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no impact on your credit score. Terms,

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terms apply. Hello,

5:41

how are you? I'm well, thanks.

5:43

How are you? I am doing

5:45

just fine things. Are you from

5:47

LA originally? I'm not. I'm from

5:49

Northern California. I'm from Oakland. I

5:52

was born and raised in Oakland.

5:54

I went to boarding school in

5:56

Utah, but I was raised in

5:58

the Bay Area, and then I

6:00

went to college. Portland moved to

6:02

New York, Chicago, LA. So that

6:05

was my winding major metropolitan city

6:07

road. I was in Portland when

6:09

my little sister who is two

6:11

and a half years younger than

6:13

me called me and said, you

6:15

know, there's a fun little television

6:18

show I think you should watch

6:20

and that's when I was introduced

6:22

Brooke introduced us your character introduced

6:24

us I guess is so my

6:26

first experience with you and your

6:29

work was was her and so

6:31

watching you there and seeing everything

6:33

that you have done and become

6:35

since then has really been it's

6:37

it's a I told Kendra that

6:39

I was going to do this

6:42

today and she was like oh

6:44

that's so cool that's so cool

6:46

life kind of comes in these

6:48

circles and so I think that

6:50

that's really a very cool thing

6:52

for me Oh, that's so neat.

6:55

Thank you so much for sharing

6:57

that. And hello to Kendra. I

6:59

love that nice little connection. Yeah.

7:01

I'm so curious, what was it

7:03

that made you want to go

7:06

into, I mean, journalism, first and

7:08

foremost, but sports journalism, because my

7:10

weird winding path. Yeah, we all

7:12

have a weird winding. I went

7:14

to school for theater and then

7:16

the theater department felt a little

7:19

restrictive for me and I wound

7:21

up. studying journalism alongside theater. And

7:23

that really, I think, activated me

7:25

as a storyteller, as an activist,

7:27

as a writer, you know, all

7:29

these things. And I can see

7:32

how it all connects now. And

7:34

I wonder for you, where did

7:36

the journalism passion come from? So

7:38

it's funny you say connects now

7:40

because I think the things that

7:42

I'm going to say about how

7:45

it connected are not what I

7:47

was thinking at all in the

7:49

moment. I went to boarding school

7:51

and I felt like I had

7:53

missed out on high school because

7:56

I went to and I'm talking

7:58

20 kids going to individualize schooling

8:00

where you go and you are

8:02

going to school in a classroom

8:04

and you work on your binder

8:06

and you flip through it and

8:09

you have to take three tests

8:11

a week to stay on track

8:13

and and that sort of was

8:15

the experience of what it was

8:17

and so when I got to

8:19

college I really I wanted to

8:22

do college I wanted to really

8:24

stop missing out and I was

8:26

someone who like deeply, deeply feared,

8:28

FOMO. I deeply feared missing out.

8:30

I deeply feared being different. And

8:33

now I kind of see all

8:35

of that is I was the

8:37

only black girl in my class

8:39

growing up except for Amina Lukman

8:41

and you know, the, the, education

8:43

that I have, I always sort

8:46

of felt like I didn't quite

8:48

fit in. But I, then for

8:50

me, it was just this drive

8:52

of, I want to go to

8:54

parties, I never went to prom,

8:56

I want to make friends because

8:59

all of the friends that I

9:01

had before I left for boarding

9:03

school, they didn't carry through with

9:05

me because I sort of just

9:07

disappeared one day and didn't come

9:09

back and that feels like the

9:12

end of the world when you're

9:14

14, 15, 16, 17 years old.

9:16

So I was, I went to

9:18

college, I went to college, I

9:20

think, I was really lucky that

9:23

I made a very good friend,

9:25

Claire Duffy, in my freshman stats

9:27

class that I was terrible at,

9:29

and she worked for the school

9:31

paper. I always love to write.

9:33

And that writing, though, was journaling

9:36

for me when I was in

9:38

high school, and I'm so glad

9:40

I did to be able to

9:42

sort of look back and see

9:44

what I was thinking at that

9:46

time, because it was so different

9:49

than what so many people in

9:51

our country how high school looks.

9:53

But I knew I wanted to

9:55

write. I knew I was good

9:57

at capturing feelings with written words

10:00

because I had the time to

10:02

go over them. probably the time

10:04

to perfect them a little bit

10:06

before I shared them with people.

10:08

But I had no idea what

10:10

I wanted that to be. I

10:13

just knew I was told I

10:15

was bad at math and so

10:17

I believed that and I felt

10:19

I was good at writing. And

10:21

so I kind of went with

10:23

that. And because I had a

10:26

friend who worked with the school

10:28

paper, that's sort of the direction

10:30

I went. And then at some

10:32

point, I don't know if this

10:34

makes any sense at all. but

10:36

if I was going to be

10:39

the odd one out anyway let

10:41

me be the person to decide

10:43

it and so in sports I

10:45

I was so used to being

10:47

the first and the only that

10:50

in that space I said well

10:52

at least I know I'm walking

10:54

to it into this as that

10:56

you know there's only one other

10:58

black woman covered in basketball in

11:00

the country and it was just

11:03

at the time when newsrooms were

11:05

starting to see that as a

11:07

problem. And it's like, well, this

11:09

thing that has been a problem

11:11

for me, you're telling me that

11:13

that's something that now people are

11:16

saying we need this. This is

11:18

an asset. I don't even know

11:20

if that makes sense. But that's

11:22

how I think about it now.

11:24

Wow. There's so much I relate

11:26

to in what you're saying. I

11:29

went to a all-girls school 55

11:31

girls in my graduating class. It's

11:33

why I wanted to go to

11:35

USC. And it was why in

11:37

a weird way, going and shooting

11:40

my show, was it was my

11:42

first high school experience. I'd never

11:44

had one. Yeah. And I know

11:46

how much in my bones, I

11:48

feel what you're saying, the intensity

11:50

of the fomo I had at

11:53

that stage at that age in

11:55

my life, all of it. And

11:57

I still just experienced that as

11:59

a, as a, girl who didn't

12:01

have what I thought was the

12:03

normal experience, I wasn't experiencing it

12:06

as the only black girl in

12:08

my class or my boarding school

12:10

or my, you know, like, I

12:12

know how hard it was for

12:14

me to get over that loneliness

12:17

and and I I was still

12:19

not as isolated in my identity

12:21

as you're explaining. So it's like,

12:23

I feel it so deeply I

12:25

could cry and I'm also like,

12:27

I know how hard it was

12:30

for me and it wasn't nearly

12:32

as hard for me as it

12:34

was for you. And my God,

12:36

like it's, it's, it's, it's, you

12:38

know, you're, you know, the loneliness

12:40

that you used to experience. It

12:43

was only recently that I started

12:45

to feel good about not even

12:47

wanting to be alone, but wanting

12:49

to do what I enjoy doing,

12:51

which isn't necessarily the hobbies that

12:53

are expected of me or the

12:56

things that are expected of me

12:58

and being okay with that, being

13:00

something. I'm like, what are your,

13:02

what are your quirky hobbies? I'm

13:04

dying to know. Horseback riding. I

13:07

have been an avid equestrian my

13:09

entire life and that's another space

13:11

where there's just not a lot

13:13

of people who look like me

13:15

that do it. And I've found

13:17

pockets, right? Like there's the Compton

13:20

cowboys here in Los Angeles that

13:22

are really, really cool and awesome

13:24

and I am not that awesome.

13:26

But horseback riding and skiing and

13:28

like that's what my family. did

13:30

and enjoyed doing, but I just

13:33

didn't see that as a, an

13:35

option to live out loud without

13:37

judgment, which sounds so silly. I

13:39

recognize like how silly that sounds,

13:41

but that's how it felt to

13:44

me, because that sport was reserved

13:46

for an affluence that my family

13:48

didn't have. My dad just so

13:50

happened to be a ski patrolman.

13:52

Like that it wasn't, it wasn't,

13:54

and There was assumptions that were

13:57

made based on that that I

13:59

didn't I didn't feel comfortable with

14:01

because I already felt so Different

14:03

and so I I think that

14:05

only very recently and still sometimes

14:07

I find myself asking, you know,

14:10

do people really want to know

14:12

this about you or just because

14:14

you don't host it? It doesn't

14:16

mean it's not something that is

14:18

a huge part of your life

14:20

and existence. You know, all of

14:23

this stuff. Of course. Absolutely. And

14:25

look, I think. And

14:27

we're all guilty of it, right?

14:30

We assume that because so much

14:32

is online, so much is in

14:34

our faces, that we know so

14:36

much and we know so little.

14:39

We have no idea what's going

14:41

on in people's lives. We have

14:43

no idea what people's days actually

14:45

look like. You know, we just

14:48

have no idea when I think

14:50

about how little the world really

14:52

knows versus how. Full and complex

14:54

and beautiful and tragic and all

14:57

of the things my life is

14:59

I know that's true for all

15:01

of us But I do think

15:03

it's so special when you When

15:06

you start to listen to what

15:08

your soul wants And you know

15:10

it's it's interesting you say that

15:12

because my my best friend has

15:15

been Getting back to a barn

15:17

that she rides at in Detroit

15:19

And it's something I really want

15:21

to get back to doing too.

15:24

And, you know, very similarly to

15:26

you, it comes with this sort

15:28

of assumption. And, you know, I

15:30

didn't grow up in like a

15:33

fancy riding world by any means,

15:35

but I grew up for a

15:37

portion of my life around horses.

15:39

And, you know, these sort of

15:42

like normalcy and the cowboy culture

15:44

is so great. Is something that,

15:46

you know, I think it's okay

15:48

to say I want to do

15:50

that more than I want to

15:53

do this other thing that everyone

15:55

wants to do. But I know

15:57

what it's like to want to

15:59

do the thing everyone's doing when

16:02

you haven't had... And I certainly

16:04

did. It was why I chose

16:06

such a big college. It was

16:08

why, you know, I think in

16:11

some ways I was able to

16:13

play a high school kid when

16:15

I would have been graduating college

16:17

because I was that naive because

16:20

I'd never had the experience. Right.

16:22

You know, and you're tapping into

16:24

that thing. And I still, you

16:26

know, honestly, up until maybe in

16:29

the last five. to seven years

16:31

when people asked me, where did

16:33

you go to high school? I

16:35

had to fight the instinct to

16:38

want to lie because it's something

16:40

that's very basic, you know, you

16:42

said, where did you, where did

16:44

you grow up? I grew up

16:47

in Oakland. Oh, I grew up

16:49

in the barrier to where did

16:51

you go to high school? It's

16:53

the natural next question that somebody

16:56

else looking for community, to bond

16:58

over. And for me, that opened

17:00

up. a whole new chapter of

17:02

my life that I wasn't always

17:05

sure how I felt about. And

17:07

when I talk about college, sometimes

17:09

even I went to the University

17:11

of Portland, I went to the

17:14

University, why did you choose the

17:16

University of Portland? I went to

17:18

the University of Portland because I

17:20

had class sizes of six people

17:23

and I hadn't taken the SATs.

17:25

And so coming off of that

17:27

experience, small class sizes and something

17:29

that felt like I could re

17:32

assimilate and take height sizes of

17:34

was really important. And when I

17:36

went to the university, it was

17:38

beautiful and the professors were interesting

17:41

and all of those things existed,

17:43

but I didn't even allow myself

17:45

to think about what a bigger

17:47

school could look like because I

17:50

was scared that I was going

17:52

to be outed as someone who

17:54

didn't come through the same path

17:56

as everybody else and therefore I

17:59

was weird. And the last thing

18:01

I wanted after being different for

18:03

so long was to be the

18:05

weird girl. And so that sort

18:08

of narrowed my focus very very

18:10

quickly and I am So glad

18:12

that I went to UP and

18:14

that I joined the school paper

18:17

and that I became a sports

18:19

writer and I love what I

18:21

do. But it's interesting the stories

18:23

we tell ourselves and we've repeated

18:26

so very often about our our

18:28

journey sort of just become your

18:30

go-to truth. And every once in

18:32

a while, sometimes you have to

18:35

pause and maybe re-examine. Are those

18:37

the stories that have just been

18:39

coming out for so long or

18:41

is there something else there and

18:44

for me it's probably a little

18:46

bit about. Well and not a

18:48

lot of people choose their university

18:50

perhaps because they're healing from something.

18:53

That's true. But you're talking about

18:55

your healing journey and I think

18:57

one of the things that doesn't

18:59

get talked about a lot is

19:02

that healing can also be really

19:04

painful. And It's important and it's

19:06

beautiful. I mean my God I've

19:08

been through such a period of

19:11

this in the last couple of

19:13

years in my own life and

19:15

you know I'm 40 like I'm

19:17

in my 40s I'm an adult

19:20

and I'm still working on things

19:22

and I think when you when

19:24

you find yourself wanting to maybe

19:26

tell that bigger truth to say

19:29

the things oh these these things

19:31

I was processing at the time

19:33

were influencing my decision I think

19:35

that's kind of a mark. of

19:38

healing. I think that's a mark

19:40

of like self-acceptance and a kindness

19:42

to yourself. And how special that

19:44

this thing that you were working

19:47

on processing, not wanting to feel

19:49

weird, not wanting to, you know,

19:51

jump into too big of a

19:53

pool at the time, is exactly

19:56

what led you to find your

19:58

voice and find your writing and

20:00

find sport and find all these

20:02

things. Like the thing that you

20:05

that you that you might have

20:07

looked at as a self-protective decision.

20:09

actually opened the doors to your

20:11

whole life in a way. So

20:14

how cool. The beautiful trips of

20:16

life, right? Like that's sort of

20:18

how these things, when you're lucky,

20:20

and I am so very lucky,

20:23

you know. That's one of the

20:25

things that I get to have

20:27

happen. Yeah. And now a word

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Well, and it's crazy too to

22:36

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22:38

and then think about where you

22:40

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22:43

of accolades that we can read

22:45

that, you know, we do in

22:47

the intro for every guest who

22:49

comes on the show. And it's

22:51

like, I think about what I'm

22:53

learning about you as a person

22:56

and then also the fact that

22:58

you're a literal history maker. I

23:00

mean, you're the first woman who's

23:02

ever hosted the NBA draft. If

23:04

I know anything about women, you

23:06

know, knocking down doors and breaking

23:09

glass ceilings, it's that no one's

23:11

trying to give us any power.

23:13

It's always something we have to

23:15

fight for. It's always something we

23:17

have to, you know, be twice

23:20

as good as the men to

23:22

get. And yet you managed to

23:24

do it. You cracked it. How

23:26

as the sports journalist you are

23:28

today, how did you overcome? whatever

23:30

obstacles were like laid in the

23:33

minefield in front of you to

23:35

to get there what was it

23:37

like to find out that you

23:39

were going to do this because

23:41

this was just in 2022 you

23:43

know it's like it's essentially yesterday

23:46

yeah it's it's funny how time

23:48

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23:50

I stood on the shoulders of

23:52

the women who came before me

23:54

I mean truly that there's I

23:57

find that no one is able

23:59

to history. is long and it's

24:01

winding and no one makes it

24:03

alone. You may be the one

24:05

who is the person who is

24:07

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24:10

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24:12

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24:14

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24:16

finals and was already on that

24:18

trajectory. It's because of all of.

24:20

the women who had put in

24:23

that work that I was then

24:25

able to sort of be the

24:27

beneficiary of. It's also working really

24:29

hard and being good and I

24:31

think that it sometimes amazes me

24:34

the ease in which I love

24:36

when a player tells me like

24:38

they're the best. I'm the best

24:40

at what I do because it

24:42

comes out with such an ease

24:44

that I actually like I genuinely

24:47

that's admirable that oftentimes that oftentimes

24:49

the in the sports world, like

24:51

saying out loud, well, because I'm

24:53

the best and I expect the

24:55

best of me, that's something that

24:58

I don't do and we as

25:00

women are not conditioned to do.

25:02

But sports is, sports is about

25:04

beating your chest and sports is

25:06

about who is the best and

25:08

there are winners and there are

25:11

losers and that may make some

25:13

people uncomfortable. And so I always

25:15

admire when there's an ease in

25:17

which athletes say that. Now there's

25:19

a conversation to be had about

25:21

when women athletes say that, you

25:24

know, what the response has been,

25:26

which is stilly. But I think

25:28

that that's it. It's like, you

25:30

don't, you don't do these things

25:32

alone. But what was it like?

25:35

It was really cool. I was

25:37

proud of myself. You know, I

25:39

think that being able to put

25:41

my messes into a meat package

25:43

that I could put a bow

25:45

on and say, here, look what

25:48

I did. That felt really good

25:50

and to my perfectionist self who

25:52

needs a reason for everything for

25:54

so many years, right, when I

25:56

was going through stuff. And by

25:58

the way, this isn't, I've said

26:01

this before, this isn't like a

26:03

before and after story. Sure. Tough

26:05

days, you know, now I think

26:07

we all do. But I was

26:09

asked so many times, what's wrong?

26:12

And I didn't have an answer

26:14

a lot of the time. It

26:16

was just like, I just feel

26:18

this thing that's too big to

26:20

put a name on. to be

26:22

able to have a name to

26:25

all of it, right, to put

26:27

it in a neat package of,

26:29

well, I went to boarding school

26:31

and I overcame these things and

26:33

here I am doing this, for

26:35

someone who needs things to be

26:38

neat and needs things to come

26:40

out right and to do the

26:42

right thing, that in itself felt

26:44

a little bit like a bomb

26:46

that then allowed me to go

26:49

back and re-explore some things that

26:51

I hadn't already. Wow, that's really

26:53

cool. So it's interesting because I

26:55

mean you're talking about processing in

26:57

real time How certain achievements in

26:59

your career allow you to go

27:02

back and kind of reshift how

27:04

things feel In your life and

27:06

in your past which again speaks

27:08

to me on such a deep

27:10

level where I go. Oh now

27:12

I get that right I get

27:15

that phase I get what I

27:17

put up with at that time

27:19

I get what I was seeking

27:21

at that time whatever it might

27:23

have been You know There

27:26

is such an added layer

27:28

of pressure in any version

27:30

of a public career. So

27:33

as you're processing your very

27:35

personal life, you're also doing

27:37

it publicly as an on-air

27:40

personality, how do you handle

27:42

the pressure that comes with

27:44

the forward-facing parts of the

27:46

job? while you're both moving

27:49

up the ranks in your

27:51

career and also like reaching

27:53

back for these past versions

27:56

of yourself that you're... you

27:58

know, re-parenting, re-caring for, re-experiencing

28:00

with, like, how do you,

28:03

how do you handle all

28:05

of that? Some days I

28:07

don't. But- Cool, me neither,

28:09

glad it's not just me.

28:12

Right, like, yeah, like some

28:14

days I don't, but no,

28:16

I think that for me,

28:19

it's, um, I have

28:21

therapy at 7 o'clock every Monday

28:23

and it's a little bit late

28:26

and I always feel like I

28:28

need but I need to make

28:30

sure that I can fit it

28:32

in. I don't, I don't have

28:35

a neat answer to this. I'm

28:37

like searching for the way to

28:39

describe this and the best that

28:42

I can do it is saying

28:44

that every day it's kind of

28:46

looks a little bit different. I'm

28:49

in a really good stretch right

28:51

now. I feel really lucky to

28:53

get that do the job that

28:56

I do with the people that

28:58

I do it, particularly with everything

29:00

going on in Los Angeles right

29:02

now. Anytime something like that happens,

29:05

it sort of recenters you on

29:07

what's important. I have the most

29:09

incredible support system of workwives, of

29:12

best friends, of the sweetest, kindest,

29:14

funniest. Don't tell them I said

29:16

that most supportive husband in the

29:19

entire world. And like I have

29:21

this army of people that I

29:23

can turn to that when I

29:26

don't feel like I can they

29:28

remind me how. Yeah. And that

29:30

looks a little different every day.

29:32

But finding those places in between

29:35

I am I'm not the hour

29:37

that I spend on TV every

29:39

day. I'm sure like I'm curious

29:42

how this is for you because

29:44

when people have a not only

29:46

a perception of you, but also

29:49

perceptions of a character you play,

29:51

or maybe they don't even know

29:53

you or they call you the

29:56

name of somebody that you portrayed.

29:58

How do you decide? I've been

30:00

put into this box. I want

30:02

to let people know me because I

30:05

think I'm liking who I've become,

30:07

but I'm almost afraid to

30:09

put that version out because

30:11

what if other people don't

30:13

like it? Yeah. And I

30:15

think that that's something that

30:17

everybody sort of even more in

30:19

like a social media world has

30:22

to contend with and that's sort

30:24

of what I've, I've, asked myself really

30:26

hard questions. I've looked at the mistakes

30:29

that I've made. I try to be

30:31

better. Not all of that work is

30:33

out loud, but it is loud in

30:36

my own head and the space that

30:38

I kind of take up. and giving

30:40

yourself permission to make those mistakes to

30:43

get back up to have a bad

30:45

day to come back better to say

30:47

I'm sorry to say you know what

30:50

I did pretty good like all of

30:52

those things are a radical act of

30:54

self-love that I didn't have in my

30:57

toolbox even a couple of years ago

30:59

and I think yes the thing about

31:01

having to look at yourself for

31:04

me having to look at myself

31:06

so intensely at such a young

31:08

age going to therapeutic boarding school,

31:10

not just any boarding school, but

31:12

being in sort of this group

31:15

therapy environment. I wondered if I was the

31:17

best version I could be. I did so

31:19

much work on myself and yet all of

31:21

these things I still would like to improve.

31:23

But maybe I just am, this is as good

31:25

as I'm going to get because I did

31:27

all this work and I had to retune

31:30

that to say, well, just because you worked

31:32

really hard in like an intense environment for

31:34

a concentrated amount of time, doesn't mean you

31:36

don't deserve to get to go back and

31:39

do it again. But I was afraid going

31:41

back meant that I wouldn't be able to

31:43

have normalcy. So I don't even know if

31:45

I answered your question, but that's the pinball

31:47

machine that sort of is my brain when

31:49

I'm trying to figure all of this out.

31:51

No, I totally get that. And then not

31:54

trip when I do it, because if you

31:56

trip, people say, ha ha, you tripped. Oh,

31:58

yeah. They're waiting for you to trip. not

32:00

to be the person. And I'm

32:02

trying to not be the person

32:04

when somebody trips to say ha

32:07

ha. Like, you know, I think

32:09

it's really important. And look, I

32:11

think anyone who's been through anything

32:13

knows what it is to keep

32:16

up appearances while you're trying to

32:18

figure out your life. I think

32:20

one of the greatest sort of

32:22

moments for me of coming to

32:25

terms with trying to do everything

32:27

right and being so unhappy. was

32:29

not only having the wherewithal to

32:31

admit that to myself, but really

32:34

I think I was saved, as

32:36

you said, by my community of

32:38

women, because as it was happening

32:40

to me, it was happening to

32:43

a bunch of friends around me.

32:45

And when I realized we were

32:47

all in versions of the same

32:49

boat and we were all in

32:52

similar pain and we all had

32:54

made it look so good and

32:56

it wasn't. In a weird way

32:59

it gave me permission, like when

33:01

my best friend called me, you

33:03

know, my best friend who is

33:05

my sister, she is my family,

33:08

her son is my godson, like

33:10

she is my person. And when

33:12

she was like, I can't do

33:14

this life I built anymore, and

33:17

I was like, I can't either.

33:19

And then another friend called, and

33:21

another friend called, and everybody was,

33:23

I was like, wait a second.

33:26

I'm not failing. I'm just having

33:28

to admit that I'm not happy.

33:30

And weirdly, the way that I

33:32

wanted to love my people through

33:35

their unhappiness made me realize I

33:37

deserved to be loved through mine

33:39

as well. But isn't it interesting

33:41

when you see your stuff reflected

33:44

in somebody else, your response, anyone's

33:46

response is usually compassion, but to

33:48

yourself? It's judgment. Yeah. Because you

33:50

look at your own. you know,

33:53

quote, shortcomings. It's like, oh, I'm

33:55

failing. But when a friend is

33:57

in pain or a friend is

33:59

struggling, you're like. my God, you're

34:02

struggling, I'll do anything I can

34:04

to help you. Yeah. And so

34:06

it's, it is really interesting. And

34:09

I think for me, figuring out

34:11

how to help my people made

34:13

me help myself in a better

34:15

way. And what it really did

34:18

as well was it forced me

34:20

to say. Why do

34:22

I care what anyone else thinks

34:25

of me? All these people were

34:27

cheering for me when I was

34:29

miserable. And if they're not going

34:31

to cheer for me getting free

34:34

or getting happy, what is the

34:36

cheering me? Right. And so I

34:38

think, I don't know, I think

34:41

when you have things to, you

34:43

know, heal from or process, which

34:45

clearly we both do, and I

34:48

actually think everybody does. I think

34:50

we are fortunate our generation has

34:52

access to the language and the

34:55

tools about mental health in ways

34:57

that prior generations haven't, but it

34:59

also means it's kind of our

35:01

task to shift the way we

35:04

live and relate to ourselves and

35:06

to others, and it's a big

35:08

one. I think we're really lucky

35:11

to kind of all be in

35:13

it together, but it is tricky.

35:15

And I think it's especially tricky

35:18

when your job requires... public presence

35:20

and public life because you don't

35:22

get to take a sick day,

35:25

you don't get to have a

35:27

day off, you don't get to

35:29

have a bad day. And I

35:31

think maybe because so many people

35:34

are worried that they're the only

35:36

ones having bad days, that's where

35:38

that ha ha comes from when

35:41

people trip. And it's the thing

35:43

I think we need to ditch

35:45

immediately. And before I forget to

35:48

say this, because I wanted to

35:50

say this to you three times

35:52

in the last four minutes, I'm

35:55

having an aha moment talking to

35:57

you like this, even in the

35:59

ways, by the way, that I

36:01

perceive you and what you do.

36:04

I'm going, oh. Now I understand

36:06

why you're so good at striking

36:08

this balance as a journalist between

36:11

covering who these athletes are and

36:13

their personal stories with their performance

36:15

on the court. Like, duh, of

36:18

course, it's because you are doing

36:20

the same in your own life.

36:22

And of course it is. I

36:25

appreciate you saying that it really,

36:27

really means the world to me.

36:29

There is no... compliment that I

36:31

take more than when a woman

36:34

I admire as who's had to

36:36

walk through a fire tells me

36:38

that they see mine both what

36:41

I the fire I've walked through

36:43

and the fire that's within me

36:45

like that there's nothing that means

36:48

more to me than that. When

36:50

I was listening to you talk

36:52

about that kindness and how it's

36:55

judgment for yourself but a kindness

36:57

towards other people. You know that?

36:59

phrase, treat others the way you

37:01

want to be treated. Yes. I

37:04

just, just as you were talking,

37:06

I said to myself, maybe I

37:08

need to treat myself the way

37:11

that I strive to treat others.

37:13

Yes. Because my goodness are, are

37:15

we so tough on ourselves? And

37:18

I do think that what's the

37:20

balance between perfectionism being something that

37:22

drives you? And something that also

37:25

is like a little bit debilitating

37:27

when you need to shake in

37:29

order to be happy, right? Because

37:31

I, when I moved to Los

37:34

Angeles, I told myself the story

37:36

that all I had time for

37:38

was work and it requires this

37:41

singular. focus and it does. The

37:43

athletes that I cover are the

37:45

best in the world and so

37:48

I do believe that you need

37:50

to match their dedication to the

37:52

sport with how you cover them.

37:55

That doesn't mean that you don't

37:57

make mistakes. that doesn't mean that

37:59

there aren't stories that 22-year-old Malika

38:01

I would cover differently than 30-year-old

38:04

Malika. But these breaks that I

38:06

had in the day, I would

38:08

just sit and work and wait

38:11

for games to come on versus

38:13

those two or three hours using

38:15

them to do something I really

38:18

enjoyed outside of work because I

38:20

do think everything is a balance,

38:22

right? And balance like... When I

38:25

say balance, I don't mean work

38:27

life balance because I sort of

38:29

think we need to get away

38:31

from that. Everything is sacrificing at

38:34

all times. There is no balance

38:36

really for women. But what I

38:38

mean is finding a recipe that

38:41

works for you that allows you

38:43

to be the best and happiest

38:45

version of yourself at work. And

38:48

so for me, those ingredients were

38:50

my husband horseback riding and reading.

38:52

That combined with work is my

38:55

recipe for success. I'm not. I'm

38:57

not happy if I don't feel

38:59

fulfilled in my job and that

39:02

I feel like I'm doing my

39:04

best there. But I'm also not

39:06

happy when my time with my

39:08

husband continues to suffer or I

39:11

don't get out to the barn

39:13

or I haven't read a book

39:15

this week. Like there is a

39:18

darn new lights, but there is

39:20

a, there's a recipe to, to

39:22

all of that. And I think

39:25

that that's sort of what I'm.

39:27

I'm working to find. Like that's

39:29

what it is. It's just working

39:32

to find that. And that's on

39:34

a weakness. Like that's the other

39:36

thing is like meeting that I

39:38

think is something that, like you

39:41

said, we're finally, it's finally encouraged

39:43

and okay. Yeah. But it doesn't

39:45

mean figuring it out in hard.

39:48

No, it's very hard. And I

39:50

mean, for me, you know, growing

39:52

up, I spend the entire decade

39:55

of my 20s on it. show

39:57

and you know when you're filming

39:59

a show and you're at work

40:02

15 16 sometimes 17 hours a

40:04

day you you get trained to

40:06

work yourself in a way that

40:08

is not sustainable. And even now,

40:11

I have to work on getting

40:13

outside, taking a break, going for

40:15

a walk, like just stopping, because

40:18

I will do the same thing.

40:20

I will sit and I will

40:22

read and I will work and

40:25

work and work and work all

40:27

day. And that's not really a

40:29

life. And so finding, you know,

40:32

to your point, not the balance,

40:34

but making sure that there's not

40:36

just one ingredient in the recipe

40:38

is so important. And I won't

40:41

tell him about all the praise.

40:43

We'll hide this episode from him.

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now. It's not lost on

43:20

me the way you talk

43:22

about your husband and the

43:24

way you light up. When

43:26

you speak about him, it

43:28

sounds like you have such

43:30

a great partner. helps you

43:32

claim your joy outside of

43:34

work, who also happens. to

43:36

be a sports journalist, so

43:38

I would imagine has a

43:40

great purview into what work

43:42

takes for you. How do

43:44

you guys keep your personal

43:46

and professional separate? Or do

43:48

you have like a, I

43:50

need to ask you a

43:52

work question right now and

43:54

then like put your work

43:56

on, put your husband that

43:58

on. Like what is, how

44:00

do you do it? Yeah,

44:02

we definitely, definitely have the,

44:04

I have a work question.

44:06

Yeah. Dave is a sports

44:08

journalist and so I think

44:10

there's a baseline of understanding

44:12

that comes with the irregular

44:15

hours that we both have

44:17

to work and I think

44:19

that that speaking the same

44:21

language is very very important

44:23

but it also can make

44:25

it so that if you're

44:27

not intentional you can fall

44:29

into constantly talking about basketball

44:31

now basketball is always on

44:33

in our house because we

44:35

genuinely enjoy it and we

44:37

love it and we try

44:39

to be very specific about,

44:41

okay, now we are going

44:43

to turn this off. Okay,

44:45

when he is talking on

44:47

the phone to somebody that

44:49

I know that is a

44:51

work call for him, his

44:53

sources are separate than mine,

44:55

like those are very, we're

44:57

very specific about making those

44:59

separate. But I think whatever

45:01

the common language that you

45:03

have with a partner is,

45:05

that's. That's I think that's

45:07

the secret sauce right like

45:09

that's the thing that's really

45:11

really important and You know

45:13

Dave going back to the

45:15

writing piece of it. I

45:17

think that's one thing that

45:19

I've always best communicated writing

45:21

things down and he is

45:23

a. beautiful writer and every

45:25

time he goes on a

45:27

road trip he'll leave me

45:29

a note and I get

45:31

to read it and that's

45:33

reminiscent for me of you

45:35

know my when I was

45:37

younger you know that was

45:39

something that my family did

45:41

for each other we would

45:43

leave each other notes And

45:45

now to have that whenever

45:47

he goes on a road

45:50

trip, because we talk every

45:52

day and we have all

45:54

the, you know, everyone is

45:56

texting all the time now

45:58

and we talk on the

46:00

phone and all the stuff,

46:02

but he does travel for

46:04

significant portions of the year,

46:06

I think having separate. separate

46:08

hobbies. He likes to play

46:10

pick up, I like to

46:12

ride horses, and then coming

46:14

together with something, everything is

46:16

still new to talk about

46:18

at the end of the

46:20

day, even if you watch

46:22

the same basketball game. So

46:24

he's a very, very special

46:26

person. He is very kind.

46:28

He is more friends than

46:30

anyone I know, and I

46:32

think that's because so many

46:34

people see how special he

46:36

is. He had 12 groomsmen

46:38

in our wedding. Yeah, we

46:40

made no cuts and that

46:42

was actually actually actually we

46:44

did make cuts that was

46:46

down from 16 he wanted

46:48

16 away with 12 so

46:50

The man has a lot

46:52

of friends and I think

46:54

that's because he just has

46:56

this like light to him.

46:58

That's really wonderful, but I

47:00

don't I don't talk about

47:02

him a lot because I

47:04

I also want to protect

47:06

there's a protection there and

47:08

I think that sometimes folks

47:10

you can it's easy to

47:12

confuse not posting

47:14

something with not really and truly

47:17

feeling deeply about something. So, you

47:19

know, I think that's what it

47:21

is too with him. Yeah, I

47:23

mean, I think it's so important

47:25

to keep aspects of your life

47:28

for you, to keep those things,

47:30

you know, kind of sacred, I

47:32

mean, to your point. things get

47:34

so picked apart in general it's

47:36

like how much do you really

47:39

want to open for more of

47:41

that and and again even people

47:43

who seem super open like some

47:45

people think I'm really private and

47:47

some people think I'm really open

47:49

and I'm like I'm that means

47:52

you're doing something right I vacillate

47:54

yeah there's so much of my

47:56

life you know nothing about and

47:58

I like that way and and

48:00

and you know Well, listen, we're

48:03

women in media and I know

48:05

this to be true and I

48:07

also know you've talked about this

48:09

a little bit that that being

48:11

picked apart as a woman in

48:14

these public spaces is really hard

48:16

and particularly for you to be

48:18

one of the women in such

48:20

a historically male dominated field. How

48:22

how do you kind of protect

48:25

your peace because you protect your

48:27

peace with your marriage by making

48:29

sure a lot of your private

48:31

life is private. How do you

48:33

protect your piece with the requirement

48:36

to be online and on camera?

48:38

Do you have like a, I

48:40

don't read the comment section rule.

48:42

Yeah, that is a very important

48:44

role. I do not read the

48:47

comment section. Common sections are closed

48:49

because I, you know, it actually,

48:51

I advice that I got from

48:53

a colleague of mine was you

48:55

have all of the people around

48:58

you. that can tell you to

49:00

your face with the intention of

49:02

helping you to be better, both

49:04

when you've succeeded and both when

49:06

you have left something to be

49:08

desired. There are stories that I

49:11

come away from that I think,

49:13

wow, I really, really feel and

49:15

I hope that the subject felt

49:17

that we did. them justice. And

49:19

I hope that the audience felt

49:22

entertained or moved or I really

49:24

think the production staff came together

49:26

and did a fantastic job there.

49:28

And then there are other stories

49:30

that I walk away and I

49:33

think, you know what, that wasn't

49:35

the right angle. That detail wasn't

49:37

necessary. I'm not sure that was

49:39

fair. And I try to, I

49:41

always, I tell players, I make

49:44

sure that I show up to

49:46

these games. I show up when,

49:48

you know, Janus and I had

49:50

a conversation about this recently where

49:52

he was talking about on a

49:55

podcast, how he had walked out

49:57

on me in a press conference

49:59

and he and I had a

50:01

conversation, he'd message me. apologize later

50:03

and he and I had had

50:06

a conversation about it and I

50:08

said you know I wanted to

50:10

ask you a question that press

50:12

conference just for you to see

50:14

that I was there and I

50:17

do want to show up even

50:19

when things aren't peachy and roses

50:21

and we had a really good

50:23

conversation about that the two of

50:25

us did. I know both of

50:27

those things have happened that both

50:30

I've done well and both that

50:32

I need to be better and

50:34

that the subject deserved better and

50:36

I have the real life producers,

50:38

the real life people, the real

50:41

life friends, the real life family

50:43

to say, you crushed that and

50:45

girl that, you know, we need

50:47

to work on that next time.

50:49

What I was looking for in

50:52

the comment section was for my

50:54

worst fears to be echoed. If

50:56

I thought I looked bad in

50:58

a dress that one day, didn't

51:00

matter if 20 people told me

51:03

I look great. The one person

51:05

who told me I didn't, I

51:07

was like, I knew it. Thank

51:09

you. Oh, zero, zero, no profile

51:11

picture. You know, like that, thank

51:14

you. That's what I was looking

51:16

for. And that I, that you

51:18

don't need. Have a circle that

51:20

can echo back to you the

51:22

good and put up the red

51:25

flag and say you need to

51:27

be better. Because that's what I

51:29

was looking for in those comments.

51:31

It is really weird how it

51:33

doesn't matter how much of it's

51:36

good. It's the one that's bad.

51:38

It's like the worst kind of

51:40

confirmation bias a person can have

51:42

and because it's pain and it's

51:44

cruelty and it's like sometimes I'm

51:46

like, what are we doing with

51:49

the internet? But you know, it's

51:51

also part of our job. You

51:53

mentioned your, you know, your kind

51:55

of workwives and your circle of

51:57

women. Who do you lean on

52:00

for support when you exactly when

52:02

you say these things like? Yes,

52:04

comment section closed, goodbye, we're done

52:06

with you. But when you want

52:08

feedback, when you want encouragement, when

52:11

you want someone to give you

52:13

constructive... criticism, you know, who do

52:15

you turn to first? Yeah, I'm

52:17

really lucky. And I've said that

52:19

I realize how many times I've

52:22

said that on this podcast, but

52:24

I really truly believe it. I

52:26

believe when we're talking about recipes,

52:28

which that's now what I'm going

52:30

to say. Work life balances out,

52:33

a recipe for happiness is in

52:35

for my vernacular because I just

52:37

don't think that balance can exist.

52:39

I think that a recipe and

52:41

happiness can. My coordinating producer of

52:44

the show is a woman, Hillary

52:46

Guy, and one of the main

52:48

analysts on our show, Shinne Guma

52:50

Kay, is also a woman. And

52:52

they are my two angels. I

52:55

don't have a devil. I get

52:57

an angel on each shoulder that

52:59

whenever there is something, I know

53:01

I can turn to them. And

53:03

when Gail King and Oprah for...

53:05

Gail's birthday, I think they were

53:08

doing a podcast maybe with Melinda

53:10

Gates, and Oprah had said something

53:12

to the effect of a friend,

53:14

there can't be jealousy, there just

53:16

have to be this unbridled cheering

53:19

and support, there can be good

53:21

spirited competition, but jealousy cannot be

53:23

a factor in a true and

53:25

meaningful friendship. And, you know, Claire

53:27

and I. my friend that got

53:30

into the paper with me, still

53:32

one of my best friends. We

53:34

went up for the same editor-in-chief

53:36

job of the college paper. One

53:38

of us got it, one of

53:41

us didn't, and it's continued without

53:43

any jealousy and just pom-poms out

53:45

and support system on. Shinay, Hillary,

53:47

like I really feel like I

53:49

have that. And that's not something

53:52

that's always there. I think that

53:54

just like any... One, there's always

53:56

different circles of people who provide

53:58

different things, but I'm really lucky

54:00

to have that. Because I do

54:03

think that's true. I think that

54:05

there has to just be a

54:07

sturdy, strong, unbridled backing. And that's

54:09

my circle of women. I love

54:11

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now. Do you still, or can

56:38

you? Or is it maybe like

56:41

a work hat and a home

56:43

hat thing? Can you watch basketball

56:45

just for fun? No. I mean,

56:47

it's not crew. I can watch.

56:50

non NBA basketball just however when

56:52

I'm sitting in the stands and

56:54

you know a big play happens

56:56

and I'm there just I'm not

56:59

working. I'm sitting in the stands.

57:01

I feel like I've forgotten how

57:03

to clap because you can't clap

57:05

on press row. And I feel

57:08

like when I clap, I like

57:10

move my hands like, I don't,

57:12

but if I don't clap, I

57:14

don't clap at sporting events when

57:16

you're on a press row, you're

57:19

on press pro. And now when

57:21

I clap, I feel like I'm

57:23

massing my hands together in a

57:25

way that I don't even, why

57:28

can't I figure out how to

57:30

clap like an or I over.

57:32

So ridiculous. But when I go

57:34

to like a musical or something,

57:37

I'm totally fine clapping. But a

57:39

sporting event, I'm like, these claws

57:41

don't mess together. I look at-

57:43

I bet with every clap, you

57:46

feel like you're breaking the rules.

57:48

I'm like, what am I doing

57:50

here? But it's, yeah, watching the

57:52

NBA specifically, I will never lose

57:55

the like childlike joy of seeing

57:57

literal superheroes because most human beings

57:59

cannot do physically what these- folks

58:01

do what these men and women

58:04

do. But yeah, it's a little

58:06

hard to fully remove, especially because

58:08

people say, well, who are you

58:10

a fan of? It's like, well,

58:12

I'm a fan of the people

58:15

now, because I know them. You

58:17

root for good people. And there

58:19

are, the NBA is just like,

58:21

chockful of good guys. The WME

58:24

is chockful of fantastic women. So

58:26

you like, you root for good

58:28

people to succeed. And so it's

58:30

always a little bit. You know,

58:33

there's always a winner and a

58:35

loser, but it's like dang. I

58:37

like this this player. Oh man.

58:39

I love that player didn't want

58:42

to see him. So, you know,

58:44

that's what I'll work on my

58:46

my hand washing God the W.

58:48

M. B. A finals last year.

58:51

Oh my gosh. We just are

58:53

now. We get seven. We get

58:55

seven games of this beautiful, delightful

58:57

torturelessly close games. And it's going

59:00

to be it's going to be

59:02

incredible. My little sister covers women's

59:04

women's basketball too. So it's It's

59:06

so exciting. Yeah, I'm a die-hard

59:08

Liberty fan and God, that was

59:11

quite a nail biter for us.

59:13

Yeah, I was, ironically, you mentioned

59:15

road trips. I was on a

59:17

drive, literally the night of the

59:20

last game. I'd plan this trip

59:22

months before. There was like no

59:24

way I could change the timing.

59:26

And we had to use my

59:29

hot spot and like get online

59:31

to walk, you know, and it

59:33

was just so stressful, but so

59:35

exciting. And there was a moment

59:38

where, you know, out in the

59:40

middle of nowhere in the desert,

59:42

I was like, this is commitment.

59:44

Like, we've got this game on,

59:47

like, pulled over on a highway.

59:49

That's awesome. There is no missing

59:51

it and it was it was

59:53

very funny to me. It was

59:56

it was a fun time. I

59:58

love that. That's the best kind

1:00:00

of there's so few things in

1:00:02

the world though to walk into

1:00:04

an arena to look around to

1:00:07

see grown-ups screaming their heads off

1:00:09

jumping up and down nowhere else

1:00:11

in no other sector of life

1:00:13

do you get that than in

1:00:16

sports and so that's kind of

1:00:18

what's so cool is it just

1:00:20

brings this joy for people. That's

1:00:22

what sports is in its best.

1:00:25

That's what I love about it.

1:00:27

There is nothing like a playoff

1:00:29

game. There is nothing like a

1:00:31

finals game. There's nothing like a

1:00:34

game seven where it's all on

1:00:36

the line down to one thing

1:00:38

or a game five. There's nothing

1:00:40

like it. It's the coolest thing

1:00:43

in the world and you know

1:00:45

to be able to to, not

1:00:47

to sound cheesy, but like every

1:00:49

time. I remember one time. I

1:00:52

walked on to set. I've grown

1:00:54

up on ESPN, right? I came

1:00:57

to ESPN and I was 21,

1:00:59

maybe barely 22. And I started

1:01:01

as a writer. I worked my

1:01:03

way up as a writer. I

1:01:06

covered the coronavirus. I eventually was

1:01:08

given an NBA today. And I

1:01:10

remember walking in to the studio

1:01:13

one day because I forgot my

1:01:15

laptop charger because I forget my

1:01:17

laptop charger every day. And all

1:01:19

the lights were out and it's

1:01:22

a huge studio and, you know,

1:01:24

television sets that is as massive

1:01:26

pieces of awesome equipment. And we're

1:01:28

the only show that comes out

1:01:31

of our studio, Studio H, in

1:01:33

Los Angeles. And I remember walking

1:01:35

in, it's quiet and the desk

1:01:37

looks really little at the center

1:01:40

of this enormous studio and thinking.

1:01:42

Oh my goodness. Every single, every

1:01:44

piece of equipment, this desk, this

1:01:46

chair, all of this is for

1:01:49

me. It's for us, it's for

1:01:51

the show that we create and

1:01:53

the producers and everyone, but, but

1:01:55

yeah. little me that that girl

1:01:58

that didn't feel like she belonged

1:02:00

or wasn't sure where things were

1:02:02

going or if she was good

1:02:04

enough to have in that moment

1:02:07

of quiet like, oh wow, this

1:02:09

is for me, which is such

1:02:11

a responsibility and also so much

1:02:13

fun, was just a very, very

1:02:16

cool thing to be reminded of.

1:02:18

I think sometimes we should remind

1:02:20

ourselves of that when you walk

1:02:22

into a place and you say,

1:02:25

oh yeah, this is for me.

1:02:27

because of the work I did

1:02:29

to set it up and set

1:02:31

myself up. And yeah, you get

1:02:34

to remind yourself that you've arrived

1:02:36

in a place that used to

1:02:38

be a dream. You know, when

1:02:40

you hear the, you know, remember

1:02:43

when you dreamed about what you

1:02:45

have now, I think that's very,

1:02:47

very true. And I try to

1:02:49

ground myself in that constantly because

1:02:52

it's so easy to look toward

1:02:54

the next or tomorrow or the

1:02:56

whatabouts. But I think if you

1:02:58

can just sit in that for

1:03:01

a little bit, it's... It's pretty

1:03:03

cool. It's pretty cool. It leads

1:03:05

me to get to talk to

1:03:07

you. It's amazing. From this place,

1:03:10

from sitting in that place where

1:03:12

you get to really let it

1:03:14

land and feel that kind of

1:03:16

joy, what feels like your work

1:03:19

in progress this year? What's ahead?

1:03:21

Oh, that's a good question. I'm

1:03:23

really... content

1:03:25

with continuing to sort of

1:03:28

get better at what I'm

1:03:30

doing. I really am excited

1:03:32

about hosting the NBA finals,

1:03:34

which is something that just,

1:03:36

like, I get a little

1:03:38

bit giggly even just saying

1:03:40

that. I'm really, really excited

1:03:42

for hosting the NBA finals

1:03:44

and the draft. back to

1:03:46

back that just feels like

1:03:48

it goes from the pinnacle

1:03:50

of sport to literally getting

1:03:52

to capture people childhood dreams

1:03:54

coming true and achieving generational

1:03:56

wealth and upward mobility for

1:03:58

a lot of families that

1:04:00

otherwise wouldn't be able to.

1:04:02

Like that to me is

1:04:05

like the coolest month of

1:04:07

my year and I really

1:04:09

am looking forward to getting

1:04:11

to do that. Last year

1:04:13

was the first year that

1:04:15

I was sitting in that

1:04:17

seat. What I hope is

1:04:19

a better better job this

1:04:21

year. That's something I really

1:04:23

look forward to. Oh, that's

1:04:25

so exciting. Congratulations. Thank you.

1:04:27

I appreciate that. And thank

1:04:29

you for today. It's really

1:04:31

just been such an absolute

1:04:33

pleasure. I've loved learning even

1:04:35

more about your story than

1:04:37

what I got to read

1:04:39

about ahead of our interview.

1:04:42

Well, thank you. I appreciate

1:04:44

you making the time and

1:04:46

the space and I would.

1:04:48

I would do the little

1:04:50

hold the finger thing if

1:04:52

I have two. Yeah. I

1:04:54

love it. Well, we'll have

1:04:56

to go like get a

1:04:58

bite to eat and hang

1:05:00

with your sister or something

1:05:02

soon. It would be so

1:05:04

fun. Yes. I would love

1:05:06

to. I would love to.

1:05:08

I would love to. I

1:05:10

would love to. I would

1:05:12

love to. And if you're

1:05:14

if your friend in Detroit

1:05:16

is up this way and

1:05:19

needs horses to ride. Oh

1:05:21

my God. I have got

1:05:23

horses to visit. We will

1:05:25

take you up on it.

1:05:27

My horse is okay. So.