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it is a weird time

2:07

to be making content, certainly

2:09

from here in Los Angeles,

2:11

California. This wonderful episode with

2:13

Lily, we actually recorded a

2:15

few weeks before the fires

2:17

and now it's up and

2:19

We won't be discussing it

2:22

obviously on this episode since

2:24

it hadn't happened yet, but

2:26

I just wanted to make

2:28

sure that everyone knows there

2:30

are so many incredible resources

2:32

and groups that you can

2:35

support. I've actually got a

2:37

really wonderful mutual aid list

2:39

in a highlight on my

2:41

Instagram stories, and we will

2:43

put it in the show

2:45

notes as well. If you

2:47

have a heart for the

2:50

people and places that make

2:52

LA so wonderful and special,

2:54

please consider visiting that and

2:56

supporting our city. Love you

2:58

all. I hope you're staying

3:00

safe. Welcome to work in

3:02

progress. Hi, Whipsmarties. Today, we

3:05

are joined by someone I

3:07

have been a fan of

3:09

for such a long time.

3:11

I am so impressed and

3:13

I so admire the way

3:15

that she carries herself, the

3:17

things she's willing to talk

3:20

about. The ways she's willing

3:22

to send her really human

3:24

experiences in a world that

3:26

doesn't always want to do

3:28

that, and she happens to

3:30

be brilliant, stunning, an entrepreneur,

3:33

a producer, an incredible actor,

3:35

and an author, today's guest

3:37

is none other than Lily

3:39

Reinhart. You likely met Lily

3:41

portraying Betty Cooper on the

3:43

CW drama series Riverdale. Can't

3:45

wait to talk to her

3:48

about our high school experiences

3:50

on the CDB. She has

3:52

worked on incredible films from

3:54

Hustlers to Chemical Hearts and

3:56

she recently launched her own

3:58

production company. On top of

4:00

all of this incredible success,

4:03

Lily released a book of

4:05

poetry in 2020 titled Swimming

4:07

Lessons, and her book explores

4:09

themes like young love, anxiety,

4:11

depression, fame, heartbreak. These are

4:13

the kinds of things she's

4:16

really heart forward about discussing

4:18

with her audience. She really

4:20

welcomes folks in to talk

4:22

about everything from insecurity to

4:24

body dysmorphia to depression, and

4:26

I really... think she is

4:28

doing such an incredible service

4:30

to the world with the conversations

4:33

that she chooses to have and

4:35

the tenderness with which she chooses

4:37

to have them. And I'm really

4:39

excited for all of you to

4:41

hear today's conversation because that tenderness

4:43

carries through this episode as well.

4:45

Enjoy. Well,

4:56

first of all, it was so

4:59

much fun to get to see

5:01

you last week and against this.

5:03

I just loved that. Me too.

5:05

Yeah, I've admired your work and

5:07

the way that you use your

5:09

platform and the things that you choose

5:11

to talk about for such a

5:13

long time. So I'm thrilled you're

5:15

here too. Yeah, I was really

5:17

happy. Days of events, I kind of

5:20

am always going, why did I say

5:22

yes to this all day long? Because

5:24

I just... I just have the social

5:26

anxiety, so I have to really

5:28

push myself to leave my house

5:30

and go to those things, but

5:33

I'm always, I mean, always usually

5:35

happy that I do and that

5:37

I'm there. So I always walk away,

5:39

I'm like, okay. It was like the

5:41

fear of going was much worse than

5:43

the actual thing. Yeah, the

5:45

anticipatory anxiety is often worse

5:48

for me than the experiential

5:50

anxiety, but It doesn't mean

5:52

I don't have it. I can try to

5:54

talk myself out of it the whole time,

5:56

but it doesn't leave my body till I

5:59

get to the thing. into people that I've

6:01

been excited to me or I see

6:03

friends and then I'm like, what was

6:05

I so freaked out? Wow. Yeah, I

6:07

mean, there is like, because it's not

6:10

just go to a party, it's like

6:12

you're hiring people and you're having to

6:14

look good and like get the freaking

6:16

glam photo and make sure you are

6:18

in a social mood or whatever. And

6:20

I don't know. It's just, it's not

6:23

like going to a regular party. There's

6:25

just like, like, it feels like, it

6:27

feels like work. to me. So it's

6:29

like ultimately I'm going to work in

6:31

a way. Totally it is absolutely work

6:33

and I also giggled because I'd had

6:36

to go to something before and the

6:38

the thing I went to earlier to

6:40

see some friends as I was leaving

6:42

I got caught in like one of

6:44

those moments of just LA rain. So

6:46

by the time I got back across

6:49

town to see all of you guys

6:51

I'd gotten wet. I was in velvet.

6:53

I had like a cool hair tuck

6:55

moment happening. And then by the time

6:57

I got to our event, I looked

6:59

at the photos and I was like,

7:02

cool. I just looked like I gently

7:04

electrocuted myself. And it was like this

7:06

moment where I was like, you kind

7:08

of just got to let it go.

7:10

Like I don't know. No one would

7:12

have ever known. You're very sweet, but

7:15

it was like this very funny moment

7:17

where I was like, am I going

7:19

to let the fact that I'm a

7:21

frisball now. make me go home or

7:23

am I just going to go see

7:25

my pals and I was doing that

7:28

that I came to see everyone. You

7:30

looked so lovely and there was no

7:32

one would have ever seen no one

7:34

ever knows. No one knows. No one

7:36

knows the stuff. Right? I had to

7:38

have be like safety pinned like the

7:41

I did a beauty con in November

7:43

and the Taylor accidentally took the buttons

7:45

off my sleeves so we had to

7:47

like safety pin them and who gives

7:49

a shit that's fine you know it's

7:51

like a little bit like oh this

7:54

sucks and you're rushing out the door

7:56

while it's happening and like safety pin

7:58

things, but I've

8:00

had some red carpet

8:02

moments like that a few

8:04

times. And that always is, it

8:07

doesn't help the anxiety. My best

8:09

friend in college split her pants

8:11

at a party. We were really,

8:13

we were having a great night.

8:16

It turned into like a dance -off

8:18

moment. Everything was great. And

8:20

then she forgot how inflexible said

8:22

pair of pants was and

8:25

split them. And I happened to

8:27

have safety pins in my

8:29

bag because I was coming to this

8:31

thing from class. And ever since, I've

8:33

always made sure to carry a couple

8:35

of safety pins in a clutch when

8:37

I go out to something, just in

8:39

case it happens to someone else. So

8:41

I feel you on the safety pinnage

8:44

there. Yeah, I've definitely had an entire

8:46

dress fully break. And

8:49

it's like, I mean, some of these things,

8:51

I just, I'm like, I got to

8:53

give this over to God here. Like there's

8:55

really nothing I can do in this

8:57

moment. And at the end of the day,

8:59

it's like a red carpet that no

9:01

one but me will like ever really remember.

9:05

Totally. So yeah, stuff like that where I'm

9:07

like, actually no one but me is

9:09

actually fully paying attention to like me in

9:11

this moment, if that makes sense. Maybe

9:13

that's a stupid thing to say when you

9:16

have like fans who actually are very

9:18

much paying attention. But I guess I'm like,

9:20

I'm going to hold on to the

9:22

things that go wrong. And no one else

9:24

is going to really notice them. Exactly.

9:26

And if I look back, if I look

9:28

bad on a carpet, the only person

9:30

that that's hurting is me ultimately. So no

9:32

one's really going to care. Yeah. But

9:34

it doesn't lessen the experience. But

9:36

I'm so, I

9:40

love that we get

9:42

to talk about these things, honestly, because

9:45

I feel like when I

9:47

started working in TV, nobody wanted to

9:49

talk about anxiety. Everyone was like, you're

9:51

so privileged. How dare you talk about

9:53

stress or whatever. And it's like, I

9:55

actually think it's quite refreshing to know

9:57

that everyone is human. I'm

10:00

really curious for you. I normally

10:02

dive in with this question, but

10:04

we started in the present. I

10:07

want to know a little

10:09

bit about your childhood, because

10:11

I think it's really interesting

10:13

to sit down with people

10:15

who our audiences know, generally

10:17

from a body of work. And

10:20

I want to know if your version

10:22

of yourself today got to sit

10:24

down with your eight or nine

10:26

or ten year old self. Would

10:28

you see the through line from

10:30

what she was really interested to

10:32

what you do now? Did you

10:34

always want to be a performer

10:37

or did this sort of all come

10:39

out of the ether? You know it

10:41

was really I think in my bones

10:44

and I always think it was

10:46

a little bit written in

10:48

the stars because I never

10:50

had really a backup plan

10:52

and I never wanted one.

10:54

And that's a bit hard

10:56

to tell your family who's

10:59

never, no one in my family

11:01

was in this field and no

11:03

one was in the arts and

11:05

to pursue it from Bay Village

11:07

Ohio was just sort of a

11:10

far-off dream seemingly. So it was

11:12

a big big dream for kind

11:14

of a small town and and

11:16

to have no connections it was

11:18

sort of like okay sure dream

11:21

big and I was never told

11:23

not to but I absolutely

11:25

came into the world liking to

11:27

entertain people and be funny and

11:29

goofy around my family. And weirdly

11:32

though, was shy and had social

11:34

anxiety, like to the point where

11:36

when I was very young, they

11:38

didn't want to go to birthday

11:40

parties. I didn't want to be,

11:43

I was nervous to be around,

11:45

I guess, the other kids, but

11:47

more so I think it was

11:49

like nervousness to be away from

11:51

my mother. It was very attached

11:54

to her. But within my family

11:56

and friends, I was always

11:58

wanting to perform. and silly

12:00

and I grew up making videos

12:02

on a camera for myself that

12:05

I would show my family, forcing

12:07

them to watch these probably not

12:09

very entertaining videos, but discovering Windows

12:12

Movie Maker when I was 13

12:14

or something and editing together my

12:16

own little. movies and adding music

12:18

to them and making my sister

12:21

do it with me and every

12:23

time my friends came over we

12:25

would be like let's make a

12:27

it was like let's make a

12:30

video and I think that seems

12:32

to be quite common with a

12:34

lot of you know actors I

12:36

find did that as a kid

12:39

so that's seems to be kind

12:41

of a common thing but but

12:43

there was definitely always that desire

12:45

to perform and be creative and

12:48

yeah I mean if I sat

12:50

down with my little 10 year

12:52

old self it would be it

12:55

would be like yeah I'm still

12:57

you I'm still this kind of

12:59

shy and and it's interesting as

13:01

I've grown up and I don't

13:04

I don't love this but like

13:06

I've almost turned into instead of

13:08

like shy, I fear that sometimes

13:10

it can come off as more

13:13

of like a Larry David version

13:15

of myself or it's a little

13:17

bit like, maybe I come off

13:19

as a little cold. because of

13:22

how introverted I am. Whereas I

13:24

feel when I was younger and

13:26

I was introverted it was like,

13:28

oh, she's shy. Like it's very

13:31

easy to point to a kid

13:33

who's introverted and say, she's shy.

13:35

And when you're older, especially even

13:38

in high school, maybe I was

13:40

projecting, but I think I maybe

13:42

was seen as kind of a

13:44

bitch because I was shy. trying

13:47

to be an actor in the

13:49

small town so it kind of

13:51

gave the illusion of, oh, who

13:53

does this girl think she is?

13:56

And she's maybe. But I really

13:58

like, I would try to put

14:00

myself. out there, but ultimately I

14:02

was, I felt shy. But when

14:05

people gave me a chance, I

14:07

would be excited and try to

14:09

be warm, but ultimately, I think

14:11

as I've gotten older, I'm like,

14:14

I've just soured with age. But

14:16

I've just kind of, I guess,

14:18

I can come off a little

14:21

bit like a little Larry, Larry

14:23

David in me. I'm like a

14:25

28 year old, Larry David woman.

14:28

That's great. There's things

14:30

to work on for sure. I

14:32

mean, it's a little, to hear

14:34

I was given that comparison the

14:37

other day, and I was a bit like,

14:39

oh, is this this, am I, like,

14:41

I love him and I love curbier

14:43

enthusiasm, but I'm like,

14:45

to be compared as a human

14:47

being to like a grouchy old

14:49

man, I don't know. But ultimately,

14:52

we'll, we'll grow from it and

14:54

be like, okay, so we've maybe

14:56

got to like work on the,

14:59

warming up around

15:01

around people were seeming

15:03

more warm I also

15:06

think there's a really

15:09

odd thing to a lot

15:11

of fame so young for

15:13

sure you know I would

15:16

imagine for you

15:18

you know you got

15:20

cast on Riverdale at

15:22

19 like I was

15:24

I think I think

15:26

I'd been 21 for I

15:28

don't know. 15 days or something when

15:30

I got to Wilmington to do

15:33

One Tree Hill. Your prefrontal cortex

15:35

isn't done developing until you're 26.

15:37

Like it's a lot. You know,

15:40

I remember feeling like I could

15:42

really prove that I was an

15:44

adult and looking back on it,

15:47

especially with all of us girls going

15:49

back to start re-watching the show together.

15:51

We're so shocked. We're like, we were

15:53

children. We were babies. Who let us

15:55

out of the house? Who let us

15:57

do this? Who put us on a

15:59

set? Who told us to pretend we

16:01

knew what we were doing so we

16:04

wouldn't embarrass ourselves? We were children. We

16:06

should have just been like, we have

16:08

no idea what we're doing. And I'm

16:10

sure there was no essence of media

16:12

training back then. Oh, no. I thought

16:14

if someone asked you a question, you

16:16

had to answer it. You were thrown

16:19

to the wolves. Mm-hmm, really? And we,

16:21

like, we all are, because no one

16:23

ever, no one ever gives you any

16:25

sort of rule book and... when I

16:27

think maybe they should, it would have

16:29

been helpful to have like some basic

16:31

outlines, but I guess you kind of,

16:34

you're almost like, let me look to

16:36

my elders and the people playing our

16:38

parents on the show were happy to

16:40

give advice and stuff like that, but

16:42

you really are like trial by fire.

16:44

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Purdue Global. EDU. Do you

19:50

immediately think about what the

19:52

audition process was like? Do

19:54

you think about the kind of

19:57

whoa what's happening moment when the show

19:59

is this huge? and suddenly you

20:01

have all this on

20:03

your shoulders, what kind

20:05

of comes up there? It's

20:07

like a big deep breath

20:10

to think about in a

20:12

way. Wow. Because it was

20:14

seven years and it was

20:16

from 19 to 26 and

20:18

I'm 28 now and having

20:20

time away from it and

20:22

I always knew doing it

20:24

is so hard and being

20:27

in it. is really challenging

20:30

to fully move and vacate

20:32

your life that I'm

20:34

trying to start for

20:36

myself in LA. And

20:38

I remember not even

20:40

knowing that the show

20:42

filmed in Vancouver until

20:44

I was on the

20:46

phone with my lawyer

20:48

and he's saying, those

20:50

shoots in Vancouver. And I

20:52

didn't was like, where

20:54

is that? So it was just

20:57

this. pick yourself up out of

20:59

this chapter of your life and

21:01

plop you down here and figure

21:03

it out and it is kind

21:06

of figured out and I think

21:08

people expect people are always

21:10

shocked they're like where did you

21:12

say like where were they putting

21:14

you up and it's like no you

21:16

relocate your life yeah they don't

21:18

put you up they don't pay

21:20

for anything they give you a

21:23

relocation fee and that last yeah

21:25

that's supposed to last day a

21:27

day and yeah that gets you

21:29

your first plane ticket and maybe

21:31

if you're lucky you get to ship

21:34

your car I shipped my car

21:36

to Washington and then I drove

21:38

it over the border and smart

21:40

but I also like at the

21:42

time I remember having to tell

21:44

my publicist I was like I

21:46

actually can't afford you at all

21:48

can we can you miss for

21:50

a public and it's it's No one

21:52

really tells you how to deal

21:54

with that as well when you're

21:57

making money so young and given

21:59

that responsibility. That was also trippy,

22:01

weird. It's a weird thing to

22:04

move very quickly from struggling financially

22:06

to being the most financially secure

22:08

person around you. Yeah. It's a

22:11

bit of a shift. I think

22:13

mentally for a young person in

22:15

their 20s and luckily I'm very

22:18

responsible with money. But it is

22:20

a weird shift. But I think

22:23

it was more so for me

22:25

kind of having to move my

22:27

whole life to a different country.

22:30

And yes, it was Canada. So

22:32

we're not moving somewhere crazy far

22:35

away. It's a three-hour flight to

22:37

LA. But ultimately, finding a new

22:39

apartment. Suddenly, a life there. And

22:42

then that extends to seven years.

22:44

And it is, I look back

22:47

really fondly. working with wonderful people

22:49

that I love really dearly and

22:51

will always hold such a, I

22:54

mean, you know, like you just

22:56

hold a special place in your

22:58

heart for these people that you

23:01

were on this journey with that

23:03

so few people understand what it's

23:06

like to just be a part

23:08

of a television show. And so

23:10

I understand the privilege in that

23:13

and I'm like, wow, I'm so

23:15

lucky I have that experience. Because

23:18

I think it's rare and it's

23:20

wonderful to have a show for

23:22

seven years. It's like a blessing

23:25

and And I look at it

23:27

as such absolutely and and although

23:29

it was hard and had its

23:32

challenges I I really do see

23:34

it as it's the reason why

23:37

I'm sitting in my house and

23:39

it's Yeah, I'm You know was

23:41

able to then have a production

23:44

company and do everything else that

23:46

I did it was a catalyst

23:49

for my whole career and so

23:51

Yeah, it absolutely changed my life

23:53

and was the biggest pivotal moment

23:56

in my career thus far. Totally.

23:58

Yeah, and it... I think it

24:00

can be all of those things,

24:02

you know, it can be something

24:05

you're so grateful for, it can

24:07

be something that was incredibly trying.

24:09

I think, you know, like my heart

24:11

just swells hearing you talk because

24:13

I know what it is to love

24:15

a group of people and also

24:17

to be completely isolated and in

24:19

some senses trapped with a group of

24:22

people. Yeah. Because you do, it's sort

24:24

of like, my girlfriend and I were

24:26

talking about this the other day. She

24:28

was in LA visiting and we hadn't

24:31

seen each other in a while. I

24:33

just realized I'm saying this, I mean,

24:35

one of my girlfriends from my show,

24:37

not like my girlfriend, like my romantic

24:39

partner. Most clarify for the audience. They're

24:42

going to be like, who is she

24:44

talking about? Yeah, what's girlfriend? Yes, platonic

24:46

girlfriend. And, you know, she was out

24:48

from the East Coast and we were just

24:50

talking about some things. And I said, I

24:53

have this really crazy kind of

24:55

visual kind of visual. When you

24:57

see those videos of bald

24:59

eagles plucking salmon up out

25:01

of the river and it's

25:03

so majestic, but it's like,

25:05

it's like, eagles pluck you

25:07

out of your life and

25:09

then they just drop you

25:11

in a nest and you're

25:13

like, where am I? Where

25:15

is water? What is this?

25:17

And you know, everyone's like,

25:19

aren't you so excited? And

25:22

you're like, yes, but also

25:24

I think I'm terrified. having

25:26

a Twitter into that equation.

25:28

Absolutely not. And it's, or

25:30

any form of social media,

25:32

and it's horrible. It's

25:34

way, way scarier. Yeah. Just

25:37

because no one, there's

25:39

just no one to tell you

25:41

that you're about to be

25:43

hated on so hard. Just

25:46

for existing. And what the

25:48

fuck do you do with

25:50

that fuck do you do you do

25:52

it? You know, it's a really weird

25:55

thing because we didn't have

25:57

that when our show first

25:59

started. Yeah. But what existed in the

26:01

vacuum were the tabloids. Yes. And they're

26:04

still around, but they can't completely create

26:06

a narrative of who you are because

26:08

you get to be who you are

26:10

in whatever way you choose to on

26:12

social. Yeah. One of the really interesting

26:14

things for us was like, oh, we're

26:17

all just going to be cast as

26:19

these archetypes. And then that's who you're

26:21

going to want us to be. By

26:23

the way. or ever. Not even when

26:25

it doesn't really even get to change

26:27

when we can have our own social

26:30

media because you made so much money

26:32

click baiting us as these people for

26:34

10 years before it existed that you're

26:36

desperate for more of it and and

26:38

that's an interesting thing too because like

26:41

Hillary always used to say that she's

26:43

like dude the behind-the-scenes drama on our

26:45

show is so extra like literally I

26:47

don't know how true this is for

26:49

yours but like everyone on our show

26:51

dated everyone on our show and she's

26:54

like thanks for taking the tabloid bullets

26:56

for the rest of us baby and

26:58

I'm like yeah thanks you and you

27:00

yeah yeah I mean yes now because

27:02

it's like we're kids and what are

27:04

you gonna do it's like it's literally

27:07

they they put you back in high

27:09

school yeah I I would watch some

27:11

of the things I would just see

27:13

because we're all online about you guys

27:15

in your world and I was like

27:18

god I love so much of what

27:20

you're getting to do and the ways

27:22

you're getting to do and the ways

27:24

you're at least appeared, you know, these

27:26

incredibly strong female friendships. And I would

27:28

kind of see the desire for people

27:31

to click bait your lives. And I

27:33

don't know if you want to talk

27:35

about it or not. And you can

27:37

absolutely say now and then we'll just

27:39

cut it. But it's like, when I

27:42

when I saw just as the internet

27:44

surfaces things on your explore page, like

27:46

you and Cole falling in love as

27:48

like young kids on a show, I

27:50

was like, oh my God, I hope

27:52

someone protects these babies because I've been

27:55

through it through it. And I don't

27:57

know, it's in one way, I'm so

27:59

excited you guys got. to be yourselves

28:01

in your own space. And there wasn't

28:03

a vacuum that people wanted to fill

28:05

for you. But also, the fact that

28:08

you can have your own identity

28:10

online then opens you up to

28:12

being one singular human, receiving feedback

28:14

from tens of millions of people

28:17

a day. And it's not normal

28:19

and it's not sustainable. And I

28:21

know it's hard for me. And like,

28:23

you know. I don't know, what am

28:26

I 15 years older than you or

28:28

something? Like I can't imagine how hard

28:30

it is for you, how hard it

28:32

was. So I don't know, how did

28:35

you make sense of it? Well, I

28:37

also can't imagine living in a world

28:39

where you are not in charge of

28:41

your own public narrative at all. I

28:44

mean, I can't, we both can, there's,

28:46

you know, I can't imagine. And to

28:48

feel even that I have a platform

28:51

of my own that's... even now I'm

28:53

sort of sometimes, you know, it still

28:55

is. I think about social

28:58

media a lot, especially

29:00

lately, and I think, I think

29:02

it's really bad. I think at

29:04

the end of the day, I

29:06

wish I could have been someone

29:09

who just never had to

29:11

have it because I think

29:13

ultimately it's caused a lot

29:16

of stress and anxiety for

29:18

me on the flip side.

29:21

When you're starting out in your

29:24

career, this is how you build your career

29:26

these days. You people need to see

29:28

who you are, international fans need to

29:30

be able to connect and follow you.

29:33

But yeah, I mean, suddenly you're

29:35

subjected to, not that you're not

29:37

going to be anyways, because regardless

29:39

of whether you have an account or

29:42

not, people will comment on you forever.

29:44

So it's like, either you have a

29:46

social media or you don't, people are

29:49

going to still talk about you, but

29:51

to be. with my own eyes

29:53

viewing like as a almost an

29:55

audience member what people have

29:57

to say about you. or

30:00

your life or your relationship

30:02

or be what you're wearing

30:04

on a carpet. It's just,

30:06

it really does put this

30:08

idea that whoever you're seeing

30:10

on the other end of

30:12

social media is just this

30:14

figure that's moving around and

30:16

you're seeing, oh they're there

30:18

now, oh they're in New

30:20

York now, oh they're in

30:22

LA and they're doing this

30:24

thing and they look beautiful

30:26

and now maybe they don't

30:28

look so good and now

30:30

all these other things. And

30:32

it really is, and I

30:34

was thinking about this the

30:36

other night, like, no wonder,

30:38

we as a society, I

30:40

feel, are dealing with such

30:42

unhappiness right now. And the

30:44

levels of anxiety in young

30:46

people and depression and suicide

30:48

rates are just out of

30:50

control. And it's because we

30:52

sit on our little black

30:54

boxes, that being an iPhone

30:56

and look at. This narrative

30:58

that everyone is choosing to

31:00

show the world. It's what

31:02

narrative are you showing? You're

31:04

obviously not going to show

31:07

the bad parts. Yeah, and

31:09

this is not a revelatory.

31:11

I'm not saying anything revelatory

31:13

by any means, but it's

31:15

I think it's a good

31:17

reminder because I think when

31:19

I set on my Instagram.

31:21

I feel Instagram, I'm becoming

31:23

very distant from Instagram because

31:25

I feel that that is

31:27

the most fake form of

31:29

social media. Currently, TikTok for

31:31

me, I feel is more

31:33

authentic. You see people telling

31:35

real stories. It doesn't feel

31:37

like they're trying to present

31:39

a front. I feel they're

31:41

genuinely TikTok people. that I

31:43

see or follow are presenting

31:45

this is what's going on

31:47

in my life this is

31:49

what sucks and then you

31:51

see camaraderie usually in the

31:53

comments of people sharing stories

31:55

and being there for each

31:57

other and just being there's

31:59

this openness about it whereas

32:01

you go on this glossy

32:03

Instagram and everyone, including myself,

32:05

is curating this image and

32:07

presenting the prettiest glam

32:09

photos and this is me

32:12

with all my friends or

32:14

you're just presenting the best,

32:16

you know. Well, and it's

32:19

interesting because yes, absolutely, you're

32:21

right. And it's so weird

32:23

to... My friend Kathleen said

32:26

something the other day that I

32:28

thought was really... wise. She was like,

32:30

here's my catch up, you know,

32:32

photo carousel on Instagram. She goes, to

32:34

be clear, this is the highlight real,

32:37

but the low lights don't go on

32:39

Instagram. They go to the group chat.

32:41

Yeah. And I was like, yeah, because why

32:43

would you want everybody's opinions on

32:45

what you're struggling with? They're already

32:48

so horrible to you on what's

32:50

going well. Yeah. So it's very

32:52

tricky. This, it's a constant sort

32:55

of question I have of What

32:57

do I want to open up and

32:59

what do I not? There's so many

33:01

things I don't share. And in

33:03

a way, I think privacy is so

33:05

important, but also when you

33:08

don't share, there's that vacuum

33:10

again. So it's like, I don't know

33:12

what it is. And I think that's

33:14

why, to go back to what I

33:16

was saying when we first got into

33:19

the zoom room together, I

33:21

really appreciate what you choose to.

33:23

share with people and how intentional it

33:25

seems you want to be about

33:27

it because in a lot of

33:29

ways that's something I've been trying

33:31

to do for as long as

33:33

I've been on the internet too

33:35

and I appreciate that yes you'll

33:37

go to this you know beautiful event

33:40

but be like I was also

33:42

actually really anxious and last week

33:44

I was talking about what it's

33:46

like to deal with cystic acne

33:48

or depression or like We aren't

33:50

paper dolls where everything is perfect.

33:52

We're actually these three-dimensional humans and

33:54

shit's complicated always for everyone. And

33:56

I like that you're willing to

33:58

discuss it particularly. as a

34:00

woman in your peer group, particularly

34:03

as a person who did launch

34:05

into success on a hit show

34:07

during social media, not free, and

34:09

then having to figure out how

34:12

to navigate it. I'm curious how

34:14

you felt, was it sort of

34:16

obvious? Like, of course I'm gonna

34:18

talk about the real stuff, or

34:21

were you ever nervous to say,

34:23

I actually am a person who

34:25

suffers from depression and anxiety. Was

34:27

that? Was that unnerving or did

34:30

it feel important or maybe it

34:32

was a little bit of both?

34:34

I well, thank you for everything

34:36

you said, but I I don't

34:39

actually ever really remember Stopping and

34:41

thinking this is what I'm going

34:43

to stand for and you're almost

34:45

you start kind of having weirdly

34:48

those conversations when to me my

34:50

experience was like when you meet

34:52

with publicists You start kind of

34:55

talking about your image and you're

34:57

sort of for the first time

34:59

having to think about your image

35:01

like I had never had to

35:04

think about it before obviously it's

35:06

so hard and now it's like

35:08

who do you want no one

35:10

I don't think anyone was directly

35:13

asking me this but the subtext

35:15

was who would you like to

35:17

be perceived as or what would

35:19

you like to stand for and

35:22

I not in a bad way

35:24

people want to know they were

35:26

there like let me help you

35:28

with this narrative because ultimately that's

35:31

ultimately that's PR person, a publicist,

35:33

it's public relations and it's how

35:35

you're relating to the public and

35:37

how they're going to perceive you.

35:40

And I think I didn't really

35:42

have an answer to that and

35:44

I was also playing this very

35:47

seemingly perfect, I quite literally, The

35:49

Girl Next Door and playing this

35:51

girl with Energy, I say that

35:53

because I'm chronically fatigued all the

35:56

time. Yeah, yeah. Seven years on

35:58

a series will do that. Well,

36:00

yeah, but I think just, to

36:02

me, I've, since I was

36:04

so young, have dealt with

36:07

anxiety and depression.

36:09

And then as I

36:11

got older, getting diagnosed

36:13

with 80D and then PTSD

36:15

and then OCD, it's like,

36:18

I mean, the list goes

36:20

on and I don't, I think.

36:22

I don't want to be someone

36:24

who talks about this chapter of

36:26

my life once it's over. I

36:29

don't think that really helps

36:31

people. And I think I'm in

36:33

it now. I've talked about this stuff

36:35

for a while now, so it's like,

36:37

might as well keep helping if

36:39

I can. And to be in the

36:42

position that I'm in now where

36:44

people may see, oh, look at

36:46

this great success you've had. And

36:48

I go, yes, but also. I'm

36:50

going to be real with you and

36:53

I'm not going to come back and

36:55

talk about how hard this chapter was

36:57

once it's over because first of all,

36:59

what if it's never over and

37:02

what if I continue to struggle

37:04

in the ways that I struggle

37:06

mentally, okay, so I don't want

37:08

to just put my authenticity or

37:11

openness about my life and my

37:13

experiences on hold until I feel

37:15

better. that's helping anyone. And

37:18

ultimately if I'm going to,

37:20

I don't want to say

37:22

suffer because that never feels

37:24

like the right word, but

37:27

struggle with challenges that

37:29

millions of other people

37:31

face, but I get the opportunity

37:33

to do it in a

37:35

more public sphere and maybe

37:37

in a way that people

37:40

really have call into question,

37:42

how do you feel that way?

37:44

And that was really difficult

37:46

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37:48

was stepping into the spotlight

37:50

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37:52

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37:54

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and then reflect on

40:23

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way suggests that you

40:27

need fixing. And you

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40:41

an answer to give people as

40:44

to how you came out of

40:46

it, best just keep your mouth

40:49

shut. And I'm the type of

40:51

person who thinks, well, to

40:53

me, it's helpful for me

40:56

to see someone. getting

40:58

a golden globe and

41:00

saying keep going don't

41:03

give up I'm like well

41:05

yeah because you're receiving

41:07

an award now and

41:09

it's like but how

41:11

did you feel when

41:13

yeah you had to

41:15

convince yourself to keep

41:18

going and I think

41:20

that's way more helpful

41:22

to someone like me

41:24

who I

41:27

find it inspiring when people

41:29

open up about their struggles

41:31

as they're happening and to

41:33

be able to know, wow,

41:35

this person's like really reflecting

41:37

on their life and being

41:40

open with the challenges that

41:42

they're facing now, not what

41:44

they were facing, which is

41:46

important, but ultimately, I think

41:48

it just helps you connect

41:51

to, this is a big word, but

41:53

humanity better because you're saying I'm

41:55

in it now. I'm struggling

41:58

now. Even if

42:00

I don't have an answer to

42:02

give you guys on what to

42:04

do or how I'm going to

42:06

get out of this, just to

42:08

let people know that I'm still

42:11

struggling with X, Y, Z,

42:13

I think sometimes is enough to

42:16

make people go, oh, okay, well,

42:18

maybe that makes me feel

42:20

better to know that someone

42:22

who I think maybe has

42:24

all these things and I would

42:26

be happy if I had all

42:28

these things. Because ultimately,

42:31

and this is the whole point,

42:33

is it's not what you have.

42:35

The most successful person in

42:37

the world, whoever you want

42:39

to think of that, what

42:42

success looks like, I'm pretty

42:44

100% positive that person

42:46

struggles. And whatever your

42:48

idea of success is,

42:50

someone who has that

42:53

struggles. So why do they struggle

42:55

when they have the

42:57

things? Because it's not.

42:59

about externally having things.

43:02

It's I could get

43:04

and I've realized this

43:06

I could get everything

43:08

I'm looking for in

43:10

my career because career

43:13

is a big hard

43:15

stress thing for me and

43:17

I could say okay I

43:19

could get the thing that

43:21

I'm looking for but if

43:23

I got if I got that

43:26

thing tomorrow I don't

43:28

think I would be happy still.

43:30

Like I don't think it would

43:32

just solve every problem because

43:35

ultimately the issue is successful

43:37

person in the world, whoever

43:40

you want to think of

43:42

that, what success looks

43:44

like, I'm pretty 100% positive

43:47

that person struggles. Yeah. And

43:49

whatever your idea of success

43:52

is, someone who has that.

43:54

struggles. So why do

43:56

they struggle when they have the

43:58

things? Because it's not... about externally

44:01

having things. It's, I could

44:03

get, and I've realized this,

44:05

I could get everything I'm

44:08

looking for in my career,

44:10

because career is a big,

44:12

hard stress thing for me.

44:14

And I could say, okay,

44:17

I could get the thing

44:19

that I'm looking for. But

44:21

if I got that thing

44:24

tomorrow, I. don't think I

44:26

would be happy still, like

44:28

I don't think it would

44:30

just solve every problem because

44:33

ultimately the issue is internally

44:35

what I'm going through. So

44:37

giving someone an award, I'm

44:40

just using awards as an

44:42

example because it's like the

44:44

most clear view of Here's

44:46

success. I'm handy. You've arrived.

44:49

And it's a trophy. It's

44:51

like a literal trophy of

44:53

success. And I think a

44:56

lot of people view that

44:58

as success. So that's sort

45:00

of what I'm coming from.

45:03

But I think, yeah, I

45:05

guess my whole point is

45:07

I need to deal with.

45:09

what's going on on the

45:12

inside that's making me unable

45:14

to be happy with the

45:16

success that I have now,

45:19

because ultimately, even if I

45:21

do keep climbing this ladder

45:23

and reaching more success, I

45:25

won't be able, I'll still

45:28

just want to keep climbing

45:30

the ladder and wanting the

45:32

war. So when is it

45:35

enough? And you have to

45:37

be able to receive, and

45:39

receiving something is challenging. Yeah.

45:41

Because I feel, again, it's

45:44

like an external, usually an

45:46

external accolade or an achievement

45:48

or something externally validating, but

45:51

ultimately, your insides have to

45:53

match up with that frequency

45:55

of validation. And if inside

45:58

your... going, oh, I don't

46:00

deserve this, oh, I can

46:02

do better, or whatever,

46:04

whatever. It's not going to

46:07

land. And you're not going

46:09

to be able to accept

46:11

it. And I want to be

46:13

in a position where any

46:15

amount of success could come my

46:17

way, and I can go, oh, I'm

46:20

happy with this, and I can receive

46:22

this because I'm resolute

46:24

in my inner work,

46:26

I love that. I

46:28

think it's really important,

46:30

particularly, as you said, in

46:33

a career and in an

46:35

ecosystem inclusive of

46:37

the world of social

46:39

media and the business

46:41

of entertainment. It's so

46:44

important to figure out how

46:46

to like your life instead

46:48

of be constantly worried

46:50

about what you're not

46:53

doing. And it's not easy,

46:55

but to get. to get to

46:57

a point where you realize that

46:59

that is part of the work.

47:01

Yeah. I think enables you to

47:03

begin to widen your periphery and

47:06

and have a healthier

47:08

experience with your life in general.

47:10

Well, so yeah, so like I'm

47:12

saying this all now having not

47:14

reached that point. Yeah, oh, I'm

47:16

not either, by the way. So yeah,

47:18

but I, but that's important to,

47:20

yeah, to, to emphasize because

47:23

I don't. I don't have

47:25

the answer and I haven't

47:27

and I'm working on it.

47:29

You could say I'm a

47:31

work in progress. Hey. But

47:33

ultimately I don't have the

47:35

answer and I think it's

47:37

something that is a journey.

47:39

They say life is a

47:41

journey and apparently it is

47:43

because you're just constantly evolving

47:45

as you should be. And I

47:47

don't think this. feeling

47:49

that I'm striving for this sort

47:51

of, I guess you'd call it

47:54

inner peace or the ability to

47:56

receive or the ability to

47:58

see my success. as enough.

48:00

I don't have that yet

48:02

and I am working on

48:04

it and I'm sure I'll

48:06

be working on it until

48:09

the day I die. And

48:11

but at least if I

48:13

can keep chipping away at

48:15

it and keep climbing that

48:17

ladder of achieving that feeling,

48:19

that's what's important. I don't

48:21

have to, you could tell

48:23

me you'll never fully get

48:25

there. I'll go, okay, well

48:27

that sucks, but at least

48:29

I'll know that forever I

48:32

will be trying to feel

48:34

that peace with my... self.

48:36

And then you know that

48:38

you're spending a certain amount

48:40

of time practicing gratitude, being

48:42

introspective, being willing to self

48:44

interrogate. You're not just packmanning

48:46

around the world. You're really,

48:48

you're in the emotional kind

48:50

of fiber of it. And

48:53

that I think is is

48:55

a really noble pursuit, you

48:57

know, for ourselves, but also

48:59

for the kind of imprint

49:01

you want to leave on

49:03

the world around you? Well,

49:05

to me, my thought is,

49:07

isn't that the whole point?

49:09

I think so. Because I

49:11

think the whole point, and

49:13

for me, is this is

49:16

a soul's journey. It's not

49:18

our body's journey. And to

49:20

me, I'm like, I'm on

49:22

this lifetime to level up.

49:24

I want to become more

49:26

conscious and raise my consciousness

49:28

and be aware and be

49:30

someone that people can look

49:32

up to as a mentor

49:34

and I want to be

49:37

like the old wise grandmother.

49:39

I want that and I

49:41

think so in order to

49:43

achieve that I've got to

49:45

keep going this work and

49:47

I plan on it and

49:49

to me that's so much

49:51

more That's so much more

49:53

of a successful life if

49:55

I can focus on the

49:57

internal things than anything external

50:00

that also temporary and fleeting

50:02

and ultimately whatever

50:04

you believe if you believe and

50:06

I still don't necessarily know what

50:08

I believe but if I think

50:10

that my soul is going to

50:13

continue on into another lifetime that

50:15

I'll have like as I say leveled up

50:17

in a way and I can enter

50:19

this next life with a even higher

50:22

consciousness and then do even more and

50:24

again I don't know I'm still figuring

50:26

out what I believe so far as

50:29

reincarnation is a

50:31

scary word and I don't know if

50:33

I like that word but it's more

50:35

so I think I like the idea

50:37

that your soul is kind of

50:40

just on this forever journey that

50:42

even when you aren't here

50:44

anymore when your body

50:46

isn't here your consciousness

50:48

keeps going yeah and I have

50:51

a book for you I'm gonna I'm going

50:53

to send you a book as a phone. What

50:55

is it? What is it? I'll offline you about

50:57

it, but yeah, I've got to send it to

50:59

you. I'm a big, I'm a big self-help book

51:01

person, spirituality book person. What

51:03

excites me about it is it's, because

51:06

when you said that, you know, the word feels

51:08

scary, I'm like, I get it. It's

51:10

why sometimes when the emotion feels big

51:12

for me, I need to lean into

51:14

the data or the data or the

51:16

science. Yeah. And I think, you know,

51:18

just some of the laws of physics,

51:20

you know, energy once created can never

51:22

be destroyed. So I can lean on

51:24

the scientific idea and this book is

51:27

a sort of merger of scientific research

51:29

and spiritual theory and it's very good.

51:31

I'm going to send it to you

51:33

and I'm excited about it. I love

51:36

spirituality books and all that stuff. So

51:38

I'm very into it. Yeah. I just

51:40

love the, I love learning about us.

51:43

And I. It might seem like a

51:45

weird left turn, but I'm thinking

51:47

about it because of the way that

51:49

you want to pursue meaning. And

51:51

you've talked about mental health

51:54

certainly, and you've also talked

51:56

about the pressure that comes

51:58

for women. but really all,

52:01

I think all young people because

52:03

of social media and then the

52:05

expectations particularly that get put on

52:08

us when we're on camera. You

52:10

know, you've spoken about body dysmorphia,

52:12

you've spoken about acne, and now

52:15

you've founded a skin care line.

52:17

And I actually feel, and I

52:20

guess this is my question, it

52:22

feels to me like you are

52:24

figuring out a way. not just

52:27

to like do a beauty product,

52:29

but to really lean into this

52:31

space of personal identity and self-acceptance

52:34

that you struggle with. It feels

52:36

to me like you've thought to

52:39

yourself, I really struggle with this

52:41

and I know so many other

52:43

young women struggle with this and

52:46

other young people struggle with this

52:48

and maybe if I solve a

52:50

problem for myself, I can help

52:53

other people solve a problem for

52:55

them. dead on, I think, with

52:58

that analysis. Because I, when I'm

53:00

struggling with something, and I think

53:02

this is where, to be honest,

53:05

the openness about my mental health

53:07

started was when I'm struggling with

53:09

something, I need to share that,

53:12

because then that's how I connect

53:14

with people and that's how I

53:17

feel seen. Well, and you feel

53:19

less alone, right? Yeah, of course.

53:21

And I think ultimately when you're

53:24

struggling, you just... want to feel

53:26

less alone. That's why we see

53:28

a therapist to be like, tell

53:31

me I'm not alone. And they're

53:33

like, I see plenty. Yeah, it's

53:36

like, you're not alone ever. But

53:38

I think I started sharing because

53:40

I was struggling with acne and

53:43

my body image and my depression

53:45

and my anxiety. And then I

53:47

just was received a lot of

53:50

encouragement when I did that, which

53:52

is. amazing

53:54

and sort of encouraged me to

53:57

just keep being open book at

53:59

least when it comes to these

54:01

facets of my life. So I

54:03

was just pretty, I mean, again,

54:06

you, I also had people telling

54:08

me you don't have a right

54:10

to feel anxiety, which is the

54:13

craziest thing I've ever heard. Or

54:15

that I don't have a, the

54:17

body image thing was hard in

54:20

telling, you know, people telling me

54:22

I don't have a right to

54:24

feel a certain way about my

54:26

body because I look a certain

54:29

way. It's I understand, but ultimately

54:31

this is where I think you

54:33

steps in and you have no

54:36

idea how someone looks at themselves

54:38

and I've seen, I'm sure you've

54:40

seen some of the most beautiful

54:42

people in the world have the

54:45

biggest self-esteem issues. Yes. And so

54:47

ultimately, you just have no idea

54:49

what you think is an ideal

54:52

beauty, someone has that and they

54:54

aren't happy with it. Yeah. And

54:56

for acne in particular, I stepped

54:59

into this space where you're not

55:01

supposed to have that. And people

55:03

around me didn't really have it.

55:05

Of course, always like the guys

55:08

always have both skin and it's

55:10

annoying. But the women, you know,

55:12

we're dealing with hormonal acne and

55:15

the way more makeup and all

55:17

these things. And I have had

55:19

acne just since I was 12

55:22

and 13. It was like manage

55:24

a black knee and then as

55:26

I but even when I would

55:28

always get this reoccurring cyst in

55:31

the middle of my forehead which

55:33

is like this bitch is back

55:35

again and and I remember really

55:38

hating that my school didn't let

55:40

us wear hats because I thought

55:42

to myself, if only I could

55:45

wear a beanie and pull this

55:47

down over my forehead so no

55:49

one would see this. Or if

55:51

we just turned these fluorescent awful

55:54

lights off, maybe no one would

55:56

notice this crater on my forehead.

55:58

And so just I'm very familiar

56:01

with the feeling of acne

56:03

in everyday life and what

56:05

it can do to you

56:07

mentally, but then I've also

56:10

experienced the exacerbated version when

56:12

I'm literally in front of

56:14

a camera with said acne

56:16

on my face and people

56:19

are literally staring at a

56:21

screen watching me and the

56:23

paranoia around that and I

56:25

think I felt really called

56:27

to, because again, I'm like,

56:29

everything kind of stems from

56:31

me wanting to, it's not

56:33

selfish by any means, but

56:35

I'm like, ultimately, I'm trying

56:38

to help myself still as well,

56:40

by doing this, by helping

56:42

other people so we can

56:44

all collectively feel better, because I

56:46

want to feel better too. I

56:49

still have acne and I want

56:51

these products that are not going

56:53

to trigger my acne. So I

56:55

know that. people who have the

56:57

same issues as I do want

56:59

that as well, but also important

57:01

to know that even people who

57:03

don't have acne and don't deal

57:05

with this, you want good quality

57:08

skincare that's not irritating you, causing

57:10

any damage that maybe you're

57:12

not superficially seeing. You want

57:14

things that aren't stuffed with

57:17

bad filler ingredients. Yeah. That's

57:19

also... not going to be

57:21

$100. I just think I'm, you

57:24

know, we get sent PR boxes

57:26

of crap and I in the

57:28

beginning of my career was like,

57:30

oh hell yeah, I'm being sent

57:32

skincare line after skincare

57:35

line, I'm going to put

57:37

this on my face and

57:39

I absolutely destroyed my skin.

57:42

Yeah. Because I was just

57:44

trying everything and I think ultimately

57:47

I wanted to create

57:49

a line. for anyone, but

57:51

for with acne-prone and sensitive

57:53

skin people in mind, that they

57:56

could trust, they could fully trust

57:58

a skincare line that wasn't going

58:00

to make things worse. Yes.

58:02

And to be a safe

58:05

haven, if you will, and

58:07

to know that I can

58:09

top to bottom, go to

58:11

this personal day line, and

58:13

know that if I purchase

58:15

something, it's going to be

58:17

free of these bad ingredients.

58:20

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housing opportunity. I

1:01:16

think people often forget. We're

1:01:18

so pressured to have our skin

1:01:20

look a certain way that

1:01:22

we forget that our skin is

1:01:24

our body's largest organ. You

1:01:26

know, would you be like dumping

1:01:28

chemical agents on top of

1:01:30

your liver all day? No, so

1:01:32

you don't wanna do it

1:01:34

with your skin either. And I

1:01:36

think it's very cool that

1:01:39

you lasered in on an area

1:01:41

of personal struggle, understood

1:01:43

the larger struggle of

1:01:45

that area for so

1:01:48

many people, and then

1:01:50

said, I think I

1:01:52

can help fix this

1:01:54

and maybe do it

1:01:57

more holistically and more

1:01:59

kindly and... some of the other

1:02:01

folks out there are doing it and I

1:02:04

think it's very very cool. Thank you. I

1:02:06

think ultimately I, what's, I don't,

1:02:08

at the end of the day, this

1:02:10

job, as much as people would

1:02:12

like to tell me that I

1:02:14

don't have a right to say

1:02:17

is stressful, is incredibly stressful and

1:02:19

hard. And unless you're in that

1:02:21

position, you can't make that

1:02:24

judgment. You just can't. If

1:02:27

I'm going to be in a

1:02:29

career, that's very stressful, if

1:02:31

I have the privilege and

1:02:33

opportunity to help other people,

1:02:35

absolutely, and I never ever wanted

1:02:37

to put my face or name

1:02:39

on something, my name isn't even

1:02:42

on the brand that I created,

1:02:44

intentionally, because I, if people are

1:02:46

saying, hey, do you want? to

1:02:48

create something. I'm going to go,

1:02:50

okay, well, it has to help

1:02:52

people. And also, I would love

1:02:54

for people to not even know

1:02:56

that I'm attached to it, because

1:02:59

that's how effective the products need

1:03:01

to be. Yes. Because I can't,

1:03:03

I mean, it would be very

1:03:05

embarrassing to make products that

1:03:07

made people skin worse or

1:03:09

caused reactions and it's been.

1:03:11

Every day I'm receiving a text

1:03:14

message now because the line's been

1:03:16

out since the end of October.

1:03:18

People who have been using the

1:03:21

line for a month now who

1:03:23

are texting me going, I'm getting

1:03:25

complimented on my skin for

1:03:28

the first time in my life. And

1:03:30

that is, I just think, okay,

1:03:32

that's why I'm doing this because

1:03:34

I, not for truly any other

1:03:36

reason, then I also wanted

1:03:39

this line of like safe.

1:03:41

skincare, but to help other people

1:03:43

in the process, that has been

1:03:45

the most fulfilling. It

1:03:47

really is like to receive a

1:03:50

text message from people saying,

1:03:52

my skin is changing because

1:03:55

of these products. I just

1:03:57

know and deeply empathize with

1:03:59

how bad a breakout can

1:04:01

make you feel and to feel

1:04:04

that something is in the world

1:04:06

now that people are, it's positively

1:04:08

impacting the way that they're viewing

1:04:10

their face when they wake up

1:04:13

in the morning, is ultimately very

1:04:15

good for my soul, I think.

1:04:17

I feel very warm about it.

1:04:19

Which is like, that's the goal.

1:04:22

Yeah, absolutely. It makes me think

1:04:24

about. And I don't even remember

1:04:26

where I said it. I feel

1:04:28

like you always have your best

1:04:31

moment of brilliance when you're not

1:04:33

paying attention to yourself. And at

1:04:35

some point, I was talking about

1:04:38

advice I wanted to give to

1:04:40

my younger self. And I said

1:04:42

that I wanted to say to

1:04:44

her, you are allowed to be

1:04:47

a masterpiece and a work in

1:04:49

progress simultaneously. And I think what

1:04:51

you're talking about is exactly that

1:04:53

kind of energy where you are

1:04:56

trying to be your best self

1:04:58

and also make room for the.

1:05:00

the process of being a human

1:05:02

at the same time. You want

1:05:05

to have gratitude for everything you've

1:05:07

done and still have goals. You

1:05:09

want to be able to relish

1:05:11

in where you are today and

1:05:14

still dream about your future. You

1:05:16

know, it's a, the tension of

1:05:18

the both hand, I think when

1:05:21

you lean into it and choose

1:05:23

to be introspective, can be so

1:05:25

beautiful. Yeah, and it takes the

1:05:27

pressure off I think yeah to

1:05:30

remind yourself that you are and

1:05:32

ever evolve in person yes you

1:05:34

which is a phrase that I

1:05:36

really like and knowing that there's

1:05:39

space for everyone to have that

1:05:41

and I think we're just in

1:05:43

this industry that hammers into you

1:05:45

this competition and if you're not

1:05:48

at this certain peak of your

1:05:50

success by this certain time that

1:05:52

you've missed the boat or that,

1:05:55

I think that something that a

1:05:57

lot of people can relate to

1:05:59

is... obviously, you're watching everyone's lives

1:06:01

on social media. And so you're

1:06:04

comparing yourself to people who have

1:06:06

what you want. And if you're

1:06:08

not seeing yourself getting it any

1:06:10

time soon, or if you feel

1:06:13

that, oh, that's so far away

1:06:15

for me, or or I'll never

1:06:17

achieve that, I think the comparison,

1:06:19

if you took away, if you

1:06:22

sat with yourself and took away

1:06:24

everybody else's success and sat with

1:06:26

your own, and we're able to

1:06:29

focus on. how far you've come

1:06:31

and what you've achieved without measuring

1:06:33

it against other people. Yes. I

1:06:35

think your satisfaction would be exponentially

1:06:38

higher. Yes. And so giving myself

1:06:40

grace because I know that I'm

1:06:42

literally living in a world that

1:06:44

tells me to compare myself to

1:06:47

every person that I see. All

1:06:49

the time and that's horrible. Yes.

1:06:51

Like it's like just remind yourself

1:06:53

of that. That's kind of what

1:06:56

you need. That's just what you

1:06:58

need. Give yourself the grace of

1:07:00

knowing that that is the world

1:07:02

that you're in. And so it's

1:07:05

understandable that you feel these things.

1:07:07

And I think I've had to

1:07:09

just give myself a break and

1:07:12

say, like, we get it. Yeah,

1:07:14

I get it. I can look

1:07:16

at my problems and go, yeah,

1:07:18

it makes sense why I feel

1:07:21

that way. Yep. And then going,

1:07:23

okay, well, let's try to eliminate

1:07:25

them. the factors

1:07:27

of maybe let's be on social

1:07:30

media less. Yeah. Maybe let's remind

1:07:32

ourselves of this phrase like everyone

1:07:34

has room to have their flowers.

1:07:36

Let people have that. Let people

1:07:39

have their thing and don't be

1:07:41

angry or jealous or covet what

1:07:43

other people have. Yeah. No one

1:07:46

is taking away what you could

1:07:48

have by getting what they have.

1:07:50

No one's taking anything away from

1:07:53

you. Exactly. And there's room for

1:07:55

all of us. It's a big

1:07:57

planet, it's a big world. Yep.

1:07:59

there's room for us all. And

1:08:02

I think that to me is a

1:08:04

big thing that's in the last

1:08:06

half of this year I've been

1:08:09

landing on. And so I will

1:08:11

be carrying that with me into

1:08:13

2025. I love that. I think

1:08:15

that's really wonderful. Thanks.

1:08:18

We'll see. I also I kind

1:08:20

of think that this making

1:08:22

space for that truth and

1:08:24

realizing that the

1:08:26

narrative that there isn't enough.

1:08:29

the idea that scarcity is

1:08:31

somehow our destiny as humans.

1:08:33

I just think that's one

1:08:35

of those lies the patriarchy

1:08:38

tells us. So when we

1:08:40

are trying to create a

1:08:42

more holistic human experience and

1:08:44

lean, particularly I think into

1:08:47

generational wisdom, the generational wisdom

1:08:49

of women. It's like, oh, we're

1:08:51

not doing the scarcity thing that

1:08:53

those guys in power told us.

1:08:55

Well, it's the phrase, you're too

1:08:57

much as a woman. No, ma'am.

1:08:59

We're not doing that. That doesn't

1:09:01

exist. That's not a thing. It's

1:09:03

someone years ago, when I was,

1:09:05

we were into the sort of

1:09:08

real throws of our of our

1:09:10

first big show, said to me,

1:09:12

you need to take any person

1:09:14

who's ever said to you,

1:09:16

you're intimidating. Say, no,

1:09:19

you're just intimidated. And I

1:09:21

was like, oh. It makes me feel

1:09:23

so strong and powerful. So it's all

1:09:25

all those lessons, I think, that we

1:09:27

can glean and, you know, take with

1:09:29

us as we start figuring out how

1:09:31

to be these more human, more

1:09:34

empathetic people are wonderful. That's a

1:09:36

great thing. Whoever said that to

1:09:38

you. Right? It was a really

1:09:40

good one. I was like, oh,

1:09:42

tattoo it on my soul. It's

1:09:44

a perspective. It's just a perspective

1:09:46

shift. Like, there's nothing wrong with

1:09:48

you. Maybe there's nothing wrong with

1:09:50

you. Maybe that. Maybe that. Yeah.

1:09:52

Well, thank you so much for joining

1:09:55

me today. You're just a gem. Thank

1:09:57

you. Well, so are you and I.

1:09:59

I appreciate you offering up a

1:10:02

space in which people can

1:10:04

feel safe to talk about

1:10:06

the things that are not

1:10:08

easy. And I think it's

1:10:10

rare that people cultivate a

1:10:12

space that feels really safe

1:10:14

and warm and you do

1:10:16

that really so well and

1:10:18

I and I appreciate that

1:10:20

because sometimes I walk away

1:10:22

from podcast thinking oh this

1:10:24

is gonna hurt me in

1:10:26

some way like this is

1:10:28

gonna maybe backfire this is

1:10:31

gonna maybe backfire but I

1:10:33

just think definitely not the

1:10:35

case here so thank you

1:10:37

yeah to get to conversationally

1:10:39

break bread with people is

1:10:41

a supreme privilege. Yeah. Thanks

1:10:43

for coming. Well, you do

1:10:45

it. You do it well.

1:10:47

Yeah. Thank you for having

1:10:49

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1:11:58

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1:12:00

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1:12:02

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