0:01

Well, hi it's it's me, Louis Dreyfus. We're

0:03

We're back for three of of Than Me.

0:05

Me. We've got so much more

0:07

wisdom to share from the magnificent

0:09

old ladies featured this season. To To

0:11

celebrate the start of season three,

0:13

we've added some groovy new items

0:16

to our Wiser Than Me merchandise

0:18

collection. Head over to our our

0:20

shop to check out all of

0:22

our great stuff, like a classic a

0:24

Than Me Than Me bag, a kitchen

0:26

towel with my grandma delicious peanut butter

0:29

cookie recipe featured on it. on it,

0:31

and a brand new gorgeous Wiser

0:33

Than Me notebook capture all of

0:35

this season's bits of wisdom.

0:37

Start shopping today by visiting

0:40

Wiser Wisdom in one place. We

0:42

just added these groovy hardcover

0:45

notebooks to our merch shop.

0:47

To buy yours, head over

0:49

to shop. To buy.com today. to

0:51

wiser than me shop.com

0:53

today. Lemonada. Just

0:58

a quick note before

1:00

we begin. This episode contains

1:02

discussion of sexual assault

1:04

and there is a brief

1:06

conversation about suicide. about If

1:08

you or someone you

1:10

know is in emotional distress

1:13

or contemplating suicide, you can

1:15

call or text you can call or

1:17

to access a trained crisis

1:19

counselor. Okay,

1:21

so we got invited to a

1:23

fancy friend's apartment in New York for

1:25

dinner York kind of thing The usually thing I'm

1:28

quite good at getting out of gracefully

1:30

But in this case it actually did

1:32

sound like a nice group and

1:34

I hadn't been around humans for a

1:36

bit group know because I've been working and

1:38

whatever and so off we went you know,

1:40

because I got seated and to a gentleman

1:42

whom I have met before I got

1:44

I've never really gentleman whom what the heck

1:46

I mean how bad can it be?

1:49

really cotton to, but what the heck, I

1:51

mean, how bad. Okay, so first of all, he

1:53

first of all, he

1:55

starts to butt into conversations

1:57

from all around the

1:59

table. The explaining. going pretty fucking

2:01

quickly, and we learned that apparently

2:03

he's an expert in everything. And

2:05

most of all, in making a

2:07

lot of money, which is just

2:09

so thrilling to hear about, again,

2:11

from another Ivy League educated white

2:13

guy who wouldn't know his own

2:15

privilege if it ran him over,

2:17

which it did several times. But

2:19

did it stop him from blow-viating?

2:22

Oh, no, no, it did not.

2:24

And like I said, you know

2:26

what, these were fancy friends and

2:28

they have a little balcony things

2:30

who are sitting outside. It was

2:32

a lovely early fall evening. And

2:34

as this guy is pontificating about

2:36

his latest trip to Dubai and

2:38

the rising value of something or

2:40

other, and I'm just praying that

2:42

dessert is coming so I can

2:44

get the hell out of there.

2:46

I started to notice this really

2:48

weird smell, right? I mean, it's

2:50

like this awful smell. And it's

2:52

very close by, and I'm trying

2:54

to identify it, and then it

2:56

hits me. Oh my

2:59

god, it's dog shit. This motherfucker is

3:01

not just completely full of shit, he

3:03

has stepped in shit. Okay? Dog shit.

3:05

What a tremendous justice this was, but

3:07

it was an awful stench. So dessert

3:09

comes and I hurry through it and

3:12

I make an excuse and we high

3:14

tail it out of there and that

3:16

dog crap smell follows us into the

3:18

elevator where I'm telling my husband about

3:20

how awful this guy was and then

3:22

the smell is with me straight out

3:24

into the street and it's still lingering

3:27

as I'm, you know, dotting the I's

3:29

and crossing the T's of my description

3:31

of this, let's just say it, asshole.

3:33

And it's not until we are literally

3:35

stepping into the cab that I realize

3:37

the dog shit is on my shoe.

3:39

Yeah. Here ended the lesson. not that

3:42

you be not judged

3:44

and all of

3:46

that, but my big

3:48

big was that when

3:50

you step in

3:52

dog crap step really

3:54

have to just throw

3:57

away the shoes throw

3:59

away the shoes. And my other

4:01

other big takeaway is

4:03

how much I

4:05

enjoy talking here to the

4:07

the wonderful wise on

4:09

on this show so

4:12

mean, it's so refreshing

4:14

and revitalizing for

4:16

me, and I hope

4:18

dear for you, too

4:20

too. So thank God, thank God then,

4:22

today we get

4:24

to talk to someone

4:27

who is not

4:29

full of shit But

4:31

is full of

4:33

wit and grace and

4:35

talent and wisdom wit

4:37

incomparable Rita and wisdom, the

4:39

incomparable Rita Moreno. I'm Julia Louis Dreyfus

4:42

and this is wiser than me, the

4:44

podcast where I and this

4:46

is wiser than

4:48

me the podcast where

4:50

I get schooled

4:52

by women who are

4:54

wiser than me me.

4:57

I Some

5:14

actors have a kind of motor

5:16

an energy in their performances

5:18

from from role to is kind of is

5:20

kind you know what I'm talking

5:22

about. It's like an what I'm talking

5:24

about? they bring to all their

5:26

characters bring to all their to

5:28

be totally alive to be totally impossibly

5:30

impossibly vibrant. Our guest today is an

5:32

actor like that time first

5:34

time I saw her she

5:36

was singing and dancing across

5:38

the screen as Anita in

5:40

West Side Story a movie that

5:42

came out the year. I in

5:44

was born The film was

5:46

shot in English with heavy

5:48

accents and she was she was

5:50

captivating to me to me the

5:52

bitter comedy of her killer

5:54

dance dance number the the unforgettable

5:57

gorgeous of of I Have

5:59

a Love. I can't even think

6:01

about it. It's so good. Knock

6:04

out stuff. And of course, she

6:06

won an Oscar for it. And

6:08

if it was compelling to me

6:11

when I saw it on TV

6:13

and reruns in the 70s, imagine

6:15

what it meant to Latino families

6:17

across this country and its territories

6:20

as they watched her in a

6:22

Spanish-dubbed version. For them, Rita Moreno

6:24

wasn't just a star. She was

6:27

their star. La Nuestra. Her extraordinary

6:29

career on stage in the movies

6:31

and on TV spans seven decades.

6:33

She was the first Latina to

6:36

win an Emmy. She has two,

6:38

actually. A Grammy, an Oscar, and

6:40

a Tony, the famous egot. At

6:43

a time when Latin people were

6:45

especially marginalized in Hollywood, Rita fought

6:47

and continues to fight for roles

6:50

that portrayed Latina's with dignity and

6:52

depth. To put this into perspective,

6:54

despite being the largest minority group

6:56

in the U.S., Latinos still remain

6:59

underrepresented in the media. Let that

7:01

sink in for a second. If

7:03

it's bad now, can you imagine

7:06

the shit-shell it must have been

7:08

like back then? She has channeled

7:10

that strength into becoming a trailblazer

7:12

beyond showbiz too. She marched for

7:15

civil rights alongside Dr. Martin Luther

7:17

King Jr. advocated for her friend

7:19

Norman Lear's People for the American

7:22

Way, a progressive advocacy organization, and

7:24

has consistently worked to empower Puerto

7:26

Ricans urging them to vote and

7:28

hold elected officials accountable. And that

7:31

energy that I was talking about

7:33

before, it's still there. The woman

7:35

is a dynamo when she performs

7:38

now. Amazing! Whether you know her

7:40

from the Ritz on Broadway or

7:42

Westside story, the electric company, hey

7:44

you guys! 80 for Brady or

7:47

her scene-ceiling role in One Day

7:49

at a Time. Rita has managed

7:51

to keep the same irrepressible charisma

7:54

she's had since starting Spanish dance

7:56

lessons in the Bronx at the

7:58

age of six. There's even, by

8:01

the way, a tribute Barbie doll.

8:03

her inner Oscar dress. I am

8:05

so thrilled to welcome a real

8:07

star, a mother, a grandmother of

8:10

two, a true force of nature,

8:12

and someone who is miles and

8:14

miles and miles wiser than me.

8:17

The wonderful Rita Moreno. Welcome Rita.

8:19

Wow. I want more money. If

8:24

I'm that terrific, I really

8:26

need to be paid for

8:29

this. No, you really do.

8:31

That is such a good

8:33

response to an intro. I

8:35

want more money. Oh, Rita.

8:37

Okay. Are you comfortable if

8:40

I ask your real age,

8:42

Rita? Oh, for sure. Today's

8:44

my birthday. Get the hell

8:46

out. December 11th. I am

8:49

today, officially 93. Happy birthday

8:51

to you, happy birthday to

8:53

you, happy birthday dear Rita,

8:55

happy birthday to you. Man,

8:58

Julia, that's the best, the

9:00

best. Let me ask you

9:02

something about being 93. How

9:04

old do you feel? Oh

9:07

hell, I don't know. I

9:09

don't go by number, so

9:11

I don't know. I feel

9:13

like me, and I'm, let

9:15

me just put it this

9:18

way. Yeah. I am a

9:20

jolly, energetic, joyous. emotional.

9:22

I cry at the drop

9:24

of a hat. Puerto Rican is

9:27

what I am. That's what I

9:29

am. So I don't know

9:31

what it feels like to

9:33

be me. This is what I

9:35

am. And what do you

9:37

think is the best part

9:39

about being your age here at

9:42

93 years old? God, that's cool.

9:44

I am so fucking smart.

9:46

Yeah, this is the vibe

9:48

I'm getting from you. Smart. I'm

9:51

smart, but I'm a lot of

9:53

things that I have come

9:55

to admire, I guess, is

9:57

the word. I have come to

10:00

like myself more than ever

10:02

used to in the old

10:04

bad old days, when being a

10:06

porter. See, I always thought of

10:08

myself as a Puerto Rican.

10:10

And that was maybe one

10:12

of the greatest mistakes I ever

10:15

made. So that stuff is

10:17

gone and done. I am

10:19

just so... Fucking happy

10:21

to be here. I heard you

10:23

went on a two-week vacation with

10:26

your daughter. Yeah. Is that correct?

10:28

And what was that like? Do

10:30

you travel to your daughter a

10:33

lot and talk about sort of

10:35

when you go on vacation with

10:37

your daughter, are you planning it?

10:40

Are you relaxing? What is it

10:42

all about? It started this way.

10:44

I was trying to think of

10:47

a great. birthday present about four

10:49

years ago for her. And then

10:51

I thought of something that we

10:54

both absolutely adore. We're still Easterners

10:56

in many ways. And even though

10:58

I was born in Puerto Rico,

11:01

but I was raised in New

11:03

York City. And I said, how

11:05

does this strike you? We go

11:08

to Boston, rent a car, and

11:10

drive through all the New England

11:12

states that we can and watch

11:15

the leaves turn. Which is my

11:17

idea of pure heaven. I've always

11:19

loved that. She's always loved that.

11:22

And she said, really? I said,

11:24

Why not? Why not? That's a

11:26

present. And she said, oh my

11:29

God, this is great. So I

11:31

put her in charge, because she's

11:33

the organized one, in charge of

11:36

finding someone who would book us

11:38

in little hotels, sometimes motels, and

11:40

help us devise a map where

11:43

we would get the most fun

11:45

and the most eyeballing. that we

11:47

could. It turned out to be

11:50

such a success. We put on

11:52

only Broadway musicals and sang the

11:54

songs at the top of our

11:57

lungs. it all the, oh God

11:59

I love New England? Isn't it

12:01

divine? It really is marvelous. It's

12:04

really marvelous. And the leaves are

12:06

just outrageous. They're so gorgeous. Yeah

12:08

and they smell so good too.

12:11

That and we also had lots

12:13

of lobster rolls. You know all

12:15

this stuff you can't really get

12:18

here in California. Yes. And we

12:20

ate at fabulous places, we ate

12:22

at little places, lots of crunching

12:25

through leaves that had fallen. Oh,

12:27

oh, I'm telling you, I could

12:29

do this for the rest of

12:32

my life. Oh, how lovely. Yeah.

12:34

It's such a great present for

12:36

both of you and then you

12:39

get to be together and really

12:41

connect. You know, we're very close.

12:43

Yes, I can tell. I mean,

12:46

despite my being an impossible person

12:48

and she being an impossible daughter,

12:50

what can I say? We're both

12:53

a pain in the ass. in

12:55

our own special ways. Yes, but

12:57

you're a pain in the ass

13:00

together, right? Yes. Yes. So it's

13:02

a great relationship. It's so lucky

13:04

that's so beautiful. I love the

13:07

idea. I've actually given My boys,

13:09

I have two sons and I've

13:11

given them both, frequently I've given

13:14

them like experiences as gifts as

13:16

opposed to more crap to have

13:18

around the house. What do you

13:21

mean by experiences? I mean tickets

13:23

to shows, tickets to games, they're

13:25

both really into sports, so I

13:28

get them tickets to go see

13:30

the Lakers or the. whatever it

13:32

happens to be, baseball, go see

13:35

the Dodgers, stuff like that. They

13:37

love that kind of thing. But

13:39

now I'm thinking I'm going to

13:42

give them trips with me. Absolutely.

13:44

Yeah, I'm going to do it.

13:46

Absolutely. So you're obviously very fit.

13:49

You work out all the time?

13:51

What's your deal with that? I

13:53

don't work out at all. Get

13:56

out of here. No way, Rita.

13:58

Well, my knees are shot to

14:00

pieces from all that dancing. mean,

14:03

Westside's story, no, the thing that

14:05

really killed my knees was playing

14:07

Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard. Oh.

14:10

And you know how she makes

14:12

these incredible entrances down the steps?

14:14

Yes. Well, in order to come

14:17

down steps, you have to go

14:19

up steps backstage, right? Uh-huh. Yes.

14:21

And that almost killed me. That

14:24

really ruined my knees. It's ruined

14:26

many knees. Many, many days. So

14:28

I don't do things that call

14:31

for knee work, and that's almost

14:33

everything. So I walk, I walk

14:35

the dog, and I can't bend

14:38

them very much. In fact, when

14:40

and if I am asked to

14:42

accept a wonderful award, which happens

14:45

more now that I'm, you know,

14:47

older and they're saying, quick before

14:49

she kicks the bucket, let's give

14:52

her this award. Let's not be

14:54

found wanting. So, I mean, they

14:56

think I don't know these things.

14:59

Anyway, I always have to say,

15:01

am I going to go up

15:03

steps to the stage to accept

15:06

this award? Because if so, then

15:08

I really need some help. Well,

15:10

I was there when you accepted

15:13

at the, recently at the Academy

15:15

Museum, and they gave you an

15:17

award. Oh, were you there? Yeah,

15:20

I was there, and I heard

15:22

your speech, which I want to

15:24

talk about, but the, uh, I

15:27

don't remember you getting help going

15:29

up the stairs. Oh, it's like

15:31

40 men came over. No, that's

15:34

his bullshit. No, I really, my

15:36

knees hurt terribly when I go

15:38

up steps. So my grandson, Justin,

15:41

was the first one there. And

15:43

I told him, I said, if

15:45

there's steps, please come help me.

15:48

But you still walk. I mean,

15:50

you're obviously... Oh yeah. Yes, okay.

15:52

So then, and what about, if

15:55

you don't mind, I'm curious to

15:57

know, do you have like a...

15:59

Do you have a food thing?

16:02

Do you watch what you eat?

16:04

Are you explain what your food

16:06

situation? I try not to. You

16:09

try not to eat. No, I

16:11

try not to watch what I

16:13

eat. Oh my God, you're so

16:16

funny. But no, I eat pretty

16:18

much what I like. Yes. I

16:20

am pre- what my doctor calls

16:23

pre-diabetic. Okay. So I do have

16:25

to be careful about sweets and

16:27

stuff like that. But I've been

16:30

that for... you know, years, and

16:32

I'm still good. Good. So, uh...

16:34

So to how with it? I'm

16:37

just a lucky little bitch. Yeah,

16:39

you are. You really are. I

16:41

am. I am. I was just

16:44

born with fantastic genes. I have

16:46

really good skin for someone who's,

16:48

you know, 93 today. And now,

16:51

and then I read you used

16:53

to sit out in the sun

16:55

and become like a piece of

16:58

bacon. What the hell? You haven't

17:00

had skin cancer issues or anything

17:02

from that? Never. Never. Never. Isn't

17:05

that amazing? Yeah, you're so lucky.

17:07

My mom did. She did. You

17:09

know, she had little skin cancer

17:12

things, but I've never had a

17:14

problem with my skin. Doesn't mean

17:16

I don't have wrinkles. You just

17:19

can't see them here. Yeah. No,

17:21

that's even better. Because I'm out

17:23

of focus. Yeah, out of focus

17:26

is always good. Whereas my mom

17:28

would say, Jew, out of focus.

17:30

My mother said the most wonderful

17:33

things. The best thing she ever

17:35

said. And I can't always tell

17:37

this story, but I know I

17:40

can with you. Tell me. My

17:42

brother was graduating from high school

17:44

and she gave him a little

17:47

party. And she had about, I

17:49

don't know, about 10 people, grown-ups.

17:51

And she was so proud of

17:53

him that he was graduating from,

17:56

as she called it, junior high.

17:59

And she's said, everybody, I

18:01

want to say something. And

18:03

she said, I am so

18:05

proud. I just want to

18:08

tell you that he is

18:10

graduating today from Lacont, Union

18:12

High. Can you imagine the

18:14

expressions on faces? I mean

18:16

there were people who, I

18:18

mean there were eyes that

18:20

went like this. Big, big

18:23

eyes. And I remember I

18:25

ran to her and I

18:27

said, Mommy, for God's sake.

18:29

But she didn't know. She

18:31

didn't know. Oh, of course

18:33

not, but it was also

18:36

very, very annoying too, sometimes.

18:38

And I said, A-E-I-O-U, can't

18:40

you say that? Can't you

18:42

say? She said, no, and

18:44

you know, very well, why?

18:46

I got trouble with my

18:48

bowels. So live me alone.

18:51

She was funny. So speaking

18:53

of your mom, when you

18:55

left Puerto Rico, you had

18:57

a very tight family community

18:59

back in Puerto Rico, and

19:01

you came to the United

19:04

States with your mom when

19:06

you were five, I believe.

19:08

And it was just the

19:10

two of you in New

19:12

York. How did you, in

19:14

those early days, how did

19:17

the two of you navigate

19:19

together? You were a team,

19:21

correct? Actually, if she were

19:23

alive, you should ask her

19:25

because I'll never understand how

19:27

she did it. She had

19:29

two or three jobs at

19:32

once. My mother was wonderful,

19:34

seamstress. She had jobs sewing.

19:36

She would leave me with,

19:38

you know, a friend, and

19:40

she would go down to

19:42

the, to the, uh, the

19:45

district where they do all the

19:47

sewing and that kind of stuff?

19:50

The garment district? Thank you. That's

19:52

the one thing that's happened since

19:54

I became this age. I forget

19:57

nouns. That's fine. I'm here for

19:59

you. I'm here for you. Okay.

20:01

Anyway. did that. She took me

20:04

to shows. She took me to

20:06

dancing class. I used to dance

20:09

for grandpa in Puerto Rico. And

20:11

that's how it all started because

20:13

I used to dance to records.

20:16

And he loved it. He clap

20:18

in time and he'd laugh and

20:20

he'd smile. And I remember thinking.

20:23

This is nice. I like this.

20:25

I like this a lot. Yeah.

20:27

And that hasn't changed. I love

20:30

the attention. Yes. I mean everybody,

20:32

every actor, not every, but many

20:34

actors who say they don't, are

20:37

full of shit. They like the

20:39

attention. They do. They do like

20:41

the attention. Well, let's put it

20:44

this way. They need the attention.

20:46

Yeah, that's the way to say

20:48

it. I need it. I'm an

20:51

attention person. I love it when

20:53

people say I love you. That's

20:56

well. It's not as though I'm

20:58

fighting and battling all these fans.

21:00

I don't have that kind of

21:03

career or life. So it's cool.

21:05

And I just moved from a

21:07

big house to a condo in

21:10

a lovely little town near San

21:12

Francisco. And I always know when

21:14

they recognize me now that it's

21:17

a small town because I get

21:19

this a lot. Rita smiling and

21:21

waving at me, right? Just so

21:24

our listeners know. Right. And sometimes

21:26

there's a question in their face

21:28

that I say, yes, I am.

21:33

It's time for a break. There's much more with

21:35

Rita Moreno when we return. Certainly, you've taken a

21:37

lot of pictures with your kids and family this

21:39

year. Holidays, first day of school, vacations, and all

21:42

those little moments in between. Here's the With

21:44

all those great shots,

21:46

sharing them with the whole

21:48

family can be a

21:50

hassle. It can feel like

21:52

a lot to manage. a

21:54

Fortunately, there's an easy

21:56

way to share all an

21:59

memories without flooding their inboxes.

22:01

flooding Named the Named the number

22:03

frame by frame by wire cutter, aura

22:05

are incredibly smart and easy

22:07

to use, to allowing you

22:09

to upload unlimited photos

22:11

and videos directly from your

22:13

phone to the frame. to

22:16

Plus, you can order

22:18

the frame online and preload

22:20

it with photos and

22:22

videos using the Aura app,

22:24

so it's ready to

22:26

go right out of the

22:28

box. of the box. Let's honest. What

22:30

most people really want

22:33

for the holidays is to

22:35

see their favorite people

22:37

more often. see That's why

22:39

this year the best gift

22:41

you can give, besides this

22:43

tickets, is an you can

22:45

picture frame. Save on the

22:47

perfect gift by visiting frame..com

22:50

to get $35 off frames

22:52

to get off, ORAs best-selling using by using

22:54

promo code wiser, a checkout. That's A-U-R-A -R

22:56

-A -Frames.com promo code WISER. to

22:58

is exclusive to yours now

23:00

yours now in time for the

23:02

holidays. Terms and conditions apply. I

23:04

know we're also excited to find the

23:07

perfect gifts for the people we

23:09

love. There's nothing like seeing your

23:11

adult child light up because you

23:13

up nailed it finally them with exactly

23:15

what they wanted. exactly what they and

23:17

Family Sale is here to help

23:20

make that magic happen. make From December

23:22

happen. through December 12th, take an

23:24

extra 30 an off 30% off top and

23:26

15 % off the best beauty

23:28

brands. They've got something for everyone.

23:30

Ugg boots, advent, calendars, nest candles, crocks, crocks. Who

23:32

knew those knew those to be such a

23:34

big hit. They They also have

23:36

these incredible dry bar travel kits,

23:38

kits, skin gym LED masks, and stocking stocking With the

23:40

holidays right the holidays right around

23:43

the corner time to time to dig

23:45

into your holiday shopping and

23:47

find those perfect guests for your

23:49

loved ones your for a great

23:51

price for a all at the

23:53

Macy's the Macy's Sale. and Family sale. Don't

23:55

miss out on Macy's biggest offer

23:57

of the season. Save big and

23:59

enjoy free shipping. orders over $25.

24:01

Whether you're shopping for loved ones

24:03

or treating yourself, now's the time

24:05

to snag those perfect holiday fines.

24:07

With deals this good, why wait?

24:10

Visit maces.com and make this holiday

24:12

season the easiest and most stylish

24:14

one yet. The holidays

24:16

are all about escaping the grind

24:18

and being with the people who

24:21

matter most. Sure, there's the last-minute

24:23

shopping and chaos that comes with

24:25

it, but that's what makes it

24:27

all so special. No work distractions,

24:29

just good times and making memories

24:32

with the ones you love. But

24:34

if you're feeling a little anxious

24:36

about gift-giving, you're not alone. Brooke

24:38

Lennon makes gifting easy with endless

24:40

product options that everyone on your

24:43

list will love from their mulberry

24:45

silk bundle which includes the soft

24:47

as possible silk pillowcase and eye

24:49

mask to their super plush robe

24:51

with stripes. There is something for

24:53

everyone. Every product is made of

24:56

the most luxurious materials and that's

24:58

because they partner with top caliber

25:00

factories to bring you super high

25:02

quality products that have been tested

25:04

and awarded by experts. Brooklyn and

25:07

Sheets are truly tried and true

25:09

with more than 200,000 five-star reviews

25:11

and millions of happy customers. There's

25:13

really nothing like the pleasure and

25:15

relaxation of laying down onto soft

25:18

smooth sheets. Shop award winners and

25:20

fan faves in store or online

25:22

at brooklyn.com. That's B-R-O-O-O-K-L-I-N-E-N-N-D-com. Get 15%

25:24

off your first order today. Rita,

25:26

I read your memoir and I

25:29

have to say, it's a page

25:31

Turner, it's really well written. Your

25:33

life is just fascinating and you're

25:35

able to relay that beautifully in

25:37

the written word. That reminds me

25:40

of something, and I have to

25:42

say it when I can think

25:44

of it, because otherwise I'll forget.

25:46

Go. I did my, I do

25:48

a talk, and it's about myself,

25:50

and it's not on paper. It's

25:53

somebody having a conversation with me,

25:55

so it's called a conversation with

25:57

Rita Moreno, and I never know

25:59

what going to ask

26:01

because I usually don't know the

26:03

person who's going to do this.

26:06

Oh I see. But they know

26:08

me and they know my career,

26:10

etc., etc. Yeah. And I did

26:12

it recently somewhere and somebody said

26:14

to me afterward My God, you

26:17

are, what's the movie that Tom

26:19

Hanks did where he played that

26:21

wonderful character? Life is like a

26:23

voice of chalk. Forrest Gump. Somebody

26:25

said, you're Forrest Gump because you've

26:28

done everything. You've been Washington, D.C.,

26:30

the walk on Washington. Yes. Marlon

26:32

Brando was your lover. Yes. You

26:34

dated Elvis Presley. And I talk

26:36

about all of that stuff. And

26:39

sometimes it's hilarious. Sometimes it's heartbreaking.

26:41

Yes. Because being in this business,

26:43

being this age, particularly now, is

26:45

difficult. You don't get the jobs

26:47

that you used to. But when

26:50

he said far as God, I

26:52

said, you know, I think you're

26:54

right. Yeah, I've done it all.

26:56

Almost. You've done it all. Do

26:58

you know my wonderful story about

27:01

Martin Luther King? Well, this is

27:03

the story I want you to

27:05

tell, please, because it, you know,

27:07

I was lucky to be at

27:09

the Academy Museum when you were

27:12

getting the honor recently. That's right,

27:14

because I brought it up. I

27:16

know, but our listeners don't know

27:18

it. So you need to explain,

27:20

set the stage, you were involved

27:22

in the civil rights movement, you

27:25

were there at the March on

27:27

Washington, and you were right there

27:29

next to Dr. King, correct? I

27:31

was 10 feet away on a

27:33

chair, sitting next to Sammy Davis

27:36

Jr., and Martin Luther King gets

27:38

up to speak. Yes. And he

27:40

starts a speech that was not

27:42

the one we know at the

27:44

March on Washington. And

27:47

at that point, his very

27:49

dear friend, who was that

27:51

gospel singer? Oh God. She

27:54

was his good friend. Was

27:56

it Mejalia? Mejalia Jackson. Mejalia?

27:58

was there with him and

28:01

she reaches for the back

28:03

of his jacket because he

28:05

started another speech that she

28:08

was not expecting. I saw

28:10

this and I heard this.

28:12

She says, Martin, tell him

28:15

about the dream, Martin. She's

28:17

put tugging on his jacket.

28:19

And he literally stopped. and

28:22

started again, it didn't seem that

28:24

way, you know, who knew? Who

28:26

knew? Who knew? And he starts,

28:28

see, I had a dream speech,

28:31

and the proof of that, because

28:33

a lot of people didn't believe

28:35

me. Yeah. Because I'm one of

28:37

very few people who knows this

28:39

story. Nancy Pelosi knows this story.

28:41

And what happened was that... She

28:44

apparently had heard him do

28:46

this speech in one of

28:48

the churches. Right. Of a

28:51

Sunday. Yes. And when she

28:53

saw he wasn't going to

28:55

do that one, she thought,

28:57

no, no, no, no, he's

28:59

got to tell them about

29:01

the dream. Yeah. He's got

29:03

to. I mean, this gives

29:05

me such huge goosebumps. Me

29:07

too. It makes me teary

29:09

too. And he and there's

29:11

proof that he was not

29:13

going to do that speech.

29:15

Because you can look it

29:17

up in the archives, if

29:19

you look up the speech,

29:21

it does not have. I

29:23

had a dream in it.

29:26

No shit. No shit. Is

29:28

that a story? That is

29:30

a story. Can you talk

29:32

about that? And at that

29:34

point, you hadn't heard him

29:36

give that speech. Can you

29:38

talk about your personal Rita

29:40

experience, hearing that speech in

29:42

that moment of time? Can

29:44

you bring us back? to

29:46

how you felt hearing it.

29:48

I'll tell you what. He

29:50

was a great pastor. Yeah.

29:52

Because he was also an

29:54

actor. Right. That's what made

29:56

him, but that's what made

29:58

him so spectacular. Yeah, yeah.

30:01

And I remember when his

30:03

voice starts to tremble. had

30:05

a dream and people saying,

30:07

yeah, they're going crazy. Yeah.

30:09

Before he even goes on.

30:11

Yeah. Everybody's yelling, yes, yeah.

30:13

And I mean, my hair

30:15

was just standing straight up.

30:17

Sammy Davis was fit to

30:19

be tight. He was just

30:21

crazed with emotion. everybody was

30:23

crazy and every damn time

30:25

that man said something like

30:27

that or let his voice

30:29

tremble because God he knew

30:31

when to do that yeah

30:33

see that's that's acting too

30:36

yeah he could read the

30:38

room as it were you're

30:40

sincere about what you're saying

30:42

yeah but it also calls

30:44

for drama yeah and a

30:46

sense of drama yes and

30:48

I realized how fortunate I

30:50

was to have been asked

30:52

to attend. Yes. It was

30:54

Harry Belafonte who wanted some

30:56

Hollywood people there because, I'm

30:58

assuming, He wanted Martin to

31:00

know that there were people

31:02

in Hollywood who were sincere.

31:04

And that's why he invited

31:06

a group of us. Joseph

31:08

Mankawis was there, James Garner.

31:11

Now Jimmy Garner was a

31:13

friend of mine because I

31:15

had done a bunch of

31:17

his TV shows as a

31:19

guest star. And Jimmy in

31:21

the airplane was guzzling Peptobismol

31:23

because he had He

31:25

had an ulcer and he

31:28

was scared to death that

31:30

he would never work again.

31:32

James Garner. So you can

31:35

imagine how I felt. I

31:38

mean, I didn't have that kind

31:40

of name in a million years,

31:42

and I was terrified. You were

31:44

terrified because... I would never work

31:47

again. Yeah. I mean, come on.

31:49

With good reason you thought this.

31:51

Yeah. And for the listeners, the

31:54

Hollywood blacklist was a period of

31:56

time, largely in the late 40s

31:58

through the 50s, where the government

32:00

persecuted people, they suspected. being communist

32:03

sympathizers. So given that, what did

32:05

you learn about bravery during that

32:07

period of time? I learned that

32:10

it was the only way to

32:12

function. And I think I was

32:14

immensely brave for this reason. How

32:16

afraid you are determines how brave

32:19

you are. As

32:21

far as I'm concerned. Oh.

32:23

So sometimes people do things

32:25

that I know are brave,

32:27

but nobody else knows, and

32:29

I think that person is

32:31

really courageous. So how frightened

32:33

you are? Like I was,

32:35

that I would never work

32:38

again. Or that people, you

32:40

know, the press would take

32:42

advantage of this Puerto Rican.

32:44

Let's not forget that. That

32:46

takes courage. I didn't think

32:48

of it that way then.

32:50

I just knew that I

32:52

had an obligation and a

32:54

responsibility, and that's why I

32:57

was there. That's why Harry

32:59

invited me to be one

33:01

of the people. Because at

33:03

that point, just before then,

33:05

I'd been doing a lot

33:07

of political stuff. I had

33:09

just started to get, I

33:11

had a friend, a girlfriend,

33:14

a roommate, Phyllis, who was

33:16

very political. In fact, I

33:18

believe she was a communist

33:20

once, no longer. But she

33:22

became my mentor and my

33:24

teacher. She politicized me. And

33:26

we met in group therapy.

33:28

Oh, interesting. and became roommates

33:30

as a matter of fact.

33:33

I was crazy about her

33:35

and she found me, she

33:37

loved, dearly loved me because

33:39

she knew that I had

33:41

gumption. I didn't see myself

33:43

that way at all. She

33:45

saw it in you before

33:47

you saw it in yourself.

33:49

She saw it way before

33:52

I ever saw it in

33:54

me. I love that what

33:56

you say about bravery. I

33:58

really do. I just think

34:00

it... really determined by how

34:02

frightened you are. Don't tell

34:04

me that people who do

34:06

risky things aren't worried, that

34:08

somehow it may come back

34:11

and slab in the face.

34:13

I think people know that

34:15

it takes a certain amount.

34:17

They may not call it

34:19

that. I call it courage.

34:21

Right. It is courage. You

34:24

know, you've mentioned actually that

34:27

Anita became a role model

34:29

for you, which I think

34:31

that's interesting because I've never

34:33

thought about like a character

34:35

that I've played as being

34:37

a role. Well, of course,

34:39

I've played a bunch of

34:41

fuck-ups, but in my career.

34:43

But what was it about

34:46

the character of Anita that

34:48

that you admired? Well, it

34:50

was the first Hispanic role

34:52

that I had been offered

34:54

who loved herself. She had

34:56

a sense of dignity. I've

34:58

never played a Hispanic character.

35:00

Excuse me. who had those

35:03

qualities. This was the very

35:05

first time that I played

35:07

a Hispanic character who wasn't

35:09

talking like this all day

35:11

time, you know? Who stood

35:13

proud, who owned it proudly

35:15

all. She owned it. And

35:17

she was proud of herself.

35:19

And she wasn't going to

35:22

take any shit from anybody.

35:24

And I... I was astounded

35:26

that I was offered the

35:28

part. I was astounded because

35:30

I thought I'm so not

35:32

that. Let me tell you

35:34

an interesting story. Please. Speaking

35:36

of Anita. Yes. When I

35:39

finally got the part because

35:41

I tested and tested and

35:43

tested. Hey, did Cheater Rivera

35:45

also try out for it

35:47

or had that one? She

35:49

was never, never offered. No.

35:51

Wow. By the way, just

35:53

so our listeners know that

35:55

Cheetah played Anita on Broadway.

35:58

Oh, she was the original

36:00

Anita. But anyway, I'm interrupting

36:02

you. You go ahead. Talk

36:04

about that. were auditioning for,

36:06

you were auditioning for the

36:08

role. I got the part

36:10

after testing a lot. They

36:12

tested everybody in Hollywood with

36:15

brown hair and brown eyes.

36:17

So I got the part

36:19

finally and I was beyond

36:21

thrilled. It was a great

36:23

part. Yes. Just a great

36:25

part. And the music is

36:27

so gorgeous. Oh, please. Yes.

36:29

The first thing I did

36:31

when I heard that I

36:34

got the part. I ran

36:36

to the music store and

36:38

bought the music, the whole

36:40

manuscript, so that I could

36:42

be ahead of the game

36:44

and I would know America

36:46

and a boy like that,

36:48

that kind of thing, so

36:51

that I would know the

36:53

songs backwards. You know, there

36:55

would be no problem with

36:57

that. Yeah. So I brought

36:59

it home and the first

37:01

thing I did was turn

37:03

the page to America. And

37:05

here is what I read

37:07

and sang. to that manuscript.

37:10

Puerto Rico, you ugly island,

37:12

island of tropic diseases. You

37:14

know, even just saying it

37:16

now in that context gives

37:18

me the chills and makes

37:20

me, makes my stomach royal

37:22

because when I saw that.

37:24

I didn't realize that that

37:27

was the verse in the

37:29

Broadway play. And I remember

37:31

thinking, I can't do this.

37:33

I can't do this. And

37:35

then this went on for

37:37

days and days and days

37:39

and I kept thinking I'm

37:41

gonna have to just you

37:43

know call my agent and

37:46

say I can't do this.

37:48

And then I would say

37:50

but I want the part

37:52

I want this so badly

37:54

I can taste it. Yeah.

37:56

And then I would say

37:58

to myself. you can't do

38:00

it. You will never ever

38:03

live that down. I was

38:05

probably right. And I would

38:07

say, all right, I'll call

38:09

my agent and it'll be

38:11

hideous because he will scream

38:13

at me. We worked so

38:15

hard to get that fucking

38:17

part. I mean, I tested

38:19

and tested and all kinds

38:22

of stuff. I went through

38:24

hell to get it. And

38:26

I thought... I

38:29

was scared to death that he would

38:31

talk me into doing it anyway. Did

38:33

you tell anybody you had a problem

38:35

with that line? No. No. No. I

38:38

didn't know what to do. It didn't

38:40

occur. So what happened? I'll tell you.

38:42

The day before I had designated the

38:44

day that was going to call the

38:47

agent the next day. I

38:51

got a delivery at my door

38:53

of the new script of West

38:55

Side Story because the changes had

38:57

been made they had to because

39:00

this was meant for theater. Now

39:02

this was the movie script. Yes.

39:04

And I went through the pages

39:06

until I got to America where

39:09

they had the lyrics. And it

39:11

said, Puerto Rico, my heart's devotion.

39:13

Let it sink back in the

39:16

ocean. That I could deal with.

39:18

Because it's a character who says,

39:20

I don't want to go back

39:22

to that country. But she's not

39:25

saying you ugly island, island of

39:27

tropic diseases. I mean, I'm actually

39:29

surprised that I was then that

39:31

Sahnheim would write a lyric like

39:34

that. Anyway, that solved that problem.

39:36

Wow. And I said to my,

39:38

I called my agent the next

39:41

day, I'll say, I have a

39:43

story to tell you. And when

39:45

he heard that I was thinking

39:47

of me, he said, you're kidding

39:50

me. I said, of course not.

39:52

Do you think I could really

39:54

do that to my people? Wow.

39:56

he said, I don't, I understand.

39:59

I said, you, I don't think

40:01

you do, but never mind. Thank

40:03

you for saying that. You talk

40:06

in your book a lot about

40:08

sexual harassment, which you endured at

40:10

that party? Oh, that awful Hollywood

40:12

cocktail party. That awful Hollywood cocktail

40:15

party in which you were sexually

40:17

harassed? By the host. By the

40:19

host. By the host. And by

40:21

Harry Cohen. He was the head

40:24

of Columbia, and he was there

40:26

at that party. And the very

40:28

first thing that came out of

40:31

his mouth when I was introduced

40:33

to him was I'd

40:35

like to fuck you. To that

40:38

day I had never heard anyone

40:40

use that word. I'd heard the

40:42

word. I wasn't, you know, that

40:44

innocent, but I was in shock.

40:46

And you know what I did?

40:49

I giggled. I didn't know what

40:51

to do. Can I tell you

40:53

something? Somebody said something like that

40:55

to me, back in the 80s,

40:57

in Hollywood, and I did the

40:59

same thing. I giggled. Did you?

41:02

I did. I did. I was

41:04

very young. Well, it shows how

41:06

helpless we were then. Yeah. It's

41:08

amazing. We didn't. We really didn't

41:10

know. And if you could, like,

41:12

going, I know what I would

41:15

do, looking back on that, I

41:17

wish I could replay it, and

41:19

just say, why don't you go

41:21

fuck yourself, which is, I think.

41:23

Why don't you go fuck yourself?

41:26

Yeah, don't fuck me, go fuck

41:28

yourself. Is that what you would

41:30

do? If you could redo that

41:32

moment? Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I,

41:34

no qualms. But in other words,

41:36

there's no giggling now. Oh, not

41:39

at all. It's just, it's just

41:41

disgraceful. Well, except to say that

41:43

don't you think the whole thing,

41:45

it's interesting because you giggle, because

41:47

first of all, it's so shocking,

41:50

it feels so shameful, and you

41:52

know, as women, I think we

41:54

kind of absorb their what's

41:56

so You take on. take

41:58

on the the the

42:00

ones who should

42:03

be ashamed. But

42:05

no, it's the opposite happens.

42:07

Right. It's, It's That's That's why

42:09

I giggled. know. It's know. It's

42:11

bizarre. Let's bizarre. more quick break. My take

42:13

one more quick break. My

42:16

conversation with Rita Moreno continues

42:18

in just a moment. It's

42:33

great when you can get

42:35

someone a gift a wouldn't necessarily

42:37

get for themselves. That little bit

42:39

of luxury that they don't

42:41

know they're missing. don't For quality

42:43

gifts this season at an affordable

42:45

price, quince is the perfect

42:47

go -to. go-to. Quince you treat your

42:49

loved ones and yourself to to

42:51

luxury at an affordable price. Something

42:53

everyone needs in their closet

42:55

is closet is Quince's iconic cashmere sweaters which

42:57

start at just at just $50. Or for

42:59

the the ultimate gifts that are

43:01

fantastic all year round, check

43:03

out their out their gold jewelry or

43:05

their luxurious luxurious linen linen sheet sets.

43:07

also an incredible 100 % Italian leather

43:09

shoulder bag on their website

43:11

in the most divine colors. The

43:13

leather grain is gorgeous. is Whatever

43:15

you're looking for, all quince

43:17

items are priced are to 80 50

43:19

less than similar brands. They

43:21

cut prices but don't cut corners.

43:23

Quince only works with factories

43:25

that use safe, ethical and responsible

43:27

manufacturing practices. Gift luxury

43:29

this holiday season without

43:31

the luxury price tag.

43:33

Go to quince.com the for

43:36

price tag. Go to returns plus

43:38

free shipping on your

43:40

order. That's Q -U -I -N

43:42

-C -E your slash wiser

43:44

to get free shipping to get

43:46

free shipping returns quince.com slash

43:48

slash wiser. If

43:50

you're looking to

43:53

stock up on

43:55

some of the

43:57

hottest new hottest new

43:59

you need you need

44:02

Viori. Inspired by

44:04

the coastal lifestyle, Viori

44:06

creates products that not only

44:08

stand the test of time, but

44:11

also inspire us to live vibrant,

44:13

healthy lives. Their clothes look great,

44:15

both inside and outside the gym,

44:17

making them perfect for any activity

44:20

or just lounging around. There's so

44:22

much to love, but we'd love

44:24

to highlight the women's performance jogger,

44:26

made with Viori's signature dream-knit fabric.

44:29

This material is biles to make

44:31

it the easiest and dreamiest thing

44:33

in your closet. Another must have

44:36

is the women's daily legging legging.

44:38

featuring the breathe interlock performance stretch-knit

44:40

fabric. These leggings have a high

44:42

waist with a tunnel drawstring tie

44:45

and cuffed ankles ensuring a no-slip

44:47

fit. It's a brand new perspective

44:49

on leggings and we are so

44:51

so grateful for it. Vyore is

44:54

an investment in your happiness. For

44:56

our listeners, they are offering 20%

44:58

off your first purchase. Get yourself

45:00

some of the most comfortable and

45:03

versatile clothing on the planet at

45:05

vyore.com/wiser. That's v-you-o-r-i.com/wiser. Not only will

45:07

you receive 20% off your first

45:09

purchase, but enjoy free shipping on

45:12

any U.S. orders over $75 and

45:14

free returns. Go to viori.com/Wiser and

45:16

discover the versatility of viori clothing.

45:20

Overspending during the holidays feels inevitable

45:22

between buying gifts, planning parties, traveling,

45:24

and even going out to eat.

45:26

That's where Acorns comes in. Acorns

45:28

makes it easy to start automatically

45:31

saving and investing for you, your

45:33

kids, and your retirement, even during

45:35

the holidays. You don't need to

45:37

be an expert. Acorns will recommend

45:40

a diversified portfolio that matches you.

45:42

And you can get bonus investments

45:44

just for buying the stuff you

45:46

need from the brands you love.

45:48

You don't need to be rich.

45:51

Acorns lets you get started with

45:53

the spare money you've got right

45:55

now. That could be $5 a

45:57

day or even just your spare

45:59

change. That's right. Acorns can round

46:02

every purchase you make. to the

46:04

dollar and automatically invest your spare

46:06

change for you. Buying stocking stuffers

46:08

this year could put more money

46:11

in your investment account today. And

46:13

now Acorns is helping you build

46:15

your financial future so you can

46:17

focus on your holiday shopping, parties,

46:19

travel, or whatever. You don't need

46:22

a ton of time. You can

46:24

create your Acorns account and start

46:26

automatically investing your money in just

46:28

five minutes. Learning how to be

46:30

smart with your finances is so

46:33

important and that's why Acorn's mission

46:35

of taking the guesswork out of

46:37

investing has resonated with so many

46:39

people. You can invest just by

46:42

rounding up your everyday purchases like

46:44

when you grab coffee or order

46:46

takeout, giving those small investments a

46:48

chance to grow. Head to acorns.com/wiser

46:50

or download the acorns app to

46:53

start saving and investing for your

46:55

future today. Paid non-client endorsement. Compensation

46:57

provides incentive to positively promote acorns.

46:59

Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisers LLC

47:01

and SEC Registered Investment Advisor view

47:04

important disclosures at acorns.com/wiser. Wiser

47:07

than me, season 3 is available

47:09

ad-free when you subscribe to Lemonada

47:12

Premium. You'll also get access to

47:14

exclusive interview excerpts from each episode.

47:17

Subscribe now in the Apple Podcast

47:19

app. So

47:21

in the wonderful PBS documentary about

47:24

your life, you talk about something

47:26

which I think is going to

47:28

really resonate with a lot of

47:31

women listening to this. When your

47:33

husband Leonard passed away, you were

47:35

married for 45 years. You felt

47:37

so many things, of course, and

47:40

you were, you were, you know,

47:42

with him at the end. I'm

47:44

glad you're asking me this. I

47:47

know what you're going to ask.

47:49

Go ahead. Yeah, but you said

47:51

that you felt a sense of

47:54

relief. And I think that that

47:56

was an incredibly, talk about brave,

47:58

brave thing to say. unspoken

48:01

and can you talk about

48:03

that? Many times unspoken. Yeah

48:05

right. I'll tell you something

48:07

interesting about four months after

48:10

he passed away I was

48:12

at a party with people

48:14

my age mostly and there

48:16

were five women who were

48:18

widowed. Hmm. And I said

48:20

to them I would like

48:22

to ask you a question

48:25

that I hope won't offend

48:27

you. But I said, I

48:29

really need some backup here.

48:31

Because I really thought, man,

48:33

you're a piece of work,

48:35

you know, feeling relieved like

48:37

this. Because the morning after

48:40

I came back home, he

48:42

died in New York in

48:44

a hospital. Morning after, in

48:46

my bed, I said, when

48:48

I woke up, oh my

48:50

God, I can stay in

48:52

bed all day if I

48:55

want to. I

48:57

can watch all the

48:59

TV news that I

49:01

want to because I

49:03

used to make him

49:05

crazy. Which is, you

49:07

know, fair. That's fair.

49:09

And I realize that

49:11

I just, it's like

49:13

something amazing went over

49:15

me, passed over me.

49:17

And I asked these

49:19

ladies at that party

49:21

back to that. I

49:24

told them how I

49:26

felt and I said,

49:28

did any of you

49:30

by any chance feel

49:32

like that? There were

49:34

five of them, four

49:37

of them said yes.

49:40

And they didn't hesitate to

49:42

say it. Maybe because I

49:44

brought it up the way

49:46

I did, which was very

49:48

simple and plain. And it's

49:50

not, you're not saying that

49:53

your love is gone. No,

49:55

you're not saying anything like,

49:57

remotely like that. What you're

49:59

saying is, I started a

50:01

new life. Right. That I

50:04

couldn't give up because of

50:06

my daughter. I just couldn't

50:08

dream of leaving her without

50:10

her father at the ready

50:12

at all times. I just

50:15

couldn't do it. Did you

50:17

have any loneliness? I had

50:19

loneliness before he passed. Oh.

50:21

Because I didn't feel able

50:23

to share that with anyone.

50:26

I really thought of going back

50:28

into therapy, because one of the

50:31

best things that I've ever done

50:33

for myself was therapy, by the

50:36

way, psychotherapy. But it was weird

50:38

to feel all this freedom. I

50:40

didn't know what the hell to

50:43

do with it. What

50:45

did you do with it?

50:47

Not much for a while.

50:49

I cried a lot. No.

50:51

Because I did miss him.

50:53

Yeah. And you know what?

50:55

I missed a lot? Tell

50:57

me. A lot. To this

50:59

day I still miss it.

51:01

Whenever he would pass me,

51:03

usually it was in the

51:05

kitchen, because I was always

51:07

in the kitchen doing something.

51:09

He would run his hand

51:11

over my tush. Oh. It's

51:13

just so sweet. Oh, is...

51:15

No, nothing said. Nothing explained.

51:17

I knew what that meant.

51:19

He just loved my toes.

51:21

She loved me. Very, very

51:23

much. I think that Lenny

51:25

loved me more than I

51:27

loved him. Because people, when

51:29

they marry, very often make

51:31

a pact. An unspoken pact.

51:33

In my case, that's exactly

51:35

what we did. My pact

51:37

with Lenny was, I'll be

51:39

your little girl and make

51:41

you very happy if you'll

51:43

be my daddy and protect

51:45

me. I see. Because I

51:47

had a bunch of fathers.

51:49

Right, I know. you know,

51:51

stepfathers and stuff. And that

51:53

was the unspoken pack that

51:55

we made. And then one

51:57

day, after about, uh, 10

52:01

years, I began to

52:04

dislike the marriage because

52:06

he became a controller.

52:09

And that really drove

52:11

me crazy. And also,

52:13

the controlling part did

52:16

something else that surprised

52:18

me. I realized that

52:21

in being his little

52:23

girl, I was also

52:25

this exotic little tropical

52:28

bird. That's how he

52:30

also saw me. And there was

52:33

a point when I didn't want

52:35

that anymore. I wanted to say,

52:37

and I didn't know how to

52:40

get it, this is the kind

52:42

of man who, when you would

52:45

go to the thermostat in the

52:47

house, go to turn it up

52:49

because you were cold, he'd say,

52:52

don't do that. And I wouldn't.

52:55

Oh, I see. That's how that

52:57

was. So that was, that was

53:00

the pact. You listened. That was

53:02

part of the pact. That was

53:04

part of the pact. You know,

53:06

you said you wanted this? You

53:09

got it. So you don't have

53:11

a partner now, right? Yeah. And

53:13

so. Can you talk about finding

53:15

community? I mean, it's one thing

53:18

when you're working because that's all

53:20

built in. You know, you have

53:22

your community at work. But when

53:25

you're not working, what's your community?

53:27

How have you found your community?

53:29

I know you have, you're a

53:31

proud mummy and you're a proud

53:34

grandma. But beyond that. Other than

53:36

that. Okay, I'll tell

53:38

you a story. Okay. I'm

53:40

full of stories. I love

53:42

it. Apocalypse stories. No. When

53:45

I moved to this wonderful

53:47

apartment, I found myself and

53:49

I love it. I love

53:51

it. It's beautiful. It's gorgeous.

53:53

I found myself getting very

53:55

sad. This was like eight

53:58

months ago. really sad and

54:00

I had given up driving

54:02

also I don't drive anymore

54:04

because I don't trust my

54:06

reflexes anymore okay and I

54:08

got very lonely now I

54:11

have friends I have friends

54:13

who love and adore me

54:15

and love and adore me

54:17

in a wonderful way because

54:19

it's not Rita Moreno, the

54:21

performer. No, it's you, Rita,

54:24

my friend Rita. Yeah. You

54:26

know? So I still don't

54:28

quite understand how it was

54:30

that I got very, very

54:32

depressed. and very lonely, lost

54:34

my appetite, and I sat

54:37

myself down and did what

54:39

I do, which my therapist

54:41

urged me to do whenever

54:43

something puzzled me. You would

54:45

say, sit down and think

54:48

about it, and come to

54:50

some kind of conclusion, if

54:52

you can. And I thought

54:54

about, I said, I'm in

54:56

an apartment I love. I

54:59

have my daughter who might

55:01

worship practically. I have this

55:03

beautiful place. I have this

55:05

lovely little town. People smile

55:08

at me because they recognize

55:10

me and they're respectful. They

55:12

don't, you know, all of

55:14

that good stuff. What is

55:16

wrong with you? Why are

55:18

you doing this? And then

55:21

I thought, I know what's

55:23

wrong. What? You

55:26

don't know how to make friends

55:28

because people have always come to

55:30

you. Oh, so what did you

55:33

do? So one day I was

55:35

in the supermarket and there was

55:37

a lady I'd seen several times

55:39

there who had the loveliest face

55:42

on this beautiful smile and one

55:44

day I went to the supermarket

55:46

after I made this decision. And

55:49

she smiled at me once

55:51

again, and I stopped her

55:54

and I said, you have

55:56

such a lovely face. Oh.

55:58

I said, I. I

56:00

think I would like to know

56:02

you better. She said, oh, thank

56:05

you. And I said, I amaze

56:07

me sometimes. And I said, would

56:09

you like to have lunch with

56:12

me tomorrow? Oh. And she said,

56:14

yeah, I'd love to. Oh. I

56:16

said, great. OK, see you at

56:19

noon. So I met her for

56:21

lunch. And we're looking at the

56:23

menus. And she says to me.

56:26

Tell me something. Do you always

56:28

go picking up older ladies and

56:30

supermarkets? I said, no! She's still

56:33

a friend. Oh, that's so nice.

56:35

Her name is Gail. Good old

56:38

Gail. Everybody needs Gail in their

56:40

lives. That's right. Yes. Was it

56:42

hard giving up driving? I bet

56:45

that was hard. Jesus. It's still

56:47

hard. Yeah, I bet. Because I

56:49

used to love to tootle around

56:52

in my car. Of course. You

56:54

have complete independence, autonomy, and that's

56:56

what you miss. You know, I

56:59

found myself calling Fernandez, my daughter.

57:01

Yeah. Would you have a couple

57:03

of hours for you tomorrow, you

57:06

know, that kind of thing? Oh,

57:08

I hated that. I still miss

57:10

it. I still miss tuteling. Of

57:13

course you do. I can fully

57:15

understand why that would be hard

57:18

to give up. And what about

57:20

things like cognition, like when you're

57:22

trying, I mean, it doesn't, I

57:25

mean, you're searching for words here

57:27

and there, but it doesn't sound

57:29

like you're having any serious cognition

57:32

issues. That's the thing that's happening,

57:34

that's been happening, which is that

57:36

I don't always remember nouns. names

57:39

of people, particularly names of people.

57:41

Right, right. That's why I had

57:43

to ask you about that movie.

57:46

See, I forgot it again. Well,

57:48

now I forgot it. Okay. But

57:50

that, yeah, so far, that's the

57:53

only thing. But it's a very

57:55

annoying thing. Yeah. Because you can

57:57

see the object or the You

58:00

see them as clear as day,

58:02

but your brain will not come

58:05

up with the name until five

58:07

minutes later. It does come back.

58:09

Is it frustrating to ask for

58:12

help in those circumstances or not

58:14

really? Yes, it's

58:16

frustrating. Of course it's frustrating. Yeah,

58:18

yeah. Because very often I have

58:21

to describe the person whose name

58:23

I can't think of. You know,

58:25

the one who was married to

58:27

Harvey Weinstein. Right. You know, that

58:30

kind of thing. Right. Oh, you

58:32

mean so and so? No, that's

58:34

not the one. So yes, it's

58:37

annoying. Yeah, it's annoying. I'm going

58:39

to completely shift gears here because

58:41

there's one aspect of your life

58:44

that we haven't touched on and

58:46

I think that people would benefit

58:48

to hear from you about this.

58:50

I know you battled when you

58:53

were younger, of course, you battled

58:55

feelings of inadequacy and you attempted

58:57

suicide. I want to know if,

59:00

do you still struggle with a

59:02

negative voice in your head, that

59:04

negative voice from way back when,

59:06

and do you have advice for

59:09

people who struggle with a lack

59:11

of self-worth who are listening to

59:13

this today? There is very definitely

59:16

a side of me that is

59:18

always kind of delighted. when

59:21

something doesn't work out

59:23

for me. You're kidding!

59:25

Oh, I've named her

59:27

Rosita, Little Rosita, which

59:29

was my name as

59:31

a child. Yes. But

59:33

this is a naughty

59:35

Rosita who kind of

59:37

sits on a shoulder.

59:39

And I learned to

59:41

deal with her this

59:43

way. Rosita, when something

59:45

bad happens, will very

59:47

often appear, not always,

59:49

but often enough, appear

59:51

and say, I told

59:53

you, ha-ha-ha-ha-ha, she's still

59:55

there after all these

59:57

years, and after wonderful,

59:59

wonderful, work

1:00:02

and all that. Rosita exists.

1:00:04

And what I've learned to

1:00:06

do with Rosita is say,

1:00:08

go to your room, little

1:00:10

bitch. Sometimes she does. Sometimes

1:00:13

she doesn't. But what happens

1:00:15

when she doesn't? Rita. But

1:00:17

I have to, I Rita,

1:00:19

have to deal with it

1:00:21

in my own way. I

1:00:24

just have to, you know,

1:00:26

I examine stuff. I examine

1:00:28

stuff all the time. I

1:00:30

break things apart, like a

1:00:32

puzzle. That's what I do.

1:00:35

I'm very good at knowing

1:00:37

why people behave in certain

1:00:39

ways, which is part of

1:00:41

being an actor. Sure. Right?

1:00:43

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And

1:00:46

I'm really good at that.

1:00:48

And I'm able to do

1:00:50

it with myself. It doesn't

1:00:52

always work. But the thing

1:00:54

is, you have to address

1:00:57

it. Her, him, whoever. You

1:00:59

have to address it. You

1:01:01

have to address it. You

1:01:03

can't just say, God, I'm

1:01:05

feeling so miserable. I'll try

1:01:07

to forget this. It doesn't

1:01:10

work anyway. Yeah. That doesn't

1:01:12

work at all. In your

1:01:14

life, there's a theme that

1:01:16

I'm feeling, and the theme

1:01:18

is about power and freedom.

1:01:21

And I think if you

1:01:23

agree with me, as you've

1:01:25

lived your life, you've felt

1:01:27

more power, self-power, and you've

1:01:29

gained more freedom. Is that

1:01:32

safe to say? Yeah, you're

1:01:34

very smart girl. Yeah. And

1:01:36

you're not a girl either,

1:01:38

but to me you are.

1:01:40

I'll take it. Yes, I

1:01:43

think that works very well.

1:01:45

And I'll tell you something

1:01:47

else that I started doing

1:01:49

and that Actually, since I

1:01:51

moved here, which is not

1:01:54

more than 10 months, maybe.

1:01:56

There's something about me that's

1:01:58

very joyous. Yeah, no kidding.

1:02:00

It's just very much a

1:02:02

part of me. I laugh

1:02:05

a lot. I mean, laughing

1:02:07

is like a hobby with

1:02:09

me. Yeah. I love, the

1:02:11

reason I really fell in

1:02:13

love with my husband is

1:02:16

because he was funny. Yeah,

1:02:18

that's the great aphrodisiac. I'm

1:02:20

the only woman in life

1:02:22

in this life, I'm sure,

1:02:24

who thought that Millbrooks was

1:02:27

sexy, because he was funny.

1:02:29

No, there's another person who

1:02:31

thinks the same, and that's

1:02:33

me. I couldn't agree with

1:02:35

you more. Okay, I'll tell

1:02:38

you why I think that's

1:02:40

sexy. There's something about

1:02:42

someone who has a quick

1:02:44

wit that makes me feel

1:02:47

protected from the outside world.

1:02:49

Oh, interesting. And I find

1:02:51

that very sexy because they

1:02:53

can protect me. Ah, with

1:02:56

their wit. That's still sexy

1:02:58

for me because that's a

1:03:00

way of protecting me by

1:03:02

just coming up with some

1:03:05

funny hilarious thing that will

1:03:07

distract that person who's handing

1:03:09

out the poison. Oh, interesting.

1:03:11

What's your reason? I think

1:03:13

for me, it's twofold. I

1:03:16

think it speaks to intelligence,

1:03:18

which I find intoxicating. Oh,

1:03:20

me too. I forgot to

1:03:22

mention that. That's so important.

1:03:25

So important. Yeah. And it's

1:03:27

also just, it's playful and

1:03:29

it's joyous, and that's what

1:03:31

I want. I want play,

1:03:34

I want joy. That's my

1:03:36

goal. If there was anything

1:03:38

more to get in my

1:03:40

life, I just want more

1:03:43

joy and more play. Yeah.

1:03:45

And so Rita, speaking of

1:03:47

joy, it has been so

1:03:49

wonderful to speak with you

1:03:52

today. And before we wrap

1:03:54

up, I do want to

1:03:56

ask you a couple little

1:03:58

quick questions. Okay. Okay. Is

1:04:00

there something you would go

1:04:03

back and tell yourself at

1:04:05

21, Rita? Oh boy, I

1:04:07

certainly would. What would it

1:04:09

be. have value. Nobody ever

1:04:12

said that around me. Is

1:04:14

there something you would go

1:04:16

back and say yes to?

1:04:18

Did I originally said no

1:04:21

to, you mean? Yeah. I

1:04:24

said, yes, too often. Let's

1:04:26

put it that way. That

1:04:28

was my, that was my

1:04:30

character. Even when I was

1:04:32

not happy about saying it,

1:04:34

I would say yes. Oh,

1:04:36

that's fascinating. And I was

1:04:38

very often, you know, that

1:04:41

man who raped me that

1:04:43

I talk about in the,

1:04:45

in the documentary, I ran

1:04:47

into him about three years

1:04:49

ago. And

1:04:52

it turned out that the

1:04:54

concert I was doing the

1:04:56

following night was booked by

1:04:58

him. He's still an agent.

1:05:00

He was, and just so

1:05:02

our listeners understand, he was

1:05:04

your agent at the time

1:05:07

and he raped you. And

1:05:09

I was 16 and he

1:05:11

raped me. Yeah. And I

1:05:13

kept him as my agent.

1:05:15

That's the bad part. Yeah.

1:05:17

I found out that he

1:05:19

had booked me in this

1:05:21

concert about three years ago

1:05:23

in Palm Springs. And he

1:05:25

said, he called me on

1:05:27

the phone and I thought,

1:05:30

oh my God, he's still

1:05:32

around. And he said, my

1:05:34

wife would love to meet

1:05:36

you. Oh, Rita. And I

1:05:38

said, I, I don't, I

1:05:40

don't, okay. What's her name?

1:05:42

And, uh, He told me

1:05:44

her name and he said,

1:05:46

let's meet at the such

1:05:48

and such restaurant for brunch.

1:05:50

And you won't believe the

1:05:53

end of the story. I

1:05:55

sit down, I meet his

1:05:57

wife and we talk and

1:05:59

all that. She has no

1:06:01

idea. None. At one point

1:06:03

she decides she needs to

1:06:05

go to the bathroom. Excuses

1:06:07

herself and there we are

1:06:09

just the two of us.

1:06:11

And I said to him,

1:06:14

Excuses herself and there we

1:06:16

are just the two of

1:06:18

us. And I said to

1:06:20

him, I have

1:06:22

to talk to you about

1:06:24

something. And he said, but

1:06:26

let me say this first.

1:06:29

And I said, okay. He

1:06:31

said, I was always sorry

1:06:33

I didn't make you pregnant.

1:06:35

What? Yeah, that's what all

1:06:37

my friends say when I

1:06:39

tell them this story. And

1:06:42

Rita what? And then what?

1:06:44

Well, okay, how do you

1:06:46

respond to something like that?

1:06:48

You can say, you, son

1:06:50

of a bitch, I've never

1:06:52

been... And I... That didn't

1:06:55

work for me. And I

1:06:57

just said to him, you

1:06:59

are a piece of work,

1:07:01

and I got up and

1:07:03

left. That's all I could

1:07:05

do. I mean, what can

1:07:08

you say? Well, he has

1:07:10

to live with himself, that

1:07:12

horrible... A defended, awful man.

1:07:14

He has to look at

1:07:16

himself in the mirror and

1:07:18

be who he is. I'm

1:07:21

glad you got up and

1:07:23

left. I'm glad. He didn't

1:07:25

realize what he had said.

1:07:27

He really didn't. Course, he

1:07:29

was coerced. So, of course,

1:07:31

crude, crude, vulgar, foul, inhumane.

1:07:34

Well, good. So, you didn't

1:07:36

tell him off except that

1:07:38

you did, you got up

1:07:40

and you left. There was

1:07:42

no way to tell him

1:07:44

off. What can you say?

1:07:47

Right. You were awful. I'll

1:07:49

never forgive you. I haven't

1:07:51

forgiven you. It doesn't work.

1:07:53

I think you said it.

1:07:55

I think in that circumstance,

1:07:57

less is more. Yeah. You're

1:07:59

a piece of work, I'm

1:08:02

out. Yeah. Wow, that's just

1:08:04

incredible Rita. You really are

1:08:06

brave. So now I have

1:08:08

one final question for you.

1:08:10

Is there something you're looking

1:08:12

forward to? Yeah, being 94.

1:08:15

Yeah. So far, so good.

1:08:19

Oh, that's right. I love it.

1:08:21

I mean, if it's only nouns

1:08:23

that I'm forgetting, that's not the

1:08:25

worst thing in the world. No,

1:08:28

it's not. No, it's definitely not.

1:08:30

My knees are horrible, but so

1:08:32

what? I don't need them for

1:08:34

anything anymore. No, it's fine. You

1:08:37

don't have to walk up gobs

1:08:39

of stairs. Right. and I'm sure

1:08:41

there'll be plenty more coming your

1:08:43

way. You deserve every one of

1:08:45

them. Oh God, no, I don't

1:08:48

think there's anything left. I've got

1:08:50

a lot of those. But listen,

1:08:52

I want to tell you how

1:08:54

much I admire you, and you're

1:08:57

just a complete and total blessing

1:08:59

to the world. Wow, that's lovely.

1:09:01

Thank you. And also, thank you

1:09:03

for coming and talking to us

1:09:06

on this show. We've got lots

1:09:08

of wisdom that you've imparted today

1:09:10

and we're very grateful. Well, you're

1:09:12

so special anyway. I really was

1:09:15

looking forward to this. Oh, thanks.

1:09:17

I had such a good time.

1:09:19

Good. Thank you. Thank you for

1:09:21

being here. Moa. My pleasure. Good

1:09:23

bye. How

1:09:26

much fun to catch Rita

1:09:28

on her birthday! Oh my God,

1:09:30

that's a wiser than me first.

1:09:33

And obviously she's experienced so much

1:09:35

in her life. All right,

1:09:37

let's get my mom on the

1:09:40

zoom and see what she has

1:09:42

to say about this conversation. Hi

1:09:49

mommy. I love. Hi lovey mommy.

1:09:51

How are you doing? I'm doing

1:09:53

fine. How are you doing? Good.

1:09:55

I just spoke with Rita Moreno

1:09:57

who is 93 years old. you

1:10:00

can even believe what I'm telling

1:10:02

you. She's incredible, is she still

1:10:04

dancing like crazy? She doesn't dance

1:10:06

as much as she did because

1:10:08

her knees are kind of shot,

1:10:11

as she says. However, she's sharp

1:10:13

as a tack. She says she's

1:10:15

still searching for nouns and things,

1:10:17

but she's still working. She gets

1:10:19

out there. I mean, it's quite

1:10:22

remarkable. By the way, mom, when

1:10:24

you were in New York in

1:10:26

the 60s, even the

1:10:28

late 50s I guess. Did you

1:10:31

see Westside's story on Broadway? I

1:10:33

did. Yep. You did? Oh yes,

1:10:35

yes, absolutely. So you saw the

1:10:37

original production? The original production. Right.

1:10:40

Tell me what your, when you

1:10:42

saw it, what was your reaction?

1:10:44

Do you recall? Oh. breathless,

1:10:47

just breathless, it was just one of

1:10:49

those. I mean, you knew from the

1:10:51

minute it started, it was a little

1:10:53

bit like Chorus Line, the minute that

1:10:56

it started, and the music man, these

1:10:58

shows, the minute they started, you just

1:11:00

knew that you were going to have

1:11:02

a glorious time. Wow. So you got

1:11:04

to see, so you saw Chita Rivera

1:11:06

play the role of Anita, because she's

1:11:09

the one who played it on Broadway,

1:11:11

right? I know. So what year was

1:11:13

that that that jubular? Oh, what year

1:11:15

was it on Broadway? I'm going to

1:11:17

guess that it was in the late

1:11:19

50s. I don't know that for sure,

1:11:22

but I would guess that because the

1:11:24

movie... of Westside

1:11:26

story came out in 1961.

1:11:28

Right. So it had to

1:11:30

be before then. So here

1:11:33

was it. I was working

1:11:35

at ABC at that time

1:11:37

and doing summer replacement. I

1:11:39

was a replacement for somebody's

1:11:41

secretary. And so I was

1:11:44

listening, he had a telephone

1:11:46

call and the call came

1:11:48

and it was like, yet

1:11:50

ticket it is going to

1:11:52

be it smash hit you

1:11:55

know get the get tickets

1:11:57

so what we did and

1:11:59

oh my god yeah so

1:12:01

so many things so many

1:12:03

things What else did you

1:12:06

say? Oh my gosh. I

1:12:08

saw Waiting for Godot with

1:12:10

all these off-Broadway things and

1:12:12

that had, who was a

1:12:15

lion, Bertlaur, Bertlaur, and Ziro

1:12:17

Mastel in something called Rhinoceros,

1:12:19

which so many wonderful things

1:12:21

that I saw at that

1:12:23

time. Yeah. Did Westside's story,

1:12:26

um, Did that

1:12:28

impact your impression of sort

1:12:30

of the Latin community at

1:12:32

that time? Did the show

1:12:34

have impact on you from

1:12:36

a cultural point of view

1:12:38

as you considered the commune,

1:12:40

the Latin community in New

1:12:42

York? It did. It, it,

1:12:45

it, it, um, how to

1:12:47

say this, you know, la

1:12:49

casual. sort of taught

1:12:51

me about homosexual love. It made

1:12:53

me see that it was real.

1:12:55

I mean, that made me understand

1:12:58

it. And the Latin community, the

1:13:00

sort of pride that they had

1:13:02

in the, and the struggle that

1:13:04

they had, I sort of knew

1:13:06

it, but it was, yes, it

1:13:09

was a way to understand it,

1:13:11

it was a way to know

1:13:13

it. Yeah. Yeah. It was a

1:13:15

very powerful work of art. That's

1:13:18

true. Yeah. Yeah. Great,

1:13:20

Mommy. Well, thank you so much. I'm

1:13:22

so happy to talk to you about

1:13:24

these little things. So great to talk

1:13:26

to you about these things, too. And

1:13:28

my poetry group was together yesterday, and

1:13:30

they all said, he said, you're a

1:13:33

celebrity now. You are mommy everybody is

1:13:35

crazy about you. I said well you

1:13:37

know it's just regular conversations that Julie

1:13:39

and I have and I said now

1:13:41

I actually don't want to get off

1:13:43

the phone she always says well okay

1:13:45

then less enough. I'm like a therapist

1:13:47

who goes okay well I'm afraid our

1:13:50

time is up. Exactly, exactly. next

1:13:52

time! Until next

1:13:54

time, dear patient! dear patient.

1:13:56

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, much love. Love

1:13:58

Love you, mummy. Talk

1:14:00

Talk to you

1:14:02

later. Okay. Bye. bye. Bye. And

1:14:05

before we go, dear before

1:14:07

we go, dear listeners,

1:14:09

if you or

1:14:11

someone you know is

1:14:13

in emotional distress or

1:14:15

thinking about suicide, you

1:14:18

can call our call our

1:14:20

text 988 to access a

1:14:22

trained crisis counselor. There's

1:14:32

more Wiser Than Me Than

1:14:34

Me with Lemonada You can

1:14:36

listen to every episode of every

1:14:38

episode of season 3, ad Subscribers also

1:14:41

get access to exclusive bonus

1:14:43

interview excerpts from each episode. each

1:14:45

Subscribe now by clicking on

1:14:47

the on Me Wiser Than Me in

1:14:49

the logo in the app and

1:14:51

then hitting the the button. Make

1:14:54

sure you're following Wiser Than

1:14:56

Me on social media. We're

1:14:58

on Instagram and TikTok and

1:15:00

Than Me Wiser we're on Facebook

1:15:03

at Wiser Than Me Than Me

1:15:05

podcast. Than Me is a

1:15:07

production of Lemonada Media of and

1:15:09

hosted by me, and hosted by

1:15:11

This show is produced by This

1:15:14

show is produced by Chrisy Pease, Jamila Zerah and

1:15:16

Alex McCowan, and Hall is a Brad

1:15:18

producer. consulting is VP of

1:15:20

New is VP of our SVP of

1:15:22

our SVP and Production is Steve Nelson.

1:15:25

Executive are Paula Kaplan, Stephanie Woodles Jessica

1:15:27

Cordova Kramer, me. me. The The show

1:15:29

is mixed by Vince Evans with

1:15:31

help from James James Thanks to Will

1:15:33

and of course of mother, my

1:15:36

Judith Judith Bowles. Follow than Me wherever

1:15:38

you get your your podcast. if

1:15:40

there's a wise old lady

1:15:42

in your life, your up. up.

1:15:54

Hey Wiser Than Me listeners, we we want to

1:15:56

hear from you you by just answering a

1:15:59

few questions on our listeners. survey, you can

1:16:01

You can share feedback about show content

1:16:03

you'd like to see in the

1:16:05

future, see and help us think about

1:16:07

what brands would serve you best. what

1:16:09

And even better, once you've completed the

1:16:11

survey, you can enter for a

1:16:14

chance to win a $100 you enter for a

1:16:16

chance to survey is short and sweet

1:16:18

and will help us play ads you

1:16:20

don't want to skip, and keep

1:16:22

bringing you content you love. you don't go

1:16:24

to skip and.com you survey. love. Just go to lemon out

1:16:26

of slash survey.