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I've never felt like this

2:06

before. It's like you just get

2:08

me. I feel like my true

2:10

self with you. Does that

2:12

sound crazy? And it doesn't

2:14

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to Work in Progress. Friends,

2:48

Whipsmarti's fellow lovers of excellent television.

2:50

We are joined today by a

2:52

woman who I just adore, look

2:55

up to, and who I can't

2:57

wait. to have in front of

2:59

me for a whole hour, so

3:02

I can pepper her with questions.

3:04

Today's guest is Bellamy Young, who

3:07

you probably love as I do,

3:09

from her role playing Melody Mellie

3:11

Grant in ABC's hit series scandal.

3:14

Yes, she won the Critics Choice

3:16

Award. Yes, she's gone on to

3:18

star on other series. Yes, she

3:21

is a singing and acting legend,

3:23

a theater baby, and a brilliant,

3:25

heart forward woman who is an

3:27

author and now a podcast host.

3:29

She's also just one of the

3:31

loveliest people I have ever met.

3:34

And I can't wait to sit

3:36

with her today and talk about

3:38

how she balances all these things,

3:40

her career, her fascination in the

3:42

world, and her work as an

3:44

ambassador with CARE. Care is the

3:47

world's leading humanitarian organization that

3:49

is dedicated to saving lives

3:51

and defeating poverty around the

3:53

world. And the work that

3:55

Bellini has done with care,

3:58

the women that she met.

4:00

The change she has seen made

4:02

in conversations from Honduras to Jordan

4:04

to Nepal to Tanzania to Ukraine

4:06

to Vietnam to name a few

4:09

inspired her to make sure. The

4:11

stories that touched her in her

4:13

work could touch the rest of

4:15

us. So in partnership with Care

4:17

she has launched an incredible new

4:19

limited podcast series called She Leads

4:22

with Care. And she will take

4:24

all of us around the world

4:26

to have inspiring conversations with women

4:28

leaders that are changing this planet

4:30

for the better. I am absolutely

4:33

thrilled that she's here. And I

4:35

can't wait to ask her about

4:37

all of her favorite shows and

4:39

about the life-saving work that she

4:41

gets to champion every day. Let's

4:44

hear from Bellamy Young. How

4:55

are you? I'm so good,

4:57

how are you? I'm great,

4:59

I'm so excited, you're here.

5:01

I'm so happy to be

5:03

here, thanks so much. Well,

5:05

I have so many questions

5:08

for you. I mean, first

5:10

and foremost, I suppose I

5:12

should say, my president, welcome

5:14

to the podcast. What I

5:16

would give, Bellamy. We have

5:18

to laugh because we can't

5:20

cry. Yeah, what I would

5:22

give. It would be so

5:24

nice. But I guess. We

5:26

persist. We persist. That's all

5:28

we can do. I have,

5:30

like I said, a million

5:32

questions for you about what

5:34

you're up to and your

5:37

work and all these things,

5:39

but before we dive into

5:41

any of that, I love

5:43

to kind of go back

5:45

to catch up. And I

5:47

want to know about who

5:49

you were as a kid,

5:51

because there's so much I

5:53

know about your life, your

5:55

career, your advocacy, your activism,

5:57

your collegiate, your collegiate career,

5:59

your I wonder if we

6:01

could kind of bend space

6:03

time and we could hang

6:06

out with Bellamy at nine

6:08

while we had this chat.

6:10

Would you see, do you

6:12

think you'd see yourself who

6:14

you are today in her?

6:16

Oh, it's such a beautiful

6:18

question, isn't it? Because we,

6:20

I mean, when you do

6:22

work on yourself, you try

6:24

and bring back little pieces

6:26

of you that you've. straight

6:28

from over the years. And

6:30

so that's definitely been a

6:32

question I have asked myself

6:35

before. I don't think when

6:37

I was nine and 1979,

6:39

there would have been any

6:41

idea that I could have

6:43

conceived of any part of

6:45

this life. Like I'm such

6:47

a 20th century human, so

6:49

just the 21st centuryness of

6:51

it all is continually outside

6:53

my scope. And I, but

6:55

I also, I do think

6:57

I thought that freedoms and

6:59

that sort of thing were

7:01

inextricably a course that moved

7:03

forward, so I think I

7:06

took that for granted as

7:08

a nine-year-old. I loved to

7:10

sing when I was nine,

7:12

but I don't think I

7:14

could have dreamed to have

7:16

a career where I got

7:18

to do what I loved

7:20

for a living. Like that

7:22

didn't seem feasible or, practical.

7:24

Yeah, nine-year-old Amy, she was

7:26

honey doing some pageants because

7:28

that's what happens. North Carolina.

7:30

I was adopted, I was

7:32

in foster care for a

7:35

little while and my adopted

7:37

family thought they found out

7:39

about my biological family and

7:41

so tried to give me

7:43

opportunities sort of based on

7:45

this one little sheet of

7:47

paper like a paragraph on

7:49

my quote-unquote mom and two

7:51

lines on my... biological dad.

7:53

I have met them now.

7:55

My wonderful biological parents had

7:57

the opportunity to meet them

7:59

and turns out none of

8:01

that stuff we thought was

8:04

true. So where we thought

8:06

they thought that oh her

8:08

biological mother is a singer

8:10

so we better give her

8:12

opportunities to sing and I

8:14

met her and she's like

8:16

mmm no or you know

8:18

like so a lot of

8:20

the path of my life

8:22

was predicated on a mistake

8:24

but you can also call

8:26

it fate or luck or

8:28

grace because I deeply love

8:30

where I am in my

8:33

life. And I have fought

8:35

to be able to say

8:37

that sentence, but I stand

8:39

firmly planted two feet rooted

8:41

into the ground with gratitude

8:43

for, like I say, being

8:45

able to get to do

8:47

what I love. And by

8:49

the grace of that, sometimes

8:51

being able to help anybody

8:53

who needs it. That's so

8:55

special. And I think it's

8:57

really interesting, you know, you

8:59

said two things that kind

9:02

of light up for me,

9:04

that when you work on

9:06

yourself, you get to collect

9:08

pieces of yourself, and you

9:10

said that you've fought really

9:12

hard to like your life

9:14

so much. I think there's

9:16

something really interesting, and this

9:18

is something I'm kind of

9:20

noodling on in my own

9:22

journey right now. I wonder

9:24

why it is so many

9:26

of us who do the

9:28

jobs we do, who entertain,

9:31

who want to bring books

9:33

to life, who want to

9:35

create these sort of vessels

9:37

for the human experience that

9:39

might create some empathy or

9:41

some catharsis or make someone

9:43

feel seen or represented. It's

9:45

not lost on me that

9:47

we all are healing while

9:49

we do this. Stuff we're

9:51

running away from until we're

9:53

ready to face it or

9:55

do you think we face

9:57

what what life gives to

10:00

us because we have love

10:02

our characters and maybe through

10:04

loving them we learn how

10:06

to love ourselves better. I

10:08

think it's yes and I

10:10

think it's all of the

10:12

things you know I think

10:14

first of all I deeply

10:16

believe souls come in with

10:18

a mission and there's a

10:20

heartbreaking breathtaking randomness for where

10:22

that soul lands, gender, geography,

10:24

socioeconomics, you know, like, because

10:26

all the souls, they come

10:29

in with the same hopes

10:31

and dreams and wants and,

10:33

and, but very particular path

10:35

in mind. And I think

10:37

ours, those of us that

10:39

are drawn into this work,

10:41

and I mean this in

10:43

the largest umbrella, come in

10:45

on a path of empathy

10:47

and sometimes we apply that

10:49

empathy last to ourselves. You

10:51

know, we lead with the

10:53

curiosity, we often are people

10:55

pleasers, so we try to

10:57

understand so that we can

11:00

excuse things that we see

11:02

around us or things that

11:04

are happening in a room

11:06

or in the world. But

11:08

I do think that the

11:10

conscious work can begin when

11:12

we take a pause and

11:14

apply that empathy to our

11:16

own. experience life path so

11:18

that we can get sort

11:20

of clear of the dust

11:22

storm that is our pain,

11:24

you know, when we kind

11:26

of like rain down a

11:29

little love on that so

11:31

it settles to the ground

11:33

and then our vision is

11:35

cleared, then we can really

11:37

cleanly use that empathy and

11:39

curiosity to assess what

11:41

we see around us again in

11:43

the room or in the world

11:46

and assess our part in it

11:48

because we don't you know we

11:50

can't care in everything we it's

11:53

not ours is not a role

11:55

for you know every day in

11:57

every situation but we're here for

12:00

a reason and we can help

12:02

but we can help and engaging

12:04

in the world with love and

12:07

curiosity and a full heart. I

12:09

feel like, you know, nobody gets

12:11

out of life. If we can

12:14

leave this place a little bit

12:16

better than we found it, then

12:18

I think that's the measure of

12:21

success. I love that. It interests

12:23

me because you've got such passion

12:25

about your calling and about... humanity

12:28

at large, that's so clear. And

12:30

yet, you went to school for

12:32

a completely different course of education

12:35

and took a hard left, which

12:37

by the way, was my journey.

12:39

So I'm just absolutely geeked on

12:42

how you figured it out. I

12:44

thought I was going to be

12:46

a heart surgeon. I wanted to

12:49

be a cardiothoracic surgeon. Whoa, wait,

12:51

were there people in your family

12:53

that are surgeons or what did

12:56

like, little Sophia, how did little

12:58

Sophia be like, no, no, I

13:00

want to cut on hearts? I

13:02

don't know. I think for me,

13:05

I always loved science. I'm a

13:07

naturally kind of nurturing person and

13:09

I really like to fix things.

13:12

That's something I've definitely had to

13:14

work on. You know, not everybody

13:16

wants things to be fixed all

13:19

the time. Sometimes people just need

13:21

to vent. So I've learned to

13:23

say to my loved ones, do

13:26

you want to be heard or

13:28

do you want my help? And

13:30

then I kind of know how

13:33

to be present when they're going

13:35

through something. That's how I stopped

13:37

myself from trying to fix. But

13:40

I think that natural inclination just,

13:42

I don't know. I don't know

13:44

if it was. watching medical shows.

13:47

I don't know what it was.

13:49

I just thought that's what I

13:51

wanted to do. And then I

13:54

sort of got, you know, knocked

13:56

over the head with the beautiful

13:58

reality that a play was a

14:01

book come to life. And I

14:03

thought, I actually think this is

14:05

what I want. do. Literature is

14:08

my favorite thing. I think I'm

14:10

going to go to school for

14:12

theater and when I told my

14:15

parents that my senior year in

14:17

high school, you can imagine how

14:19

well that transition went. But here

14:22

we are. And when I was

14:24

reading about your story, I was

14:26

like, wait a second, wait a

14:29

second, you were going so hard

14:31

into science and then also pivoted

14:33

into theater and literature and how...

14:35

How for you, how? Well, first

14:38

let me say, like, you're still

14:40

doing your dream, like in metaphor,

14:42

you're still like healing hearts, in

14:45

your work and in your life

14:47

and in your creative endeavors. So

14:49

I think, I think it's, I

14:52

think you stayed true to the

14:54

impulse, if not the exact, you

14:56

know. non-metaphorical implementation of that. So

14:59

you do a good job, little

15:01

tiny Sophia. You did right. You

15:03

chose right. And I loved science

15:06

always. It was where I felt

15:08

the most awe and grace. You

15:10

know, it felt... what some people

15:13

feel about organized religion. And I

15:15

love, like I grew up going

15:17

to Catholic school, I was raised

15:20

Methodist, like that religion was part

15:22

of my life growing up as

15:24

a child, but I always saw

15:27

the human hand in it and

15:29

that gave me misgivings. And with

15:31

science, I felt that... overwhelming smallness

15:34

and the interconnectedness and the wonder

15:36

and it just pulled me just

15:38

oh my whole heart mind body

15:41

everything was pulled there and you

15:43

know I was doing okay studying

15:45

and figuring a couple things out

15:48

North Carolina and got to college

15:50

and you know we're not all

15:52

not all of us there's not

15:55

alignment between what we dream and

15:57

what we can do. Some things

15:59

just have to become interests and

16:02

passions and loves so I was

16:04

not that great at physics on

16:06

the international level and I had

16:08

to quickly pivot and my mom

16:11

was an English teacher. still like

16:13

bless her she died in Christmas

16:15

of 2023 but still one of

16:18

the best teachers I ever had

16:20

mentally unstable but like the most

16:22

beautiful mind I've ever come in

16:25

contact with and so it was

16:27

a really easy pivot to be

16:29

like oh I'll do English because

16:32

I I get that like she

16:34

taught me to write and I

16:36

could interpret like all that and

16:39

I thought I'll do a double

16:41

major and maybe somebody will confuse

16:43

it for thinking I went to

16:46

the drama school. So it was

16:48

a bit of a con and

16:50

a bit of a dodge. I

16:53

love it. And where does the

16:55

singing fit into that? Well, I

16:57

wouldn't have my first dad, my

17:00

adopted dad had just died before

17:02

I went to college and I

17:04

wouldn't have... I'd gone so far

17:07

away, I don't think, if Yale

17:09

hadn't had this like amazing a

17:11

cappella scene, which I loved so

17:14

much, and I thought, oh. if

17:16

I can get in that school,

17:18

I can sing and I can

17:21

get a good education and she

17:23

can't, my mom can't say I

17:25

shouldn't go because they meet 100%

17:28

of demonstrated financial need and my

17:30

mom like I say it was

17:32

just a high school English teacher

17:35

and so not just was a

17:37

high school English teacher who is

17:39

that is a field of people

17:42

who are not financially rewarded for

17:44

the impact they have on the

17:46

world. So I applied early admission,

17:48

got deferred, I'm southern so I

17:51

thought they were just being polite

17:53

and that they would tell me

17:55

later that I was not invited

17:58

to come to school with them.

18:00

No! I built out like 12

18:02

more applications over Christmas. Re-submitted my

18:05

application and bless their hearts. They

18:07

let me in. You sound like

18:09

they were giving you a bless

18:12

your heart. I did. They're all

18:14

honey. Aren't you sweet? I know.

18:16

Bless your heart. You are just,

18:19

you are just lovely. That's so

18:21

cute. Applied. Oh my God. And

18:23

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22:00

I would imagine just, you know,

22:02

based on what you're sharing, it's

22:05

so clear how much you loved

22:07

your mom, and I'm so sorry,

22:09

you know, for her passing. And

22:12

when we heal, we have to

22:14

be really honest about what we

22:17

come from, and you know, you

22:19

talk about her instability and the,

22:21

all the sort of good old

22:24

college tries that she gave love

22:26

that wasn't always good for her.

22:28

Was being able to get far

22:31

enough away to not go home

22:33

to do your laundry or not

22:36

have a surprise visit, you know,

22:38

from a parent to the dorms?

22:40

Did that also give you a

22:43

respite to kind of find yourself

22:45

and your own independent strength from

22:47

what was being modeled for you

22:50

at home? You know, both the

22:52

amazing and the dedicated and the

22:55

hard? I love that you're being

22:57

gracious enough to use the past

22:59

tense because that was a lifelong

23:02

situation. I mean, LA wasn't far

23:04

enough, you know, like I, it

23:07

was. because when you're a heart

23:09

and your mind and your mental

23:11

health they're intertwined like that physical

23:14

distance is sort of ancillary, you

23:16

know, it's great they can't walk

23:18

in your room at any moment

23:21

of any day, it's great they

23:23

can't be up in your physical

23:26

business all the time, but you

23:28

know, there were still decades of

23:30

time where I spent, you know,

23:33

three hours a day on the

23:35

phone with her and told her

23:37

everything that I did, and you

23:40

know, there was, it was a

23:42

long, long, long road of... healing

23:45

and I won't say like division

23:47

but it took a lot of

23:49

work. My very first therapist when

23:52

I got to LA was like,

23:54

okay you're going home for Christmas

23:56

so I just want to give

23:59

you the opportunity to, while you're

24:01

there, put on your lab coat,

24:04

just in your mind, little white

24:06

coat that you can just observe.

24:08

And that was sort of the

24:11

first little bit of a little

24:13

bit of distance. Like you said

24:15

it so beautifully, do you need

24:18

me to listen or do you

24:20

need me to fix them? Like

24:23

that's just knowing there's a little

24:25

separation. There's all love and we're

24:27

holding it all with love, but

24:30

there's choice in that... that cushion,

24:32

that buffer zone, there is choice.

24:34

And so that began many, many

24:37

decades of loving work, seeing both

24:39

of us for who we really,

24:42

really were. And now that she's

24:44

gone, that was the part of

24:46

the healing too is not forgetting

24:49

any of it. Because it all,

24:51

just like everything in the world,

24:54

it all informs. who we are

24:56

and what we do, what we

24:58

choose for our lives, for ourselves,

25:01

every moment of every day, and

25:03

if we are ignoring things or,

25:05

you know, deciding that that's not

25:08

factoring in, it's all factoring in.

25:10

It all filters in, it all

25:13

factors in, and so the most

25:15

loving thing to do is to

25:17

be present enough to notice and

25:20

decide with intention and... Yeah, but

25:22

just presence. That's what that's what

25:24

that's that that wound up being

25:27

That softness because I for so

25:29

many years tried to like I'm

25:32

gonna be good at this or

25:34

I did this right or you

25:36

know all the silly stuff that's

25:39

force and when you realize that

25:41

the softness of presence is the

25:43

true source of power seat of

25:46

power and from that all decisions

25:48

can flow and decisions that you're

25:51

far prouder of so that's that

25:53

journey yeah that's so beautiful I

25:55

think soft power is something that's

25:58

really been underestimated and You know,

26:00

it's not lost on me that

26:02

we're at a moment in the

26:05

world where I think there's a

26:07

lot of shock, you know, not

26:10

just in our country, but around

26:12

the globe at seeing the U.S.

26:14

kind of rip up all of

26:17

its pledges. It's like softest and

26:19

best kinds of power, you know,

26:21

the things that have led to

26:24

better global health outcomes. And

26:26

the kind of 30,000-foot view, you

26:29

know, the space station view, maybe

26:31

if we're talking about the whole

26:33

world, it's not lost on me

26:35

that we see that in kind

26:37

of every level of society and

26:39

what works and what doesn't. And

26:42

when you talk about how you've

26:44

had to carry this sort of,

26:46

you know, more whole version of

26:48

yourself throughout your life and through

26:50

all your work and, you know,

26:52

out... in LA and back back

26:55

now on the East Coast. I've

26:57

experienced a version of a soft

26:59

power and it's something you know

27:01

your your lab coat analogy I'm

27:03

like oh yeah I do that

27:05

sometimes. The stand back and observe.

27:08

isn't something I think I felt

27:10

as confident to do as a

27:12

younger person. I was so scared

27:14

that people would think I didn't

27:16

know what I was doing if

27:19

I didn't have input or a

27:21

way to help. And now I'm

27:23

very happy to just sit and

27:25

listen. And I have observed the

27:27

most beautiful, soft power in the

27:29

Shonda Rimes world. How about that?

27:32

Oh my God. And of course

27:34

everybody wants us to talk about

27:36

scandal and I want to ask

27:38

you 647 questions about it because

27:40

I loved it so much. I

27:42

have 648 answers. Thank God. It's

27:45

dawning on me as I'm listening

27:47

to you talk that some of

27:49

what I've seen in the Gray's

27:51

anatomy world watching her, watching Ellen,

27:53

watching Kimri, watching all these people.

27:56

What she's built are these spaces

27:58

where people are excellent. But it's

28:00

not like a bully demand. It's

28:02

a, you can be this. And

28:04

if you come in here, this

28:06

is the level we play at.

28:09

It's like an elite sport. And

28:11

it's kind. And it's tender and

28:13

people have real honor and gratitude

28:15

about their jobs. I don't know.

28:17

I don't think it's an accident

28:19

that we're having this conversation in

28:22

this moment. Because now you've obviously

28:24

got the perspective on what a

28:26

cultural phenomenon the show was, how

28:28

valuable it was to all of

28:30

us, how it got us through

28:32

the first two years of the

28:35

current president's first term. Did you

28:37

have any clue how different it

28:39

was when you read the pilot

28:41

script or could you just not

28:43

even imagined it imagined it imagined

28:46

or could you just not even

28:48

imagined it imagined it imagined Well,

28:50

you know they didn't let me

28:52

read the script. I was just

28:54

on just in for a recurring

28:56

I had two lives in that

28:59

pilot Sophia. I'm so lucky I

29:01

fell ass backwards into that dream

29:03

and I am So lucky I

29:05

mean, it's you know, it changed

29:07

my life utterly utterly. There's no

29:09

qualifier to that it changed my

29:12

life full stop period deep gasp

29:14

of gratitude So no, I don't

29:16

I don't think I was Given

29:18

the script I read it when

29:20

I got the part and then

29:22

I went and did it and

29:25

But I can tell you it

29:27

was and the the you know

29:29

the pilots always one thing but

29:31

when we came back and did

29:33

those first seven And I was

29:36

just supposed to be there for

29:38

three so I was like right

29:40

but It was instantly different and

29:42

I've I'm lucky enough to have

29:44

you know been a guest star

29:46

on a thousand things and so

29:49

you as a guest are you

29:51

really see it all because nobody's

29:53

behaving well around you. So you

29:55

really see the truth. No one

29:57

cares what you think so they

29:59

don't care enough to hide anything.

30:02

So I was like, oh man.

30:04

So I've been on a thousand

30:06

sets and I got to scandal

30:08

and it was just instantly different.

30:10

It was just instantly different and

30:13

over the course of the seven

30:15

years only grew in that regard

30:17

and you said something that made

30:19

me realize it was we were

30:21

all seen. So we were hired

30:23

to do what was inside us

30:26

and that we could share. And

30:28

then we were supported in every

30:30

way so that we could give

30:32

that. Not in a coddled actors

30:34

get everything, you know, like what

30:36

kind of algae do you want

30:39

in your smoothie kind of? Oh

30:41

God, no. But in a, oh,

30:43

you want to have a baby?

30:45

Great, let me. You don't have

30:47

to stop work. Let's figure out

30:49

how to do this. And now's

30:52

the time to do this, because

30:54

you also have a paycheck. So

30:56

this is wonderful. When Katie got

30:58

to have a baby on the

31:00

show, Carrie had a couple. And

31:03

we would... Myola could bring her

31:05

kids to work. We made a

31:07

whole space for the kids to

31:09

play it eventually, but we, you

31:11

know, no problem. Let's incorporate little

31:13

breaks. I think we called it

31:16

hummingbird bird. would need to go

31:18

breastfeed. I mean, this is care

31:20

that is not regular on a

31:22

set and also doesn't take much

31:24

effort and yields, you know, you

31:26

still have your 17-hour work days

31:29

and they're still wearing stilettos high

31:31

as my eyeballs and remembering all

31:33

their lines and doing their perfect

31:35

work and also being a mother.

31:37

And it was just lovely also,

31:40

also I do remember. Also I

31:42

do remember. One

31:44

woman, someone lady wanted to do

31:46

what was having a first go

31:48

at intimate moment and were a

31:51

little, uncomfortable with the notion and

31:53

Shonda immediate was like, listen, I

31:55

need you guys to kiss in

31:57

the scene, but if you're more

32:00

comfortable kissing in a parka, I'll

32:02

put you outside. Like, I'll do,

32:04

like, however you want it, I

32:06

just need the emotional connection. I'm

32:09

not here to exploit you. Now,

32:11

meanwhile, I realize that Tony and

32:13

Scott had to take their shirt

32:15

off all the time. So I

32:18

realize, I realize there's a balance,

32:20

but if we were, listen. But

32:22

no, it was always. And Carrie

32:24

also must be credited with being

32:27

an incredible, thoughtful, indefatigble number one.

32:29

I mean, first year that we

32:31

did press together, I remember she

32:33

was somewhere maybe in Italy doing

32:36

jango press at that point, and

32:38

Carrie and Darby and I were

32:40

going to sombs, something who knows,

32:42

one of the early, our times

32:45

on the carpet, and you know,

32:47

she knew we didn't know much

32:49

about doing anything on the carpet.

32:51

And we get a text from

32:54

Kerry, like, what do you need?

32:56

Do you know, you know, this

32:58

is how you stay on? Do

33:00

you have stylists? Like, I mean,

33:03

we were just really held in

33:05

love in that whole show. And

33:07

we, everybody met it with love.

33:09

A bunch of theater kids, just

33:12

grateful to have the jobs and

33:14

showing up for each other. And

33:16

it still that way, like, was

33:18

still my family. Yeah. And now

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37:11

sweet whenever I get to see

37:13

you all together it just brings

37:15

me so much joy because you

37:18

you made something enormous but you

37:20

you also you make it in

37:22

this little world and as much

37:24

as all of us who watched

37:27

it got to enjoy it nobody

37:29

was on that ride but you

37:31

all and there's just something priceless

37:33

about that. I feel the same

37:36

way with you know all my

37:38

castmates from my first show from

37:40

One Tree Hill like we show

37:43

up for each other and it

37:45

it gave me the sort of

37:47

familial experience I'd never had because

37:49

you know especially when you start

37:52

at 20 like we were babies

37:54

we were all stupid and you

37:56

know adorable but we didn't know

37:58

you know our ass from our

38:01

elbow and it's like When you

38:03

go through those things together, I

38:05

finally remember saying to a girlfriend

38:07

of mine, I was like, oh,

38:10

I get now. why my friends

38:12

with siblings can be in a

38:14

knockdown dragout family fight for a

38:16

week with their siblings. But if

38:19

somebody on the playground talks about

38:21

their siblings, they're gonna get laid

38:23

out. And it's like, oh, I

38:25

get it. There's a, it is

38:28

a really kind of priceless dynamic.

38:30

And I think what a cool

38:32

thing for you all to have

38:34

been able to do that. And

38:37

also probably to have been able

38:39

to do it. Like a little

38:41

more from your adulthood, you probably

38:43

had even more fun than we

38:46

did. Oh, yeah. No, that's the

38:48

other thing. We were all old

38:50

people already. Like when we started,

38:52

so we, there was no, like,

38:55

everybody had a burgeoning at least

38:57

sense of self. So there was

38:59

less acting out in confusion and,

39:01

you know, because LA is such

39:04

a head spinner, much less success.

39:06

So, We were all pretty grounded

39:08

about all of that. And if

39:10

we weren't, Kerry instantly grounded. You

39:13

know, like she was like, I

39:15

remember we were season five, they

39:17

wanted us to do Good Morning

39:19

America to launch the season and

39:22

we were like, that means we

39:24

have to be in hair and

39:26

makeup at 1.30am, and Kerry was

39:29

like, well, I'm going to be

39:31

here. I think it's amazing. They're

39:33

going to promote a season 5

39:35

of a show. I mean, that's

39:38

really special. And we were like.

39:40

She does, she's got such a

39:42

beautiful, she has such a spirit

39:44

of leadership. It's incredible. In everything

39:47

she does, I just absolutely adore

39:49

her. The level of thoughtfulness, it's

39:51

a little boggling, it really is,

39:53

and how hard she works to

39:56

make this world a better place,

39:58

you know, through her work, through

40:00

her activism, everything. That's what's really

40:02

interesting is that's how she and

40:05

I are friends. I know, because

40:07

you know, the same person, feebush,

40:09

the same wonderful person here making

40:11

things better. You shouldn't like everything

40:14

in your mind, body, soul. to

40:16

like be of service and love?

40:18

It's been really special to have

40:20

her sort of you know in

40:23

my group of political peers if

40:25

you will to have somebody who

40:27

likewise I know is up at

40:29

two in the morning reading you

40:32

know the report on maternal wellness

40:34

and and will listen to me

40:36

you know yammer about it's it's

40:38

so I think special and I've

40:41

thought a lot about it for

40:43

all of you because the world

40:45

of scandal was amazing. You guys

40:47

as actors, the chemistry between people,

40:50

the writing, I mean that work

40:52

was amazing and culturally to begin

40:54

that show when Barack Obama was

40:56

the president to take us into

40:59

the first two years of Trump's

41:01

first term. It's such a cultural

41:03

phenomenon, not just an entertainment phenomenon.

41:05

Do you think now, looking back,

41:08

do you think we needed to

41:10

be in the time of Obama

41:12

for scandal to be possible? And

41:15

do you think it helped people

41:17

care maybe a little bit more

41:19

about politics? Because I don't know

41:21

if I don't know as a

41:24

viewer. If the resistance would have

41:26

spoken the language so well so

41:28

fast, had y'all not been on

41:30

the air? Oh, I hope Shada

41:33

hears you say that. I do.

41:35

I think that would, I think

41:37

she'd be really grateful that you

41:39

held that thought in your heart

41:42

even for a moment. You

41:44

know, what she's always told us,

41:46

because I can't speak to her,

41:48

you know, process or intentions, but

41:51

what she's always told us is

41:53

how much she loved the West

41:55

Wing and how much she always

41:57

wanted to write her West Wing.

41:59

Me too. You're right? Come on.

42:01

And that, you know... Her enduring

42:04

commitment is that television looked like

42:06

the world. Yes. So this was

42:08

she met Judy Smith who scandal

42:10

is based on and she thought,

42:12

oh, that's my end. And she

42:14

just all of a sudden could

42:17

see, she was like, this is

42:19

my DC story. But that's also

42:21

why it was a, she knew

42:23

it had a ending spot. And

42:25

I do think we squeaked out

42:27

one extra year. because of real

42:29

life circumstances. I don't think Meli

42:32

would have been president. I think

42:34

Jeff was supposed to have, I

42:36

think Jeff was supposed to have,

42:38

I think Jeff was supposed to

42:40

have, you know, he won and

42:42

then we shot him or something.

42:45

I can't even remember, I'm not

42:47

even sure, but I know I

42:49

wasn't and then I was and

42:51

I do think that was, I

42:53

think she had some things to

42:55

say from the mouth of a

42:57

female president. because she had been

43:00

writing on Hillary's campaign and so

43:02

I just think she was she

43:04

was ready to write some speeches

43:06

that she did not have the

43:08

opportunity to write and so maybe

43:10

afforded herself the right opportunity to

43:13

share some of those ideas. I

43:15

love that. Gosh because I was

43:17

going to ask when you're doing

43:19

something so special with people you

43:21

love so much you don't want

43:23

it to end so we didn't

43:26

want it to end. Yeah that's

43:28

what I was going to ask

43:30

like did you feel ready to

43:32

move on but Maybe if, I

43:34

guess never, but also if you

43:36

got an extra year, that must

43:38

feel so great. I think so.

43:41

And I, like I say, you'll,

43:43

you'll see Sean one day and

43:45

you'll ask her the truth of

43:47

that. But I think that's, that

43:49

was everybody's feeling. And we, I

43:51

know, Josh was like, please, my

43:54

kid is still in college, you

43:56

know, just a couple more years.

43:58

And we would have stayed together

44:00

forever forever and also we knew

44:02

she was right to finish. where

44:04

she knew she wanted to finish.

44:07

You know, it's, we've all also

44:09

been on shows that are still

44:11

going. past maybe where they should

44:13

have landed and I want everybody

44:15

to have jobs God knows and

44:17

also it does feel a little

44:19

more like work when you're in

44:22

that phase so it never felt

44:24

like one day one day on

44:26

our set never felt like work

44:28

it always felt like joy and

44:30

curiosity and there was a story

44:32

to tell and we were lucky

44:35

to be there telling it together.

44:37

You guys all had such great

44:39

language and that's something I think

44:41

is true of the West Wing

44:43

as well like Aaron Sorcan. writes

44:45

the hell out of a scene.

44:47

Shonda Rimes writes the hell out

44:50

of a scene. Did it take

44:52

getting used to the kind of

44:54

cadence and the politics of it

44:56

all? Or do you feel like

44:58

you really just found yourself in

45:00

all of that dialogue and in

45:03

all of that verbiage really? No.

45:05

We all like... scandal paste was

45:07

a real thing and we drill

45:09

drill drilled like I say we're

45:11

like theater babies so we're having

45:13

to run minds and like just

45:16

you just get it till it's

45:18

so in your marrow that you

45:20

can you know a walk and

45:22

talk is like impossible but like

45:24

walk down those halls and hit

45:26

it hard speeding like Tabasco style

45:28

and then like you know not

45:31

mess up the steady cam guy

45:33

it's yeah it's a. It was

45:35

quite intentional and I think they

45:37

found it. I can't speak to

45:39

that. Katie Lowe will be able

45:41

to speak to that. I feel

45:44

like they found it in Katie's

45:46

audition really just because Katie's a

45:48

natural fast talker and it just

45:50

it was always great writing but

45:52

with the speed it just lived.

45:54

It just sang and And our,

45:57

you know, it was so hard

45:59

for guest stars, it's so hard

46:01

to step into that and meet

46:03

that pace. And I always, you

46:05

know, we were a loving embrace

46:07

for anyone that joined us, but

46:09

the pace was a bit of

46:12

a sissify and hurdle. But we

46:14

loved it and having Shonda in

46:16

my brain, I mean, I am

46:18

a, Lord, I am a bear

46:20

of, self-doubting little bear constantly and

46:22

having Shonda's sort of Shonda's idea

46:25

of Melli like my way or

46:27

the highway 17 hours a day

46:29

five days a week was personally

46:31

radically transformative just to act as

46:33

if of it all oh yeah

46:35

oh some people live in this

46:37

life a whole different way than

46:40

I am you know it's yeah

46:42

and then she gives these little

46:44

perfect one-act plays like me and

46:46

Tony and Jeffy or just Oh,

46:48

it was just the most satisfying

46:50

creative experience. My stars. I mean,

46:53

you know. Oh, it's just so

46:55

cool. It's so cool. If you

46:57

had the chance to do some

46:59

sort of a reunion, like a

47:01

reboot or a movie or something,

47:03

would you just jump? Oh, we'd

47:06

all get on a plane tonight.

47:08

I swear. There's nobody that would

47:10

be like, I don't know. I

47:12

mean, we'd have to, Kerry's busy,

47:14

we'd have to work around her

47:16

schedule, but, but I think she'd

47:18

do it too. Yeah, in an

47:21

instant. Oh, I love that so

47:23

much. Now, right around when the

47:25

show was ending, you started working

47:27

with care, right? That was all

47:29

2018. Yeah, yeah, I started in

47:31

2018. Exactly. And was that an

47:34

organization you met through the political

47:36

world kind of overlap of scandal,

47:38

or did that happen in a

47:40

completely different way? My dear friend

47:42

Renee Jones that I know through

47:44

UTA is who drew them into

47:46

my life and me into theirs.

47:49

And I was so grateful because

47:51

of course we all know care.

47:53

Care is the care package, you

47:55

know? It's 80 years old because

47:57

right after the Second World War,

47:59

humans in America realized that humans

48:02

in Europe might need things because

48:04

they'd been bombed and gone through

48:06

a war and were impoverished and

48:08

in need. And so they would

48:10

make these care packages and send

48:12

them to Europe and it made

48:15

such an impact. And everybody, you've

48:17

gotten a care package right in

48:19

your life or send one? And

48:21

you know how. loved you feel

48:23

and from that this incredible organization

48:25

grew from that little acorn and

48:27

there's still that bespoke thoughtful intentional

48:30

organization they go into local areas

48:32

and they ask what the need

48:34

is and then they hire from

48:36

the local area, they hire folks

48:38

and help create infrastructure that allows

48:40

those folks to create lasting transformational

48:43

intergenerational change for themselves. And Care's

48:45

goal is like teach a man

48:47

to fish. They're not, we don't

48:49

want to be there forever and

48:51

we don't want, you know, we're

48:53

just like giving you aid in

48:56

a way that we think you

48:58

need. It's very... thoughtful, intentional, local-based,

49:00

and they plan for their own

49:02

obsolescence so that change can continue

49:04

to happen. And I loved that

49:06

they, you know, they have the

49:08

data, right? Like the science says,

49:11

if you lift up women and

49:13

girls, they bring their families and

49:15

their communities with them. So that's

49:17

how they focus their work as

49:19

in partnership with women and girls,

49:21

giving them, you know, safe spaces

49:24

to learn and to get health

49:26

care and to have market access

49:28

and it's just been transformational, truly

49:30

transformational, but still born out of

49:32

that, just humans, knowing that we're

49:34

all connected, wanting to help other

49:36

humans. It changes everything. It surely

49:39

does. Like the tiniest thing, the

49:41

tiniest thing. I think about, actually

49:43

the episodes that just came out

49:45

today, Lillian, who works in the

49:47

care office at Tanzania, she's the

49:49

only care officer we talk to.

49:52

We used to talk to care

49:54

program participants, but she's done over

49:56

$700, $700,000, she's the only care

49:58

officer we talked to. We used

50:00

to talk to care program participants,

50:02

but she's done. like she was

50:05

like no no you what do

50:07

you need what what do you

50:09

need in your life that would

50:11

make your life better than the

50:13

women thought and they said, oh,

50:15

well, it'd be so good if

50:17

we didn't have to take our

50:20

kids to the fields with us

50:22

to harvest because it's like very

50:24

hard to manage our children and

50:26

get the crops and she's out

50:28

great. So let's make daycare. And

50:30

the VSLA made a daycare and

50:33

started with just 21 kids from

50:35

the people who were doing the

50:37

harvesting and This year, this is

50:39

maybe four years later and they're

50:41

doing a brick and mortar school

50:43

for 93 students and it's transformed

50:46

everything. Of course, it's also return

50:48

on the investment of the women's

50:50

money. Of course, but it allows

50:52

them just to breathe a little

50:54

to go to work and do

50:56

well at their job and their

50:58

kids have a good meal and

51:01

have some education and transformational change

51:03

that just takes somebody saying, what

51:05

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54:49

about my exact favorite kind of

54:51

thing, which is when the math

54:54

and the morals meet? Because so

54:56

many people think that you can

54:58

do well or you can do

55:00

good for the world. And that

55:02

is like a complete lie. usually

55:04

set in motion by the powers

55:06

that be who want to hoard

55:09

wealth and not share with people.

55:11

And programs like the ones you're

55:13

talking about, when you invest in

55:15

a community that some might call

55:17

underdeveloped or whatever adjective, sometimes all

55:19

people need is a jumpstart. It's

55:22

not that different to certain states

55:24

in our country getting huge economic

55:26

boosters with the infrastructure bill that

55:28

President Biden and Vice President Harris

55:30

passed. When you get an infrastructure

55:32

project and you're going to reinforce

55:35

and upgrade every bridge in a

55:37

community like, I don't know, Pittsburgh,

55:39

famous for bridges, not only does

55:41

that make your roads safer, but

55:43

everybody in town who works construction,

55:45

steel, car rentals, trucking, you know,

55:47

down the line to the sandwich

55:50

shops at the ends of the

55:52

bridges, everybody's making more money. And

55:54

so sometimes all you need is

55:56

you need the wind in the

55:58

pinwheel to get it going and

56:00

then it keeps going and so

56:03

It's why I think organizations like

56:05

care are so special because exactly

56:07

what you said. They're not coming

56:09

in saying, we're here to help

56:11

and we know what's best. And

56:13

now we're gonna build an office

56:15

here and we're gonna have employees.

56:18

They're saying, we're gonna come help

56:20

you get started and the pinwheel's

56:22

yours. And that's the way we

56:24

heal, I think, not just neighborhoods

56:26

and municipalities, but the planet. And

56:28

it's why I think it's so

56:31

cool that. You're using your platform

56:33

not just to work with them,

56:35

but this story you're talking about

56:37

when you said the episode for

56:39

our friends at home Bellamy launched

56:41

a podcast called She Leads with

56:44

Care. And it's so inspiring to

56:46

hear these stories of these incredible

56:48

volunteers, organizers. I've listened to some

56:50

of this and gone, oh. that's

56:52

a really good thing to take

56:54

to our local food bank or

56:56

I want to send this to

56:59

three of my friends who really

57:01

care about maternal wellness and have

57:03

them listen to this because it

57:05

feels relevant to what we're working

57:07

on you know with moms that

57:09

are fire victims in LA and

57:12

like it's it's such a lovely

57:14

place to sit and be inspired

57:16

so thank you for doing this

57:18

not just because the world needs

57:20

it but like Selfishly, I really

57:22

needed it. I've been so sad

57:25

and stressed out. No, that's why

57:27

I did it. It came during

57:29

COVID. I was so alone and

57:31

depressed and feeling so unconnected to

57:33

the world and I kept looking

57:35

for stories of hope and connection

57:37

and I kept coming back to

57:40

these care stories. Yes. I thought,

57:42

oh, if I need this. Why

57:44

are we not sharing these women's

57:46

stories with the world? And it's

57:48

not mine to tell. You got

57:50

to let them tell their story.

57:53

You know, I mean, there's no

57:55

substitute for a lived experience and

57:57

I never want to put words

57:59

in anybody's mouth. So we just

58:01

set out to try and... And

58:03

it turned to be, you know,

58:05

we're novices, you're so good at

58:08

this, but we were, we had

58:10

a long learning curve with doing

58:12

a podcast in multiple languages all

58:14

around the world, shipping equipment, you

58:16

know, getting women to, you know,

58:18

four hours where there, where there

58:21

might be Wi-Fi and from really

58:23

rural locations and translating and, you

58:25

know, doing voiceover, you know, that's

58:27

appropriate to the region and to

58:29

the woman because you'd want her.

58:31

life, her life force to stay.

58:34

But it just meant everything to

58:36

me and this year was a

58:38

especially hard year, last year in

58:40

particular, and in so many ways

58:42

personally and in the world. And

58:44

every time I would sit down

58:46

to have a conversation, I would

58:49

cry like more times during the

58:51

conversation just out of gratitude and

58:53

awe and the humble enormity of

58:55

First of all, again, going back

58:57

to the 21st century living, that

58:59

I can have a conversation with

59:02

somebody in Nepal and, you know,

59:04

ask them about to tell me

59:06

about their lived experiences. Miracle. It's

59:08

magical. It's so cool. And then

59:10

to like learn about all these

59:12

things and to be reminded also

59:15

of the grace and gifts that

59:17

we have. I particularly think about

59:19

village savings and loans, like you're

59:21

saying we. Still in the world

59:23

so many places women don't have

59:25

access to Financial freedom. I know

59:27

in America it was what 1974

59:30

when women could get a bank

59:32

account and there is in my

59:34

lifetime I was born in 1970

59:36

I spent since my lifetime that

59:38

a woman could get a bank

59:40

account in that kind of thing

59:43

in America So that still doesn't

59:45

happen in the rest of the

59:47

world so allowing people not even

59:49

investing in people allowing women to

59:51

invest in themselves So much. I

59:53

know it was 1974 I believe

59:55

was a was a bank account

59:58

and then I I can't recall.

1:00:00

going to look and I'll follow

1:00:02

up with you. It was like

1:00:04

1983 or 1988 for a business

1:00:06

loan. Business loan, you're

1:00:08

right, that's true. What? What?

1:00:11

And to your point, you

1:00:13

know, we use that data,

1:00:15

that 90% reinvestment around the

1:00:17

world. It's a, it's a

1:00:19

a stat that we use,

1:00:21

you know, in philanthropy and

1:00:23

social change to talk about

1:00:25

building a better global economy,

1:00:27

and it's often ascribed to,

1:00:29

you know, the developing world,

1:00:31

whatever that, you know, means,

1:00:33

depending on who's using the

1:00:35

term. And women reinvest

1:00:37

90% of what you invest

1:00:39

in them into their children

1:00:41

and into their community and

1:00:43

into their families. And with

1:00:45

men, they invest 90% in

1:00:47

themselves. So the ROI on us is

1:00:50

major and now when you look at

1:00:52

America, women are the

1:00:54

single largest creators of

1:00:56

small businesses in the

1:00:58

country. And among women,

1:01:00

yes, among women, women of

1:01:02

color are leading. And so the

1:01:05

way I think about it when

1:01:07

I put on, you know, my

1:01:09

financial hat, my investor hat is

1:01:12

if 51% of the population has

1:01:14

historically been

1:01:16

under-resourced. We've been

1:01:18

underserved. Yep. Which means we're

1:01:20

missing out on profits, 51%

1:01:22

of the population could be

1:01:25

generating. Yep. And if women

1:01:27

of color in particular have

1:01:29

experienced so much more withholding,

1:01:31

they get underfunded at so

1:01:33

much a greater rate than

1:01:35

even you or I would,

1:01:37

imagine how much unmade profit

1:01:39

is sitting in those sectors

1:01:41

of our country. So I

1:01:43

get really excited when we

1:01:45

start to be able to

1:01:47

prove. these metrics because all

1:01:49

it means is that everybody

1:01:51

does better. Everybody

1:01:54

wins. Everybody wins!

1:01:56

It's opportunities, it's

1:01:58

cultural growth. It's

1:02:00

social change. It's the GDP of a

1:02:02

country. Yeah. It's all of it. And

1:02:04

it goes back to what we were

1:02:07

talking about, about sets. What you guys,

1:02:09

what you can identify and name

1:02:11

that you had on the set

1:02:14

of scandal, because women were in

1:02:16

seats of power benefited the men

1:02:18

also. And I will never forget

1:02:20

one of the most impactful days

1:02:22

of my whole career, full

1:02:24

circle moment, playing a cardiothoracic

1:02:26

surgeon on a TV show.

1:02:28

My mom was like, she

1:02:31

finally did it. My wonderful

1:02:33

head of props, lovely man

1:02:35

named Jordan, local Toronto guy,

1:02:37

one of my favorite humans I've

1:02:39

ever worked with, sidled up to

1:02:41

me one day and I'd been

1:02:43

meeting with our camera department to

1:02:45

go over something and he said, you

1:02:48

know, I really love coming to work here.

1:02:50

And I was like, Jordan, I was

1:02:52

like, dude, we love you. And he goes,

1:02:54

he goes, I love you, man. And I

1:02:56

always feel really special when my guy friends

1:02:59

call me man. I'm like, I made it

1:03:01

in. You're like, yeah. And he goes, he

1:03:03

goes, I love you man. He goes, but

1:03:05

it's bigger than that. He said,

1:03:07

you and Katie, because our showrunner

1:03:09

was a wonderful woman named Katie

1:03:12

Wes, she said, you've made this place so

1:03:14

nice. And it's really nice for me too.

1:03:16

And like, I'm a single white

1:03:18

guy with an expendable income.

1:03:21

And I'm having a nicer time than

1:03:23

I normally do. Like that's it.

1:03:25

Everybody's happier because somebody

1:03:27

thought about child care. Everybody's

1:03:30

doing better because somebody thought

1:03:32

about the lived experiences of everyone

1:03:34

in the room so everyone's quality

1:03:36

of life got better. I think

1:03:38

about you think on the first

1:03:41

trip I went for care I

1:03:43

went to Rwanda in 2019 and

1:03:45

I met this woman named Bridget

1:03:47

who was a VSLA participant. She'd

1:03:49

saved up just like... Well, we think

1:03:52

of as pennies from what her husband would

1:03:54

give her to get groceries or to get

1:03:56

soap or whatever. And it took about a

1:03:58

year to save up enough to invest. and

1:04:00

herself and join a VSLA and another

1:04:02

year until it came time for them

1:04:04

to invest in her and they're like

1:04:06

what's your dream you know what what

1:04:08

do you need to take out of

1:04:10

the fund and she wanted five chickens

1:04:13

and they got she got the five

1:04:15

chickens and you know paid back her

1:04:17

investment and all that sort of thing.

1:04:19

I met her almost six years later,

1:04:21

honey, she had a thousand chickens, she

1:04:24

had two farms, she employed three men,

1:04:26

she gave the community, she got 850

1:04:28

eggs a day, the nutrition in the

1:04:31

community, which had usually subsisted on cassava

1:04:33

and cassava-based products. Yeah, God had soared

1:04:35

through the roof. But one of the things

1:04:37

that made her happiest is that her

1:04:39

marriage was better. It was so much

1:04:42

happier and kinder in her

1:04:44

house because there was equality,

1:04:46

less fear, less status.

1:04:48

And I just think about

1:04:50

that when we're all allowed

1:04:53

to participate with our whole

1:04:55

heart. We're all allowed to give,

1:04:57

all that we have to give,

1:04:59

then everything calms down. Yeah. And

1:05:01

everything can reach its

1:05:04

highest potential. Well, and

1:05:06

what that is, is the

1:05:08

opposite of scarcity. Amen. And

1:05:10

whether there's scarcity or not

1:05:12

scarcity mindset even. That's it.

1:05:15

But this idea that, you know,

1:05:17

pre- 1974, God forbid, you had a

1:05:19

bank account, what are you going to

1:05:21

do with it? You're not looking to

1:05:23

use it as a bully club. You

1:05:25

just want to build something. And so...

1:05:28

I think the us and them

1:05:30

thing is so toxic because what

1:05:32

it actually does is it just

1:05:34

puts everyone in the scarcity mindset.

1:05:37

It puts everyone in the competitive

1:05:39

experience in their own house, like

1:05:41

your friend Bridget, and then you

1:05:43

flip it, everybody grows, everybody

1:05:46

does better, incomes get

1:05:48

bigger and more stable, education

1:05:50

gets bigger and more stable,

1:05:53

nutrition in community gets bigger,

1:05:55

expanded, more stable, doing better

1:05:58

and her husband didn't. anything

1:06:00

because she succeeded. They both

1:06:02

won. Yeah. You know, the two

1:06:04

of them, the one plus one,

1:06:06

became three. Yeah. Instead of one

1:06:08

and one fighting over one. And

1:06:10

I think that is, that's

1:06:12

a universal story. And that's

1:06:15

part of why I think

1:06:17

your, your podcast, like, everybody

1:06:19

you're interviewing around the world

1:06:21

is in a unique place with

1:06:23

a unique experience, but the core

1:06:25

of the story is so universal.

1:06:28

Yeah. When I'm, you know, sitting here

1:06:31

pouring over the articles

1:06:33

and panicking about, you

1:06:35

know, what's going to happen

1:06:37

to all the kids that

1:06:39

are about to lose access

1:06:41

to education with no Department of

1:06:44

Ed, podcasts like yours are

1:06:46

really fortifying for me. So

1:06:48

thank you so much. It

1:06:51

did land in an unexpected

1:06:53

time. Much of this platform

1:06:56

that you've built is so

1:06:58

clearly... positive. Is it weird

1:07:00

to think like I was

1:07:02

a kid who grew up

1:07:04

and wanted to sing and

1:07:06

and maybe study science? And

1:07:08

now I'm like out here

1:07:11

as this, you know, positive

1:07:13

influence for social change and

1:07:15

activism and advocacy. Is

1:07:17

it crazy a little bit or

1:07:20

does it just feel right? I don't

1:07:22

know. I don't know. I don't know.

1:07:24

I think when I engage

1:07:26

in socials. It is often

1:07:29

with trepidation because I'm

1:07:31

always afraid of me to

1:07:33

see something that crushes me. It

1:07:35

just crushes me. Because people are

1:07:38

so mean. Yeah, it's really

1:07:40

like it, it takes, yeah, it takes a

1:07:42

lot. It really, I have. I have fear

1:07:44

around it, so I never want to be

1:07:46

a part of contributing to anyone else's fear.

1:07:48

I want if somebody notices something that I

1:07:50

have in my heart and want to share,

1:07:52

I want them to feel like they got

1:07:55

hugged afterwards. I want them to feel a

1:07:57

little bit better about themselves. I want them

1:07:59

maybe to remember. that that joy is

1:08:01

in them too. Oh yeah, I had

1:08:03

a day like that too. Or, you

1:08:05

know, like to see themselves reflected and

1:08:08

to see a space for safety and

1:08:10

love. I really, really, that's all I

1:08:12

want. That's what I want to share.

1:08:15

And also, I'll say in these times

1:08:17

where I get scared and hopeless and

1:08:19

start to feel disconnected again like in

1:08:22

COVID, the only tonic. is to

1:08:24

know that people are doing the

1:08:26

work and that if we all

1:08:28

did just, you know, if we

1:08:30

all just made a few choices

1:08:32

in our day that connected us,

1:08:34

if we were all just a

1:08:36

little bit of service, or if

1:08:38

we all just raised up a

1:08:40

little bit of positivity, the aggregate,

1:08:42

like that butterfly effect, those ripples.

1:08:44

I mean there's nothing could stop

1:08:46

us with that intentional love and

1:08:48

that sort of the fuel and

1:08:50

the engine of that progress goodness

1:08:52

inclusion help just helping each other

1:08:54

we're all going to need help

1:08:56

we all are and we're all

1:08:58

going to be in a position

1:09:00

to give help and so if

1:09:02

we just stay present and open

1:09:04

enough to see where we are

1:09:06

on the seesaw and tune in

1:09:08

and engage in life. I think

1:09:11

I spent a lot of time

1:09:13

hiding in my life and so

1:09:15

now I just always want to

1:09:17

be the loving act for myself

1:09:19

is to engage with all

1:09:22

the positivity I can because we

1:09:24

are all so capable of making

1:09:26

good change in this world if

1:09:28

we feel safe enough to do

1:09:30

so. I love that. When

1:09:33

you think about all of

1:09:35

this, you know, how all these

1:09:37

elements and passions and beliefs

1:09:39

kind of add up into

1:09:41

the work you do, and really

1:09:44

I think into the person you

1:09:46

are in the world, and you look

1:09:48

kind of out at the horizon

1:09:50

line, whatever is ad for

1:09:52

you, for us, is there something

1:09:55

that pops up that you go

1:09:57

that's my work in progress?

1:09:59

or is it kind of

1:10:02

continuing

1:10:04

to figure out how

1:10:06

to hold the whole

1:10:09

thing? We think my

1:10:11

work in progress

1:10:13

is showing up honestly.

1:10:17

Yeah, like getting through

1:10:19

the stuff from

1:10:21

my childhood, getting

1:10:24

through the people

1:10:27

pleasing. getting through

1:10:29

the may I add very

1:10:31

happy years of spending all

1:10:33

my time pretending to be

1:10:36

someone else which was you

1:10:38

know on screen and off

1:10:40

and then you know

1:10:42

COVID happened the industry

1:10:44

changed like there's been

1:10:47

some years of nowhere to

1:10:49

hide and lots happened in

1:10:52

my personal life during

1:10:54

that time and through

1:10:56

the work on myself

1:10:58

and by being

1:11:01

scrupulous about who

1:11:03

I surround myself with. I just try

1:11:05

and what I surround what I feel

1:11:07

my day with right like I love

1:11:09

to work hard I love to work

1:11:11

hard it makes me really happy it

1:11:14

makes you feel engaged I really love

1:11:16

to work hard but but you have

1:11:18

to like be sure that you're we

1:11:20

have such a little time on this

1:11:22

planet and so you have to really

1:11:24

be sure you're not chasing your tail

1:11:26

right that what you're doing is in

1:11:28

alignment with your heart and you know

1:11:30

with your why your soul came on

1:11:33

this planet, whatever its mission might

1:11:35

have been. So you find

1:11:37

those people that are safe

1:11:39

to share your heart with

1:11:41

and your truth. And this

1:11:43

year has just afforded

1:11:45

me the opportunity to

1:11:47

decide whether or not to share

1:11:50

that more broadly. Like I

1:11:52

wrote a little article about my

1:11:54

mom and all she went through

1:11:57

and to the podcast and haughty

1:11:59

wrote. Why a sci-fi like the

1:12:01

first novel on a trilogy with

1:12:03

my dear friend Fay we're gonna

1:12:06

put it out in June That's

1:12:08

my dream Oh my god we

1:12:10

had so much fun sphere. Oh

1:12:12

my we just had the best

1:12:15

time. So the the Ethereum code

1:12:17

book one the spark look for

1:12:19

it, but so it's been really

1:12:21

fun to Just yeah just meet

1:12:23

each moment in a much more

1:12:26

honest way and that still that

1:12:28

will still make me stutter sometimes.

1:12:30

I used to really stutter when

1:12:32

I was being honest because it was

1:12:34

just too scary. How like singing

1:12:37

helped because singing is such an

1:12:39

honest gift you give either yourself

1:12:41

or if someone might be listening

1:12:43

but it helps get you on

1:12:45

your breath and in your body

1:12:47

and but I still stutter if

1:12:49

I'm like that's how I can

1:12:51

tell I'm not in a safe

1:12:54

situation. Yes. Is when I, when

1:12:56

I am giving my truth and

1:12:58

it starts to flutter me, I

1:13:00

think, oh honey, maybe, you know,

1:13:02

throttle down, maybe this isn't the

1:13:04

place or the time. But so

1:13:07

yeah, I think, I think showing

1:13:09

up honestly in my life is

1:13:11

my, is my continued work in

1:13:13

progress. And who knows where that'll

1:13:15

go? Who knows? That's beautiful.

1:13:18

I think especially when

1:13:20

the sort of gift in

1:13:22

the curse. of this beautiful

1:13:24

job is that you get

1:13:26

so good at performing and

1:13:28

you're also always

1:13:30

expected to be on and

1:13:32

being a human in the

1:13:34

world and wanting to go

1:13:37

be in the world wanting

1:13:39

to go walk through Manhattan

1:13:41

means you probably have to

1:13:44

perform for people even on

1:13:46

your day off and it

1:13:48

can be so hard to

1:13:50

learn. how to just be

1:13:53

yourself when you're not

1:13:56

on. And I think, you

1:13:58

know, when you said... at

1:14:00

the top of the hour, you

1:14:02

were talking about how it's a

1:14:04

lifelong journey, you know, the distance

1:14:06

and the healing and the reclaiming

1:14:09

all those parts of yourself.

1:14:11

That's one of the things I'm

1:14:13

trying to reclaim is like, who

1:14:15

am I when I'm not trying

1:14:17

to make someone else this

1:14:19

day? Because that's such a gift,

1:14:22

but it's also a gift I

1:14:24

have to give away every time. And

1:14:26

when was the last time I gave

1:14:28

it to me? And I'm

1:14:30

working on it. Baby steps.

1:14:33

Baby steps. And often

1:14:35

awareness, right? That'll

1:14:38

elanon adage awareness

1:14:40

acceptance action, right? Yep.

1:14:42

That's it. Oh my goodness.

1:14:44

You're just such a joy. Thank

1:14:47

you for this. I'm like, I

1:14:49

want to talk about a thousand

1:14:51

more things with you, but not

1:14:54

on a recording and over a

1:14:56

bottle of wine. I like it.

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