Have you ever been in a job that just sucks the joy out of your work? On the flip side, have you had a job that leaves you feeling energized and full of life? Or more likely — it’s a mix. The concept of joy and work can feel like an oxymoron sometimes — but does it have to? Adding joy into work is more important than ever because research shows the lack of joy is literally making people sick.

Scott Sonenshein co-wrote Joy at Work: Organizing Your Professional Life alongside organization queen Marie Kondo. You may remember her from her Netflix show Sparking Joy. Scott is a Professor of Management at Rice University. He also wrote Stretch: Unlock the Power of Less -and Achieve More Than You Ever Imagined.

During our conversation, Scott helps us apply lessons around joy to our work such as how we need to purge things from our lives that don’t spark joy. He explains why we need to tap into intrinsic motivators instead of free snacks or ping-pong tables. And he shares why leaders play a critical role creating joy at work.

Additional resources: Learn more about Scott’s research and books at https://www.scottsonenshein.com/Read insights about how to create spaces to build community at work www.steelcase.com/WBnewGet the latest workplace design, insights and research: www.steelcase.com/subscribe

Work Better podcast is hosted by Chris Congdon. Produced by Rebecca Charbauski. Creative art direction by Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey. Technical support by Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez. Digital publishing by Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks. Editing and sound mixing by SoundPost Studios.