0:00

The We Are LA Tech

0:02

Dot Club Experience Club has

0:04

existed for 10 years now,

0:06

and over 400 activities later,

0:08

we have unified founders, investors,

0:10

engineers, product people, designers, all

0:13

enthusiastic about building in LA.

0:15

They've gone skydiving, clay pigeon

0:17

shooting, horseback riding, private dinners,

0:19

whiskey tasting, hikes, and the

0:21

list goes on. If you'd

0:24

like to accelerate business rapporteur

0:26

building within the Los Angeles

0:28

Tech community. at introvert comfortable

0:30

events. Simply go to we

0:32

are LA Tech Dot Club.

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That's we are LA Tech

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Dot Club to find out

0:39

more. Part of the magic

0:41

in that is that the

0:43

person on the other side

0:46

who's receiving advice. The tables

0:48

could turn and they could

0:50

get through this issue and

0:52

then their experience becomes the

0:54

next person's playbook. It's just

0:56

an empowering feeling when you're

0:59

like, oh wait, this is

1:01

just a regular person, but

1:04

they're helping me unlock

1:06

my best self. Maybe I

1:08

could do that for someone

1:11

else. The show means

1:13

a lot to me.

1:15

The reason why I

1:18

wanted to create the

1:20

Women in Tech show

1:23

is I wanted to

1:25

create a positive

1:28

piece of content,

1:31

something where people

1:33

can listen and say,

1:36

if she can do

1:38

it, so can I.

1:40

Melissa, hello. Hi, thank you. Love

1:42

the energetic welcome. Oh my God, I'm

1:45

really, really excited for you to share

1:47

about your company, fellow, because I'm so

1:49

into well-being and I think it's an

1:51

important part of being a leader, being

1:53

a good person, just all the things.

1:56

So go ahead to kick things off,

1:58

tell us a little bit of. about

2:00

who you are and what you

2:02

do? Yeah, my name's Alyssa, as

2:04

you know now, and I'm the

2:06

co-founder and CEO of Fellow, which

2:08

means I'm here to kind of

2:10

unleash the superpowers of everyone on

2:12

the team. And we're building kind

2:14

of the next way to get

2:17

support for things that you're going

2:19

through. So. If you're stuck or

2:21

in a situation that you're not

2:23

sure how to navigate, you might

2:25

find yourself sifting through redid threads

2:27

or getting lost in Facebook groups.

2:29

And we really want to create

2:31

a way to tap into the

2:33

accumulated wisdom of humanity. So we've

2:35

built a place, an app that

2:37

you can go to with any

2:39

issue that you're dealing with and

2:41

find someone who's on the other

2:43

side of the issue who can

2:46

lend a listening ear or helping

2:48

hand and provide advice and provide

2:50

advice and guidance. Give us, so

2:52

we really get the visual of

2:54

it, give us a use case,

2:56

somebody who uses that, even make

2:58

up a name, or maybe it's

3:00

somebody real, and what was their

3:02

experience. Yeah, so one of the

3:04

first customers that I had the

3:06

privilege of chatting with came onto

3:08

our app. She was an Asian

3:10

woman in a relationship with an

3:12

Indian man and as a result

3:14

of their relationship her partner became

3:16

estranged from his family. There were

3:18

just differences of culture and religion

3:20

that they were having difficulty kind

3:22

of navigating. This customer, which we

3:24

call finders on our platform, this

3:26

finder came and came to the

3:29

platform and found a fellow. A

3:31

gentleman who had the same religious

3:33

and cultural identity as her partner,

3:35

and she scheduled time to chat

3:37

with him, and through the course

3:39

of an hour-long conversation, she unlocked

3:41

this new understanding of where her

3:43

partner's family was coming from, maybe

3:45

what their reservations were, apprehensions were,

3:47

and walked away with some ideas

3:49

for how best to approach repairing

3:51

that relationship. And, gosh, after hearing.

3:53

that story, one of our first

3:55

customers that ever came to the

3:57

app, I was like, okay, I

3:59

want to hear that story like

4:01

1 million more times or a

4:03

billion more times. And so that's

4:05

kind of what gets us excited

4:07

and gets us out about every

4:09

morning to build this. I really

4:12

deeply resonate with that. The thing

4:14

that I've been working on is

4:16

cultivating compassion and understanding and without

4:18

getting into the whole experience I've

4:20

been going through, I think what

4:22

you just shared. is essential for

4:24

all of us to be able

4:26

to access in order to have

4:28

stronger relationships and have a better

4:30

understanding of why we have the

4:32

relationships that we have. And so

4:34

to be able to tap into

4:36

fellow and gain access to that,

4:38

it's a very difficult journey to

4:40

discover compassion. Yeah, I think, you

4:42

know, the fact is that the

4:44

world is getting more complicated, more

4:46

volatile, more stressful, more traumatic. day

4:48

by day. It's just kind of

4:50

an unfortunate truth. And simultaneously, people

4:52

are navigating that complicated world more

4:55

and more alone and isolated. And

4:57

to be able to kind of

4:59

start to think about how to

5:01

fix that, I mean, it's going

5:03

to take a big toolkit to

5:05

fix that issue. But one of

5:07

the ways that we really think

5:09

is so important is just sort

5:11

of de-stigmatizing getting help. that comes

5:13

with self-compassion and compassion for others.

5:15

Unlocking people's vulnerability because that you

5:17

have to show up from a

5:19

vulnerable place to really be open

5:21

to the understanding and the guidance

5:23

that another person can provide. But

5:25

that's really kind of the big

5:27

vision for fellow is just to

5:29

make sure that people aren't navigating

5:31

these situations alone and feeling like

5:33

that's the only way. Being a

5:35

first-time founder in Fellow, I'm so

5:37

excited to dive into that. What

5:40

inspired you to create Fellow, you

5:42

have a deep history in tech

5:44

with Uber, and I really wanted

5:46

to make a note that way...

5:48

back in your history? You worked

5:50

with Onion, so does that mean

5:52

you're superbly funny as well? No,

5:54

actually I had arguably the least

5:56

funny job at the Onion. I

5:58

led the finance team, which was

6:00

a team of one myself, and

6:02

I was helping reshape the business

6:04

model and figure out how to

6:06

shift from kind of the era

6:08

of print into the era of

6:10

digital. But it did come with

6:12

some awesome perks, like sitting next

6:14

to really funny people. And we

6:16

got access to all these underground

6:18

comedy shows in Chicago. And it

6:20

was just like such a fun

6:23

scene to be a part of.

6:25

So I have no shame in

6:27

saying I had the most boring

6:29

job at the Onion and was

6:31

happy to just be along for

6:33

the ride. I mean humor is

6:35

such an important part of wellness.

6:37

Walk us through your tech journey

6:39

leading you to be inspired to

6:41

create fellow. Where were you before

6:43

that that started to cultivate the

6:45

curiosity to become a builder yourself?

6:47

Yeah, I had kind of come

6:49

up, my first couple jobs out

6:51

of college were a little bit

6:53

more traditional and they were just

6:55

kind of boring. I didn't really

6:57

see a lot of room for

6:59

creativity or innovation and things moved

7:01

really slowly. One of my like

7:03

combination strengths and weaknesses depending on

7:05

the day and how you look

7:08

at it is I'm impatient. I

7:10

don't like to sit around and

7:12

wait for things to happen. I

7:14

like to make them happen quickly

7:16

most of the time. And so,

7:18

you know, I was born and

7:20

raised in the Midwest, like the

7:22

tech startup scene was not something

7:24

that was top of mind for

7:26

me, but as I got established

7:28

in Chicago, I started getting kind

7:30

of tapped into the tech scene

7:32

here and was like, oh, what

7:34

is this? Tech, this seems like

7:36

it moves at the pace that

7:38

I want to move at in

7:40

my life. I had been using

7:42

Uber, I was kind of an

7:44

early adopter of the Uber app

7:46

and I saw a job that...

7:48

of the 10 skills that you

7:51

needed, I had maybe two of

7:53

them. But I was like, you

7:55

know what, I love the product,

7:57

I'm super passionate, I'm smart, I

7:59

could learn new things, like let

8:01

me go, let me go put

8:03

my hat in the ring. And

8:05

I did, and got a job

8:07

kind of on the ground floor

8:09

of the earliest stage of Uber

8:11

back when it was just black

8:13

cars on demand, just rolled my

8:15

sleeves up and got in the

8:17

mix, and it was a learning

8:19

experience every day, just new challenges,

8:21

flying your way, long hours, but

8:23

it was totally worth it, because

8:25

we were growing and building a

8:27

product that people loved. When Uber

8:29

first came out, it was such

8:31

an exciting time and innovation. I

8:34

remember I was in Texas and

8:36

I was having lunch with a

8:38

girlfriend of mine and I ordered

8:40

a black car to pick her

8:42

up to like impress her and

8:44

surprise her. She's like, how like

8:46

there was such a mystery how

8:48

like this amazing luxury car could

8:50

just appear at such an affordable

8:52

rate. Yeah, it was it was

8:54

awesome. I remember it was like

8:56

I was the party trick at

8:58

the parties right? It was like

9:00

oh let me just open this

9:02

app and and we used to

9:04

as early employees we got like

9:06

a ton of Uber credits every

9:08

month so we got to roll

9:10

around for free with our friends

9:12

and we thought we were really

9:14

cool. That really kind of cemented

9:16

me in this consumer land. Like

9:19

I just love building things that

9:21

I can use and that my

9:23

friends and family can use and

9:25

and even though it comes with

9:27

sometimes the you become the the

9:29

support line like hey I had

9:31

about Uber ride the other day

9:33

or you know I had this

9:35

issue with the product that you

9:37

know you and your company are

9:39

building it's totally worth it to

9:41

kind of touch and feel the

9:43

thing that you work so hard

9:45

to to build every day. So

9:47

at Uber I spent a couple

9:49

years in the Chicago market actually

9:51

building that black our business and

9:53

then subsequently UberX kind of from

9:55

the ground up with an awesome

9:57

team in Chicago and then moved

9:59

out to San Francisco and joined

10:02

a tiny little team with the

10:04

remit of figuring out what was

10:06

next for Uber and we had

10:08

a bunch of different interesting experiments

10:10

going on back then. We had

10:12

like a roving corner store that

10:14

was in Washington DC. We were

10:16

doing courier services in New York

10:18

City, moving around legal documents and

10:20

apartment keys and things like that.

10:22

But ultimately we landed on food

10:24

delivery. We weren't the first people

10:26

to ever enable food to be

10:28

delivered to your house. But we

10:30

were the first to have this

10:32

sort of national and actually global

10:34

network of cars already on the

10:36

road around the corner from every

10:38

restaurant. So we kind of like.

10:40

put those two things together and

10:42

built what is now known as

10:44

UberEads. And that was another kind

10:47

of zero to one experience that

10:49

after that I was like, okay,

10:51

not only do I know that

10:53

I love consumer, but I know

10:55

I just love building from the

10:57

ground up. Just the uncertainty of

10:59

it all, the dynamic nature, things

11:01

changing every day, building the teams

11:03

that then go scale up what

11:05

you've imagined. Just I fell in

11:07

love with that. And so I've

11:09

been kind of. seeking early stage

11:11

opportunities ever since. After each, I

11:13

went over to a climate tech

11:15

startup called Mill on the founding

11:17

team. whole new experience in kind

11:19

of hardware land and then I

11:21

met my now co-founder who came

11:23

to me with kind of the

11:25

seed crystal of the idea for

11:27

fellow and I was super excited

11:30

to get back to my marketplace

11:32

building roots but do it kind

11:34

of for the good of humanity

11:36

and tapping into this relative expertise

11:38

in this untapped wisdom that I

11:40

get so excited about. Was it

11:42

your co-founder who had the initial

11:44

inspiration or did you create the

11:46

idea together? a couple co-founders and

11:48

they had navigated sobriety journeys and

11:50

had some some challenges with that

11:52

and they see themselves as kind

11:54

of like well-resourced men and they're

11:56

like look if we have if

11:58

we had challenges getting the support

12:00

we needed going through recovery other

12:02

people probably have even bigger challenges

12:04

and so they came to me

12:06

with this idea of you know

12:08

couldn't we figure out a way

12:10

to tap into all the experiences

12:13

from people who've already gotten sober

12:15

and stayed sober and bring those

12:17

online. You know, AA has done

12:19

an excellent job at this and

12:21

there are still barriers for people

12:23

getting to an AA meeting in

12:25

person, finding a sponsor that they

12:27

have good chemistry with, making the

12:29

time in their schedule. There's just

12:31

not as much flexibility in that

12:33

model as effective as it is.

12:35

So that was sort of kind

12:37

of the very very first building

12:39

block of the idea and they

12:41

came to me with that and

12:43

said like you can you can

12:45

build this marketplace right and I

12:47

said. We definitely can build this

12:49

and we should do it bigger

12:51

and better and be more inclusive

12:53

of all the challenges that are

12:55

facing people today. Of course, alcohol

12:58

use and substance use are among

13:00

those, but there are so many

13:02

other things that people are feeling

13:04

stuck or having challenges navigating and

13:06

why not build a more inclusive

13:08

platform that can be like the

13:10

place you think about going if

13:12

you're getting ready to navigate uncharted

13:14

waters. 100% there's so many different

13:16

angles of mental well-being and typically

13:18

when we think about mental well-being

13:20

it's you know going to therapy

13:22

or whatever working through past traumas

13:24

but I also think of mental

13:26

well-being is I think there's a

13:28

lot of things I've done in

13:30

my life to either keep myself

13:32

small or hold myself back and

13:34

there's such important work and it's

13:36

the essence of the show is

13:38

about believing that we have the

13:41

capability to go after our dreams,

13:43

to do that everything, it's what

13:45

you said, everything is possible. And

13:47

usually the thing in our way

13:49

isn't an obstacle, it's our own

13:51

mindset that gets in our way.

13:53

And if we don't do the

13:55

work, like having a resource like

13:57

fellow to support us to do

13:59

this work, we'll always get in

14:01

our own way from achieving the

14:03

life that we've genuinely deserve to

14:05

be living. And so. This is

14:07

why I've been really excited to

14:09

have you on the show because

14:11

I've been doing that work myself.

14:13

I see how difficult. it is,

14:15

how much I have to challenge

14:17

myself. And we need those resources

14:19

in place that are accessible in

14:21

order to live. An enjoyable life

14:23

we desire to live. Totally. And

14:26

I love one of the ways

14:28

that you describe the purpose of

14:30

this podcast. It's like, if she

14:32

can do it, so can I.

14:34

And like, that is the essence.

14:36

That's part of the essence of

14:38

what we're building in Fellow. One

14:40

of the really cool things about...

14:42

empowering a regular person, you know,

14:44

not someone who's had to go

14:46

to extensive schooling or get a

14:48

kind of unattainable license, but a

14:50

regular person vetting them and training

14:52

them and empowering them to provide

14:54

their guidance, their playbook, their expertise

14:56

to someone else. Part of the

14:58

magic in that is that the

15:00

person on the other side who's

15:02

receiving advice The tables could turn

15:04

and they could get through this

15:06

issue and then their experience becomes

15:09

the next person's playbook. It's just

15:11

an empowering feeling when you're like,

15:13

oh wait, this is just a

15:15

regular person, but they're helping me

15:17

unlock my best self. Maybe I

15:19

could do that for someone else.

15:21

100% give us a walkthrough. So

15:23

our listeners, they go to fellow,

15:25

they want to sign up. First

15:27

of all, how will they be

15:29

supported and then how do they

15:31

know who they're supported by as

15:33

a credible source to support them?

15:35

Right. So maybe I'll actually start

15:37

with the peers who are on

15:39

the platform giving support. We call

15:41

them fellows. And fellows, again, are

15:43

regular people, many of them. do

15:45

have prior experience, whether on a

15:47

professional or volunteer basis, like helping

15:49

others generally. But the regular people,

15:52

they come onto the platform. They

15:54

let us know what experiences they've

15:56

been through. They fill out an

15:58

application. We review that. We actually

16:00

do a zoom interview with them.

16:02

From there, we do a couple

16:04

of reference checks just to say,

16:06

hey, is this person someone you'd

16:08

go to to get advice? For

16:10

example, if you were going through

16:12

divorce. We vet the fellows that

16:14

way, then we provide them with

16:16

the training and an assessment and

16:18

an assessment. and to just make

16:20

sure they're able to show up

16:22

kind of in a structured way

16:24

that feels like they're gonna be

16:26

kind of a sturdy presence for

16:28

the person on the other side.

16:30

So that's how you know that

16:32

the person that you're connecting with

16:34

is legit, right? They've been through

16:37

this process. On the flip side,

16:39

as a customer, we call our

16:41

customers finders. If you're coming to

16:43

the, yeah, because they're here, they're

16:45

here to find a fellow, they're

16:47

here to find their way. And

16:49

we're also finding ourselves. Exactly, exactly.

16:51

As a finder you download the

16:53

app, you answer some questions. Right

16:55

now we have some more specific

16:57

use cases around drug use, alcohol

16:59

use, relationships, and parenting and topics

17:01

within those. But we're working actually

17:03

on building on a much broader

17:05

way for you to come with

17:07

any issue that you have. And

17:09

turns out a lot of these

17:11

issues are kind of like intertingled

17:13

with one another. So you come

17:15

in, you tell us a little

17:17

bit more about the situation you're

17:20

in. From there, you can go

17:22

and browse fellows that have relevant

17:24

experience. And then we also offer

17:26

the opportunity to get matched. So

17:28

we are, of course, as a

17:30

tech company, would be working on

17:32

training AI to help us with

17:34

doing those matches. But right now

17:36

we have a real human. She

17:38

used to be a therapist who's

17:40

on the other side. She's getting

17:42

to know our fellows. And she

17:44

is. calling you up or sending

17:46

you an email with personalized recommendations

17:48

based on what she knows about

17:50

both parties to make sure that

17:52

we can create a great match

17:54

that's going to be really valuable.

17:56

And how is this different than

17:58

therapy? Do we do this in

18:00

addition to therapy in lieu of

18:02

therapy? It totally depends on the

18:05

situation. I think there are a

18:07

lot of topics that we would

18:09

consider subclinical. You know, hey, for

18:11

example, I'm thinking about... quitting my

18:13

corporate job and like going out

18:15

and starting my own own company

18:17

right you don't necessarily need to

18:19

go see a therapist for that

18:21

if you're established with one and

18:23

and that's part of your conversation,

18:25

great. Like that's not off limits,

18:27

but you don't necessarily need to

18:29

go. Your first thought is, oh,

18:31

I need to go find a

18:33

therapist to talk through this with.

18:35

But you might want to talk

18:37

to someone else who's. made that

18:39

move before and understand kind of

18:41

what that process they went to,

18:43

what lessons they learned the hard

18:45

way, so maybe you can avoid

18:48

those. So for those kind of

18:50

subclinical issues, fellow could be kind

18:52

of a first stop or a

18:54

little bit of an upgrade from

18:56

those like endless credit threads or

18:58

Facebook groups or these other places

19:00

where there's just like you might

19:02

walk away with more questions and

19:04

answers. However, I just think back

19:06

to a time in my life

19:08

when I was... thinking about starting

19:10

to get pregnant and navigating an

19:12

infertility situation. And of course that

19:14

was a stressor, I was seeing

19:16

a therapist, we were talking about

19:18

the stresses of that, but she

19:20

wasn't able to give me the

19:22

playbook. I'm like, okay, here's how

19:24

you know the doctor is right.

19:26

And like, here's how you know

19:28

it steps to take, and here's

19:31

the questions to ask, and like,

19:33

here's your pep talk on going

19:35

in and doing your first procedure,

19:37

and doing your first procedure. supplemental

19:39

to a therapy relationship who's really

19:41

been in those shoes before and

19:43

who can be an open book

19:45

about their own experience feels like

19:47

a big unlock. And sometimes we

19:49

just want to a moat as

19:51

I... work on my growth, I

19:53

don't want to put so much

19:55

on my friends. We all have

19:57

our own lives going on. And

19:59

so I lean on, okay, well,

20:01

let me call my therapist, but

20:03

then that could get expensive. If

20:05

I just want to kind of

20:07

like get the energy out of

20:09

my system and don't want to

20:11

like emotionally vomit on my girlfriends,

20:13

it would be nice to have

20:16

an alternative that is an accepting

20:18

environment to just be able to

20:20

say. My day has been really

20:22

hard. Blah blah blah blah blah

20:24

blah blah blah blah. Okay, thanks.

20:26

Totally. Yeah, and actually we use

20:28

the term vent and validate like

20:30

that's that's one of the sort

20:32

of modes that we anticipate people

20:34

showing. up in as they just

20:36

want to vent and they want

20:38

their feelings to be validated. And

20:40

so we train the fellows to

20:42

show up in a way that's

20:44

supportive of that. But I think

20:46

the really interesting unlock with connecting

20:48

with someone who's been in your

20:50

shoes is it's a shortcut to

20:52

trust. You just know you're walking

20:54

into a no judgment zone, right?

20:56

You know, you've got great relationship

20:59

with your friends and family. But

21:01

do they really actually get this

21:03

kind of tricky situation that you're

21:05

going through that they've never been

21:07

in? Are you sure? There's not

21:09

going to be judgment or you're

21:11

not going to hold back for

21:13

a few or judgment. So this

21:15

is just like a really safe

21:17

judgment-free zone that is a nice

21:19

kind of third space between therapy

21:21

and friends and family. That feels

21:23

like it really fills a real

21:25

gap. I'm excited to become a

21:27

finder to cater to my entrepreneurial

21:29

traumas. The heaviness that takes the

21:31

lifestyle, it's very, I mean, obviously

21:33

you get it. We're a category

21:35

of highly misunderstood people of the

21:37

kind of emotional responsibility we have

21:39

for other people's lives and our

21:41

own dreams. It's just a lot.

21:44

So I'm excited to become a

21:46

finder even just for that. What

21:48

are the incentives of fellows to

21:50

become a fellow? We believe that

21:52

lived experience and sharing that is

21:54

valuable. And when we say that

21:56

is of value, we mean it.

21:58

And so when finders show up

22:00

to seek advice and to spend

22:02

time with a fellow, they pay

22:04

a certain amount based on the

22:06

amount of time they're spending. And

22:08

then the fellow gets the majority

22:10

of that passed to them for

22:12

providing that service. And we really

22:14

believe that that is so cool.

22:16

It's really cool. It's a little

22:18

bit of a paradigm shift because

22:20

a lot of times peer support

22:22

or support groups are seen as

22:24

volunteer things and that's great and

22:27

and and actually every fellow that

22:29

I've talked to has altruism kind

22:31

of at the core of their

22:33

motivation to be here and we

22:35

got to be really Like our

22:37

time is valuable. Everyone's time is

22:39

valuable. And when we say that,

22:41

like let's actually put our money

22:43

where our mouth is. And so

22:45

it's a much more affordable price

22:47

point than therapy. So we hope

22:49

that it can be more accessible

22:51

by a broader group of people.

22:53

But we are proud of the

22:55

fact that you paid to show

22:57

up. We actually believe that there

22:59

is proven science behind on the

23:01

finder side actually paying to show

23:03

up. Because then you've got skin

23:05

in the game. Then you're motivated

23:07

to be there. And you're going

23:10

to be there. more out of

23:12

that experience if you pay versus

23:14

if you showed up to a

23:16

free a free experience. And then

23:18

it's awesome to see fellows who

23:20

have, you know, been through stuff

23:22

in their life and they can

23:24

turn that into valuable asset for

23:26

someone else. It's amazing to see

23:28

them getting the financial benefit of

23:30

that. What really excites me at

23:32

my core about this model is

23:34

being, have you read the book

23:36

Give and Take by Adam Grant?

23:38

I haven't. So it talks about

23:40

there's two types of givers, self-sacrificing

23:42

givers and other-ish givers. And I

23:44

imagine most of the people who

23:46

are fellows. I'm just going to

23:48

assume most of them are probably

23:50

givers like in their day-to-day lives.

23:52

And self-sacrificing givers typically have no

23:55

boundaries and burnout and then other-ish

23:57

givers do so authentically give. And

23:59

to hear that you've created a

24:01

dynamic where all these beautiful, loving

24:03

people who just want to share

24:05

of themselves and support others are

24:07

also being valued economically is fucking

24:09

rad. Yeah, I mean, I totally

24:11

agree. I'm biased, of course, but

24:13

like I totally agree. And we've

24:15

just kind of naturally... built this

24:17

really diverse base of fellows. We

24:19

haven't gone out and said, oh,

24:21

we need this many women and

24:23

this many men or this many

24:25

in this. age group or whatever,

24:27

they just have shown up and

24:29

looked, come from different walks of

24:31

life, from different cultural, religious backgrounds

24:33

at different ages, different stages of

24:35

life. And it's amazing to see

24:38

the diversity there. And with that,

24:40

we actually have a ton of

24:42

them, a ton of our fellows

24:44

that say, hey, it's important to

24:46

me to be valued in this

24:48

endeavor. But I also want to

24:50

figure out how to pay it

24:52

forward. So one thing that we're

24:54

working on is enabling fellows to

24:56

donate their earnings either back into

24:58

the fellow system to subsidize fellow

25:00

for those who might not be

25:02

able to afford the entire price

25:04

point or to donate to their

25:06

favorite charity. And so it's just

25:08

cool to be able to then.

25:10

Again, value them economically, but then

25:12

they have the agency and how

25:14

they want to put that money

25:16

to use. That's so cool. Let's

25:18

talk about the logistics of Fellow.

25:20

How far along are you? Have

25:23

you raised money? Do you want

25:25

to raise money? All the things.

25:27

First of all, how far along

25:29

are you in the build? Is

25:31

it out of beta still in

25:33

beta? How many people are using

25:35

it? Yeah, we've been at this

25:37

for about a year. Our app

25:39

launched late fall last year. And

25:41

so we have an iOS app

25:43

and an Android app and you

25:45

can go download those today and

25:47

either sign up as a fellow

25:49

or finder. We've got. thousands of

25:51

people using the app and raised

25:53

a seed round at the end

25:55

of last year, which puts us

25:57

in really good shape. Now we're

25:59

really focused on taking that V1

26:01

of the experience, which is out

26:03

today and kind of upgrading it,

26:06

expanding upon it, we have the

26:08

benefit of so many engaged. customers

26:10

now both on the fellow and

26:12

finder side that we're learning so

26:14

much hey I wish it worked

26:16

this way or hey wouldn't it

26:18

be cool if you could watch

26:20

a video of your fellow before

26:22

you decide to schedule with him

26:24

that's an amazing idea let's go

26:26

build that so we're working on

26:28

kind of building the v2 version

26:30

of the product experience right now

26:32

and also building our team. We're

26:34

a pretty small scrappy team still.

26:36

We're about eight full-time employees and

26:38

then have some amazing. fractional and

26:40

freelance resources that we've been able

26:42

to tap for their kind of

26:44

specific expertise but looking to to

26:46

build and invest in an awesome

26:49

team that's like just really passionate

26:51

about about bringing this thing to

26:53

its fullest potential. And you said

26:55

you have two co-founders and so

26:57

what's the relationship with your co-founders

26:59

meaning like what is the specialty

27:01

of each founder? Yeah, I'm the

27:03

one kind of in the business

27:05

on a day-to-day basis. My other

27:07

co-founders are really great at kind

27:09

of like keeping tabs on what's

27:11

going on outside of fellow, right?

27:13

Is there competition? What are the

27:15

partnership opportunities? What is the industry

27:17

saying? How can we tap into

27:19

other change makers in this space

27:21

and and combine forces to level

27:23

up all of our progress? So

27:25

that's kind of how we... sort

27:27

of divide and conquer amongst the

27:29

three of us. And who heads

27:31

the code? So yeah, right now

27:34

we have a head of product

27:36

and analytics who oversees all of

27:38

our technical capabilities and knew him

27:40

from our early Uber days. So

27:42

he has a lot of marketplace

27:44

building experience as well and he's

27:46

just been awesome in helping bring

27:48

this thing to life. Do you

27:50

happen to know why your team

27:52

chose how to build in the

27:54

way that they built, meaning an

27:56

app versus a website that can

27:58

display as an app and what

28:00

code language? Do you happen to

28:02

know why the choices were made

28:04

that were made? Yeah, yeah, I

28:06

mean, I was around the table

28:08

when choices were made and I

28:10

would say at this point, some

28:12

of those choices in hindsight. might

28:14

have been better. And so we're,

28:17

you know, adjusting as we go

28:19

as you learn kind of what's

28:21

most important and what you want

28:23

to optimize for. We originally built

28:25

native iOS and Android apps and

28:27

we were finding that just our

28:29

development velocity was being held up

28:31

by maintaining those two separate code

28:33

bases. We also got feedback from

28:35

our early customers that they wanted

28:37

a more full featured web experience

28:39

because we're also accustomed to doing

28:41

video calls on our laptop instead

28:43

of kind of holding our phone

28:45

in front of our face for

28:47

an hour. We recently migrated everything

28:49

to react and react native so

28:51

that we can maintain one code

28:53

base and increase our development velocity,

28:55

get these features that we're so

28:57

excited out faster, be able to

28:59

iterate on those better. One of

29:02

my kind of... trademarks is to

29:04

lob out like a controversial idea

29:06

and just kind of put it

29:08

out there to check the temperature

29:10

in the room. And one of

29:12

the things I mentioned from time

29:14

to time is like, hey guys,

29:16

do we really even need apps?

29:18

Should we have these? And of

29:20

course, like, everyone's knee jerk reaction

29:22

because we have them is, well,

29:24

yeah, we do, right? But I

29:26

always like to make sure we're...

29:28

reassessing and going back to first

29:30

principles because it's a shame to

29:32

get bogged down by kind of

29:34

sunk costs like well we already

29:36

have these so might as well

29:38

you know keep maintaining them and

29:40

iterating on them but ultimately we

29:42

have decided that right now at

29:45

least the app provides kind of

29:47

a superior experience one push notifications

29:49

are just one example of that

29:51

you know with transactional messages and

29:53

a check-in reminders and follow-ups to

29:55

rate your fellow. Like those are

29:57

all better kind of done through

29:59

push notification versus through like the

30:01

75th email from a company you're

30:03

going to get in your inbox

30:05

today. That's one of the reasons

30:07

that we've decided to continue down

30:09

the the path of building and

30:11

iterating on our mobile apps, but

30:13

really excited to get the web

30:15

functionality out, which should be done

30:17

in the next couple of weeks.

30:19

So exciting. And this is your

30:21

first time being a founder, correct?

30:23

teams but your first time being

30:25

a founder yourself. One of the

30:28

listener questions is one, what is

30:30

an obstacle that you've successfully overcome

30:32

and how did you overcome it?

30:34

I mean, I'm pausing because there's

30:36

just been a lot. It just

30:38

seems like there's something every day,

30:40

right? I feel like I'm trying

30:42

to figure out, try to think

30:44

of one that is, you know,

30:46

worthy of a story. I think,

30:48

you know, fundraising is always, I

30:50

wouldn't say an obstacle, but it's

30:52

a big lift, right? And it

30:54

takes a lot of time and

30:56

energy and effort that then you're

30:58

not spending on. your product and

31:00

your customers. And so it's sort

31:02

of like you're doing two jobs

31:04

at once for that period of

31:06

fundraising. I would say we tried

31:08

to really make it as kind

31:10

of efficient as we could and

31:13

we were fortunate enough to be

31:15

able to really tap into kind

31:17

of a lot of friends and

31:19

family and people in our network

31:21

who were excited. I think the

31:23

upshot or the upside of what

31:25

we're building is like. I haven't

31:27

really ever told someone the idea

31:29

for fellow and had someone say

31:31

like, meh, I don't think that's

31:33

going to be very useful. Like

31:35

everyone can think of like five

31:37

different people who could use fellow

31:39

themselves typically included. And so that

31:41

that helped kind of streamline the

31:43

fundraising process when people can see

31:45

themselves and their mom or their

31:47

sister or their son using fellow

31:49

then that that streamlines it but

31:51

you know then there's just all

31:53

of the the long tail the

31:56

paperwork all the documentation that goes

31:58

into it and man I got

32:00

to say I felt really good

32:02

when that last signature was on

32:04

the last page of the last

32:06

document that felt like a big

32:08

a big hurdle to get over.

32:10

That's beautiful. I'm curious. I genuinely

32:12

don't know. Does Fellow have a

32:14

podcast? Because I feel like Fellow

32:16

should have a podcast if you

32:18

don't. We don't. yet and I

32:20

think about it all the time

32:22

I listen to podcasts a non-stop

32:24

when I'm in the car doing

32:26

laundry whatever running and I love

32:28

hearing people's stories and especially as

32:30

I've gotten to know many of

32:32

our fellows it's just like wow

32:34

their stories just give you goosebumps

32:36

and we could literally probably just

32:38

have our fellows record themselves telling

32:41

their stories and that would be

32:43

just like so interesting and empowering

32:45

and inspiring. And so I brought

32:47

it up a few times. I

32:49

think you know this best. Like

32:51

if you're gonna do a podcast

32:53

and do it well, you don't

32:55

just show up and like have

32:57

a chit chat with someone and

32:59

then post it, right? It takes

33:01

a lot more planning and effort

33:03

and I think we want to

33:05

go down that path when we're

33:07

resourced to do it the right

33:09

way. We don't want to put

33:11

our... you know, we want to

33:13

we want to help our fellows

33:15

put their best foot forward and

33:17

so we're just not resourced well

33:19

enough to consider like starting that

33:21

now but it's certainly on the

33:24

radar because these stories are just

33:26

unbelievable. Yeah, I'll tell you what

33:28

inspired the question. I listened to

33:30

this podcast called You Make Sense

33:32

and I listened to it in

33:34

a therapeutic manner. I don't listen

33:36

for entertainment value. I'm like trying

33:38

to work through something and I

33:40

sent this podcast to a girlfriend

33:42

of mine who noticed she has

33:44

a pattern in who she dates

33:46

that she wants to let go

33:48

of. So now we've both been

33:50

listening to the podcast and we

33:52

talk about it. And I feel

33:54

like this girlfriend that I'm thinking

33:56

of would love knowing about fellow.

33:58

I'm actually going to send to

34:00

send it to send it to

34:02

her to her. after the interview,

34:04

but that's what made me think

34:07

of it because both she and

34:09

I are listening to this podcast

34:11

in this therapeutic, you know, intention.

34:13

So I could picture listening to

34:15

the fellow stories and feeling a

34:17

sense of healing as I'm listening.

34:19

Yeah, totally. And I think there's

34:21

just something so powerful about knowing

34:23

that you're not alone. And I

34:25

think, again, this goes back to

34:27

what you're doing with this podcast,

34:29

but just hearing other people's stories

34:31

and people getting through struggles and

34:33

coming out the other side stronger

34:35

and better, even if it's not

34:37

specifically the issue that you're facing

34:39

in front of you, just hearing

34:41

about people's paths and the way

34:43

that they reframe their problems, the

34:45

way that they... ask for help

34:47

and get support, like there's just

34:49

always a kernel of inspiration and

34:52

learning there that happens. We have

34:54

so many wonderful listeners around the

34:56

world. If you had one ask

34:58

that would help propel the successive

35:00

fellow, what would that ask be?

35:02

You never know. Yeah, I mean,

35:04

really at a high level, the

35:06

goal here is to destigmatize getting

35:08

help. We just need to stop

35:10

pretending. doing great. It's okay if

35:12

we're struggling. It's okay if we're

35:14

navigating a problem. It's okay if

35:16

we're feeling stuck or uncertain. And

35:18

that is kind of the macro

35:20

shift that I want to see

35:22

in humanity and you know fellow

35:24

is going to do its little

35:26

part in in making that happen.

35:28

But for fellow to really succeed

35:30

we need people to feel okay

35:32

saying I'm not okay and and

35:35

so I think that's what I

35:37

try to do being really open

35:39

and vulnerable with the struggles that

35:41

I've been through in my life

35:43

even when they're kind of taboo

35:45

to talk about especially in a

35:47

professional setting like we got to

35:49

start chipping away at the stigma

35:51

I think that's that's the biggest

35:53

thing. Another question and it's something

35:55

that comes up a lot is

35:57

in my tech companies I've always

35:59

had co-founders and there's different kinds

36:01

of you know, relationships with the

36:03

co-founders, how have you found to

36:05

be the most successful communication between

36:07

the three of you? What guidance

36:09

can you give us in this

36:11

co-foundership that has led to a

36:13

really efficient working co-founder team? Yeah,

36:15

I think the big thing that

36:17

goes into that and frankly I

36:20

think this is the biggest thing

36:22

that goes into great teams is

36:24

vulnerability. It's showing up it's being

36:26

able to say you know what

36:28

I'm not sure or this isn't

36:30

my strength or I've never done

36:32

this before and I think that

36:34

earlier in my career I kind

36:36

of thought that everyone would respect

36:38

me more if I Faked it

36:40

till I made it or you

36:42

know, just like pretended to know

36:44

what people were talking about or

36:46

what the right answer was and

36:48

showing up Looking confident even if

36:50

I didn't feel confident and I

36:52

think my biggest unlock as a

36:54

professional as I've as I've kind

36:56

of gotten some years of experience

36:58

under my belt is just showing

37:00

up and with all my shortcomings

37:03

being open and honest about that

37:05

and I think That's how my

37:07

co-founders and I show up with

37:09

each other and that's how we've

37:11

been able to kind of find

37:13

our lanes and figure out Okay,

37:15

this is going to be the

37:17

best at this and so let's

37:19

let's get out of her way

37:21

here But she's going to need

37:23

support over here because this isn't

37:25

something she's quite as comfortable with

37:27

So that's been a big a

37:29

big key to our our working

37:31

relationship a hundred percent to level

37:33

up on that. What's the best

37:35

piece of advice you've got in

37:37

throughout your career that's really helped

37:39

accelerate you? Yeah, it's kind of

37:41

related honestly. It wasn't someone saying

37:43

like, Alyssa, listen here to this

37:46

piece of advice, but I got

37:48

pulled into some meetings that I

37:50

would say, you know, at the

37:52

time or above my pay grade

37:54

at Uber Eat's with executives from

37:56

big multinational restaurant chains. And I

37:58

kind of felt like, gosh, do

38:00

I have any business being around

38:02

this table? What I realize my

38:04

supervisor or manager or leader was

38:06

doing at the time was exposing

38:08

me to the fact that even

38:10

in these rooms where these people

38:12

seem so accomplished and have been

38:14

working. for decades longer, no one

38:16

has all the answers. And that's

38:18

not what's expected. It's not expected

38:20

that you show up and have

38:22

all the answers. It's expected that

38:24

you show up, think critically about

38:26

the situation, remain curious, ask questions.

38:28

And I think the advice that

38:31

my boss at the time was

38:33

giving me through that experience was

38:35

like, you can do this too,

38:37

right? you know, you're curious, you

38:39

are a critical thinker, you show

38:41

up and, you know, genuinely want

38:43

to learn about a situation or

38:45

about a person, and so, like,

38:47

don't let your fear of not

38:49

having the answer stand in your

38:51

way of showing up and being

38:53

around the table. And sometimes we

38:55

undervalue our gut and our instinct

38:57

and our intuition, and... That is

38:59

our compass, our GPS, to always

39:01

having the best answer. Totally. And

39:03

I've gotten way more comfortable in

39:05

the last few years of following

39:07

my gut. And I think it

39:09

comes with experience, but then it

39:11

also just comes with realizing that

39:14

you're going to make mistakes, and

39:16

like most of the time it's

39:18

going to be okay. And once

39:20

you've made enough mistakes and you

39:22

realize that you come out the

39:24

other side just fine, then it

39:26

becomes more comfortable making those mistakes.

39:28

And I think what I do.

39:30

Now a lot more is think

39:32

about, you know, if I'm wrong,

39:34

because when you're following your gut,

39:36

there's a chance that you're wrong.

39:38

Even when you're following the data,

39:40

there's a chance that something's wrong.

39:42

But like when you're following your

39:44

gut, that's more top of mind.

39:46

When you're following your gut, you

39:48

could be wrong. If I'm wrong.

39:50

How bad is this going to

39:52

be? And usually the answer is

39:54

like not as bad as you

39:56

think it is. And so, but

39:59

you just, it's just uncomfortable because

40:01

we're so programmed to be right

40:03

and to be confident and show

40:05

up with all the answers. And

40:07

it's sort of like an un

40:09

learning of that I think has

40:11

sort of unleashed my next level

40:13

of confidence as a leader. Totally.

40:15

And it makes sense. naturally want

40:17

to feel comfortable, but just because

40:19

we're in the discomfort doesn't mean

40:21

anything's wrong. It just means we're

40:23

trying something new. Exactly. Yeah, and

40:25

being able to sit with that

40:27

discomfort is a thing that takes

40:29

work and that's where the meditation,

40:31

the mindfulness for me, like a

40:33

really hard workout, a cold plunge.

40:35

I'm like... Dang if I can

40:37

sit in this ice bath for

40:39

three minutes this morning like I

40:42

can go do anything today. You

40:44

know I can't even past 20

40:46

seconds. You just got to find

40:48

the right the right song that's

40:50

about three minutes long and then

40:52

just sing it. That's a good

40:54

track. Who are your mentors or

40:56

resources throughout your professional journey? You've

40:58

done so many cool things and

41:00

so many roles with a ton

41:02

of responsibility and a ton of

41:04

forward thinking and now being a

41:06

founder, marketplaces, if you succeeded a

41:08

marketplace, it is the most successful

41:10

type of company that you could

41:12

have. Who do you learn from?

41:14

Where do you go to to

41:16

to continue to increase your skills?

41:18

Yeah, I study marketplaces from every

41:20

angle. I read anything that's out

41:22

there that's on the subject. There's

41:25

a community group called Everything Marketplace

41:27

is kind of like that new

41:29

age industry group that I'm a

41:31

member of and people are just

41:33

very... open and honest about the

41:35

struggle. I mean, building a marketplace

41:37

can be incredibly successful, but laying

41:39

those first few bricks of a

41:41

marketplace can be incredibly difficult and

41:43

incubating that kind of early atomic

41:45

network. So always learning. I would

41:47

say, you know, I actually haven't

41:49

really had like a mentor that

41:51

has been like a through lines

41:53

through my career. I've been, I've

41:55

surrounded myself with just really smart.

41:57

people and I haven't been afraid

41:59

to ask dumb questions to those

42:01

people. And so I'm like anyone

42:03

can be a mentor to me.

42:05

right if I'm willing to ask

42:07

them a question and and they

42:10

have a bit more knowledge or

42:12

experience or insight on that topic

42:14

so but I do I do

42:16

study marketplaces there's a newsletter that

42:18

I read that comes out every

42:20

couple weeks that I read every

42:22

word of a few times over

42:24

that's just really insightful it's called

42:26

take rate it's a sub stack

42:28

newsletter and it's just it's just

42:30

chock full of amazing resources but

42:32

yeah I would say like I

42:34

try to find mentorship in everyone.

42:36

I think our customers can be

42:38

our mentors. My mom has been

42:40

my mentor. She had an amazing

42:42

career and you know especially when

42:44

it comes to building teams or

42:46

handling maybe tricky personnel situations in

42:48

the past like she's been definitely

42:50

on my speed dial list. And

42:53

then you know lately it's been

42:55

other friends of mine or ex-collegs

42:57

of mine that are on the

42:59

founders journey as well and just

43:01

showing up and saying like... Does

43:03

anyone know we're supposed to do

43:05

for taxes this year? Like, or

43:07

was I supposed to fill out

43:09

this form? And just being able

43:11

to ask the silly questions. Do

43:13

you think your mom was a

43:15

huge inspiration in becoming the driven

43:17

woman you are today? For sure.

43:19

Yeah, I mean, my mom was,

43:21

my mom just was always working

43:23

her ass off and she was

43:25

also an amazing mom. And so

43:27

she set the bar high and

43:29

I'm just like every day showing

43:31

up trying to do both of

43:33

those things. So cool. And a

43:35

couple quick fire questions, your favorite

43:38

like app or website, your go-to

43:40

could be anything. You know, I'm

43:42

like a peloton girly. I just

43:44

find that they have just wrapped

43:46

me in their warm arms of

43:48

content and motivation and habit tracking

43:50

and all the things. I love

43:52

measuring my progress. I'm very goal

43:54

oriented. So I'm a do the

43:56

peloton bike, the peloton tread, like

43:58

all the strength, the meditation, all

44:00

that stuff. I just am a

44:02

big peloton fan. Nice, I dig

44:04

that. And a book you recommend

44:06

we... My favorite one recently is

44:08

called The Art and Science of

44:10

Connection. Oh my gosh, I have

44:12

to write this down. It's really

44:14

good. I think we all think

44:16

of connection or relationship as these

44:18

kind of warm fuzzy, hard to

44:21

quantify, hard to structure things. And

44:23

the author really puts an interesting

44:25

framework around. assessing your own kind

44:27

of social health score and well-being

44:29

and different styles of engaging with

44:31

other humans and it's just it's

44:33

I nerd out on it I've

44:35

read it a couple times now

44:37

and I'm always happy to to

44:39

share interesting tidbits from it. Who's

44:41

a must follow? It could be

44:43

a podcast or a blog, a

44:45

YouTube, X, anything. Who's a must

44:47

follow for you? Oh, goodness. I'm

44:49

reading Mel Robbins' book right now.

44:51

Let them. I think maybe I'm

44:53

like only the 10 millionth person

44:55

to say that, probably. Trying that

44:57

out has been an interesting exercise

44:59

for me. I'd go back to

45:01

this this take-great newsletter as a

45:04

recommended follow, especially for founders that

45:06

are building in the marketplace realm.

45:08

Wait, you have to tell me,

45:10

why is everyone reading this book

45:12

let them? What is it about?

45:14

Okay, so I got invited to

45:16

a book club that was reading

45:18

this book. And so I don't

45:20

know if I would have picked

45:22

it up otherwise, but I'm really

45:24

glad that I did. Self-help books

45:26

aren't my favorite genre. I sort

45:28

of feel like if you've read

45:30

one, you've read all of them.

45:32

But this is a really interesting

45:34

approach. It's like just a very

45:36

simple. mantra and it's like why

45:38

do you need a whole book

45:40

written about a mantra frankly like

45:42

I'm I'm I'm about halfway through

45:44

the book and I'm still kind

45:46

of wondering that but Mel Robbins

45:49

author gives just like a lot

45:51

of real world examples and advice

45:53

around how to use this mantra

45:55

and it's all about let them

45:57

it's really like the old adage

45:59

of just like letting go of

46:01

things you can't control and then

46:03

you know taking control of things

46:05

that you can and but she

46:07

just really simplifies it in a

46:09

way that feels like wow I'm

46:11

just gonna go try this and

46:13

I think the sort of tangibility

46:15

and like the action like the

46:17

ability to actionize her advice like

46:19

right away in a really simple

46:21

way has resonated for sure. So

46:23

I have an answer for you,

46:25

maybe, I mean I don't know

46:27

her, but of why there needs

46:29

to be a whole book about

46:32

a mantra. So early in my

46:34

career, you know, Tony Shea was

46:36

Zappos. He did this program called

46:38

Business Insights, and I was, I

46:40

had the privilege of being and

46:42

one of the first ones, if

46:44

not the first one, and it

46:46

was, I don't know, a three

46:48

or four day intensive experience, but

46:50

it had one core lesson at

46:52

the end that we learned, and

46:54

I was really. confused. I was

46:56

like, T, why did you just

46:58

spend four days to get to

47:00

this singular point? And he said,

47:02

because people don't value things that

47:04

come easy that are just spoon

47:06

fed, they have to feel like

47:08

they worked for it in order

47:10

to retain it. And I'm like,

47:12

oh shit. That makes a lot

47:14

of sense. It was such a

47:17

trippy thing to kind of open

47:19

my eyes to. This has been

47:21

wonderful. Is there anything that comes

47:23

to mind that you wanted to

47:25

share that that we haven't talked

47:27

about? I don't think so. I

47:29

just appreciate your energy and enthusiasm

47:31

on what we're building at fellow,

47:33

but also just generally for empowerment

47:35

and compassion and connection. It's just

47:37

really inspirational. Thank you so much

47:39

to connect and collaborate with more

47:41

amazing women in tech around the

47:43

world Remember to go to women

47:45

in tech show dot com. That's

47:47

women in tech show dot com.

47:49

Find us on all social at

47:51

women in tech show I will

47:53

see you all the things in

47:55

the next episode. Bye Bye Ms.

47:57

Apolic, I'm the CEO fellow. Fellows,

48:00

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