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3:01

This is Writing Excuses.

3:04

Polishing your writing lens.

3:06

I'm Howard. I'm Mary

3:08

Robinette. If you would like

3:10

to learn how to

3:12

support this podcast,

3:15

visit W.W.patreon.com slash

3:17

Writing Excuses. Season

3:19

20. Episode 3. This

3:21

is Writing Excuses. Polishing

3:23

your writing lens. I'm

3:25

Howard. I'm Mary Robinette.

3:27

I'm Donguan. I'm Dan. And

3:30

I'm Aaron. And we're going to

3:32

be looking this season at the

3:34

idea that we've been talking about

3:36

these toolboxes, but specifically

3:38

one of the most important tools

3:41

that a writer brings to their

3:43

work is their own personal lens.

3:45

You've heard us say this before,

3:48

that that's the thing that makes

3:50

a story, is you, that no one

3:52

else can write your story. So

3:55

that's shaped by your hobbies,

3:57

your job, your history, your

3:59

experience. And in this season, we're

4:01

going to be looking at all

4:03

of these tools, but we're also

4:05

going to be doing these additional

4:07

episodes where we're talking about writing

4:09

metaphors. The lens that we look

4:12

at, these personal lenses that we

4:14

bring to the work. For me, you've

4:16

heard me talk about puppetry a

4:18

lot. You're going to get a

4:21

whole episode later in which I

4:23

just talk about, I just ramble

4:25

about puppetry for a long time.

4:28

But everybody has these personal lenses

4:30

that are based on their experience.

4:32

Sometimes it's a lens that you

4:35

bring just to a single scene.

4:37

It's like, oh, this is like

4:39

that time that grandma did that

4:41

thing. And other times, it's just,

4:44

it's the mindset that you have

4:46

when you approach something. I have

4:48

joked in the past that, and

4:50

am I joking, or is it

4:52

true, that I'm a one-trick pony?

4:55

And the trick is... AB comparisons

4:57

where B might not really fit.

4:59

And I'm thinking about lenses

5:02

and realized the story of

5:04

the Hubble telescope is

5:06

so beautiful because they put

5:08

it in orbit and then

5:10

realized the lens was warped.

5:13

It was polished to perfection,

5:15

but it was shaped wrong. And

5:17

in order to get clear

5:19

pictures from the Hubble. They

5:21

had to study the distortions of

5:24

the lens and understand them to

5:26

the point that they could write

5:28

software to correct for it. And

5:31

I'm here to tell you that

5:33

if you know your personal lens

5:36

well enough to make those

5:38

kinds of corrections, you'll be

5:40

able to write anything. Yeah, I

5:42

mean, you know, this is my

5:44

20th year in publishing, dear God.

5:46

If there's one question I haven't asked more

5:48

than any other my career, it's what am I

5:51

looking for, right? As an editor, as an agent,

5:53

whatever it is, like what's the thing that I'm

5:55

looking for in a text? And the answer I

5:57

give more often than not is I'm looking

5:59

to see. you in the text, right? If I

6:01

can feel the writer as I'm reading

6:03

a pitch, as I'm reading the opening

6:06

pages, that's always going to catch my

6:08

attention more than anything else because,

6:10

you know, in tech culture they

6:12

talk about the unfair advantage, right?

6:14

Your unfair advantage is you. No one

6:16

else has your perspective, your experience,

6:18

your interests. And so when I

6:21

read something, what makes it feel

6:23

undeniable to me is feeling your perspective

6:25

in it, knowing that nobody else could

6:28

write the story that you've written. If

6:30

it feels like anyone could have

6:32

written this thing, then sure, I'll

6:34

look for anyone, right? But it

6:36

feels like you wrote this thing. Now

6:38

I'm locked in. I was talking to

6:40

a writer who said that they worried

6:42

that they were, quote, cheating because they

6:44

kept... using experiences from their own

6:46

life. And I'm like, no, that

6:49

is not cheating. That is the

6:51

whole point. If that's cheating, I belong

6:53

in jail. It was cheating because I

6:55

use heat to cook food. Oh, no.

6:57

It is, it's like you want to

6:59

play to your strengths and

7:01

we so often discount the

7:04

things that are, we discount

7:06

our own personal experiences because

7:08

we're like, well, that's not

7:10

interesting because it's, it's something

7:12

that we experienced. Therefore, it's

7:15

part of, it has become

7:17

part of our normal, and

7:19

we forget that other people

7:21

haven't had those experiences. Like,

7:23

how many of you have been an

7:25

elephant? Me? Okay. Thanks, Dan. Well,

7:28

you can write your own voice

7:30

as elephant story. Yeah. You know,

7:32

the one place where, sorry, thinking

7:34

about me being in jail for

7:36

cheating by using metaphor, if I

7:38

were asked to write Drax's dialogue

7:40

in Guardians of the galaxy,

7:42

Drax as a person who

7:44

does not understand metaphor.

7:46

And I found dialogue, even though

7:48

he would, I would call that cheating.

7:50

I would call, I would need to, sorry

7:53

Howard, you need to step away from

7:55

this tool you love and you need

7:57

to write something you're unfamiliar.

7:59

with because that character would

8:01

not talk like you want to

8:04

talk. And so, yeah, in that

8:06

respect, okay, sure, using your own

8:08

voice in some regard might be

8:11

cheating because you need to stretch

8:13

a little further to write a

8:15

character who is unlike you in

8:18

a specific way. But that's

8:20

the only example I can think

8:22

of. Well, and that's not so

8:24

much. The character is still

8:26

going to be having the thoughts

8:29

that you want to have them.

8:31

And one of the things that I

8:33

love is that you can tell

8:36

everyone, I know this for

8:38

a fact, I give this exercise

8:40

where I say, okay, we're going

8:42

to say, what did you say?

8:44

And everybody needs to change the

8:46

way it means to be a

8:49

specific character. and we go through

8:51

a bunch of them, and I

8:53

will give James Bond, and everybody

8:56

comes up with different ways that

8:58

James Bond would say, what did you

9:00

say? And that is still the

9:02

individual lens affecting the

9:04

idea of James Bond. Yeah, I think,

9:07

I love, the idea of cheating

9:09

is really interesting. I also

9:11

think that sometimes there are

9:13

some lenses that feel fragile. They are

9:15

lenses that are close to our identity.

9:18

They are lenses that are maybe close

9:20

to experiences we've had that we have

9:22

complex feelings about. And I think sometimes

9:24

it can be hard to try to

9:26

use those lenses as opposed to more

9:29

well-worn lenses that we have less connection

9:31

with, but we know well because like

9:33

you've seen, like it's like if you've

9:35

seen a hundred. James Bond movies confession

9:37

I've never seen a James Bond

9:39

movie my whole life but I

9:41

know he's a guy he's a spy

9:44

guy he's a spy guy so I'm like

9:46

but if you'd seen if you were not

9:48

me it's seen a lot of James Bond

9:50

movies like you have a certain thing and

9:52

if you were going to write a spy

9:54

guy you might be like okay this is

9:57

what they do this is how it's done

9:59

this is what they say, this is

10:01

what the world looks like, even though

10:03

you might say, oh, actually, I have

10:05

a completely different understanding of what it

10:07

means to spy or what it means

10:09

to work for one's government on working

10:11

against other governments, and because I have

10:13

a complicated feeling about how I relate

10:15

to the powers that be in my

10:17

own country or what have you. But I think

10:19

those are the things that are really

10:22

interesting, but I do want to just

10:24

call out that they are hard and

10:26

it is possible to... bump them to

10:28

bruise them to sometimes even crack them.

10:30

But I think that in testing things

10:32

in in testing ourselves, that's how we

10:35

strengthen our understanding of ourselves. And if

10:37

a lens gets cracked and then you

10:39

like polish it out or you figure

10:41

out the program that works through the

10:43

distortion you've discovered, you actually have a

10:46

stronger lens than you did before. Absolutely.

10:48

And just to build off of that a

10:50

little bit, you know, the reason I'm so

10:52

excited to be talking about our personal

10:54

metaphors of how we think about

10:56

writing and craft is, you know,

10:58

we started this year in our

11:00

first episode talking about intention, right,

11:03

and how important approaching your work

11:05

with intention is. And so as

11:07

you're talking about your lenses, yeah,

11:09

some get used more than others,

11:11

some are like reflexively at hand, right?

11:13

I've been doing it working on a

11:15

project recently, which has involved

11:17

me GMming a bunch of games pretty

11:20

quickly that are pretty short stories in

11:22

a row. And I... realize how much

11:24

I'm reaching for a couple repeated tropes

11:27

and themes, and you know, especially because

11:29

games are so improvisational,

11:31

you're moving so quickly, so it really

11:33

is so easy just to grab that

11:35

first lens, and now I need to

11:37

push myself to be like, okay, what

11:39

lenses are a little deeper, what lenses

11:41

are a little less out of reach

11:43

than I'm not using as much, they

11:45

might be a little dusty and could

11:47

use a little TLC before putting

11:50

them into rotation, but when you

11:52

think about... why we use certain

11:54

metaphors or why we approach

11:57

our craft through certain

11:59

processes. I think that allows

12:01

you to tap into a wider

12:03

range of these lenses than you

12:05

might on your own. Well, and I

12:07

want to make sure to point out as

12:09

well, you know, back to that idea

12:11

of cheating, bringing your

12:13

own perspective to something,

12:15

bringing your own lenses

12:18

and your own personal

12:20

experiences is what makes

12:22

the story relatable. In fact,

12:24

one ongoing true principle

12:26

is that the more specific you

12:28

can be the more general it

12:31

becomes, which doesn't sound like it's

12:33

true, but it's true. If I

12:35

am trying to describe, you know,

12:37

some kind of generic experience, that

12:40

won't be relatable to the

12:42

audience. Whereas if I describe

12:44

my own experience or bring

12:46

my own lens and my

12:49

own background to a

12:51

character's very personal experience,

12:53

then it does become instantly

12:55

more relatable to the

12:58

audience. I looked at, and

13:00

I'm not going to name

13:02

any names, but I looked

13:05

at a marketing page for

13:07

an AI writing tool with

13:09

before and after text. And

13:11

the before text was

13:14

simple workmanlike prose

13:16

that described how

13:18

a character felt about

13:20

the sunrise. And the AI

13:23

reworked text was much more

13:25

flowery. And as I read it

13:27

and reread it and reread it

13:29

to figure out what was wrong

13:31

with it, I realized the character

13:33

was now gone. Their perspective was

13:36

gone. It was no longer how

13:38

they felt about the sunrise. It

13:40

was words to describe color and

13:42

light and warmth and whatever, but

13:45

the character was now absent. And

13:47

so you say, you know, when

13:49

you get more specific, you get

13:51

more general. Yes, when you

13:54

get more specific, when you

13:56

tell us how one person

13:58

feels about a thing, The general

14:00

population can now feel that as

14:02

well, but if you take

14:04

generalized AI built on large

14:07

language models, you lose that

14:09

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14:11

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14:15

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14:22

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16:59

Specificity when I was doing puppetry

17:01

was the thing that we kept

17:03

coming back to over and over

17:06

again. There was, there's something called

17:08

head bobbing, which means that the

17:10

character's head moves with every single

17:12

syllable, and it stops having any

17:14

meaning at all. So you start

17:16

looking for that one specific movement

17:19

that underscores the thing that you're

17:21

trying to convey. And I think

17:23

this idea of specificity is not

17:25

just on the biggest level

17:27

of you specifically have

17:29

the ability to write

17:31

this, but what is the

17:34

specific story you're trying to

17:36

tell? What is the specific

17:38

goal that you're going for?

17:41

Who is the specific audience

17:43

that you're writing for? that

17:46

more people have access to

17:48

the story. Sometimes not the

17:50

end jokes, I'll grant that.

17:52

But speaking of specificity,

17:54

let's pause, specifically

17:57

now. I

18:00

have a question for all of you,

18:02

which is, how do you know what

18:04

your lenses are? I mean, we've kind

18:06

of talked as if, like, at hand,

18:08

we all have, like, a nice lens

18:10

catalog, but how do you, which I

18:13

do, but how do you actually figure

18:15

out what your lenses are and, like,

18:17

that you are bringing yourself versus the

18:19

things that you've experienced, the things you've

18:21

written, the things you've seen to the

18:23

table as a writer. Sorry,

18:25

you said what your lenses are,

18:27

and I'm reminded of the optometrist,

18:30

when he opened up, he had

18:32

his box from school, that's like

18:34

row and row after row of

18:37

brass-ringed lenses that are labeled, and

18:39

I realized I have never before

18:41

wanted something more that I don't

18:43

need than I want that right

18:45

now. It's just a big box

18:48

of lenses. Why? I don't know,

18:50

but I want it. And maybe

18:53

that's one of my lenses is

18:55

covetousness of brass. I mean, you're

18:57

not alone in that

18:59

one. See, specific in

19:02

general. I think that it

19:04

is actually something that you

19:06

have to think about because,

19:09

for those of you who

19:11

wear glasses, you forget

19:13

your brain tunes out the frame.

19:15

There's a frame and there's a

19:18

part of the world that your

19:20

peripheral vision that is fuzzy and

19:22

you forget that. You tune it

19:25

out until you start consciously thinking

19:27

about it. And I think that one

19:29

of the things that you have to

19:31

do as a writer potentially, if you

19:33

want to be aware of these lenses,

19:35

is to think about what are the

19:37

things that are important to me

19:40

and those things that are important

19:42

to you. are going to be

19:44

things that are linked to who

19:46

you are that are going to

19:48

be sometimes different than other people.

19:50

So, you know, is it important

19:52

to you? The sound of the

19:55

pros is that important to you?

19:57

Is the feeling important to you?

20:00

What are the things that annoy you?

20:02

I get really annoyed by head bobbing.

20:04

I can't watch certain actors because

20:06

I'm like, I know that you're

20:08

human, but don't move your head

20:10

like that. We've attributed a quote

20:13

to Socrates that the unexamined life

20:15

is not worth living. I'm not

20:17

going to say that anybody's

20:20

life is not worth living, but

20:22

I will say that the unexamined

20:24

life is a very difficult life

20:26

from which to write effectively. I

20:29

think you've just given

20:31

me a way to unlock one of

20:33

the Aaron's question. A previous

20:36

season I talked about the

20:38

axes of power and that

20:40

this was a thing that

20:42

we do with characters to

20:44

figure out age and all of

20:46

those things. All of those are

20:49

part of your lens. So

20:51

if you actually take that

20:53

casting worksheet and you filled

20:55

it out for yourself. Those are

20:57

all things that affect the way you move

20:59

through the world. Yeah, I mean, my glib

21:02

answer to Aaron's question is therapy, right?

21:04

Yeah. You know, like, and whether or

21:06

not you participate in Western therapy or

21:08

psychoan analysis or whatever it

21:10

is, the important thing is the

21:13

introspection. The important thing is the

21:15

self-examination, right? And there's a lot

21:17

of ways to get there. There's

21:19

a lot of tools for that. I mean,

21:21

therapy is one that helped me very much.

21:24

It can be just finding times

21:26

to sit and reflect. It can

21:28

be journaling. It can be meditation.

21:30

But what I encourage you to

21:32

do as writers is to take

21:35

time to understand yourself, to understand

21:37

your own story, to understand the

21:39

things that may do who you

21:41

are and the things that trouble

21:43

you on a day-to-day basis. What

21:46

are the things that make your life

21:48

hard for whatever reason? And what

21:50

are the things that bring you

21:52

joy? Understanding. helps you create

21:55

art, right? Because the more you understand

21:58

yourself, I think the clear or

22:00

you have an approach to making the

22:02

art that you want to be making?

22:04

Well, and therapy is such a

22:06

good metaphor to bring into this,

22:09

because you can do the same

22:11

thing with your writing that you

22:13

do with your own brain. And in

22:15

fact, the writing is just an

22:17

extra step in that process. If

22:19

you take the time to look

22:21

at things you've written, snippets

22:23

that have never gone anywhere

22:26

or unfinished or even completely

22:28

finished and try to figure

22:30

out, well, what sort of

22:33

lenses are in here? What kind

22:35

of person produced this? You

22:37

have to step back away

22:39

from yourself a little bit,

22:41

similar to how you would

22:43

do that in Western therapy,

22:45

as mentioned, and kind of

22:47

analyze your own brain through

22:50

your writing. Yeah, I agree.

22:52

I was thinking the very same thing,

22:54

which is that, like, when you read

22:56

your writing back sometimes, especially writing that

22:58

you've written in a specific era, you

23:01

can be like, all the things I

23:03

wrote this year, or three years ago,

23:05

sometimes you'll find themes that you'd be

23:08

like, oh, I didn't see that at

23:10

the time, but seems like I was

23:12

working through something. And here's where you

23:14

can see I no longer cared about

23:17

that, just because it's coming through. Or

23:19

maybe it's just me, but like, I

23:21

think it's like, you know, it's not

23:24

just you, but I don't think

23:26

it's everybody. But it's like

23:28

sometimes you're in people go

23:30

to therapy, but also like

23:32

any, if you've ever read

23:34

like your Sun sign and

23:36

been like, yes, that is

23:38

the Scorpio and me for

23:40

real. Like that is introspection,

23:42

like this part of a

23:44

specific lens, which Astrology is,

23:47

if nothing else, a lens

23:49

on personhood. Same as like

23:51

if you like anyogram or

23:53

the Myers Briggs or Buzzfeed

23:55

quizzes. If at the end you're like,

23:57

I'm not a Reese Witherspoon, I'm in

23:59

fact... you know, whatever, some other celebrity,

24:01

then you've learned something about yourself. And

24:03

I think a lot of times we

24:05

think of that as very separate from

24:07

our writing, but you can use that

24:09

to figure out what your lenses are,

24:11

and then how does that come through in

24:14

the way you express yourself in your writing?

24:16

As the quote from one of my freshman

24:18

writing classes, I don't remember who said it, but

24:20

we said it all the time after we'd heard

24:22

it once, how do I know what I think

24:24

until I see what I see what I see

24:26

what I see what I say what I say? No, seriously,

24:29

until I've read what I've

24:31

written, I don't really know what

24:33

I think, because at the time I

24:35

was writing it, I was thinking about

24:37

the words, as much as I was

24:39

thinking about the thoughts, as much as

24:41

I was thinking about the thought,

24:43

and reading the words, I can now

24:46

see the thought more clearly. Well, it's

24:48

one of the joys you're doing

24:50

this podcast or teaching for

24:52

writing excuses generally, is that,

24:54

you know, a lot of times, I'll

24:57

be like... What's the thing I

24:59

don't understand? What's the thing I'm

25:01

struggling with? What's the thing that I've

25:03

been like, oh, I need to take into

25:05

that more, and then in having to come

25:07

up with the curriculum or in talking

25:09

about it on the podcast, I will

25:11

find the thought that's in there. I'll

25:14

find the perspective that I have. I

25:16

almost wish we had video of this

25:18

session because to my eye, there

25:20

have been three epiphanies in this room

25:23

during this session. And that would be

25:25

fun for other people to watch. I

25:27

do the same thing with the classes,

25:29

and I always hate myself at

25:32

some point in that process. Because I

25:34

think they'll ask, what do you

25:36

want to teach on the cruise

25:38

this year? And I'm like, that's

25:40

months away. By the time we

25:42

get there. I'll have a much better

25:44

handle on characterization. So I'm going to

25:46

teach a characterization class. And then the

25:48

time arrives and I'm like, nope, I

25:50

have not done any introspection or learning.

25:52

It is time to make that happen.

25:55

I still don't understand the thing that

25:57

I picked because I didn't understand it.

25:59

Damn it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And this

26:01

is actually a really good way, I

26:03

think, to understand where your own personal

26:05

strengths are. And you don't have to

26:07

have like a formal class. If you

26:09

have been listening to the podcast and

26:11

you're like, ah, I think I finally

26:14

understand this, find a friend and explain

26:16

it to them. And if you cannot

26:18

explain it to them, you don't actually

26:20

understand it yet. On the other

26:22

hand, if we start talking about

26:24

a topic and you're like, I

26:26

got that already. That may be

26:28

something that you have a strengthen

26:30

that you have not previously recognized.

26:33

So that brings us, of course,

26:35

to homework, because would it

26:37

be writing excuses if we did

26:40

not give you homework? What I

26:42

want you to do is I

26:45

want you to do some interspection.

26:47

I want you to think about

26:49

what lenses from your non-writing life

26:52

shape the way you see things. Poppetree

26:54

shapes mine, woodworking shapes dung

26:57

wands, gaming shapes a lot

26:59

of us. So what are the

27:01

lenses from your non-writing life that

27:03

shape the way you see things?

27:06

This has been writing excuses.

27:08

You're out of excuses.

27:10

Now go right. Writing excuses

27:12

has been brought to you

27:15

by our listeners' patrons and

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friends. For this episode, your

27:19

hosts were Mary Robinette Cowall,

27:21

Dong Wan Song, Aaron Roberts,

27:23

Dan Wells, and Howard Taylor.

27:25

This episode was engineered by

27:27

Marshall Carr Jr., mastered by

27:29

Alex Jackson, and produced by

27:32

Emma Reynolds. For more information,

27:34

visit Writing excuses.com. Professional

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