

1:18:17

that's all I have. So when I feel like... dive

1:18:19

deep into that hole of suffering. Then I realize

1:18:21

this is self -imposed. My bike is outside. My

1:18:23

thing is there. My daughter is in the

1:18:25

other room. My PlayStation. So I go, why are

1:18:28

you choosing this? And I go, yeah, but

1:18:30

yeah. But I go, look at my sneakers and

1:18:32

go, I can wear those to go outside

1:18:34

right now. And it's within my grasp and reach.

1:18:36

And I tell you now, whenever I walk,

1:18:38

I see the cars that I love. I

1:18:41

see a Porsche 911 walk, driving, and I'm

1:18:43

going, if I was in my room, I

1:18:45

would never have seen this. Is this a

1:18:47

coincidence? So

1:18:49

there's a French philosopher.

1:18:51

He talks about

1:18:53

luck and the surface areas

1:18:55

of luck. Wow. Right? I

1:18:58

know I'm going to butcher some of it, but I remember it

1:19:00

for the most part. Essentially, what he

1:19:02

talked about, and this was like a

1:19:04

long time ago, but what he talked

1:19:06

about was how luck is always happening.

1:19:09

It's continuous, okay? however

1:19:11

there are different types of

1:19:13

luck that you can choose to participate

1:19:15

in and so he said

1:19:17

the first type of

1:19:19

luck is dumb luck pure

1:19:21

chance has nothing to do with

1:19:23

you and that luck is

1:19:25

who you were born to when you

1:19:27

were born where you were born what you

1:19:30

look like what there's certain things where it's

1:19:32

like hey man things that are outside of

1:19:34

your control completely outside of your control You

1:19:36

were born in the Philippines. Okay, you were

1:19:38

born in the Philippines. You were born in

1:19:40

Estonia. Okay, you were born in Estonia. That's

1:19:43

it, right? That's like a dumb

1:19:45

luck. Then the second type

1:19:47

of luck that he talks about is luck

1:19:49

of motion. And this is where things

1:19:51

start to get interesting. So he goes, there's

1:19:54

luck that happens to you merely

1:19:57

because you start moving, right?

1:20:00

Both literally and figuratively.

1:20:03

There's luck of motion. So if you lie

1:20:05

in bed all day, you

1:20:07

can never bump into somebody

1:20:09

by chance in the mall,

1:20:11

on the street, in a

1:20:13

restaurant. Motion. Motion. But now

1:20:16

remember, it's very important to

1:20:18

remind people and myself all the

1:20:20

time. Remember, luck

1:20:22

can be good or bad. So I'm not saying this is a

1:20:24

good thing. I'm just saying it is. Because

1:20:26

if you don't get out of bed, you can never stub your

1:20:28

toe. Like

1:20:31

that, yeah. So it goes

1:20:33

both ways. As soon as you

1:20:35

start to increase your motion, there is

1:20:37

going to be a higher probability of

1:20:39

luck happening in your life. So

1:20:41

you've created your luck. And lucky people

1:20:43

generally are people who try and facilitate

1:20:45

more motion in their lives because they consider themselves lucky.

1:20:47

So you'll go, why did you buy a raffle

1:20:49

ticket? I'm a lucky kind of guy. Then

1:20:51

another person's like, I don't have any luck.

1:20:53

That's why I don't even bother buying

1:20:55

it. But that motion sets in place. the

1:20:59

effect that you then experience then

1:21:01

you have the third one which

1:21:03

i think is like a lack of

1:21:05

awareness they have different names for

1:21:07

but lack of awareness and that one

1:21:09

is literally what you ironically you

1:21:11

see let's say you you did your

1:21:13

motion you left your house you

1:21:15

went outside the porsche drives by so

1:21:17

you've got to experience the

1:21:19

porsche right wrong you experienced it because

1:21:21

of what you were aware it was there Do

1:21:24

you know I mean? So now you go, wow, I'm

1:21:26

so lucky that a Porsche drove by and a Porsche is

1:21:28

my favorite car. Yeah, but

1:21:30

you're also lucky because you were aware of

1:21:33

it. If you were walking around with your

1:21:35

head in your phone and headphones on, now you

1:21:37

weren't aware of what was happening. So there's some people who

1:21:39

go, I'm so lucky to have such great people in

1:21:41

my life. Yes, but you have to be aware that you

1:21:43

have great people in your life. Otherwise, you're not going

1:21:45

to be lucky to have great people in your life. Awareness

1:21:48

is one of the key ones. The awareness

1:21:50

of luck. And that again, that awareness can go

1:21:52

the other way. If you are aware of

1:21:54

the negative more than you are aware of the

1:21:56

positive, you will feel like you have terrible

1:21:58

people in your life. have terrible

1:22:00

things happening to you. You live in

1:22:03

a terrible country. You know what

1:22:05

I mean? People like that. I'm amazed, by the way,

1:22:07

when I travel the world, regardless of where I

1:22:09

go, there are some people who think they're living in

1:22:11

the greatest country ever and some people who think

1:22:13

they're living in the worst country. It doesn't matter

1:22:15

where I go. I've talked to Americans

1:22:17

who say, This is, oh my God,

1:22:19

I can't believe, I'm so lucky to be in America.

1:22:21

I mean, have you seen this country? And then I talked

1:22:23

to Americans who are like, I can't, I mean, this

1:22:25

is the worst country. I wish I could live anywhere else.

1:22:27

Then I'm like, so the two of you are in

1:22:29

the same place. What are you

1:22:31

aware of that the other one isn't? Or what are you choosing

1:22:33

to be aware of? So

1:22:35

that's the luck. You've got dumb luck,

1:22:38

luck of motion, luck of awareness. And

1:22:40

then the last one, this reminds me of you, is

1:22:42

luck of uniqueness or luck of

1:22:44

specialization. And this

1:22:46

is a luck that will only

1:22:48

happen to you if you choose

1:22:51

to engage in something that requires

1:22:53

an active and specialized thought. You

1:22:55

are way less likely to

1:22:58

meet Lionel Messi

1:23:00

if you are not in football. Do

1:23:04

you know what I mean? Not saying you

1:23:06

will or won't, but I'm saying you're

1:23:08

way less likely to meet Lionel Messi if

1:23:10

you are not in football. You're

1:23:13

way less likely to meet a Supreme Court Justice

1:23:15

of the United States if you're not in law. Trevor

1:23:19

Noah is less likely to meet Eugene Cosa

1:23:21

if they're not both in comedy. Comedy was our

1:23:23

uniqueness. Can I add something else to your

1:23:25

dumb luck? When I

1:23:27

came back from PE two years ago, I

1:23:30

found this place on the internet without even looking. Without

1:23:32

even viewing it, I just moved in. We just

1:23:34

moved from the beach house. place you live in

1:23:36

now. And then you bought a house 12 minutes

1:23:38

away from me. Dumb luck. But no, that wasn't

1:23:41

dumb luck, funny enough. That was luck of motion.

1:23:43

Yes. Because you chose a place.

1:23:45

Yes. And I chose a place. Yes. But the

1:23:47

last one, to your point, the most important

1:23:49

one was, even us, Ryan, if you think about

1:23:51

it, like comedy. We've

1:23:53

chosen to like hone

1:23:55

in on this thing like a,

1:23:58

you know, I remember telling

1:24:00

Dave Chappelle, I think it was like his

1:24:02

50th birthday where this happened. 50th birthday or

1:24:04

one of the other shows. And anytime Dave

1:24:06

is performing somewhere and I can go, I'll

1:24:08

go. And then Dave

1:24:10

loves comedy and he loves comedians. So

1:24:13

Dave says to me, he's like, yo, are you jumping on? And

1:24:15

I was like, no, I'm not jumping on. And he's like, why not? Then

1:24:18

I was like, Dave, I'm not jumping on

1:24:20

because I didn't come to do comedy. I came to watch

1:24:22

comedy. And more importantly, I came to watch you as Dave

1:24:24

Chappelle. I'm here to enjoy the show. Then he's

1:24:26

like, no, but you got to jump on. You got

1:24:28

to jump on. Come on. Why? Why you not jumping?

1:24:30

And he was like, and then I had to think

1:24:32

about it hard because he sort of didn't understand. He was

1:24:34

like, do you not want to jump on because it's my

1:24:36

show? I was like, are you crazy? Then I realized

1:24:38

what it was. I was like, Dave. you

1:24:41

have to understand that I also

1:24:43

love this thing beyond me

1:24:45

doing it so much that getting

1:24:47

to come and like appreciate because I see how

1:24:49

much you love it. I drive joy. So

1:24:52

if I come here and do the comedy, some

1:24:55

of my awareness is dull because I'm

1:24:57

thinking of myself. I'm thinking of my

1:24:59

jokes. I'm thinking of my point of

1:25:01

view, my performance. Yeah, was I dressed

1:25:03

for this? All of it. I'm thinking

1:25:05

of me and now I get to

1:25:07

miss you. You as Dave Chappelle, I

1:25:09

get to mis -argue me the greatest comedian

1:25:11

of our generation because I just wasn't

1:25:13

aware because I was self -aware.

1:25:16

You know I mean? Don't

1:25:18

go anywhere because we got more What

1:25:20

Now after this. Those

1:25:29

steps that you've just mentioned, what I would

1:25:31

do before this conversation, I would club them

1:25:34

all together into motion. Okay, got

1:25:36

it. I would look at it as I

1:25:38

did something and they did something and then we

1:25:40

did. Something happened. I wouldn't look at it

1:25:42

as the way that you broke it down. It

1:25:44

makes so much sense now. And I also

1:25:46

feel like we've become lazy to dream. I think

1:25:48

most of us, that's the one thing we have

1:25:50

for free. Our imagination, our dreams. Just lay back

1:25:52

and just think of what you want and it

1:25:54

will appear in front of you. And I learned

1:25:56

this weird concept. I was telling this friend of

1:25:59

mine, I said, everything that I've had

1:26:01

that I enjoyed and that I acquired

1:26:03

immediately was I never put time to

1:26:05

it. I said, I have this thing

1:26:07

and I have it now. And I can't

1:26:09

wait to touch it and feel it.

1:26:11

And that thing happened. But there's things that

1:26:13

I've always put far ahead in my

1:26:15

life. And I said, yeah, one day, one

1:26:17

day, one day. Because I've been non -specific

1:26:19

about what I want. The thing keeps

1:26:21

becoming a dream. And I said, I'm very

1:26:23

aware. that also that can be

1:26:25

an addiction on itself, postponing your own joy,

1:26:27

success, and happiness into the future. Because somehow you

1:26:29

feel like you yourself, you're undeserving, you're not

1:26:31

worthy, you're not ready. So you keep saying, one

1:26:33

day I'm going to make a lot of

1:26:35

money. One day I'm, what's a lot of money?

1:26:37

And then you keep saying that because you

1:26:40

don't want to be, because you want to commit

1:26:42

yourself to it. You know, same way I

1:26:44

don't write my set down. There's things I'd never

1:26:46

wanted to commit myself to. And now I'm

1:26:48

specific. If I want to see a 9 -11

1:26:50

red one, I'll say it to myself and I'll

1:26:52

see a red one. And I'll see

1:26:54

it twice in a day. And I'll be like, yeah, I

1:26:56

saw it because now I'm aware. Now you've made me aware.

1:26:58

That it's my awareness that's heightened. I also

1:27:00

was in motion. And uniqueness. And uniqueness.

1:27:02

And I was specific. And I also

1:27:05

get specific about what I want. So I'm

1:27:07

learning that now recently. That I must

1:27:09

be specific with what I want. I

1:27:11

even see it in my mind's eye.

1:27:13

Can I tell you what I think

1:27:15

it is though? Yes. So I argue

1:27:17

that most of the time

1:27:19

the reason we're not specific with what we want. is

1:27:22

because we do not know what we want. I

1:27:25

believe that all of

1:27:27

us as human beings, we do not know what we

1:27:29

want. I

1:27:31

think we know what we don't want, but we don't know

1:27:33

what we want. And I think if you live life

1:27:35

thinking you know what you want,

1:27:37

you're going to find yourself constantly disappointed when

1:27:39

you get there and realizing that it

1:27:41

is not doing what you thought it would

1:27:43

do, right? So all of us

1:27:45

grow up. you're a young boy,

1:27:48

maybe some girls as well, depending on

1:27:50

society, whatever, you go, I want a

1:27:52

Ferrari when I grow up. But

1:27:54

nobody has ever sat us down to say, why?

1:27:58

Why do you, as a four -year -old,

1:28:00

who has never paid any bill in your life, think you

1:28:02

want a Ferrari? He doesn't even know how to drive. Why

1:28:04

do you think you want a Ferrari? Because

1:28:07

it's fast and because it's... Because

1:28:09

it's red. And because like, yeah,

1:28:11

but why? What are all those

1:28:13

things going to do? What is

1:28:15

it that you? And then

1:28:17

what happens in life? Boys

1:28:19

grow into men

1:28:21

who then work to get towards something.

1:28:24

Girls grow into women who work towards

1:28:26

something. And then they get the thing. They

1:28:28

get the Ferrari. They get the

1:28:30

wedding. They get the big house. The

1:28:32

job. They get the job. The salary. They

1:28:34

get all these things. And

1:28:36

then what happens? There's a deep

1:28:38

emptiness inside you. And

1:28:40

that deep emptiness is the realization that the thing

1:28:42

that you want has not made you feel like

1:28:44

you thought it would make you feel. Because

1:28:47

you never had it. So how would you know that

1:28:49

it would make you feel that way? Because you've never

1:28:51

had it. And this is

1:28:53

the thing that I literally realized this for my life. And

1:28:55

then I challenge my friends and anyone I talk to about

1:28:57

this. They'll go, man, I really want that

1:28:59

thing. Then I go, why do you want it? No,

1:29:01

because, you know, if I can, man, if I

1:29:03

can get that job, then I go like, okay, then

1:29:05

what will happen? I'm just going to, then I'll

1:29:07

feel like my life is, then I'm like, you're lying.

1:29:11

You're lying. Do you know how I know

1:29:13

you're lying? Because you've never had the job. So how do

1:29:15

you know that the job will make you feel that way? We

1:29:18

all want to feel a certain way, but

1:29:21

we don't know what the

1:29:23

thing is that will complement or help

1:29:25

us feel that way. We don't

1:29:27

know. That's what brings me to the

1:29:29

initial subject that we started with when

1:29:31

I said when we hang out

1:29:33

with people that have normal jobs. Yeah.

1:29:35

Because we get to experience their

1:29:38

milestones from the outside. So

1:29:40

when someone, that's what I said to you, when someone

1:29:42

looks at a car and says, that's a nice

1:29:44

car. You and I remember a time when they looked

1:29:46

at another car and said, nice car. When we

1:29:48

hear them going, I can't get off because

1:29:50

of. But you and I remember a time

1:29:52

when they wanted the gig. Yeah.

1:29:55

But now. I hope I get

1:29:57

this job. So that's why I

1:29:59

said, this is coming full circle.

1:30:01

That's where I find when I'm

1:30:03

with friends that have. structured,

1:30:05

normal jobs. That's where I get to measure

1:30:08

what people's needs really are versus what they

1:30:10

want are. Because they wanted this thing so

1:30:12

bad, they dreamt about it. They knew if

1:30:14

they reach this level and get this kind

1:30:16

of a job and position, this is what

1:30:18

it means. But when I'm with them now,

1:30:20

I don't have the time for this anymore.

1:30:22

You know how much things here cost? The

1:30:24

thing that they dreamt about the most. You

1:30:26

know, it's so funny. You are, I

1:30:29

mean, I've never said this to anyone because it would be

1:30:31

weird, but you are one of the reasons I left

1:30:33

The Daily Show. I'm

1:30:36

sorry. Not.

1:30:40

Because you knew how he felt about people

1:30:42

with jobs. What

1:30:49

an evil man.

1:30:52

No, you know why? There's a

1:30:54

conversation you and I had

1:30:56

many years ago, maybe like 10

1:30:58

years ago, somewhere there. And

1:31:00

you said to me, again, as usual, we're

1:31:02

in a car, we're driving somewhere. And you

1:31:04

said, make sure

1:31:07

you learn how to starve yourself

1:31:09

before somebody starves you. And

1:31:11

I was like, what? I was like, yo, this is deep. Because

1:31:13

we were going to buy Nando's or something. Probably.

1:31:15

I like, this is a strange, is this like a

1:31:17

euphemism for, are you telling me you're not going to

1:31:19

pay? What is happening here? And

1:31:21

then you said, no, you said you must learn how to

1:31:24

starve yourself before somebody starves you. And I was like,

1:31:26

what are you talking about? And oftentimes you'll say crazy things

1:31:28

to me and I'm like, we're friends, so I just

1:31:30

listen. But

1:31:32

when you broke it down, you said, If

1:31:34

you have never starved yourself, you don't know what

1:31:36

it is like to starve. And

1:31:39

so when you are starved by

1:31:41

somebody else or a situation, you

1:31:44

will now be panicking because you don't know what

1:31:46

it is like to starve. You know what

1:31:48

I mean? So to use

1:31:50

like a silly analogy, if

1:31:53

you lift weights,

1:31:55

the day you need to lift something, you

1:31:58

are familiar with lifting as a concept. Yeah, you've

1:32:00

lifted things to yourself. You've made yourself lift

1:32:02

heavy things. So now when you have to lift

1:32:04

a heavy thing, you know how to lift

1:32:06

a heavy thing and you're not like, it might

1:32:09

still be heavy, but at least you know

1:32:11

how to lift things, right? And

1:32:13

when you said that to me, it stuck with

1:32:15

me and we talked a little bit more about

1:32:17

it and we talked a little bit more about

1:32:19

it. And I remember when I was

1:32:22

going to leave the daily show, the

1:32:24

thing that stuck with me was how,

1:32:27

very few

1:32:30

people considered the

1:32:32

notion that I could

1:32:34

want something that wasn't what was

1:32:36

supposed to be wanted. People

1:32:38

were like, but why would you leave? It's the

1:32:40

Daily Show. And I was like, yeah, and it's

1:32:43

a beautiful thing. They're

1:32:45

like, yeah, but why would you leave? Then I'm like, why do

1:32:47

I leave a park? I go to a

1:32:49

beautiful park. But now what?

1:32:51

So you want me to just live at Central Park now?

1:32:54

Yeah, but it's so stunning. I would. There

1:32:57

are people, you say that. I think you would. But

1:33:00

you're like, yeah, just because it's beautiful doesn't

1:33:02

mean that it never has to end. You know,

1:33:04

coming back to what you're saying about endings. Like

1:33:07

literally, I'm not even joking. You taught me that like

1:33:09

in so many ways. I was like, yeah, but when

1:33:11

does it end? And I'm not saying you have to

1:33:13

do it to make it end. But it's like, yeah,

1:33:15

but when does it end? And it

1:33:17

was so interesting having some conversations with

1:33:19

people at The Daily Show. Some

1:33:21

people who I said to them, I said, so are you

1:33:23

going to be here forever? And

1:33:26

then they would just look at me and go, oh,

1:33:30

well, actually. And some people were honest enough to say,

1:33:32

well, actually, there's this project that I was actually

1:33:34

going to leave and I'm thinking of doing. So I'm

1:33:36

like, so you two at some point are going

1:33:38

to leave. Even like a viewer, there's

1:33:41

some people who will say, I used to watch the show all

1:33:43

the time. I really loved you on it. Why

1:33:45

did you leave? Then I go, but you used to

1:33:47

watch. When did you stop? You left. Then they

1:33:49

go. well, I stopped after the pandemic and then, but

1:33:52

I love the show. Then I'm like, yes, but

1:33:54

you stopped watching and you didn't now hate me. You

1:33:56

just stopped watching. And that's beautiful. So

1:33:59

if you are able to acknowledge and

1:34:01

understand that things are going

1:34:03