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2:40

Welcome to Work

2:42

in Progress. Hello

2:44

friends, welcome back

2:46

to another week of work

2:49

in progress. I... I'm geeked

2:51

about today's guest because I

2:53

am such an enormous fan,

2:55

not only of his art,

2:57

but his activism, and I

2:59

cannot wait to pick his

3:01

brain on all of it.

3:04

Today's guest is Alo Black.

3:06

You know him as an

3:08

American singer and rapper. You

3:10

know him from Avicis. Wake

3:12

me up. And from his

3:14

smash hit, I need a

3:16

dollar. What you may not know is

3:18

that Allo never planned on

3:21

being a musician. His life

3:23

kind of happened by accident.

3:25

He thought he would be

3:28

an academic and somehow

3:30

took a left turn. and

3:32

from touring around the world

3:34

and major stages everywhere, he

3:36

has managed to solidify his

3:39

place in the mainstream music

3:41

scene while also being an

3:43

incredible advocate for change from

3:45

studying the methodologies of Nelson

3:47

Mandela to being mentored by

3:50

Harry Belafonte. Alo has been

3:52

involved in so many charitable

3:54

causes and in deep social

3:56

justice work. He speaks out

3:58

on the important mental health

4:01

awareness. He has collaborated with

4:03

the Biden administration to promote

4:05

its national strategy to prevent

4:07

suicide. And his latest album

4:09

Stand Together is not only

4:11

a beautiful musical journey that

4:13

I've been waiting for for

4:15

five years, but every song

4:18

on the album has a

4:20

partnered, philanthropic initiative that fans

4:22

can learn about. Talk about

4:24

being a true artist in

4:26

every sense of the word

4:28

and spending your privilege and

4:30

your platform for good. Let's

4:32

hear from Alo Black. Where

4:35

are you today? I live

4:37

in LA. I'm Glendale. Okay,

4:39

I grew up in Pasadena.

4:41

Oh, are you there now

4:43

or? Neighbors. No, I'm actually

4:45

on the East Coast now,

4:47

but my folks are still

4:50

there and yeah, we were

4:52

like Miracle Mile kids and

4:54

then eventually my parents moved

4:56

to Pasadena and they're still

4:58

there. Oh, crazy. Normally I

5:00

like to ask people about

5:02

who they were as kids

5:04

and so often when I'm

5:07

interviewing parents that... have kids

5:09

in that kind of stage

5:11

of developmental age that I

5:13

know yours are in, they

5:15

get to kind of see

5:17

this mirroring of themselves as

5:19

children and see versions of

5:22

themselves in their own children

5:24

at the same time. Yeah.

5:26

And I wonder if you

5:28

got to go back and

5:30

hang out with yourself as

5:32

a 10-year-old kid, the way

5:34

you get to hang out

5:36

with your kids. Would you

5:39

see aspects of the man

5:41

you are today in that

5:43

little boy? Oh, probably not.

5:45

I don't know. I don't

5:47

know. I was, I see

5:49

my son and there are

5:51

a lot of similarities in

5:53

him as a child compared

5:56

to who I was as

5:58

a child and I think

6:00

it's gonna. be I think

6:02

he might be the same

6:04

it's going to be like

6:06

a night and day flip

6:08

where the the kind of

6:11

rambunctious unbridled energy of youth

6:13

sort of meets with this

6:15

this moment of change where

6:17

you become measured and and

6:19

more temperate and decisive but

6:21

no also with the ability

6:23

to navigate between both personalities,

6:25

the extrovert, the introvert, the

6:28

entertainer and the observer. Yeah.

6:30

I feel like, yeah, he

6:32

seems like he's probably gonna

6:34

flip that switch in the

6:36

next seven years probably. Wow.

6:38

And is that right around

6:40

when it started to happen

6:43

for you? No. It happened

6:45

for me earlier. then I

6:47

think it will happen for

6:49

him. But I think that

6:51

it's just different circumstances. You

6:53

know, I had two parents

6:55

that worked full-time. We were

6:57

a very kind of middle-class

7:00

family and what's different now

7:02

is that there's, I think,

7:04

a lot more attention that

7:06

my wife and I give

7:08

to the kids to the

7:10

kids. a lot more comfort

7:12

and intentional parenting versus fly

7:14

by the seat of your

7:17

pants, put it on the

7:19

table, make sure the kids

7:21

get to school parenting that

7:23

I grew up with. Yeah,

7:25

I talked to my friends

7:27

about this all the time

7:29

because we're really the first

7:32

generation that has... been in

7:34

this phase of life with

7:36

all these resources, all the

7:38

mental health studies and all

7:40

the understanding of communication and

7:42

the value of therapy and

7:44

all these things that our

7:46

folks didn't really have. And

7:49

it's so inspiring for me

7:51

to look at parents in

7:53

my life and watch the

7:55

way they can acknowledge where

7:57

their own parents fell short,

7:59

still love them for it,

8:01

and be choosing to create

8:04

a different pattern in real

8:06

time. It's pretty incredible. It

8:08

is incredible. There's a lot,

8:10

like you said, a lot

8:12

of resources. We've chosen a

8:14

school that has a pedagogy

8:16

that I think helps parents

8:18

become better parents. One of

8:21

the really special things is

8:23

that before the surgeon general's

8:25

warning on social media, we

8:27

were already engaged in a

8:29

media free campus, media free

8:31

lifestyle. And so, you know,

8:33

it's very limited the amount

8:35

of television or TV programming

8:38

that the kids would get.

8:40

And they're, you know, they're

8:42

fine with it. They've learned

8:44

to manage without it and

8:46

there's no pressure coming from

8:48

the school because the other

8:50

kids are on board with

8:53

the program. So it's helped

8:55

us the better parents, but

8:57

also just more focused. intentional.

8:59

Yeah, it's an interesting thing.

9:01

I think for people, in

9:03

our lines of work to

9:05

analyze relationships to media, and

9:07

even when you talk about

9:10

how the sort of flip

9:12

happened in your young self,

9:14

how as an adult, you

9:16

have to hold both your

9:18

performer and your introvert. You

9:20

know, I think about that

9:22

a lot, being the performer,

9:25

the entertainer, and also a

9:27

listener who likes to be

9:29

quiet. There's, there's then. layer

9:31

of how you have to

9:33

participate in media on top

9:35

of it and when you've

9:37

pursued a career in it.

9:39

I mean, before you became

9:42

a solo artist, you were

9:44

part of a hip-hop duo

9:46

and LA in the 90s.

9:48

I mean, everything about it

9:50

was so incredible and music

9:52

was so incredible and there's

9:54

no way to be a

9:56

musician without being in the

9:59

media, right? So like... Right.

10:01

At least then there was

10:03

no social, there was no

10:05

phone scroll on the iPhone.

10:07

What was that, what was

10:09

that era like for you?

10:11

It was the best era.

10:14

I don't know that we'll

10:16

ever be able to have

10:18

that again. I would love

10:20

to try to replicate it

10:22

somehow, but it would take

10:24

concerted effort on everybody's part

10:26

to recognize that what makes

10:28

it special is sort of

10:31

the exclusivity of, of, of,

10:33

um, The temporal exclusivity the

10:35

spatial exclusivity and the informational

10:37

exclusivity is that you if

10:39

you know you know and

10:41

once you're there you get

10:43

to experience it and then

10:46

it's word of mouth and

10:48

And if you weren't there

10:50

then it's like the the

10:52

tail of you know the

10:54

fish that you caught just

10:56

keeps getting bigger and so

10:58

the hype gets is real

11:00

so but Wow. When I

11:03

was growing up and in

11:05

the hip-hop scene, we would

11:07

have access to all of

11:09

the artists, the stars nowadays,

11:11

people that you kind of

11:13

just look at, like, oh,

11:15

that's a bona fide, you

11:17

know, superstar, billionaire artists in

11:20

hip-hop. Those folks, we would

11:22

literally go to clubs and

11:24

see them for five bucks

11:26

or ten bucks in LA.

11:28

And just... An awesome time

11:30

of music and dance. and

11:32

art and culture, and I

11:35

know that it is possible,

11:37

and I know that it

11:39

was part of our mental

11:41

wellness, right? It was our

11:43

own modality for ensuring that

11:45

we were healthy, because we

11:47

had a community and a

11:49

culture that we'd longed to,

11:52

that we subscribed to. Of

11:54

course, my parents are from

11:56

Panama. There was a whole

11:58

community and culture from Central

12:00

America, Latin America, that I

12:02

was part of. my friends

12:04

that I went to school

12:07

with, we had our own

12:09

sort of, you know, suburban

12:11

subculture, and then there were

12:13

my hip-hop friends and culture.

12:15

So I had the opportunity

12:17

to choose between, and actually

12:19

code switch between a lot

12:21

of different cultures. But it's

12:24

the, it was the beautiful

12:26

mental well, I'm going to,

12:28

I'm going to, making it

12:30

an association with mental wellness

12:32

now. I wouldn't have done

12:34

it back then, but now

12:36

I can see that the

12:38

fact that we were in

12:41

perpetuity and proximity with one

12:43

another, that we were engaged

12:45

in physical activity, so it

12:47

was dance or performance, the

12:49

fact that we were free

12:51

to make mistakes without the

12:53

repercussion of forever documentation. All

12:56

of that combined. was, I

12:58

think, the best and most

13:00

nurturing soil to grow up

13:02

in. Mm-hmm. I love that

13:04

idea that you could be

13:06

free, not only to make

13:08

mistakes, but to experiment with

13:10

your own art. Because sure,

13:13

if you can make a

13:15

mistake in private, you can

13:17

have a normally sized consequence

13:19

of sorts. To do it

13:21

in public. does something to

13:23

I think a tiny human

13:25

brain that it's not meant.

13:28

experience, but I worry about

13:30

this, everyone recording everything all

13:32

the time. I worry about

13:34

what that's costing art because

13:36

people are afraid to have

13:38

something that's mediocre go on

13:40

the internet. But you got

13:42

to rehearse, you got to

13:45

try things, you got to

13:47

see, if you're a comedian,

13:49

you have to see how

13:51

a joke works in a

13:53

crowd, comedians workshop around the

13:55

country. Artists. perform a new

13:57

song, see what the vibe

13:59

is, realize it's missing, a

14:02

synth or a drum or

14:04

whatever, and go back and

14:06

layer. And nobody wants to

14:08

do that anymore. People only

14:10

want to give out what

14:12

is perfect because it might

14:14

go somewhere and I'm scared

14:17

of the generation of art

14:19

we're costing ourselves because everyone's

14:21

too afraid to take risks

14:23

now. Yeah, that's that's a

14:25

real concern of mine as

14:27

well and I would add

14:29

in the layer of Algorithms

14:31

and industry industry is so

14:34

much smarter and now with

14:36

algorithms. They're even more Informed

14:38

about how to sell and

14:40

market and what's unfortunate is

14:42

that it becomes this recursive

14:44

loop a reductive recursive loop

14:46

that does not allow for

14:49

better or more interesting or

14:51

productive art. Yes. And I

14:53

think about how we can,

14:55

you know, try to, you

14:57

know, go back to square

14:59

one and I don't want

15:01

to sound like, you know,

15:03

back in my day, but

15:06

there was something special about

15:08

the garage band. Yes. And

15:10

now that it's more so

15:12

the discovery and engagement is

15:14

online. and it's more insular

15:16

is more solo than it

15:18

is the group and the

15:20

groups that exist are all

15:23

so manicured and perfect and

15:25

pristine that it's it begs

15:27

the question will we ever

15:29

be able to see you

15:31

know kids just having fun

15:33

for the sake of having

15:35

fun anymore or is all

15:38

of their fun for display

15:40

and does it have to

15:42

be perfectly presented and rehearsed

15:44

fun. And when it works

15:46

for these young artists, the

15:48

blowup is so fast. You

15:50

know, it's been interesting to

15:52

watch Chapel Rhone have this

15:55

big year and everyone's like

15:57

good for her and she's

15:59

out there being like, I'm

16:01

traumatized. Like the internet's wild,

16:03

what people expect of me

16:05

is really hard for me

16:07

to process. A year and

16:10

a year and a half

16:12

ago, nobody knew this kid's

16:14

name. And I think about

16:16

the pressure. You know. We

16:18

kind of got to be

16:20

out there and make a

16:22

thing and have a show

16:24

premiere or drop an album

16:27

and do the press tour

16:29

and then also like go

16:31

home, go to the bar

16:33

with our friends. Like not

16:35

every outing was expected to

16:37

be chased and tailed and

16:39

photographed and packaged. And I

16:41

think about things that are

16:44

so like those moments that

16:46

take me back, you know,

16:48

almost like an old factory.

16:50

hit when you smell something

16:52

and suddenly you're next to

16:54

someone you haven't seen in

16:56

ages. And when I was

16:59

getting ready for today and

17:01

I was thinking about all

17:03

the phases of my own

17:05

life that your music has

17:07

been a part of, I

17:09

even think about when I

17:11

need a dollar was you

17:13

know the theme song to

17:16

make it in America and

17:18

like my buddy Brian Greenberg

17:20

from my first show One

17:22

Tree Hill was on that

17:24

show and we were like

17:26

oh my god and it

17:28

felt like this moment for

17:31

us like supporting our friend

17:33

and the song that was

17:35

everywhere on the radio and

17:37

it was it was the

17:39

theme song of the HBO

17:41

show like the possibilities felt

17:43

so big and it was

17:45

it's like one of my

17:48

favorite memories as a young

17:50

artist and it wasn't even

17:52

my show but it was

17:54

like we all had this

17:56

connection in this way and

17:58

nobody was expected to be

18:00

in like the head to

18:02

toe look by the stylist

18:05

and doing the thing and

18:07

You know, now everybody's looking

18:09

at these retro photos from

18:11

the 90s and the early

18:13

2000s and being like, God,

18:15

what cool style. And it's

18:17

like people were just wearing

18:20

the dad. They were just

18:22

wearing what they were, yeah,

18:24

what were in the closet

18:26

or in the drawer. There

18:28

was none of this. Thank

18:30

you for mentioning I need

18:32

a dog because that was

18:34

an epic moment for me

18:37

as well. That was exactly

18:39

what you said. I was

18:41

just making music for the

18:43

few fans that I knew

18:45

I knew I had. who

18:47

would appreciate it, and I

18:49

was like, and I'll probably

18:52

go get another job in

18:54

a couple months. Yes, and

18:56

now for our sponsors. Hey,

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I ask just a technical

21:02

question for the timeline? How

21:04

long was this after you

21:06

embarked as a solo artist?

21:08

I need a dollar hit

21:10

in 2009 or so. I

21:12

had been laid off in

21:14

2003. So six years. of

21:16

kind of solo artistry. I've

21:19

always been engaged in art

21:21

doing hip-hop music. I released

21:23

I think 2005 maybe the

21:25

last the hip-hop album with

21:27

my partner DJ Exile as

21:29

Ammonon and then released a

21:31

solo album in 2006 or

21:34

something like that. So this

21:36

song hits and it's like

21:38

what? Yeah. I mean when

21:40

that when that beat starts

21:42

and it just the loop

21:44

is so good I think

21:46

about walking down the street

21:48

in New York and like,

21:51

I don't know, it's so,

21:53

it's seminal. Oh my goodness,

21:55

you're right. It has a,

21:57

an essence of a really,

21:59

really powerful, emotive sound to

22:01

it. And it does, it

22:03

does make me think of

22:05

like, the, a scene. In

22:08

an article. I suppose I

22:10

should say an interview, it

22:12

was an interview that an

22:14

article was written from, that

22:16

you feel like serendipity lives

22:18

on your front doorstep. Oh

22:20

my goodness. Can you say

22:23

a little bit more about

22:25

that as you talk about

22:27

riding this wave? Yeah, I

22:29

feel like it's not fair.

22:31

You know, I have a

22:33

lot of friends who are

22:35

struggling artists who are incredibly

22:37

talented, but just haven't had

22:40

what I consider the lucky

22:42

breaks that I've had. And

22:44

I wish that I could

22:46

share, you know, the sprinkles

22:48

of serendipity with them. But

22:50

everywhere I look, there's something

22:52

positive happening. And my goal

22:55

is to just try to

22:57

pay it forward as much

22:59

as possible with philanthropy and

23:01

with message and engagement. I

23:03

was signed to an indie

23:05

label. First of all, I

23:07

wasn't signed to any label

23:09

in the very beginning. I

23:12

was going to work for

23:14

a big corporation and they

23:16

pushed my start date back.

23:18

And because they pushed my

23:20

start date back, the opportunity

23:22

to go on tour in

23:24

Europe opened up. because one

23:26

of the members of this

23:29

hip-hop group decided to stay

23:31

home. So there was an

23:33

extra seat in the bus,

23:35

an extra bed in the

23:37

hotel rooms, and the idea

23:39

was that I could join

23:41

the tour if I paid

23:44

my way, and I had

23:46

just received, you know, just

23:48

graduated from college received this

23:50

like exit scholarship that I

23:52

don't even again another serendipity

23:54

right yeah money money on

23:56

the way out okay I'll

23:58

take it so I had

24:01

some money to pay my

24:03

way on this tour came

24:05

home and started recording with

24:07

the artists that I had

24:09

toured with and one of

24:11

the recordings peeked the attention

24:13

of the record label that

24:16

that artist was signed to

24:18

So they ended up signing

24:20

me as a singer and

24:22

not an MC. So all

24:24

this time, this whole tour

24:26

I'd done, I'm a rapper

24:28

and I'm writing hip-hop music

24:30

and I decided to sing

24:33

on one track and the

24:35

labels considering me a vocalist

24:37

and now I'm signed as

24:39

a singer. And so I

24:41

had to really like bootstrap

24:43

myself to become a vocalist

24:45

and a singer, trying so

24:47

many different sounds and styles

24:50

over the years. And then

24:52

by the time I started

24:54

working on my second album,

24:56

Good Things, which holds the

24:58

I Need a Dollar song,

25:00

I kind of had figured

25:02

out where the best place

25:05

was to use my voice.

25:07

So it wasn't in pop

25:09

R&B. It wasn't alternative rock.

25:11

It was in this kind

25:13

of folk soul vocal. And

25:15

it ended up being the

25:17

hallmark of my early career.

25:19

It's amazing and I again

25:22

I think about that thing

25:24

Would you have had the

25:26

time and space to find

25:28

the best use of your

25:30

voice? Had had that moment

25:32

in your early career been

25:34

happening in this kind of

25:37

algorithmic machine we're in now?

25:39

No, I don't think so.

25:41

Yeah, I think because of

25:43

my attraction to process I

25:45

would be trying to figure

25:47

out the algorithm how to

25:49

beat it. It wouldn't give

25:51

me the opportunity to be

25:54

my best. artistic self. And

25:56

I was so lucky that

25:58

in high school, I had

26:00

the chance to put in

26:02

10,000 hours of free expressive

26:04

artistic creation. Yeah. Without, again,

26:06

without the repercussions of having

26:08

to be perfect because it

26:11

wasn't going online. Right. It

26:13

was being vetted by my

26:15

very close associates. And once

26:17

they approved, then it made

26:19

it. to, you know, mix

26:21

tapes that we then deliver

26:23

to more people. I miss

26:26

the mix tape. When you

26:28

talked earlier about, like, if

26:30

you know, you know, you

26:32

know, when you finally, when

26:34

you're not a music maker,

26:36

but you love art, you

26:38

know, artists of a different

26:40

vertical, like, to go, oh,

26:43

now I, now I get

26:45

the heads up when the

26:47

mix tapes are coming. Like,

26:49

nothing was cooler, you know,

26:51

as a, as a young

26:53

person. finding the way in

26:55

these creative scenes. I'm like,

26:58

oh my God, just to

27:00

hear you talk about, like,

27:02

you workshop it, then it

27:04

goes on the mixtape, then

27:06

it goes out, then people

27:08

come to see you in

27:10

the venue. It's like, I

27:12

don't know if we'll get

27:15

it again, but I'd be

27:17

so thrilled if we could

27:19

figure out, I think that

27:21

there's a hunger for it.

27:23

But I want to, you

27:25

know, try to, my kids

27:27

are a hop, skip, and

27:29

a jump away from high

27:32

school. So maybe, you know,

27:34

I'll try to workshop it

27:36

with them. A rental venue

27:38

where they can go and,

27:40

you know, have parties and

27:42

be creative and explore. But

27:44

one rule is that it

27:47

has to happen offline. Yeah,

27:49

phone free. Love it. I

27:51

even think about what a

27:53

big... it was in that

27:55

era when you'd hear about

27:57

something after and then you'd

27:59

see the you know the

28:01

five photos that came out

28:04

because some some great shooter

28:06

was there and and but

28:08

that was it it wasn't

28:10

you know 600 grainy Instagram

28:12

videos or whatever and there's

28:14

something I think really beautiful

28:16

about all of that and

28:19

I do think it's why

28:21

so many young people crave

28:23

it. I hear from, you

28:25

know, my friends with teenagers.

28:27

We've kind of got two

28:29

camps, like friends with little

28:31

kids, like, you know, five

28:33

and under, and then we've

28:36

got friends with teenagers. And

28:38

the teenagers want to ask

28:40

questions about my first show,

28:42

because they're like, everybody has

28:44

a flip phone. They all

28:46

talk to each other about

28:48

how they're feeling. No one's

28:50

texting. And that kind of

28:53

blows my mind. These kids

28:55

are like, wait, we want

28:57

that version of high school.

28:59

Yeah, the beauty is the

29:01

art of story. And so

29:03

what is missing is that

29:05

with all of this video

29:08

and all of these photos

29:10

available for every event that

29:12

happens, and also the ability

29:14

to watch and experience in

29:16

real time, you lose the

29:18

art of story. And so

29:20

nobody tells the story in

29:22

a way that is compelling.

29:25

You're receiving it in real

29:27

time and you get to

29:29

interpret it at your own

29:31

level with your own, you

29:33

know, intellectual curiosity and your

29:35

own ability to really process

29:37

deeply. And we all have

29:40

different. abilities, but when you

29:42

have a storyteller that's coming

29:44

to you and narrating, dictating

29:46

really, what you should feel

29:48

and how you should feel,

29:50

that's a whole different experience.

29:52

that's what is missing is

29:54

the great narrator. Yes, and

29:57

what I miss about the

29:59

great narrator is that it

30:01

was being presented, as you

30:03

said, with someone's story that

30:05

also helped to encourage critical

30:07

thinking and to question the

30:09

story, to examine the facts

30:11

of it rather than just

30:14

to look at a hundred

30:16

images and decide you already

30:18

know the story. The irony

30:20

that we used to have

30:22

narrators and that made us

30:24

better critical thinkers is not

30:26

lost on me and it

30:29

It gets to the root

30:31

of something. I've always really

30:33

admired about you as a

30:35

you know a person in

30:37

my age peer group ish

30:39

like You're one of those

30:41

people. I'm like yeah, we

30:43

kind of came up together

30:46

even though we never really

30:48

knew each other and I'm

30:50

so happy you're here But

30:52

you've done something that I've

30:54

seen be so important to

30:56

so many artists in our

30:58

generation, which is use your

31:01

platform. Really spend the privilege

31:03

of your platform for others

31:05

as an advocate, as an

31:07

activist. You've focused on mental

31:09

justice reform. You have so

31:11

artfully told other people's stories

31:13

to remind people that if

31:15

we don't have community, we

31:18

don't have anything. When did

31:20

that spark get lit for

31:22

you as an artist or

31:24

was it always part of

31:26

who you are as a

31:28

person and the artistry helps

31:30

let it out? Right. I

31:32

think there's definitely a moment

31:35

where it was lit and

31:37

I would say right after

31:39

I need a dollar I

31:41

was very very excited to

31:43

be, you know, kind of...

31:45

having this moment of visibility

31:47

after being an obscure niche

31:50

artist on an obscure niche

31:52

record label and I was

31:54

asked to do some endorsements

31:56

for different products, some luxury

31:58

products and one of them

32:00

was a liquor brand that

32:02

happened to be a gin

32:04

that was my dad's favorite

32:07

gin. I am not a

32:09

drinker, never was, but I

32:11

thought I'll take some photos

32:13

and hold a martini and

32:15

then I'll have some bottles

32:17

sent to my dad and

32:19

he'll get the posters and

32:22

it'll be a nice little

32:24

father-son moment. And the posters

32:26

ended up being placed in

32:28

the inner city across the

32:30

country. And I got a

32:32

phone call from one of

32:34

my wife's friends who was

32:36

an activist out of an

32:39

organization called Community Coalition of

32:41

South LA, which was started

32:43

by now Mayor Karen Bass,

32:45

but back she was just

32:47

a citizen of her community

32:49

trying to make it better.

32:51

And she started a nonprofit

32:53

organization. a reprimand of my

32:56

use of my celebrity and

32:58

influence to sell alcohol and

33:00

liquor in a community where

33:02

this organization was trying to

33:04

shut down liquor stores which

33:06

had become a blight on

33:08

the community and I had

33:11

no connection and no idea

33:13

and I was really taken

33:15

it back so I used

33:17

that as an opportunity to

33:19

visit the org, learn what

33:21

they were doing and recognize

33:23

how much my influence

33:26

was a responsibility that I

33:28

had to take seriously. And

33:31

when I signed with a

33:33

major record label after that,

33:36

I promised that I'll use

33:38

my music for positive social

33:40

transformation and tried to turn

33:43

every music video into a

33:45

PSA that could tell a

33:48

story to humanize the most

33:50

vulnerable. Yeah, that's beautiful. you

33:52

know, from learning lessons, and

33:55

I think it's also very

33:57

vulnerable. if I may say,

33:59

to be willing to learn

34:02

out loud. I think it's

34:04

incredibly important to push back

34:07

against this sort of weird

34:09

algorithmic perfectionism to say, oh

34:11

yeah, I did something that

34:14

seemed fun and it turned

34:16

out to have an impact

34:18

that was terrible. FYI, this

34:21

was my lesson. If you're

34:23

ever in this position, ask

34:26

these questions, you know, nobody

34:28

gives us a handbook on.

34:30

how to do these things

34:33

right and how to how

34:35

to pull the thread till

34:38

you get to the end

34:40

of it. And it's so

34:42

interesting to hear about that

34:45

feedback and the way you

34:47

chose to receive it and

34:49

then to think about what

34:52

you've done with all of

34:54

this since, you know, as

34:57

you said, the way you

34:59

use your music, the way

35:01

that you've stepped up. And

35:04

I mean, even helped join

35:06

the president Biden to talk

35:09

about him and Kamala Harris's

35:11

national strategy for suicide prevention,

35:13

you know, to take a

35:16

crisis for our communities and

35:18

say, this is something a

35:20

lot of people keep hidden

35:23

out of pain and shame

35:25

and let's go talk about

35:28

it literally from the most

35:30

powerful, you know, stage in

35:32

America. What was that like

35:35

for you? Was that unnerving

35:37

in any way? Or as

35:39

you've built this sort of

35:42

series of learnings and voicings

35:44

for others, did it just

35:47

feel like the next right

35:49

thing? I would say the

35:51

latter, it feels like the

35:54

next right thing. I don't

35:56

feel any real trepidation. And

35:59

I look to my mentors

36:01

and also heroes from the

36:03

past that have basically educated

36:06

me on what's possible. I

36:08

think about, you know, was

36:10

fortunate to meet Queko and

36:13

Andaba Mandela. These are grandsons

36:15

of Nelson Mandela. And the

36:18

stories that I hear from

36:20

them and understanding Nelson Mandela's

36:22

story, and also Winnie Mandela's

36:25

story, that in the face

36:27

of the most tremendous and

36:30

horrendous adversity, torture, incarceration, that

36:32

he still was able to

36:34

maintain a level of humanity

36:37

and compassion. not just for

36:39

himself, but for perceivably his

36:41

enemies, which, you know, he

36:44

wouldn't call them his enemies

36:46

because he didn't punish them

36:49

when he came out of

36:51

prison. He embraced everyone and

36:53

moved forward with dignity. And

36:56

I think about Harry Belafonte,

36:58

who was a mentor of

37:00

mine, someone that I had

37:03

a chance to sit with

37:05

and learn from. and how

37:08

he used his voice and

37:10

celebrity in a way to

37:12

encourage, you know, transformation that

37:15

otherwise might not have happened

37:17

without his very privileged position.

37:20

And there certainly was fear,

37:22

you know, death threats, physical

37:24

altercations. Somebody's got to

37:27

do the work and if you're

37:29

in that position and you have

37:31

that access Then the the job

37:33

is yours and you have to

37:35

rise to the occasion So I

37:37

don't know. I just think I

37:39

felt I feel like I've had

37:41

the right guides along the way

37:43

Hmm. That's beautiful and now a

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discover.com/credit card. that Jane Fawn

39:48

does, that the folks who

39:51

came before all of us,

39:53

that when the pushback and

39:55

the fear kind of sinks

39:57

in of like, oh God,

39:59

what does it mean to

40:01

say this out loud and

40:03

to keep beating this drum

40:05

and to refuse to be

40:07

quiet when you feel in

40:09

terrible thing that, you know,

40:11

someone out there does that

40:13

falls under the category of

40:15

threat. I think in moments,

40:17

especially like this one, you

40:19

know, this many days into

40:21

this new all hands on

40:23

deck administration, I just think,

40:25

well, they did it. They

40:27

did this work. We don't

40:29

get to do less. There

40:31

is no world in which

40:33

we can do less because

40:35

we, for all the negative

40:37

aspects of how interconnected we

40:40

are, we do have the

40:42

ability to do this. You

40:44

and I can be in

40:46

community from different sides of

40:48

the country. We can get

40:50

on a phone and speak

40:52

to people and remind people

40:54

of what's good and true.

40:57

Yeah, when I get scared

40:59

I try to think about

41:02

those people are there Are

41:04

there? Are there like leaders

41:06

and mentors or folks you

41:09

call like who do you

41:11

turn to when you get

41:13

scared? It's mostly community mostly

41:16

community You know what reassures

41:18

me is that Harry Belafonte

41:20

was in the middle of

41:23

all of the civil rights

41:25

struggle and many of his

41:27

peers were murdered Dr. King,

41:29

you know, many were beaten,

41:32

but he was able to

41:34

also survive and for decades

41:36

and decades later to be

41:39

able to tell the story

41:41

and to tool up and

41:43

train a whole new generation

41:46

of artists. So, but there

41:48

are others, you know, that

41:50

in my circle who are

41:53

the folks who are the

41:55

folks that in my circle

41:57

who are the folks that

41:59

I, the folks that I,

42:02

the folks that I, the

42:04

folks that I, the folks

42:06

that try to think through

42:09

how we position. ourselves for

42:11

the for the next four

42:13

years and and beyond. What

42:16

are the what are the

42:18

strategies? What is the goal?

42:20

You know, and what are

42:23

how do we triage? What

42:25

are the things that are

42:27

not as important as what

42:29

are our highest priorities? And

42:32

how do we make sure

42:34

we maximize those highest priorities?

42:36

Yes. And how do we

42:39

do it in a way

42:41

in this very information sensitive

42:43

or hyper informed society? How

42:46

do we do it in

42:48

a way that is information

42:50

sensitive? In ways that doesn't

42:52

make our strategy and concepts

42:55

vulnerable to being thwarted. So

42:59

there are lessons and

43:02

from the past, there

43:04

are technologies that didn't

43:06

exist then, and we've

43:08

just got to be

43:10

thoughtful about how we

43:13

manage, but really what

43:15

it comes down to

43:17

is as well, like

43:19

making sure that we

43:22

are using our influence

43:24

for the betterment of

43:26

humanity, all humanity. And

43:28

we are standing up

43:30

for the rights and

43:33

dignity of the most

43:35

vulnerable. The weight of

43:37

it feels very immense

43:39

and close to me

43:42

right now, but I

43:44

do feel very grateful

43:46

that so many of

43:48

us in our little

43:51

worlds that all kind

43:53

of end diagram together

43:55

in the ways that

43:57

they do. Both. preparing

44:00

and slowing down just enough

44:03

to ask these kinds of

44:05

questions. That has been one

44:07

of the great lessons for

44:09

me is that in the

44:11

immediate, you know, humanity, all

44:14

humanity. And we are standing

44:16

up further rights and dignity

44:18

of the most vulnerable. The

44:20

weight of it feels very...

44:23

immense and close to me

44:25

right now, but I do

44:27

feel very grateful that so

44:29

many of us in our

44:31

little worlds that all kind

44:34

of been diagram together in

44:36

the ways that they do

44:38

are both preparing and slowing

44:40

down just enough to ask

44:42

these kinds of questions. That

44:45

has been one of the

44:47

great lessons for me is

44:49

that in the immediate, you

44:51

know, fury or heartbreak that

44:54

can come to witnessing injustice,

44:56

like, I have a spicy

44:58

Italian lady in me, like

45:00

I can just get out

45:02

there and start screaming and

45:05

to hold that passion, but

45:07

also take a breath and

45:09

go to a friend and

45:11

say, okay, what's the plan?

45:14

How do I scream effectively?

45:16

How do I instill the

45:18

fear my grandmother knew how

45:20

to instill in me effectively?

45:22

And how do I also

45:25

enter the spaces that require

45:27

immense empathy with that empathy

45:29

on my sleeve and just

45:31

be present to support people?

45:34

And I wonder if maybe

45:36

the root of that willingness

45:38

to be curious is from...

45:40

The thing we all share

45:42

which is being a storyteller.

45:45

Yeah, I believe that we

45:47

all have the the storytelling

45:49

capacity and we all have

45:51

to those of us who

45:54

are recognized for it, have

45:56

to lead with it. And

45:58

we've got to lead with

46:00

it in a way that's

46:02

going to empower others to

46:05

use their storytelling. You know,

46:07

quite often we'll be at

46:09

some public event and my

46:11

wife and I, I kind

46:13

of retreat because I feel

46:16

like if it's not my

46:18

show, I don't need to

46:20

be on stage. And it's

46:22

an opportunity for other people

46:25

to be. seen and on

46:27

stage and my wife always

46:29

reminds me she's like but

46:31

this is people love your

46:33

voice and is you know

46:36

why would you restrict them

46:38

of it and part of

46:40

me is like well they

46:42

didn't they haven't asked for

46:45

it so I don't want

46:47

to impose but it she's

46:49

right though that there's you

46:51

know there is always an

46:53

opportunity with the right intention

46:56

And with humility to humility

46:58

to quote unquote impose if

47:00

you can do something good

47:02

with it. I like that

47:05

impose for good. Yeah, that

47:07

feels nice. You can use

47:09

your your fiery Italian voice.

47:11

In some moments. Yeah. And

47:13

as long as you're doing

47:16

it for good. Yeah. Yeah,

47:18

I think it's crucial. You

47:20

know, I know it gets

47:22

set a lot, but truly

47:25

now more than ever. And

47:27

I want to go back

47:29

to something that you said

47:31

earlier, you know, about how

47:33

you began to realize that

47:36

even a music video in

47:38

a way could be a

47:40

PSA, because the new album...

47:42

I'm so excited it's here.

47:44

We've waited. I'm leaving and

47:47

like coming back as a

47:49

fan and then I'll, she'll

47:51

exit stage left and your

47:53

interviewer will be back. But

47:56

you know, when you and

47:58

you're so excited as someone

48:00

who loves someone else's art,

48:02

like, oh my God, it's

48:04

here. And then, of course,

48:07

I was like, of course

48:09

every song is tied specifically

48:11

to an action you can

48:13

take for positive social change.

48:16

Of course it is. And

48:18

I just think it's so

48:20

cool. So I'll join the

48:22

chorus of people saying bravo,

48:24

but can you talk about

48:27

how first of all do

48:29

you? say this

48:31

is the album I want

48:33

to release after, you know,

48:36

six years noodling and finding

48:38

this version of this year's

48:40

voice. And then how do

48:43

you kind of layer this

48:45

larger mission so that we're

48:48

not just your listeners, but

48:50

we're also, we're also becoming

48:52

a community of folks doing

48:55

something. Right. Well, I would

48:57

say that, you know, Again,

48:59

the serendipity on my doorstep.

49:02

I am not a bleeding

49:04

heart artist. There's plenty of

49:07

tragedy and things in my

49:09

life to be sad about,

49:11

but I have a very

49:14

optimistic and positive outlook. And

49:16

I enjoy this opportunity to

49:18

create and share with this

49:21

megaphone that I have for

49:23

the whole world. And I

49:25

recognize that in the marketplace,

49:28

there's so much. darkness. Lots

49:30

of, you know, depression and

49:33

anxiety and misogyny and violence

49:35

and substance abuse. And that's

49:37

I don't think I need

49:40

to contribute to any of

49:42

that. And I could tell

49:44

an album worth of stories

49:47

about myself and glorify myself

49:49

in a way that would

49:51

probably make me more popular

49:54

than I am. But I

49:56

also I'm not compelled to

49:59

do that. I don't feel

50:01

that it's necessary. I think

50:03

we have enough self-promoting narcissists

50:06

in the music business. And

50:08

I feel like, okay, well,

50:10

what can I do? Let

50:13

me show up in the

50:15

way on music, on tape,

50:17

on record, as I show

50:20

up in community, and how

50:22

is that? That is, whenever

50:25

I get a phone call,

50:27

or I get invited to...

50:29

engage with a non-profit organization,

50:32

I try to find a

50:34

way. And I thought, well,

50:36

posting your media assets online

50:39

is certainly helpful to my

50:41

fan base. That works. Maybe

50:44

shooting a PSA for a

50:46

video or showing up to

50:48

the gala and performing at

50:51

the gala so you can

50:53

raise funds. That, I'm sure,

50:55

is very helpful. But if

50:58

my forte is storytelling and

51:00

songwriting, how can I? lean

51:02

in heavily on my passion

51:05

and expertise using your messaging

51:07

and work in the community

51:10

so that 2 plus 2

51:12

equals 5. And it's not

51:14

that I came up with

51:17

this idea, I know there's

51:19

been the we are the

51:21

worlds of the past, there's

51:24

been the... Bono and you

51:26

two, you know, won. There's

51:28

Bob Marley with redemption songs.

51:31

There's so many artists in

51:33

the past have done the

51:36

message music or the positive

51:38

social mission, but I thought,

51:40

why not really lean in

51:43

with an album that suggests

51:45

to my peers that that

51:47

era is not over and

51:50

that we can continue to

51:52

do that. And here's... an

51:54

album full of songs, the

51:57

least you can do is

51:59

one. Yes. You know? And

52:02

so each song is... inspired

52:04

by a nonprofit organization or

52:06

a positive social mission. One

52:09

of the songs is called

52:11

Breakthrough. It was inspired by

52:13

a nonprofit organization called Breakthrough

52:16

that is helping returning citizens

52:18

matriculate back into society with

52:21

jobs, education, housing to reduce

52:23

recidivism. You know, another song

52:25

on the album is called

52:28

Don't Go Alone. It's written

52:30

inspired by an African proverb,

52:32

but really I'm promoting it

52:35

in service of the Phoenix,

52:37

which is an addiction recovery

52:39

organization that uses collective activity,

52:42

like exercise or hiking, as

52:44

a modality to combat substance

52:47

abuse. This is your accountability

52:49

family, your accountability team, and

52:51

you just find new friends

52:54

and you just find new

52:56

friends and new ways to

52:58

engage in new ways to

53:01

engage. to avoid, you know,

53:03

going to the bottle or

53:05

the pillow. And so each

53:08

song is is built around

53:10

that concept. And I would

53:13

be remiss to not mention

53:15

that my wife was probably

53:17

the most inspiring factor in

53:20

making this decision because we

53:22

were the spokescouples for an

53:24

organization called Peace Over Violence

53:27

here in Los Angeles. that

53:29

does awareness for domestic abuse.

53:31

And there was a campaign,

53:34

every year there's an annual

53:36

campaign called Denham Day, which

53:39

is messaging around sexual violence

53:41

and how it's important for

53:43

men just as much as

53:46

anyone to recognize that our

53:48

role. in sexual violence. My

53:50

wife wrote a song after

53:53

watching the Hunting Grounds I

53:55

think is the name of

53:58

the film about... rape on

54:00

campus called never said yes

54:02

because the conversation around you

54:05

know sexual violence is always

54:07

very directed and pointed at

54:09

blaming the victim saying well

54:12

you know did you say

54:14

no did you lead the

54:16

perpetrator on the perpetrator on

54:19

Did you say yes? Right.

54:21

And if you didn't say

54:24

yes, so she wrote a

54:26

song called Never Said Yes,

54:28

and I thought it was

54:31

brilliant. And, you know, great

54:33

idea to take the social

54:35

mission, put it into a

54:38

mantra that can become the

54:40

language to support that mission

54:42

in the absence of, you

54:45

know, a narrator. This quick

54:47

easy sound bite that helps

54:50

to tell the story in

54:52

a way that people can

54:54

digest quickly. It's really beautiful.

54:57

And now a word from

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57:22

of the things that strikes

57:25

me about the opportunity that

57:27

you've created here is with

57:29

an album's worth of songs,

57:32

each song having a focus

57:34

for a cause, you offer

57:37

up a board to an

57:39

audience to say, which of

57:41

these things resonates with you

57:44

the most deeply? Which of

57:46

these things will you join

57:49

the call for? Because, you

57:51

know... I remember early in

57:53

my career, people would always

57:56

say to me, we have

57:58

to pick something, pick a

58:01

cause. I'm like, how is

58:03

working on a more civil

58:05

society going to be accomplished?

58:08

for the one thing. That

58:10

seems ridiculous to me. And

58:12

I actually think one of

58:15

our greatest strengths is the

58:17

fact that when we get

58:20

to speak to so many

58:22

people, the more you can

58:24

teach or showcase how interconnected

58:27

these things are, the more

58:29

likely you are to inspire

58:32

each person paying attention to

58:34

what you're sharing with the

58:36

thing that most inspires them.

58:39

Because not every fan is

58:41

going to have the same

58:44

cause. But everyone's going to

58:46

be inspired by something. So

58:48

what an amazing thing to

58:51

layer this creative process with

58:53

so many opportunities for real

58:55

passion and connection. Thank you.

58:58

I'm really happy about it.

59:00

I think it's just the

59:03

volume one of many to

59:05

come and I'm going to

59:07

keep exploiting this method. for

59:10

the long haul. Do you

59:12

have a favorite song on

59:15

the album? Very hard to

59:17

say. Don't go alone is

59:19

so infectious to me. The

59:22

message, you know, being about

59:24

if you want to go

59:27

fast, you can go alone.

59:29

If you want to go

59:31

far, you go together. And

59:34

that being this African proverb

59:36

that really... make so much

59:39

sense about how society and

59:41

communities can operate. And then

59:43

deep inside the music is

59:46

everything that I grew up

59:48

with parents coming from Central

59:50

America via the Caribbean. So

59:53

lots of, you know, Latin

59:55

and Caribbean sounds and then

59:58

African diaspora, African sounds in

1:00:00

the music. But then there's

1:00:02

on the other side of

1:00:05

that sonic lands. is this

1:00:07

very calm and relaxed kind

1:00:10

of story of father and

1:00:12

son, which is Daddy told

1:00:14

me so, the concept of

1:00:17

my relationship with my dad

1:00:19

and the lessons that I

1:00:22

learned from him. And there's

1:00:24

a, I guess there's a

1:00:26

favorite moment or reason for

1:00:29

every song on the project,

1:00:31

but those are two highlights.

1:00:33

for sure. Do you write

1:00:36

a whole slew of songs

1:00:38

and then start to narrow

1:00:41

them down for the album

1:00:43

or are you a person

1:00:45

who finds each sort of

1:00:48

concept that you're processing in

1:00:50

song and then you have

1:00:53

an album? I think that

1:00:55

putting an album together is

1:00:57

a sculpting activity so I

1:01:00

build up a whole mountain

1:01:02

full of... of songs and

1:01:05

then I peel away the

1:01:07

layers so that the remaining

1:01:09

songs are the ones that

1:01:12

tell the story I feel

1:01:14

is most necessary. And that's

1:01:16

that's the general the general

1:01:19

way of writing for me.

1:01:21

Just keep writing all the

1:01:24

time and piece together the

1:01:26

put together the album based

1:01:28

on what the theme overall

1:01:31

theme overall theme should be

1:01:33

overall theme should be So

1:01:36

interesting. My last and favorite

1:01:38

question to ask everyone, and

1:01:40

I'm curious from where you're

1:01:43

sitting and all these things

1:01:45

you're thinking about, and this

1:01:48

repertoire, this new repertoire of

1:01:50

music you're about to give

1:01:52

to us, today, what feels

1:01:55

like your work in progress?

1:01:57

in conversation with my kids.

1:02:00

We did cuddle

1:02:02

time just before

1:02:05

they go to bed

1:02:07

and thinking

1:02:10

about their eagerness

1:02:12

to engage

1:02:15

in the art world

1:02:17

and this work

1:02:20

in progress

1:02:22

is building

1:02:24

kids that are

1:02:27

resilient. thoughtful

1:02:29

and full of heart

1:02:32

and intelligent and

1:02:35

fearless, artistic

1:02:37

and executive.

1:02:40

So, you know, just

1:02:42

before they went to

1:02:45

bed, they spent a

1:02:47

few minutes coming

1:02:49

up with some songs

1:02:52

that they might end

1:02:54

up being their first

1:02:57

project. Wow. As a

1:02:59

brother and sister, that's,

1:03:01

I'd say that's my

1:03:03

work in progress. It's like,

1:03:06

these beautiful lives that

1:03:08

my wife and I have

1:03:10

been fortunate enough to

1:03:13

receive and steward.

1:03:15

Stewardship. That's major. To

1:03:17

watch your babies creating in

1:03:20

front of you and looking

1:03:22

at you like, Dad, is

1:03:24

this good? What a trip

1:03:26

that has to be? I

1:03:28

just love that for you. Yeah.

1:03:30

Well, thank you so much. Thank you

1:03:33

for joining me for this today.

1:03:35

You know, as I said earlier,

1:03:37

as a fan for so long,

1:03:39

it's such a joy to be

1:03:41

able to talk to you not

1:03:43

just about the work, but about

1:03:45

the way you see the world.

1:03:47

And I'm so thrilled for the

1:03:49

new record. And I will say

1:03:51

on behalf of many.