0:00

Hello and welcome along

0:02

to Writers Routine. This

0:05

week we're chatting to

0:07

the science fiction author

0:10

Paul S. Edwards, who's just published

0:12

the first in a brand new

0:14

series, it's called the Triton Run.

0:17

We talk all about his twisting

0:19

and turning path to publication. Also

0:21

you can hear why, as someone

0:24

fairly busy, he doesn't only write

0:26

when he can, but also simply

0:28

what he can. If I simply

0:31

try and write from beginning to

0:33

end, that's when I do have

0:35

problems. You asked me earlier on

0:38

about, you know, are the points where you

0:40

do hear problems and things that slow you

0:42

down, and I think that can be... the

0:44

process of having to go from A to

0:46

B to C. So the one thing I

0:48

found that really really allows me to sort

0:50

of work quickly is the fact that I

0:52

do jump around a lot and then... Once

0:54

I've written all the bits, then I might

0:57

go back in that scene, well either fix

0:59

itself, because I'm coming at it with a

1:01

fresh head of eyes, or sometimes if it's

1:03

a scene that you've sort of really, really

1:05

struggled with, that's sometimes a sign that, you

1:07

know, that scene wasn't needed. And we really

1:09

get into it with the plotting and planning

1:11

of sci-fi. You can find out what he

1:13

thought could happen in reality when dreaming of

1:16

the story. So I then started a thing

1:18

called what might might the world. what the

1:20

solar system look like at that point in

1:22

the future. And that's when all the different

1:25

layers start to sort of appear to themselves.

1:27

So, you know, first of all, it's science

1:29

fiction. So, yes, I'm going to have some

1:32

aliens of some sort. It's going to be

1:34

a first contact story. So start, I think,

1:36

well, how could I incorporate that into it?

1:38

And then I started to look at the

1:41

other... levels of what would

1:43

society look like, you know,

1:46

what would be the political

1:48

background, the economic background, you

1:50

know, what drives people. It's

1:53

all happening in a brand

1:55

new episode of writers routine

1:57

with Paul S. Edwards. Yes.

2:00

along. This is writer's routine. Thanks so

2:02

much for finding us. My name is

2:05

Dan Simpson. It's a podcast where we

2:07

take a look inside an author's working

2:09

day. We find out how, when, and

2:11

where an author gets everything done. How

2:13

do they plan their life to give

2:16

them the best chance of getting words

2:18

down on the page? And with today's

2:20

guest, which you'll hear about, there's not

2:22

too much planning involved there. We'll come

2:25

to that in a second. Now on

2:27

my sub-stack newsletter last week, which you

2:29

can find online, writers-routine.substack.com, the link

2:31

is in the episode notes

2:33

too. Last week I asked

2:35

questions about what you want

2:37

from the podcast. Who are

2:39

you like hearing from? What genre

2:42

do they write in? Is it bestsellers?

2:44

Is it new debutante? Is it full-time

2:46

writers or ones who have made it

2:48

work with everything else happening in a

2:50

busy family home? How do they carve

2:53

out that time? If you've not seen

2:55

that, I'd love to hear what you think.

2:57

And I've had a good amount of

2:59

response as well. A lot of emails

3:01

have come in, so thank you very

3:04

much for that. If you've not clicked

3:06

onto the sub stack yet, please do

3:08

give it a go, just because I'd

3:10

really like to know what you think.

3:12

And as I said in the post,

3:14

by the way, this is not a

3:17

referendum. I'm not David Cameron panicked by

3:19

another tub-thumping writing

3:21

podcast in the review mirror.

3:23

of what's happening. We'll see how that

3:25

goes. It's writers routine.substack.com. Now for those

3:27

of you who answered that you wanted

3:29

to hear from writers of a unique

3:32

genre who managed to make it work

3:34

around about a billion other things, then

3:36

let me present to you today's guest.

3:38

Paul S. Edwards is a family man,

3:41

two young children, a lawyer now, a

3:43

published sci-fi author too. He's done it

3:45

through Northadocs, who are an indie publisher,

3:47

who specialised in Voices from the North

3:50

of England. You can hear how he

3:52

found them after a few near misses,

3:54

even one, along the way they've

3:56

got him dreaming of a blockbuster

3:58

Hollywood movie series. Paul is that

4:00

he doesn't just write when he can

4:02

or what he can as we heard

4:05

a second ago but also where he

4:07

can. Paul is perfectly fine with typing

4:09

away before football matches or at gigs

4:11

or whilst binging a TV show with

4:13

the rest of his family. And well

4:15

for that reason I think this is

4:17

the first episode of writers routine where

4:19

we don't actually get a proper writers

4:21

routine. You'll find out why, don't worry,

4:23

there's still a lot that you can

4:25

take away from this episode. Paul's new

4:27

novel is the triton run. Talk about

4:29

taking an epic idea and turning it

4:31

into reality, planning sci-fi, how he makes

4:33

it unique, his own, inspired by a

4:36

but not totally derivative of what's come

4:38

before. Also he talks brilliantly about the

4:40

passion of getting it out there and

4:42

the future of his writing and making

4:44

it work for him as an author,

4:46

thinking about not just branding the novel,

4:48

but also branding himself as a writer,

4:50

marketing what he's doing. One of the

4:52

ways is by... launching a website for

4:54

quite a short space of time. You

4:56

can take a look at that right

4:58

now, Paul S.edwoods.com. And we discuss what's

5:00

happening next. Now he's got his first

5:02

out, what changed about writing the second

5:05

when he suddenly had a publisher very

5:07

keen for it. It's all on the

5:09

way. I think you'll really enjoy it

5:11

with Paul S. Edwards and we start

5:13

as we always do with what he

5:15

sees around him in the place where

5:17

he sits down to write. There's

5:20

two answers to that. I think there's

5:22

the answer to where I write most

5:24

of why I write, which can be

5:26

done anywhere. And then of course there

5:28

is actually the computer where I do

5:31

finally sort of edit and put everything

5:33

back together again. And that's the office.

5:35

We've got a home where I work

5:37

from home. I'm lucky in the sense

5:39

that when lockdown hit and we all

5:41

changed to working from home, we sort

5:44

of had a home office sort of

5:46

kitted out so it's a really really

5:48

nice office and lovely furniture. The view,

5:50

however, it's not as good as some

5:52

of your other guests who talk about

5:54

having views of the countryside or cliff

5:56

tops and so on. The view from

5:59

my office is actually... the bins outside

6:01

the side of the house. So it's

6:03

not quite as luxurious. But apart from

6:05

that, it is a lovely room and

6:07

I've got sort of my work computer

6:09

there, my personal computer there shelves with

6:12

books and CDs and so on. And

6:14

that's sort of where the book comes

6:16

together at the end in terms of

6:18

editing all the pieces together and so

6:20

on. In that space around you, because

6:22

I know that you're writing science fiction,

6:25

so a lot of it is world

6:27

and universe building, is there any of

6:29

that? the power of an area around

6:31

you, so kind of maps, I don't

6:33

know, maybe notes or post-it notes, anything

6:35

like that? I don't have anything hanging

6:38

around that sort of relates to my

6:40

work. That's all sort of either in

6:42

my head or saved elsewhere or an

6:44

email and so on. But I think

6:46

the one thing that is sort of

6:48

useful, that might make someone think, yes,

6:51

this guy writes science fiction, science fiction,

6:53

art books. sort of John Harris, something's

6:55

Chris Foss and other art books, you

6:57

know, you sort of see from various

6:59

movies, you know, the art of June

7:01

or whatever it might be. And they're

7:04

sort of the books I sort of

7:06

occasionally turn to when I'm sort of

7:08

short of inspiration or I think I

7:10

need a really cool location for something

7:12

that I've planned, but I'm not sure

7:14

where. And sometimes you can just sort

7:17

of flick through, you know, hundreds of

7:19

images and they can sort of spark

7:21

the imagination going going. Is any of

7:23

your early stage drafting done there? Not

7:25

really, no, because it's rare that I

7:27

have to get the time to sort

7:29

of sit down and have, you know,

7:32

an hour or two in a run.

7:34

So no, most of the drafting is

7:36

done on the fly, I think, because

7:38

I would probably describe it. So if

7:40

you're on the fly, what are you

7:42

doing it on? Is it you and

7:45

a laptop and simply everything has to

7:47

be either on there or in your

7:49

head? It's mainly on I would guess

7:51

my sort of my phone or my

7:53

my iPad. I'm always jealous when I

7:55

sort of listen to other episodes with

7:58

a guest who describe their sort of,

8:00

you know, where they're full-time writers and

8:02

they can sort of spend, you know,

8:04

the day, sort of framed around writing

8:06

and get, you know, hours to sit

8:08

at their computer. I have to sort

8:11

of squeeze it in amongst everything else,

8:13

and as I expect. most budding authors

8:15

and even a lot of you know

8:17

published authors are the same. So for

8:19

me really is the case of if

8:21

I get you know 20 minutes 30

8:24

minutes maybe an hour it's to type

8:26

whatever's in my head into a device

8:28

you know for later use for stitching

8:30

into sort of into the book later

8:32

I mean that can literally be you

8:34

know sat in front of the television

8:37

while we're watching something I might have

8:39

my iPad open in front of me

8:41

and I'll just type notes to myself

8:43

at the football. You know, go to

8:45

concerts and so on again, I get

8:47

an hour at the football and because

8:49

of traffic and parking I end up

8:52

arriving sort of an hour early. So

8:54

I get an hour at the football

8:56

where I'll sit and type notes to

8:58

myself at the football, you know, go

9:00

to concerts and so on again, you

9:02

end up getting there long before the

9:05

band come on stage. and I'll sit

9:07

on the floor and you know write

9:09

a chapter sort of there and then.

9:11

Well it doesn't sound ideal to I

9:13

guess many people but is this something

9:15

that you're perfectly comfortable with? Are you

9:18

just absolutely able to sit down in

9:20

the floor of a big arena and

9:22

just you know start typing away? Yeah

9:24

I think so because I think probably

9:26

because... I don't know whether it's a

9:28

strength or failing in my sort of

9:31

the way I am, but yeah, I

9:33

mean the ideas are always floating around

9:35

in my head anyway. So, you know,

9:37

if I get that time, then I

9:39

just have to go for it because

9:41

I would get nothing done. And it's

9:44

amazing how, you know, a large proportion

9:46

of my actual sort of first drafting

9:48

is done that way. you're a lawyer.

9:50

So that's a job that you don't

9:52

kind of fall into, right? You've wanted

9:54

to do that. You've worked very hard

9:57

and that's where you are. So could

9:59

you see your writing life in any

10:01

other way? Like if the kind of

10:03

series blows up or does pretty well,

10:05

would you want to create more time

10:07

to sit there for hours just staring

10:09

at a screen in the office trying

10:12

to bash out our first draft? Well

10:14

I think I mean what one as

10:16

I spend my whole life sat in

10:18

the office or at my desk bashing

10:20

out words anyway the nature of the

10:22

nature of being a lawyer is that

10:25

most of my work you know is

10:27

drafting papers and and actually one of

10:29

the things that I have had commented

10:31

is that a lot of my actual

10:33

legal work is quite creative, you know,

10:35

in terms of trying to take the

10:38

client or the opponent or the judge

10:40

on a journey. So there are certainly

10:42

parallels, but yes, obviously if writing did

10:44

go well, then yeah, I would absolutely,

10:46

you know, embrace the opportunity to develop

10:48

more time to it. What have you

10:51

learned to do that helps you... be

10:53

very efficient with the small snatches of

10:55

time. If it were me, it would

10:57

take me quite a long time to

10:59

switch my brain on, you know, I'm

11:01

watching the football, I'm getting ready to

11:04

do that, I want to drag myself

11:06

away, I need to get into the

11:08

zone. What do you do to just

11:10

help that? Rather than doing something, I

11:12

think the main thing is that I

11:14

do or don't do is I don't

11:17

worry necessarily about the quality of the

11:19

first draft because ultimately the story's got

11:21

to get from A to B and

11:23

I can't edit it and make it

11:25

into a great story without actually having

11:27

some words down. So actually I'm sort

11:30

of quite relaxed in that if I

11:32

get that spare minute or we've chosen

11:34

a TV program that doesn't necessarily sort

11:36

of excite me, I just start typing

11:38

away and then I mean it is

11:40

funny you look back as it later

11:42

and sometimes you can clearly see I

11:45

was distracted and I must have been

11:47

enjoying the television because some of the

11:49

words aren't great or I've gone off

11:51

at a tangent but no it's just

11:53

a case of I just I just

11:55

have to make myself get on with

11:58

it. But you're now on a deal

12:00

where an orthodox press are publishing two

12:02

of your novels right so the first

12:04

book could have been written very flexibly

12:06

whenever you had snatches of 20 minutes

12:08

here half an hour in front of

12:11

the telly there but now surely you'll

12:13

need to be a... bit more focused

12:15

and regimented with your time? Yes, this

12:17

is the big change to be fair

12:19

and it's been quite a daunting prospect.

12:21

The first book was written over the

12:24

course of, I don't know, pro-took in

12:26

about five or six years and I

12:28

wrote three completely independent books during that

12:30

time and as you say there was

12:32

no time pressure or anything like this.

12:34

But obviously when I signed with Northadocs

12:37

who have been... absolutely brilliant to be

12:39

being supportive. The idea came up, well,

12:41

why don't you write a sequel? And

12:43

yeah, it was sort of the prospect

12:45

of, okay, well, you've got 12 months,

12:47

you know, to write that second book.

12:50

And I've never had to write, you

12:52

know, to a contract, to a deadline

12:54

before. But if, you know, I aspire

12:56

to be a, you know, if not

12:58

necessarily a full-time writer, but a more

13:00

serious writer, then it's something proper writers

13:02

have to do. So yeah, I have

13:05

certainly felt the added pressure. and I

13:07

think where is in the past you

13:09

know as you said too distracting to

13:11

focus on the football or bother writing

13:13

tonight even though I have got a

13:15

spare hour now I just can't let

13:18

myself do that I mean the sequel

13:20

is well the sequel was due two

13:22

or three weeks ago it's not quite

13:24

there but that they are being really

13:26

supportive about it and it will be

13:28

finished probably in the next couple of

13:31

weeks but yeah it is a very

13:33

different discipline. trying to force myself through

13:35

the word count, force myself, you know,

13:37

to get to get to the end.

13:39

So when you knew that you would

13:41

have to make that change, knowing how

13:44

you work and how limited your time

13:46

can be. How did you go about

13:48

planning that? Was it going to word

13:50

count per week? Was it just trying

13:52

to force yourself to be very efficient

13:54

with the bits of time that you

13:57

had? There must have been some structure

13:59

there that you had considered. Yeah, I

14:01

wish there was a precise structure. It

14:03

has been more a case of thrown

14:05

myself into it and knowing that roughly,

14:07

you know, a science fiction book, it's

14:10

going to be between 100 and 110,

14:12

10,000 words. and over the course of

14:14

the last, I mean when I say

14:16

it was within 12 months in reality,

14:18

there's probably about 14 months or something

14:20

like that, and I've effectively just tried

14:23

to keep on track with, you know,

14:25

our six months in, thankfully I'm a

14:27

50,000 word, so I know I'm roughly,

14:29

you know, roughly where I need to

14:31

be, and that's the way I've tried

14:33

to. try to pace it, but I

14:35

think it's sort of, I don't know,

14:38

I think it's a bit more beyond

14:40

a simple word count because there are

14:42

some bits where you can fly through

14:44

10,000 words and then I found over

14:46

the last six weeks that the word

14:48

count is not ground to a halt,

14:51

but I've reached a really important bit

14:53

towards the end and I have just

14:55

slowed down because that's about making sure

14:57

the, you know, the story is right.

14:59

And if you wrote the first one

15:01

over the course of about five or

15:04

six years, I guess you were kind

15:06

of redrafting as you were going, now

15:08

moving to the sequel and having to

15:10

get that off in a year, whatever

15:12

it was, how much have you had

15:14

to factor in time to, yeah, edit

15:17

but also making your first draft as

15:19

clean as possible? Yeah, I still don't

15:21

necessarily worry too much about it being...

15:23

too clean, but I think also, to

15:25

be honest, I'm a better writer because

15:27

when I first wrote the first draft

15:30

of the try it and run, obviously

15:32

I'd never written a book before, so

15:34

I think I ended up writing 160,000

15:36

words and the book that's coming out

15:38

is about 106,000 words, but since then

15:40

there's also two books written in the

15:43

meantime and I think I've learned and

15:45

improved my craft. I think in terms

15:47

of sort of being a clean draft

15:49

I seem to have stumbled on to

15:51

a process where I particularly with this

15:53

one as well it's sort of I

15:55

wrote the first third and then could

15:58

see the way ahead but then went

16:00

back to the beginning and worked through

16:02

it again to make sure I was

16:04

in the right place that I wanted

16:06

to be and then again I got

16:08

to about 60,000 words 70,000 words and

16:11

again at that point I went back

16:13

to the beginning again and began and

16:15

began and worked through it to make

16:17

sure that everything was sort of lined

16:19

up lined up for the conclusion because

16:21

thankfully the ending is the one thing

16:24

that I've always had in my mind

16:26

from day one. So I think there

16:28

is a structure there and a structure

16:30

that I've learned over the last few

16:32

years. Is there any social pressure when

16:34

you're with mates or maybe with family

16:37

and you go to watch the football

16:39

and you're whipping out your phone? You're

16:41

trying to get a few words down?

16:43

No, not really. I mean, to be

16:45

honest, for example, the football example, because

16:47

I get there early, there's not usually

16:50

anybody else there. So I sort of,

16:52

I tap away until, you know, my

16:54

friends or people who sit by me

16:56

and so on until they actually turn

16:58

up. But yeah, I mean, it's certainly

17:00

obviously been noticed in some social situations.

17:03

Paul's got his phone out. And I

17:05

think a lot of the time people

17:07

think I'm on, you know, Twitter or

17:09

something like that. But in fact, I'm

17:11

typing ideas away. But yeah, I do

17:13

tend to try and do it when

17:15

it's not impinging on family life, I

17:18

would say. You mentioned that there is

17:20

time when you're in the office and

17:22

that's when you are... you are editing,

17:24

you are kind of bringing all this

17:26

stuff together. How much of that is

17:28

a dedicated time that you have allotted

17:31

yourself to, yeah, we've got to bring

17:33

all these scrabbly notes across your phone

17:35

and across the iPad together? I don't,

17:37

I don't sort of set a, you

17:39

know, a particular time, like I don't

17:41

know, Thursday night or anything like that,

17:44

but there's certainly a sort of a

17:46

more determined way to try and sort

17:48

of get that structure in place. to

17:50

happen in every couple of days, I'll,

17:52

you know, whether it be sort of

17:54

late at night after everyone's gone to

17:57

bed, or you've got two little dogs

17:59

who quite like waking me up at

18:01

six, half past six in the morning,

18:03

even when I'm on holiday or at

18:05

the weekend, and I'll use that time

18:07

to then go back through the emails

18:10

that I've been sending to myself, I

18:12

have bits of text, and then I'll

18:14

copy. that text in two scurvener I

18:16

use and that's when I start sort

18:18

of pulling it all together and it's

18:20

only really on the last sort of

18:23

the last stretch when I'm doing a

18:25

final sort of edit you know spell

18:27

check and so on that's when I'll

18:29

actually sort of say right you know

18:31

okay for the next week every night

18:33

at you know ten o'clock or nine

18:36

o'clock or however I'll be going into

18:38

the home office and focusing on it.

18:40

I know that you always wanted to...

18:42

to write and you've always read science

18:44

fiction. What was the moment? Like because

18:46

you got a family, you're like a

18:48

lawyer, that's a busy job as it

18:51

is, you're having to snatch these bits

18:53

of time. What was the moment a

18:55

few years ago, whenever it was, where

18:57

you thought, oh, okay, you know, I'm

18:59

going to I'm going to take time

19:01

away from friends and loved ones and

19:04

like a bit of an inconvenience at

19:06

time because I just want to get

19:08

this story down, what was that moment?

19:10

I'm not sure if I can think

19:12

of the moment when I actually decided

19:14

yes I was going to write. I

19:17

mean I wanted to, you know, write

19:19

since I was a kid when we

19:21

were growing up. I was sort of

19:23

old enough that people didn't have PCs

19:25

and computers in those days. When we

19:27

were growing up, my dad worked in

19:30

education and during the school holidays he

19:32

could bring home a computer from whatever

19:34

school it was he was working in

19:36

and whatever. And then for that week,

19:38

because wow, we had a computer in

19:40

the house, I'd start trying to tap

19:43

away. And I've always had that sort

19:45

of that desire. But I think rather

19:47

than necessarily something that made me think

19:49

now is the time to write. It

19:51

was more a case if I just

19:53

sort of I just sort of got...

19:56

reinvigorated in terms of my interest in

19:58

science fiction and that happened. probably 20

20:00

years ago, a book called Revelation Space

20:02

by Alistair Reynolds, and it was the

20:04

first time I'd sort of sat and

20:06

read a book straight through in the

20:08

course of like two days or something,

20:11

and that sort of re-interested my and

20:13

reinvigorated my love for science fiction. And

20:15

then after that it was more a

20:17

case of just finding the right time.

20:19

and then of course children came along

20:21

which as you can well imagine sort

20:24

of takes away time so it's just

20:26

been a case of waiting for waiting

20:28

for the right moment and also to

20:30

be honest the right the right idea

20:32

once I had the idea for the

20:34

novel it was like okay well this

20:37

is what I've got to write I

20:39

think everyone's path to publication is different

20:41

to be honest I don't think there's

20:43

anyone one set way my way I

20:45

I wrote the book and as I

20:48

was finishing it I'd never you know

20:50

queried or knew how publishing worked so

20:52

I did lots of online research about

20:54

how it all worked in terms of

20:57

you need to get an agent first

20:59

and so on and I told myself

21:01

that you know I would try the

21:03

traditional route and then if I didn't

21:05

work then perhaps I'd look at you

21:08

know self-publishing sort of further down the

21:10

line but I know that to self-publish

21:12

I think it's quite a different discipline

21:14

because you need to understand advertising and

21:16

Amazon algorithms and that sort of thing

21:19

and I wasn't prepared to sort of

21:21

find the time for that because finding

21:23

the time just to write was hard

21:25

enough. So I did want to go

21:27

down the traditional publishing route. So yes,

21:30

I spent probably 18 months querying literary

21:32

agents. I seemed to do pretty well

21:34

in that I had quite a good

21:36

hit rate in terms of requests for,

21:39

you know, full manuscripts, a couple of

21:41

very near misses. You know, I'd get

21:43

a lot of good feedback. I had

21:45

one. I'll call them a Hollywood agent

21:47

without naming them who rejected the book

21:50

with lovely comments and then emailed me

21:52

a couple of weeks later saying I

21:54

might have made a mistake is the

21:56

book still available. So for the following

21:58

sort of few weeks I was sort

22:01

of convinced they were going to take

22:03

the book and it would be sold

22:05

and there would be movies and all

22:07

that sort of stuff. That didn't happen

22:10

but again got lots of positive feedback

22:12

and encouragement. And while all this was

22:14

going on I finished my second and

22:16

third book and then I'm just purely

22:18

on social media. I saw an orthodox

22:21

who are... very much an up-and-coming independent

22:23

publisher, the name sort of suggests that

22:25

they are supportive of northern-based writers. or

22:27

people from the North originally. And I

22:29

queried with them direct, because of course

22:32

with most publishers you can't, you have

22:34

to go via an agency. And they

22:36

said, yes, we'll take a punt on

22:38

you, and while you're at it, we'll

22:40

love you to write the sequel. Did

22:43

that process at the end of kind

22:45

of getting in touch with Northadox and

22:47

it all happening? Was that quite speedy?

22:49

It was speedy in terms of them

22:52

saying, yes, can we see the full

22:54

novel? It was far quicker than I

22:56

expected. It was speedy in terms of

22:58

them saying, yes, we'd love to, you

23:00

know, sign you. But then the actual

23:03

signing process did take several months. But

23:05

I presume that's probably no different to

23:07

going with one of the big publishers

23:09

as well, you know, sorting out contracts

23:11

and taking advice on it takes time.

23:14

Well, yeah, as a lawyer, I imagine

23:16

you... didn't need an agent for a

23:18

lot of that contract business. I would

23:20

have quite like to have had one

23:22

just to bounce ideas off, but what

23:25

I did do and I would recommend

23:27

to any sort of author in that

23:29

situation. The Society of Authors is worth

23:31

joining. I sent them the contract and

23:34

they sort of sent it back and

23:36

said, and to be fair to an

23:38

orthodox, you know, I'm not just... sort

23:40

of saying that they are nothing but

23:42

fair with their authors. You know, a

23:45

few suggestions for amendments were suggested by

23:47

them, which were good ideas. As you

23:49

say, having a legal hair that spotted

23:51

a couple of issues themselves. you know

23:53

there were a few emails back and

23:56

forth and yeah we you know we

23:58

agreed terms it wasn't difficult to agree

24:00

terms not by any stretch it was

24:02

you know it was quite a routine

24:04

process really just took time but that's

24:07

because you know they're busy with the

24:09

day-to-day work of the books that were

24:11

already lined up. and that was the

24:13

only thing that dragged out rather than

24:16

it not being important I think. So

24:18

it's almost pointless to ask you about

24:20

any proper routine because it's clear that

24:22

you just see it's not that you

24:24

wake up every morning and your you

24:27

know your day is centered around the

24:29

writing it's the reverse you have to

24:31

kind of snatch these moments where you

24:33

can. So it's pointless wasting time doing

24:35

that. So what I will say though

24:38

is is in having written the last

24:40

two books we'll almost finish the second

24:42

and what have you learn about... what

24:44

you need to write best. So if

24:46

the idea isn't coming, if you are

24:49

struggling, if you can't get into the

24:51

zone wherever you are, what have you

24:53

learned that just helps you out? I

24:55

think the biggest problem I found is

24:58

that if I simply try and write

25:00

from beginning to end, that's when I

25:02

do have problems. You asked me earlier

25:04

on about, you know, are the points

25:06

where you do hit problems and things

25:09

that slow you down, and I think

25:11

that can be... the process of having

25:13

to go from A to B to

25:15

C. So the one thing I found

25:17

that really really allows me to sort

25:20

of work quickly is the fact that

25:22

I do jump around a lot. So

25:24

if I've got a scene that's really

25:26

really difficult and I'm struggling with it

25:29

then the next time I get 20

25:31

minutes actually I'll just know I've got

25:33

another scene to write you know several

25:35

chapters ahead or whatever and I'll just

25:37

do that. So I'm constantly jumping around

25:40

and then once I've written all the

25:42

bits that I might go back and

25:44

that scene will either fix itself because

25:46

I'm coming at it with a fresh

25:48

head of eyes or sometimes if it's

25:51

a scene that you're sort of really

25:53

really struggled with that sometimes a sign

25:55

that you know that scene wasn't needed

25:57

so it might be a case of

25:59

actually that scene then gets deleted and

26:02

the bits of information that needed from

26:04

it get used elsewhere. Let's talk about

26:06

the... then. The Triton run. Did you

26:08

tell us all about the first moment

26:11

that the idea for this sweeping epic

26:13

came into your head? It was reading

26:15

an article on the BBC. There was

26:17

a story about, and I think they

26:19

were described as ferrymen, and essentially they

26:22

were sort of pilots who deliver small

26:24

sort of propeller type planes or personal

26:26

small jets all around the world. and

26:28

it sounds as if these guys are

26:30

basically sort of daredevils in that, you

26:33

know, a small play and that clearly

26:35

won't fit on. most boats you can't

26:37

stick it inside another plane but these

26:39

planes are bought by you know I

26:41

don't know millionaires who have islands in

26:44

the middle of nowhere or whatever or

26:46

a plane needs the living to Australia

26:48

and somehow someone has to fly this

26:50

plane across the ocean across the whole

26:53

world or whatever to deliver it and

26:55

this article was describing you know what

26:57

a dangerous job it was and how

26:59

they had to do repairs on the

27:01

fly and land on you know sort

27:04

of random tropical islands to sort of

27:06

fix the plane and take off again

27:08

and refuel. and that's just sort of

27:10

lit an idea as to well you

27:12

know what happened what would happen if

27:15

that happened in space someone's got to

27:17

deliver something to the to the end

27:19

of the solar system and they've got

27:21

you know to sort of do it

27:23

on their own and that was the

27:26

first idea that's interesting and then everything

27:28

else sort of then laid on on

27:30

top afterwards we say everything else layered

27:32

on top I mean the thing with

27:35

sci-fi is by its nature it's normally

27:37

grand it's sweeping it's sweeping Yeah, you're

27:39

writing a few hundred pages, so it

27:41

needs to be a bit focused, right?

27:43

You've got this idea of people delivering

27:46

stuff across the universe. Then what are

27:48

you thinking, Ned? How big are you

27:50

making this project to start with? I

27:52

mean, compared to some of the other

27:54

things I've written, you know, that we'll

27:57

hopefully see the light of day in

27:59

the future, which are sort of grander

28:01

and, you know, across sort of true

28:03

space opera or across the galaxies or

28:05

whatever, this story. was based in our

28:08

solar system. So it's still a huge

28:10

canvas to write on, but in that

28:12

sense it was limited. But once I

28:14

started to think of that idea, you're

28:17

right, I couldn't simply have that as

28:19

a story because in itself, you know,

28:21

it would need to be pretty special.

28:23

So I then started a thing called

28:25

what might the world or the solar

28:28

system look like at that point in

28:30

the future. And that's when all the

28:32

different layers started to sort of appear

28:34

to themselves. So, you know, first of

28:36

all, it's science fiction. some aliens of

28:39

some sort it's going to be a

28:41

first contact story so start I think

28:43

well how could I incorporate that into

28:45

it and then I started to look

28:47

at the other levels of what would

28:50

society look like, you know, what would

28:52

be the political background, the economic background,

28:54

you know, what drives people. And that's

28:56

when some of the sort of political

28:59

angles, you know, in the story, there's

29:01

sort of kidnappings of presidents and there's

29:03

terrorism in space and things like that.

29:05

I was trying to sort of build

29:07

that into it to sort of make

29:10

it a... a far deeper story than

29:12

a simple adventure of going from A

29:14

to B. These ideas could go on

29:16

forever, right? That's the joy of a

29:18

sci-fi. You've got, well, the solar system

29:21

to play with. How do you know

29:23

when enough is enough? Is there ever

29:25

a time when, you know, you have

29:27

an idea of what could happen and

29:30

you think, eh, it's probably not going

29:32

to fit into this one? There's definitely

29:34

a risk of being too much and

29:36

I think that's what happened with the

29:38

first draft. 166,000 words. This story is

29:41

a multi-point-of-view story. There's lots of characters,

29:43

they all end up roughly in the

29:45

same place at the end, but there

29:47

were too many different strands, too many

29:49

characters and that's when I realized I

29:52

didn't need to strip it back. So

29:54

some of it got removed. and so

29:56

it's been reused in the sequel, there

29:58

were other characters where effectively I merged

30:00

a couple of characters, I thought you

30:03

know we don't have... the time and

30:05

space to have two little stories or

30:07

little avenues going off at the same

30:09

time. So I would do that to

30:12

merge them. And ultimately I think there's

30:14

a lot crammed in into the 108,000

30:16

words and hopefully I got the balance

30:18

right. You can hear more from Paul

30:20

in just a second. I'm very quickly

30:23

popping by to remind you that if

30:25

you're enjoying the show, if you've learned

30:27

anything from today's episode or the 350

30:29

plus episodes I think now that we've

30:31

had with so many different types of

30:34

writers, well you can become part of

30:36

our community and perhaps say thank you

30:38

to the show for doing that. by

30:40

backing us over on patron or co-fi.

30:42

If you would like to regularly support

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to become part of the community on

30:49

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30:51

and there is even a way for

30:54

your book to sponsor the show on

30:56

there too, you can do that, patron.com/writer's

30:58

routine. It doesn't cost a lot, as

31:00

little as you can give, goes an

31:02

extraordinarily long way, I really promise. That's

31:05

on a monthly basis. You can also

31:07

do that as a tip my way,

31:09

if you fancy. on our cofi page

31:11

co dash fi.com/writers routine and and that's

31:13

a one and done if you would

31:16

really prefer that honestly I would just

31:18

like to see you there I love

31:20

the fact that what I'm doing is

31:22

really inspiring your work too so that's

31:24

on patron and co fi you can

31:27

get a link to those wherever you're

31:29

listening to the show so let's get

31:31

back to it with Paul S Edwards

31:33

then chatting about his new novel the

31:36

triton run we discuss how he's looking

31:38

forward in the future moving on to

31:40

a balancing with a touchball finesse his

31:42

work his family life and his writing

31:44

now he's finally got the dirt the

31:47

tritin run out there also we hear

31:49

how he's branding himself and the steps

31:51

that he's taking to make sure as

31:53

a writer he is being marketed effectively

31:55

and we jump back in talking about

31:58

well sci-fi as a genre because it's

32:00

big it's grand It's sprawling. There's quite

32:02

a few different types of it out

32:04

there. So how did he know what

32:06

needs to be in a sci-fi story?

32:09

Science fiction is full of

32:11

these traditional tropes, you know,

32:13

as you say, aliens, you

32:15

know, little green men and

32:17

so on. And I didn't want to

32:20

do that. I wanted to try

32:22

and sort of come up with different,

32:24

you know, with not been done before

32:26

or... it's not been done in that

32:28

way. So for example, you know, much

32:30

of the story is set around Neptune.

32:32

You know, there aren't many other stories

32:34

that are set around Neptune. You know,

32:36

part of the story is set around

32:38

Mars. And we know there's lots and

32:40

lots of, you know, films and stuff

32:42

around Mars. That's fine. But I wanted

32:44

to have the different angle to it.

32:47

And again, it was things like different

32:49

technologies and so on, you know, the...

32:51

part of the story is set on

32:53

the space elevator. Again, it's not an

32:55

original idea, but I had not seen

32:57

anything where there was, you know, terrorism

32:59

involved in space. So I tried to

33:01

sort of, some of the ideas are

33:03

traditional, some of them are new, and

33:05

hopefully they sort of all come sort

33:07

of been melded together to make something

33:09

that's, you know, the same but different,

33:12

if that makes sense. And by nature

33:14

of science fiction, the balance is the

33:16

science and the fiction, right. So as

33:18

far as we know, there are no aliens

33:20

on Mars or Neptune you can't set

33:23

foot on half the planets in the

33:25

solar system. How like what rules

33:27

are you saying for yourself on

33:29

how truthful you can make this

33:31

even though you're traveling into the

33:33

future so who knows like how How

33:35

much are you allowing yourself to

33:37

slightly bend what could be possible?

33:39

Yeah, I think, I mean, in

33:41

terms of science fiction, obviously there's

33:43

a sort of genre called hard

33:45

sci-fi where everything has to be,

33:47

you know, scientifically possible as far

33:49

as we understand it now. And

33:51

I did try to sort of

33:53

move more towards that direction, you

33:55

know, so in terms of like the

33:57

technology, you know, the space elevator.

34:00

theoretically that is a

34:02

possible structure. You know, I

34:04

watched, I went to the trouble

34:06

of watching various documentaries about how

34:08

these are being, you know, planned

34:10

and sort of tested and the

34:13

materials that are going to be

34:15

used to construct them are designed.

34:17

In terms of the locations, again,

34:19

I did quite a lot of

34:21

research on, you know, the various

34:24

asteroids and moons that I used,

34:26

you know, I looked to sort

34:28

of photographs, the data you know

34:30

what it's like, what it's like

34:32

actually being there. So it wasn't

34:35

simply a case of other landed

34:37

on this planet or that planet.

34:40

It's all sort of based with

34:42

a certain high degree of fact.

34:44

And in fact, one of the

34:47

funny things in terms of timing

34:49

is that everybody for the last

34:52

hundred years has thought that

34:54

Neptune was blue. So in my book...

34:56

I described Neptune as blue and then

34:58

literally the week after I'd handed it

35:01

in there was an article that came

35:03

out and said effectively scientists have got

35:05

it wrong in that the photos that

35:07

were taken by I think it was

35:10

a voyager that had some filters applied

35:12

to them and actually it's not that

35:14

below at all it's almost pale white

35:16

so we had to make thankfully there

35:19

was the time to go back and

35:21

change you know change that within the

35:23

book to make it accurate. What about

35:25

a language simply the words that you're

35:28

using on the page right because a

35:30

lot that takes you across the

35:32

universe like this does almost

35:34

doesn't need to be lost

35:37

in verbiage but sci-fi does

35:39

very well with prosaic language

35:41

and yet I know that you know

35:43

it must be quite hard to

35:45

to think of wonderful pretty pros

35:47

when you were sat there waiting

35:49

for you know Liverpool to come

35:52

out handfield right like it's it's

35:54

how much did you think about

35:56

the words on the page and

35:58

what's coming next? I don't think

36:00

I'm a literary writer in that I'm

36:03

not obsessed with having, you know, flowery

36:05

language and the sort of descriptive words

36:07

you're sort of alluding to there. I

36:10

think for me it's more important that,

36:12

you know, the story entertains and if

36:14

you can entertain, you know, and

36:17

sort of link a few ideas

36:19

back to real life and make

36:21

people think, then that's obviously great.

36:23

But for me, entertainment and sort

36:25

of making sure the plots write

36:27

and the characters are interesting is

36:29

more important than, you know, a

36:31

particular sort of use of, you

36:33

know, terminology or phrasing. You've done

36:36

something interesting with publication in

36:38

that you've made a very short-lived

36:40

website, right? Yes. Tell us about the

36:42

idea of why you've chosen to market

36:45

it like that. Well, I mean, it's only,

36:47

I say it's only a small part

36:49

of... how I go to market the

36:51

book and market myself, but when I

36:53

was doing the research to try and

36:55

find an agent, try and find the

36:57

publisher, I obviously spent a lot of

36:59

time online looking at websites and looking

37:01

at the websites for established authors, partly

37:03

to find out who their agents were,

37:05

but also just to try and sort

37:07

of understand how they work. And I

37:09

think the one thing that came out

37:12

is that, as well as marketing the

37:14

book. I think it's also important to

37:16

market yourself, particularly to try, you know, if

37:18

I'm going to turn this into a sort

37:20

of a career of sorts, you know, it's

37:22

important that people actually will get to see,

37:24

well, who am I, you know, why do

37:27

I write, what I write, what interests me?

37:29

So yeah, so I decided that it would

37:31

be useful to have a website that would,

37:33

you know, cover all that, I'll sort of

37:35

probably update it once or twice a month.

37:37

And I did that the, Probably one of

37:40

the reasons why I missed the deadline for

37:42

handing the book in because I spent over

37:44

Christmas, I spent a couple of weeks teaching

37:46

myself how to do it. You know, watching

37:48

YouTube videos, I built one that didn't look

37:50

right, so I deleted it and then built

37:52

one that you know, you currently see. It

37:54

was hard work, but now it's there, it's

37:57

worthwhile. And it's relatively easy to, you know,

37:59

keep taking it. with and adding

38:01

articles to. I know that you're also a

38:03

member of a writing group. Now I

38:05

am not, I've spoken to a few

38:08

authors who are, but what does that

38:10

community give you? Why does that, when

38:12

you're starting out as an author, particularly,

38:14

what does the ability to have other

38:17

people around you as your writing do?

38:19

The timing was really strange actually. I

38:21

was invited to join the writing

38:23

group the same week that Northadoc

38:25

sent me their contract. and I

38:28

actually wish I'd been a member

38:30

of it for several years earlier.

38:32

But anyways, the way it works

38:34

is that there's probably about half

38:36

a dozen members of the group.

38:38

All of us are sort of

38:40

ambitious, want to be authors. A

38:42

couple in the group have contracts,

38:44

a couple don't, some self-published, but

38:47

we're all trying to go in

38:49

the same direction and, you know, and

38:51

get books out there. And what happens

38:53

is every sort of... two to three

38:55

months we'll share some work so everybody

38:57

will share I think it's 10,000 words

38:59

and then we all take a month

39:01

six weeks or whatever it might be

39:03

to then read it and provide feedback

39:06

and I think to be honest it

39:08

was the first time that I'd actually

39:10

had to feedback from from anybody. I

39:12

mean, you know, you'll have heard and

39:14

you'll, I'm sure, know all about impostor

39:17

syndrome. So there was no way I

39:19

was ever going to share my drafts

39:21

with my family or my friends because

39:23

you would fear the reaction you might

39:26

get. So the only people that I've

39:28

ever seen my writing had been agents

39:30

and of course, orthodox. So it was

39:33

really refreshing to share work with other

39:35

fellow writers. It was the first

39:37

time I'd ever actually had proper

39:39

sort of line by line feedback.

39:42

I often speak to people on

39:44

the podcast who will complain about

39:46

the baggy middle of writing and

39:48

I know that's whenever I struggle,

39:51

whenever I struggle, it's about 35,000

39:53

words slap bang in the middle.

39:55

You're writing 166, 66,000 words? How

39:58

tricky was that halfway through? was

40:00

just, did it change the viewpoint of

40:02

how you write because you were doing

40:04

so much of it? I think it

40:07

did and I think that there's no

40:09

doubt about it. I think I talked

40:11

earlier on about having a stock takers

40:13

it were at sort of 30,000 and

40:16

60,000, 70,000 and I think that's definitely

40:18

true. And I think at that point

40:20

there is the danger that you go

40:22

off in totally the wrong direction

40:25

and certainly what I've done. previously

40:27

and I think we'll continue to do

40:29

is that sort of point actually that's

40:31

the time to go back to the

40:33

beginning because that's when you realize yeah

40:36

didn't really need you know that tangent

40:38

or that character or that scene was

40:40

too long or wasn't working. The

40:42

thing with sci-fi is what inspires you

40:44

know sci-fi more than anything I think

40:47

is probably other sci-fi right? Usually ardent

40:49

fans of it tend to write

40:51

it itself. So how do you

40:53

go about making yours different? How

40:55

do you go about making your

40:57

lead character completely different from say

40:59

a Luke Skywalker? Something completely alien,

41:01

you know, forgive the pun to

41:03

those things, because it must be

41:05

quite easy for your influences. and

41:07

the stuff that you read and

41:09

are quite vernatical about to creep

41:11

into your stuff? I think you

41:13

sort of, it's a great question

41:15

because it is so true, I

41:17

think certainly as I was younger, any

41:19

drafts of stories that I made which

41:21

are all thankfully long, long deleted, there

41:24

is a tendency to go down that

41:26

of the sort of, you know, the

41:28

male hero, the Luke Skywalk, a character

41:30

who comes in and saves the princess

41:32

and saves the universe, you know, like

41:34

flash Gordon and bookarages and so on,

41:36

they all follow a I wanted in

41:39

my work was for it to be, for it

41:41

to be different, to be more grounded

41:43

in realism. And I think as part of

41:45

that, why I realized was that, you know,

41:47

we're all flawed in our own different ways.

41:49

And so a lot of my characters, as

41:51

I was sort of thinking, well, I need

41:53

a character to do X or Y. I

41:56

started to look at their sort of their

41:58

motivations and what their previous... life experiences

42:00

brought to the table. So all of

42:02

my characters have all got their own

42:04

baggage and some of that baggage, you

42:06

know, is in relation to things like addiction

42:08

or what one of the main characters,

42:10

you know, has a history where they

42:12

were labelled as a war criminal for

42:14

something that they've done. You know, that sort

42:17

of influences the way they act now.

42:19

So I think it was important. I

42:21

do try and sort of break away from

42:23

those traditional tropes because otherwise, as you

42:25

say, there's hundreds of books out there

42:27

that do exactly the same thing. And moving

42:29

forward, you know, you've got the

42:32

two-book deal with Orthodox. You're just

42:34

finishing the second. The first one's

42:36

coming out. You've got other books

42:38

that you've, you know, dabbled in

42:41

over the last few years. But

42:43

do you go on? Do you

42:45

do more sci-fi? Do you dream

42:47

of another universe that you

42:49

could set stories in? You know, you

42:52

know, it's the sort of area of

42:54

media where... I like watching the TV

42:56

shows, the movies, it's the only thing

42:58

I pretty much read apart from an

43:00

occasional crime thriller on holiday or something

43:03

like that. So I think, yeah, there's

43:05

no doubt that I'll be sort of

43:07

staying in the science fiction space, opera

43:09

space, space, and the two other books

43:11

that I've got, you know, once I've

43:13

handed in the sequel to the try

43:16

and run, I'll be back to sort

43:18

of finishing and updating those. So,

43:20

you know, hopefully I've got sort

43:22

of, it'll be... for science fiction

43:25

books effectively lined up. And

43:27

any possibility that you could be

43:29

a bit more regimented with any

43:31

routine and writing more than just

43:34

snatches before a local gig? Well,

43:36

we'll see. I mean, thankfully, my

43:38

children are more growing up now.

43:40

They're sort of heading off to

43:42

university later this year. So, you

43:44

know, hopefully that will sort of

43:47

bring a change in lifestyle, you

43:49

know, sort of... to the family so hopefully

43:51

yeah there will be more scope for

43:53

well yes I can write early on

43:55

a certain morning or you know on

43:57

a Sunday morning I can I can

43:59

write rather than taking children to

44:01

sports events or whatever it might

44:04

be. And that is it for this

44:06

week's episode of writer's routine. Thank you

44:08

so much to Paul S. Edwards for

44:10

coming on the show. You can find

44:12

out more about the trite and run

44:14

published by Northadocs on his website, which

44:17

you heard about in the show Paul

44:19

S. Edwards.com. I will stick links, or

44:21

ever you're listening. You can back our

44:23

podcast to patron and cofi. Again links

44:25

are in the episode notes. As they

44:27

say. I'd love to hear what you

44:30

think about different writers that you want

44:32

to hear from. You can do that by subscribing

44:34

to my sub stack page. It's absolutely free, just

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44:38

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44:40

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44:42

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44:45

time I say a link, it's in the episode

44:47

notes, for every you're listening, right? And I will

44:49

see you next week with a brand new episode

44:51

with a brand new episode of the podcast, a

44:53

brand new episode of the podcast.