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15% with promo code BV15. Hello

1:21

and welcome back to another episode

1:23

of What Went Wrong. Your favorite

1:25

podcast, Full Stop, that just so

1:27

happens to be about movies, and

1:29

how it is nearly impossible to

1:31

make them, let alone a good

1:33

one, let alone a testosterone-driven sci-fi

1:35

action romp through the jungles of

1:37

South America. As always, I'm your

1:39

host, Chris Winnerbower. However, my steadfast

1:41

co-host, Lizzy Bassett, is on maternity

1:43

leave this week, so we are

1:45

joined by a special guest. Dan Murl

1:48

is a movie critic and fan

1:50

who racked up four Emmy nominations

1:52

as a writer and producer at

1:54

Screen Junkies. You may have seen

1:56

him on movie fights, Screen Junkies

1:58

News, or as the former champion

2:00

of the movie. trivia schmowdown. Since

2:02

2020 he's run his own YouTube

2:04

channel called Dan Murle Movies where

2:06

you can find him reviewing the

2:09

latest releases covering the box office

2:11

on charts with Dan and talking

2:13

about the latest movie news. Dan, thank

2:15

you for joining us and welcome to

2:17

the show. It is my pleasure. It's always

2:20

a pleasure to talk movies but

2:22

it's a particular pleasure to talk

2:24

this movie. Well on that note

2:26

we are discussing predator. a seminal

2:28

science fiction action film. I'm assuming

2:30

you've seen it before. Yes, only

2:32

about 15 or 20 times. Okay,

2:34

got it. So tell me a

2:36

little bit. When did you first see

2:38

Predator and what were your thoughts upon

2:41

your most recent rewatch of Predator? I

2:43

have an interesting relationship with especially R-rated

2:45

movies from the 80s because I couldn't

2:48

watch R-rated movies when I was growing

2:50

up. So there's a whole raft of

2:52

movies like Robocop and Predator that people

2:54

grew up with that are my age,

2:57

which is ancient to many people at

2:59

this point, but that were like 80s

3:01

staples. And I mean, these are all

3:04

movies that had toys and kids, my

3:06

friends watched all these movies. I didn't

3:08

see them until I was well into my

3:10

teens, sometimes into my 20s. But I kind

3:13

of like that because... I can approach the

3:15

movies for the first time and not worry

3:17

about like, was it really that good or

3:20

was it just because I saw it when

3:22

I was a kid? A predator is a

3:24

movie that I saw, I think probably the

3:26

first time, I'm gonna date myself

3:28

here on VHS sometime in high school and

3:31

I liked it. I thought it was

3:33

a fun movie, but it's one of

3:35

those films that I've sort of grown

3:37

to like even more over time because

3:39

there's just something about it

3:41

that... You can't even really quite put

3:43

your finger on it, but it just kind

3:46

of bottles. Like, it's like, it's like

3:48

extract of action movies in the 80s.

3:50

And I think as time goes on,

3:52

there's almost like the sentimental attachment that

3:54

grows to it because, you know, they

3:56

always say, well, they don't make them

3:58

like that anymore. They literally don't make

4:01

him like predator anymore. Like even

4:03

movies that try to do the

4:05

80s action thing, they still don't make

4:07

him like that. Absolutely not. And maybe for

4:09

good reason, as we'll learn, this was a

4:12

very difficult production. I agree. I think this

4:14

movie has aged like fine wine or Arnold's

4:16

sweat in a bottle. It was, I saw

4:19

it. On VHS, I was much younger. I

4:21

think it was about 9 or 10. My

4:23

dad, just the minute I turn 9 or

4:25

10, it just was like, all right, Predator,

4:28

Alien, let's go. I mean, listen, he knows

4:30

that the classics are. He does. For me,

4:32

it was when I was younger, it was

4:34

kind of the also ran 80s action

4:37

alien movie behind the thing and

4:39

aliens. Those felt a little more

4:41

obviously ambiguous at the beginning. Are

4:44

these the good guys, you know,

4:46

as Jesse Venturaurous? Spouting nonsense. But

4:48

as you mentioned, it's a fantastic

4:50

time capsule of 80s machismo. I

4:52

think it really does a interesting

4:54

thing where it riffs on Schwarzenegger's

4:56

established screen identity at the time.

4:58

Like he's right between commando and

5:00

sort of more serious roles. It

5:02

has some really cool innovative creature

5:04

effects and visual effects that we'll

5:06

discuss. But of course, before we

5:08

dive in, the details. Predator is

5:11

a 1987 science fiction military

5:13

action film written by Jim

5:15

and John Thomas and directed

5:17

by John McTernan produced by

5:19

Lawrence Gordon, Joe Silver, John

5:21

Davis distributed by 20th century

5:23

Fox. It stars Arnold Schwarzenegger,

5:26

Carl Weathers, Jesse Ventura, Shane

5:28

Black, Bill, Duke, Elpedia, Carrillo,

5:30

Sunny Landam, Argy Armstrong, and Kevin

5:32

Peter Hall and Peter Cullen as

5:34

the Predator. As always, the IMDB logline

5:37

for the film reads, a team

5:39

of commandos on a mission in

5:41

a Central American jungle find themselves

5:43

hunted by an extraterrestrial warrior. And

5:45

that is the entire plot. There's not a

5:47

lot else there. No, that's it. You don't

5:49

need much more either, I would argue. No,

5:52

you don't. Some of my favorite sources for

5:54

this episode include, but are not limited

5:56

to, guns and shay butter, an oral

5:58

history of predator from the holly... reporter.

6:00

If it bleeds we can kill

6:02

it, the Making of Predator, a

6:05

very fun documentary from 2001, The

6:07

Last Action Heroes, the Triumph Flops

6:09

and Fudes of Hollywood's Kings of

6:12

Carnage, Nick to Semline, which we've

6:14

discussed before, and more. Now of

6:17

course Dan Predator spawned a franchise.

6:19

Many video games, I played a

6:21

number of them. Crossovers with the

6:24

alien universe, unfortunately, including maybe my

6:26

least favorite movie ever. Dreadful. I

6:28

don't like dumping on movies. That

6:30

movie really bothered me when I

6:32

watched it. It's so mean-spirited. It

6:34

produced one of Arnold's most memorable

6:36

lines. Get to the chopper! As

6:39

I love to yell at my

6:41

wife when we're late. But much

6:43

like Dutch's mission, the production of

6:45

Predator quickly spiraled out of control

6:47

as the production team found itself

6:49

dogged at every turn by the

6:51

problems with their titular character. A

6:53

hostile environment and perhaps their own

6:56

substance enhanced egos. All right Dan,

6:58

Dan, let's go back to the beginning.

7:00

Do you know anything about how Predator

7:02

was conceived? I don't, you know, for,

7:04

I think because it's just so

7:07

wonderful in its simplicities, I've never

7:09

done a huge deep dive on

7:11

Predator. So, you know, I know

7:13

the basic big thing about Predator

7:15

that everybody knows about the original

7:18

Predator, but I actually don't have

7:20

a huge wealth of knowledge. Fantastic

7:22

as to the deep background, so

7:24

I'm excited to learn here today

7:26

too. All right, well, like so many

7:28

films that we cover on this

7:31

podcast, Predator was conceived as a

7:33

means of escape. Bakersfield-born brothers Jim

7:35

and John Thomas had hopped from

7:37

dead-end job to dead-end job. They'd

7:39

been lifeguards, disc diggers, carpenters, teachers.

7:42

Nothing had stuck, not that there's

7:44

anything wrong with those careers, but

7:46

they had not found what they

7:48

wanted to do yet. But they

7:50

both dabbled in writing. And Jim in

7:52

particular had tried his hand at screenwriting and when he

7:55

got stuck he asked his brother to help and they

7:57

found that they were a pretty good team. So they

7:59

decided to write a... spec script together and

8:01

break out of the world of lifeguarding.

8:03

They were actually a lifeguarding in Marina

8:06

Del Ray on the beach at the

8:08

time. Interesting. Yeah, so down just south

8:10

of Hollywood, they had a bit of

8:12

downtime. John had heard his back jumping

8:15

from his tower, so they set up

8:17

an umbrella on the beach on the

8:19

beach in Marina Del Ray together over

8:22

a period of six months. That's the

8:24

most LA story I've ever heard of.

8:26

Absolutely. Just people are drowning and they're

8:29

writing Predator on the beach. Yeah. I

8:31

mean, the concept of the movie is

8:33

basically that conversation you have with your

8:36

high school friends, which is, could an

8:38

elite group of soldiers kill X? And

8:40

just fill it in. It could be

8:43

samurai. I don't know if you've seen

8:45

the gorge on Apple TV. It's wild.

8:47

I've heard some good things about it.

8:50

It's actually pretty fun. But. The original

8:52

conceit, as Jim said, was what would

8:54

it be like to be hunted by

8:57

a dilatont hunter from another planet the

8:59

way we hunt big game in Africa?

9:01

I love applying the word dilatont in

9:04

that sentence to the predator, because when

9:06

I think of dilatont, I don't think

9:08

of the predator. Right. I think the

9:11

original conceit was more, what would it

9:13

be like if an alien rich dentist

9:15

who happens to like hunting, hunted you,

9:18

and I think originally the idea was

9:20

that no one was going to be

9:22

a soldier was going to be a

9:25

soldier? Right we get eventually to everybody

9:27

as a soldier right in the end

9:29

But I think the at the beginning

9:32

it really feels like more of a

9:34

horror film. Oh my god. I'm no

9:36

longer at the top of the food

9:39

chain Something else is following me through

9:41

the forest or the jungle or the

9:43

woods that makes sense because I would

9:45

say that predators horror adjacent I agree

9:48

I There's some tension between McTernon and

9:50

Silver around the tone of the film.

9:52

I definitely think it's horror adjacent. I

9:55

think some entries lean more into horror.

9:57

But, and I think the first act

9:59

of the movie, it's definitely an action

10:02

film. And it transitions more into horror,

10:04

like more of a slasher film. Yes.

10:06

So the Thomas Brothers smartly worked to

10:09

keep it simple. Initially there was a

10:11

brotherhood of alien hunters. That was whittled

10:13

down to one. So obviously that comes

10:16

into play later with Predator 2 and

10:18

then one of my favorites actually Predators

10:20

Robert Rodriguez. The Hunted would become a

10:23

highly trained soldier. So again, riffing on

10:25

the most dangerous game and they set

10:27

the film in Central America because the

10:30

US was toppling governments there left and

10:32

right so they figured a commando could

10:34

get lost somewhere in Central America. Now

10:37

it should be said that early drafts

10:39

focused more on the concept of hunting

10:41

and its rules and etiquette. So the

10:44

use of stealth, camouflage, not hunting females,

10:46

mimicry. As John said, a lot of

10:48

those ideas were not prominent in the

10:51

final version of the film, but quote,

10:53

the first draft of the script was

10:55

really the essence of a hunting story,

10:58

although much of that doesn't really come

11:00

across in the first movie. Now, the

11:02

first draft that we were able to

11:05

find was dated July 27, 1985. Still

11:07

under the title, Hunter. The predator title

11:09

had not yet been swapped in. So

11:11

it includes a preface that makes two

11:14

important points. The predator has two specific

11:16

qualities, Dan. Could you guess what they

11:18

are that require technical innovation from the

11:21

filmmaking team? Oh, well, he is invisible

11:23

or can become invisible, obviously. Active camouflage,

11:25

as it becomes known. Would it be

11:28

infrared vision? Exactly. So heat vision or

11:30

thermal imaging. So on the front page,

11:32

before the screenplay starts, it says the

11:35

predator possesses the ability to completely camouflage

11:37

and he detects prey from the heat

11:39

emitted from their bodies. I think those

11:42

are the two original conceits of this

11:44

somewhat derivative story that the brothers had

11:46

come up with. I agree. Without that,

11:49

it loses some of its appeal. Yeah.

11:51

So they send it out all across

11:53

Hollywood and everybody's rejecting it. And a

11:56

part of me wondered, I'm sure you're

11:58

familiar with enemy mine, the Dennis Quade.

12:00

Lewis Gossip Jr. alien movie from the

12:03

time? Mm-hmm. Yes. It's also like Man

12:05

vs. Alien, and it hadn't performed very

12:07

well the Wolfgang Peterson movie. So part

12:10

of me wonder is like, yeah, we've

12:12

kind of seen this, it didn't really

12:14

work, you know what I mean? All

12:17

it takes is one bad comp in

12:19

Hollywood for a project to just go

12:21

the way of the dodo. If there's

12:24

one thing that has not changed in

12:26

Hollywood over the century plus of making

12:28

movies, it's that the number one priority

12:31

of almost every executive is not to

12:33

get fired. Tons of rejections, and there's

12:35

one long shot connection they have. So

12:37

Jim at the time had worked on

12:40

some sets in lower level positions, like

12:42

PA, working for grip and electric, and

12:44

he had a friend who was a

12:47

cinematographer, who had a friend, who had

12:49

a friend, who had a friend who

12:51

had a friend, who had a friend

12:54

who was, quote, bottom feeder to the

12:56

Hollywood scene. This guy's one claim to

12:58

fame was that he'd sold his student

13:01

film of riots in South Central Los

13:03

Angeles to the FBI to identify the

13:05

rioters. Oh, okay. It wasn't really encouraging

13:08

for what we were going to do,

13:10

end quote. But they had no other

13:12

options. So they took the meeting. The

13:15

script reader at Fox who liked it.

13:17

So they're on their way. You never

13:19

know. The stars will align in such

13:22

a way. And a line they did,

13:24

because Hollywood studios are about as stable

13:26

as governments being toppled by US intelligence

13:29

in the 1980s. And so despite the

13:31

success of Star Wars, 20th Century Fox

13:33

was by the mid-80s, one of the

13:36

weakest studios. So Paramount was kind of

13:38

on top. In 1984, Paramount had five

13:40

of the top 10 box office spots

13:43

for the year. Indiana Jones in the

13:45

Temple of Doom was their highest range

13:47

film. Yeah, 20th Century Fox had won.

13:50

The number 10 spot. Any guesses any

13:52

guesses? Oh man, I'm going to buy

13:54

box office Rolex 1984, 20th century Fox.

13:57

Douglas. Michael Douglas. Well, it was a

13:59

fit, it was a little checkster's a

14:01

Paramount film, wasn't it? I don't think

14:04

it was, it was like 87. Was

14:06

it romancing the stone? Bingo, you nailed

14:08

it, romancing the stone. A film I

14:10

quite like. So in September of 1984,

14:13

the studio shakes things up, Barry Diller,

14:15

Chairman and CEO of Paramount, comes in

14:17

to replace Alan Hirsch as the chairman

14:20

and CEO of Fox. He brings with

14:22

him or... is joined by prolific producer

14:24

Lawrence Gordon, who I'm sure you're aware

14:27

of and our audience has heard of

14:29

on our Water World episode and many

14:31

many others. He comes on as president

14:34

and COO of 20th Century Fox's new

14:36

entertainment group. Of course, when they come

14:38

in with a new regime, it's like

14:41

new mandate, all the old stuffs out,

14:43

we got to bring in all of

14:45

our new stuff. So in a way,

14:48

you'd think the project's dead, right, because

14:50

it's tainted by the old regime. Lawrence

14:52

Gordon was a former Roger Corman protégé,

14:55

and he had found his bread and

14:57

butter producing action films alongside Joel Silver.

14:59

Now, the new regime comes in, and

15:02

the script reader that's leaving does our

15:04

team a huge solid, and I tried

15:06

to find her name, and I cannot

15:09

find it, but if you are out

15:11

there, whoever you are, please come forward.

15:13

She put a sticky note on the

15:16

script and left it on her desk,

15:18

and it just said, read this. And

15:20

then she left. And the next exact

15:23

that comes in, a junior exact, fresh

15:25

out of Brown University, Michael Levy, reads

15:27

the script based on a sticky note,

15:30

likes it, sends it up the chain,

15:32

and Lawrence Gordon, who has a soft

15:34

spot for good sci-fi monster B movies,

15:36

says, all right, I'm into this. Let's

15:39

check it out. I mean, Roger Corman,

15:41

to be fair. Roger Corman would have

15:43

made an invisible monster movie just because

15:46

it was cheap. Exactly. So I can

15:48

see the appeal. Yeah, he's like great.

15:50

And we don't see it until the

15:53

last five minutes, right? Okay, perfect. Like,

15:55

perfect. Exactly. Now, there's another assist that

15:57

the script got, which is there was

16:00

a middle executive. between Michael Levy and

16:02

Lawrence Gordon named John Davis. And you

16:04

might be wondering, like, what did John

16:07

Davis do aside from hand the script

16:09

from one person to another? But John

16:11

Davis' dad was Marvin Davis, billionaire owner

16:14

of 20th Century Fox at the time.

16:16

So we had a little Nepo baby

16:18

action that may or may not have

16:21

helped the movie, because John Davis was

16:23

a fan. So, who knows? Nephitism can

16:25

work for good, guys. That's all I'm

16:28

saying. Every element of Hollywood is in

16:30

this story so far. I love it.

16:32

I know, absolutely. Well, and it's, you're

16:35

about to get even more. So they've

16:37

got the perfect director from the movie.

16:39

The Stephen Spielberg of New Zealand. Dan,

16:42

are you familiar with Jeff Murphy by

16:44

any chance? That name sounds vaguely familiar.

16:46

You have technically seen some of his

16:49

work, even if you've never seen any

16:51

of his movies. So he was a

16:53

New Zealand-based filmmaker. He's an enormous filmmaker

16:56

out of New Zealand. He'd kind of

16:58

been a part of the Renaissance of

17:00

New Zealand film in the 70s. And

17:03

there are two films that really bolstered

17:05

the New Zealand box office. Goodbye pork

17:07

pie and oo two. He eventually would

17:09

direct a bunch of American TV films

17:12

and sequels like Young Guns II and

17:14

then he was the second unit director

17:16

on Lord of the Rings and was

17:19

kind of like a legend on that

17:21

project working with Peter Jackson. So that's

17:23

where you definitely might be where I've

17:26

watched the appendices many times over so

17:28

that's probably where the name's hidden from.

17:30

Absolutely. At this point though he's looking

17:33

for his first Hollywood opportunity. So. Murphy

17:35

and the Thomas brothers get together and

17:37

they start working on the script for

17:40

about three months with a very specific

17:42

action star in mind for the lead

17:44

role, much less buff and coming off

17:47

of an Australian post-apocalyptic action film. Mel

17:49

Gibson. Mel Gibson, that's right, thank you.

17:51

But Fox had somebody bigger in mind,

17:54

and that of course is Arnold Schwarzenegger.

17:56

Now the Austrian-born bodybuilder was on the

17:58

verge of pulling off a truly impressive

18:01

career shift that would... Shift Hollywood and

18:03

as you mentioned kind of masculinity and

18:05

action films with it. He had won

18:08

Mr. Universe at age 20 would go

18:10

on to be Mr. Olympia seven times

18:12

and yes it was his role in

18:15

the 1977 documentary pumping iron that would

18:17

prove most influential to his career arc.

18:19

Have you seen pumping iron Dan? I

18:22

have not seen the whole documentary but

18:24

I've certainly seen my share of clips.

18:26

It's it's an interesting look at an

18:29

Arnold Schwarzenegger before media training was a

18:31

thing. Exactly. He's much less polished, very

18:33

raw in a lot of different ways.

18:35

He was having a good time back

18:38

then. Absolutely. Yeah, my uncle was in

18:40

the weightlifting scene, like kind of tangentially

18:42

in the late 70s, early 80s in

18:45

LA, and he, you know, crossed paths

18:47

with a number of these fellas, and

18:49

it was a very different world. The

18:52

Gold's Gym life back in the day.

18:54

So, by 95. It was clear that

18:56

Arnold, with his once-in-a-generation physique and limited

18:59

acting skills, let's be fair, he gets

19:01

better as he goes on. He does.

19:03

There were kind of two ways to

19:06

use him, it seems. Number one was

19:08

to instill terror, as James Cameron had

19:10

done very effectively with the Terminator. And

19:13

number two was to generate laughs. Some

19:15

of the best comedy one-liners of all

19:17

time are in commando. Absolutely. It's just

19:20

so campy and on its face ridiculous

19:22

that you can't help but be swept

19:24

away I feel like by that movie.

19:27

I mean you're just carrying giant logs.

19:29

It's almost slapstick. It really is. It

19:31

feels almost more like Abbott and Costello

19:34

or something than it does like an

19:36

action. movies. Yes. Well, it was extremely

19:38

successful. The Terminator had more than 10x

19:41

its budget at the box office and

19:43

Commando, the more direct comp, made nearly

19:45

60 million against its $10 million budget.

19:48

So the verdict's San Arnold to star.

19:50

Unfortunately, he was not a fan of

19:52

Jeff Murphy. Murphy had actually been considered

19:55

for Arnold's breakout movie, Conan the Barbarian,

19:57

the John Millius film, but in keeping

19:59

with his New Zealand sense of humor,

20:01

when he met with Arnold, he kept

20:04

referring to the character as Conan the

20:06

librarian. I'm not 100% sure why, but

20:08

it is funny. It's a solid B

20:11

minus joke. Arnold, who was taking his

20:13

transition to the movies very seriously. did

20:15

not like this. To be clear, I

20:18

don't think this was a shot at

20:20

Arnold. I think Murphy was just making

20:22

fun of the ridiculousness of the material.

20:25

Yeah. Doesn't matter. Arnold's in, Murphy's out,

20:27

and John Davis has the perfect replacement.

20:29

He's 34, and he had just directed

20:32

his first film. Dan, have you ever

20:34

seen the movie Nomads with Pierce Brosnan?

20:36

I have not seen Nomads, no. It

20:39

features possibly the most absurd French accent

20:41

I have ever heard, courtesy of Pierce

20:43

Brosnan. Let's give it a listen. No,

20:46

no, no, no, no. Nothing so dramatic.

20:48

My work is cultural there. I... It's

20:50

amazing. It is such a strange movie.

20:53

I'll try to describe it to you.

20:55

I watched it for this podcast. It's

20:57

actually very fun. So Pierce-Brasn is a

21:00

French anthropologist who studies nomads, who gets

21:02

sucked into a murder mystery involving inuit

21:04

trickster demon spirits, all told through flashback

21:07

as his female doctor at the time

21:09

of his death, becomes possessed with his

21:11

memories. It's a wild ride. That's a

21:14

lot to take in. And you know,

21:16

and I love Pierce Brosnan. I, you

21:18

know, I thought he was a great

21:21

James Bond that had the unfortunate luck

21:23

of having some terrible movies thrown his

21:25

way, but we've got to stop asking

21:28

him. to do things on film that

21:30

he can't do, because he also did

21:32

what I think is maybe some of

21:34

the worst singing I've ever seen in

21:37

a film in Mamma Mia. I mean,

21:39

know the man's range. He has good

21:41

range, but don't ask him to do

21:44

things. He can't do. Yeah, and I

21:46

think that actually, this experience, not to

21:48

go on too much of a pure

21:51

sprawling tangent, but he was, he had.

21:53

only really done Remington Steel at this

21:55

point, the TV series. And so this

21:58

was a really big opportunity because Gerard

22:00

Departou had dropped out of the lead

22:02

role and they needed somebody at the

22:05

last minute, so he jumps in. I'm

22:07

like, why didn't she just rewrite it

22:09

and make him Irish? Right, just scratch

22:12

out French. Exactly. Regardless, John Davis really

22:14

liked this movie. So he sits Lawrence

22:16

Gordon down in a screening down in

22:19

a screening room at Fox and says,

22:21

watch this. I don't know what Gordon

22:23

thought of it, but Arnold Schwarzenegger apparently

22:26

liked it and liked John McTernan and

22:28

was like, this is our guy! So

22:30

McTernan gets hired to direct, Lawrence Gordon

22:33

pulls in his old buddy, Joel Silver,

22:35

to produce, and the Thomas brothers get

22:37

a crash course in Hollywood weird by

22:40

way of Arnold Schwarzenegger and a hot

22:42

tub. So Jim and John Thomas first

22:44

met Arnold at Marvin Davis's 45, square

22:47

foot home. where he sat nude in

22:49

a hot tub smoking a cigar quizzing

22:51

them about his character motivations. And the

22:54

Thomas brothers smartly pivot away from commando.

22:56

This isn't going to be cartoonish. This

22:58

is not going to be funny. The

23:00

stakes are going to be higher. You're

23:03

in every man. They had a vision.

23:05

We want this to be kind of

23:07

a serious movie for you. Now, the

23:10

only problem is John McTernan did not

23:12

think the movie. was going to be

23:14

serious, as he later said of the

23:17

script. I could see the potential. It

23:19

had some stupid stuff in it that

23:21

I figured I could get rid of,

23:24

but it seemed fun. It was an

23:26

action movie and didn't take itself too

23:28

seriously. Well, the script took itself seriously,

23:31

but I didn't. End quote. I mean,

23:33

to all of those things that John

23:35

Materina said about the movie should have

23:38

just been the pulls for the poster.

23:40

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So this begins kind

23:42

of like the first point of contention

23:45

around like what the tone of the

23:47

film is going to be. So the

23:49

Thomas Brothers don't want to change the

23:52

script because they feel like it's really

23:54

working well. Everybody up until this point

23:56

has told them how good it is.

23:59

And here comes John McTernan saying, yeah,

24:01

I don't think it's that great. McTernon

24:03

apparently is viewing it as more of

24:06

an adventure film. I'm thinking a roller

24:08

coaster. I'm honestly thinking something kind of

24:10

like Temple of Doom where you have

24:13

these set pieces connecting the characters. It's

24:15

a little fun. It's a little hokey.

24:17

The ending of the movie in particular

24:20

was a point of contention as what

24:22

will happen in Predator 2. Dutch discovers

24:24

the Predator spacecraft. It's full of human

24:27

trophies. McTernon said this does not go

24:29

with the tone of an adventure film.

24:31

It's creepy. It's repulsive. It's repulsive. So

24:33

McKeerner actually wrote his own ending, which

24:36

the studio didn't like, and they said,

24:38

just, we're not hiring you to write,

24:40

go stop doing that, you're just directing

24:43

the movie. And there were even talks

24:45

at the end of killing Dutch and

24:47

letting the predator win at the end

24:50

of the end of the predator win

24:52

at the end of the movie. Those

24:54

talks went nowhere, as I'm sure. That's

24:57

not going to happen. No. Not in

24:59

the 1980s and not with Arnold Schwarzenegger

25:01

Schwarzenegger, not a chance. It's like so

25:04

horrible. One time he lets himself go.

25:06

So the Thomas Brothers are at the

25:08

end of their rope. They're basically like,

25:11

John McKernon seems to be making a

25:13

very different movie than what we've written,

25:15

so we're out. They stepped away from

25:18

the project, they took an overall deal

25:20

with Disney, and they assumed that their

25:22

time with Predator was done. It was

25:25

only lurking in the shadows. It would

25:27

come back and pull them back in

25:29

soon. Meanwhile, casting begins in earnest. And

25:32

Dan, this movie has an amazing cast.

25:34

And that is largely in thanks to

25:36

Jackie Birch. We discussed in our Die

25:39

Hard episode, she's a veteran casting director

25:41

of not just action films, but comedies

25:43

and ensemble pieces. She did a lot

25:46

of John Hughes movies, and she wanted

25:48

to stack the cast with real Vietnam

25:50

War veterans. And in the end, she

25:53

did get two. So Jesse Ventura plays

25:55

Blaine, was a professional wrestler, predator was

25:57

his first feature film. He auditioned for

25:59

Birch and got the role because he

26:02

fit the description of the character so

26:04

well. He's a real vet. He was

26:06

enormous and he chewed tobacco constantly. So

26:09

basically he played himself. In preparation for

26:11

the role, he claims he did aerobics

26:13

for six weeks to try to get

26:16

his weight down from 265 to 240

26:18

because he was so much bigger than

26:20

everybody else, including Arnold on the movie.

26:23

As material and said, the hardest thing

26:25

about getting him into an appropriate performance

26:27

was just scaling him down from the

26:30

world of professional wrestling, where you're performing

26:32

for the people in the cheap seats.

26:34

Yeah. So Bill Duke was an actor

26:37

and director. He just starred alongside Arnold

26:39

and Commando, and so that was an

26:41

obvious fit. And then Birch loved Carl

26:44

Weathers from Rocky. And I mean, everybody

26:46

did. He was amazing as Apollo Creek.

26:48

Yeah. And he's physically a specimen. He's

26:51

in better shape and predator than I

26:53

think he was in Rocky. And he

26:55

was in great shape and Rocky. He's

26:58

bigger. He's certainly bigger and predator. He's

27:00

bigger and predator. He's bigger for sure.

27:02

I think he tried to get close

27:05

to Arnold. And that's what makes that

27:07

amazing handshake moment so good. Yes. But

27:09

there was pushback from the studio hiring

27:12

weathers for the role. I don't know

27:14

exactly why, but I would assume it's

27:16

because since he was so experienced, he

27:19

was expensive relative to the rest of

27:21

the secondary cast members. And the studio

27:23

was probably hesitant to pay that much

27:25

for somebody who was going to be

27:28

second banana to Arnold and die two-thirds

27:30

of the way through the movie. But

27:32

McTyrnan smartly knew that because he was

27:35

such a good actor, that would actually

27:37

enhance Arnold. So McTernon later said, I

27:39

knew if I put him next to

27:42

Arnold in most of the scenes, it

27:44

would help Arnold enormously. Every time Carl

27:46

was working, Arnold was over in the

27:49

corner of the set, watching, because he

27:51

was thinking, okay, this is my new

27:53

life and this guy knows how to

27:56

do it. I just put Carl in

27:58

Arnold's way and it worked out. Smart,

28:00

very smart. So Richard Chavez, who plays

28:03

Ponscho, was a relative... unknown actor, he'd

28:05

done a few movies but mostly TV,

28:07

Birch saw him perform in a play

28:10

about the Vietnam War, I believe it

28:12

was called Tracers, that he had actually

28:14

co-written with other Vietnam War veterans. So

28:17

again, he was the second Vietnam War

28:19

vet in the film. Now, you've mentioned

28:21

an actor or an original predator that

28:24

does not make it into the film.

28:26

Dan, who was supposed to play the

28:28

predator initially? I mean, unless I am

28:31

sorely mistaken, I believe it was another

28:33

icon of, I'd say more 90s action,

28:35

started in the 80s, but I think

28:38

I would associate him more with the

28:40

90s, Mr. Jean-Claude Van Dan. You're 100%

28:42

right, and he was more of an

28:45

icon of the 90s because he had

28:47

not yet broken out with Blood Sport,

28:49

which wouldn't come out until 1988. incredibly

28:52

energetic and impressed McTernon by basically running

28:54

around the office, jumping in the air,

28:56

doing the splits, and acting kind of

28:58

like a monkey, and said, this is

29:01

how the predator would work. And McTernon

29:03

said, great, that's great. I'll do it.

29:05

And apparently had to store his furniture

29:08

in Jackie Birch's garage when he took

29:10

the job, because I don't think he

29:12

had a place to live at the

29:15

time. He was maybe homeless. So Joel

29:17

Silver brought in Sunny Landom, they'd worked

29:19

together on 48 hours. I'm not sure

29:22

if you know a ton about Sunny

29:24

Landom, but he was a very volatile

29:26

person. Yeah, I've heard he's a wild

29:29

card, or was a wild card? Very

29:31

much so. Apparently the big issue was

29:33

that he was really unpredictable when he

29:36

drank. And so the insurance company would

29:38

actually not let them hire Landom. but

29:40

to protect the rest of the production

29:43

from Landon. So they had a six

29:45

foot eight guy who 24 hours a

29:47

day would just stand behind Landon and

29:50

make sure he never misbehaved while he

29:52

was on set. And there are some

29:54

very funny stories about like them going

29:57

to a club on their off days

29:59

and like. looking out at the dance

30:01

floor and Sunnyland and would be like

30:04

crawling on the ground licking women's legs.

30:06

It was very, well, very unusual behavior.

30:08

And he had a bit of a

30:11

troubled life after the production, a couple

30:13

of failed bids at political office and

30:15

some personal issues that we don't

30:17

need to get into. Now, stepping

30:20

into this testosterone-fueled endeavor, of course,

30:22

is Mexican actress, El Pia Carillo.

30:24

who had had a small role in The

30:26

Border starring Jack Nicholson when she was 17.

30:29

She didn't speak in English before she took

30:31

that role. And then Oliver Stone's Salvador.

30:33

Now, unlike everybody else involved

30:35

with the exception of Ventura and Chavez,

30:38

she had had an extremely difficult upbringing

30:40

that was marked by a lot of

30:42

violence that's not dissimilar from what

30:44

her character describes in the film. So

30:47

her father was murdered when she was very

30:49

young, leaving her mother to raise 10

30:51

children on her own, and her oldest

30:53

brother Rurimiro. who had become a surrogate father

30:55

to her and her siblings, was actually

30:57

shot and murdered outside their town's movie

30:59

theater when she was just an adolescent.

31:01

And then she left home at age

31:03

10. She worked at a Chinese restaurant

31:05

in Mexico City. She was eventually discovered

31:07

by a local photographer, a turn that

31:10

led to modeling, and then eventually acting.

31:12

And there's a pretty harrowing interview

31:14

you can read. with her online

31:16

at Harold deparie.com and she describes

31:18

some of her early roles and

31:21

how predatory the producers and directors

31:23

were around her. It's pretty daunting

31:25

stuff. So she was more than

31:27

prepared to handle the machismo bullshit,

31:30

you know what I mean? Of

31:32

these Hollywood actors, is my point. Now,

31:34

there were signs that the studio

31:36

was not happy with the script.

31:38

Most notably, there's one actor on

31:41

this project who's more known as

31:43

a screenwriter. Dan Weirdest appearances in

31:45

an 80s action movie absolutely Shane Black

31:47

who is the first individual to die

31:49

and we'll get to why in a

31:51

second was first approached by Joel Silver

31:53

not to act in the film, but

31:56

to rewrite it But at the time

31:58

he was very interested in acting So

32:00

he declined the writing job. So as

32:02

John Davis recalled, quote, so the idea

32:04

was hatched, we'll hire him as an

32:06

actor, and when he's there, stuck in

32:09

Mexico, we'll give him the script and

32:11

we'll make him rewrite it. And we

32:13

got him down there, and we asked

32:15

him to do a rewrite, and he

32:17

said he was an actor in the

32:20

movie and not a writer. So he

32:22

was the first person we killed. He

32:24

got killed seven minutes into that movie.

32:26

And quite. Wow, the pettiness. So petty.

32:28

And it also, it actually, the way

32:31

that some of the blocking is done,

32:33

it would make more sense for Poncho,

32:35

Richard Chavez's character, to be killed in

32:37

that scene where he's chasing Alpedia through

32:39

the jungle. But they kind of do

32:42

a bait and switch and they have

32:44

Shane Black follow her. So I totally

32:46

believe that they swapped the death order

32:48

so that he would die earlier. Oh,

32:51

they totally did. And I'm sure the

32:53

writers guild member at the time had

32:55

been. hijacked essentially to rewrite a script.

32:57

I believe he must have been because

32:59

Monster Squad was also in production, kind

33:02

of contemporaneous to this, which he had

33:04

written and was obviously a big studio

33:06

movie. So what exactly was gonna kill

33:08

Shane Black's character was still being hotly

33:10

debated. And let's get into the trials

33:13

and tribulations of making the actual god

33:15

damn predator. Yeah. While John and Jim

33:17

were writing, they said they envisioned a

33:19

creature that moved like a monkey, but

33:22

had the face of a cuddle fish,

33:24

which is kind of very specific and

33:26

odd, to design the predator, Joel Silver

33:28

first reached out to makeup artist Rick

33:30

Baker. which makes a lot of sense.

33:33

Class is a legend. A legend. Even

33:35

at that time, already a legend. Yeah,

33:37

I mean, American Warwolf in London, 1981,

33:39

he had done incredible work, and he

33:41

was actually really busy working on Harry

33:44

and the Henderson's at this point. A

33:46

great 80s movie that you were probably

33:48

allowed to watch. I was allowed to

33:50

watch Harry and Henderson's, and I watched

33:53

it many, many times over. That and

33:55

Santa Claus the movie are my keystone

33:57

John Lithko experiences as a child. cliffhanger

33:59

because I could watch. Oh, I'll see.

34:01

That was one. Not till later. Yeah.

34:04

So the project then goes to Richard

34:06

Edlund of boss films who Obviously, Star

34:08

Wars rated as the last arc. Now,

34:10

the final predator design is Hollywood lore,

34:12

and I'm sure you've heard the story

34:15

of where the final design comes from

34:17

and we'll get there, but the original

34:19

design is kind of a bit of

34:21

an orphan. I think it's one of

34:23

those defeats that no one wants to

34:26

claim. So some sources claim that Edlin

34:28

designed the predators. Others suggest that he

34:30

and his team worked from a design

34:32

provided to them by a designer who'd

34:35

already worked with the filmmakers. Who knows?

34:37

What is clear, according to Beaumarks, who

34:39

was an associate producer on the film,

34:41

is that because McTernan was a relatively

34:43

new director, Joel Silver was actually more

34:46

involved in designing the original predator than

34:48

McTernan was, which knowing Joel Silver's personality

34:50

makes a lot of sense. I think

34:52

that Joel Silver is always very involved

34:54

in anything he's doing. He does make

34:57

a couple of really key inputs in

34:59

this movie that I think led to

35:01

a better film, and we'll get to

35:03

those. So the original design, I think,

35:06

looks a lot like the aliens from

35:08

a quiet place, the humanoid rendition of

35:10

the demogorgen and stranger things, the elites

35:12

in halo, long arms, heavily musseled, that

35:14

high set ankle that renders the legs

35:17

similar to a horse. I like the

35:19

original design on paper, actually, quite a

35:21

bit, but the problem is they're shooting

35:23

on location in the jungles of Mexico,

35:25

right? And this is not a practical

35:28

suit for somebody to wear when running

35:30

through muddy and hot terrain. You just

35:32

can't do it. It's not going to

35:34

work. It's not a practical suit to

35:36

begin with. Exactly. They're effectively on stilts

35:39

wearing a head on top of their

35:41

head, you know, covered in latex and

35:43

rubber in 100 degree weather and 100%

35:45

humidity. It's just not going to go

35:48

well. Now, that's not the only thing

35:50

they're worried about. They're trying to figure

35:52

out the heat vision and camouflage effects,

35:54

as we mentioned, as well. So those

35:56

would be handled by a pair of

35:59

brothers, Richard and. Robert Greenberg of our

36:01

Greenberg Associates. They've done the effects for

36:03

Joel Silver's Xanadu, his produced Xanadu. I

36:05

know. Throwback. Another, I think it's 81

36:07

as well. That's got to be either

36:10

a past or future topic for this

36:12

show. Oh, it's been requested a number

36:14

of times and we have it. That

36:16

and Zardoz are like two of the

36:19

highest ones that I really want. Yeah.

36:21

I mean, six shooter Sean Connery Red

36:23

Babydiper is one of the wildest looks

36:25

ever committed to film. Yes, it is.

36:27

It's incredible. So the camouflage was developed

36:30

by special effects supervisor Joel Heinek. He

36:32

took an existing method where they created

36:34

mat outlines of like title elements and

36:36

people and decided, oh, what if I

36:38

did an in-line version of that? So

36:41

the concentric circles you seen are basically

36:43

they shoot an element of the background,

36:45

the plate of the background, then they

36:47

shoot the character, you know, on a

36:50

stage basically, and then they create a

36:52

set of mat lines. going concentrically inward

36:54

from the outline of the body and

36:56

they superimpose it on the background and

36:58

it creates the illusion of, oh, there's

37:01

something there rippling right across the background.

37:03

And the idea was basically like, if

37:05

you put a water droplet on a

37:07

photograph and it obscures it underneath and

37:09

obviously it gets much better in subsequent

37:12

films and has become really the basis

37:14

for all forms of active camouflage all

37:16

the way through the Invisible Man, you

37:18

know, that we've seen to this day.

37:20

It was a pretty revolutionary effect. Yeah,

37:23

I mean, you know, you look at

37:25

it, you can tell it's the 80s,

37:27

but, but still, it holds up. I

37:29

agree. I think it, it achieves what

37:32

it needs to emotionally, and because we've

37:34

actually seen it improve directionally from where

37:36

it started, it has a nostalgic, like

37:38

warm and fuzzy feel to it, as

37:40

opposed to other effects that have simply

37:43

been replaced by a different technology entirely,

37:45

where you look back and you say,

37:47

oh yeah, you know, I mean, in

37:49

a different way now. I mean, you

37:51

staying with Arnold. there's there's stuff in

37:54

the Terminator particularly the the the first

37:56

Terminator, the kind of animatronic double of

37:58

him that just, and I think James

38:00

Cameron even said it, it just doesn't

38:03

work anymore. It just doesn't work at

38:05

all. I mean, Predator, the invisibility looks

38:07

dated, yes, but it still works. I

38:09

agree. Yeah, and you can tell it's

38:11

funny with Terminator. They obviously deleted the

38:14

scene in the second Terminator when they

38:16

used Linda Hamilton's twin sister to do

38:18

the, you know, surgical scene on Arnold's

38:20

head in order to avoid the doubling

38:22

issue that they'd run into on the

38:25

first film. can see him learning from

38:27

his mistakes and some really really remarkable

38:29

effects worth there. Now speaking of distorting

38:31

things the draft of the script had

38:33

apparently gotten to the point where nobody

38:36

even knew what they were making at

38:38

this point and so as Shane Black

38:40

said they did the classic Hollywood thing

38:42

which is they hired seven different people

38:45

to do a rewrite and then they

38:47

went back to the original because they

38:49

realized it was actually pretty good to

38:51

begin with. So September, October, 1985, the

38:53

Thomas Brothers agent, they actually have one

38:56

now, calls them and says, the script

38:58

is in, they hate it, they hate

39:00

the script, they want you guys back,

39:02

because Shane Black won't rewrite it, and

39:04

if they want you to go down

39:07

to the production in Mexico. So the

39:09

writers get shipped down, everybody's down in

39:11

Mexico, productions fast approaching, and they've got

39:13

like a week before shooting to do

39:16

military training. The military procedures in this

39:18

movie are not particularly accurate. And that's

39:20

for a couple of reasons. First of

39:22

all, as a Vietnam vet and military

39:24

trainer Gary Goldman said, None of these

39:27

guys look like soldiers. They're way too

39:29

big. They're massive. His poll point was

39:31

like, to be a soldier, you have

39:33

to be able to run. If you

39:35

can't run, you're screwed. He took them

39:38

on a run his first day, and

39:40

he said they all tried really hard.

39:42

In particular, Arnold, like really worked his

39:44

ass off to keep up. But he's

39:47

like, these guys are bodybuilders. They're enormous.

39:49

My guess is Carl Weatherers was the

39:51

most fit out of everybody, and he

39:53

was known to be a bit of

39:55

a bit of a bit of a

39:58

bit of a bit of a bit

40:00

of a bit of health nut. like

40:02

real soldiers. So he's trying to teach

40:04

them how to use the machine guns

40:06

properly. Fire, you know, three to six

40:09

rounds in controlled bursts. Bill Duke proceeds

40:11

to pick up the mini gun and

40:13

scream like a madman. And just like

40:15

in the movie, fire 200 rounds off

40:17

in an uncontrolled burst until it runs

40:20

dry. And Goldman kind of realizes, okay.

40:22

This is the kind of action movie

40:24

that we're making. We're not actually going

40:26

to worry about being too accurate in

40:29

this instance. No. You're telling me that

40:31

soldiers don't hip shoot machine guns? Just

40:33

everybody's firing from the hip. That's the

40:35

big, that's like the most recognition. Well,

40:37

that and Carl Weather is going. Guns

40:40

a Kimbo with two MP5s is one

40:42

of my other favorite and his arm

40:44

gets blown off. I mean at some

40:46

point you just have to lean into

40:48

it. It's great. I mean like there's

40:51

no way you can control those guns.

40:53

Not a chance. Not a chance. Even

40:55

Arnold. Even the best strongest people in

40:57

the world. Yeah. And I love others

41:00

like headshodding guys. from the whole time.

41:02

Perfect accuracy. Ten point accuracy. It's so

41:04

funny though. I remember I just saw

41:06

the trailer for the accountant too, which

41:08

just looks wonderfully stupid. And but that

41:11

is something that's changed so much culturally

41:13

is they actually aimed on the sites

41:15

of guns now in movies. It is.

41:17

I've John Keoner reads. Yeah, John Wick,

41:19

that changed. He made everyone look. He

41:22

publicly made it so that anybody who

41:24

doesn't do the work now is gonna

41:26

look so stupid. crews in collateral who

41:28

like does a proper draw and actually

41:31

you know knew how to hold those

41:33

firearms or at least I have been

41:35

told by firearms experts that kind of

41:37

I feel like was the early shot

41:39

across the bow of hip-firing weapons. Yes

41:42

absolutely. in this movie. And Schwarzenager decides

41:44

he's going to go as big as

41:46

possible. So he has his weights shipped.

41:48

to Mexico. His trainer Sven O. Thorcen,

41:50

he also played a Russian officer in

41:53

that big shootout at the end of

41:55

Act 1, comes with him, and he

41:57

wakes up at 5.30 a.m. every day

41:59

to work out until he realizes Carl

42:01

Weathers is actually trying to beat him

42:04

to the gym. And so he starts

42:06

coming in at 4.30, Weathers comes in

42:08

at 4. And finally, these guys are

42:10

in the gym at 3.30 a. Just

42:13

getting as swole as possible every single

42:15

day. And they're trying to rope everybody

42:17

else in. So John Davis remembers Arnold

42:19

pressured him into a workout. He does

42:21

it. The next morning, he was in

42:24

so much pain that when Arnold came

42:26

and knocked on the door, he just

42:28

pretended to sleep through it because he

42:30

could not get out of bed. I

42:32

mean, that's what an Arnold workout will

42:35

do to you. He had the drive.

42:37

He had whatever it takes to succeed.

42:39

Arnold Schwarzenegger had it. He did. He's

42:41

relentless relentless. And I think actually one

42:44

of the reasons he... was able to

42:46

transition to film is weightlifting like filmmaking

42:48

is so process oriented. It is such

42:50

a delayed satisfaction based endeavor where you

42:52

have to trust that eventually you'll get

42:55

there. And I think a lot of

42:57

people think filmmaking, oh, it's a creative

42:59

activity, it's about inspiration, you know, finding

43:01

lightning in a bottle. It's about relentless

43:03

iteration. And that's what... you know, building

43:06

your muscles is too. That's true. That

43:08

inspiration comes on the 15th try of

43:10

something. Exactly, or 132nd if you're Stanley

43:12

Kubrick as we just covered. Now, Arnold

43:14

was, it seems, maybe a little insecure

43:17

about one member, Jesse Ventura, was the

43:19

only person close to his size. He

43:21

later admitted. that he told the wardrobe

43:23

team to lie to Jesse Ventura about

43:26

Arnold's costume measurements, to make him believe

43:28

that his bicep was one inch bigger

43:30

than Arnold's. And then according to Arnold,

43:32

Jesse told Arnold while they were working

43:34

out together, hey, we should measure our

43:37

biceps, see who's bigger, and bet a

43:39

bottle of champagne on it, and of

43:41

course Arnold's was three. inches bigger because

43:43

he had given him the wrong measurement.

43:45

Yeah, of course. A whole lot of

43:48

that, you know, fun boys club stuff

43:50

going on. Those are the games you

43:52

play. Exactly. So production begins in spring

43:54

of 1986, sometime in March or April,

43:57

near the resort community in Porto Vallarta.

43:59

And this was delayed because of Arnold's

44:01

commitment to raw deal. So they're finally

44:03

getting started. And everything slows down to

44:05

a halt immediately. A number of problems

44:08

are... quickly apparent. Number one, they don't

44:10

have the predator suit yet. So it's

44:12

not ready, it's not done, so they

44:14

start shooting everything without the predator involved,

44:16

which fortunately is a good chunk of

44:19

the movie. It's a lot of the

44:21

movie. Yeah. So they've got 14-hour days

44:23

that are stretching to 19-hour days, the

44:25

temperature is 100 degrees plus, high humidity,

44:28

it's ruining the makeup, they have to

44:30

reset, do touch-ups, the actors and crew

44:32

are carrying heavy machinery and literal machine

44:34

guns. And it turns out that Porta

44:36

Vallata is missing a key element that

44:39

the script called for. A jungle. Oh,

44:41

you think that would pop up in

44:43

the location scout? Well, apparently, McTurnan claims

44:45

that the production designer had a house

44:47

near there and got the movie so

44:50

he could redo his house while he

44:52

was making the movie. Jim Thomas and

44:54

second unit director Craig Baxley claimed that

44:56

it was actually because Joel Silver and

44:58

John Davis had villas that they would...

45:01

vacation out there, so it was easier

45:03

for them. That makes more sense to

45:05

me. That makes a lot more sense.

45:07

The producers are the ones that are

45:10

going to make that call. I agree.

45:12

Now they may have hired the local

45:14

production designer who also wanted to, you

45:16

know what I mean, redo his house.

45:18

Sure. Further, they were filming during dry

45:21

season, so everything was brown. Nothing was

45:23

like lush and green. So they actually

45:25

had to bring in foliage. They had

45:27

to spray the area with water to

45:29

remove dirt and dust and green it

45:32

up. They built a bunch of trees

45:34

out of styrofoam and fiberglass. I believe

45:36

that amazing split tree at the end

45:38

of the film that kind of serves

45:41

as your central geography was a build.

45:43

And actually, I think. It looks great.

45:45

It holds up really well. Stuns and

45:47

explosions exacerbated the problem. They were using

45:49

so many squibs and explosive devices that

45:52

after shooting a few takes, the area

45:54

they were filming in would just look

45:56

like a baseball diamond. It was just

45:58

like totally flat. There was just nothing

46:00

left. And then of course, the train

46:03

was like really steep and really muddy.

46:05

So they were constantly having to deal

46:07

with that. And there were snakes. Famously

46:09

called the two-step, they call it that

46:11

because if it bites you take before

46:14

you take before you die. Not a

46:16

good, not a good omen. Then there

46:18

were the red ants. Richard Chavez laid

46:20

down for a break during training, only

46:23

to find himself completely covered with the

46:25

little guys. He then ripped his clothes

46:27

off, ran through the jungle completely naked,

46:29

and jumped in the production water tank.

46:31

He was very disappointed because he'd been

46:34

working out really hard with Arnold, and

46:36

he wanted to be able to show

46:38

off his muscles in the early scenes

46:40

of the movie, and now he was

46:42

covered in red waltz, so that probably

46:45

wasn't going to happen. There were a

46:47

lot of scorpions. A lot of scorpions

46:49

they had to put towels under the

46:51

door to keep the scorpions from getting

46:54

into their rooms at night. And actually,

46:56

that did lead to one of its

46:58

film's most famous lines. Ventura's I Ain't

47:00

Got Time to Bleed. That scene had

47:02

actually been cut for scheduling purposes, but

47:05

Sunny Landham got bit by a scorpion

47:07

or stung, and so they put that

47:09

scene back on the schedule because his

47:11

character was not involved. Wow. See a

47:13

little silver lining classic Hollywood moments all

47:16

at the whim of a scorpion stinger

47:18

exactly and then of course if you

47:20

survived all that you still got traveler's

47:22

diarrhea They got a notification from the

47:25

hotel that the water was not potable

47:27

because the filtration system had broken down

47:29

a week before the notification went out

47:31

so they had drank from it for

47:33

a week They would go say their

47:36

lines and according to Shane Black run

47:38

to the bathroom to shit their guts

47:40

out Arnold said during the shoot that

47:42

he was so dehydrated he was in

47:44

bed for four to five days and

47:47

had IV lines running into him. And

47:49

I mean you could use the production

47:51

water but one of the actors just

47:53

jumped in naked and it's full of

47:55

red ants so that's a no-go. Exactly.

47:58

There are of course... a number of

48:00

other injuries, including to stunt performers. The

48:02

waterfall jump was done by Arnold's double.

48:04

The double fell and broke his knee

48:07

and had to be flown home. And

48:09

just a knee break sounds like the

48:11

most painful possible place to break a

48:13

bone. So many complex things happening there.

48:15

No, thank you. And of course, Joel

48:18

Silver had decided to hire a local

48:20

crew in order to save money instead

48:22

of Americans, and unfortunately they were less

48:24

than experienced. Turns out they didn't have

48:26

much experience at all and light fixtures

48:29

started exploding on set because they had

48:31

not properly been replaced as requested by

48:33

DP Donald McAlpine. So they asked for

48:35

American replacements and Silver was like, are

48:38

you insane? We can't afford this movie

48:40

with actual Americans. So he said, can

48:42

you get folks from Australia? So they

48:44

literally just started ringing up crew in Australia

48:47

because it's cheaper to pay an Australian crew

48:49

with the conversion rate, even if you have

48:51

to fly them to Mexico, halfway around the

48:54

world. And so they just call people and

48:56

say, do you have a passport and can

48:58

you be on a flight tomorrow? And that's

49:00

how they got the rest of their crew. That

49:03

is wacky. I mean, what you'll do to

49:05

save a dollar in Hollywood is just,

49:07

it's so ridiculous. Literally anything. Yeah, anything.

49:09

Anything to save 50 cents, they'll do

49:11

it. Even if it costs you a

49:13

dollar, but you save that 50 cents.

49:15

But you save 50 cents. You can,

49:17

that's how they think. Yeah, you can

49:20

bank that savings. Now Arnold Schwarzenegger

49:22

did also get married early

49:24

in production late April. He

49:26

leaves from Massachusetts to marry Maria

49:28

Shriver, which I'm not blaming him.

49:31

Why not reschedule schedule it. I

49:33

mean, listen, we're talking to Kennedy

49:35

here. The apparatus around that, I

49:37

would imagine, was pretty, I don't

49:39

know, I don't know when they

49:41

set the wedding date, but I

49:43

imagine probably pretty far out. Yeah,

49:45

no. So I'll grant him on

49:47

that because I can imagine that

49:49

you're probably talking thousands of guests.

49:52

Oh, I'm sure. That's like, that'd

49:54

be like rescheduling a royal wedding.

49:56

That's fair. And Schwarzenegger,

49:58

to his credit, I've read. and

50:00

driven on this set. He wanted everybody

50:02

to take it as seriously as him,

50:04

and he also wanted them to smoke

50:06

cigars with him. So Schwarzenegger was handing

50:08

out cigars left and right. He even

50:10

got Carl Weathers to join in, who

50:13

was like a big health nut, and

50:15

everybody thought, this is great, we're all

50:17

smoking cigars. Until the producers realized that

50:19

Schwarzenegger was billing the production for the

50:21

cigars, and they got the cigar bill

50:23

at the end of the production, it

50:25

was thousands and thousands of dollars. Which,

50:27

very, very smart. Now, when people ask

50:30

about a time machine, what would you

50:32

do? And everyone comes up with a fancy

50:34

answer. Honestly, I think a top five

50:36

thing for me would be go back

50:38

to the set of predator and smoke

50:40

a cigar with an old Schwarzenegger. Yeah,

50:42

yeah. It'd be pretty fun. I will

50:44

say what would not be fun is

50:46

what they had to do to get

50:48

the heat vision to work. So. Heat

50:50

Vision nowadays, I feel like, is

50:52

easily achieved or enhanced through a

50:55

combination of post-production tools that were

50:57

not available in the late 1980s.

50:59

Lucky for the production, SFX supervisor

51:02

Joel Heinich had recently used a

51:04

heat camera for a commercial about

51:06

home insulation. But the heat camera

51:09

is not a film camera, right?

51:11

So they have to come up

51:13

with a way to convert it.

51:15

into a film stock and they

51:18

have to be able to switch

51:20

from a normal perspective into the

51:22

heat perspective on the exact same

51:25

point of view. So they

51:27

used a beam splitter, which is

51:29

basically a mirror that sits

51:31

at a 45 degree angle

51:33

to the scene. to redirect

51:36

half of the light that hits the

51:38

mirror down into a heat camera and

51:40

then allows the other half of the

51:42

light to pass through it to hit

51:45

the regular camera directly aimed

51:47

at the scene. If you'd like to

51:49

see something similar, nope did

51:51

the same thing basically with

51:53

an infrared camera and a

51:55

regular camera to do its

51:57

day for night scenes. So...

51:59

Interesting. It's like how a teleprompter

52:01

works, just in reverse. Yeah, I

52:03

had honestly always assumed that

52:06

that was just visual effects

52:08

of some sort. No, that was

52:10

actually animation or some, you know,

52:12

entirely practical as well. Wow. Yeah,

52:14

and that is pretty cool. And

52:16

very painful. So they have a

52:18

two camera rig, right? These cameras

52:21

are rigged up to each other,

52:23

basically at a 90 degree angle

52:25

with a mirror. in between them,

52:27

capturing the image, which means it's

52:29

very big and very heavy and

52:31

cumbersome. And they actually attached this

52:33

to a steady cam to achieve

52:35

it. So this was effectively being

52:37

done handheld, which is, I mean,

52:39

kudos to the operator, whoever it

52:41

was, because that must have been

52:43

heavy. It had an incredibly complex

52:45

pipeline to then get that onto

52:47

film. So they had to run

52:49

a cable from that heat camera

52:51

into a monitor that was inside

52:53

of a van parked nearby. They then

52:56

had a film camera

52:58

inside of that van

53:00

filming the monitor to

53:02

capture the heat vision on

53:04

film. So they were shooting an image

53:07

of an image already coming through a

53:09

mirror right in order to get this

53:11

film Which on the one hand is

53:13

very complicated But on the other hand

53:16

actually does give it a somewhat more

53:18

organic look like it's digital But it

53:20

doesn't look too chunky for like 80s

53:22

digital Maybe that's why I assumed it

53:24

was effects because it does have that

53:27

sort of digital look and I'm like

53:29

well they couldn't Wow, that's, that is

53:31

crazy. It was very time-consuming. There was

53:33

a dedicated camera assistant who would basically

53:36

measure the angle of the beam splitter

53:38

with a protractor on every take because

53:40

they had to make sure it was

53:42

exactly 45 degrees, otherwise the perspective

53:45

would be off and the frame would

53:47

not be filled with a corresponding

53:49

image. Some days, according to bow

53:51

marks, they would only get three

53:54

seconds of usable footage from the

53:56

predator's POV. The jungle was just as

53:58

hot as the people. that they were

54:00

trying to show shining like lights. So

54:03

when the jungles, you know, 95 degrees,

54:05

you just blend in as Arnold does

54:07

when he's covered in mud at the

54:09

end of the film. So their

54:11

first solution is basically they run

54:14

in and they hit whoever's in the

54:16

shot with a hair dryer. They heat

54:18

them up physically right before they

54:20

roll. Then they tried putting bags on

54:22

top of people so that they would

54:25

overheat and then rip the bag off

54:27

and shoot the scene. smart, intentionally overheat

54:29

your actors in the jungle. Yep, who

54:31

are already dehydrated from shitting their brains

54:33

out. Yeah, right. So Heinrich sends a

54:35

memo to Joel Silver basically saying, look,

54:38

this isn't working. If the temperature reaches

54:40

94 degrees outside, we can't shoot. The actors

54:42

are indistinguishable from their environment. This of course

54:44

happens. Joel Silver who didn't read the memo

54:47

runs out screams at Heinrich saying breach of

54:49

breach of contract, you know, I'm gonna

54:51

fire you. And so they decide instead of

54:53

heating up the actors, let's, let's, let's, let's

54:55

cool down the jungle. So they bring in

54:58

water trucks and they spray everything down, but

55:00

of course the water trucks were painted black

55:02

so they wouldn't be caught in the background

55:04

and that absorbs heat and the water heated

55:07

up. So that didn't work, so they had

55:09

to then go and return with ice water

55:11

and they finally were able to successfully

55:13

cool down the set. Apparently the weather

55:15

ended up cooling down shortly after anyway.

55:17

Of course. So by the time they

55:20

come up with a solve, it happens

55:22

anyway. Now we talk briefly about Joel

55:24

Silver he and McTernan I think

55:26

we're really at loggerheads over the

55:28

tone of this film and it's

55:31

interesting McTernan's such an unusual director

55:33

and I never know What he wants

55:35

to do with a movie necessarily because

55:37

he doesn't seem to take any of

55:39

them that Seriously, you know what I

55:41

mean if you listen to interviews

55:44

with him, but at the same time

55:46

he's very meticulous with what he wants.

55:48

Yes, I mean, I don't know I feel like

55:50

part of it is He's had an interesting

55:52

trajectory. I mean, it's not like he's been

55:54

making movies for decades. You know, he had

55:56

a bit of an interruption there. So I

55:58

think maybe that gives a little perspective as

56:01

to the importance of certain things versus,

56:03

you know, because it's, he is one

56:05

of those, I mean, you can't talk

56:07

about 80s actions without talking about John

56:10

McTernan, and yet his career was so

56:12

unlike so many of his peers. Yeah,

56:14

and he definitely seems to have a

56:16

paranoid personality as we later learned with

56:19

his. eventual indictment, you know, his work

56:21

with Anthony Pelicano's wiretapping a producer off

56:23

of rollerball. But at this point... Of

56:25

all the movies, too. I know, it's

56:28

just like, it's not worth it, man.

56:30

All the movies, rollerball? I know, I

56:32

know. Now, at this point, it seems

56:35

like McTernon wanted to lean more into

56:37

the horror elements or suspense elements of

56:39

the script and away from the action.

56:41

Joel Silver, though, it was like... actions,

56:44

what's going to get the audience here.

56:46

And I think that's specifically why he

56:48

hired second unit director Craig Baxley, who

56:50

had directed a lot of the action

56:53

work on the TV series, the A-team.

56:55

And so I think Maternan was feeling

56:57

like Silver was edging him out by

56:59

using a second unit director on the

57:02

action scenes. And so as a result,

57:04

Maternan started telling Baxley, we're basically not

57:06

going to shoot these action scenes. Don't

57:08

work. They don't matter. They don't matter.

57:11

They don't matter. Like the point. Like,

57:13

they don't matter. Like the point is

57:15

all of the suspend stuff. Like the

57:18

suspend stuff. Like the suspend stuff. Like

57:20

the suspend stuff. Like the suspend stuff.

57:22

Like the suspend stuff. Like the suspend

57:24

stuff. Now, I think the other concern

57:27

was that McTernan would fall behind, and

57:29

he did, very quickly. This was only

57:31

his second feature film, and it was

57:33

extremely difficult. So 48 days into a

57:36

56-day shoot, scheduled shoot, McTernan had, according

57:38

to Baxley, only shot half of the

57:40

movie. Yikes. So the studio is threatening

57:42

to shut the movie down, and Joel

57:45

Silver, according to Baxley, comes in and

57:47

says, in order to keep going, in

57:49

order to get the studio to fund

57:51

us further, we have to give them

57:54

some quote, quote, eye candy. So we're

57:56

going to have Craig Baxley, the second

57:58

unit director, choreograph and film, the entire

58:01

Palapa gunfight scene that ends act one.

58:03

So according to Baxley, he and his

58:05

team shot that entire sequence over seven

58:07

or eight days, it seems like with

58:10

him directing, not McTernan. Which is I

58:12

think if like Marvel movies nowadays actually

58:14

do think something kind of. not dissimilar

58:16

when they bring in an indie director

58:19

and you know they're like don't worry

58:21

we'll handle the action for you you

58:23

worry about the witty around the table

58:25

you know that we're gonna film later

58:28

well and I mean you know Lord

58:30

of the Rings there were lots of

58:32

things that I mean Peter Jackson was

58:34

certainly absolutely very involved but there were

58:37

lots of things B unit and Z

58:39

unit stuff that was done without his

58:41

involvement although an entire sequence is that's

58:44

a little bit extreme I think so

58:46

and it's hard to tell if and

58:48

how involved McTernan was, but it does

58:50

seem like Baxley was at the helm.

58:53

And that sequence does stand out as

58:55

being the most ridiculously raw, you know

58:57

what I mean, sequence of the film.

58:59

It feels... Yeah, it's the heart, it's

59:02

the beating heart of this 80s action

59:04

thriller. It's, it does feel like... you

59:06

could pluck that out and put it

59:08

in commando, you could pluck that out

59:11

and put it in just about any

59:13

movie, you know. But again, that's kind

59:15

of what makes the movie great. Yeah,

59:17

a little bit. Well, McTearanon actually had

59:20

a brilliant solution to this problem that

59:22

I think is one of the more

59:24

subversive elements of the movie. So he

59:26

was really frustrated that the studio and

59:29

Silver wanted this like gun pornography. And

59:31

so he basically says, look, I'm gonna

59:33

give you so much gun porn porn.

59:36

that you're never going to want to

59:38

see a gun for the rest of

59:40

the movie. And that's where he conceives

59:42

the scene, where Bill Duke goes down

59:45

and dryfires the mini gun. And they

59:47

all just hit fire every bullet in

59:49

their arsenal into the jungle, only to

59:51

realize they didn't even hit the darn

59:54

thing. So that scene was both to

59:56

satiate the studio's desire for gun barrels,

59:58

but also show the audience. Look at

1:00:00

how ineffective their type of warfare is

1:00:03

at the end of the day. And

1:00:05

hardly a gun is fired. Until, you

1:00:07

know, throughout the end of the film.

1:00:09

No, when they used other ammo. Exactly.

1:00:12

That's, that's called, what is it called,

1:00:14

malicious compliance? Exactly. That's exactly right. So,

1:00:16

the predator has finally arrived. Eight. 10

1:00:19

weeks into shooting, the suit shows up.

1:00:21

There's two versions. Have you done seen

1:00:23

the videos of the original Predator suit?

1:00:25

I have. I get kind of District

1:00:28

9 vibes. Yes, yes it does. It

1:00:30

looks a little bit like the prons

1:00:32

from District 9. Yeah. There's like the

1:00:34

holdout suit, which is red, which I'm

1:00:37

sure you've seen. It's basically a big

1:00:39

red-likera rubber suit. Just so it's the

1:00:41

opposite of green on when he's invisible,

1:00:43

and they can easily do the mat,

1:00:46

you know, you know, you know, you

1:00:48

know, you know, you know, you know,

1:00:50

you know, you know, you know, you

1:00:52

know, you know, you know, you know,

1:00:55

you know, you know, Then they have

1:00:57

the photography version. McTernon says he opens

1:00:59

the box, pulls the suit out, turns

1:01:02

to his assistant and says, we're in

1:01:04

trouble. Like this isn't going to work.

1:01:06

It was executed too quickly. The proportions,

1:01:08

although they looked good on paper, kind

1:01:11

of looked ridiculous on a person. Bo

1:01:13

Mark said it looked like a chicken.

1:01:15

Jim Thomas said it looked like a

1:01:17

cockroach. John Davis just said it was

1:01:20

underwhelming. Ironically, the only person who liked

1:01:22

it was Jean Claude Van Dam. Well,

1:01:24

at least he says that. Well, but

1:01:26

he was also really frustrated with the

1:01:29

suit too, because he didn't know that

1:01:31

he was going to be invisible the

1:01:33

entire movie. I don't know if he

1:01:35

never read the script. I mean, his

1:01:38

English wasn't great at the time, but

1:01:40

he at first thought it was like,

1:01:42

he hated the suit at first, because

1:01:45

he was like, I look like a

1:01:47

superhero. And they're like, no, no, no,

1:01:49

no, no, no, this is to the

1:01:51

invisibility. And he says, what invisibility. in

1:01:54

this film, or attentive, apparently. No. And

1:01:56

he really hated the feel of the

1:01:58

suit because it impeded his ability to

1:02:00

move. And say whatever you will about

1:02:03

Jean-Claude Ben Dam, the muscles from Brussels

1:02:05

was known for his cat-like agility. The

1:02:07

guy is truly bendable and agile. Have

1:02:09

you, have you Dan ever seen the

1:02:12

YouTube John Claude Van Dam Volvo commercial?

1:02:14

Oh yes. Where he does the splits

1:02:16

on the automated driving? Classic. Is it

1:02:18

India, I believe, and India soundtrack? Yes,

1:02:21

exactly. YouTube, JCD Volvo commercial, you will

1:02:23

thank me later audience. So he described

1:02:25

the experience of being on this movie

1:02:28

as a nightmare. He would overheat, he

1:02:30

would sweat buckets, they then run in.

1:02:32

put a hose in the back of

1:02:34

his suit, pump air conditioning inside, all

1:02:37

of the sweat would freeze. He'd be

1:02:39

too cold, so he'd oscillate from way

1:02:41

too hot to way too cold. His

1:02:43

head was in the costume's neck, not

1:02:46

unlike a character at a theme park.

1:02:48

And they had this character at a

1:02:50

theme park, and they had this big

1:02:52

predator head on top weighing him down.

1:02:55

He's only five nine, so I think

1:02:57

they were having to use a lot

1:02:59

of perspective tricks to make the character

1:03:01

seem bigger than, you know, for, They

1:03:04

had to put them on stilts to

1:03:06

create the look at the legs, you

1:03:08

know, the kind of horse-like legs that

1:03:11

the designers had created. And it becomes

1:03:13

quickly apparent that this isn't going to

1:03:15

work out. And it's unclear why or

1:03:17

what precipitated his firing, but we do

1:03:20

know that Joel Silver is the one

1:03:22

who fired him. And there were some

1:03:24

moments of disagreement that may have led

1:03:26

to it. For example, he refused an

1:03:29

order from Silver to perform a jump

1:03:31

in the suit because he was worried

1:03:33

that it was going to break his

1:03:35

legs. And everybody has their own versions

1:03:38

for like why he was fired. it

1:03:40

was just because he was too short.

1:03:42

Duke said he passed out too many

1:03:44

times, which like, if that's even remotely

1:03:47

true, it was so sad. You're fired.

1:03:49

Why? You keep passing out from exhaustion.

1:03:51

How dare you? I mean, wouldn't be

1:03:54

the worst firing in Hollywood's history. Heinrich

1:03:56

said it was because he wouldn't stop

1:03:58

kickboxing. Basically, like, he just insisted that

1:04:00

the predator move like he did and

1:04:03

would not accept directions from anybody else.

1:04:05

Okay, that one, I believe. simply like

1:04:07

nobody liked the suit, including the studio.

1:04:09

So McTernon shows the suit footage to

1:04:12

the studio and to Silver and it's

1:04:14

like, this isn't working. Like we need

1:04:16

a different suit. And so production is

1:04:18

halted. The studio shuts down production. They've

1:04:21

got Arnold Schwarzenegger, an in-demand action star,

1:04:23

you know, the risk of shutting out

1:04:25

of production is always, can you align

1:04:27

the schedules of the actors? So you

1:04:30

can actually start it back up. So

1:04:32

this is a very risky move right

1:04:34

now. But it was also a big

1:04:36

blessing in disguise. Dan, can you conceive

1:04:39

of any advantage it might have to

1:04:41

be able to take a break in

1:04:43

the middle or two-thirds of the way

1:04:46

through production? Well, you said that the

1:04:48

weather was not cooperating, so to imagine

1:04:50

maybe they got their lush green jungle

1:04:52

by the time they were ready to

1:04:55

go again. They do have a location

1:04:57

shift, which does help them. But the

1:04:59

bigger advantage, and actually something that is

1:05:01

built in to certain action films now,

1:05:04

is actually how to beat to edit

1:05:06

the film together, at least a rough

1:05:08

cut. That's always a good thing too,

1:05:10

yeah. So they were able to put

1:05:13

a rough cut together to see what's

1:05:15

working, what's not working, is there anything

1:05:17

they need to pick up? And they

1:05:19

actually screened it for Fox President of

1:05:22

Production, Leonard, it's got good screen presence.

1:05:24

We just got to figure out how

1:05:26

to get this monster right. Enter Stan

1:05:29

Winston. Oh, the great. The great Stan

1:05:31

Winston. Right. So Stan Winston had worked

1:05:33

with Schwarzenegger and James Cameron on the

1:05:35

Terminator. And I would argue he'd done

1:05:38

some of his best work in 1986

1:05:40

on a Fox film, which is, of

1:05:42

course, James Cameron's aliens. One of just,

1:05:44

I mean, I think they really perfected

1:05:47

the xenomorphs look in that film. So

1:05:49

good. So. Rick Baker actually was approached

1:05:51

by the production again because he had

1:05:53

a connection to silver, but Winston won

1:05:56

the job. So from fall of 86

1:05:58

through the winter of 87, Winston took

1:06:00

on the task of designing and creating

1:06:02

a new predator. At the same time,

1:06:05

his studio was doing all of the

1:06:07

work for the Monster Squad, which was

1:06:09

extensive, and Shane Black had written, as

1:06:12

we discussed, and he was in pre-production

1:06:14

for his directorial debut, and another 80s

1:06:16

movie you probably weren't allowed to see,

1:06:18

but actually I am kind of a

1:06:21

fan of, Pumpkin Head. Oh, that's what

1:06:23

I call a blockbuster movie. It's a

1:06:25

movie that I saw on the shelf

1:06:27

at Blockbuster, but I don't think I've

1:06:30

actually ever watched. It's not great, but

1:06:32

it is fun. And I love Lance

1:06:34

Hendrickson, and I'll kind of watch anything

1:06:36

he's in. So it's a good movie.

1:06:39

And it's got a great monster suit

1:06:41

in it. The actual pumpkin head is

1:06:43

very well-designed. So Winston's crew was working

1:06:45

seven days a week to make all

1:06:48

of these suits and heads, trying to

1:06:50

find something that works. And what's really

1:06:52

interesting is that a few of the

1:06:55

artists have said that over the years

1:06:57

fans have pointed out elements of the

1:06:59

predator's design that they particularly like, and

1:07:01

they're often elements that were conceived to

1:07:04

hide rips and hold the suit together

1:07:06

at the last minute. And one of

1:07:08

my favorite elements, the predator's mess shirt,

1:07:10

which just makes him a drag icon

1:07:13

in my mind, and it was also

1:07:15

made out of decorative fish nets from

1:07:17

Spencer Gifts, was nearly nixed by Winston

1:07:19

before getting into the film. Well, it's

1:07:22

interesting because Commando also had its own

1:07:24

mesh shirt thing, which I think adds

1:07:26

a lot to the memorability of that

1:07:28

character. Well, so Winston himself wanted to

1:07:31

nix the mesh shirt, but one of

1:07:33

his designers said, no, no, no, no,

1:07:35

no. It makes him look more human,

1:07:38

right? He's wearing this type of costuming.

1:07:40

I don't really fully understand the logic.

1:07:42

Winston didn't want to do it because

1:07:44

he loved the paint job. on the

1:07:47

abdomen that they done, which is remarkable.

1:07:49

It's kind of like an alligator belly

1:07:51

that they gave him. It is, yeah.

1:07:53

But a few days later, that designer

1:07:56

overheard Winston telling Joel Silver, quote, now

1:07:58

look at the mesh. You see how

1:08:00

smart it makes him. He's intelligent. So

1:08:02

Winston. Welcome to Hollywood, as afraid in

1:08:05

Hollywood as well as anyone. Now at

1:08:07

the time Winston's artists apparently according to

1:08:09

Howard Berger one of the members of

1:08:11

the team recalled how predator was kind

1:08:14

of viewed as the red-headed stepchild of

1:08:16

the company. Everyone else wanted to work

1:08:18

on Monster Squad and nobody thought that

1:08:21

predator was going to be a hit.

1:08:23

It was kind of like we covered

1:08:25

Shrek and everybody at Dreamworks wanted to

1:08:27

be on Prince of Egypt and nobody

1:08:30

wanted to be on Shrek and of

1:08:32

course we know now which one eclipsed

1:08:34

the other. So ultimately, the most famous

1:08:36

aspects of the final design came from

1:08:39

two places. Dan, do you know, like,

1:08:41

what would you describe as the two

1:08:43

most famous aspects of Predator's actual final

1:08:45

design? Well, we have the pincer mouth,

1:08:48

obviously. The mandibles. The mandibles? Yep, that's

1:08:50

one, 100% And then, I mean, I

1:08:52

would imagine that the... I wouldn't call

1:08:54

them dreadlocks because obviously culturally but it's

1:08:57

the the hair or whatever kind of

1:08:59

attachment to the head there you know

1:09:01

that gives it that distinct profile I

1:09:04

would just go I They're basically dreadlocks.

1:09:06

They are basically dreadlocks. Yes. So, so

1:09:08

the dress, so Stan Winston saw a

1:09:10

drawing of a Rostafarian warrior with dreadlocks

1:09:13

in Joel Silver's office, and that inspired

1:09:15

the alien dreadlocks. And then while sketching

1:09:17

ideas during a flight to Japan, and

1:09:19

this is kind of the most famous

1:09:22

apocryphal story of predator, I would argue,

1:09:24

James Cameron suggested to Winston, if you

1:09:26

added mandibles. to the creature's face, that

1:09:28

would be something interesting that no one

1:09:31

had seen before. So James Cameron actually

1:09:33

had one of the biggest influences on

1:09:35

that creature design. Man, what doesn't James

1:09:37

Cameron have his fingers in? I know,

1:09:40

we've covered him a lot on this

1:09:42

podcast, and he is a unique... mind

1:09:44

and his ability to create kind of

1:09:46

new and interesting riffs on things long

1:09:49

established I would say I mean and

1:09:51

I don't want to sidetrack it's too

1:09:53

much but one of the things I

1:09:56

like about James Cameron is he's he's

1:09:58

so arrogant but he owns it so

1:10:00

much is just like you know people

1:10:02

like oh well you know it's so

1:10:05

stupid you spent this you spent all

1:10:07

this money on this avatar movie it's

1:10:09

gonna have to make two billion dollars

1:10:11

to break even he's like yeah so

1:10:14

I don't care it will screw you

1:10:16

yeah like wow all right and he

1:10:18

backs it up I agree I don't

1:10:20

know if I would necessarily want to

1:10:23

work with him you know in certain

1:10:25

capacities but I'm so glad he works

1:10:27

yeah and makes things for us yeah

1:10:29

as an audience so Joel silver speaking

1:10:32

of outside egos did contribute a really

1:10:34

great idea to the final design. Initially,

1:10:36

the texture of the helmet is what

1:10:39

was used for the alien's face. Joel

1:10:41

Silver said, no, no, no, no, no.

1:10:43

Give him an actual helmet and then

1:10:45

have him pull it off to reveal

1:10:48

the alien's face at the end of

1:10:50

the film. So you think you've seen

1:10:52

the alien's face only to have one

1:10:54

more reveal in the third act. I

1:10:57

think that's pretty fun and smart. And

1:10:59

sets up one of the... I think

1:11:01

the biggest laugh in the movie, which

1:11:03

is Arnold's line there, which is just

1:11:06

so well delivered by Schwarzenegger. You're one

1:11:08

ugly motherfucker. Really, really good. Now, of

1:11:10

course, Silver was not ever satisfied, and

1:11:12

at 3 a.m. one morning demanded that

1:11:15

gas come out of the tubes of

1:11:17

the helmet when it was released and

1:11:19

removed. One of the text was able

1:11:22

to Jerry rig it. Again. Might have

1:11:24

been a ridiculous request. It's great. It

1:11:26

looks great. It looks great. Yep. Yep.

1:11:28

The work on the final suit is

1:11:31

really, really remarkable. It's a fully mechanical

1:11:33

head, has moving tusks and mandibles, and

1:11:35

a fully animatronic face, and yet the

1:11:37

eyes look human and real and compelling

1:11:40

and a motive. And a lot of

1:11:42

that has to do with the new

1:11:44

performer they brought in to play Predator.

1:11:46

And that is, of course, Kevin Peter

1:11:49

Hall, who is seven feet two inches

1:11:51

tall. He towered over the film stars,

1:11:53

and he was fresh off of a

1:11:55

suit-based gig playing Sasquatch. and Harry and

1:11:58

the Hendersons. Oh boy. He didn't want

1:12:00

to get typecast as someone who could

1:12:02

only act in sweet movies, so he

1:12:05

agreed to do predator given its violent

1:12:07

nature. And then when he came

1:12:09

in, he and McTernan agreed to

1:12:11

shift away from the animalistic kind

1:12:13

of monkey jumping around performance of

1:12:15

Jean-Claude Van Dam and more into

1:12:17

the sophisticated intelligent hunter that we get

1:12:19

in the final film. So it

1:12:22

initially was something more like getting

1:12:24

hunted by a gorilla, and it

1:12:26

actually went back more towards that

1:12:28

dilatant hunter vibe, I would argue,

1:12:31

that we described at the beginning

1:12:33

of this recording. So production resumes

1:12:35

in early 1987 near Palenke, Mexico,

1:12:37

which is, as you mentioned, Dan,

1:12:39

a better location. More jungle, more

1:12:41

green, more lush. So most of

1:12:43

the movie's been shot, they have

1:12:45

about a third left. They have

1:12:47

the third act and the missing

1:12:49

predator shots from the first two-thirds

1:12:52

of the movie. It's supposed to be

1:12:54

two to three weeks of reshoots, and

1:12:56

it took nearly three months with additional

1:12:59

shots needed on green screen in Los

1:13:01

Angeles. Kevin Peter Hall was very hot

1:13:03

in this suit for hours at a time.

1:13:05

When shooting the lead up to the final

1:13:07

sequence where they're crawling out of the water

1:13:09

he noticed that Arnold had exited the water

1:13:11

covered in leaches Leaving him terrified that leaches

1:13:14

had gotten inside his suit and would be

1:13:16

sucking on his blood until he could take

1:13:18

it off at the end of the day

1:13:20

Speaking of that sequence according to Hall

1:13:22

the local effects team that prepped

1:13:24

the explosive charges in his shoulder

1:13:27

mounted gun. So right there's that

1:13:29

scene at the end there. He

1:13:31

can't see Arnold and he fires

1:13:33

like nine shots into the jungle

1:13:35

kind of in frustration Yeah Well,

1:13:37

they prepped those explosive charges in

1:13:39

the gun the night before. And

1:13:41

so overnight, the explosives compressed. So

1:13:43

the next day, he gets up,

1:13:45

performs the actions, is directed, and

1:13:48

then the charges are initiated, and

1:13:50

instead of going nine, one at

1:13:52

a time, all nine fire at

1:13:54

once. The gun on his shoulder

1:13:57

exploded. Shrapnel flew

1:13:59

everywhere. was enveloped in a ball

1:14:01

of fire, but thanks to the thick

1:14:03

rubber of Stan Winston's suit, he was

1:14:06

unharmed. So had he not been wearing

1:14:08

like head-to-toe body armor, it would have

1:14:10

been very bad. Especially on your next

1:14:13

to your neck, you know, the neck

1:14:15

is kind of a sensitive area. You

1:14:17

don't want to do too many bad

1:14:19

things around the neck. Things can go

1:14:22

very bad very quickly. Your neck, your

1:14:24

temple, you know, your eyes, your eyes,

1:14:26

your ears. Yeah, no good. There were

1:14:29

also a couple of other important moments

1:14:31

that were captured, not the least of

1:14:33

which was the incredible Carl Weatherds Arnold

1:14:35

Schwarzenegger handshake where we zoom in on

1:14:38

the bulging biceps. The best meme, possibly

1:14:40

meme format of the last 10 years.

1:14:42

The best. Apparently that was another Joel

1:14:45

Silver special. So credit to Joel Silver.

1:14:47

And another benefit was that they ran

1:14:49

out of time and so they could

1:14:51

not shoot the originally scripted ending where

1:14:54

Schwarzenegger goes into the alien ship. So

1:14:56

that scene had to be cut and

1:14:58

McTernon was able to finish the movie

1:15:01

the way that he wanted to. Now

1:15:03

question, you said you've read the first

1:15:05

version of the script, does it include

1:15:07

the scene where they go into the

1:15:10

ship at the end? Yeah, yeah, it

1:15:12

does. Is there an old gun involved

1:15:14

in the original editing? I didn't notice

1:15:17

it. Yeah, are you referencing the the

1:15:19

prey predator to you and then like

1:15:21

connection to prey with that Dan Tractenberg

1:15:23

used? Yes, exactly, exactly, yes. Yeah, I

1:15:26

didn't see that, but I can confirm

1:15:28

that there was an invisible spaceship and

1:15:30

that the predator had Anna who dies

1:15:33

in this version, and Ramirez's skin stretched

1:15:35

out on drying racks like a hunter

1:15:37

after skinning his prey, and that it

1:15:39

actually ends with matheny in this draft,

1:15:42

not Dutch. picking up the predator's weapon

1:15:44

and effectively using it against him, blowing

1:15:46

up the predator's head, and then ultimately

1:15:49

his spaceship. So you lose the like

1:15:51

amazing self-destruct moment that ends the finished

1:15:53

film. Now, Schwartz and Ager has other

1:15:55

commitments, so he flies off, you know,

1:15:58

to shoot his next movie. I think

1:16:00

Red Heat. Red Heat. Red Heat. Red

1:16:02

Heat. Yeah. The weird Chicago. Or kindergarten,

1:16:05

copper. No, that was way later. That

1:16:07

was 90, I think. Yeah. But it

1:16:09

was right around them. Yeah. So post-production

1:16:11

begins, and one of the biggest tasks

1:16:14

that they have is to make the

1:16:16

movie sound like a jungle. So. The

1:16:18

backgrounds and dialogue from a lot of

1:16:21

the film were unusable because it was

1:16:23

shot near a freeway in Sporta Vallarta,

1:16:25

and so they couldn't use that. For

1:16:27

the background sound, they used rainforest recordings

1:16:30

by Andy Whiskey's, which had been made

1:16:32

for another movie, and according to sound

1:16:34

supervisor David Stone, the heavy footprints of

1:16:36

the film's macho men was handled by

1:16:39

two women. So Foley artists Vanessa Ammon,

1:16:41

who had worked on platoon and Robin

1:16:43

Harlan, were virtuosic in their ability to

1:16:46

recreate the footsteps of soldiers. And they

1:16:48

did everybody's footsteps, from Shane Black to

1:16:50

Jesse Ventura. Every morning, they'd come into

1:16:52

the sound studio with bags of leaves,

1:16:55

put it down, and they would tackle

1:16:57

the marching soldiers. Pretty fun. I mean,

1:16:59

it just goes to show you if

1:17:02

you can be the best in your

1:17:04

field at one specific thing, you will

1:17:06

never want for work. He will always

1:17:08

have work to do. Exactly. The gunfire

1:17:11

had to be entirely replaced. The production

1:17:13

sound was too high frequency. It was

1:17:15

accurate, but it didn't sound impressive. And

1:17:18

of course, all of the sounds of

1:17:20

the creature needed to be created. So

1:17:22

they did this electronic, organic hybrid. So

1:17:24

they did a lot of synth work

1:17:27

to create the sound of the heartbeat.

1:17:29

They also recorded sponges, squishing, and odd

1:17:31

rhythms. You have the clicking, almost cat-like

1:17:34

sound of the predator language. And of

1:17:36

course, the... Whippins down that they do

1:17:38

when they cut into predator vision One

1:17:40

of the most iconic and memorable effects

1:17:43

from the entire film I love it

1:17:45

was apparently It's a stereo effect created

1:17:47

with an analog eight track and just

1:17:50

really a lot of wonderful creative work

1:17:52

done by the sound team on this

1:17:54

film. So good. And it also grounds

1:17:56

the visual effects in a big way.

1:17:59

I feel like without the corresponding audio,

1:18:01

those transitions would feel really jarring, but

1:18:03

the fact that they gave whiplash to

1:18:06

the whiplash really sells the effect. Well,

1:18:08

and they bring that sound in so

1:18:10

fast, especially the first couple times, it

1:18:12

almost works like as a jump scare.

1:18:15

Like you're just sort of jolted into

1:18:17

this other. Yeah. point of view and

1:18:19

it feels so alien and no pun

1:18:22

intended and different that yeah that's that's

1:18:24

adds such a small thing that adds

1:18:26

so much to the movie. Well and

1:18:28

you know we kind of established in

1:18:31

slasher films using the antagonist POV, you

1:18:33

know, as early as, well, you know,

1:18:35

peeping Tom and then you've got Halloween,

1:18:38

but had had never really then added

1:18:40

another layer, you know, of effect or

1:18:42

transition on top of that POV reveal.

1:18:44

And so it's really fun to see

1:18:47

that in this film. Obviously, they do

1:18:49

different variations of it. You know, Fincher

1:18:51

does it with an alien, an alien

1:18:54

three. Yeah. So Alan Silvestries brought in

1:18:56

to score the film. He had a

1:18:58

connection to Joel Joel Silver. four major

1:19:00

themes, you know, it's kind of wall-papered

1:19:03

with music at the end of the

1:19:05

day. I've always felt that, and I

1:19:07

love Alan Silvestri, but you could tell

1:19:10

he had a lot to do because

1:19:12

I feel that there are a lot

1:19:14

of similarities between Predator and Back to

1:19:16

the Future. The scores are very, very

1:19:19

similar. Not necessarily in the main themes,

1:19:21

but a lot of the underlying themes

1:19:23

and stuff, it's, it's, there's a lot

1:19:26

of... common ground there. Yeah, I think

1:19:28

like Hans Zimmer sort of like Gladiator

1:19:30

to Pirates of the Caribbean to the

1:19:32

Rock, you know, sort of thing where

1:19:35

there's a lot of repetition used in

1:19:37

the in the underscore of a lot

1:19:39

of those films too. So yeah, you

1:19:42

find you find your main theme and

1:19:44

then you kind of paper out the

1:19:46

rest. Yeah. So the combination of all

1:19:48

these effects has resulted in a film

1:19:51

that's testing very well with audiences above

1:19:53

90% according to Arnold Schwarzenegger. And now

1:19:55

they just have to release the thing

1:19:58

into the thing into the wild. So

1:20:08

June 12th 1987, Predator opens wide.

1:20:10

It has the second best opening

1:20:12

of the year, earning $12 million.

1:20:14

Unfortunately, that's a distant second to

1:20:16

Beverly Hills Cop II, which opened

1:20:18

at $26 million. Predator did just

1:20:20

fine, bringing in $60 million in

1:20:22

the United States and Canada, and

1:20:24

$100 million worldwide. Arnold Schwarzenegger later

1:20:26

claimed that Jesse Ventura's wife started

1:20:28

crying when he got killed in

1:20:30

the movie and that Jim Thomas

1:20:32

says Shane's black mother walked out

1:20:34

of the film when he was

1:20:36

killed. Now Shane may have told

1:20:38

her to do that in protest

1:20:40

of how early he was killed.

1:20:42

So audiences embrace the film pretty

1:20:44

early on, but critics, not so

1:20:46

much. And our audience I think

1:20:48

sometimes will reach out and point

1:20:51

out like, you said this got

1:20:53

mixed reviews, but it has a

1:20:55

90% on rotten tomatoes now. Well,

1:20:57

because it's retroactively retroactively. I was

1:20:59

born in 1983, so I was

1:21:01

four years old when this came

1:21:03

out. I can tell you that

1:21:05

up until really around the time

1:21:07

Arnold Schwarzenegger, let's say the early

1:21:09

2000s, maybe going into even like,

1:21:11

you know, the early 2010s, predator

1:21:13

was not regarded as this. classic

1:21:15

80s movie. It had moments that

1:21:17

everybody loved, but the love for

1:21:19

Predator has really been something of

1:21:21

the 21st century. It was not

1:21:23

always seen as this like gem.

1:21:25

of the 80s. It was that

1:21:27

it sort of had a corny

1:21:29

reputation when I was growing up

1:21:31

is this kind of like cheesy,

1:21:33

which it is, but the appreciation

1:21:35

came later. You're exactly right. And

1:21:37

so the big thing is like

1:21:39

rotten tomatoes is not capturing the

1:21:41

heartbeat of contemporaneous feedback, but we

1:21:43

can look back and see what

1:21:45

was said. Variety called it a

1:21:47

slightly above average actioner that tries

1:21:50

to compensate for tissue thin plot

1:21:52

with ever more grisly death sequences

1:21:54

and impressive special New York Times

1:21:56

called the movie alternately grizzly and

1:21:58

dull with few surprises, though the

1:22:00

creatures face, when finally revealed, has

1:22:02

an interesting claw configuration where its

1:22:04

mouth ought to be. The LA

1:22:06

Times called it arguable, I know,

1:22:08

arguably one of the emptiest, feeblest,

1:22:10

most derivative scripts ever made as

1:22:12

a major Hollywood studio. However, in

1:22:14

an alternate take, the Hollywood reporter

1:22:16

praised the film, calling it a

1:22:18

well-made old-style assault movie and... highlighted

1:22:20

Schwarzenegger's fearless presence as a high

1:22:22

point for the film. That's good.

1:22:24

And there was a brief awards

1:22:26

run for Predator in the special

1:22:28

effects category. However, this was slightly

1:22:30

controversial because nobody knew exactly what

1:22:32

to nominate this work under. Would

1:22:34

it be makeup for all of

1:22:36

the practical effects worn by Kevin

1:22:38

Peter Hall, or would it be

1:22:40

visual effects for all of the

1:22:42

mat work done by Joel Heinek

1:22:44

and the special effects team? In

1:22:47

the end, it was done, it

1:22:49

was nominated under visual effects, where

1:22:51

it lost to inner space. A

1:22:53

movie I like quite a bit.

1:22:55

I mean, that's, that's, I mean,

1:22:57

the sheer volume of effects in

1:22:59

inner space, that's, that's tough competition.

1:23:01

Yeah. And in an odd twist

1:23:03

of fate, Rick Baker won makeup

1:23:05

for Harry and the Henderson's, portrayed,

1:23:07

predators, enduring legacy. And increasingly Sterling

1:23:09

legacy. And of course, two of

1:23:11

its performers went on to be

1:23:13

state governors, Jesse Ventura, Arnold Schwarzenegger,

1:23:15

Sonny Landon ran for governor of

1:23:17

Kentucky, I believe, and lost. McTyranin

1:23:19

would become one of the most

1:23:21

in-demand action directors of the late

1:23:23

80s and early 90s, as we

1:23:25

discussed, until his career eventually basically

1:23:27

imploded with the 13th warrior, a

1:23:29

film that we need to cover.

1:23:31

Jean-Claad Van Dam would break out

1:23:33

in Bloodsport. And the franchise would

1:23:35

endure sequels and crossovers alike. And

1:23:37

of course, its biggest technological innovation

1:23:39

would end... up being its influence

1:23:41

on video games and other films

1:23:43

with the way it developed active

1:23:46

camouflage as a concept which I

1:23:48

think has become universally accepted as

1:23:50

this is a thing and this

1:23:52

is how we do it. Absolutely.

1:23:54

Now I do have a question

1:23:56

and please I don't know if

1:23:58

this has come up in your

1:24:00

research but it's something I've always

1:24:02

wondered. I have one huge problem

1:24:04

with the movie which is that

1:24:06

it spoils what's happening. Before the

1:24:08

movie like the first shot of

1:24:10

the movie is an alien spaceship

1:24:12

lands on earth and then all

1:24:14

of the suspense out of what

1:24:16

like if you don't know the

1:24:18

premise If I'm showing it to

1:24:20

somebody for the first time that

1:24:22

would be such a great reveal

1:24:24

to know what's going on and

1:24:26

yet it's spoiled Immediately, and I

1:24:28

think it's objectively a mistake with

1:24:30

the movie. I was wondering in

1:24:32

your research if it's ever been

1:24:34

revealed Who made that decision if

1:24:36

it was an audience thing? People

1:24:38

want to know what's going on

1:24:40

right away. Because it seems to

1:24:42

be, let's be fair, it seems

1:24:45

like a Joel Silver note. And

1:24:47

he's made a lot of good

1:24:49

decisions, but I think that was

1:24:51

a bad one. Yeah. So what's

1:24:53

interesting is that shot, which is,

1:24:55

by the way, a. 100% rip

1:24:57

off of the first shot of

1:24:59

the thing. Yes, absolutely. It's literally

1:25:01

the exact same opening. Yes. So

1:25:03

it never came up in my

1:25:05

research, but what I can say

1:25:07

is the July 27th 1985 version

1:25:09

of the script does not open

1:25:11

with that shot. And I would

1:25:13

actually, I'm so glad you brought

1:25:15

this up, I would like to

1:25:17

read you the scene direction. Exterior,

1:25:19

jungle horizon, day, through a collage

1:25:21

of shimmering heat waves. Obviously evoking

1:25:23

the effect of invisibility will do

1:25:25

later, a dark other-worldly object drops

1:25:27

into view, heading slowly toward us,

1:25:29

floating as if suspended by the

1:25:31

rising heat of the jungle. Continuing

1:25:33

to approach, the shimmering object resolves

1:25:35

assuming the form of a military

1:25:37

assault helicopter. Its rotors strobing in

1:25:39

the sunlight. It continues on, and

1:25:41

this is the arrival of, at

1:25:44

the time his name was Mathany,

1:25:46

and it was changed to Dutch.

1:25:48

It was a misdirect, obviously, intended

1:25:50

to evoke the idea of an

1:25:52

alien spacecraft coming down, but it

1:25:54

was ultimately revealed to be a

1:25:56

military helicopter, and I think would

1:25:58

answer exactly your problem with the

1:26:00

final film. Yes. I mean, I

1:26:02

don't want to pin the blame

1:26:04

on Joel Silver. Maybe it wasn't

1:26:06

Joel. It feels like a studio

1:26:08

note. Like someone in the studio

1:26:10

is like, listen, these audiences, they're

1:26:12

not going to have the patience

1:26:14

for you to reveal what's going

1:26:16

on. You need to tell them

1:26:18

right away it's aliens or else

1:26:20

they're going to be out the

1:26:22

door, which is dumb, but that's

1:26:24

what studios think of the average

1:26:26

person. I agree. It also kind

1:26:28

of, there's not a single other

1:26:30

shot like it in the entire

1:26:32

film. It's clear, it's shot inside

1:26:34

a studio using miniatures. It reeks

1:26:36

of, it was achieved in post-production.

1:26:38

I did not come, I did

1:26:41

not come across it. I don't

1:26:43

know what point it was inserted,

1:26:45

but it was clearly a reaction

1:26:47

to a note at some point.

1:26:49

A test audience, something, something, something.

1:26:51

Okay, I had to get that

1:26:53

off my chest. It's a great

1:26:55

point. I'm actually really glad you

1:26:57

brought it up because I wanted

1:26:59

to get to it earlier, but

1:27:01

I skipped over it. Now at

1:27:03

the end of these episodes, Stan,

1:27:05

Stan, I like to try to

1:27:07

draw some sort of some sort

1:27:09

of lesson from some sort of

1:27:11

lesson from the film from the

1:27:13

film from the film. I kind

1:27:15

of earlier talked about how Arnold

1:27:17

seemed to understand that the filmmaking

1:27:19

process is iterative, much in the

1:27:21

way that, you know, body building

1:27:23

is. And it's only through the

1:27:25

notes process that you do get

1:27:27

to some of the best decisions

1:27:29

in the film, even though films

1:27:31

can be noted to death. But

1:27:33

instead, I would like to end

1:27:35

today's episode, before we get to

1:27:37

what went right, was a quote

1:27:40

from El Pedia Carrillo, who when

1:27:42

asked what she learned about working

1:27:44

with Arnold, said, Quote, the only

1:27:46

thing I learned from making Predator

1:27:48

was to be able to survive

1:27:50

among a bunch of horny, macho,

1:27:52

stupid, muscle men. I am very

1:27:54

proud of that. End quote. We'll

1:27:56

let Alpedia have the final word

1:27:58

on this film, since she. was

1:28:00

there. Agreed. All right Dan, we always like

1:28:02

to end with a little segment called

1:28:04

What Went Right. You can pick any

1:28:07

element of this film, doesn't matter what

1:28:09

it is, that in your mind, went

1:28:11

particularly right in this instance, and if

1:28:14

you'd like to take a minute, I'm

1:28:16

happy to go first entirely up to

1:28:18

you. Yes, I'll let you go first

1:28:20

while I ponder, because there are legitimately

1:28:23

several things that I could that I

1:28:25

could bring up. Sounds good. I would like

1:28:27

to give my what went right. God, there's

1:28:30

actually a couple now that

1:28:32

you mention it, that I really want

1:28:34

to give it to. I would like

1:28:36

to give my what went right

1:28:39

in this instance to Kevin

1:28:41

Peter Hall, who I think performers

1:28:43

in suits don't get enough

1:28:45

credit for the physicality

1:28:48

that they bring to their characters.

1:28:50

And in the third act, You

1:28:52

feel a connection between

1:28:55

him and Arnold Schwarzenegger,

1:28:57

almost a mutual respect,

1:28:59

even if there's some disdain

1:29:01

and disgust there. And he is physically

1:29:04

impressive in a way that

1:29:06

makes Arnold feel vulnerable in

1:29:08

a way that he's been

1:29:10

invulnerable throughout the entire film.

1:29:12

So this goes out to, you know... All of

1:29:14

those incredible suited performers, I'm thinking about,

1:29:16

I don't know his name, the Slovenian

1:29:19

basketball player at the end of Alien

1:29:21

Romulus, whatever you think about that choice

1:29:23

to go full slender man, it's pretty

1:29:25

cool. The effect that they finally achieved.

1:29:28

So mine goes to Kevin Peter Hall,

1:29:30

and I also love Harry and the

1:29:32

Henderson. So it's a. Shout out to

1:29:34

that film as well for imbuing the

1:29:36

predator with something alien and yet recognizable

1:29:39

at the same time. I like that.

1:29:41

You know, mine may seem obvious, but

1:29:43

I actually feel very passionately about this.

1:29:45

I'm going to go with Arnold, because

1:29:48

here's the thing. Again, growing up

1:29:50

in the 80s and 90s as

1:29:52

I did, for a very long

1:29:54

time, the stereotype of Arnold Schwarzenegger

1:29:56

is that he was dumb. He was

1:29:58

not the elder statesman. that we

1:30:00

see now, he had not been

1:30:02

governor, he was an action movie

1:30:04

star, and I think because of

1:30:07

the accent and some of the

1:30:09

movies that he chose to be

1:30:11

in, there was always the stereotypes,

1:30:13

the Hans and Fran stereotypes that

1:30:15

aren't Schwarzenegger, wasn't very smart, and

1:30:17

Arnold Schwarzenegger is an incredibly intelligent

1:30:19

person, I think that because his

1:30:21

English skills were improving the people,

1:30:23

and because he was a bodybuilder

1:30:25

that people, that people had a

1:30:28

certain... impression of him, but I

1:30:30

mean even when you talk about

1:30:32

the pitch, you know, she had

1:30:34

a naked hot tub with the

1:30:36

cigars, but he has always approached

1:30:38

acting and being a movie star

1:30:40

with the same focus and seriousness

1:30:42

as he did body building. And

1:30:44

when you go back and watch

1:30:47

this movie, yes, it's cheesy, yes,

1:30:49

it's, you know, it has those

1:30:51

elements to it, but Arnold is

1:30:53

never, never really winks at the

1:30:55

camera. He takes it and he

1:30:57

understands as somebody who even at

1:30:59

that time understood the craft of

1:31:01

filmmaking and what he wanted to

1:31:03

bring to it like we laugh

1:31:05

at get to the chopper now

1:31:08

that isn't That doesn't work if

1:31:10

he is not 100,000% committed to

1:31:12

the drama of that moment. And

1:31:14

yet at the same time, he

1:31:16

knows when to bring a little

1:31:18

comedy to the one ugly motherfuck.

1:31:20

Like that line, he knows that

1:31:22

it's going to draw a laugh

1:31:24

so he allows himself a little

1:31:27

bit of that sort of almost

1:31:29

looking at the camera with the

1:31:31

audience. his commitment as an actor,

1:31:33

and I don't even necessarily think

1:31:35

that he's a bad actor. I

1:31:37

know as an art source singer

1:31:39

can't act. Again, I think it's

1:31:41

because of the accent and because

1:31:43

his diction isn't what everybody else

1:31:45

is, but I think that he

1:31:48

is actually a great action movie

1:31:50

star, and I think that he

1:31:52

always understands what character he's playing.

1:31:54

He almost always understands the tone

1:31:56

of the movie. Now, sometimes he's

1:31:58

given a bad script. A

1:32:01

lot of actors can't work

1:32:03

their way out of a

1:32:05

bad script. But I would

1:32:07

argue that I've never seen

1:32:09

Arnold Schwarzenegger in a well-written

1:32:11

movie and walked away saying,

1:32:13

oh, he was really bad

1:32:15

in that. He always knows

1:32:17

what the assignment is. And

1:32:19

this movie, I think, almost

1:32:21

as much as any other

1:32:23

movie, he understood the assignment.

1:32:25

He knew the tone of

1:32:27

the movie. He understood what

1:32:29

he had to bring to

1:32:31

it as a character and

1:32:33

as a lead and as

1:32:35

an action star and he

1:32:37

nailed it five out of

1:32:39

five across the board. So

1:32:41

while it's well, you know,

1:32:43

it may seem obvious to

1:32:45

me to say like the

1:32:47

store of the movie went

1:32:49

right. It's only because Arnold

1:32:51

Schwarzenegger understood the movie and

1:32:53

everything else, all the chaos

1:32:55

around him, you know, that's

1:32:57

all stuff that gets sorted

1:32:59

out by the studio. But

1:33:01

I've always said that I

1:33:03

think that Arnold is very

1:33:05

underrated. as an actor and

1:33:07

as a professional who takes

1:33:09

what he does seriously because

1:33:11

he does and I think

1:33:13

he should be respected for

1:33:15

it. Incredibly well said Dan

1:33:17

better than I could have

1:33:19

said it and I couldn't

1:33:21

agree more. Dan, thank you

1:33:23

so much for taking the

1:33:25

time to join us on

1:33:27

what went wrong today. It's

1:33:29

been such a treat talking

1:33:31

predator for all of our

1:33:33

listeners who I'm sure are

1:33:35

going to want to hear

1:33:37

more from you. Where can

1:33:39

they go to get that

1:33:41

fix? Yeah, absolutely. Well, first

1:33:43

and foremost, I'm on YouTube

1:33:45

at youtube.com/Dan Murrell Movies. I've

1:33:47

got at least a few

1:33:49

videos out every week covering

1:33:51

box office, covering everything you

1:33:53

could possibly imagine. And I

1:33:55

don't do a whole lot

1:33:57

of social media. I am

1:33:59

on Instagram. I am on

1:34:01

Instagram. I'm on Blue Sky.

1:34:03

I'm on threads. You can

1:34:05

just search for Dan Murrell.

1:34:07

I'm sure I'll pop up.

1:34:09

And I also have a

1:34:11

Patreon page if you're talking

1:34:13

about movies. Fantastic. Thanks again

1:34:15

Dan. We hope to survive

1:34:17

the snow in Arkansas. We'll

1:34:19

see. It's dicey here when

1:34:21

it snows. We're not used

1:34:24

to it. All right, everybody.

1:34:26

That concludes our coverage of

1:34:28

Predator. Won't be the last

1:34:30

time we've heard from the

1:34:32

titular hunter. Next up, Snow

1:34:34

White and the Seven Dwarves,

1:34:36

the groundbreaking 1937 animated film.

1:34:38

I am so excited to

1:34:40

talk all things, animation, and

1:34:42

Walt Disney. It's going to

1:34:44