0:00

Okay, as soon as you're ready, I'm ready.

0:03

I'm ready. All right. Let's

0:05

do it. Go. Action. And

0:08

action. Do

0:11

you like the and when they do and

0:13

action or do you just like action? And.

0:17

Doesn't and just become, isn't it like saying

0:19

action, action basically? No, because and is

0:21

before action. So it's half the beat

0:23

before, it's like saying one,

0:26

two, three, go. Same thing. Same

0:28

idea. So it just gives everybody like a

0:30

moment to. Yes. As opposed to

0:33

action. Oh, yeah, I can feel that. You feel that?

0:35

I can feel that. Does the, does the way

0:37

a director kick off a scene influence

0:40

how the scene goes? It

0:42

can. Like if you're doing like

0:44

a really intimate, calm scene or

0:46

like and someone's like action, does that

0:48

throw everything off or. What

0:52

do you think? I don't know. I

0:54

genuinely don't know. Yes, it would absolutely throw it off.

0:56

It would be a disaster for everyone. Oh,

0:59

I want to be the director who switches it up. And

1:01

action Will Smith. That's

1:03

great. That's great. Love the way

1:05

you ran across the bridge. This

1:12

is What Now? With Trevor

1:14

Noah. Today's

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growing brand, let's be honest, having a

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good website is incredibly important. And

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look, I love tech just as much as

3:00

the next guy, but if you're

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like me, the thought of making a

3:04

website from scratch, well, it can be

3:06

pretty daunting. Well that is, unless

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you have all the right tools, like

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search engine optimization features, because

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code TRAVOR. Trevor. Welcome

3:46

to another episode of What Now, the

3:48

podcast where we have interesting conversations with

3:50

interesting people who oftentimes make us think

3:52

or feel. And I think our

3:55

guest today is honestly,

3:57

you know, the pinnacle of that. Like

10:00

you make a sitcom, and

10:02

then you hope that another one comes, and

10:05

then maybe there's a movie and then your life

10:07

is over. You've

10:09

broken that mold time and time again. And

10:12

when I speak to people who are in the

10:14

industry, like if I say, oh, I'm

10:16

gonna be talking to Julia Louis-Dreyfus, it's amazing how

10:18

they all admire you for

10:21

forging like a new idea of

10:23

what you can do. Do

10:27

you feel that for yourself as well? Like

10:30

what I mean is, do you

10:32

think to yourself, I'm going to do

10:34

something new purposefully, or is

10:37

it the luck that's coinciding with you just wanting

10:40

to work? It's not necessarily

10:42

something new. I wouldn't sort of

10:45

characterize it as such. I would say,

10:47

I'm gonna do something that gets me

10:49

going, and I'm gonna find that again.

10:52

Does that make sense? That makes complete sense. Yeah, that's

10:54

what I'm looking for, that. And

10:59

it's exciting. It's kind of

11:01

like fishing. You don't know what's gonna bite. Do

11:03

you fish? I do. Really?

11:06

Yeah. What kind of fishing? Any kind

11:09

I can do if I'm on a boat or

11:11

if I'm near a river. I'm not very good

11:13

at it, but I do love it. There's

11:15

something about the excitement, you don't know what's

11:17

coming. And I sort of feel that way

11:19

about jobs, touch wood. I'm

11:24

also superstitious. Okay,

11:27

I like that. So you just go, I don't know what's

11:29

gonna happen, I don't know what it's gonna be, but I'm

11:31

gonna jump into this excitedly and then see. Yeah, totally.

11:34

What do you like about working? Because I feel

11:36

like everyone has a different thing. Some

11:38

people are running away from something, some people are

11:41

running towards something. So what do you like about

11:43

working? I like, well,

11:48

there are a few things I like. I like being part of

11:50

a team, because when

11:52

you're working on something, as

11:55

actors and with crew and

11:57

the director and so on, part

12:00

of a team, you're all working towards

12:02

this common goal of making whatever this

12:04

is. Right, right. And

12:06

I'm making the assumption that everybody's

12:08

on the same page. That's not

12:10

always the case. Sometimes people are

12:12

bumping heads. But let's just assume

12:14

when it's really working, that part

12:16

of it is incredibly satisfying. And

12:18

then I

12:21

like the play of work. I

12:24

like playing. I like the

12:26

playfulness of being an actor. That just really appeals

12:29

to me. And were you like,

12:31

I've met you out and I feel like at the club,

12:33

I want everybody to know this, you were partying hard, we

12:35

were at the club. It was a good time. It was

12:37

a great time. I was like, JLD, what you doing in

12:39

the club? She's like, I can't hear you. I was like,

12:42

that's because we're in the club. But

12:44

when we met- And we were wasted. Number

12:48

one, when I met you out, I was

12:51

pleasantly surprised at how close you are

12:53

to some of the characters you play.

12:56

Obviously not as crazy and as quirky as some

12:58

of the moments, but there's the underlying current

13:02

of you in everything. Sure. And

13:05

then in this new movie, for

13:07

instance, that you're in Tuesday, I

13:09

don't recognize you, to be honest.

13:11

Okay. No, which I think is a

13:13

good, I see parts of who I think

13:15

you are, but I don't see

13:17

you, you. The me that

13:19

you know. Yes, exactly.

13:21

Exactly. Who do people

13:23

think you are versus who you are? How far do

13:26

you think those two are from each other? Well,

13:28

they always think I'm going to be funny, which

13:32

I'm not. I mean, I am, but I'm

13:34

not. But you are. But

13:36

you know what I mean. Yeah, okay. Yes. I'm

13:40

sure it's the same for you. People are

13:42

expecting something to

13:44

come from you. I often disappoint people.

13:46

Yes, I do the same. Yes. I

13:49

do the same. I'm actually kind of, I'm

13:51

an observer. I'm listening to those conversations. This is

13:53

what I try to explain to people. If

13:56

you're always performing, when are you absorbing what you're going

13:58

to put into the performance? That's

14:00

exactly right. Okay. Okay,

14:03

I see this. Yes. Yeah, Tuesday was,

14:06

first of all, thank you. Oh,

14:09

wow. I know it's a weird thing to say, but thank you.

14:12

Oh, wow. So, because I watch

14:14

things before the interview, and

14:16

then sometimes they're terrible. Yeah. And

14:19

I don't mean that in like a disparaging, it's

14:21

just like they're terrible. Well, they can't all be good,

14:23

right? Yes, exactly. You know, half

14:25

of my stand-up, I'm sure, is terrible. So, I understand, but

14:28

I don't put it out. But this

14:30

was like, it wasn't just amazing. It

14:32

was also way deeper than I thought it was going to be,

14:35

and I didn't know what to expect. Oh, good. Oh,

14:37

good. I'm not going to lie. So, I watched

14:39

it cold. You had no idea? No idea

14:41

what I was getting into, which is how

14:43

I like to watch movies. Sure, that makes sense. Yeah,

14:46

and then I got into it and I was like,

14:48

is this a horror? Then I was like, no, it's

14:50

not. No, wait, what is happening here? It's

14:52

really disconcerting. Yeah, well,

14:54

I mean, it's, yes, it's a fantasy. It's

14:57

a sort of a fairy tale with

15:00

magical realism, and you go

15:02

on this journey with the sort of three

15:08

main characters, my character Zora,

15:10

my daughter Tuesday, and

15:13

of course, death. I almost don't want to

15:15

spoil it for anybody, but I want to

15:17

talk about the themes and

15:19

the story. I will say things

15:22

that hopefully will make people watch the movie.

15:24

Okay, that's good. But it won't make them

15:26

understand the movie. Okay. We

15:29

won't be able to pick it completely apart

15:31

anyway, because it's sort of multi-leveled, that movie,

15:33

I think. But anyway, I'm so

15:35

curious to know what appealed

15:38

to you or didn't or whatever about the movie. I

15:40

really am. So, the first thing for me

15:42

is, I couldn't

15:44

tell whether or not it was a comedy, which

15:47

I think, I

15:49

genuinely think is one of the best things you

15:52

can create in life is a story where

15:55

people are unable to discern whether or not it

15:57

is or isn't funny, because I think that's what

15:59

life is. depending on how you're looking

16:01

at it all the time. Couldn't agree more. You know, like

16:03

if somebody falls in the street and

16:05

it's like that funny splaying fall, it's

16:07

funny if you're not the person. When

16:10

you're the person, it's not funny until they have a

16:12

little time away from it, then it becomes funny. And

16:14

I feel the same way about like stories and movies

16:16

and things is, depending on what

16:18

moment you're watching it from, you

16:21

go, man, this is funny. No, it's

16:23

not funny. This is very sad. This

16:25

is deep. Right. This is hilarious.

16:28

Yeah, it's got a little bit of everything, but I would

16:30

say it's much more dramatic

16:33

than it is comedic. But by

16:35

the way, completely off subject, but somewhat related.

16:37

Did you, have you ever seen that

16:39

footage on, somewhere

16:41

on the internet where they took like the

16:43

shining and they put a comedy soundtrack to

16:45

it? Yes, I have seen that. Isn't that

16:48

fascinating by the way? Yeah. But

16:50

I talked to, it was Jordan

16:53

Peele about this. And I

16:55

said to him, please don't be offended. Sometimes

16:57

I say things, I understand people might take them wrong. So

16:59

I said, don't be offended. But sometimes

17:02

I watch your movies and I go, this is a very

17:04

funny comedy. And he said, in his

17:07

opinion, all horrors are comedy with

17:10

scary music. Oh. It's

17:12

the same pacing. It's the same rhythm. It's the

17:14

same. Oh, that's fascinating. And so

17:17

I wonder when- I need to work with him. You

17:19

should. I would love to work with him. Yeah.

17:22

When you're reading the script for a movie like Tuesday, are

17:25

you seeing it as something because they've told

17:27

you it's that, or are you going, oh

17:30

no, I can make this what

17:32

I want it to be because I'm going to be in it? Neither.

17:36

I read it cold, so I did not

17:38

know what it was. And

17:42

you can imagine, I was just sort of like blown

17:44

away by

17:47

what was on that page and

17:50

was really quite immediately intrigued,

17:53

but had to

17:55

get some understanding of what the

17:59

writer-director- what her

18:01

vision was here and because there

18:03

is animation in it, I

18:07

wanted to make sure what

18:09

she was thinking about vis-a-vis the animation.

18:11

Because if that animation doesn't work, this

18:13

thing is going to be a piece

18:15

of crap. I didn't even think of

18:17

it as animation now. I know. Although

18:20

it was played by this extraordinary actor

18:22

named Arinze Kenne, who is

18:24

this great British actor and he

18:26

was with us

18:28

the entire time. He is a

18:31

cast member in the movie and then

18:33

they animated over him. So we were

18:35

playing scenes with him. Okay. So I

18:37

thought it was a parrot, but then

18:39

I was told it's a macaw. It's

18:41

a macaw, whatever. But it's a exaggerated

18:43

version of a macaw. It's

18:46

a fantastical version because macaws don't

18:48

really look like that. They're not

18:50

that color, they're not blabble. Of

18:52

course, he morphs throughout the movie

18:54

size and color-wise. It's very

18:56

disconcerting. It is in fact, because

18:58

in the beginning of the film,

19:01

my character is completely in denial

19:03

about what is happening in her

19:05

life, and more importantly, what's happening

19:07

with her daughter, and is making

19:10

very, very

19:12

bad decisions because of that denial. Right.

19:14

Denial is not a great response

19:17

most of the time.

19:20

Yet it seems like the most natural one.

19:23

Yes, exactly. I think we all do it to

19:25

a certain extent. I think

19:27

it would be weird if we didn't. Yeah.

19:30

But you know what else is weird? We're all going...

19:32

I mean, this movie, it's

19:35

a conversation starter, I

19:37

suppose, about death and dying and afterlife

19:39

and all of that. And it is

19:42

extraordinary to consider that we're all going

19:44

to die, and we don't really

19:46

think about it too much. But it's funny to think that

19:48

all the people in this room, we're all going

19:51

to be dead one day. You hear that, folks? Weird.

19:53

We're all going to be dead. Did I freak you

19:55

out? That's what I loved

19:57

about the movie, was you were playing in my... opinion

20:00

everybody's idea of who should and shouldn't

20:02

die. Mmm, mmm,

20:04

mmm, mmm, okay. Like

20:07

you represented the idea that

20:09

we all have of who, like

20:11

we all think we know who should

20:13

and shouldn't die and when they should and shouldn't die. Yeah,

20:16

I'm negotiating with death. Yes. Yeah.

20:20

I have a friend who always says, you don't know that you're gonna die. He

20:24

has this theory and I actually believe him, he goes, we

20:26

all do not know that we're gonna die. We

20:29

think like we, as a theoretical idea,

20:32

we understand that death is the conclusion of life. Yes.

20:36

But he argues, and I felt it in this film

20:38

in a way, he argues that nobody knows that they're

20:40

gonna die. Like

20:42

we, I know it seems like it's... Well, would he

20:45

agree that your body will stop working at some point?

20:47

No, no, no, he says, but he just says as

20:49

people... Because if that's not the case, your friend needs

20:51

some major help. No, no, no. This

20:54

is what he said for me tied into the film

20:56

because every day

20:59

people are dying. Yes. Right?

21:02

I would argue that most people are shocked when they

21:04

die. Shocked or, and the people around them are shocked.

21:06

Yes, but, and that's what he's saying is because nobody

21:09

knows, like nobody, it's like we don't know that

21:11

it'll happen. We don't believe that it'll happen. We're

21:13

told it like a theoretical thing. That's right. And everyone

21:15

goes, yes, of course death is, yes, of course. And

21:17

then it's like, wait, me? Totally.

21:20

My family? Exactly. Isn't

21:23

that amazing? Isn't that amazing

21:25

to think about? Yeah. Yeah,

21:28

it really is. Me? No,

21:31

no, no, you mean them over here. Not,

21:33

no, no, no, not me. We're

21:36

going to continue this conversation right after this

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Lowe's. Okay,

23:14

so this is what I wanted to

23:16

ask you about comedy wise.

23:20

I'm fascinated by physical comedy. It's

23:24

really fun, isn't it? It

23:26

is both the lowest form of comedy and

23:28

simultaneously the highest. Yes, yes. And

23:31

so I wanted to know from you, like

23:34

how are you thinking of physical comedy in a

23:36

movie about death that's really sad, but you're still

23:38

doing something really funny, but it's not the same

23:40

way you would do the funny as Elaine. Like,

23:43

okay, like the scene, for instance, where you

23:45

grow to the size of the room, it's

23:48

very funny. You think? You

23:50

didn't think it was funny? No,

23:53

I didn't think of it as being funny, but I'm

23:55

delighted you did. It's fine. Oh, damn. I

23:58

might have that comedian brain thing where I laugh at the wrong thing. things.

24:01

It's okay. You're the winner.

24:03

You laughed. Well, I didn't laugh. I thought it

24:05

was funny. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. It

24:08

didn't make me laugh, but I

24:10

went, this is a funny... It's weird. I would

24:12

say it's weird. Yes. It's

24:14

weird. But that's different than physical

24:16

comedy, I think. In

24:18

my view. Well, but you're the expert. I would

24:20

defer to you. Well, I mean, when you

24:23

say physical comedy, I'm thinking of using your

24:25

body physically to get the

24:27

laugh, to enhance a joke,

24:30

as opposed to, in this film, there's

24:32

all this crazy physical stuff that happens,

24:34

but it wasn't

24:36

in service of a joke

24:39

necessarily. Does that make sense? That

24:41

makes complete sense. Okay. And so

24:43

the way I interpret physical comedy as I go, how

24:45

does somebody do something with their body

24:48

that can make you laugh whether or not the...

24:51

That's why I talk about falling. Yeah, falling is

24:53

great. I think falling is the

24:55

best physical comedy, but

24:57

no one who's falling intends for you to laugh. It

25:00

is not punctuating a joke. They're walking, and

25:02

then there's a joke at the end of it. But there was

25:04

not a joke. No one wrote a joke. Yeah, right. Walking,

25:07

walking, walking, no more walking.

25:09

There was a scene that we did on

25:12

Veep. It

25:14

was in the last season, and we are...

25:17

I think it's the

25:19

convention. Maybe it's the final

25:21

episode. I don't really remember. Anyway, in

25:23

which my characters... I

25:27

can't even talk about it. It still makes

25:30

me laugh. My character's having a really bad

25:32

time per usual. Nothing's quite going

25:34

her way, and she's flipping out. And

25:36

I'm sitting at a couch, and Tony

25:38

Hale, who plays my beloved,

25:42

or would like to think he's beloved, assistant, comes

25:44

up to me and he says, and I'm out

25:46

of my mind, and he comes up to me

25:48

and he goes, do

25:50

you want six almonds? Sort

25:53

of a nod to... To the Obama or

25:55

Almond story. Yes, which was seven almonds for

25:57

him. And so he goes, do you want six? six

26:00

almonds. And

26:02

this is physical comedy that I thought

26:05

really helped that joke

26:07

because it was written, do you want six almonds?

26:10

But then what happened was Tony comes up

26:12

sort of behind the couch and into

26:15

my ear and I turn and I

26:17

scream at him, full-pitched scream in his

26:19

ear, no, I'm telling you this now,

26:21

it's not funny in the telling, but

26:24

it's a huge scream at him and

26:27

he fell

26:29

backwards behind the couch.

26:31

And I honestly, to this day, as you

26:33

can tell, I think it's one of the

26:35

funniest things I have ever been a part

26:37

of. His fall, and it made me think

26:39

of it because it was a fall, because

26:41

he also falls out of frame, which

26:44

is, it doesn't get better than that, falling out

26:46

of frame. Was it planned? Oh, we planned it

26:48

in rehearsal. So in other words, it was written, do

26:51

you want six almonds? Selena screams no, but

26:53

then I had this idea. Well, how about

26:55

he comes over, he whispers it and we

26:57

do it in such a way so that

26:59

my no knocks him out. And

27:01

I mean, it was very, it was very text

27:03

Avery cartoon-like, but it was, but in the scene

27:06

itself, it seemed to make sense. Anyway, watch it.

27:08

You'll see what I mean. This

27:10

is what I'm now understanding. What I

27:12

find funny oftentimes in life is

27:15

not the intention of the person. It's

27:18

not the, whether the thing will or won't be a joke. And

27:20

it's whether they said it's how

27:22

ludicrous the action is. Yeah.

27:24

And how it, yeah. Like when you

27:27

literally, when you eat the head of

27:29

a fully charred creature thing,

27:32

it is, it's so like, and there's a, there's a thing you

27:34

do with your eyes, which is like, it's almost like you're thinking

27:37

like this is, this is, but you know what it's done. It's

27:39

done. I've done what needs to be,

27:41

and you even pause while chewing it.

27:44

There's like a mid chew pause and

27:46

then more chewing. And

27:48

that's what I don't know. That's what I find funny. I think it's,

27:51

yeah, that, I guess that is funny. I mean,

27:53

I think in the theater, people laugh

27:55

or they're like, Oh Jesus. You

27:57

know, I mean, it's, it's also, I guess

27:59

just. I don't know. Yes. Yeah, I think

28:01

that's that's that's a great story. That's a

28:04

great performance That's I'm humbly saying as an

28:06

audience member, please. I'm not a director. I

28:08

would shout action at the wrong times So

28:11

I don't think you strike me as a clever

28:13

person. I Couldn't

28:15

help find myself wondering when I

28:17

was watching the story about Tuesday. I couldn't help wondering

28:22

how much of it You

28:24

drew from your from your life or how much

28:27

of it like reminded you of your life, you

28:29

know You you shared

28:32

You know your story of like the pain of loss

28:34

in your life, you know losing your dad for instance

28:36

Yes and and just like how much

28:38

he meant to you his love of poetry and and

28:40

you know the way he connected with you as a

28:42

human being and shaped you into who we see you

28:44

as today and You

28:47

know you you've shared your journey for instance

28:49

diagnosed with cancer and how that affected you

28:51

etc. When you're watching the movie Tuesday,

28:53

I Feel

28:55

like everyone Can and

28:57

will connect with it because everyone

29:00

has or will deal with loss and

29:03

grief in some way shape or form and

29:06

I wondered when when you would like when

29:08

you were doing that was was there a part of you that

29:10

was either

29:12

remembering or processing or feeling

29:14

or You know

29:16

did connect with you in a way that went just

29:19

beyond the story. Oh without

29:21

question the entire movie I

29:24

tapped into my experience As

29:27

someone who is I've lost

29:29

a number of people who are very close

29:31

to me. I Certainly

29:34

tapped into that. I tapped

29:37

into the ferocity that I feel as

29:39

a mother And

29:41

my bond with my

29:44

children. Yes, I would fight death

29:47

To save my child's life. I would fight death. I

29:50

wouldn't even hesitate so I

29:52

tapped into all of that stuff all of it and

29:54

to Because

29:57

that's your job as a an

30:00

actor, you have to bring honesty. So

30:02

that's what I did. It was not easy. How

30:07

do you move on after loss? Well,

30:13

in my experience anyway, and

30:19

people suffer all kinds of different

30:21

loss, of course, but

30:23

in my experience, it

30:26

obviously it takes time and then

30:31

something that sort of helped me and I've found

30:33

it to be the case is

30:36

that it's not like the

30:38

relationship with the person that

30:40

you've lost has ended, it's

30:42

just shifted. So for

30:45

example, you mentioned my father. So I

30:48

think of my father all the time. I

30:50

feel as if I still have a relationship with

30:53

him and it's maybe

30:55

more of a mysterious

30:57

spiritual relationship, but he's very

31:00

much in my being. And

31:04

so it's a shift. It's

31:07

a shift. What about you? Have you had a

31:09

lot of loss? The only loss

31:11

I've experienced in my

31:13

life, I think is my grandmother. I remember

31:16

thinking about this. When it happened, I didn't

31:18

realize that I'd never experienced grief until that

31:20

moment. Were you with her when she passed? No,

31:22

no, I wasn't. But I remember when my grand passed,

31:25

it was almost

31:27

like there was a door inside my chest that had

31:29

never been opened and all of a

31:32

sudden somebody opened it. And I was

31:34

feeling something that I couldn't, it's

31:37

like a color on a wheel that doesn't have

31:39

a name or label attached to it. So you

31:41

go, it is neither sadness

31:44

nor is it joy, but

31:47

it feels like both at the same time. I

31:50

can't explain it. I found myself

31:53

crying, but also smiling,

31:55

you know, because I was like, I don't

31:58

know. It was like every memory of her. every

32:00

moment when I would walk into a room and she would

32:02

smile at me, every dish she

32:04

would cook for me, every... It

32:07

felt like her life was playing again

32:09

in my head, and

32:12

I was celebrating that with tears. It

32:14

was a very, very strange feeling.

32:18

You still think of her a lot? Oh yeah, yeah,

32:20

all the time. Whenever I'm feeling... Lost

32:25

is the wrong word, but whenever I'm

32:27

feeling a little un-moured, there's just moments where

32:29

I go, go to a mirror and look at yourself the way

32:31

your grandmother looked at you. Oh, that's very

32:34

moving. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

32:36

Because I feel like

32:38

that's oftentimes what it is. Going

32:43

back to the film, funny enough, I think sometimes

32:45

what we're not trying to lose

32:48

is not the other person per se, but

32:52

it's what the other person holds of us

32:54

in them. Yeah,

32:58

totally, 100%. And

33:01

that's something that I loved in

33:03

the way you were portraying this mom. At

33:06

the beginning, she seems overwhelmed, overworked, doesn't

33:08

have time for it all. It's... Can't

33:11

even have the conversation. You're like, when your daughter in

33:13

the movie says, can we speak and she's

33:15

like, let's speak tomorrow. And then it's

33:18

amazing to see that shift. When

33:21

we... Going back to we know we're gonna die,

33:23

or we know somebody's gonna go, it's

33:26

like, oh, actually I do have the time.

33:28

Actually, I should make the time because I'm

33:30

not just losing you, I'm losing a piece of me that is in

33:32

you. And so that

33:35

was... Yeah, that's why I say thank you. Because I...

33:37

I mean, I clearly laughed

33:39

at moments where it wasn't funny. I

33:41

still say thank you though. Don't

33:44

go anywhere because we got more What Now after

33:47

this. No,

40:00

I really loved your answer because maybe

40:03

because I agree with it. It'd be funny if I like, I loved

40:05

it and I think it's wrong. But I know

40:08

I loved it because I agree with it. I loved it.

40:10

You're full of bullshit. Yeah. I love

40:12

the fact that you said there is

40:14

nothing wrong with being sensitive to

40:17

how comedy is or isn't affecting

40:19

people. Right. Right. And I also

40:22

agreed with the sentiment that it's not like you

40:24

can't make the jokes. People

40:27

are making jokes. People are continuing to

40:29

make jokes. Yes. It's

40:31

continuing. Nobody's, we're

40:33

not being hamstrung. And

40:36

I'm in big favor of being,

40:40

of evolving.

40:43

Think of what entertainment was 50 or 60 years ago. Yeah.

40:46

I defy you to look at that. We

40:49

have evolved from then. And I

40:52

think we must continue to evolve. Yeah.

40:55

Yeah, I completely agree. Yeah. I

40:57

also don't think there's anything wrong in

40:59

accepting that evolution does not necessarily

41:02

mean that the past was bad.

41:04

I think sometimes we're unfair

41:06

to ourselves as people. And I go,

41:08

especially as a comedian, I'm like, comedy

41:11

is going to evolve. Society evolves. Like

41:13

there are things that society, you know,

41:15

used to deem very acceptable that it

41:17

doesn't anymore. Like right now, we could

41:19

be doing things in comedy or in

41:21

conversations that people think are cool

41:24

today. And then in 20 years, they'll

41:26

be like, oh, we might even go, huh, I can't

41:28

believe I spoke like that. Oh, I can't. Yes, I

41:30

can't believe I said that. I hadn't

41:32

realized. I hadn't realized. I wasn't

41:34

looking at it through that lens.

41:37

Yes. There's more

41:39

to understand. There's a lot we don't

41:41

understand. That's true. I

41:43

do also wonder, maybe you think about

41:45

this. Do you ever think about how

41:49

we find the balance between caring

41:51

what everybody thinks about everything we

41:53

create, and also creating

41:56

because we think something is worth creating?

41:59

Yeah. Yeah, I

42:01

do. That balance is, that's the balance right there.

42:06

Because if you start to care too much

42:08

about how it's

42:10

received, you will

42:13

be paralyzed by that. So

42:15

it has to come from within about

42:17

what appeals to you. You

42:20

come at it from that. And if

42:22

it lands, fabulous. But

42:24

if it doesn't, well, at least you're true to yourself.

42:26

So you can walk away with your head high. That's

42:28

what I think. So here's

42:30

what I think. I always think it's about acknowledging

42:32

the possibility that you might share the world with

42:34

somebody else, but

42:37

then still moving forward with what's

42:39

true to you. Yeah. So

42:41

it's like, I try and do comedy the way

42:43

I drive, like when I'm on the road. I

42:46

drive because I'm trying to get somewhere

42:49

and I'll change lanes when I

42:51

feel it's appropriate, but I acknowledge that

42:53

there may be other people using the road. So

42:55

I am amazed that you've brought this up

42:58

because I have often thought

43:01

that if government and people

43:04

in societies, let's

43:07

see, I'm gonna articulate this just right. I

43:12

wish very much that politics could work

43:14

exactly as you say. Because

43:17

in other

43:19

words, you

43:21

wanna get ahead of the car in front

43:23

of you. Okay, that's fine. But you're

43:25

not gonna do it so that you, unless you're

43:27

out of your mind, you're not gonna do

43:29

it so you're gonna drive that other car off the

43:32

road, right? So there are

43:34

parameters of respect

43:38

that are built in

43:40

and self preservation. We

43:45

all wanna get somewhere quickly, I

43:48

assume. But there is an

43:50

understanding that we're all doing it at once

43:52

and there has to be understood. Anyway,

43:55

I don't know. I sounds maybe silly, but that

43:57

made me think. No, I love that. I think

43:59

it's because Because here's what I, I

44:01

mean, I could be wrong. I think what's happened

44:04

in the world is we are, in

44:07

many ways we've become so insulated from each other

44:09

that we no longer believe that other people

44:12

are actually moving in a direction that is

44:14

similar to us. There was something that we

44:17

should never take for granted about everyone watching the

44:19

same show, even if you didn't like it, but

44:22

having a similar point of reference about what reality is

44:24

and where you wanna go and how you see other

44:26

people. And I think politics is the same

44:28

now. We

44:30

now exist in a space where people go, it's

44:33

me and it's you, and you not

44:35

trying to do the same thing. I don't even

44:37

think your kids are real human beings. Are they

44:39

kids? It's me or you. Yes, exactly, zero sum.

44:42

And I feel like going back to the beginning of

44:44

this, like with comedy, I don't think comedy

44:46

is a zero sum game. I think

44:48

it is possible to laugh with and at people with

44:51

them knowing that it is, like

44:53

they're doing it with you as well. Does that make sense?

44:55

Totally, and to that

44:57

point. So I had the great

45:00

opportunity, honor, to meet Supreme

45:02

Court Justice Elena Kagan. Oh,

45:04

wow. This was a number of years ago. This was back

45:06

when Veep was on the air. And

45:09

she told me that she and

45:11

Justice Scalia, who

45:15

was alive obviously at that time, they

45:17

would get together weekly and talk about

45:20

the show. No way. Swear. And

45:22

they would talk about the show and what they

45:24

loved and blah, blah, blah, and laugh about the

45:26

episode. And that was

45:30

a dream. That is a dream to me.

45:33

That is a dream to me. I'm pretty almost 100%

45:35

sure. Nothing about any decisions

45:37

Scalia ever made lines

45:39

up with how I think. However, the fact

45:41

that he was able to enjoy it and

45:44

they were both able to laugh at it.

45:46

That is magic. That's magic. It is, it's

45:48

magic. That is magic. That's magic. Yeah,

45:51

so there you go. Mm-hmm. All

45:54

right. There's

45:56

a question I ask everybody on the podcast. Okay.

46:00

because of the name of the podcast, What Now? And

46:02

everyone has a different What Now for me. After

46:05

speaking to you, I feel like the What Now question for

46:07

me is more like, what

46:09

now, as you go into this

46:12

stage of life, if we

46:14

wanna call it that? Because it feels

46:17

like now you're in a different

46:19

movie vibe, but also like a different

46:21

person vibe. Is there a What Now for you?

46:23

Where do we find you and what is the

46:25

now that you're moving on to? Oh,

46:29

well, I feel like I'm just starting. So

46:31

I feel like I'm just, like I've got a

46:33

lot more to get done. In

46:36

life? Yeah, yeah,

46:38

I do. I feel like I'm still going. Like,

46:40

well, I am still going, but what I mean is that there's

46:43

a lot more that I would like to

46:45

be able to chew on. Oh. Sink my teeth

46:48

into. Do you know what it is or? No,

46:50

but I just feel that way.

46:53

That's a great way to be. I'd like to

46:55

do a musical on film. Yeah,

46:57

that would be really fun. I

47:01

like this for you. I also ask you because

47:03

I've noticed in a bunch of your interviews, people, you'll say something

47:05

like this and then it happens. I don't know if you've noticed

47:07

that about yourself. No, I haven't. Someone asked you if you'd ever

47:09

do a Marvel movie and then you were like, yeah, I'll do

47:11

it pew pew. And then you were in one pew pew. Yeah,

47:16

and I just wrapped like a

47:18

week ago. So this could

47:20

be. Pew pew pew pew. That's

47:22

the movie, guys. I just gave it away. Spoiler

47:25

alert. Spoiler alert. But

47:28

this has been fun. Really fun.

47:30

I mean, it's really nice to just have

47:32

a conversation and talk, yeah. Well, that's what

47:34

I've selfishly always wanted to do with you.

47:38

I think your brain is

47:40

probably one of the most powerful

47:42

and interesting brains. And

47:45

because it's like society, it's not acceptable to

47:47

like take brains out

47:49

of heads. And I like to then speak to

47:51

the person who has the brain

47:53

in them and try and understand a little

47:55

bit of the magic that it contains. Do

47:58

you want me to like when I die? Do you want my brain?